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Dear Chump Lady, In our bed? WTF?

Dear Chump Lady,

I would love to hear your take on this: When my former significant other was sneaking around behind my back having her affair, she would wait until I went out of town and then invite her affair partner, (from another country!), to book a flight and spend time with her in our house, in our bed. I found out when I discovered chat transcripts between the two of them on my laptop. Here’s an excerpt from one of the chats when they were planning their first meeting in the flesh (ugh):

SO: Yes, you’ll be in this room with me at that point…more likely upstairs ….

AP: I don’t mind where

SO: I suspect that similar things will be happening no matter which room we are in

AP: Well, we don’t need to confine ourselves to one room

SO: You won’t feel confined here 😉

Other remarks made it clear that AP had booked a hotel room, but still it was important for the two of them to defile every damned room of the house. I wasn’t supposed to find out (or was I?), but I did, and it felt like a flashing neon “fuck you.” The sheer hostility of the violation made me reel.

Is this a part of the sick excitement or something?


A Fan

Dear AF,

First off, AF, I’m so sorry. What a sick, sociopathic fucker she is. Second, AF — Eww. To answer this I’d have to imagine being inside the depraved mind of your cheater, which is asking me to untangle that particular skein of fuckupedness.

Pardon me a moment while I get my hip waders, so I can muck through the fetid swamp…

My first thought is that she’s simply not thinking of you at all. Which I know is a very unsatisfying answer and perhaps the most obvious. Neither she, nor her foreign fuckbuddy give a shit about your shared life together. You don’t factor into their decision-making whatsoever. Can you imagine how that conversation would go? Hey, I’ve got a hotel room! Oh, good — because you know, my bedroom is sacred and off limits. I can fuck around on AF, but I draw the line at doing it in our home!

There is no boundary when it comes to kibbles. Perhaps some cheaters have rules (I’ll screw people I meet on adult friend finder, but I won’t pay for sex… or I’ll pay prostitutes, but I won’t have an emotional affair), but most cheaters apparently have no limits to what they’ll do for kibbles. Their narcissism is so intense, the need for kibbles so great, as to block out any sentient thought.

That’s one take on it. I ran this one by my husband and he had a different take on it. He thinks boinking in the family bed is something women cheaters are more prone to. That they audition affair partners for roles in their life. Maybe they’ll trade in their current partner for a better one! So it’s all part of a big Let’s Play House fantasy. That’s where she lives, so that’s where she’s going to play house. I wonder what the fuckbuddy looks like in my kitchen, my bedroom, etc. It’s like a sociopathic game of paper dolls.

As theories go, it’s interesting, but in my experience men are just as prone to fuck someone in their own homes as women are. In my case, my ex brought his OW to a vacation cabin and did the deed in flannel sheets I had bought us. (How do I know? I found her underwear. Classy.)

So that brings us to the “sick excitement” theory. Yes, I do think they do it for a sick excitement pay off. It’s that thrill of deceit thing I talk about here. If those two cheaters shared a life together, having sex in their bedroom would not be nearly the naughty hijinks it would be as having sex in your bedroom. The trespassing is part of the high. It’s not a transgression if it’s allowed and accepted.

That’s why I call bullshit at cheaters and their “open relationships,” btw. They don’t want them. They want to CHEAT. They want to gain advantage over an unwitting innocent. They’ll take an “open” relationship if they get found out, but the preferred form of cake eating is dependent upon duping. I get more at your advantage and you don’t know about it — hahahaha.

You could go further into the skein of fuckupedness and ask yourself why it’s so important to them to play such sick games to “win.” Perhaps they hate you and it really is a big “fuck you.” Perhaps they feel aggrieved and it’s their way of evening the score. But that underscores again how sick the whole thing is. First off, if they hate you — really, the only way they can “fight” you is blindfolded with your arms tied behind your back? Yeah, they can only attack you if you’re at a severe disadvantage (you don’t know what they’re up to)? And if they are aggrieved — are these actions proportionate to your crimes?

No, of course not. Unless you drown kittens and torture small children. No, the problem is that people like your former SO don’t ascribe meaning to things. Which is very scary — to be that compartmentalized. Even to say they are compartmentalized implies there is a compartment somewhere there with some substance and feeling inside, it’s just walled off. But no, it could be a bed is just a bed is just a bed to her. It’s not a bed you shared together, where intimacies were shared, where you said you loved each other. To her it may be just… a bed. Convenient. Naughty because you’re not in it, the fuckbuddy is. Whatever she said she felt for you was just situational, fleeting, impermanent, variable. You ascribed meaning to it because you’re a real person with real feelings. A bed is something you shared and so you gave that bed meaning.

There are normal people out there like you AF, who can connect. Who ascribe meaning to shared experiences because they FEEL those experiences. You need a person in your life who has boundaries and who is capable of creating sacred spaces with you and keeping those places safe. What she did was a grotesque violation to your sense of safety. She defiled what should be your safest space — the place where you lay your head each night to sleep. The place you make love.

I’m glad to read she is your former SO. And I hope you burned the bed and got some new sheets. Wishing you a much happier new life, AF.

This column ran previously. Consider it a public service announcement on why chumps need new bed linens!

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  • Or they don’t want to spend money on a hotel. Or it’s just more convenient for them. Sometimes their victims play into the equation, e.g. they get off on defiling intimate spaces…and sometimes their victims don’t matter at all.

    The only thing that matters to a Cluster B is that they have a victim in play at all times.

    • My super classy ex wife and her tennis pro got off on “hooking up” (thrill of actual for real trespassing) in the upscale neighborhood under construction a couple blocks down the road , having “private lessons” at his home (while his wife was undergoing chemo) as well as “trouble shooting” our home computers/electronics ( when I asked why her tennis pro was in our home – she informed me that he was also a computer genius – a neighbor had seen him pull his scooter into the garage ) I guess being the neighborhood tennis pro didn’t generate enough cash for a hotel so they had to make the best of it. But really who can blame the 40ish ex wife for falling for a 60 yr old tennis pro so broke he could only afford a scooter? He was European, his wife was of course all men will be men/cool with it and he had a Belgian accent ( you know that’s almost a genuine French accent!!) plus bonus computer genius
      quotation marks used to denote the super secret codes they used while planning their sexy times.

  • x used our bed also. Partly because he was to cheap for a hotel room. 10 years of cheating is expensive. Partly because her husband came home through out the day. I think it was the thrill of putting one over on me. The extra thrill is in being surrounded by family photos of your kids and grandkids. Just disgusting.

    • My stbx seemed to take great pleasure in telling me how he was so obvious about his cheating and doing it right under my nose, and that I would have to be a complete idiot not to notice. He said he was sure the kids must have known, because he so obviously texted AP right at the kitchen counter. I think it was just another way to blame me- you are so stupid, it is your fault for not knowing.

      But it doesn’t matter why they do it, they do it and we need to stop trying to figure it out. I am learning here albeit slowly.

      I was falling into the why trap yesterday. Daughter received a text from stbx yesterday. He asked her if she had any good stories. He hadn’t tried to communicate with her in several weeks and hasn’t seen her since May. Daughter forwarded the text to me saying it was weird. I start thinking: why now?, (Is it a coincidence that he sends it on a day when I am away with my son? I am pretty sure he knows this). It is sort of an odd question, what does he really want, how would he think she would respond? Did a therapist tell him to say this? You get the gist; my head was spinning and so was hers. The point is he has a history of manipulation so it most likely is and it really doesn’t matter why, I just need to trust he sucks. Can’t wait until the feelings match the thoughts!

      • Why they do it? I’ve tossed this around and it always comes back to Cluster B. It’s that simple.

        Now that I have clarity and accept the fact the Limited is a sociopath I’m sure there have been many AP’s who’ve fucked in my bed including the last.

        Being erased by a Cluster B feels so painful to chumps and the defining event when caught is our focus.

        From my experience I see the disordered to never have attached or bonded in the first place.

        Think of how many of them want nothing from the home. Not a picture, a card, or a grandchild s picture. Yet, they know all too well what we value and use whatever this may be to inflict pain.

        And that is the gift the OW/OM gets, the nothingness, the void.

        • They do use what we value against us. Mine recently sent an email and ended it with “I pray for each of you every day.” My mom asked if that was sincere. I told her that I thought he said it simply because he knows that I value prayer and by saying that he was trying to manipulate me into believing he only wants what is best for us. And that is ridiculous considering the crap he is doing in the divorce. Pay attention to actions not words…

          • Yeah, the Limited sent me a text last year thanking God his children take after him. Hey, the pedistal has to be maintained after all the whore is a Christian woman, according to her warped thinking. And the rosary beads hanging from his car mirror are laughable.

            I thank God every day for my freedom.

          • My ex wouldn’t go to church but after he left he started texting bible verses to me and the kids. We all thought it was bizarre. He knew that the rest of us valued our faith so guess he thought he’d manipulate us by pretending to care about bible verses. He ruined one particular verse for me. Every time I hear it I think of him emailing it to me the day after he split. It felt like he was saying, “God told me to do this, it’s my destiny.” I guess he thought it’d be hard for me to argue against God’s will.

          • The big question is could I really mean this little to someone who meant so much to me? And unfortunately, the answer is yes. They pick us for our naivete among other easy to take advantage of traits we thought were assets.

        • Your post made me recall how after my inlaws house burned, the only pictures she retrieved and restored were her wedding photo, one of my stbx circa age 2 and one of his brother circa age 2. There were plenty of others that could have been restored which we stored in a trash bag in our basement until I recently gave them to cheater’s aunt.

          It never dawned on me until now how she let go all the pictures of me and the kids without a second thought- even a very elegant 8 x 10 portrait Of her grandchildren I had given her for Christmas one year.

          Wow, that is telling now!

          • i had a box of cards he’d given me since the day we met. What did he save? Nothing. Yet he kept letters and things that reminded him of the affairs.

            A sociopath reinvents st the drop of a hat. They want supply. The good thing is that you will get your power back. Every time you feel the ground shift, it’s him wanting centrality. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

        • Doingme. Good point on not really bonding and taking nothing from the home. x didn’t take a single photo of our kids and grandkids even when I offered them. Just his personal comfort items. Beyond my comprehension.

          • He took his stuff. I offered to get all the pictures of the kids and put them on a thumb drive or two if her got them for me. He’s never done that and clearly has no desire for them.

            So I quit asking. That window is now closed.

            • Same with mine. Said not to bother scanning our family pictures for him. Much easier to make a new life without anything to remind him of the old one I guess.

              • Mine has not asked for a single photo. I’m not going to bring it up. I put our family photo through the shredder (I have a digital copy). Felt good.

                Besides photos, most of my STBX’s stuff is still in the house. All he took were clothes and that was mostly because I threw them all out into the driveway. Trophies, childhood games & toys, etc …he hasn’t asked for.

              • I have never, nor will I ever figure out why X didn’t take one picture, even ones he framed of me or the dogs. Never asked for a photo album, or a digital photo. I thought he would have wanted one of the show pictures of our dogs winning. Nope. It’s just one of the weirdest things especially since he seemed so sentimental about those things – much more than I was.

                Maybe C/L has addressed this topic before, but I just cannot fathom how he’d want to wipe out the entire 35 yrs we were together. He loved to look at his own pictures far too much for this to make sense.

              • I can relate. X asked only for pictures of himself when he was younger. Never asked for pictures of the kids or anything else. I had to practically force him to take some of the “special” gifts from his parents that were given specifically to him. I have conveniently ignored his plea for pictures of himself. He has stopped asking. Pathetic.

        • That explains why all he took was his own personal crap, the TV, stereo and some tinned / dry food from the kitchen (yep, he took FOOD!). He didn’t want anything else, just the money from his share of the house equity. I actually feel better now I know why – thank you for this insight.

          • The Limited took his image management props including a drum set he spent thousands on even though he never played in a band. He overvalued his 86 BMW and his work van, both junk.

            He was evicted and had to move. I kept the contents of the home. Guess what he’s using his credit card for now? All those household items cost money to replace yet he deemed them to have no value.

            After being awarded the contents of the home he conned his own son into loading up the scrap pile Promising to split the cash. Luckily I saw it and made some money.

            The clean slate is very important to Cluster B’s. The Limited always said, “I’ve found someone. Don’t ruin it for me.” They explain and justify their actions to the OW with lies. Can’t have pictures or reminants of the truth lying around.

            Putting a spin on it works for them. He abandoned his children and granddaughter for TWO years. He blamed it on the OW and saying she wanted to give it time. Then he stated that he didn’t know what happened to his granddaughter.

            Evaluate just what it is you really lost by making a list. Soon over time the list of what you’ve gained becomes clear.

            • “A clean slate is important to cluster Bs”. This sounds true to me. My stbx didn’t take anything except a pan that I practically forced him to take. Guess he wanted to spend his little money on kitchen and bath stuff. Clean slate. Clean lies. Erase the past, born again.

              • Yup, my ex took his clothes. Full stop. Left behind all photos of the kids, all the keepsakes they had made him over the years, his hundreds of books (which of course I ended up packing up). He never tried to speak to any of our family friends again (not that they would have spoken to him; there was no Switzerland around here), nor to his only two friends. He just walked into a new life. Within 10 months he had moved to OW’s city.

                And now I see that he had done this just before meeting me, as well, with the demise of his previous relationship (in which, I later found out, he had cheated). Because he had moved to do a post-doc, it seemed natural that he knew no one and counted on me to build a life…

                We’re Lego pieces to them, not actual people. And they get whole new kits, discarding the old ones.

          • Mine took all the bread out of the freezer, and the large jar of peanut butter.

            Left behind all the photos of our now-grown kids over the years, all the things they’d made for him over the years. He did take all his awards and 40 year old car trophies, his high school trumpet, and his precious bed pillow. Left behind the $250 worth of diabetes test strips we’d just bought. Everything he valued was in his garage – took every single tool, nut, bolt. Even the household tool kit he’d bought for me he took, I had to buy basic tools when I moved into my new home.

            It’s just so . . . unfathomable to think someone can totally wipe you, and four decades of a life together, from existence.

        • I agree with Doingme. The disorder they suffer from leaves them incapable of forming real bonds. The only way they can feel deeply is through the perverse thrill of getting away with something. Dr. Crazy insisted tearfully that my wedding dress hang out in the open while he had Craigslist prostitutes, neighbor hookups and that “OR nurse who’d bring him coffee” in our bedroom. Through his emails and texts I saw the progression of his illness from online flirting to hookups in our home. The more he got away with, the more he needed to up the stakes to achieve the same high.

          • That high is exactly what drove him to relive the infatuation stage of what i now believe was when we first met.

            He admitted it was always about the thrill of the chase. And no it’s not an addiction; he got off on the duping as it furthers the high. And he to graduated from one nighters and god only knows what else. I no longer give a fuck. He hung himself, dickless, old, broke, and without supply.

            Sorry about the dress, nothing is sacred.

            • A high school classmate who divorced a cheating narc (wasband is now married to his Christian child bride and has two little ones) gave her wedding dress to a young neighbor to play dress up ! That’s what her 20+ marriage was,unbeknownst to her-a long bit of narcissistic theater

        • “And that is the gift the OW/OM gets, the nothingness, the void.”

          Thank you.

      • My theory is often these texts come because of one of three things:

        1. Someone asked him about his kid and he realized he didn’t know. So, he sends a text to get a little info to maintain the impression with others that he is a good father.

        2. Something happened in his life that was completely unrelated to his ex or kids but made him feel a lack of control. He then sends a text because he was able to manipulate for so long with you and kids, he wants some of that feeling of control back.

        3. He has absolutely no idea what to even say to his kid so he sends an open question that will make the kid do all the work to start the conversation.

        We get the same type of texts here;) He was actually sending my 14 and 15 year olds Bitmoji’s. Totally creeped them out…a 46 year old man shouldn’t be doing this. His 21 year younger girlfriend would though and knowing that made it even worse.

        • Oh yes, reading stbx’s hate journal is pure torture. Now lawyer wants me to go through it and make notes for up coming hearings and I am dreading it. I don’t want to face the feelings it stirs again. I don’t know what I can do to make it any better.

          • Can you give the journal to someone else you trust to pull out the key points that could be used in testimony?

            • I think I am going to ask for more clarification from attorney on what he really needs as I see no benefit in me just refuting all of cheater’s preposterous claims line by line. Things that range from I was so incompetent, I couldn’t make a grocery list to I humiliated him by rejecting him sexually for years. In the midst of these ridiculous claims, he calls me names and punctuates it with expletives over and over. As I write this, I can almost laugh at its absurdity but when I read it, hurt and anger dominate.

              • Still thinking about it: my attorney did tell me the day We first met, ithe journal was a gift. Even I can imagining the questioning: cheater, so feelingit is not even capable of buying groceries and yet you vacated the marital home leaving your children to her care? And not once since you left have you ever offered that the children come stay with you other than if they want to come to your boat at your convenience and stay there while you fish? Your excuse is you did not have enough cookware in your parent’s 7000 square foot furnished mansion , of which you were the sole occupant upon leaving your marital home? And cheater, can we confirm that you are referring to feeling it when you use the term crazy bitch in your journal?

                This doesn’t even scratch the surface but I think it gets the gist.

            • A hate journal? Holy fucking asshole. Buy a really large box of pins to stick into the voodoo doll of this disordered Fuck.

      • This line really hit home “Whatever she said she felt for you was just situational, fleeting, impermanent, variable. You ascribed meaning to it because you’re a real person with real feelings”.

        Situational ethics were what Haggar the Whoreable claimed he had. I thought originally it meant that he would lie to keep from hurting someone, when in fact it meant that he could and would lie whenever the “situation” needed to be how he wanted it.

        Additionally, I agree that they do not bond with anything. HTW left without any pictures of his daughter, his checkbook, his book collection and on and on. He was so focused on setting up his slutshack that nothing, I MEAN NOTHING, was important. (This was when he was going to “work on himself” and needed some space – hack hack). He even forgot that he took the dog and would have to come back to the slutshack and let the dog out to pee. He looked at me like I had just told him they took away his favorite toy.

        He even left his old laptop that had years of pictures of his daughter plus the added bonus of pictures of Ankles from their relationship before my time. I can only imagine what pictures he had in his “secret hidden folder” on his phone.

        Eww. They walk among us pretending to be human.

      • ‘Can’t wait until the feelings match the thoughts!’ Yes, yes yes..I just started my journey and can relate to all the tools of manipulation mentioned in these articles. Suddenly, everything is crystal clear and I see my sbtx for what he really is. My problem is that even knowing what i know, i still have feelings for him. Why can’t my feelings match my thoughts?

      • FeelingIt- a lot of questions narc cheaterass used to ask me made far more sense in hindsight (of course) and now i can most always sniff out when he’s trying to pull something. The Q your stbx texted your daughter is vague and weird and even I immediately started wondering wth is he really after here? Maybe just trying to get info? Or maybe there’s more to it. I realized that if i simply observed/waited him out, stupid cheaterass usually ended up revealing his true motives. I’m not saying you should worry about it, but i totally get how you feel in trying to discern what he’s really up to or after with such a Q. Maybe he was hoping to share some sick “good story” of his own with your daughter, knowing she’d then share it w you? It’s hard not to keep guessing, which is why I file these little oddities away until useful in making sense of something not yet fully revealed. Never a bad idea to be cautiously on guard w the really manipulative ones.

  • One of these days I need to send an email to Chump Lady about this 4 year damm saga/war with my X wife so she can put it through the translator. I have another damm hearing next week, hopefully this will be the end of this journey.

    I really do not like the court system and their inability to make rational decisions based on facts.

    • So sorry Lothos. I’m going through the same damn thing and it feels like I’m the only one who wants this done and over with. Almost nine months since I left and filed and $7,500…..Enough already!
      I hope we’re both divorced before Christmas, but I’m not holding my breath….????

      • Oh, I was divorced almost 2 years after our separation. The court battles continued for another two years after that due to her boyfriend and her buying a house and expecting me to continue to pay alimony and my daughter finally having enough of her mother and wanting to live with me fulltime because she is tired of her mother constantly trying to convince her that she was sexually and physically abused by me (which my daughter knows is not true).

        The legal system is designed to protect her (even when they catch her lying) and it provides her with all the help in the world. Mean while I am now $85,000 (YES NOT A TYPO) in attorney bills fighting for the truth.

        Things finally are coming close to an end now, my daughter tried to commit suicide a few months ago because the judge chose to ignore her wishes so she refused to listen to the judges order. After that the judge issued a temporary order granting my daughter her wishes but order her and her mother to therapy. Well the therapy failed!

        So next week we see the judge about that.

        • I’m so sorry about your daughter. And, I’m beyond disgusted with the judge for ignoring her wishes. Sending all my best thoughts your (and your daughter’s) way.

      • If you’re dealing with a real Cluster B and a back-asswards court system, don’t expect it to end when the divorce is final. Though the decree was issued in March, Dr. Crazy hasn’t turned over the few deliverables imposed on him. He’s filed frivolous motions against me while ignoring the deadlines in the document he signed. And the courts allow this!! A HEARING was just set to assess why he can’t turn over my personal property he admitted to having in his possession last December and give me a check for a measly $13k when he made $850k last year. Both of these are months over due. Instead of holding him in contempt and insisting he perform I’m told to wait another 2 months to talk about it some more. Ridiculous but not surprising given how sick and sad his life is and the circus that’s Cook County family court.

        • Yep. A court order is only as good as the person it is handed too. I got so sick of people being shocked and saying, “But he HAS to pay child support. He HAS to pay insurance. The judge said so.” Ha. That’s a good one. What happened when he did not do those things. Nothing. Over and over again. When you call any of the agencies, etc. They say file a motion and take him back to court. Why? To get another order he will promtly ignore. Even child support recovery admitted to my face that there funding was based on the amount they could recover so they weren’t going to waste effort and man hours on someone who had such a long history of shady working for cash, hop across state lines, work under a different name shenanigans because they were unlikely to catch him either. They told me point blank that they concentrate efforts on cases where the guy has a history of payment but for some reason has fallen behind recently. My experience every step through the court system was that the system is set up to reward the less responsible of the two parties

        • Oh my God Geode, do you mean Cook County Illinois? I feel your pain!

            • Cook County – where you can look out the window of Daley Center and see the boat you just bought your divorce attorney in the harbor.

    • Thank the good Lord that we didnt have jack together and we got a Divorce In A Box. Filled out the paperwork and had it done on 20 days. Of course, I lost my kick ass military insurance, but I didn’t have to pay on his 30K of student loans, either.

      • My ex pays his child support, pays his portion of the kids’ expenses, and didn’t prolong the divorce.

        I guess I’m lucky my cheater isn’t as big of an asshole as he could be.

        • We have to be grateful for small favours!

          I sure hope your ex continues to be reasonable. Mine seemed very generous and invested in the kids’ maintaining their pre-cheating life (house, school, some travel…). I felt lucky, given how bad divorcing narc can be. But now, five years in, he’s turned all nasty, and is finding ways to get as much of that ‘generosity’ back as he can.

          I think he thought I’d eventually take him back. And he’s pissed that the kids have seen who he is, and don’t have much to do with him. All my fault, of course!

    • I agree. I just had my second settlement conference. We had 3 months since the last one in which we were ordered to each hire an accountant to value his business and determine his income. I came with mine and he showed up with NOTHING. Every request for documents comes back incomplete. The last one only had about 40%. It is maddening. And there doesn’t seem to be any repercussions for the behavior. The next date the court set is 5 months from now…so I feel your pain.

      • I feel your pain too! My STBX did not show up at the last hearing (he ‘didn’t know’), has fired his lawyer, the Appointed Forensic Accountant has finished her valuation of the business report, and we are now setting depositions and trial dates… What a wanker!! He wanted the divorce, he filed, and now he does nothing but stall… Grrrrrr. I just want to be legally divorced from this moron. I’m feeling pretty good most days, but I know I can’t get over the whole thing while I’m stuck in the limbo of ‘almost’ divorced. Sucks. I have to remind myself that this IS finite.. I try to not even think about the $$ spent at this point. Hopefully 2018 will be the year it happens. Geezus.

      • Nope. No repercussions. Except you writing another monthly check to your attorney.

        • Isn’t that the truth?!?! I’m in debt past my eyeballs to divorce MVM (miserable Vomitus mass). He stalled and half assed every discovery item-only got what little we did from him on the day we went to court. In Ga, you have to take a parenting class within 30 days of filing for divorce. I did mine, but he didn’t, so the temporary child support hearing was put off. Guess when he finally got around to it? 25 days AFTER we went to court, 10 months after filing. Did he get in trouble with the courts for not going to the class? For not completing discovery? He doesn’t pay his full child support-because of the way he has worked out the math- it will be “covered” by an extra payment in September. Nope, nobody is concerned in the court system with what he didn’t do. The judge didn’t reprimand him or hold him in contempt.

          And now, I get to wait for 60 more days for the brief to be submitted to the courts and answered by his attorney for attorney fees. Already been told by my attorney that the judges hate to award attorney fees. There goes over $16k down the toilet that could have been used to replace the Hvac system in my house. Ever been to Ga in the summertime with no AC? Brutal. Could have been used to fund middle DS’s freshman year in college. All sorts of things my kids really needed.

          Still working 2 jobs even with the pittance of child support so I can pay the attorneys. Where is the justice in our justice system? Why are they (our lying, cheating scum exs) allowed to get away with this bullshit?

          • No fault divurce. No one’s to blame so everyone’s to blame. Equally.

            Shit sandwiches from our legal system too.

            • But at moments like this I remind myself that Dr. Crazy literally broke his own dick with prostitutes and can only get an erection by injecting some magic potion he prescribes himself straight into his… And then I feel a little sense of karma.

    • My story is too long and obnoxious to send the chump lady but I’d love to. The thought of typing it out though drains me. I’m at 9 month stage since D-day. The revelations have been exhausting. Together for 21 years! Explosive ending!
      I’ll start typing it up for translating… I’m doing a blog (the details are that much) so I can process it all myself but I find it so hard to get my head round. How can people we love and purport to love us do this to us? I’d never do what half these idiots do!

  • Just knowing he was texting her from my home (often while I was in the room!) was bad enough, but I don’t know you anyone copes with knowing this happened in their own home – it’s horrible, disrespectful and sick.

    Sadly, probably the only reason it didn’t happen in my house is because I made sure I was always there! That said, I have still had to redecorate and replace a lot of stuff. I’ll never understand the twisted behaviour of these disordered idiots.

  • This makes me cringe.
    A year ago exactly, my husband who abandoned me (for an emotional affair, he wanted to make physical) asked if I’d drive the kids 100 miles to see him perform at his cousins party. (He needed concert kibbles.and he wouldn’t dare.bring schmoopie out into the light).
    I didn’t know about the affair yet. He convinced me that he left because I yelled.
    After the party I was so exhausted, I decided to stay at a relative’s house, who lived just a few miles away.
    He was surprisingly happy to drive the 100 miles back to our home to watch the dogs until my return, the next day.
    My first clue should have been him asking me via text when I was going to be home. Repeatedly.
    When I got home, he was making the bed, after washing the sheets.
    A month later we reconciled, and two months after that I got the call from my obgyn that my post natal pap smear came up positive for HPV. The bad kind.
    Based on my clear pap two years prior, he strongly suggested I ask my husband about infidelity.
    My first thought went to the bed making maneuver, from a man who had previously washed the bed sheets maybe five times in previous 15 years of our togetherness.
    He admitted to the affair but still denies he ever brought her into our bed.
    I’ll never hear the truth from him, so I’m going with my gut… And the evidence on this one.

    • It’s just absolutely unforgiveable. And unbelieavable. It’s so hard initially to wrap your mind around how they could do such a thing. It brings back the devastation for me finding out about yet another schmoopie. He was taking her to the most expensive restaraunt in town under the ‘we are just friends’ guise. Using our 14 y.o. daughter as schmoopie bait (she was our daughter’s twenty something y.o. assistant soccer coach) and he was volunteer coaching. My daughter was invited to a dinner there with a friend and I wanted to just vomit as I was walking through the restaraunt. Although bringing them into your home seems like the lowest of the low, they just suck and don’t care about you, the kids, the family life they are threatening. Just all collateral damage in their kibble seeking. It’s sick.

    • I’m sorry to agree that your gut is right on this one.
      Also sorry to say that it wasn’t an emotional affair that he wanted to make physical.
      From someone far removed, I will wager that this wasn’t the first or only time….
      Be happy he left and get the divorce process going asap.

    • FedupChump, that is very creepy, and I think he planned the whole thing! From asking you to watch him play, to get you out of town, etc. All of it was probably to get his latest fling into your inner sanctum of your bedroom, so he could give you the middle finger. Why don’t they put all that massive, conniving effort into, say, running a complex business, or guiding their children to adulthood? Why? Why put your brains and energy into being a CON? This is why I harbor hate for my X. Big giant conman. Very, very smart, and used it to sit around the house for like 5 years, and since he was bored, he had to hop in bed with the neighbor, what else could he do? Work? Hahahaha! Silly, he’s too smart for that!
      I got HPV too ????
      It’s scary, and I worry about my poor cervix (and I loathe PAP tests), so I wish you luck, think positive, eat healthy, so maybe we won’t get cancer down there.

      • Fed up chump. I felt the same way about my lazy-ass STBX. Instead of finishing the remodel on our house so I could retire, he spend hours texting and screwing his gold digger whore. If he focused that energy on actually getting a job and helping out, he might not have felt so “controlled” and “man-child like”. What schmucks!

      • Before I was diagnosed with HPV, it had progressed quickly to squamous cell due to a steroid Dr. Crazy had prescribed me for a condition I’d later learn I never had. He encouraged me to have my procedure at a hospital where he didn’t work and told his colleagues and staff that I was having surgery because I’d lost our love child.

    • FedUpChump – ‘My first clue should have been him asking me via text when I was going to be home. Repeatedly.
      When I got home, he was making the bed, after washing the sheets.”

      This^^ Another cheating cliche’ for the books.
      I was suddenly traveling by myself twice a month for dog shows; he used to come with me to all of them.
      It was our hobby.
      And, we took our lovely m/h on those 6 yrs of traveling the country.
      When he quit going, he always pushed me to go alone to a show (twice the work) and, kept asking when I was leaving…and phoning on my way home to try and get the right hour when I’d be back. He was supposed to be staying home to watch the other dogs.

      Long story short – When I came home, he had that weird smell and the extra bedroom stunk the same way.
      He would be washing the bed sheets and I assumed he was sleeping back there than instead of our own bedroom, for some reason.
      Then, one day he comes home from a ‘solo’ m/h trip, and brings in all my r/v clothes out of the closet and plunks them down. (now, you think I’d be getting a little fishy about some of this, and I was but didn’t connect the dots)
      When I went to the m/h in storage I looked it through and through for hairs – the bed was made far too perfect and the shower didn’t have one hair in it. Men don’t leave a m/h spiffy like that. But, it was the awful fusty smell I smelled. It was the same one as in the house. I felt nauseated, grabbed a few favorite cups and ran out of there.
      Never to go back to that sweet memory of MY motorhome being totally violated. Bad enough my house back home. It was the S-M-E-L-L in two distinct places! UGH

  • I love that you suggested to burn the bed. I did just that, and am happily sleeping alone, on a mattress on the floor. Best sight that I have seen in months was that sucker going up in flames!

    • I want to move house! He had them both in here, with the kids upstairs asleep whilst I was out working late shifts!

  • Mine too. I’m right with you in that–WTF and ewwww! Mine did it in our marital bed, and our cottage bed and our florida house bed and the cherry on top was the bed in the house trailer. Sick f#cker… he was like a dog marking his territory and a giant f#ck you to me. And what nasty ass slut screws a husband laying right next to his wife’s clothes hanging in our closet without a door and my jewelry and trinkets on the night stand next to her??? There is no untangling that skein of fuckedupness!!

  • Oh and I sold the bed(it went for good money as it was high end furniture) . I’m happy in my IKEA bed with my new decent man thank you very much…

    • I gave the entire bedroom set away for nothing. Did not want any part of it. And I too have an IKEA bedroom set (all I could afford) and am very happy with it because it is mine!

  • CL – you had me a “hip waders” (well, that and a welders mask)… Good Lord, what is it with these entitled fuckwits. Truly, that they think they really ARE that special.

    AF – you dodged a bullet, my friend. I’d like to buy you a beer and congratulate you. You didn’t marry her. You didn’t breed with her. And, now you have a valid reason to shop for new furniture (or heck, a new house!). Talk about winning! You are mighty.

    But, I know the betrayal hurts like a motherfucker. It won’t forever. Don’t get lost in the netherlands of trying to understand Her. As CL always reminds us, people like your SO and my Mr. Sparkles lack character. We don’t share the same values. If you can keep it that simple in your mind (and chant it over and over again when your mind wanders) it becomes abundantly clear. Know your worth. (And I highly recommend Belgian Linen sheets!)

  • Wow – they don’t ascribe meaning to things – I must have missed this post when I was doing my catch-up reading. That says so much – succinct and profound. Without untangling – it encapsulates the reality of the x – there was no meaning to any of the shared experiences – anything. Thank you!

    • Yes, and another description from CL that struck me in that same epiphany sort of way from another post was “they don’t experience the connectedness of things”. Very similar in meaning. The connectedness of things. It put just the right words to a profound experience empaths just have automatically, so much so we reflexively project it onto others. We don’t ever stop to identify this experience as a “thing” or describe it ever…for our entire lives it’s just always been part of what life is. Then, when forced to experience Cluster B evil and the disordered’s disconnect from meaning we can’t even grasp it at first. Our map of reality has no categories for understanding what we’re experiencing. Of course we know of famous psychopaths and so on but that’s always been something “out there”, right? They attack immediately, from a dark corner…they wouldn’t live with you. If they did you’d of course recognize their strangeness and beady eyes, right? But this sort of thing, what we’re seeing, a delightful and accomplished and normal, and cunningly evil actor can’t possibly exist. And yet the bloody-knife facts are before us. It’s seemingly impossible that this person and this behavior exist in one being. No one will believe it, just as you almost can’t. And it’s been literally years of this. It’s almost surreal because of how foreign it is to our own lifelong internal experience. What the hell is this?! And on top of this spinning unreality (all too real) is the pain of the loss of so much. In fact, everything important in life. All meaning. All trust. All memory. It’s like a death, but the dead person is still there, and not only that…they are and have been snearing at and mocking you. As Emerson said “Death is often the kindest way to loose someone”. I now know what he means. Put it all together and you have nothing short of psychological trauma. Sorry to have rambled on, I just wanted to agree…sometimes CL provides just the right description of a thing to capture its essence and make so much come together. You can hardly begin to detraumatize until you gain these new reference points and add new territory to your map of reality and a fuller understanding of what these people are and how it differs, as a type, from what you are.

      • They don’t ascribe value to dates either. The fact that my first DDay was my daughter’s 8th birthday (he told me), announced he was leaving on my birthday, arranged to move his shit out on our 11th anniversary, and filed for divorce on the 10th anniversary of our son’s funeral, pretty much emphasizes he did not give a shit about anyone else but himself.

        • Sunflower, the bastard I threw out was very methodical using anniversary and birthdates to wound me further with his dastardly ways. I will bet dicks to donuts he timing was no coincidence. He is just one sick fuck.

          Thank God, he is gone.

          • Probably not. Funny how none of this shit was ever done on his birthday.

            • My Dad died on the anniversary of the day I married The Fucktard. I was grateful because I already hated that day.

              • Survivor — I’m sorry to hear about your dad. I can sort of relate. My dad died two weeks before being discarded by my partner of 20 years for the AP. It was an unbearably shitty time.

        • They may not ascribe value to those important dates, but they do understand the value of those dates to you. My EX new of my absolutely overwhelming love of the Christmas holiday season. From Thanksgiving through the epiphany was very special to me. Massive decorating a giant family dinner with extended family on Thanksgiving, a big dessert party in early December, a cookie exchange an “ELF” party, driving around looking at lights, midnight Mass, gifts, my birthday (Boxing Day) and a dozen other traditions. My DDay was two days before Thanksgiving when I was cooking for about 20 people including his asshole family. He walked out without a word Christmas Day. I found him in a hotel with main OW on my birthday. He asked to come home the second week of January like nothing strange had happened and feigned incredulity about the significance of his actions timing. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing. The Great Assholio wasn’t oblivious; he was cruel beyond measure.

        • My ex was away getting his anus penetrated by his slut on the morning of our sons birthday! Telling me he was in town looking for a present!!
          Sorry, TMI! But it’s shit like this that when you find out makes one realise that they are sick! I’m not sure when my anger will subside but I’m so thankful for this site x

        • They try to destroy any special day that could bring you any modicum of happiness. NO happiness for you, Chump, I need kibbles NOW!

          JAMF had me served, at the bar, as I was working a very busy happy hour, alone, as close to my 40th bd as he could. Since BD was Sunday & a holiday, he couldn’t do it on the actual day whilest working. Rather than tear his face off & wiping my ass with it, ignored that POS. I’m sure he waited all weekend for a response.

      • Wow TKO you hit the nail on the head!!! So well put and so completely true. Surreal is a word I’ve used many times these past 10 months. It’s taken me this long to really start understanding enough to just let go. And so true that we can’t begin to detraumatize until we really learn this new reality. It is, indeed, surreal.

        Wishing all my fellow chumps out there a positive and productive day!

      • TKO —

        Thank you. I love that Emerson quote, and I’ve shared with friends and family the same sentiment many times. I wish he had died. They see that as very dark and don’t understand because they haven’t been through it. But had he died, the path forward would have been clear. Condolences from everyone including his family. Rituals that bring closure. Straightforward grief. I’d want to hold onto a few of his things, including photos of our 20 years together, instead of being tortured with not knowing what to do with them (I’ve since unceremoniously tossed them). I wouldn’t have to be concerned with running into him and the AP around town. I wouldn’t have lost more than half of my friends who believed his lies that I was angry and abusive.

        Dead is dead. Sort of dead (discarded and never needing/wanting to see him again) results in a lurching towards some unknown future with an unresolved past in tow. What of when he dies? Will I know? Will I wake up in the middle of the night calling out his name? Do I grieve again once I find out he’s dead? Will the rage I’ve managed to tame come bounding back? I don’t know how to do this, and most friends/family can’t help plot out a coarse. Being a widower is a harrowing fate, I know that. This? This is some sort of purgatory.

        I wish I didn’t care–that I didn’t feel so deeply. I know he isn’t tortured by the same. I’m 48 and out in the dating scene not finding anyone that feels like a good fit. Lots of ageism out there. Hookup culture. So many wanting open relationships. No thanks. I’m hopeful I will meet someone who I believe is worthy of my might and me of his, but boy is it tiring. Sometimes when I’m interested in someone and days/weeks go by without a response to text messages, I feel discarded all over again, and the anxiety comes back in full-force. I question my worthiness. Had he died, I suspect this next phase would be easier. Dead is dead.

        • This is so spot on.

          I’ve wondered the same thing…. when he does actually die, will I grieve At this level all over again?

          And the rituals, the expectations of others when a relationship ends with death, let’s face it…. the attention of others KNOWING how deeply cut we are in the death of a loved one…. they’re rightful kibbles.

          We get none when we’re discarded…

        • Chumpdude, I often wonder whether I’ll grieve when my ex passes away if it happens before I do. Will I go to the funeral when we basically stopped having any kind of relationship with each other? So my kids will go but I’m not a part of that side of their family any more? I will tell you that a relative of mine was abandoned by a cheating spouse. About 15 years later he died, and it did hit her all again. She really loved him at one time…and she went through a few days of sadness. But she bounced back.

          Just last night (5 years after D-day) I had a dream that my ex surprised me with a bouquet of flowers and said, “I really loved you when we were married.” Then he said, “We’ve both been through hell,” after which I woke up. Unfortunately I still dream about him and think about him frequently, and am now wondering if it will ever stop. I’m pretty sure I barely cross his mind. If so, I don’t think he has any emotion tied to those memories like I do.

      • Yes – I have never really quite understood that i see things in a more connected way than many people see them – a CN friend has made me more aware of this and i’m starting to see it more in myself – but it certainly helps to see that concept to understand why the disconnect in so many areas existed – they don’t have that inherent connectedness understanding…
        thanks TKO and CL and JT!

  • Something I can’t understand is my cheater knew his AP is unstable. She is an emotional drama queen, very loud and no class. Cries at the drop of a hat, especially when she’s had a drink. Her financial situation is precarious at best. Her judgement questionable, she married a guy on a cruise ship and threw him out after a month. Her adult kids are screwed up and have a all kinds of marital and financial issues. I know all this because he told me about her in a very derogatory way. He liked gossip. This was at least a year before he announced he wanted a divorce, when at that time, he said he had feelings for her for 2 years, WTF.?? People that know her confirm she’s a basket case. So why does someone knowingly hook themselves up with a nut job? It makes realize it really didn’t matter who it was it was just an escape route. He couldn’t go without someone waiting in the wings. This women isn’t attractive, a little older then him has nothing to offer except sex I guess, but certainly doesn’t look like a sex kitten ! He knowingly, walked into this with open eyes. I cannot see any future for him and her, I’m sure she’ll spend his money and pitch him out. The whole thing is fraught with disaster and at his age 68 time is not on his side. I can never forgive him or take him back after what he’s put me through but you have to marvel at their logic, they’re really fucked up!

    • I mean, I’ve definitely heard of cheaters who want someone they can “rescue”.

      • Bingo, they want to be heroes and they define their worth by putting others down and being on a higher level.

        I blatantly saw this behavior in my bil’s relationships but missed it in my own. I saw all the drama brought to family gatherings with his x and now his current gf. He would just sit back and watch it like a show. He was entertained by the conflict between his partners and his mother. The latest would drink lots of wine and become loud and obnoxious saying some embarrassing things. He would just sit back with a sort of little smile on his face like he was watching an entertaining movie. Finally, he would corral the “poor thing” and take her home to sober the pathetic thing up.

        Later, Stbx would tell me how superior he was to his brother because he didn’t have such craziness in his life. Today, however, I am the crazy evil bitch that abused him for years.

        • Yes, he was always playing the hero always trying to impress always seeking attention. It’s like they seem to delight in watching/gossiping about other people’s craziness but at the same crave that drama themselves.
          I don’t know why I am even thinking about this I mean really what does it matter. The guys a jerk and out of my life. I guess it’s still baffling to me on some level.

          Yesterday,I was told by my friend that a mutual friend of ours was getting a pedicure and overheard the manicurist telling her client how upset she was with her sister . Seemed the sister was having an affair with this married guy and he had left his wife. The manicurist was ver upset and angry because the same thing had happened to her. She couldn’t believe her sister would breakup someone’s marriage, as a result they weren’t speaking. After a few minutes, my friend realized it was my cheater and her sister that they were talking about. The karma bus is patrolling!

      • VC, why is it they never think to “rescue” us? God knows over the years I sure as hell could have used a hand at times. I would have liked help with the house, kids, and yard. I would have loved to have some more money funneled toward the family. When they have AP they do all this with aplomb. And it isn’t like he used to do those things for me and stopped. He NEVER helped me and he acted like that was perfectly normal.

    • Lyndloo – Your exhusband wasn’t looking for someone quality, just someone he could have sex with. Just like immature guys who go looking around to get laid, they aren’t looking for the mother of their children, they just want someone to bed. Just like your ex, the next person they are attracted to, they sleep with. It has nothing to do with their moral, character or values. She can be a nut, but so long as she’s giving him sex, he doesn’t care about anything else. He’s out to please his dick only.

      • Yep. My STBX definitely did this … it’s like women are walking blow-up dolls to him.

        Egads, I truly hate him — for what he did to me, yes; but also because we have three daughters and this impacts them on so many levels; and because his views on women are so abhorrent. I guess what I’m saying is I hate his “value” system (or, more specifically, LACK of a value system and the ability to fake one).

        • *That last line should read:
          I guess what I’m saying is I hate his “value” system (or, more specifically, LACK of a value system. I also hate his ability to fake having one).

        • I am extra mad because of the daughter thing too. I think about the fact that her father — the man who fucked prostitutes throughout practically our entire marriage and seems to value sex above all else — will be washing her at bath time and changing her diapers while she’s with him on those days that he takes her. It makes me cringe. Eventually, she will grow up and have questions and curiosities and I only pray that I am around to answer them when they arise. His view on women has been covertly horrid from the start (he had a pretty shitty example in his mother and father). I missed those flags, and now I think of our daughter and it makes me sick.

          • I feel your pain, momma. I am struggling with this, too. I don’t have any advice for you. Just know you are not alone. Hang in there.

      • I know my ex wanted the thrill of new p*ssy, and he needed it to be really easy, on offer, but much more than that, he wanted someone who looked at him w/those googly admiring eyes, like we all do in the beginning. He didn’t even consider what kind of person he was exploding his family for. Hint; she was trash, who had exploded her own kids’ family by cheating before, and who eventually dumped my ex, for another man. Twice.

        Open legs and adoring eyes. That’s all he valued. It’s probably all he had valued about me, although he got way more than that. And all he valued about the girlfriend before me, who sounded like a decent and caring person. And the current girlfriend too. Oh, she also has money, this one. Bonus!

    • Well, if you heard all of this from him, take it with a grain of salt. He was probably lying to you about how her in order to make you think “he doesn’t like her so he definitely isn’t banging her.”

  • I figure burning a bit of sage in that room after the cheater is moved out couldn’t hurt.

      • I must be at meh, I had forgotton all about the scratch marks on his back. I can’t even recall the excuse/lies.

        • Haha … mine actually used the “the dog did it” excuse. Yep. Perfectly aligned, five-fingered scratch curved around the back of his rib cage — and the dog did it!? *facepalm

          Sadly, he sold the marriage counselor on this horrendously infantile excuse. One of his few areas of expertise = lying with charm.

      • And dollar store perfume, jewelry, toiletries. And rearrange shit in the marital bedroom.

    • I found a ladies shirt in my bed!
      Then, X said some dumb thing like he left it there, like why would she give it to him? I put it in the front yard, poured lighter fluid on it, and set it on fire. Just for fun.
      Now I know, I shouldn’t have, cause drama was what he was after, as you were discussing above. But I was pissed. Mostly I kept my cool, though, through the games he played.

    • Either cheater X or his “new” girlfriend (who knows how long that’s been going on, but he moved on before the ink was dry on the divorce papers at the very least) left her shoes in the front of his apartment so I would be sure to see them when I walked in to visit with my dog. It’s territorial pissing. All I have to say is: “Enjoy your turd prize!” (that, and “You may want to get tested!”)

  • I don’t think my ex ever took the OW (now wife) to our bed. Not because he’s a saint or anything but our neighbors kept an eye on everything so that probably would have gotten back to me.

    After dday it occurred to me that this might have happened but rather than come right out and ask, I said “Is there any reason I should burn our bed?” He looked me straight in the eye and said “No, she always paid for the hotel room. She’s got a lot of money and when her parents die, she’ll get a lot more.” I half expected his eyes to roll into dollar signs like you would see on old cartoons. I was still in a state of shock so believe it or not, I stuck around for some tortuous wreckconciliation, even after that comment.

    Whenever I think of gems like that it gives me a warm fuzzy that they’re married now. They both got what they deserved. I fled the marital home as if it were on fire when I finally bought a clue and bought myself a whole new bed and all new linens regardless. Cheaters lie too.

    • “I was still in a state of shock so believe it or not, I stuck around for some tortuous wreckconciliation, even after that comment.”

      I never knew how powerful shock was. I cannot believe all the crazy things I said and did while pick me dancing . I have all kind of “why didn’t I…? Moments. At least I know from chump nation pick me dancing or raging: it doesn’t matter with the disordered, they don’t change.

      • It really is. I found that I didn’t ask the questions or do the things I should have. Normally, I’m a pretty thorough/inquisitive person, especially when it comes to my health and well-being. Stupid things like simply asking him for and not looking at his STD test results (the ones I had to ask him to get in the first place) and then holding off on doing it myself, even though I had a regularly scheduled doctor’s appointment a couple of weeks after DDay. It felt kind of like a small, yet very strong part of me just didn’t want to accept what happened, even though the majority of me knew the gravity of what he did and what I had to do.

    • You know – this points out something that I think is worth noting.

      I believe that not all cheaters cheat just for sex. In my case Princess YogaPants was gloating about the money she’d be coming in to. We do “ok” but her Twoo Wuv had a fair bit more and perhaps she thought he’d be a bit more free in spending it.

      I’m sure that she put out with great enthusiasm but remembering our sex life, she used it to control me and got little pleasure from it especially as her pain and mobility issues got worse over the years.

      I’m actually surprised that they’re still together because at least all those decades ago once she got what she wanted and had that ring on her finger the excuses started.

      Well – not my problem any more and not my concern either.

      A lot of the writing on here focuses on the sex end of infidelity and that as a motivator, but for quite a number of cheaters have other motivations as well. Regardless of why they cheat though, they are still cheaters and we’re still chumps and the pain for us is still very very real.

      • Bow Tie, I think you’re on to something here. My asshole Cheater wanted constant validation, “look at me” he was never satisfied, always wanted more and more. What normal person leaves a 40 year relatiobship, retired at 53, no money worries, travelled all over the world, 3 great step children that adored him, 4 grandchildren that loved him and a good wife who loved and cared for him. But, it wasn’t enough, it was never enough! He was always looking for more validation ,more money, bigger house, jealous of everyone, always comparing what “they” had vs what we had. He had a very high opinion of himself and held himself out to be a great guy, Afterall, he married a women with three kids, he used to brag about all of them, how well they did for themselves. As if it was because of him. These cheating jerks are trying to fill the whole in their soul with anyone who will tell them they’re wonderful. They are incapable of empathy and love and their sick needs out-way everything else. He had all anyone could ever want and it wasn’t good enough. We are all well rid of them!

        • I know the motivation for mine was- to not be ordinary. He had to have drama, people’s jaws dropping over his behavior, to be the topic of speculation and wonder. Anything but being average.
          Amazingly, when he contacts me now, it’s because he wants that normal, quiet, life back!

      • Definitely yes on the validation. Today’s topic points out that having the spouse know that they were unfaithful in their bed gives the cheater a little more “look at me” high from the shock of it all. There is also the thought that it’s just them being the center of the story and feeling fine using the bed (it’s *their* bed afterall!) and we’re all just peripheral characters.

      • Bow tie

        It’s always about power and control. Seriously, the Limited can’t get it up and wets the bed.

        Dating entailed talking about his dick. An OW from 2010 told me this. The one he landed with that year was duped. Once I told her he was married and dumped me fit her she said, “You call that sex?”

        Getting Nanthony to go to a hotel within a week of meeting her=power
        Fuckimg whores at home and washing the sheets =power.

        Sick fucks.

  • Any person with a moral compass that allows room for deliberately deceiving a partner about any significant thing is a person whose choices pertaining to every other topic are questionable at best and highly likely to be repulsive at worst.

    Being an AP is bad, no doubt about it. But lying to your partner about secret relationships/sex is cruel and repugnant to a far greater degree, IMHO.

    Just the fact that the person can chat at all is clear evidence that the partner will never be safe with the person, ever. Even if the cheater never cheats again, deception will remain strong in the cheater’s character. Years of targeted therapy may impact this, sure, if the cheater is truly committed to change, but it will still be a VERY long time before the cheater can slog through enough personal work to even resemble a trustworthy person.

  • My cheater brought the ow to our house. Actually MY house (I owned it) and also in the bed I paid for. I don’t have proof but now retrospectively I know he did because he changed the bedsheets.

    I was pregnant at the time and had gone to visit a friend for the weekend, when I came home he went ballistic at me about how he’d had to change the bedsheets because I never changed them and I was dirty and disgusting. I changed them weekly and this was the one and only time in our whole relationship that he changed the sheets!!

    When I tell people that he had her in my house, people always say there’s no way he would do that. My reply is always if he will cheat on his pregnant girlfriend he won’t care where he will do it.

    When I rang the OW to ask her what was going on she was more shocked by the fact that “his” house was actually mine than the fact that I was pregnant.

  • When Kunty Kibbler requested the open marriage, one of the “rules” she committed to was “never, ever in our house.” She reiterated it a few times when I was still in the pick-me dance of “understanding,” allowing her the freedom to “become the person I was always meant to be.” (#alwaysmeanttobeacunt)

    That didn’t stop her from secretly inviting the Carrot Singer into our house on two occasions that I know of — once the morning after our 15th anniversary (“hang back until you see the school bus pull away, then come on in”) and again while I was in Europe for business (“I can’t wait to see you — I’ve got some nice cookies waiting ;)”). The only reason they didn’t befoul my home a third time is because I intercepted their communication and confronted her before he showed up. Her reason? “Because we have no place else to go.”

    It was an exceedingly painful lesson about what CL points out today: “there are no limits to what they’ll do for kibbles. Their narcissism is so intense, the need for kibbles so great, as to block out any sentient thought.” We chumps simply don’t matter.

    The only thing more gut-wrenching is to hear her constantly refer to it as a “mistake, but at least I admit it — you NEVER own up to your mistakes.”

  • Yuck! I subscribe to Mr, CL’s theory. My XW’s OM was auditioning for my role, which included romping in my bed with my wife.

    About a month before I filed, I went away for a long weekend to visit my parents and sisters, sans wife. She was pissed to be excluded, but I didn’t want to invite her because “something still felt off” (aka, my chumpiness was waning, and I subconsciously suspected she was still cheating).

    I did the laundry and changed the sheets before I left. (Laundry was one of my spousal chores.) Five days later, when I came home, I arrived to wife putting freshly cleaned sheets on the bed.

    Took me a little while to pick up in that, but I did. I didn’t even bother to say anything. By that point, I was starting to accept that I could get divorced. It’s possible that I wouldn’t, but given how my wife continued to treat me, that possibility was dwindling.

  • In early December 2016, my husband and I posed for our annual holiday family photo with all of us wearing the matching “ugly” sweaters he had suggested, yet as it turns out, he was the one really doing the “posing”. About a month later, I found out that he had sex with his howorker in our bed on the same day we had taken that photo. To do so, he had to traipse her up the stairs past our Christmas tree, our hanging stockings, etc. She had her own apartment at the time where Uber receipts show my STBX had spent ample time, yet he still chose to take her to our home on that particular day! (Wonder if she used my toothbrush after that romp?) Additionally, he didn’t change or wash the bedding before I was back in our bed with him mere hours later. This heinous violation created such a vile image in my mind which resulted in MONTHS of an almost masochistic ritual of my filling the bathtub with scalding water where I would soak until frigid only to refill the tub over and over again as an attempt to burn the vile germs off of me. I left him that tainted bed when I moved out after DDay. I regret not taking a permanent marker and writing something on the mattress such as “Adultery Committed Here!” Learning that narcs such as my husband attach no significance to objects or even living beings somewhat explains what I consider the biggest “Fuck you!” of his overall betrayal. I still think that the sadistic OW got her jollies off by being in my home and considered it the ultimate win. She lives there now with him and that really makes me question her level of self respect albeit she is a bankrupt parasite so her need for a place to live trumps anything else I’m sure.

    • I don’t buy that they attach no significance to objects if they do something like this. I think it’s the opposite and they choose to defile significant objects (the bed, the Christmas tree). Just like we feel we need to have some sort of purification ritual when they are gone, they have done their own ritual in these objects to ward off the good in them, like we need to ward off the evil.
      I’m not a believer but I agree with Divorce Minister that there is something demonic in this, they are deliberately doing something evil and defiling all the good things they can think of.

  • Oh the hip waders CL!!! I picture it so clearly!

    Here are some thoughts of why your home to screw an affair partner. It would be fun to think of this like a Family Feud gameshow challenge.

    1) just trust that they suck and your feelings never mattered 71
    2) they are cheap and don’t want to spend money 12
    3) it’s a big fuck you to their spouse/SO 10
    4) the thrill of standing on the edge of the cliff and not falling (not getting caught) 4
    4) token memories of where they fucked behind your back when they are feeling bored 3

    I so wish I had more time to dedicate. I can only really use humor now because I am a year out from Dday #2 and divorce was final last fall. I wasn’t ready for it initially so I am sorry to the newbies out there still in deep pain. It gets better–I remember reading this statement and just wishing I was months out from it. But you do have to go through the pain and experience the stages of grief.

    AF she just sucks. Her affair partner sucks. They are not wonderful and special. It’s nothing you did or didn’t do. They are both disordered. Fix that picker. What about her made it seem like she was all that to you? Time and distance really help shed light on what they were really like because your blinders have now been removed. It takes time to realize you are the real winner in this. Sounds like you didn’t have kids with her. You score double bonus points for this. The fact that she was so blatant to bring some dipwad into your home and screw him in your bed is a 2 x 4 some of us don’t get. I can’t imagine trying to wreckoncile after this and it makes moving on look like the only real way to proceed. Nothing to work with as CL says.

  • I do take some comfort in the fact that my picker really wasn’t that off. My family and friends thought he was great too, especially in comparison to my 1st husband. However, I knew he cheated on his first wife, an exit affair that I completely discounted, and that is exactly what he did to me…supposedly. (At least I was never an OW) I take responsibility for that….for believing affairs weren’t as big of a deal until it happened to me. That’s where I suck.

    There’s at least one other one I highly suspect he cheated with about 5 years ago. But who knows. Knowing he cheated on his first wife, actually keeps me from having as much sympathy and discounting my “trust that he sucks.” Otherwise, I’d be chalking it up to his decline since our son died.

    But then, I experienced the same loss and still didn’t fuck someone else.

    • I suck for the same reason, Sunflower. I don’t know if it’s that I didn’t think it was a big deal, but rather that I had no idea what to think about the person who committed the cheating (it was easier to understand that to be cheated on really sucked). The depth of the fuckedupedeness of these people is what astounded me when it happened to me, especially when I looked back at all of the signs and put it together into the puzzle of fundamental/underlying problems with him as a human being. I think it’s difficult to really understand that until you experience it, unfortunately.

      • Oh, and he had my family fooled too. They’re pretty good judges of character too (or, at the very least, skeptical people).

  • Cheaters are very simple, in the end. Why cheat instead of ask for an open marriage beforehand? POWER. Deception involves having power over someone else, because you alter their life’s trajectory. The chump makes different decisions than they otherwise would if they had full information about their cheater’s shenanigans.

    The greater the deception, the greater the violation, the more intoxicating is their power. Yes, they get off on the violations–to the chump, to the house, to the marital bed, to the shared confidences that the chump may have confided over time. They really are that sick.

    • See my comment above — even if they ARE ballsy enough to ask for an open marriage, the intoxication of deception, being “bad” and gaining power over someone who, by their very existence, limits the cheater’s ability to “be the person I want to be” is simply too great.

      • Frankly, I think asking for an open marriage either means

        (a) deception has already taken place, as it did in my case; after Hannibal’s affair with gradwhore, which I did not find out about for 8 more years (though did recognize he’d been behaving strangly), he sent me a foul letter demanding threesomes, foursomes, that he watch me engage in lesbian sex–which I agreed to in principle, with no intention of actually doing as I figured he’d come to his senses soon.

        (b) it is a further indication of the need for power–you take vows with a partner, which includes “forsaking all others” and then use emotional manipulation to convince the partner to alter his/her moral compass, as happened in your case, UX.

        Either way, it boils down to power.

        • Exactly. I’m starting to think of cheating at that level as in the same book, different chapter, as rape. The partner is not able to give consent to what he or she doesn’t know.

        • OMG exactly my scenario, change our wedding vows to suit his desire to explore others sexually but still have his home and me waiting patiently for him. DELUSIONAL. Saying NO created the longest narc rage ever. Still going on. Still having temper tantrums cos he didn’t get his way. Did he really think I would say yes? Apparently he did, now he’s transferred all his hatred and anger to my attorney, whatever.

          • The Traitor demanded the right to have a menage a trois with his ex. His plan was we would carry on with our life on the farm and he would have his ex as his fuckbuddy in town because he didn’t want meaningless sex with prostitutes! How sweet… What kind of life was I supposed to want in that plan? I refused, he raged at me, and said my feelings for their son were “filthy”. Why? Part of his arguments to convince me to go along with this was that I loved their son as my own son and our life should stay the same. Presumably this arrangement wasn’t going to change in my life because in fact this had been going on for a long time behind my back. He tried to use my love for their son to make me agree.
            To which I replied that I didn’t know if I loved him like my own son because I’ve never been so lucky to have a child so I don’t know what that’s like but I knew that I loved him with all my heart.
            Yep, filthy Kiwichump…
            And he continued with his rage for another week until he tricked me into staying at home on the farm with their little boy (“It will be good for you to have time together alone”), while he was visiting his other sons… except he only stayed there one evening and spent the rest of the time with his ex. I found out because his eldest son phoned me looking for Dad.

            BeowulfSabrina, I ‘ve just realised reading your post that what he did was full-blown Narc raging at me when I didn’t give him the kibbles he was entitled too because of his awesome greatness.
            I am a slow learner.

    • Yep. My STBX threatened to reveal something to my kids that I had confided in him when I was 19. He wanted me to convince our son to start talking to him again. When I refused and told him that fixing what he broke was for him to do, he pulled this out. They are definitely sick.

      • Oh, my ex has threatened to show our 7 and 9 year old all the pissy texts I sent him, like that was some kind of threat. He told them I’ve been flipping him the bird every chance I get and they asked me about it.

        I told them yes I had. I explained I
        Was still very mad at him and that eventually I’d get over it and that I wasn’t proud of it, but that I was working to get where I just don’t care so much anymore.

        He acts like I have something to hide. I’ve nothing to fear from the truth, because I’ve ultimately done nothing wrong.

      • Beat the bastard to the punch and tell your kid yourself. He’s 19, not a baby.

        Take the power out of that right damn now!

        • Oh… you were 19.

          Well, a youthful indescretion should not be held over your head. Take it away!

          • We are now both 46. That is how far back he had to go. And I did sit my kids down and tell them. Not a great moment for me but we got through it ok.

    • What I don’t get is why do they marry in the first place? Spare their partners and potential children all the hassle and pain by not pledging fidelity in the first place.

      • Soldiering, they want to see themselves as good husbands/wives and project that image to the world. It’s all part of the act to hide their true narcissistic personality. Remember, they’re special people! Ugh!

  • The torturous text message/ email. I remember thinking during wreckonciliation how I wish I had never read them because they were so haunting. It’s hard to speckle when the truth is staring you in the face!
    Now that we are divorcing, I’m glad I have a clear picture of just who he is!

    • In an odd way, every shitty thing they do makes “getting over it” a bit easier. Once you see them for who they really are instead of who you thought they were, you can move forward.

      • This is what’s helping me. I certainly don’t want him back, rather the person I thought he was (no longer, since I know this person didn’t exist) or to have never broken up our family in the first place (too late, was never in my power to prevent)

    • Oh yes, reading stbx’s hate journal is pure torture. Now lawyer wants me to go through it and make notes for up coming hearings and I am dreading it. I don’t want to face the feelings it stirs again. I don’t know what I can do to make it any better.

      • I’m so sorry, Feelingit. Is there any way you could ask a close relative or friend to read it for you? Your lawyer is basically asking you to pick the scab off your wound and start the healing process all over again.

        Lisa Arends writes about reading the letter her ex sent repeatedly over the years. The further out she got from D-day, and the more she learned had been going on when he wrote the letter, the more she saw the meaning of his writing from a different perspective. She talks about it in her book “Lessons from the end of marriage.” It might help you to read that part.

  • I think they do it because later they like remembering what they did “right there” whole their spouse is oblivious. I think they get a kick out of knowing a naughty thing that their spouse doesn’t. It feels powerful to hold that secret.

    • My X also showed me things that students had given him (like an African necklace), supposedly as “thank you” gifts for being a good professor (of course what he ‘schooled’ them in was very different than what I imagined). In reality, I think he was just flaunting his affair trophies.

    • I don’t know about that. When our infant son started pulling and eating pieces of carpet from the throw rug, and climbing on the couch, the ex lost it. I did not understand why at the time. Everything had to go. He threw it all out. Of course I found the pictures after I walked. But it really got to him regarding our son.

  • Great column, and one that is worth rereading!

    I knew that CheaterX and Schmoopie were having an affair when I left for my annual week at my mom’s house. At that time, I still had access to his phone, which is how he did most of his communication. Imagine my surprise when I found a picture he’d taken of Schmoopie on our back porch. She was wearing his leather Australian drover’s hat, wearing his wedding ring, and smoking a cigar.

    I never had any doubt that they’d had sex in the marital bed, or that she’d basically moved in while I was gone.

    The photo clearly showed that the two of them were really getting off on playing house. Wearing that hat, wearing that ring–it was clear that Schmoopie was making a claim on my husband, but also very clear that he was claiming her. It was a complete and total discard of our life together. For that week, they could pretend that they were living the married life.

    When they finally got their shot at married life, it didn’t last long. Apparently Schmoopie accused CheaterX of having an affair with me, and she ran off to boink another married man, this one with a bigger bank account.

    • Sorry about what happened to you KB but I love what happened to them afterwards1

  • These cheaters are such assholes. My suspicions were heightened when I cambgome from a business trip and the hot tub room had been cleaned and there was a towel in the sauna. He NEVER cleans the hot tub room and in 25 yrs in that house has NEVER taken a sauna. DDay occurred three days later when I found an empty bottle of boner pills and we hadn’t had that much sex. His classic reaponse was he used them to beat off. I choked with laughter on that one..that was when I was still in shock and could laugh. Neither one of us is laughing now. Papers filed..divorce in Process after 30 yrs. fucker!

  • I have a very strong suspicion that my STBX was bringing people into our home, but I cannot prove it.
    There was a time when I could track his phone, which I would do when he wouldn’t answer texts. I would need a question answered or want him to help me with picking up something on his way home. I would text and get no reply. So I would track his phone and see he was at home. At the time, I attributed him not answering texts or calls to him being on the couch napping and his phone on the counter. It was very common for him to not answer texts or calls from anyone until they texted repeatedly. It bothered me that he came home early many times and helped with nothing around the house. But there was also a part of me that wondered if he was having an affair.

    About a year ago, before we left on a week long vacation I installed a couple of cameras in the house. I did it because I was pretty sure the pet sitter wasn’t coming at the times or as often as she said she was (I was right) and I did not include my husband in this decision. In fac,t I didn’t tell him about the cameras at all because a part of me was hoping I’d catch him doing something. I had the cameras in for a couple of days before my eagle-eyed child noticed and blew their cover. My STBX was furious! He hated those cameras. Complained about them all the time. Accused me of spying on my family (which was not my real intention). I could never understand his reaction. It seemed a bit over the top for a couple of cameras.

    Now I think my gut instinct was right. He probably was bringing women to the house and could no longer do that, so he raged at me. I never caught him cheating on those cameras, but after they were installed his happy hours increased (his drunk rages also increased) and he didn’t come “home” early from work anymore. D-day was six months after they were installed, when I discovered photos on his phone. He slipped up because the tried and true plan he had been using for years was foiled.

  • Anyone who would cheat clearly doesn’t care about niceties like special days, beds, wedding gifts, etc.
    My ex ran a 5k with her AP on our anniversary. I brought the kids over with me to the finish line as a surprise to cheer her on. I got my first hackle-raising suspicions raised when there was another man running with her, too. Actual D-day was about 2 weeks later.

  • “No, the problem is that people like your former SO don’t ascribe meaning to things.”

    This is why it’s so good for CL to re-run posts. I had totally forgotten this important point. And it’s key to chumps because we are so good at projecting our normal human emotions on the cheater. We ascribe meaning to things–the place where we had the first date, vacations spots and memories, the sweater we got for Christmas, the time DD took her first steps, the plans for retirement and grandchildren, the aging dog on the sofa…on and on. So when we wonder WHY and HOW cheaters turn their backs on the wonderful shared life we were building, it seems inexplicable. But it’s readily understandable once you know and understand: They don’t ascribe meaning to things. So they can switch out spouses and partners and kids and pets and houses. They planned-for retirement won’t mean any less if it happens with the new Schmoopie or the one who comes after that. How can they turn their backs on the kids? Because they don’t ascribe meaning to those relationships.

    The most important step for me (aside from no contact) on the road to Meh was grasping that Jackass is disordered in this particular way. He doesn’t ascribe meanings to things, so the discard had no meaning for him either. The problem of projection (of imagining that others are like us, that they share and process beliefs, fears, experiences, and emotions in the same way) makes us vulnerable to these people. It allows their hollowness and lack of human feeling to go unremarked. And it keeps us stuck untangling the skein after they cheat and discard us–or in some cases, after we drag them kicking and screaming out of the home they defiled.

    That’s why I love the “Edgar suit” scene in “Independence Day” so much. There was the old Edgar, who was familiar to his wife, who looked like a regular human. But she saw right after the body snatching that what was inhabiting Edgar was not Edgar. It was an alien in an Edgar suit. We have to learn similar discernment–to be able to see when the person we are dealing with is essentially an alien to human feeling in a human suit.

  • This convo with my former “best friend” occurred before I knew I was a chump, but suspected. Her, her husband, my husband and I were sitting on her back patio partaking in some adult beverages and conversation when I mentioned I needed to get new bed sheets because a small tear in them was growing larger.

    She kept insisting, “I can fix it. Just bring it over and I’ll sew it for you.”
    I said, “That’s ok. Just gonna get new ones. No biggie.”
    She kept repeating that she’d love to sew them for me. “Really. Just bring them over and she’ll pull out the old needle and thread. It won’t take long.”

    I said something along the lines of: “Why are you so obsessed with my bed sheets?” My memory of it is somewhat faded because that was probably about 12-13 years ago, but I like to think I said something about maybe she feels guilty about them being torn, but I don’t think I did.

    But I did go home and took those sheets and ripped that small tear wide open!

    It was probably another year or two before I found the hard proof of what was really going on.

  • There is something else-It is a whole new level of disrespect. To do it in your bed has so many advantages. You don’t know, its naughty fun, it’s forbidden, it’s a HUGE turn on, thrill of getting away with it, and power. Mine does it when I sleep-kids there too.,oh and hey, you deserve it right? A chance to rub your nose in it. His trash loves to leave things behind. A really fun game at your expense. Skeletons in closets and all……

  • Thank you CN for all your posts about them not taking their stuff yet they will use it against you. The POSH moved out with two suitcases, his fishing poles, his bowling balls, and two yeti coolers. He refuses to take any thing else. I purged everything personal of his into a spare closet. He still wont take any of it. The house is up for sale. He has said he wants none of the contents and would rather sell everything. But when I said I wanted to fridge, table and buffet he went off that he wants the fridge. It boogles my mind that he has been gone for 7 months and won’t take any of his clothes, shoes, not even his shaver. I guess it was easier to just start over and buy new things to move into the OWs apartment.

    I also see now that there was a greater reason he refused to take a picture of our wedding to his office. He never had pictures of me on facebook or on his phone. Yes the OW works for him but she only started working there a year ago. We were married 3 years. There may have been others but I really think the truth is that he never attached to me. Even though we were together for 9 years he always kept me at a distance in public. Behind closed doors he was all about me. I was his number one. But for his appearance he wanted to be the tough guy. And he could walk away with minimal impact to himself. Taking down my wedding photo from my office was one of the most gut wrenching for me. He never had to do that. Once he left the house he doesn’t have to be reminded of me in anyway. I however weeved him into EVERY fabric of my life and am slowly having to remove him. (example: email from my favorite restaurant that says “its your spouses birthday. bring him in for a free dinner on us!” that was a knife to the heart”.

  • Another twerky thing Mr. Sparkles does now is take the OW (before) and now, his new GF, to the places we used to visit as a family. Places he had never experienced until he met me and I broadened his world view. Now, he insists on taking my son and stepdaughter to places we used to go along with the new flavor of the day…. showing these other women… “Look, this is where I spent time with ICSTMC while I fucking you behind her back.”… It is stupefying that the women don’t see the insanity of that. But, I guess water does seek its own level.

    • One must admit there is admiration in these bastards. Admiration for us. I’ve noticed this manifesting in so many narcs. They hate me, but they imitate. Low class, low creatures!

  • Not only did ex and Christian Brothers fuck in my house, but they did it when the kids and I were home. We have a three season room tucked away in the back of the house, so they’d wait for other friends to leave and take up a different kind of partying while the kids were sleeping and I was upstairs watching a movie or doing mom stuff. He swears they never fucked in our bed, but I don’t believe him. They would even sneak in quickies on the sofa while we were all asleep upstairs before he’d drive her drunk arse back home, and I can’t bear thinking about what else they did in other parts of the house on the rare occasions they had it to themselves. Funny how no child ever wandered into their grossness despite there being plenty of opportunity to do so.

    One of the first things I did with my mom was go out and finance a new bed, and insist ex take the old one to his love shack so the kids had something to sleep on. Ironically, the daughter whom I haven’t seen but once in fifteen months now sleeps on that bed, as does lo when she sleeps over at her dad’s. I wonder if it ever crosses older daughter’s mind that the reason she’s sleeping on that bed is down the hall playing video games or sneaking in a quiet shag with Christian Brothers, not because I’m an unreasonable parent who just can’t get over what her dad did and play one big happy fucked up family?

      • Kiwichump, thank you. I’m hoping to get back here more often with the kids starting school soon. It’s just been a rough few months and I am not feeling like a CL success story. 🙁

      • Enraged, thank you. I know you’re right; it’s just killing me waiting her out. I think of how close I thought we were, all the jokes and fun we had… And I don’t know how she can keep this up. The ex bought her a purebred puppy, got her two kittens and they have game night every Saturday, but he isn’t treating her eating disorder or her depression so he’s the fun parent and I apparently am not even though I strive to be more a good parent all the time than the fun one all the time.

        At least he gets her at fifteen which, if I remember my own teens, is one of the more particularly difficult ages. I just can’t help of thinking about how much brain washing there must be going on… All his apparently successful efforts to exploit that father/daughter bond and it just makes my stomach turn. How can I gain a life when I’ve now lost two children to him? Well at least my older son still shows he cares and visits fairly regularly. But she was my baby and the double betrayal of his leaving me for someone else and taking my older daughter with him feels like it will never heal.

  • I think Mr Chump Lady makes a really point about auditioning the AP, and that doesn’t take away from all the other thrills Tracy mentions.
    The Traitor and the Whore’s thrill was to have me down on the farm looking after their child while they were cheating. This may have gone on for over 8 years, I’ll never know exactly, but since she was his ex and was always in the picture because they haaad to to get on for the sake of their chiiiiild together, I count it as having always gone on. Also because he admitted that he always loved her, that he knew I wasn’t the right woman before we moved here.
    A really sick thrill for a mother to be fucking my fiance while I am alone with her child….
    When I talk about her to his family I refuse to use her name, I call her the Pervert.

  • ” In my case, my ex brought his OW to a vacation cabin and did the deed in flannel sheets I had bought us. (How do I know? I found her underwear. Classy.)”
    WTF is it about these women and their inability to keep track of their soiled undergarments? I found hobag’s underwear on the floor of my closet. But exhole maintains they never did it in our bed because SHE “had too much respect for me.” Seriously lady, you had no problem sharing a dick with me, but you draw the line at sharing a bed?!

    • Good grief ! The ho shows up at another woman’s house with her hobag in tow and having sex in a marital bed ! Sicko !

    • Chumpintraining, don’t you love the one-liners you get from the SO that the ho’ actually feels terrible about what they are doing? I heard that she was really nice and she felt really bad about want was going on. STBX was boinking slut muffin whore-worker in our travel trailer. Her husband was in their bed and I was in ours, an hour away, very inconvenient! She made sure to leave trinkets though. I loved that my STBX left the bobby pin on the table for me. I’ve only worn them for special occasions and ccertainly not in black, my hair is blonde. The look on his face was priceless. I don’t even wonder anymore what makes them tick. They are fucking needy pathetic garbage who have complete disregard for anyone but themselves.

  • After DDay the Whore still put empty egg boxes in our car when she was doing “handover” with the Traitor, for me to fill with eggs from my chooks, like I used to do before DDay.
    She never got one more egg, I said nothing but crushed the boxes and left them in the car. Never heard a peep from either of them.

  • How about booking a hotel room, on our short getaway, for the two of us, with twin beds!!!
    How is that for a f you?

    I have a few more, but they are too embarrassing to share.

  • I’m convinced, although he denied it, that X wanted to punish me. For having more money than he does. For not letting him spend my money on an endless series of pet projects and “business ventures.” For being more educated than he is. For loving him and accepting him for who he was (thought he was)- a sweet, normal, loving, average guy – instead of convincing him that I believed he was Mr. Success and Mr. Genius. So, screwing the The Tramp in our bed was one of the many passive aggressive ways he disrespected and punished me, allowing him to smirk and act disdainful of me during our last years together. He couldn’t be smarter or more successful than me but he could laugh to hims of that I was sleeping on sheets where he and Tramp had buttf*cked just hours before.

  • They didn’t fuck in my bed, but when I thought no sex had occurred Saddam did something worse. He went from her bed to mine and didn’t clean himself, not going into details as to how I know that (but didn’t realize what was wrong at the time). First sex in years, gave me an STD. Oh, and the marriage counselor told me we could still fix it, WTF is wrong with these therapists. What he did that day still fucks with me, I get flashbacks and wish he had died before he literally fucked me over in such a disgusting and cruel way.

    • I’m so sorry that happened to you. It’s unimaginably cruel what he did to you. And that counselor was a complete asshole.

      Hindsight being what it is, I am certain there were at least a couple of times STBX went from a side-fuck to me without washing as well. I’m sitting here ready to wretch … it’s so fucking disgusting it’s beyond belief.

      I recently had another hindsight thought …
      I ended up having “precancerous cells” burned off when I was around 24 (damaging my cervix, almost causing me to lose our third child a few years later). And I had frequent gynecological infections. I had no idea why I was so susceptible to them. But, at the time, I was oblivious to the serial cheating (or his decision not to use protection while cheating).

      Now that I know that he cheated throughout our 20+ years together, I wonder if he was responsible for at least some of my gynecological problems. Especially because I have not had a single gynecological issue since I stopped having sex with him. There’s no way in hell that’s a coincidence.

      • JesssMom, I’m sorry it happened to you. I had vulvar precancer for years after the first cheating where I believed he didn’t actually go through with it. In hindsight, I know better now. Just another caution to any chump, never forgive, do not reconcile. It’s not worth it.

    • Datdamwuf,
      I’m pretty certain my STBX did that with his Schmoopsie and me. I know for a fact that they did it in our living room after our kids and me had gone to bed. (Which I always find shocking, since it’s not exactly a large house. Just a 3-bedroom townhouse, and any one of us could have gone down at anytime, really.) But looking back to just after D-day #1, and putting the pieces together, I realize now that after she’d left (she was, and still is, our neighbor, and my ex-“best” friend), he’d come up and wake me up in the middle of the night to “take care of business-Round 2.” Mostly I’d say “No, go away,” but occasionally, he’d push until I’d cave in. It gives me the heebie-geebies thinking about it. SO GROSS!!!

      I do have to give some credit to Oprah right now, because she’s actually the reason I started telling him, “No,” to the midnight booty calls. I used to think I had to, even though I hated it (and him) for basically forcing me. The narcissistic pig didn’t take well to me telling him No, and enforcing it, but I felt better.

  • Semiotics. I never thought my school background study of people and their interaction with and valuation of objects would be a topic on an infidelity blog. But its true. To many, we are not even people we are things. That in and of itself showcases our value to them. We are a commodity. To be used. To be used up. So that’s one thing. Then… Their interaction with stuff…. It is also guarded or fleeting. Interesting. Very interesting.

  • He slept with the OW in our bed while I was still in the hospital after giving birth to our second child (6 weeks premature).

    • Justdonejess–that is beyond awful. Spouses who fuck around while they or their wives are pregnant deserve very painful treatment; screwing someone when your spouse is giving birth classifies your X as unredeemable (except as mulch).

      • I cringed reading this. I’m just so sorry you had to endure anything remotely like that. He is a soulless, unforgivable human.

  • The OW had my husband fuck her in her marital bed. What idiots. Her husband was on to them. He owns a surveillance company. Guess who’s been filmed.

  • In all the years he cheated (which I didnt know until much later) I never saw proof that he had sex with someone else in our bed. He told me that the hottie next door strutted around outside in her nightie at exactly as he left for work each morning.

    I think he was careful to not get caught so he would tell me about close-by women that he spurned to make me feel secure in his fidelity…he kept his cheating at arms length away from me. It seemed to work, he got away with it for YEARS.

  • Finding her nasty draws in your bed, then confronting? Burning a left behind shirt? OW’s “calling card”.

    You need to put on your evil genius thinking shades. Forget untangling the skein of why, work with what you have. Staple those lacy undies on a poster that says;
    “OW, You forgot your butt floss! I recommend bleach for those stains!” Plant that it in the yard, see if she is so enamored of leaving stuff behind again.

    Oooooooh! A left behind shirt? Be still(er) my apparently non beating heart…
    “My values went to Disneyland, all I got was this lousy tee shirt!”
    “Got Sperm?”
    “I used another woman’s husband, bed AND toothbrush.”

    Forget the excuses, forget what cheaters motives are. They all suck. I’m sorry that chumps are always treated as fools. They all seem to be proud instead of ashamed of these tricks.

  • And dollar store perfume, jewelry, toiletries. And rearrange shit in the marital bedroom.

  • Thankfully, Cheater McJerkface was basically never alone in our home, so they never had a chance to do anything here.

    However, in the hell months before I uncovered the affair and kicked him out, he had moved to our toddler’s unused bed at night. She coslept with me because of nightmares, he slept in her tiny bed, because he “needed more sleep”.

    After finding the messages, I have reason to believe that sick freak was jacking off and sexting with the whore in our toddler’s bed! W.T.F.

  • Often there’s no ulterior motive or thrill. It’s simply an available place to f*ck. Once you’ve lost your moral compass enough to be f*cking someone else, it’s not that much of a stretch to do it in the marital bed. I wouldn’t read too much into it besides just pure selfishness.

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