UBT: Envy Kills More Marriages Than Infidelity
The Universal Bullshit Translator digests The Holistic Psychologist’s claim that envy kills more marriages than infidelity does.
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Hi Chump Lady!
I attached a screenshot from an Instagram account I generally like, and this post upset me. Can you ask the UBT to take a look?
Sing Along Chump
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Dear Sing Along Chump,
On the face of it, this isn’t bad advice — marry someone who wants to see you succeed. I think your point of contention is comparing envy to infidelity and declaring the greater harm envy.
The Universal Bullshit Translator is at your service.
Callings and passion
Marry the person who has found their calling and passion.
Okay. Could their calling and passion be unloading the dishwasher? The UBT is a practical machine.
What if their calling and passion is opening a kite boarding shop and going $20K into credit card debt? Perhaps wait to marry them until after the kite board fever has broken.
The UBT is a utilitarian apparatus. Calling and passions are fine, but domesticity tends to be more about dishwashing and paying bills on time. The UBT is worried that someone who sees their life as a grand operatic passion will not concern themselves with the minutia of shared responsibility. But that doesn’t make for a snappy Instagram post.
Envy and infidelity
Envy kills more marriages than infidelity does.
Is there a death registry? Do we have statistics on this?
Let’s compare these two scenarios:
I hacked my husband’s phone and discovered he has a secret passion for kite boarding. Versus. I hacked my husband’s phone and discovered he has a double life with someone named Doris.
This filled me with profound jealousy for kite boarding! For Doris! WHO IS SHE?
Can you breed with a kite board? The husband has a second family with Doris.
Come on, Holistic Psychologist. These things are not equivalent. Being insufficiently supportive of your partner’s dreams is not the same thing as f*cking strange and bringing home gonorrhea.
Let us all rise
Marry someone who loves to see you rise because they’re rising too.
That’s nice. That’s preferable to “sulking in a closet while you attend the awards ceremony solo.” But it’s not the hanging offense infidelity is.
The UBT would point out that the Holistic Psychologist, “Claire, 33, has been married to Tom for 3 years…” appears to have zero personal knowledge of chumpdom. But probably does understand what it is to feel covetousness. And speaking from her ass, would like us to understand that covetousness is really BAD. Whereas cheating is something we shouldn’t take too seriously as marriage ending. It’s nothing on par with not supporting your partner’s kite boarding passion. Ask a divorce lawyer. They’ll tell you.
I think that the Holistic Psychologist might need to maybe just take a break from the Internet for a bit.
From my perspective, I’d reframe “Marry the person who has found their calling and their passion,” as “Look for the person who doesn’t need to blow your candle out to make their candle look brighter …. find someone who admires your candle rather than being threatened by it.”
LFTT
💯☝️
I think that the cheating itself is frequently a manifestation of a FW’s envy/resentment, and subconscious, desire to take a chump ‘down a peg or two’ (ie cheating controls a chump who’s ‘strayed outside the line’) – just at the moment when the chump is achieving something special.
It’s a form of coercive control to ensure the Cheater remains dominant in the relationship. Just in case the chump starts to get uppity with any sparkly accolades. (I don’t think the FW is even conscious of this driver).
This happened to me with each FW and the timing was too coincidental not to have been a significant factor.
With FW 1 we had been in the same profession (I had been a SAHM and part time worker as our children were raised).
I achieved entry into a global jurisdiction, edited a book, and led a project in a realm that was highly selective and very covetable for that particular profession.
That achievement represented ten plus years of incredibly hard work by me. FW 1’s in real time, immediate response? Fury, emotional abuse, cheating…
With FW2, I acheived entry into an Oxbridge course, (this time in a different area to FW1s professional realm above).
This was something that I had dearly wanted for many years, perhaps a lifetime. I had worked, again, incredibly hard for it. It should have been a source of joy for me. FW 2’s in real time response? You guessed it gaslighting and cheating….
How many others of us experienced this connected ‘conincidence’?
My two achievements had huge personal meaning for me. They reflected my values, my skills- my heart, my mind and my soul.
They were a professional manifestation of who I truly am. I would do them again in a heartbeat.
I’m so glad FW 1 and 2 are gone now.
Perfectly said!
The “Holistic Psychologist” is an interesting character, and in an open marriage or thrupple.
If her account is still around in a few years, I would imagine her tempo is going to shift to “where have all the good men/women gone?” when the metaphysical bills she racks up with polyamory come due. It’s her pop-psych BS why I think more people are choosing their peace.
Agree that infidelity is worse than envy – however sometimes they are linked – the envy leading the FW to seek comfort elsewhere with someone who is going to think they are wonderful. Mine was envious of my success but reframed that as my disloyalty and lack of love this justifying the affair. Excess envy is often based on narcissism.
A very good point, totall agree, especially with it being based in narcissism. I was married to FW#2 who was professionally diagnosed with NPD and he blamed his job loss on me and said the affiar was revenge for me causing me to lose his job? Yeesh…never mind him making a ton of mistakes that caused it!
When I saw this post, I didn’t see any contradiction. Envy and infidelity are not mutually exclusive in my world. This is because my FW turned to cheating in an attempt to “even the scales” since he felt inadequate in terms of comparing our careers. Throughout our marriage he resented me having opportunities and success and turned to questionable means of earning money just to stay slightly above me in terms of overall income earned. The competitiveness and slow burning hostility undertone was the foundation of his treatment of me and he ultimately found someone entirely non-threatening as his AP (young, uneducated, entry-level job holder who now stays at home). He felt inadequate next to any successful man and wanted to feel like an alpha at least at home.
This⬆️is so sadly true. Non threatening AP, subservient can be dominated, from another culture, they are back on the throne and central, whatever it takes. Slow, simmering resentment..so true for me x2
Yep. Seems like we have all had an experience with this with our FW’s.
You are right here too. Whenever I did well my XhC would sulk..He REQUIRED central stage and if the spotlight moved from him, that was a good reason to find other worshippers.
You know, I just realized that the year I first broke the $500,000 earnings barrier is also the year FW “let me” catch him cheating. I don’t think that was the first time he cheated, but I do think he was deliberately careless at that specific time.
D days and cheaters being deliberately careless so you find out…especially when cheaters are feeling insecure, jealous or as my ExhC did… an I’LL SHOW YOU who’s special…very interesting consideration in untangling the untangleble skein
Hogwash from the moron insta psychologist aside, I would agree with this take on envy and Narcissism.
FW narcopath is an executive now but early on I was climbing faster and made more money within a few years which didn’t make him feel good. We already had DDay #1 and I should have left. Because of raising kids I went part time in a lower paying field but that only fed his arrogance and entitlement. Hooker habit!
When I won public accolades in that field he “jokingly” dismissed it in front friends who were congratulating me.
You just can’t win with a Narcissistic personality disordered FW. They’re incapable of being a truly supportive loving spouse.
I really like the term Narcopath! That’s exactly what mine was! Sam Vaknin on youtube says that when narsissists suffer mortification (like when mine was fired from his favorite narc supply job ever) he had a meltdown and became a secondary psychopath. A Narcopath!
What would that even feel like? I learned no matter what I did, to make sure HE got praised too.
Bad advice for sure. Mine found his passion (ballroom dance instruction), was still constantly envious of me (tore me down at every turn, esp. professionally) and was also a cheater.
Rarity, have you see the movie DANCE WITH ME with Richard Gere and Jlo? It’s an emotional affair called not an affair to keep us chumps relieved. When someone tears you down they are having emotional affairs and mire. They have to make themselves feel better, no matter what
Same as mine! (Except for the different passion).
In my case, it’s likely that cheater’s jealousy of my success led to his lies about himself, and then perhaps to cheating as a way to feel superior to me and to put me down.
I won numerous national awards in my field, which was very public. Cheater not only ignored the awards, he also denigrated my position to others. It was as if I was, say, a cabinet secretary, and he told people I worked as a secretary for some little town. I was shocked speechless when I overheard him say that to his coworkers at a party. Fortunately, one colleague –who was also my friend– spoke up, named my position and organization, and said she wouldn’t call that little.
He fabricated credentials, degrees and awards in order to get recognition similar to mine. Then he resorted to finding a young woman on the internet and planned to marry her, specifically so others would wonder what he had “to get such a hot babe on his arm.” As I mentioned recently, he actually said he wanted someone stupid who wouldn’t question him.
He never acknowledged my accomplishments, not even a card or a text, let alone a party. While I don’t know if he was sulking in the closet, he never once attended any awards ceremonies for me, even the one that was broadcast on national TV.
I think in the book Runaway Husbands the author says her FW left her right when she went on a massive book tour celebrating her success and receiving awards. He just couldn’t take it or simply wanted to upstage/sabotage her. Very familiar to me.
Insecure JERK,
GoodFriend,
Congratulations on being able to succeed despite a spouse not supporting you (which ends up making everything harder).
I was never a nationally known Successful Person but I did eventually design a model of functioning in my area of expertise that (for a time) brought me attention and praise. I had toiled quietly for decades and was ok with that and my Cheater was accustomed to the spotlight being on him.
Based on the secrets I dug up…I think that my success (and the attention and respect I gained in the moment) came at about the time that Cheater realized that the skeletons in his closet were legion and if ever exposed, public opinion would not go well for him. I knew about one OW and thought that was it but there were likely many more and I had no clue. He had moments of looking panicked.
I think it’s super cool that you were so successful. Chump Pride flag flying
There are those who walk amongst us who really think that Figuring Everything Out is a reasonable and realistic goal. They think that they can even prevent infidelity and all other relationship ills if the only figure out that magic fairy dust….and Claire thinks it is getting a partner who has already found their calling and passion.
Oh Claire….life and humans are so much more complex than that…and it wont “affair proof” your marriage (not that she said it would but it was veering in that direction).
I used to read a Christian based portal where about 20 different writers posted essays on all sorts of topics (with a Christian spin). One gal wrote on “Relationship Mastery” (her phrase, no kidding). By the time I stumbled onto that site, I had already been Chumped and the idea that someone would claim to have mastery over relationships (with other actual human beings) who have free will and agency…it boggled my mind. It rang of absolute desperation to control others…which – if you understand Free Will – is antithetical to Christianity in the first place.
(Another essayist wrote that women who are really loved by their spouses were more special to God than other women)
I tried my best to write kind, reasonable explanations to these 2 writers of how their philosophies were not consistent with basic Christian teachings, but eventually gave up.
I am, yet again, thankful that the internet didnt exist when I was young and clueless and thought I had Figured Everything Out.
Yes, I went down that rabbit hole too, ignoring free will and thinking that if I just had the right formula, I could save my marriage. Nevermind the horrible choices that my husband was making that were marriage-breaking.
After he left for the final time, there were people at church who gave me the “lots of sex and better dinners” talk, as if that would have kept him home. They did that for years, even post-divorce. Not at all, in his case. He had decided to ditch marriage and family and go off to the beach to find himself. Period. Some time later, one of his siblings was claiming that if we relocated to a new place and started over, that would do it. No way. All of our problems would be there too, and I completely didn’t trust my then-husband at that point.
So I ditched his family, and we divorced. Ultimately, I ditched that church as well. I found a church that doesn’t bug me for being divorced. Frankly, I waited too long to do that. Good now, though.
“Lots of sex and better dinners!” Haha, so funny! Sounds like it could be a country western song!
Sure could be!
I actually tried it. Didn’t work. We had a lot of sex, and I made fancier dinners.
He left anyway, TWICE.
When people shamed me with that, I didn’t even go there, as confused as I was. I just said, “None of your business on either front.”
Deeply steeped in faith-focused hope, I hung in there for YEARS both in a cloaked abandonment (he left but said he wasn’t leaving leaving, he was just “working” 3000 miles away) and later in a wreckonsillyation. He moved back but complained and moaned as if he had personally invented suffering.
I finally gave up and prayed to God that I would no longer try to keep him connected to our family “if there is a place where he could be happy, I free him from obligation to us, he can go”. Within about 2 weeks, he dropped dead. Straight-up, I thought he would go to California, not Purgatory.
Oh my Unicornomore..!!!! Gosh I did LOL for a second there. Sorry though cos that also would have come with its own shite buffet. But wow, as DOAC said, what an unexpected answer to prayer that was.
Wow, that was a direct answer to a prayer.
Oh, my. An unusual answer to prayer, indeed.
Mine ran off to the beach and stayed there, other than coming back to get his stuff and put the family house on the market. The attorneys weren’t involved yet, but I was glad to have that financial cushion for what I felt was inevitable. He thought selling the house would force me to reconcile. Nope. We had moved out already.
He is now in his seventies, remains in a beach area, and is in very poor health, last I knew. We haven’t heard from him in years. But yes, if he were no longer on this earth, there would be a measure of relief.
More than infidelity? Hmm…interesting sound bite. What if you have both?
I thought that I had married someone who wanted both of us to shine. He claimed that he didn’t care that I had the better job and made more $$$. And he claimed that he wanted kids.
Well, come to find out when the marriage was cracking, all of that was hogwash. In retrospect, he wanted to be the only one who shone. He deeply resented our children and me. While separated, he even talked about completely cutting our college kids out of our lives if we reconciled because he viewed them as competition for my affection. By the way, he also said the same about the dog we had adopted after we separated, saying that she would have to be euthanized if we reconciled. Of course, he also denied all that in another conversation. And I knew there was infidelity despite all of his work to hide it. Ultimately, it came to light during the divorce process.
Big nope. One time, my long-term therapist commented that my ex really hadn’t been marriage material with all of his mental health issues. He showed signs of borderline personality disorder from the very beginning and then became a pill addict, which brought in elements of narcassism. There wasn’t anything to work with in the end.
Wow, IF you reconciled, your dog would have to be put down? That’s a big no reconciliation ever right there.
One thing’s for sure, if it’s a choice between a man and my dog…I’m choosing my dog.
I was never envious. I fully supported him finding his “calling and passion.” It turned out that one of his passionate callings was another women.
During those years of his engagement with his passionate calling he loved to see me rise (hobby) because it took me away for the weekends.
Jeesh. You can’t make this sick sad stuff up.
I hear you. Happened to me, too. When you pull somebody up, they don’t prepare you for them stepping on your shoulders and kicking you down when they don’t need you anymore.
Today i Laughed so hard over this blog!!!!! The turn of words in so funny!!!
False Equivalency from the IGNORANT. How many chumps have been accused of this. My #1 ExhC said I liked a guy I worked with in the ER.I had to work with him and he was fun, but never ever have an affair with him!! This is what my ExhC told our TEEN daughter as a false Equivalency as COMPARED to his 2.5 year affair. So let’s call it what it is, another lie to excuse cheating..not unlike the excuses of “you bother me with your throat clearing, gas, grey hair that makes me feel old, too occupied with—————–fill in the blank “..that moving goal post. You’re jealous? The marriage must end. My XhC had ongoing emotional affairs. I beat the jealousy out of me as I thought all these woman wanted what I had. Crazy right? I had no idea he was grooming me to allow more, given I was so understanding ..until he blossomed his full force basement life. Who knew?
I have to say that with Tracy in my head ALL THE TIME, I have never been the same. I can read the blue print 🖨 within minutes. Tracy has the key that unlocks 🔑 the lies that cheaters tells us and the lies we tell ourselves. I might be one of the chumps freed from hell but there is also a UBT within my soul. I can never be the same.
I have learned that generally speaking for chumps, whatever we did or didn’t do, the opposite will be the reason for their cheating.
Makes no diff what you do or don’t do. FWs will find an excuse.
Yes! Exactly!
Manipulators manipulate. You can’t deal with it at all. Period.
If anybody needs a living, breathing, wet sample of what false equivalency is-look no further!
Why, yes, you should absolutely marry somebody that has found their calling and passion…and is realistic about it(I like the kiteboarding example).
I imagine that more than a few marriages have and do founder because one person is grinding while one person drifts.
A 50-word-or-less infographic on a pop-psychology Insta should not be convincing anybody that a lack of drive is less ok than infidelity though (at least that wasn’t looking for confirmation bias). I just don’t see the connection.
We can boil the whole infographic down to “fix your picker” and call it a day.
See I dunno otherwise…it happens I already had my passion and drive when I met my Traitor. I’ve known what I wanted to be since I was 14. I’ve been blessed to achieve that dream and am privileged to get to dream some more. I pulled her up so she could have her dream, too. Doors were opened for me, so I opened them for her. Just like the picture said!
Look at where THAT got me.
It got me used. It got me betrayed. And it turned out that the jealousy and paranoia was VERY well placed.
Maybe you need to marry somebody that has a passion and a dream…but is also passionate about “us” and wants to keep working on that, too. And also that person should probably be comfortable with who they are and who you are as well. And maybe…JUST MAYBE…see you as something more than a stepping stone to whatever deluded greatness they think they are owed.
Have a Mighty Monday!
Jeff,
I suspect that the problem that many of our Cheaters suffer from is that they frame things in terms of a “Zero Sum Game” and thus they can only be winning if someone else (usually their Chump) is losing. The whole concept of a “Positive Sum Game” is entirely beyond them.
And “Have a Mighty Monday” to you too.
LFTT
Yes, my wonderful attorney used that term. My STBX had to win, period, and trying to squash me in the divorce made perfect sense to his twisted mind. My attorney said we just had to find the weak point or the pivot. Ultimately, my attorney’s strategy came out as he interacted more and more with opposing counsel. My husband’s own attorney was getting sick of his client and how long it was taking for what should have been a simple settlement. He had other cases that he truly cared about, not my STBX’s case.
So my attorney leveraged that, and we settled in a wild flourish. Of course, my ex claimed for years that the attorneys were crooked and horrible. It wasn’t him. Yes, it was.
Personally I think cheaters are the most envious people on the planet so why choose just one cause of marital demise when you can experience both?
Not everyone differentiates envy from jealousy but I think the two are different with envy being about coveting what others have and jealousy being about defending what’s supposed to be yours. Then you can parse jealousy further into “warranted”– in the case someone really is trying to filch something that’s yours– or projected and paranoid.
Anyway, I think you can add “paranoid projected jealousy” to the list of destructive crap most cheaters engage in. Triple the fun.
That’s a helpful distinction – thanks. It sits well with the OT ‘I am a jealous God’ verses.
Jealousy is just the knee-jerk, lightning fast animal instinct to defend before the mind even processes the nature of the threat. If it was always dysfunctional to be “jealous” in a territorial sense, mothers wouldn’t be so ferociously protective of their young and most species wouldn’t have survived.
I agree with Holistic. The day after my FW graduated, and weeks before he actually got a job, I asked him to run the vacuum. He replied “Oh, no. I don’t do that. I’m a doctor.” I was quite envious of this entitlement. I was not a doctor, just a mom with an infant and a part-time job. Of course I was envious and check it: Thirty three years later my marriage ended when FW asked me to move out of my home so his mistress could move in. Turns out that while I was home climbing ladders to change light bulbs and clearing clogs from drains, he was out having food and wine and sex in beachfront time-shares. And I was envious, extremely envious. So the marriage ended. Thanks, Holistic, because I was wondering what went wrong…
Wow!
In my experience, doctors are the dirtballs of the universe. They think that white coat gives them license to hang up their shingle and their morals at the same time. Worked around them for a long time and can’t even be surprised anymore. I feel the most pity for the spouses who slaved to put them through school and then were discarded.
But, if the spouses have a good lawyer, they can get those $ back in the settlement.
Might get some $ back… but so much more is lost that $ can’t buy, and time and therapy may never heal the trauma and pain…
What a creep, BT. I wish I could give you those 33 years back. It was 40 for me.
False equivalency. Sounds good but doesn’t make sense. Thank you UBT! You da best!!!
Every smart Southern girl learns from her mother to never ever let a boy know that she is smarter than he is. Cheating on her is the least of what he’ll do – and we already know that if the female partner earns more than the male partner, he is 5 times more likely to be unfaithful. I haven’t looked for statistics on how much more likely the husband is to beat his wife if she’s the brain of the family. I’d be scared to know! I personally feel there is no “safe” partner to be found anywhere. Memes like this one only serve to blame the victim.
I’m with the UBT on this one. Advice that sounds good on paper, but doesn’t work so well in the real world.