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The Cure for Cheating — Plastic Surgery? WTF?

As long as we’re blaming the victim, did any one catch this wing nut Louise Van Der Velde who claims that women should have plastic surgery to stay attractive to men? Because if you don’t, he’s going to wander — and It’s All Your Fault!

According to the Daily Mail (which never ceases to give me crazy cheater stories)…

Louise was on the ITV programme to discuss comments she had made to MailOnline last week, where she claimed that women in their forties should get plastic surgery or face their partner running off with a younger model. 

Louise, who runs a relationship therapy centre in central London, believes ladies only have themselves to blame if their husband starts to find other women more attractive.

Don’t worry, chumps. Louise isn’t a real therapist, she just likes to think of herself as one. Apparently, that’s enough to get you on national media. Her credentials are “Tantric sex teacher” and expert training in “Emotional Freedom Technique,” a form of energy healing discredited by scientists (you know, those un-sexy people with actual credentials).

Louise told MailOnline last week: ‘I think for the people who do want to have a monogamous relationship – the women are very quick to point the finger.

‘They say that their husband is messing about and he’s left them for someone else, but I think it is absolutely the woman’s responsibility when they have let themselves go over the years.

‘We are the creators of our own destiny, if your fella cheats, you’ve created it yourself.

‘The men have a right to look elsewhere, they have a right to be sleeping with an attractive woman.’

Is anyone else getting tired of making the same damn arguments? Christie Brinkley, Hale Berry, Eva Longoria — many exquisitely beautiful woman are cheated on. I’m sure we could also get a show of hands from chumps everywhere on how the affair partner was a huge trade DOWN, by all superficial measures — height, weight, age, income. Sure, there are cheaters who go for the silicon Barbie doll look (I’m talking to you, sex addicts) — but those people are generally paying customers. And of course, even the most good-looking affair partner still has shit for character.

Steering clear of cakes and keeping in shape with regular visits to the gym is not enough though – Louise thinks that women should start to have breast augmentation, liposuction, fillers and the rest as soon as parts of the body start to sag. 

She said: ‘A lot of my female clients in their forties and fifties come in and they’re unhappy that their husbands are playing away but they’ve let themselves go.  

‘But no one’s really happy with themselves when they are overweight and not looking good.

‘Even when you buy a new dress you feel good – looking good is feeling good.

‘I actively encourage my clients to get plastic surgery and it’s received fairly well.

Boy, I shouldn’t have eaten that cupcake. I didn’t steer clear of enough cake, that’s why he cheated! For the record, my cheater gained about 60 pounds after we were married. Is sociopathy caloric?

Van Der Velde attacked the women on the ITV panel for being hypocrites who really actually DO care about their appearance.

Yeah, how dare you argue for respectful treatment in relationships — YOU WEAR LIPSTICK TOO! Why couldn’t someone make the obvious point that a lack of lipstick or a saggy ass didn’t make him cheat? Of course we all want to look our best, but neither our flaws nor our attributes COMPEL people to abuse us. That’s on THEM and their shit character.

But clearly we’re not dealing with a great intellect here.

‘I decided that in my fortieth year I wanted to be the fittest I’ve ever been, so I had my boobs done.”

Hey Louise, I have a plastic surgery suggestion — a brain implant.

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  • Actually, she’s right! I am in the process of having an ugly, painful, narcissistic lump surgically removed from me, and I’m much happier already! *snigger*

  • So…I should not eat to be healthy and for longevity and self care, but should have myself sliced and put back together like a cockeyed fembot so my 300 pound lop gutted stealer of souls cab continue to eat piles of bacon and chips, wear wrinkled untucked shirts and not shave for job interviews. And complain bitterly about the spouse and employer who put up with his mediocre half assed spoiled baby bullshit.

    Um, no thanks,I’ll stick to eatng vegetables, using a nice moisturizer, swimming and hiking, and being able to look others in the eye without shame.

  • My cheater used this as an excuse too. I birthed 5 children for him in less than 10 years. He was no longer happy with my body and felt I had let myself go.Of course my ability to take care of myself had nothing to do with taking care of little people all day or dealing with extreme anxiety and depression courtesy of his abuse, but I digress.

    Plenty of people out there with saggy boobs and what not, but their partners don’t cheat on them. Why? They are descent people who see beyond imperfections that we ALL have, including cheaters. Yeah, that’s right cheaters, last I checked, you get old and wrinkly too. Then when you get cheated on, you’ll deserve it. Enjoy! 🙂

  • I am going to state the obvious here…….everyone ages! Louise is so superficial and will likely become extremely disappointed later in life. No amount of plastic surgery is going to help her when she is 70.

    I have aged really well. I am 47 and am often told I look 30. Nothing is sagging yet, no wrinkles, I run and am physically active, I am not bad to look at, I am smart….I could go on here and list all of my many wonderful attributes but I will spare you……….I WAS STILL CHEATED ON!!!!! Plastic surgery would not have stopped him. IT WAS ALL ABOUT HIM!!!!!

    Marriage is about so much more than looks and sex. Eventually the passage of years takes those things away from us all. Marriage has to be about way more than those things or you will be very disappointed just like Louise here.

    I hope to remarry one day and I am counting on so much more than good looks and sex!!!!

  • Thank God for you CL – some of us chumps are so beaten down by our exes that they would believe this drivel. But you step up to bat for us and rip her ridiculous assertions to shreds. Thank you for that.

  • I was the skinniest I had been since high school when my X cheated. Like single digit size. Always dressed nice. He would gleefully tell me that his friends/co-workers would talk about that his wife was hot. His much younger AP (she got me there!) was described by a friend of mine as “she looks like a goth meth addict.” That statement is probably true in more ways than one.

    I would also point out that he definitely let himself go over the years (and since the divorce. His outside definitely matches his inside now.) According to this writer, I should have been the one cheating. Or does it not work that way according to her, men can just look however and women need to stay looking young and hot?

  • Cheating certainly isn’t about looks, nor is it even about sex, as my Cheater himself informed me, on the night of DDay, “Margaret, it’s not like she stuck her big tits in my face or wagged her pussy at me!” (angrily snarled at me). See how much deeper and more spiritual he is/was than me? I was so superficial for not seeing their deep spiritual connection! and how she valued him as a person and “saw the lost little boy in him.” (actual quotes)

    Though it “just happened”, he wasn’t “developing feelings for her,” and “she was all over [him] like a train wreck,” and he was “defending Us against Her.” But he was the deep one… and I was the superficial, base, vulgar, crass person whose superficiality was revealed by me being “jealous”because I found out that he chose to fuck another woman secretly behind my back for a year, and it turned out she was not the first. How superficial of me!

      • Well, she is about six inches taller than him (thanks private investigators, many laughs were produced by watching her pull him by the arm into the restaurant together; I guess that was her version of “holding hands.”) But yes, I did expect him to be a man. Found out he wasn’t. 😉

  • ‘They say that their husband is messing about and he’s left them for someone else, but I think it is absolutely the woman’s responsibility when they have let themselves go over the years.”

    This is the kind of stuff I was raised on in the early 60’s in the south. If your husband wanders, it’s your fault. In fact the entire relationship is basically your responsibility. It’s up to you to keep them interested, and if you let yourself go, poof, they’re gone! You better not age either. Now, he can go bald and get a belly but you better stay perpetually young.

    It’s so sad that I didn’t get the message that relationships take two equally committed people to make them work when I was young. I turned myself inside out trying to make my marriage work, and what I really needed to do was focus on myself instead of him. I could have developed my own interests and made myself happy, then I could have looked for someone equally as happy in themselves. Oh well, live and learn.

    The discussion on blaming yesterday was interesting and I have to admit I still carry guilt for things I could have done better. However, because of CL, I no longer take the blame for his infidelity. I’ve come to the realization that our marriage couldn’t work because we couldn’t talk to each other. I pressed and pressed for my husband to open up, I even told him he was like a fortress I couldn’t break into. He would talk about work and sports, but never about feelings no matter how much I asked. In the end, he blamed me for not knowing how he felt.

    • Lyn, my marriage was a lesson in futility. It’s not because we could not communicate…. It’s because he wouldn’t. He chose not to because he was less than honorable and had secrets. He was always headed down that slippery slope. My ex seemed driven to make decisions that fed his selfish needs and those were his priorities. Our marriage, our life together, our children, his legacy. Nothing mattered more than his ego and then ultimately new pussy. When I met his father for the first time we were looking at old family photos and when his son left the room he said, ” A hard dick has no conscience.” I get it now. That man never changed and in our years together it became more and more impossible to ignore. His actions were hurtful and consistent with someone who was incapable of loving anybody else. It did not matter who I was or what I did and ultimately I had no power to save my marriage. You can’t fix “broken.”

      • ”A hard dick has no conscience.” OMG. That one sentence nails it. All my begging, doing the pick me dance, crying, trying to be so AVAILABLE. I could never compete with the thousnds of images he looked at and whacked off to. Hours and hours of perusing filthy images while his family slept. He has no empathy either. He is only sad because finally,after 8 years and countless D days I kicked his smarmy ass out. Protection order in place and NC. It is the best I’ve felt in years. He wrecked me financially, left my house with unfinished house repairs, moved money so I could not touch it, but not having the stress of him here has been the best thing for me. He told me that this happened to me because I am weak. And predators go after the weak. Well, I’m not the one living in an RV assclown. Hows that for weak?????

          • I can sympathize Irish. My stbx loves the underage girls and massage parlor hookers. How the fvck am I suposed to compete or get plastic surgery to compete with that according to Louise?

            I have 2 words for Louise and they are not happy birthday!

            I was 28 when I met stbx. I was attractive, in shape, and never had a problem getting dates. The only thing attractive about stbx was his (fake) personality & he was very fit. I was not attracted to his looks. I thought he was a nice guy……. I guess the joke was on me years later when I finally figure out he’s a raging cheater narcissist with a porn/hooker addiction and Madonna/whore syndrome.

            There is no amount of plastic surgery that I could do to transform me into what that fucktards wants NOR would I want to do it!

            My parents were mad because they thought I married down. My mom especially. Turns out she was right. My poor dad must be rolling over in his grave.

            Stbx has tried to devalue me in every way possible because I am not what he wants but I still get offers. I just turned 46 but am often told I look like I’m in my 30’s. I just started back to work & even though im not looking at all-there is a really cute younger guy who keeps asking me out. Guess I’m not so bad after all.

            F. U. Louise whatever your name is

            • My mother-in-law would always tell me to look pretty for her boy because he is so good looking and a huge catch and if I did not hold on to him tight enough then other women would snatch him up in a heartbeat. Wow! she was right I was just not good enough for her darling little boy. He so deserves the Barbie doll fake person to match his personality.

            • So true that it was NOT at all about looks … I am so much better looking, fitter more stylish and healthy than my stupid cheater – he was punching way above his weight when he met and married me – and guess what …trusting soul that I am I fell for his charm and bullshit.

              Faithfulness has little to do with looks – its all about kibbles …..ego and variety for the cheater. In fact it is these the case that NPD often choose very attractive, clever and respectable life partners ….because they feel it makes the stupid cheater look good – they then fool around with anything dirty tart they can get their hands no matter what they look like.

              So REMEMBER chumps you were pursued by these dead shits BECAUSE you are so FUCKING FABULOUS …. never forget that ….they just are too stupid and lazy to be able to keep up with us

              Can I have an AMEN for Fabulousness Chumps ??????

        • Wow what is it them telling us that we are weak? Mine told me I was a weak sheep and easy picking for predators. He said he didn’t respect me for that, but in reality it was only my love for him that was my weakness (the sparkle, the fix it hat) and I am very strong.

          I also learned every time I speckled I was more of a weak sheep to him. The irony.

          • I believe my ex saw my sensitivity and compassion as weakness. He also thought I was weak because I didn”t stand up to him, he even pushed me away once and told me to get a backbone. By that time I was so demoralized I hardly reacted. That’s about the time I believe his EA had just started because he was being especially grouchy. We’d sit at a restaurant and I’d try to engage him in conversation while he stared at sports on TV. If I asked him to please look at me, he’d bellow “I heard everything you said.” Then he’d repeat what I said while still staring at the TV. So much for conversation. I used to watch his mom do the same with his dad. The way she coped was to answer her own questions and carry on a conversation with herself. I just couldn’t do that. That’s why I was absolutely flabbergasted to find hours of conversation on cell phone records between my ex and OW. I didn’t think he was capable of carrying on a conversation like that.

            • Bottom line, whatever the cheater liked about you in the beginning, they purport to despise when the blame game starts. My ex had an affair with a woman who acted helpless, she needed him, I was too strong, too aggressive. It’s all bullshit based on their own foo issues.

              • They do have a playbook, don’t they, and are masters of deflection. My cheater said his first wife was too meek & mild, and that’s why he cheated on her massively. Then, I became too aggressive, so the sweet, young thing he fucked was appealing because she was so gentle and sweet to him. My response was, “You mean, sweet like I was before I married your critical, power-oriented ass?”

  • Naturally I’m feeling old and saggy now that I’ve seen my husband’s girlfriend, who is 30 if she’s a day. But, if I may modify the wise words of the great bard Taylor Swift, “Cheaters gonna cheat, cheat, cheat, cheat, cheat.”

    We can know that our looks or age didn’t make them cheat but it’s still really hard not to feel less than. This is one aspect of society that just sucks, and (sorry male chumps here), is one area where women generally have it harder. It sucks.

    What made my husband cheat was the fact that I was now out of money and having a nervous breakdown over it. Oh, plus he’s a dick.

  • Too bad we couldn’t post pictures here. If you kids could see a pictures of Skank Woman and me you’d blow your cheerios all over the place. She is beyond hideous. I’d say that if I never met here, but way more kindly. I honestly can’t believe he fucks that thing and I’ve so much as said that to him. Talk about a double bagger. It just shows me what a loser he is. I know for a fact he has to get the giant jar of Viagra out for her.
    Never needed it with me. Hahaha~!

    I’ve aged well too. I recently went to a new doctor and she couldn’t believe my age. She even got up close to peer at my face to see if I had had a face lift. Good genes. I have long blonde curly hair like CL that drives men crazy. My XH calls frequently. I only answer if he’s sending me $$$.

    • Syringa, My stbx had to start taking Viagra when he started dating the fucktart. Sometimes, when I need a laugh, I think about it and remind myself that he never needed that shit with me! Haha!!

    • I was a nice looking woman by all accounts (until the experience aged me 127 years), educated with a good job, and I he threw that away for numerous skanks, one of which looked like she crawled out from under a bottle of black hair dye.

      Cheaters cheat because they’re cheaters….any ole double bagger will do.

  • Obsession with appearance is pervasive in our society. We are all convinced that we “must” improve on our appearance by many, many commercials every day. Personally, I think there is a big difference in maintaining and enhancing what you have with moisturizer and maybe lipstick and mascara, and throwing yourself on the plastic surgeons table. But whatever you choose to do, for your own reasons, should be your choice, and not because someone has told you to conform to someone’s else’s standard of beauty, or that you “must” do it to stay attractive for “your man.” I do have my own little ritual for beauty and to maintain my health and well being, but I do it for myself — not to attract and cater to some man’s desires. I was raised to believe you take care of yourself because you have personal pride.

    I have also wondered why men feel they can “set standards” for female appearance, while they do not have to maintain any standards of their own. I just cannot understand a group of scraggly, wrinkled, unkept men thinking that they “deserve” a woman who keeps herself up? How can men rate us on a scale of 1 to 10, without looking in a mirror and rating themselves, too? As long as we go along with this type of thinking, and continue to comply with these standards in order to “find and marry and maintain” a man — we have only ourselves to blame for the consequences. The only way to change the game is to live your life according to your own rules. You have to be a game changer and live with the results. If an overweight, balding, middle aged guy with poor personal hygiene finds me unattractive because I have not gone in for a boob job — I guess I will just have to live with that! Poor, poor me. I wonder how I will be able to cope living without a hunk like that? Seriously?

    The reality is we all age (unless we die young) and age can be very unkind to men, too. I hear about male ED all the time from the women I work with, and found it to be a reality in my marriage as well. It didn’t stop him from having affairs. Nor did his having dentures, wrinkles, arthritis, and gastro-intestinal issues. Women may be more forgiving of these features, or just choose to turn a blind eye to them in order to “have a relationship.” I have found that I can live without this lying cheating jewel of a man, however, and live quite nicely. I really hope his new Schmoopie enjoys all of these wonderful features about him. He is her problem, now.

    • Agreed. This aspect of society where women must look young forever or lose their partners is not even close to calming down or reversing. I honestly think we should get a class action suit against Loreal, for example, for making claims that their spackle visibly reduces wrinkles, etc. Numerous studies have been done and basically there’s nothing over the counter that is “anti-aging” and OMG who invented that combination of words!?

      We are so used to the older man / younger woman scenario that when you actually see a middle aged male actor partnered with a middle aged female actor, you keep wondering, “What’s wrong here? Something seems off.” Simply because we have been trained to accept the man being 20 years older than the woman.

      I resent older models like Andie MacDowell, who is still utterly gorgeous, but is filmed behind a frosted filter under very bright light. And yet, if we were to show her as she actually is, who would buy the product? Gah! It’s almost as though we’re still in the 1960s because if we make a stand about this we’d be called radicals or feminazis. We can’t win!

      It’s great if we can accept ourselves as we are but it’d be nice if society threw us a bone now and then.

      Gets off my soapbox.

      • ML – I’ve got a vague memory of one of these ‘fashion houses’ L’Oreal? Maybelline? Max Factor? – who cares – they’re all the same, actually winning a court case where their defence was that ‘women were buying the dream’ – not necessarily the efficacy of the products or the truthfulness of their claims! I think this was years ago and made a big impact on me with regards to these snake-oil sellers and the whole judicial system that backed up this level of public fraud!

      • In the industry, women are not allowed to have more than 3 slight wrinkles round the eye area no matter how old they are. Photoshop if they haven’t had enough work done. And every time I read that Nicole Kidman is “aging gracefully” I want to choke the person writing it. She is aging with massive work done on her face, she even had her lips pinned up. It’s fucking ridiculous. Meanwhile men with some wrinkles have “character”. Next time you pass one of those perfume places in the airport look at the giant photos of the men and women selling them. You will note a remarkable difference, women airbrushed to perfection, the men with a weathered look of maturity… I have never seen our society devolve so decisively when it comes to the objectification of women as it has over the last 20 years. Even to the point where young women are afraid to be labels feminists.

        I never climb down off this soapbox.

        • Ok, back on the soapbox with you, Dat. And young female pop stars are claiming their equality to their male peers by also writing and singing lyrics that debase women! And some rappers, omg, if I hear one more song about “jiggle that butt” I will puke.

          Sad times indeed.

          • When women try to be “cool” and put down other women by calling them derogatory names and/or making disparaging remarks about other women’s looks or degrading women in the way many C”rappers” do they betray their own sex in a manner that is hard to forgive. Sooner or later that woman will find out that no matter what she says or does, the men will never accept her the way she thinks they will, and they will talk about her the same way they talk about other women — as if we were all an interchangeable box of body parts developed strictly for their pleasure, to use and dispose of at will. Have you ever noticed that two women fighting, who have done exactly the same thing, call each other “whore, slut bitch” etc? As far as feminism goes — I have heard the term feminazi , or have heard it equated with lesbianism so many times that it makes me ill. I think of all the women before me, and women in my generation who have fought long hard battles for equal pay in the workplace, the right to vote, the right to have our own credit, the right to obtain/practice birth control — and on and on — and I feel so bad! Apathy and an unwillingness to stand up for ourselves is going to cause us all to lose the very things we have fought so hard for.

            If we allow women to be objectified in this manner, and only see our worth as being beautiful ornaments designed solely for the pleasure of a man, we allow ourselves to have no value at all. No wonder self esteem suffers! Age shows on us all — men have the same problems with aging that women do — but they are not judged by their physical beauty alone! Men are not expected to take drastic measures, like plastic surgery, to keep their wives happy and from straying! The muffin top that launched a 1000 affairs SHOULD be a laughing matter!

        • I bet those men in ads, the ones that are older and distinguished looking etc. with “character” also conform to some societal image of what constitutes being handsome. You won’t find any fat, big nosed types etc.
          So, while the superficial qualities that advertisers think constitute attractiveness may be different for the genders, there is still a standard for men that is unattainable for most of us ( well except me, of course).
          You cannot go by a new stand without seeing men on the cover of magazines with washboard abs and all types of article on how to lose body fat,how to get ripped etc. Just like the crap that women deal with re weight and collagen lips and such.
          So,just because and has some fifty five year old with a tan,smile lines, a full head of glowing grey hair and he happens to be male does not mean that men are not pressured to look a certain way , too. Yeah, he is 55. Yeah, he has some wrinkles. But, really, look at how exceptional he looks compared to most of us.
          And, age and his wardrobe, often , convey wealth and power, qualities that can be every bit as superficial as looks. Yet, we accept admiration for these things as if it is any different from someone liking a person’s looks. Neither is indicative of a nice, good, honest person, necessarily.
          Ever wonder why harlequin Romance Novels have guys on the cover that look the way they look? It appeals to their market.
          Seen any cover with a nerdly, nice guy who radiates warmth, honesty, compassion.
          Let’s get real. Both genders are subject to this type of pressure.

    • You are wrong if you think men are not judged by their looks, just like women are. Throw in wealth, status and penis size, as well.
      Neither gender is more superficial or judgmental.
      If you were a man, you would know that we are assessed based on superficial things, just like women.

        • Women on OK Cupid rate an incredible 80% of men less than average looking.

          80% are less than “medium” looking. 80%. Eighty. Let that sink in for a moment…

          From the article: “Paradoxically, it seems it’s women, not men, who have unrealistic standards for the ‘average’ member of the opposite sex.”

          Now tell me again how less superficial women are.

          Arnold is exactly right. Women are at least as superficial as men. Luckily (maybe), men can compensate for lack of physical attractiveness by being rich. Women generally can’t. Unfair? Maybe but nature is a cruel bitch at times.

          • After following a series of links and ending up on a website that is geared toward gaming women, I have to disagree. One delightful quiz had to do with your marketability as a female. The only age group that did not assign a very low or negative marketability score was 18 – 22. And over 40? Fuggedaboutit.

      • Arnold, there are superficial people in both genders, and some women may judge some men in this manner — but it is not a part of the culture the way objectification of women is. Women have their preferences, just as men do. I would rather date a man who is in my age range, who takes care of himself by watching what he eats and exercising, who has a quick wit and a quicker laugh. I would rather date a man who is employed, and has his own property and retirement, so that he is not looking to me to provide either of those things for him. I would rather date a man who is confident in his abilities, and has achieved something with his life. I really do not have, nor do I intend to have, any idea of a man’s penis size before I decide whether or not I like him as a person. Men have to learn to deal with ED just like women have to learn to deal with menopause — NEITHER gender can pretend that the issue is not there! I would fully expect for any man who would be interested in me to be looking for exactly the same things I am looking for in a partner. Having values and preferences is not objectification.

        You are fooling yourself if you think men deal with this problem “just like women”. Men may have some legitimate gripes with women, in general, but if you look at history closely, you will see that women in many countries and cultures are still enslaved by a patriarchal system of laws and are denied even basic rights like owning property or getting an education. There is a big difference in being judged for your skills and accomplishments, and being judged for your physical beauty. You may not want to believe this — but there is NO EQUALITY in the war between the sexes.

        • So well said Portia – and if you haven’t seen the video of the young woman walking the streets of NYC getting harassed for 10 hours, it illustrates the difference. I’m hoping someone will do a similar serious video of a young man doing the same thing to make it SUPER clear to those who want to believe in the fantasy that women have equality. Most people do not realize that black MEN got the vote before women of any color got the vote. I was 14 years old when women were finally allowed to get their own credit card. Our fight is not ancient history and it is far from over.

          • I do not think women have any idea of what men face in the Gynocracy. We are judged by looks, wealth, status etc vs personality qualities, compassion, empathy etc. I did not say women have it any better, but you have your heads in the sand if you think men do not face the same thing.

              • Just had to have a comeback to the old. tired “patriarchy” deal, Jayne. It does get a little tiresome hearing some women claim the victimhood status all the time.
                Does anyone seriously think women have it any tougher than men? See the below stats on suicide, combat death rates, etc.
                Ever wonder why when many studies have found that female on male violence is just about as frequent as the reverse that we have one out of approx 1800 domestic abuse shelters that accept men?
                Erin Prinzy,a woman who led the crusade for shelters has expressed her outrage over this disparity.

              • Tired patriarchy deal? Women claiming victimhood? ‘Does anyone seriously think women have it any tougher than men?’
                You. can’t. possibly. be. serious. I know men like you exist that think sexism and misogyny isn’t “that bad” and men have it just as bad but to actually hear/read you guys say it really just shocks me Everytime. This is the same way white people try to say black people/other people of color don’t have it “that bad” and we just enjoy playing victim. It’s bullshit, reeks of male/white privilege and its VERY annoying. You need to check yourself Sir.

              • Women don’t claim victim hood, we fight for equality and maybe you should read the hateful shit feminists deal with when we fight. Death threats, rape threats, you name it. And still we work toward equality, the MRAs hate it, they are so accustom to their privilege that equality feels UNequal to them. Therein lies the problem.

            • This is a great site, but unfortunately there’s a lot of misandry in these comments. I would have hoped that women who have been “chumps” would have more sense than to demand the gold medal in the Oppression Olympics.

            • Wow, just a ton of articles and studies about preferential sentencing disparities based on gender. Not a one found that women get anywhere near the length of sentence for the same crime.
              Looks like the patriarchy missed this.

          • Combat death-99% men. Workplace death-93% men. Suicide rate for men 400% of rate for women. Sentencing disparities for the same crime. Custody awarded to men less than 15% of the time.I could go on.
            Yeah, men have it real easy.

            • Arnold, I’m glad that you point out how it is from a male perspective and I agree that men are judged by women on a superficial level too. I’ve got friends that won’t date a man unless he has a certain income and dresses a certain way.

              For me looks are secondary to personality. What I’m looking for is someone who has emotional depth and can communicate. Compassion and kindness are nice too. However, I think everyone prefers to find the person they’re dating or married to attractive on some level.

              Men, seem to need to feel physical attraction before they will consider getting emotionally involved. Almost every single man I’ve ever talked to says he looks for physical attraction first. If it’s not there they won’t pursue the relationship.

              Studies I’ve read say that if a woman feels emotional connection (friendship), physical attraction can develop later. However, if a man doesn’t feel physical attraction first, their relationship won’t progress.

              • Yes, but the emotional attraction may come from appreciation of qualities every bit as superficial as looks. like wealth, power, strength(physical that is) etc.
                I just think that it is a myth that women are less attracted to superficial qualities. Just like i know it is a myth that women who cheat do it for emotional connection reasons vs men for physical (not that one is any more acceptable).
                See, when I was young a good athlete, ripped etc, I would get propositioned for meaningless sex by women all the time. They could care less about me as a person. They liked my looks and my athletic accomplishments and my earning potential based on my academic achievements. That was it. They wanted sex for hypergamous reasons alone.

              • Yes Tempest when 41.5 percent of all female homicide victims in the U.S. are killed by their domestic partner, we know there is a problem.

              • And thanks, Datdamwuf, for your arguments on prevalence of domestic abuse by men (rather than women). I’ve had those debates with people in the past on-line & just didn’t have the heart for it here (got enough on my hands keeping my cheater out of the house–only 7 weeks since D-day!). I appreciate your persistence!!

              • 5th most dangerous thing a man can do is to not live with a woman? Saw a video by Bill Maher on this. In short, Cats confined to the house live longer than cats who roam freely. But, I bet the free roamers have more enjoyment of life.

              • That’s your argument? I believe that is called a nonsequitur. If “cats who roam free” live longer, by all means, live the single life and enjoy it. But please stop posting nonsensical arguments that would not pass Logic 101.

            • Each gender has it’s own bag of unjust weights to carry around. As someone in the education field I can attest that men are often viewed as child molesters or just purely incompetent when it comes to taking care of children, the younger ones especially. That’s reflected in custody settlements as well. I’ve had parents pester/bribe staff to get their child off the waitlist and then throw a hissy fit and insist their child be put back on the waitlist simply because the teacher was male. Male teachers were not allowed to change diapers and therefore, not allowed to be infant teachers in one place I worked as infant teachers had to be able to change diapers. That is a very superficial judgement to attribute to all men and it’s a very damaging one too. It stands in stark contradiction with a belief that women are also drawn to family men and are looking for a good father figure for future children. When I enter a classroom I don’t have to think twice about someone’s suspicion of what I’m going to do when I pick up that baby. My male coworkers often times can’t say the same thing.

              Women tend to get lower pay than men do in similar positions and they face similar views of them being incompetent when they’re the only female in a male dominated field. Both men and women get jipped when it comes to emotions. Women express normal emotions and they’re labeled “hysterical.” Men are told they can’t cry or get looked down on for being unmanly for showing that they’re human and have the same emotions women do. No one can win with emotions because there’s always someone labeling it as “bad.”

              • I agree feisty pants. Each gender has its own set of challenges/prejudices to face.
                But, on this issue of being judged or valued strictly for physical appearance, I have a lot of personal experience with having been valued strictly for my looks.
                I would get notes slipped under my dorm room door from women I did not even know, asking for sex.
                I just know that women like good looking guys just as much as men do women.
                In college , my married female boss at my part time job would try to miss me l the time and grab my butt etc.
                Out of the blue she asked me to go to a hotel with her .

              • It is the patriarchy itself that harms men in the emotional arena, it is those norms that insist a man shouldn’t cry, etc. Both men and women are harmed by the patriarchy, and there are men who see that clearly and are trying to change it, they are feminists.

                PS: The studies Arnold cites that women abuse as often as men are bullshit, he’s cited them here before and I took the time to educate him on why the results he was touting were incorrect and misleading. I bothered to give honest and objective links to real data. Of course Arnold doesn’t care because they make him feel better, he prefers to read something that bolsters his view rather than become educated. Asking Arnold to check himself ref his privilege is an exercise in futility.

              • Tempest, not an argument , simply a reply to the assertion that it is dangerous for a man to not live with a woman.

        • It is futile, Dat, just as trying to enlighten you to the realities of male disposability and female on male abuse is futile.
          You can call the studies BS, but they are from extremely reliable sources, like the CDC.
          I see examples of women smacking men all the time and if you watch TV or movies, you will see women hauling off and belting men again and again, as in real life, that practice is well accepted.
          I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
          How do you explain the custody award disparity, the female sentencing disparities? I assume even you will admit these are well documented.
          Same with the combat fatalities, and the work place fatalities. There is really no debate on those stats.
          I , frequently, ask my daughters to consider paying their share for the dates they go on. They are incredulous that I would suggest such a thing. The female privilege mindset is apparent to me re many aspects of life.
          You need to open your eyes and do some research on female violence. Even if, as you allege, it is less prevalent than the reverse(and many studies , actually have found that it is slightly more prevalent for women to abuse), how can you possibly explain the 1 out of 1800 shelters accepting male vicitims that Erin Prinzey decries.
          even you would have to admit that the ratio could not be 1:1800 male to female violence.

          • your stats are from radical men’s rights organizations like “A Voice for Men” where they cherry pick the stats they like and leave behind the ones they don’t. I’ve read them myself and tracked down the actual studies that they reference, they do not link to the studies themselves because they know what they are saying is bullshit. You can’t argue the fact that more than 40% of all female homicides are perpetrated by their domestic partner. That 85% of all domestic violence is male on female.

            You really want the custody award disparity explained? read this: I really doubt you will bother to read an actual research paper that doesn’t support your views, you didn’t read the half dozen I posted for you last time you went on this tirade. 51% of divorced couples agree among themselves who will have custody of the children, only 4% of all custody cases went to court and only 1.5% actually went through custody litigation. Bottom line, 91% of custody cases are decided without the interference of supposedly “biased” judges.

            If your daughters are incredulous at paying their own way, your own parenting had something to do with that, can’t help you there, maybe you should have brought them up as feminists, they’d have a different view if you had.

            I’m not alleging a damn thing, facts. 85% of domestic abuse victims are women, 15% are men in the latest government study: There are zero reputable studies that show female on male violence is equal or more prevalent, ZERO – show me one and I’ll read it. I repeat, your claim is absolute bullshit.

            If you are going to quote someone (who is barely relevant) at least get her name right, it’s not “Erin Prinzey”, it’s Erin Pizzey. And the woman has joined the MRA group A Voice For Men. You know what Pizzey also said in the 70s? She tried to create shelters for men and they just sat around and went into a depression, refused to take care of each other, wouldn’t cook or clean or etc. so she said she had to close the shelters. I think she’s full of shit myself. But hey, you brought her up.

            You want to know why there are no shelters for the menz? Because the men are not creating them. Do you think all the women’s shelters were government funded to start with, hell no. That’s one good thing your Erin Pizzey did in Canada, she started some, she showed they were helpful, THEN the government gave some funding. That’s how the women’s shelters got started. You want shelters for men, get off your ass, create a nonprofit, get funding, build the damn thing. Show it’s needed and the government will help you too. Stop whining to women about the disparity and do something, that’s what WOMEN did and continue to do.

            • Nice ad hominem laced with profanity, Dat. You fail to address the combat deaths, the work place deaths, the suicide rates etc that . You can rant away, but the studies do show that female on male violence is prevalent and accepted.
              Sorry if I got Prizzey’s name wrong. I actually went back and read about her and realized it after posting. I was waiting to see if you latched onto it as something substantive and , in the manner of many who argue as you do (ranting and with insults) you brought it up. It’s pretty common among the ad hominem types.
              I listened to Prizzey on a youtube recently and even she admits that this disparity in available men’s shelters is shocking. She said no such thing about having to shut down shelters based on men’s behaviors.
              As far as custody goes, if it goes uncontested a fair amount of the time it is due to the fact that, until recently, it was just a waste of money for most men.
              The CDC sites rates of female violence as substantial and most experts acknowledge that men report it way less frequently than do women. So, in reality , it is probably higher than the studies show.
              I think you are so blinded by your prejudice against men and your investment in being an oppressed victim, that it makes little sense to try to get through to you..

              • You are confused about what an ad hominem attack is, why am I not surprised. I did not address the combat deaths, the work place deaths or the suicide rates because you have failed to show me any studies that support your stats, and you haven’t made any argument that supports the idea that women are somehow the reason for those disparities. Think you can dig some up?

                I repeat, there are zero reputable studies that show female on male violence is equal or more prevalent, ZERO – show me one and I’ll read it. How many of those men are killed by their female partners? Give me links to this mythical CDC study that proves your point about female on male violence, can you manage that?

                You cannot be bothered to look her name up or read anything she’s written or said beyond watching a youtube video, yet you know all about Pizzy. The woman is a product of the patriarchy, her views are uneducated and formed by her own upbringing. She is no expert, she has done no studies, she gets articles published by the Daily Mail and the MRA sites because she agrees with them. Using her words to bolster your argument is the same as me telling you to stand down because Gloria Steinem agrees with me… get it?

                I am no victim, nor am I prejudiced against men, they are also harmed by the patriarchy in many ways. I would see that change. You like youtube, watch this – this is feminism:

                The oppression you can’t see seems to weigh heavily on you, isn’t it amazing that you are allowed to be angry? Women, not so much in our society. It is so clear that men have power over in our society, why are you so invested in proving men are the oppressed despite the overwhelming evidence of your privilege?

            • The stats on custody awarded to men vs women are also readily available by merely googling . Latest from 2009 was 82% awarded to women.

          • The “patriarchy” prevents men from crying? Right. Where do you come up with this stuff?
            Ever wonder why a frail 18 year old , under developed male can be conscripted and forced to face death on the battlefield, while a muscular, heavier rugby playing women is exempt? Make a lot of sense?
            Guess the boy is “privileged” .

            • Why do men call each other “pussy” to connote weakness? Why are men told to man up? Yes, it is the misogynistic culture we all share.

              Worse possible argument I’ve ever heard to express this viewpoint. There is no longer a draft, but that’s beside the point. Women have worked tirelessly to be given equality in the military and it is men who stop them. You really should read history.

              • I think you should watch some of the videos by Karen stray than, Dat. She does an excellent job of debunking the ” male privilege”
                I am not surprised that you can it see the ad hominem feature in your debating style.
                Just google me suicide rates , me combat fatalities, workplace death rates and sentencing disparity between the genders.
                Sheesh, the info is so readily available .
                The feminist hate speech towed the MRA is incredible.

              • You are not worth the time, you cannot even cite sources for your stats, I note you did not answer a single request for the imaginary studies you talk about. You can’t be bothered to give a single factual bit of data, you expect me to try and find the bogus crap you read? Why not answer my response above, you cannot. So of corse you devolve to an attack. Let me fix something for you: “MRA hate speech toward feminists is incredible, so are the threats to kill and rape feminists if they dare to speak their minds.” This will be true until equality is a reality because equality is a threat to male privilege. Bye now

          • Just google female domestic violence, Dat. There are numerous studies that conclude it is roughly equal or slightly less or slightly more. Studies from the US, Great Britain, New Zealand. All ready available for you to look at.

      • I think women are judged more harshly by looks than men. But I think men are judged by money harsher than women. Think “sugar daddy” or “barbie doll” stereotypes. Those stereotypes speak to what we value in the respective genders.

        • And those stereotypes speak to women being valued for sex and looks. The sugar daddy has a sugar “baby”, he doesn’t spend that money on older women past their expiration date.

          • Not do the women waste their time on average, non rich guys. So, seems pretty equal in terms of superficiality.

            • I did Arnold and he wasn’t just average, he was way way below average, you know instead of appreciating a woman like me, (by the way I paid my way from day one and I ended up also paying for his worthless ass) he cheated on me repeatedly. I could’ve had any guy I wanted, but I thought he was “a good guy” and I even turned down a rich guy who owned his own law firm and he was much better looking than this asswipe, so yeah, there are women out there who do waste their time on average, non rich guys and look where that got me…

              • Not all women do this , Nicolette . Just like few men do the sugar daddy deal.
                Neither gender has a monopoly on crisp behavior.

          • Keep drinking that Kool Aid, Dat.
            Your mind is obviously closed to anything other than what you need to believe.

            • Arnold, No. YOUR mind is closed. Your responses are so typical of people trying to defend privilege. I get very similar responses when trying to explain white privilege, racism etc. How do you correct inequality when people won’t even accept it exists? It’s very frustrating. You won’t accept it exists because YOU benefit from it. Its because of “nice” people like YOU that inequality still exists.

              Thanks Datdamwuf for making your valid points.

    • It has been my observation, that in many cases, the harshest criticism of another woman’s appearance comes from another woman or group of women. Case in point, the women CL is quoting. That is not a man advocating that women need to look certain way. It is another woman.
      So, where do we get the idea that it is men setting these standards?

  • Let us not fail to mention that there is a kind of T-distribution for this sort of thing as well if we make “desirability” of the spouse who has cheated on the focus (although, I am sure proponents of that outlook might argue this is way too subjective).

    I have seen people apparently “trade down” by every measure as often as they apparently “trade up”, and more often just apparently “trade horizontally”.

    Now, it may be true that those cheating don’t perceive value in those they cheat on, but you’re going to have a hard time convincing me that Jesse James was somehow trading up by having an affair with the woman who blew the whistle on him over Sandra Bullock, for example. I would find it difficult to think of that as anything but opportunistic because it doesn’t seem to coincide with any measure of desirability that I can think of off hand.

    • TH…A t-distribution will only tell you if there is a statistically significant difference in the mean between two groups…Since you have 3 “trade up, down, or horizontal” you would have to use ANOVA…but in the end the cheater trades down because it takes a lack of character to be an AP.

      • My thesis is that it is merely opportunistic and perhaps driven by devaluing partners (which could very well speak to character of the cheater), and that trying to measure these things in terms of desirability of the partner is a fool’s errand in the vast majority of cases 🙂 The T-distribution of desirability model was just thrown out there as an illustration of what I have observed anecdotally : that most cheaters, especially serial cheaters, tend to follow a pattern and have a ‘type’, but when they don’t seem to do that, they are as likely to “trade up” or “trade down” by measures like physical appearance, good character, financial well being, etc.

        And there are exceptions: gold diggers (male and female) tend to focus their searches for victims, after all, but still it comes down to opportunism.

        • I have actually been teaching t-test this week so my response was just a nerd joke…I completely agree that it comes down to being opportunism…That and being a characterless asshat!

    • My cheater definitely traded down. The downgrade is a 62 year old whore who looks more like 70, and draws her eyebrows on with a Sharpie. She must have failing eyesight as well, because in the Facebook pics I saw after d-day, they’re always crooked. Did I mention that I’m almost 10 years younger, physically fit, and have been told I look much younger than my age.
      Nope, it definitely doesn’t have a thing to do with physical appearance. It must have been her integrity, her sterling character, and wholesome personality that “won” my cheaterpants. Gah!
      btw, they are both blocked from my view on FB. I am totally NC and have been for several months, including refraining snooping their FB accounts, just wanted to make that clear!

    • I wonder what drew Sandra Bullock to Jesse James in the first place? Think it was his personality or some other deep , non superficial quality?

  • I am beautiful and smart, and I look a hell of a lot better now that I am no longer dragging 180lbs of Cheater Meat around. As do we all.

    • In the last week, I’ve had no fewer than 6 people tell me how great I look, one even called me “radiant” and asked what I was doing. It’s amazing what a drag STBX apparently was and I didn’t even know it.

  • The woman my husband had a 6 year affair with was no beauty at all based on her Facebook photo. Rather skanky if you ask me but of course, I would say that.

    The one I caught him with was short and had enough of a belly for the PI wonder if she was pregnant. BTW, she had 5 kids….funny thing is, her husband divorced her because she cheated on him. I actually asked my STBX if any of the kids were his. He was offended by the question, of course.

    No clue what the rest looked like and I don’t care. They can have him and all his wonderfulness (ha!!). He’s not worth an ounce of my effort anymore.

  • Both relationship partners should be the best they can be and not take each other for granted. But as CL and others point out, Hollywood is littered with the surgically enhanced and rejuvenated who routinely cheat and get cheated on.
    My cheater told me from the outset, that if I got fat he would divorce me (red flag!) I laughed it off like he was joking, hah! He watched his weight and exercised and I kept pace too. Did it insulate me from infidelity? Heck no! He was keeping himself up like the Narcissus he is and for all the APs. Not me! While I was keeping myself up for me and him.

  • ‘The Great I Am’ used plastic surgery as one of his excuses for cheating. Apparently he needed the ego-boost when his latest nose job didn’t work out as perfectly as he wanted, and even though I (and every other sentient being around us) told him 1) he didn’t need the surgery and 2) it looked fine after it was done – he couldn’t trust I was telling him the truth because I was too nice (cor, that assessment of me sure has changed now he’s re-written history). Apparently, not being able to run a plumb bob along the side of your nose is terribly, terribly injurious to one’s self esteem don’t you know, so of course what will really help with that is to have a piece of strange gazing up your nostril as you get your rocks off – well known fact, that! 😀

    Shithead had his first nose job years and years before I met him. He showed me a photograph of him pre-op and I could understand why he’d wanted the op doing – his nose was definitely too big for his face and fair enough if his self-esteem was a bit low because of it (as an aside, in this age of plastic surgery, people who don’t have plastic surgery are the truly beautiful people – certainly they clearly are not shallow, self-obsessed, fashion driven imbeciles who have totally lost sight of what is actually important in life), but the operation damaged his sense of smell (and therefore, taste) and made it difficult to breathe from his nose. This is how shallow ‘The Great I Am’ is – that he’d risk totally losing his sense of smell (and taste – imagine – electing to risk never, ever enjoying a single bite of food to eat) and never being able to close his mouth for fear of suffocating! For what? A nose he wanted to use as a laser weapon or something???

    And that’s the thing about plastic surgery, isn’t it? Michael Jackson should have been a cautionary tale for anyone thinking plastic surgery would make things ‘all better’. ‘The Great I Am’ damaged 2 of his senses and compromised his ability to actually exist as an oxygen dependent entity, I’ve heard boob jobs compromise ah hem nipple sensitivity, I’m guessing genital re-fashioning does the same thing – so essentially people are electing to lose the function for the appearance. You can tell people who’ve had face lifts etc – they all look like they interbred with each other. Bigger boobs equal dowagers hump later on down the line, penis extension equals cock rings and splints to help keep it up if you can even get the pneumatics working slightly again (hey guys, us women find cock rings, splints and limp dicks just, so, so sexy – NOT) – they’re all round the bloody bend these people!

    Actually, I reckon she’s probably got a point this mad woman – let’s continue to encourage these idiots to go under the knife. They are like a tribe – easily identifiable by their unnatural appearances that loudly state ‘I’m vacuous and narcissistic’ – it would so save us chumps from having to even speak to them.

    • Haha, oh Jayne. Agreed, especially with that last paragraph. I hate to bring her up but Renee Zellweger’s new appearance is a good case in point. She was distinctive because of those “slitty” eyes and now they’re gone.

      I have almost the same type of eye and I’ve often thought that when I could afford it I’d have a little bit snipped off my heavy eyelids, but then I read that sometimes during this procedure, your eyebrows lower! I like my eyebrows where they’re at, I don’t want them to be lower. And if you look at Renee’s new face, I think that’s what happened. It is super rare to NOT be able to tell when plastic surgery has taken place.

      So yeah, let these empty superficial people stick to their own.

      • I like it when people have distinctive characteristics. I reckon the plastic people will go out of fashion and (particularly in the entertainment industry) it’ll be the one’s who look like Steve Bushemi (though I think sadly he’s given in to the snake oil salesmen) for example, or I remember thinking Cate Blanchett was an odd looking woman but fascinating for it, who’ll be getting all the best jobs in Hollywood soon enough. The plastic factory mugs can continue to fight out for the vacuous ‘B’ movies, but let’s be honest, eventually any director who would want to be respected for his/her art is going to want to use actors who can actually visually emote 😀

    • That is hysterical how narcissistically obsessed he was with his nose.. My ex is nothing to look at but after he was gone I found a whole folder full of ridiculous selfies (must have been used on dating sites? or texted to his schmoopies over the years?) he posed for his phone with baleful eyes and nostrils flared, so soulful – LOL. I also found an entry on his calendar to check with the dentist about tooth whitening, which to my knowledge he never did bec he has gray and crooked teeth (funny, so does OW?!)… but the funniest self care entry of all, on a scrap of paper he made a “to do” list after I told him he must leave and move out of our house: “clip toenails” was right up there with “pack CDs, change mailing address.” Hysterical, these narcs are!

      • “clip toenails” was right up there with “pack CDs, change mailing address.”

        Hahahahaha – cos nothing prepares you more for a complete change of life than having nicely clipped toe nails!

        Nice parting gift eh? ‘I’m leaving my horny toe nails as a memento of me’ (didn’t there used to be a superstition about nail clippings and witchcraft – or is that voodoo and zombies)?

    • Careful re the cock ring/limp dick critique. There are men with genuine ED issues due to age and health etc. And, many a cheated on man finds himself left with ED issues due to the psychological trauma,
      My doc told me it is no coincidence that the problem I have now coincides with the discovery of infidelity. He sees it all the time.

      • Sorry Arnold. No disparagement of men suffering ED issues was intended at all. However, along with his obsession with his nose ‘The Great I Am’ was also equally as obsessed with the size of his penis – to the point that he spent hours, daily, with a pump he bought being ‘intimate’. That I constantly (as in daily) assured him that his equipment was just fine, that in actual fact the cock rings he insisted on using made his penis ice cold and weren’t actually necessary, that despite his fantasy, women really do not care about penis size, they really do not spend their girly time together discussing men’s bits (not the girls I’ve ever known anyway, though we did discuss things like fanny farts, how having a good poo can be better than sex – how having sex on the beach just ends up with sand being flicked up your arse, so not exactly coy). I know ‘The Great I Am’ was considering penile extension surgery, and just like he was prepared to lose all sense of taste, smell and the ability to breathe, he was quite prepared to permanent ED problems, for what? Some mad idea that appearance was so much more attractive than function?

        My point wasn’t meant to disparage anyone who, e.g. needs corrective surgery. I could totally get why ‘The Great I Am’ had his first nose job, his nose was too big for his face, but the op damaged his senses and made it difficult to breathe. He didn’t need any further surgery on his nose after that, but he obsessed about having a perfectly straight nose for which he was prepared to lose totally his sense of smell, taste and the ability to breathe through his nose.

        For men who have ED issues, or very small penises that really impact their self-esteem, then sure I can totally understand why they would look to surgery if this is an option. However, that isn’t the same mindset as men like ‘The Great I Am’ who had no problems with ED, could measure himself above average and was being told constantly he was worrying about nothing. He was prepared to consider losing functionality for esthetics and frankly that’s madness in my book.

        As it happens, prior to D Day, I had a very healthy sexual appetite. Since then, I wouldn’t care if I never have sex again. I feel traumatised and raped by ‘The Great I Am’ – he used deceit instead of a weapon to coerce me into having sex with him, but believe me, I’d never have consented to making love with him had I known he’d been warming it up elsewhere prior to me. It has had a big impact on me, and this is yet another reason why I hate his guts – sex was a great joy in my life for over 30 years and this man has even robbed me of that pleasure.

        So Arnold, I get ED can be a real consequence of this abuse, got my own version of it going on, I’m not having a go at anyone about that, I’m having a go at men who’d elect to have ED for some insane body dysmorphia they’ve got going on. Just like you hear tales of mad women who get obsessed about the size of their breasts and end up looking like ‘Jordan’ or others like her, with their poor spouses pleading with them to just stop already!

        • I feel so robbed of my sex life too, Jayne. I wish I had known the last time I had sex was the last time I would have sex. And now, because I recently saw a picture of the OW I am back to having nightmares about him and her. Last night I woke up sobbing. In my dream I was crying to my husband telling him how horrified I was that I would never have sex again and knowing he’s getting lots of it.

          I know I can have it if I want it with someone who means nothing to me, but that’s not the point. It needs to be with someone I love and trust. Not sure that’s in my future. Fuck him. Fuck her.

          • Oh I’m so sorry to hear of your dream last night ML 🙁 I am totally with you about the need to make love, not just have sex (that’s what God gave us masturbation for, and I’m not even interested in that, I used to be so bloody horny, this isn’t the me I’ve known most of my life!) – maybe that’s why I don’t care if I never have sex again, I just don’t want to ever risk my heart again, and I haven’t even got the urge to give it a try. I’ve never felt like this before, but I was conned so completely, I really have no interest in risking that again. I’ve had a lot of offers since D Day, but I just can’t be arsed with it.

            ‘The Great I Am’ spent 2 years telling me the affair was just a friendship, but then he finally decided to admit it was sexual. I was furious and shortly afterwards he texted me that he was suicidal. I texted back that this was typically selfish of him and the only reason I could care less was that if he went through with his suicide threat then his skanky cock wouldn’t rot slowly from his skanky body. Yeah fuck him, fuck him very much!

        • Sorry again Arnold – on re-reading my post above I can see my indignant tone at ‘The Great I Am’ totally drowned out my expression of empathy for you.

          I do apologise that the ‘cock ring/limp dick critique’ was a trigger for you, it really wasn’t my intention at all. Making love with someone who is honestly present and making love right back atcha is the most potent aphrodisiac of all and neither penis nor vagina are the be all and end all in that. Far as I’m considered, the sexiest organ any of us have is the brain 😀


          Jayne x

          • No problem, Jayne. ED is natural, just like the effects of menopause. I think our use of that condition to ridicule folks points out exactly what CL is pointing out re the plastic surgery. We think less of people as they age and lose their vitality and beauty etc. We have a hard time ( no pun intended) dealing with the loss of our physicality and people like this woman who advocate plastic surgery as way to prevent infidelity are preying upon our insecurities.
            Your description of your XH, despite his horrible behavior, makes me pity him.To be that unhappy with oneself must be very painful.

            • I’d save your pity Arnold …. whatever is going on in his head, it certainly isn’t great angst, despite how it appears. He point blank refused to look any deeper into why he had such an obsession with his nose and penis. If he truly did have low self esteem it was in a kind of inverted snobbery way – a badge he loved to wear. I know I sound hard here, but honestly, I was very sensitive and empathic towards his ‘low self esteem’ claims. I forgave him a lot of self-obsessive nonsense because of it. Frankly, I think it’s his life-long ‘Get Out Of Jail Free’ card that he’s cleverly learned would excuse almost any rubbish from anyone in society – and My God, he played that card ragged. Feeling pity for him just made me another Chump and I reckon is Chumping you too.

              • I agree it is very hard to feel sympathy for someone like your H, Jayne. Much easier for an outsider to do so.
                Amazingly, after years of feeling hatred for my XW, i have, finally, come to see how pathetic and in pain she is. The fact that I do not have to be around her helps with that, as contact with her is always unpleasant. I bet she is NPD , like your XH. Miserable partners , peole like that.

              • FWIW – my honest opinion is ‘The Great I Am’ is a narcissistic megalomaniac. He was/is obsessed with perfection (he is his own statuesque monument to his own greatness and, in his mind, is like a great sculptor working on his grand opus. It doesn’t matter one jot what anyone else thinks of his nose or his penis, he wants to finely tune both appendages so that when He gazes at His own reflection His pleasure is complete – and the only god to exist and judge is him). He has two children from his previous relationship. His daughter was born with some severe disabilities. ‘The Great I Am’ told me that prior to her birth he was pro euthanasia for babies born with disabilities, but his daughter changed his mind. He also often told me that he could not bear to watch anything to do with amputees as it repulsed him and he would kill himself if ever he were to lose even a finger – just cannot countenance imperfection you see. At no point, whatsoever, did I ever see an attitude of self-doubt, self-loathing – even though we chumps would think it was some terrible inner conflict that would lead to this mindset, and therefore he must have been terribly, terribly unhappy with himself. I’m sorry, a more self-assured human being you couldn’t meet. I am certain now the man’s self opinion is so inflated that he holds anything he considers imperfect as utterly contemptible. I spent 14 years telling myself it was an outward display of bravado to conceal a fragile, wounded heart, but I was fooling myself. If pity must come his way, it should be for not being able to live a life with love for anyone but himself, not for the ‘low self esteem’ facade he likes to pretend.

        • I agree with you, Jayne. I now look back on every time I had sex with my husband since his affair 8 years ago as marital rape–it was done without my consent (and he even had the temerity to screw her one day and then come home & screw me the next for several weeks in a row. eww. At least I know he used condoms–why? because that is what sparked d-day).

          As to having sex again, I went through a period when I threw him out of the house where every male was attractive to me. Now in the period where I feel more emotional intimacy with my electronic boyfriend than to my husband during our marriage. Why? The electronic boyfriend has never criticized or gaslighted or deceived me.

          • It seems to me, based on the stories here, that most of these cheating men did not cheat because of the physical appearance of the cheating partner.
            Most seem to have gone in for an uglier woman.
            So, how does that support the allegation that the patriarchy insists on a certain look?
            Seems the opposite is true znd that looks were not important in terms of what attracted these cheaters.
            The men are characterized as ugly and so Re their affair partners.

      • Sorry Arnold. It literally kicks you in the crutch. Although I am not male, I cannot imagine being intimate with anyone else, it is a weird kind of shame.
        I found my husband really desirable, loved that side of our relationship, all the complaints of other married people did not apply to us but he preferred and was 100% monogamous to, someone 10 years younger than me who had never had children.
        It is a really painful sort of humiliation, isn’t it?

        • It robs of of our time.I am normal. Had a healthy drive and capability like most young men. Had no outlet as my XW refused sex for years. Found out she was not forgoing it, like I was.
          Now. 61, still good looking enough but with almost no capability. Not my fault. I am old, and traumatized. I have a nice girlfriend but that part is out. Sucks that we did not meet when we were younger.TMI, I guess.

  • How predictable!

    Of course, Louise is aiming her discourse at women who’ve been traumatized by the betrayal of infidelity. Does she talk about the men who’ve been cheated on? Nope! But if she thought of it, she would have.

    Chumps are reeling from the betrayal. Their world has spun out of control, so when quacks like Louise tell them that they can “fix” their appearance, they’re grateful! I mean, who among us would not sacrifice that cookie for a faithful spouse? We can control our weight (usually), so while we feel bad (yeah, we let ourselves go), at least we have this one thing we can fix to make it all better again.

    Hah! Of course this line of reasoning doesn’t at all hold up when we look at the very beautiful people who’ve been cheated on.

    As an aside, I remember a line from one of Terry Pratchett’s novels, in which young men in a mountain village are reminded that looks can fade, but cooking skills improve. 😉

    • Yay – Kb -another Terry Pratchett fan 😀 Chumpinthesand is one too (haven’t heard from her for a good while, wonder how she’s doing? Hope she’s well and life is treating her kind, I miss her 🙂 ). The man is my Guru – I absolutely love him! 😀

  • Aaaaand…the opposite of such ridiculous drivel is the real truth. How many times have we all noticed complete devotion, contentment, joy and kindness long time married couples exhibit based on the vows they meant?

    Hip replacements, eyesight changes, balding,lack of mobility, sagging skin, chronic disease – all a part of the for better or worse, in sickness…vows.

    I am blessed with a wonderful man now who had to CARRY his wife from room to room as she withered away from breast cancer. He slept by her on the floor when she could no longer do stairs.

    He wryly chuckles that she had big boobs and then no boobs. But he LOVED her because of who she was to him, not because of what she looked like.

    There are true, honest, delightful everyday heroes who somehow manage to do “the right thing”. They need to be celebrated.

    Robert Frost : “nothing gold can stay”
    Character is on the inside. Can’t be bought, traded in or exchanged for a new size.

    Adultery is as adultery does.

    • I have a wonderful male friend who has been married to the same woman for 25 years. His wife has gained weight over the years and is now about 350 pounds, which is morbidly obese. She is not attractive by any standard. Except his! Which is that she is his wife and the mother of his child and he will be devoted to her til death. He’s deeply concerned about her health and she is struggling with a terrible food addiction, but cheat on her? Never! Because that’s the kind of man he is. So they are out there and they do exist.

      • This.

        True love–not Twu Wuv–is a lot more holistic than body parts. One of my colleagues is married to a man who’s overweight, has all the related medical issues, and who doesn’t really want to look at his eating habits and how they contribute to his health problems. She told me that she is scared for him, since he is at such a high risk for a heart attack. She doesn’t want him to leave her like that, but she loves him and figures that she’ll just have to love him as much as she can while she has him to love because he is wonderful, the father of her children, and her very best friend.

    • Your post brought tears to my eyes Nain. You sound like you have found a diamond. 🙂

      I thought my ex husband and I would walk off into the sunset. I know I had intended to. I just didn’t know what he had in store for me. Now his 18 year old prostitutes will have to do what I wanted to do. At least he will die with a smile on his face, the fool.

  • She’s a serial cheater herself and has no shame about it. She claims she’s “saving marriages,” just like the Ashley Madison founder. She also blames the husband and the wife for the affair while she’s apparently an innocent party in the whole arrangement. (did a google search on her) Total bullshit. All the plastic surgery in the world won’t save her from Syphilis. Women are there just to have sex with. Men exist simply because they need to have sex and release their manly urges. Congratulations women and men alike, you’re nothing more than a piece of ass in her viewpoint.

  • Reminds me of the time I contacted the PI to follow the XH and his dingbat-paralegal OW. I’d just given him some photos of my husband, described the make and model of his car, license plate number, office address, etc.
    PI: “Ok, and what does his paralegal look like?”
    Me: “She’s your average trailer-trash girl trying to look professional. She has a face that makes me think she ran into several walls as a child.”
    PI: “No, I mean – *generally* what does she look like?”
    Me: “Oh – sorry. Tall, blonde, but seriously – that nose is so flat I don’t know how she breathes. You’ll see what I mean.”

    (he contacted me a few days later – laughing. he agreed.)

  • I’m calling the shit on this woman. She is yet another F-List fauxlebrity who think she has all the answers. She is also a self-described “serial mistress.”

    Anybody who believes and advocates modifying your body for the false hope of maintaining a superficial relationship and that spreading around brings quality to a marriage suffers from a serious lack of dignity.

    I was 29 when my husband left me. I’m no Gisele Bundchen, but I’m easy on the eyes. The crotch jockey is older, uglier, and dumber.

    Dumber was the holy grail attribute he was seeking. I refuse to lower my standards. I already did that by marrying him.

    • I know that STBX is all hung up on OW’s looks, but oh my! She’s over 200 lbs and only about 5’3 or 5’4″. I was never as heavy as she is, and I’m 4 inches taller! But all STBX thinks about are her tits (understandably bigger than mine :P) and her hair (apparently long red hair that shows 1 inch of the gray roots is attractive–who knew?).

      I think that “dumber” was the real quality, though.

      This isn’t to say that Schmoopie is stupid. She has a certain low animal cunning that she likes to think of as intelligence. She is good at spreading her legs, and knows that married men often are more financially stable than the guys buying her drinks in bars.

      However, STBX likes to think of himself as educated because he’s had a liberal arts curriculum, and feels threatened when he’s around others who have achieved the same educational level or better.

    • My idea of a satisfying, fulfilling relationship isn’t with someone who is so superficial that they aren’t going to love me because I had the audacity to age.

      I actually feel sorry for those women who think the best they can do is a superficial relationship. I’m grateful I’m not one of them.

  • That woman is dim-witted and, for me, easy to ignore. Although I do want to punch her. Even though my STBXH is having an affair with a woman who is twice my size, wears no make-up, is not fashion forward and is my age, it still hurts so much. I have taken a hit to my ego and my looks. I am 43, almost 44. I have carried and birthed a 10 lb baby and my belly will never look the same. I am ok with that…some days. But it hurts to think that my husband was there with me and saw me give birth, all that I endured and that did not endear me to him. That there is no place in his heart for me in which he would at the very least show me some respect by talking to me or just leaving if he wasn’t happy. No. that would have required some character and courage.

    And to think, one of his excuses for not being happy was that sex with me was him just “going throught the motions”. Amazing. He got his each and every time and I have gone without mine for so long. But did I cheat??? NO! I didn’t!!! Did he even care about my pleasure??? Hell no!

    It’s not about looks. It’s about the lack of character, the lack of commitment and the total selfishness of the cheater!!!!

    • Yeah, mine used the same “you’re just going through the motions” excuse too, despite getting sex 4 times/week from me during his affair. I explained to him that the reason I was so mechanical probably had to do with thinking “Why am I doing this? I don’t even like this man” during sex because he was so mean to me, my daughters, and even the dog.

      • My XW was so mean to me I lost all desire for her, eventually. Normal when you are dealing with a cluster B, from what i have read.

  • I am the creator of my own destiny. My destiny will not include relationships with people who are so shallow that their biggest commitments are contingent upon their subjective opinions of their partners’ looks.

  • Number one, I wonder what made her the fucking expert on anything?

    ‘The men have a right to look elsewhere, they have a right to be sleeping with an attractive woman.’

    Seriously?? All the skanks my ex cheated on me with were plain, so homely that you wouldn’t even glance at their way once, very unattractive, even overweight, white trash. On the other hand, I am very attractive and it even use to piss him off, drive him crazy when other men would gawk/stare at me and hit on me relentlessly all the time. Fuck, even the clothes I wear at my home is better/nicer/stylish than his whore’s clothes that they wear in public. So it’s nothing to do with their women being unattractive, it’s another bullshit excuse for cheating!

    And REALLY? What about their men who is overweight, old, ugly, balding, smells, dresses and looks like shit? does their women get to go fuck someone else, who is more attractive than their men? And what makes her think, these men, who are overweight, balding, ugly, old, smells, dresses and looks like shit to even think that they have a right, that they deserve to be sleeping with and be with an attractive woman?? Don’t they need to look at the mirror first before they can say, they deserve to be with an attractive women? WTF!!

    Fucking idiot! The looks fade, people get old, beauty can be lost within a second, the inner beauty, that’s what counts the MOST! if a man only wants a woman for her looks what good is he??

    Agreed CL, this dumb bitch needs a fucking brain and character transplant!!! SMH….

  • Louise Van der Slit or whatever she calls herself is just another sociopath who has figured out a way to make $$$$$$$$ off people’s insecurities. A con artist. Whatever. Normal people instinctively understand she is full of shit. Decent men do not cheat because their wives get older, they are getting older as well. And what about all the WOMEN who cheat? Does Louise Anyone-Can-Plug-My-Slit suggest that obviously their husbands let themselves go and so deserved to be cheated on?

    • Absolutely GIO – she’s another fucker taking advantage of other people’s weaknesses. Makes me want to form a mob, gather pitchforks and torches and march down to her lair. 😀

      Ah, well – gravity, insanity and all-consuming envy eventually catches up on these superficial dimwits, and when it does this loony can look back on her life’s work and know she was a canker on society, bringing nothing but unhappiness to all who knew her. She’s a dickhead – you know it, I know it, anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows it – eventually she’s going to know it as she scrapes the plastic bits that constitute her body up off the floor – hurrah, I say! 😀

      • “Makes me want to form a mob, gather pitchforks and torches and march down to her lair.”

        I just got in line behind you Jayne – I sharpened my pitchfork and my torch is lit. Just say when. 😉

    • Exactly. This crap is just another of the literally ENDLESS excuses that cheaters latch on to try to mask their character deficits.

  • This just gives society the excuse it is looking for to be increasingly shallow, self-absorbed, addicted, consumerist, pleasure-seeking and narcissistic. Sad but so many are giving in to the fountain of eternal youth and eternal entitlement. I gained weight and surely feel so ugly, especially now in the wake of no contact and seeing my shallow ex move on happily. But here is the thing. When you live in the stress of a narcissicist, gas lighting, addict asshole, and you are a kind, giving, HONEST and rational person, the stress of understanding and adapting to sickie world increases STRESS. And when we are stressed, and single parenting, and depressed, what is one very very common response. To eat. To not exercise. To lack motivation for self-care. All of our energy goes into our cheater, liar partner who sucks us dry by making us feel we have done something terribly wrong.

    Yes we all need to start learning self-care, and self-love after this hurricane of deception and pain, but to say that we should get plastic surgery, lose a 100 pounds, etc to be deserving of commitment, honesty and basic human dignity is ridiculous. None of that, nor “love” itself, is tied to the outside, and when it is, it is just more of the shallowness society gravitates towards nowadays . . . .It’s called CHARACTER, and it’s completely lacking everywhere .. . .

  • When I was sixteen, I was obsessed with my nose. I used to stare at my profile in a mirror (using a handheld mirror and the bathroom mirror). I was convinced that it was hideous and massive and awful. I desperately wanted a little, delicate sloping nose.

    Now I’m an adult and I love my nose just as it is. It’s not perfect, but it fits me and my face perfectly Imagine if I would have paid to get it changed when I was a miserable teenager with no perspective.

    I feel sad for adults who are still stuck in that mindset of “Must. Be. Perfect.” I’m not beyond caring about how I look by any means, but for Pete’s sake — can we put down the knife and just let our faces do what they gotta do?

    • Yay for you LilyBart! 😀

      The other thing that strikes me is that, despite all these ‘King Canute’ efforts to hold back the tide (of time) – eventually it all goes back to where it should be anyway!

      Consider Jennifer Aniston. She clearly and obviously had plastic surgery on her nose and chin when she was a teen, and looked beautiful for it. However, had she not done, we’d have got used to her ‘natural face’ and wouldn’t be going ‘what’s going on with Jennifer Aniston’s nose and chin’? now (well I do anyway :-D) and while I think she’s a great comedic actress I’m always a bit distracted by her wayward face now!

      I remember my first crush was for a British comedy actor called Sid James. Had a face like a bag of spanners, but he made me laugh! 😀

  • Well, I’m glad I didn’t have any plastic surgery (ouch and I’d rather use the dollars for a nice vacation) because I may have kept the cheater. No thanks.

  • Arnold….probably because women are around kids and old people way more than men are…that’s probably why.. Cause and effect. On the other hand, men kill women WAY more than women kill men and I’d say we’re around each other the same amount. But I’m not sure where we’re going with this story.

    • Arnold, Dude-

      Where did that comment come from? The article that CL posted is about a pseudo psychologist who is actually a hooker telling WOMEN to stop aging; get a boob job and whatever other plastic surgery they can finance because if they don’t, their husbands will cheat and “who can blame them.”

      The people responding are mostly women who have been married to men; some of which have held them up to the same ridiculous standards as the hooker writing the article. They are understandably more than a little pissed off at the way they were treated and are ripping their exes a new one with the normal sarcastic wit that prevails on this site. I’m sure if they were all lesbians and their exes were women they’d dog on them equally. I haven’t seen anyone ‘rip apart all men’, it just so happens that’s who all or most of the women here were married to.

      I’m not a man (or a lesbian) so I don’t know what it’s like to experience being cheated on by a woman or to be subjected to the stereotypical male discrimination stuff you’ve spoken about. We’re all on this website because we had shitty partners-male and female alike. It’s not the pain Olympics.

      When CL posts an article written by a gigolo telling men to work on their 6 pack abs, get some hair plugs and some plastic surgery to enhance their junk (and I’m sure they’re out there) I will be right there with you and all of chump nation telling him to go fuck himself. I promise!

      • Good points. That comment got misplaced. I tried to put it right after some other stuff about men oppressing women.
        I agree, we are all hurting due to betrayal by assholes.
        But, I bet a lot of the betrayed men had to hear how they were emotionally I evolved, uncommunicative or abusive as justification from their lying wives for their cheating.
        So , when I hear this stuff about men being superficial oppressors it bothers me as it ignores the fact that many of the betrayed men were involved with abusive liars.

      • You may be right there telling the guy to fuck himself . But, will you also claim, as some of the posters did with this woman, Louise, that it is the fault of women that men are for Ed to adhere to these ridiculous standards.
        See, I have no problem with rebuking Louise. But attributing the imposition of these ridiculous standards to some fictitious ” patriarchy” is divisive and false.

  • I am looking forward to being an old lady. I love how old people look. Why anyone would want to go under the knife to smooth themselves out is beyond me. I was never attracted to that look in a man, but of course this woman is not interested in what women feel or think. We are slaves to men’s dehumaizing desires. Fuck that shit.

    Don’t like how I look? Move on. I don’t want to have sex with you either. Who the hell gave anyone the right to tell me why stbx cheated NOT EVEN KNOWING ME and give me advice on my appearance. Such drivel.

    When stbx was treating me terribly, I told him he did not have to do me any favors staying married to me–I asked him to just be honest. He lied repeatedly of course, and was cheating with a woman who looked like a mean cabbage patch doll. Now, that I have more distance I am embarrassed for him. To think he traded a beautiful soulful person (me!) for a mean soulless liar with a frenetic false smile and beady eyes. Yuck. Commitment and love is not about looks, it’s about who you are inside and out. When I told him to go to her he told me he would never even want to talk with her now (read: now that he has better women at his work to chose from—good grief). It’s not about looks, people!

    I have posted this before, these older ladies inspire me. I am not afraid to grow old and to look old. I am afraid to waste my time being defined by empty individuals. Good talk back from all!

    (It’s me chumpectomy, I changed my handle to reflect where I am these days)

      • Fantastic! I love how they say that everyone looks the same but cries “individualism.” Old ladies inspire me. My grandmother lived until 104 and she was a great story teller until the end. She kept me riveted. I would rather be a good story teller than a blow-up pussy for a jerk any day.

  • My husband’s schmoopie is 8 years older than us, has bleached blonde 80’s big hair – complete with dark roots, lost all of her teeth due to bulimia, and is about 90 lbs….thanks to the bulimia I suppose. I have naturally highlighted & shiny brown hair, am average weight & bring a nice butt and 36 c cups. I could be a cougar if i wanted to as I have 25 year olds hitting on me when the girls and I go out.

    They both have dark hearts so I guess they’re a good match. Oh, he let me believe he didn’t find her attractive at all until I busted up their little love connection. Then it was yeah, she’s pretty. She is not!! Gross. Gag. Retch.

    • Arnold, you need to get a grip honey, your turning into the thing that you hate. No one here has said ALL men are bastards and ALL women are angels.

      ‘Cheating saves marriages’ according to studies. ‘One in Four Americans have been abducted by Aliens’ according to studies. ‘99% of people who study studies consider studies to be a complete load of shit’ according to studies.

      There’s lies, damn lies and statistics and can we just also add studies to that lovely quote!

      • Just trying to rebut a little of this “patriarchy”/ all men are Al Bundy crap, Jayne.
        I have many women friends, 3 daughters who I love and a beautiful girlfriend( inside and out).
        But I just hate it when we betrayed folks start taking shots at each others’ gender.
        It is divisive and flat out inaccurate to say women have it harder in this life than men and are subject to more value judgements than men based on superficial qualities.
        I love it when Simone sees some crusty old lard as ms. With a hot you g woman and judges him a lecher yet ignores her as a gold digger , as if both aren’t equally superficial.
        This whole oppressed women/patriarchy deal is a crock.

  • Hahaha! New boobs = fit.

    Every single fuckbuddy was older than me, fatter than me, and definitely skankier than me…..except for the sex workers. They are expected to look somewhat skanky.

  • Louise Van Der Bitch needs to drink deeply from the holy goblet of shut the fuck up. She’s an idiot. Prefrontal lobotomy for the cure anyone? That makes as much sense for what’s wrong with her as the crap she’s peddling regarding infidelity. If looks had anything to do with cheating, my STBX would have been faithful. None of the women I know or suspect he slept with looked better than me. In fact, considering his obsession with looks, his choices are laughable. I’m not saying I’m movie star material, I’m not to be sure, but I’m not bad looking. I’m pushing 60 and many people think I’m closer to 40. In fact, people tell me I look better now than I have in years. Amazing what getting away from an emotional termite will do for you. My looks and about $20 will get me a cab ride home, however.

    There was absolutely nothing I could have worn, no surgery I could have had performed, no hairstyle, no wrinkle cream or anything else that was going to keep Mr. Cheater McTurdmuffin from cheating. He simply did not respect me, love me or honor me enough not to cheat. Period. End of Story. It was his poor coping skills, latent anger, overly-developed sense of entitlement and poor character integrity which caused him to cheat. He cheated on me when I was thin, he cheated on me when I was overweight. I have yet to really wrinkle, so that didn’t send him scurrying off to cheat like the rat he is.

    If I have to have surgery performed to get or keep a man, I guess I won’t have another man. It took me a lot of years to finally get comfortable in this skin after Madison Avenue had worked me over. I’m not letting anyone else, especially a disloyal, lying, conniving, duplicitous POS, make me feel bad about myself again. I’m certainly not allowing some character-disordered, ho-bag like Louise do it. Louise – I politely invite you to go have a nice warm seat in the fuck you corner.

  • If we The Chumped were perfect in every way–having the ‘perfect’ boobs, a ‘perfect’ azz, ‘perfect’ skin, ‘perfect’ nose, ‘perfect’ teeth, ‘perfect toes, etc.–the cheaters STILL would have cheated because of how we ‘made’ them feel bad about themselves for being IMperfect!

    Cheaters cheat because of their own out-of-control ego (read: Immaturity), manifesting as SELFISHNESS, GREED and ENTITLEMENT. Having ONE ‘perfect’ spouse isn’t enough for them; they want MORE, and believe they’re entitled to HAVE more.

    And no amount of plastic surgery can ‘cure’ THAT!

  • I miss the days of the original feminists — Gloria, Betty, Camille, etc. They would have bitch slapped this woman clean into next year, and made an example of her to the brainless airheads that are going along with this natural selection toward Stepford wives.

    The bigger picture just creeps me out. I’m sure all these women have seen pictures of Jocelyn Wildenstein or Donatella Versace, but they go and do it anyway, as if time and the laws of physics aren’t going to apply to them.

    This month’s Atlantic magazine has an article called “Why Kids Sext” (available online). It’s the new normal. Nobody’s interested in you for anything other than your body, and the schools have become one big rutting ground.

  • It used to be thought (and probably still is) that if a woman dressed too sexily, it was her fault she got raped. Now if she doesn’t dress sexily enough, it’s her fault she got cheated on. CL, you wrote that many men cheat with women less attractive than their wives. The excuse I’ve heard for that is that men don’t cheat because their wives aren’t sexy enough, but because they don’t meet their husband’s emotional needs.

    My head aches from all the ways women are blamed for why men abuse them. What all these excuse-makers are ignoring is that people abuse because they want POWER. A plain woman, a beautiful woman, a sensitive woman, and an insensitive woman are no match for someone on a power trip.

    • It’s bad for abused men, too. They get little support( almost no shelters accept men).
      They are shamed if they report abuse( and it occurs with virtually the same frequency).
      Watch that John Quinones “what would you do” video showing the disparity between people willing to intercede on a man’ behalf vs a woman’s when they witness physical abuse. It is shocking.
      Go to the movies. See how frequently a protagonist woman hauls off and slaps a man across the face yet still remains the heroine in the story.
      Reverse it and the guy is a villain.

  • Cheaters cheat to cheat, and this woman Louise Van Der Plastic should just stop talking!

    I don’t know if anyone here had this experience, but I can’t be the only one: My cheaterpants dickhead cheated with someone who looks just like me. And I don’t mean if you squint and tilt your head, I mean smackdab LOOKS LIKE ME!

    I, of course, think her character is enough to make her a demon troll slunt, so I tend to think of her as ugly…but if I am being objectively honest, she is quite pretty. We both are. I guess by that I mean we both fit the generally accepted criteria for beauty in American culture. And again, we look eerily alike.

    Same body type, same shape, same hair length and color, same skin tone and color, same eye color, same facial features, facial structure, etc. Even the details are the same! We both have large wide-set eyes, we both have big smiles, we both have deep dimples, we both have a slightly crooked smile, we both bite our nails. We have the same tastes in clothing, jewelry, and shoes (and clearly, MEN). We wear the same size. We showed up to a social function once dressed almost identically.

    The handful of times we socialized prior to the affair (she is a ho-worker of his), we were taken for sisters by anyone who hadn’t been explicitly told differently. Even her own mother remarked upon the similarity once, after walking up behind me and saying “Hey, Chelsea…” When I turned she joked “Oh, my God, don’t tell her! I’m supposed to know my own daughter!” We laughed about it at the time.

    So, I guess Louise Van Der Idiot can just let me off the hook here. Phew! Now I can sleep at night!


    Where do these dumbasses come from? Is there a breeding farm for them?

  • So, this Louise Van Der Slut is a cheater? ‘Nuff said on her vapid, shallow, narcissistic crap then.
    Newsflash: Noone is perfect. Doesn’t matter even if they spent billions on manufacturing a plastic body for themselves – they still ain’t perfect.
    If someone can’t accept me exactly the way I am right now – they can get fucked. And while I might not be a 10 on the scale of attractiveness – I don’t give a shit. Happy the way I am, and thats all that matters.

  • That is my question to CL. Unless for disfigurement or health, I consider plastic surgery a BIG RED FLAG!

  • DING DING OK ladies and gents, take your corner.

    The battle of the sexes will never be won by either side.

    Let’s move on to why we are really here: LIARS, CHEATERS, FAKERS

  • Arnold is absolutely right there is a double standard men face in today’s society based on prevailing stereotypes and media coverage. The National Institute of Justice and the Centers for Disease Control National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey found that some 40% of those reporting serious partner violence in the past year are men, due to the stigma that men face in reporting, that percentage is probably much higher : The UK found a similar percentage in their studies, with a more disturbing finding that the violence against men in the home is on the rise.

    We need to face the fact that while our sexes are quite different, both are equally capable of the same evil and heinous acts, which includes lying, cheating and violence. I have witnessed both men and women engage in equally damaging non-violent vicious acts of verbal belittling, vituperative attacks, rages, that cut just as deep as acts of violence. Abuse may come in the form of emotional, sexual (including the denial/rejection of as well as forcing to engage) and physical abuse and threats of abuse.

    As Chumps, we are all too aware of how common it is to blame the victim of cheating for failing the cheating spouse in some manner. It is important to not overlook the lack of awareness and services available to support men who suffer from this, instead of attacking the victims.

    • The Daily Mail article has no citations, they are rag, however, the data they refer to is available here, no surprise, they don’t support the articles assertions:

      I appreciate your link to the Time article, I was able to find the CDC report from there. The Times 40% number is not reflected in the CDC report so far as I can tell. I am still reading it and intend to study it further, as it examines a number of different variables that other studies do not. It’s here:

      The report states: “Nearly half of U.S. women (48.4%) and half of U.S. men (48.8%) have experienced at least one psychologically aggressive behavior by an intimate partner during their lifetime.” I believe that is true, and never said it wasn’t. However, the conclusion of the study is: “Women are Disproportionately Affected by Intimate Partner Violence”. I am well aware of the damage emotional abuse can cause, I was in that position before my ex escalated to physical abuse. Nevertheless, there is a difference between broken teeth, murder and emotional abuse.

      Although there is only one old much debated survey to back her viewpoint, I will definitely read the Sarah Ben-David paper in full. Israel is the only country who has a draft of both men and women who serve side by side in dangerous conditions. This has been in place for many years and it seems to me this would cause a cultural shift. One would hope it would lead to less violence between the genders, but may, sadly, have had the reverse effect.

      That one survey purports to show physical abuse is equal, however, no other study has found the same results, it is: “1985 National Family Violence Survey”. It was conducted by Murray A. Straus. I can’t get that survey without paying a couple of hundred dollars for it. However, The NIJ does talk about it’s flaws here: . Until there is another, more current study, that is well received by the experts; I tend to be a bit skeptical of the results.

      Finally, I have not engaged in any victim blaming or attacks in our discussions. I am well aware the damage that domestic abuse does, no matter the gender. I am a survivor myself and came within a hairs breadth of being shot by my ex. Getting away from him was a nightmare, the police and courts were manipulated by my abuser which made it even more difficult. I understand what it’s like from the inside. I am not minimizing the damage domestic abuse has on men. It is the skewing of it’s prevalence that I debated here and the role that our patriarchal society plays.

      I will stand by my comment reference the lack of resources available to male victims of abuse. There were no women’s shelters until citizen volunteers (women!) created them. These shelters were, and still are, run almost wholly on charitable donations and volunteer effort. It was many years before the government began subsidizing those shelters in any way. And, many years before laws were passed to help women escape abuse. The shelter that helped me gets minimal assistance from the government. If there is a need for Men’s Domestic Abuse Shelters then men need to create them. Rather than debate me on forums, why not put that energy into creating the resources men need.

      • Hi, Datdumwuf: I can try & get a copy of that Straus study for you (I’m at a university). However, the studies purporting to show equal domestic violence by men & women go against EVERYTHING else in the literature showing higher rates of physical aggression on the part of men, largely due to correlations with testosterone. Hence I, like you, am skeptical of the methodology of the “equal rates” studies, and believe some of the “domestic violence” by women is a retaliatory slap after the woman has herself been physically assaulted (or perhaps verbally assaulted), and MOST definitely includes lesser forms of physical violence than men.

        • Thanks Tempest, I’d very much like to read that study for myself and have never been able to get it. If you can, please post in the forums so I can get it from you! My experience, and everything I’ve read, leads me to believe most women do not retaliate, they defend themselves. That happened with me once, hours after I told my husband I wanted a divorce. If I hadn’t defended myself I’d have had my head punched through a wall. I did no damage, my feeble act of defence shocked my husband so much he stopped (that time), it’s a long fucked up story from there to the day he pulled a gun.

          I have read everything I can get my hands on related to domestic violence after I nearly became a homicide stat. The Straus study gets thrown around by the men’s rights groups frequently, I much doubt any of them have seen it. Problem is, I can’t speak to it because I have not read it either. So yes, if you can get it, that would be great!

          • Sometimes articles from the 80s aren’t electronic yet, but I’ll track it down somehow (one of my colleagues is an expert in stalking & domestic violence). I am so sorry to hear about your domestic violence experience; the most dangerous time in a woman’s life is right after she tries to leave a partner.

            Please be patient though–I’m headed to the courthouse to file on my cheater tomorrow and there is going to be fallout this week! (A**hole took 5 weeks to make a therapy appt., I told him I was divorcing him and THEN he *pleaded* and pleaded to try therapy. I, against my better judgment agreed (I am a super-chump). He lasted one session, and then quit because I was too angry about his affair and I should just get over it and move on. Why? I think it was so that HE could make the decision to divorce. These narcissists with major control issues are tricky to deal with. My mental health dictates that *I* be the one to file–so tired of him running the show and simultaneously fucking me over. Okay, that’s my gnarly story for today.)

            • You go girl, get that filing done, I’m in no hurry. Take control of your life, Good luck and take care of yourself & Jedi hugs!

      • Both my Xws assaulted me , physically. My first swung a broom at me and the second, an all state athlete in 3 sports( so,stronger than a lot of men, took a swing at me.
        Like many men, I did not report it.
        I question , Dat, why you feel it is strictly men’s responsibility to advocate for shelters.
        Isn’t that a big like saying only black people should advocate for fair treatment of black people.
        Isn’t it all of our responsibility to advocate for our fellow human brings, regardless of gender?
        Even if it were true that women are more frequently victims of intimate partner violence( and, clearly the articles with studies cited by staying strong cast genuine doubt on that) do you thi k that an 1800/1 ratio of shelters makes a y sense?
        Even if men are only the victims 40% of the time, how can that ratio be justified.
        As for this” patriarchy” no sense, again take a lol at combat fatalities, suicide rates, work place deaths and injuries, custody disparities, and criminal sentencing disparities. How anyone looking AT&T those stats could co clued that menu e privileged makes no sense.

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