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UBT: “I’m Not a Terrible Person”

Dear Chump Lady,

I confronted my husband about his affair just before Christmas. He has been carrying on with a coworker who was also supposed to be my friend WHILE I WAS PREGNANT and continued the affair after I gave birth. I have kicked him out and am in the process of filing for divorce. But his dumbassery continues. Here are some of his best one-liners thus far:

“I stepped outside the boundaries once or twice”
“I am not feeling the things a husband should feel.”
“It’s not “an affair” in that sense of the word.”
“We are just friends. I didn’t tell you I slept over at her house cause that would have made you mad.”
“I’m not a terrible person, despite what you may think.”
“I am scared my body is wrong.”
“I have had periodic feelings of falling out of love and in my darkest moments I went to her for support.”
“I have had a periodic emotional affair”
“Your private investigator is impacting my pysche and making me a hermit”
“You should have the decency to tell me who your private investigator is”

Leah

Dear Leah,

That is quite an assemblage of mindfuckery you have there. Congratulations on being so MIGHTY as to throw him out after giving birth — and then having the anthropological presence of mind to catalog his idiocy. This could be life-saving research. I bet a hundred chumps will raise their hands in solidarity at “I am not a terrible person.”

The UBT is still recovering from the last Esther Perel article, but would like a crack at it. Get the ol’ transponders moving…

“I stepped outside the boundaries once or twice”

Hey, I came close to monogamy. It’s a numbers game and my overall average was pretty good. Are you so unreasonable as to expect a perfect score?

Whatever. It was trifling. One cannot be expected to remember if fucking a co-worker while you were pregnant was a singular occurrence. Could’ve been twice.

“I am not feeling the things a husband should feel.”

Because what matters is FEELINGS not behavior. If you don’t feel like a husband, then you don’t have to act like one.

The UBT is feeling particularly homicidal today, and not its usual perky self. Guess it’s okay to go drown some kittens.

“It’s not “an affair” in that sense of the word.”

It’s a jabberwocky. King’s X! Doesn’t count!

“We are just friends. I didn’t tell you I slept over at her house cause that would have made you mad.”

You’re irrationally angry about my friendships, so I must sleep away and take shelter from your unreasonableness.

The problem is not what I did, it’s how I perceived you might react.

“I’m not a terrible person, despite what you may think.”

I feel that I am a splendidly awesome person! And my feelings make it so! (Not my behavior).

Your thoughts do not factor into my self-regard.

“I am scared my body is wrong.”

I am incontinent.

“I have had periodic feelings of falling out of love and in my darkest moments I went to her for support.”

Who can best understand my fleeting feelings of ennui more than my co-worker who will fuck me?

This is not an affair. It’s a support group of two. Our affliction is you.

“I have had a periodic emotional affair”

There might’ve been a scintilla of a whiff of an iota of fucking around. It was periodic. Nothing to concern yourself with!

“Your private investigator is impacting my pysche and making me a hermit”

I use “impact” as a verb. I should hide myself from polite society as hermits do.

“You should have the decency to tell me who your private investigator is”

How DARE you investigate me! Just because I cheated and harmed you does NOT give you permission to find out about it!

You should have more decency, Madam!

****

Enjoy your new fuckwit-free life, Leah. May the coworker enjoy his “periodic” fidelity.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Hands way up here on the “I’m not a terrible person.” Got that several times early on, when she was briefly trying out all three channels of mindfuckery (before becoming permanently stuck on rage).

    KK has a Greatest Hits album that she played over and over again as I was building and perfecting my gray rock shield. But the one I heard most was:

    “Go ahead and judge me. Just remember to be perfect for the rest of your life.”

    Because … lacking perfection, every human flaw is equal. Loading the dishwasher ‘incorrectly’ is as much cause for anger and destructive rebellion as falsely setting your husband up for charges of domestic assault.

      • ““We are just friends. I didn’t tell you I slept over at her house cause that would have made you mad.”

        I had to laugh at this statement. It sounds like something an eleven year old might say to a friend about a sleepover.

        When I confronted the Limited about the hotel receipt he said, “What if I was just too drunk to drive?” Um…dude you booked the hotel the day before.

        Leah, you did good putting yourself and child first. And congratulations on your new baby!

    • >>”“Go ahead and judge me. Just remember to be perfect for the rest of your life.” Because … lacking perfection, every human flaw is equal.”

      I always felt knee-capped when the jackass serial cheater threw the “Like you’re so fucking perfect” line at me. No. I absolutely was not (and am not) perfect. That is so completely beside the point, though. Not only did I not lie, gaslight, and abuse the jackass — but, I also took accountability quite seriously, so seriously that I even took accountability for the blameshifting crap he threw at me.

      I would dare to bring up his decades of lies and cheating and BAM! — suddenly, I was defending myself from the “you’re too much of a goody too shoes, you are being unfair” routine.

      My mind was in that blender for far too long. Happy happy happy to be away from the perpetual mindfuckery.

        • I always got the, “Oohhh, you’re just a SAINT, aren’t you!” in a sing-songy, snarky voice. So abusive. When abuse is pointed out, the response is more abuse. Fuckers.

          • When abuse is pointed out, the response is more abuse.
            BINGO, Full Card, Jackpot Winner!!!!
            👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

            • I.C.
              Sorry, I failed to put your right on phrase in quotes
              ” When abuse is pointed out, the response is more abuse.”
              Worth repeating.
              Right on!

        • “I apparently do not deserve you.”

          In the past this flipped statement would have made me defend why that was not true and I would spend time building him up. Once I went gray rock for a few months and the fog started to lift, my response became “no, you don’t. You don’t deserve any of this (meaning the family or home, too)”

      • Jesssmom!

        “…but, I also took accountability quite seriously, so seriously that I even took accountability for the blameshifting crap he threw at me.”

        Yes!!

      • Sometimes with the added twist that I was “not mature enough” and “needed to evolve” so that I could understand the very enlightened and mature world of infidelity and gaslighting.

    • I also got to hear the word “perfect” thrown around a lot.
      “I guess everyone expects me to be perfect.”
      No, actually the bar was a lot lower. But I do expect you to be faithful.
      “YOU’RE not perfect, either, Mr. High and Mighty.”
      Yet, I still managed to be faithful, the ACTUAL standard being applied.

      • It’s like they never matured emotionally past junior high.

        To Chumps, it’s so straightforward. You’re either faithful or you’re not. Why the endless word salad and justification overflow? Image. Gotta keep the image.

        Glad you’re free and traveling the world. May everything good and beautiful come your way.

    • I got the “I’m not a terrible person” too, then I got, “why are you trying to crucify me, I didn’t murder anyone”. I didn’t even know how to respond after that statement.

      • What a stupid thing to say. On my D-Day my cheating ex-wife said the same thing. “It’s not like I killed someone”.

          • No, the cheater didn’t literally murder someONE. That would have been easy.

            Cheater did something WORSE. Cheater left his/her victims alive to suffer!

            And yes, cheater DID commit murder. Murder of trust. Murder of fidelity. Murder of integrity. Murder of respect.

            Some years back there was an anti-drunk driving TV campaign. The spokespersons were people who had been in a drunk driving accident and lived to tell the tale. Their faces were scarred. Burned. Teeth knocked out. Major broken bones. They were crippled. Yes, they lived, but…

            The ad campaign was potent, but it didn’t last long enough. People don’t like seeing the truth when it’s visceral and ugly.

            No, the drunk driver didn’t literally commit murder. Would have been easier if he/she had.
            No, the cheating spouse didn’t literally commit murder. No, s/he did something harsher and uglier, something that the chump and kids are going to have to live with for a VERY long time.

      • After extracting and listing facts from a self-serving email he sent me, I got “why do you want to vilify me?” Poor sausage… Knowing what I know today, I’d reply “your actions speak for themselves.”

        But I’m grey rock , no more putting my head in that blender :)!!

      • No you didn’t, it was a different commandment you broke. Well. Actually hang on, now… if you commit adultery and lie about it, is that two commandments or do we roll it into one?

        Gosh I’m not sure. Hey ho, never mind.

    • The more I read of these things they say, the more I realize how pathetically dumb some people are. I must admit that one of the main impediments to my ever considering reconciling with my first wife, who I had really loved and been good to, was the embarrassment I now felt about being with someone so pitifully dumb.

        • They really are stupid and pathetic creatures. Mine would say, sarcastically, actually taunting me, do you think I’m a bastard?? Just say it, I’m a bastard…,

          Me, being the Mega Chump, (cringe) would say, no, not wanting to hurts feelings..
          Foolishly expecting us to have an intelligent discussion this time..

          The answer is an absolute yes, without question.

      • I called Dancing Dick a monster! His response: I’m not a monster!
        Just like Peter Boyle on Mel Brooks’ Young Frankenstein!

        There is no other word to describe someone who intentionally deceives you, lies to you, gas lights you. Monster fits the bill.

    • That, and “You should give me credit!” (that he wouldn’t do it again, while still kept lying about what he’d done)

  • Raising my hand high Leah!! Pretty much verbatim on a lot of the word salad coming out of the mouths of your stbx and my x when I discovered his “dumbassery”. I can tell you a year out from now you will be raising your head high at how you have handled yourself, especially if you do not engage with the shite coming out of the wanker’s mouth. Keep on being MIGHTY!

    • Yep. Same shit, same story.

      Not an original thought in their heads. Every cheater’s affair is different/batter than all the others.

      They should all go piss up a rope.

      • yep the explanation was basically how special their “friendship” was. He actually told me he wished everyday she wasn’t a woman so he didn’t have to keep his once in a lifetime special friend on the side. But they are also just friends and nothing special.

        • I got the same thing from ex: “I can’t help it that my best friend is a woman! If Schmoopie were a man, we could still be best friends and you wouldn’t even care!” Ummm yeah…. Pretty sure I would still be upset because it would just mean that you are fucking another MAN behind my back!

          • Strange, I’ve had a best friend for 40 years–I’ve never felt the urge to fuck her. They are massively confused if they can’t have friends without getting horizontal. It’s the same old smoke and mirrors: I call her a ‘friend’ over here and while you are looking at that, I am fucking her every Tuesday lunch hour. Wizard of Oz level misdirection. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

            • My closest adult friends have been men, flatmates from my late teens and twenties. Never fucked any of them, still friends, and that never threatened their wives because they never got that nasty gut feeling that something is off, because nothing IS off. But the friendships have evolved with all of us ageing: we all put our partners and spouses, then children first, without giving up or damaging the friendships.

        • ^^^^THIS! As of 5:45pm I am divorced! I survived. At the hearing my X said I had ruined his perfectly good friendship by outing him and his ho-worker “friend” for their inappropriate relationship. Thank you CL and CN! It’s OVER. Finally OVER.

    • Yes. Exact same crap, almost verbatim, from my ex. Minus the private investigator stuff, that is — but I suspect that’s simply because I did not hire a private investigator. For all the specialness, they don’t have much in the way of original thoughts, do they?

      • Mine thought I had hired a PI too — because they couldn’t conceive that they were so stupid and inept that I could discover what I discovered, or that I was that good at being Chief Detective of the Marriage Police. After all — they are so brilliant!!! Just ask them!

        Incidentally — I never said I did hire a PI, and I never said I didn’t. I figured if they had secrets I was entitled to a few myself. I really enjoyed the discomfort level they experienced. Poor Sad Sausages!

        • Portia – one of my sweetest moments after the divorce was signed….I told him I knew where he was all the times he cheated. He sounded horrified and asked if I was working for NSA! I said….nope, it’s called ‘Find my iPad” and he borrowed mine. I could hear his forehead hitting the desk and now, he doesn’t know what I knew or didn’t know and I like it that way. He realized he didn’t get away with a damn thing and he thought he was SO clever! bwahah

          • Amazing how all chumps work for government agencies! I found out by a series of coincidences (there are only seven people in the world, it’s all done with mirrors) that the Village Idiot had married again overseas (legal in his country, but uncommon among his people & VERY bad form to do so without the first wife’s consent), without the little formality of getting divorced first or even asking my consent (fun fact: I’d have given it … long strange story, but not quite as bad as it sounds). Now I am rather sweary & can make sailors blush when really annoyed, but what I said at top volume to him & his brother was undoubtedly my finest rant, & included cursing in several languages, some of which they didn’t know. They denied it, of course (turned out they had just told everyone back there that I’d consented, & they were the only two people who knew I hadn’t even been asked — the person who let it slip thought I had agreed).

            But as it happened, I had some entirely different kinds of contacts in his home country, & I made use of them. When I got confirmation, I asked him over to chat (I’d thrown him out to live with his brother, but they were still professing total innocence — “this other family wants us to look bad & tells stories”). I asked if he had anything to say. “I TOLD YOU! I DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER WIFE!” I then recited his second wife’s name, the date of that marriage, the name & date of birth of his first child, the name of his other father-in-law … & he caved. Only for a moment, though. Then it was all false outrage & fury: “What are you, CIA?”

            By then I was laughing too hard to speak, but when I got my breath, I told him that I was, in fact, high up in the CIA.

            He never was quite sure, & the divorce went very, very smoothly.

            We are all secret agents (with superpowers)!

        • Haha, I love that, maybe I’ll make it up that I hired a PI, just to fuck with them. I’ll tell him I wanted some nudie shots so I can check out her young tight 28 year old body!!!! That should ruffle a few feathers. Barf!

    • Me, too. My cheater STILL says “I know you think I’m evil, but I’m not.”
      She’s half right.

  • “You should have the decency to tell me who your private investigator is” – is it bad that this genuinely scared me? Leah has hired a PI for her own protection and Cheat-head wants to know who it is? That smacks of….well, something violent.

  • “We are JUST friends” makes my blood boil. I got pretty much the same list. In addition to “I’m wild. I walked up to the line a few times but I didn’t cross it.” I asked him to define wild. Apparently there’s is no definition of wild. He just kept repeating “wild”. Such an interesting word.

    • i know that one…my ex didn’t use it but I know he saw himself that way, as a wild bada$$ harley riding rebel. I believe “I’m wild” translates to, “I’m above the rules, rules are for boring pions like you, not glorious free spirits like me”

      • My favorite line after the “she’s my best friend”, was “You can’t put my dick in your purse”
        Turns out I’m not the boss of him.
        Turns out I don’t want to be.

        • I got – you’ll never put my balls in your purse like my p@ssy friends. You thought you could slow me down but you never will! I’m too much for you.
          **vomit**

          • Why in the living hell do they get married? They could live a single player life which would create less drama.
            Love the head in the blender, it’s me for one year after.

            • I wonder the same thing. Satan needs gold medals for everything and I think the dry spells between whores when you’re single is really scary lol. He also thinks he will never lose. When I escaped he threatened to kill me if I didn’t just walk with nothing. He also wanted my income. He also wants to be saved and thinks ‘perfect women’ are the answer to his empty black pit… there is no perfect woman so inevitably I fell from grace. As all women will for the rest of his life. In summary He’s dumb.

            • Part of the allure of the affair is the drama that it creates. If you’re single, you can sleep with any other single person but the relationship is about only the two of you. The affair allows you to triangulate, to bond with your AP over the need to deceive; it allows you to create narratives of Forbidden Love, etc.

              Blargh!

              Certainly that was what happened in my case. CheaterX and Schmoopie’s relationship quickly went downhill once I was out of the picture.

          • “you’ll never put my balls in your purse like my p@ssy friends. You thought you could slow me down but you never will! I’m too much for you.”

            WOW!! He said this to his own wife? What a truly reprehensible human being!!

            • he’s a disgusting creature. it’s all in his head. he’s so hyper focused on control that he tells me not to control him when I’m not. this is his answer to me when he would disrespect me. immediately just you can’t control me.

              • My ex had a disgusting vulgar vocabulary with me too after D-day. He was enraged at being exposed. I’d been a submissive, stepford wife up until then and when I stood up for myself he was VILE to me. After he blamed his fucking OW on HER, I simply said, “so what? did she hold a gun to your head?” and he screamed at the top of his lungs: “No, it was like that! it’s not like she wagged her pussy in my face and stuck her big tits in my face!” (she is flatchested, I discovered later). But in his emails I later found he spoke to OW in junior high level sweet talk, “you are a warm and wonderful woman. Thank you for letting me into your world.” But in reality he is a vile, pig.

          • Then wife said: “you don’t own my vagina.” Yeah, well I thought the terms of our marriage could be likened to a long-term lease at least – or some such. Bitch.

            • Wow!! Never in my life would I say that to my husband!

              To have and to hold til death do us part… just not my vag… that’s for everyone.

          • Natalie, I heard similar comments from X, “you’re not going to make me jump through hoops,” which in translation means, you’re not going to tell me what to do.
            That was his response to my questions or asking him to do something insignificant such as take out the trash.

            X would make fun of husbands who would do what their wives asked. If someone mentioned their wedding anniversary or they were getting married X would ridicule the couple and marriage. X would say turned him against marriage, that if we were to ever get divorced he would stay single and never marry. Knowing what I know now, I believe that was said to divert any suspicions I might have and to give me a false sense of security. A safety net for X.

            Being married to me must not have been so bad as he is remarried.
            I hope he finds his new marriage to be his worst nightmare.

          • Geeez Chumps, you answered a question that’s been bugging me.
            So THAT is what that extra compartment is for in my new purse, for dicks and balls.
            Hard day today and you made me smile!
            Thank you!!
            Rock on CN.
            You are Mighty!

            • Peacekeeper, I am sorry you had a hard day. Let me give you a (((hug))). You are always such a positive, supportive voice on CN. I hope tomorrow is a better day.

              • jumper,
                You are so kind,
                your hug really worked,
                Thank you and I send hugs right back to you.
                Xxxxxx
                peacekeeper

        • and yes exactly! we wanted a partner. not a naughty teenager. I’m not his mommy. please accept my resignation lol.

          • Exactly. My XW said, “Looks like you just want me to have NO male friends.”

            I was still chump enough then to be distracted be this. I tried to have a calm conversation with her about how she CAN have male friends; that I just have the right to meet them and get to know them, as her husband.

            And from her side, problem solved!! My curiousity and prying were squelched for another couple of weeks…even if she never intended for me to meet her OM.

            It’s all the same playbook on their part: distract, delay, denounce.

            • They are so messed up. I never tried to control who my STBXW was friends with. She works in a male dominated field. The point wasn’t that she couldn’t have male friends, the point was that the AP wasn’t a friend. He wanted more, she wanted more and that is what it became. The point is that she broke trust with me and her kids. I have female friends and I didn’t cross boundaries.

              ASSHATS!!!

              • This.

                I worked around a lot of men. I’ve never thought about cheating. Back when I was dating CheaterX, a neighbor was interested in me. CheaterX lived in another state. The neighbor asked if we had an exclusive relationship. I said yes and the neighbor never raised the issue again.

                We still had the occasional beer together, though.

          • Naughty teenager about sums it up. I feel like he’s playing out his keeping secrets from Mummy about wagging school and drinking issues with me. Mummies so mean and expects things from me, stamp feet! Fucking over these idiots.

        • I got the best friend line as well. He even introduced her to our 3 year old as that. It turns out that this friendship was not so strong after all. DS came home one day and said ex and OW had a fight and they are not best friends anymore.

          • They are SO pathetically identical. Yeah – she was a friend… I was his best friend. I told him he wasn’t MINE, because even a shitty friend wouldn’t do what he had done. PregnantChump – of COURSE it wasn’t that strong. No fun without the triangle. Kibbles become boring old meals then.
            Mine not only introduced his to our kids – skanky MOW came on to our teenage son. And fuckwit was trying to arrange for our DD15 to WORK WITH skank for the summer just days before DDay. Feathering that nest? They have unmitigated gall and epic stupidity – what a charming combo!
            It IS good to find the humor in the horrors. But they are still marital crimes, a horror show, the ultimate nightmare. We are SO MIGHTY my chump friends. Thanks CL1 And I love you ALL, CN!

            • What is the deal with them saying they you are their best friend???? It is so creepy!!! And also saying they are adults. Who goes around talking about how adult they are??? I wonder if they were always this creepy and i just missed it. How could i have missed it????

              • seriously! what is this shit? constantly told me I’m a child and an immature non-wife. whats a non-wife? Constantly told me he’s an adult grown ass man.
                Like a toddler saying – I’m not a baby I’m a big boy.

              • Same, said those same things often too. I always thought it was weird then thought maybe it was just me thinking it was weird that X would feel he had to say, you’re my best friend, I’m an adult, and a man of integrity.. which makes me burst out laughing today. Integrity and X are at two ends of the spectrum.

                Whatringhellisthis, you’re right, it’s like a child telling you, “I’m a big kid now.”

              • I know this as well!! I asked myself this 1000x the week that he was moving out. How did I not see this! How did I live with someone for 5 years and not realize they are like a child who needs to be told on how to live life with integrity. What was creepy and finally ended all emotions was when I caught him in one more lie. He didn’t even flinch.

        • Hmm. I don’t think your cheater knows about Lorena Bobbit, who demonstrated that she could, in fact, but a dick in her purse. I’m not advocating for her approach, but perhaps, given her example, he should rethink his choice of phrases.

        • Sometimes I feel like the STBX’s behavior is one long drawn out temper tantrum. You are not the boss of me. You can’t tell me what to do.

          • Has it lasted a full year? My stbx is acting like a 3 yr old potty mouth holding on to a blanket screaming- you didn’t believe my lies-you must be crazy! While blaming me for everything- while running around with AP. Then posting all the crazy makin all over facebook and sending it to me in messages. His behavior has been so absured, I haven’t found a sane person anywhere that wants near him. Still looking for the peace.

            • Bad news – I believed my x was having a mid life crisis. Lasted for 10 years.

              He came out the other side, but not as somebody I ever knew.

              The point is – there is no sight in end. RUN

      • I think you’re correct Ever_the_empath. He thinks he’s above the law and gets aroused when he gets away with crimes. Extra bonus when his followers don’t expose him… especially me. Weak people follow the rules. He “plays with fire” and he can’t sit still. He’s so badass that he cheats on his wife and calls it ‘wild’. So provocative! The thrill he gets by “his word against mine” in a position of authority is disgusting.

      • Hahahaha! Yes, so true. I got, “I am passionate!” as well when I first met X…turns out passionate, like “wild” is just a cover word for I am prone to rage when I don’t get my way because I am so wild (otherwise known as “above any rules meant for all you lesser people”.)
        I am so happy that I am starting to find the humor (albeit bitter humor) in their ridiculousness.

        • Nejla ☝️all of this. agree passionate/wild same thing. sorry you had a freak too. “You light my fire… i play with fire… lots of fire! We are now finding the pathetic humor in it because it’s so f’ed up and we finally have the decoder ring!

            • CanadianDad – I like your translation! Fucking idiots, indeed.
              To misquote The Beatles:
              All the f’d up cheates/
              Where DO they all come from?/
              All the f’d up people/
              Where do they all belong?
              (W each other, please!)

      • Aha ha ha my ex used to say he was different to most people likening himself to a lone wolf that didn’t travel in packs. 🙄

    • Doughboy said “they had a special bond” so I refer to them as Doughboy and Bondo. Ha, what a joke! He also denied sleeping with her ” I’m not sleeping with “Bondo”and she’s not sleeping with me” ??? He actually sent this out to his bridge friends after I outed them in an email. I mean not that I’m condoning affairs of any kind, but if your hell bent on blowing up your entire life, for some sex fantasy, wouldn’t you think you might want to give it s go, first? What if it’s just horrible sex! These EA freaks don’t even know how to have an affair. not that I believe he wasn’t fucking her, but then again he is crazy! Glad to be out of that circus!

      • Lyndyloo – I agree COMPLETELY. EA my ASS. Here’s your emotional divorce – suck on that, fuckwit.
        My only response was,”I hope she was worth it.”
        Worth tanking a 30 year marriage. Worth destroying trust. Worth losing your kids’ respect. Worth losing your “normal family guy” beard/mask. Worth child support, alimony and losing your home. If he didn’t tap that “everybody’s skank” ass, it was his own poor call. Back to Rosy Palm for all your fantasy needs, douchebag.

        • My ex actually came whining later, saying ‘none of this was worth it, I wish I could go back and change what I did’ (note the STILL not owning or stating ‘what he did’).

          Funny, I knew it wasn’t worth it, as first affair was beginning (I actually thought he realized that, while reconciling, chumpy me!) as well as second. Why did it take him so long to figure out?

          I finally realized that it didn’t matter whether he was evil or just stupid. Not good enough for me, either way.

          • Karen,
            Interesting your X didn’t figure that out the first time but had to give it another try? Same with Doughboy, after first so called EA,he admitted to me that he couldn’t believe how stupid he was, thinking he was in love with OW#1. Of course I spackled and went on with the charade for 20 more years.
            It’s just a matter of time before Bondo tires of him and when the money’s gone she’ll kick his ass out. It’s not rocket science he’s 68 years old, wants to be 40 again, she’s a Drama Queen with huge family issues and no money! Sounds like a great start to a relationship, right? These guys just don’t get it they are obtuse!
            Having said all this, I really don’t give a rat’s ass about him, having a good time with my new life!

          • “I finally realized that it didn’t matter whether he was evil or just stupid. Not good enough for me, either way.”

            Yes! I don’t always recognize my STBX in the rhetoric on here about narcs and cluster B’s, but I’ve realized it doesn’t matter. The main thing I’ve realized is that his arc always leans against me, that he will always tend toward treating me as poorly as I allow him to, even if there are moments when he treats me very well. And it doesn’t matter if it’s deliberate, carefully calculated manipulation or him just being emotionally stunted. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life pushing back against him.

    • I heard “free spirit,” like they were sitting in a field picking flowers and listening to sitar music and not screwing in $40 an hour hotels.

    • AP kept saying she was wild too. I think it means I do whatever I want with no regard for the consequences, and I don’t care who I hurt. I think the idea came from Pinterest. It’s very childish to have that mindset.

  • I love the “It’s not an affair; it’s a support group for two.” We are really exclusive. Like those secret dance clubs that you need a decorative key to get past the bouncers. And our hugs are really…vigorous.

    • BEST laugh of the morning – and I’ve been watching Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee, so the competition was stiff! LAUGHED OUT LOUD!
      The whole “emotional affair” smokescreen was Boss Hogg’s top 10 hit. “She’s like a sister to me.” You know, a sister for whom I buy thongs and she sends me selfies of them. A sister I bought a jackrabbit vibrator for (special Christmas present – nothing says “happy birthday, Jesus” like a high-priced sex toy). Sisterly love. Mmmmm. Makes me feel all warm & fuzzy.
      They have NO originality.
      Clearly I chose wrong. Glad for a chance for a do-over. Fuckwit-free!
      You all are hilarious! Thank you for the laughs – much needed!

  • I remember from another great support sight somebody saying ” if their lips are moving – they are lying “.

    It is amazing that their brains seem to disconnect reality from their perceived reality.

    I stomp on kittens, but I gave $20 to the Salvation Army kettle at Christmas = I am a swell guy.

    Love your cartoon Tracy !!!

    • I LOVE this cartoon!!

      It is perfect to share with one of my adult children who, on the rare occasions he sees his father, gets confused by statements such as “you don’t know the whole story”. Yeah, I’d like to know that whole story too 🤣…

      You managed to draw into a cartoon the true definition of mind-fuckery, gaslighting, lying, manipulation and everything else that can come out of a cheater’s mouth.

      • Rebecca, my ex keeps saying the same thing to the kids. “you don’t know the whole story”, but when they ask what is the story, she says “that’s not something I am going to tell you”.

        • By saying crap like that they are trying to introduce a bit of doubt about the situation. They, of course, don’t really want to explain, because of course it would just expose that they really are shitty. By throwing it out there though, they want to suggest that there really was an excellent reason to fuck up the family that was created over decades.

          • Mine had reasons he couldn’t tell me about because it would hurt my feelings. WTF? DDays and abandonment was easier on my feelings? He also loves to be very cryptic. He would say “you know what you did.” No not so much. He’s a big ridiculous bald baby man.

            • Oh yes, I got told I needed to see my part in it. Like what? No real answers and of course my asking for reasons just means I am Controlling and Judgmental. Examples pleaded for (because Chumpy me can FIX IT while I dance the pick-me two step) but examples provided were so stoopid and unreal that they were clearly just lies. It is so important for him to insist that this is all my fault but the reasons provided don’t compute. And in the end it was all just so he could escape to his Schmoopie who is our daughter’s age. He would say anything while the divining rod that his dick had become pointed relentlessly outside the marriage, to someone else, anyone else, away from being 50 years old and away from his boring life.

          • Exactly! Our four teenagers are so very frustrated with SirLiesALot’s constant stonewalling them. We are three YEARS out, and he just expects them to be so happy for him that he is “happy and thriving.” He so does not get that, if he can be happy and thrive without seeing his kids that he “loves so much,” what are they supposed to think about that?! And with regard to not being willing to discuss with them how and why he blew up the family, well duh, he apparently discussed it with everybody else when he was slandering me to friends, family and the Mate-Poacher, who pretended to be my friend. How is it okay to discuss it with everyone BUT the five people it would impact the most?! Cheater just doesn’t get why the kids won’t just accept everything and respect him and treat him as the “same great dad” he’s always been to them…except for all the lying and deception with other women over the course of half their lives. Dick!

            • Oh, and Fuckwit keeps telling our kids that he won’t discuss it because he’s “taken responsibility” for his affairs. When they ask him HOW he’s taken responsibility…crickets. He has not seen any of our kids and three years, made no efforts to visit them (800 mile trip), and just does the occasional, superficial “hi” and “I love you,” and “I’m your biggest fan!” texts that drive them all crazy. When his affairs were discovered, he abandoned his faithful wife, blamed all his affairs on me, filed for divorce, made sure the rest of the family shunned our kids for not accepting his affair partner, and left me with all of our joint debt, forced a sale of our kids’ home that they were devastated to lose, and intentionally blocked me for a full year when I tried to get an enforceable child support order. He’s taken responsibility, my ass!

              I feel so stuck in a negative thought loop that is just crushing me today, sorry for the rant, CN. :/

              • I can’t take credit for that one, NoMore, saw someone use it when I first found CL last year and co-opted it cuz it fit so well 😉

                And thanks, FindingBliss. There was no reply button directly under your comment so I will say here that I so appreciate your encouraging words…really needed them today. I am a long way from finding my mighty, but you all inspire me so to keep looking!

        • Kris, they say these thing like “you don’t know the whole story” and they can’t reply when asked what the story is, because they don’t know. They just do this shit without any thought to why. Shortly after I kicked Doughboy out I asked him to explain what happened that he could walk away after 40 good years, without so much as a look back? He started to reply ( I could see his email) something about looking at his own mortality and that was it. Never finished the sentence after several days he deleted it. Then he sent some tripe about “your mother and I had no common ground” to adult kids. Wished them well and told them to take care of me. They were horrified and have disowned him. No mention of any reason for the affair, no apology, nothing just me me me. So this is just like CL says you can’t figure out their skein of fuckupedness. They don’t know why they destroy their lives and they don’t give a damn about the collateral damage to kids, grandkids, friends, extended family. It’s just about them and it always will be!

          • The “you don’t know the whole story”and the blaming us for the “things” we did without specific, real crimes identified are simply ways to keep the goalposts on wheels. If we figured out anything or had specifics to work with then it might actually require that they address the true problems and not have a way to flee the jail cells they claim their marriages have become. Leaving big mysterious chunks omitted and ambiguous always allows them to act like their burden is so, so great. They have suffered for soooo long and deserve happiness. Because reasons.

          • That mortality line reminds me of when my Dad told me not to call him anymore, because he was “too busy growing old in America.” He didn’t even tell me this over the phone, this was in an *email.* At the time, I was a single mom with three small kids, working full time and going to school full time. The loss of my Dad (we never spoke on the phone again, it’s been seven years and my number is the same) was devastating.

        • Oh, yes. The “there are two sides to every story” BS. HE got to sad sausage his tale of what a frigid bitch I was to God only knows how many people, but he wants to control whatever I have to say to anybody. Because, you know, it will completely contradict his “frigid bitch” narrative. He told people I never tried to lose the weight I gained when pregnant, while I have photographic evidence which proves him absolutely wrong. We had sex 2-3 times per week, which is pretty darned good for people in their 50s.
          HIS side of the story is that he made a decision to cheat, pure and simple.

          • The “there are two sides to every story” BS. and We had sex 2-3 times per week, which is pretty darned good for people in their 50s.
            HIS side of the story is that he made a decision to cheat, pure and simple.

            My cheater fuckwit to a tee.

            I have a new theory, his attachment to his iPad altered his fragile brain.

        • My future life. I’m preparing- especially since I have a daughter. Cheater wife does NOT want her to know what she did.

        • Mine tells everyone that “there are two sides to every story” including his kids (by text). He has not sat down with kids in over 2 years to ever tell them his story. It is just a way to create the impression that he had a reason to cheat.

          That’s okay…I tell the basic facts of what he did without any details and that’s plenty. There is no other side of the story to justify treating your wife and kids that way. And anyone who wants to give him the benefit of the doubt or overlook it is not someone I want in my life anyway.

      • “you don’t know the whole story” = loyal spouse is so mean / sexless / controlling / insert excuse here that I *had* to cheat. Just a little something to keep ME going as I martyr myself to this horrid marriage and these terrible demanding kids. See, I am the REAL victim. I’m sacrificing for the greater good of the family. Really, I am the HERO in this story. I’m putting EVERYBODY ELSE’S happiness over mine.

  • Twatty VanDick actually like to say, “Right, I’m a terrible person.” I used to tell her she wasn’t. Now I just say, “if you say so, who am I to diaagree?”

    • Oh, I’ve heard this before. After I got to Not Giving a Fuck anymore, I’d just give him the look, the one with the raised eyebrow. The one that has kids squirming because they know Mom isn’t falling for the BS. Then he’d get pissed and say, “I don’t need you to ……” fill in the blank – nag, bitch at him, control him, tell him what to do, etc. And then storm out.

  • I never got the “I’m not a terrible person” probably because I was so f@&k*ng nice, I didn’t tell him that he was but I did tell him you are not the person I know. His response was I am still the same person more than you know- I guffawed that at the time, now I see it was way more telling than I ever imagined.

    The other quandary I found myself in was defending myself. When I received his hate journal in which he referred to me as an evil bitch several times, I confronted him and tried to get him to retract these statements and acknowledge that was not the case. I got a blank stare in return. He is a monster.

    Leah, he is a terrible person. Don’t let him fool you again.

  • Hand up with a slight change in semantics “I am NOT a monster!”🙄 And similarly, “I might’ve crossed a few lines, but not THAT one!” His huffy snort following each declaration of idiocy. The unbelievable mindfuckery. It makes me mad all over again🤬 Another one I got, “I didn’t really DO anything.” WtfH? So I guess he’s just gaslighting the fuck out of me to cover up for all the things he didn’t really DO? Wtf ? I think I could muster no words in response as it was beyond my grasp at that time. My anger didn’t take hold soon enough, so you’re way mighty Leah! Hang onto that anger and don’t let him suck you back in with that blathering nonsense.

    • Sneaking around behind your back is doing something.

      Telling lies is doing something.

      Deliberately refusing to either attempt to communicate with your partner or accept that you don’t feel committed anymore and act to leave the relationship is doing something.

      Even if the rest of that BS is true, it seems like that person did quite a lot, actually.

  • Thank you for this site.

    Yes, I’ve heard this one used as an attack…”but you’re trying to make me out to be a terrible person. I’m not a terrible person”…

    It was my problem.

    • It’s unbelievable how cheaters think their good people.
      They are evil, selfish creatures who think nothing of destroying us & our family just for “feelings” for a whore.

      (CL.. no offense but when you use the term “ drowning kittens” it upsets some of us.)

    • It’s a false equivalency. If they twist what you say into something judge, then they can deem you judgmental and make you the problem.

      I told my ex “it’s not for me to decide what kind of person you are in general. It is for me to decide what kind of partner you are to me. The way you have treated me is terrible, so you are a terrible partner to me.” He was fairly easy to shut down, so this sort of thing worked well to back him off some dramatic rant.

  • Mine was completely mentally deranged. Hiding his OW while laundry listing all my faults, up to can including abuse of him. (really?) As he was insisting that I sign over the house, because he could afford it, for free plus other montsering tactics, he would put his hand on his chest and say. “Because I’m just a nice guy!”
    I actually think he really believes it.

    Never mind abandoning those pesky children and stealing and stuff. We all should be doormats because he deserves to behave as he sees fit.

      • Remembered another. After 30 years of me working full time, providing all medical, dental, food, clothing, house wares and child rearing/daycare costs for the entire family, XH had the audacity to write in his divorce deposition that I had NOT contributed “to the family” for 30 years.

        This from a man who never even drove himself to his kids sporting event. Never paid a babysitter, ever.

        The audacity. I actually think the putz believes it.

        • Good that everything you’re speaking of comes with receipts ;). Well except the other many loving chores of cooking, laundry, home repair, giving daily voice lessons to a VERY special pet, a side-job as PI, landscapingvwith a lavender garden.
          I don’t know what I like better about your story which really should be told at Moth like UXWorld said)… is it best that that you were such a successful detective as you found the cheater, OW and Tango? Or is it even better that you had so much chutzpah so fast?
          I love your story today too…you’d think one would notice that every freaking thing in his life just appears to be magically financed and maintained. You rock oh mighty one!

        • I got that I worked ‘sporadically’ umm yeah pretty much worked from when my first child was 9 months old and worked full time despite my eldest having chronic and I mean chronic exzcema, he was in child care. What was I thinking while he puffed around in his barely full time low paid job! I was a fucking zombie but wanted something more than extreme poverty for my kids. Fucker what am I supposed to drop a baby and work oh and forget those pesky school holidays just lock them kids in the cupboard and go to work, we had no family support either as we lived interstate. I was fucking mighty then and am finding it again now. Fuck him .

        • I gave up a good deal of pay to move across country so that X could have a better job. I then took care of 90%+ of the parenting, plus 70% of all household chores so that X could become more successful in his field.

          But when he had to acquiesce to our state’s community property laws at divorce, he said to my DD1, “Your mother took half MY money.” At first I was angry that was how he characterized the settlement, but then I got happy–if he thinks he gave up HIS money, it must have hurt more ; ).

          • My STBXW made more money during our marriage than I did. She has a very good paying career, and I always supported her in this. I was fully employed for all of our marriage, and contributed with a more than average wage. I happily took a year off of work to stay at home with our youngest child as well. The separation of assets was very difficult for her. I think it was very hard for her to have to give up any of “her money”. She would make comments about how she might have to go live in a box. I suppose that was supposed to make me feel bad, but the argument just didn’t stand up to any real examination. It’s sad though that after all the years, the money seemed more important than the loss of a partner and family.

            • It always comes back to the money! That’s why you have to lawyer up ASAP and get what’s rightfully yours before the guilt wears off. That is, if they have any guilt. I always made more money than Doughboy mainly because he had no ambition. He had a university degree but never put it to good use. He was too busy fucking around at work in a cushy job and when he wasn’ at work he was playing with his hobbies and chatting up all the ladies! God I was blind. Fortunately, I did well with my high school education and became an AGM for one of Canada’s largest bank, who now provide me with a decent pension that enables me to live a comfortable life! Yahoo!

            • This, Canadian Dad! Spot on! My Fuckwit is so very upset because, now that we are three years out from him abandoning me, and the divorce settlement decision is looming, he is realizing that he actually owes me a LOT, since he refused to pay on any marital debt, the house stuff, etc. He is absolutely livid over this perceived injustice, and just keeps saying, “I’m not a wealthy man…, blah blah blah.” The finances are definitely what they care about most. Cheaters are definitely self-deludingly talented!

            • Yup,things are more important to narcs than relationships. Things like money,stamp collections, paintings, jewelry…Going through the joint possessions with a fine toothed comb to compile a multi page list of “what I deserve in the settlement” for the attorneys takes precedence. Funny how he never took any of the photos of the kids growing up and didn’t ask to make copies for himself but wanted the engagement diamond back. Imagine that !

              • Material things, shinny objects, possessions are more important to cheater types than the real diamonds, the real jewels, the precious Children.
                I got me those, my two gems of a daughter, even though cheater stayed, he was never there for them. They don’t know of his affair, but they know, they have lived with, his character traits. They love him because he is their Dad, but that loving, trusting, bonding thing, that is what they share with me, their Mother, the present, sane, loving parent!
                Sucker Punched By a Saffa, you got the real diamonds, the genuine treasures, your Children!
                I have read your posts!
                YOU are Mighty!

            • I was just commenting the other day that as soon as I filed for divorce from cheater wife she went from begging me not to divorce her to caring only about the money. It was like a mask had come off.

              • Yes, the mask falls off uber-fast when they realize you see right through them, and it is SO not pretty then.

  • Mine tells me that I always have “held grudges” as if blowing up our family and leaving me and our son for a married whore is just some minor indiscretion, like he dinged my car with his shopping cart and I just won’t get over it! It was windy! The ground was angled and it just rolled away from him! He had to let go, there was a poisonous spider on the handle! Anyway it’s just a ding, get over it! Never mind what he actually did was take me for a ride in the car, open the door, put it in neutral and pushed it down a cliff with me inside. Yeah, I hold grudges. Asshole.

        • Holy Moly–I’ve heard of sinister stories on this site, but that one ranks right up there with Tess’s sadness. Would you mind expanding on your tale, if it’s not too hard for you?

          We all need to remember that sometimes the laughable crap they feed us is bordered by the criminal.

          If not, I fully understand.

          Thanks,

      • @hollowbunny: Laughed so hard I scared the dogs! Thank you for the laugh in what has been a really shitty week.

    • Yup, “holding grudges” here too . . . coupled with proclamations of her “I get over things quickly and move on!” superpower. (I call it the ‘Rage/Lovebombing Cycle of Mindfuck,” but whatever.)

      • They “get over things quickly and move on” because all of their feelings are extremely shallow. The can go off to the next thing quickly without batting an eye because they were never heavily infested in us in the first place.

        • Yes. My STBX’s feelings are only on the surface. He reacts to things in the moment and counts those as his feelings. Doesn’t go any deeper than that. Normal human beings form attachments. They would not want to move with OW into the home he shared with his wife and kids for 20 years after we move out. He wouldn’t start the exact same traditions with OW that he had with us. He wouldn’t leave behind all 3 of the pets and then go out and immediately buy a new dog. He would want to take at least one of the with him when he left. Etc…..

          Those things would remind a normal feeling human being of what they lost and it would hurt. Not them. Anyone and everything is simply replaceable.

        • The funny thing about this is that when I was trying to figure out what was going on with our marriage, and was upset about her behaviour, I was “bullying her” about what she called a glitch in her otherwise excellent record as a wife. The thing is, she could not let things go. She would throw things that happened more than twenty years ago in my face.

          Also, I’m not sure, but I tend of a glitch being a small problem. I suppose a cheater might want to call their affair a glitch if they wanted their spouse to pretend it didn’t happen, but would you call it a glitch if you are now deciding that a thirty-year relationship now has to end?

      • Divorce counseling – first session:

        Shrink to me: “Why are you here?”
        Me: “I just found out my husband has been having an affair with a gradwhore behind my back for over a year. We share a kiddo, I’m here to find a way to make custody work for the next decade.”

        Shrink to then-husband: Why are you here?”
        X: “I’m here to help chumptitude get over her trust issues.”

        I HEART custody software.

    • All the same these cheater. I hold grudges and when he doesn’t like my critec of him I’m ‘just like my dad’ who he hates, yeah whatever, hang up

    • I was called “unforgiving,” and thus inferior to Hannibal Lecher who “could forgive anything in people he loves.” [scratches head] And yet, my perceived deficiencies (which he could not forgive at the time) were supposedly what drove him into the crotch of gradwhore repeatedly.

      Hannibal also had a literary bent, and encouraged me to forgive his infidelity by just ‘deciding’ to do so, the way that Dolly does in Anna Karenina. smh

    • I’ve been told I “burn bridges”, “too prideful” and “too full of drama”. I’m glad I burnt those bridges, no regrets because it was a matter of pride to not be part of the cheater pants triangle. 😃

  • “I’m a Nice Guy!!”, as told to a 3rd party after stating his entitlement to having ‘caveats’ in a marriage.

    This was the lead up to the long and short list of how I failed to meet his ‘NEEDS!!!!!’.

  • I am a good person. We are good people. What we are doing doesn’t make us bad people. We help people every day in our field and improve lives so we are good people. We help people more than most. This is what I read in the awesome correspondence I found, from her, to her etc. They were definitely in agreement about their own awesomeness. Funny, when I was in the court8ng stage of any relationship I don’t remember those words ever being said. Or thought. Or pertinent. We never discussed it in so many years of marriage either. When I’m love I tell my partner why I love him, not why he should love me.

    Oddly, when he was confessing and didn’t know what I had read, he told me that she talked a lot (that’s a relative term because his dick was usually in her mouth) about what a good person she was. In these hotel rooms away from spouses and children. He thought that was weird, which makes sense since the topic at hand/mouth should have only been him and his awesomeness or shut it already or use the mouth only for blow jobs. All her talk about her goodness ended up being a turnoff and her self serving selfishness selfie self self was why he ultimately ended it. Which was, he said, proof that he was good!

      • Good people never go around proclaiming their own goodness. They don’t have to. Other people recognize and acknowledge it.

          • Like that scene in Game of Thrones where Tywin Lannister tells Joffrey that if you’re a real king you don’t have to remind everyone. They work hard to try to justify bad behavior. Nope. Bad behavior? Bad people. Poor character reveals itself like that.

  • After DD#1 – You’re not such a good wife you know… why?…. because you buy mature cheddar and I like mild cheddar, you don’t care what I like (so I’m justified in having an affair). So spackle spackle I start buy mature AND mild cheddar…. he eats all the mature cheddar first.

    You don’t care what I think… why? Because all our furniture is antique pine and I don’t like pine. But you help me pick it all up for years, in fact you chose that big dresser in the kitchen…. yes I know but I only did that because I thought you would like it (btw – it’s OK but not a must have item). What style of wood would you like then… dunno!!

    It’s all bollox that they spew – just trust that! They will justify an affair with a load of made-up nonsense they thought of at that time. It means nothing.

    After DD#2
    Bye… once financial separation agreed and signed in front of lawyer strict NC.

    • My ex complained to his mother about how I fold towels!!! (You know, in a way that they can fit in the closet.) Cried to her that I asked that he remove his shoes before going upstairs to my bedroom…after he had already moved out.

      I love the blender cartoon. I am still looking for the off button. As far as his “excuses” for the affair? Have received absolutely NONE as he has never told me.

      • If any of my kids start complaining to me about their spouses (not married yet, hopefully not for a little while), I will shut that shit down. That is something they need to discuss with their partners, or suck it up. Folding towels! WTF!! If you have a problem with how your wife folds towels, you need to give your head a shake.

        1. Somebody folded them, and you didn’t have to dickhead!
        2. Say thank you and don’t criticize!
        3. If for some reason you don’t like how the towels are folded – fold em’ yourself!!
        4. You are a grown man, don’t friggin whine to your mamma about stupid shit!!

        In my entire married life the number of times I complained to my mom about my wife – 0
        Even now, still 0. That shit is between her and me.

        That is not on!!

        • Hurray for Canadian Dad!….good advice.
          My son is getting married this fall. Your advice is sound. Thank you!

    • chump chump etc.

      One thing I have noticed is when I go the fridge for some cheese there, is some actually there. Doughboy was the same complaining about some food I bought that he didn’t like and then proceed to eat the whole bloody thing. He had real food issues had to have the biggest piece of pie always first at the buffet, no hesitation. More than once I had to quietly mention he might want to leave some of the hors d’oeuvres for the other guests. Of course he’d be terribly offended! Ugh!

      • Besides the Cold Dead Stare after D-Day, the reason Cold Slab O’Mea got his name from his habit of eating entire heaping plates of bacon. Like, a whole packet of bacon in one sitting. And the rest of breakfast too. His cholesterol readings were staggering.

        • That cold dead stare freaked me out. It still freaks me out. I don’t know how anyone gets to that point. I have done plenty of things i’m not exactly proud of but i never went into cold dead stare mode. Seriously what is that about???

          • That cold dead stare is a window into their empty souls, Leavealyingloser.
            It is the ONE TRUE sign of who they TRULY are. The mask has slipped – they are NOT like everyone else and certainly NOT the people we thought they were.

            I think the cold dead stare is their “resting bitch face.”

            • That cold dead stare was heartbreaking and terrifying at the same time. There were times when I felt like he was observing me. Like a bug on the sidewalk. He was good at seeming to be so warm and loving before. I guess 30 years of my imperfection just wore the a poor guy down.

      • My fuckwit hated tequila, that was my drink. He proceeded to choke it down though just to spite me. He was always cleaning out the liquor cabinet like that, had to “clean this up” as he made sure to gobble every drop of anything I preferred and he was more meh about. Piggy little passive aggressive boy.

        Also, I could never have leftover restaurant food in the fridge without coming back to find huge amounts missing. If it was mine he thought he could just help himself, and would stand at the fridge picking through styrofoam containers with his fingers. Jeebus, I will NOT miss the constant picking at food! Picking at the common serving platter instead of taking a serving, picking food from the just-opened can of whatever before it went into the pot, picking the chicken skin 100% off the bird for himself while carving. licking popcorn directly from the big shared bowl instead of taking some. Such a goddam baby.

        • Oh, I forgot one— when going to a “light eats” kind of buffet party where the plates were just 6” (a clear indication that this is not a meal), fuckwit proceeded to pile that little disk so high it was taller than wide. Then he went back again, and again, and again and do the same. After the third trip I gave him the stink eye about it because I was getting a real sense that it was being noticed. He had a tantrum and we had to leave.

          He was being so rude to eat like he was at the freaking Kountry Kitchen Buffet when it was supposed to be a higher class little wine tasting with friends. Of course he will remember it as me being a horrid nagging bitch. So embarrassing.

      • Yep, this too. The biggest piece, the first in line, the best of the best. What was his was his, but what was yours was his too.

        Every single day for the first three years of our marriage he would run into the bathroom shouting, “I get the hot water first!” Every single morning.

        Wow did I spackle.

        • All the comments here are so horrifying, (and hilarious!) to the point of seeming ridiculous, (if it weren’t for the fact that I’ve witnessed so much of the same in my own marriage, LOL), but for some reason your husband racing to be first for the hot water EVERY SINGLE MORNING, just stopped me in my tracks. Its such a perfect example of a complete lack of thought for their spouse, just pure unchecked selfishness. And, yes, it’s disgusting, pathetic, all those things, but mostly…… it’s effing hurtful, to get that same little message to begin your every Damn day! Gah! I’m new here, so I know you don’t know me, but I wanted to say I’m sorry you went thru that.

    • Apparently the way I cleaned the stair case banister wasn’t correct. Didn’t matter about the results, ‘her’ way was correct.

      A banister. On a staircase {shakes head at the absurdity}.

  • I think cheaters hail from another planet, they twist information and change the goalposts when its convenient to them. In my experience they think their decent people, chump lady is correct when she says actions speak louder than words. I have realised I cant expect the truth from my ex, which is sad, but that’s life. We have kids together so have to communicate with him.

  • Your husband is about 10 years old emotionally. Behind my daughters house is a large park. Boys have been playing their made up games for years. His excuses sound like their excuses.
    I stepped out of bounds once or twice.
    I am not feeling like playing in this game right now.
    It wasn’t another group of boys you saw me with.
    OK it was but they are not really my friends.
    OK we are friends I didn’t tell you I was over there playing cause that would have made you mad.
    I am not bad.
    I am the shortest one in the group and I don’t like feeling this way.
    Sometimes I just don’t want to play with any of you anymore and I just go to that other group and play with them cause they are more fun.
    I have done that and you didn’t even know.
    Someone’s mother keeps watching us.
    If she is yours tell her to stop.

    I hope you and your grown up self are leaving so fast all he sees are elbows and the bottom of your running feet.

  • Mine kept saying she was a “very, very good friend, like a best friend”. He just failed to mention that they slept together too….mine said a lot of the same. The best one was that “you lost me when you acted crazy when you found out”

  • I am really just starting to come to the point where I am able to be a little more critical of what my STBXW was saying to me during the discovery of the affair and the discard that followed. There was a lot of the same sort of nonsense; “ILYBINILWY”,”I don’t think you can love me the way I need to be loved”, “I’m not a terrible person”, “I’m not selfish”, “I haven’t loved you the way I think I should have for years”.

    While this was happening, and for quite a while after, I was taking this pretty much as gospel. It didn’t match with what I believed, but no way would the love of my life be lying to me! The confusion and pain was incredible. I didn’t know how I would go on, but I did. With a little distance I began to question a lot of what was said, and realized that it was rationalization for awful, awful behaviour. Once I began to realize this, the comments seem ridiculous and pathetic excuses.

    Seeing similar stories here at CN really helped. We are not alone. Stay strong!

    • It’s true. When you start to see how many people use the same excuses, they start to sound less reasonable, and your sureness of self starts firming up. So glad you came here!

    • Yes. Regretfully, we lived in that blender …. so hard to see up from down and left from right while you’re entire self is spinning (and they are pushing the buttons “narrative,” “lies,” “blameshifting,” and “gaslighting”).

      Seeing such strikingly similar stories, getting out, and taking a good assessment after rescuing ourselves (and our kids) from the blender — all very important parts of the process to regaining ourselves.

    • Distance is the key. You have to get away from it (hence the preaching about no contact or gray rock) before you can start to see it, plus, for most of us, this was built up over years. They conditioned and manipulated us for YEARS to accept their lies and blame shifting.

  • Yup to, “I’m flawed (but not terrible in every way like you), but I am a good and generous guy.” He emailed, in the wake of dday, an article about a professional success. This would be the “success” in the town in which he had purchased a house for the slut, and lived with her there openly as a couple for a very long time. “Immersed themselves in the community,” the article said. “Spent far more time than contractual obligations demanded,” the article said. Well, yes. Sure did. Copied our kids on that email, of course. Because that’s the kind of completely self-centered and insensitive “good guy” he is.

  • Skankboy, told the truth for once. “I feel like an asshole for doing her wrong,” said to a mutual friend. Yep, that you are……a big nosed, lying, cheating, cheap, man-child asshole!

  • My cheating husband did such a great job at trying to convince me that he’s not a bad person that I was parroting some of that impression management bull💩to our family members and friends early on after DDay. “He’s inherently a good person…he just made some bad choices recently!” (Minimizing his annihilation of our 25 year relationship to the mere level of a naughty child who gets caught with his/her hand in the cookie jar before dinner). I also lapped up what he convinced me was my share of the blame for not being a good enough wife (relatively easy sell due to my already existing low self esteem which had been enhanced by him literally telling me that I am old and ugly and that he is the best in everything so deserves the best in everything not the short end of the stick/Old Maid card, aka me!) Thanks to CL/CN, I took my blinders off and have finally realized that not only is he infinitely far from being even a mediocre person, he’s essentially the devil incarnate, or at the very least, Satan’s spawn. Additionally, I’ve learned that none of my shortcomings (real and/or perceived) were/are justifications for infidelity.

    • Right on!

      It’s too easy to beat yourself up instead of holding your spouse accountable for what they did. I know I was willing to accept full responsibility for my STBXW’s actions. I apologized for being a bad husband. I wanted to work on our marriage, but she had made up her mind. The decision wasn’t mine to make. In her mind, I was not even respected enough to have been part of the discussion.

      As painful as the discard has been, the fact that we didn’t really go through any sort of reconciliation period is a blessing really.

      Now it’s just dealing with the difficulties of co-parenting.

      • Yip. Did the same.

        Don’t forget that while you were doing the pick me dance she was changing the rules by which you were gonna be judged.

        Except you don’t get told the rules in the first place. Not that they are changing.

        Done with that shit.

  • After reading today’s (and yesterday’s, and countless other) article(s) here on Chump Lady, maybe there is some ancient biological “feeling” that dudes get when their wife is pregnant that makes them want to cheat. (Bonus: I found out in the last year that my own father cheated on my mother when she was pregnant with my sister. Fucking asshole.) As a childfree guy I have not experienced this gotta-cheat-on-my-pregnant-wife feeling firsthand, but guys cheat on their pregnant wives so frequently it’s a question worth asking. Do male humans feel biologically compelled to spread their seed again very quickly after successfully insemination of a female human? It think it’s more correctly stated that the patriarchy concocted a narrative to give cover to these weak-ass men giving in to their animal instincts and cheating on their pregnant wives. But of course as you, Chump Lady, correctly pointed out “feelings” aren’t facts. In fact, acting on one’s feelings without logic or compassion is actually the top character trait of “terrible” people. So, yeah. He’s a terrible person.

    I wish men would take a bit more responsibility with other men and instead of fist-bumping we would beat them senseless when we got wind of the fact that a guy cheated on his pregnant wife. It’s one of those self-policing things that guys could easily do to help out the cause. Hunger-games-style deaths in an arena seem too good a way to die for men who cheat on their pregnant wives.

    (Side note: the blender cartoon is stellar work, Chump Lady.)

    • Actually Doubtless, I think it’s more the case that the man-child feels less central. He can see his partner is beginning to talk about this baby and focus on this new life. They can’t stand the loss of centrality. And if they’re not the most important thing in the universe, well then, they gotta go find some ego kibbles.

      • I think this is accurate. My man-child freaked out when our niece was born. He said he’s old news now. It’s all about the baby. No one cares about him anymore. He gets ignored. The conversations are boring. It’s ok that he stopped coming to any family gatherings because no one cares if he’s there anyway.

      • After the birth of our child, my STBX actually dug out a framed baby picture of himself and displayed it on his nightstand for 7 years.

        • Okay, I’m just going to remain here on my floor for a few more minutes at this one. Just wow, I’m speechless.

          • Mine also took out baby photos of himself after our son was born.
            Any time I’d print photos of the baby (our son) I’d show X the photos of our baby.
            He’d quickly glance at the photos of our son, and put them in pile like I had asked him to look through a deck of pain cards. As if he was disinterested, I would think maybe I had taken too many of our son. If there was a photo of X with our baby, or X alone, X would abruptly stop and stare at himself in the photo for what seemed like a very long time. At first I thought maybe he found a photo of our son he thought was especially cute, wrong!!
            I was wrong, he’d be looking at a photo of himself that he thought was especially cute.

        • wow. That also just reminded me my Ex had a favorite picture of himself, it was a watercolor painting of him around age 13. It was something he had in his house when I first met him, and he hung it in our house after we moved in together. He secretly gave it away to OW and I only noticed it wasn’t in our house anymore, weeks after DDay when I was still pick-me dancing. When I asked him had he gifted it to OW, he pouted like a child and said Yes! I did! Because SHE liked it! I remember thinking WTF kind of courtship ritual is that… Hi, be my new Mommy? And how many people have a favorite painting of themselves as a child displayed on their wall anyway.

          • WisedUp,
            Damn that you don’t still have that picture, it would have made such a good dart game board.
            Perhaps it will soon become this for the OW!

      • Exactly! Baby/fetus is now central, and man-child misses his centrality.

        I wish I’d had this knowledge the day after my second daughter was born. I had come home early from the hospital because Hannibal did not want to care for our 5-year old. Birth had required an episiotomy, and I wasn’t supposed to use stairs for 2 weeks.

        In the middle of a snowstorm, Hannibal complained that the basement had a few toys strewn about, and I had promised it would be kept clean. He coldly hounded me until I, deeply sobbing, carried my 1-day old infant downstairs into the 50-degree basement that NO one was going to play in, to pick up a few toys.

        I knew I fell out of love with him that day. Wish I’d left.

        • OMG Tempest, this makes me hate Hannibal even more than I already did. At least when cheater narc yelled at me for over-filling toddler’s sippy cup (meaning putting in more milk than he was likely to drink) while I was IN LABOUR w/baby #2, I was still carrying said baby in my belly, much easier than your situation!

          ‘Not a terrible person’ my fucking eye!

        • And yet he claims he is a better person than you think he is…
          So sorry, Tempest, what a cruel thing to do.

          • There’s a saying my Mom would say in regards to X’s (Satan) selfish and cruel
            behavior.

            “What do you expect from a pig but a grunt.”

        • Tempest and Karen E,
          Your baby stories really tug at my heartstrings.
          I am so sorry. I understand your heartache then.
          You both are such an amazing example to young struggling Chumps. You have walked so many miles in their shoes and you rise to tell them, to teach them, hell, you shout it from the roof top. IT IS WRONG TO BE TREATED THIS WAY.
          Leave a cheater, gain a life!
          You two ladies save many a life.
          Mighty, Mighty!!Tempest and KarenE!!
          Xxxxxxxxx
          peacekeeper

    • Doubtless, i read a while back that it has to do with hormones that people give off.
      They discovered it during tests regarding certain types of hormonal birth control (i believe they used primates).
      The male would be less or more attracted to female depending on the hormonal stage she was in: ovulating, pre/post ovulation, pregnant.
      Iirc, when all females were pregnant and the male could not get release, he resorted to compulsive masturbation, going crazy or down right rape. (The females were less willing because they were pregnant).
      Google the study for more info. It’s quite an interesting test on hormonal contraception and how our biology will be influenced, thus influencing our choice of partner…etcetcetc…

      But! We are not primates, we’re lightyears evolved (at least the majority, since i firmly believe that narcs are more apt to act on animalistic urges; their brain wiring is different- probably less intelligent, less grey matter, less impulse control – higher functions shut down for them) and have evolved to step beyond the wants of life. Emotional intelligence they fail at, because there’s no inherent intelligence to control their higher functions past “wantwantwant gimmegimmegimme” like a toddler. They don’t make the connections, they just mimic them, like trained monkeys.

      • ^^^ THIS

        Many mammals are not monogamous, and there may be a biological imperative to spread your DNA around, but we are not ruled by our hormones. We control our urges all the time! We go to work, we don’t hit people, we eat vegetables, save dessert for last, pick up the kids from school, stay faithful to our spouses… Well, scratch the last one for some folks.

        This argument is popular and since is sounds all “sciency” I think it carries a lot of weight, but it just doesn’t hold up. Just another excuse as far as I’m concerned.

        You can put a wig on a pig, but it’s still a pig.

        • Canadian Dad, absolutely correct. You’re either an adult taking responsibility for you behaviour or your an aging adolescent chasing a fantasy. As CL says there are honest ways to end a marriage. Sneaking around, lying and generally abusing the family,you said you were committed to, says it all. Cheaters have huge character flaws and put simply they don’t care who they hurt.

    • It’s partly being a bully … taking advantage of someone who is in a vulnerable, weak state. “WooHoo! She’s pregnant, feeling down about body image, worried about her health and the health of the child, worried about childbirth … while carrying MY child … hell yeah, it will be so easy to cheat!”

      My jackass serial cheater always cheated. Including during all three pregnancies. To him, there was nothing particularly special about me carrying his children — except that it was easier for him to get away with cheating since my focus was elsewhere. He even went so far in the gaslighting that we had frequent sex during the first two pregnancies … and he constantly reassured me how beautiful I was and how miraculous the babies inside of me were.

      Then the birth of a newborn puts a dark cloud over the disordered fuckwits’ cushy set up. Before the child, they had primacy at home AND while out fucking around. How dare the wife and newborn take away part of their cake?

      Jackass ignored me and our third (and last) child for almost a full year …. my hate (mostly on little one’s behalf) is infinite.

    • There is a theory that the sort of guy that cheats is, at heart, a pen empty-souled narcissist. No love is as great as theirs, no relationship so strong as theirs, no partner as perfect as his. Until, for just a moment, the attention drifts away from him. How is SHE feeling? When is SHE due? And things are being bought for the BABY. And plans are adjusted because of the BABY. If she is suffering morning sickness or pregnancy related health issues, she doesn’t have the energy to continually fluff his ego, to serve, to be a perfect sex toy, to give give him kibbles.

      WHAT? He isn’t central any more? Who is going to cater to his every need? Who is going to fill the void where a soul should be? He has to step up and be supportive?

      Well, he will show her who is the center of the universe. He can find all sorts of kibbles, just watch him. Because he is such a great guy and deserves it.

      Just a theory.

    • I had a close friend who made that same comment; it’s from month seven through about six weeks post-birth. I tend to believe it’s just because they are suffering from Lackonooky. Heaven forbid they should have to quit having sex because their wives look like they’ve swallowed 10 lb watermelons and they can’t sleep and something internal is bouncing on their bladders.

      • Mine cheated in the 1st trimester. I was working, (only part time I’ll admit) looking after a 2 year old and suffering with severe nausea. I practically didn’t eat for the whole 1st 13 weeks. I was struggling to keep my eyes open much past 8 (he would get home from work at 7). He used the fact that I was sick and tired to have an affair. Of course he had no choice but to do this because of my many faults and because of the fact he didn’t love me.

    • As a chump, father and a sample size of one I’d say no. When my ExWhore was pregnant with MY child I never felt the desire to cheat.

      Back then, my ExWhore was actually quite sweet. And she made the point that I should go and enjoy myself during her pregnancy with MY child since once he was born things would change.

      So I did. Every night out and every game of golf I was there with the lads living it up.

      My point is there were so many opportunities to cheat back then (and after but that’s another story) but I never once felt tempted. Not once. So I don’t agree with this premis. I do agree that cheaters are disordered fucktards who will actively engage in deliberately hurting another just to satisfy their own selfish pleasure.

    • I always admired Dr. Drew Pinsky (addiction medicine specialist not a psychiatrist or psychologist) giving stellar advice to new fathers. A lot of men would call the radio show to complain about their wives low libidos after giving birth. He would “school” them, explaining that the mother’s focus right now is the taking care of a newborn,even more so in the case of breastfeeding. The father needs to step up and ask how he can support his wife in caring for her and the baby. His sexual needs do not take priority for a little bit and he should masturbate in the interim rather than hounding his sleep deprived wife for sex.

    • Hi Doubtless,

      My husband cheated on me while I was pregnant.
      Aside from the regular bullshit that he spewed after being caught, he did do some self-reflection years after that he shared with me.
      He stated quite clearly that at the time, he felt very overwhelmed with the feeling that “shit was real now.”
      For years prior he had lived a VERY VERY VERY carefree lifestyle and then he met me and wanted to settle down with me. We married a year to the day we met and he had changed his entire lifestyle. He was also newly sober when we got together so that seemed to play a major part in it as well. Chucking one addiction for “new relationship fantasy, honeymoon period.” Plus, his mother liked me. And she doesn’t like very many people, ha. He seemed very fixated on the fact that I was an emotional mess (like his mother) when he met me. That was because I had JUST been dumped by my fiance about six weeks before we were supposed to be married. I met my husband less than a month later. I have often reflected that he and I would never have met and gotten together if we had been any other ages than what we were, or in any other place or emotional state. Here’s when the problems started: I wasn’t typically an emotional mess. Then over the next few months I got better. I continued to be fine and pull off things like plan a wedding etc. After we got married it was like the brakes were applied to our sex life. It dropped from everyday to a few times a month. He identified me as “wife” instead of “fun, emotionally unstable girlfriend that he was like a superhero to.”
      He didn’t get to “Save me” from my sad / bad moods anymore and now it wasn’t as chasy and sexy to go after his own wife. Where’s the challenge? Where’s the needy thrill? Where’s the kibbles in that?
      Then I got pregnant. Yikes to a guy like that who wants the thrill of chasing emotional train-wrecks and saving them from themselves. Now it would be changing diapers and being committed. Booorrrinnnngg. And trapping too. He has an ingrained fear of being trapped and controlled by an emotionally-unstable mother-figure. His mother actually trapped him (she’s discussed this with me). Aside from being in and out of foster care because of her crazy, she actually would lock him into his room and wouldn’t even let him out to use the washroom if she didn’t want to. She beat him almost daily. But to be honest, the worst with her is the way that she talks to people. A few years ago I walked away with emotional 3rd degree burns. It’s quite undescribable. But all of that is his skein. It was nice to see him put it together, take responsibility for it, apologize, and not demand “Forgiveness” or “get over it” or any other blame-shifting bullshit after 9 years of having dealt with it.

      I used to hope that a father-figure would speak to him because I do believe that men have waaaaaay more influence over other men then women tend to have over men. We tend to identify with our own gender more often than not (except in my case, I feel like the shoe-shopping-match-it-with-your-purse gene skipped me entirely.)

      TL:DR, pregnancy for these morons sometimes feels too much like real life and they don’t deal well with real life.

      And men, please speak out to other men. A lot of men are sensitive to shame and appearance. If more men said “dude, fucking around on your wife is so fucking lame, think of the bullshit you are putting her through. You’re supposed to protect her man, not stab her in the back.” I think fewer guys would actually do it.

      • I think that it is also partly due to the responsibility. STBX cheated on me while I was pregnant. He once said that he saw it as the end of everything he enjoyed doing in life (drinking, going out, playing golf, gambling). Never mind that he had already been a father for 14 years. Never mind that those things indicated he already was living a single lifestyle.

  • Huh, my prior comment didn’t publish. I was wondering if anyone else found the “I should know who your PI is” bit to be especially galling and even a bit scary.

  • I also heard a lot of the same as the original post. I’m sharing a few more of my gems:

    I am NOT a bad person
    People make mistakes
    Marriages aren’t perfect
    You are so critical and judgmental
    Why do you need to know my travel schedule or where I am staying?
    I fell asleep and couldn’t call you to say good night
    She’s just a friend, we’re like brother and sister
    What a shame that you won’t let me be friends with her, she is such a great person
    It is just too difficult for me to be around you right now, I need to stay away from home

    there were others that I hope to start forgetting. What a slime ball.

    • Yes, they all say the same shit … whether they cheat with one person or hundreds. (My serial cheating jackass — for more than two decades — also said the same shit.)

  • Cheaters and perverts always:

    Minimize (It was only this or that….the neighbor paraded in front of me (Dancing Dick).

    Blame shift (you made me commit adultery…..because you have special powers that can make me do things).

    Gas light you (make you think you are crazy)

    Bop you over head with “forgiveness” as if you are the one with the problem. God forgave me…now you have to. (After you forgive me…..I can start cheating again- then you will have to forgive me again….and again. Jesus says so!)

    Make unequal comparisons (You kept forgetting to buy my oatmeal…..that’s just as bad !)

    Try to make YOU the bad guy…for following your instincts and snooping around. (You had no business invading my privacy! My prostitutes…affairs and web cam hoes…..are private matters!)

    • Oh yeah, I loved the “right to privacy” argument. When I became the marriage police I was “controlling, overbearing, judge mental, etc.” thus it wasn’t his signing up for hook-up sites and sleeping with escorts that was the problem; the problem was my lack of trust and controlling nature. Bahaha! Whatever dirtbags! reversing victim and offender makes them disordered, it doesn’t make them Jesus! I don’t even know how someone’s brain can work like that. 🤷‍♀️

      • My X used that “privacy” argument to disastrous effect. After I had said I wanted a divorce numerous times, he begged & pleaded for marital counseling. I agreed, he behaved like an ass during the single session, but I decided to test him on the counselor’s admonition of “transparency.” For the first time, I asked for gradwhore’s first name. Hannibal Lecher looked at me coldly and said, “No. She has a right to privacy.” Then he triangulated, “Friend X said I shouldn’t tell you her name because of her right to privacy.”

        I hadn’t asked for her GRE scores (to which she did have a right to privacy), FFS, I asked for the first name of the woman who fucked my husband. Worst night of my life, as it finally sunk in how little Hannibal cared for me. Also prompted me to hand him the divorce decree I had filed earlier that week, so it started my first night of actual freedom.

      • I remember hearing aboit my “controlling nature” as well. I kindly corrected him. “You can sleep with whomever else you want to,” I said without the mildly hint of sarcasm. “Reeeaally?” He said back. “Yes.”

        “And you wouldn’t have a problem with that at all. Yeah right.”

        “Not at all, because I won’t be here to have to deal with it.”

    • HAHAHAHA, I’d have a hard time with “God has forgiven me” I’d tell he’s going to have to wait and see about that one, but I’m pretty sure God thinks you’re an asshole!

    • My idiot threatened me with arrest and prosecution – “If things get crazy.” – after I uncovered his incriminating emails, for “hacking.” Yeah, right. You used the laptop I gave you to access the internet account that was in my name, to use an email account on which I was the administrator. Not to mention we were still married.

      My attorney just snorted.

      In hindsight, I now believe Shithead was afraid I’d go public with his gross correspondence, especially to his employer since Shithead was using company-paid hotel rooms and meals on his business trips for his hookups. So he was threatening me to keep quiet. I’m sure he was worried about my sharing with our kids and his family too. I wanted to, oooohhhhh how I wanted to, but I didn’t. I do still have all that idiocy archived on a flash drive – if circumstances change, ya never know. 😜

  • “Im not a monster” (Dancing Dick).
    Yes you are…..only a monster can do what you do and not care about how it effects me (Me).

    Sometimes you have to be “judgmental”- because it’s the truth! Calling a spade …a spade is not a bad thing!

    • To judge is to discern the difference between right and wrong. I will continue to discern the difference between right and wrong. To NOT do so would be bad. I think people confuse judgement and condemnation. You can judge someone’s behavior/character. It does not equal condemning them.

      • Well, I judge and condemn shitty behavior that hurts other people (especially my kids!). It’s just.

        Injustice would be judging and condemning a person who doesn’t deserve it — kind of like our cheating spouses did when the equivocated and blame-shifted.

  • Was cheated on during pregnancy……the worst possible time to cheat on your wife! There is a special place in hell for men who cheat on their pregnant wives. Disgusting pigs!

  • 🤚 hand up here as well, apparently my sync cheater thinks serial cheating with sex workers is not an indication of his character. After I filed for divorce he loved to post quotes about character on his Facebook wall. I especial liked the one by John Wooden…. “Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.” This coming from the guy who used his job position to visit escorts around the country. Yeah, pretty sure he is more concerned with reputation than charecter. The thing is, he really does think he’s a awesome person. Sure, he’s polite to your face, it’s what he does behind your back that’s the problem. People who live double lives are deceptive, and the last time I checked, deception wasn’t a desired character trait. Sure he has the trait of positivity, which allows him to twist his deception into labels like “flexible and open minded”, but labels do not define character, behavior does!

    • Using fuzzy language to manipulate truth, I think, is one aspect of gaslighting. “NO, it’s not a bad thing to cheat and destroy love, trust, family — it’s positive because it’s important to be open-minded and to explore our passions.”

      Fuck these assholes for making the obvious seem confusing.

  • I forgave 1st time around..a work “friendship” in 1992. At the time, we had a 3 year old and a 1 month old baby with hemophilia. That mistake cost me dearly. I was told “she is a better person than you, she understands me, she respects me, she would absolutely love to stay at home and have babies”. We were so broke and things were so hard. He wasn’t there emotionally and I never knew when he would be home after work. My family was not supportive and I had no where to turn. When I finally do It out, I outted him to all and his mom came back with..”Tim was lucky to have such a caring friend at work.” I shoulda RUN. I had no idea what an AP was but I knew looking outside our marriage wasn’t right. So I pick me danced and became the marriage police. He screwed me over bad. 23 years later he’s on craigslist posting for orgies etc. The kids and I leave and he’s out there right away promoting how he’s now got a steady gf, and all the fb likes for his new life. And all the positive encouragement from people. People telling him he’s such a nice guy and they are such a cute couple. I want to fucking vomit. Meanwhile, the 2 younger kids and are still struggling to pick up the pieces. It sucks. Where is that Karma Bus???

  • I’ve got my own catalog of mind salad remarks as well (“I needed more control over my life” — um, you ran around unabated with another guy for 3 years while blowing thousands of dollars on plastic surgery……but I digress). The idiocy, dumbassery, and ridiculousness gets mind numbing after a while. Is it really so much to expect an adult to act like an adult?

    I thought my wife was pretty smart. So one question that I struggled with for a long time when I would hear this crap was — is my wife smart and just saying this stupid shit to me because she thinks I’m stupid? Or is she really just not that smart at all to begin with? I gave up on trying to figure that one out.

    I think in the end it boils down to image control. At some level, they still care about how you view them, so they’ll throw anything out there in the hopes that it might stick to justify it all. Other than that, I have no other explanation for it.

    • I agree about the word salad, lack of willingness to act like an adult, and the image control.

      My serial-cheating abusive asshat was bad-mouthing me (shocking, right?) … the bad-mouthing was petty and stupid and attempted to make him look like a victim. When I called him out, he tried this line: “I don’t tell people about what I did because I’m ashamed.” Bwahahahahahahaha – biggest load of BS.

      I quickly pointed out that his definition of shame and the dictionary definition are very different. I also pointed out that he’s an asshole who simply wants to play the victim like he always has, and that he still refuses basic accountability — all signs that his “miraculous change” he swears he has been undergoing — is simply another lie.

      (For the record, this was a deliberate/strategic breaking of gray rock. Laying down boundaries, letting the asshole know I won’t go along with his bullshit is important for me and my kids right now. I even passed it by my therapist first. 😉 )

  • I swear… every time I saw the word “periodic” I wondered if this was something that was happening for him on a monthly basis – like a “cycle”… his own version of Aunt Flo coming to visit. Maybe some chocolate would help him keep his dick in his pants?

    You are MIGHTY for gathering evidence. I’m sorry you have to be doing this while you should be enjoying your new baby and sleeping whenever possible.

    You’ve got this.

  • From Twitter (just to straighten out the religious cheaters)

    God@TheGoodGodAbove

    Hey Evangelical Christian Leaders,

    You may be giving Trump a ‘mulligan’ for raw-dogging a porn star while his 4-month old son was home with his mother, but I am not going to forgive him. I am also not going to forgive you.

    You are fake Christians with fake morals.

    Fuck you.

    • Yeah, the hypocrisy is crazy. My dad (a serial cheater through all of his marriages) was “religious” … went to church every week (still does, I believe … I have very little contact).

      And, of course, he expected his wives to be completely faithful and to treat him like a god himself. He was also crazy-jealous. He stalked my bio mom, with a gun in the front seat as she ran behind houses trying to escape. With my last step-mom, he went into a full blown rage because the new shirt she bought was transparent (and came with a built-in shirt inside that covered everything … it was actually quite pretty). He had this fit while cheating with the lady he left that step-mom for …

      Reminds me of a line from Tombstone … paraphrasing Doc Holliday when speaking of Johnny Ringo … nothing could ever fill the hole inside of him. And Doc said (about himself) something like “My hypocrisy knows no bounds.” Both fit most cheaters, religious or not.

  • I didn’t get “I am not a terrible person,” but rather, I got, “This wasn’t the real me. You have known the real me for 11 years.” Soooo ummm…was the “real you” abducted by aliens and replaced by an imposter who screwed another woman while I planned our wedding? And also…”I got lost.” Lost? You managed to find the airport easily enough to go to “work conferences” to visit the out-of-state OW, again while I wedding planned.

    Leah…your cheater is grasping at straws…any straw will do! CONGRATULATIONS for kicking him to the curb and on your new child. You are MIGHTY.

  • Agree, agree, agree! Is there a handbook or something that they all read?? If so, they need a new edition with some new material!
    While I was still doing the pick-me-dance and trying to unravel the skein, I asked him WHY!? He rattled off a looonngg list of my shortcomings including but not limited to my post-partum depression, letting our kids wear socks with holes, cussing, and our his “lack of sexual satisfaction”. At some point in there I admitted for the first time that I sometimes faked orgasims when I didn’t actually want to have sex.
    I have heard (over and over and over) that he now has trust issues. Because I lied to him about having orgasims. “I don’t think you understand how deeply you betrayed me.”
    3 YEARS of pick-me-dance. Now, soon-to-be-divorced! Woo hoo!

  • I got “I’m not a bad person” not from my exhole, but from his howorker. Right, because “good” people carry on a long term affair with their married boss who is also the father of young children. “Good” people also call and text the distraught betrayed wife who is clinging desperately to her marriage to tell her all sorts of painful details about the relationship and demeaning things the husband said about her. “Good” people get knocked up by a married man (although this is still in question because she was 47 at the time and the timing of the revelation coincided very nicely with my exhales brief breakup with her and return to the marriage) and then abort (allegedly) the baby over his protests when it looks like he’s going to stay with his wife.
    “I’m not a bad person.” Whatever you need to tell yourself to face yourself in the mirror, bitch.

  • Things I heard in the past year:

    When our MC told him he would have to disclose information about the affair:
    I do not like being made an incompetent, fool. I do not trust that given the full disclosures you are insisting upon that you will do anything but use that information against me in some negative way. I don’t like living like this…it’s getting harder.

    When I was pick me dancing and apologized for losing my cool over not finding any pencils for homework:
    My primary concern to all of this is I can’t help how I’ve felt for a long time…you do not trust me because of the choices and deceptions I’ve created, I do not trust you because of the potential for “pencil” situations. The problem occurs when I make bad choices and deceptions to escape from the feelings/damage inflicted from “pencil” situations. I don’t like it, I don’t like living like that…my personality is not strong enough. I might act like I’m strong, or unaffected by what’ occurred in the past 7 years and I think I’ve relied too much on Stoicism to mask how much I’ve been affected. My stoicism has led to an existential crisis and your books are basically telling me to suck it up, think of everyone but yourself…that’s it’s hard work to be unhappy.

    Other Randoms:

    I own up to all that must suffer and enjoy in life.
    Decent? Are you decent? I do not know what that means.
    I want to talk to you without fear.

  • Wanted to share a bit of my experience to help other chumps who are in the throes of suffering:

    Love the cartoon of the head in the blender. I have felt as though my head’s been in a blender for several years. Think that I’m making progress, though. Dreamed about ex-boyfriend twice last night. First dream: I found disgusting graphic physical evidence that he was screwing someone else. Second dream: He and I were in a bathtub together (his back toward me) with virtually no water (representing no love from him? nothing to work with?) and saying to him, ‘You’re not really interested in me. Are you?’and him just glancing back at me. Usually when I wake up in the middle of these nearly sleepless nights, I ruminate about him for hours. This time, I thought about the dreams and his Facebook flirtations with ‘glossy’ women (maybe they’re narcs or just needy, insecure people, too), for a few minutes, as opposed to a few hours non-stop, and instead of crying, noticing my hands tingling, or feeling rage, I didn’t feel much beyond mild disappointment and then noticed that my son’s robe, which was next to me, had probably been left in the washing machine longer than it should have before it was dried (‘I should wash my kids’ clothes again today.’) Five months since ex–boyfriend’s last discard of me, I may actually may be moving toward the land of Meh! I think that I see a glimmer of life from that far-off land.

    I now, in contrast to five months ago, feel as though I don’t as strongly want to run toward someone who lies to me, runs hot and cold, literally holding my hand and telling me he loves me one hour and then insulting me/dumping me the next, tries very hard to run away from me throughout our intimate relationship (when he’s not approaching me for sex), refuses to talk to me after last discard although we had what I considered a friendship for 30 years as the self-honoring part of me doesn’t like to be used, insulted, disrespected, lied to. He may have education, wealth, and popularity, but he lacks courage (moral and physical) and integrity. He often does nice things for a lot of people, but doing nice things even most of the time does not mean that the person is behaving acceptably. (Murdering someone ONLY once a year (once every 365 days a year does not make the person ‘good enough’ to roam free in society.) Maybe as Natalie Lue of Baggage Reclaim says, ‘He’s not that special.’ I may be leaning toward feeling morally smug as at last discard, a surprising thought struck me as for years I had believed that my boyfriend was comfortable in his own skin, ‘He needs to jump immediately into another relationship when he discards me because he feels as though he needs (ego) stroking to feel OK. I am glad that I don’t need people to (overtly) pursue me to feel OK about me. I don’t need an entourage or fan club to feel OK. I might feel even better than OK in spite of the absence of a fan club. Ideally, just one good, healthy man would really care about me as a romantic partner.Although I still get pangs of, ‘I hate that he (ex-boyfriend) gets to have however much sex, companionship, emotional and physical support he wants whenever he wants it and I don’t,’ I notice that I’m not thinking that thought as often and not as bothered by the thought as I was even a month ago. I am not as competent as I’d like to be, but I’m getting comfortable with my lack of competence, lack of assets, lack of status, and lack of friends (have some friends, but not as many as ex-boyfriend and some other people I know). I am focusing on becoming more competent and wealthier (to make my life and my kids’ lives more secure and comfortable) and acquiring more friends (not to impress anyone but just to develop mutually satisfying, beneficial bonds with others). I think that I’m getting more comfortable in my own skin, which is a good thing as I have to live with it for the rest of my life. Life with a good partner would be nice, but life without a partner might be nice in some ways, too.

    I’m taking my head out of the blender. I’m finally getting tired of trying to unravel the skein of F–kedupness that figured way too prominently in my intimate relationships. No matter how brilliant a person, he/she cannot unravel this skein. I will just figuratively walk away from it, leaving it in the pile of s–t that it landed in, and walk toward fresh air. I acknowledge that I can’t make my ex-boyfriend love me and that quite possibly no man to whom I am attracted will ever romantically love me, but I can love myself.

    • RockStarWife, I am so glad you are feeling a bit better! I’ve been following along on your journey here, and it’s been a rough one, for sure. Glimpses of Meh? AWESOME! Walking away from the skein is like evicting them from your brain. I remember trying to untangle a huge hopeless pile of Christmas lights, already a few years old, and after about 30 minutes in a fit of pique, I said “F* this” and chucked them all into the trash and walked away. It felt gooooood! 😉
      Keep on loving yourself and yeah, go do the laundry again… (I discovered a similar issue with all my dishtowels last night, gross, so I feel ya.. )

    • RSW progress towards neh – yes! It has been a tough path and going forward authentically, with self respect and self care is SO mighty. Hopefully it helps to recall that all that glitters on social media is not gold. Also true friends are worth their weight in gold, With friends it’s quality not quantity that matters.

  • My runaway told me after he did his disappearing act that not only did he have those all important ‘feelings’ for Twinkle Twat but that he didn’t want to tell me he was leaving because he didn’t want ‘ to see me upset’.

    Explains it all.

    • Well yes old chump,we wouldn’t want him to feel bad about upsetting you. Better to just sneak off. Sickening cowards!

  • And the tune with cheaters doesn’t change as the years tick by either! These cheaters will move mountains (if they know someone is watching) just to prove they are not horrible people. My youngest daughter had a visit with her dad sometime around Christmas when he told her that he had given money to a homeless man. “See daughter……I’m not so horrible…..I stop for perfect strangers and give them money for food. I don’t suck like you think I do because I blew up our family.” This is the same man who lives only minutes away and sees his daughters MAYBE once a month for dinner and does not text or call for weeks on end.

    WHATEVER! As my dad would say…………”you can’t shine shit”!!!!

  • I wish I were flabbergasted by the way that a man who cheated on is pregnant wife has the gall to complain about her lack of decency, but cheaters are all the same and there is no surprise there.

    Yet another cheater desperate to manage that all important public (and self?) image.”Please see me the way you always saw me, even though I just ripped your heart out with a blunt spoon”.

    Hands up here for the “I’m not a bad person”.

    Speaking of the UBT, here’s a recent one from STBXW: “I have been thinking about you a lot in many different ways, and nothing has really gotten easier”. How’s that for meaningless platitudes? (Don’t worry, the hook is obvious & I’m a clever fish. She’s not getting a reply)

    • I also get the “i have been thinking about you” line (and from his father). What’s with that? They probably think we are on the floor crying and it feels so good/powerful to them. I agree with you MightyChris – no replies from me.

  • My favorite input and output of the UBT: “I am scared my body is wrong.” “I am incontinent”. I would add “from all of my orifices, plus one that appeared in the middle of my forehead”

    Leah, you are mighty. Hugs

  • Reminds me of the pre CL chumps days when I pick me danced and believed that DX was “not a bad person” and howorker was “just a friend”. How dare I quote those passionate electronic missives and “invade his privacy” I “wasn’t meeting his needs” (must have been too busy adulting and parenting and working). He “hated her now” she “was crazy”..
    Too much time later after uncovering more passionate messages to another OW at DD2 DXs lies progressed to but it was “only hugging and kissing howorker”.
    Less heartbroken this time I concluded there was nothing to work with there.. Got a kickass lawyer and finally, just, got a good legal settlement and so am v busy getting ready to move house.

  • “You should have the decency to tell me who your private investigator is”

    I love when cheaters lecture about decency. Screwing around, lying, tricking you, gaslighting. Those are all decent. But hire a private investigator? Have you no shame?!?

    • Decency! Exactly! on that remark alone a thunderbolt should have obliterated that cheater or he should have exploded into flames. The entitlement shines through. How dare he talk about decency,
      Leah you are mighty. Better days are ahead.

    • This. [Years ago…] Every now and again, I would check my (now) ex’s text messages. There was always something incriminating there. When confronted, cheater X’s response was always how dare you be looking at my text messages?! I would always get told, I can’t trust you anymore. Yes, but everytime I look at your text messages, there’s always a Smoking Gun. Always. Care to explain that? It was never that cheater ex had done anything wrong, it was always my reaction to it. Don’t miss the mindfuckery at all 🙂

      • Yes, it’s always the reaction that’s the problem. How dare you not trust me after I’ve proven myself untrustworthy?

  • I’m so happy for you that you’re out – it may not be easy (especially with a new baby), but I think your life will be so much better and more peaceful without him in it.

    One of the things I’ve always taken so much comfort in from the CN community is how so much of the gaslighting and mindfuckery is the same for others — it’s helped me move towards “meh” much faster.

    I got all sorts of variations on “I’m not a bad person” from STBX. Some were outright requests for reassurance that I agreed with that statement, and a lot of them were of the “well, but you did X” variety as though there was an equivalency. Because after all, the fact that I sometimes asked STBX to help out with things or got irritated that STBX treated the den floor like a laundry hamper meant that STBX had no choice but to cheat.

    In the first few months after D-day, I was so hurt and disbelieving and trying to cling to the life I thought I had that I took some of that blame on myself and bought into the idea that I wasn’t perfect and that I was partially to blame. For those people who are still there, it will get better – you’ll come to see that the cheater IS a bad person, and that even though you are not perfect (because no one is) and even though you’ve done things that are wrong (that you might want to do differently in the future for your own sake), you didn’t cause the cheater to do what they did and you don’t need to own any portion of that blame.

    • ^^ Yes, and thank you. It is only with some time, and the support of people like everybody in CN that you can start to clear up a lot of the nonsense. I can’t make someone love me or treat me respectfully, and more than I can make someone happy. That comes from within them. I know that my behaviour during my marriage was loving, supportive, and kind. Not always perfect, but trying my best at least.

      The difficulty really is coming to terms with the fact that the person you were married to is not who you thought they were.

      • ‘The difficulty really is coming to terms with the fact that the person you were married to is not who you thought they were.’

        I need to say this a hundred times/day and add, ‘The relationship was not what I thought it was,’ when I start questioning whether I was ‘good enough,’ did something wrong, etc. Like crying over a broken vase that held sentimental value. Sometimes you just can’ put Humpty Dumpty, the vase, or a relationship back together again–at least not in a healthy, happy way. Wish that I had realized that back when I first heard the Humpty Dumpty rhyme as a young child.

        • RSW, before it was broken, the vase was fine. But these relationships were never like an intact vase, and neither were the cheaters.
          You’re right when you say ” the relationship was never what I thought it was”.
          The vase has always been broken and leaking, but you hadn’t noticed it leaking.

    • Well said beginingntohope, I listened to X’s BS laundry list all his perceived faults of mine, which were weak or non existent. Or grudges he claimed to hold from years ago. His one example is in rears to a minor disagreement we had years ago regarding where we would spend our vacation. He wanted me to cancel our reservations to Hawaii so we could visit his parents. My suggestion was to visit his parents the following month. X insisted, I canceled our Hawaii reservations.
      I know I’m not perfect so I readily accepted responsibility and willing to fix any character flaws.
      X however never made an attempt to claim responsibility for anything, flaws not a chance, what flaws?

  • “I am scared my body is wrong.” = “I let my dick make all my decisions. It’s not my fault I cheated – the thought of her tits gave me a boner! What was I to do? It’s like I have cancer, but it’s boners for other people!”

    • BWAHAHAHAHA!!

      I was trying to figure out exactly what “I am scared my body is wrong.” was supposed to mean. I think you’ve figured it out.

      • Yeah, I’d say that’s a “But my body waaaaanted to have sex with that person! It’s not my fault – it’s this stupid body betraying me with its terrible habit of having any sexual impulse that I shouldn’t pursue.”

  • I got “I’m not the monster you think I am. I’m 97% a good person”.

    No. When you have ms and your wife is taking care of you and you go and fuck transgender hookers and get extorted and give me an std after fucking men and women from craigslist for a year. You sir. Are a fucking monster.

  • My dickhead told me during his first admitting that he fucked someone else that he was sorry that he hurt her! WTF Dude?!?!?! You shouldn’t of been involved and neither should have she. She was fully aware of what was going on during our marriage, not a friend of mine, but his friends sister…

    He told me they slept together once. At my final discovery, I found out it had been a year of selfie videos, texts, MANY MANY phone calls and who knows how many sleep overs! I also found out that he introduced our children to her after telling me I wasn’t allowed to date and if I did that he must meet any suitor prior to them meeting our children. His reasoning for previously not telling me the truth during our final wreckociliation was that he was ready to put it all behind him and move forward. Great, but what about me… I guess as his wife I didn’t deserve to know the truth about what a good friend she was.

    He makes me so ragey.

  • This sounds a lot like my situation. It’s devastating and depressing enough on its own, but roll in the post partum hormones and it can feel overwhelming. I heard those same lines. My STBX said his ho-worker “is his best friend” and “he is not a terrible person.” Oh and just last night he said that if my son is with him in the future and he is with the ho-worker that it’s just one more person that will love my son, so it’s a good thing. Yes, more people to love the children…it makes so much sense that married families should all consider divorce because that would just mean more people that would love the children!

  • They have their own way of thinking. My Cheater wife:

    “I didn’t tell you about the feelings I was having because I knew you would stop me from going to the massage appointments.”

    “I didn’t tell you about the inappropriate emails because I knew you would get mad”

    “I didn’t tell you I was cheating because I knew it would upset you.”

  • The following quotes aren’t mine. I’ve found them from various sources around the interwebs. But I stored them in case she tries the “let’s be friends” shit. Although I think she gets the message. Enjoy

    Stop dressing it up: You are knowingly and deliberately complicit in harming another person because you consider it an acceptable 
    price for your own satisfaction. 

    t’s important to understand that cheating is a mindset, not simply a question of opportunity and/or discontentment with life. 
    Infidelity is not caused by failing marriages, imperfect relationships, childhood issues, or failures in the faithful partner. 
    Cheating is the result of a cheater giving themselves permission to cheat, shoring up that choice with a list of their dissatisfactions 
    as ‘reasons’ for why the affair became acceptable to them.

    I have yet to encounter a justification for an affair that meets the test of reasonableness. 
    An affair is not a reasonable or reparative response to conflict, unhappiness, or general dissatisfaction in a relationship. 
    A cheater having an affair neither seeks to resolve issues nor to improve the quality of the primary relationship.

    Cheating is about thinking somebody exists for the only purpose of giving you satisfaction, 
    and whose feelings are not to be respected in any way when the cheater wants something different. 
    Cheating is about being depraved enough to feel entitled to hurt other human being. 
    Cheaters are evil, if we define evil as the purposeful choice to hurt another human being.

  • I almost wish I had some of this to share. I decided not to even confront Dickhead about what I knew because I knew he would mindfuck me about it.
    There were a couple of occasions after I kicked him out…well the first being when I did kick him out…that I now believe we’re lead ins to try and get me to engage. The night he stayed out all night, I promptly kicked his ass out when he returned the next morning.

    He asked “What did I do”? And after I explained that he didn’t come home all night and didn’t have the decency to even let me know…It was ” well, my friends took my keys because I got too drunk”

    I knew where he had been and I refused to put my head in the blender.
    When he had Schmoopie drop him off to gather his things once…I told him that was ballsy. To which he replied, “What?” Again, I didn’t go there.

    There is still a part of me that wants to slap him with everything I know. But, I’ll refrain from putting my head on the blender.

    Thanks, CL

  • Same shit, different fuckwit.

    I was told:

    “I am NOT a bad person, I’m a good person who makes bad choices sometimes”.

    ” She’s just a friend, why aren’t I allowed to have any friends?”

    “The only inappropriate thing about our friendship is your insecurity and jealousy trying to poison it”,

    ” I lied because if I told the truth, you’d be angry, and I had to protect myself from that”.

    “Why bother telling the truth, you won’t believe it anyway”.

    “You’re using my mistake as an excuse to control, punish, and abuse me”.

    “I’m sorry you choose to stay hurt and angry, it wasn’t about you and I never intended to have you dragged into it”.

    “She’s a psycho who got her claws into me”.

    • UBT:

      “I am NOT a bad person, I’m a good person who makes bad choices sometimes”.

      I’m not a bad person. I just sometimes lie, cheat, brainwash, blameshift, and gaslight. Doesn’t everybody?

      ” She’s just a friend, why aren’t I allowed to have any friends?”

      She’s just a fuckbuddy. What can’t I have my fuckbuddies?

      “The only inappropriate thing about our friendship is your insecurity and jealousy trying to poison it”

      The only thing ruining me deceiving you is you starting to figure out I’m deceiving you.

      ” I lied because if I told the truth, you’d be angry, and I had to protect myself from that”.

      I lied because if I told you the truth, you’d impose consequences and I protect myself from that.

      “Why bother telling the truth, you won’t believe it anyway”.

      Why bother trying to brainwash you? You’re getting too smart for that anymore.

      “You’re using my mistake as an excuse to control, punish, and abuse me”

      You keep treating my intentional abuse as if I intentionally abused you. That’s so strange of you.

      “I’m sorry you choose to stay hurt and angry, it wasn’t about you and I never intended to have you dragged into it”

      You were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, like happening to be married to me at the time I fucked around.

      “She’s a psycho who got her claws into me”

      She forced me to have an orgasm against my will. Over and over again. That psycho!

  • “I wanted to feel wanted.” – And the frequent sex, support, doing everything, being the breadwinner, etc. from me wasn’t enough?

    “We are just really stressed out at work.” – Reason why her and co-worker were sexting, but swears they weren’t physical (they were as subsequent emails made clear).

    “He understands the tribulations of marriage.” – Should have been a red flag. Why are you and co-worker talking intimately about your marriages?

    “His wife is controlling and he needed someone to vent to.” – Another flag. And what did she say about me to co-worker?

    “We said inappropriate things, but we have never gotten physical.” – When caught sexting with co-worker.

    “We are just trying to help each other get sober.” – Ah, yes, when I found out about the methhead after co-worker that she met in rehab who still lives with Mommy (I smell win here!).

    “You’re an asshole! No wonder she cheated on you. I fucked her every way possible. Sleep that off motherfucker!” – What methhead wrote to me via FB Messenger that let me know that they did indeed slept with each other in rehab.

    “I figured you were cheating on me.” – Projection much after I saw emails to co-worker say how excited she was to “finally blow him”?

    “I only said that I loved him because I honestly thought you had already left and I wanted to feel love.” – She actually told useless methhead this during their healthy romance in rehab.

    • Chump-pin: you should be commended for sticking by her through rehab. She sounds like too some of the women I’ve met in recovery who use addiction to justify cheating. No. just no. Be strong, man.

    • Wow, Chump-pin, that is a horrible list of statements from your X and her meth-head BF. She clearly read the Cheater Handbook cover to cover.

  • The French have two expressions for the terrible teen years:
    L’âge ingrat and l’âge bête.
    The first means the ungrateful age (years), the second mean the stupid/brutish age.
    That’s what I think of every time I read the stupid shit these cheaters say.
    They are forever stuck in the worst phase of teenager entitlement and rebellion against the parent figures, with a dose of terrible twos toddler tantrums for good measure.

  • I got the same lines too… how unoriginal are these people?

    Mine said I am only getting a “one-dimensional view” of him – he’s a complex person and this event does not define who he is. I reassured him after 2 years of gaslighting I have a very three-dimensional view of what a nasty person he is.

    He also said he “can’t bring anything up without being accused of blame-shifting”. I laughed at that comment…

    It hurts me the most when he said the OW was being “bullied at work” (she has to declare to her work after they get busted) and he has to be there to support her… I am nothing to him. The follow-up “I won’t be responsible if you ever decided to commit suicide” is the final straw for me… he cannot be more clear about how horrible he is.

    But I am responsible for causing him “anxiety and depression” after my lawyer sent him a letter and he can’t leave OW because he “relies on her for support”.

    Yes head in blender is exactly how it feels…

    • When I told my fuckwit he was gaslighting me he said, “Oohh, that is your new word now!” again in the sing-songy voice. Sigh.

      And I dared use the CL phrase that I brought my A game to the marriage, I lived my life honestly and I refuse to believe it was all fake–fuckwit is the one who lived a lie (this was in response to the I Have Never Ever Loved You beat down from him after 3 decades together). His response? “Oohh, you brought your AAAAAYYYY game!” It is like talking to a 15YO little boy. Yes, he was a moody teenager at best and a flaming abuser at worst. Childish and cruel, words spoken by a fool who has nothing to fight back with. This behavior is right out of Lundy Bancroft.

  • My personal favourite was:

    My relationship with her has nothing to do with my relationship with you

    How he could possibly think this way is beyond me. My mind can’t wrap itself around this.

    • X-hole explained that it is down with compartmentalization — which is another word for “house of cards”.

    • So he doesn’t let his peas touch his mash potatoes, thus the peas and potatoes are not part of the same dinner. Idiots, aren’t they?

        • They are emotionally stunted and the believe their own lies. It’s as if you are talking to a 6 year old with a mouth full of cookies…..saying “I didn’t steal the cookies.”

      • Yes, arrogant idiots is more like it. To paraphrase the bible, sin makes you stupid. All cheaters are unwitting, walking billboards for that particular truth!

  • Do you think Cheaters shit their pants when they read headlines like this:

    “Larry Nassar Sentenced To Up To 175 Years After 150 Women Share Stories Of Abuse”?

    • No, I do not, QueenMother, since Cheaters are so self-delusional that they are incapable of connecting the proverbial dots. They always think they are the smartest people in the room, the most moral, and the most charming, etc. and will shout you down ad infinitum if you so much as suggest they are anything like what we know them to be. It’s like they have a personal firewall that propels any pesky truth from getting through that would disrupt their fantastic self-image.

    • No, Queen Mother, he still thinks he was okay doing what he did. Same as my fuckwit. He would think Nassar was an idiot to have gotten caught.

      I am really struggling here. I am just amazed at how cool and calculated the fuckwit is/was. I was soooo clueless. I’m not one to blame myself, and I am certainly not doing that. I’m just amazed at the calculated, planned, cold-hearted deception. Holy crap, the guy was good! Decades of “practice makes perfect” I suppose.

      To all of you out there struggling, hold on tight to who you are. Good things will come to us!

  • Last time I checked “good people” don’t lie, cheat, steal, deceive, bring STDs home….etc.
    Where I come from….”bad people” do that kind of shit!

  • This is so the Sprout – a multitude of the same sort of comments – essentially all minimizing, blame-shifting and gaslighting. I remember him writing in an email not long after he left “I am kind” – which, of course, he is anything but once you scratch the surface. Even when he wrote it, it felt like he was writing it for himself or some other audience. Ridiculous – and the arrogance that him saying it made it true, when the reality of his actions is so obviously not (not just recent history either).
    He still does the same thing. Recently when he emailed in response to my letting him know my plans for a trip back to our home country with our children he replied that he just happened to be planning a trip at the same time, he’d like to have some time with the children there, but that he didn’t want to “hijack” my holiday. My elder daughter is virtually NC, won’t go out with him, certainly not to his house, and even my younger daughter would never travel that far away on her own with him. He actually hadn’t been on holiday anywhere with us for 3 years prior to leaving and hadn’t been back with us to the home country for 6 years (and that only v briefly, much shorter than us, I go yearly normally). He absolutely wants to hijack my trip – to keep peddling the myth of being a decent father to his parents and the world, as the kids wouldn’t possibly go with him on their own. Like everything he thinks that him saying it makes it so (or not so in this case). Once upon a time I would have swallowed that crap but no more. Just keep reminding myself to keep my head as far away from the blender as possible – I love this image!
    Leah, you truly are mighty. How you have seen through his shit so quickly and acted so assertively is truly amazing.

  • Oh “the good person” excuse!
    He’s saying he’s a good person right now even after being exposed, he had sex with over 30 women in 23yrs together, among them prostitutes and some of our children’s friends’ mothers. (Not mentioning the massive financial damage.)
    He is saying tons of lies ALL OVER AGAIN to our three adult children. I can see how they are going to be abused, I can see the gaslighting, projection and distortion of reality.
    My kids don’t have a UBT.
    He is calling his lies “communication errors” and my kids repeat “communication errors”…….(Errors? No! they’re big fat lies!).
    My children don’t realize, they’re unaware of the fact that what they are actually doing is using his own self serving deceptive language. They’re already brainwashed, they’re being used and I’ve learned not to speak about how he did the same to me in the past.
    I guess he’s enjoying how helpless I feel when nothing’s left for me to do than watch him hurt them, manipulate, exploit and deceive our children in front of my eyes. They’re struggling to get out of the fog, it would be easy if only they listened or remembered what they already know.
    They were the first ones who found evidence of his double life, how can he win their trust again? Only by lying even more even better. That’s what disordered do: they expertise their skills of abuse.

    • I’m so sorry you are being forced to endure that. Some of this crap should honestly be illegal somehow, shouldn’t it? I don’t get it…… smh.

  • My ex had to pay a man recently a small amount he disagreed with
    “ the man is a crook!”. Aghast he was poor sausage.
    He however lies, cheats, lies in court, steals, abandons his children.
    Its their delusional compartmentalisation that is so weird

  • “This is not an affair. It’s a support group of two. Our affliction is you”

    ^^^^^

    So true, I bet every cheater has used this rationalization, and then throws all that other crap about their sadz our way as a distraction.

  • Alexandra: That was an excellent reply. I am on a plane to Oakland, so hopefully that will ensure my brevity.

    I met then wife of 12 years when she was newly sober; I had been walking that path for years already. It’s all just too much to deal with at that point. “How do I not get messed up?” is the ever-present refrain in one’s head – I know, I’ll fall in love!!!. And then we shacked up lickity split. But you know – twu wuv. (and the sex was fucking epic – a cheater specialty.) I have in the intervening two years since d-day come to believe that she was not done with her post-doc boyfriend when she and I first met (like you do). Meh – whatevs. Now I am 46, single, and two years living by myself. It’s pretty fucking great – gotta say.

    You mentioned your ex seemed to “get it,” and apologize. Another person today mentioned how his wife was sweet when they were pregnant. That’s a good thing to remember some good times. It’s true now that two years out every once in a while a memory from our past will slip out crystallized perfectly only of that moment, and I can see it as a bit of love and mutual understanding that I shared with her. It cetainly doesn’t mean I will break no contact, but it’s another sign that once we lose that cheater emotional healing awaits and the sky’s the limit!

  • First of all, this story is parallel to mine. 2 weeks postpartum, I found out my husband had an affair while I was pregnant with a mutual friend of ours. He allowed this friend to come hold my son at the hospital while I was recovering from an emergency c-section. I kicked him out but I’ve gotten loads of mindfuckery along the way such as:

    “The reason I am staying faithful to Maria” (affair partner) “is because we have such a short amount of time together” (she’s moving away at the end of the year) “and I just couldn’t go through something like this again in such a short amount of time”

    “There were times I felt I might not be in love with you”

    “I think I am a sex and love addict”

    “My dad and grandfather have had similar problems in their lives”

    Keep in mind, he was a serial cheater and I didn’t find out about some of them until after I kicked him out. It’s been extremely difficult having my family ripped out right from under me, while taking care of a newborn alone, while being a full-time active duty soldier.

    Cheers to us! CHUMPS UNITE and get rid of those losers.

  • Gosh !
    I outed my husband by accessing his google drive account ( his phone backs up to it periodically ) and he went to lengths to change his phone suspecting I bugged it somehow.
    He was never sorry .
    When my mood was up after playing with my son ,he would just casually ask me ‘ so , how did you actually access those pics ‘ as though it was some genuine intellectual thirst . Once I told him , he was somewhat relieved and went on with his business-still no remorse .
    Till today , he feels it is a greater crime to snoop compared to physical cheating .
    What in heaven’s name 🙄