All the Good Ones Are Gone

I’m sure by now you’ve realized you did not get the life you were expecting.

You can react to that in two ways — you can hold your breath and turn blue waiting for the life you expected to emerge. Or you can adapt, overcome, and be open to the possibilities of a different life.

Take your pick.

If you choose the first option, you’re going to spend a lot of time being disappointed and, well, literally blue. If you don’t first pass out from asphyxiation, you’ll probably expire from self pity. Measuring every day by The Loss is a recipe for misery. Other people are whole, but not me… I have The Loss. Nothing will ever be the same since The Loss. (That’s probably true… and so what?)

If you don’t get the life you were expecting, good luck trying to control the outcome. This is the mentality that feeds the Reconciliation Industrial Complex. Just try harder! Feed your sense of failure and send me $399 and I will affair proof your marriage for you. Did you not follow the program? Well, I think that’s your fault. I will not refund your $399 — you failed.

If you would like to spend your life measuring yourself by the standards of the Reconciliation Industrial Complex, please go right ahead. Internalize that marriage is the measure of your worth. What kind of marriage? Doesn’t matter. Just stay married and shut up, okay? Don’t be one of those pathetic divorced people who fuck up their children with their selfish, selfish divorces. Don’t be one of those sad single people who will die alone with cats. Don’t you know everyone is a cheater and all the good people are gone? You have to work with what you have, and so your spouse is a bit of a fixer upper. Well, so are you. In fact, it’s your very inadequacies that drove them to an affair in the first place. Spend the next several decades of your life working on that, and I’m sure eventually a unicorn will appear.

What? They left? What? You quit?

Loser.

—-

Or you can take the second option. Adapt, overcome, and be open to the possibilities of a different life.

If you take the second option, it’s going be difficult. Mostly, because people who don’t get it (which is the majority of people) will measure you by the first option — that you could’ve controlled this and you failed. So part of your job is to prove to yourself and those morons that they’re really fucking wrong. Because you’re MIGHTY. And it’s going to be difficult because it is an actual Loss. And you’re going to grieve about that. Grief isn’t self pity. They’re two very different things. Grief is coming to terms with a different life than the one you expected. Self pity is very much about staying stuck on the injustice. Yes it was unjust. Okay, and NOW WHAT? Self pity answers, “It was UNJUST!” Okay, and now what? Self pity is on a loop, it just feeds on itself and doesn’t get out much. Self pity is simply awful on dates.

So, let’s just establish that adapting, overcoming and being open is fucking DIFFICULT.

Apparently, I haven’t been sending that message very clearly because according to Gio (I did read some of my comments in the last four days while I was out of town, folks) — I believe life after divorce is magically falling in love at a blues festival. Oh, it’s easy for ME to say, move on and be open to the possibilities from my cushy, smug position as a Superior Married Person who doesn’t understand the slings and arrows of outrageous singleness.

I believe it was also said that I don’t know what it’s like to be single at 50, 60 and I judge from my 40-something armchair, and I think someone added that widowers who date too soon are dreadful beyond measure. Oh, and women have it harder in the dating world.

Folks, this isn’t the pain Olympics here. Whoever you are — woman, man, gay, straight, bi — someone’s got it worse than you’ve got. I guaranfuckingTEE it. Is it hard to date at 60? I’m sure it is. It’s also fucking hard at 30 with a toddler and an infant. Or in your early 40s with two divorces (raising my hand). This shit is no picnic for men either. How would you like to paternity test your children, or share them with psycho mom and her rotating cast of scary boyfriends? Please shut the fuck up about how you’ve got it worse. You’re in pain. I get it and I’m sorry. But your pain does not supersede others — that’s the mentality cheaters have. Don’t be that person. Know that you’re a voting member of Chump Nation and we don’t need the particulars of your special exceptionalism.

On the widower comment — you think that guy is too dreadful to date? So disrespectful he is to his hardly-cold-in-the-grave-wife? Take a pass then. There are a lot of women who’d be happy to have him. My friend Yoma was one of them. She remarried at 76 and her widower husband was 73. Did he move too soon? He’d been nursing his dying wife for TEN YEARS. He was depressed and met my friend at the retirement home she’d just joined and invited her to join the photography club. They’re going on their second anniversary, traveling around, happy as can be. They busted a move on this commitment thing. In your 70s, they figured, you don’t have a lot of years left.

Oh, that’s scandalous. He should’ve sat alone in his room nursing vodka tonics committing to the memory of his departed wife.

It’s not scandalous. It’s reinventing your life from the expected path.

Which is what I want you to do. Say YES to the invitation to join the photography club. Not because I want you to date and partner up again (although if that happens to you, mazel tov!) — but because I want you to GAIN A LIFE. Be OPEN to the world. Quit looking back at what you were cheated of (a narcissistic loser) and start captaining your own ship.

As to my smug, married 40-something ass? I know what it is to have your nose pressed against the glass of other people’s Perfect Intact Family Lives. I lived most of my 30s and early 40s as a single mother. Going to every school event alone. Hearing about other people’s Disney vacations. Going on dates, being rejected. (I remember one guy who looked like a potato — seriously, a POTATO, lumpy, oval-shaped, pock marked — dismissing me most clearly as Not What He Expected or clearly felt entitled to. Like… oh, you showed up. Ew, send it back.) Chump matrons in your 60s with 30 years of married life? I’m the single mother you never invited to your dinner parties. I know from suckitude.

I also know what it is to reinvent yourself. I know what it is like to suffer a divorce, find the strength to be open to life, recommit to another human being, move my life for them and discover they’re a serial cheater.

Did I come out of that nightmare going — oh, all the good ones are gone! I’m a 40-something two-time loser. Hang it up.

Sure, there were many days I felt like that. But I built a good life for myself anyway. Had a lovely home, raised my kid, grew my garden — and I knew something I did NOT know after my first divorce — this life was ENOUGH. It was hard won. It was peaceful. It was full and I was happy in it. I had no expected life plan. Maybe I’ll get a boyfriend, a friends with benefits. Maybe I’ll never have sex again and it will be enough to just plant oriental lilies. Who knows?

There is a freedom that comes when you’ve got nothing to lose. When you’ve lost it all anyway. It was that what the fuck attitude that took me to New Orleans, Sacred Mecca for the What The Fuck Saints of Nothing to Lose. An openness. A lack of smugness. An attitude that enjoys the moment and embraces possibilities. That drinks rum hurricanes and falls in love.

Does the story end there? Tracy gets her Happy Ending and everything is restored? No. Every happy ending has a steep price of admission. There was moving a life, there were painful goodbyes, there was my house flooding, there was blending teenagers and resulting drama, there was sick parents, and general life crises. But being a MIGHTY chump, being one of the WTF Saints of Nothing to Lose — I knew I’d seen worse. I knew I could get through it. And I knew I could reinvent if I had to, because I’ve done it all before.

I did NOT get the life I expected. And thank God for that. What I have is so much more joyful and interesting. And it’s authentic. I don’t eat shit sandwiches any more. I don’t keep up appearances. I won’t be nursing a narcissist after a health crisis, and he won’t be abandoning me in mine. I don’t try to resuscitate dead things. I live life open to the possibilities.

You chumps are tough motherfuckers. Happiness is yours if you’re brave enough to invent some for yourself. I have no idea what shape that will take for you, just like I had no idea what shape it would take for me. (Texas?! Really God? REALLY?!) But I know that it is out there. And I know it doesn’t live with your cheater and your past life.

So embrace the new life. Good people still exist. How do I know? Because my smug, married 40-something ass says so.

Subscribe
Notify of

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

440 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Red
Red
9 years ago

I know two women in their 70’s who divorced their cheating husbands 30 years ago. They are STILL stuck in The Loss. It’s all you ever hear about with them, how their man “done them wrong” 30 years ago. Bitter doesn’t begin to describe it.

I was SO afraid of turning out like that.

But not anymore. With a BIG thanks to CL and my fellow chumps, I’m slowly picking up the life that I abandoned all those years ago when I married XH…and it feels AWESOME! I can’t wait to see what happens next… 🙂

An English Lady
An English Lady
9 years ago

Hear, hear Chump Lady!

I would add to this – STOP SEEING BEING PARTNERED-UP AS A GOAL. There are great times out there to be had just as yourself, as an individual – not as half of a partnership.

We are so lucky in this day & age, that we don’t have to be married to exist as a member of society. Yes, I know I whine from time to time that I’m not invited to dinner parties & I’m exempt from things that seem to make married people uncomfortable if I turn up on my own – but I still have a happy & fulfilling life. For fellow women chumps, let’s throw off the shackles of our female forbears and revel in the freedom we have. If you think you can only be happy as part of a couple, then you need to think again. You should be able to be happy just as you – because if you can’t, then you are always going to be trying to plug a hole in yourself with someone else & that isn’t fair to either you or the hole plugger!

So endeth the lecture from small sceptic isle on the east side of the pond! (We’ve just had a bank holiday weekend, the sun shone & I’m feeling perky.)

horsesrcumin
horsesrcumin
9 years ago

Ab-so-fucking-loot-lee English Lady. Ditto and loud applause!

And thanks CL. We often need reminding to get out of that pity pit. Bitter is my biggest fear, and it is definitely a squatter in my head far more than it should be. Awesome post!

Nord
Nord
9 years ago

Absolutely agree with you, English Lady. I’m not sure I want to be with anyone ever again anyway. But even if I reach the point where I want that, it’s not going to be the focus of my life. It never was when I was younger and it just happened that the ex came along and I feel in love.

But I do understand the fear and pain and uncertainty of facing life alone, particularly at a certain age. We laugh about cat ladies but many don’t want to be one. I do, to be honest, but many don’t.

Bring on the kitties!

Lee Ann
Lee Ann
9 years ago

This is what I thought yesterday as I read all the talk about there only being losers out there to date. What if Susan doesn’t want to have someone new in her life? What if she just wants to be alone? What is so wrong with that? I knew that I wasn’t meant to be alone and had no desire to be alone so I started the dating process. Yup … kissed a whole bunch of frogs before I found my prince. I didn’t ask to be divorced. Didn’t see my life headed that way, but when my H decided to pull the cheat card and proceeded to ask for a divorce, I walked away and figured out how best to live my life and fulfill my dreams. Not saying I didn’t have a pity party once or twice, but soon realized that all that gets me is nowhere. Everyone must figure out for themselves where they want their life to be and then do whatever it takes to get themselves there. Thanks English Lady for pointing this out.

Tonya
Tonya
9 years ago

So true. Anyway, there are so many miserable couples out there. I see them in restaurants sometimes. You can sense the resentment, the silences and awkwardness between them. It’s as if they’re just staying together out of spite. There is such pressure out there to be part of a nuclear family and the mainstream media adds to it with their depictions of perfect families and how they ought to be.

Hold your heads up chumps and be proud of your truth and authenticity. Nice if you can get partnered but not the end of the world if you don’t.

Edie
Edie
9 years ago
Reply to  Tonya

Since being separated and talking to friends I’m finding more and more people just stay together b/c it’s easier and more people than I knew have just “so so” marriages/partnerships and they’re not good.
They all hide it well.
I see those couples places, too.

Carol
Carol
9 years ago

Wow. Didn’t see this coming. Remind me not to share my feelings here again.

Lovebeingachump
Lovebeingachump
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

There a lots of sites out there that will allow you to continue to feel sad. There are a few that will help you get up to your knees. Then some will help you stand.
This one..it helps you walk and run. Not ready to walk and run yet? That’s ok, no one said you had to today or any day. What I get out of yesterday and today – it is not hopeless unless you choose to make it that way. Each one of us haschosen on some days to live as if it is hopeless – AND THAT’S OK for a bit. But I for one, don’t want to waste my life feeling that way and I’m 55, I’m not 30. I was with the same asshat for 31 years. I lost those years. Yes, there was good stuff during that time. But HE chose to make it be over. If I die tomorrow, alone, it will still be better than in the arms of someone who lied and cheated on me. I’m worth more than that and you are too.

RNE is going though the big D and I don't mean Dallas
RNE is going though the big D and I don't mean Dallas
9 years ago

“If I die tomorrow, alone, it will still be better than in the arms of someone who lied and cheated on me. I’m worth more than that and you are too.”

Like x1000. There are so many people on this site who give me strength just by being strong themselves. You’re awesome.

Uniquelyme
Uniquelyme
9 years ago

Staying stuck is extremely painful and in my case, it became my normal. CL’s site was my 2×4 and I will forever be grateful.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

You’re not being singled out. A lot of people really reached out to you yesterday. Don’t be offended. 🙁

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

We know you are walking a hard road. We just don’t want you to give up. There is so much to love in the world.

4evertrue
4evertrue
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

This.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Yeah, because no one shows any compassion around here.

Puh-leez.

Given the perspective of a couple of years, most chumps will tell you that the best advice they got hit them like a 2×4 to the forehead. Good advice is rarely easy to hear. It was my experience that when I bridled with special intensity at a suggestion by my shrink (e.g., stop trying to tell your wife who can spend the night at your house, stop trying to prevent your kids from living full time with their cheater-mom, etc.) it was a signal that I really needed to examine what I was doing. Think of how a doctor finds where the injury is by palpating and waiting for the reaction to pain.

Like CL said, this sh*t is hard. And painful.

But avoiding the pain of self-examination, IMO, is the best way to stay stuck.

Carol
Carol
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Thanks nomar, for assuming that I don’t know how to self-exam. You don’t even know me. There’s nothing I’ve ever posted here that could even remotely allude to any inability to self-exam.

ThatGirl
ThatGirl
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Carol, I don’t think that’s what nomar meant at all.

People just don’t want you to feel ganged up on. Cheaters have already made all of us feel shitty, no reason for you to feel that way here.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, I get it. We all do. We’ve all been there, and are either doing that or have done that, and we’re either wearing the t-shirt or it’s on order.

It’s damned not fair that we wasted years of our life. Years that we can never get back. We wasted earning potential, and healthy and beauty, that we cannot regain. And for what? Cheaters and liars.

There really aren’t words to really explain how much it hurts to realize that you’ve been had and left holding the bag. There were so many days I wished for a do over, even now I wish I could go back in time and go this way instead of that. But we can’t. The only thing we can do is well, soldier on.

I so get that sometimes the reality of what has been lost is overwhelming, and not even a gallon of Hagen Daz will make it better. But this is the only place I’ve seen that is safe for chumps, a place where everyone is on the virtual couch next to you nodding their head. Don’t be upset with the chumps that had 2×4’s, they only want to help. Stay, and pass me your bowl so I can give you a fresh scoop of ice cream.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

It’s not that I think that you can’t “self-exam.” Rather, it’s that it seemed to me you were taking sincere and solid advice as getting (as you say elsewhere) “beaten up.” That’s confusion that’s worth clearing up, I think.

It also seems to me that you’re accusing CL and lots of really good folks here of malice toward you, which I think you might not really mean. I can’t think of any place in the real or virtual world where there is more good will toward the victims of infidelity at this site. And I tend to think you agree else you wouldn’t be here.

Wishing you strength and peace.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Nomar, what works for You doesn’t necessarily work for EVERYONE… Carol is Stating it Doesn’t Work for HER. And Resents Being made to feel a “Freak” because she needs something GENTLER.
She is not You * or US* and We are not HER…. Period. she shouldn’t be made to feel Bad for voicing what’s True for HER.

and you Know What..There will ALWAYS be Critics. Whether it’s your Delivery, Your Tone, Your Capitalisation..WHATEVER.

Take what you can Use, Leave What you Can’t.

Defying Gravity
Defying Gravity
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Yes, that 2×4! One in particular I remember from my counselor was to “become hopeless.” The hope was keeping me stuck. And I KNEW there was no hope. I really turned a corner within a few days of hearing that. (That was months ago, though. I have long lost that particular “hope.” Now I think, “no thanks! I have better things to hope for!”)

nomar
nomar
9 years ago

“become hopeless.”

Love that! So peaceful to live in reality.

ThatGirl
ThatGirl
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

“most chumps will tell you that the best advice they got hit them like a 2×4 to the forehead. Good advice is rarely easy to hear.”

This is so true.

The message CL gave in this post was a needed one. It wasn’t meant to single anyone out, but just to tell everyone to snap the hell out of it, lest you get stuck.

I’m guilty of getting stuck. Hell, the last years of my sham of a marriage was all because of was stuck. Afraid of losing all that I had invested into a shitty marriage. I didn’t want to be divorced, to fail. I would be damned if I would put in this hard work and let some whore have a new improved him. All that was – just me trying to control the outcome, wasting time, trying not to fail. Blech.

There was a poster once on one of the pro marriage websites I visited that posted something similar to CL’s post. Basically that life isn’t fair. You can’t control it what happens, And yes sometimes they do get away with it and no karma bus runs them over to your satisfaction. And yes, you may end up alone with 100 cats. But that you shouldn’t worry or fixate on it, just make the most of what you have and try to be happy. That’s the best chance for a good outcome for you.

I kept going back and reading that post again and again, until I couldn’t find it anymore. It’s message, like CL’s is scary, but true – and we all need to hear it.

Carol
Carol
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I’m the odd person who is very sensitive. I don’t respond well *at all* to so called 2×4’s, never have, never will. My emotional self feels they are unkind. I find it amazing that so many people do respond to them. But, whatever, to each their own, always, and I’m glad that so many people found inspiration in today’s 2×4 post. It’s just not something that motivates me. I feel deflated, misunderstood, and mocked by it.

The flip side of that is, I am someone who is very understanding of other people’s hurts and pains. There is a place in the world for people like me, people who feel that 2×4’s are harsh, and it will be nice if I don’t get replies that imply I need to recover from my sensitivity. I don’t, and I know that when my funeral is held, people will be lined up to tell my children that they will always remember that I was someone who could be counted on to understand their feelings, and to offer healing words, even when other folks were frustrated with them and their feelings. Just the other day, a young man was upset at work about a break up. EVERYONE, without exception, was going on and on about how inappropriate it was, how he needed to move on, how he needed to not be like that at work, bla bla bla. Not one person was THERE for him. Lots of 2×4’s. All he needed in order to get through the night without being upset was one person who said, “I know it hurts. You will get through this. What can I do to help?” I was that one person. He got through the night. He will remember how he got through the night and it wasn’t the 2×4’s that did it for him. Thank God for sensitive people.

I also, once again, feel totally stunned at how many assumptions people make from these on line interactions. Someone responded to my post that I didn’t know how to self-examine. Excuse me? How in the fuck can someone know that from anything I’ve posted here PLUS the FACT that they don’t know REALLY know anything about me? I also noticed that more than a few of today’s posters seem to believe that a bunch of yesterday’s posters are desperate to find a mate, just because we posted about our grief about losing one. Newsflash: The two things are not related. You CAN lose a mate, and then NOT BE desperate to get another one. I don’t know. I’m just the odd person who gets nothing beneficial from being slapped upside the head. I’m not stuck between the past and the future and it is presumptuous for anyone to assume that from what little gets posted here. But, this is not my first rodeo with this on line bullshit. I know that when you post something on line, people and their prejudices and viewpoints get to working overtime, and the next thing you know, they think they’ve got you figured out, by God, and they are going to set you straight. Then, out come the 2×4’s. You’d think I would have learned my lesson. Don’t post. Just keep it all in, because someone is going to get their exercise jumping to conclusions, telling you what you are and aren’t, what you can and can’t do well (self-examine, for instance), and whatever else they can imagine from a few words on a computer screen.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

I agree, Carol. All types of assumptions, with no real knowledge about the person, sometimes.

UnderConstruction
UnderConstruction
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Carol (and anyone else who misses their x),
As someone who is still getting emotionally slapped down occasionally by my x (not physically), even though we’ve been apart for a long time and currently live in different states, I think that you’re probably SO much better off away from someone who can hurt you by cheating on your trust and love and friendship. You seem like a kind and loving lady who deserves so much better from a supposed best friend.

I sincerely wish you a joyful and peaceful and unexpectedly adventurous future. 🙂

UnderConstruction
UnderConstruction
9 years ago

Also, check out Abraham Hicks talks on youtube if you want a quick turnaround.. I’ve been amazed at how much they helped me at any mood. Just search “Abraham Hicks” in youtube search. Hopefully posting that isn’t offensive in any way. I really have found it super helpful and just want to help others, too.

notyou
notyou
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Carol: “I also, once again, feel totally stunned at how many assumptions people make from these on line interactions.”

Carol, I feel the same way about the letters that come in. They are sketchy, superficial, and give no clue as to the personal strengths and weaknesses of the individual writing the letters. It is all good and well to advise leaving a cheater. In many cases it is probably the best advice. HOWEVER, separating from the cheater is only the first step, and so many people who never learned how to be assertive or to set boundaries drop the ball on effective follow through. Which is why there is absolutely no substitute for individual divorce counseling when dealing with a life crisis of this magnitude.

FYI, I was the one who commented about the armchair quarterbacking. Since I have a thick skin, it doesn’t bother me that Tracy took exception to it. About the only response I would make is to amplify the comment to include people of all ages. Each age comes with its own unique set of circumstances; and as I said yesterday there is something called “opportunity cost” to consider along with your individual tolerance for ambiguity and uncertainty…. no matter what your age.

That having been said, the fact remains that people who are past 60 and approaching retirement age, particularly women who have stayed home and don’t have bankable professional skills, are starting over 20-30 years later than people who are younger.

Anyone significantly younger can say all day long what they will NEVER do, but I have seen people eat their own words too many times to believe that one-size-fits-all solutions are appropriate or that people don’t change. They do. There are simply too many variables at work in each unique situation.

I’ve been married twice, too. First divorce at 25 (after 7 years) and, second divorce at 61 (after 33 years). Trust me: For myself and many others whom I know, the length of bonding time with a spouse significantly affects the emotional recovery, and the amount of good, physically healthy years left to recover and re-establish financially are much bigger factors when one is older. And the odds of being successfully mated (if that is a priority with one) are diminished for older women in particular.

Carol, I understand it taking you longer to grieve and recover than it might take some others. I also understand your uncertainty and apprehensions about whether or not you will be able to rebuild your life into a content one. I can also appreciate your dismay at getting what you consider to be a, “dressing down.” If I didn’t learn anything else from my years of work, I did learn this much. When we want to help someone grow and change, we must first validate their pain. We don’t have to approve of how they are coping at that time, we don’t have to agree with how they are expressing their pain, and we can clearly see that the individual is not going about problem solving in an effective way; but if we don’t convey empathy, they aren’t going to hear much of what we say except the parts that make them feel diminished. Not only do we lose the opportunity to help them navigate out of the “pity party,” we can drive them away. For some people, getting really pissed off helps galvanize them. For others, a gentler more introspective problem solving approach or a “discovery method” works best.

Take care of yourself, Carol, and keep on keeping on. You are much more resilient than you realize.

heartbroken
heartbroken
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

What the fuck is a 2×4??

Deborah
Deborah
9 years ago
Reply to  heartbroken

It’s what a cheater hits you with!

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  heartbroken

A 2×4 is blunt advice that is painful and shocking to hear, so much so that it feels like you’ve been hit in the head with a 2×4 (a piece of lumber).

heartbroken
heartbroken
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Aaa, makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. Sorry to wait an entire day to bombard with my commentary.

fallulah _G
fallulah _G
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Hugs Carol 🙂

Carol
Carol
9 years ago
Reply to  fallulah _G

Thank you fallulah. 🙂 I needed a hug!

berdawn
berdawn
9 years ago

Holy fuck, CL! THANK YOU for this. As always, you write wise words but today, I really needed this. I’ve been throwing myself a tasteful pity party and this is just the ticket to take off my none-too-festive sadness sombrero and pay some fucking attention to all the good shit in my life and start figuring out what is worth grieving and just needs to be chucked the hell out.

Joy-filled chump
Joy-filled chump
9 years ago

I love this. I allowed myself time to grieve what I lost but I am grateful for what I have. And yes, someone always has it worse. From where I’m sitting, I only lost a marriage and a lying, cheating husband. HE LOST MORE.

RNE is going though the big D and I don't mean Dallas
RNE is going though the big D and I don't mean Dallas
9 years ago

Yes he did! Mine did too. I almost feel sorry for him…almost.

Red
Red
9 years ago

Mine lost more as well. He’s just now beginning to realize it… Ha!

Lee Ann
Lee Ann
9 years ago

Thank you CL. I read some of those posts yesterday and I thought to myself, “Way to give Susan hope there.” I left feeling depressed and sad for all of them so I can only imagine how Susan must have felt when she checked in. Did any of them stop to think that perhaps their attitude had something to do with their lot in life? Did they stop to think that they could actually embrace where they are in their lives instead of complaining about it? Could they be happy that they are no longer the chump of some fucked up mindless idiot? I appreciate your candid post today. I started to write a reply yesterday, but mine would not have been as well received as yours will be. Thanks for putting my thoughts to paper today.

Diana L
Diana L
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

CL, I don’t think your post today was encouraging and supportive. It seemed to me more like scolding someone. I think you got caught up in the argument over who has it worse. It’s a difficult one that comes up in a lot of contexts, but I think it’s best to side-step it by simply saying that some people have it worse than others, but it sucks for everyone.

SeeTheLight
SeeTheLight
9 years ago
Reply to  Diana L

I agree. I readily acknowledge that many of the chumps here had it way worse than me and for a variety of reasons: horrendous abuse, abandonment, age (young or old), disabilities, illnesses, pregnant, mothers of young children, SAHM out of circulation through no fault of their own, etc…. Carol or Gio or myself, commenting to one of our peer group (Susan = 60 year old), that yeah it can really suck at times for an older woman, is in no way negating the experience of others or our desire to shed ourselves of the cheater like any other chump. I felt Carol’s and Gio’s comments were in context with the discussion and just another perspective that gave it balance. The consequences of infidelity and divorce don’t always conform 100% to the narrative: Leave a cheater/ Gain a life, at every given moment. Y’all have experienced the ebb and flow first hand.

Rose
Rose
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

hmmm. I have a really different take on yesterday’s comments. They were sad and poignant, at times, but there was lots of stuff that really resonated with me. I think we interpret things within the framework of how we are feeling. I think it can be relieving and almost relaxing to grieve. I know that I have entered the “depression” stage of grief because it hit me like a ton of bricks. I felt like I was frozen inside an ice cube, watching the world from really far away. But after a few days I learned there is a plus side to the depression stage. My pain is starting to feel fuzzy. It’s not so fresh and in my face. I started listening to meditation podcasts online. I started to do yoga. The depression stage has it’s healthy place in the process. It is helping me to feel like my X is far away- like he’s outside of that icecube and I’m frozen inside, happy for some peace. I feel like everything is slow, and a little fuzzy and I can only do basic, peaceful things. But, isn’t that ok? I don’t feel like yesterday’s comments were bad. I LOVED movingliquid’s. Sad is ok. Every stage of grief can help you move on.

NewHere
NewHere
9 years ago
Reply to  Rose

This is how I read yesterday’s comments as well. I went through several stages after I found out about x’s affair. I also had that “frozen” period, followed by deep despair.

I followed a few reconciliation advice books and sites for a few years, but never felt truly peaceful or happy inside.

Finally I found talks on youtube from Abraham Hicks that resonated with me and changed my thought processes and eventually, my general perspective on my future.

Very shortly after finding those Abraham talks, I found ChumpLady and it has been the friend who has just the right words to hug me or help me get up and run or to just to share a laugh because CLNation has the wise 😉 I only found CL about 2 weeks ago and it has helped me accelerate faster and with more humor than I would have on my own.

Many thanks, CL! And many blessings and much gratitude to my fellow (previous!) chumps.

NewHere
NewHere
9 years ago
Reply to  NewHere

Ugh.. CL, any chance that you could remove my name?? Damn auto fill! Thx!

UnderConstruction
UnderConstruction
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

SO MANY THANKS! Was rushing during my lunch and didn’t catch that error. I am actually a new member here, but on my phone it filled in as my real name. Yikes!

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Chump Lady, forgive me for being off topic but this is a hugely important issue. Today the hashtag #bringbackourgirls is trending on Twitter to bring attention to the more than 200 teenaged girls who were kidnapped from their school and who will potentially be sold like cattle for $12 each. Groups all over the internet are trying to bring attention to this horrific situation and to free the girls. A change.org petition is being circulated: http://www.change.org/petitions/over-200-girls-are-missing-in-nigeria-please-help-find-them-bringbackourgirls Don’t know if a link will show up here, but if 400 of your followers could sign and encourage their friends to sign, well, that’s an army of signatures. Thanks for all you do here. You are saving my life and many others.

UnderConstruction
UnderConstruction
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

Signed, thanks. I can’t imagine their or their family’s or their community’s heartaches these days.

no more free cake
no more free cake
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

Thanks Moving Liquid for sharing that website for the missing Nigerian girls. I have been following the story and it is so tragic and sad. I signed the petition and I will share the website with several people, and if we all could do the same, maybe we can make a difference. Also, we must pray for their safe return and pray for their families during this very troubling time.

Patsy
Patsy
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

Actually, what those desperate parents need more than signatures, is MONEY. The government and army are doing nothing (Nigeria is a complicated mixture of Christian and muslim) and they have run through their savings. The parents know where their girls are, but Boko Haram are heavily armed.

Jerseygirl
Jerseygirl
9 years ago
Reply to  Patsy

You know, it was the girls in Nigeria that I first thought of this morning when CL said there are always people who have it worse than us, on any given day. It really helps when we are stuck in our self pity or inertia or fear, etc. to be able to look outside of ourselves and appreciate that all people have some challenge or pain or concern, most that we have no knowledge of. The things that we share on this site, our loss, our grief, our worries – all valid. But it IS a two parter – then what? Change happens when we are motivated to make the changes, and sometimes we need a nudge. Hell, nothing like being left for another woman/man to help with that! But do we take control of our own life then, or do we stay sad and victimized? Everyone has their own timetable, in truth, and there are good days, and bad days. I like to think that everyone here wants the best for each of us, and I for one appreciate the wisdom and eloquence of all of you, every day. I appreciate your COURAGE.
So yes, on our discouraged, maybe lonely and scared days, remember those Nigerian families, and count your blessings, and be motivated to move forward and make your life the best it can be, and reach out to the suffering in the world as well. It’s a great equalizer.

Chumplady’s post today reminded me of that scene in the Lion King when Rafiki hits Simba in the head…. 🙂

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

signed. thanks.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

CL: “Every liberation campaign is painful.”

Which got me thinking about these quotes:

“The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value. I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress and grow.”

“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.”

“It is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving, it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.”

“Let them call me a rebel and welcome. I feel no concern from it. But should I suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.”

“The mind once enlightened cannot again become dark.”

And,

“We have it in our power to begin the world over again.”

Oprah writing about personal growth experiences? Nope. Thomas Paine. Writing about the American war for independence. Huzzah, CL!

Jade
Jade
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Awesome quotes, nomar. I am a big fan of Thomas Paine. His pamphlet Common Sense is the ultimate breakup manifesto.

betrayedFriend
betrayedFriend
9 years ago

Wow! Just Wow! You made me cry of happiness, because I get it! I truly get it!

Just this weekend I had a self pity day – because of the financial mess I’m in now, but I did pull myself out of it, and applied for a whole bunch of second jobs – to work some nights and weekends. I got to do- what I got to do – to survive and make a better life for me.

I know that I am a tough Chump, I’ve done many, many things that I never thought I would do on my own, and I really am proud of myself. Yes, it definitely is not the life I envisioned, but I really do believe that God/Universe has an even better plan for me.

Fuck him! not only will I survive this shit. I will thrive!

Thank you for your continued inspiration!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  betrayedFriend

Yay! See? That’s how you have to look at it. Horrible shit happens everyday all over the world. I had to realize that myself so I wouldn’t get mired down by what happened to ME. Every day I wake up and I’m amazed at how happy I am, when I thought for sure I’d never smile again.

I don’t give a damn if I ever pair up again. I’m just grateful to be happy on my own.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago

I’ve only recently discovered this website, CL, and found it a breath of fresh air. I was reading a lot of blogs by women who were cheated on and more often than not they stayed with their spouse and it began to make me resentful because my cheater threw me to the curb.

I’m 56 and from a generation (or perhaps just mindset) that I am not whole if I’m not in a relationship. Because of that I’ve had four marriages and made a mockery of the “institution.”

I had never been cheated on until now and have found myself in really unfamiliar waters. But I feel that this is a lesson I have needed to learn my whole life: how to be whole BEFORE I enter into a new relationship.

Finally I am too broken and hurt (and frankly too old) to rush headlong into the next relationship. Finally I am working on only myself and my physical and mental health. Finally I am taking it slow. Finally I am behaving with dignity.

Sometimes I’m terrified and panicked about my future and sometimes I feel true glimmers of hope. But all I can do is keeping finding out who I am after all these years of molding myself to someone else’s ideal.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

Oh, me too. All of it. I thought the pain would literally kill me. I started out doing a kind of private “pick me” dance; I was going to be so awesome he would see what he was missing. Then it turned into survival as the situation I was in crashed onto my head and I had to face a number of things stemming from my choice to be involved with a jackass. In my case, I started out just trying to get from one day to another without losing my own dreams. I’ve decided to have everything we/I dreamed about, the parts that mattered to me, only without him. Another thing I’ve done is to find ways to challenge myself: how physically fit can I be? How healthy can my lifestyle be? How soon can I finish the book I’ve been writing? When do I send it out to an agent? How can I get the gardens in good order and get the house painted on a budget? Setting goals, timetables, planning within my limited budget. Where do I want to be in five years? I don’t think of having expectations, but rather concrete goals that will get me ahead of the curve in terms of keeping up my little house, having a reliable vehicle, etc. I am tired of reacting to things. I always liked having a man around to fix things, but that is neither an option not something that would be good for me now. And leaning in to the need to be self-sufficient has let me feel my own power. It was a major triumph to get the car inspected and not have to do the brakes until I see if I can swing a new car to get me through the next 5 years without repair hassles (mine is 11 years old, pushing 200,000 miles). I still think of the month prior to DDay when the jackass had “changed” and the month after as the abyss, and it was hard to imagine that I would get through to the other side. But here I am, doing the things I love.

I wrote a poem about it called “The Cure for Heartbreak.” Here are the last lines:

Here is my cure for heartbreak:
Hope for what lies on the other side of winter and
Love for what is in front of us:
Bird and cat and deer and human
Star and moon, snow and sun.
Our own battered, still-beating hearts.
We have lost too much to turn away from what remains:
Everything our hearts and hands can reach
Gratitude for all that lives, all that has gone before
All that makes it through the dark.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

LovedAJackass, wow, I so appreciate your reply. I sometimes don’t give myself credit for what I have accomplished in the 7 months since DDay. First, I stopped a lifetime of suicide attempts when things go wrong. Second, I realized a large part of why I’ve been unhappy for years is that I’ve been fat for years. Yes, at first the dieting and exercise was to try to get him back, then it was an “I’ll show him.” But ultimately it became only for me. I weighed 267 seven months ago and now I’m at 202 and I swim five or six days a week. I see a counselor. I volunteer. I SHOULD be working full time, but it’s been ten years since I worked outside the home and I’m gun-shy. The volunteering is showing me I can show up, learn, and do a good job. It’s giving me the confidence I need to apply for jobs.
I don’t want to be a Pollyanna, but I need to hang on to the notion that, because I want love in my life, when I am ready I will find it. Meanwhile, taking care of me right now feels really good.
I loved your poem. Thanks very much for sharing it. Do you have a blog?

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

That is awesome, moving liquid.

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

Thank you, Arnold.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

“I don’t want to be a Pollyanna, but I need to hang on to the notion that, because I want love in my life, when I am ready I will find it. Meanwhile, taking care of me right now feels really good.”

I don’t think it’s Pollyanna at all to believe that you will find love again. I think a lot of people are so used to thinking negatively that thinking positively seems foreign, at least it was for me. Now I have dreams in my head that I allow myself to think about before I go to bed and everything seems attainable now whereas before, I battled a lot of self-doubt and negativity. I think a lot of that had to do with that asshat I was living with.

otos
otos
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Rumblekitty, You can find love again. I did, five years post divorce and after a year of online dating. Committing myself to the dating process was key in helping me to, as CL says, hone my picker. I am in my mid-50s and average looking. I met someone with whom I am just myself, and with whom I have no worries. Remember how stressful it was to live with a narcissist? Having several years by myself was key to reconnecting with myself and heeding the voice of reason in my head. That’s all I can add, just that it is possible.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

Ha, ha, it’s a lot longer. Someday I’ll post the whole thing somewhere. One of my summer goals is a blog, so I will let you know when it goes up. I know I need one for my academic work but also am thinking about a more personal one, where the poems can go.

So glad you are taking care of your health. 65 pounds in 7 months is awesome. Keep us (and for sure, me) posted on how you are doing. It took me 2 1/12 years to lose the first 20 but the last 20 have been post D-Day. You are killing it, as the kids say. I had never been overweight but I was in a marriage to an addict (not a cheater) and taking care of my mother and a bunch of other people. Living alone and now the weight falls off me. The weight of all those people. And the need to eat for comfort. It is amazing to have my body back. Such a basic thing. And you are on that powerful journey. And let me say: my therapist calls my suicidal thoughts my “end it all moments.” So I’ve been there, too.

I love your plan! One thing I did was start collecting “wise thoughts” about things like confidence on Pinterest. Just collecting and reading stuff when I thought that if one more f&%$ing thing broke in my house, I would lose my mind. So glad you are taking care of you!

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

When you’re ready make a WordPress blog. They’re easy to manage and very flexible and compatible. I started one after my D-Day. It was supposed to be all about health and fitness and rebirth, but after I found out my husband was with another woman then I had that to deal with too. I have no friends in real life, due to weird circumstances of moving around so much. But I have the love of my family. When I really need to get something unpleasant off my chest, it goes on the blog. I recommend blogs to all! http://movingliquid.wordpress.com

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  Moving Liquid

“I have no friends in real lifeI don’t either, Moving Liquid! You don’t live in Iowa by any chance, do you? 🙂

Moving Liquid
Moving Liquid
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

hah. No. Oregon. But thanks to the internet, we have one another here!

Psyche
Psyche
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

What a beautiful poem! Very precious words to live by. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. (I really hope it’s going to be in that book you’re publishing 😉 )

Sick of HER Chump
Sick of HER Chump
9 years ago

Thank you once again, CL. I have felt myself being ‘stuck’ lately with no idea how to move forward. I still don’t know the ‘how’ part, but I know the why. Thank you for reminding me that others have it worse, and I CAN and WILL have a better life.

slg188
slg188
9 years ago

This post rocked! Totally needed to be reminded of this. Love it!

kimmy
kimmy
9 years ago

If you are lucky enough to survive cancer, do you then sit back and watch your life go by?? Hell no!!!! You live your life more intensely. You pick up the pieces and thank your lucky stars that you still have a life to live!!!! We were all dealt a shitty hand in this divorce BS but thankfully most of us have come out the other side or are at least working to get there.

I have suffered a miserable existence for the past six years or so and I have finally crossed the finish line of the marathon of this divorce process! I deserve a happy life and I am not letting ANYTHING get in my way of that! I have proven to myself that I am one tough bitch and I can do just about anything I set my mind to. I am thankful every day for my two beautiful healthy daughters that my fucktard helped me make and I am thankful to finally be rid of him so I can begin a new chapter for myself! Is this the life I expected. NO! Did I really want to do this? NO! Is it going to be difficult? YES!!! But I can and will live a happy fulfilled life that is my own. NOTHING WILL STOP ME!!!!

I hope everyone here finds happiness and peace again! We all deserve it!

SingleAndFree
SingleAndFree
9 years ago
Reply to  kimmy

Amen!

Chumpectomy
Chumpectomy
9 years ago

Holy moly CL, how do you know exactly what I need to read EVERY SINGLE DAY?! You must be a Goddess ; )–my personal badass brilliant feminist Goddess! Thank you so much.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumpectomy

We had a helluva time taking a group pic with ChumpLady because she had a HALO! I kid you not! 😉

Thanks for this post Tracy, spot on!

SingleAndFree
SingleAndFree
9 years ago

Thank you CL! I needed to hear this today as well. I agree…our individual value does not lie in our pairings. There was a time when I believed 100% that it did. I don’t know what my future holds for me…and I won’t lie, the thought of perhaps spending the rest of my days alone does make me sad and scared at times…but you know what? I would much rather do that than “settle”. I have become open to what comes my way, and I have my boundaries now…I have worked on my picker..I know my deal breakers now…. I may not be 60…I’m 40…with four young children….and I have been on a few first (and last dates) where I have seen the expression on their faces when they found that out. As IF…I need a rescue…no thank you Jack…I got this….check please!

I think about the one line in Katy Perry’s song “Roar” (one of my favorites).
“I stood for nothing…and fell for everything” That was me. Now I finally know what I stand for…that means more to me than anything.
It’s easy to have bad days…bitterness can creep up on you…the important thing is to recognize that it is a feeling….and it does pass. I found that when I’m in the car and I’m driving alone….an emphatic “Fuck You!” in the air usually serves as a great release. 🙂
Then it’s back to business…..

Carol
Carol
9 years ago

It really feels that assumptions have been made from yesterday’s posts that probably aren’t true. Someone posts, “I feel sad” and that is perceived as “I’m not moving on with my life.” As someone who posted a lot about my grief yesterday, I find this insulting because those feelings I posted yesterday, those are just SOME of my feelings, and excuse the fuck out of me for not posting the rest of them, which probably would have stopped people from making incorrect assumptions about my life, my frame of mind, and what I stand for. So, just let me share, I could write a fucking book on moving on. I could. I’ve done more with my life post-infidelity than many women do their entire lives. And I am a good person, caring and loving and I don’t let the feelings I struggle with interfere with my life because I’m Not The Bitter Loser You Might Have Assumed I Am. I just happen to still feel grief about what my ex-husband, who I loved and respected, did. So sue me. I NEVER, EVER thought I’d be mocked here, of all places. I refuse to feel ashamed that, while I AM working hard at building a new life, I still hurt. I am disappointed at the way those of us who shared our valid and heart felt feelings have been misunderstood, (mis) characterized as “bitter” and mocked. Grief is a process people.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

True, Carol. It is not a terribly difficult concept that one can be sad yet still moving on and productive.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Carol,I really feel you are projecting judgement where there is none. Due to all your posts I re read also, I don’t see what you see. One thing I see clearly is that you do not engage with what anyone posts to you, unless you take great exception to their suggestions. You ignore everything else and post another monologue with the same issues phrased differently. I feel for your pain but you begin to resemble a concern troll. I hope you find a peace.

SeeTheLight
SeeTheLight
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Carol- I totally related to your comments yesterday as a 57 year old, and I am sorry I didn’t chime in at the time and validate them. The whole CL article centered around a 60 year old woman in limbo, so your comments were very germane. In fact the prevalence of long marriages headed for divorce has become quite a phenomenon and has only recently become the topic of articles and books this past decade. We aren’t asking for hook-ups and hand-outs, but our long years of “service” – birthing babies, being the woman of all work, nursing through illnesses, supporting spousal career choices and businesses while managing our own, mutually saving toward retirement, nearly achieving it when the rug is pulled out from under us, is its own kind of horror show. The challenges aren’t insurmountable or unique, they just come at a particularly vulnerable time when you have not 5-10-15 years “all-in” but 30+ years. And if you have children and grandchildren and their life events, you will continue to run the gauntlet of their well meaning commentary whether or not you have coupled up “with a nice man.” So go ahead and vent and grieve like everyone else here. It certainly is legitimate. —this too shall pass.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  SeeTheLight

Yes, we can’t get caught up asking if it’s worse to be chumped after 30+ years and left to face our supposed retirement years without the support of the life we have built or to be a young mother with kids not of school age watching the husband/father use his paycheck and the family savings to set up housekeeping with a schmoopie or to be a dad who has to watch the X move the married OM in with his kids. Or me–to have dodged a huge bullet because I wasn’t married but to have had my heart broken nonetheless. Reading the comments here is an education in how a percentage of the population is capable of deep cruelty and selfishness.

Mehphista
Mehphista
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

You are right, Carol, grief is a process, and we are all at different stages of it – I oscillate between Anger and Bargaining all the time. Sometimes what CL and fellow Chumps says is close to the bone, but I do not think anyone here is a loser, or offensive, just because they speak their truth about being at a stage I haven’t got to yet.

I loved and respected Mr Fab, too, and I got repaid with std, infertility, bankruptcy, gaslighting and emotional abuse, and I am trying to recover. And yes, grieving. I am not at the point of seeking out a new partner- I am working at gaining a life for myself and daughter (and it is really hard).

What we all have in common is that someone in our lives felt entitled to fuck around with our realities and sense of self, and we are all at different stages of recovery.

You aren’t a loser for grieving Carol, nor is anyone here. But CL has a point, it keeps you stuck, and focussed on the cheater-WHICH IS WHAT THEY WANT. I lost my entire reality- moved thousands of miles away from my friends, garden, house, cats and career. I look to the Chumps who are further along the path to ‘Meh’, because their experiences give me something to have faith in when every other aspect of my life turned out to be illusory.

If it takes the occasional 2×4 to the back of my head to realize that that ‘loss’ was actually a gift, and a second chance at a GENUINE life, then I will meet y’all in the lumberyard!

And let’s leave the ad hominem attacks to the Narcs, Cheaters and Sparkly turds….I validate what you are saying, Carol, but I also understand from reading this post that focussing on what has been ‘lost’ is likely to prevent me from seeing what has been gained, and what potential there is for me out there. I would love to find another, nice Chump to settle down with, but I have more pressing concerns like employment, accommodation and single motherhood. I am not saying this in a ‘my-pain-is-uglier-than-yours’ way. That is just where I am at with it. Yep, the grief sucks.

But it sounds to me, like everyone else in Chump Nation, that you are dealing with it how you need to, as are we all.

And that is okay.

I Am A Rock Star*
I Am A Rock Star*
9 years ago
Reply to  Mehphista

A few months ago today’s post would have seemed too hardlined and harsh for me. Today, it’s like a little motor under my ass to push me towards remembering that I’m responsibe for my happiness whether I say married or not. So today it’s empowering. And I had my std blood work done today and didnt have a breakdown. What I see here is support for all different stages.

Because my kids have been very affected by the cheating, I’m going to copy today’s post, edit it so it speaks to my 16 year old son (delete the widowers eg) and send it to him. We all have our pity parties and there’s nothing wrong with that – I want to teach my son that we have choices even when it seems that the universe is pitted against us. Oh, the boo hoo navel gazing I’ve lost hours to in 4 months. No regrets though, it’s gotten my through this as opposed to around it.

I wish you happiness and peace carol, I mean that with all my heart.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Carol, you didn’t just post that you felt sad yesterday, posted this; ” I’m just angry. Really angry. It’s pretty safe to say that I’m so traumatized that I’ll never get over it. D-Day was 9-12-2005. This is what moving on means for me.”

I think if this is how you really feel, you could benefit from EMDR therapy to work through the pain, anger and grief. I saw other posts where you said you were fine being alone on a Friday night so I get it that maybe yesterday was a day you felt all this pain and today you do not. However, the quote above says that this is your normal. Chumpnation was only trying to help, we were not mocking you. ChumpLady is not mocking you. And, frankly you were not the only poster who felt defeated yesterday – this blog post is not all about you. Jedi Hugs if you want them.

Carol
Carol
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

I in no way believe that I was being singled out. If I made it seem like that, I want to correct that. I think that a lot of people are being taken to task with today’s blog post. I wasn’t the only one who was feeling sad yesterday, and made the what-seems-to-be-oh-so-stupid-mistake-of writing about about it. I do feel that I was being included in the group that this blog post was addressing, and that’s where I’m coming from.

I felt incredibly triggered yesterday by the posts that make it seem like getting a divorce is the best thing that ever happened. Sure, it’s great to be rid of a liar, I don’t deny that, and for the record, I would NEVER EVER take my ex-husband back, and if given the chance to do the Pick Me dance, I know I would have come to my senses, but, I guess I am just too much of a realist or something…I just had to pipe in and say it isn’t all wonderful. It’s hard. It sucks sometimes. THAT’S ALL. I NEVER said, “Stay married to the liar.” I don’t believe that.

I also never meant to get into a pissing match about who has it harder, and I don’t think I did. I’m not stupid. I know that everyone has it hard when it comes to this stuff. But, there’s different kinds of hard, and my perspective is not that it’s harder for some people as opposed to others but that we all need to see why someone whose experience is different from ours is still having a hard time. It is easy for the 60 year old woman to think that the 30 year old man has it easy. I appreciate reading about other people’s experiences because I learn from that and I develop empathy for people. Unfortunately, it appears that yesterday’s sharing was interpreted as a pissing match. I, however, never felt that. I never read a post written by the young mother with children and thought, “Gee, she thinks it’s harder to date when you have little children than it is to date when you are 60.” But, I see where that is what those of us who posted are being accused of thinking. I came away from yesterday’s postings knowing that we all have our private hell. And I guess I only share that with the people who put their selves out there yesterday and shared their deepest hurts, because clearly, today, I see that so many others think we were just pissing on each other’s experiences. I don’t get it.

I also resent the implication that yesterday’s posters included a bunch of people who believe that a happy ending or a happy life ONLY includes a mate. As if we were all dumped and now we are desperately trying to find a new mate. Do I wish I was in a healthy, stable, mutually satisfying relationship? Yes. Am I pursuing that? No. Do I think it is necessary to have a mate to have a good life? Hell no. I can feel lonely at times (when I’m digging a hole for a new tree, for example) but I have made the very healthy choice to not give a fuck about dating. If I happen to meet a nice man, in the course of my normal life (not likely, but whatever), great, if I don’t, that’s great too. I’ve got too much to do to worry about dating. My guess is that many of the other bitter posters feel similarly. That doesn’t, however, mean we don’t WISH we had a nice partner. I wish I would win the lottery too. Doesn’t mean much, no need to make the assumption that we’re all out here heartbroken because we are, gasp, single. For the record, I’m VERY PROUD of my single status. But, I have my moments when I wish there was a man around. However, I am making it on my own, and I’m the pride and joy of my children and grandchildren for doing so. My neighbors think I’m the bomb because of all that I do on my own. This is just another example of a simple thought posted turning into an assumption that just isn’t true.

I’ve had a particularly hard couple of weeks. A new grandchild was born premature. In order to be there for my daughter and her family, I’ve had to make choices that are causing me great financial hardship (being off work resulting in a loss of pay, boarding expenses for my dog, etc. etc.) and I’m on edge. I just came off of two anti-depressants. The anniversary of my former marriage is next week. I had to buy a new car, and while I like the car, I hadn’t planned to buy one and it is stressful to wonder how in the world I’m going to pay for it. My current state of mind is wrapped up in all of this.

Everyone is having a hard time. I just didn’t expect to log on today and feel so, I don’t know, beaten up, for expressing my feelings. This is what is so hard to begin with, feeling so beaten on by people who have no idea what we are going through. I really never expected it to happen *here*.

Walking It
Walking It
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Carol

I think I get where you are coming from….I am your age and our lives are very similiar. I came home from the hospital to an empty house and a post office box. There was no pick me dance. I never saw it coming (roses the Tueday before)….and I think the shock of it all takes it much longer to recover to “normal”…whatever that is.

I also understand why, after putting yourself out there, you feel so beaten on by people who have no idea what we are going through….that’s so true of blogs. Blogs simply aren’t the 1:1 conversation you have in an email thread or a conversation. It’s a group “stoning” some days. Don’t take it personal and if the advice isn’t relevant to you, helps you in some way, just toss it away and keep reading.

LilyBart
LilyBart
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Hi Carol:

We’ve all felt hopeless and down and can absolutely relate to your feelings. They’re no more or less valid than those people who are happily divorced. I’m somewhere in between those two states, and like to hear from everyone. What triggers you can empower me, and vice-versa. We’re all just trying to move forward.

I do hope things get better for you soon.

~LilyBart

Hoodwinked
Hoodwinked
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Carol,
I don’t think yesterday’s posts were much different than many other days where we hear, in depth, details of others’ sad or difficult stories. I would have felt similar today, taken it a bit personally.

With your full life with your job and grandchildren, it’s just sometimes we need to circle back and pick up threads of pain that still need to be stitched and there is something about the post menopause years which is such an adjustment as to how we see ourselves as women. Hugs to you. You too CL, love your fire.

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Carol..I was one of the pity-party people yesterday, and now I do feel bad for everything I posted. I didn’t mean to bring others down..that was not my intention at all. I feel like I did it all wrong by posting my heartbreak here, and not being supportive.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Carol, big hugs to you.

But feeling it doesn’t make it so. You haven’t been beaten up. People wrote things on a website. A website devoted to helping people in your situation. It’s being triggery that makes the one thing feel like the other.

Please understand that folks who post here really want the best for chumps everywhere.

fallulah _G
fallulah _G
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

” you could benefit from EMDR therapy to work through the pain, anger and grief.”

great suggestion! 🙂 seconded 🙂

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  fallulah _G

I’m a bit dumb today..can you tell me what EMDR therapy is?

fallulah _G
fallulah _G
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Sandy – I replied but it’s pending moderation – just to let you know 🙂

fallulah _G
fallulah _G
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Not at all Sandy! 🙂

It’s a little known therapy… and it probably sounds a bit hokey on first impression, but it is proven, and works *amazingly* (from personal experience).

http://www.emdr.com/general-information/what-is-emdr.html

You can find a local provider from the same site

http://www.emdr.com/find-a-clinician.html

🙂

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

My friends told me in January they would stage an intervention if I let the jackass back in my life. Big fat 2×4.

KarenE
KarenE
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

My 12 year old daughter said SHE’d leave me if I even considered getting back together with HER FATHER!!!

I didn’t need the 2×4 at the time, because I wasn’t the least bit tempted (turned out she was perceptive, though, because he did soon after try yet again to get me to give him another chance). But what a 2×4!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Nobody, not one person on this site, accused you of being a bitter loser. You received multiple responses from people trying to help you.

Actually your attitude in response to this help is rather insulting. Have a great day.

Patsy
Patsy
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Chill, Rumblekitty. When people are hurting and vulnerable, we just need to give them a bit of room and gentle acceptance. Tomorrow or next week, they won’t feel so bad.

Louise
Louise
9 years ago
Reply to  Carol

Please don’t think anyone was mocking you. You are in a very difficult situation and you are hurting. Your feelings matter and will be honored. I think what I was trying to convey is that as bad as it is, at least the bastard who hurt you can’t inflict any new wounds. There are far worse things than being alone, one of which is being married to a lying, cheating bastard. Getting to meh IS a process and it doesn’t happen easily for anyone.

AtomicFireball
AtomicFireball
9 years ago

I think some people equate moving on with no longer grieving. It’s ok to do grieve while you gain a life, if you need to. Exhibit A:

I finished my first half-marathon Sunday (joy)!
The ex came to watch (meh).
He brought the baby to see her mother in action (joy)!
I then went to breakfast with my friends (joy and protein)!

Afterwards, I went home alone (grief). I cried because I should have been able to continue to share the joy of the entire day at home with a loving husband and darling child (devastating grief).

So after my cry and my nap, I made a phone call. I went and watched a hockey game with a friend who was convinced that I would be too tired to move. But move I did! (joy)

Staying stuck, standing still or floating in limbo are not the answers. They are quicksand. Save yourself and GO GET YOUR JOY!

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
9 years ago
Reply to  AtomicFireball

Oh my! This is how I have felt the last several days or week… Difficult things and some emotionally hard things, then a really exciting thing that I have worked really hard for and it went well (yay!), but then the pain of not having a life partner to share it with hit hard after, and I am still trying to recover. So a big mess of joy and tears and pride and accomplishment that felt like a bit of a F you to my ex, followed by two times I almost-vomited (I thought that stage was over!!?), with some laughter and sharing and support thrown in too. Roller coaster indeed! Thanks for sharing that you too feel the same thing, because I’ve felt like a mess of emotions this last week….

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  AtomicFireball

Are you in Pittsburgh? Marathon and hockey!

AtomicFireball
AtomicFireball
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

I am indeed!

Scotty
Scotty
9 years ago
Reply to  AtomicFireball

I’m starting to think we’re the chump epicenter! 😉

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  AtomicFireball

Damn, you really are an atomicfireball! send me some of that energy, I feel lazy as all hell now! All I did was work and watch hummingbirds in between.

KarenE
KarenE
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Watching hummingbirds is a very healthy activity!! Do lots of it, it’s good for your brain!

Mehphista
Mehphista
9 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

There is one building a nest near my bedroom door.

🙂

lale
lale
9 years ago
Reply to  AtomicFireball

So many things seem backwards when there’s a young child. Mine’s 3. I have those moments. Great job on making yourself get up and out though! Every single time I have a choice of leaving my house and doing something, when I make myself go, I’m so glad I did.

ChumpedTwice
ChumpedTwice
9 years ago
Reply to  AtomicFireball

Congratulations on your first half-marathon. Running is my therapy.

I have also had the ex show up at races with our daughter and I experience the exact roller coaster ride of emotions. I get it.

Walking It
Walking It
9 years ago
Reply to  ChumpedTwice

Makes three of us. Oh I get it.

AtomicFireball
AtomicFireball
9 years ago
Reply to  ChumpedTwice

That’s why I love this place. Someone here always “gets it.”

Chumparama
Chumparama
9 years ago

I love you, ChumpLady. I knew this post was coming and was just waiting for it, because I am trying to move my ass out of the self-pity of living in my smug past full of Perfect Happy Family. Well, not for him it turns out. But there is something about just living in your expectations that is stultifying and we are sent to this hard and bitter school to learn it. Something about intention and self-actualization. Like, I thought I was self-actualized, but no, I was really co-dependent. Now, go back to school and learn what self-actualization really feels like. And living with intention. Keep up those lessons, ChumpLady. I’ve visited two lawyers but haven’t filed yet – I have to keep re-reading today’s post and I think I’ll get there.

I Am A Rock Star*
I Am A Rock Star*
9 years ago
Reply to  Chumparama

I’m guilty of the smug. In addition to shit sandwiches, I’ve been supping on humble pie. How dare I think I was above having the rug pulled out from under me. Pilates, housekeepers, shopping, groovy loyal spouse, mani pedi, lunch out, always being home when my children come home – those are not basic rights, they’re privileges I’ve lost. Now I make minimum wage in a shop while picking up side jobs hoping to get to financial independence regardless of whether I stay married or not. Of all my peers, I’m the only one to fall down this hole and lose my lifestyle. And I’m really okay with it, because I AM going to be okay. I’ve only been abandoned by one friend – everyone else has my back and cheers me on, so I know my friend picker is spot on.

heartbroken
heartbroken
9 years ago

Come again? Whether you’ll stay married or not? So are you considering staying?? Please say it ain’t so. Otherwise, i would then add you to the small list of women I know personally who’ve chosen what you’re describing: luxuries and high disposable income over dignity.

I Am A Rock Star*
I Am A Rock Star*
9 years ago
Reply to  heartbroken

I’m 4 mos out, pretty new, in another country with socialized everything. I can’t leave legally with my kids so I’m socking away cash (I’ve tossed all the above privileges so i can skim more). I have to be careful how I play this or I may be stuck somewhere I don’t want to be, forever. Away from my family and support. No crying pick me, I told h to go fuck himself, that the rules were mine to make now. He’s the remorseful idiot crying in the corner about the crappy decisions and psycho ow, I’m buying time to map out my life and take care of the kids – frankly, at this stage I can’t come up with health care, car, rent, 10k for a move, and he doesn’t legally have to let me cross the border w the kids. I’ve got to be careful.

He knows my plan to move back, so he’s been looking at switching jobs to move back as well. He’s may pull his head out of his ass, but I’ll have him finance my next chapter. Any luxuries I get from here on in will be the ones I pay for and not fr a looong time – I took every gift back and banked the cash, the jewelry and wedding ring are next (its not much). I feel like the woman I was 5 years ago, very empowered, definitely with more dignity than I had as I let shit happen cluelessly. The more I feel that way, the more contract work comes my way, from all over. So for the time being, this works for me, rushing to divorce isn’t the legal option I thought I had, and could really hurt me (not being close to my parents as they age) long term. I’m not looking at keeping the life I had by any stretch.

Hawk
Hawk
9 years ago

That sounds very level headed to me. You are brave.

Louise
Louise
9 years ago

I can’t speak for anyone else, but my final uncoupling was a relief! A huge weight was lifted; I no longer had to eat shit sandwiches for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I was no longer angry for reasons I didn’t even know. I know I am fortunate to be able to provide for myself and I definitely understand how that has made this transition easier for me. But I would have left ,even if it meant I had to eat oatmeal for dinner every night for the rest of my life. The emotional cost of my marriage was too great.

I learned a couple of things about myself after my marriage imploded. First, I enjoy being alone. I spent years taking care of everyone else. I am enjoying getting to know me, the me that got buried raising a large family. I don’t want to be responsible for another human being in any fashion. Sometimes I get lonely, but not very often, because I intentionally live a busy life. There is so much “out there”that I wasn’t able to enjoy when I was married.

Second, I am not the kind of person who obsesses on the unfairness of life. Is life fair? Fuck no! My brother lost his only son to a hit and run driver on Christmas Day; the driver was never caught. My 28 year old niece, who I helped raise, is dying of brain cancer as we speak. Now, that is fucking unfair to infinity and beyond. But there’s not a goddamned thing I can do about either of those things, except to be the best aunt/ sister I know how and that is what I am trying to do.

Our time on this earth is short. It is up to each of us to find peace where we can. One of my favorite sayings is,”Life has meaning only in the struggles. Truimph or defeat is in the hands of the Gods. So let us celebrate the struggles.” I’m not a religious person, but those words remind me to embrace it all, the sorrows in equal measure to the joys. Those experiences make us who we are…

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Outstanding, Louise .

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Wise words. And I am so sorry about your nephew and niece. There is nothing harder than losing a child, whether a child of the body or a child of the heart.

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  Louise

“I can’t speak for anyone else, but my final uncoupling was a relief!”
Ugh! I still really want to beat up Gwyneth Paltrow!! Conscious uncoupling my ass!

Louise
Louise
9 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Believe me, there was no “conscious uncoupling” here. Just alot of hard work getting to meh. There were times I never thought I’d get to this point, but I’m still standing, and damn proud of the fact that I did not let that asshole destroy me, my kids or my love of life!

Lunachick
Lunachick
9 years ago
Reply to  Louise

This is awesome. You are mighty!

Tonya
Tonya
9 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Sage advice Louise, “Is life fair? Fuck no!”

It really is not is it? You have just put things into perspective. So awfully sad about your brother’s son and your niece. You sound like a good and wise person.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Great post Louise 🙂

Edie
Edie
9 years ago

How is it that every post seems to come just when I need it? 🙂
Feeling pretty low the last few days that my life isn’t turning out like I wanted. Like I expected it would. That’s both good and bad. Wrestling with the changes and disappointments have been hard recently for some reason.

I know I’ll get to a better place but it just seems so far away right now.

Yesterdays admissions were kind of tough to read. I think what I decided was it comes down to standards. Anyone can get another person in their life – you see plenty of people bounce back super fast and they seem happy – but what is the quality like?

So you have to have standards and acceptance. You set standards for a relationship and you wait for it.
If it doesn’t come then you have to accept the life you build for yourself on your own terms.

Jay
Jay
9 years ago

First, this killed me — “I remember one guy who looked like a potato…”

I shared my story last week and was so heartened by the response of CL and the rest of the crew here. After my wife moved out, I threw myself even more full-on into being a father … and I was a pretty good one to start. My seven year old wants to have a half hour wrestling match on the bed every night when he stays with me? Check. My ten year old wants to shoot baskets for an hour after school with me? Check. We established a weekly “Sorry” board game championship with a title belt, entrance music, and a cast of competitors including their grandparents. It is a raucous time! I don’t let them get away with murder but I am there for them and they feel settled and loved when they are with me. My ex is still acting like a nitwit (“We don’t need to sit the kids down to tell them we’re divorcing. Don’t you think they already know?”) but I am powering through that. I will do what I think is best for the kids by myself if she refuses to do so.

A little while ago, I was introduced to a woman in the same circumstances as me — separated from a lizard-like cheater. A single parent with two children. She is outgoing, fun, and just all around lovely. We also spend a lot of time commiserating about what we’re going through. While being coupled isn’t necessary for happiness, there is a lesson here: there is someone out there who is like 9,000 times better than your ex, someone who won’t lie, cheat, and intentionally hurt you. If you’re considering reconciliation, just think about what you want to go back to. Chances are, it probably isn’t that great. And you know what? You deserve great.

lale
lale
9 years ago
Reply to  Jay

Amen. If you want to find someone, there’s a lot of great people out there looking, just like you are. That’s what I remind myself after every “potato” date from online dating 🙂 I’m great and I’m singe, there’s guys like me too. And in the meantime, I’m great and I’m always available to entertain myself 🙂

fallulah _G
fallulah _G
9 years ago

It’s a shame ppl would resent you your happiness – sheesh you earned it, and the freakin hard way!! Your marriage/situation gives me tremendous hope and peace of mind 🙂

And “Don’t be one of those sad single people who will die alone with cats. ”

STILL better than being with my ex lol 🙂

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
9 years ago
Reply to  fallulah _G

I love my cats! But I take the metaphor for what it is…don’t disengage from life.

fallulah _G
fallulah _G
9 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Yes understood – I just quite enjoy being a crazy cat lady 😉

lale
lale
9 years ago

Everyone needs good people in their life. Lose the a-hole cheaters, call (or find) a good friend, watch some Golden Girls, and think about what advice you would give Dorothy about Stan. I love the Golden Girls. I wish there were more shows about how great it can be to be single.

Sandy R
Sandy R
9 years ago
Reply to  lale

” Lose the a-hole cheaters, call (or find) a good friend, watch some Golden Girls, and think about what advice you would give Dorothy about Stan.”
There was an episode or 2 where Dorothy waffled a bit about going back to Stan. Ultimately she decided NOT to! Maybe those episodes will give us strength!

Louise
Louise
9 years ago
Reply to  lale

Golden Girls is what my friends and I aspire to! If we ever manage to pull it off, I know our house will be clean, there will be fresh flowers on the table, amazing food to eat, and a great bottle of wine ready to be uncorked. Our old folks commune for all the single ladies of a certain age. I truly think that is the future for me and alot of other women and I think it is going to be marvelous.

lale
lale
9 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Agreed! I’m in my 30’s with a 3-year old, and when I feel down about being single I think “I can’t WAIT until I’m old enough to be the Golden Girls” 🙂 I think the happiest I’ve been was single in my 20’s with roomies. To be older and wiser and single with roomies – bliss.

blue
blue
9 years ago

CL, great post and just what I needed. I was actually feeling a little depressed/worried after reading some replies to Susan about how post-divorce life is lonely and dating is hard, especially for older women. These fears actually kept me in limbo for about 6 months post D-day (before I found you).

I’m a woman in my mid-40s with two young children. I thought, wow, who would ever want to date me? I have attractive, childless, never-married female friends my age who are having a hard time finding a good man. I thought, well, it’s better to be married than not married at all, unless your husband is physically abusive or has some type of drug addiction, and my H does have some good qualities. No marriage is perfect, and we can overcome this, especially for the sake of the kids. After all, all the studies you read about (and the RIC) say it’s better for the kids to stay married. I actually desperately did the pick-me dance for about 4 months, and lost a lot of sleep from it, because I was working full-time, taking care of the kids and the home when I wasn’t working, and XH wanted me to greet him at the door when he came home late at night (he said from work) with good food, conversation and affection.

With the help of you, CL, I came to the realization that my health (mental, emotional physical) is most important, for me and my kids. My XH had checked out, and I needed to be the best mother I can be for them. Staying in a situation where my XH had his own 1 BR apartment in the same city where he would stay at nights because of “work” and repeatedly lied to me about ending it with OW was simply too stressful, and I needed to get out. I had to come to the point when I realized I was better off alone (whether or not I found someone else in the future) than with him. But when I started reading some of the responses to Susan’s post, I began to think again about whether I made the right decision (I filed for divorce a few months ago).

ReDefiningMe
ReDefiningMe
9 years ago
Reply to  blue

Blue;

I had so many of the same thoughts as you; exH left when I was 41 with two preschoolers; now I’m mid 40’s…

It does keep you stuck, but you have wisely and bravely found the right answers – when they “work” late and you’re stuck wondering and sick to your stomach…because you know the truth…being single – even if I/you never date again – is so much better than THAT. Congratulations on filing. You’re moving in the right direction toward better times.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  blue

“I have attractive, childless, never-married female friends my age who are having a hard time finding a good man.”

I’m recently divorced and I found a solution to this problem. I don’t look for a man. 😉

I have a few divorced/never-married friends too. We’re all on the same page as far as dating goes, that if we find someone great, but we don’t concern ourselves with it. It takes the pressure off and we’re able to have a great time without feeling like the night was a failure if we didn’t get asked for our number. We’ve been having a blast; going to the casinos, trying out new restaurants we’ve never been too, going to ball games. I don’t concern myself with finding anyone now because it’s ME time.

You made the right decision to file. You will find what works for you and your life will start to unfold. Thinking positively is a must. (I tend to worry and be rather cynical by nature, but I’ve learned the value of telling the negative to shut it.) You’re going to be just fine.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Lots of good vibrators on the market these days, too.

lale
lale
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Great advice! Everything is more fun when the only goal is to have fun!

4evertrue
4evertrue
9 years ago

Turned 54 yesterday. Live with a man nine years younger whose neighbor lady (with cats) just died alone. I have sacrificed and won the knowledge that this is enough. It is good and real. Nothing is stable and guaranteed anymore. Life is now.
He is not sparkly but calm and fun and had roses and dinner for me when I got home from my new job. He gets that although he wanted to take me “our” restaurant I’d rather stay home and eat pizza and watch hockey. Simple is enough. It wasn’t about him. That was a gift in itself.
He has the same allergies I do to OPD. Other People’s Drama. And he’s good to my dog.
I’d rather be a Saint OF wtf than a Martyr TO wtf . Thanks CL, you shine a light on the shit of this. These aren’t normal break ups and the compassion here keeps me going.
By the way try foxgloves in the garden. Might contrast nicely with the oriental lilies.
Hugs.

4evertrue
4evertrue
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

🙂 sorry to hear!
Your site really has been a God send for me. I waited a year and a half before dating. I found CL just in time to gain balance and absolve my trust issues to allow me to try a new relationship. No guarantee this will work out but I’m in it and happy for now.
I was broken and suicidal for too long but kept moving. Often alone. Always grateful.
The song by Janis Joplin comes to mind, when you got nothing, you got nothing left to lose. Good enough is good enough for me.
Peace.

Sillyme
Sillyme
9 years ago
Reply to  4evertrue

The song says
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose , nothing ain’t nothing if it aint free. Feeling good was easy now when he sang the blues hey feeling good was good enough good enough for me and my Bobby McGee.
For more healthy lyrics I prefer Don Henley’s/ Eagles The Heart of the Matter.
It says
I’m learning to live without you now but I miss you sometimes.
The more I know the less I understand All the things I thought I knew
I’m learning again
I’ve been trying to get down to the heart of the matter but my will gets weak
and my thoughts seem to scatter but I think it’s about forgiveness
Even if, even if you don’t love me anymore

There are people in your life who’ve come and gone
They let you down you know they hurt your pride
You better put it all behind you baby cuz life goes on
If you keep carryin that anger, it’ll eat you up inside…

I too love the ChumpLady….I come to this blog whenever I start to lose my perspective on all the shit that my husband has done. It is so easy to lose too as he is very good at deception I;ve come to discover.

Kim
Kim
9 years ago

I love you, CL. Your daily dose of telling it like it is helps me keep moving forward 17 months post D Day.

Nat
Nat
9 years ago

Well said, ChumpLady!

I totally agree with your statement of moving forward and not getting stuck in the past.

There are no guarantees in life anyway, so adaptation and survival are key!

When my STBX dumped me I vowed that I would not let this destroy our children’s lives and that we would succeed at all costs. I refuse to go down!!

And yes, sometimes I’m scared of the future but also curious to know what comes next.

An English Lady
An English Lady
9 years ago

Mourning the loss of something or someone is important. Life is a rolling process of births & deaths, beginnings & endings it doesn’t stand still. Grieving and mourning are necessary and shouldn’t be denied.

I howled with misery and grief when I found out ex-H had cheated and when I knew our relationship was done, that my marriage was over, that I’d be a single parent etc. I felt like shit. However, note the past tense there. I grieved, mourned, had my pity festival & then tried way too hard to force my life to do what I wanted it to do. Frantic, desperate efforts to control it all. But that is all long past for me now.

Different people will grieve for different times, but at some point you have to let go or risk turning into Queen Victoria who never let go & wore black for the rest of her life after Prince Albert died, consumed by her loss but never actually able to let go of him.

The great thing for me about CL and this site & CL herself is the positive way it encourages us all to see our release from Chumpdom. We haven’t lost a loved one to death, we’ve lost cheaters, liars, dysfunctional fuckwits who treated us badly. Although, it hurts hugely, there is much to be celebrated when these sorry excuses are shown the door. I am grateful for the celebration that CL offers & only wish I could have shared her upbeat, positive wisdom 11 years ago.

4evertrue
4evertrue
9 years ago

Well said. My D-day was 2008. I was a muttering ,angry, pick me dancing idiot for far too long. Then I stopped.
Then tripped over a few triggers. Then a few more.
Coming here soothes my pain. Others just get it. It’s a reminder that we did what we had to and we are still fucking here. We lost things, friends, families, gardens, pets, homes, lives were turned upside down but not lost. Thanks Chump Nation. Carry on.

Nat
Nat
9 years ago

I agree English Lady! Although I am saddened by the loss of a man that I loved he clearly didn’t and decided to cheat and abandon us. So all things considered, it was a good thing that he left because who wants a partner like that?

Tonya
Tonya
9 years ago

Would love to know how things panned out for Potato Man! Hilarious description – he’d have been so lucky. Isn’t it awful when your confidence might be at a low ebb and you then get rejected by some ass who thinks they’re gods gift. Enough to make you weep and hide yourself away.

RNE is going though the big D and I don't mean Dallas
RNE is going though the big D and I don't mean Dallas
9 years ago

Thank you so much for your words, ChumpLady. You don’t even know how badly I needed to hear this today. You’ve thrown a rope into the pit of despair I’ve put myself in and given me the encouragement to pull myself out again. For that, I love you.

Dr. I Can't Believe I'm a Chump
Dr. I Can't Believe I'm a Chump
9 years ago

I said during my separation and even now, I remind myself, especially on days when it does not feel true:

Even at my worst, I am better than him at his best.

His life is easy and full of things that are exciting and fun. He is comfortable. He married the other woman in a flash. He has a nice house. He has a good paying job. Yet, he is still an asshole. Even serial killers have “nice” qualities or things.

Kay H
Kay H
9 years ago

Love this – Even at my worst, I am better than him at his best.

Defying Gravity
Defying Gravity
9 years ago

Aw, Tracy. THIS. You ARE mighty. And so am I.

Tonya
Tonya
9 years ago

Ah, just to demonstrate that it’s never too late for love, check out the link below – 83 year old marries. It’s an awful newspaper but this story isn’t.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/defence-forces-veteran-peter-riordan-3495978#.U2cul_00Qm4.facebook

fallulah _G
fallulah _G
9 years ago
Reply to  Tonya

Thanks for sharing! 🙂

Lovebeingachump
Lovebeingachump
9 years ago

I haven’t read all of the comments and I wish I knew how to do animations cause I would so one right now that jumps up and hands a standing ovation!!! I needed this blog to get my ass out of the rut. You jump started me and every day make me realize no matter what I do or don’t have,,, it is better than it was. All the romanticizing and wishing and praying was never going to make him change to treat me the way I DESERVE to be treated. He LIED and he CHEATED. I didn’t! I had lots of opportunity, lots of “reasons” but I DIDN’T. I may have thought for a year that he ruined my life. Then I found CL and realized HE SUCKS! I’m going to rebuild my life better than ever. Easy to do? hell no but then again living with him was never easy either. Keep telling it like it is CL.

Lunachick
Lunachick
9 years ago

“…living with him was never easy either.” So so true! I’d rather be alone forever than spend one more second married to my husband.

Today would have marked 15 years being together. I could choose to be bummed about that, or happy that he did me a favor so I can live the rest of my life free from his abuse.

We’re all in pain at one time or another, but it’s up to us to choose how to live from here.

TodoVa
TodoVa
9 years ago
Reply to  Lunachick

Lunachick, I filed for divorce on what would have been my 16th wedding anniversary (20 yrs together). After two ddays, seven years apart, I woke up that anniversary morning and KNEW what I needed to do…best day evahhh!!!

Kelly
Kelly
9 years ago

AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME–(sorry for screaming)–Tracy you rock! I’d also yell “I love you” but maybe that is going a bit far………..

THANK YOU (still screaming) 🙂 🙂 🙂

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
9 years ago

So…

Step 1: Trauma. Try to get out of bed, shower, brush your teeth, go to work, buy groceries while in a zombie-like state of detachment (from yourself) combined with a hypervigilance that’s a bit like being on crack or something.

Step 2. Accept that you have no control over the persons or events responsible for your trauma and endlessly re-living events or trying to understand why somebody would traumatize you just keeps you traumatized.

Step 3. Eliminate the source of the trauma if it is still living with you 🙂

Step 4. Realize that this may be a gift. You’re no longer stuck with somebody who thinks its perfectly ok to traumatize you, you don’t have to walk around waiting for the other shoe to drop all the time. You’re free from all that worry.

Step 5. Life goes on. Find a new routine, find a new groove. Life is good.

Step 6. [optional] Take a chance on somebody new.

Is that about right?

I marked step 6 as optional because… I’m pretty happy most of the time, and it just seems optional to me right now. That, and I’m not exactly a social butterfly, but I’m OK with that; it doesn’t worry me most of the time 🙂

If step 6 is not optional, I may be in trouble. What do I know?

Margo
Margo
9 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

Great list Time Heals. I’m at step 5 too. Took a lot to get there. But then there were days where I never thought I’d get past step 1.

I wish I had found this site earlier. CL’s kick ass approach is much better than some of the other sites I went to first. The chumps here seem to be more uplifting and vigilant about toughing it out and moving on. Thanks all!

sdee
sdee
9 years ago
Reply to  Margo

It’s going on my fridge too, unfortunately I’m stuck on no 3. I think I’ve been in limbo sooo long that I don’t have the energy to deal with the conflict it would involve.
But I’m getting stronger and I’m nearly there……

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

I love your list. I’m on Step 5 myself. I don’t know if I’ll get to 6, but I have a feeling I will eventually. Right now I’m just enjoying the freedom that comes from being “uncoupled”. Ha ha!

LilyBart
LilyBart
9 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

Thank you TimeHeals, this is great. I believe I am currently on Step 5. Step 6 sounds nice, but merely amusing right now. 🙂

Kay H
Kay H
9 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

Great list! So true. I’m on #5 and can’t imagine ever getting to #6 and I’m okay with that. Being single is good….no, it’s GREAT!

ReDefiningMe
ReDefiningMe
9 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

Awesome List 🙂

Mehphista
Mehphista
9 years ago
Reply to  ReDefiningMe

That is going on the fridge, but for me, option 6 is to take a chance on myself.

Lunachick
Lunachick
9 years ago

On a support site like this, it’s inevitable that at times discussions can turn into the Pain Olympics. Thank you CL for addressing this in your usual kickass way.

My husband just got served yesterday and I can’t even tell you how happy I am. And I owe a lot of that happiness to this site. I wouldn’t be where I’m at without everyone here.

Another Rebecca
Another Rebecca
9 years ago
Reply to  Lunachick

Good for you, Lunachick. Standing in support amd admiration.

Lunachick
Lunachick
9 years ago

Thank you Another Rebecca! It means a lot! 🙂

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
9 years ago
Reply to  Lunachick

Hooray divorce proceedings! Sending you high fives and hugs. 🙂

Lunachick
Lunachick
9 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Thanks Rumblekitty!! I love that my lawyer is going to serve him. I don’t think I’ve ever been this ready and certain about something in my whole life. Can’t wait til this is all over! 🙂

Lunachick
Lunachick
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Thank you so much! I can’t wait to enter into a new chapter of my life.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  Lunachick

Lunachick, congrats! It does feel good to know you are moving forward.

I don’t know about anyone else but back in the day when calls would come in to the house for my ex I took great satisfaction telling the callers “he no longer lives here, please do not call again” and if a bill collector was calling I was gracious enough to give them his cell phone number…

Lunachick
Lunachick
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Thanks DDW! Get busy livin’ or get busy dyin’ right? I wanna get busy livin’!

haha That’s awesome! Satisfaction does come from the little things, doesn’t it? I too was very satisfied when I would call my cell phone carrier to tell them that this account will be in MY name going forward. Or I was able to cut the cable bill in half because I don’t watch sports as much as my husband does–oh wait, STBX!! I can officially say that now yayyy! 😀

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago

ChumpLady,
Thank you for this great post, you are right on. There is a difference with older women that you cannot know until you get there. OTH, I have no idea how hard it is to raise children alone and single the way you did. We all have our own roads. I’m not bitter about it, but I do understand what some of us older chumps are saying about being women “of a certain age” and meeting a good man. AND, there is something that most women will experience whether single or mated. I went through this weird thing a couple of years ago and I’m on the other side. I suddenly realized one day that I’d become “invisible” to most men. This is a thing, when I recognized it I googled it. Our society values youthful women very much, and when you reach what I call “a certain wrinkle weight” you really do start becoming invisible to most men. You see, I never realized that those nods, smiles and hellos to/from passing men were often driven by something more than just being friendly to everyone. The chatting in line at the store is no longer greeted with a smile or a response from most men. Women still see me, in fact they are nicer to me in the last few years than in my past. I’m analytical, so once I noticed this, I realized a small part of it had nothing to do with the wrinkles. I found it had to do with my lack of confidence, something I’d never lacked before, and which I’ve since regained. Nevertheless, most of it is age, I am still invisible to most men, unless I’ve made myself up, and I’m in dim light. It’s disappointing to realize that so often in your youth you connected with men due to your mutual interests, but now you are discarded before you can find out if you have any. What I decided is that if a man can’t manage to deal with my wrinkles well, oh well, he’s not that interesting anyhow. Those are from smiling and laughing and grief and they were earned! I have to get to work now, but if you like, I might try writing you a better description of this “invisible” phenomenon in a letter.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yeah, because there aren’t any lonely men in NYC. And certainly no batty men.

Maybe the “thing” is a subjective thing?

Chumpdiddlyumpcious
Chumpdiddlyumpcious
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

I think to try & relate this phenomenon to the male gender you’d have to focus on something other than looks. The only thing that stands out to me is when a man loses his ability to earn. And that isn’t visible at first glance. Superficially, women are valued for their appearance & men are valued for their earning power. Clearly Nomar you are a fantastic man with great depth but this invisibility with age is a real thing that unless you’re a female you can’t fully comprehend its subtle existence.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago

Not at all true. Men have the same pressure to look good. Gyms are full of guys trying to meet some standard.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago

Well, that’s a conversation-ending comment. “You can’t participate in this discussion because of your gender/race/age, whatever.” You can say it nicely, with an air of “tut-tut, you’re one of the nice men but you really don’t know what you’re talking about,” but it is what it is.

So, I guess for purposes of the discussion of women being invisible, my opinion is . . . invisible?

[sniff, sniff] Smell that? It’s irony.

Chumpdiddlyumpcious
Chumpdiddlyumpcious
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

I absolutely don’t think your opinion is not valued in any way. I just meant this situation is one of those that is hard to understand unless it directly applies to you. I don’t have children so I can’t exactly know what labor is like. I like your opinion & value it quite honestly. I was just trying to clarify not discount you in any way. My apologies if it came across otherwise. To be fair those “quotes” are not my words.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Thanks for the validation Tracy, (and several other chumps who get it). I was boxing with myself for a long while. I’ll check out Cynthia Heimel, I didn’t come across her in my research.

Mehphista
Mehphista
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

She wrote a great one in the 80s called “Sex tips for girls”

ReDefiningMe
ReDefiningMe
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

I’ve only dated a bit; and when I did, it was the online thing. I wasn’t quite ready, so I’ve stepped back a bit; but I did figure this –

The ones who are VERY focused on appearances will likely be the same ones “trading you in for a newer/thinner/richer model” anyways; so anyone that superficial isn’t going to be my type, any more than my size 14 and 47 year old self would be his type.

I had sparkly before, and it turned out to be shit. I want substance; conversation, laughter. Just like the advice I give my daughter, who’s heading into middle school – only consider dating someone you can be/are already friends with – who you can talk to…and since I don’t want to give her advice I’m not willing to follow, I’m continuing to rediscover me and meet people who share what I enjoy. If it happens – great. If not, life is still beautiful.

Arnold
Arnold
9 years ago
Reply to  ReDefiningMe

Lots of non wealthy men go through the same thing. If you are not rich or hunky, women do not see you.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  ReDefiningMe

broken record sez: The invisibility has nothing to do with dating at all. I’m talking about normal daily interactions that are no longer “normal”. Realizing the way you look/looked was the basis for many of those interactions. It’s like a missing stair that was always there and now it’s gone.

I’m talking about the usual daily interactions you have with the world at large, going to the store, work, what the fuck ever. I’m talking about the seemingly automatic way in which men avoid seeing women that look old. I’m talking about simple shit like the smile and hello as you walk past people. Only somewhere along the way, half the people who used to do the same, they now ignore you, like you do not exist – invisible.

and for the last time, this is not about fucking dating, or just plain fucking either.

FLBright
FLBright
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

DAT – I totally get you and have experienced the same. It has NOTHING to do with dating, it’s not about that, it’s like you said, just general daily interactions, general friendliness. It is totally A Thing! I’ve had conversations about it it with my group of women friends which consists of women of many ages. It’s not a *perceived* thing – and we need help because we’re *feeling* invisible. It is an actual calculable experience. And, I get the “freedom” feeling in the invisibility. But, the first few times that it happens, it is startling. Took me a little bit to sink into, or appreciate the benefits. I think what it did do for me too is realize how much I relied on my appearance to do some of that social work. It helped me realize I could hone some of my other mad skills.

ReDefiningMe
ReDefiningMe
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Sorry Dat; didn’t mean to offend. Thanks for explaining.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  ReDefiningMe

You could never offend me Redefiningme, I was just frustrated with all the focus on something unrelated.

Timeheals, you still don’t get it. I am not going to keep going, bottom line. In our culture women are overwhelmingly valued for their youth and beauty first, all else is secondary. Men are valued in reversed order. It was always clear to me, the invisible thing was just another footnote in all the ways that it’s true. Go and learn, hey, did you know that magazines have a 3 wrinkle rule for female models? Photoshop, go look at how women are portrayed vs men. I could go on but it’s not worth it, takes forever on iPad

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

We SEE you, Dat.

May THEY out THERE start Witnessing Your Existance Too…Cause you’re WORTH Acknowledgement..Not being Looked Through like ThinAir.
EVERY HUMAN IS.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Speaking as a 50-year-old man, I wouldn’t be so sure about the invisible thing. As the saying goes, there’s a lid for every pot.

Is a 50-year-old woman romantically invisible to a 20-year-old man? Often. But not always (if you’re into that). Is a 50-year-old woman invisible to a 50-year-old man? Probably not (and the blind ones are likely pigs you wouldn’t want anyway, right?). Is a 50-year-old woman invisible to a 60-year-old man? Unlikely. Youth is a relative thing.

When I was chumped at age 46 the idea of dating anyone 10 years younger than me creeped me out (when I graduated college and got married the first time they were in SIXTH GRADE!!!). When I married for a second time, it was to someone only three years younger and also in her mid-40s. Does that make me weird?

If you don’t want to take the risks associated with dating, or you don’t want to date outside your own age group, that’s your prerogative. But I think it’s wrong to think you don’t have options.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

for fuck’s sake, how many ways do I have to say that this has NOTHING to do with dating? Or being concerned with whether a man wants me. forget it, I’m clearly not getting through.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

I Get you, Dat.
It’s about General AKNOWLEDGEMENT as a HUMAN, having Nothing to do with Someone thinking You’re a CATCH to DATE…and how Lesser ” Human” Beings Don’t Even seem to Notice you Or Able to have a Cordial Conversation if it Isn’t for Them Wanting to Get Em alil Somethin Somethin.
I Soo Get It, Dat ** hugs*
We’re MORE than just a ” CUTE ” place Lookin to be Filled or Filled Out.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago

Brw, thanks

LiningUpDucks
LiningUpDucks
9 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

I get it. This happened to me when I was 7+ months pregnant. Guys would look right past me. This happened with all three pregnancies, so it wasn’t a fluke. I was “invisible”. Those everyday interactions just dried up (although I had plenty more interactions with women). When I got my body back, then I became “visible” again. On one hand, I found it sad that these everyday interactions were fueled (subconsciously or otherwise) by attractiveness, but on the other hand I also found it freeing to be invisible! I liked not having guys looking at me all the time, and I felt like I had more meaningful interactions. For this reason, I’m not at all dreading the day that my wrinkles make me invisible. It has many benefits!

namedforvera
namedforvera
9 years ago
Reply to  LiningUpDucks

I get it. I’m tall. And a natural blonde. When I was younger, (and thin) I was extremely *visible*. Enough that it made me distinctly uncomfortable. Now that I’m older, and, well, upholstered would be a good euphemism, men literally look through me as if I have a burka on or something. (And let us not get started on store clerks 🙂

But here’s the really interesting thing, at least to me. In Europe (Germany, specifically, exactly northern Germany…) that is NOT true. I had guys checking me out quite a bit. Men my age, thankfully. On the subway, walking down the street; having coffee… It was kind of fun to be honest–not least b/c I was last there with my Ex, who I already knew was a cheaterpants. And here I was getting interesting looks from guys. Sweet!

So–all I can say is, the US is not the world…

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  namedforvera

I’m puzzled by the certainty with which women are stating that men find them invisible because of their age, weight, or other superficial characteristics, when men on this site are saying that at least in our case that’s not true. Just because you FEEL invisible doesn’t mean all men FIND you invisible.

Imagine how you’d feel if a man chump posted that women find men “invisible” because they earn under a certain amount of money. Or are bald. Or overweight. I think plenty of women would be quick to say, “Hold on, that’s not true of all women. I’m not shallow. Don’t stereotype. You don’t speak for me.” And they would be telling the truth, even though it might not feel like the truth to the guy who is having a lousy go of it in his love life. Do you see my point?

Everyone is entitled to their feelings, but not their own facts. That’s especially when it comes to facts asserted about others. The others have a say in that, as well.

Nevertheless, BIG HUGS to all women feeling less than beautiful. Don’t let anyone, whether a jackass MILF-hunter at the local mall or editors at “Glamour” magazine, impose that sh*t on you. Whoever you are, and however you look, if you partner up, you deserve a partner who loves you and cherishes you.

nomar
nomar
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

FWIW, I don’t find age, financial challenges, or a few extra pounds to be romantic deal killers. Pessimism, boorish gender politics, and self-pity on the other hand. . . .

Anyone remember SNL’s “Debbie Downer?”
https://screen.yahoo.com/debbie-downer-happiest-place-earth-000000872.html

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

I said most men, not all, it’s real, I do not feel invisible, i simply am to most men, and these are not “my” facts. It is observable and shared by other women. Our society imposes that shit on both men and women, I cannot control culture. This thread is not about feeling beautiful or dating or any of that shit. But you are so inculcated by our culture, you felt the need to send a hug to any woman not feeling beautiful, way to illustrate the issue. Thanks.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
9 years ago
Reply to  nomar

I think most of us men are just used to women not “checking us out” way before we hit 50 🙂 lol

Heck, I was surprised to find out that members of the opposite sex noticed me every time when I found out about it way back when I was in my 20s 🙂 That’s probably why I am not connecting.

I get the “don’t look at the cripple” thing and “avoid eye contact with the pregnant lady thing”. Conversations could be a minefield if you don’t know how to talk about those topics; it’s like ignoring an elephant in the room, so it’s just easier to avoid all interaction rather than trying to look away from the wheelchair or baby bump and talk about “anything else” with the fear you are going to slip up and say something like, “So… how’d ya get knocked up” or “It must suck to be a cripple”.

I get the geriatric thing too. Young adults stop interacting with older adults when they start looking very old, and when they do interact with them, they often are patronizing (the presumption is you are “not as sharp as you used to be”).

I don’t get the “men don’t check me out” withdrawal, though. Probably because I have no experience in my limited awareness to relate it to 🙂

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
9 years ago
Reply to  namedforvera

Hopefully, we’re all going to get really old.

And when we get really old, if you go to the doctor with somebody younger, the doctor will discuss things directly with them and bypass you most likely