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Close Encounters with Affair Partners

Here’s an etiquette dilemma Emily Post completely skipped over — what do you say to the homewrecker who fucked your spouse?

Must you say anything at all? What about compulsory occasions like a child’s wedding? Or what if you stumble across them at your local hardware store (there in the screw department, I imagine) or worse, some “friend’s” party? Do you play it off with icy indifference? Flounce out of the room in tears? Slap the miscreant with your glove and challenge him to a duel?

How on earth do chumps share social space with these people? One chump Mandi writes:

I really, really need some good lines handy in case I get gobsmacked by an unexpected face-to-face with one of these people. I don’t know why I doubt myself so in this imagined instance, because I actually think I’ve handled [things] pretty effing well [so far].

Ideally, if any words are spoken to me at all, I’d like to think I’d say, “Oh, sorry, it’s my practice to treat my marriage as a private subject. I only discuss private subjects with friends.” And then make my smooth exit with no tripping or tears or stalling my car in reverse or something spazzy like that. This all assumes a balanced person hearing my words, which is already out of the question.

Of course I fantasize about saying things like, “Let me know if you need me to detail the lies he told YOU too, because they were at least every other line in the emails I found.” (Shit like he was sleeping on the couch 6 months, that he’d filed for divorce already, that he’d already told me everything, etc.)

I’m not sure why this encounter (which will likely never happen) is so scary to me. Or why I don’t think I could behave. I think on some level it is still very unreal to me. The thought of having one of the affair partners in living color, there in front of me, COMPLETELY paralyzes me.

Well, Mandi, don’t let it paralyze you. Take your power back and quit giving this person mental real estate. I know that’s easy for me to say, I’m years out from my infidelity nightmare, have no kids with the guy, and last I heard the major bat shit crazy OW was still living her drab existence in suburban Virginia. Not much chance of running into her.

But there was a time when she was a big boogeyman in my head, sure. The ex liked to tell me she was prone to violent rages! alcoholism! drama! (Projection much, dude?) Very convenient — if the cheater tells the Schmoopie and the spouse that the other one is CRAZY, well, hey, they might not compare notes. Unified Theory of Cake and all. Don’t talk to each other! You don’t know what she’ll do!

The person who called me on the phone just sounded small and sad, really. Occasionally haughty. But then she asked me when I got married, and she started to cry. Honestly, in that moment I felt sorry for her. Later she followed that performance with cyberstalking and harassment, but here’s my point (I was coming to it, really) — affair partners are PATHETIC. They are damaged, sad, fucked up people. Amoral. At best they are lost and deluded, at the worst they are predatory creeps. There isn’t a single affair partner in this world you should feel intimidated by.

But! But! That person fucked my spouse! They laughed at me! Shared intimacies! Wished me gone! Conspired against me! Tried to take my life and turn my children against me! They humiliated me!

Yes. Exactly. They’re scum.

Chumps, you didn’t do anything wrong. Not. One. Thing. You’re not the person with the dirty secret or the shame to carry. You brought your A game. You tried. You were committed to your marriage. There is no crime in being a chump. You have absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about or afraid of. The person who should feel mortified is the affair partner. Why should you retreat? Why should you skulk off upset? Hold your head high.

When you internalize that this person is pathetic — and you are not — the power balance will shift. You don’t have to be afraid to run into one of them. What are they going to do? Taunt you? Say nannernanner boo boo I fucked your spouse? Your response to that should be — you’re welcome to that sparkly dog turd. Best of luck to you.

There is no competition when you realize that this pitiful person is fighting for the attentions of a wing nut. Someone who most likely will betray them too, just like they betrayed you. You might look at them with an air of pity or mild disinterest. Like one of those news broadcasts about refugee camps in far away places. Oh. That’s sad. And remote. Huh. These things don’t end well…

Does that not seem satisfying? But what of the injustice! Those affair partners — why they just need a good talking to!

Save your breath. You might as well lecture a door post. You can’t shame these people. Let karma find them. They’ll learn soon enough what it is to be played by Mr. or Ms. Sparkles.

Still need a good line? My sister-in-law has a terrific one that goes: “Surely you must know what I think of you.”

Which I think is brilliant, because it’s all-purpose AND it leaves whatever insulting thing to their imaginations. If you have the misfortune of being cornered by a Schmoopie, say that — or nothing at all — and then just walk away. Nothing else is required.

This column ran previously. Please share your Schmoopie encounter strategies!

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Once upon a time I wanted to punch the OM in the face.

    Now (after some introspection) I don’t know whether to laugh at him (we have kids, so probably not the best response) or shake his hand and thank him for taking away the financially and emotionally abusive Ex and for underwriting her future without me….

    • I’m with you FSTL. I would never actually thank the OW (turned wife) but knowing what I know now and seeing my ex for what he really is, I sometimes feel grateful that she helped to liberate me from that life. It’s not likely I would have left otherwise since ex “seemed nice;” we were married for a long time and we have two (adult) children. In a sense their affair turned out to be my get out of jail free card.

      I’m not sure how I’d react if I ever saw her again but I’m certain I wouldn’t go out of my way to leave. Chump Lady is right. They are the pathetic ones; we did nothing wrong.

      • ” liberate me from that life”

        That’s it – you nailed it. I can’t imagine going back to her and her fake emotions and manipulations. Makes me cringe just thinking of it.

      • I haven’t quite reached the stage of grateful even though I have also realized how freeing it has been to discover the affairs of Narkles the Clown. My life is truly amazing now! I can hardly believe it. I’m still a bit childish. If I ran into the Flying Whore I would probably laugh uncontrollably and attempt to push out the words, “best of luck polishing that sparkly turd”
        Knowing what I know now, CLis right, they’re so weak and pathetic.

      • Cheatersuck – My get out of jail card! Exactly!!!

        My x was always creating drama in my life, but like you I stayed for way too long and would still be stuck in the seventh circle of hell had he not cheated with Miss Piggy!

        He would last at a job for a couple of years ( usually a very good one with lots of stress – mostly self induced ) and we moved constantly. Always putting out one financial disaster after another. The man could bleed money.

        Miss Piggy was in our lives as his “just a friend” co-worker for the last 3 years of our marriage. There were others looking back, but she was like glue. Married as well, so her husband and children were her “beard”.

        They came to our house. Our kids became friends. Her husband worked long steady hours and she spent most of her free time ( who needs to parent 3 young kids – you know – they are resilient and all that crap ) with my x, sometimes at our house!!!!

        I was like Princess Diana. My gut knew, but my head was slow putting all the puzzle pieces together. And I wanted to trust him!!!

        I still now get the pleasure of seeing her at our children’s events or other social obligations.
        I like to walk right up and say hello with a big shit eating grin on my face.

        She looks at her feet and usually mumbles something similar back. I mean – I should thank her for the freedom I have gained mid life!!!

        She is nothing. She is one of many I think and she won the booby prize. Good Luck with that!

        • Lucky,

          All so true! The AP and my EX married. She can’t even meet my eyes when we happen upon one another (not often)! Just looks at her feet and agrees with whatever I have to say. It’s beautiful!

          • That is a great contrast to what I feared would happen when I first run into the AP… now that these posts have reminded me of my worthiness and their false sense of grandiosity, I might just walk up to her and say in my most welcoming voice, “I am surprised that you felt comfortable enough to show up here! Good for you!” and keep on walking right past them…

            • yomama – now that you all got me thinking, as opposed to before when I never gave the scab any thought since she deserves N.O.N.E. Since I love to be a bit loud and surprise folks simply grocery shopping, I think I would run up to her and say – ‘OMG Kimmy! It’s been SO long since I’ve seen you’…and run up and hug her before she had a chance to breath. (I know her well) . And then I hope I’d just trot off. But, I totally intend to have words – too good an opportunity to pass up!

      • Thanks Guys – good for you Arnold!!!

        Some of us have been out on our own for much longer than others. My husband’s MLC ( yeah – sure – right ) lasted a total of 10 years. Let me tell you – I had my terrible moments too.

        We learn from our mistakes and we reflect, grow and move on. That is what makes us mighty!

  • Chump lady, I love you. I’ve read this post before, but I’m going to possibly really need this soon- thank you so much for rerunning it. I hope you have a good day.

  • I’m about 3 years out from the separation, but I get the ex’s girlfriends–or more accurately ex girlfriends–contacting me. They are all devastated by his treachery. He has cheated of course. And they call me, for some reason.

    The last one caught me in a humorous mood. All I could say was, “Welcome to the club. We have jackets!” It’s a line from the movie Shrek. But it works!

  • The first time I saw her after numerous D days, I told her in a public area, “You’re nothing but an old whore and everybody knows it!” My ex yelled at me later because I made her cry. Boo. Hoo. *sarcasm*

    Now, she is not worth the breath it takes to speak to her. She thinks she is so special because he married her. Little does she know, he is cheating on her and his mommy made him marry her in order to cover it up. They have cheated and swindled her so she has nothing and if she leaves, will have even less.

    If we are ever together for something for the kids (that is a whole other story), she DOES. NOT. EXIST. My ex DOES. NOT. EXIST.

    There are many more dynamics to this, but chump lady doesn’t have enough space for me to type all this. I have to deal with this the best I can.

  • My ex had me convinced that his ex wife was so crazy she might break into our house in the middle of the night and kill us, aka Broderick style. I can’t imagine what’s he’s convinced his current GF of. I do know that she is always on the look out for me, and the 1 time I spotted her she was gone before I realized who she was. (3 years and we live in the same school district & shop at the same stores so how have I not seen her?)

    Initially I was obsessed with what I would say to her, but now I just feel sorry for her. And grateful that she is housing him, so I don’t have to!!

  • At this point, I think I would thank her for taking baby man off my hands. So glad you now get to cater to his every whim and need 24 hours a day. Thank you for listening to his outrageously impractical dreams over and over again. Thank you for taking that fiscally stupid man out of my life. You get to support him now! Don’t forget to drop Everything and Everyone and run when his family needs, too!

    Bet you are living the dream. I know I am living much better now, thanks for that. Without you, I’d still be bending, twisting and pretzeling myself to accommodate him and his selfishness. You wanted him and his awesomeness….great, well it’s all yours now! Bwaaa!

    • Exactly! When I had the audacity to accurately peg the OW as a whore, he countered with, “At least that ‘whore’ cares how I feel,”. Of course she does, Babycakes! I’m sure Smoochie likes you better than living in the ghetto, though living with you is barely an upgrade. And who would know better than I….

  • This is scarily relevant to me at the moment. I’ve recently found out,after years of agonising bullshit,false reconciliation and gaslighting,the identities of my exes major affair partner who he was with for years before we broke up(was stunned)and also another woman who I was always suspicious of,whos husband actuallyleft her after finding out about her fling with my ex…if you include her own she’s actually been responsible for three marriage breakups. Trouble is I will most likely be seeing this particular one very soon as we frequent the same social scene and I’m not sure how to deal with her. Had the usual fantasies about burning her car etc. how to stay cool? Especially when I’ve had a drink…my temper can get thebetter of me….would love a witty one liner or suave crushing comment but I fear I will see her and all I will feel is humiliation and mockery :/

    • I also had “fear of the boogeyman” as CL so aptly puts it, so I asked my therapist and he said (not surprisingly) mostly what CL said. But the thing that has stuck with me is that he recommended, if it happens, that I should try to behave in a way that I can look back on later and be proud of. In other words — for me — that meant acting with dignity. No hissy fits, no exchange of barbs, no violence….. I’ve been fortunate (knock wood) and have never seen either of them, but if I do, this is the talisman I cling to: dignity.

      • When my kids did something stupid, Skanky “wrote” me a three-page letter that was the most self-aggrandizing, delusional piece of fiction I’ve ever read. She wanted me to “throw down my sword” (?) so we (me, X and Skanky) could “coparent” [our] children. Because it’s “what’s best for them.” She elevated her capacity for “forgiveness” to Mother Theresa status. I think she quoted from the Bible, too.

        She was so pleased with herself and her work of art that she also copied my attorney and my son’s therapist.

        Facts:

        1. A quick look at the Word properties let me know that in fact, X had written the letter while they were at work. She signed it.

        2. Both my attorney and my son’s therapist called me and told me to not even bother opening it because it was a huge violation of ethics and not worth my consideration. My attorney used it against X as proof of his bimbo’s interference in my parenting. And my son’s therapist told me that he finally understood that my sons and I were dealing with a very manipulative man.

        3. I never replied. The venomous email from X came two days later. Seems they wanted me to crawl to them for help. And I ignored them. That must have stung.

        4. I did send a copy to the director of human resources and Skanky and X’s boss. I told them that if I ever received another letter like that from their “company” personnel, I would file a harassment complaint. I wonder how that went over? 🙂 My attorney thought my response was perfect.

        Indeed, silence is the best reply to a fool. But the people in the fool’s orbit? Open game!

        I will never acknowledge Skanky. Ever. She means less than nothing to me.

      • Why is it that we, the chumps, are expected to act with grace in every aspect? I really don’t want to take the high road anymore. There is no benefit to it! All I hear over and over is you have to learn to accept and live with it. It doesn’t matter what the cheaters do bc they get a hall pass. Everyone tells me you may not like it but you have to accept it because you cannot change that he walked out, cheated, moved in his girl friend 3 months post divorce, buying a house together down the street, living the lavish lifestyle that use to be mine, teen child has to stay in the same household as the cheater and his mistress during his time, has all of the friends and family, so be the nice one. Nope!
        One of my biggest regrets during the divorce process was that I kept his affair and all of his lies a secret for 8 months because of my shitty lawyer who lead me to believe we could leverage it!! (It doesn’t matter in a no fault state!)So, now I am telling the world! But, no one cares or surprised anymore when there is an affair involved. It is almost expected today. I am more introverted. He is mister charming and everyone loves him-even the ones that know what he has done! It makes me crazy angry!

        If the mistress shows up to any of my daughter’s school or athletic events anytime soon, I will have a few words for her. I will be telling her about the first affair he had when I was pregnant. His family doesn’t even know about that one. I kept it quite! I am not going to sit there and not address the “bitch” in the room! Those days of sweeping everything under the rug and being quiet all of the time are gone!I am bat-shit mad!

        I may regret it one day. But, if so, I will just add it to the list!!

        • I feel the same way but combat it with the realization that if I ‘go there’, I am jumping down into the ditch with them and relating to them on their level, and I am above that.

  • I can so relate to this. Unfortunately I see AP almost everyday considering our kids are in the same grade and same school. How crazy is that. I see them around town all the time. It sucks when it’s in your face all the time. I have just gotten used to pretending they don’t even exist even when they are in front of me. That’s my way of getting through it.

    • Oh my god, you poor thing! I’m curious though, HOW does one react really when caught off guard in public? Some times I worry that I will run into OW at a grocery store since we live in r same neighborhood. Then I worry that I will not look good enough as I often run errands dressed like a slob. That would definitely give OW more validation.

      • You have to not care about how you look. It’s not about that, but about your character. I hope she does see you dressed like a slob. That’s like you saying, “This is me not giving a shit! Hope you’re having fun with your shiny new turd. I have better things to spend my time on!”

      • Actually not too long ago I ran in to both of them food shopping together at our local grocery store and I literally lost my shit. Usually I am very calm and ignore them but it was rough day. She ran out of the store and sat in the car until he was done. I don’t like to react because i feel like that gives them power so I wasn’t very happy with myself that day. 20 years and he never went food shopping with me. Just drove me mad.

      • You look through them, like they are a piece of furniture that’s always been there. If it talks, you look over it’s ear with a slightly bored puzzled expression. If you have to talk to it, pretend you are the queen having to talk to a child visitor. Polite, distant and a little condescending.
        Pisses them off, but no one can say you aren’t behaving. 😉

    • Marisa, I’m in the same boat as you. See OW frequently, as she had the nerve to move into my neighborhood with my EH, and send her son to my kid’s school. I even see her EH occasionally, and sometimes think about introducing myself to him to get some scoop on how crazy she is. But seeing as it’s been almost 2 years since D-Day, and we are now divorced, why stir the pot? They are two immature, delusional crazy people who have to plaster their true love all over FB (I’ve finally blocked both of them) and in front of me whenever I happen to see them. While I’m still traumatized by all that he (and she) did to me, I’m beginning to see the true benefits of being away from him and his disordered, toxic personality. Still rebuilding my life, so things are difficult and lonely, but I can see that at some point down the road, I will be better off away from him. I can’t say the same for my kids though, and that’s the part that will always make me sad. They will never recover from their family being broken apart, from their Daddy, who they worshipped, leaving to move in with another woman, who they are now forced to live with half their lives (and her son, as well). How he could do this to any child, let alone one who has autism and has a terrible time with change, is beyond me.

      • It’s funny you mention speaking to the OW’s husband. My situation is made so much worse by the fact that the OW myself and ex were all very much intermingled. Our kids were on the same sports teams and go to the same schools. We would go out together as families after games or a sporting event. Never thought in a million years that this would happen. But anyway once the discovery happened.. her husband and I grew a kinship of sort and compared tons of notes. It helped talking with him because he understood exactly how I felt.

        • Marisa, sounds familiar…OW and husband lived out of state in my case but were close friends thru my husband…even drove us to our honeymoon suite after the wedding!!! (now THAT’s weird for me to remember….). Anyways, after discovery, he and I did find a sort of kinship…and compared a lot of notes. It really helped cement in my head what an utter liar my STBX is, and how his OW has done exactly the same mindfuckery to her own family. The knowledge helped me file, and helped me understand how much the OW and STBX were manipulating us both…it explained so much! We still talk occasionally…sometimes it is too close to home, and too much a violation of NC to discuss things with the OW’s husband. Other times it is incredibly healing since yes, he knows EXACTLY how I feel, and we were able to talk things out when the rest of our friends were tired of hearing about it.
          I hope to high heaven I never see the OW again, and have told STBX that (which he HATES to hear since he thinks she makes the sun and stars shine). I am hoping their relationship will implode before it’s an issue. Here’s hoping.

    • I’m lucky in this regard. His slut/whore/bitch lives in another state. He has fallen for a female version of himself — no surprise there for a narcissist, huh? She has her kids 2 weekends a month. The other two they fly to each other’s places for their LOVE. I’m sure she has NO FUCKING IDEA that she is the latest in a long string of affairs.

      I saw a Valentine’s Day card. She’s never been so in love before. He makes her sooooo happy. She can’t wait to spend a lifetime with him.

      She has two young children, ages 7 & 9. Think Mr. N is going to be theee for them? Ha! He adores his daughter, but any other kid is nothing. But he’s been lying her her entire life so I’m not sure I’d call that love.

  • Timely, yes as I’m at the airport, the only place I might ever run into Susan of Seattle (or Dee of Boston) … I have long had a fantasy that I would scream “Hey, you fucked my dead husband” but I probably wouldn’t.

    • Unicorn 🙂

      I like this and applaud you doing this if ever you run into them in a large public area. My first image is of them fucking your husband after he had died. People would have to stop and think for a moment and I am sure it would cause quite the stir….

      “Excuse me – I think I know you from somewhere….oh, that’s right YOU FUCKED MY DEAD HUSBAND!”

      Excellent !!!!

      • Ok Unicorn – stupid old laptop put the wrong face on there. – it should be a big smiley face. Please ignore grumpy!

  • Meeting the skank (frequently) is my reality unfortunately. When she cheated on and left him after 3 years she moved out of her small flat in town and into a rented house ….. wait for it ….. just across the field at the back of my house. A very close friend of mine has a small cafe/bar and I stop in to see him about twice a week for a coffee. Our kids grew up together and we go way back. Anyway, the skank and her new boyfriend are “frequent flyers” there too and since she is originally from the village where I live knows most people. I had met her boyfriend there (before I knew they were together) and always said “bonjour” to him so it was a bit weird when I saw them together and ignored them. Now when I go there I just say a general “bonjour” to anyone who is there and then sit back and watch the skank drink her bottle of whiskey. She is 10 years younger than me but to say she looks like a peasant is insulting to peasants – although I think she may still have straw in her clogs (as they say over here). The only thing I do make sure though is that if I stop in at the cafe I am always dressed nicely, hair washed (I don’t think the skank knows what shampoo is) and I have make-up on. To say he traded down is an understatement. One thing my friend did tell me though, is that she told him she had to leave my ex as she was afraid he would kill her – and on that I agree 100%. Other than that, I should really thank her for taking him off my hands – my get out of jail free card, so to speak – as I am now happy, healthy and solvent. Bring it on skank.

  • This is one of those times when it is therapeutic to have rage fantasies and/or deliver searing one liners in your mind, though in reality, it is most often best to avoid letting an asshole pull your integrity down to their level.

    If you are at an event, having it out in any way can make the other person’s event suddenly be about your ex’s affair, which is misplaced (and can be hurtful to the hosts).

    If you are in a public place, a brief send-off might work well, but a substantial interaction could get you on YouTube. 🙂 Same with telephone, email, and text – you can be recorded and it can be used against you (legally, with your kids and friends and “friends”, etc.)

    The best revenge you can really muster is a solid and joyful life that is uncomplicated by assholes. It is AOK to have a zero tolerance policy for assholes. You don’t have to talk to a person to whom you don’t wish to talk. We are self actualized adults and we can walk away from assholes.

    And, we are all the better for it in the long run. 🙂

    • Excellent advice. I’ve been writing my ideas down in a place no one else can read and only sharing them with close friends and family. I’m very proud of my creativity insulting her, though. (Credit due to CL/CN for a LOT of inspiration…)

      I look forward to the day, where as CL describes, she doesn’t occupy any of my “mental real estate.” Meh is a beautiful future place.

  • Hey Chumps 🙂 Two years and half ago when I discovered about the OW I wanted to punch her… six months later, when she send me a Facebook friendship request to show me the ring she got from ex… I had wild dreams of revenge. Now… well, I smile 🙂 I am thankful… I mean I don’t miss ex and I am happy that he is out of my life. She can enjoy the bullshit. I have no contact whatsoever with him or her, but if one it will happen to meet them… I guess I will show them my best “cat smile” and I will walk away happily dancing the samba like the queen I am… To the newbie my advice is to do not waste time or energy behind the OW / OM, when ex told me about the cheating expecting a tantrum I told him that I was no dog fighting for a used bone… I am still freaking proud of that. So keep up with no contact and avoid wasting energy behind these people… Give yourself all the love and the attention you deserve. This is I guess the best advice I can give you… Or at least, this is what I did and keep doing. Wish u all a great week!
    Love
    Emm@

    • “No dog looking for a used one”

      Well done Emm and good for you for taking the high road. But one can always dream of revenge ?

      • I guess I am taking the best revenge 😛 two years after the breakup I look younger and prettier, I dropped 20 kilos, live abroad and have amazing friends … Dating sucks (I am 40) but is ok… I mean, honestly I do not feel ready and I am not in an hurry… there are things in life than love that I guess I need to explore! I feel lucky that our “lovestory” that lasted over a decaded… ended up before our marriage… seriously… I went through some hard time emotionally… but at least economically speaking I always had control of my life… beside, there were no kids involved… To tell you the truth in the first months I was keeping a diary, i love writing… so I was “emotionally” throwing up everything on the page… after two weeks I added at the beginning “this is just a fictional work… not planning of doing anything written on it”… just in case! It helped… I also wrote me a letter, describing my feelings and my pain. I read it recently… made me feel amazing, honestly. I walked a long way… not in Meh kingdom yet, but I feel close. No idea right now if ex is still with her or not… I know that i blocked the other woman from any social media, cause she started to following me on Pinterest (seriously… pinterest????) and Instagram… So I blocked her… 🙂

    • Special kinda bat shit crazy sending a “friend request” just to show off a ring received from your married lover to his wife. Good luck to your ex I have a feeling he’s gonna need it:)

      • I have the same feeling… and I am just happy I have nothing to do with the two of them any more! I am pretty sure they “deserve” each other somehow. I have learned that is way better to be alone that feeling lonely – an hurt – in a couple… I just hope she has done with the stalking cause is weird… seriously
        Emma@

  • Love this column. Love the line from your sister-in-law too. Perfect for quite a few occasions I think. Might even try it on my teen while looking at his bedroom….
    As to the OW I think the extent to which they can wreak havoc can differ.
    In my case they were all in Asia so I don’t feel vulnerable through geographic proximity. I know this is important because when I later found out one had visited the UK I felt very threatened and she became more of a presence in my head.
    Also he had already finished with one andcwas trying to unpeel a second from much of his life. He was at that time with the third.
    The second was so young and he was so disinterested and mean speaking about her that she never really became more than a shadow.
    The first knew a great deal about us and me in particular – she would pump him for info about us all the time. This felt horrible but she was older than me and really not attractive and wrote such spectacularly awful things about him when she found out he was cheating on her too that she was easy enough to overcome.
    The third for me was a big problem. Younger but not more attractive just different, she was threatening because she seemed everything I wasn’t but wanted to be. She was independent, hippy, easy going, travelled, fun, thin etc. And he obviously liked her a lot. Had fun. Was becoming invested. So it was the emotional closeness they had that hurt most but he didn’t leave me for her – it never crossed his mind. If he had I might very well still be struggling with her. She wrote a good apology email (I can post in the forum if anyone wants a read that actually did make me feel a bit better even though I hate to admit it).
    I made him tell me everything he had told them. I made him tell me everything they did. I made him tell me everything that they would not want me to know. It was a reclaiming power thing I guess. And from all he said I did stop him talking about them eventually as they did seem screwed up and pathetic. And he was treating them as badly as me. Difference is they signed up eyes wide open as they all knew he was married with three boys. They were doing the pick-me dance. My middle son is NC when he found out his dad had shared intensely personal stuff about him with them all.
    Now seven months later I don’t really ever think of them. I did think I would send a copy of the divorce decree to #3 but really can’t be bothered yet.
    I would not want to meet them but would not feel cowed anymore. They are not worth a fraction of us and they know it somewhere, no matter how many defenses they put up.
    Sorry if all this is a bit off topic. Just had to get all that off my chest.

    • Sad there are so many out there that knowingly get into a relationship with married men/women. It’s as bad as the one having the affair. Lots of Bad apples out there.

    • What is it with those British and Aussie men getting it on with Asian chicks?

      My Aussie ex had many many Thai girlfriends, but never brought any on to Aussie soil because he knew they were gold diggers, and his 19 year old Aussie AP wouldn’t have liked it, though he did take her to Thailand with him. I think he was expecting her to double team him with one of them.

      They were all ugly, as he had a propensity towards 10 year old boys, but was too screwed up to admit it. Of course, they were even uglier inside for disrespecting themselves enough to let that morbidly obese 51 year old go anywhere near them… but designer handbags are expensive, and they needed money. The Aussie AP needed a car.

      I’m glad to be rid of them all, and am now back in the US. 20 years, no kids. I am free. I never have to see that fat turd nor his ugly whores again in this lifetime!

      • I can tell you there were times when I was backpacking and roughing it in South America and Africa when I understood why a woman who will never have running water in her shack would do anything for what we take for granted here. I remember once after weeks without a shower and freezing at night in the Andes, stepping into a trickle of hot water and thinking “Yes, I would sell my body for that if I was stuck in this kind of life. I completely understand it now. And if I had kids on top, I would sell it cheap!”
        I have some sympathy for some of these “golddiggers” in those countries. None for the APs in the developed world. Especially women today because other generations fought so hard for financial independence, access to nearly all careers and these skanks are shitting on all that hard work.

        • Mine is actually an American. And his Asian AP’s were highly educated and two had great jobs. One was a PhD student.
          One AP was Iranian also highly educated. Bloody meet ups. That’s where they hooked up.

          • I make no excuses for educated and relatively well off women, but I’ve been to places where it’s obvious that my livestock have much better lives than the people there. I’d rather be a sheep on my farm always knowing I will have something to eat today than be a human in a lot of places. That’s the kind of people I mean when I say I can understand it.

        • I can 100% agree with that. Paid prostitutes are just doing their jobs. It’s sad and gross but they get paid to have sex. If it was a hooker that my STBX was involved with I could understand it has literally nothing to do with her. Its like getting mad at the girl behind the counter at a fast food restaurant for selling your WH a burger when he’s on a diet. Sorry. She does what she needs to to get by.

    • I hear you about proximity… me and ex live in different countries as well… I know I won’t see him. Going through the process was easier. The no – contact was much easier as well. I did not ask him about the other woman… I mean, he just left me withouth turning back and vanished from my life. Like he did not care. More than ten years together and he left without turning back. Honestly I felt miserable at the beginning… then I have undestood that somehow I was lucky… he spared me the shit and all the cake- begging. Sometimes I wonder… My gut is telling me that this ow was not the first one… I wonder how many and for how long… but then… there is so many things I want to do. I feel like I have lost enough time of my life thinking about him. And whatever he will tell me I know I won’t believe him… Sometimes I feel quiet a moron… like “how didn’t I see all this coming? Why did’t I see the red flags?” … I am giving myself an hard time… But it is getting better. Mine was not with an asian chick cause he never went to Asia… but I found on his phone one day picture and pictures of young chicks… he told me that he was nothing. I believed him… this happened some years before the breakup. I should have known better. But again… went this way. Send u all hugs
      Emm@

  • I don’t know how I missed this column when it first ran!

    I used to think of running into the OM. I always pictured myself just laughing at him, though. I never thought he was better than me, except in his ability to provide novelty to my wife after I’d been with her for 8 years and he knew her for 8 months.

    Well done, sir! Very impressive! You really proved you’re the better man!

    Later on, after I left my wife, and the fuzzy details of his “ex girlfriend and mother of his son” were cleared up (that “ex” girlfriend was actually a fiancé, and then a wife), I stopped finding him humorous. Then I just found him to be twice a loser…like my wife.

    I do feel bad that the OM’s ex has to deal with my ex, however. I do like the, “Surely you know what I think of you.”

    I’d probably be harsher, and say, “Surely you know what the world thinks of you.” But it would make no difference. Cheaters and APs have convinced themselves that their actions–even if wrong–don’t truly result in negative views of their character.

  • Chump Lady, I really needed to read this again. My Ex, is now back with Schmoopie, and they both live 5 minutes away from me. It is now my biggest fear of running into them together. I almost want it to happen already, so the worst case scenario is no longer in my head.

    I have a second job at a convenience store, which is in between their places, it’s just a matter of time before they’ll stop in there. This is where I need to be strong and hold my head high, because in my mind, they’ll be laughing all the way home, that I now “have” to work there. But deep down, I know better, I know that I work there because I’m strong, and the extra income helps.

    My daughter graduates High School this spring and I’m pretty sure he’ll be bringing her, even though I’ve asked him not to (as if he cares what I want). Another Shit sandwich I’ll have to eat, if he’ll bring her, and I for sure won’t be making a scene there. I will be sitting with my Son (whom does not speak to his Dad since he got back with Schmoopie) and by my 3 best girlfriends that also have kids graduating on that day.

    But come picture time after ceremonies.. Oh man, I’ll have to use your great line, there’s no way I won’t say anything at all to that Whore (who was a “friend”).

    My family (including Ex) speak another language, thinking that I’ll speak it only – to piss her off, she won’t know what I’m saying, LOL.

    • Speaking another language would be great, but you have to do it while looking at her and then laughing uproariously! I mean, you could actually just be talking about your vegetable garden but don’t forget the staring and laughing!

    • Well MightyAgain I think you rock, for real! You have a son and two jobs… I mean, you are so cool! You are strong and you own it. You can look at yourself in the mirror every morning and be proud of what you see. Seriously, if they would do something like this, coming to your convenient store to “mock” you they would just show how pathetic they are… Doing something like this with your daughter is even worst… Which kind of huan being behave like this? Ohhhh wait, I know the answer… the shitty ones. What are they expecting to gain? For the foreign language… why bother? I mean… why giving her the satisfaction to think she is important? She is not… She is just a weak little creature… don’t you worry that all these bad decisions she is making (same thing for your ex) will bite their ass later in life… Sending you huge hugs 🙂
      Emm@

  • The only one of the many I encountered by coincidence, I just wrote a note with the heading “take a number and the # 6” and a phone number for a mental Heath Center and handed it to him.

    The little shrimp ran away like a little girl.

  • My X moved his girltress (half his age) in from out of town… 4 months after our separation… In the building next door from where I moved to… 50/50 custody schedule for our kiddo then in elementary school… She got so anxious she could not sleep while at his place, she could not understand and got very anxious, he of course did not see anything wrong and said he loved his new girlfriend and was a happy kid…

    I was searching for advice online on how I was going to cope with our kiddo living with the X and his girltress… That is how I found CL & CN…

    An oasis of solace and great realistic advice, yep the shit sandwiches have kept on coming. But overall, two and a bit years past DDay, and over a year divorced, I haven’t address my X in anything but our parenting software and text in over two years…

    Karma to me is them living together, their relationship is a drama central from what I hear.

    Yep I still live next door, and I know that they are the ones who shamed themselves and have clearly shown that they are disgusting individuals… The loudest F*U to the disordered is silence, and that’s all they get from me.

    • Chumptitude
      You are impressive! I could not stand that at all. It does show their utter lack of human understanding that they have chosen to do that. How on earth can you go even grey rock with them so close? My imagination would torture me into the ground after a week (or less).
      Hugs to you. And hats off!

      • Thanks Cap and Tempest, I stayed the course largely through the support of family and friends as well as the amazing strength, wisdom, and insights of CN… Through the hell of my divorce, I kept on going, and yes, the pain is intense, but who’s going to be there for our kiddo if not me?

        All this does not come without costs. I’m diligently working to reduce my cPTSD symptoms. It is a rough road to parallel parent with a disordered fuckwit, but what’s the alternative?? Staying knowingly married to a cheating lying coward? Nope.

      • Thank you neverwouldhaveimagined – Like your moniker states so well, I never would have imagined I would stumble upon the secret email account my then husband was using for his extra-curricular activities with his grad whore.

        In addition to knowing about their affair, I have that number, 500 sent emails to her behind my back… Like they say, one lie is a mistake, two lies is deception, three is a lifestyle. I did not want to have any part in his lifestyle.

        If you’re going through hell keep going neverwouldhaveimagined, better days are ahead!

      • AllOutofKibble – Thank you for the compliment and for all the wisdom you share on CN, your advice and contributions are a great source of strength and solace in my chump recovery journey.

  • I would’ve seen the still-married-to-her-poor-chump-of-a-husband homewrecker at my second son’s recent wedding, but he and my fabulous new DIL proactively told her and my ex that out of respect and consideration for me, she was NOT invited to any wedding-related events… no inclusion in the family photography session, no rehearsal dinner, no wedding, and no reception (robbing she and my philandering ex of the opportunity for a public and supposedly legitimizing POTG dance). Frankly, I was relieved I didn’t have to breathe the same air as she. But before I knew she wasn’t going to show, I tried to come up with a zinger of a one-liner, something like “You do know you’re #14, right”? Then I’d smile sweetly, turn and walk away.

    Whenever my third son chooses to settle down, I guess I’ll have another wedding to attend. I’m Zero Contact with my ex so will handle him exactly as I’ve done for the past two weddings (completely ignore). Who knows, maybe by then, #14 will be history and I’ll have to rub elbows with #16, #18 or #20.

    • I am hoping to completely ignore my ex at my son’s wedding in July but I know he will want to play the “hey look everyone, we’re all good friends here”. I’m gonna cut that down pretty sharp I can tell you. The new gf is not the AP so I have no ax to grind with her and will feel rude for ignoring her but hey, I guess as long as I am polite when introduced I can leave it at that. Poor sod, living with that piece of shit!

    • My daughter got married a year and a half ago and she told her father that he was invited but no way that his gf was invited. gf didn’t go, her father went and spent the entire time looking like he was constipated and just staring at me with sad sausage eyes. He finally corners me and I used the wow, bummer, really answers, because I told my daughter that I would be civil. Totally pissed him off but he had the sadz, so couldn’t show his anger. Made me giggle later on with my friends there. It was a good day.

  • When I was trying to reconcile with ex, I was very brainwashed by the RIC advice. Their position 90% of the time is “Don’t confront AP. She knows things you don’t. You’ll get hurt.”. That kind of garbage.

    So I went on with my ex sneaking around with the skank and didn’t confront this person. She really was built up to superhuman status at that time, in my mind. I thought she was so beautiful ( although I hadn’t seen her), so smart, so witty. So classy and sophisticated. Blah blah blah.

    One day I’d snapped. I had enough. I called the witch. We spoke on the phone a couple of minutes, during which she called ME the c-word. Say what? Then the conversation moved to texting.

    Yes, she was as nasty to me as the RIC predicted. Repeated things ex said about me. Called me names. Threatened me. The bitch even told me she hated me. Again, say what?

    I am so glad I did this. It was the turning point in relationship with ex. This chick was beyond PATHETIC, as Chump Lady says. A vapid, whiny, immature, wingnut loonbait whore. After this, she was pretty much gone from my mind, and my whole perspective changed. On both her and the cheater ec who affiliated himself with this demon. What losers she and ex both are. Don’t fear these creeps, Mandi. They aren’t worth it.

  • You will like this one! See, they have been carrying on for almost 4 years now, they both think I don’t know.(Long story but just know I have the power of reveal and when I am able to go-BOOM!) So I was Manager of a Furniture store, he was remodeling the home behind it for my boss last year. She came in to MY store for me to wait on her while she was texting him. He came in to get my “Lunch”order , saw her and smiled so sweetly and told me, “You have a customer.” Dropping his head like a boy in love! Oh how sweet to rub it in. I did not wait on her, in fact I left her to roam about alone giving no Customer service at all. He left, she followed about 3 minutes later. That night, I put a Voice Recorder in my Master bathroom and got a conversation! (along with the sex) keep in mind I was asleep 3 feet away. They have an Anniversary coming up on March 17th-ish. How sweet!

    • Sick Fuckers “Living a Nightmare”. They just love to put their AP”s under the “unsuspecting” spouse’s nose. They get special sparkly narc feelings from doing these things ( ask me how I know ).

      Sounds like you are lining up your ducks and have a plan. Also sounds like you are well ready to be rid of your soon to be x husband.

      You will have to let us all know how that goes. I hope they enjoy their stupid anniversary. Geeze….

    • Wow, what bastards, lining you up to wait on the AP! Oh man, I wish I could be there when you drop the bombshell!! And recording them —– I am in awe of your shadow.

  • I didn’t know the extent of the affair until I talked to the OW since asswipe was lying about the relationship. She was duped just like I was. He told her he was single and lived with a roommate and a whole bunch of other lies. She even cried on the phone since she couldn’t believe she was ruining a marriage. I told her only one person was to blame.

    So a year later, which was just a couple weeks ago I asked her if she would meet me. Don’t ask why. Maybe closure or just that I can’t stop thinking about all this. she agreed and I never thought about it from her perspective, but for a year she felt sick to her stomach and couldn’t really talk to anyone about it because she felt like she did something wrong and has a hard time trusting guys. In the end we’re just part of the same club where we got screwed, literally and otherwise, by the same asshole

  • Well I will never meet the OM, he died in a plane crash. Didn’t like the guy for obvious reasons but certainly didn’t want him dead, and as far as I’m aware it recorded as pilot error. Did he take his own life? No idea, and sorry if it sounds cold, but I don’t really give that thought much headspace. The sad thing is that his widow killed herself a year later, did she know about my STBXW and her husband? I’m pretty sure she did..It may not be the main reason she took her own life but it’s probably a factor in it. Cheaters can leave such a trail of destruction behind them.

    My fellow chumpy girlfriend handled her own situation very well with her Ex and the AP when they met, she smiled, said “hello” and ignored her for the rest of the event.

  • I have yet to run into her or see her with my ex. I think the day I do, it will throw me into a lot of pain all over again. How do you ever recover from adultery?

    • I was thinking of this when I was watching the Academy Awards — not only have many of those folks been cheated on, but all of their exes’ exploits are splashed all over every tabloid and TV channel every day. It’s easy to think they’ve got it made with their beauty and wealth, but I’ll bet there’s some genuine emotional grieving, as well, and I don’t envy them having to watch the whole world celebrate their betrayal. It’s bad enough (for me) that Facebook exists.

    • Follow the steps here. No contact. Gray rock. Rebuild your own life. Try not to waste your thoughts on them. Therapy helps. Reconnect to the things you love. Celebrate your freedom from a cheater.

      Hugs. Peace.
      aeronaut

    • I don’t know. Apparently my husbands friend gets her hair done at the same place I do. I was waiting one day for a haircut and this woman with her hair all foiled gets to the door to leave and turns to announce she’s leaving girls. It hits me about a minute later who it was. We’ve never talked in person but have texted. I am very sure it hit her a few seconds later from the proof on her FBI page. She put up these pictures of a woman who had gone to a personal trainer over months. The little frames of the change and then her comments to let her know if anyone wanted the name. She is a workout queen and nine years younger than me. She’s lovely and evil!

  • People told me that one day I would feel sorry for her. I’m 5 days out from Dday and just waiting on the divorce decree. As soon as the judge granted the divorce, he moved ho-chick in with him, in get this…his parents basement. He’s 40, she’s 32. At that age, I already had a house for 2 years so there is no way some man who got me the permanent label of homewrecking whore is going to move me into his parents basement. As one of my friends told me “Nothing has changed but his address”. He’ll probably be good to her for a minute longer, but once things get rough, he’ll just revert to old habits and just wash, and repeat.

    My kids do not know yet that he has been cheating with her ALL of their lives and even though she is there when they come for visitation, they have very little contact with her. They are very bitter about the breakup and the only reason I haven’t told them is that I’m waiting for the child support payments to start coming directly out of his paycheck so that he cannot try to withhold it in retaliation. They were 4 and 6 when we split and crying everyday about it. Now that they are older, and he is still with her, they need to hear the truth now. And knowing my kids, they will HATE her once they now. On more than one occasion, he left the money for the kids with her to pass on to me. Part of me laughs at this. He used marital money (aka my money) to finance his whoredom. Now she can watch much more money come out of his hands to take care of his kids. And even the money that he stands to get from the divorce ( when our youngest turns 21—-12 years from now, lol) will likely have to be given back to me cause he has to pay for their college education. Hope she’s not counting on that…

    I have not had much contact with her since the split, he seems to be hiding her…if what they are doing is ok, why hide her? Honey, if he is your secret, you are not the only secret…watch out!

  • What a great article!

    I have run into the AP ~ at our small local grocery store.

    She was about 6 steps ahead of me entering the store when she realized who I was.

    She got very nervous and began an excited conversation with someone she knew in the store while I walked calmly by seemingly oblivious to who she was.

    She is nothing. She did not take my husband from me ~ he did. And he did me a favor.

    • Yes, when I caught them together I addressed only him. Cheater was the problem. AP was inconsequential. She wasn’t the first and won’t be the last.

  • I had a dream last night that I tried to run over the OM in my car. The dream notwithstanding, I don’t think about him so much any more as much as how badly my ex-wife has used me and lied to me all these years – and in virtually every aspect of our lives. I now primarily think about her behavior and her actions, and I can barely stand to look at her.

    It’s not even the affair that angers me (it does), so much as the lying to get me to buy this or that, to pay for this or that, to convince me that I was in a committed relationship so I’d stick around and help her out — all while she was planning her next move once she was done with me. She’s moving out (thank God), but I can clearly see her personality coming through for what it is, especially now at the end. She has all the money I saved while she blew all her money on gym memberships, yoga pants, personal trainers, and plastic surgery (thanks no-fault divorce!!) and has no self-awareness or shame about any of it. Everything she’s taking from our house is the nicest stuff we have (all the furniture she convinced me to buy while she was having her A these past several years). She knows exactly what she wants – again no surprise as she seems to have been planning this out for a long time. Meanwhile, I still feel like I’m living in the Twilight Zone. I point her actions out to her, but all I get back is the thousand-yard stare. It’s really disturbing to me that I chose this person to marry and have children with, and I’m embarrassed around my friends and family to even have to talk about her.

    Anyway, if it wasn’t for the fact that my kids would have to deal with them, I would love nothing more than for my ex to end up with the OM – but that would require him to leave his wife, so I’m not getting my hopes up. Given their nature, they’d no doubt screw each other over eventually. I’m no marriage counselor, but selfishness, lying and hiding doesn’t seem to be a great foundation to build a relationship upon. It would be a disaster to be a part of, but it would be semi-interesting to watch from afar, sort of like watching a weapons test. There’d be a lot of loud noises and explosions for a while, but when it’s over, we’d all just go home.

    • Blindside, I was screwed over by my ex. We earned decent money together but every penny we had went on his “toys” – Toyota Landcruiser – he rolled it one month after I paid if off. He has wrecked two other cars, I have a whole separate file on money we had to pay out to repair other people’s cars with his drink-driving, the guitar collection. I could go on. I am now living on half our previous income but guess what, I have savings in the bank, all the bills are paid, and I am happy. He went on invalidity and guess what, all his personal debts were paid off because of the invalidity. All the joint debts (which he took out in both our names) were handed over to me in the divorce. But you know what, it was worth every penny to be rid of the tosser, so keep the faith, you are so much better off without her.

      • Thanks Attie. Yes, I know that I will be better off soon……it’s just so hard to come to the realization that our purpose in their lives was just to be a provider instead of a partner.

        • I’m on the other end of that, Blindside. I took on all of the parenting, at his suggestion, so that he could focus on launching and growing a business. All of his success was built on my back. Now, when we should be planning happy retirement and celebrating flight of our kids, I’m suddenly erased. Yes, we were both definitely used. Big sigh. Give yourself time. I think I have about reached acceptance, but then it turns out I have a ways to go.

  • All my rage was turned towards my X. I jack-hammered his “reputation”.
    The schmoopie was a nobody – living off her then husband – no education,never held a job down, was kicked out of the local RedCross while volunteering there, the list goes on.
    Tried her best to rub it in my face, but never gave her the satisfaction of being” important”.
    I consider her a POS – the kind that floats to the surface and exasperates you; as you try to flush it down the toilet-the umpteenth time!

    • Yes, cheater was the real problem. CL is right. AP’s are pathetic. I thought this OW had to be amazing. No, not at all. Cheater just wanted cake, and I was done compromising my values and covering for him because I thought I could save our marriage.

  • ” The ex liked to tell me she was prone to violent rages! alcoholism! drama! (Projection much, dude?) Very convenient — if the cheater tells the Schmoopie and the spouse that the other one is CRAZY, well, hey, they might not compare notes. Unified Theory of Cake and all. Don’t talk to each other! You don’t know what she’ll do!” The Limited used to say, “I found someone, want a divorce and don’t ruin it for me.” Obviously, his well practiced narrative left out the fact that he was a serial cheater who dated multiple women at a time, told them he was unhappy for years, and the only criteria for winning the prize was to be the first to fuck him in a hotel. He never wanted our paths to intersect.

    Once I met Nanthony face to face it was over for me. I had found a therapist and CL. This was his final destination and when to his surprise, I filed and he was stuck with it. Previously, he would find another woman, I would fight for him and win the pickme dance. I relived the infatuation, devalue, and discard fazes repeatedly for 36 years.

    At first the Limited bragged to his adult children that he liked her CRAZY. He viewed it as something positive; I guess compared to living with a hard working decent wife and mother with a moral compass.
    Pretty soon the complaints started rolling in to his children about Nanthony, her addictions, abuse, son, and granddaughter. Her violent rages were due to borderline personality disorder. She was told not to come to my daughters work place where she caused a scene.

    Initially, I had chest pains when she harassed me in public places. Yet she was the one who gave me insight into just how disordered the Limited had always been. She became his voice box spewing out all the lies he told her to justify fucking a married man and rescuing him from abuse.

    I would never thank Nanthony for interrupting a cycle of abuse I had tolerated for a lifetime. She was the most needy and desperate one he happened upon who wanted to be someone’s dream girl after a lifelong search for a good guy. She has knowledge of his serial cheating and believes he will never cheat on her. However, she knows the truth and with attachment disorder she clings to an illusion and he has lost all independence as she calls him frantically each and every time he is away. The madness is hers to live now, not mine.

    The way I finally got her out of my life was to repeatedly call the police and finally fill out a report. The devaluation cycle has already started as he insisted on her seeing a therapist while he is seeking new supply. No contact is a lifestyle as I have set boundaries. Rather than thanking the OW, I thank Tracy. She is the voice that finally spoke to me. And my therapist who literally jumped out of his seat and told me to file.

    • Yes, Doingme. You are so mighty. I believe the cycle would have continued repeatedly for me, too. I found CL and realized the only way to make him stop hurting me was to get out. I’m sorry you had to involve the police. OW sounds like a disordered piece of work.

    • Narcs and borderlines are very attracted to one another. Initially. However, the narc will eventually grow irritated or bored with the borderline, but he then finds out she is not that easy to discard and can be quite vengeful. That is when you grab the popcorn.

      • Yes, that is the dynamic exactly, KB22. I’m hoping he hangs in there for a while as I am quite sure he is using the excuse of having my health benefits to keep him from marrying her. Once I change my job, he will lose them. I am sure she will pressure him into marrying. Then the second part of my plan will happen automatically. It will be a domino effect into his own self created hell.

        The biggest ‘mistake’ a cheater makes is to underestimate the power of a chump. The one thing I can count on in the special delivery he shall receive is that narcissists are predictable if nothing else.

  • The only schmoopie I ever met was the one who helped break up our marriage. After cheater ex announced ILYBINILWY and he was madly in love with her, he waited for fireworks. He got hmmmm, really? When I am blindsided, I tend to go icy quiet to give myself time to think, a holdover from my childhood with two narc parents. I will say that I never slept in the same bed with him again.

    We normally went to an Alanon meeting together as kind of a date thing. You know, like trying to improve the marriage? Ha! Yeah, right! Well a few days after DD we walked in to the place where the meeting was held. I had to chair the meeting that particular day. I settled myself in at the table in the front of the room with the co-chair. Just as we were about to begin the meeting, in waltzed this plain Jane brunette and plunks herself down next to my husband. I opened the meeting in the usual way. Meanwhile they started to canoodle. She had her hand on his knee. Well it is a good thing I am blessed with a great poker face. At first I thought about going over and slapping the crap out of both of them! Then I decided to hang on to my dignity and just chair the goddamn meeting. Everyone knew we were married and kept looking at them and then at me. I pointedly ignored them.

    Well, I made it through the meeting and afterwards I went into the bathroom and cried for a few minutes. Then I splashed cold water on my face, put my poker face back on and went out to the car, ignoring them saying goodbye on the porch. When cheater ex got in the car, I calmly told him, “You want her, you got her! Let’s go home and pack your shit.” He didn’t expect that! He was all like …Wait a minute, wait a minute! I need time to make up my mind! I gave him three days. He supposedly picked us, but of course he actually went more underground with the affair.

    I think he was hoping for a catfight. He told me later that I didn’t fight for him which meant I didn’t love him enough to fight for him. I, on the other hand, saw fighting for someone who had so enjoyed publicly humiliating me as an added insult. Oh HELL NO!

    A few months later after I took the boys and left his sorry ass, he took a different job that paid about a sixth of what he had been making, so he wouldn’t have to pay much in child support. The fountain of money dried up and schmoopie dumped him, I’m sure for greener pastures. Yeah, true love there!

    My life today is pretty much serene and peaceful. Of course there are ups and downs but no drama, just the way I like it. Don’t miss the shithead at all.

      • And just to add I love reading your posts here and in the forums (is it ok if it’s for a selfish reason?). You write about stuff you have been through and somehow although I am kind of cut off from some of my own feelings about my stuff in the past, reading your experiences releases a lot of it. It’s as if I can’t feel sorry for myself but I can be sorry for someone else and it’s ‘as if’ it’s mine and it gets processed.
        Crikey. I thought I knew what I meant but now have confused us all, lol ?

        • Capricorn,

          We know exactly what you mean. Reading Tessie’s descriptions of her situations gives you new perspective and understanding on yours.

          Hugs. Peace.
          aeronaut

    • Jesus, the balls on that guy! Trotting out his OW in a shared public place and then saying he hasn’t made up his mind yet? Wow. Just … wow.

  • I’ll probably have to see my X’s latest AP/nowGF at some event (oldest graduates from college in a year and a half). Since I know she was forced to go on antidepressants from the narc abuse, and probably regrets leaving her sweet first husband for narc-X, I do think of her as sad. Plus she keeps him from bothering me, so I win.

    • “Since I know she was forced to go on antidepressants from the narc abuse, and probably regrets leaving her sweet first husband for narc-X, I do think of her as sad. Plus she keeps him from bothering me, so I win.”

      Big win!

  • The OWwas my upstairs married neighbor…in a 3-flat…also with a kid…we were close friends…and did I mention she was our family photographer? After I kicked my ex out, because we both owned the property, she continued to live there for a year until they sold their place and moved out. I came to ignore her as if she didn’t exist. Trust me, it became empowering. She had to run into me on an almost daily basis. She was like a prisoner in her own home trying to avoid me. Silence can be much more powerful than words.

  • When I had the “joy” of being in close proximity to my ex’s brand new wife for the first time at our son’s high school graduation, she was very nervous. She even took me aside and admitted to me privately that she was jealous of me – said I was so beautiful and she was afraid that if I ever decided I wanted my ex back that he would leave her! I literally laughed at that thought and told her she had absolutely NOTHING to worry about as far as me ever wanting him back! I think I reactively gave her a hug, too! She then thanked me for easing her mind and for being nice and said she hoped we could be friends. I told her if it hadn’t been for her being with my ex perhaps so, but not possible under the circumstances. I then smiled, wished her luck, and said goodbye.

    I don’t know if she was an AP before I filed, but he certainly wasted no time finding her as a replacement for me during our divorce. She was at just about every school function my son had… I sat as far away as possible from them. I avoided him like the plague and did not want to meet her.

    I actually felt pity for her when we finally did meet because I think my ex hoodwinked her. She seemed meek. (I know, too, that ex’s m.o was to tell other women how he was trapped in a loveless marriage… yada yada yada. I’m sure she was surprised, too, that I wasn’t the heartless bitch my ex probably said I was.) Had she been full of attitude towards me when me met, my response would have been “It must suck to be you!”. I think that even now because I KNOW how my ex is, but I don’t say it to her because she is not rude and is very nice to my kids — for that alone I am grateful.

    She suggested the “let’s be friends” thing a time or two again over the years when there’s been an occasion we both attend, but I have zero interest. She once told me that my ex-sisters-in-law always have good things to say about me and that we should plan a “girls weekend” for all of us to get together… (Oh.Hell.No!!!)

    She’s still nervous around me to this day and babbles on about things I don’t care about and showers me with compliments. It’s strange. I just smile, give a short, perfunctory response and let her sweat. I’m SOOO happy my ex is no longer my problem!!!

    • Goodness, the chutzpah! “Sure, let’s just all have a slumber party together and paint each other’s nails!!” Clueless.

    • I’m glad she is good to your kids and that is important. Also, she may be authentic and just want to be friends to make future events and holidays involving the kids pleasant and not so divisive. This is a possibility. Another possibility is your ex is disengaging from her, she is in a panic and thinks if she clings to his family (plus his ex wife) he won’t leave her. If this is the case she more than likely was involved with him while he was still married to you and is fully aware he is capable of discarding her like yesterday’s trash.

  • I have never met the young drug addict. I am sure they are both hustling each other to meet each others needs.
    She will use sex, youth and beauty for finiacial security and he will pay just enough, to use her sex, youth and beauty.
    Like 2 snakes in a pit.
    I will continue to carry myself with grace and dignity and wouldnt interact with either one of the drug addict freaks.
    It will be interesting to see which one will be seeing karma first.
    The old geezer who sacrificed his family for young drug addict and may get out hustled, chewed up and spit out. Or…
    The young drug addict who will spend her youth and beauty and sacrifice her whole being for material things givin by a hustling sociopath.
    I am sure he is trying to make a whore into a housewife because he needs a beard to fit into society.
    I thank god everyday she won the boobie prize, i no longer have to be a beard for his disgusting life.
    I no longer have to jump thru hoops for him or his martha stewart wanna be mother. ( she must love having this new chick in her plastic covered house..
    …..count the prescripitions and check the silverware when they leave) lmao.

  • Isn’t it amazing how chump lady knows just the column we need sometimes?
    I’ve run into the schmoopie a few times, she won’t let my ex out of her sight so she knows with whom she’s dealing.
    There were a couple times that she showed up at a school event that she was requested not to attend and I was so caught off guard , it was written all over my face. I hate that, you could see the smirk on her face…..infuriating.
    Just yesterday I got a call from the ex re the last taxes we have to do together. I haven’t seen him in over a year and he asked if we could just be mature and go to the appointment together. I opened my mouth and what came out was ” I’m totally mature enough to handle it. Unfortunately your girlfriend is too insecure to let you out of her sight and I don’t need her drama, I just want to do my damn taxes.” Ya’ll want to know what he said??? ” Mary, you have to quit being so obsessed with her and I.”
    Huh????????
    I don’t know about anybody else, but no matter what I say he finds a way to spin it about how I must still be in love with him and how I’m “obsessed”.
    I’m doing my part of the taxes alone. I am obsessed…..with getting him the fuck out of my life for good.
    After the house refi he will see how “obsessed” I am. #blocked.
    Motherfucker.

  • It’s funny, if you look at pictures of The Worm’s Pookie before their affair, she looks attractive…..now a bit disheveled, older, and gaining weight. Hmmm..
    Don’t worry, I’m not stalking her. She’s in public service and her picture shows up here and there in the news.
    I have the urge to ask her why she hasn’t taken him off my hands yet. For God’s sake woman, ride off into the sunset with him so he’ll stop whining to me and trying to win me back!
    I’m guessing she doesn’t know he’s been served.

  • For the first blurry, tear-stained face, nauseous year… I hated the OW. I wrote novels to her in email (never sent) and late a night when I couldn’t sleep, I’d imagine conversations with her. Putting all the blame on HER.

    One time, she showed up at my son’s sport event (I was given 20 minutes notice that Mr. Sparkles “would not be coming alone”) and I walked up to her, introduced myself and said that I thought it was highly inappropriate for her to be there so I was leaving. Mr. Sparkles followed me out while she scampered away through a side door.

    But, a little over two years out now, and the divorce final, and they are no longer together, I think of her and all the envy I felt… the jealousy about the weekend getaways, the music festivals, ski trips, she spent holidays with my kids and just every day things that she usurped from me (and my kids)… and I realize that it really was never about her… and every day I wasted thinking that it was kept me from healing.

    She recently reached out to me by email to apologize. (Weird, right?) And she shared with me all the mindfucking, gaslighting lies he told her. And, boy, were there some doozies. He love-bombed her, triangulated us for over a year (until I filed), and he kept his online profiles going strong on very creepy sites the whole time. HE. NEVER. CHANGED.

    She didn’t “win” anything. She lived my horror story for two years. And now, she’s a “newbie” trying to sort it all out.

    She ignored red flags – just like I did. She trusted she was being told the truth – just like I did. She believed everything he said, until one day she didn’t – just like I did.

    I think part of getting through this whole nightmare is truly realizing that on some level, the AP did you a HUGE FAVOR. Your spouse was and is character deficient. You, on any given day, deserve better than that (and so do your kids).

    Just let go. You can’t get to Meh with more than a carry-on bag. Focus on your kids, on building your future… that is the only way you “win”.

    Rock on Chump Nation… I’d be lost with you all.

    • “You can’t get to Meh with more than a carry-on bag” Definite mic drop for you ICanSeetheMehComing!

      Quote of the year for sure!

    • The difference between you and the OW is just that, you were never the OW. She was. I don’t care what line of BS your ex was feeding her, he was married, period. Anyone that is not a halfwit and over the age of 15 knows that married men seeking affairs always give a tale of woe. She never should attended your kid’s events even if she thought you really were Cruella Deville.

  • Before D-Day I had met Schmoopie 2.0 a couple of times (we had dinner at her house with her family before her STBX or I had any clue what was going on). I had never really liked her. I told myself it was because she was arrogant and condescending but really I think a part of me knew she was the one he was negatively comparing me to even if I didn’t know they were having an affair. He kept saying things like “Why did we sacrifice so much for your career”, “Why didn’t we have more kids”, “Why don’t you dress more fashionably” (I will be the first to admit I am fashionably challenged) and “Gosh your hair is poofy. You look like you have an afro”. Well, she was a housewife with five children who had good fashion sense and straight hair. No wonder I didn’t like her. After D-Day I have generally avoided her like the plague. I want nothing to do with her at all. If I run into her somewhere I will probably just act like I did not see her. She has never made any effort to contact me either.
    Schmoopie 1.0 is an interesting story. I did not find out about her until much later. STBX used to be quite involved in my youngest’s cub scout troop. Last spring, however he pretty much stopped having anything to do with the cub scouts. In December I was at a cub scout outing. The kids were off spelunking and I went on a hike with one of the other Moms. STBX had recently moved out and was distancing himself from me more and more so I was feeling down and needing to talk about it with someone. I seemed to be getting along pretty well with the other mom. Thinking she was someone unlikely to encounter STBX I confided my marital troubles to her and mentioned that there was another woman involved and that he had moved out of our house. We continued congenially the rest of the day. The next day, STBX told me he had something to tell me. He admitted that Schmoopie 2.0 was not his first affair. By this time I had already been through the emotional wringer so it didn’t elicit much more than an eye roll and “of course there was another one”. So I asked “ok, who was she?” To which he replied “The woman you were confiding it yesterday”. Doh! Funny, I really didn’t harbor much resentment towards that one because by the time I found out she was already history. She doesn’t know he told me and I still see her a lot at cub scout stuff. I am still friendly, but I don’t confide to her about my personal life anymore.

  • My worst nightmare has come true! My ex has started bringing the OW with him when he picks up our kids. The first time she came, he decided it would be funny to bait me. As they were driving away, they stopped beside my car, rolled down the window and both smirked at me. I was bubbling with anger. I looked at her and said “You did me a favor”.

    • This is excellent. Well done. My reaction would have been an epic fail. I would looked like Cujo behind the glass.

  • I actually want to meet the OM(s). I want to see how wonderful these guys must be to have been chosen to totally destroy 20 years of marriage.

  • I am “lucky” enough that my ex-husband’s APs didn’t know he was married and didn’t live in my town. So they were duped too.

    Hooray?

  • I’m not sure if I took the high road or the low road, but I believe that there is power in the TRUTH. (The truth being, two elementary school teachers having sex in the teacher lounge. Twice daily). I’ve made it clear that I will share the truth every single time this piece of garbage dares to step into my circle. My circle of friends/family, my circle of grocery stores and malls, my circle of local parks, and so on. I’ve received calls from the OW’s friends begging me to stop. I’ve even been slapped with cease & desist letters, but I’m good. I’ve broken no laws. I’ve not laid a finger on anyone or anything. I’ve harassed no one. I just need to hear that she was spotted somewhere, and then I simply tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I’ve laid out these terms (regarding my circles) because I don’t want to experience the run-in. And even if that did happen, again, I would share the truth….so that everyone within a quarter mile would hear me! Let her f*ckin OWN IT!

    • Did they have consequences at work?

      Are they still together?

      I think that is a good strategy to keep her away from you.

  • My cheater won’t reveal his schmoopie. I learned of the affair via HPV positive pap. The deadly kind.
    He keeps claiming he wants to wreckoncile but I tell him it’s never going to happen, especially if he won’t reveal any info about his affair, including the identity of OW. His excuse is that it’s none of my business because we were separated. (I kicked him out because it was obvious he was at the very least having an emotional affair…) He gladly left but claims the affair didn’t really start until long after we “separated”. He was gone a total of six months before crawling back home. Since then I found out he was LIVING with her. Yeah. Funny how someone who is married for 10 years, together for 16 can literally move out of his family home and within a month move into another woman’s home. But the affair started Long after we “separated”. Anyway. Not knowing who this woman is has taken a huge toll on my self esteem. I can’t leave the house without wondering if every semi attractive woman I see is her. She obviously knows who I am, so I literally feel like a walking fool having to show my face in public. I guess the jokes on me.

    • For all who are unaware of my story, I was pregnant at the time he left. He returned six weeks postpartum. I didn’t know of the affair then although the timing (sex can resume six weeks pp) was exquisite.

      • Hold your head up high, TChump! You aren’t a fool — your lying, cheating husband fits that bill. He doesn’t want you to know because he’s controlling the scenario and that’s enough information to be a deal-breaker for you.

        Their ability to move on so quickly is a sure sign of their disorder.

        (((Big hugs to you!)))

        • Thanks O&O.
          The hardest thing to accept is that his need to keep her identity hidden is paramount to my feelings of betrayal, and my need to process this incident with information. He is protecting her while I’m driving myself bat turd crazy. I feel like a consolation prize. I’m a SAHM and have no access to our finances, so I’m virtually trapped in this shitty marriage. Worst of all, our children are stuck with a dismissive father who won’t take accountability for anything and constantly blame shifts, and a mother who is irritable and always on edge. He won’t leave despite my pleas (funny how he had no problem leaving when I was pregnant) and I am going insane.

          • When I found out my ex was a serial cheater (secret emails to other women), I didn’t know any of them. I, too, was a SAHM. He claimed he never had any physical contact. To me, the content of his emails were proof of enough of his intentions — it was not dialog between “just friends”. His lying and “emotional affairs” was the deal breaker for me. To this day, I don’t know if his current wife was an AP because I had no proof that he was in contact with her before I filed for divorce. Honestly, it doesn’t matter who the other women were. They are unimportant.

            He and I had a family, a home, and he was good provider. He didn’t physically abuse me and I kept hoping he would “grow up”… He was, however, psychologically/verbally abusive to me. I walked on eggshells to maintain the peace and make sure our kids had a normal, happy life. D-Day was 20 years into our marriage.

            Had I found out what he was doing behind my back when our kids were little, I would have hired a lawyer and divorced him then. There are resources/agencies for women who can provide information and help you get out of your situation. I contacted one myself.

            Try not to focus on who the OW is, but rather hone your sleuthing skills at gathering as much financial documentation as you can when he is out of the house – names of banks, investment companies, insurance policies, retirement accounts, title to vehicles, deeds, credit cards, mortgage/loans, etc. Do not tell him what you are doing! Stay safe! Make an appointment with a lawyer – they often have free consultations. Recruit the help of a trusted family member. I know it’s scary and you feel helpless, but you will have to do something to free yourself. Your husband is content with the status quo as it is… He won’t do the right thing.

            • I’m so sorry to hear you had 20 years of trust in a man who didn’t deserve it. My husband also isn’t physically abusive but psychologically. He claims I have an anger management problem but I’ve never felt this sort of anger with any other person in my life. He sits there and picks me apart until I react then blame shifts. I’m beside myself with this affair issue and he uses my anger for it against me. I own my anger and I feel justified in having it. But he somehow feels vindicated in his own actions when I express it.
              I’m doing everything that you’ve mentioned. I hired a forensic accountant to verify all of our assets and credit card debt. I’m looking for a pt job so I can save some $$. I want this to be a smooth transition for the children and it’s going to take some time but it’s happening. Nonetheless, every moment with this creep causes me feelings of imprisonment and inadequacy.
              Thank you for your insight. I’m so fortunate to have found this site.
              Again I’m sorry for all you’ve been through.

              • Their blame-shifting and manipulation is maddening… It takes time and determination to work through the mindfuck. I’m glad you are taking steps toward getting free!

                I found this site a few years after my divorce. It is a godsend! My life is happy now. Good things will come to you too!!! xo

  • Perfect post for me today, as my kids have a school performance this evening. I’m assuming their dad (cheater ex) is coming.

    For their previous performance, he brought his current gf, who was one of the final APs before we separated. He chose a spot for them to sit, out of the entire auditorium, three rows behind me!

    At the end, I quickly got up and scooted over to an acquaintance, and chatted with her, totally ignoring the ex and gf. The kids told me later that she looked like she was having a panic attack the whole time. I just ignored them both.

    Don’t know if she’ll come back again, but with my ex, one doesn’t have much choice. So glad I am liberated from him!

    • I have a cheer banquet to attend tonight. Very timely. It’s at my place of employment so no drama from me (not that there would be) just a quick “hello ” if I get cornered. Nothing more nothing less. I’m just nervous. I’ve seen new girlfriend (not AP that I know of) in a large auditorium but this will be very intimate. This type of thing is such a blow to my confidence.

  • I had the opportunity to confront Miss All That. I had tracked my then husband to a Marriott in a small southern town. It was halfway between our home and her home in Florida. I was only one week out from DDay. At three o’clock in the morning I pulled into the well hidden hotel parking lot, looked up at a second floor balcony where Schmoopie and cheater were outside smoking. She was in, get this, a white negligee! She ran into the hotel room like her ass was on fire. All of a sudden my cell phone rings and it’s cheatrpants asking me why I’m in the parking lot. Really?? I had been blowing his phone up earlier and he never answered. I asked him if he was alone and he lied saying he was! Astounding! I told him he and Schmoopie should get dressed and I would wait for them to come down so we could talk face to face. He ended up coming down, but she hid in the room. I told him to go get his trash and get home. He thought I was going to get into my car, but I shadowed him into the lobby. Once we got to the hotel room door Schmoopie opens it after he knocked several times and greets me like I’m an old friend. I screamed my ass off at this whore while she calmly told me, “we’re just friends.” I told her I wish I could fuck my Facebook friends too, but I know as a married woman that it’s wrong! Then she proceeds to pack calmly and tell me she is divorced. I told her she was a liar. She never broke a sweat! Then the lightbulb went on in my brain! She’s a sociopath! Nothing bothers them. She acted as if she did this every weekend and had been caught before! She wasn’t one bit ruffled! I did tell her that if I caught her after warning her to stay away that serious harm would come to her. She did do a better job of hiding from me after that, but she was not deterred. If I ever had to see her again I wouldn’t waste my time even acknowledging this psycho. Obviously she doesn’t even value herself! So pathetic!

  • I was “fortunate” that the AP (now OWife) did not live locally, so I did/do not have to run into her. I found out after the fact that STBX brought her to our workplace and showed her around– that ticked me off, at least demonstrate professional respect (I know, I know…). Sure looking forward to graduations. Youngest is promoted from middle school this year, wonder if he/they will come.

    Ex forced me to meet OWife at a kid exchange far from home– I arranged holiday vacation near ex since he said he could not get time off to see the kids (once a chump, always a chump… not no more, after this!). I dreaded the meeting as it was less than a year post divorce, OWife is more than 10 years younger than me, etc. And it was a pointless meeting. They drove two cars, but both drove two hours out of their way to drop of youngest with me.
    Forced meeting: I planned it–I was retrieving youngest, so I gave kid a hug and grabbed the bags and things. OWife said “Nice to meet you” and tried to shake my hand– but my hands were full! I simply gave a small smile and said hello. No way in hell I was going to shake the hand of someone who cheated on her husband with someone she knew was married with kids.

    At the same exchange, eldest did not want to see my ex/her father or the OWife, but wanted to see her half sibling, a toddler at the time. OWife’s sibling was there, as was my youngest– either could have taken the toddler to see my eldest who was in a nearby park. But no. Ex said “If __ won’t see me, __ cannot see half sibling.” Oh, if only my youngest had not still been standing there– I would have said to OWife “look at what you married.” As it was, I simply said “really?” shook my head, and walked away.
    For the newbies on the site who do not know my story– eldest had attempted suicide just 6 weeks prior to this incident.

    At one point eldest (when still speaking to ex/OWife) told me the OWife wished she could talk to me.
    Nothing to talk about lady. The incident above (refusing to permit access to half sibling) is what FINALLY got me to see the ex for who he is. I know you would think all the other actions would do it, but it takes the heart and brain time to meet.

    For all those dreading meeting the APs. I know it is tough not to compare, but stand tall. We here at Chump Nation have no reason for embarrassment, etc. The cheaters and the OW/OM are the pathetic ones.

  • I don’t have fantasies of running into OW. She was one of my best friends for almost 20 years and I loved her. Of course I did not know that in the last four years she was having an affair with my husband.
    If I ever meet her again I think it will be just like seeing a ghost, someone that just does not exist anymore. I think I wouldn’t have a single word to say.

    • ChumpAsItIs,

      So you lost not only a spouse, but a best friend. Rough. I hope you have a circle of real friends that can help you rebuild.

      Hugs. Peace.
      aeronaut

    • Hi Aeronaut, thanks for the post.
      Yes I have real friends and a fantastic family and I am thankful for that.
      Hugs back!

  • 1st affair was 10 years ago, 2nd was 2016. My guy was a narc and always talked down to me and the kids, for 20+ years, I stayed for the kids (idiot I know). Anyhow, we were at a local chain restaurant at the bar for lunch and I hear this voice (it was like nails on a chalkboard), it was AP from 10 years ago. She looks over and is like oh Hi guys! I half smiled and said Hi. She tried chatting and I had one word answers. I just wanted to be polite in front of strangers. We get in the car and my guy says to me that I was kind of rude. I looked at him and said, “We aren’t friends!” Like WTF…are you kidding me!!! Well turns out a few months later I found out about AP #2. Guess he REALLY never cared for my feelings. (And yes after AP #1 and we stayed together- he did say he wanted to be friends with her (another WTF moment) but I told him otherwise)…. UN FUCKING REAL

  • I’ve never seen OW. She scrubbed the internet clean of her image, tried to file a police report that she was “scared for her life” of me. {She really meant scared of the inappropriate relationship investigation going on at her work. Really tried to be a victim, that one.}

    Guess I’m very lucky.

    Weird about all the graduation stories. My BD was AT daughters high school graduation. XH came to the ceremony, I didn’t know about the p*s$y wagon then, and then husband was QUITE PUT OUT that I didn’t stay after the ceremony to take “family photos” with him and the children.

    He came to the house, stuffed his fat face and left to be with schmoopy. What a total tool set!

    • I don’t know why I’m still surprised at the antics of cheaters–he came to your house for a graduation party? Wow, just wow.

  • My ex cheated with someone in my family and blew up our marriage and family.

    I’m divorced now and the cheating began about six years ago. I have not crossed his/ my relative and AP, path in this entire time.

    However, about three years ago one of my sons who is 15 at the time crossed paths with him and this guy tried to be all buddy buddy which didn’t work out so well for him. The cheater got his ass decked by my 15-year-old son. Later that night I spoke to my three sons and made it clear that while I understand their fury, they need to back off on the physical retaliation for many reasons not withstanding that it might jeopardize their futures. I explain to them that they need to accept that their mom was unhappy and this is the path she chose, and that she is still their mom.

    I freely admit that while I gave my sons that advice, it’s not an easy thing to follow for me. And if I did cross his path I would want to beat his ass, however I have to keep the big picture in mind here. Just saying, I get all the hire evolved reasons for not acting out, but it’s not easy.

      • My 19 YO son has told me repeatedly that he will kick his dad’s ass…he says “Mom, it’s going to happen”. I don’t want to see my son waste his time and potentially get into trouble with the law for handing his dad a much deserved beat down. Son could totally handle his dad physically, but his dad is truly not worth the effort or risk. I tell son that the best way to hurt sociopath narc dad is to completely ignore his existence. Dad has the disorder where negative attention is better than none.

        • Well said. That’s kibbles in a nutshell – any attention, even negative, is better than none. Hence why NC is such a kryptonite for Narcs.

  • When I see those pictures of Anthony Bourdain with his latest Giz Container, 20+ years younger, I think of my ex and his AP.

    Both are smokers. Given a couple years, she will look older than me and he looks like hell because of nicotine and alcohol. Yes, part of me is a bit grateful they hooked up and revealed the true troll he is. But the hurt they both did to my kids still makes me want to carve them both up slowly with dull knives.

    Working on that. I hate being angry at such worthless human pustules.

    • Probably worked out really well for your son – he’s still a minor, and given the circumstances, he probably got away with it, and I’d bet all of your sons took a certain vicarious pleasure in knowing that the cheater got a little of the medicine they want to give him.

      And you took the high road. Perhaps too high, but you did the right thing.

      I suppose the key point to remember is that you’re no longer a kid, and decking the cheater could get you thrown in jail. And perhaps you should take some vicarious pleasure in that your boy decked the cheater, and that you raised a boy with strong feelings of family loyalty.

      Peace.
      aeronaut

    • Oops, looks like i hit the wrong reply button on that one, post above is for Rickb89.

      StarbucksGal,

      Your X and his AP did hurt your kids. But, over the long haul, he might have done more hurt to them by sticking around. Now you’re free to raise them in a smoke free environment, and give them your values instead of yours and his. That will set them up for a much happier life overall.

      Hugs. Peace.
      aeronaut

  • I was raised with many misconceptions — among them, was an expectation that I should always tell the truth and that “normal” people tell the truth. This caused a few social problems later in life, as you may well imagine. Childhood teachings are hard to overcome. I did learn to keep my mouth shut and my opinions to myself as I grew older, and most of my thoughts don’t cross my lips any more. However, it still is hard for me to accept that people lie with such impunity, and do hurtful things for the joy of it.

    My spouses were serial cheaters, and fortunately I never met the majority of the OW. I feel most of them were lied to and did not even know the SOB was married, but a few definitely knew and proceeded any way. For those, I have no mercy. I feel when you start out with a liar and a cheat, don’t expect anything but lying and cheating. If they thought they were “special”, so much the worse for them.

    However, I did have an interesting experience with one of the women my X dated after we were divorced. She was a widow, with children, and he perceived she was “wealthy” because she was living well on the insurance money from her husband’s death. She perceived he was “wealthy” because he pretended to be. She needed a new source of funding, and he always needed a new source of funding, because neither was actually wealthy. They just liked the lifestyle. (Who wouldn’t like to have the money to live well? Most of us have to live within our means! Rough, right?)

    At any rate, I met her at one of my children’s events, and she seemed pleasant enough. I hated to see him get away with lies, but I knew better than to confide in a woman who was already believing in those lies. When I said goodbye to her, I simply said, “Take care of yourself and be careful.” Here’s the thing — she was stupid enough to tell him that, and to ask HIM what it meant. Well, duh. It’s a clue, Sherlock. He called me in a snit, and asked me what it meant. I said, “what do you think “be careful” means?” It was vague enough that he really had no basis for a major argument, but he said “you just don’t want me to be happy!” Well, of course I didn’t want him to be happy, but we were already divorced, and I was pretty sure he would screw up anything he did, and he would see to it he was always unhappy, so I didn’t have to do anything about it.

    Well Mr Wonderful takes her on a “business” trip with him, and she got to see the difference between his “wealthy” presentation and his actual life. He took her to meet some previous friends of ours, and they stayed several days. Problem was, she thought they had been invited. In reality he asked if he could bring a friend and visit a few days (free room and board). The wife was still a friend of mine, and knew the story of our 20 years very well. The husband was originally a friend of his, but had advised me to take the kids and get out while I could still have a life — that I had put up with enough. Still — they told him he could come for a visit. The wife got along with the widow/girlfriend, and they started telling each other a few personal things. Widow/girlfriend said that X had told her that he had provided the $’s to get this couple started on their way to financial well being. This did not set well with the wife, who knew THAT was an outright lie, and she had already surmised there had been many outright lies. So she spilled the beans on the X.

    Widow/girlfriend realized she had been lied to. She now knew what “be careful” meant. She waited until they were returning home, and let loose on him. Trapped in a car with an angry woman! What fun! Of course, he calls me and blames me — and claims I had called our friends and told them to do this! I didn’t even know they were going on a trip, and I could not tell two adults what to do or say — he never saw any fault in his own actions, it somehow had to be my fault, because “you just don’t want me to be happy.” Needless to say, that love fest was over.

    An adult has to learn from experiences. People get divorced for many reasons, and the “narrative” for a new meet and greet is never complete. An adult is responsible for weighing the evidence as it is presented, and sifting through the lies and misrepresentations. We all can be fools to believe the love bomb presentations of serial con men. It takes time to unravel the skein, and it is necessary to keep the armor on to protect yourself. If you go to a fight for “all the toys” — don’t expect those there to fight fair. Those who choose to blindly believe will probably be truly blinded by the light of the unfortunate truth.

  • I have nothing but contempt for the boyfriend and that feeling was always there and always mutual for reasons I only now understand. If I were ever to see him again in person, I think one lifted eyebrow would say it all. I don’t have to pretend dignity … the other guy does. And the discomfort it would cause ex makes the prospect actually tempting to pursue!

    “Well hey there New Chump! Are you still self-righteously telling everyone you prefer your middle name Christian because you are so close with God? I had no idea God lived in my ex’s rear end! Next time you speak with him, be sure to thank God for viagra! Ta Ta!” Oops … there went the dignity!

  • I have fantasies that I would have the guts to say ” THANK YOU FOR FUCKING MY PARTNER WHILE I WAS LOOKING AFTER YOUR SON. I AM NO LONGER YOUR UNPAID SERVANT, YOU ARE WELCOME TO THAT TRAITOR. TIME TO LOOK AFTER AND PAY FOR YOUR OWN CHILD.” in front of a large local audience. That would be it, but I really want everyone to know about that part because I think it is absolutely reckless to entrust your child to the woman you are cheating when you have also been questioning (that’s putting it mildly) her childrearing. She is much worse than an ordinary whore, she’s an exploiter.
    I am not at meh about that. Not at all.

  • I don’t ever have to worry about seeing the OW. She blocked me on FB and she has never wanted to show her face or interact with me. She just wanted her “prize”.

    Recently, I am seeing a fellow Chump. HIS ex cheater lives in the same small town. They have 50/50 custody and she is manipulative and is still seeing the OW. She’s been cheating their whole marriage. She has said something to him about seeing me in public and how he should behave because not everyone knows about them (namely her supervisor at work). His parents don’t know why they are no separated (8 months separated). If she EVER decides to approach me, I’ll stealthly take her picture with my phone and quietly say to her, “If you approach me again, I will post your picture all over social media and tell the world that you are a cheater. You feel me?” She is deathly afraid of the truth getting out.

  • I ran into the OW at Target and I only knew it was her because my little boy was all “hi!!! hi!!!” I was in shock. I felt like I was going to faint. I stared at the floor and tried not to collapse while he said hello and told myself to just not do anything.

    I took him away to the toy area and stayed near while he looked, and I wept. Right there in Target. I am so thankful I didn’t create a big dramatic event that day. I don’t care if I looked foolish to her or anyone. I just don’t care what she thought of me. I don’t care if I “missed my chance.” I kept my dignity and my son doesn’t have a memory of me going crazy. And my NarcX doesn’t have an amusing story to share for years and years. I thank God for the composure I believe He gave me.

    • What a terrible shock that must have been. I think you showed your humanity right there. So many stories here showing the utter callousness of these creeps. Their disregard for anyone but themselves. Hugs to you

  • This is something I constantly think about. The AP was a friend (not close but we traveled together and would get together for outings). My husband and I are not yet divorced (he’s taking his time filling out paperwork…). I bumped into them several months ago and I approached him and asked him to meet sometime soon so we could resolve things. She started yelling that I “needed to go away!”

    I don’t know if I handled it correctly– I guess I wished that she would have apologized or in some way indicated that she knew she was in the wrong. I restated that we needed to meet soon and that he and I had been best friends for a decade and a half and I didn’t deserve to be treated that way…. I still avoid places that I know that they’ll be– but I’d like to get to a point where I don’t feel like I’m hiding. I’m so anxious about bumping into them– in a weird way I feel ashamed. Logically I know I shouldn’t be… but I’m really scared to see them together.

    This article was helpful and I plan to check in a few times today to see other people’s responses. I’d like to move past feeling like I need something clever to say… or that I have to avoid places and events because I don’t want to be exposed to them.

    • Hiding, I’d say two things in response to your post.
      First, never hope for an apology from any cheater. Even if you hear one, it will not be sincere.
      Second, when you finally get to meh (indifference) you won’t worry about bumping into them. Let them yell all they like. Best to deal through the lawyers so you can stay No Contact. Focus on a good settlement.

  • Most of you know I was able to confront the Carrot Singer in my driveway when he came by to fuck KK in the middle of a work day, while my girls were at school. Big fucking talker with the ‘Golden Cock of Nebulon’ withered like a little girl when confronted.

    You also know that I told the “Carrot Singer in the driveway” story in public, with an audience, with the Creepy Writer and his wife in attendance. I never once looked in their direction, nor did I approach either of them after the event was over, though it took all of my strength and restraint to not do so. (They’ve also appeared together at a subsequent event at which I have performed.)

    I have wondered what, if any, lessons or learnings CW takes away from that story, but then I realize that both he and CS are at least as fucked up as KK is, so any lessons or learnings not directly associated with their dicks (or, in CW’s case, his “Home for the Vibrating Purple Dildo”) are likely to be ignored.

    So, what to do in a close encounter with the AP? As best you can, let it lie. If you’re in the midst of divorce proceedings, protect yourself lest it come back to bite you.

  • My cheater followed the script and called his AP a nutter and told me not to contact her.
    But I did. We had some email conversations. She backed him up and said nothing happened. But later, 2 weeks further on she told me the scummy website they used and the year they met.
    I don’t believe nothing happened and I do believe her about the website and the year. What’s the deal there? How do I rationalise the fact she is telling lies and truth? She seemed fairly normal, despite cheating on her husband, and claims she didn’t know about me.

  • I have been fortunate enough to over 3000 miles from ex and OW. Until now.

    My 30 yr old son called recently and announcd he is getting married in August. So, have to travel back to where they all live to attend the wedding. Should be a happy occasion, right? Wrong! Son also took the chance to inform me that since his new bride has “grown close” to the OW in the past four years, that the bride wants Ex and OW to ‘represent’ them at the parents’ table at the reception dinner. This message was delivered on Skype, so I was looking my son in the eyes when he told me.

    I kept my cool, and asked, so where will I sit? He calmly said, “well we thought you’d like to sit with bride’s uncles (I’ve never met them) so that you can avoid being at the same table as OW. She feels uncomfortable about being around you.” (I’ve never met her)

    So, I said to my son, “i guess life never quite turns out as we imagine”. He asked what I meant (as if hewas oblivious), so I let him have it.
    I said “no wonder she feels uncomfortable after fucking your father behind my back and ending your parents’ marriage. Perhaps your bride doesn’t know that bit?”

    His response wounded me to the core. He said “get off your cross. She is very nice and in fact serves a nice dinner using your wedding china, Mom. She takes good care of Dad”. The OW never had kids of her own, so apparently she enjoys playing mother to her ready made adult stepkids.

    Now this is a son who until now has been civil, pleasant, occasional emails and calls, never a harsh word, and never any discussion of why his parents’ marriage ended. I have deliberately kept quiet about it in these past five years, specifically to not appear self-pitying or bitter!

    Now, tell me Chump friends, what would you do? I am almost on the verge of just not going to my son’s wedding. It would cost me transatlantic airfare, hotels, and all the grief of having to face that bunch. Ex is also bringing along his sisters who were not exactly my favourite people. My own siblings hate the outlaws, so I will have no one there. Son said he had not allocated me any guest places, so even my best girlfriend of 40 years cannot come.

    My son’s behaviour absolutely mystifies me. I have done nothing bad to him except move on and get on with my life. Has he gone over to the dark side?

    • Sitting at a side table while ANYONE sits with the parents is not appropriate. I’m sorry, but your son and his new wife are way out of line.

      You don’t get a “guest place”? You are NOT a guest, you are the mother of the groom and should be treated so. What a rude, inappropriate, manipulative cluster this young man has created. If he can not stand up to his wife and step mother and give you a dignified place, (+1) and show more respect and common sense – would tell him “congratulations” and leave it at that.

      You can send this to him if you’d like. I deal with rude teenagers all day long.

      I would tell him t

    • Wow! That is despicable. I have to question the morals and/or empathy of the bride. I don’t see now that marriage is going to work out if she is that clueless and cruel. He will either wise up eventually or become a chump himself someday if he is going along with this BS and let his bride choose Owife over Mom. Does she want to have poor relations with her MIL. Does she know how much strain that can put on a marriage? Does she care? Your son should. Grrr.

      • Well, I have met the 29 year old bride once, back in November, and she is from an “intact” family, her parents have been married 40 years. We had lunch just before my son’s graduation (just us two alone) and she told me her parents and extended family “didn’t believe in divorce”. I shut that down quickly by telling her I had no choice but to leave a cheater. Her response was “well I don’t think that is my business” and we went on to other topics. I did kind of suspect that day she would turn out to be closed minded / inexperienced in life. I never thought she could be so insensitive as to cast me aside from the start. What incredibly bad luck to get a new DIL like this. Ugh.

        I am not thinking straight about this right now. But my “don’t do the pick me dance” instincts are telling me to just walk away with my head held high.

        • Marci, my heart and stomache ache for you. If I were you, I would go to the wedding and sit down at the parents table regardless of what your son said. If he and his wife insist on evicting you out of your seat, it will be an awkward and embarassing scene. Serves him right. People will wonder why the mother of the groom is relegated to a side table. And I would tell them.

          • The homewrecker does not deserve to sit at the parents table…in the mother of the grooms chair! She is nobody’s parent! No doubt when they have kids she will play the role of Grandmother. Pisses me off.I wonder why she was so cool towards you. I wonder if your ex has been telling sad sausage stories.

    • Your son is way out of line! Shame on him and the piece of work he is marrying. The mother of the groom does not get placed at some obscure uncles table and not allowed guest invites to boot. How much do you want to bet OW’s friends and relatives are invited. My take is they don’t want you at the wedding as it messes up their seating arrangements and bridal party announcements. Send a gift and a card but do not go to this ridiculous event. Please do not put yourself through this and if your son asks why you aren’t going, tell him you decided to get off your cross and they can all drop dead.

      • KB, thanks for the laugh, I will think of some more one liners to at least smile through the tears. I can’t stop thinking of my sweet little baby son and how 30 years ago this was all a nightmare still to come.

        Cheaters destroy so much, they kill our dreams, our memories, our happiness. This just triggers the loss of d-day all over again for me. I thought I had reached meh long ago, but now I have to find meh about my son too.

        • If you are sure you won’t regret not attending to see your son getting married, then you have options. You could tell him you will not attend unless you get seated as the mother of the groom or you won’t come. It’s an awful situation, I am so sorry your son is treating you like this. Whatever influence his bride is exercising, it’s no excuse to treat his mother like this. Aside from the cruelty these two young people are showing to you, they don’t even have manners. I would question whether he takes more after his cheating father than you.
          Having said that, if they are all very posh and proper, showing up at the wedding, smiling graciously and showing everyone who you are and where they have seated you could cause them embarrassment. Hard to tell because you live far away and you don’t know if you’d be stepping into a nest of vipers or if some good people there would be horrified at your treatment. This is a horrible situation ((((Marci)))).

        • Marci
          My heart just broke a bit for you. Hugs to you.
          That must be the toughest thing in the world to be faced with. We are so vulnerable when it comes to our kids.
          Have to say though that there are some serious life lessons coming down the line for him and his new bride (hopefully but maybe they are just shallow and thoughtless). But saying they might one day understand the horror and the damage of this doesn’t really help you now does it.
          His response ‘get off your cross’ says it all right there. That’s the narrative that they all share.
          It’s going to hurt whatever you do. Maybe KB22 is right and you should take a friend to do something lovely for that day. Send your son a lovely gift and your regrets but don’t put yourself alone in that room.
          If he (and his bride) is so hurtful not to realise that his mom would want to be at his wedding front and centre and not only that but to put the OW in your place well I’m not sure, despite his being your son, you should go. As CL says we get to decide our value and our deal breakers.
          I just don’t know what to say that might ease things. I am a mom of three boys and know that we just can’t control how they turn out. It is truly awful that he is this way.
          I have no contact at all with any of my family of origin. Just can’t risk it. I finally had to put myself out of reach.
          I hope you resolve this for your own peace of mind and well being.
          Post in the forum if you need more help. More hugs ! ❤

        • Marci,

          I feel so bad for you. In all seriousness consider being a no show. Send a gift and your regrets. Tell your son that he can enjoy the mother of the groom dance with his stepmother. At a much much later date remind him that in the future he might have to sit at the outlaw`s table at his daughter or son`s wedding if history repeats itself. Remind him that in his lifetime he will only have one mother (the actual woman who raised him from infancy to early adulthood) who loves him unconditionally but he may have more than significant other. OW is not going to extend the motherly love if your ex-husband dies or divorces her.
          Geez your son is so not a class act…I`m so sorry you are dealing with this.

        • Your soon to be DIL sounds a bit high & mighty with the “we don’t believe in divorce” crap. I guess being the OW and breaking up a marriage is not a big deal in her book. The universe will soon give her a swift kick in the ass. Sounds like she is long overdue.

          • Yeah what is that about?! I didn’t believe in divorce either, you don’t get married planning to divorce! If anything the OW and cheater should be getting the cold shoulder! If not for their behavior the situation would me much different! It sounds to me like too many visits to the sad sausage story buffet!

        • I m so sorry that this is happening to you….but my guess is the owife is pulling strings behind the scenes. I had always told my kids the truth of what had happened to me with my my ex (my kids were older and had been raised to thing for themselves) I didn’t want this sort of scenario to be my future. …..As someone willing to be complicit in breaking up a family would have no qualms on relegating the betrayed spouse to being the villain in their fairytale narrative….because some of them don’t just want your husband….they want to live your life!…..she serves your husband with your China (disordered much?)
          Anyways with regards to your son ….I think you should try not to break the bond you have ….but should clearly and concisely tell him why it is unacceptable. …..wish him well if he won’t fix the situation ….but I wouldn’t attend. His new bride is not going to fare well in marriage (displays lack of empathy….inflexibility. …closed mindedness….easily manipulation from others…haughtiness) …..none of which will help her to build a lasting marriage…..again I m sorry for your situation. …but in time you son will understand even if he doest now with the new bride who s family doesn’t believe in divorce….it is most certainly real and a reality for many ….sadly ?

          • Jasmine,
            You are right about OW wanting to live my life. Since hooking up with the ex, she has, at 55, been able to love from her apartment into a multi million dollar lakeside home, with social life, and ready-made family to serve Xmas dinner for. She invites her single GF’s from her former life to visit for weekends, she uses my grandmother’s priceless antique furniture which I was unable to take away (and which ex promised to sell but did not)

            I made the mistake of looking at her facebook recently, only once, and it made me ill. She had posted a photo of my elder son’s graduation (which she chose not to attend because I was coming) and in the caption she calls him “our son”. It must haunts me that this woman was waiting in the wings all those years to take my life away. No one is safe.

            I have learned one lesson: if your partner even mentions an old flame, look into it. Install a keylogger…whatever…but stay vigilant because even though it was ex’s choice to stray, it takes two to tango, and these evil thieves are often actually there. I always tell paranoia jokes, but actually I,think a healthy dose of it does help.

            • Marci. …. The joke is really on them though when they want your life……they end up getting it. ….but if your on the ball…..they only get the bits that are pretty worthless …..The o wife in my case got my ex …..but when she was stalking out our lives prior …..she saw a nice home…..With some very nice gardens and outdoor area…..which to a casual observer who knows very little about us might presume my ex had a flair for design and perhaps have money……sorry there horse head tranny ( my name for the ow) but the talents were mine and I was the solid partner with a good job.
              What she ended up getting was a man who had lots of problems of his own making ….who blame shifted all his sadz onto anyone else….couldn’t keep s job? Bosses fault ….couldn’t play top level sport? ….he s discriminated against because of age (has nothing to do with mediocre talent) ….couldn’t sleep…..families fault….impotency ….my fault…… I gave this man many free passes when things went wrong for him….This I think is my fault…..but not once was I an unsupportive partner.
              These days I managed to keep the home I saved for…..lovingly maintained while working full time and completed raising our kids to adulthood on my own……well he married ow but has continued his serial cheater ways…..ow now says he made me out to be quite the villain. ….However as they are now breaking up he went from soul mates forever to the most horrible man ….sometimes the moral or the story is “be careful what you ask for” she got it in spades ?

    • Oh, Marci–that is heartbreaking. And am I right in remembering that X and OW tried to poison you?

      Your son has crossed a boundary, and is being led around by the short and curlies by his wife-to-be. One can never accurately predict what one would do in such an awkward situation, but relegating you to second class status after the woman who broke up the family? I would be tempted to skip the wedding and send a gift. No, just no. If we get to pull one gift out of the morass of being betrayed, it is this, “Live a life of integrity.” Attending that wedding would be a step back from that goal. My heart aches for you on being handed yet one more betrayal. Hugs.

        • Marci, Im so sorry for your pain. I can feel it through your post. I would not attend my own sons wedding if I Was treated like they are attempting to treat you. Let NO ONE destroy your dignity.

        • Marci, my heart breaks for you. I have a son whose cheating father has
          been in and out and in and out of his life — but he still idolizes him. I guess it’s his 14 YO way of wishing that his dad was a better, more attentive father. “If I wish it, maybe it will happen!”

          Sounds like OW and future DIL have gotten close because they are in the same geographic area. This, on top of hero worship, is a potent combination. I don’t envy you your choice, but if it was me, I would choose not to go and send a gift. Sounds to me like they don’t want you to go at all, so they’re making it difficult and uncomfortable. Don’t give them the satisfaction.

      • I agree with Tempest. I would be saying to my son “While I love you with all my heart, there is no way that I will be treated with such disrespect. ” And I would send a gift and spend the day with someone who really cared about my feelings.

        We teach others how to treat us. If you go, you are teaching them it’s OK to be disrespectful and abusive to you. This is an important boundary. No need for drama on this, just a quiet NO, that is NOT going to happen.

        They probably won’t like it much. Oh well, shit happens.

        You have worth, dignity, and are a loving person. You are entitled to be treated with kindness, consideration and respect. Accept nothing less from anyone…….. yes even the kids.

      • Tempest,
        To clarify, I have been chumped twice.

        First time, I was married 29 years, raised two successful sons, ex was an executive. We generally had a peaceful marriage, bur ex definitely relegated me to the housewife-you-cant-have-a-career category. Looking back, I realised he put me down (I met him at 17, he was 23) and destroyed my self esteem to the point where I truly didnt believe I’d succeed in a career. It was in about 2008 that OW reared her ugly head at a reunion…she had been his GF when they were teenagers. Apparently she had been carrying a torch for him all these years, never married, no kids, just a Career. So, in 2009 when I went away for a month to take a course, she reappeared in his life and I believe that’s when they started up…although it could have been going on for years, who knows. I always trusted the ex to behave, he travelled a lot, but he seemed so honest.

        I had d-day when I began noticing he was keeping the phone under his pillow and I heard it ding in the night. So, being patient, I social engineered his password. He said they were “business texts from Australia” but when I looked (first time ever snooping) the result exposed the magnitude of their affair. I said nothing, just planned and planned, decided tomove back to my parents’ country where I could still get a passport. I just wanted ou of Dodge, I was so afraid of humiliation. We lived in luxury, belonged to the best clubs, social scene, sports, all that…I couldn’t face becoming single in the midst of all that.

        So I moved to England with two suitcase and a backpaack full of only my most precious possessions, rented a house, and proceeded to find a job. I have worked extremely hard since then, getting qualifications, moving up the job ladder, and now mke decent money. I am not easily defeated, but I do know when to walk away. I never said a harsh word to the ex, and stupidly, I even gave up receiving any support, since I wanted to prove myself. I took exactly one half of the matrimonial home and savings, as per law, and that was it.

        You’d think my kids would respect me for being stoic and getting on with things. Now I fear they are carbon copies of the old man and they certainly “follow the money”. OW now has my luxury life!

        The second chump experience was a waif boyfriend I took in about a year after arriving in England. He was broke, needy, but a lot of fun. We cohabited for 18 months, at which point I got suspicious, and all that hell broke loose. You see, this guy thought I was “rich” and that poisoning me would mean he could have my money, even though we weren’t married. He was a sociopath, he hooked up with a similar personality OW at work, and together they conspired to see me out. The ONLY reason I am alive today is that one of the BF’s colleagues told me of the affair and I started piecing the puzzle together — my illness (he was gradually feeding me lead paint masked in food), his odd behaviours, and finally the evidence I uncovered with a keylogger on my laptop.

        The world is a cruel place. I never told my sons anything about the second thing, except that my relationship had ended. They replied that maybe I should work on my relationship skills. I have! Now no one gets a piece of me, financially or otherwise, until they prove themselves. Then maybe I will give them a little piece.

        I guess the bottom line is that we unconditionally love our kids, but that means not expecting them to reciprocate.

    • My mouth is hanging open! I cannot believe that your son would do that to you! I’m so so sorry you do not deserve to be treated that way all three parties, your son, his soon to be wife AND the AP are all in the wrong. Not that you’d expect the whore to have any type of awareness but your son and DIL should know better!

    • Marci, I’m so sorry that this is happening to you.

      The options that have been presented are, do not attend and send a card and gift and show up to shame the bride and groom. I don’t think that the bride and groom have any shame, sound familiar. Sometimes some of our kids are more like their other parent than they are like us chumps. It is what it is. I have one out of two that is like that. The only reason that I was ok with daughters wedding was that she was the one that was hurt when x hooked up with their co-worker. Daughter worked at the same store that x worked at and his schmoopie 1 and 2, and that x did “that to her” was more than she could take. Me, well, I was collateral damage for both x and daughter. If you choose to go to your sons wedding sit in the back of the church at the wedding, if you go to the reception, sit with the other invited guests. When someone asks you why you are there tell them what your son and dil told you, that x and his current wife are the parents and that you were supposed to be seated at the uncle table. See what kind of your responses you get, if you are up for that. You got to get your inner steel backbone to do it, but I think that you can do it. That sounds radical. I don’t know if I could do it, I would probably try, but if you aren’t up front and you can leave at any time that you feel like, basically unnoticed.
      I don’t know what is a good thing to do, I would wish for you to not have to be in this position, I hope that you will be ok, that your family would see your worth and respond to you in a loving way. I’m sorry for the shoddy treatment you are receiving, but you do what will help you be strong, to be ok. Prayers.

      • Joining in the chorus of give it a skip. I would keep any gift modest, but meaningful. I think every young couple needs a truly spiffy compass, don’t you?

        Message to him would definitely be that because the condition of attending is disrespect, then you are forced to decline.

        • Sending a cross is a fantastic idea, Moose. That would be a meaningful gift!
          After reading your other posts, Marci, about the OW taking over your life, your furniture, and re-reading what your son said about her using your china, I think staying away would be safer. I think you would be stepping into a nest of vipers. The bride sounds like an arrogant idiot, but it’s your son who rubbed your nose into the china thing. That was a very cruel thing that he didn’t need to say. I don’t think you should expose yourself to more cruelty. You’ve been so mighty moving away, getting a career and starting over.
          The poisoning boyfriend…wealth, presumed or otherwise, brings out the sharks. People don’t go through life expecting to be targeted the way you were, or no one would have relationships. You have had enough misadventures, I worry about exposing yourself to more hurt going to this wedding. Everyone has a breaking point, even one as mighty as you, so please stay safe.
          I am so sorry your son is turning out this way.

          • Thanks to you all for your sympathetic advice. Just getting some feedback has helped me a lot. I couldn’t muster the energy to even go to work on Monday and Tuesday, but am coming out of the fog and starting to think straight.

    • Marci, I can’t imagine how horrible that feels. I ache for you.

      Should you decide to attend, we know it will be for your son’s sake (not for the satisfiaction of the twisted DIL or OW) and as the others pointed out, you can also excuse yourself early so as not to endure it for long.

      Try initiating a conversation with your son one last time before you decide. Ask him — really ask him — if he wants you to be there. What your presence there means to him. Then make a decision from there.

  • For me, dealing with his three other girlfriends plus multiple affair partners was easy. When I realized he was lying to them too, I let them know so that they could make a reality based decision.

    For me, ALL my anger was directed at the SpinDoctor because it was his decision to cheat. If not the current AP, it would have been someone else. Of course, this was easier because our relationship was “only” two years old and we don’t share children.

    As far as I know, only one AP stuck with him, because “he confessed everything and he’s going to change for me”. I pity her, because she is a weak woman and will be deeper in the relationship when he cheats again, if he’s not already. My last words to her were, “as long as you know what he did to me, you can make a reality based decision.” I referred her to Tracy’s book and the website.

    I trust he sucks.

  • CL,

    Boogeyman is an apt description. I had built the OM up so much in my mind that my head almost exploded from the anxiety and dread. X told me that in high school her AP was on the football and wrestling teams. He must be special if he played HS football.

    My first encounter was an “accidental” meeting at the theater. The OM and his kids were mysteriously at the same theater, same show time. Go figure. Well I took a look at this dude and thought he really does not look like anyone special. I was polite, particularly to his kids, but I thought the X was totally classless for setting this “chance” meeting up.

    Second encounter occurred at my home during Christmas break. I arrive at the house for the parental exchange, and guess who is there? That’s right the AP. No advance warning from X at all. OM was upstairs putting my son’s Christmas gift together that had just arrived that afternoon while I was at work. He greeted me like I was his long lost buddy which royally pissed me off. I knew right then what a fake he was. This old HS BF of the X has p/g to assaulting his former wife, he has several judgments for not paying his debts, he filed bk, you get the picture.

    Since those first two encounters I have seen the OM on several occasions. I’m not rude but I don’t go out of my way with him either. We are not buddies. The more I see him the more the boogeyman is destroyed.

    Trust that they suck CN.

      • Thanks Capricorn. It hasn’t been easy but I’m not going to give them drama. I really should be thanking the AP because he paved the way for me to get out of hell. I’m so much happier single than being with her. Also, the kids and I have a great time without her little rain cloud parade.

  • My plan, if it happens, is simply to look directly at her without saying a word. I wish I could raise just one eyebrow, too but unfortunately do not have that talent. People are often uncomfortable with a direct gaze. It also lets someone know that you are not afraid of them or intimidated by them.

    If she says a word to me, I would simply say “Good luck with that.”

    To be honest though, I say lots of things to her when I am alone in my car just to get them off my chest, but someone who has done the things she has without care to the hurt inflicted not only on the spouse but also on the children must not have a conscience or morals. Therefore, it is safe to assume that anything you say to them will be a waste of time.

    • Me too, I think it would be awesome to just look through her as if she didn’t exist. Same with my ex. As someone said earlier, they are ghosts to me.

  • Today is a nutso day at work so no time to read comments until tonight. Just wanted to say that I hadn’t seen this post before but I think it is really important. Jackass’s MOW took up way more real estate in my head than he did, largely because I was in the middle of an imaginary solo pick-me dance, even though I had been discarded. I had to validate my own worth by seeing that I was smarter, kinder, more creative, healthier and had better taste in clothes. Seriously. I haunted Pinterest and Facebook until I realized that this way madness lies. And now, given 3 1/2 years, I’ve grown enough and recovered enough to see that she is indeed pathetic. There’s enough water under that bridge for me to know (via various 3rd parties) that her life has gone steadily downhill since she started up with Jackass, and that her fate with him was pretty much the same as mine. Narcissists overvalue, devalue and discard. That’s what they do. And meanwhile, she had blown up her marriage and screwed up her kids and had to deal with the other troubles that come from turning 50. If I ran into her, I would just keep on walking, because (in my case, not married to Jackass and no kids), she did me wrong but also did me a favor. I’ve got a Jackass-free life.

  • All my cheater’s APs did not know they were APs (he chumped them too), aside from one. I sent her a very nasty email for some inappropriate texts she sent him, but it turns out he lied to her too, and we ended up having a fairly civil conversation. She was a decent person who made a few errors in judgement, but it didn’t extend to more than some texts. I accepted her apology and left it at that. Most of the time, when I’ve had a narc describe someone as “crazy,” turns out there was a whole other story line there. None of these other women ever turned out to be as crazy as my cheater was/is.

  • This is so timely for me.. and I sure appreciate everyone’s words of wisdom. I’m almost fours years out from DDay, two and a half out from a very contentious divorce, and our only daughter (29) will be getting married late this year. I’ve not met the final AP, a woman ten years younger , long divorced because of infidelity in her own marriage, who is an event planner( general, not wedding specific) I can only figure he met at work. She has been involved in all the pathetic drama of our divorce, crowing about moving in with her wealthy boyfriend (and out of her fathers house!) midway through the process. He’s spent more money on her than the 34 years of our marriage, and has growing health problems himself due to genetics and foolish choices, so the nurse and purse scenario definitely makes sense here. She even stayed once he unexpectedly lost his job (he’s my age, 59, and not likely to get another big, splashy executive position again) and was forced to retire six months after our divorce was final. He will inevitably be involved in our state’s Attorney General lawsuit this summer against his previous employer for $100 million for fraudulent business practices for the previous five years as he was the CEO in charge for that time! However, late this summer has also now become THE time for my ex and her to throw a big wedding event of their own, and it’s really made our daughter run for the hills and literally stop planning her own wedding, which breaks my heart. There is a degree of this OW/wife being pushed/ intruding onto the agenda (be Brides together with my new daughter!), and I’m sure my ex thinks it would save money, besides having a sadistic streak along with no sense of what’s appropriate here. This was supposed to be our daughter’s year to plan a wedding, really enjoy the process, and now.. well, way to upstage your kid! A neutral third party remarked that they are both attention whores. The woman pushed her way into our daughters grad school graduation last summer with no shame, happily encouraged by my ex! So I would anticipate that after becoming a wife, it will be worse! An event that was once so anticipated with joy is now a whole different scenario…I will need every ounce of discretion and class I can muster to get through this scenario, so I will keep reading!

    • Your daughter doesn’t have to include him. She knows that right?

      She can change her plans, make it a destination wedding, whatever the hell she wants and leave him out.

      Any chance, the AG can find something criminal during his investigation? Also, have you secured yourself financially? Does he owe you anything?

      • I have made suggestions about changes and destination wedding, but tread carefully lest I be accused of poisoning things as a bitter, discarded ex! My own mother has offered a big chunk of change if she goes that route rather than the traditional. My daughter doesn’t tell me much, really out of respect for me because she knows about half the stuff he did, she’s actually the one that labeled him a narcissist first, it’s pretty bad (he is still on the top ten hall of fame shirt spouses at my Prominent attorney firm), and she knows I want no drama, and would actually be happy with no contact the rest of my life! I know she is supposed to attend their shitshow, but has not told me anything, like even if she was pressured to BE in it to give the stamp of acceptance and legitimacy. I think the whole subject is crappy for her..

        I can only hope that the AG finds some interesting things.. Kabletown (not the real employer name!) has already tried to get the suit dismissed, but a judge ruled the Friday before Christmas that it has merit and will go forward to the already scheduled July trial date. He was head man during the period in question, and responsible for how business was conducted… that’s what you made the big bucks for. Many of his top management staff lost their jobs right at that time too, which does make me wonder. One online commentator in the major newspaper attributed some of the mess to my ex’s love for hookers, actually naming him by his casual, familiar name, not his full name! It made me feel that maybe a few more people in this town do know about him no matter how good his image control.

        I am totally severed from him as I went for all the assets I could right at settlement, everything up front and only a few years maintenance. I always figured he would quit his job early, like he threatened several times in mediation, and flake on the maintenance and I didn’t want to be tied to him for years. When the termination happened out of the blue, I was shocked that the top company producer for an over 28 year career would be bagged (age discrimination anyone?) but big companies are damn sure to CYA, and now I might see why! I also got fifty per cent of the gross of his golden parachute thanks to a quiet little clause by my attorney.
        Yes, I am fine… and was wondering when a lifetime of bad shit, or at least what I know about, was going to come home to roost… these things can take a while, and yes, we all know there can even be subsequent criminal charges in cases like this.. just ask the Enron and Chase bank executives! It will be interesting to see if there is much publicity and what the Master of the Universe will do about image control. Not my name anymore, not my circus, not my monkeys, Thank God!

      • Destination surprise wedding for your daughter, limited to a few close people, just before x’s wedding.
        It would be such an awesome dream. Your daughter is probably not like that though, bummer in this instance.(sarcasm)

        Why can’t these cheaters just go off to cheater land, where others of their ilk are happy to participate. They just want to mess everything up and then wonder why every other family member is upset. It’s because you are not happy with their happiness, boohoohoo. Ugh…….

        • See my novella above… I LOVE your idea, especially right before theirs! Unfortunately, it either has to be planned or totally spontaneous, because my soon to be son in law is an active duty Marine, and his current rank and position means he has responsibilities that dictate timing. I told them both long ago when they talked to me about their intention to get engaged, that As much as I looked forward to all the activities a traditional wedding would bring, in this case I would not be upset to get a phone call telling me they got married in a hot air balloon lifting off at sunrise from a beautiful winery grounds! I just wanted pictures.. and would throw them a party when they wanted at the next visit.

  • IT”S kinda mple: Tons of angst, and all you got is a guy who cheats on his spouse. (Now YOU’RE the spouse, in case you’re too dumb to figure that out. Think you’re gonna change him? Yeah, right. )

  • I know it is the end of the day, and no one will probably read this, but I had to comment on my run-in this afternoon with one of the APs! After the fact, I found out that my ex had at least three APs. One works as the same place that I do (ex used to, also). I almost ran into her going out a door, less than a foot apart. Her hands were full, so I turned and held the door open, and walked away.
    I literally just got an email message saying I know we agreed to keep things professional, but it has been a few years and time has a way of changing our perspectives. Maybe I am willing to talk to her and say things to her, and she would like to acknowledge whatever I have to say….
    She really does not know how to behave around me, and it makes me laugh. She is so insecure, she cannot stand people not liking her.

  • What, zyx321, you were polite enough to hold the door for her and she still bitched about it? Next time, stick your foot out to trip her, then push the door back in her face. I mean, if she’s going to bitch, give her something to bitch about, FGS.

    • I have love feared running into XH and stinky wifetress. She had filed an Injunction Against Harrassment against me. 10 days later, XH does a PO. They are evil and dangerous. We had a good marriage – or so I thought. I go out of my way to avoid them – though they have recently moved to my town. Chumplady, what’s up with the OW that wants the wife’s life?? Seems like a special breed of OW. They go to the same restaurants and vacays that we did – which were my picks.

      • Maybe OW is playing an imaginary pick me dance and tries to stick to Cheater’s preferences (aka what worked before) and tries and makes it better to gain his approval? (Like – “I can be better than her, see?”).

        Either way, it is a sad, pathetic place to be in.

    • In this case, she is not really bitching about it. She is very insecure, and wants people to like her. She probably wants to talk to me so I can hear how she was also lied to and manipulated by my ex (this was hinted once in an email message). As far as the relationship, I think it was “just” an emotional affair. At the time, ex convinced me she was the one infatuated with him, and I swallowed it hook, line and sinker. I was worried about her for a while (think fatal attraction) but somehow she became fixated on another female friend (my ex’s best friend, and a good friend of mine, also) and gave the friend the hard time. Bizarro world.

  • I sent an email to the OW after looking at her online profile and said, ” I looked at your facebook page and you may want to lay off the sweets, you are looking a little chubby. Oh, and you can have my husband.”

  • I’ve always been fond of the quotes:

    “I don’t care what you think of me. I don’t think about you at all.”

    And

    “How beautiful it is to stay silent when someone expects you to be enraged.”

    Both take the kibbles right out of any unexpected encounters…for the AF and the ex!

  • In response to Marci’s post about the wedding from hell, I bloody well hope I won’t be in the same boat. My son is getting married here in France in July and the ex and his new gf are coming over from the States. I don’t have a partner so there won’t be a +1 for me but I am curious to see where the gf will be seated, given that my ex and the other skank tried to ban me from my younger son’s 18th birthday celebration. My oldest son (the one who is getting married) has always taken a soft approach with his dad because he is “fragile”, I guess because after beating me up routinely he usually burst into tears. I hope to God they do the correct thing regarding me, but for what it’s worth, if I were in your shoes I don’t think I would go. I would sit it out for the long haul until your ex and his skank’s true nature come to light. Good luck though. A

    • Thanks, Attie. Perhaps we share a similar problem, that our kids live far away and they just let time and distance erode their loyalty. I am still pondering the trip, I had bought the ticket but I suppose cancelling for August won’t cost me much. The hard part is that I can now foresee that the OW will also move into my place as grandmother. I do not intend to move back to my original country if this is how things unfold. I must just get used to the idea that by moving far away, alienation was a risk I incurred.

  • “Best wishes for a happy life” and “regrets”–you don’t need to put up with that kind of humiliation.

  • I want to think that when I next see OW I will laugh, shake my head and say “good luck with that.” My ex is going down hill from a brain disease, has serious money management issues, and a deranged mother who encouraged him to cheat.

    The first time I saw OW however I was driving and suddenly she was there walking by the side of the road. I was overcome by rage and I nearly ran her over.
    The second time I was walking, and OW, ex and ex’s mother drove by in their car. Believe it or not, they stopped, opened the car door and waved and smiled. I couldn’t believe it. I said “Wow – a car full of skanks who all deserve each other. Get out of here.” Unfortunately my kids were there… it was upsetting to them.

  • It was on this date 2 years ago that I confronted my then-husband about the infidelity evidence, which was a car seat stained by sex.

    I said, “It looks like you had sex in the car.” He said, “You say I’m madly in love and I have a girlfriend.” I said, “I didn’t say you were madly in love and have a girlfriend. I said that it looks like you had sex in the car. You could have picked a stranger up off the street and had a one night stand.” He never admitted to cheating; he gaslighted and went DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender Order).

    I deduced that the OW was a retail clerk at a big box store where we often went shopping after he picked me up from my 2nd shift job. I supported him and trusted him to drive me to work and back in our shared vehicle. I noticed that there was a certain employee of this store who was always looking at him and he was always looking at her. One night when we were at this store, there were only two lines open. One line was manned by the employee who was always staring at my then-husband so I directed us to the other line, which had more customers. The employee who always stared at my husband had no customers, so she told us, “I’ll take you over here.” I said, “No thank you, we’ll just stay here.” She then ordered us in a rude, aggressive, abrasive, loud manner that we were to get in her line pronto to be waited on because she had to have her drawer counted by midnight. We did but I told then-husband that we would not be going back to that store due to the rudeness of that clerk. He and I did not go back to that store together. He continued going there by himself twice a week in our shared vehicle when I was working to help his elderly mother with medicine and groceries. I remember thinking to myself that I hoped our marriage could survive this retail clerk.

    After he left the marital home and moved in with his mother, I decided to go to the retail store to see if I could catch them together. I saw the suspected OW sitting in the restaurant area of the store with a man, probably a co-worker. I stared at her, hoping she would sense it and look at me. She did see me and she turned bright red. She then proceeded to slowly lick every finger on her hand including her thumb. I did not confront her but her actions pretty much confirmed in my mind that she was the OW.

  • When my ex-partner had an affair with his co-worker, it broke my heart but not my brain. I threw him out in classic fashion and sent the penniless idiot to sleep on his affair partner’s spare couch. He called me to beg for his clothes back, but the OW came into the room part way through the conversation, and I heard her ask who was on the phone? He must have indicated it was me, because she immediately came on the line and started posturing and threatening me to “leave him alone”. She was doing all sorts of big ass posturing…asserting how she’d been boinking him for ages and that I was a loser, etc. I was laughing because it was HIM who called ME to beg!

    I let her rant for a minute, then, when my gap to respond came, I said in my smallest, pleading whiny voice….hmmmm Ok, but will you just make me one promise? She crowed back, sure babe! My response…”Please promise me you wil never ever no matter waht, send him back to me? I don’t want him!” She hung up. I laughed so hard, it relieved all the grief…I knew then and there she was the biggest loser ever to steal anything from me.

    Then I sent the cops round to collect the lamp he stole from me, just a lamp, nothing else. Just the lamp. And the cop brought it back, smiling. Good old British bobbies, they have a sense of irony.

  • I would luv to be gobsmacked by the significant other dujour. She was a she cheater with the he cheater. But she knew he was married at the time and he knew she was married at the time. Both got themselves single-him via divorce, her waiting 5 years until her hubby died. THEN he cheated with me, for a very long time, but always presented himself as alone, a renter, when if fact he lived with her. So I guess he had a relationship with her house and sub-basement where he could store all his table saws and drill presses.

  • My children are grown so I don’t have to have any contact with my ex. Unfortunately our oldest was diagnosed with stageIV cancer just 5 months after the divorce became final. Needless to say my life has been just hell for the last year. I saw him at a benefit for our son 8 months ago and just looked right through him. I was very proud of that. No tears, no words just right through him. But in a few weeks there will be a major surgery. I am sure he will be there with the woman he had a 4 year affair with. Almost 2 years of reconciliation when I found out he never ended it and I kicked him out. I am afraid what I may say to her and him. I think I will probably use the “Surely you must know what I think of you line” Of course there is the outside chance that he will be a decent human being and leave the whore at home, and monkeys might fly out of my butt. Our son doesn’t need any outside stress so I will behave appropriately and scream inside. Grey divorce sucks

  • DoingMe – ‘The biggest ‘mistake’ a cheater makes is to underestimate the power of a chump. The one thing I can count on in the special delivery he shall receive is that narcissists are predictable if nothing else.’

    This here ^^^ couldn’t be more accurate! I had no idea I was so clever. No idea that I was an expert PI when I taught myself some unsavory morbid details of what the X was up to. Hey – I was finally proud of my computer skills..nobody else was. ha. They paid off in spades. I knew where he was at all times and never let on. By then, he thought he was so fucking smart that he got sloppy and bolder. But, he still did everything possible to be sure I had no clue (ha!). He was becoming very predictable but more and more ignorant because of his narcissistic leanings and his insatiable appetite for being entitled and in control at all times.

    I blew his cover after the divorce was done by one statement that said, Turn off your iPad locater. I’ve been seeing where you are for the past 2 years. hahaha. He was pretty quiet and was stunned that I had been 2 steps ahead of him the entire way. (right – it wasn’t the most sophisticated computer program but it sure did the job)

    He ate some good shit-sandwiches from me and I enjoyed watching him chew them down with a bad taste in his mouth and nothing he could do about the sudden power shift. Try and hit them between the eyes, unaware that divorce papers are coming their way. It’s very satisfying to a guy who thought he had total control over me.

    THE POWER OF A CHUMP! Take that to bed with you. I love it.
    We never knew we had that power until we were forced into it and leaned on our skills as a chump.

  • My stbx left a little over a year ago and moved in with coworker half his age. Our daughter had piano recital at school a few months later. Her sperm donor came with OW and left before it was over. My daughter was looking for her dad. He said he left so as to not hurt me. Oh please. All of the sudden he doesn’t want to hurt me. LOL Then why even bring OW? ugh. I was so mad at him. I told him she was looking for him. So next piano recital He came in with OW and sat down close to the stage. I had to walk past them to go to the bathroom. I walked right past. Grey rock. At the end they stood in the aisle as our daughter was going home with them for weekly visitation. I gave my daughter big hug and walked past them. Right next to them.

    What sucks is that OW is pregnant. My daughter and everyone has kept this from me.
    I happened to look at my daughter’s phone. Dumb ass texted his daughter that, “our son will ride.”
    Meaning motorcycle. He texted our daughter by mistake.

    My daughter said it was kept from me because then I would complain to everyone.

    I told her yes, your dad would like it if I kept my mouth shut and didn’t “complain” to anyone that he left us, moved in with 22 y.o. and got her pregnant.

    Who the hell am I to “complain” about that?

    My daughter said he was unhappy. I told her, well he didn’t tell ME. He told me everything was fine – he wasn’t cheating and I was insecure.

    These people are sick as sick gets. My heart goes out to everyone here. The heartache and misery these fuck wits cause with no care – well, only care for themselves…..

    Is disgusting.

    What’s so weird is, I met with out tax guy 2 days before. He said he will not do my stbx taxes. He will do mine. And then told me how his wife left him for younger man and had a baby – and the young man left her! He said it will not end well for my stbx. He said he has seen a lot of these cases…. it will not end well.

    I feel so bad for the kids. My daughter, who is messed up over this. And the baby whose father conceived him while married to another woman. What destruction these people wreck with no care whatsoever.

  • I heard that SWIM snuck into the OM’s work and confronted him. He really had nothing to say in response, and SWIM felt a lot better afterwards, seeing that Mr. COOL was a speechless twit.

  • Marci,
    I wonder what happened with the wedding in the end. I don’t really agree with everyone else that you should skip it- you said you keep thinking about your on when he was little. I have a three year old boy and it is just heartache to think we might be distant one day. You may regret not being there for a long time. I don’t think ultimatum is the way to go. Keep things open.
    I would tell him, without being too emotional, she has already replaced me in my home, with your father, that hurt. It will hurt so much if she takes my place at your wedding. I am your mother, I remember all our years together, caring for you when you were little. She didn’t do that. I would like to sit at the head table. I’m sorry if she’ll be uncomfortable – I will be too. But I’ll do it for your special day.
    Sounds like your ex has the money and the lifestyle and that is seductive to the kids, which sucks. Hopefully as they grow older and have kids they’ll grow closer to you. Don’t give up on them – stay in touch. And make an effort to see the grandkids.
    Your ex probably didn’t respect you and the kids sometimes pick up that attitude. You can tell your son that. You’re realising how his father put you down all the time and your working on your ‘skills’ to build back your confidance. It still sounds like your son loves you. Daughter in law I don’t know, they are always funny with mothers in law. So yuck about your grandmothers furniture and your dishes. he probably was so mean and condescending to you you didn’t have energy to fight him. Here’s to hoping you are building your self love and confidence and know how awesome you are. Xxxx

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