Cheating Ex Wants to Come Over for ‘Family Dinners’
Her cheating ex wants to come over for family dinners. Because cake is being served. How can she find her boundaries?
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Dear Chump Lady,
Today marks exactly one month since D-day. My soon-to-be ex-husband told me over the phone, as I was at work, that he was having an emotional affair with our neighbor (who was supposed to be my friend).
Her family and ours spent so much time together. He told me that she is his “soul mate” and he’s in love with her and “fate put her across the street.” No mind our 16-year marriage and 4 kids (the youngest is 6 months old).
This started while I was pregnant.
Her husband and I separately were telling them how uncomfortable their “friendship” made us. I did the typical pick me dance the first day. He told me:
- “I’ll always love you (you are the mother of our kids) but not in love with you“.
- “If you had just given me what I needed this would not have ever happened.” (I was busy working full time and raising our kids.)
- “I/ we feel really bad about how this happened.”
But they continue to see each other.
I almost bought into the fix your marriage counseling and then started your book and realized I would never be able to fully trust him. He is not the same person I married. We had our anniversary and celebrated two weeks before D-day and he said he wanted it to be special since he knew it would be our last one.
Also has blamed me for a Disney trip in 2019, a travel trailer we bought, the Ford Expedition I bought as a family vehicle that he liked at the time, the remodel that we did a year ago. Also blames me for his business (self-employed remodeler) not being successful since I was too busy working.
He is a “good” dad but I have come to realize so incredibly selfish. It is still hard because I am heartbroken, angry, hurt and mad that that I can still care. I know you said that the end of the story is we survive, but it is just so hard to see the end of the road. I want them to be miserable people since he finally has his secretary/manager he wanted.
Lastly, he is still trying to keep a little string attached, which I am trying to break of him wanting to come to the house for dinners, maintaining the pool and fixing things that may break. Also wants to continue to “co-parent” by going to kids events together… I feel like he is trying to get his kibbles and have his cake.
Sincerely,
Chumpmom
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Dear Chumpmom,
If your cheating ex wants to come over, you don’t have to let him. He may want many things. A cool drink of water in hell, as the expression goes. Those wants and desires aren’t your job any longer. He fired you from caring when he fucked around.
There is no way I would serve a man — who cheated on me while I was pregnant — dinner. Unless it was shards of glass. I mean, Holy Entitlement Batman! You have FOUR CHILDREN AND A FULL-TIME JOB!
In a world where he’s just your under-employed husband and not a complete waste of carbon, why can’t he cook YOU dinner?
Oh right, because you’re divorcing thanks to his wandering dick.
Chumpmom, you need a master class in boundaries. Let’s review:
wanting to come to the house for dinners
maintaining the pool
fixing things that may break
Oh, like your broken heart? Still…
He is not welcome in your life.
That means, he doesn’t get to be Lord of Cake, coming and going as he pleases. Enjoying the benefits of the family he abandoned. Or trotting out his home repair impression management. (How many fuckwits does it take to change a lightbulb? Zero… they’re too busy screwing other things.)
No! It’s a complete sentence.
The only thing you have to do going forward is obey court orders. He probably will be allowed to go to kids’ school events because that’s neutral ground. This does NOT mean he has to go with YOU. Or that you have to sit together on a bleacher seat for the children.
It means he’ll be an annoying peripheral presence. Like black fly season on Lake Michigan. Episodic, aggravating as hell, then it’s gone.
These are early days.
You made four children with this man. You invested your whole life in him. He’s banking that the bargaining stage of grief (maybe he can come FIX THINGS!) will allow him back in. Set a much higher price on your worth than pool maintenance. Fuck him!
Shore yourself up, be the sane parent, and only communicate through lawyers. He might have legal rights to the children, but he lost the privilege to be in YOUR life. Hold strong on your boundaries. No contact is the fastest track to healing.
He gets a contact high off your pain. He wants the centrality of your grief. Do not give it to him.
“We had our anniversary and celebrated two weeks before D-day and he said he wanted it to be special since he knew it would be our last one.”
Chumpmom- He knew a whole lot about your future. Now it’s your turn to take it back.
You need legal and financial advice immediately to protect your savings and retirement. You need a therapist to process this enormous betrayal which cannot be fixed by you. You need a support system of people who know the basic facts – family, friends, neighbors.
This is a fleeting opportunity to get the best settlement for you and your children. He has already started the DARVO and will only become more entrenched in his rationale.
Great point about the DARVO bs. I joke that narcissism should really be called “revisionitis” because I think it’s the main MO of the disorder: rewriting history, confabulating events and blameshifting. The focus on grandiose self image might even be a distraction from the main function of the disorder– appearing innocent and harmless when one is anything but. The grandiosity could even merely be overkill since, while a culpable person is about pretending to be innocent, why not pretend even more fun things like, er, godlike status, a bigger dick, genius IQ and a rippling physique?
But mostly I think the behavior exists because it’s quite an effective approach to criminal cover-up and self-exculpation: invest so deeply in your own lies that you end up believing them and thereby appearing credible to others because you’re not giving off that furtive, shifty guilty vibe that creeps most people out. People exceptionally skilled in this can always find jobs, say, doing Orwellian PR and censoring news reports for murderous totalitarian kleptocracies.
Anyway, I suspect that’s a large part of the reason why STBex-FW is hovering and hoovering– it’s part of his “blameless vibe” engineering. It helps him deepen his investment in his own DARVO lies the better to believe the lies himself and the better to credibly tell those lies to others. Consequently, every time Chumpmom lets him half an inch into her sphere, it’s as if she’s helping FW to convince the world “Yes, I agree with his blaming view of me. Yes, he is the victim and I was the perpetrator. Yes, I ‘drove’ him to do what he did and he is justified. Yes, I’m a ruinous bitch and deserved punishment and betrayal…”
No contact is partly about demonstrating we reject the smear campaign someone is committing against us. As a side effect, NC is probably also taken by abusers as disagreement with their inflated self images, saying in effect, “Not all that and a bag of chips. Come to think of it, rather a small dick, actually…”
“Blameless vibe.” This man is literally citing “fate” and “soulmate” as the reasons for infidelity – he has completely absolved himself of any culpability.
Unlike fact-based absolution, blameshifting lies are like hot air balloons and require an endless supply of gas and constant attendance to keep afloat.
Thank you for the response! We have already gone thru mediation. I get to keep our house and my 401k. He gets our rental. The kids stay with me and he gets standard visitation. I have realized that I have an amazing support system between family, friends and work and they have all rallied behind me. I have already started seeing a counselor who has helped.
You want a life?
This is how.
Keep everything separate. He has his time with the kids you have yours. Nothing together. Holidays, birthdays, etc.
You don’t go into his home or allow him in yours.
Communication should be text or email. Kids and divorce only. Ignore anything else. No response needed. Don’t be his emotional tampon.
This is your life not his.
Your rules apply. Kids will adjust.
I hope you told your kids the truth in a sanitized version. Never lie to your kids for him. Kids aren’t stupid and will deal better with a known versus being kept in the dark which just causes more anxiety.
If you can document marital funds dissipated on the AP, make sure to get those back in the settlement.
“The kids stay with me and he gets standard visitation.” — at his house, not at yours. You need to stay away from this horrible person. (Yes, horrible. Cheating while you’re pregnant = he’s worthless.)
If you can get a lawyer — a pitbull lawyer — to make sure that the agreement works in your favor, please do that. You are only a month out, and you’ve never done this before. Make sure that you are not agreeing to anything that will hurt you later. Who is paying for college? The dentist bills? What are the stipulations around meeting new partners? Your children are very small, and this is important.
It’s so good to hear you’ve got ride-or-die allies in your corner. Many trauma experts argue that that single factor can make a huge difference in trauma recovery since a large part of trauma is injured trust in others and “loss of esteem for the world” more than an injury to self-esteem. I think the idea is we can like ourselves just fine but, if no one else seems to agree, our faith in our ability to survive in the world alone– particularly following catastrophic betrayal and the typically attendant specter of post-separation abuse and abusers’ usual triangulation and group bullying — is called into question.
Along those lines, I think of going NC as possible as not only self-protective but a kindness to loyal supporters since, given that true allies with integrity are never drama-mongers who rely on the distraction of friends’ chaos for entertainment, if any ongoing drama is reduced to bare minimum by severely limiting or cutting contact with an abusive individual, the pressure on my allies and everyone important around me to help weather renewed drama is also reduced. Win-win!
I also love how limited to no contact deprives bullies of ongoing gossip and triangulation fodder. To inveterate victim-blamers, every tiny bit of renewed contact is another chance to confabulate, DARVO and rewrite the exchange to make the abuser come off like an innocent princess in a tower beset by an evil, crazy ogre. Without ongoing contact, abusers are stuck repeating confabulated renditions of past exchanges over and over and over to the point they end up boring the bejesus out of and eventually alienating even their own flying monkeys (which is just fun).
Chumpmom – If the divorce hasn’t actually been filed, please have your own independent lawyer look at it. I was not in any shape to evaluate a complex legal agreement just a few weeks out.
Boundaries and no direct contact will also help with clarity and healing.
Yes to the therapist, along with all the other legal counsel! The first one I tried wasn’t a good fit for me, but the second one I found (a PhD) was a godsend. When I first went to her, I remember actually saying, “Boundaries aren’t conducive to a romantic relationship.” Can you imagine?! I remember her wide eyes and response, “Boundaries are super important in a romantic relationship.” She helped me find the language I could use to set boundaries with my ex. She also helped uninstall the buttons he could push. His favorite was, “It’s best for (daughter’s name) if I…” The man that dragged her to family parties when she was sick with a fever, who didn’t take her home early from a BBQ when she was sick, who struggled to manage her diet to avoid constipation, and make sure the right parts were getting cleaned properly to avoid a rash had no business claiming he knew what was best for her. The list could go on.
Anything that’s important to you regarding the care & upbringing of your kids… get it in writing. My ex made promises about a few issues, but I was dumb enough in the early days to accept his word meant less than nothing. It took awhile during the divorce to really accept him for who he was.
Do not give the benefit of the doubt to the person that caused your doubts!
Oh NO!!!
Second what Tracy said. “No is a complete sentence”
Practice saying “no” into the mirror until you can say it with a neutral face.
Added bonus: you will need this ability as your kids get older so practicing boundaries now will make the teenage years much easier. Your fuckwit isn’t that much different than a willful child.
You owe him absolutely nothing that he wants just because he wants it. Unless it is court ordered, say NO.
Will he show up to kid school or sport events?
Maybe.
Do you need to inform him about time, date, location of ANY of the above events?
No.
Do you need to inform him about dates of school vacation or school closure dates?
No (check your court orders or build his contacting any schools for schedules himself into custody documents).
Is he capable of finding school or sport event schedules on his own?
Yes.
Do you need to inform him of children’s illness, your out of town travel with children, emergencies?
Maybe. Again, check any parenting agreement or make sure any further agreement includes what you want to do.
As for her? The ex-“friend”?
You owe her ZERO.
Set that boundary at the same time.
She doesn’t come into your house EVER. Talk to your lawyer about what limits you can set now that will stick for the future.
In my case, the AP/whore never comes to anything I am at. No birthday parties, weddings, family events. If I am there, she is never there. It’s been 14+ years and I haven’t seen her since I went to her to find out if she was indeed the AP. He’s the biological father of my kids so I cannot keep him away from those events but her? Yup.
It’s all about drawing boundaries.
Stand firm and respect yourself. If you are strong and truly learn to know your worth by drawing strong boundaries, other will learn to respect you and your boundaries as well. If you don’t stand up for yourself, no one else will.
We have your back here. Never forget you have a whole nation behind you.
Thank you! I am definitely learning new boundaries. I have already enforced that she is not allowed in my house to activities that I put on for the kids. Luckily, they are able to see who she really is and my 2 oldest don’s want anything to do with her right now. It will be hard in the future because when his house is ready, they will only be living 1/2 a mile from each other.
No is a one-word sentence. Use it, love it, tattoo it on your arm, seer it into your memory and apply it to the chode when needed. I said yes to family gatherings for a while, and it just caused more confusion and problems for myself and the boys. Eventually I said I am not going to do this anymore, and I felt much better.
If you say yes, you’ll get to watch him check out, text his lover, and cause confusion in your kids.
He blames you for everything!, yet still wants you to assist him in maintaining his good guy image. What a joke! It’s early days, hope you’re taking of business and getting a lawyer. He may think you won’t go after him for support (or much) if he softens you up by hanging around….so he has more cash to treat his fuck buddy. Remember this is a guy who is conspiring behind your back!! Don’t believe him for a second that it’s an emotional affair only, the only emotion involved is horniness! They have definitely done the deed. Get pissed, take care of business for you & your kids!
Yes, no way the cheaters weren’t fucking. Full STD testing panels are in order, including the western blot herpes and DNA HPV tests.
oh yes. It’s all my fault (not). We’ve already settled in mediation. I get child support, the main home and my 401k, plus majority time with the kids. He’s still in fantasy land that this is the best choice for him. I can’t wait for reality to set in and give him a swift kick in the ass.
Please remember that your fastest course to healing is ‘No Contact’. I know that you want to hear bad stuff about him right now, but I found that if I heard NOTHING about the Fuckwit, I healed much, much faster. I was able to gain a life because my focus was on me. You will also gain a life much faster because your focus will only be on you and your children. He is dead to you. Though he is still alive, behave towards him as if he’s a stranger. As CL says, ‘No’ is a complete sentence. Do not engage. Do not explain why the answer is “No”. It will be hard at first because you are very, very angry. But it’s not worth it. Your anger gives him fodder and justifies his behavior. Get a parenting app (I don’t know anything about them, but I’ve heard that people use them) and restrict all communication to the app. Don’t read his emails, just send them to some folder somewhere. You’re the sane parent. If you can see yourself as a widow, you will move forward much quicker.
Yes, it’s early. As one who has been there, adopt a wait-and-see approach. You can be polite and decent while choosing NOT to have your STBX in your space for your sake. Being friends with an ex is NOT required. Most people aren’t, frankly.
I naively thought we’d remain friends at a surface level because we had been together for several decades and had two kids who were in college at the time. We also lived many states apart by the time the attorneys got involved.
He promised a quick and easy divorce because “I will always love you.” He promised “more” than the law allowed.
Nah. Deep down, I knew it would be a mess and picked my attorney accordingly. It took way longer than it should have. My ex drove his attorney crazy, trying to control the process. His attorney and mine agreed to all kinds of useless language to try to keep things going. Ultimately we settled pretty much on the standard split, and then my ex made closeout the same until he ran out of issues and finally reportedly paired up again with someone more long-term. I no longer hear from him, nor do our adult kids.
It truly could have been so different, but so it was.
He is delusional in thinking that we can co-parent and remain friends. I told him friends don’t do what you did. They don’t lie and cheat. Boundaries are being set and he is realizing that I am not going to bend over backwards for him. He thought he did all the work and I’m showing him what that really looks like.
Definition of friend – loyal, honest, trustworthy.
Good dads don’t destroy their families.
No, I don’t get the whole “you’re horrid if you aren’t friends with your ex” narrative. It’s another aspect of the false belief that we have to forgive and forget, even after a messy breakup and divorce.
My ex left almost seven years ago, and there are still some people on the outskirts who ask me how he is doing as if it was a minor tiff or something. Just weird.
(music by David Bowie, lyrics by the Chump Nation Parody Machine)
Fate (fate) makes a man take a powder
Fate (fate) makes him obsess about her
Fate (fate) only makes the discard louder
Fate (fate)
Fate – she’s the treat across the street
That makes the marriage obsolete (see-eet)
Fate (fate)
Fate (fate) means he keeps the family dinner
Fate (fate) means that he’s the special winner
Fate (fate) oh the thing that he puts in her!
Fate (fate)
Fate – he’s a snake who wants his cake
He says you’ve got to give him a break (break)
👏This is some of your best work!
Perfect!
Yay lol!!
Greetings Chumpmom,
You have come to the right place.
Where you are right now, you are still “programmed” to have some sort of care about things that he wants and needs.
You would do well to divorce yourself of that programming while you work on divorcing HIM.
His wants, needs, and desires stopped being your concern the moment he betrayed you and your family. He made that choice and how to remain in the lives of your children when he crossed the line(which may have been a literal white picket fence.)
He doesn’t care about what you want-it makes you no less of a person to reciprocate. He is trying to keep his foot in the door for impression management-the end of that is YOU are the bad guy. Don’t stand for that. Regardless of whatever your (perceived) shortcomings are-HE made the choice, you didn’t. It is really that simple.
You can be civil without being horrifying. You will want to be horrifying-resist the temptation!
I had a similar “one last good ________” before it hit the fan. I know what it’s like to verbalize the concerns and boundary blurring and have it played off or denied. And the “so sorry you are hurt by this BUT MY HAPPINESS(incoherent warbles here).” And it sucks. A lot. You have plenty of “now that I think about it…” coming in your immediate future.
You need to circle your wagons and build your support system NOW. You need all of the help you can get in the short term just to keep moving and keep the lights on and there will be triggers a-plenty.
We are here for you!
“Where you are right now, you are still “programmed” to have some sort of care about things that he wants and needs.”
Exactly, and also the cheater is still programmed to think she will just do as he wants.
I have no doubt that my fw thought that Susie would just follow his lead and do the D, as he and the whore planned. Yeah, no. Pissed him off when he realized the day he filed for D he lost all his power with me.
He called me at work and threw a hissy fit if I didn’t do as he wanted. I just said “knock yourself out big boy”. I said have to go and hung up. He called back about 20 ish minutes later to apologize. I imagine he talked to his lawyer and his lawyer said dude, they will slap a threat charge against you.
Lots of good advice here.
No, is definitely a complete sentence.
Keep things as cordial as you can, through the divorce.
They will try hard with the image management, but remember, he fired you from being his wife. Don’t accept a demotion to “friend”.
Any chump who imagines that exFWs and APs are “happy together” should– even if they don’t typically follow tabloid celebrity garbage– keep referencing the marriage of Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez like it’s an ongoing labrat study of what happens when cheaters and poachers hook up. It’s a perfect case because constant scrutiny by paparazzi coupled with Affleck’s histrionic, anal retentive broadcasting of every negative emotion and what seems to be his especially “rapidly cycling” attachment and personality disorders mean the couple could never hide the cracks in the foundation the way more obscure, dull, slower-cycling, garden variety narcs might.
Granted Lopez wasn’t the direct poacher in the situation but she was the AP when ex Marc Anthony was still married to a previous partner and then married the latter four days after he signed his divorce papers. With Affleck, she had every reason to know she was marrying another blameshifting cheater so it’s likely she bought into his victim-blaming bs like a typical AP and believed herself to be super special enough to “inspire” a confirmed abuser to change.
In other words, BenJLo are just on the fast track to where every other cheater squared arrangement ends up over time.
I’m late to the party but had to respond to the Affleck/JLo thing. I’ve always liked Affleck on screen. He’s a very talented director and a good actor. I admire his buddy Matt Damon and hoped some of Damon’s normalcy would rub off on him.
But he’s an addict. Maybe he’s not actively using, but there’s no way a sober person would hoover back to JLo because it’s so much mess and drama. Of course there was a huge wedding with JLo wearing some over-sexy dress. Lots of photo opps…My dad would say Affleck can’t stand prosperity. Garner wasn’t an endless source of kibbles (aka attention of all sorts).
Affleck is a chronic cheater and JLo has a history of mate-poaching so we might consider that addiction isn’t the main driver in bringing these two narcissists together.
Despite his family man image, I’m not that impressed with Damon either since he tried to parse sexual harassment and assault in an interview. He’s since apologized but, as a middle aged Hollywood veteran, I think it’s clear that, at the very least, his apologism reflects the creepy company he tolerated and the kind of abusive behavior he turned a blind eye to up to that point.
“Matt Damon has drawn heated criticism for his comments on ABC’s ‘Popcorn’ in which he said all men accused of sexual harassment and assault shouldn’t be lumped together because ‘there’s a spectrum of behavior.’
‘There’s a difference between, you know, patting someone on the butt and rape or child molestation, right?’ he told host Peter Travers Thursday while speaking about the national reckoning on sexual misconduct taking place in Hollywood, politics, the media and more. ‘Both of those behaviors need to be confronted and eradicated without question, but they shouldn’t be conflated, right?'”
As far as lumping together, I would add it’s probably important not to lump all people with substance use disorders together with domestic abusers like Affleck, especially considering the high rates of addiction among domestic abuse and sexual harassment and rape victims. While trauma can increase risk of substance misuse, abusers fall into a different category and are abusers first and addicts second.
The general wisdom among DV advocates and researchers is that abusers drink/imbibe so they can abuse not the other way around. Poor Carrie Nation gets blamed for the disaster of Prohibition rather than the prevailing patriarchal medical experts at the time who spun the legal and social apologia for domestic violence and domestic murder that “demon whisky made ’em do it.” Nation was a domestic violence victims’ advocate and simply following the era’s “expert” view in her prohibition campaign. That didn’t end well to the degree the view was wrong.
And he cheated on JLo in 2002 when they were previously engaged. Then he cheated on Garner with the nanny. And now, here they are married.
I’ll be honest, even as jaded as I am after going through a serious chumping and witnessing what everyone else here has been through, I was kind of pulling for them. It’s been decades, I thought maybe they both grew up and could maybe have something good.
But it won’t be surprising if this doesn’t work. Gossip mills say that it’s falling apart, which as gossip may or may not hold a grain of truth. But it won’t be a shock.
I was wallowing a bit in my chumpiness the other day and I had a disturbing thought. It was a failing of the “trust they suck” motto. I thought, “gee, he really lamented how things turned out. He ended up with no AP, no wife, out of the family home. He really seemed to grasp that he screwed up.” I knew that even still, I couldn’t take him back. But it made me wonder if he’d do better in his new relationship. (not the AP, new non-cheaty gf) And I’ll admit it really did tick me off to think that I gave decades to him, and then suffered this horrible pain,and now some new woman comes along and could benefit from everything I went through. But then I realized “so what if she did?” What is the alternative? I can’t go back. So what does it even matter to me?
But also, let’s be serious. He has cheated before me, and he’s cheated on me, probably more than I know. According to his AP, he cheated on her. That’s 2/3 of his life as a cheater. What on earth makes me think he would change NOW?
Even if he gets too burnt out and soggy (like a lot of aging cheaters tend to) to keep cheating like he had in the past, bear in mind that only good people get really good at being good while people who are shitty into adulthood are mostly only ever mediocre at being good– and that’s only if they ever get a genuine and enduring “come-to-Jesus” revelation. But it’s still like someone picking up the cello at 46 and thinking they’ll be Yo Yo Ma. Nope. Empathy, like talent, fades if you don’t use it. Not that one shouldn’t try. Being a decent person, like learning an instrument, grows the brain and enriches life.
I suppose there are exceptions like, say, Malcolm X. But disavowing a life of crime to become a nonviolent icon who reportedly treated his family well in private was more a return to factory setting since he was simply reverting to the examples of his amazing community activist parents.
I suspect most FWs don’t have ethical factory settings to return to and even if they “fake it till they make it,” they’re still going to set your teeth on edge from the sheer effort it takes them to muster a little kindness. It will always ring false and “hit the wrong note” (mixing up my analogies and flogging them at the same time). Imagine the lucky person who gets to spend their lives watching this meh performance and having to act like it’s some magnum opus.
Wow!
you are mighty!
4 kids and you’re moving along. I have a legal separation but am emotionally stuck even though he moved out—in a very sneaky way bc it wasn’t “safe” for him to tell me ahead of time. I know should be happy the terrible human has left my home, but a 42 year fantasy partner is so strongly etched in my brain it is hard for me to reconcile the truth of him as FW.
The blame shifting is intense.
I am living in the midst of a remodeling project that keeps growing bc he didn’t fix things he told me he had repaired (like leaks!) and when I would question anything he would hug me and kiss my head and tell me I was too anxious “I’ve taken care of it already.”
My logical brain tells me to focus on what I know to be true. But I can’t do it without reading this site and hearing that other chumps have made it out of this swamp and to better options!
Ah, this could be my exFW. She also wanted to do weekly family dinners. It’s all about the image management. “Don’t look at this morally reprehensible thing I did! Look at how ‘enlightened’ I’m being by attending school plays with my ex! If my ex looks miserable, it’s because they are bitter, hateful, and unevolved!” Barf.
My ex didn’t end up with the AP. This has many upsides (like, I don’t have to deal with an AP, which is a huge source of pain for so many), but a downside is that without a visible AP, it’s very easy for her to play the Poor Sad Sausage game because the vast majority of people have no idea why we split up.
ChumpDchump,
Mine was playing sad sausage WITH a new gf. I’m also lucky that AP is out of picture, but as we are separated he was casually dating. As we had no good boundaries in place, I was often aware that he had a date on a given day. Or he’d TELL me about them. But then I actually found out how frequently he was out. The man was having the time of his life. On non-custodial weeks he was out sometimes 4-5 times a week. And we were separated so that was his right. But then he still complained about how sad he was and how terrible dating was and how I was the bad guy for throwing away decades of marriage. (yes, I threw it away because I wouldn’t reconcile after his multi year AP partner dumped him) Posting to social media all this doom and gloom as if HIS life was ending. And he still did it before he told me about his now very serious gf of 2 months.
I guess my point is, your FW might have played sad sausage even with a very visible AP. They truly have no shame.
Yeah, you’re right, she definitely would have. The farther away I get from the divorce, the less I care about what people think but, particularly at the beginning, I was very sensitive to people assuming the divorce was my fault. I basically kept my mouth shut about what happened (except around one or two very close friends and family), but she has always been very vocal with “oh woe is me, I’m so broke, I’m so alone, I’m so mired in the stresses of parenthood.” That, in combination with the fact that I kicked her out and asked for divorce, could give most people the impression that she was rejected.
Mine also volunteers too many details about her dating life, even when I ask her not to. It’s usually along the lines of “there’s no one acceptable to date in this area, so I guess I’ll just die alone,” etc. Now I don’t even tell her not to divulge, because a boundary for her is just an indication of something she knows will upset me and that she can prod me with later. I will just ignore it and move onto something relevant, like the kids’ schedule.
I’m not divorced yet, but the further I get from D-Day the less I care about what people think too. Early on, I didn’t want anyone to know anything. My ride or die closest friends knew. And I didn’t tell anyone else. Honestly I don’t know what kind of issues I was harboring to be as worried as I was. I think I felt like a loser, and didn’t want anyone to assume I WAS a loser? Maybe? We still lived together so no one had any idea. He liked that arrangement as no one had to know what he DID.
Mine definitely complained about how terrible dating was. Except, boy did he do a lot of it. And for a guy that spent decades making his family walk on eggshells, always getting his way at all costs, it sure seems unlikely that he was actively doing all that dating if he didn’t LIKE it. No one was forcing him, after all. And given that his true love/soul mate affair exploded as he was moving out of his marital home, away from his wife of decades, one might argue that he needed a break from romantic entanglements.
Very good tip that it’s better to change the subject vs asking them not to discuss the dating life. Why advertise our triggers?
I think that the most important thing that Chumpmom needs to remember is that she can NOT care at all what the Fuckwit says because he will do his darndest to make her feel inadequate. He’ll accuse her of “not thinking about the children” when she excludes him. Which will make her feel like defending herself. She can NOT engage with the enemy. Her quickest path to healing is to act like she is a widow. She must (pretend at first) that he does not exist. Eventually, he won’t exist as anyone important.
Very much yes. On top of the not caring, another big realization that you have to come to is that the FW does not have your best interests at heart. This is a very hard concept to grasp, because you expect this from someone you were married to. However, once you internalize this message, things become a lot easier. The mask comes off, and you see the FW’s shenanigans for what they are.
Chumpmom, you’re doing all the right things. Just keep going. I want to warn you about one thing–do not be surprised if/when he eventually stops seeing his kids. People who can have affairs like your STBX are different from the rest of us. They do not connect emotionally, and aren’t willing to stick around when things get tough. Small children are fun to have around because they typically adore Daddy. Teenagers aren’t fun. They are not as cute and they don’t provide kibbles. They notice when Dad is an asshole and respond accordingly. I have 5 (now adult) kids and the ex dumped the kids shortly after he dumped me. Most of them were teenagers at the time.
Good advice!
These cheaters are so predictable. Of course he wants family dinners and to attend things together as a family. Not only have you nailed that he wants “to get his kibbles and have his cake,” but doing things together as a family is image control. Most people, moral/ethical people, look down on cheaters, especially cheaters who destroy a family. But if you do things together, all of a sudden he can turn the tide and act as if this divorce was jointly agreed to. “See! We’re still friends! We both fell out of love. Everything is good between us!”
Good for you for not playing those games. Brace for tantrums when you don’t bow down to his every wish. My ex-wife also wanted to play the “happy family” cards after she moved out to live with her affair partner. When I didn’t play that game, she actually scheduled a hearing with Friend of Court to try to take away my ability to throw birthday parties for my kids, at my house. These cheaters truly believe they are the main character in life.
How did the court react to this whiny, baldly competitive petition by your ex? Uproarious laughter, eye rolls?
I live in Michigan, and we have a hearing with a “referee” before anything goes back to a judge. The referee came in and immediately says “I’ve read the complaint and I don’t think the court should have anything to do with this. But let’s just say we accept the plaintiff’s request and put this in the divorcee decree. What if one of them breaks this decree? What’s the consequence? Are we really going to send a parent to jail for throwing a birthday party for their child?”
It was a beautiful waste of time and money.
It’s always boggling how FWs get roles completely reversed and endlessly act like they’re the injured parties who– due to the great injustices they’ve suffered!– can’t help retaliating and lashing out. But that’s how thwarted abusers of all grades think which, on the extreme end of the spectrum, is exactly why most line-of-duty deaths among police happen while responding to domestic violence calls.
Remember the line from the film Falling Down when Michael Douglas’s psycho character sincerely asks, “I’m the bad guy? How did that happen?” They’re so convinced of their own delusions it’s strangely spellbinding.
Oh my, that line is priceless! I had forgotten that one.
One time, when we were still talking on the phone, I wondered why my now-ex had chosen to go many states away when I told him we needed to separate again. The first time we separated, he went to a local hotel, so that was what I was expecting. But NO! He drove all the way to one of the most southern parts of the U.S. So, how was that going to save the marriage?
He responded,”I don’t know, how did that happen?” Well, you packed your bags and drove off. That’s abandonment, buddy.
Then he added, “Oh, I’m living here because that’s what my family convinced me to do after we separated. We can work on things long-distance.”
Both comments were frankly disturbing. I wrote that all down in my journal right after I hung up. I saw my therapist not long after that, and she just shook her head at the insanity.
Some people are really weak inside and never fully grow up. They are so dependent on their family for identity and sometimes actual resources. My husband worked for his family for decades and it was incredibly destructive to HIM, but he was just too dependent to leave and forge his own path. He took what was the avenue of least resistance and let them make his decisions for him. It’s like they’re herd animals or part of a hive mind. Definitely something went awry with the maturing and independence process. My husband’s family was biased against me as I am from a different background and economic class and it was impossible to get past. Being with me was possibly the only independent thing he ever really did in his life.
I’ve shared here before that my attorney actually began calling him “the boy” instead of using his name or something like that. I noticed and asked why, given that my STBX was retired and in his 60’s.
Well, you can guess why. He was acting like a playgroup bully, and my attorney said he needed to call my STBX what he was, “the boy.”
I thought Falling Down was a weirdly brilliant movie. I really liked Robert Duvall’s performance as the police sergeant and the flinty female partner played by Rachel Ticotin who periodically rolls her eyes at Duvall’s character’s dinosaur sexism.
Pardon my tangent but I got a very strong feeling from what you wrote that your exFW was like an automaton who would just trance out and follow whatever bizarre directives his family gave almost like a Manchurian candidate getting a covert signal to revert to trained assassin mode. Like “Oh, you’ve been caught in betrayal? Move as far away as possible to avoid fallout!” Frankly that sounds like generational “wisdom” following many generations of criminal activity.
But from a more “clinical” perspective, from the time I worked in DV advocacy, it’s my impression that only unrecovered adult victims of serious child abuse and/or emotional/physical incest behave that way– as if they remain in total thrall to their former abusers, sometimes even viewing the latter as so omniscient that they must follow those credos and commands even after their former abusers die. At least according to some field researchers I read, that’s the standard psychological history and profile of a lot of domestic abusers. They abuse because it’s a hallowed family tradition and they must obey.
By the way, this isn’t to somehow sympathize with your exFW or imply he had any sad sausage excuse to behave the way he did towards you just because of some tragic theoretical past. All violent, sadistic criminals had tragic pasts but I never empathize with adult abusers even if I might feel sorry for the tiny abused children they once were. Meanwhile, stick a fork in the adult, they’re cooked and probably (according to statistics) irredeemable. So on your behalf I say fuck him but I totally understand your wtf reaction to what a bizarre head case he was. It’s very hard for sane people to understand the criminally disordered.
You called that one right! I still sometimes think of the off-base things he’d say and do and how wonderful it is to just live a normal life.
I discussed the possibility of my ex’s childhood trauma at length with my therapist, who had also seen him separately at times. She was very much in agreement with my observations as being markers. His childhood was almost too perfect, and he thought it odd that I had certain memories from ages 2-6 when he had no memories at all of the period.
As the years went by, I also noticed how very, very beholden he was to his family, particularly a brother who IMHO has a few screws loose. He would talk to them for hours on the phone. When we visited his parents and the siblings came over with their families, I became like a complete stranger, not really being part of their family experience, apparently. When we had small children, I would return to the hotel with the excuse that the kids were tired because I was weary of just sitting there while they recounted family stories and gossiped about people I never met. Other times, I did the dishes or played with the kids.
Anyway, I wrote in my journal just weeks into separation #2, “My marriage is over. His family is in charge.” I had some truly bizarre conversations with them after he left. For some reason, they then let me know some disturbing things about his family, but nothing that involved my husband. I didn’t ask.
He was spending hours and hours with them at times, and then continued to talk to them for hours and hours on the phone, sometimes every day. He was retired, so blaming me became his job. The brother that was a bit off told me that they were the only counsellors my then-husband needed, so I shouldn’t try to bring in anyone else into the mess. OK, so what should have been a private matter is a family matter. I ended contact with them.
Not long after that, my ex kicked off the divorce that had to be. So I am no longer part of the family that I really never was a part of anyway. That is probably a mercy in many, many ways.
My husband’s family treated me like dirt for years. They excluded me from family events and wouldn’t greet me at the door when I would show up for a FUNERAL they’d actually greet anyone else who was around me at the door but not ME, stuff like this. I really should have left him years ago but health crises and lack of money kept me here. I do love him but I should not have stayed and I would tell others, if the family treats you in a shitty manner….HE probably will treat you in a shitty manner some day too. He also will SIDE WITH THEM if there are any problems. Everyone kind of expects the FOO to side with the other spouse, but what people don’t get is that he or she will ALSO tend to side with their FOO and if they treat you bad….that’s what you’re gonna get from spouse too.
Yes, my husband basically ran into his family’s arms screaming, “I’m a victim, victim, victim.” A grown man who had recently retired and a marriage of several decades? And they bought it, no surprise from what I had seen years before.They brought him “home” if you will and told me they were in charge. They dug into every aspect of our relationship and declared me very much at fault without me being there to counter it.
At the time, my beloved aunt told me that she was wary of long phone conversations and meetings if we were hoping to reconcile because she didn’t want to sit at the dinner table with a reconciled couple where she knew all the dirty secrets and hadn’t talked to both spouses. She did offer to pay for therapy for me and was 100% behind me though. My aunt called me several times a week to tell me how much she loved me and how much confidence she had that I’d figure things out.
As it became clear that the marriage would not survive, she flew out by herself to be with me at several points. But even then, she said she wasn’t there for me to badmouth my STBX; she was there to give me hope and help me make plans.
Ironic that my aunt (not a religious person) was so much more balanced that way. My own FOO was a bit of a mess, but thankfully I was largely disengaged from them other than my aunt.
The memory and picture I took of my #1 cheater, sitting in our house, in the rocker, feeding my 6 month old a banana 🍌. This man who gave me a D day right after delivery sitting in the house he left, for the house of OW…feeding this precious infant. Somehow they Mark their territory and when he left I was lost TEMPORARILY! I soon got my big girl work pants on and as soon as the divorce was final i moved me and 2 kids to an apartment and started a new job. Mr cheater tried to get into my apartment to sit and chat WITH HIS KIDS, but I threatened legal action. Cheaters do not like consequences and revert to demeaning, bullying and attacks. I held firm. This was finding me again and not allowing the cake of my company and the children inside my own home. It will come in time but Tracy and CN know that NO CONTACT is the quickest way to Healing and of course the path to MEH.
I feel like this is the grossest part about life after disclosure that you’re partnered with a FW. The fact that they KNOW that you’re a decent human, and weaponize those impulses against you in order to get kibbles.
I still remember FW in his gaslighting era, throwing his phone at me and demanding that I read his messages, knowing for a very reliable fact that my sense of integrity wouldn’t allow me to do such a thing. Sure enough, he was riding the jobsite bicycle and managed to twist things around so I felt like the asshole for accusing him. Just absolutely without remorse or decency.
“Do it for the kids!” Ugh. Fuck all the way off, man.
They use the kids as human shields.
Yes thats exactly right, divorce ASAP he will fight you less on settlement. They may feel some sort of guilt and want to be with Schmoops. Once the dust settles and no more chaos, they bore and get contentious. It gives their life meaning to fight you. You are the bad guy. They need someone to place all their negative mojo on. They feel bad inside. Instead of looking at themselves they blame any and all external forces.
Thats why CL is so important to change the narrative. We drag our feet because we dont want change. We grasp at straws, Reconciliation because of our desperation. But as the D days add up and time goes on they get more disdainful and disrespectful towards us. How could they not? We are prey to them.
This is such a great point and I’m sure others here – I’m think of Elsie in particular – can back you up that the longer you wait, frequently the more difficult, drawn out and worse, the outcome will be for Chump. It’s important to strike early and get it done to your advantage while they are otherwise occupied and in the famous Fog. Once that and the guilt wanes, they can focus more on denying you or prolonging things and turn the divorce process into an extended torture session where they get all their bad feelings out at Chump. This is one of the reasons recon is so destructive – because it lengthens a process that’s most likely gonna happen anyway and makes it worse for Chump and Kids in the end.
I remember reading this advice on this site right after D Day and it made perfect sense. My FW was neck deep in the fog, having just moved out and moved in with OW. He was literally treating me like an annoying fly that wouldn’t fuck off whenever I contacted him about anything, so I decided to use his idiocy to my advantage for a change.
His cheating had destroyed my business. I worked on call and our kids were young and I couldn’t just up and go to work after he moved out. I decided I wanted to move back to my hometown, about an hour away. I saw a lawyer who told me if I wanted to take the kids and not be forced to bring them back, I’d better get him to agree to it.
I went home and drafted an email – this had to be in writing. I didn’t go on and on, I just said “Look, I have to fold my business, I have two kids to take care of, I need to go home and be near my parents while I get back on my feet. The kids need their grandparents”. I may or may not have left him with the impression that it was temporary and I would eventually move back…but I didn’t say that outright.
This disordered FW couldn’t get rid of me quick enough. Consumed by the need to extract maximum impression management, he agreed to it the same day. Anything to make me STFU and get lost so he could enjoy his prize in peace.
I immediately packed up my house and my kids and I was gone within the month, before he had time to think. If he’d had the most basic conversation with a lawyer on getting my email, he would have been told all he had to say to stop me was “No”. The law where I live is that he has to agree. About six months after I’d moved away, the magic pussy dust wore off and he realised what he’d done. Realised that he’d closed the door on any chance of 50/50 custody. I assume at that time he did actually speak to a lawyer who informed him how badly he’d fucked up, because after threatening to drag me to court he dropped it and hasn’t raised it again since.
My kids still see him, for 8 years they’ve travelled back and forth every second weekend. But there was no way – absolutely NO freaking way – I was having my children forced to live in his home 50% of the time with no protection from his untreated mental health issues. No way.
Kids are nearly grown now and they know why I moved them away. They understand it better now, especially since his true colours are easier for them to see. He drops his mask around them more frequently as he ages, and they know he’s a disordered FW but he’s their dad. And that’s ok.
I agree. Divorce had been on the table most of my marriage of several decades, and I well might have just called him on that when he was more rational and when I could have more easily become self-supporting. He always used that to figuratively bludgeon me, which, of course, is a red flag of a toxic relationship. It’s manipulation. The only positive I had with waiting was that I had no custody issues.
One thing that is great about this site is that all us chumps have been through relatively the same thing (chumpdom) and many handled it in different ways. So new chumps can come here and see what happens when you take any given route.
D-Day happened for me during lockdown. Either of us leaving the marital home was not possible early on. The AP was long distance and I had some FOO issues, that combo meant I let this drag out for years. He was up to his chin in cake and pick me dancing.
Eventually he moved out. Affair immediately fizzled out. She never even moved here. It was like as soon as she knew for sure his marriage was completely bombed, she bailed.
Now we were living separately and he immediately embarked on a dating life. On all the apps, lots of dates. I know all this because there were no healthy boundaries in place. He still talked to me daily, came by the marital home at least a few times a week, we did holidays and family dinners together with our kids. And yes, he still did repairs around the house.(Which made sense as he had moved out but we hadn’t filed and so the house was still half his) Hearing about his dating life was really weird. For the most part it didn’t really bother me because after he had an affair, dating while separated seemed so much better by comparison. But it wasn’t always easy to hear. I felt like a broken shell of the person I once was, while he was out having fun. And I couldn’t even stomach the idea of EVER dating, let alone so soon. We weren’t even divorced or close to it. Also, if he suspected I was dating? He lost his mind and fought with me. Yes, you read that right. He was going on multiple dates a week on his non-custodial times, and yet thought he had the right to yell at me if he suspected I was. ( I couldn’t be less interested in dating. My heart is broken. Probably a good thing I don’t want to because he would make my life hell if I did)
So it’s been 8 months or so of this friendly co-parenting. Sometimes it seems like it is a great thing. We can do things as a family and have a good time. The kids don’t have to deal with a lot of the less pleasant sides of divorce like splitting holidays. But it also meant that he had full access to me and felt like he could pick fights with me whenever he wanted. I never had the time to heal from my broken marriage.
Fast forward to now. He has met someone that he is serious about. When he told me, I went into a complete emotional meltdown. It took me a bit to recognize why. He’s been seeing her for 2 months, is “planning a future with her” and he wants to introduce her to my kids immediately and made it clear that my opinion on that is not being considered.
I lost my mind and reacted horribly. And I realized why later.
They are serious. She will be around my kids. She will be someone that he wants to be around for holidays and such. And now, nearly 4 years after DDAy here I am re-feeling all those feelings that I had about the AP.
This woman is not an AP. I don’t have anything against her. But I don’t want to hang out with her either. And there is no place for this weird relationship that I have with my ex when he has a serious gf in the picture. I feel like I am going through discard all over again. And it’s MY fault for not setting boundaries sooner. (In defense of myself, I am working on my FOO issues and have been for quite some time) Now I have to work on getting this divorce handled, with a high conflict, personality disordered ex, who now has a gf who is planning a future with him and hence, might weigh in on decisions he makes for the divorce. I already worried that the splitting of our meager assets could get contentious, but now it may be 2 against 1.
PLEASE learn from my mistakes. I truly wouldn’t wish this on anyone.
Well, you can read my suggestion below, but on the other hand, I re-read your letter and I have to admit that a woman who would get seriously involved with a guy with kids who is not divorced yet and possibly going through a contentious process, may not be the most promising person anyway because…..who would do that? I’d run like a freaking train away from that kind of mess as should anyone with sense. Maybe my idea of minimally engaging with New Woman may not work here but more in a situation where divorce and aftermath are in the past. He should not be seriously involved with someone else at this point, seriously bad judgment on both their parts.
I’m not against meeting her at some point. But I just can’t right now. I really don’t feel remotely rational on this topic. I know she isn’t an AP. I know she did nothing wrong. I know he has the right to date. I knew he was dating lots of people for months and months now. That didn’t bother me. I even understand WHY this bothers me. It’s not about her. It’s about the DDay feelings all flooding back because this relationship, while not a sneaky betrayal, this relationship will affect my life in all the ways that I worried the AP would. We will have to split holidays now. My kids will go on vacation with her, while I won’t be able to afford vacations. I mean, honestly, I feel like a big baby. Half the chumps on this site have to deal with those scenarios except it IS with the AP! But it doesn’t matter what logic I feed my brain, I just can’t get a grasp on my feelings right now. Also, to be clear, this is so unlike me. I have been the sane adult in this scenario for the past few years. I’ve been calm,in control and even kind through the entire process until now. Maybe I just ran out of patience at the most inopportune time.
I’m taking some space in hopes that I can calm down and get a hold of myself. He has zero respect for that space and is responding as if I firebombed his house rather than take space.
She hasn’t met the kids yet, but I know it’s coming soon. They are 12 and 14. I am not overly concerned with what kind of person she is. Or more specifically, I don’t think that he would allow a person who was dangerous around the kids. And they are old enough to report back anything problematic. My assumption is that she will be on her best behavior with them, as she will want them to like her. And she’d do the same with me. It’s not like we’d meet for coffee and she would bring up her history of kidnapping to ME of all people.
I know that the reason he wants me to meet her is so he can trot me out for image control, “here is my stbx wife. We get along great. We are best friends.” I can guarantee you that he didn’t tell her that the marriage is ending due to his cheating. And I don’t want to be a part of that. I don’t want to be his image manager.
I’ve seen it debated here whether to warn the next woman. In my case, she is not an AP and many chumps might think telling her is the right thing. But I don’t feel safe doing so. We haven’t started the divorce process yet and he is a difficult person. Having his new gf dump him because I told her he is a FW, or even if she stays but still tells him what I said? That could make him more contentious. I am going with CL’s advice of “save yourself first”. I have my kids to think about, and my future. My retirement was meant to be lived on a 2 salary household. Now, that is no longer the case. I need the fairest settlement I can get.
I do think there is one red flag about her, and that is how very serious they are at the 8 week mark. He was so clear about the fact that they are very serious, committted to each other and planning a future. And she’s introduced him to her family, so it’s not like this is a one sided delusion on his part. Keep in mind that if their first date was 8 weeks ago, 4 of those weeks he had the kids. So he wasn’t even seeing her for half that time. I know HE can’t be alone. Hell, he needed an AP on the side while he was married. I see why HE is jumping in so quickly. But what is HER excuse? Is she just as messed up as him? Or maybe she is just so over being on dating apps and dealing with all that comes with it, and other than the fuckwittery, he looks like a prize. Handsome, charming, funny, generous, well paid. She probably thinks she won the jackpot. And he can make sure she doesn’t find out otherwise for a long time. It worked on me.
I’m gonna throw an idea at you that may or may not be acceptable at all, but it occurred to me so I want to pass it on. As this woman is not the AP and you don’t have anything personal against her (I completely understand how this brings back all the feelings of the discard), maybe you could meet her alone for lunch or dinner to get to know her a bit and vice versa, and talk about the kids? I know this seems like being involved with FW, but it really isn’t as if she’s going to be involved routinely in the kids’ lives, you might want to develop some kind of cordial working relationship with her to ensure that goes smoothly and consistently. I know people might say, just let the kids deal with it and don’t get involved, and that may be the best solution for most people, but it might be helpful to know what she’s like and vice versa and eventually set down similar ideas and guideline rather than just leaving the kids to God knows what. As she is not the AP, and hasn’t injured you personally, it might be what I would do. Just so you know, at minimum, what the kids would be dealing with as well. This obviously would just be between you and her and not meeting with the Ex because….we know what he is. He’s a bad parent or you and the kids would not be going through this.
It would also give you a chance to know what she’s like and it might help to remove these feelings of discard or concern – if she’s a good or acceptable person, it might reassure you about her involvement with your kids and she might turn into something like an ally. If she’s another asshole, you’ll know what’s coming and you’ll better be able to guide your kids into dealing with her. Sometimes it’s just good to know the terrain.
You’ve received a lot of good advice here and it can be overwhelming. They key things to take away:
No more allowing him in your space–period. We do this to create some much needed emotional distance, to create a safe place of solace for ourselves and our kids, to establish new routines and boundaries, and to gain back the autonomy often lost in the in the horrors of the chump shuffle.
Go NC, or Limited Contact–keeps drama to a minimum, allows for emotional distance, and is often the first step in learning how to build and maintain better boundaries. Contact should be directed to one place (except for emergencies) and limited only to what’s necessary (parenting/kid issues). Most chumps choose email or a court approved communication App like Our Family Wizard. The reason for this, as opposed to texting or calls, is it maintains distance, it gives you time to compose appropriately brief replies, and it’s not nearly as disruptive to usual house routines/life. The legal reason for this choice is email is considered legal by the courts in all states, whereas in many states, text messages are not (unless they are authenticated). What this means is email provides you with an accepted chain of proof should you need it to go after dubious behavior, or defend against it.
No more wife appliance for him–no chasing paperwork, doing ‘favors’, informing him of comings/goings–he fired you from all of these jobs and more. This does not mean you can’t be civil and/or accommodate minor things if it suits you, but it’s another boundary that’s best built early and used without fail until they get the message and stop asking.
Get your own attorney. Do not share. There are a million reasons why and those reasons can be better explained by getting out, having consults and asking questions of however many lawyers it takes until you find one that clicks. Bonus: the more you interview, the less choice he has because once you speak to any lawyer about yourself or your case, they cannot even talk to him. This applies even if you don’t retain them.
Don’t expect him to continue to play fair. Once you reach the settlement stage where you are legally defining the terms of division, custody, visitation, CS/alimony…A LOT tends to change. It’s one thing to casually agree with each other, and another to commit to signing stuff over on legal documents through attorneys. Being prepared for it will serve you well even if it doesn’t happen in the extreme (as most cases tend to do once attorneys are involved).
No more ‘Family’ outings. ALL events, special days and holidays should be established as separate. It helps you (for all the reasons above), and it helps the kids get used to the new ‘normal’. Plus, younger kids adjust quickly once they realize they get double the vacations, and presents/parties for things like birthdays and Christmas.
Understand that the majority of chumps that came before you ended up divorcing someone they still loved. It’s not sensible, it’s love and it’s not something that normal thinking feeling people can shut off easily. Trust that in time, you won’t feel that way anymore–at all. But it takes time to break the bond, so be kind to yourself until you do.
Also understand that NONE of this is your fault. Most FW’s blame us and many chumps start blaming themselves. Don’t. His choice to cheat was his and his alone. He could have left civilly and respectfully and chose not to. Don’t shoulder that–keep reminding yourself that his lies and deceit took away your right to have a voice and a choice.
Lastly ((((Big Hugs))) because this shit is hard. We’re right there with you.
My FW asked if he could keep coming on “nature walks” (I.e. literally walking through some Aussie scrub near the house but for who knows what reason he started using embellished ye olde descriptions like “i beg”) with my son and me. He had a pros and cons list (in his mind hopefully not on paper but who knows) where one black mark against AP was her dicky hips which made her unsuitable for “nature walks”.
I had to laugh at that one, even at the time.
Oh Weedfree. Thanks for the laugh. There is just something that struck me as so funny about this. We see so many crazy things from FWs here on this site, and this isn’t the most outrageous, but it just really got to me.
The AP has bad hips so she can’t go on nature walks, and he thinks “that’s fine, I’ll just get that need met by my ex, the one that I cheated on. Surely they won’t mind helping me out” I think what has me giggling is just how mundane this example of extreme entitlement is.
He doesn’t NEED to go on nature walks with company. He can not go. Or go alone. Or find company that he didn’t betray in the worst way possible. But no, he wants his walks, and he wants company and he is under the delusion that all his needs, no matter how big or small, should be met. And that everyone around him, including his Chump, should be concerned with said needs. It’s the audacity, for me.
Sir, you gave up your right to expect Weedfree to fulfill ANY of your needs when you cheated. Go on your own nature walks or don’t, but that’s not Weedfree’s problem anymore.
I just saw on the other infidelity site (which I rarely look at) there was a discussion about 2-5 years being the timeframe to “heal from infidelity” (the site supports both separation and reconciliation).
In my experience, which seems common enough, it takes 2 or more (but hopefully not 5, but who knows) years to fully accept you were married to a complete and utter horse’s arse as described by you above. Imagine coming to that radical acceptance and the idiot is still lying there next to you in bed. Ergh
Oh HELL to the NO! You don’t owe this man one single thing ever again unless it’s in the court orders, whatever they are. NOT ONE THING. And you know it’s not just an “emotional affair”….they’re having sex. People don’t break up their families – 2 families – over emotional affairs. He’s made a choice to be with her rather than with you and your kids and he doesn’t get both. IT IS A CHOICE AND HE MADE IT.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this hell, but he created it for you and your kids and she’s creating it for her husband and kids. Neither of them deserve ANYTHING from either of you. To me, this is not just cake eating, it’s hedging his bet…..maybe he’s not too sure about how things are going with this tramp so he wants to keep his foot in the door with you. Also, he probably does feel guilty for shitting all over you and his kids and this other family too. Not guilty enough to stop, but guilty enough perhaps to want to maintain some image of “not a bad guy”. He fell in LURV!!!!!! Goddamit, he fell in LURVEEEEE!!!!!!
No, he didn’t. This asshole he’s fucking is not the love of his life or probably even someone he’s gonna be seeing once you’re free of him. She’s an excuse to change his life and evade responsibility. He doesn’t want to do the married dad with kids and responsibilities thing anymore, that’s my guess. So he’s fucking his way out of it. It’s disgusting, a decent man might be attracted to another woman, but you don’t act on it and you certainly don’t upend the lives of two families for it. If you give him any dinner, serve it with a flaming pitchfork!
And don’t do it for the kids. DO NOT PLAY NICE FOR THE KIDS. He’s gonna try the “can’t we just be friends and focus on the kids and the good times we had when I wasn’t a blatant public asshole?” NO, HELL NO. The kids need, age appropriate, to know what Dad has turned into. Dad has a girlfriend….Mrs. Tramp across the street, and that is not allowed in marriage. EVER. “Dad” will have to work out his own relationship with the kids over time – don’t help him. Don’t lift one fucking finger to help this asshole and stop trying to figure out why he’s doing this. YOU CAN’T. YOU CAN’T because you are a decent person and he no longer is. He isn’t in LURVE….he isn’t in the grips of some powerful demon….he has made a bunch of decisions to dump you and the kids for Mrs. Easy Knickers across the street. One clear decision to hurt his family after another. He deserves a dish of fucking arsenic over noodles. There is NO explanation for this, or excuse for this, or rationale for this, or reason for this – it’s because he has decided to reveal himself as a total flaming selfish asshole. And that IS the reason, as simple as it is.
Here’s the main reason YOU CANNOT BE INVOLVED WITH THIS MAN ANYMORE – beyond what the court orders and what you need to do for the kids…..because you will not be able to recover from this terrible pain and betrayal and stab in the heart he did to you until you stop seeing him and cut him out as much as you possibly can. It really IS the only way to recovery. Every time you see and hear him, it’s gonna be another stab in the heart. You need to minimize this as much as possible to recover and take care of your children – you and the kids are the ONLY things that matter now. Do whatever it takes to do the best of you and your children. You need a clear head and stable emotions and you can’t have that as long as this asshole thinks he can come and go and keep that foot in the door, which would stab you in the heart every time you agreed to this outrage. This man has become the enemy and he’s gonna stay that way. It’s gonna take a long time with the process you have to go through to get to the Meh that CL talks about but it starts with NO CONTACT as much as you can, and don’t let him back in the fucking house if you can avoid it. Put his shit on the sidewalk or garage. He made his choice, he doesn’t deserve ANYTHING from you anymore ever again.
And don’t take this asshole back either, especially when his Tru LURRRVVVV runs back to her husband or takes up with the plumber or whatever. You will never view this man again the same way and you will never trust him again and every time he talks to you and tries to apologize or explain….HE’S LYING and he just wants to make his own life better and easier.
Good luck my friend, this is perhaps the worst thing someone can experience, but you have children, that is a blessing from God, and you will get through this and be stronger, healthier and mightier than you can ever imagine. Chumps have the substance of life….Fuckwits have the image, if they can maintain that. Many can’t.
Bottom line, my friend….he’s trying to make this “transition” as easy as possible for HIMSELF….and he does not give a shit about you or the kids….and I bet he really doesn’t give much of a shit about Mrs. Tramp either….if it wasn’t her, it would have been some other convenient trollop because I just think he’s looking to escape back to Never Never Land. Don’t blame yourself and don’t believe anything he tells you and don’t even waste your time listening. You know all you need to know from his actions. A decent man does not abandon his wife and kids, including a baby. EVER. My guess is the 6 month old was the last straw for this loser.
Ya know….aside from the anger, and hurt, and disappointment you feel for a man or woman who does something like this…..one thing people have to keep in mind about the future….You will never view them the same way again…..you will never trust them again….and you will never have the RESPECT you had for them once. You cannot respect someone who acts like this and without respect….there may be fondness or sympathy….but there’s no true love.
This is so very true. I’ve even told him. I do not trust you (or her) and will not ever again. Especially when it comes to our children’s best interests. He also lost all respect from me and his 2 oldest kids.
You can’t let FW do husbandly things if you’re still hurting that he isn’t going to be your husband anymore.
I have my FW do the occasional favor, like refilling the water softener and fixing plumbing problems. I can do that because I do not miss FW and FW is not trying to hoover me back. There’s no mindfuckery going on now and I’m immune to it anyway. However, Chumpmom, your husband is a mindfucker to the max, and you’re still in pain. So letting him be in your life at all is not good for your well-being.
Concentrate on doing what needs to be done to cut ties. No dinners, no favors, no co-parenting. Parallel parenting only.
Btw, he is not a good father. A good father doesn’t break up his children’s family. I really wish chumps would stop telling themselves their FWs are good parents. They failed at the most fundamental task of parenting- insuring your kids feel safe and loved. A good father isn’t selfish as you describe him. Selfishness and parenting do not mix. Parental selfishness inevitably means the kids suffer. He was able to get away with being selfish and still have healthy, happy children only because you have been doing all the heavy lifting while he pranced around being Uncle Daddy and fucking his way around the neighborhood. He wants that lopsided power structure to continue. That’s a hard pass, Chumpmom. Just say no. If he’s too stupid to accept that, try saying it in German, because “Nein!” sounds so final.
Thank you for saying the truth that these people are NOT GOOD PARENTS! Good parents don’t break up their kids’ home (and another family’s kids’ home!) and throw their kids into the kind of pain they’re going to go through, maybe in some form for the rest of their lives. This is NOT what any kind of good parent will do, it marks them inherently as selfish and a BAD parent.
Cunning plan. I might ask FW to drop me off a load of wood. He loved getting wood (in all senses). It was part of his narc hero victim narrative. It was a tad odd he would go out for about 10 hours, come home covered in dirt and dust with about 7 different injuries and 10 sticks, but nevertheless it was free.
ExFW wanted to be “friends” after the divorce. He even wanted me to help him build relationships with our 17 & 20yo kids. After being a dick during the divorce (that went to trial), there was no way in hell I was ever going to be his “friend”. He was never my “friend”.
Listening to Tell me how you’ re mighty…. Sarah Gorell saying that the usual narrative about chumps who leave is they “gave up”, they were not able to do the “hard work” or were not “strong enough to fight for the marriage..” blah blah fucking blah.
But actually, chumps have nothing to work with! The cheaters deny, they lie, cheat and steal.
Cheaters are dishonest, deceptive, untrustworthy! They want that power over the chumps. They love the deception, the “control”! They want to “put one over” on their spouse. They want the advantage OVER their loving, trusting partner.
Yes! The reality is that chumps who leave are strong!
They are brave! They know their worth and they are admirable for
leaving; they (WE) are not to be disparaged as failures to determine to save our marriage (at great cost to ourselves), rather we are to be admired, really!
Is this FW unhinged? NO family dinners. NO joint attendance at events. NO hanging around fixing things!
Set those boundaries and hold firm!
PS: And I love that he blames your working for his dysfunctional business!
Thank God she works as she may have been left flat without money/resources of her own.
WI’ve noticed that cheaers often want or demand a seat at the family table, while refusing to open their own homes and lives to chumps.
They want a literal foot in the door, probably for multiple reasons.
If they get the family dinners, they will trumpet them to everyone as “proof” that chumps are OK with their exes, and probably spin the narrative that thy’re good guys, yoiur marriage was over and they never cheated.
They will use access to your house to get whatevr they can get from you, including physical property and your time to take care of various tasks. And they’ll use it to spy on your activities, your possessions, and your daily life.
They will use the time in front of the kids to make demands and spin stories, assuming chumps will not want to contradict them or fight in front of the kids.
Sane people don’t welcome thieves into our homes. Cheaters have already proved they are willinbg to steal our joint money, time, security and more.
Bar the door.
I notice that he got the rental property. Make sure that the rental income will count as income, and that regardelss of whether he rents it or not, the court will consider that amount as income for child support, that it will be calculated based on similar rentals in your area, and will rise accordingly as rents increase, even if he does not raise the rent. . Otherwise you risk that he will choose to let it sit empty, let friends stay for a song or no rent, or even move in Schmoopie and her kids at no charge. That income shoudl help offset his lack of employment and count towards child support.
We kicked the renter out and he is moving into the house to live. Luckily (for me and kids) he stays somewhat steady with jobs. He’s mad that I never helped him with book keeping or other managerial jobs since I work as a nurse and busy with our kids.
I cannot honor my boundaries because the law insists that I allow this person who hurts my kids see them as he pleases. And not only allow him to see them, but *encourage* them to deny their truth and spend time with him as if he hasn’t hurt them. As I have been commanded by more than one lawyer and marriage “therapist”. He just had his first visit with them in seven months to parade them in front of his mother, and he expected them to pay them the respect due a father who actually supports his children. He does nothing and still swoops in to collect his fealty. The children bear the burden of cognitive dissonance and emotional denial so he can keep living his lie.
What they put their “family” and especially the kids through, is horrible. NONE of these people are good parents or they wouldn’t do this. Most parents would just in front of bullets to save their kids. Even, I, a stranger, would go to some lengths to help or protect a child. The one thing I would say to Chumps in this kind of situation is to be really honest with your kids about what actually happened with FW. Maybe not all the details, of course, not the sexual ones, but they should know broadly how this situaition came about and what it means.
There is a misnomer that you have to talk to coparent. Nope, everything can be done by text or email. Pickups, dropoffs take two minutes. You don’t need to chat.
Civil and short. Hi, by.
I had one of these! Wanted to come over on Sunday nights for dinner with the kids, wanted to mow the grass for me, wanted ME to participate in this whole bullshit farce that was all about him proving to the kids and everyone else that he’s not a bad guy because if he were, I would have nothing to do with him.
Fuck that. I literally laughed in his face and told him hell would freeze over before I danced pretty for him for one more second.
I mowed the grass myself that summer, even though it damn near killed me because I hadn’t done it in years. What his kids thought of him was no longer part of my job description – I knew even then that eventually they would grow up and see who he was. And when they did, I didn’t want them looking to me for answers about why I lied to them too.