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Dear Chump Lady, My cheater wants to live in my basement

cakemanDear Chump Lady,

My husband of 28 years gave me the speech 5 years ago.  He loved me, but was not in love with me, he wanted his freedom and he needed his space without any responsibility. Of course there was an OW. When I found their itinerary for a romantic beach vacation, I, or should I say, my oldest son kicked him out of the house. He went to live with his mother. And he is still living there at present.

I did the usual — begged, pleaded and pretzeled for 3 very long years. We went into marital counseling and I was under the impression (per his promises) that the OW was out of the picture. We would see each other and talk frequently during this time, and I really thought that our marriage was on the mend. Boy, was I an idiot, and a very mighty chump.

I was a complete mess. Lost 50 pounds, went on antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds, diagnosed with PTSD, lost interest in anything and everything except playing the marriage police. I became obsessed with my husband and OW.  It was truly the darkest period of my life.

Fast forward to today. I have been divorced for a year and a half. My adult kids and I are happy and thriving. I am dating a really great guy which I have loads of fun with. I have found myself again, and have learned so much from this whole experience. I know I will never be chumped again. I have reconnected with family and friends. Right now, life is pretty darn good. I still have my WTF moments, but overall I feel like I am really close to being totally healed.

Recently, my ex and I had to spend some time together due to our oldest son’s engagement. I was civil and talkative and had very little anxiety when around ex. This was a good thing for me because it helped me realize that I have finally achieved MEH.

Now for the fun part. My youngest son recently moved out of my basement, and I am now living on my own for the first time in 30 years. Since I saw my ex, he has been sending email’s requesting that I consider allowing him to move back to the family home with me to rent the basement. He is making all kinds of offers of help around the house and paying a large amount of rent if I would let him move in. He even had the nerve to tell me that I could “come and go as I pleased.”

I am just floored. What is wrong with him? Is this f’d up or what? I have absolutely no intention of letting him move back into my house.  I just can’t wrap my brain around what he is thinking.

Thank you Chump Lady.


Dear Ruggermom,

First off, congratulations on your mightiness. You have truly gained a life — successfully divorced, no more anxiety, a man who treats you right, healthy kids, independence.

And now some cheating fucktard wants to move into your basement?

Yeah, you need that like you need an infestation of raccoons in your chimney. Actually, I think the raccoons do more around the house than cheaters. And raccoons are always cool with you “coming and going as you please,” as long as you keep the trash cans accessible.

So what is your ex thinking?

We’re not supposed to untangle their knotted little skeins, but I think what he’s thinking is pretty obvious — CAKE. He misses glorious CAKE. He had a really sweet cake situation before, you there begging, pleading, and pretzeling for the awesomeness of him. And he misses that kind of power and centrality. Romantic vacations with the OW, you at home sweeping up the dust bunnies and keeping the refrigerator stocked. Don’t you want that back? Heck, Ruggermom, he’s SWEETENING the deal! He’ll pay you RENT! And he promises to not be the boss of you! You can come and go! Yes, you will have your freedom because he said so. Isn’t that special?

God, if anyone ever wanted proof that cheating is about narcissism, this is it. The idiot still thinks he’s a prize.


And that, I’m sure, is not the status the OW was going for. And I don’t know about your ex-mother-in-law but I would guess she probably has curfew, being a person of advanced years. And she is probably not cool with the comings and goings of a grown-ass man. Hell, she might even expect rent, or things done around the house.

But you? In his eyes, you’re still a chump. You’ve fallen for his promises before. Why not again? He can promise you whatever. Insinuate himself into your life and deliver on none of it. But that’s okay, he would be there embedded in your house — broadcasting to the world (and your children especially) that what he did Was Not So Bad. He could control your world again. Put a stop to this ridiculous man who courts you, finds you attractive and worthy of respect. Because gee whiz, nothing creates relationship awkwardness like one’s ex-husband living in one’s basement.

Yes, to a dim-witted, narcissistic fucktard like your ex, this all seems like a very splendid plan indeed.

What’s in it for you? Absolutely NOTHING. There never was anything in it for you, just like the good ol’ days.

Tell him from all of us here at Chump Nation to fuck off.

And tell mom — no tag backs.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at Read more about submission guidelines.
  • No shit you can come and go as you please. ITS YOUR HOUSE. Love how he tells you what you’d be allowed to do in your own damn house. WOW.

    • Yeah, really. They’re DIVORCED. Her coming and going as she pleases is rather the point.

      Idiot. He was fine with coming and going as HE pleased, with her abiding by a different set of rules. Yeah, I’m sure he misses that.

      • And I love how he sent up a BIG RED FLAG right up front – waving magestically for even a chump to see. He is telling Ruggermom, up front, you “can come and go as you please”… You KNOW how this is going to spiral out ASAP.

        Well done, Ruggermom! I picture you trying to politely decline his “generous” offer, but you can’t get the words out because you’re laughing so hard you can’t breath and tears are running down your face. A good laugh like that is cleansing!

        He’s a weak messed up dude, and you are looking strong and together… and he wants some o’that. Save it all for your kids and you and your new guy and your future.

      • Dear Tracy,

        Totally off-topic here, but……

        I GOT YOUR BOOK TODAY!!!! (3 copies so I can share your wisdom!)

        Yeah! What a beauty!

        and………..IT’S TUESDAY! How divine!

        Forge on, Woman….ForgeOn!

    • Right?!! Hahahahaha… tears of laughter… can’t type… haaahaa…

      Rugger, you’re doing so great!!

      • Forge On, oh me too,me too. Got it a couple days ago and read it in one sitting. Wanted MORE MORE. Loved it all and lots of stuff in it for us seasoned Chump Nation. Great job, Tracy. I was hoping she’d put a spot on here so we could all give her a standing ovation.

        • Shechump,
          Yeah, I would love a place where all of us could comment about the book, cheer and so on—– but I dare say she is a bit too modest & humble for that!

          Am just now getting a chance to read it. Skimmed through earlier…..Only on page 12.

          Will make a great ‘bedtime story’ tonite!

          Forge on, Shechump…..

          • I loved the book! If I ever know someone going through what we all are, I will give it as a gift. I also posted a five star review on Amazon! Be sure to put in a review, fellow Chumps!

  • Good for you Ruggermom!!
    Sounds like your life is going great.

    What is he thinking? He’s thinking you look good to him again b/c he screwed up his life w/ you. You’re happy w/o him so you look attractive again.

    Idiots. Only stick around for the good times but as soon as things get messy or complicated they’re overwhelmed and on to something to numb their dissatisfaction w/ life.
    Well, welcome to life! Some of us are overwhelmed and stressed but still manage to be faithful and work on our marriage!

    Yay for you knowing your mind, standing up for yourself, being on your own and being happy! 🙂

  • I am L_A_U_G_H_I_N_G out LOUD over here. This could be me except I’m going through divorce and the love bombing is ridiculous. Trips, money, compliments, it truly is disgusting knowing the intent behind the attention. Stbx even said he was love bombing me, wth?! Right now he is vacillating between syrupy sweetness and rage. I’m not interested in caring for an aging old sickly fart who realizes his nurse/maid/cook/baby sitter has jumped ship! This post comes just in time!

    • ” I’m not interested in caring for an aging old sickly fart who realizes his nurse/maid/cook/baby sitter has jumped ship!”

      Bless your heart jinx!!! Your comment right here just made me spit my tea all over my pc lol!! Now that was funny, you go girl!!! 🙂 Now that old fart can fuck off!!

  • Your mightiness rings loud and true Rugger. Good job! You should feel very proud 🙂 Kara hit it on the nail, exactly what I was thinking as well. Like hell he has ANY sort of say in what you do in YOUR OWN HOME! haha wow indeed. So he wants a new place? Maybe you can find a really big cardboard box (or get all fancy and go the large doghouse route), label it with a name plaque that says “cheating fucktard” engraved in a large, bold typeface, and then put that box/dog house in a nice little alleyway or something. Sure honey, you can move right in!

  • I would love to have the opportunity to have my Ex come back and ask to “rent my basement” just for the satisfaction of being able to tell him to kiss my ass as I shut the door in his face. What a glorious fantasy…and yet you get to do it in real life!! Make sure the door makes a nice little slamming sound when you shut it – and if it happens to bloody his little narcissistic cheater nose, all the better!

  • Feeling kind of depressed as I too, live in my mother’s basement 🙁 I do it for financial reasons as he was the breadwinner and I work part time with no benefits, but it definitely makes me feel less than.

    • Apples and oranges. The difference lies in the purpose. You are making a sacrifice, accepting a humble situation so you can honor your responsibilities and build a future. Ruggermom’s ex is taking advantage, pure and simple, exploiting that situation only because no better chump is available at the moment.

      Chin up. We are mighty.

      • Agreed. There is no shame in doing what you must do to move forward in life. Be proud that you have had the guts to live authentically.

        For what it’s worth, SickofHerChump, I moved from an 1800 square -foot house of my dreams into an apartment on the rough side of town. Sometimes I feel bad about it. But it’s a stepping-stone.

        • In a tiny studio apartment here, too – and it feels SO much more spacious than my 2000sf house that I used to share with the cheating X!!

          SickOfHerChump, be proud that you’re moving forward and have the courage to accept help while you’re needing it. All the best to you!

          • Living in the only thing I have left … My car … although the payment is coming in 2 months behind. Elated when i find odd jobs to make car payment and insurance. Any kind of phyical residence, no matter how small would be icing on the cake. Meeting with someone tomorrow to see if I can get anything out of my wedding ring (may be able to pay one more month of car insurance … The generally dont repo car until 90 days do they?). Being abandoned after almost 30 years of marriage, being deceived asif all was peeachy right up till DDAY, having life savings absconded to fund OW, being over 50, unemployed, no unemployment left, no health insurance, being labeled “nuts” due to grieving so badly, and more, is STILL better than being with a fucktard who would do this.

            Mind you, I fully expect that my narc (were Little Miss Twat) to kick him tithe curb, would have the audacity to ask to borrow my car, even in these circumstances.

            They’re narcs. It’s ALL about them, remember?

            • Oh, Me, I’m so sorry to hear about your situation. Honey, I’m going to keep you in my prayers. I know how hard it is to get any job if your’e over 50. I was laid off from my job as a post partum nurse at age 57 after 11 years in the same job, and good reviews always, because the hospital was going after an all RN certification. I’m an LPN, a hospital nurse with almost 30 years of experience. I could not get a job to save my life. I was down to 5 dollars to my name when I managed to get a volunteer job that pays a stipend which is just enough to keep me afloat. I now visit seniors for the Senior Companion Program. I have just 5 months to go before I can collect social security. If you are 55 they are always looking for senior companions. Hang in there Sweetie.

            • Sending hugs, Me. What a scumball to leave you in that situation. Do you have any legal recourse? What state do you live in?

              • I am sending hugs and prayers too. Drop by your local public library and see if you can get the number to Legal Aid in your community. If you were in any way abused (sounds like you were), see if you can find out where the local women’s shelter is located. Hang in there, Me.

            • Me, I couldn’t find a way to respond to your post below so wanted to write here that I wish you luck on your interview. I’m so sorry for the situation you’re in but agree that you are better off without the P.O.S. ex. Please let us know how the job interview goes. I will be thinking of you and sending out all good thoughts. Please take care.

              • So sorry to hear about your circumstances Me. Best of luck during your interview. Sending you good thoughts and prayers. Let us know how it goes. Hugs.

            • Good grief Me! I am hoping for the best in life for you. It blows that these assfarts completely desert us, and leaving us screwed financially, emotionally, and every which way, while they go on prancing around in their lives, happy happy happy. Especially those of us in really long-term marriages. And we don’t know what’s going on until Dday for the most part. Maybe have suspicions, but when it all comes to a head on Dday, it’s like the end of the world for us. To add insult to injury. they spend tons and tons of money on the OW. Me..I am sending positive things in your direction. You will make it!!!

            • Me, hi. My heart broke for you. Would you give me your email so I can send you something?
              I am praying for you. It is just so not fair.

              Big hug.


      • (((Big hugs))) Sick of HER Chump, you are living authentically and honestly. There is no shame in that.

    • Nomar is right. If you had a full-time job or if you had known you needed to be able to fully support yourself, you would be in a different situation. You weren’t the one who blew up your joint financial life and put you in a precarious situation. But you are on the road to fixing it. God bless moms, dads, grandparents, siblings and friends who take chump in when we need a place to live in the transition. And trust me, living alone in the transition months is not all roses either.

      • Agreed. At my lowest it was mom’s home cooking and dad’s old stories that put me on the mend. That’s a whole lot different than a playboy/girl who doesn’t have their own pad to continue their tryst.

        • Thanks everyone. Deep down I know I’m doing it for the right reasons (to pay off the debt I was left with, to allow my kids to continue to do the activities they love, to save a downpayment etc), but it’s still hard sometimes. Unfortunately, there’s no prospect of me getting a full time job anytime soon as I’m left with 100% responsibility of my young kids during the week (asshole ex refuses his 1 day a week visitation that is in our agreement), and daycare is just too expensive. This likely means that I’ll be in my mom’s basement a while yet, but I need to keep seeing it as a “stepping-stone” as Lily Bart stated. It feels like my life is in limbo, but I guess I have to get used to it.

          • Your kids are gonna know someday how mighty and amazing you were at this time of their lives.
            Limbo is better than the living hell it must have been with your ex-shitsack.

          • I am rooting for you, Sick of HER Chump. You know what you need to do for yourself and your kids. You are mighty indeed. What has helped me in having to take ten steps back is doing things that give me some pleasure and allow me space to think and breath. Simple things I love. Be kind to yourself. I say this mantra to myself when I feel down that I am financially struggling having been derailed my cheater-ex and having to start again and sleep in the living room/kitchen so my son can have a bedroom: THERE IS NO SHAME. Be outdoors if possible. What things give you peace? Build on every moment of simple pleasure and love yourself. I have brought some plants into my space and they give me great comfort. Living things around me that are growing help. I also realized that in my limbo state I have taken comfort in traveling the dirty filthy subways ; O. I am traveling from one place to another and in my element, homeless people on their way from here to there. Perhaps there is a place that echoes back your place of limbo too? I respect your courage and grit. May you go from strength to strength.

          • Hang in, Sick of HER Chump. Folks care. As much as anyone here or anything I’ve read here, you are an inspiration to me.

            • I truly am grateful that I found this site. I haven’t commented in a while as I have been feeling depressed. I have health issues due to stress and with the depression I’ve barely had enough energy to do the day to day let alone contribute here. I read everyday but never feel like I have anything valuable to add. Today, I contributed. While it was negative (me feeling sorry for myself…yes, I am depressed), I put it out there. And all of you wonderful people took the time out of your day to respond to me and lift my spirits. Thank you so much for letting me know that someone cares. It floors me that people I have never met, can care and offer a virtual shoulder to cry on, while our ex’s couldn’t care less. I am mighty and I will find my way back. I have 2 beautiful kids that are my world. You all have no idea how much your kind words mean to me today. Hugs to you all.

              • This is exactly what I get here! Even if I don’t post I still find sage advice in peoples stories, comments and advice.

                Virtual hugs from someone living w/ her daughter at her parents house 🙂
                We won’t be here forever and ilke Moving Liquid said, we are not our circumstances. That’s a good one for me to remember, too!

              • Doing what it takes to care for your kids in a difficult time is courageous, and fuck your ex for being such an asshole. He will be the loser in the long run, because you are the one who is truly there for your babies. You can really hold your head high because even though you’ve been screwed over, you keep going, for your kids’ sake and your own. Someday you will be in your own place and in a better financial situation, and until then, take Chumpectomy’s advice and be very kind to yourself. I am really rooting for you. I hate your shitty ex!

              • Watch the Lifetime movie “Home For Christmas” (starring the lady from The Terminator movies). Friends kept telling me to watch it, that is was my story exactly … Middle aged upper class woman’s husband announces out of the blue that he’s leaving with OW. She goes from a big house and designer clothes to only having a car, and she lives in it, sleeps in Open Houses, and keeps her dignity. It’s really good.

                Oh yeah, I still have my IPad with wifi. I can park near stores with good wifi signal and still have access to the world. I park in various parking lots and use my time to study and learn. Even when friends let me crash ant their houses, I arrive as they are going to bed and am up, bed made, covers put away, and out the door by the time they get up so as not to be a burden.

                We all have a story. Mighty stories. But we all (no matter what our plights happen to be) are light years better than the scum we were married to. I still have the WTF moments when the reality circles around and hits me, but one of the great things I’ve learned from all my study (and trust me, I’ve studied a LOT in 3 years) is that the pain results from RESISTING the reality. The sooner we accept that IS, and stop looking back at what WAS, the better off we’ll be.

                I have a job interview tomorrow. Pray for me y’all. Fingers crossed!

              • This shit these jerks leave us with just pisses me off to no end. I will say that I hate them. Period. And I agree Sick of HER Chump, I am grateful for the website. If I hadn’t stumbled upon CL, I would have jumped off the nearest bridge by now.

              • Best of luck on that interview, Me!

                Also, I really recommend going to a lawyer to find out what kind of resource you have. If he has retirement, you’re entitled to half of it. Also, you are entitled to draw on his social security (assuming you’re in the U.S.). If you signed away your rights to his retirement, then that’s a problem, but if you’re in the divorce process stage, then you should be able to get at least 50%.

                Many hugs to you!

              • ((Hugs)) Feeling depressed is perfectly normal with all that has happened to you…to all of us. Our ex’s have upended our lives and sent us on a journey we never expected. It takes a while to find your footing on that journey, but that doesn’t mean that you are any “less than” anyone else! It just means you are in a season of change and rebuilding and will rise from the ashes in due time. Children are God’s greatest blessing. I have two, and one in heaven, and no material possession or home or ex husband or relationship of any kind can compare to the love I feel (and receive) from my amazing kids!! You are a mom…and that is a priceless “possession” beyond compare!

    • Sick of HER Chump, we are NOT our circumstances. We had this thrust upon us. I live with my elderly parents, a fact which causes me such embarrassment. They enjoy having me here, thankfully, and because I was around them during the darkest days of my abandonment, I had to maintain some control over my emotions. If I hadn’t been around them, I shudder to think of where I’d be at today.

      • All doing what we have to do to get our feet back under us…I lived with my sister and her husband after life at home got too scary with XH. I will always remember getting up with my sister in the middle of the night to eat ice cream sundaes and have girl-talk…saved my life.

      • Me,
        Good Luck and I will be thinking about you tomorrow and sending only good thoughts your way for landing this job!

        I don’t know you but I think you are incredible. Everyone here is, having your life ripped out from under you and starting over is an amazing feat to be applauded and supported. The mental strength and determination it takes to start over from scratch is unimaginable to many people, yet there is a whole community of people here around the globe doing just that at all ages.

        I am proud to be a Chump and in the company of so many incredibly strong and smart people who unbeknownst to them at the time made a bad choice and survived and are now on the road back to thriving again. It is an awesome thing to say you lived through and survived such a major life changing event and came out on the other side.

        Me, go there tomorrow knowing we are all with you and cheering you on! Please report back tomorrow to let us know how it went.

    • Your kids will likely remember these simpler times fondly. I’m hoping you have a good relationship with your mother, and if so, then it means your kids are surrounded by people who love them. Kids have simple material needs. You are being a great mom. Keep looking for work that is fulfilling to you, for your own ego’s sake. It will do wonders for your poise and self-confidence, naturally. You will command respect when you contribute something that you’re good at (even if it takes a while to get enough experience to be good.)
      You got this, girl! Keep going!

      • Thank you Miss Sunshine. I do have a wonderful relationship with my mom, thankfully. She has always been my best friend (she was my matron of honour and I was hers when she married my stepfather). I love her to death, but it is hard to say I live with her. People look at me when I say I live at home. I know I shouldn’t care what others think, but it’s difficult feeling like you can’t support your kids. I need to start looking at it differently, and that is what I’m working on.

    • There is no shame here! I, too, had to sell my 2800 sq. Ft house and move into my parents’ daylight basement with my 2 kids and pets. At first it was hard, feeling I had lost my independence, but I have come around. My kids have a fantastic daily relationship with their grandparents, I am saving up lots of money for a good down payment, kids get to stay in the same district as their friends, and my parents offer free babysitting while I get my degree finished up. I am so very humble and grateful to be here building myself and my family up. You have a safe, healthy, and supportive environment for your kids – being a part of a multi generational family is great for children. Focus on the positives, and be proud!

      • Dawn, moving back to live with my elderly parents has shown me how much I do value family and I wish the family hadn’t spread out all over the globe. My fantasy now is to someday buy a big house and bring my sister back, provide for my parents, and even bribe my daughter to consider moving in. Why did the Western world decide it was important for us all to go our separate ways?

        • That’s an easy one.

          There’s more money to be made by Big Business if everyone buys their own home and all the stuff needed to live in it, rather than everyone sharing one household.

          Personally, I’d welcome the chance to move in with my folks again…if I could kick my brother out of their basement first!


          • I love spending holidays with my family. My parents had lots of kids. While not all of us have kids of our own, getting together means being with three generations. When I was growing up, we often had 4 generations at family get-togethers. One of my sisters-in-law says that the best holidays she ever had were spent with our family, with too many people in a single household, people camped out in sleeping bags on the floor and lined up to use the bathrooms–but everyone got along!!!

            STBX seemed to like those gatherings, too, until recently. Schmoopie comes from a small, dysfunctional family (abusive parents, and raised largely by her step-father, who remarried after her own mother died). STBX’s family was dysfunctional, too. I wish them both the happiness they will experience in recreating their families’ history. 😉

        • This is so true. My X and most of my friends are from South America, I’m from North America.. In many of their families generations live in the same house together – in my family we couldn’t wait to move out at age 18. It’s all cultural, but I always loved the dynamic of generations living together. Visiting friends’ homes where they all live together always had a special sort of strength and bonding feeling to them. I liked seeing how close they all were and how many people had each other’s backs under the same roof. Pretty neat.

          • I agree – I also like the dynamic of a multi-generational household. All the support and wisdom one would need, all under one roof, not to mention how much $$$ could be saved over a period of time.

            Too bad Big Business masquerading as societal pressures prevent many from exploring this lifestyle further.

            I wonder if living in a multi-generational household would have somehow impeded X’s cheater lifestyle…having someone around all the time HAS to make sneaking around more difficult, wouldn’t you say?

            I wonder if there are stats on this…

            • “I wonder if living in a multi-generational household would have somehow impeded X’s cheater lifestyle…having someone around all the time HAS to make sneaking around more difficult, wouldn’t you say?”
              Personally, I don’t think so. They are so entitled in their minds that they will find anywhere to go for their trysts.

              • I don’t really think so either. My x is in a fancy job where he frequently needs to stay late into the night for editing sessions. I’d been with him many times for these sessions, so in our later years together when I had my own work projects going on and he needed to stay late, I didn’t question it at all. I don’t think a multi-gen situation would have halted him. He wants something, he does whatever he can to get it – no real care who else is around. 🙁 Plus, some of my latina friends would say I was being weird if I got jealous of him flirting with other women in front of me. Apparently it’s more common to sort of overlook affairs and such in their culture. Any latina women here have anything to say on this? Was it just my bohemian artsy friends or is this across the board? Or completely wrong altogether?? Since several of them had known about x’s affair for months before I found out, and now one of them is sleeping with my x – I figured maybe there’s some truth to this? Hard time believing anything from any of them at this point, really…

              • sandy, when my adult daughter was home from college,
                she caught my fucktard several times. she plans on coming to court
                as a witness.

    • That is not at all the same thing Sick of HER Chump. And don’t you dare think like that anymore. YOU are taking care of the kids, not him. YOU did not have a clue that you would need to be breadwinner and take care of bills he left you with. The A-Hole from RugerMoms past did not have kids, and I’m guessing he has had a full time job the whole time. HE just can’t live alone and apparently the OW didn’t allow him to move in.

      YOU, on the other hand, do not have the advantages he has, so there is NO COMPARISON at all. Hold your head high.

    • Sick of HER Chump,

      I had to flee (I didn’t just move, I fled) from what I felt was my cozy dream home to move into the city into an apartment, which I can barely afford. I never thought I would reach this age (59) and be starting over in an apartment and I am grateful. Better yet, I have not had any furniture since I moved in, except for a bed and television and some incidentals, including a computer, because Cheater McFlamingTurd is passive-aggressively holding it hostage because he likes knowing he can control that. Fuck him. I would be living with my mother if she was still alive. We do what we have to do while we need to do it. When we can do better, we do.

      My grandmother had an old saying, “What You Eat Doesn’t Make Me Fat.” In other words, fuck what other people think. You’re doing a great job of holding things together, giving your children and your parents the gift of living in an extended family. There’s nothing better than that feeling of connectedness. Enjoy the time living with you parents and be thankful you still have them.

      (((HUGS))) (((HUGS)))

    • To Sick of her chump, Don’t you dare feel less than! Are you living an honest and decent life? Are you doing the right things in life? The “not so fun stuff” that mature adults do? Look, you have standards and a moral compass and your life will be infinitely better in the long run. Yes, somebody unilaterally and without your knowledge decided to do some really crappy things to you, you were victimized, but you are NOT a victim! You have a future and a destiny and these idiots can’t take that! There are always setbacks, but we can now control the outcome. Be patient and take every small step and celebrate! It gets better, I promise!

  • Oh lord…this is ridiculous. You are doing GREAT. Don’t even give this a second thought.
    These guys think they still have control over us. For example the email I got this week…”oh, by the way I told —(his cousin and family) that you would love to have them stay at your house next week.” WTF?! Amazing.
    Keep strong and mighty!

    • jusduckie… I find it amazing that they still think that they can control us!! My daughter is going to see her dad for the first time in 6 months tonight. My daughter gets a text from him last night saying “get your mum to drop you over tomorrow about 6 and she can come and pick you up Thursday night!” wtf!!! He has a brand new car. Um no buddy, if you want to see your daughter (he has a son he hasn’t seen in 10 months) make the effort you tosser!! I am NOT your friggen taxi!!

  • WTF?

    Why in the world would a man want to live in his ex’s basement? I would much, much, much prefer living on the streets or even in prison. There would be infinitely more dignity with the latter choices.

    This dude is off his rocker….

  • “Yeah, you need that like you need an infestation of raccoons in your chimney.”

    Or as much as you need . . .

    . . . Bernie Madoff managing your retirement savings.
    . . . Honey-Boo-Boo’s mom as your fitness instructor.
    . . . Charlie Sheen babysitting your grand kids (when you have them).
    . . . Miley Cyrus giving you etiquette lessons.
    . . . Denis Rodman as your 12-step sponsor.
    . . . Arnold Schwarzenegger supervising your house servants.
    . . . Kim Jong-un as your public relations advisor.
    . . . Tori Spelling remodeling your house.

    Which is to say, NOT AT ALL. In fact, less than that. ANY contact you have with this loser will drag you down. You’ve heard of a tar baby? People like your ex are shit babies. Even the slightest touch and you’re covered with the stink of their failure and desperation. Stay away. Far away. And ignore Shit Baby’s stupid request for co-habitation.

  • I’d think of this as an opportunity to set clear healthy boundaries with somebody who doesn’t have them or respect them (so it’s not a teaching moment for him; it’s just a chance to prove to yourself that you can do it).

    I have a good, healthy, adult relationship with a kind, normal man who respects me, and what kind of asshole would I have to be to invite my ex-husband to live in my basement. I’m not that kind of asshole [hint, hint]. 🙂

  • So was he just being nice at the engagement so that he could worm his way back into the house? Or get something else from you?

    The thought processes of ex’s are truly mind-boggling.

    Here’s an example:

    My xH was kicked out of the house and immediately set up “house” with OW, and by house, I mean a student apartment near the college she was attending (which we attended at met at by the way…ah memories!) Since it was just the two of them, they got a one bedroom apartment – nevermind that he has two kids who will presumably visit him.

    He and OW told me they couldn’t afford anything else, especially because she had dogs.

    Strange, they could afford to go to New York at least twice, and Mexico, and Boston, and just a few weeks ago, San Francisco, to celebrate her graduation from college.

    Well, rent has a habit of going up, regardless of vacations.

    So they decide to move last week, and get a place that has four (!) bedrooms – one for her, one for him (because they’ve “broken up” but are still living together) and one for each of my kids (!!!).

    I couldn’t resist – not very meh but I asked him – you didn’t actually think of the kids this time, did you?


    Yesterday, he ACTUALLY CALLED ME TO ASK FOR MONEY to help with the move, because moving is expensive.

    Because I’m supposed to lend him money to help him make a move with the OW? WHAT?!?!

    I told him surely he must have extra money, because he’s been on so many trips (side note – we didn’t have a honeymoon trip, nor did we travel until the marriage was almost over. It was expensive). He told me there’s no extra money.

    I told him, “Then you shouldn’t have gone on so many trips.”


    Yes, it was petty, but it felt SOOOOOOO GOOD!

    • This clown clearly needs to raise his cheating game. I can’t believe he didn’t try to make you feel guilty by telling you the only reason he needs money is because he’s sacrificing and getting the extra two bedrooms for the kids. I mean, if he wasn’t such a hero just trying to do his part for the kids, he wouldn’t have to humble himself. It’s not easy coming to you with his hand out. Don’t you feel sorry for him? Aren’t you being a little judgmental and harsh on him?

      Lord deliver us. Truth at this site is truly stranger than fiction.

      • Oh dear lord – that is actually what STBX did to me last week when I told him I was dropping his child support down to what I am required to pay him (rather than three times that amount, which I have done for the last 8 months so he could get on his feet). He basically said if I did that he would have to move in with OW and then the kids wouldn’t be able to see him anymore (yet again, this is somehow all my fault).

        Arsehole then made veiled threats about how if he insisted on our daughter staying with him fifty percent of the time, I would have to pay him a lot more. She stays one night a fortnight, and chooses not to go for that one night a lot of the time. Good luck with forcing a cynical, determined 16 year old to stay with you!

    • A couple years ago, ex emailed me and said he wanted me to pay half the cost of an airline ticket for our son so son could accompany ex on a trip to visit EX’S FAMILY back east. Ex wrote all this manipulative bullshit about how disappointed our son would be if he couldn’t go, blah blah blah. I suggested ex get his family to pay for the ticket if they wanted to see our son so badly. Didn’t hear another peep from him about it, but son did somehow get that airline ticket, so I guess ex suckered someone in his family into paying for it.

    • My XH ALWAYS says he has no money. No money for son’s video games, for gifts for kids’ friends’ birthday parties, books, entertainment, etc. No money at all for anyone.

      Except himself, of course.

      D16 got wise to him when she stopped by his townhouse for something and saw top of the line appliances, gourmet food, and all manner of electronics. Because his money is HIS money. Mine needs to be shared with the kids.

      He’s going to need it to pay for help in his old age. Because his kids won’t be around to do it…

      • Yes – there was no money for his half of a big ticket item (which the marriage settlement says he has to pay) – a computer for my daughter, as a 8th grade graduation present.

        Except there WAS money – our last income tax refund as a married couple.

        He agreed to pay his half, at first, then said because of her behavior, he didn’t think she deserved it, so he wouldn’t pay his half.

        Is my daughter an out of control teen hell-bent on destruction? NO.

        Is she abusive, cruel to animals? Is she doing drugs? NO.

        My daughter’s “father” did not want to buy his top of a class of 500 3 years in a row studious college-bound generally well-behaved daughter a computer to use for schoolwork because 1) why couldn’t she use the “free” computers he picks up from school for his own use, and 2) she called him and the OW out on their behavior (asking them why they were trying to not be seen by his former students/OW’s classmates together in public, and 3) she was defiant (that’s true – not a lot of 14 year olds will take commands from a 21 year old OW).

        I got her the computer, and gave it to her early.

      • We have that deal, too. It seems dear old Dud’s reduced child support (because he’s unemployed AGAIN) is supposed to pay for everything. Loser.

      • My STBX idiot claimed in court last week that he has no money. Excuse me? He’s making the same amount of money he made before this whole nightmare started. We all know his money goes to Miss Trailer Park Trash. Even the kids say it.

    • I’m surprised you didnt launch into an all out Tourette’s spew at the end of the question mark. Ha!

  • Kind of a related story . . .
    When my idiot moved out, not 4 hours later he called and said he made a mistake and needed to come back to “maintain residence”. I secretly laughed my ass off at that one. I told him if he signed the quit claim deed, he could put a sleeping bag in the basement.

    I chumped him. He signed it, not bothering to figure out what a quit claim actually was. Then I changed the locks.

    9 times out of 10, these cheaters are so self-absorbed they miss the details of other crucial matters, such as, where will I live? Now my X lives in a square in a shit part of town with his paramour. Enjoy dummy . . . next time be smarter than the furniture.

    • Your ex and mine should get together 🙂 I swear, it’s weird, but I feel kind of lucky–despite all the evil dysfunctional crap that went down–because she had the legal and financial sense of 12 year old on the way out the door (and, truthfully, even before then, but that’s another story).

      • The funny thing was he kept trying to fuck me over; like trying to take the house, trying to take the dog, going for my 401K. And each time he was just too stupid to figure it out how to actually do it.

        At one point he DEMANDED I remove him from our car insurance. He was acting like us sharing a policy was even too much contact for him to bear. Yeah, whatever jackass. So I had him removed and guess what . . . jackass never secured his own insurance and found out he couldn’t afford to get it, especially when you go somewhere else without existing coverage.

        Another time, he asked me to put him back on my car insurance because it was “only fair” since he was paying a credit card he had used 4 YEARS AGO to buy me a laptop. It was a fucking gift for my birthday!

        Cheaters . . . . how do they manage to get to work every day?

        • Oh, Rumblekitty, once we’re on to the con they’re running, it’s not all that hard to get a step or two ahead of them. The quit claim gambit is classic. Some of them have adolescent brains, I swear–they think like 12 year-olds–only about what they want right now. When Jackass did he exit/discard of me, he was convinced that I would just fade into the sunset and he could carry on with Schmoopie till he got bored and then hoover me back without the risk of commitment (“I’ve got to take care of Mom now….”). He actually told me a story about a man who moved into a nursing home to take care of his father and ended up getting divorced because he lived in the nursing home for years, no doubt prepping me for a pick-me dance with his mother. But he failed to understand that I am not one of his semi-literate, uneducated skanks, and once I found out about his MOW, the relationship was done. The only question was whether he would acknowledge what he did, which of course he did not. I have no doubt that in a few years, he will come mooching back, with some explanation involving how he lost his mind with grief when his friend died. Or something. Because the Karma Bus rolls on and once a cheater is over 50, things go downhill from there.

        • RK, your stories made me laugh! My ex tried to tell me I needed to pay rent after I moved in with a friend (I couldn’t stand to stay in the house with him any more). He said I had to pay towards the mortgage in order to get equity after we sold our house, even though I wasn’t living there. Luckily my lawyer told him to take a leap.

          • In our divorce agreement, I get 100% of the proceeds of the sale, whenever I decide to sell. He was trying to get half of that money and my lawyer basically told them to stand down and shut the fuck up.

            He pretty much handed me the house, this after trying to wreck me financially. I don’t think he relented out of guilt, I think he was too stupid and confused as to know how to get what he wanted. He just threw up his hands and stomped away. Plus my lawyer was pretty good. 😉

            And to think this idiot wanted me to use his lawyer. Yeah ok.

        • Car insurance…you know, a lot of us here wait and wait for the karma bus, because we’re expecting a righteous downfall for the cheaters, but sometimes small stops are good too…

          So, back when xH first left and was living his fantasy with his 21 year old OW, he wanted to cancel the car insurance we’d had for years so he and OW could have their own policy. I called up our insurance agent (no doubt telling her more than she needed to know) and secured my own insurance.

          Expensive car insurance means fewer toys! Fewer trips! Why on earth did the xH need full coverage on a 20 year old truck (which was a gift – read FREE from my father, who loved that truck and was happy to see it stay in the family…)? Liability insurance is enough! More toys! More fun!

          A month later, on his way home from an unannounced “visit” to the kids (yay for me – barf), he totaled the truck.

          By not paying attention to the car stopped in front of him.

          Which was a US Government car.

          He was totally at fault, and got nothing.

          And had to share the car he and OW just bought together, for a year until he bought a car, last year…that ending up needing a repair that the warranty didn’t cover.

          Should have kept that car insurance…

          • Awe, that’s a heart-warming story. lol

            I always tell my friends I don’t wish anything bad for my X because, left to his own devices, he just keeps dangling meat in from of the Karma Bear and gets bit all by his own doing. I don’t have to do a thing. Christ! He’s so good at fucking up I don’t want to interfere!

              • Love it RK.
                I did not think anyone would ever see STBX the way I have all these years. But sure enough as time goes on he is revealing his true colours to everyone. Bless his fucked up little heart.

      • Oh I’m big-stuffin’ it now . . . but I was a mess while it was happening. I wish I can say I was all smooth and relaxed but that would be a lie. lol I was just in protection mode.

    • Yeah, my cheater fuckhead actually went down and signed a quit claim deed on his own, and then called me up to tell me that if I did not move back into the house “they” were going to come arrest me for “abandonment of property”. I told him OK and hung up whereupon I laughed myself silly. Yup, he really was that stupid, and I owned the house totally from then on. Yeah, I had to get a part time second job to afford the mortgage, but I did, and kept up the payments.

      I would have loved to have seen his face when his divorce lawyer told him I would have had to buy out his equity. What was priceless was that he did it to himself. I didn’t have to lift a finger. To quote Mama Gump…..stupid is as stupid does.

  • Ah yes, when the ex expects you to continue to serve. Mine has had money struggles recently and asked me to ‘understand’. Um. No. Dude, you have money troubles because you have never been able to handle your finances and now that I’m not around to keep your spending under control you’ve gone mad. Poor thing, it must be so difficult for these guys but my money-stretched ex has left for yet another holiday so I guess money isn’t all that tight when it comes to his own personal pleasure. These guys are pretty funny when you realise they just don’t get that we won’t be there ‘understanding’ anymore.

    • I love listening to STBX complain about money. All I can think about is that he has no student loans, and he’s complaining that he owes on a major appliance he bought over a year ago. For some weird reason, he’s not paid off the charge. Me? I bought the next major appliance that failed in the house. It wasn’t that much less than the one STBX bought. I paid it off in less than 6 months because I looked at the “six months same as cash” financing. STBX put the appliance on a card that charges close to 30% apr. He can afford to take Schmoopie to dinner, but not make timely credit payments.

  • Ruggermom, I can’t believe how text book they all are, like they all attended the same meeting on “How to be a bottom feeder, soul sucking loser”.
    Oh yeah, why wouldn’t any woman dump a great guy to have her cheating loser of an EX move into her basement.
    He is doing it just to see if he can suck you in, make no mistakes; he is not doing it because of any love or caring that he has for you. You stopped begging and got back on your feet in a glorious way and he wants to bring you back down where he can wipe his feet on you. To have these soul suckers in your life at all means you have a black cloud blocking the good light, if I was in your shoes I would limit any contact with him to nothing, zip, engagement or not, they are evil and vindictive assholes, and you don’t need him bringing his negativity into your bright new world. They are like a case of crabs or lice; once they find a host to feed off of they’re a bitch to get rid of and nobody wants to get too close to you in case they catch them?
    Congrats on being N-free and happy!

  • “Cake Man,” indeed. If Ruggermom’s X can afford to pay her rent, then he could afford an apartment. You can be sure that in some way, the kibbles have dried up over at mom’s house and he’s back sniffing around to see if you remember his specialness. If he could worm his way into the basement, he’s back in that cheater paradise. He can cheat on the OW with Ruggermom (even if they don’t sleep together, it’s bound to make whatever OW is in the picture start up a pick-me dance). And he can go man-to-man with Ruggermom’s new love interest and swim in the ocean of ego kibbles he gets when he insinuates himself between Ruggermom and the new guy in her life. Just goes to show that the human beings in the drama are interchangeable. What’s constant is the “role” they play: stable cake supply (spouse/partner); new supply (OW/OM); unwitting competition (partner of new cake supply). If the OW in Ruggermom’s situation is still hanging around (while he lives in Mommy’s basement), she must be feeling like a stable cake supply and he’s ready to triangulate; if the OW’s kicked him to the curb, he’s looking for kibbles back in familiar places. We are shocked and amused and a little indignant at the self-centeredness of this guy but this is how the think all the time: how can I manipulate this person to fill that sucking black hole inside where a heart and conscience should be?

    The Jackass lived in his parents’ attic for a long time–5 years at least, probably more like 8 or 9. He didn’t pay anything, but did home projects, so he said. But his exit from our relationship involved going back there to live on his own to fix up the house for his mother to sell. So he says. I’ll bet anything that he’s got a plan to pay rent, not at market value, and end up owning the house for as little as possible. And he’s 3 blocks from the OW (currently kicked to the curb) but he can always hoover her back. As my therapist says, “The Jackass likes it convenient.”

  • Wow! The nerve! Time to reinstitute ‘no contact’, IMO.

    My ex did something funny like this after we were finally divorced and financially untangled. (Such a relief, since he is sooooo bad with money and promptly destroyed his credit I’d spent years fixing). He texted me one day saying he had something important to discuss. I bit and called him (sigh). He asked me if I would cosign with him to buy a house, lol. Unlike your ex, Rugger, mine didn’t offer me anything of value, but instead threatened that I would lose my house to his bankruptcy.

    Of course his threat was bullshit, and he continues to live in OW’s mom’s house in L.A., 50 miles away from his job and children, and with OW’s two children, three siblings and their significant others. The universe just doesn’t like him.

    • He wanted you to cosign for him to buy a house. Which he would live in with…the OW? Or would that just be a bachelor pad and he would visit OW on the weekends…? Not that it mattered since you didn’t buy into the con. SHEEESH.

  • Ruggermom, Bravo to your oldest son for kicking your ex out of the house! Why don’t you let him act as your property manager and inform the ex that his idea isn’t going to fly.

    How helpful is the ex being at his mother’s? Not very, I bet.

    As an aside, I knew a woman who let her ex come home to die of prostate cancer. They remarried before she let him move in so that the remainder of his estate (pretty large) could transfer to her upon his death. He lasted 4 months.

            • Yes, she was 100% convinced of the situation. Hauling him to Dr. appts etc. makes it pretty obvious.

              That was maybe 15 years ago now, and she’s still perking along. Pretty decent of her ex to do that really — it screwed the IRS out of a bunch of estate taxes. Can’t take it with ya.

  • RK–there was this study done, and for the life of me I can’t find it–it was about how Narcs and Spaths have a blindspot.

    It was something about a card game. That normal people can predict within reason what the next card will be, but that Narcs cannot do this.

    Meaning, that people who have NPD or sociopathy or any number of those Cluster B disorders cannot (have no ability. not that they don’t want to) properly understand or “see” the outcome of immediate choices.

    Does this give them a pass? Fuck no. It still is about RuggersMom setting her boundaries on what she will and will not tolerate.

    However, I do think that it does explain why cheaters are so stupid about their choices and their “plans”. There is no ability to foresee what the outcome of their choices truly are—or how they effect anyone else but the fantasized outcome that the cheater spools up in their head.

    Living in her basement. This guy needs his ass kicked. Again. By RuggersMom. He may not be able to learn, but at least she won’t get hoovered.

    You go, RuggersMom!!!!

    • I think you’re right. My ex just kept making one bone-headed mistake after another. And really I think his only goal was to destroy me and get everything. He just couldn’t understand how everything he attempted turned to shit. I mean, did he really think I wouldn’t defend myself? I think he thought I was so depressed I’d just give up with my tail between my legs. No such luck . . .

      • Mine too, and he always was shocked, shocked I tell you, that his grand plans always blew up in his face. Of course I’m too much of a lady to have snickered to his face, but boy did I laugh myself silly in private…….what an ass.

    • Well said, Buttercup. My rather once-intelligent stbx did some really stupid things towards the end. Either he wanted to get caught (and he seemed genuinely shocked when I did catch him) or he became very careless with his confidence. I choose the latter. Really stupid things. Like, saying he was staying in a Motel 6 on a company biz trip. Wha? This is a big co and he makes good money. Nothing added up and when I called the Motel 6, they were happy to tell me he wasn’t booked in where he said he was. Stupid is, yes, as stupid does. I look at him like an idiot now.

  • OMG – I cannot believe this. And he says it like he’s doing you a favour!

    Please please please tell me how you can keep from laughing on his face.

    He deserves a giant booby prize for biggest Narc ever!

  • Ruggermom, you are inspiring. I hope to get where you are soon.

    Your cheater on the other hand makes me sick. What psychopathic nerve! You spend three years in hell doing pick-me and do-it-yourself-private-eye-on-crazy and he wants to do you a favor of having his entitled disrespectful ass where you have rebuilt your life! I really hope you asked this question to illuminate the workings of cheater and not because you are considering this, even slightly. He deserves to have someone spit in his fathead face.

    I would even be less talky to him. He does not deserve to bask in any of your shine. My two cents is: ignore the boon, give him no energy. The farther away you can get form his dialectic the better.

    • Just re-read more carefully, “I have absolutely no intention of letting this guy move back into my house.” I love your clarity. Sorry to have not seen that before I commented.

  • This situation sort of reminds me of how my ex cheated on me, abandoned me, then asked if he could transfer a large amount from his credit card to a card in MY NAME because it had a lower interest rate. “Um, no, I think I would VERY MUCH MIND” is what I told him. What an idiot. He rips my heart out, grinds it into the floor, then asks me to do him a favor by using MY CREDIT to save himself a little money. Wouldn’t an extra $16K of debt in MY NAME have looked fabulous on my credit rating as I was trying to buy my new house? I was truly amazed he would even think I’d consider such a thing after what he’d done to me.

    • During the time our divorce was in process, I got an email from my ex asking me to file taxes as married (I had already filed as head of household), and he wanted me to take on half of the $9K he owes the IRS. He said it would “be in all of our best interests” for me to do this. He also wrote that if I didn’t pay half of his taxes, then he “didn’t see how he could pay his child support.”

      Yeah, I didn’t see how any of that was “in my best interests” either. But I sure saw how it benefited HIM. These crazy fucks are so used to manipulating and using us, they never expect us to finally wise up. It was right after this incident that I changed his name in my cell phone to “Fucking Liar Sociopath.”

      • Same deal with me and my wasband, Glad It’sOver! I couldn’t believe the balls! He calls me during that first year of our “negotiations” and says, “My accountant recommends that it’s in both of our best interests to file jointly” and I said, “Nope” and that I was planning to file as head of household and when he gave me pushback, I cut and pasted text from the IRS website that clearly indicated WHY I was entitled to do so…the idiot was sending me $400 a month, less than half of what he should’ve been, which I didn’t get until I took him to court after months of letters back and forth with ridiculous arguments on his part. No reasoning with a narcissist. My lawyer actually said at one point, “No offense, Paula, but ______is a jerk! What is he smoking?”

        Early in mediation (that lasted about two months) I offered him my $35,000 IRA as partial payment in a buyout of the house. (He’s nearly 50 and only has about $30,000 in his own IRA). He says, “I need money NOW! I don’t want money that I’ll need later.” What a doofus. Let’s see how’s he’s doing when he’s 65+ and still playing “Celebrate” and “YMCA” with wedding bands, or performing with his lame lounge act duo with the new fuck buddy Bimbo Singer – 1-900-CrackWhore.

        • Paula and GiO, you both rock!

          In my ideal settlement, STBX would give me the 50% equity from the assessed value of the home before the divorce finalizes so I could move my stuff out. I don’t want the house. I’ve run the numbers too many times, and I know I can’t afford even the refinanced mortgage. I need another $10 per year to afford it.

          On the other hand, I think that if STBX gave me $10 up front, rather than 50% of the equity, I’d take the house off his hands, then turn it around and sell it for market value.

          A normal person would recognize that it would be better to give me 50% of the assessed value, then sell the house and actually make that money back from the sale. However, STBX is not home to Mr. Normal, and could likely believe that giving me money to keep the house is in his interest.

          I know that there are probably normal, rational cheaters out there, but when I read everyone’s stories on this blog, I wonder if every cheater might not be a touch disordered!

        • What IS IT with these crazy narcs? My ex tried to do the same exact thing to me!!!! I’m a full-time student and not working right now….yet he thought we should file jointly and that I should be the one paying the taxes.

          Did I mention he makes six figures? WHAT AN IDIOT!!!!

          • It’s not idiocy. It’s entitlement. That they ask you to pay taxes when they make six figures literally translates into the following:

            1. My money is precious and needs to be used to buy special n important stuff for ME. Fuck taxes and other responsibilities .. That’s why you r there chump.

            2. Your money is shit and u can go hungry if you have to. After all you have access to my supreme awesomeness n you have to pay for it.


            • Mine intends to file bankruptcy, and if I don’t jointly as well, I get all the debts, because they will go after ME. My attorney says STBX really backed me against the wall with this.

              • Sandy R, mine DID file bankruptcy, as well as let our house foreclose. I was really scared the creditors were going to come after me, but so far, they haven’t. My attorney told me it was possible they wouldn’t bother, because the amount of money was not that big to them (although it was plenty big to ME) and they would assume that if they pursued me, I would simply file bankruptcy myself (true, I would have had no choice.)

                So sit tight, and wait to see what happens. They might not come after you for the money.

        • I really think somebody needs to do a field study to determine what degree general impulsiveness plays in various “personality disorders” and cheating.

          It’s a common complaint that cheating former spouses could not seem to anticipate some consequences well, and it’s not uncommon for the faithful spouses they betrayed to be able to work out a better divorce deal if they go into self-protection mode and begin filing for divorce quickly.

          I’d like to see a broad spectrum study on this including a Zimbardo Time Perspective Inventory to understand how well this generalization holds. Impusivity can seem exciting at first. It’s common to claim somebody who is highly narcissistic seems exciting at first. See what I mean?

          I wonder how strongly correlated the inability to forsee things in terms of Bayesian probabilities really is among cheaters and the disordered? Do compulsive gamblers cheat more? I don’t know this. The complaint about former cheating spouses being unable to forsee some pretty obvious consequences is pretty common, and it makes me wonder.

          • TimeHeals, I’d like to see that study as well. I don’t know about all of them, but my ex is EXTREMELY impulsive, has absolutely no ability to understand consequences and certainly doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes.

          • TH– that’s a *really* interesting research question…. Impulsivity often gets translated as “spontaneity”, i.e., fun!!… until , of course, it isn’t any more.

            But your larger question of the relationship between impulsivity, (rational) choice, and cluster B personality types is a fascinating one.

          • My x is also impulsive and takes everything to the extreme, regardless of consequences. Pasta for dinner? He’d eat an entire box. Going for drinks? He’d party til 9 the next morning if possible. Buying a new pair of shoes? Only the best, most expensive shoes will do! Etc.. He also reflects that back on to whomever he’s hanging out with – if you’re with him, you feel like the most special woman in his life, ever! But, that last bit is probably just him being narc-y since he’d only want to hang with the most special woman ever, I suppose.. sigh. Idiot me, I fell for that twice!

            One of the things he whined to me during our fake reconciliation was that “things with her (his ow) just got out of control and I couldn’t take it back.” Yeah, that’s precisely why you don’t start courting your coworker if you’re married! Where’d he think their initial flirting would end up going??! No ability to foresee that outcome!

            • Very interesting research question on impulsivity. I used to think that my XH was the MOST impulsive human being I’d ever known. He wanted everything he saw. He was always lusting after something new. More than willing to go into debt for anything. Even if it meant we didn’t have the last five things he had to have paid for.

              He was so fun when I met him! The kind of guy who would bring home tickets to Vegas and surprise me. Made me feel super special. Made every woman he was ever with feel the same way. That’s what Narc’s do as mentioned above. It’s because they think they’re so special they wouldn’t be with any one who they felt wasn’t.

              He never thought one thing through and it made me crazy when we were married. I always wondered what the hell was wrong with him. Now I know. I never put the two things together. The things I get from Chump Nation.

              • It’s funny you should bring up impulsivity. I was reading about that very topic today in Van Epp’s book, “How to Avoid Falling in Love With a Jerk.” Chapter 9 covers it pretty well. Basically, Cluster B’s have issues with impulsivity that can be traced back to childhood.

          • I often think of my ex as an impulsive kid who was playing with matches, then seemed surprised as hell when the house caught on fire and burned to the ground. He then turned to me and said “Look what you did.”

      • Perfect. I changed mine to “W.T.F.” in my cellphone a while back.

        For a time I had him listed as First name: “Douchebag” and Last Name: “says.” When I got a text from him, it was preceded by “Douchebag says:” It helped me to put things in perspective.

        • I recorded a sound under my sounds and assigned it to mine, it plays the stones song sympathy for the devil I had to listen to it to have it play the words just right, there is no way I can answer a call from him now

        • Great idea! I just changed my husband’s name to PACLA (Passive Aggressive Cheating Lying Asshole) Says. Now I will chuckle at every text. Thank you for the tip!

          • Y’all – My Ex’s first name is the same as my last name (I never took his name when we married) And it has pained me that the sight of his name on a text or email causes me a negative jolt, Its my own name!! And I had not thought to do this. Must get busy and edit contacts!

      • Glad, My ex tried to pull a version of this. Three months after separation and weeks before divorce decree was issued, he had run through the approximately $25,000 he got as part of divorce settlement from me. He was happily moving on and anticipating moving in with one of his OW, she had left her husband and sons and was avidly pursuing her own divorce. As an amusing aside, ex was out “cheating” on her too, picking up random women in bars like some kind of elderly out of control creepy frat boy.

        Anyhow, ex had the nerve to call me to ask if he could “borrow” money from me, just till he got his share of my profit sharing plan when he would pay me back out of that. I laughed at him and told him he was not just a liar, he was himself nothing but a lie. He hung up on me but then had to call me back because he really wanted the money and claimed he needed it to pay for his share of the household bills per the divorce agreement. I refused, checked his story, and found it was all a lie anyhow….all the bills were paid, he obviously wanted the money for one of his hair-brained schemes.

        A week after I refused, he contacted me and offered to lend me money if the children or I “needed” his “help” (we did not, it was bizarre). I asked him if he robbed a bank. I realized later he simply borrowed the money from OW.

        These guys are totally delusional, complete losers.

    • Jesus they are so damn stupid. Yes; I’ve ripped you apart . . . but will you help me get my debt paid down? Are you still mad? lol lol lol

  • My ex just made his sixth move in the past year… into an RV parked in his sister’s driveway. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if he asked to move into my basement — that is, if I had a basement. These guys are such losers, and such narcs and so clueless. Ruggermom, I am so glad you are away from that loser and living the life you deserve.

  • This is right up there with my XH telling me that he wanted to date me after the divorce. I thought that was mighty nice of him too. Of course, I wasn’t going to get rent or the ability to come and go as I pleased, so I believe that Ruggermom received a much better offer than I did … what mindfuckery these people play.

    • The other woman in my scenario actually said her husband at the time, whom she was divorcing . . . “Who knows – Maybe we can get married again later!”

  • Way to go Ruggermom, and congratulations on concentrating on living your own wonderful life, which leads to healthy meh-ness.

    For the record, and behalf of all of us, fuck that guy.

    • Thank you Chump Nation. You all rock and I am laughing my a** off.

      No worries. There is absolutely no desire to have Cake Man living in MY basement. Plus, I wouldn’t want to hear his whining of how I have/am selling his stuff that he left behind years ago.

      He had asked me to start dating him again several months ago, and admitted to still seeing the OW. And now this. I guess he really does believe he is oh, so super special.

      Cake Man can well afford to buy his own place. Not sure why he doesn’t move out of his mommy’s. I know his mom gives him heaping, helpings of kibbles. He does not pay her rent and probably does very little around the house. On the other hand, maybe he is still helping to pay for OW’s daughter to get through college, like he had been doing for the last couple of years of our M. He had been helping OW with rent, utilities, etc., also, but OW now lives and sponges off her daughter. Not sure what has happened in super, special schmoopieland, but thankfully that is not my problem any longer.

      I had received several texts asking to please respond to his basement dwelling request. I finally responded that 1) I really thought it was a joke, thus no response needed and 2) Wouldn’t it make him uncomfortable when my new man was here with me?

      What am I hearing now? CRICKETS!

      • I had received several texts asking to please respond to his basement dwelling request

        Basement dweller conjures up an interesting image. I favor renaming “Cakeman” to “Basement Dweller”. 🙂

      • They want you to do the “pick me” dance after DDay, and when you move on with someone else, they just assume that if they show renewed interest, you’ll immediately drop the new person.

        Or, as a friend’s cheater ex condescendingly told her when she started dating someone new, “I was thinking of coming back, but now that you’ve hooked up with this loser, I don’t know.”

        She looked at him like he had rocks in his head and said, “And just what makes you think you can come back?!”



      • AWESOMENESS!! Way to go Ruggermom!

        I love how not only does he have the balls to ask to live in your basement, he follows it up by hounding you with texts.

        Someone needs to be pummeled with the clue bat.

  • LMAO! It is so funny once you take off the chump handcuffs and glasses and see how utterly hysterical the cheaters are in their one track “me,myself and fantastic I” view of the world and everything in it pertaining to them really is.

    It allows me to also laugh at myself for ever thinking the cheater had any importance pertaining to me. Shit, there simply wasn’t any room left for me outside of him or for anyone else for that matter.

    Thanks CL and fellow chumps for firmly showing me what I wasn’t able to see and now finally see as very funny.

    It’s been a long hard road but so happy to finally be able to laugh at it!

    Thanks for putting a big broad smile on my face!!! It feels really good.

    • Good for you! I’m right here with you on this. Found out over this past wknd that my x (we’d been in a fake R for years, longer story..) has been sleeping with one of MY friends for several months now – and surprisingly the news didn’t make me sad but instead set me free. Finally! I woke up yesterday feeling so much lighter than I have for years. And this morning I woke myself up laughing from dreams! And I have been smiling and laughing out loud at things all day so far!

      I’m not jinxing anything by saying I’ve reached “meh” – but then again… it IS Tuesday! 😉

      Thanks CL and all of Chump Nation. I plan to spread the word about Tracy and her book and this awesome site. It’s a true life saver.

        • Thanks guys! I’m SO new at feeling good that I feel like Bambi on ice here.

          For the past 10 YEARS I’ve cried and felt half empty no matter how I tried to “stay positive” or focus on my own interests. We’ve all heard the well-intentioned advice.
          Not sure what it was in hearing that he’s lied to the extreme to my face again and this time it’s with a woman I thought was my friend – but something snapped (finally!!) and I don’t feel like crying one more tear over him. My dreams for the past 3 nights have been lighter, woke myself up laughing again this morning and have been smiling ever since. I’ve thought I was close to death from heartbreak or at least wouldn’t have cared if my life ended by accident for so many years. That’s not being dramatic – I’m sure many of you can relate to just feeling so low and duped and hurt and like “what’s it all for if I can’t even trust myself” etc…

          I hope this good feeling lasts. Either I’ve just boarded the crazy-train, or I’ve arrived at MEH.

          I will say that I still have no hate for him because that took too much energy and had figured out a while ago that it made me feel worse. I was still filled with a deep dark sadness and missed my “best friend” daily. But with this latest bit of information I finally realized my worth and that he isn’t capable of being a true friend. It’s like the smoke and mirrors have disappeared. He’d always say shit like “I care about you and love you so much – I can’t wait til we’re all 4 together again” (meaning him, me and our 2 dogs) and it would keep me stuck on him and feeling confused because I wanted to believe him while I slowly burned alone in the corner.

          Now I see that CL and others are SO right when they say don’t believe their words, but pay close attention to their actions. His actions were anything but caring and loving and I finally not only see that, but I feel it in my heart. Weird sudden shift for sure – and I’m documenting it in case I slip back into the abyss! I grab my phone and make a short video doc of myself (only for myself) each morning, talking about how I feel now, dreams, etc so I can turn to them if I ever start feeling low again. Sorry so wordy! I’m pretty surprised to feel good again I guess and want to share!!

          We’ve all endured so much pain from these liars. I wish much much happiness for all of us here.

          • Also, sorry Rugger!! My stuff is off topic on your post here.. So glad you’ve been free of feelings for your X for a while now! All the best to you 😉

          • OMG Under Construction. I woke up yesterday feeling that same way. (actually dreaming of exotic desserts) and feel the same today. (TMI – but I also pulled my wand out for a little fun I haven’t had in a while <grin) Something just 'clicked'. Well, he lied to me one too many times. And, I was able to finally shelve him. Put him up there with a label. Not sure what it will be yet, but a speciman I no longer have interest in figuring out. Maybe someday, but jeezus, I think I'm also hitting a state of pre-MEH, and damn, it feels good! You go girl!

            • Haha! Love that! Sounds like you’re having a *little* more fun than me lol but that’s so great! I’m semi-expecting that he’ll try to roll around to me again someday… but now I’m feeling so much more clear and pretty sure I’ll be able to see thru his future crap. Glad you are too, that’s awesome 🙂

  • I would just ignore his emails, calls, texts, etc. Since your children are adults, there is absolutely no reason you should be having any contact with him whatsoever. Too bad he’s missing his cake.

  • Ruggermom I could not stop laughing reading it all. I am floored myself and just the enormity of the stupidity of it.

    I don’t know, it is pretty enticing that you would be able to come and go, he won’t be putting you in the iron maiden or anything, you can come and go.

    He does realize you can come and go now and there is no exhub howling from the basement?

    Did you think that when you married him, you would one day have all this happen? I just, this is just so over the top. It must be hard for him to date having to say he lives with his mother, no sleep overs with hot sex there for him. But oh, it would be ok for you to have to listen to it, the sounds coming from your basement.

    What the hell is wrong with him, can he grow up already.

  • Oh, I just thought of a slant from his cake attitude. He could say to the women that you two are still married and have been fighting and then it could be like this hidden we have to be quite so she doesn’t know I have women in the basement. Sort of like treehouse sex with mommy and daddy in the house.

    What is with this man, what is his problem? Many women on dating sights would want him, he lives with his mom, that is such a plus, he has a twin bed, his high school things up, they can meet his mom as they go to the bedroom, see her dentures as they pee after sex.

    He has a lot going for him.

  • Instead of ignoring his emails, change your email and phone number. He has a problem, he doesn’t want to let you go. He knows that even though you are divorced, he has a right to be in your life. Of course you have to talk to him, he knows this. You have kids together, they are adults, but still you have to be in his life. He actually thinks he has a right to impose himself in your life, after all he did!

    No way, he no longer exists to you should be your attitude and your actions should show him that.

    He lives with his mother, that is his choice. Why didn’t he marry the ow? That ow replaced you, what is wrong with the ow now?

    He could write to an advise place about what to do, he could ask here.

  • As you see this triggers me, I should have done one long reply. 28 years and he is the catch of an offer to live in your basement after you drug yourself into your new life, disgusting.

  • Now see, this is just proof positive that the RIC’s 180 really DOES work!

    Ruggermom had gone out and pursued her own interests, got her own life. She was smiling and speaking nicely to him at the engagement event. She wasn’t a crying, begging, pleading hunk of misery like so many chumps. She was attractive and vital!

    And it worked! Her wannabe Basement Dweller saw the error of his ways, and will now do ANYTHING to win her back. Even paying rent to live in her basement and allowing her to come and go as she pleases. Just what every chump wants to hear.

    Too bad he’s a day late and a dollar short. Enjoy the crickets, your new life and your new man!

  • Well Ruggermon you are mighty. I am so inspired when I read stories like this. I am 19 months from my BD. I didn’t do the pick me dance, but at times I did wish he would open his eyes. I should be divorced in 6 months times. Two years in my country. I am working on me, and I am enjoying being single again after 25 years with the moron.

    I can only imagine you staring at him thinking what is he on. Talk about out there thinking. Isn’t it nice that he said he’s OK with you coming and going from your home. Perhaps the next thing he will suggest is games evening or watching movies with you and your new partner.

  • Good for you, Ruggermom. We pay good money to get rid of rats and other pests in our homes. No need to willingly let one in. We begrudgingly drag those trash bins to the curb on trash days. No need to welcome more garbage in the house.

    You paid a very high price for getting rid of that cheater. No amount of rent from him can make up for that. The guy is a certified loon. So glad you are rid of him.

  • Ruggermom, I am in a similar situation as you – five years after separation XH decides I am the love of his life and that be and I should be together again. Only difference is I had never once done the pick-me dance so there was zero reason for him to believe I wanted him back (quite frankly he was such an arse that when I found out about his cheating I was glad of the “excuse” to leave him). It took six months and a trip to joint counselling to persuade him that no meant no, so he then went into the rage stage interspersed with periods of “poor me, you’re breaking my heart”. Then out of the blue he started sending me adverts for houses where he could live with me and the kidseither in a house and granny flat situation or an upstairs/downstairs situation (cos I really want to wake up at night to see his npd face staring at me while I sleep!!). There’s no understanding how their minds work and there’s no point in trying to unravel their logic. All I do is politely continue to say no (got to be polite as we share a child and he only maintains a facade of civilised behaviour if I do). I think that one day it’ll sink in for him – I was never the pushover he assumed I was.
    Good luck to you – just keep saying no.

    • Well said Justine, your story is so encouraging. Once mine confessed I was glad for just cause to put an end to the joke the was our marriage. With out his confession of adultery I would still be trapped in a passive aggressive nightmare.

      • Sammie D – that’s IT! Now that I can really look back (and try to be realistic as possible) it was a fucking JOKE of a marriage! I am also glad now, for the confession. Not at the time of course. But now. 9 mos after 4 ddays. You will get there folks! I promise. I never thought I could climb over that mountain with no feet.

  • I’m afraid this is where my ex is heading. He’s alienated a number of our kids. One, who gets along with him, let him live at his house part time while he lived with OW part time. This didn’t end particularly well, but he did move in with OW full time. I recently received an email detailing his troubles with the OW. She’s caught him cheating, big surprise. And he had told me that she would be fine with cheating. She was so wonderful, so open-minded, ugh. Maybe she will kick him out, maybe not. Blah, blah, blah. When I read his last email, my first thought was, good grief he’s going to want to move back here. My second thought was which kid is he going to pounce on for that familial (more accurate: genetic) favor? He walked out 3 years ago after 35 years together and after 10 or so years of cheating adventures. We’ve been divorced for a year and a half. I don’t contact him at all. Now I’ve had to begin blocking his emails. No way. Just no way.

    • Actually, the kindest thing you/we can do is to let these entitled losers hit rock bottom. When that happens and their fantasy world shatters in a million pieces, there is a chance (perhaps a slim one but at least a CHANCE) that some kind of wake-up call is possible. Without a “bottoming out” experience, I suspect their distorted view of themselves and reality will never change. Why would it?

      At least that’s a possiblity with the merely selfish and entitled. I wonder what happens to real narcissists and sociopaths and personality disordered types who bottom out. Is that a strong enough experience to grab their attention? Or does it further cement their delusions that everyone else is to blame for their suffering?

      • I don’t think real narcs and sociopaths DO bottom out. That experience would require some introspection on their part, which they lack. There is no chance for a wake up call. They are idiot lemmings in search of the next shiny object . . . Just like going out and fishing for pike in the morning.

        Fuck ’em. Let them keep falling off a cliff like Wile E. Coyote.

        • Agreed 100% RK! It just is who they are and always will be, plain and simple.

          In my case my ex cheater that only lasted just under a year in my life before D Day. I saw a Casual Encounter Craigslist ad in a tab on his computer while checking my netflix account woke my ass up and then kicked him to the curb less than 2 weeks after. His reply, “I didn’t see this coming” while he was shaking like a leaf taking my apt. keys off of his key chain. LOL. All that meant was he wasn’t prepared and didn’t have his steady back up chump in line yet, he found one 3 weeks later.

          It then took 6 months more before I put an end to his trying to contact me either directly or via other people, (my friends). That’s when I finally went firmly NC for good and that’s when my healing really started.

          In his case, he was divorced 11 years from his one wife when we met and 2 out of 3 immed. family members cut him out of their lives completely, his ex wife and his son. His daughter shows no respect but keeps him marginally in her life and accepts small gifts of money he sends her while she is in college. Kind of reminds me of the toothpaste commercial where they say 2 out of 3 Dentists recommend. Ha!

          I had many glaring red flags presented to me right from the start but since I had not experienced this kind of crazy before didn’t put it all together until D Day when it was in my face in black and white. Then my first instinct was run like the wind. Even then I waited a week and a half more before I was solid in my decision.

          My short timeline of experience with this insanity without being married or having kids still took me a year and 5 months to fully and firmly get to meh . Therapy for 3 months while experiencing initial PTSD which stopped after about 6months. I was terrified about having been given any STD’s for a year while I waited for 2 sets of STD test results from my gyno giving me clearance. Thankfully that didn’t become an issue for me.

        • Rumblekitty is right. Truly disordered do not hit rock bottom, because they are not ever able to accept responsibility for their actions, learn anything from their mistakes, understand that their own mistakes led to their downfall or stop themselves from blaming everyone ELSE for their OWN misdeeds.

          My ex is a shining example. Any normal person would say he’s pretty much bouncing off the bottom for the past couple years. He himself, however, still considers himself to be incredibly inspiring, very motivational and still destined to be famous and “stamp out bullying”. It seems like the lower he gets, the crazier he becomes. I used to think he would “snap out of it” eventually, and go back to being a somewhat normal guy working a regular job and leading a somewhat normal life. I no longer think that is likely at all.

      • Looking for wisdom, If I may, I can answer your question. I was a serial cheater, narc, socio, histrio, asshole, dirtbag. My inclination from a very young age was to consume, but never give. Shitty childhood… blah blah blah. Mommy didn’t love me… blah blah blah. Combat PTSD… blah blah blah. Excuses used to validate being a user, consumer, remorseless destroyer of people. After my chump/angel had enough and I was faced with what was once a vibrant, beautiful, loving, caring angel. I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity. I looked hard at her and saw the hurt and devostation.

        I had my Come To Jesus moment and hit bottom when I tried to end it (another selfish narc, socio dick move). No more excuses. No more shameshifting. No more gaslighting. I own my it all. Every last disgusting detail. I ask for nothing and am not entitled to shit. My comfort is not even on the radar. She is now caught somewhere between “I love you” and “Fuck you dirtbag, I hate you”. I do as she says. When she wants me to get out. I get out. I have slept in my car more than once. When she wants me to be close. I am there. Haha the only part that confuses me is when she tells me to “Get the fuck out” and then gets angry at me for leaving. Seriously though, I know it’s because she has zero trust and is unsure of my actions when I am not directly in front of her. I started therapy and read every day. I will care for her until she no longer wants it or until I die. She is too good to abandon. I hope one day she chooses me again, but I know I don’t deserve her.

        The most important thing I do to not be the cheating, lying, narc, dirtbag I am so accustomed to being is prayer. I spend a lot of time on my knees humbling myself before the Father. Jesus said, “He who humbles himself will be praised and he who praises himself will be humbled”. Every morning I wake up, get on my knees, and pray “Have mercy on me Father, for I am a sinner”.

        More than once I have gotten on my knees and groveled at her feet. I begged her to forgive me. She is still not ready and may never be ready. Never the less I will still be there for her. She thinks I am just changing tactics, evolving my manipulation. I created this mess and I have to face the consequences because every day she faces consequences for things she didn’t do. She is innocent and has done nothing wrong except fall in love with a toxic person.

        I understand that I am probably going to get slammed by the masses for posting in a recovery forum, but I use this forum too as an in my face tool to see the devostation of betrayal and cheating.

        • Dude . . . In my experience, nobody is a FORMER serial cheater, narc, socio, histrio, asshole, dirtbag. She doesn’t trust you and there’s a good reason for that. You have proven yourself untrustworthy. You are your actions.

          You’re doing typical cheater shit . . . . me me me me me, I had a bad childhood, my mommy didn’t love me, FEED MEEEEE! You fuck her over and now you’re love-bombing her because she sees you for what you are.

          Personally, I think you’d be better off taking your dog and pony show to SI Wayward Spouses forums. You can sit around with other narcs and talk about how special, sparkly and misunderstood you are.

          • Rumblekitty, I see your point ad did not expect a warm welcome. I just thought I would take a chance and try to answer Looking for wisdom’s question. I know what I did and am very honest about why I did it. I was trying to explain that if a cheater gets brutally honest and dispenses wiith ALL excuses, (i.e., bad childhood, etc.) gets humble, and OWNS it, there is a chance of reconciliation. I am not love-bombing her. I am humbly at her disposal for whatever she needs. ANYTHING she needs. After all, I am the reason she is devostated in the first place. It’s up to me to be there for her to whatever end and expect nothing from her. You are correct. All she sees at this point is a liar, cheater, and family destroyer. I did it. I own it. Now it’s time to man up and give without any thought of receiving.

            • You’re a prince I’m sure. And a fucking hero for admitting you’ve been a douche bag to someone who didn’t deserve it.

              Here’s a bitch cookie.

              • Rumblekitty, this shitbag is a perfect example of why reconciliation with cheater narcs are punishments for chumps. He is not receiving from her only giving. Right! A lying asshole who can’t stand that he won’t get anymore cake. Jesus take this guy down. Rats are more honest than this worthless mindfucker.

            • If you are as your name says Truly Remorseful, then I wish you well. As an optimist I want to believe there is hope for all people to change, even the most pathologically disordered, but I know it’s the rare person who can face a rock bottom “come to Jesus moment” and be driven to his knees in repentance and accept the pain instead of running away. If you are one of those rare people, I commend you.

              • Oh Lord the kibbles. Delicious!! nom nom nom nom . . .

                Yes FORMER serial cheater, narc, socio, histrio, asshole, dirtbag haz the sads now. Give me a fucking break.

              • Thank you all for your comments and perspective. I expected you to be brutal. Like I mentioned before, I will do anything to make it right. Even jump into a shark tank full of angry people to gain better knowledge of how you all recovered. I OWE her that until she either kicks me to the curb or wants to reconcile. Either way I will stay humble and on my knees. Thank you CL for this resource.

              • Thank you so much for exposing your unicorn horn to the Chumplings. How kind of you to give us a peek into the mind of the disordered, you know how we all obsess over that and want to know what makes you fuckers tick.

                Here’s the thing though, on THIS site, we don’t snuggle up with narcs and believe that this time will be different and OH LOOK I’ve CHANGED! Nobody gives a fuck. You are your behavior. A serial cheating lying narc will always remain a serial cheating lying narc. You want sympathy for your pathetic choices? You can visit SI or TAM and they will pull up a chair and tell you how awesome you already think you are. But here, I wouldn’t expect that horns will blow and confetti be tossed because SWEET JESUS HE’S SEEN THE LIGHT! I call bullshit. And I think the words that come out of your face are bullshit.

            • TR, my opinion is if you’re truly sorry and you love this person — let her go. You’ve done the damage and you destroyed the relationship. Recognizing that and fixing yourself without the benefit of her love or attention is where the real remorse comes in. It’s not enough to “own” it — you have to live it.

              Maybe you can go on in other relationships to not be a user. I don’t know. If you’re truly without empathy — you’re probably wired that way. But even I hope for unicorns. I just think when you cheat, you’ve killed THAT relationship — if you can move forward and not cheat again and be an entitled ass again — great.

              FWIW, I got many similar over the top apologies of the sort you are writing right now. How I didn’t deserve it, what an angel I was, how very sorry he was. And I fell for it, over and over — and I got played.

              Look, you might mean it, you might be a practiced con. I don’t know. But IMO you’ve got serious years of therapy issues, and you’re not relationship material now. So let this poor woman go. Jesus is great, but Jesus doesn’t make you all better overnight. It’s a long haul and it’s about your actions.

              GIVE her a settlement. Let her GO. That tells me you’re sorry more than anything you can write here.

          • He admitted to cheating, lying and using because he had a JESUS MOMENT! So how can we believe anyone who says “I used to lie”.? But the question has little to do with redemption and how to know what to believe.. Someone who was perfectly capable of cheating, using, lying for a long period of time is capable of all of that again, specially lying…he has proven that …whether NOW he is capable of being truthful is unknown.

            So that is why his “current truth” isn’t valuable…

            IMO the earlier lying is what makes the current truth questionable…but if I was her, I rather swim with sharks in a pool than to believe anything that comes out of this losers mouth!

        • Do you hear that? Yep I sure do..Oh the violins..

          lets see, you loved her, cared for her and she was your angel, but you used/exploited, cheated and lied to her. A person who truly loves someone cant use, exploit, cheat and lie to that person. Honestly, who the fuck are you kidding?? My bet is you realized you couldn’t find someone better than her in any way so you want her and what you had back. She loves you=she doesn’t cheat, you love her=you cheat, lie and use. What am I missing?!?! IMO if she ever takes you back ( hope she kicks your worthless ass for good!!) and as soon as another opportunity represent itself you will cheat, lie and continue wtf you have been doing! You are a cheating, lying, narc, manipulative dirtbag and always will be!

          • Nicolette . . . thank you!

            Fuck! “TrulyRemorseful” don’t peddle your I’m so sorry bullshit here. If you were a man of substance, you wouldn’t have fucked over your wife repeatedly, period. You’re not remorseful; I’d wager you don’t have a back up plan and are showing your wife all your heartfelt posts on the Chumplady site. Please. Fuck off. Fuck off hard. Go to another site that believes this bullshit.

        • TR, here are 5 easy steps to actual remorse:
          – Tell her she doesn’t deserve your BS anymore.
          – Point her toward this site.
          – Buy her CL’s new book.
          – THEN PROMPTLY LEAVE and DO NOT try to contact her, ever.
          – Let the woman heal and find someone truthful and kind. (hint – it’s NOT YOU!)

          • Damn right!
            . . . Coming over here like it’s SI and we’re gonna sing “Kum ba yah” and shit . . .

            I iz so sorry I have mommy issues and felt entitled to fuck over my wife. Pity me.

            Fuck off.

            • This is really bugging me! Have you all noticed he said “She is too good to abandon.” Of course she is!!! Since she is able to kick him out of the house whenever and the poor fuck slept in his car, that tells me it’s her house, her money, and since Mr consumer/user/mooch/dirtbag/cheating liar had nowhere else to go, like a backup chump, who will let him stay at her house and deplete her food for free so he is groveling ( insert rolling eyes here) . I am sure he looked and he realized there are no other chumps who would let him live the good life on their dime and put up with his shit, so he is sticking around to consume/use/mooch some more.

              Chumpectomy, he need to be massively neutered!

          • You can tell this clown is the biggest user. First he makes fun of this chump throwing him out then angry at him for leaving—to all of us. What a mindfucking piece of shit. But Seriously Folks….learn some respect shithead. You’re the nutjob not her….asshole. THEN he lies about not getting anything out of relationship with this chump. Right! What he is getting is making her crazy. Showing how powerful he is to still strong her around (see statement above). He also gets to play with sharks like us. Whose your shark daddy now Mr. blameshifty mindfuck? . Jesus doesn’t like crazy making mindfucking liars. Get out of her life and stay away from all living things. You need to be massively recalled.

            • This is one of my personal fav’s from his BS posts:

              TR wrote: “Jesus said, “He who humbles himself will be praised and he who praises himself will be humbled”. Every morning I wake up, get on my knees, and pray “Have mercy on me Father, for I am a sinner”.”

              Lol… trying to get bitch cookies and high praise from Jesus and God itself! Seems like still a lot of self-praise going on! Lol. Keep it moving, folks.. no remorse here.

              • Here’s how you know he’s full of shit. He said, and I quote, ” I will do anything to make it right. Even jump into a shark tank full of angry people to gain better knowledge of how you all recovered. I OWE her that until she either kicks me to the curb or wants to reconcile.”

                I OWE her that until she either kicks me to the curb or wants to reconcile.

                Read that? UNTIL. That means if she hops off the fence, he moves on, and God help her if she DOES reconcile because he’ll be the same asshole he was before. Thus, we have the typical pattern of the disordered.

                So original.

              • Yup. And that quote also lumps betrayed people together as a “shark tank full of ANGRY people” – if he truly felt a remorseful connection with his wife, he wouldn’t be putting the negatives on her role in his mess.

                And the bit about using this site to try to figure out “how you all recovered” – uh, as he can read, many here feel like there’s not a recovery from this level of ultimate betrayal! We’re learning how to trust ourselves again to be able to detect BS and avoid future pain here. By wedging his way into that process for his wife, he’s keeping her stuck and unable to properly heal. That’s a selfish move on his part.

                Plus I’ll go ahead and just say it – I got the creepy feeling that he’s reading here to try to figure out the best way to lie and get her to believe it, for his sake! Which honestly pisses me right off!

                Seems like majority of us here have the enormous fear/concern that we may not be able to fully trust our judgement. He’s pretty much admitting that he doesn’t care about the fact that he’s the one with the untrustworthy personality and HE should not be allowed in a relationship until many years of therapy. How does he think that he won’t do the same again just because he’s praying now?!

                Damn, already!! Annnyywaaaayyy…

              • Word. UnderConstruction you speak the truth. Power to you and all the chump voices here. This trolling cheater is using this blog so he can mindfuck the chump that he is torturing. There’s your wisdom TR or whatever your real name is. You’re a criminal. Stealing knowledge and a life to eat cake. I guess you saw the title cake man and came running. Recognized yourself right away did you? Read carefully. It will take you at least 50 years to begin to comprehend.

              • UC – I agree! And it’s obvious he’s sniffing for kibbles. I was a bad boy, but now I see the error in my ways. Look how noble I am. Look how I “grovel” for forgiveness. Fuck that. He doesn’t have some dumbass in the background to fall back on . . . That’s all this is. Dumbfuck has to get his kibbles some way, so why not post on the Chumplady site.

                Dude – do your wife and family a favor move on. I’m all for believing people can change, but serial cheaters and liars . . . They don’t change. Not ever. Sorry, but it’s true. Character ; either you have it or you don’t. If you have a “habit” of “consuming”, well that’s just who you are.

                You want back pats for allegedly turning into a completely different guy than you’ve always been? Go to SI. That’s the site for you.

              • Yeah that’s how I read it too.
                “Let me test out my newfound supposed remorse lines on these other betrayed people and see if they buy it, then I’ll know what to feed my wife…”

                If you love your wife, TR, just explain that you can’t be trusted with anyone’s heart right now and wish her well, and go start on your own road to recovery if that’s possible. If you do enter another relationship in the years ahead (with someone else) don’t forget to tell them about your past so they’ll get to choose whether or not to take that enormous risk.

                You need individual help right now from a therapist, TR, and your wife needs to go no contact. If you read around here like you say you do, you’ll know that most of us here have said that the healing didn’t begin until we were able to go no contact for many months. Give your angel wife that gift. You need to admit to yourself that you aren’t to be trusted and go get help for that.

                BTW, I got called “my angel” as well… huh, 9 years later he’s boinking my friends.

  • Great stories today.

    I wish these folks would do a video of how to get unwanted Exes out of the basement… I think the same strategy would certainly do the trick!

    PS did anyone pick up on the post from a chump name ME who is living in her car, quite destitute? It’s near the top…

  • Just had the argument yesterday with the xW. Our daughter’s athletic team qualified for a prestigious regional tournament. I told the xW what I had in mind: I’ll just take her myself and deal with the whole thing. A 7 hour drive each way, have to stay for about a week all told. A mix of waiting around and chauffeuring teenagers to various venues. Not really my idea of a fun time, but that’s parenthood at times.

    The xW couldn’t understand why I wasn’t willing to make a “family trip” out of it, or to let her stay in my room! Shit, how about the fact that we’re divorced (and the fact that she so much needed divorcing at the time)!

    Or how about all the family trips she spoiled back in the good old days with her low threshold of boredom, angry outbursts, and all-too-obvious “secret” communications with mystery persons?

    “No. This isn’t even a trip for fun. What down time D has, she’ll be tired anyway. When I don’t have to run her around, I can have some peace and quiet. I don’t have to make adjustments for you or anybody else, and I’m not going to. If you want to go, figure it out for yourself, and get your own accommodations.”

    • Seriously, what is it with these people?!? My xH just yesterday asked if we were going to take our annual summer trip to the beach. We’ve been divorced for 3 months…there is no “our” anymore, you dumb ass!!!!

      My oldest daughter, 15, laughed and told him we’ve planned our summer vacay, without him. We leave tomorrow.

  • Wow! Reality check. After a week’s hiatus from Chump Lady (due to a few un-inspiring posts lately), I found myself listening to Whitney Houston’s ‘I Will Always Love you” clips on you tube. I immediately shut down and clicked onto CL. It is easy to drift back to unicorn land. Whew, back to reality. Breathe. Slow breaths, CL is back!

  • Love it! No tag backs……
    When D day happened for me.
    I picked up the phone and actually called his Mother and while he sat there I said to her….”You can have him back!” and she replied, “Where is is suppose to live?”
    I told her…” I don’t really care, he can stay with you, he can take up space in his office, he can live in his car for all I care! If you don’t want him then it’s problem isn’t it?” Silence, and then I handed the phone over to him. Gave him a suitcase and started handing him his belongings. I couldn’t get him out of the house fast enough. Other than for a split second one week later when he returned something and I caught him running to his car after he lobbed it in between the doors. I have not laid eyes on the Idiot since. NC is the only way to go and stay…..I seriously cannot believe these imbeciles. What a bunch of shit! I sure hope she laughed long and hard at him…..By the way, Mommy and Daddy took him in for 6 months and then showed him the door. Brother then took him in for 3 months and then showed him the door. Now he is living with Prostitute friend and her husband and 5 kids. Sucks to be him….I know this via my one daughter who is the only one out of three speaking to him anymore. And she says she does it because she feels sorry for him. What do ya do?

    • I commend you on your ability to purge the idiot from your life with purpose. 🙂 That’s pretty awesome!

      • Thanks Rumblekitty….it isn’t easy. But totally necessary! 16 months out and I still cry most days….these jerks have no clue the devastation they leave us with. I will survive! as I hope each and everyone here does as well. So much support here. By the way this was actually the second D day 14 years after the first one where I took him back with 2 young children and an 18 year old. I did it out of desperation. If I could take it back and do it over. I would have left him then.

        • Just keep moving forward. It still hurts, but you can do it. I don’t cry much anymore, but occasionally it will still hit me. I’d still rather be free of that asshole than live a life with him not knowing what he really was. You’ll be just fine too.

          • Happily, I also wish I had done what you did-kick him to the curb immediately.

            A year post D-day (while I stupidly thought we were in R) I took care of his father with Alzheimers. I bathed him, fed him, exercised him, took him to doctors appointments for a year before his death. His mother is legally blind, so I was also taking her to appointments, helping with yard work, grocery shopping, etc. You name it, I did it gladly.

            A year pre D-day, my EX was close to death with bone cancer. 2 bone marrow transplants later while I kept his parents, our children, the family home running while spending time in hospital with him, he has physically recovered.

            I was blamed for his cheating because I was not contributing financially to the family. I should have been working a full time job in my chosen field, instead of having a lower paying part-time job. Funny, no one offered to pay me for taking care of his parents.

            My point is, I guess, that with his cancer, taking care of his parents and a very difficult BD, I was beaten down. I literally was a heap on the floor, with several weekends spent on the phone with my psychiatrist. I didn’t have the stamina? strength? wherewithal? to kick him to the curb. And thank God for my oldest son who stepped in to be the man in the family. Both of my boys (young men) have been the true blessing in all of this.

            Like RK said, we all, in time WILL be fine.

            • Wow Ruggermom look at all you did for that man!
              Look at how he treated you!
              Why are we the ones who have to suffer the shame of their selfish actions?
              You are amazing!
              You stuck with it, because that’s who you are!
              A selfless person trying to make a difference.
              Doing what any gracious person would do for family.
              His loss…..
              Hope your life with your new Love is wonderful and Chump free!
              Thank you for your kind words.
              I know I will survive. this past week has been really tough for some reason.
              But I know it will pass. It always does.

        • It’s that these fuckers don’t change! So great that you’re free of him now. Mourning the loss of everything your kind heart had try to rebuild truly sucks. I did it too, for 9 years. And I also wish I’d have never believed his lies the 2nd time around. One of these days you’re heart will stop hurting for him and all that he stole. Wishing you full peace from this jerk very soon! He’s so not worth your time.

  • Ruggermom, go Rugger, go Rugger, go Rugger! Yes!

    What’s that yummy smell. Ahhhhhh. Revenge. It’s sweet revenge.

    CL, OMG, I am so loving “raccoons are always cool with you “coming and going as you please,” “the comings and goings of a grown-ass man.”, and “from all of us at Chump Nation to fuck off.” This is a language I can understand.

  • I would love to be a fly on the wall when Ruggermom has the conversation with her ex in which she says FUCK NO!!!!!!

    • MM,

      I didn’t tell him FUCK NO. I merely pointed out that I was dating, and wouldn’t he be uncomfortable when my new man was spending time with me in MY house? Hehe

      All I have heard since then is crickets!

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