Announcement: There’s a new private Chump Nation infidelity support Facebook page!
Please join us! It’s got all sorts of bells and whistles. Zoom meet ups. A call for in-person meet-ups. Videos. Podcasts. And me! making sporadic appearances as an admin. Plus, best of all, the whole private 24/7 support from your fellow chumps.
Uh, what happened to the old page, Tracy?
Hostile unicorn takeover.
Sadly, the admin — a volunteer member of CN who started the page — went rogue. Didn’t want to discourage people from reconciling or staying with cheaters.
I was getting complaints. So, I channeled my inner Chump Lady and asked: Is this relationship acceptable to me?
No. It was not. As she would not give up the reins, a bunch of us started a new group that is firmly focused on the message here — Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life.
As I said, I got complaints. I don’t spend time in the CN communities for bandwidth reasons, but I have more time now, so I asked to be let into the place that bears my name, my copyrighted art work, and my following, and where I’ve been directing traffic for years. The admin agreed.
Turns out the complaints were valid. And the final straw, for me, was learning that a post — linking to this blog — “Don’t Tell Me to Leave Him” — was flagged and taken down.
When the mod who posted it complained, she got this response:
Well, I for one am very happy to get into a debate about what Chump Nation is. It’s LEAVE A CHEATER, GAIN A LIFE.
That’s my message, right there on the tagline.
I absolutely will not tolerate any mindfuckery or confusion this. I do not support staying with cheaters or reconciling with them. Just like I wouldn’t tell you to stay with someone bashing your head in a door, or blowing the rent money on hookers and booze.
There is the whole entire REST OF THE INTERNET to peddle bullshit. I am not that place.
But, but, I’m reconciling/staying/waiting for character transplant technology!/immobile here in a lake of my own tears/ and I read you!
That’s fine. I realize a segment of my readership has just found out, or is trying reconciliation and then they stumble on me — I am not banning people in these situations. Heck, I was one of you once.
But I am NOT promoting reconciliation. If you go to a steakhouse, do not be surprised to find steak on the menu. Do not demand tofu. That’s not served here. Perhaps you’d like to nibble on a wedge salad and contemplate steak. That’s OKAY. But don’t demand I be a vegetarian restaurant.
Sigh. I hate this kind of bullshit. But it’s sorted now. I hope any existing members of the old group will migrate to the new group. Please spread the word. And be patient while we migrate.
Wow, that’s a lot of drama.
I know and I’m sorry. I don’t like getting crossways with people, especially people who have devoted years of their life moderating a support group for chumps, and who I thought were simpatico with my message. I have publicly praised this person, and I tried to keep an open mind. But some things cannot be compromised on.
When I pushed back on this, she wrote:
I will not be continuing to admin the group. I totally understand your desire to have things be ‘on brand’ but I’m not interested in having all the work and none of the control.
My previous experience with the forums was actually toxic and negative, with the focus being on telling me how wrong I was in my struggles to coparent with my ex, and how my efforts to respect their relationship were abusive.
I fully understand and support your commitment to telling people to leave, but I think that talking directly to individuals is something different. There is a difference between how a general blog post or book to the world is received, and how that works in reply to an individual seeking support. My rules and comments here were to address those who cannot help themselves but tell others how they don’t belong and treat others cruelly, defending it by saying ‘we don’t do that here’ or ‘Tracy argues we need to tell it how it is’.
I’m sorry we have to part. I don’t, and won’t, tolerate bullying on any platform. That’s a different subject than clarity about the group’s message. Thanks for all the kind support you’ve given to helping those in crisis. You’ll have to remove yourself from the admin role. But I hope you’ll stay in the community. All the best, Tracy
And then… she did not remove herself. But sniped from the sidelines about changes made. So buh-bye.
Good thing I have a lot of experience starting over.
Holy shit that’s a lot of drama. Tracy, glad you took back the reigns and stood firm. No matter what, IT’S YOUR BRAND. Your decision because your name is on it. Thank you! I’m happily moved over
I know what’s behind this idea of a “brand” but it bothers me bc it has associations with commodification. And yes there’s a book (blog etc) but all of us in Chump Nation know it’s not about brand. Or dogma, or cult of Chump Lady Personality. It’s about LIVES people!! It’s about Gaining A Life!!
And gaining self-respect, and contentment, and the peace that comes with the end of the cognitive dissonance, the gaslighting, the diminishment, the pain.
A shame that things became dramatic and ugly. But like CL said, we all know that scene. Hopefully everyone can pick themselves up with grace and keep gaining a better life.
I think it’s just semantics. In our corporate-driven world, people often confuse brand with core vision or mission statement. It’s kind of like how “personality” and “character” are conflated. Brand is about corporate image (“personality”), profits, etc.. Core vision/mission statement is about principles, ethics and social goals (character). The latter is usually associated with social movements but, even in the corporate arena, a brand without immutable core vision and principles behind it typically goes to shit and can only endure through corruption and cheating. In contrast, CL has created a “brand” which is maintained by a solid vision. She just proved that the vision and principles come before everything else by rejecting what was essentially free publicity because it wasn’t operating on the same page.
I don’t think it’s about a ‘brand’. That whole phrase smacks to me of ‘celebrity’ nonsense, and ridiculous so called ‘influencers’ on Instagram.
Tracy’s book, and this blog, are far more important than that, it’s about changing the response and mindset towards the recognition of cheating as *abuse*, and providing support, empathy, and understanding to all of us who have gone through that devastation. And most important of all, *Leave* a cheater, and gain your life.
Yes, it used like that these days, but it has a different original and specific meaning that is applicable here.
Thanks. It is my brand, and it’s also my basic conviction that encouraging people to stay with abusers is a bad idea.
Many of us spent years trapped in that nightmare pickmedancing, and can attest to the damage. Thanks Tracy for keeping it real.
You are always honest. You tell the truth. Not some truthiness. People who have been cheated on are victims. They have been lied to, stolen from, had lies told about them, lost homes, lost jobs, lost family, lost friends. How can anyone think any form of cheating is excusable? You almost have to give a nod to the guy robbing you at gunpoint. You pretty much know what is going on unlike the Chump who is being robbed by someone they trust.
Accept no one in the group ever, EVER suggested that any CL should stay with their abuser. All that was suggested was that people of the group showed others a little compassion as they tried to figure out how they wanted to proceed after discovery. Who knew that compassion for a fellow chump was a bad thing.
If the group’s admins removed a post linking to THIS blog, then you wandered off the reservation. There’s no justification for that.
But reading the comments here with stories from the old group, it sure looks to me like you guys were encouraging chumps to stay with abusers, bullying them into believing they were to blame for the abuse, and kicking out chumps who tried to redirect you to Tracy’s mission. Thanks for changing the name, because you sure as hell weren’t Chump Nation.
No -one has *ever* said that compassion for a fellow chump was a bad thing.
What has been said is your FB group hijacked Tracy”s message, artwork etc whilst following a different path, and bullied, shamed, and sneered at those who pointed that out.
Your being disengenuous here, I suggest you read KatiePig’s comment about her experience, and that of the chump with three children who was told she deserved to be chumped because she didn’t put her husband first. Where was your vaunted compassion for a fellow chump in that instance ? My own experience was similar, still raw from Dday, being told how horrible I was and that I needed therapy, because I took issue with an OW posting self serving blather.
You’re perfectly at liberty to have a FB page promoting such shite, but you are *not* at liberty to use Tracy’s name and artwork in order to pretend you’re anything like what LACGAL promotes. To delete a post linking directly to one of Tracy’s posts is absolutely telling.
Telling hard truths to someone is compassion.
You know who shows no compassion? A cheater.
Were you being “compassionate” when you let an Other Woman brag about how shacking up with someone’s husband made her “spiritual”? Were you being “compassionate” when you let someone tell a mother of three that it was her fault her husband cheated for not “putting him first” and then banning the person defending her?
Stuff it with your gaslighting nonsense. You’re either lying, deluded, or you’re so bad at running the group that you let all that happen under your nose, pick one.
My guess is that you’re either a naive doormat who ran smack-first into the Tolerance Paradox, so insistent on “respecting EVERYONE” that you’ve allowed the foxes to start running the henhouse and kicking out any hens who point out how it’s absurd, or you’re a covert fox yourself. Maybe a little of both.
Excellent. I agree with every word. Xx
You’re a damn liar. Eat a bag of dicks.
Be disappointed if you like. She’s has been a little busy helping people change their lives with her unwavering commitment and wildly popular ethos. BUT…since you opened this “nobody EVER’ can of worms, let me be the one among many to unequivocally suggest that this is utter bullshit. I was once warned for *politely* and *respectfully* encouraging LACGAL in a thread where MANY people were suggesting that it was okay for the OP to stay put in an abusive situation. Why? Because according to them “emotional abuse isn’t abuse” when it’s a “mistake” and the OP’s cheater husband wasn’t the stereotypical brand of horrible because he did dishes, paid the bills and helped with the kids when he wasn’t off fucking strange and lying about it.
Never joined the Facebook group when the original forum was closed.
Joining now out of solidarity and to share any wisdom I’ve acquired in my 10 years post-divorce celebrating my “gain a life”!
I also joined! Previously, I wasn’t comfortable. Thank you for all you do Tracy!!
I didn’t either, because I don’t want to give Mark Zuckerberg my data. I didn’t join Reddit, either, because it’s a misogynist cesspool I don’t want to support. I understand why Tracy had to eliminate the old Forum, but I miss it.
Tracy’s forum was so wonderful! I miss it too.
I don’t do facebook either. But I do find that Reddit has lots of communities that are interesting to me (so many different cat subreddits!) and those are devoid of misogyny. I comfort myself in knowing that Serena Williams’ husband was a founder, and he’s definitely an ally of strong women!
I feel the same way, Adelante. I do have a FB account, but the data on it is false. Fuckerberg would have a hard time selling the data if everybody just made up fake stuff. Still, the idea of going to FB bothers me. I’ll check the group out if I can overcome my loathing for FB.
Agree about Reddit, too. Horrid place, completely beyond the pale.
Fuckerberg ! How have I not heard that one ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I totally get your concern about data, but reddit only requires you to provide a working email to create an account. It’s exactly the same information you have to provide in order to comment here. You can also tailor your feed to only show you the private Chumplady forum posts once you’ve been accepted, so you don’t have to see or wade into any other parts of reddit. It’s a seriously great community.
I had joined but actually thought it wasn’t moderated because of some of the sentiments that were being shared. A lot of what was being said on that platform raised an eyebrow for me but I figured its just probably how the blog translated into wider social media with more reconciliation influence.
Thanks Tracy! I left the FB page a while ago after it went rogue. I sent a request to join your new FB group.
Just a reminder that we also have a Chump-moderated Reddit page that has NOT gone rogue. The Reddit community has been warning people about the old FB page for a while now. Feel free to join us there as well.
Thanks for the shout out! The instructions on how to join Reddit are on the http://www.chumplady.com/community page.
I also left, (and FB itself) after I was told I “needed therapy” and “didn’t belong here” when I got angry with an OW posting about how ‘spiritual’ she was now.
I’ve sent a request to join, but I’m feeling a bit ambivalent about it, solely because I’m terrified I might succumb to curiosity and look at fuckwit’s page (if he still has one). Not as far along the road to meh as I thought. Sigh.
“I also left, (and FB itself) after I was told I “needed therapy” and “didn’t belong here” when I got angry with an OW posting about how ‘spiritual’ she was now.”
WOW – – what a spin in the mind-fuck blender.
Good for you, CNM6. IMHO, you ARE farther along the road to MEH than you realize.
Ugh, toxic “spiritual” people are my least favorite people. Thinking that posting sunsets and buying overpriced sparkly rocks makes up for being abusive manipulators, and all the endless self-righteous pseudo-philosophy rationalizing any and all behavior they engage in. It goes to show that people will use religious thinking as a cloak for their crap behavior regardless of what it is, not just with “organized” religion.
OW was (is?) like that in my case. “You make me a better person” she said to FW. She posted all kinds of “enlightened” BS. It’s so gross.
Chumpnomore6 – I’m with you. I’m not ready to rejoin social media.
Social media is a beast. The only page I check on Facebook is Chump Nation. And sometimes Marketplace 😉
Re “Spiritual’. My STBX is involved in an extremely long term / long distance affair that I have only been made aware of recently. The entire thing is insane. He claims he has only met her in person once. (While I recognize that he is likely lying, given the geography it really couldn’t have been more than maybe 3 times at most, and even that is not terribly likely) Anyway, they were off and on. Apparently, during one of the “off” times, she woke up one day and was suddenly psychic. She reached back out and they became back “on” because she told him that the spirits told her that they are “destined to be together”. According to the spirits, they will also be rich. She also told him that the guides told her that by staying with me, he was keeping me from finding my true soul mate. You know, so when he leaves, it’s doing me a favor. (I mean, hey, it IS a favor. Lose a cheater, gain a life and all, but he doesn’t get a cookie for leaving his family. And does our kid also gain something magical when he leaves?)
He now is into all that stuff. I don’t have a problem with that stuff. It’s always been an interest of mine, an interest that I kept quiet about and drifted from because my husband was a complete skeptic and MADE FUN of it. My interest was casual and not terribly “out there”. But they are on a level that I just cannot relate to. And now I have to hear how he has fairy guides. More to the point, they both think this affair is what “the universe wants for them”. It reminds me of that classic meme “Honey, God didn’t and wouldn’t send you someone else’s husband”
All this talk of “spirit” and trying to better himself, while he couldn’t even leave his marriage correctly. Dude, you aren’t evolved. You are delusional.
Yes, a big red flag is if the mod was letting (supposedly reformed) cheater-foxes into the chump hen house.
I’m not saying the mod in the case was a paid troll-mole but, when you think about it, the RIC establishment is getting to be powerful enough to start adopting the dirty tricks of other toxic industries which use organized strategies to take out critics and detractors. When millions or billions are at stake, it’s a possibility. When I worked in eco-advocacy, this happened a lot.
I think I saw that “spiritual” OW on there too! There’s probably a bunch of them though! 😖
They let OW post self congratulatory drivel? Damn, that’s messed up.
When I try to join the Reddit sub it just tells me it is set to private and it’s not showing contact information for the mods. Any ideas on what to do?
Hey, if you’re joining the new group PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS and AGREE TO THE RULES. Otherwise we can’t admit you, and there’ll be a delay responding to you. Thanks so much!
I requested an add, but didn’t see any questions to answer. Where are the questions?
I mod a bunch of fb groups (not this one), and that sometimes happens even if there are questions. Try again and wait to see if it takes a second to upload. Best of luck.
HERE HERE!! (I had issues with the last admin- but not Kim, Kim is awesome- there was some bullying that I reported that was deemed “not bullying” so I left for a while-because it was totally bullying). Also here to remind you that there is a Chump Lady- Infidelity Support Atheist Edition which you are welcome to join and/or mod/admin whenever you have the inclination (very small group of 200 people where we just share memes/jesus cheater chump lady posts mostly)
Would love to join this group. Is it on FB or Reddit?
It’s on FB- “Chump Lady Nation- Infidelity Support (Atheist Edition)” (I’m “Stephanie Karms” – not my real name- on FB)
An atheist chump place? Fantastic!
I’ve been hesitant to join FB page(s) because my account uses my real name. Is there a way to hide name in Chump Lady page, or do I need to set up a separate FB account. Sigh.
you can post to the group anonymously, but your name will still be seen by other members if you comment (or in the list of members). I’d recommend a new FB account (I don’t use my real name on FB at all).
I dread starting up on FB again but this sounds worthy for a new burner account.
I had stopped checking it and had not posted anything in such a long time. There were so many horrible, shaming comments, especially about chumps who were having trouble co-parenting with the cheater. I look forward to being supported and finding support in the new forum, which is more aligned with my values.
*Being supportive to others* — Freudian slip? I try not to make it all about me sometimes…
MaisyL, Because of the awful comments, I relented and commented on a few posts over there and OMG the comments by those who disagree. Now I see more what I’ve noticed over the last few months. Guess it’s called “gone rogue.”
I appreciate the actual explanation and I hate obscure social media messages. Kudos to CL for her clarity and ability to sort things out (I like the word “sort”, especially how the Brits use it…they can “sort” anything up to an including ax murderers).
I have appreciated the kindness CN uses to accept that people are sometimes not yet ready to leave. (People pushing too hard, too soon likely made more entrenched to prove I was a unicorn). But we here also see cheating as abuse and staying for abuse is not something to try to find permanent comfort in.
There are plenty of places to act like an arm of the RIC and this (or the FB site) aint it.
Volunteering for an established organization means doing the work without being in control, and respecting the mission of the organization, as I understand it.
I would say “no thank you” to someone who offers to help me but insists on being the project manager.
I left the OG FB page a long time ago. I thought it was Tracy’s page when I joined, and learned it was not. I decided I would prefer to belong to a Chump Nation FB page with Tracy at the helm. I am glad to hear this new development.
I don’t automatically trust someone because we have a common experience. I have found out the hard way that a common experience does not mean that someone is safe and trustworthy. 🥺
“I don’t automatically trust someone because we have a common experience. I have found out the hard way that a common experience does not mean that someone is safe and trustworthy.” Realizing this too. Not sure what your particular experience has been, but for me, it’s been sobering to realize that just bc someone has been betrayed doesn’t make them my friend, or even a generally compassionate person.
Years ago I posted to the forum and Tracy replied “rip off the bandaid.” Due to financial unwindings and proper positioning, it took a few more years to get out. I continued to post and learn as the process played out.
I got more solid in my position and understanding of what had happened / was happening and finally the divorce was done right before the 40 year mark.
Was on the forum and reddit for a few years. I didn’t like the fb flavor.
This is a very important venue for support and sharing “experience, strength and hope.”
Best wishes for the new fb venture.
So sorry this happened, but seems its a common issue, I’ve had to leave groups bc online harassments. I sent in my request and I know these admins and they will do a great job. I do agree there are some who harbor internal desires early in the process when they just don’t understand the levels of betrayal intimate cheating creates, I was that person at first, I just could not think so disordered and want to hurt someone I cared for. I had to come to the understanding they just weren’t the person I thought they were. Honestly the principles of LACGAL can be applied to most if not all types of relationships, its empowering and freeing from the hamster wheel of attempting to manage expectations and feelings of others. We can only manage ourselves (and maybe our young children). Meh on Tuesday is a wonderful place!
THANK GOD!!! I got out of that group years ago bc it was absolutely toxic. I was fucking physically beaten, emotionally, mentally, judicially and financially abused for YEARS went no contact and got my life back together. In that group I would help others describing similar situations and would reply to their post only to get a lot of of fucked up toxic RIC replies.
I’m a seasoned chump (10 years since first D day) and turned my life around. I offered help to those who need it and it turned into an absolute shit show that I didn’t need in my life. So I quit checking in everyday. I popped in several months later after a couple of other seasoned chumps reached out and asked what was wrong. Started helping again replying to post here and there, then the escalated RIC bullshit started up again. As in, bullying me for leaving a fucking abuser. I was done!
I made a very bold post and told them I was leaving the site because it’s toxic to people who worked their ass off to have a healthy life away from toxic BS like them. I was met with a lot of passive aggressive hateful people (including the mod) so I publicly replied “they are just as toxic as my abusive ex husband” and got the fuck out never going back to that page again.
Well I am glad you started a new page. I had noticed how if anyone were to tell someone look this guy is not a good person take the blinders off you are spackling and then give examples to the person or tell their own experience then they would be attacked and called a bully. I know of people on the page that were in fb jail because of giving advice that wasn’t what they wanted to hear. Everything should be done with kindness not bullying I agree but some of the bullying was coming from the ones who wanted to be told its ok yes you have a unicorn. I got to where I was afraid to tell someone run this guy isn’t going to change. The page for me had been a refuge to vent and get support on my journey. I have moved over to the new site.
Some people just convince themselves that anyone who tells them anything they don’t want to hear ever is a “bully.” It’s a toxic mentality to have and one that is pretty common in Facebook groups. There’s nothing you can do to reason with people like that, they live in a constantly persecuted Hell of their own making.
Spot on. 👏👍👏
Thank you! I didn’t find your book until five years post divorce. It is the ONLY resource that helped me understand what I was feeling. Therapy was a bust. The book was pure gold. I’m sorry for all of the drama. Thank you for creating a new space for those of us that love your message.
thank GOODNESSS! I just last night had to snooze the first FB group because I kept running into the weirdness of it all! Migrating to new group now! Sorry there was so much drama, but I’m grateful for the option to choose to leave… I was considering leaving anyway, so having a new group on FB is a total win in my book! 🙂
Bravo Tracy! I’m glad you had the time and bandwidth to do this because it was LONG overdue. Not only was there far too many “keep a cheater, ignore your pain” type comments from people who admittedly did not read your books or follow this blog, there was also an unhealthy meat market feel from people who were clearly trolling for hookups. It reminded me of the predators who hang out at Divorce Care and AA meetings to take advantage of the vulnerable. Ick.
Yeah, that group is really bad. I was on there and a woman with three young children was talking about how she just found out her husband had cheated on her and another woman, a nasty bitch, told her she deserved it for not putting her husband first. The chump kept repeating she had three young children, she could not put him first all the time. The bitch woman kept calling her a bad wife and telling her she deserved to be cheated on. I called the bitch woman a nasty piece of work. I literally posted, “you’re a nasty piece of work.” in response to her tearing this woman apart for no reason.
I was kicked out of the group and banned for bullying. The bitch woman was allowed to continue to bully the chump with three young children trying not to have a mental breakdown. That mod isn’t just pro-reconciliation, she’s a really bad person who enjoys hurting chumps. That’s probably why she’s pro reconciliation.
Yikes!! I’m so sorry. Thank you for defending that poor other chump from that awfulness.
OH WOW! So it’s not even really about “bullying” at all like the Admin claimed, it’s just pure wreckonciliation bias that she’s justifying with claims about bullying. Typical. Yeah, I loooove hypocrites who whine non-stop about bullying when in fact all the people they defend and ass-kiss are the real bullies and the “bullies” are people daring to stand up to them. Real DARVO shit.
If you read her reply to Tracy, she states she was ‘bullied’ in the old forum. (Which I don’t really believe, I think she just got a few 2×4’s she didn’t like).Which is why she set up that group. And yet as soon as she does so, she sets about bullying and banning and deleting anyone who posts anything *she* doesn’t like.🙄. As you say, classic DARVO.
People like that tend to find “bullies” where ever they go. And if everywhere you go smells like s__t, check your own shoes.
Oh, thank heavens. I left that group years ago because of that mess. I’m so excited about the new one!
Tracy, I’m so sorry you had to deal w/that. I don’t understand how someone in CN could not get what you’re about. LACGAL is really straightforward. And if that admin felt there was wiggle-room in her mind for cheaters and their ilk, she should have recused herself from the position, graciously. Too bad people don’t do that in real life all the time, but I applaud your effort to be diplomatic, and then acting decisively when that didn’t work.
As for joining the new Facebook group, I’m afraid I won’t be a member. I’m pretty anti-Facebook for myself, but for everybody else that wants to do it, please ignore my tendencies to remain really private.
I barely have enough time and energy to conduct my my life without Facebook, and its actions really don’t encourage me to join.
That said, I wish there was another way to connect better w/CN. I’m sorry, I’m just hopelessly old-school (I’m only a few years younger than Tracy), and a big introvert. I’m the guy w/very few friends, but I really appreciate the few I have. I was fine focusing primarily on my FW XW and kids back in the day, but she blew that all to hell. Now I just try to enjoy my simple life, and be there for my kids as much as I can manage.
I hope all of you joining the new group have a great time. I wish you all the best. And Tracy, I hope you have no more problems in this regard. You’ve got enough to deal with already, I think. Best wishes to you and the CL family. Thanks for all you do!😊
Great! But I am now a little confused as I belong to both and can’t tell which is which…they both look alike?
When I clicked on the link above, Tracy’s image was the first moderator and I recognized one of the other moderators as being pro LACGAL. I don’t recall Tracy’s image as a moderator on the previous FB page…? I just clicked an email link to the old FB account and it now has a generic image at the top of the page, not the image of a unicorn being chased. Hope that helps.
Thanks, I figured it out 🙂
I should think you’d be able to tell by the quality, responses, and obvious point of view of the posters.
I would love to join the Reddit group – I’ve been trying to find a mod to let me in but to no avail. Is there anyone here that would be able to help me?
Scroll up in the comments and you will see how to join the Reddit group.
If that doesn’t work, email CL directly.
The audacity of that controlling ex-mod! The UBT would have a field day with her little ‘on brand’ text paragraphs. Who TF feels ENTITLED to do that with another’s name and property without permission?? Oh wait… 🧶
Love you, ((((Tracy))))!! You are awesome.❤️
That same admin kicked me out of the group when I didn’t completely agree with her. I posted an article and she strongly disagreed with it in her comment. So then I made a MISTAKE: I tried to explain to her why it was an interesting article (I can’t remember what it was now) & then she completely blocked me from the group! I was shocked as I rarely posted or commented. I sent her a message on messenger asking why & she never responded. At a time when I needed group support (mostly I read comments but found it comforting), she banned me. I understand it’s tough to be an admin or moderator but to block over something like that was ridiculous. I hope the new group is much better 👏
I was wondering when I clicked and didn’t see the usual. I have been a reader for a good while now. I definitely want to be part of the new page and submitted a request. Thank you
I look forward to being a part of the new group! I’m glad you decided to make the change. I felt like the old group evolved into a place where debates like that were getting hostile, and the hopium fumes were making me lightheaded!
Like you said, the rest of the internet caters to reconciliation. For those of us who left the cheater, picked up the pieces, put ourselves together again — Chump Nation is OUR space!
Sounds like somebody on a power trip who latched onto LACGAL as a way to boost her own self-image.
I just applied to join your group and unfollowed the other.
I tried wreconciliation because, dontchaknow, fake Naugahyde remorse… but, when I asked for an ironclad post nup, that XH go to drug rehab, spend a year abstinent and on his own, figuring out why the fuck he hurt me and the kids and prove it all with drug tests and polygraphs, his rage told me all I needed to know. I divorced and judge awarded me 82% of all assets and full custody. I have tripled my income, raised my kids, saved every penny for my retirement, their college, their down payments on their first homes. I met a true mensch and after dating 5 years he asked me to marry him – I said yes— someday. I’m taking my time, however long it takes and enjoying my current relationship status. I left a cheater and life is wonderful without his abuse.
XH is still with AP, still cheating, still a sociopath, in terrible health and looks like he’s aged 25 years in 8. Even his teeth have gone bad…. Drug use does that. 🤮. Good riddance!
It is only by leaving a cheater that a life is possible. Anything else is hitting that hopium pipe hard. Fuckwits never change. It is not in their DNA and I am sorry I know Tracy has outlined what a unicorn looks like, I have never seen a remorseful cheater. I am grateful for this honest space that Tracey has created for all of us and each of you for your insight that encourages chumps that there is so much more out there.
Some of the comments up above have me thinking, “what is my brand?” Prior to being discarded, my brand would have been “Keep my family whole at all costs.” Now, my brand is so much more colorful. As I have tried to nail it down, the elements of my new beautiful life all want space. I guess I would sum it up as, “Love the life you create.”
I would love for this to be another Friday’s challenge or to ask some of you – what is your new brand? I love the insight into what you have built from the pain.
This Shit Is Not My Story, seems like your moniker sums up CL’s message today: the rogue site was NOT CL’s story, nor was the drama that ensued. Trying to think of the right acronym. LAUGAFB? LACGAC (Community)? So today’s post might feel good… we’re glad she did it.
Her poor writing skills alone should have gotten her bounced.
It’s amazing to me how controlling and power hungry “admins” and “moderators” often are.
Wow I did not expect to see a post like yours this morning but I am glad to read it because the tone of that group was NOT the same one I joined.
I discovered your blog first when ex left for schmoopie. So I thought I definitely “got” your message. I was definitely confused (and big time disappointed) by some of the allowed posts and responses in the Facebook group lately for sure when long time members were getting “scolded” for reinforcing your message and pro reconciliation people seemed to be favored now days. I was thinking WTH?
Now I know it was definitely not my imagination that your message was getting lost and even some of the admin/mod responses seemed “off”. Your message back in 2011 when I found you changed so much for me. I have also requested to join the new page. Even though I am much further out now, I like to still “pay it forward” to help out newer chumps.
You rock, Chump Lady!
Gosh. Kind of reminds me of all those who want to scrub JK Rowling from Harry Potter because they agree with their views. But without the author, whether CL or JK, there would be no entity in the first place. When I was an English prof (now retired), students would sometimes complain that an author not done something the reader wanted to see in the work or had done something they wished the author hadn’t, and I would say, “There is no work without the author. It’s what you have. It’s all you have.”
You can’t have creative control when you aren’t the creator, and if you’re piggybacking on someone else’s creative endeavor or message, and then violating it, you need to go out and do your own thing while scrubbing your own site of the original’s artwork, etc.
I should proofread better. I meant, ‘reminds me of all those who want to scrub JK Rowling from Harry Potter because they don’t agree with her views.”
I don’t think it’s okay to compare Tracy to that extremist transphobe (and racist and sexist) and her violent rhetoric. But I do agree that you can’t separate the author from the work in that situation. JK Rowling’s books are also racist, antisemitic, and sexist… All the red flags for the nasty human that she is.
I don’t want to get into it with you about JK Rowling here. Suffice it to say that I’ve read what she has to say, and I don’t agree with you.
“No tagbacks!” is a bad look on or off Facebook.
There’s a podcast I’m listening to about her . . . “The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling” It’s quite good.
Her statement of what started it all, and her opinions, on her page, is excellent – I totally agree with her. I’d post it here, but my phone isn’t letting me copy and paste for some reason. If you Google J.K. Rowling, you should find it.
I’m w/you, Adelante. I respectfully disagree w/marissachump about JK Rowling.
I don’t think it’s OK for you to come on here and trash a talented writer with *your* violent rhetoric. J.K. Rowling is none of the things you accuse her of, and her books are *not* “racist, antisemitic and sexist …”.
Have you actually read any of them, or are you just going by the hysterical and vicious reaction towards her *daring* to express an opinion which is contrary to the received opinion of the left ?
Adelante makes an excellent point. The tendency of people like you and those who agree with you to turn on someone like a baying wolf pack because they’ve expressed an opinion contrary to what *you* think they should have is appalling. And that attitude is exactly what went on in that FB page, where people were bullied, sneered at, shamed, because they disagreed with the admin and many of the posters.
Amen Adelante. Instagram is awash with fake Rowling quotes and tweets. There is a great op-ed in the nytimes this week , a quote for those behind the paywall:
“Take it from one of her former critics. E.J. Rosetta, a journalist who once denounced Rowling for her supposed transphobia, was commissioned last year to write an article called “20 Transphobic J.K. Rowling Quotes We’re Done With.” After 12 weeks of reporting and reading, Rosetta wrote, “I’ve not found a single truly transphobic message.” On Twitter she declared, “You’re burning the wrong witch.””
Well you got the “violent rhetoric” down pat. Congrats. lol
Honestly, I think that any chump that spends any amount of time reading this page will go from “RIC” to “LACGAL”. Maybe some will be quicker than others… but I just can’t imagine reading the posts, life stories, comments etc and not realizing what is BEST. What I see over and over is that what my stbx did was not novel. Not special. While it shocked me, it wouldn’t shock anyone who spent time here. We see so many examples of “they don’t change”. Hell, that Dr Amy Guy that was posted this week showed that 20 years later, at 71, he STILL hadn’t changed. And then CN chimed in and we saw how many stories they had, just like it.
For me, reading the sad comments in the RIC blogs and briefly attempting to understand the RIC/Perel logic— which I never could make sense of — because I was so desperate for things to be “ok” was enough of a bitch slap. Discovering CL soon after leaving was extremely validating and enlightening, however. I felt SO stupid, confused and alone before that, and I don’t know where I’d be or how I would’ve made it to NC without Chump Lady. She’s not the only legit anti-cheater site I’ve found; she’s the only truly anti-abuse site as well. Thanks, Tracy, for taking a stand and creating a chump sanctuary. Even IRL, I have nothing/no one to truly relate to about these issues. Can’t bring myself to join Facebook, but the new page sounds wonderful, as does the old forum. Thanks for all you (and your mod squad) do for this community.
I don’t know that I meant to use the term ‘bitch slap’; I like the CN lingo of ‘hit over the head with a 2×4 of truth’ better.
Another correction! Meant to write “She’s not *just* the only legit anti-cheater site I’ve found…”
Wow, you were chumped by the FB page Admin! What she did to you, Tracy, is so fascinatingly, yet mind-bogglingly, consistent with being betrayed by a cheater.
Running a Facebook page that has your name and copyrighted art work implies that she agreed with the “Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life” message that you’ve consistently promoted for years. In essence, she broke her vow to support that message. She could have been honest with you and the page’s followers that she didn’t believe in that message any longer, “divorced” herself from the community, and then started her own Facebook page with her own message. The way she piggy-backed on your hard work and used a platform with your brand to give credibility to her own beliefs about reconciliation is disgusting.
Wow, it’s in full damage control over there atm. They all sound so reasonable in their line of thinking as what they were trying to offer, and all I can think is, wow, it’s just like being hoovered by a cheater. Then they start talking about how it’s ‘their’ page that they started and they have a right to run it how like they like and it’s like, “Hold up, what is this sweet stink of entitlement I smell, wafting gently on the breeze?”.
Very brave of you to go over !
SunriseRuby’s post says it all, really, if it’s their page, and they have the right to run it however they like, then they have *no* right to use Tracy’s name, and artwork, and imply the page has the same ethos as LACGAL, which it clearly doesn’t. Such dishonesty.
Thanks. That’s how it went down and how it felt.
I am personally very excited about this new endeavor. In my earlier hell days, group meet ups are powerful. I find myself fortunate to have an amazing community of friendship and a wicked amazing therapist. Bravo Tracy. Mean selfish people suck. I left the FB group a while ago. There is a great group on reddit. “Divorcing a Narcissist” I pop into every now and then.
Are you part of the ChumpLady group on reddit too? When the big migration happened (when Tracy had to close her forums) some of the members wanted to start over on facebook, the rest wanted more privacy so the reddit group was formed.
Oh this explains so much. I rejoined the existing fb group a couple of months ago just when Tracey popped up as an admin and yeah, I was surprised what a soft pedal it was, that it seemed to be a discussion board more than anything and that only a few of us seemed to actively promote chump lady’s blog posts and reading the book in reponse to chump’s posts. And now that I think of it I was puzzled as it appeared that my link to that same article mentioned above disappeared but I thought it was my settings. A shame for some of the members over there, especially some of the newer chumps who’ve read the book but may not be reading here, and would be open to moving. I’m gonna go over and spread the word though and expect to get kicked in due order. Thanks Tracy for all you do, and the new mods, it’s obviously been a busy time for you.
Chump lady Tracy. I’m adverse to FB and am off of it. I wish I could join without being in that museum of peoples lives. And Reddit wanted a bunch of info, not safe for me. So all I have is your archives which gives me a read to all the years. I devour it every night thinking about all of us chumps who have no where to go without guilt and grief for not taking all the cuts with the knives of cheaters. I had 2 cheaters – 37 years apart . The first cheater took 37 years to grow up and my second one just wentoff the deep end at 61…BUT what TRACY SAYS IS THE TRUTH from every experience I have had. Who wants to leave? A chumps heart is not even geared to leave. But if I had not heard & seen & felt the gutting of these relationships I could not have left the cheater#2 as fast. I saved my dignity and mental health with the help of this site and my wise therapist, because it is true. Plus the warning about finances and them using you and trashing you later is real. The devaluing is insidious and cruel as the years go by. I’m sad about the drama but the other side is Loud and clear. Everyone Is for reconciliation. Tracy is a lone voice and you must not dilute it for those that need to LIVE . Thank you Tracy for taking off the blinders and giving us a new kind of hope.A life free from STDs, lies, tricks Illusions, rabid disrespect, cruelty, delusions, more lies, children confused and time lost to others who do not care..the list is endless. Thank you TRACY!!! Keep the faith in God and ourselves to escape the prison
” I’m adverse to FB and am off of it. I wish I could join without being in that museum of peoples lives. And Reddit wanted a bunch of info, not safe for me. ”
Same. TG for ChumpLady.com
I was tag team snipped on the other CL forum. I don’t even remember what my original comment was, but I had no less than 3 posters tell me “I should be ashamed of myself” – for whatever they objected to.
Lookit, as chumps we ALL have been at the place, at one time or another, to want to at least try to reconcile. Chumps consider it as a default I imagine.
It is painful to hear the truth. It is painful to tell a newbie the truth. It’s worse to accept it.
I understand the reluctance and pain of staring down the reality of a future of living with a cheater.
Almost as painful as being chumped.
Does not mean it shouldn’t be said. It may take a chump many months or years to truly hear it.
Let the other sites peddle hopium.
I didn’t find your blog or book until years after “reconciling” (more like being an economic hostage), and I even seem to have the rare serial cheater turned unicorn. I’m not sure at what point of good behavior you declare a unicorn because in my mind there’s always a possibility they aren’t even with years of the best behavior where you’re looking for the lobotomy scars that seemed to produce some radical change in therapy. But, I wish I had found your blog originally or even after I found out he cheated again, or even when he finally hit bottom and confessed everything after a year of therapy. If I could go back in time I would tell my teenage self to leave at the first sign of smoke instead of going nuts looking for the actual fire for years.
I one thousand percent support people leaving a cheater, and it’s inspiring to see the good outcomes even with economic instability. I love how happier all of the members seem after they have left. I wish I’d had that kind of role modeling when I was in the thick of everything before eventually finding my own meh while disinterestedly watching my serial cheater go to therapy for 5 or 6 years and get medicated for his mental health issues.
It’s not worth years of your life being the catalyst that changes someone else even in the very rare chance that it actually works out. I ended up burned up in the process, and now I am the one that needs therapy. Plus, there is something very frustrating about someone going through therapy and all of the sudden noticing you and not anyone else. It’s kind of like well if you are capable of that why not for the first ten years? You won’t end up with the same relationship, but a radically different one.
Honestly, I think every chump deserves a loyal, loving relationship from the beginning not after watching someone sort out their childhood trauma for years. That’s honestly why I’ve never commented in the group because I don’t want anyone to latch onto my story with hope because it’s not worth it. I wasted years of my life that I could have been doing better things.
I am glad to at least have found your blog after the fact because it really helped me stop any sort of blame of myself, and I also know if I ever see even a hint of fuckery, I’ll be out right away. Luckily, I have been working on my independence while that whole process was taking place, so I could support my children by myself if needed. I am glad that you have made a group that is focused on leaving instead of any sort of reconciling because it’s just not worth sticking around with some low percentage of change. Even when it works out, you won’t have some romantic relationship no matter how hard the cheater tries to fix things because there isn’t really fixing some wrong doings.
I only wish I’d found your group in my late teens and early twenties when I was very scared and only finding reconciliation type material or chump blaming on the internet. I would have been so inspired to see the positive changes all of the group members seem to experience, and I don’t think I’d have been afraid to leap even with the severe economic losses I would have taken. At the very least, I could have stopped blaming myself much earlier. Reading your materials has definitely given me confidence and a backbone that as a chronic people pleaser I lacked before.
Unicorn-Wife as well and frankly I found out so long after that I’ve felt torn ever since. I never recommend staying. Ugh.
I’m really glad this is happening. I left the fb group years ago because of this blurring of boundaries, and weirdness
Thank goodness! That group was something else. I never could reconcile how they were supporting people staying. I was asking myself if they read the same book I did.
I actually just signed up to meet with a counselor to prepare as I am about to lower the boom. Long time coming. But from the minute I came here, I never even once considered reconciliation. I have been laser focused on getting out. I have needed the support of like minds. Cheaters are so vile. I can’t fathom trying to swallow my dignity further. I’m already angry that I wasted so much of myself – my time, my energy – on klootzak. I’m here for the stories of happiness on the other side. I’m here for like-minded individuals who stand up against FWs and impose consequences. CN are my role models. If I did not want this I should be somewhere else. Period. You wouldn’t expect vegetarians on a bacon lover’s group. You have to find your tribe. Thank you for protecting the tribe!
MrWonderfulsEx I’m so glad you are finally in a position to leave. Be safe.
There’s been a lot of breakups lately
Harry and Wills.
Sam Vaknin and Richard Grannon.
My neighbour who complained my spaniel barked twice one time, and me (more just avoiding eye contact but I’m jack of entitled people these days).
Good on you CL.
Good to hear Tracy! But I’m sorry you have go through someone giving the impression that they are you.
At times I’ve been envious of those who find support on FB and Reddit. I have not been a big social media fan. One blog a day is plenty for me.
But now I worry that if I recommended your blog to anyone that they misunderstood and got on this fake FB site. That would be terrible!
Anyway, thanks for all you do.
Tracy, this makes me so mad! I haven’t been on the Facebook much anymore, since the mods were tossing members out left and right. I was even put on ice for a day when I mistakenly left a laugh emoji to someone’s story instead of the hug emoji I intended to leave, and wasn’t given a chance to redeem myself. I would never do that knowingly! But I just left a BIG post telling them what I think of their idea of support. It’ll be deleted, just as my one and only post to that site asking innocently what happened to Jas Bawa was. Thanks for being the voice of reason in this cesspool of infidelity. PS I have a password but had to post this as a guest. Must be because of my new hard drive? What do I need to do?
Never mind the PS, I see my darling donkey Scruffie.
Who’s Jas Bawa ?
He was a lovely and much followed chump who was very supportive, but also liked to post short journal posts—which was arbitrarily decided to be against the ‘rules’ about a month after he started doing it. So, instead of letting him know, or giving him a warning about it, they banned him. I too was banned when I dared to inquire about it. It caused a giant mess that saw a lot people being banned or leaving. Thankfully, I helped Jas and a few others find their way to our reddit group.
Thanks. What a mess. Ugh.
I’m relieved someone did something. I was one of the first people to join that Facebook page when it started a couple of years ago. It didn’t take long for it to go south. Between being over run by people from the RIC pages. The constant banning and insults. It was anxiety inducing . I left it a mere 4 weeks after it’s birth. No one should be allowed to cause more trauma to people. Thank you Tracy.
Are you going to make your page private? Everything is wide open when I look so obviously I can’t really comment on anything lest the trolls see me. 🙁
Wait . . . now it’s not. Sorry it must be me hyper-clicking links.
It’s private. Join us!
I never joined the previous facebook group. I hang out with the Reddit chumps. We firmly stand with Tracy on her “Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life” philosophy.
Chump Lady, you are amazing. Thank you so much for being an example of how to stand firmly in your truth!
*The* truth, not ‘your’ truth. ‘Your truth’, ‘my truth’ is someone’s opinion, feelings, not *the truth*, which is backed up by facts, which is what Tracy does.
This forum has been great. The common chump experience. Saying it’s not a reflection on me his behavior. I didn’t cause it by not loading the dishwasher the way he wanted. So helpful to have it pointed out that cheating is a character flaw. That cheating is abusive behavior. That cheaters need control. That cheaters have low to no empathy. That cheaters have personality disorders. This whole forum is untangling the skein. We have all untangled it. And that has been very helpful. I totally emotionally, intellectually, spiritually understand cheaters and why they cheat. It’s because they can. Thanks Chump Lady, for being a resource for chumps.
Thank god. I’ve been with you from almost the start. Slowly on FB the narrative changed. Reconciliation, forgiveness, understanding the cheater became the narratives. It took me a long time and lots of reading here, to stop being co-dependent, have real boundaries and say no! I could never go back to my old self.
Now how the heck do we switch? I want the “leave a cheater “ FB page.
It exists! I took my name back. The new group is called Chump Nation (infidelity support). The old group (changed the name on the way out) is just “infidelity support.” If you search on Facebook you’ll find it. Or follow the hyperlinks in my blog. It’s a private group, so please answer the questions to be admitted. Thanks!
Thank you, Tracy! I left that FB group awhile back, reading it drove me batty. It seemed like a free for all and wasn’t following the CL tenets. There were some members that were trying, but it seemed like the majority of members didn’t know of or follow the book or blog. I made at least one if not a few comments about the focus being “Leave a Cheater” (helloooooooo???? it’s in the title) and even drew a parallel that comments about Sam’s Club were probably more appropriate for a Sam’s FB group not a Costco FB group and vice versa. I’m sure there are plenty RIC groups to spew that reconciliation/unicorn bullshit on. It seems ridiculous to have to clarify, but a CL group based on the CL book should follow along with the sentiments in the book and blog. 🙂
Thank you for all you do, Tracy! As you hear time and time again, your book save my sanity and my life. I’m 4 years post DDay almost 4 years NC. Finding your blog and then book confirmed I was not losing my fucking mind despite my ex trying to convince me otherwise. Love all you true Chumps!
Yeesh. I have experience with Facebook Group Administrating, both as an Admin myself and dealing with various other Admins, and it sounds like yours fell into this really common type I’ve seen just about everywhere, the, “I don’t want to do the job that I volunteered for so instead I’ll sabotage the group by making stupid rule changes that nobody likes or wants in order to try to ‘minimize fighting’ AKA give myself less work to do” type.
If people are using “telling it like it is” as an excuse to be bullies, that’s one thing, and I do fully believe that such a thing can happen (I’ve seen it myself). But the solution to that is to step in, police what’s acceptable and what’s not, and ban the people who don’t get it. Not to throw your arms in the air and be all, “Ugh, fine, we’ll just change the philosophy of the group then so all sides are allowed! There, now there’s no reason to fight!” Uh, sorry, no, not what the group’s for! It’s a classic lazy approach to conflict, the “take away the source of the problem” as opposed to addressing the people starting the problems approach. And that might work in some circumstances, but not when the source in question is crucially important to the individuals or dynamics involved. (Ex: Taking away a gaming system might be a valid way to get your kids to stop fighting. Taking away one of your kids’ scholarship to stop the fighting because the other is jealous is NOT.)
While I have sympathy for their plights, Chump Lady is not the place for you to get reconciliation support, sorry. That doesn’t give people an excuse to bully you, but “bullying” isn’t an excuse for you to demand something that’s not on the menu either, as Tracey said. If they can’t handle that, then they need to find somewhere else to get support. Giving in and giving people what they want is not always the answer, and people don’t get room to act entitled and demand to hear what they want to hear just because they’re going through a hard time.
On another note, I think in a weird way, people defend and demand reconciliation in Chump Nation specifically because they know on some gut level that Tracey is right. They write to her, and they post that way in her group, because they almost feel as though if they can get *even her* to admit that it seems like their relationship is worthy of a second try that that would be the ULTIMATE SIGN THAT IT’S TRUE! Or something. Basically a weird form of confirmation bias, where they want their biggest skeptic to admit that they’re right so that they can kill off that little nagging voice of doubt in the back of their head once and for all. I could be wrong though… just armchair speculation.
That’s totally a thing. It’s the same reason so many OW write to me too.
The hubris! The old mod just announced that she was “The group creator”. Still running mileage out of soapboxing on CL content. Tracy, you were too nice. I’d send her a cease and desist.
She’s in Australia. But if I need an attorney, Mr. CL is a great litigator. We removed all my copyrighted art and content on the way out the door, so she just has her ill-gotten base. Maybe they’ll get sassy and give her something to moderate. I dunno. Too busy creating a vibrant community in the new group.
I saw some bullying at times but thought it was a one-off and dealt with it. Kind of reminds me of the Garden of Eden…even when you think you have the perfect and controlled environment, there is always a snake in the grass or in the chump’s case…a snake in the house.
“there is always a snake in the grass or in the chump’s case…a snake in the house.”
So so true. It reminds me of post Dday, a conversation in my office on break about a story of rats found in our old building. One young lady said “ick, can you imagine being in bed and a rat crawl in bed with you” I said “been there done that”. Got a big laugh and it helped me for a minute.
I found I couldn’t handle the volume of betrayal stories. I understand the pain and confusion. I celebrate the mighty efforts to gain a life. I just find any acceptance of cheating behavior too triggering. I’m so grateful for CL’s blog.
Thank God for this. That group became a cesspool of mixed messages. I ended up essentially getting banned for standing up for LACGAL principles.
Thank you so much for getting a new group! I realized I was not reading/ replying as the vibe had really changed over the last 2 years I had been there.
I very much appreciated you showing the texts/emails that were a part of the splitting.
You and the CL message helped me be the happy chump- free person I am today! Thank you.