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You Could Be Friends!

cheater_just_friendsOne submission that I get over and over again for “Stupid Shit Cheaters Say” is the cheater insists — you know, you’d really like the affair partner! You’re a lot alike! You could be friends!

The betrayed person is absolutely gobsmacked by this (clearly, or they wouldn’t submit such nonsense to be immortalized in cartoon form at Chump Lady).

Which got me thinking — why is this? Why does the cheater think that gee, if you only knew their fuckbuddy, you’d love them too? Sometimes the cheater is lucid enough to add the caveat “under different circumstances…” But usually not. Usually, it’s some “sister wives” or queen bee fantasy. Everyone united around the centrality of awesomeness that is the cheater.

Let me posit some theories on why a cheater would say something so patently moronic.

1. All kibbles are good kibbles. It’s a pretty good look inside their wee, narcissistic noggins that they view you and the fuckbuddy in the same light. You like me! They like me! You both like ME! You have so much in common! Namely, ME! It’s all just kibbles to the cheater. You’re a kibble source, they’re a kibble source. You’re interchangeable really. And if either of you stops being a source, another source can be found.

2. They’re good because I said so. If the fuck buddy is a bad person, then that reflects badly on the cheater. So let’s say they are a good person! A charming, benign kibble source. You’d like them, because you’re alike! (That was a compliment from your cheater, did you miss that?) Cheaters think they deserve only special people because they’re so special themselves. To say you’re a lot like the fuckbuddy is their weird way of telling you, hey, you’re one of the lucky chosen few, and don’t you want to keep your special place? (Cue the humiliating dance of “pick me.”)

3. The cheater is not very original. It may be in a very superficial way, you are similar to the fuck buddy. You both have big tits, or you’re both brunettes, or both had the same college major. The cheater may have a type. You’re being very narrow minded dwelling on the fact that you don’t share a penchant for fucking married people.

4. Us all being friends would be very ideal for cake eating. Until D-Day, apparently this fuck buddy wasn’t someone that they were going to introduce you to. But now that you’re aware of their existence, hey, let’s just all be friends. Wouldn’t that be great? Don’t consider this person a threat — nah, they’re someone — if you just took the time to know them better — that could be a friend. The problem isn’t that the cheater is cheating on you — the problem is that you’re just looking at it all wrong.

Hope that explains it, chumps.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Wow, CL, this brings back memories!

    My boyfriend tried to get me to meet the other woman and learn how to make goat cheese with her – she has a farm. At the time I didn’t know they were having an affair. I knew they were friends but since she called him all the time to discuss her ex and their extremely fucked up custody battle, I thought she was a bit of wing nut and declined to accompany him.

    After the affair came to light, he complained that I “never wanted to do things with him”. He mentioned the goat cheese incident and said that my “not being there” helped sway him towards her. I actually bought this crap and thought to myself “maybe I should have gone with him and and learned to make goat cheese and then he wouldn’t have hooked up with her”!!!

    Luckily, after three years of trickle truth, I learned that the affair was in full progress when he asked me to meet her so now I’m sooooo glad I didn’t go. But the fact that he wanted me to meet his affair partner and learn to make goat cheese with her! WTF!!! That is so screwed up…

    • Oh, how fun that would have been for you, too, Cheezehater, the three of you, making cheese, and the two of them all smug and in on a big effing secret, making goo-goo eyes at each other, and you thinking that he and YOU were the couple.

      I’m SO glad you didn’t fall for that narcissistic cruelty.

      • Good point, Steph.

        What was going on with that? Meet the affair partner, wtf.

        Maybe they got some kind of perverted thrill out of their little secret.

        I know the OW in my STBX’s affair had a prior affair in which she as effing her best friends husband, and that husband was her husband’s best buddy. Their kids played together, too.

        She ruined that marriage, too by exposure, but just like my ex the affair partner at that time also dumped her cheating lying butt like a dirt covered hot potato.

    • The Goat Cheese Incident.

      I LOVE this story! I’m sorry, I love it in a sick, cheater-theatre-of-the-absurd kind of way. If only I had properly embraced the art of goat cheese… oh yes, that was the problem. The things we chumps tell ourselves.

      And wow, btw, he sounds like a total douchebag.

    • My X brought his bimbo to his parents wakes and funerals as his “secret date” while we were still married. I was the dumbass wife mourning two wonderful people, and they were making goo goo eyes over the casket. Hate them for that one, especially.

  • after all my years if being an of experience being an idiot/chump about the best advice i can think of is to tell the cheater/abuser something like ” YOU ARE A TWO BIT PIECE OF SHIT AND DONT FUCKING BOTHER ME “. end of conversation. ..this goes for all cheaters/abusers and all their ilk
    this might need to be repeated a few times or a few hundred times..sooner or later,like a child with a broken toy they will get bored with you and move on.
    i wish that i had done something like this much earlier

  • My ex wanted us to “be friends” because it would have allowed him to skip the part where he’s a foolish prick for walking out on his family for an alcoholic homewrecker. See? If we were all friends, then he could hold his head up in public and be all, “Well, it all worked out, you see, we’re all friends. Stephanie is totally fine with all of it, in fact, she has a new friend! It’s all amicable. It’s a win-win-win-win. And I’m the central winner. Because I am so clever and I know what is best for everyone and that’s why I just do as I please, because it all works out.”

    But, as it stands, I have lots and lots of lovely real friends who are not parasitic back-stabber “friends”, so I declined his offer.

    Sucks to suck, as my kids say.

    • Oh yeah, the “I am so clever I know what is best for everyone and that’s why I just do as I please, because it all works out.”

      I think I could do a post on that mindset alone. You figure out the mindfuck, leave, reinvent, put your life back together — and when you succeed at that, the idiot cheater wants CREDIT? For it all working out for the BEST?

      In what world is that right? Yes, leaving a cheater IS for the best. But just because you succeed without them doesn’t make infidelity okay, or necessary. Ugh.

  • Oh, Chump Lady! I love your blog! It has given me a whole new vocabulary! Like “shit sandwich” for example.

    Also, you are doing such a good job, for me, at least, of helping to shine a light on all the corners full of forgotten mind fucks. I’m finding them again, and looking at them in a whole new way and tossing them out once and for good. Not keeping them and feeling guilty about it.

    Uh, like miss Cheezehater’s story, for example. My ex had invited me to go to Hawaii with him (half-heartedly, and last minute, when he knew I had to work and had three kids to take care of). The truth is, he was going to Hawaii to hook up with the OW, and he had NO intention of me going. And still, I’ve felt guilty about not going with him. “Maybe if I’d gone with him, I could have averted the affair….”

    No–no, I couldn’t have.

    I’ve even thought, “Maybe if I weren’t such a bitter and vindictive middle-aged woman, we could have all been friends, and that would have been best for everyone.”

    Oh! That sort of marries two of your points, then.

    If we were all friends, Chump Lady, it would be best, you know, For The Children.

    I call Bull Shit. What’s best for the children is to have two fully committed parents who want to parent and be married and be a family together, who have the emotional maturity to stick around through the tough times so we can revel in the awesome times. And, boy, has my ex missed out on some awesome times. It’s not right to teach children that they can just wander off any time they damned well please to spend family time and money and other resources on a parasite who might be spreading disease. There are consequences for lying, cheating, stealing. It’s best that my kids know it. I’d hate for them to think it’d be cool at any point to do to their families what their father did to theirs.

    *sigh*

    THANK you, Chump Lady! You are helping people! You’re like, Saint Chump Lady!

    • Thank you Stephanie for the very kind words. I’m so glad the site helps you. I’m not a saint though — I’m very far from perfect — I’m a chump! 🙂 I couldn’t have written this blog if I didn’t do a lot of things wrong first.

  • From November 2012 CL, PLEASE DECODE THIS……

    Mike wrote:
    “Leah really is a wonderful person (that’s got to be falling on deaf ears), and as you’ve mentioned previously, under radically different circumstances you would enjoy her company I’m sure.”

    CL says: Delusional. The Universal Bullshit Translator has no words.

    Seriously, can’t believe I haven’t exactly internalized this….. are they, all of them, really THAT predictable? There was a “dinner” that Mike said was casual and all, Leah was just “throwing some steaks on the grill” and I said, then why the fuck am I driving out to your house? Mike, that’s a DATE!! But, Leah had invited me too, well, sort of, I’d offered to make dinner for us, driving out to his fucking house, like I did forever, and it was, after all, a friday, but, you know, he didn’t have a “preference” as to how he actually got dinner….. I knew something was up – I almost left him that night – he kinda chased my car down the driveway and, in a kind of funny way as he wasn’t actually home when I got there and so I turned around to fucking leave – but then he drove up and refused to let me leave and then told me I was being inconsiderate of his feelings because I said I didn’t trust all this shit – and he said he felt bad because I wasn’t all hunky dorey about Leah throwing some steaks on the grill…… WTF. I knew, I KNEW!! But, actually, I DID trust him…. mindfuck shit sandwich.

    It still makes me crazy. All these discrete incidents make total sense only after the whole picture comes out. God, I feel like such a fool. 60 days NC today. I just wish it was 6 months from now. I think I’ll clean my bedroom closet.

    • Snort! Yeah, RADICALLY different circumstances, like, she’s not a back-stabbing whore who has no respect for others. Like, if she had any of the same values you have. Like, if your boyfriend wasn’t screwing someone else.

      Leah invited, you, too! Why, isn’t she so generous! She’s going to feed you steak, and then screw your boyfriend. What a whore. Both of them.

      Hah! He feels bad because of something YOU’RE doing! Hah!

      • makes me crazy still! I’m sure I can find all kinds of nooks and crannies in my house that I can scrub with bleach and ammonia – good times! “RADICALLY different circumstances”….. I still can’t believe he wrote that email as “Some closure, hopefully” and probably like actually REVIEWED it several hundred times before sending it on to me at 3 AM – I’m sure he thought it was poetic and prose-ish. Like watching himself admiringly in a mirror as he masterbates – he’s such a sensitive thinker and writer…. only jewels come out….. of his mouth of course.

        Now, where did I put the ammonia…….

        • Maybe for fun you could provoke him to write more things for us to enjoy. He’s an idiot, and it’s entertaining to read what he thinks is brilliant prose.

          • true that – alas, I wish I was capable of setting him up like that, for the sake of entertainment – the good news is…. I don’t think I could – but, I did post it on the internet (does that count?) – I am at least capable of drawing some personal ethical boundaries, I had to grow the hell up to get here, but, I know he thinks he’s good at that shit – writing and all, being sensitive and an all around “normal/good” guy – the fact notwithstanding that it was pathologically narcy –

  • Better a fool than a scumbag. Feeling like a fool will pass, as I know from experience, but they are something else. I remember similar faint blips on my radar about different women and how it was important for him to have friends. Didn’t I remember encouraging him? No, I bloody didn’t!
    That type of Ego just wants to relegate you further and further down the cast list in the film about their life: “Me, Me, Me”.
    What’s scary is that I thought he was EVER worth it.

    • Ah!! My cheater said the same thing!! Didn’t I remember telling him to get a girlfriend? He was really surprised when I said I don’t remember saying anything of that sort.

  • I think, given enough time, I can reach levels of contempt I would never have thought possible….. on the journey to “meh” of course.

  • Yeah, Sonnet, better a fool than a scumbag. That is essentially what I told my ex on his way out the door.

    No matter what, wherever he goes, he’s always a coward. That would suck. My mistake was in having faith in a coward.

  • Yes, Stephanie, a pathetic mix of cowardice and bullying. Step away!

    I even had a dream when I had to walk past him and, although, I tried not to say anything “scumbag” came out! Never a truer word. I think we don’t give ourselves credit for getting through that brain freeze.

    • “Scumbag” was once one of my ex’s favorite words to describe people lesser than him. And when I used it to point out what he had become, he and his scumbag “girlfriend,” oh, did he get angry. Because he knows what that word means, and he knows it applies.

      Gentlewomen CAN insult him. He is insultable.

  • My X was a great insulter who always seemed to get away with things – I was the “nice” person who was careful how she spoke. Bollocks to that now!

    The irony is that he used to be so anti infidelity. Big show. He was always insisting that I would be unfaithful first. So. Not. Worth. Being. With. Him.

    I feel I’m on that road to “Meh”.

    • “…he used to be so anti infidelity. Big show. He was always insisting that I would be unfaithful first.”

      Mine, too.

      BIG RED FLAG that was waving in front of my face that I refused to believe.

    • Agree with Stephanie. Huge red flag. Pure projection. These people are such nitwits. Really.

      Of course, *snort* there are those cheaters who say they can be anti-infidelity and still cheat. Because of course their affair is different. It isn’t REALLY cheating if the marriage was so crap and the BS sucked so much. LOL Rationalization and Justification are boon companions for those sorts of asses.

    • Sonnet, Shirley Glass in her book “Not just Friends” talks about how cheaters always herald their cheating by making statements like the one you mentioned.

      They either accuse the faithful spouse of cheating despite having no evidence or reason, and they constantly say without being asked or being in a conversation about infidelity, that: “I would never cheat on you,”

      My Asshat cheater said “I would never cheat on you” as he was walking out the door for a date with his co-cheating girlfriend.

      Scumbag is not a strong enough insult for cheaters, IMO.

      • I got accused of cheating during his affair — how do I know *you* are not cheating on me? (I threw a watch at his head.) And I’m told that’s what he tells people about why his third marriage (ours) failed — I cheated on him. That’s what he told me happened with wives one and two. (Talked to them… and guess what? he was a serial cheater with them too.)

        It’s just what these freaks do. There is no making sense of it.

        • OMG – Mike was always talking about how his ex cheated…. Some cop – I never even put those details together….. went on and on about it. Wow, that makes sense. And he always said that essentially he gave her a pass for it and let the whole marriage start “fresh” – my ass…….

      • Thanks – I’ll look up the book. I used to say that it was his projection but he was Teflon man.
        I know that “Scumbag” isn’t really strong enough but, at the beginning of the end, I felt that it was criminal to do what he did. I think it gave him an ego extension especially when he was still protesting his innocence and asking for more time. I’m now veering towards “prat”. Eventually, “meh” or “yuk”.

  • *raises hand*

    Add me to the mix. STBX said to me, during the charming (though at least, mercifully brief) period of TT that he thought “we could be friends.” He at least had the presence of mind to qualify that statement by saying something like “under other circumstances.” My immediate retort was that we would never, ever be friends because I could never be friends with someone who behaved the way she did (and that goes for STBX as well).

    It’s so ridiculous– they do something so low and heinous, and yet they still try to find ways to feel good about their decision and to preserve the “I’m a nice guy/gal, really!” facade. Suggesting that we could friends with their APs sounds so completely out to lunch to anyone who has even a small streak of decency. Heck, I cut people out of my life when they are awful toward my family or friends– I can’t imagine staying friends with those offenders, let alone cultivating any sort of friendly relationship with the warm body who helped to end my M!

    • It is all somehow mixed up with the idea of “intent” – CL talks about this….. that because they didn’t “intend” to hurt you or they weren’t “looking” for it (Mike’s big thing, it just “happened” he wasn’t “looking” which he apparently discussed with everyone but me at the time….) that somehow negates the effects – lack of intent is somehow supposed to neutralize the pain the betrayed person feels – the last time I actually saw him it was like some kind of weird competition, I felt sick and he felt sorry for himself – his big thing was I couldn’t possibly feel as bad as he did. On some level I made things easy for him…… I just let go – lots of crocodile tears – all lies…….

      You know, all countries’ uniform codes of justice provide for the swift and harsh punishment of traitors…… life in prison or, execution – like all over the planet – my understanding is that actual “damage” is not a consideration…. just the act itself is enough. Its so primal. I’m being dramatic here, but, I think I sort of get that in a way I didn’t before – the only appropriate response is an absolute smack down, period. Its one of those crimes where there are no mitigating factors – its not like where the issue of intent means the difference between murder and manslaughter…….. in terms of sentence….

      Just thinking……. waxing rhapsodic….. still working on “meh”

  • Okay, I don’t have a personal anecdote about this. My ex never suggested I could be friends with the woman. It was just not something that came up.

    I do know of several cases of this happening in various forms. The first was my ex In laws. My FIL had an affair with a woman who was masquerading as my MIL’s best friend. She’d sort of come out of nowhere and latched on to my MIL but was really just dodgy dodgerson. My ex and I (we were just married and had our son at this time) knew there was something just off about her. And she was really just nasty to me, oddly enough. Probably because I obviously had no time for her fakery, even though my MIL loved her. At any rate, his FIL, before the affair was exposed, sat my ex and I down and gave us a talking to (because we’d forbidden this woman to be around our son, so if she was going to be visiting the MIL, then my son was not allowed to be there). Anyway, the FIL said: “You really have to get to know her, she’s a great person, she’s really very nice. She’s so good to your mother…” Well… um. Not really. Of course they are European, which means my MIL didn’t leave him when she found out, though the affair evidently ended. MIL said: “In Europe, we think about affairs differently…” I don’t know, maybe that’s true, but I know plenty of residents of the UK who do not turn a blind eye to affairs. Maybe she means the French and other continentals. LOL 🙂

    The other anecdote is about one of my BS friends (the same one who threatened suicide to keep him in place). At her lowest she contacted the other woman and talked to her (though everyone was advising her against it, because she was not doing herself any favors) and at one point, when the other woman said: “his behavior in all this has totally put me off him, you should consider the affair over from my side.” my friend said to her: “You know, what if we both dumped him. And then we could become best friends. Wouldn’t that be totally funny??” Obviously she was really wrecked, and not thinking clearly and we essentially sat on her any time she wanted to contact the other woman again. But it was one of those moments, probably akin to what Stephanie was saying above about thinking: Maybe I am just too bitter and should be friends for the sake of the common good…

    But, and here is my unpopular POV again, but I’m going to stick to it: If a cheater says: “The affair partner reminds me of you…” it may actually be true on some weird fundamental (maybe even unconscious) level. Of course that has to do with the cheater projecting, first and foremost. Because he or she found something attractive there. But deeper still, if most cheaters rely on partners who are willing to spackle then it is logical that the cheater is going to seek out another spackler with whom to have an affair.

    The BS may be the most beautiful or handsome, hardworking, well put together, highly professional, spackler and the other person may be a snaggle-toothed, ugly, hairless or hairy, overweight, high-school dropout, on the dole spackler. Of cousre on the surface they couldn’t be more different, no one would say they were anything remotely similar but the spackler bit — that’s the part that the cheater latches onto and that feels familiar to him or her. That’s why, I would argue, they say such stupid things like: “I think you guys would get along great if you met and didn’t have this matter of the affair going on.”

    Or not. But it makes sense to me.

    • Good point, Kristina. One way the cheater sees us and the fuck buddies as similar is we’re all chumps. We all have fallen for their bullshit to some degree or another.

  • Hey CL – like this is all you have to do 😉 – how about a new cartoon that addresses all the special nuance of “You would really like her if the circumstances were radically different”

    • I need to get to my studio and draw, Erika. I’m woefully behind on my cartoons. I intended to do a new one for this post and recycled, but I will get something up there soon in the “you’d really like her” vein. It’s the holidays and I’m catching up.

  • Seriously tho CL

    The more I learn from your blog and from all the brave and amazing chumps-in-healing that comment here, that last email Mike wrote was almost like the cheater’s all around “best of” the dumbest shit they say and think. In one fell swoop. And he was stupid enough to actually put it in writing!! It was like a recipe. Never put things in writing unless you plan to lose complete control of them. It seems, the more I learn, its just proof of everything you say, its a great example of how screwed up and completely non-sensical their thinking gets. Complete upside down morality, thinking that he was being kind when it was actually so gratuitously cruel and completely unnecessary. Its taken me a while to wrap my brain around that – that we were no longer operating in the same moral dimension. Because, I have to admit, like someone commented on it back when, my first reaction was to mine it for how he still felt about me. God, cheaters really are that predictable. I’ve come a long way from that.

    I’m in awe of what you’ve done here – tell me this blog is rewarding for you and you’re not thinking….. “God, she should just move on”…… I’m working on it, I really am. You have done a tremendous thing here!

    Now get into that studio and DRAW!

    • Oh… you mean like when my STBX wrote this to me (when I mentioned how I hoped he would have more sense than to thrust the OW into our children’s lives at this point in time):

      “OW and I are going to take things slow.”

      *palm smack to forehead*

      I think it’s too late for that, idiot.

      • Since we’re talking about cartoons and how you should spend your time….. what about the ole’ cheater stand-bys:
        “I wasn’t looking for anything, it just happened”
        and
        “I never meant to hurt you”

        I know, kinda dull but definite classics –

        • Ugh!!! I got the “It just happened!” line too.. I mean he was such a good guy, he was only trying to be a friend to her while she went through her nasty divorce from her terrible ex-husband.. And things “just happened”! He got in too deep before he realized it was too late. Yeah three years? I wanted to believe the best if him at first and thought he got sucked into something.. But guess what? A shit sandwich is a shit sandwich no matter how they try to sell it as otherwise. Among many other classics: ” She’s (OW) a good person, she feels bad about carrying on in the affair because she doesn’t want to hurt you.”

          “She’s just a really good friend, we can talk about anything!”

          While during the pick me dance I tried to understand what he was going through… I asked what was so damn special about this “relationship”.. I received a lot of I don’t knows but upon serious pressing he responded with: “Well we have a lot in common! We both love college football and basketball (she is a Michigan State alum, he is a die hard Notre Damer–not alum), we like the same kinds of cars, we both decorate the same, we want to travel to the same places, etc.. ”
          Yes, you can build a solid relationship w someone based on dishonesty, mistrust, lies, deceit, and unfaithfulness as long as you have these very important building blocks of surface common interests together.
          Mind you, I am a person with varied interests, goals, hobbies, and sports.. Including NCAA sports football and bball included. But it does not matter cheaters will sell their story any which way they can so they will not be held accountable…
          Another classic??
          “You know I love you!! I mean I never left you! If I did not love you I would have left, but I never did!!!” Just give me another chance! Please Rose, let me prove it to you!!”

          So many stupid phrases that I should write a book.
          Such a selfish prick.

          • It ain’t your spouse’s job to be a friend to anyone of the opposite sex and help them through ANYTHING.. Their job is to help YOU. And family.. Some partner poaching skank? Fuck no. Whether he or she started the affair or not isn’t the point. His job was to say no right from the start. Shut that shit down.
            Don’t fall prey to that line of bullshit fellow chumpers!

        • Bottom line?? If an outsider isn’t a friend of the marriage, they ain’t no friend at all.. If the person inside the marriage doesn’t respect the boundaries or you, their spouse?? Cut your losses and respect and love yourself.. Don’t be anybody’s doormat, ESPif you have children. Set the example for your kids that as you deserve only the best, so do they.. It is better to be happy and healthy alone than miserable and sick with a person diminishes you so much that eventually you stop recognizing the beautiful person you are. Get whatever help you need to get away from a cheater! They are abusive, lifesucking brutes that will continue to do just that if you enable them. Stay strong fellow chumps!

  • That’s a whole other column. My best friend just found out that her teenaged sons have been introduced to the OW. They’d indicated they weren’t interested in meeting her, but Narcy-Boy just HAD to bring her along to the Christmas celebration at his family’s home. My poor friend was ill over it.

    I’m waiting for the day that my ex’s twat gets to spend time with my children. It’s bad enough the kids spend time with the cheater. It will be breathtaking when I find that they’re spending time with the alienator homewrecker who felt no compunction toward poisoning my family.

    Ergh!

    I guess they’re taking things slow.

    • STBX and OW got to watch my kids open the majority of their christmas gifts and they’ll be spending new years eve with my kids. It sucks but, to be honest, OW is jumping through hoops to prove how great she is to the inlaws and I remember going through that as well…something about them makes you run around trying to show them how great you are. Well, her problem now and I hope she enjoyed xmas because it won’t be happening next year.

  • Just watching catchup TV: “Tamara Drewe”. Have you seen it? Based on a cartoon by Posy Simmonds. It reminded me of a few of our situations. There’s a sort of happy ending!

  • When STBX revealed that he and OW were more than friends and were having a relationship, he decided that this was now the time to have a talk about and improve OUR relationship. He said “We are taking our relationship to a new level. And I hope some day, when you are with someone else, all of us can be friends together.”

    Yeah, you wait here – I’ll go down to the bar and try to pick someone up so we can all get tickets to the ballgame.

    Asshat.

    • “a whole new level?”

      Really? That’s hilarious. Were you married to a bad high school football coach? Tom Cruise? Donald Trump? Who talks like this about their marriage?

      There’s a “Studit Sh*t Cheaters Say” cartoon in there, I think.

      • Who talks like this? Someone who doesn’t want to feel any guilt. Someone who wants me to get over this already. We’ll get along better than ever and we won’t have to bother with that pesky committed-to-each-other-in-marriage part of it. The “whole new level”, I believe is the one called “beyond marriage.” LOL

  • STBX also pulled the ‘friends’ thing on me. He said things like ‘she’s a really nice girl and I think, in a year or so, when hurt feelings die, you two will be friends’. I was just ‘are you fucking kidding me? Number one, she’s young enough to be my daughter. Number two, she was fucking my husband behind my back and doesn’t seem to give a shit. Number three, I don’t even like you anymore, why would I like someone you’re with?’

    He also told me about the various other OW that they are all ‘really nice people and I’d like them’. Well, no, probably not.

    In really is amazing the shit they think and say.

  • What is it with the OW all being “really nice people.”

    Are the cheaters shocked that anyone who seems “nice” would befriend them? Nice = smiles at me and doesn’t have an opinion and does whatever I like.

    Or, do they need to convince others that they would never cheat with a scumbag, therefore anyone they cheat with is “nice.”

    “She’s nice to me.” I heard that a lot in the aftermath of the bomb drop. “She’s really nice.” And, “We could be friends, like [another woman he was in love with]’s [divorced] parents.” As in, I don’t give a shit about the fact that she’s fucking your husband and taking time away from our kids, because, she is nice.

    Except she is NOT nice. She’s the opposite of nice. She is cruel and destructive. And some day, buddy, won’t you be shocked at how stupid you’ve been?

    Whatever, their BS meters are way off and I guess they think ours are, too. Well, I guess they did fool us for a while, so why not?

    • ‘She’s nice to me’. Yes, I heard that as well. And that I wasn’t nice to him. And that all he needs is for people to be nice to him. Well, it’s hard to be nice when I found out about his many cheating episodes. It’s nfuckingreal what these idiots spout out.

      I don’t know if OW is nice or not. She seems nice to my kids, which I know I’m supposed to be happy about…and I’m trying.

      But nice people don’t fuck other people’s husbands, they don’t wilfully hurt kids, they don’t send shots of their private bits to a married man’s home.

      • At least after the first affair the ex admitted that it’s WAY easier to be nice to him if you never have to spend more than a couple of hours w/him!!

  • Oh, wait, I channeled the cheater as I was drying my hair.

    “She is so nice and I was dazzled by the attention. I need a lot of attention, donchaknow. I’m so happy for me. She’s nice. I get off on infatuation. I’m willing to spread it around. Oh! I know! If you like her, too, then we can all be happy for me! Let’s be happy for me! She’s nice! My plan is that you will like her! I’m the center of attention and everyone is happy with me!”

    • Yes, that’s pretty much it in a nutshell. She tells him how great he is (she actually told me how charming he is….yuck), how handsome, how wonderful, and he basks in it, throwing her some of the same to keep her focused on him. This year she didn’t do Christmas with her family, she did it with his. Why? Because that’s the way he wants it, just as he wanted it with me. All about him, his family, his world. Poor thing, she’s young and boy is she going to get fucked up in the end.

      Serial cheats don’t change and today I kind of hate them. I’ll get over it. Holidays suck this year. Next year it will hopefully be easier.

      • Mike was always telling me “how ‘sweet'” she is – so sweet she did this and so sweet she did that – then “sweet” became “really sweet” like when she was actually at his house for dinner one night when I couldn’t get out there……. and of course, totally victimized by all her bad relationships, bad bad men who called her terrible names for no reason ever – just came out of them like poison – she is, after all, just so “sweet”, sensitive, and apparently likes to tell her neighbors about the size of the various guys’ dicks she slept with lately – great conversation – at least 3 that I know of this year, well, I guess Mike makes 4 – good times! I grew out of that kind of sleeping around thing, I dunno, in my early, EARLY 20’s – guess its more difficult when you can’t close your legs, even if you are over 50.

        God, could I have been that stupid!. Holidays sucked this year, my life feels like a prison – enough self-pity, yes, holidays will definitely be better next year – we’re making plans for a big family get together in D.C. – been many years since we all did that.

  • I had the great good fortune of knowing the OW from the start. Not only did we entertain she and her (still) husband but my idiot stbxh thought it a great idea to make OW our teenage daughter’s mentor. Their affair had been going on for five years on d-day (although the five year mark was the anniversary of them banging – god knows how long the emotional affair had been going on).

    When I learned of the affair, one of my oft repeated wounded declarations was ” I hate her”. Imagine how floored I was the day stbxh said that the OW was so sad that I hated her.

    So, in the words of our beloved CL, WTFever!

    • I can top that. Final OW was ‘very, very angry’ that I told her partner about the affair. She felt it was wrong of me to get in the middle of her relationship. I pointed out that perhaps it was wrong of her to fuck my husband, the father of my children. She didn’t respond to that.

      • This is what is so crazymaking about dealing with cheaters. It is as if they live in an alternate univers, bizzaro world or something, as it relates to rationality and logic. I mean the stuff they say is mind boggling. You cannot amke this stuff up.
        But, the really frustrating part is that they are so incredibly messed up they cannot step back and see the absurdity of what they say or the postions they take.
        The classic one is the indignation over the invasion of their privacy during the Bs’s investigation. The temerity to object to being scrutinized whan one is , actually, cheating , is just impossible to understand. Same with anger over disclosure etc.
        This is why I think cheaters, for the most part, are disordered. They cannot really think rationally about lots of things. The infidelity is ,often, just the tip of the iceberg and if you really stop to examine how they conduct themselves in other areas, you will probably see that they lie and cheat all over the place.

        • He also went nuts when I sent an email to a couple of his hobags from the past, letting them know I had found out about their involvement with my husband. He was very upset because this embarrassed him, mainly because I told them he had found yet another hook up and they were just one in a long line of many. Guess they didn’t feel quite so special anymore and he looked like the cheating dickhead he is. I still don’t regret doing that one bit.

    • OMG, Paula,

      I can relate entirely. I also knew OW from almost the start. My STBX is a professional musician and she, a singer. He would go sit in with her and her brothers who had a band together. I would go out to hear them all play. I met her, her husband, her two young children. She was also a math tutor, who (our of the goodness of her heart) gave free tutoring to our teenage daughter.

      So I had the mistaken assumption that we were all friends (or at least friendly professional acquaintences.)

      It was a betrayal several times over. Of me, of my daughter, of OW’s husband.

      And, as I mentioned in another reply, STBX expressed his hope that someday, when I was with someone else, all four of us could be friends together – STBX, OW, Mystery new partner, and Me.

      Spare me.

    • But they need us to agree to this bullshit because that way it looks like everything’s cool, nobody did anything wrong, it’s just one more nice civilized divorce. They need us to collaborate in reinforcing their facade of being decent people. But we know better now, don’t we?!

  • I got, “hey she’s a nice girl, she’s really smart.” And also…”why can’t we all just live together in the same house.” BTW, we have a 1 yr old, 3 yr old and 5yr old. He chose her the 22 yr old over all of us. “He can relate to her more” I’m 36. As soon as he dumped me his wife…he posted his profile pic of them on facebook. Some of them kissing, some with his hand on her knee. I would like to say that this is a man that I was 100% faithful and supportive of.

    His biggest problem was my few extra pounds or as you put it my post baby muffin top.
    The problem is I was alone with our three children trying to sponsor him to my country. Raising 3 kids alone is very stressful. He is heavily into porn and honestly I’m positive he’s an alcoholic. So…..it would be intereswting to study the effects of porn on marriage and cheating. He had to find a 22 yr old to find a body to live up to his porn star standards. Do you want to know what is even more appallin, I played the humiliating pick me game, He actually asked me while trying to decide between us if I would be willing to get a tounge ring and nipple piercing like his filthy whore. Ahhh, to think of how I humiliated myself. Not to mention the degrade before the discard. Things I thought were for his pleasure when really he just wanted to see me make a spectacle of myself so he could against my knowledge take photos. Where are these photos now. I shutter to think. I struggle every day with thoughts of revenge, I hurt so bad, how could someone turn so cruel overnight> Someone who said he loved me everyday.

    But as time goes by I get stronger, and it’s not just time it’s a mindset. You can get stuck in the same stagnant space and ruminate…or MOVE..keep going. Like Forest Gump, just go, go go and eventually the pain should mostly subside. Fill your lives ladies, not with oppression, monotanous tasks..but with meaningful fulfilling endeavors. What matters to you?

    • Dear Kim – You are among friends!! Hang in there – I sponsored a first husband to come to this country as well….. it was a disaster – the porn star standard has poisoned so many aspects of relationships – all that instant access….. its like it becomes more real to them than what’s actually real. Try and remember, what he’s doing here is NOT about you. Never was, never will be. Courage my friend! You can do this.

    • Yep, porn addictions are spawning unrealistic expectations among both men and women who have the inclination and lack of empathy to cheat on a spouse.

      Internet porn is far worse than a porn magazine and easier to access at all hours of the night.

      In addition, there is interactive internet porn.

      The OW in my STBX’s affair was a sex addict. She would get lap dances from both men and women, would view porn nightly and get her self in her own words based on an email I read:……all “hot and sticky down there” Then she would email my STBX with her porn star teasing conversations.

      I later found out he was just one of a many men she would email all night and get herself all worked up in a lather sexually about.

      Sex addictions are difficult to break too, without major counseling.

  • I found out when my husbands’ baby girl was 10 months old and he had married her mother in another country. I knew it would never work out when he told me that he was bringing her and the baby to the USA and they would be living with us and I would be responsible for taking care of them. OH HELL NO!!!!! So when he came home on leave, he got served with the warning that if he hired an attorney I would fight him tooth and nail and there would be nothing left except attorneys fees. He signed since he knew I would make good on that promise.

  • OMG, they really do follow a set script!
    I got;
    “You’d really like her if you knew her”;
    “I thought we could all be friends”;
    “She was just a friend at first but I knew if she met you, she’d want to be your friend, not mine”
    Suppose it was another way of demonstrating how, after 16-17 years, he didn’t know me at all. As if I would be friends with pond-life like that.

  • In my case, it was my closest friend, his best friend’s WIFE. We were already friends. Makes it even sicker.

      • Thank you. That’s only the tip of the iceburg to my horrible tale.

        I appreciate this site so much. I wish I found it BEFORE I did *everything* wrong after I found out I’d been cheated on. Hindsight is 20/20.

  • I think one of the reasons they do this is also to further reduce any possibility that anybody anywhere could think they have done anything a tad, shall we say, ethically questionable. If she’s a really nice person (which I actually believe; even more stupid than I was (he wasn’t in a relationship when I met him), but possibly very nice. HE’s not stupid!), and she approves of him so obviously, then he can’t be doing anything wrong, can he? If they can get us all to get along great and be friends, then it’s as if I, the BS, were admitting that yes, all this is quite normal and natural. And the people around us could think so too!

    My ex definitely has a type; his first affair partner looked so much like me, only 15 years younger. (Previous long-term gf completely different, although obviously no smarter than I was about him.) The second, current one, also extremely similar to me, just skinny and therefore looking older than me, even though she’s 5 years younger. (Too bad on that part, really; he’s a man who LOVES some meat on a woman. Must be so frustrating for him now that he can’t eat cake ….). Not sure what it means, but I have a sneaking impression that it actually means he wanted ME, only with all those lovely ego kibbles I wasn’t doling out so generously any more. IDIOT, would have been so easy to get me back to kibble-generosity, if he’d treated me the slightest bit well.

    There’s a great article on the definition of stupidity;

    http://cantrip.org/stupidity.html

    He falls into that stupidity quadrant for sure.

  • My husband had an affair with a neighbor I’d never met. He went to see OW to inform her that he had confessed their affair to me, he was cutting off all contact with her, and that I was very upset and hated her. She burst into tears, blaming me for breaking her heart and lamenting that “we would have been friends” if not for my extreme reaction to her fucking my husband. So glad I never got tricked into a friendship with that psychopath.

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