Cheater Is Rewriting Their History
Her cheater is rewriting their shared history. They used to be close, he used to be a good person, and now she doesn’t recognize him.
***
Dear Chump Lady,
My fuckwit just dropped the bomb on me on July 3rd, the day before Independence Day. He’s British, I’m American, now an independent American, the irony is not lost on me. I’m recovering okay…the road is still pretty bumpy, and maybe if I were actually allowing myself to process the emotions of it all I would find that the road has dropped off the map completely and I am just tumbling into an abyss. But, alas, LACGAL and the ChumpLady blog has been the sustenance getting me through this, along with soup. Is this healthy? Oh right, you can’t give legal advice so medical advice is likely off the table as well.
So despite the fact my fuckwit couldn’t get any fuckwittiery (soon to be divorced FW), before all of this he was a loving guy and we had a really beautiful marriage before he started spiraling out in life in general, losing his shit and dragging me into the 7th circle of hell with him and his work whore.
But before all of that, we had an incredibly close, loving marriage.
Don’t worry, I have been avoiding the goblin like the plague and will continue to do so. My sanity relies on it. Even so, the thought of him rewriting our history, which apparently is common, only to vilify me and what we had is incredibly disheartening. Regardless of him now being less valuable to me than a 25¢ bouncy ball from those crank machines at the grocery store, I still hold a lot of love in my heart for our history and who he WAS. When he was still able to experience empathy and prior to the head-in-own-ass procedure he underwent, that is.
How do I get over this?
I understand he is in La-la-land now with the office orifice but the thought that over a decade meant nothing or is being rewritten as a tragedy is ….a tragedy. It feels like I’m mourning the man he was and now realizing our true history probably only lives in me now.
Sincerely,
Trapped In The Pathetic Past
***
Dear Trapped,
It’s early days. Please give up the idea that you must be Keeper of the Eternal Flame: The One True Shared History. There’s his revisionist history (He Was Never Happy) and there’s your experience of your marriage. You don’t need his buy-in to understand your life.
You know how you conducted yourself: you were committed. Not perfect, but all in. You loved with your whole heart. That’s all you ever controlled: your investment. You’ve never controlled his investment, or his perceptions of the marriage.
What you’re bridling against is gaslighting.
He’s acting as if he never loved you, and you’re some idiot who couldn’t read the room.
Even if that were true — he’s been a caged animal chewing at the shackles of monogamy — it would still be incumbent upon him to admit that he didn’t share your feelings. He could’ve ended things ethically. Versus investing years in you, feigning commitment, and then telling you he never meant any of it.
before all of this he was a loving guy and we had a really beautiful marriage before he started spiraling out in life in general, losing his shit and dragging me into the 7th circle of hell with him and his work whore.
Loving people treat you with love. Shallow people drag you into hell. I don’t know the specifics of “spiraling out of life in general,” but I take that to mean that he was fine as long as life presented few challenges. And when things got tough, he chose escapism and an affair. Not a ringing endorsement for good character.
But before all of that, we had an incredibly close, loving marriage.
I know it’s mind-bending that people can fake intimacy, (look at the legions of chump stories here), but you can only speak for yourself. YOU felt close, YOU felt love. Perhaps he felt love too and then SQUIRREL! something distracted his attention. He takes his shallow affect with him. The Other Woman probably thinks his feelings are real too.
At least until the next squirrel.
Rewriting history protects a cheater’s self image.
It’s a kind of blameshifting. He’s not a fraud, you’re dim. He’s not inauthentic, you’re vile. I mean, he tried. But you persisted in being so gosh-darn unlovable.
Even so, the thought of him rewriting our history, which apparently is common, only to vilify me and what we had is incredibly disheartening.
If I call you a martian, are you going to feel offended? You know you’re not a martian. Stop giving this man the power to bend your reality. You know who you are and you know what life you shared and how he presented himself. He can vilify you, that doesn’t mean you have to internalize it.
I still hold a lot of love in my heart for our history and who he WAS.
Okay, and I’m waiting for the monarchy to be restored in Poland. This historical artifact isn’t helping you now. You’ve got a divorce to get through. I give you permission to have misty watercolored memories years from now. My educated guess is, however, that you will have moved on and won’t give a flip for Who He Was.
Who He Was matters to you NOW, because you’re thick in the mindfuckery. He’s pretending like he never invested a decade of his life with you. So you’re combatting that erasure with a stronger narrative of HIM. I’m telling you to stop making HIM central. Fuck HIM.
You matter.
but the thought that over a decade meant nothing or is being rewritten as a tragedy is … a tragedy.
Write your future. You’re still the same loving person you’ve always been who can ascribe meaning to her life. The tragedy is he’s too much of a fuckwit to appreciate that. He wasted your time. Don’t waste any more of yours pining for an idiot or the history you once shared.
I’ve never quite been able to parse what Cheater is saying in the cartoon that goes with this article – and I know you pull the captions from things that our Chump Nation compatriots have actually heard!
I take that to mean that there is always an excuse for their behavior. The excuse may be nonsensical because they are stretching to find something, anything, that shifts the blame away from their shitty character. It’s never their fault.
It’s basic blameshifting. She’s so awful… he couldn’t leave her. It’s not supposed to make sense.
I think FWs use anything (including a chump’s calm demeanor) to justify leading a double life. It’s the flip side of “I couldn’t divorce you because you’re too emotional”.
There’s also a certain cowardly confession attached “I couldn’t figure out how exploit your vulnerability, so I maintained the status quo.”
There’s a lot on here defending women who cry and are super-emotional — normal responses to their situations. In my case, though, I was forced onto the higher ground of having to always be calm and reasonable and rational — I have yet to emotionally express myself, while my FW has ranted and indulged his self pity operatically for three years. I dream of the day that I won’t have to be strong and keep it together and I can finally let it all out!
I take it as a representation of the fact that all the cheaters act like their only option was to cheat. According to them, us chumps were terrible spouses in myriad ways, and yet, rather than leave ethically, the FWs had to cheat.
An even worse tragedy is that before the internet and smart devices (or stupid devices, depending on how one uses them) and the ability to compare stories, the cheated on stumbled through the nuclear winter their lives had become believing that they were the only ones suffering their experiences. That their so-called partner’s behavior was unique and therefore the result of some kind of neurological meltdown or body snatcher invasion or invisible Celtic changeling swap.
Thanks to Tracy, and I think ONLY Tracy, we have the sanity-saving data set of similarities with those who are cool with cheating.
What I now find even more mind-boggling than Traitor Ex’s and the side pieces’ behavior are the similarities with other cheaters and side pieces, as if there is a gene in the DNA sequence.
Yes, Traitor Ex rewrites history. I have to deactivate the trigger on a regular basis.
Remember, their MO is to lie. To everyone.
Including side pieces. Side pieces don’t have a relationship with truth either.
Just someone, especially a liar, calls me a zebra does not mean I’m a zebra.
They pick people who will be willing accomplices in our abuse.
Liars, cheats and thieves just like them.
Character and integrity are not even in the picture- it’s a case of who will fuck them and put up with their bullshit.
Imagine what a relief it is for an inveterate scumbag who’s been suffocating under a “goody two-shoes” disguise for years to finally come out of the closet and “be themselves” among fellow scumbags! Except the glee can be short lived since they’ve usually forgotten why they’d originally tried to change the kind of company they naturally kept by pursuing a chump for a change: because there’s no honor among thieves. Consequently they’ll likely get burned again and then boomerang back to the chump alternative to balm their wounds for awhile until, again, the mask gets stuffy and then back they go in search of like-minded company.
Interesting.
Mine now has a new GF (found post-separation) that seems very nice if not a little too eager. I’m pretty sure they were talking marriage by the 8 week mark.
Strangely his AP lasted 6 years WHILE we were married, but as soon as the marriage was definitely ending, so did that relationship. (I always attributed that timing to her dumping him as she actually did not want him unless she was “winning” him. Once I wasn’t there to battle, she was no longer into it? But maybe he was telling the truth and he DID dump her)
Now he’s back to a nice girl who is marriage material.
I don’t recommend staring into the Redpill abyss (unless you want it staring back at you) but, like I wrote in another comment, there seems to be a general division in the manosphere between wife/brood-cow material and sidebang fodder. Some of this stuff is even being investigated by social science, like studies finding that men see “fling material” as usually shorter, less intelligent and with more visible tattoos.
But what the latter studies didn’t get into was the legitimacy of IQ measures (due to the fact that some races and classes test better) and whether shorter, salt of the earth women with visible tattoos have any interest in being bangmaids for objectifying douches. That also brought up the question of whether Redpillers get pissed off and aggressive when their elevated expectations of an easy fuck are shot down by petite working class women with visible ink.
My RN Nurse fuckwit’s decision to sample as much of the appetizing chocolate box selection of married and single surgeons, doctors, X-Ray personnel, lab and office staff, Residents and Interns and anybody else she connected with via her position as head nurse in the ER (Casualty) of several.West Coast hospital’s began long before the introduction of micro electronic devices. All the nefarious On Call Room.bonking happened without my clear appreciation of what was happening, I just.knew the loving, close and intimate life we had shared had evaporated, and I, a Brit, who had arrived in the US only three years earlier, felt so alone and unable to think straight enough to.make a rational informed decision.
The sober realisation began to dawn on me that I had been nothing more than the 60’s trophy English husband with the Carnaby Street look and when that novelty wore off, it was easy tondiscard.me and be buggered with my feelings or my desire to raise children a stable and loving environment. It was about this time that the ever expanding rewrite of our.marital.history began, and I really didn’t know whether to laugh or cry at some of the ludicrous assertions. FW couldn’t believe I had been faithful to her even when her best friend tried to seduce me. and Lord knows my career in the.music industry.provided more than ample.opportunity to.indulge extramarital carnal pleasures if you were so.inclined.
Everything she did was so tawdry and disgusting. She’s now an eighty year.old woman who understands I canot.live with her and is devastated that I am.now doing what I should have done a half century ago. Her place at the banquet of consequences has been secured.
I usually assume cheaters choose chumps because they want an innocent patsy or “beard” that helps them disguise themselves as normal in polite society and also ensures one-sided monogamy. But I guess some might also choose partners who, without meaning to, arbitrarily happen to fit a sexual fetish and then are sort of surprised that the “sexual trophy partner” doesn’t turn out to be a fellow scumbag. To paraphrase a line from Jessica Rabbit, “You weren’t a Carnaby Street swinger, you were just drawn that way.”
“Remember, their MO is to lie. To everyone.
Including side pieces. Side pieces don’t have a relationship with truth either.”
Sometimes I wish I could know what he told the AP. On the one hand, it doesn’t matter at all. But more just curious as to what exactly the lies were.
Now we are in the process of divorcing and he is in a new relationship. They met post-separation, so the new GF is NOT an AP. Sometimes I wonder what he told her about why his marriage ended. I am sure that it wasn’t the truth. We have kids so I occasionally hear something about the new gf. Recently they all went to lunch and the gf and her friend were talking about a celeb that famously cheated on his wife and how awful he was for cheating. And there sat my oldest, watching her dad AGREE with them about how gross cheating is. Well, that confirms my theory that he didn’t tell his GF the truth.
Sadly, I suspect she’ll find out eventually.
Because statistics seem to argue that most cheaters have no intention of leaving their marriages for an affair partner or, even if they do leave their marriages, only end up with affair partners about 3% of the time, it puts more credence in the popular bro argument that, at least as far as male cheaters go, there are certain strict divisions between women who are seen as “affair material” and “marriage material” and that twain does not often meet. There are even studies about this, mostly focused on what men see as short term and long term “material” or, moreover, what kind of prospective brood cow will best provide them with tall, good-looking, intelligent sons unafflicted by congenital herpes and also which mommy-bot brood cow will be less likely to day-drink or shoot smack and drop those kids on their heads in infancy.
Call it the Madonna/whore dichotomy or whatever, there are obviously some practical reasons for the divisions even if they’re usually expressed in misogynistic terms. It also suggests that how cheaters represent themselves to a short term bangmaid may differ from what they say to someone they see as long term wife material in about the same way that, say, a shady banking executive might talk in front of the lowlife thief he’s conspiring with to commit grand larceny or how he would speak in front of the bank’s investors or CEO. The lowlife thief, being a lowlife thief, might be more impressed with scummy bravado and shit talk than investors or CEOs and the shady exec might even enjoy a bit of gangsta role playing. But the same shady exec might be very put off to find investors or bank board members talking like street thugs because it could signal that the shady exec is the one in danger of being robbed and ruined.
Many of you might recall that last year I discovered that Traitor Ex and his primary side piece bought a piece of commercial property and opened an illicit massage parlor and escort service.
It really brought home that I did not know the person I was with for half my life, was married to for twenty years, and never knew him.
Realizing that I never knew him also weirdly enough eased the blast effect of new discoveries, because when new information came in, I found comfort in reminding myself that the only thing new about what I discovered was me knowing about it. It wasn’t like he was this great guy that had taken his Great Guyness elsewhere and was depriving me of his Great Guyness and giving it instead to Ms Wonderful.
The person I thought he was only existed in my
mind and that means no one is going to get that person.
I agree. The man I thought I married was not the man who divorced me. So much ick came out then, and my attorney warned me that it was likely only the tip of the iceberg. I was far better off closing the chapter with no romantic illusions that he truly cared about us.
Sure, he presents really well, but they can have him.
I called my FW Cheater husbands phone his WMD. In early days I had that thing locked down while pick me dancing and he had to ask me for it every morning before going to work (in my mind this was the best protection, especially since he worked from home. He had to use it and give it right back to me) I handed it to him once and said, “Here is your WMD.” He looked at me dumfounded and said, “my what?” I just stone cold stared at him with a poker face and replied, “your WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION.” He was like, “oh my god,” giving me this stink face look. And I told him, “well, it is. You destroyed our marriage, our family, tore everything to shreds, like a dirty bomb.” He was so huffy, didn’t talk to me for hours! lol.
Funny you should mention WMD’s. Not
that long ago, and I am 6.5 years from DDay, I started saying “a lie is a weapon of mass destruction.”
In reality, the phone is actually just one of the delivery systems, or the bomb casing, if you will, but IMHO the true WMD is the lie…..
My obsession with his phone stopped when I realized I could never control what was in his heart and mind, that his phone was actually my ally because it helped me SEE what was actually in his heart and mind, and I could finally respond according to truth and reality instead of the nonstop bullshit and deception that came out of his mouth.
Feel free to take page from my daughter’s playbook when handling liars and history revisionists.
When she was little, on a preschool play date her companion claimed to have roller-skating pony. When my daughter asked to see it, said playmate said, “It’s invisible.” Detecting BS, without missing a beat my daughter said, “Well, I have a monster who eats invisible roller-skating ponies.”
If they want to start a creative history rewriting competition, take the gloves off and go for it.
Oh I LIKE that!
😄Great story!
I should also add that we were in counseling on a regular basis our entire relationship, at my request because we both came from super dysfunctional families and I did not want to repeat the marriages of either sets of parents. He claimed to agree. For TWENTY SEVEN YEARS.
Talk about wasted time and money. Until the rewritten history reports started coming in. I had not one but two awesome therapists with whom I could reality check. Two living witnesses who were present the entire time who could validate and verify.
For a long time I felt unimaginable remorse over the time and money spent in counseling, wondering WTF he was doing
sitting on that couch with me all those years. Since his secret sexual double life was revealed, it has turned out for me to be the best time and money ever spent, and I now have not one but two people who are invaluable living time stamps, defenders, protectors, vindicators, and reality checks.
IMHO, going to therapy after finding out you are in a relationship with someone who is cool with cheating is like asking your partner to call the fire department after they’ve purposely burned your house to the ground.
It might be useful for validation, but I no longer believe that relationships can be repaired after infidelity. I think it’s a fatal wound. What you get is like the resurrected dog and child in Stephen King’s Pet Sematary.
Love the Pet Sematary analogy.
Another timely article. The rumination is getting better, but I still slip back into the “how could she do this”, and “was it real to her” thinking. Somedays I think I’m on the cusp of Tuesday, and then it seems so distant. Just keep trusting that they suck.
I hear you there, brother. Those same recurrent thoughts have been getting easier and less frequent for me-I hope it’s the same for you as well. Best we can hope for is “easier.”
I take a lot of solace in the fact that what I did was real. What you did was real, too. Sucks that you and I fell for losers, huh?
https://apple.news/A3FQbDTkpRVuJrvOBwa0jdA
There’s neurology to consider when processing trauma….remember to stay compassionate and informed!
❤️
I am happy to report that the rumination fades significantly over time. I don’t know how much just the passage of time heals, but in my experience just the act of time passing does extinguish the rumination.
Hang in there, brothers.
❤️
My ex went through several stories but ultimately settled on the belief that he had to flee because I was so disordered and dangerous. Yes, he was projecting. He told that to his attorney, saying he wanted to give me more than the law allowed because he loved me and knew I’d never make it without him. His wife was such a mentally disturbed soul, you know. His family got the same story, of course.
Thankfully, the attorneys figured it out because experienced divorce attorneys know all about these disordered souls and false narratives. It all came out in technicolor because my ex had a major flare of his diagnosed mental health issues and began talking about suicide and murder with his 60-something attorney. He also tried to control and game his own attorney, which you don’t do with a legal pitbull.
What a joy it is to live in reality post-divorce though. I highly recommend it.
Elsie
My lawyer told FW’s lawyer his client was a late life drug addict. Opposing counsel says he says he isn’t (lawyer had been a patient of FW, he was hopeful ha!). When my lawyer filed motions to compel and then contempt, FW lawyer says don’t expect anything complete from FW, he can’t do it….. For me that was a bit of vindication. I wasn’t making anything up
I truly cannot fathom all the garbage divorce attorneys have to work through. Mine was in his late 60s and was the son of a civil judge who became an appeals judge, so he truly had seen or heard about it all. He managed some of it by being very, very picky about who he represented. He took less than 10% of the cases that wanted him, so I was very fortunate indeed.
Knowing that he got it and then knowing that my ex’s attorney got it made all the difference. Mine said not to expect closure, but yes, that was it.
dear trapped,
it’s early days, so give yourself the grace to mourn what was and what you thought it was, because two things can be true.
i found it helpful to make a dual list of concrete behaviours that my X was doing VS what he was saying. i used pure evidence for the first while, things that existed in real life, like receipts and emails. for example, the texts from his AP declaring her love for him VS his claim “it was a business dinner. we’re not friends.” it’s like i built the evidence for the case file and presented it to myself at a later date. it was effective in shaking me out of the emotional haze and i became more rational.
i hope you have a good lawyer because they both help and shield you from fuckwits. i’m thankful for my lawyer. a therapist is a good thing, too. someone to talk to who is outside the situation, a safe place to say what you wish.
it’s easy for me to say this because i’ve made it through to the other side. i know it’s hard, and grief is a motherfucker. so, set up your healthy systems, check and double check what he does versus what he says, and build your own case. one day at a time, friend.
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
I think EVERY cheater re-writes history. They need to justify their behavior to the AP, to their family, to themselves. They even justify it to sex workers.
Just focus on the divorce. Let your lawyer use or not use the fact of infidelity. Your FW might be more conciliatory during this period of cover-up. Don’t use your lawyer as a therapist.
You’ll find that ruminating over what you know to be true creates more pain. Going no contact is key.
My ex FW went through a whole spectrum of his-stories post DDay, from “I hurt the only person who ever really loved me” to “I was increasingly unhappy in the marriage” to “it may not be 50-50 but you own your part” to “I was miserable for the entire 30+ years of our relationship and only stayed for the kids”. Whatever man. He can say whatever he wants. It doesn’t matter how he spins the past, all that matters is what we make of our one precious life in the present.
Here’s how that looks for us twelve years post DDay and nine years post divorce:
Me: Single, steady job, own my own home, great relationship with our two kids (my son and I just walked my daughter down the aisle at her wedding to a wonderful man, ex wasn’t even invited to the wedding).
Him: Divorcing wife #2 (former stripper), handful of DUIs (the latest one will probably cost him his drivers license), multiple job losses (see DUIs), living in a hotel, no relationship with his daughter and only intermittent contact with his son.
My son says that his dad now says that he is where he is in life because of the bad choices he made. Does he count me as one of the bad choices or one of the only good ones he ever made? Don’t know and don’t care. I’m looking forward, not looking back.
Great story. Congratulations to you and your kids, sounds like you guys are rocking it.
Wow. What a loser. They truly are their own bad karma.
I caused her depression, so she had to find someone else to make her happy.
Ditto almost everything you wrote👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻. Year 10 from Dday – 7.5 since divorce. 25 year marriage. FW and AP are disordered as hell. I’m not. I’ve built a great life. FW is just someone I never knew. Good riddance. I couldn’t give one 💩 what he says.
“FW is just someone I never knew.” EXACTLY! Perfect way to phrase it.
TITP,
Unfortunately it is one of life’s certainties that your Cheater will, at some point, rewrite your shared history. They will portray you as the vilest of villains and the person solely responsible for what happened between you and themselves as the hero/martyr/victim/whatever of the story who didn’t deserve any of the evil consequences that came their way. It’s just what they do and there’s not much you can do to stop them.
What you can do is choose what you do about it.
I would recommend that you accept that your Cheater is going to do this, but be very selective and careful about how you engage with their lies. Not every lie needs “fact checking” or countering; just the ones that matter (I would suggest) in a financial or legal sense, or those that relate to your children if you have them. You should also understand that those who believe the lies that your Cheater tells about you are most likely invested in him and you; they are not your friends and there won’t be much you can do to change their minds …. but you can cut them out, which will save you a lot of time and effort.
Here’s wishing you the best of luck as you work your way to a much better (and FW free) future.
LFTT
Dear Trapped,
You’re in the early days. It gets easier. Trust me-I have about a year head start on you on this one.
What you are feeling and going through emotionally right now is NORMAL. You are resolving the Real Truth against what you have been presented. It’s a lot of dissonance, I know. Your feelings were very real. YOUR love was real. That cannot be taken away from you.
Him? His? Not so much, I’m afraid. So much so that he’s shifted his gaslighting to rationalize his bad behavior. It was wrong of him to abuse that. And to abuse you.
What kind of person revises history to suit their own ends? Not the kind that would be overly keen on people knowing what atrocities they really wrought. Not the kind of person worth pining over, that’s for sure!
(I was going to make an allusion to textbooks and things, but I’ve had a long night and the coffee is still kicking in here.)
There is a reason we call them Fuckwits(other than it is fun to say-as “fuck” is a universal word that everybody can understand.) It’s because nobody of real intelligence would buy the revisionist, self centered bullshit that they put us through.
He’s running the entire Fuckwit playbook. He needs you to be the bad guy. As our fearless leader indicates, it sounds like he was only amazing when it suited him to be and when things were going in his favor.
Like I said-I’m a year further down the road from you. Not quite “Mighty” yet…but getting there. Part of what I’ve had to come to terms with is that the person I was in love with either stopped existing or never existed to begin with. And didn’t have the decency to tell me. And decided to be impulsive rather than fix things. And that even if that person ever was real…the way they behaved? The things she did? All of the “awesome” in the world doesn’t fix what she did.
Personally? I think that they rewrite history because they changed history. They changed it away from the one where they kept their word and never betrayed us and mangled it to their own ends. We know the truth. And one truth prevails. We do not live in that realm of dishonesty. The real history has a way of remembering the truth and who the real villains are. Even the mighty Ghengis Khan couldn’t completely delete his enemies. I doubt your fuckwit had the largest landed army in Asia-mine can’t even dispose of used K-Cups.
You love intensely and that is wonderful! Give that love and that grace to yourself now. You deserve it. And you’re going to need it.
It gets easier. Hasn’t quite gotten “easy” yet.
I am probably the Demon King in her narrative. Which suits me just fine. If history has in fact changed…may I be a Kind and Noble Demon King(and I hope one of you out there reads that and gets the reference…we could all use a little more justice…)
Happy Independence Day to you, and a Happy Tuesday to the rest of the Chumpnation!
I chose my online alias from the AP’s reported nickname for me– “Devil woman.” You can probably guess what kind of fables this Evangelical idiot had been told to inspire the moniker.
Can’t even dispose of used K-Cups…lol. CN may be somewhat downtrodden, but damn the humor just shines! Bravo!
They will always revise history, get used to it. Mine is now saying I went out with a gal with the implication that it was before the decree was finalized so she can feel better about what she did. I did not, and it was after, but I definitely was not ready to date; that was an unenforced error on my part.
Josh,
Cheaters love a bit of false equivalence.
Ex-Mrs LFTT tried to pressure our 3 kids (then 11, 16 and 18) into accepting her AP by stating that they had to treat him in the same way that they would any future girlfriend of mine ….. I wasn’t dating then (nearly 10 years ago) and I haven’t dated since either. She also told them that if she broke up with her AP, then it would be their fault.
Our kids (smart cookies all of them) told their mother to kick rocks.
LFTT
Oh yeah, the ex wants me to tell her about any person I introduce to my sons should it come to that, and even meet them. Not happening at all.
I got that demand too (about a a year after divorce), but the fact that I *was* dating someone actually made refusing it very easy: I care for my girlfriend and there is no way I would inflict my ex-wife on her.
Ignore, ignore, Ignore. I’m sorry but it sounds like you’re still a bit too close.
You can coparent with text or email. You don’t have to talk to her.
Oh no, I only contact her through an app and email. She reached out to my mother, which I had to reiterate that talking with her is not ideal.
Perfect 👍
This is common. My ex is really phony and image conscious, to the point that he didn’t tell his family we were divorced until 3 months after it was final, so I doubt he says much.
But if he has I’m sure it’s all bullahit about how I changed and just got too unreasonable and hard to make happy. I’m certainly his whore ex gf or his nasty passive aggressive conflict avoidant douchebaggery is never mentioned.
But that’s ok. I’ve learned that these phonies don’t fool as many people as you’d think. I know it’s true in my ex’s case because people who know us both have told me.
Trust that your phony doesn’t fool people either.
My ex fooled a lot of people, believe me. The snakes that know how to do that are out there.
But he didn’t fool the attorneys, or the therapist that we both saw. After he left, she told me, “You know Elsie, he’s one that probably shouldn’t have gotten married, and he certainly didn’t deserve someone like you.”
I struggle with this even 6 years out. My mom died recently and when looking for pictures of her in better health and with my kids as babes I ran across all the pictures of my FW at the time. I couldn’t help but look for signs of the feelings he now ascribes to our life together. Not there. Instead I see a happy young chaotic joyful family. Thinking about him today rewriting history and saying the things he says about me as a person—as a mother to those babes in the pictures—I can barely keep from passing out. The THEFT OF REALITY that is spoken about by CL and CN is so real and so disorienting. F these disordered freaks for stealing reality from their children and the people that loved them. F their believed history that schmoopies lap up. I sadly have no advice for the OP except for to continue to try to follow CL on this point. But be prepared—it’s hard. We tend to believe our loved ones are reliable sources and it’s hard to let that go. Did I say F them enough? F them!!
If your pictures are online you can use facial recognition to identify all pictures containing your FW and do a mass delete. I suppose in principle you could lose some nice pictures of other people, but in my experience seeing the ex in the picture automatically spoils it anyway so it wasn’t much of a sacrifice. XW has her own copy of all the files so she can show the kids if they want to see her as a young mother.
It’s the affair that makes them unhappy. Not the other way around.
Yea, it’s early. (Please excuse me if that sounds dismissive or trite, I mean no disrespect.) When you are fully and truly out if it all, you might find that your inner self lets you remember things he did/said that were contrary to your inner narrative (that would have been too scary to face head-on during the marriage).
My romance with Cheater was pre-tech…no home computers, internet or cell phones. We only spoke on landline phones once a week when we were in college. So, we wrote letters and I saved them all. During the mess, I resisted reading them at first scared that they would cause pain and I was already in pain. What surprised me was that when I finally read a pile of them, I was reassured that I was not insane and delusional thinking we had a (flawed but real) romance. It was like a visit with an old friend. It helped me as I suffered the misery of his rewriting.
I held onto the “I still have love for him” for a really long time (we were in wreckonsillyation when he died) but as I remembered more abuse and learned proof of more cheating, my lingering love dripped away little by little until one day I found a smoking gun and dropped the papers on the floor. My love was dead before I heard the thud.
For me, I have come to see that the entire concept of “relationship” was very different for him than it was for me. I wanted to build a strong, abiding love filled with respect, kindness, devotion, spiritual unity etc. For him, it was more transactional…he needed a wife like he needed a toilet and he was willing to say the expected words to make it happen.
Epilogue: I saved his love letters for his kids to read someday but the letters I wrote him, I threw them all away. I have no interest in someone reading my misguided perceptions of love. Im remarried and I have a great life.
I realize that I kind-of contradicted myself above…his love seemed real when reading his letters but it turned out to be weak-at-best and transactional. Welcome to my world with a cheater. There were likely some real moments and there were a lot of lies. Sometimes people will say “remember the good times” but I found that took a lot of energy and made me more sad than happy, so fuck that.
As strange as it might be to wrap up 29 years (26 married) into a ball, tie millstones to it and throw it into the deepest depths of the ocean, that is pretty-much what I did.
“You had other relationships, I haven’t.” on our way out of “abuse enhancement” when I begged him not to keep trying to find someone else- it took him a while and he would come back… Crying in wreckconciliation while pointing a thumb at me – this was the last time I saw his face-” I don’t want her to be the only hot girl I’ve fucked”- this, while looking at the abuse enhancer, not me. 20 years of marriage, 2 kids. 10 years of “friendship” before that. Met in high school. “The whole thing was a mistake”. “I haven’t loved you in 5 years” ( that 5 years ago being when my father committed suicide..)What else? Just Take care of yourself. You are here, you are on the right path. Go NO CONTACT as much as you can. I am still not better, I’m slow at getting better. He tried to stay friends..and I refused that right away at least. What I did and regret -but whatever it’s done – is deeply internalize all of his degradation of me and then continued to degrade myself for a LONG time. Try not to do that and forgive yourself a lot if you do. You’ve been abused. It’s gaslighting and it’s abuse and it’s hard. I’m here to find ways of coping. And read shared experiences. Read Liars by Sarah Manguso. Read Days of Abandonment by Ferrante- that one is good too.
On Dday I discovered ExFW had a multi-year long hooker habit. When I confronted him and asked why he did what he did he said that he wanted to experience sex with other women (we met in our late teens/early twenties and he was a virgin while I was not). He didn’t explicitly blame me for his cheating, he even said he was happy with our life together during all those years he cheated. I don’t know what he told his friends and family but I’m assuming they got a different story where he left out the part with the hookers.
Although ExFW didn’t blame me I still struggle with blaming myself – for not leaving sooner, for not trusting my gut, for not being attractive or sexy enough (he once told me he tought I was getting too fat), for being too gullible,…
I had wanted to leave years before when our child was an infant because of his selfish behaviours then (I assume now he was already cheating during that time). I didn’t but I still had some residual resentment from that time and I think this might have pushed him away.
“I don’t want her to be the only hot girl I’ve fucked.”
🙄
He was into porn, wasn’t he.
I have no idea. Those are jsut a few tidbits of my demoralizing time- 6 months? – in “therapy”. Another was about how I didn’t do nice things for him anymore ( my dad’s body had to be shipped from Austria for burial, I had to kidnpa my mother who had dementia. I mean- I had stuff to do) , and that I was “passive aggressive” which I called him often, and I am known for being frank…I mean. Whatever. He was garbage. A walking garbage fire. I am so happy I’ve never seen him since that last day- but I still live with so much pain. I meditate, I have good friends, I love so much of my life, my dogs, my work- and yet I live with all his words in my head. Anyway. Objectively and reasonably, I know he was horrible, but I don’t know how to cure my self blame. I may never. But I am happier than I was. I literally was in a a dissociative state of not knowing what was real or not. I started seeing things and signs…trying to make sense of what now I know were his ever shifting lies…
Be careful about believing his timeline. If there was no indication *at the time* that his feelings changed for you, it’s just as likely that he is inventing all this as a justification for his behavior. If there’s no independent verification, I wouldn’t take it at face value.
I got a similar “I haven’t had a single happy moment with you since x” excuse, but the value of x increased every time XW brought it up. I’m a slow learner, but after the fifth revision I stopped paying attention.
Yes after 5 it was 7 then he said “the whole marriage was a mistake”. HAHA. And then the next night? It was 10 years ago so am not sure but I think that was his last night ever in my bed. That night we get in bed and I say what’s wrong? And he thumps his chest and nods sadly then says “I have no heart for you”. He woke with a bag on him. I had been up all night staring at him in disbelief. And i said when he woke, “you can’t talk to me that way.” That was a week or so before we began wreckinciliation where the abuse escalated and then- it all came out. And it was UGLY and he’d been hiding money for years. 3 at least. He’s tried to talk to me. I refuse. I will probably never talk to him but I make up what it would cost. Like, if you pay for me to hire a forensic accountant I’ll talk to you in my lawyers office. HAHA.
A cousin of mine frames her marriage as “soul-mates”, a dream come true, BFF. Yet, you meet her husband & you see his perception is different. She kiss-y kisses him & is huggy hug all the time & he responds back but not like her. And when she’s not around, it’s like she doesn’t exist for him. He rarely says a word about her unless asked. I think my cuz is projecting her feelz and her hubby isn’t on the same level.
I realized some time back though that my reality likely wasn’t the same as my X’s. Looking back, I think he wanted to bail when the second kid came despite saying he wanted another. Reality & Domesticity got to him and then life wasn’t as funsies! By the time Schmoopie came around, his feelings had evaporated for me & he didn’t want the solid family anymore that he claimed he wanted in the beginning (btw I think that was bull too he was only playing to my tune). He wanted fresh P instead of family- not that Schmoopie’s P is fresh by a long shot.
I’m not saying OP’s marriage was the same, but I suspect if OP goes over it with a forensic comb, that the signs were there that FW had a foot out the door long before.
FW also claims during our marriage that I treated him badly. It’s so absurd that I laughed when I heard it. He’s justifying & that’s all there is to it.
Cheaters rewrite history so they can live with themselves and as image-management for others. My ex proclaimed loudly to everyone we knew that I became violent because he was giving financial and job advice to a work colleague, so he left. In truth, he left because I called for help after he beat me unconscious when I discovered he’d been giving tens of thousands of MY dollars–including $14K in one day– to a “woman” he met on a dating site about a month earlier, in return for pornographic pictures, “poems she wrote” by cutting and pasting lists such as “40 Ways to Greet Your Lover,” and the fantasy that he could show he was a stil a “cool dude” in his mid-60s because he had a “hot babe” in her 20s.
Like OP, I thought we’d had a loving, mostly happy marriage until I looked back. For example, this self-proclaimed pacifist had repeatedly kicked my ankles and knee in my sleep, which I now suspect was deliberate, and worse, I learned he had abused our child, which I know was deliberate. He’d commited financial theft of my non-marital assets so long before discovery that it was outside the statuteof limitations, and he’d been hiding marital assets, too.
They don’t change for the worse as much as they reveal what was there all along.
And even if he WAS a great guy at one time, he isn’t any more. You’re probably still in shock, and it will take time to be able to see the past clearly. Get a good lawyer and don’t let you feelings for the man you though he was cloud your actions and emotions. Read as many if the archives, including comments, as you can, and you’ll start to see who he was and is more accurately.
“They don’t change for the worse as much as they reveal what was there all along.” 👍👍👍
I shared with my attorney during the intake appointment that I did not like how it felt to be there, ending a marriage with someone I thought I loved. He was kind but said that from his perspective, this was a divorce that was needed and that I might well find out just how little my husband thought of me.
My ex thought I was a bug to be run over and squashed in the divorce.
No, Elsie was a phoenix!
WHERE are all these kind divorce attorneys I keep reading about on here?? I haven’t met one, and I’ve encountered about 9 so far!
Mine was indeed unusual and retired the day after the judge signed off. He was greatly respected in the metropolitan area but became like a brother to me. He was also very efficient and responsive. Truly one-of-a-kind.
Even his associate who did my closeout said he didn’t know precisely how to be very empathetic and still maintain professional boundaries. He was working on it but didn’t know how his mentor did it for over four decades.
I envy you. What I wouldn’t give to have a lawyer like that!
I really feel that every lawyer I’ve encountered has been contemptuous and shallowly unconcerned. False, manipulative salesmen and women!
I know. I have heard the stories both before and after my divorce. Here, they tend to be nasty as well. I interviewed five, and it was a little shocking how ugly some of them were in just the query phone call. I knew I needed a powerhouse with a soft touch, and he was it.
Thanks, Elsie, good to know I’m not the only one. Divorce is morally corrosive. It dawned on me one day that the lawyers I’d met shared my husband’s world view. His approach and attitude make sense to them and they just “get” him and naturally gravitate to his logic and arguments. He is also a lawyer!
The day I had that insight was the day I started to steel myself to be screwed. I hate the entire process so much, it is simple bullying and humiliating — my husband is feasting on it.
I hated it too. The only light in the legal mess was truly my attorney and his staff. I actually have a silly picture of my attorney on my bookshelf because he was such an inspiration to me. Truly a solid human being in every way.
Oh Trapped,
I get it. I was there. Sometimes I still go there.
When he first moved out, I didn’t want to tell anyone aside from my absolute closest friends. I was so embarrassed and I was so worried about what he would say about ME. And what people would believe about ME.
What helped me was time. I know that is not the most fun answer because that means you will suffer with these feelings when what you want is some relief NOW. But at least know that there is a future where you really will not care. The people that matter will know the truth, the rest just don’t matter.
Another thing that that helps is embracing this nugget: You don’t need his buy in for your story to be true. If YOUR truth is that everything was lovely in your marriage until your FW decided to be a selfish prick and cheat with a coworker? Then that is your truth. You don’t need him to AGREE.
My FW is abusive in every way but physically. He was a very difficult person to deal with. I put up with so much crap for 2 decades. That’s on me. I was raised in chaos and felt comfortable there. I was raised to think it was normal for a wife to walk on eggshells and a husband to be explosive with rage. My point is that I bent over backwards trying to make a miserable man happy. I thought I was engaging in “for better or worse”, that I was accepting him flaws and all, like you do for the person you love. What happened instead was that I made myself positively miniscule in an attempt to pump him up. And it wasn’t enough.
His story is that I didn’t make him feel wanted enough. In fact,he goes as far as to say he doesn’t believe I EVER wanted him. Sure,I worshipped the ground he walked on and did everything for him while ignoring heaps of abuse, but apparently that wasn’t enough. So he had to cheat because when the OW gave him attention, and he had that fresh shiny limerence, it was irresistible due to how starved for attention he was. (Did I mention that ALL I paid attention to for 2 decades was HIM?) He said it so much I started to believe it myself. And then I remembered he did some shady stuff when we were in the crazy honeymoon phase. And that he cheated profusely on his long term gf before me. (you’ve heard the saying “I saw all the red flags, I thought it was a carnival”? that’s me) My point is, he can SAY that my lack of 24/7 adulation is what CAUSED the cheating. But he did it before he was with me…so that is just who he IS. I know the truth. Those that matter to me know the truth. I don’t need him to accept it for it to BE the truth. Neither do you. Let him have his BS story. It has nothing to do with you.
Dear Trapped,
You sound like you’re absolutely mighty during what are still very early days: you’ve got minimal contact going, you’re not falling for the mindfuckery, you’re *eating*…. Amazing stuff—keep it up!
As you do, just realize that what you’re feeling re: the good times is a very normal part of the grieving process. You’re “bargaining,” which is a kind of rationalization. You’re trying to make the pieces fit together, and they won’t, and it’s driving you crazy. I was right there with you when my husband abandoned me after 18 years of a marriage that was the envy of many of our friends and had episodes just as beautiful as the ones you’re remembering right now. I blamed it on mid-life crisis, on a psychotic break, on CTE (seriously)…. Spoiler alert: it was probably none of those things, and more importantly, I don’t care anymore. With the hindsight of Tuesday, five years post-divorce, I’m going to tell you two things about that “bargaining” stage: I hope they’re helpful, but if they’re not, just ignore them!
I found those two things super hard to accept during my bargaining phase. But once I did (and trust me, it took more than a couple months, it took a couple years and a lot of therapy), it allowed me to treasure the good memories from my marriage without needing my ex’s participation or approval. Now, I can actually look back at happy times I had in the marriage (notice I don’t say “we had” b/c I have no idea how he actually felt) and enjoy those memories without the pangs of fury or regret or inadequacy or self-pity that used to come with them. I just think, “That was a really wonderful time,” and I move on with my wonderful new life.
You’re going to have a wonderful new life, too, I promise you. But right now it hurts and it sucks, and that’s normal, and we’re all here for you. Hang in there—you’re doing fantastic!
(((hugs)))
Okupin
I’ve heard at least four different dates on when I supposedly ‘left him’
I’ve been told the emails I sent from overseas where I asked him what the hell was going on as I tried to break the wall of silence ‘ didn’t matter’.
Only the final one where I said I ASSUMED he had abandoned the marriage held any weight because apparently it was me all along.
No doubt he’s spread enough crap to grow a market garden about the state of the marriage over time.
He’s already a known liar and bullshit connoisseur, but he’s outdone himself this time.
I didn’t expect anything else to be honest- he’s always been that way and has no intention of changing- even when it all goes spectacularly wrong as it always does in the end.
Labelling him a slow learner is being extremely generous.
From the time I worked in advocacy for survivors of domestic violence, I admit I became a bit of a skein untangler. It was necessary to support survivors in recovering from not only the abuse itself but the “second injury” of domestic abuse, which is when survivors are victim-blamed/shamed by both the public as well as helping professionals. To the extent that victim-blaming assumptions were built right into many of the then-prevalent bs theories about how and why abusers abuse (which frankly sounded a lot like today’s cheater apologism), the entire mess had to be sorted so survivors could cut the ballast of blaming that weighed them down and slowed escape or recovery.
Untangling skeins is typically frowned on if it’s about providing abusers with sad sausage psychobabble alibis or blowing hopium at victims by implying abusers are somehow “fixable.” But, considering the nature of the information available in the DV arena (forensic theories on the psychology and behavior of domestic batterers), the skeins I usually mess around with only untangle in one direction, which is “run for your life.” This is especially true since there appear to be multiple overlaps between typical cheaters’ behavior and that of batterers– give or take skull fractures, organ damage and broken bones.
So, in case this helps get Trapped past the “wtf just happened” stage of paralysis, I’ll rattle on about a few crossover theories that might fit though I would never insist. It’s all just food for thought. Keep what works and throw anything else away. But first I should probably clarify my concept of domestic abuse. Evan Stark– the late, great forensic expert on coercive control and domestic violence and one of the earliest spearheads of the battered women’s shelter movement in the US and abroad– concluded that most abusers don’t have to take their hands out of their pockets to paralyze their prey through psychological and strategic coercion and control. Even those abusers who periodically resort to violence tend to operate on a “beat by need” basis, mostly preferring less athletic and less legally risky methods of terrorizing and controlling their prey and only bringing out the “big guns” of physical abuse as a last resort in proportion to victims’ resistance.
What Stark learned over the course of his 50 year advocacy and research career was that even victims who experience periodic assault at the hands of partners still overwhelmingly cite psychological abuse and coercion and control as the most devastating and paralyzing aspects even beyond the physical abuse. In other words, just because a victim was never directly physically assaulted doesn’t mean the abuse wasn’t “terrifying/destructive enough” to induce captor bonding, aka “Stockholm syndrome.” The validity of victims’ gut fear of the potential risks involved is illustrated by the statistical fact that roughly 40% of domestic murders were not preceded by prior reports of violence, meaning the final lethal attack was probably the first and only. In fact, of all the factors involved in domestic abuse, the only thing which statistically predicts the potential for lethal domestic violence is a preceding pattern of coercive and controlling behaviors– why coercive control has been called the “golden thread” of domestic homicide prediction in forensic research.
As a side note, personally I think that whatever risk associations turn out to be statistically true are probably also hardwired into human lizard brain risk management faculties. In essence, if certain behaviors have always historically signaled increased risk of death, then humans will be hardwired, even if merely subconsciously, to fight/flee or fawn/freeze simply upon seeing any of those behaviors in others.
I bring up the above because Stark’s mission for the past twenty years was to correct legal and public and even victims’ misperceptions that, for behavior to be considered domestic abuse and for it to be considered sufficiently terrifying to entrap victims as well as representing an alert to authorities that risk of murder loomed, it has to involve fists, fire arms and tire irons. In Stark’s view, waiting for fists to be involved is already too late to more effectively offset risks to victims which is why he also spearheaded the criminalization of coercive control, a campaign which was successful in the UK and Scotland and has so far inspired civil protections for victims in at least four US states.
Anyway, I’m guessing that a few different, possibly related scenarios may be going on in Trapped’s situation: One possibility is that Trapped’s state of feeling plagued with “misty watercolor memories” of the marriage is illusory because she hasn’t been out of the abuser’s orbit long enough to fully emerge from captor bonding and that lingering captor bonding may be making it hard to remember and identify some of his more coercive and controlling tactics over the past decade or so. In other words, this ex’s behavior might not have been so loving and Trapped may feel trapped because she’s been psychologically hobbled and hogtied in subtle but coercive ways from the beginning of the relationship. Another possibility is that, due to some particular life trigger (maybe death or illness of a parent or job loss or promotion; or sudden onset of mortality fears due to accident, illness, substance abuse or stress; or even the AP’s psychological and/or actual resemblance to some abusive role model from this ex’s childhood) the ex is like a “Manchurian candidate” who’s childhood training in abuse quite suddenly kicked in and caused him to drop his apparently very credible good guy mask and radically return to “factory setting.”
Either way the skein is untangled, it argues that the dye was cast and this guy was factory set as an abuser way back in childhood whether he was actively controlling and conditioning Trapped for years by playing on her fears in subtle or unsubtle ways or because he’s radically compartmentalized and, for a long stretch of time, actually fully invested in this loving-seeming, non-abusive persona.
Speaking of hopium-free skein untangling, the latter theory of radical compartmentalization has been applied to not only batterers but– extra yikes– serial killers, sometimes referred to as “cubing” because of the BTK serial killer’s descriptions of his own mental processes. The concept has been speculatively applied to a broad range of serial offender and can be helpful for victims, advocates, the public and law enforcement to understand since the theory potentially explains why these types of offenders are so seamlessly credible– because the best liars, like method actors, believe their own lies.
When the theory of radical compartmentalization has been applied to batterers, there’s another theory that occasionally crops up in attempts to explain the underlying MO and some of the more mystifying contradictory behaviors of domestic abusers called “masked dependency.” The concept of masked dependency was first applied politically by social psychologist and philosopher Erich Fromm to explain the universal psychological and emotional dependency of oppressors on their subjugated victims, a dependency that’s also accompanied by a catastrophic sense of shame and consequent efforts to overcompensate for those intolerable feelings of vulnerability through snowballing hostility and brutality against victims.
Masked dependency could obviously have potential application to domestic abuse– the idea that abusive personalities, because they were typically raised in dysfunctional “kill or be killed” home environments in which vulnerability was punished, end up feeling deeply ashamed of their (more exaggerated than average) infantile emotional dependence on primary partners and begin to resent the power they paranoically imagine their partners wield over them. This sense of shame regarding dependency could arguably lead to overcompensation by being increasingly abusive and “discarding” towards partners, all while “masking” the underlying reason for this, which is an intolerable feeling of vulnerability due to fears the partner might abandon or betray them.
I always thought “masked dependency” also fit cheating very well since cheating is arguably one way to “mask” internally driven fears of abandonment/betrayal by a primary partner. For one, cheating could be an “end around” to someone with a “kill or be killed” mentality and paranoid fear of betrayal– meaning they betray before they’re betrayed which helps mask their own sense of vulnerability by displacing all that pain, shock and fear onto the partner (displacement is apparently a thing with a lot of cluster B disorders– making others feel one’s own negative emotions as if doing so would spare one from those negative emotions). Cheating might also help mask dependency by diluting it– spreading the emotional dependency out among more than one partner– as well as hedging bets against abandonment by forming Plan B backup relationships.
Regarding cheating as a “dilution” strategy to mask dependency from themselves and others, the fact that some cheaters appear to eventually shift a lot of their emotional dependency away from primary partners and onto affair partners could potentially explain why some act like dogs attacking their former “masters” on the orders of new masters. But the pathological nature of dependency in abusers could suggest that the shift in fealty/loyalty/dependency from one partner to another is never complete so the same cheaters who appeared to discard and emotionally bash their partners as worthless might still feel enraged when victims manage to escape of their own accord and, worse still, move on to subsequent happier lives and relationships.
In other words, masked dependency could explain or even predict post-separation abuse. Like a dog with two bones, abusers may still bury the one they’re tired of chewing on to prevent other dogs from getting it and growl maniacally if any dog comes close to the burial site. The “burying” could be proverbial and involve attempts to crush victims’ self esteem or reputations as means of causing social isolation or, worse, could involve literal burying as in cases of cheaters like Chris Watts, Scott Peterson and Fotis Dulos.
Unlike dogs, even a not particularly brilliant human abuser has enough intellectual wherewithal to deny and disguise their true motives for doing this to the point that it can be very confusing for not only victims and bystanders but also law enforcement and FBI profilers. For instance, I never quite bought Chris Watts’ explanation to police about why he killed his wife and angrily dumped her body face down in a shallow grave. Watts said that he was enraged at Shanann for being in the way of his affair. But he also contradicted this by admitting that he’d killed her after she’d threatened him with divorce upon discovering the affair. By the same token, he may also have killed his own children rather than seeing them eventually raised by another man. But depending on how deep his need to mask his own shameful dependency was, it would fit the theory if Watts actually risked harsher criminal sentencing by copping to the more cold-blooded motive of getting his wife and kids “out of the way” rather than the more pathetic and wormily infantile sounding motive of making sure they could never replace him.
According to the theory of masked dependency, abusers like this will always conceal from themselves and others the real reasons they abuse partners and will offer instead an array of nonsensical “red herring” excuses and alibis for brutal behavior.
Some of the alibis for cheating might appear designed to make the abuser seem more “morally justified” in abusing a partner while others may make the abuser look even more cold-blooded. But the giveaway that all of it may be intended to conceal actual motive is that, if you think about it, it really makes very little sense that someone who wants to separate and be free to form another relationship wouldn’t do everything they could to encourage their original partners to do the same, including building up that partners sense of self esteem and hopes for the future. Yet cheaters instead mostly seem to do the reverse– emotionally cripple their chumps (to the point of seeming to commit emotional forms of FGM or castration) with attacks on self esteem as well as socially isolating them through smear campaigns. It’s all just the snarling of a dog with two bones that hadn’t entirely given up ownership of the first bone.
What I’m suggesting is that the reason Trapped’s ex’s rewriting and post-separation smear campaigns make no sense is that they may be both a distraction for the true underlying reasons for cheating and post-separation abuse as well as a campaign to emotionally cripple Trapped and socially isolate her to prevent her from moving forward towards her fabulous abuser-free future. It could also be predictive of future escalation so that’s all the more reason to go as gray rock as possible and even implement certain security measures.
“It’s all just the snarling of a dog with two bones that hadn’t entirely given up ownership of the first bone.”
This is perfect. My ex had a 6 year affair. Then moved out and dated loads of women for a almost a year. The dating ended with him finding a serious gf 4 months ago. They are already talking marriage. NONE of the above facts have stopped him from worrying about MY dating life. Many, many fights over the past year were him accusing me of seeing someone. I am not. I have not even considered it. I have NO interest. I may NEVER have interest again, but for sure it’s the last thing on my mind currently. We aren’t even divorced yet. We are in the process but that just started. I need to get through this process of divorce and then have so much work to do on myself before I can even imagine I’d want to date. I try to think “you never know” or “never say never” and I acknowledge it’s early days, but currently I don’t see myself as ever getting to the point of wanting to deal with all that.
Whether I do or don’t date isn’t really the point. As recently as a week ago, he was harping on it. DESPITE his 6 year affair, followed by 8 months of dating that culminated in him finding his new very serious gf. He has been angry with me every step of the divorce process, complaining that I will not reconcile. I’m just “throwing away decades”. All of this while he is planning his future with new gf.
If that isn’t a dog with 2 bones? I don’t know what it is.
That’s definitely classic dog-with-two-bones stuff which, in a human being and in the context of intimate relationships is totally bone-chilling “REDRUM” stuff. Your cortisol levels must be around the same as military personnel in active combat. I suspect it doesn’t even matter to your lizard brain if he’s physically or tactically capable of killing you since he’s giving off every prehistoric, lizard-brain-triggering cue that he “might be.” I think that’s probably enough threat-signalling to send anyone’s autonomic risk management faculty into overdrive.
Not that coupling up is the only way to be happy or that single people can’t lead amazing lives but I wouldn’t be surprised if you underwent some very sudden, radical shift in your view of dating once you’re finally divorced from and at a safe distance from your suffocating, terrifying POS stbx because I think that, currently, this guy is hacking your psyche with terror tactics.
Watch some of the presentations by Dr. Christine Cocciola regarding the paralyzing power of coercive control even on people highly educated in victimology and the dynamics of domestic abuse, coercion and control. She herself had been trained to recognize the cycle of abuse, etc., yet felt helpless to ward off the psychological effects until she was finally out of firing range. It’s like we can’t even want things the people terrorizing us don’t approve of us wanting until we’re completely out of their orbit.
I know the idea that an abuser has that level of control over the desires, feelings and thoughts of a victim is often construed in pop-culture as “weakness” or even masochism on the part of victims. But the effect is so expected and predictable in the case of combat-trained, veteran intelligence operatives who are captured and interrogated by the enemy that, upon escape or release, they’re all automatically deprogrammed to counter any captor-bonding or learned helplessness they developed in captivity. What this suggests is that this “hackability” is just human and hardwired, not some sign of particular pathology or weakness on the part of victims.
Thank you! Very helpful comment.
I will checkout Dr. Christine Cocciola.
Trapped,
While I agree with EVERY-SINGLE-WORD our beloved Chump Lady responded with, I just wanted to point out the sad truth that the majority of chumps end up divorcing someone they still have love for. You aren’t broken to still feel that way. The bond takes time to sever, and perspective takes time to develop. Both of those things can only come through an arduous and long investment in the healing process.
Tracy’s right to suggest you need to shelve those memories and feelings right now because they are what will get in the way of your accepting the reality of who your FW is RIGHT NOW–the lying, cheating, miscreant who put you in this position.
But I also wanted to point out that much later, after you’ve largely healed and started rebuilding your life, you may, or you may not have the desire to revisit some of those thoughts and feelings about the ‘better times’. And if you are one of those who desire this and can, you’ll be able to do so without all the emotional baggage attached.
I was able to do exactly that, and I’ll share why it was so important to me.
I spent the first 2 years of healing wrestling with the idea that my entire 40 year marriage was a lie. It took a ton of stabilizing, healing and being able to look at everything much more objectively before I realized that he couldn’t take away everything I experienced throughout those years because all of those thoughts, feelings and experiences were MINE, not his.
I’m proud that so many of the great things I choose to look back on now aren’t necessarily because of him, but because those moments represent me, the adventures I had, and the many fulfilling decisions I made for myself along the way.
OR
You can be one of those chumps who decide their new station in life is better served by only facing forward. Both are good, healthy, and very okay. Only you get to decide.
Welcome to the club nobody wants to join.
(((hugs)))
This reddit post is great example of the sheer audacity and entitlement of these cheaters. They don’t feel the same way normal people do, so they just don’t respond in the same way.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1ercj0j/i_35m_cheated_on_my_wife_36f_she_left_without/
Also, this post highlights how effective no contact is (obviously, if you had kiddos w/your FW you can’t disappear like OOPs ex did). Brava sis! Brava!
I just read that post and damn that guy creeps me out. To him, she is just a possession and he can’t fathom how his former wife can have agency, self-respect, move on, and be happy with someone else.
How he talks about the one-time fling with the gym rat implies he thinks women in general are things/toys. Toys can’t impose consequences, how dare they! Here’s a simple idea: don’t cheat. Many, many people manage this. He’s baffled that he’s facing consequences for his actions. Pobrecito.
Hopefully he can’t afford to travel to Norway. Take the L and move on, man.
To.add to LACGAL..my book of books to sniff out the lies and tactics that cheaters around the world us…there is another book that has the thought process and deception of covert cheaters who can act like a Shakespearean professional. It is called Steps to Freedom, escaping intimate control by Don Hessesy
.I think an Irishman. How these cheaters get in your head and can control how you think of them and how you act and what you think of yourself..all INTENTIONALand thought through. Chilling.. The goodness you see at first may be sincere but their character has a missing chip and they cannot love anyone, only their own survival. There is an alien inside. Tracy has it all in her book and Don Hennesy says get yourself ready to go, whatever it takes. ..it is evil all the way through. Lies and acting get them what they want, you are only of use.
I think this is just the feeling created by being married to someone who led a double life. I’m 5 years out from DDay and I still sometimes think about how we were best friends, close in so many ways and he was loving (until he started being a total asshole – thus that spiral down). It’s super confusing and I’m not sure it ever makes sense. My therapist said it’s this kind of gaslighting/living in a false reality stuff that is the hardest to heal from.
Unfortunately the lesson I learnt after years of gaslighting was I couldn’t really trust my own account of the relationship or of FW. Even memories where I know I was physically present and saw or heard something, I doubt the reliability of that memory. I trust myself in all other parts of my life that aren’t connected to FW- but that part, nah.
There is a great Wendy Cope poem called Defining the Problem:
I can’t forgive you. Even if I could,
You wouldn’t pardon me for seeing through you.
And yet I cannot cure myself of love
For what I thought you were before I knew you.
This describes so well what I felt after D-day; how could I forgive a man who never asked for forgiveness, but even though I knew that I would not now be with him if he were alive, I couldn’t stop loving him. I think we are like those people who experience phantom pain from an amputated limb – we cannot just turn off the feelings we had towards those we loved even when we accept our marriage is dead and the FW should be amputated from us. Eventually though, the feelings will dissapate and some Tuesday we realise we are cured.
This post could not have come at a more appropriate time! I am feeling so so confused with my FW cheater – I actually feel bad for him. He had a 2.5 year affair with his direct report (14 years younger, big boobs, big teeth, small morals) and told me she is a love of his life.
Me being the chump went straight into marriage counselling and we were working on the resolution. He lied through the process, saw her on the side and blindsided me with asking for divorce 2 months after the D-Day. In their messages they talk about being meant for each other and him feeling like he knew her all his life, blah blah blah. He forgot about his two kids, his wife and his big mortgage.
Now that he is pushing for the divorce and comes home stanking of her cologne, he tells me that it was not about her, it was about us and him being so unhappy for years, while I thought we had a happy, average, content marriage. I am so flipping confused because a) what if it was partially my fault, b) what if she is the love of his life and the only person he can be happy with and I am standing on their way, that I am starting to feel bad FOR HIM!
Someone please bitchslap me to my senses!!!!
I loved a man who wasn’t there.
That’s what we have to come to grips with.
This is one of those CL columns when my head was nodding up and down so much, I felt like a bobble head. Every comment was so on point!