Cheating Wife Won’t Sign the Divorce Papers

Despite a mediated settlement, his cheating wife won’t sign the divorce papers. If she’s dragging her feet, can he change the terms?
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Dear Chump Lady,
So, my 22 years relationship (10 dating, 12 married) took a massive dump on me just before new years of 2022. I kicked her out of the house when I found out she was banging Rico Suave from work, who was apparently banging all her coworkers too.
We had been through 8 years of trying to have children through various medical procedures and this was difficult. But apparently for her it served as a free pass to explore “passion” from the resident nurse inspector. Also, turning 40 and not being able to deal with it like a normal sane person was another excuse to ride the rooster carousel.
I naively gave her an ultimatum: either work on the marriage, return home or we sell the house and move on.
I saw the working on marriage part wasn’t bearing fruit and she took it as an opportunity to make me compete with what was Schmoopie #3. She did decide to return home for 2 months. I insisted on marriage counseling as a condition.
Well, marriage counseling was more of an exercise in coddling her and assigning equal blame. Apparently I was supposed to heal without her help according to the fresh-out-of-school therapist. And of course marriage counseling became a free pass to visit Schmoopie #3 during an argument at our home. Well, not only did she visit #3, but at work she continued talking about our life to Schmoopie #2.
So, I kicked her out of the house again. I took a trip overseas to prepare for my exit.
A year or so later, after pulling teeth to get her signature to sell the house and sign documents to get our IVF money back, and getting her to clean the house of items — I left the country for good. I told her to keep everything from the house, we had a mediated agreement drafted. All that was required was her meeting with a lawyer to witness her signing the drafted agreement.
In the agreement I conceded more than I should have, but I wanted it over and done with and cheaply.
So, here I am almost 4 months later after serving her divorce papers, multiple threats from my lawyer and eventually having to spend a lofty $10k to get this into court. Meanwhile, all the proceeds of our home are locked up and inaccessible. It’s messing with my finances and inability to clear debts.
Am I dealing with a narcissist? She’s on Schmoopie #4, has told me she wants me to be happy and find someone and move on, while simultaneously refuses to sign a document that would take 30 minutes out of her day.
Am I an asshat for serving her with much harsher divorce terms than separation agreement to get her to move her ass? Or, is she deserving of this? I’ve been trying to do things amicably, but it feels like I had to drop the hammer once and for all.
Catman
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Dear Catman,
You must’ve missed my post about why you should never mediate with fuckwits. They’re not honest brokers. Cheaters prefer ill-gotten advantages. They thrill to cake. And childish displays of You’re Not the Boss of Me. Why would she agree to divorce?
Because she WANTS A DIVORCE, Tracy?
No, she wants cake. She won’t sign the divorce papers because it gives her shivers of delight to deny you. Do you know how hard it is to line up a new chump? Cheating is monogamy for thee, but not for me. Despite her protestations, that you should find someone new and move on, she prefers a legal situation in which you cannot.
Give up all this centrality? Are you kidding?
Am I an asshat for serving her with much harsher divorce terms than separation agreement to get her to move her ass?
No. She’s the asshole for cheating on you and refusing to sign a favorable settlement. You might as well get something for your $10K. I’m not a lawyer and I can’t give you legal advice, but I am someone who’s been in court with fuckwits. In my experience, there’s no cheap settlement, there’s just sweet, sweet freedom. My old divorce attorney (an ex-Marine from Alabama) used to say about dealing with these freaks:
“It’s like a pebble in your shoe. Annoying as hell. But once it’s gone, you’ll forget it was ever there.”
So, Catman, keep your eye on the prize. She cannot force you to stay married to her. She’s just got obstruction. But that’s a losing game. So, HELL YES, give her a fight. She won’t sign the mediated divorce papers? Then she gets a very different divorce.
Or, is she deserving of this?
We reject revenge here at Chump Nation. Did you back a truck over her? Are you projecting her sexts on public buildings? Did you cut the crotch out of all her clothes and nicely box them up for the movers? No. You’re just filing the divorce petition you should’ve filed four months ago. The one that doesn’t preserve her entitlement and shower her with parting gifts for fucking you over.
If she doesn’t like the terms of this new divorce petition, she can do what millions of ordinary citizens do every day. Hire an attorney and argue with the judge. Her documented obstruction is a very bad look. So, I think you’ve got a better chance of getting what you want.
Just because she won’t sign the divorce papers now doesn’t mean she can’t be forced to sign divorce papers at all. Time for the heavy boot of the law.
Good luck, Catman.
Catman,
You asked whether it would be wrong of you to serve your Cheater with harsher terms as a result of her not signing off on the already mediated settlement. I would say that you should do what is needed to get your divorce “over the line” so that you can move on with your life. You’ve given her the option of playing nicely – which she has declined – so now is the time not to play nicely.
And if that sounds a bit like a quote from “Roadhouse” it intentional. 😉
Cheaters do what your Cheater is doing for two reasons: because they like making life difficult for you and; because they know that once they sign the agreement, then the consequences come home to roost. And Cheaters hate consequences.
Best of luck!
LFTT
Thank you so much Tracy for reading my letter. Yeah she has been served, divorce terms are more in line with what im entitled to and mediated agreement with a clean break is still on the table. I sense she will make me look like the bad guy for harsh divorce terms even though she still has the choice to take the easy way out. Considering how much bullshit ive had to deal with her, it would actually not surprise me if she actually decided to fight the terms in court, which would put me in a situation where i would actually have to fly back across the Atlantic Ocean to appear in court. This would be the worst outcome for the both of us but i think she is trying to maintain control in my life by any means necessary. The new women friends she had made their exes lives miserable in the process as well so im assuming shes learning from the merry band of idiots around her, not to mention her sister whos kids i looked after when they were younger and took them to school in the morning. the sister who believes and buys all of fuckwits bullshit about not being happy.
Theres a saying, money doesnt buy happiness, but when it comes to divorce i beg to differ. Until the final stroke of the pen she will have to see me move on and enjoy my life, while being blocked on every conceivable method of communication that is of course
“But I think she is trying to maintain control in my life by any means necessary”–yes. It’s so crazy that some cheaters will keep going back to a now-dead relationship, trying to jolt a little life into it through sheer shittiness. My first husband was like this, and his need to torment me after we separated caused me great pain. (My second ex-husband cheated on me too, sadly; but he didn’t have this wrinkle in his personality. It was such a relief to deal with a reasonable person when we had to sign papers!)
Good luck to you, Catman–happily, this will end, and you’ll be able to move on!
It’s power over us- nothing more.
They’ll run costs up and try to sabotage us even though it’s them that ruined our marriages and wanted out.
They don’t want to pay for breaking the contract.
Good for you! She’s going to make you look like the bad guy anyways. Mine just made up shit about me to do that. I feel the part about her sister buying all the bullshit. I raised one of my brother in laws for nearly 10 years of his childhood. Loved that kid. Hurts like hell that they just don’t give a shit.
Catman,
Don’t lose a second’s sleep about being portrayed as “the Bad Guy” by your Cheater. It’s pretty much a “Cheater default setting” to cast you in this light when they don’t get what they believe that they are entitled to. And the fact that what they are reasonably entitled to and what they believe that they are entitled to are completely different things is just not something that they understand.
Moon on a stick anyone?
LFTT
I’ll be the biggest bitch in the galaxy to all and sundry by the time I’m done.
Unluckily for him, he never bothered to really get to know who he married.
“Bitch” is a badge of honor. Bitches get the job done!
I would x-out the phrase “when they don’t get what they believe they are entitled to”. You could give them the moon on a stick or in their hands or up their rear ends and they will still cast you as The Bad Guy (or Gal), period. It’s about the money and the stuff of course, but more than that it is about their public image. “I am The Great and Mighty Had to Do It for Love and Happiness Cheater, and which insignificant speck are you again? Oh, that’s right, the one who dances for my blessed attention. It’s MY game and you’ll play it MY way.” Unfortunately it looks like Catman will have to do just that until the judge bangs the gavel.
“And which insignificant speck are you again?” This exactly describes the role my (first) FW kept trying to cast me in, after I supposedly transgressed simply by telling my friends why he and I were separating. (Many of my friends already knew about the affair anyway–the gossip was all over town, well before I knew! But he furiously told me, “Yes, but they knew about it ONLY AS A RUMOR.”) For some FW’s, it’s the humiliation, the loss of face, that is the deepest motivating factor in all the acting out.
Dragging her feet on the divorce is the only power she has left over you. She’s not interested in losing that last bit of power.
But, NO, you will never look like the bad guy for doing what you need to get it done. You’ve been very patient about the favourable terms you offered, and it hasn’t worked thus far. What’s she going to say? “Your honour, I ignored his good offer for months, and now I don’t like his new offer, but I’m still not going to sign the good one that is still an option?”
I always loved the line, “I’m not haaapppyyy.” That’s what children say and seek. Continue to turn the screws.
yeah its like they all have a script, ILYBINILWY or im not happy. when theres always the choice of just leaving. My favourite from her was the constant request to be put on a pedestal, it got so ridiculous that i just picked her up once and put her on a chair
When reading your post Catman, I could hear the music from Kris Kross “jump” & the words “chump, chump, chump around” instead. This is what happens when you’re too kind, too accommodating, and give too many chances to fuckwit cheaters. Ya it’s time to up the ante! Baby’s put you in the corner & time to give both barrels now.
https://youtu.be/010KyIQjkTk
I’m so glad you are out of Wreckonciliation and moving forward. Sue her for divorce, get as much as you can. Everything Tracy said. This “Her documented obstruction is a very bad look. So, I think you’ve got a better chance of getting what you want.”
It sucks that you might have to fly back but can you give your divorce lawyer POA? I don’t know and it’s state by state for so much of that stuff. Soon you will be free and it will feel amazing. And I’m sorry for all the hell she put you through. You did not deserve any of this. I’m excited about your future.
yeah jurisdiction im from doesnt allow power of attorney for such matters. but for this to happen shed have to contest the divorce, and im pretty sure the judge would look at her and ask her why we are wasting the courts time, when it was resolved with mediation. But im dealing with someone who is a child in a womans body so i can never count this out. Ive managed to move on whatever way I could, new career, surrounded by family, more leisure. I just want to give any potential new partner an oppurtunity to build something without baggage in the background and a clean fresh slate, which is fair to them and to me.
Yes as my therapist explained (wasn’t ready to hear it at the time, but it was true) he will blame you on his deathbed. Mine cheated for years, hid money with his mother for years, then acted like a big baby about everything, made everything difficult in every way and 100 percent blamed me. He was creative! Hopefully the judge as you say will figure it out and help you get on your way. This will be over, and you will be free. I have come to accept some emotional residual stuff in my life, but accepting it has helped me move on, if that makes any sense. You are in great company here. I wish I had found this place earlier!
My therapist said the same — he will die saying that you ruined his life, not owning up to the mess he made. For that reason, she recommended that we not upend our lives to show up for his deathbed. That was some years ago, actually pre-pandemic.
But here we are, years later. He’s still around. I doubt that I’ll get the call at this point.
Yeah this site is more of what I needed rather than other sites that leave a door open for reconciliation or chalk it up to mid life crisis or walk away wife syndrome. Once you come to a realization that something that broken cannot be fixed you understand that you need to extricate yourself from that situation and any future life reconciling with such a person will only destroy your soul, while you have to deal with a bitter person who likely is always thinking or dreaming of what life could have been like with one of the schmoopies
Yes, indeed.
Most other sites have a built-in assumption (seldom examined or even fully acknowledged) that both parties in the marriage are – however imperfectly, or after however many failures – honestly committed to a mutual, good-faith effort to save the relationship. We can debate how likely that effort is to succeed (short-term or long-term), but if you’re starting from that position at least you have something to work with.
That’s not what I had – my wife had emotionally and sexually abandoned the marriage long before she even hinted anything was wrong, and she never looked back – and it sounds like you don’t have it either.
Before I can to this place, I referred to my time in marriage counselling as Abuse Enhancement. So I totally found my place here. And Tracy’s work on dismantling this idea that it is anything for the most part but snake oil is needed. Reconciliation Industry Complex- love it. Amen. It’s more often predatory, like the troubled teen industry- we’ll help your teen! No wait, we’re robbing you and making things worse. When people are at their most vulnerable, they’ll give you money for anything to make them better. Sickening.
In my experience, a lot of the nonsensical behavior (in the sense of behavior that is objectively not in their financial best-interest) is about power. You are on the other side of the ocean and have (I presume) close to zero contact / exposure to people in your old life, so her only option to exert control over you is to refuse to sign the divorce. Once it’s signed, I imagine you’ll never need to interact with her or her flying monkeys again.
“Luckily” for me I have kids with my FW, so she was perfectly happy to sign a settlement that gave her lots of control over my life via custody arrangements. (Some of that control was imaginary, as she believed – for reasons that I still cannot fully explained – that I had verbally agreed to some large concessions that were not present in the legal document).
I found it useful to agree to things that she *believed* gave her control over me. Can you argue passionately that you want a credenza (that you really hate) so that she has an incentive to sign a settlement where she “wins” it over you? Or let her have the wedding china that you know you’ll never be able to eat off of? Or promise things that are not legally enforceable, like you’ll give your firstborn to her? It may be worth even *actually* giving something up to get it done: I agreed to give FW all the photo albums because I knew I could have them scanned and just reprint anything I wanted.
This is brilliant.
My FW also had this thing about believing things that were unenforceable, wrong, or flat out illegal. I think it was an extension of the fantastical world in his head that he made up: He and Schmoopie as the benevolent heads of a finally happy family with subordinate ex-wife and adult children in attendance and obeisance. During negotiations it was fun to watch the mediating attorney’s eyebrows meet in the middle after one of FW’s demands. The mediator was not allowed to take sides and advise me, so I used those reactions as a way to guide myself in deciding what I would agree to. Ah, good times, good times.
I ended up with a term in the divorce settlement that, if FW was running late any morning when the kids were with her, she could call me and I was obligated to jump in the car, pick up the kids, and take them to school . FW refused to let me register the kids for school unless I agreed to this. My lawyer said she had never seen anything like it and tried to add the condition “unless IG is unavailable” to make it less unreasonable, but FW struck it out.
As with a lot of FW’s demands, this was a power play pure and simple. FW never actually *used* this clause: it was enough for her to know that I was legally obliged to be at her beck and call.
Oh geez the stuff they come up with. I hope your kids are soon to reach majority, then whatever power she has over you will be gone with the Georgian wind.
The sad thing is i actually let her have all of our household possessions, furniture, small appliances, electronics. Enough so to fill up 2 storage units which she has to pay for. I needed to cleanse myself of anything that had any ties to her, including the wedding ring which I sold. I basically kept a handful of personal belongings and my clothing and booked it overseas.
If you still had those things, you would have soon realized they all felt tainted. In the end it’s much better to get rid of those reminders and replace them with things that are “clean” of associations.
After D-day, I tossed out a $3K organic mattress just on the chance that the AP had ever breathed on it. I never did figure out if FW did the “marital bed desecration” thing that so many cheaters do though he did confess the AP repeatedly campaigned to get into our house. It was enough to know he’d ever texted the AP while sitting on the same bed we’d nursed feverish children in, not to mention conceiving those children in. If I could have burned it I would have but, alas, town ordinances.
As an interesting side note on this theme, notice how many cheaters (and, for that matter, many APs) seem to have exactly the opposite impulse regarding “reminders.” Like the AP desperately wanted to go to the same dentist that we’d gone to as a family and, for some reason, FW decided to take the AP on a dirty weekend in my hometown. It felt like a kind of kleptomania. So while chumps tend to view any object or even geographical location associated with cheating as toxic and repulsive– as if we could contract psychic syphilis just from proximity– cheaters/co-cheaters seem to be obsessively drawn to possessing objects and invading and peeing in all four corners of locations and settings that held deep significance for the primary relationship.
I always found this morbidly interesting. It makes it seem like “territorial creep” and a kind of symbolic cannibalism are an intrinsic part of what get cheaters’ rocks off. More than sex, these types are really addicted to betrayal and triangulation. But they need victims to do this so no wonder they have so much ambivalence about letting victims go.
Territorial creep or pissing on the hydrant to mark their territory? FW & OW often came to my town for dinner instead of their larger town with many more dining options. This was not long after D-day. Likely hoping they would run into me & they could rub their twu-wuv in my face. I knew that was Schmoopie’s game so I avoided public places for a long time. Likely stopped now since FW has finished with lovebombing & gone back to being an introvert.
Right? Morbid psycho skein untangling is kind of a hobby but that need of cheaters and APs to grab turf from the primary relationship and smear it with their anal gland secretions truly has me stumped. It’s so wildlly contradictory, like chumps are rock legends and cheaters are super fans doing the “Jimi Hendrix slept here” tour or stealing Amy Weinhouse’s used knickers. It’s so hateful and negating on the one hand yet strangely like parasocial obsession on the other.
What gives? No part of me relates. Is it sort of like eating the heart of one’s enemy?
Omg you are so spot on, I found out the FW took the APs to places that we would normally visit. It is definitely some sort of sick and demented psychological disorder, almost like a sense of trying to replicate the good things they had with you. Mine after a personal therapy session, apologized to me profusely, only to be followed by asking me to visit a local ice cream place near our home we’d use to visit, but I was so down I wasn’t in the mood. A month later I found out she immediately called him to go to the same place. It was so strange and borderline psychotic. But looking back I know I should have never let it get to that point
You just explained for yourself why you “let” anything get to any point. Because the things these disordered types do are so unrelatable and baffling that most normal people will become transfixed with shock like they’re watching an alien landing.
Like why the turf grabbing from primary relationships? See my reply to Orlando above. All cheaters seem to do it so it must be a “thing” but the why of it is one of the enduring mysteries of fuckwittery.
Anyway, I think that’s a big reason why we all go agog and freeze for a time. It’s a protracted “WT…???”
I’d have done the same if I didn’t have kids.
I understand that you’re feeling frustrated right now, but one day this will be over and you will literally have an ocean between you. One day you will be completely free.
My FuckWit Narcissitic Sociopath would not sign either, then the Judge dragged him into court. This was after starting day 3 of the combined custody and divorce trial where he asked for a settlement because his lawyer told him you are losing and are going to get killed. Just settle. So even with a settlement agreement, he refused to sign and is still paying me the settlement money 10 years later, $400 per month – I have liens on his property and he thought if he put them into a trust he would not have to pay me. Stupid boy! Since it has been so long since the divorce, I like to call the $400 I get each month as my Mad Money!
My cheater narc ex of 30 yrs dragged out the divorce for 3.5 years, and we didn’t have minor children, either. He refused to get his stuff out of the house until we filed a court order, he balked at the quadro, and he refused to sign the final agreement until ONE WEEK before the trial date which the judge had set because he was tired of the delay games.It was all so stressful. I was fully prepared for trial and apparently he wasn’t, so he signed the papers that could have been signed two years prior. It was so stressful and revealed how cruel, callous, and disordered this person really was/is. I would have never believed he was capable of being a monster but that was the reality. I have a feeling that the one affair I knew about was the tip of the iceberg as he travelled a lot for work. Completely no contact now. Healing is a process.
I too was struck by exactly these sentences in your comment: “It was so stressful and revealed how cruel, callous, and disordered this person really was/is. I would have never believed he was capable of being a monster but that was the reality.” It’s just horrible that so many of us chumps have had to go through this deep, traumatizing shock.
My ex fought both QDRO’s and everything related to them. I spent almost as much on closeout as I did on the divorce process, and most of it was on aspects of those.
He even tried to prevent me from retiring by calling my former employer and harassing them so bad that they had to blacklist him and actually take legal steps to cut that game off. The #2 in HR called me when we finally got it all squashed to tell me that they were backdating my retirement, and she asked, “What is his problem! Is he mentally ill or something?” Yes…yes…yes.
And the tip of the iceberg…I know there was more than I knew.
“It was so stressful and revealed how cruel, callous, and disordered this person really was/is. I would have never believed he was capable of being a monster but that was the reality.:
Same here. In my case, HE cheated and HE filed for divorce. Prolonged the painful process by stealing, providing false financial statements, hiding income, contesting the house appraisal and in the “attempted” mediation lied about everything for six hours!
After being together 42 years and married 36, I did not recognize the monster he had become. Divorced almost nine years and am so glad that he is someone else’s problem now.
“After being together 42 years and married 36, I did not recognize the monster he had become.”
Wow – this exact issue was the subject of my therapy session just yesterday. It’s mind blowing, isn’t it? I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that my FW had the mask glued to his narcissistic face for 37 years. Years!! Even with as many times as I read this blog and watch Dr. Ramani vids, I just don’t get it.
He wouldn’t file for divorce; he wanted to stay married but also have the freedom to “date” HIS EXACT WORDS. Of course I had to decline that generous offer (!). it’s like he was completely delusional which is exactly what the only marriage counselor we went to actually said to him, also that he needed serious mental health help. He ran off in a rage. Thank goodness for that MC. She told me to hurry up and get an attorney and I listened to her. I believe she possibly saved my life.
There are good therapists! I love to hear this.
If she won’t sign, get yourself a solid trial attorney and have them book the court date. It’s likely it won’t happen, but the threat of that can get it signed. The expense and aggravation is real if that happens. I get it.
I’ve told this story many times here, but that’s what we did. We had gone through twenty revisions (no mediation) of a settlement that largely involved retirement assets and cars. There was no real estate, no business interests, and the kids were in college. Both attorneys were frustrated, but especially my STBX’s. He was so over his client and had talked with mine about quitting.
So we gave them 24 hours to sign, or “see ya in court.” My STBX’s attorney was so frustrated that he said he’d quit if his client didn’t sign. My husband signed hours before the deadline.
Then, my ex made closeout messy, too, but eventually, he ran out of issues, even when he went pro se.
Yes, the only power he had left was the legal process.
The threat of a trial really works.
Most of the time, sadly.
A friend of mine retired and remarried in her 60’s. He was a wreck and dangerous, so she left and filed for divorce after almost three years. Other than dividing the increase in equity in the house and the cars, there wasn’t much.
It went to trial after several years, and she’s been to court twice since for contempt motions because he’s not following through, more than a year later.
So sorry. Some people have so much time to hurt others. Like a part time job.
Yes, she’s at the point where the divorce and closeout have taken longer than she was married.
Thankfully, after retiring to marry the jerk, they actually rehired her. but she is probably going to work much longer than she hoped in order to get everything covered.
One of the first things I thought reading this was hoping I never end up being treated by Catman’s STBX or her supervisor schmoopie in some medical situation because I’m getting the impression that creepery, selfishness, dishonesty and callousness like this can’t merely be idiosyncratic but pervasive in everything people do. Consequently I think it’s a good life strategy to shun those types in any capacity, not just intimate relationships. I wouldn’t want to contract that breed as tutors for kids, plumbers, accountants, you name it.
This is especially true regarding anything to do with safety and health. Reading so many chump stories of cheaters in medical fields is shedding a bit of light on the many unsettling, even traumatizing and Kafkaesque experiences the kids and I have had in doctors’ offices and hospitals and with school nurses. Seeing the dark side of organized medicine was unavoidable when the kids were little and suffering from complex allergies and health issues and this is largely why I ended up delving into crunchy strategies to keep everyone healthy enough to avoid going to doctors as much as possible.
When I was a kid, my pediatrician and dentist were family friends whom we saw at social events. It was all very Norman Rockwell so the way things are now is shocking. For awhile I wondered if it was just my imagination that things had changed this radically but the stellar pediatrician I finally found for the kids (three hours away) completely agrees with my take on it and then some.
Particularly after regularly spending half the year in a country with free public healthcare and having 99% warm and positive encounters with medical professionals, it’s clear it’s not just in my head. It brought home the fact that, the more organized medicine is controlled by private equity firms in the US and these professions are all about money and not a calling, the more related fields will probably be filled with sociopaths and it would be no big surprise if it increases the rate of cheating and furtive bonking in supply closets and empty exam rooms. I feel bad for the actual humans remaining in these fields because the whole thing seems like a big Jiffylube whorehouse. That impression is increasingly echoed by NHS health workers as the British medical system privatizes in leaps and bounds.
Anyway, I was thinking of this the last time we were in the US and an off-duty nurse or medtech in skin-tight fatigues, five pounds of makeup and a tacky spray tan attempted to ram her cart in front of me and two of the kids in Whole Foods. She gave us such a withering look of entitled impatience that mere mortals happened to get to the cheese counter before she did that the kids started laughing and speculating about what had crawled up her ass and died. My first guess was “Some married doctor with a lodge in Aspen.”
Yes i came to realize that this was indeed a massive problem in the health care field. Resident doctors studying with young nurses, she slept with a resident as well. Having her coworkers come over for a bbq once and hearing them share stories about who and what doctors they slept with, i was appalled that they had the ability to say these things in front of me a complete stranger, i could only imagine what their conversations in private were like. Apparently it is ranked by far the number 1 field of work for infidelity, and its easy to say youre working late, not to mention the clever doctors would throw countless christmas parties and conveniently invite nurses over. All that crap made me sick to my stomache. It may be a noble profession but its the perfect environment to fuel the entitlement of those working in it
WTF this is insane.
We’ve all heard many similar accounts here. The profession may be noble but the people who do this definitely aren’t. Plus I never understood the allure of having sneaky sex in germ- and bodily fluid-spattered exam cubicles. All that garish vinyl wallpaper, antiseptic stench and fluorescent lights– ugh.
I worked in media which, as an industry, is also notoriously “sexually permissive” so to speak, though anyone watching the Weinstein saga knows “permission” isn’t always present despite the fact there were always plenty of willing participants. I was never prudish but what I witnessed was a disgusting stew of particularly icky sex mixed with abuse of power that put the rest of us at risk. I thought the indy film The Assistant really nailed how dark and awful this is.
I’ve read reports about the same dynamics going on in medicine– where the people who are actually dedicated and not “in the game” end up paying a price for all the others who are. Or worse– patients end up paying for it (the horrific Lucy Letby case in the UK had some of these themes).
As a lifelong feminist, it’s always been difficult for me to wrap my head around all the “hypergamy” that goes on in profitable or glamorous industries– people who basically bonk their way up economic, social and career ladders. Particularly sickening is when these types try to hijack feminism as their cover excuse– gag. It always sounded about as “woke” as white nationalists occasionally yapping along to rap songs. And I noticed pretty early on that the “willing participants” were nearly as sick and dangerous as the pervy honchos. At the very least, they were kind of like Yellowstone tourists who ignore all the signs and think it’s cute to feed the bears. But it was usually worse than that. The willing participants would also typically pimp fresh interns and new hires to curry favor and would also throw anyone under the bus who complained about genuine harassment because these collaborators were usually screwing the culprits. There was often something sadistic in it, like no else was allowed to maintain self respect or bodily integrity because these people gave those things up ages ago.
At what price Peace. STOP THE Cake and coddling!!!
My technique was to go absolutely CONTACT( thank you Tracy)Speak ONLY through lawyers, keep a protection order to maintain zero contact and safety, no negotiations until.the very end after saying no to all other negotiations. Did at the very end agree to mediation in separate rooms, remained zero contact for mediation, at the end gave up all I could to get out immediately and he had to sign right then or the process would go on. It helped he wanted to get married to his on line OW who had flown unto town. But Letting go at the end saved me legal fees and court. It was well worth it when you have a disordered person and no functioning brain cells except for one function. Know your enemy.
Ach, my poor man, how does one deal with the insane people of life. Well, there’s an old joke: “Why does a divorce COST so much? Because it’s worth it.” Unfortunately, it’s true. When you get to that point of being tied to what has become almost a literal ball and chain, you’ll do almost anything to get rid of it, and you have to. Your mistake was to show kindness, because you’re a decent man, and you wanted to do the right thing by your ball and chain even though she’s the one who shit all over you. You wanted to do it the right way, the easy way, the clean way, the sensible way…..and she won’t. Because she’s insane. Morally, perhaps clinically. I don’t think of this just as her wanting to ruin your life by exerting power over you, although there is that, but I also think of this as her wanting to maintain her last rope to the lifeboat you are as she gets towed under by the Titanic wreckage of her life….that she created. She IS the ice berg. The marriage is the Titanic. You are the lifeboat, you’re the familiar, you’re an island of refuge, you’re the last bit of sanity, even if it’s in name only as you’ve physically moved on….she’s set herself adrift at age 40 with no spouse and no children, just a carousel of men who don’t care about her. This, to me, is why she so tenaciously clings to the island of sanity and order that you represent.
So time to cut that rope and let the bitch sink. I was raised by crazy, disordered people and I fucking hate them as a group. They’re destructive and yet they demand our compassion. Compassion kills….us. No one can ever fill in this endless pit of need, it will just waste your life. Time to save yourself and sink her. She’s made her decision. Get the most ruthless, fucking vicious animal of a lawyer you can find, if you don’t already have one, and make it clear that THIS IS THE LAST THING SHE’S GONNA GET. Sign it or we’ll figure out how to waste every last cent that YOU have, sister. Make it hurt. Make it so ugly that she won’t want to be with you because it hurts. Pry those fingers off with a chain saw if you have to.
We can safely have compassion towards these freaks…..from a safe distance. But when you’re in a fight, go all in and be sure you win. You must get your life back. I wish you good luck and I wish I could help but go in there and kick her crazy, loser ass with the meanest werewolf of a lawyer you can find. And feel sorry for her much much later – if ever.
“.she’s set herself adrift at age 40 with no spouse and no children, just a carousel of men who don’t care about her”. Holy crap. Compassion kills. Read the children’s book The Giving Tree as a what not to do. Or read Stefan Zweig Beware of Pity. Love this so much. you nailed it.
Dang, Mehitable!
That’s the best post I’ve ever read on this site. I shook my raised fist in agreement while hooting with laughter. What a keeper!
ME TOO!!
Yes, when I paid those legal bills, I told myself that it was going to be worth it. My older attorney wrote off a lot of it, but it still was tens of thousands when my ex finally let go. It didn’t have to be that way.
It strikes me that some people treat money like bullets. It’s a terrible thing to do.
It really, really didn’t make financial sense for my ex to drag it out the way he did. He was retired for medical reasons, so earning more wasn’t an option unless he had something on the side that I didn’t know about. He did NOT want to disclose his finances during the divorce process like I did and seemed to have acquired more credit cards, so my attorney said I could assume that he was charging luxuries for who-knows-who as well as his legal bills. During closeout, we also found out that he had drawn down his retirement accounts.
If he had been reasonable, we could have done it for a few thousand each. But no…
You put the whole situation into a context even i wasnt able to, thank you. Yeah it got to the point where my lawyer was sending her letters to get her to sign, and even then she would tell my lawyer that she had a lawyer and her lawyer would contact mine. Imagine trying to manipulate my own lawyer but avoiding and lying to buy herself time, i even had to tell my lawyer shes full of shit and demand her lawyers details or the process will move forward and it did
I wish I could give you a big hug, but as you can see from what we’re all telling you….no more mercy, she’s brought this totally on herself and she needs to be pried off like a barnacle. Believe me, I know crazee and you always need to avoid them when you can even though we all have natural sympathy, they’re only gonna drag you down with them. It’s inevitable. The only people who can effectively deal with them are those who are NOT personally involved and don’t have personal stakes. Like lawyers and psych nurses.
I suggested above but I’ll put it here to – check out The Kiffness on YouTube – he has great music videos he makes from animal vocalizations especially cats and they are AMAZING. He’s cheered me up a lot in the past few months since I’ve discovered him. It’s good to know there are still people like this in the world, and he gives some of the money to animal welfare orgs too.
thank you for that suggestion i will certainly check that out
Yeah, it’s time to stop being nice. She’s going to make you fight for the divorce so all contact with her stops and you go for everything you can get. You don’t have to be greedy and it’s not revenge, you just follow the law and get what you are entitled to. She missed her chance at the easy, favorable to her divorce by making it hard for you. That’s not revenge, it’s consequences.
And when she calls you to “talk” about it, you don’t answer. Because you’ve already changed her contact name to “Bitch begone” or whatever tickles your fancy to inspire you to never pick up one of her calls again. You NEVER need to talk to her again. The lawyers can do that. It may sound impossible but I was married 20 years and had a child with my FW and have never spoken to him again since I finally got right of him. Mine dragged his feet on moving out, even AFTER the divorce. He hated me so much and wanted to start his new life so badly but he whined to me, “Can’t I just stay here to save money until the lease is up?!”
They are insane and destructive, the particular flavor doesn’t matter. Get what’s owed to you and give her zero attention. She is for the lawyer to deal with. You owe her nothing.
Mine was living in another state and never showed up here again, as far as I know. The very last phone call I had with him was when he called to say that he wanted a divorce (’bout time…). We had no in-person aspects during the divorce process.
Completely appropriate and gave me the space I needed.
bitch begone, i love that one. yeah since ive moved here i kept my old number for a few weeks to deal with things from there, once i changed my number to a local one here after requesting directly from her to sign the agreement, to which she replied dont worry the money is in a safe place. I then cut off all contact, social media, phone numbers, blocked on everything possible. that was 3 months ago so im glad i did that for my own sanity
Thank you for writing this!
When I separated, I offered _extremely_ generous terms so I could move on with my life. At each step, she fought to avoid supporting her children and demanded lawyers. My lawyer took one look at her finances and got me a substantial equalization payment.
I finally got a draft agreement in mediation and… she’s simply refusing to sign. At this point, I just want it to end.
yeah i waited and hoped that the mediated agreement would be signed. I planned my finances around agreement being dealt with but that was negotiating in good faith and when you try to negotiate in good faith with someone who is bitter, resentful and sees you as the enemy, probably even portrays you as the enemy to their new love interest, their own family, friends and anyone else who thinks they are a poor soul, then you got no fighting chance to negotiate. Once a person is served with divorce documents, they have a short time to reply or act and it can no longer be dragged on. It will cost a lot more money but so will doing nothing, and in my case i have no access to proceeds of our marital home and i could use them to clear all debts and wipe the slate clean.
Do it. Time is money. Get rid of her. They will play victim because it’s such a great pick up line- mine did- but you can’t worry about that. Move on. The smart people who knew you will come to see the truth. It comes out eventually. My sons figured it out and all I had to do was not do a thing.
Come and sit with me, Catman.
I’m right there with you.
I was treated to a smorgasbord of abuse during the time we were together, then cheated on and abandoned in my parent’s country.
I’ve had 3 hearings- two of which were no shows by him, served at least 3 lots of court papers, requested discovery around 5 times, subpoenaed him once, been served by the police with a family violence order which forbids me to go within 200m of my house due to his lies, and now getting ready for an interim defended hearing before the judge- he won’t be prepared and probably won’t show up.
even my lawyers canned meditation after he refused to acknowledge any paperwork like I warned them he would.
All to the tune of $20,000 and counting.
One of the first things I did was put a caveat on the house.
This is the easy part- getting him out of the house and getting what he owes me will be the real work.
Stay strong, Catman- we can do this and win our lives back.
thank you for your kind words, yes these people are dysfunctional. A normal falling apart from your spouse with normal agreed upon separation or divorce would be a god send, but we are dealing with god less selfish and evil human beings, where the only person that matters to them is the one staring back at them in the mirror, if they can even bring themselves to actually look in a mirror
It’s fascinating to me, in a grisly way, how many cheaters deliberately destroy their own lives, like the blow it up with a bomb – one of those big round black bombs with the fuse like in the old cartoons. I think on some level, probably unconscious they want to make major changes in their lives – basic, critical, fundamental changes….but they are unable to do this logically by making plans, decisions, working with others to actually create something new that might last. Their idea of moving would be to blow up the house so they have to move to a new house….but they don’t have much choice of what’s out there as the best is either taken, or too expensive so they have to settle for that trailer by the river. I think they generally end up making a change without a difference so they keep having to do it because they won’t change themselves.
“but they are unable to do this logically by making plans, decisions, working with others to actually create something new that might last. ”
AND if plans actually exist that would work, the cheater sabotages it purposely so that if it fails this gives them an excuse to cheat because you just weren’t good enough.
From principia scientific:
“The stupid ones are more fearsome than Mafia, the military-industrial complex or the Communist International. They’re an unorganized group, without a leader or norm, but in spite of that, they act in perfect harmony, as guided by an invisible hand.
“With the smile on his lips, as if he were doing the most natural thing in the world, the stupid will appear on the spur of the moment to spoil your plans, destroy your peace, complicate your life and work, make you lose money, time, good humor, productivity, and all this without malice, without remorse and without reason. Stupidly”.
– professor of economic history Carlo Cipolla.
It applies to cheaters too, and he was right in more ways than he could imagine.
My older attorney used language like “blew up the house and burned it down.” Then closeout was nearly as bad as the divorce and the younger attorney said one time, “Who does he think he is, God?”
LOL.
“Ride the Rooster Carousel.” Catman, you are a beautiful, beautiful man(and any lover of cats is a friend of mine.)
I hope you cream this idiot in court. Sounds like you’ve given her more than her share of chances(another trait of the Fuckwit Culture.)
yeah we got 2 cats that she wanted while we went through procedures to try and have children, they ended up being my best friends as they stayed with me, one of them would sleep on my chest and lick my forehead when i slept. They seem to be empathetic little buggers, cause with her one of them would scratch her at night, like they knew what was in her soul. Of everything i left behind those 2 little guys are the one thing i regret having to give up, they are probably lucky if they get fed on time now
That’s the hardest part.
Out of my three cats, one was badly neglected and two got abandoned
My brother and I hunted them down and got them all back- my old girl was found 100 miles away when she was picked up by a ranger.
They live with my brother while I get things sorted out – he FaceTimes them to me most nights 😊
I knew he’d be difficult, but it’s truly blown me away how horrible he’s been and how he extended that behaviour to our family pets!
For that alone, he’d better be saying his prayers right about now.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that a FW would neglect and abandon animals.
Considering how she snatched the pets she didn’t really care about, I hate to think of how she would have weaponized custody in the case you’d had children together. Your future children will thank you for getting out of this glue trap.
I let her have the pets because I moved overseas but yeah maybe not having children was a godsend. And I was loyal despite this not being a possibility
I have a suspicion your STBX loathes the idea of you ever having that possibility with anyone else. All cheaters seem to be like dogs with two bones who, even if they feel like they’ve chewed everything off the original bone and are busy with the second (or third or fifth or twenty-eighth) will still growl if anyone comes near the first. And if that first “bone” looks like it might want to move on, the “dog” will do everything they can to bury it.
In clinical literature this pattern of push-me/pull-you behavior is said to relate to reactive attachment disorder which, in regular person-speak translates as “Not your problem.” Nevertheless, disordered people seem to specialize in post-separation abuse and, despite the fact they could never fully commit to any relationship, also never seem to fully let go and continue to be problematic. In fact, some of these types have a nearly telepathic ability to sense on the wind when former victims are about to move on with their lives. A lot of people on this forum report how, even when they’re completely out of contact with exes and living thousands of miles away, the second a former chump starts to say, feel happy again or meets someone really promising, exFWs will quite suddenly turn up again like obstructive bad pennies.
I think one big clue that FWs are hardly “free love” mavens and actually quite stolidly monogamous even if one-sidedly and hypocritically so is how much they rely on chumps’ integrity to enforce that one-sided arrangement. So I’m guessing one of the reasons she’s dragging out the divorce for as long as possible is she knows that, quite unlike her (who clearly has no snobbery towards homewreckers and mate poachers), you’d probably be uninterested in or even wary towards the types of people who’d willingly get involved with a still-married person. So as long as she doesn’t sign the papers, it’s like a combo penalty box/chastity belt preventing you from effectively moving on much less, God forbid, ever starting your own family.
“the second a former chump starts to say, feel happy again or meets someone really promising, exFWs will quite suddenly turn up again like obstructive bad pennies.”
That is quite literally my specific fear.
If I find something worth my time before I am completely free I KNOW she will swoop in shrieking harpy style to destroy everything she can.
And even afterwards, I know I have to somehow slip out of NY area to somewhere else.
Somehow.
She made the financial situation very difficult with her destructive behavior.
Otherwise if given even a hint of a chance to be a problem, she will be a problem and then some.
I’ve repeatedly told her that I don’t trust her.
Also any time I’ve had to be anywhere near her I ask if it’s a ploy to play stupid games or set me up.
She swears not.
But that it’s even something I have to say is telling.
When I originally joined the military my plan was to use Montgomery g.i. bill to go to college since I wouldn’t have to pay back student loans.
She threw the paperwork out then made false accusations on me to, in her words, get me arrested and kicked out of the military.
How she thought that would go down I don’t know.
Me going to college she at least explained sort of: “I don’t want you to go to college”.
And her flying monkeys all chimed in as well, apparently it was “abusive” of me to want to go to college.
No, I don’t understand that.
Don’t think I ever will.
Why she didn’t want you to go to college? Because, if it were her, she’d use the opportunity to meet other people.
It’s actually sort of surprising that she allowed you to see a blatant glimpse of her territoriality and need to control because, from what you’ve described, it seems like she usually prefers to conceal that MO the better to reverse the charge onto you. It sounds like her mask slipped in a moment of “weakness” and she exposed her underlying agenda.
Because abusive personalities often mask their own dependency on victims with a lot of “you ain’t the boss of me” kind of bravado, it may not seem clear that they deeply fear being abandoned and replaced. But, if you consider every form of abuse they commit as a kind of confession of their own darkest fears of what a partner could do to them, it starts to make sense. In that light, cheating– for example– could have multiple purposes:
1) Cheating helps abusers mask dependency from themselves and others by posturing the reverse– that they don’t “need” the partner– but also by “beating the victim to the punch”– cheating before they get cheated on because, in their demented minds, the latter is a given. If, in the abuser’s twisted life experience, there are only two possibilities in a relationship– being the perpetrator or being the victim– they opt for perpetrator.
2) Cheating hedges bets by lining up potential replacement partners in case they get abandoned.
3) Cheating displaces the fear of abandonment to the partner. This also helps to mask the abuser’s dependency because, if a partner is clinging to their legs and heartbroken, they’ll be less likely to split and won’t have enough confidence or self esteem left to seek a new partnership.
4) Since, again, in the demented mind of an abuser, loyalty and safety aren’t possible in relationships, cheating can be a means of gathering allies to outnumber and gang up on the partner in preparation for the expected standoff which also makes the abuser feel less vulnerable and dependent.
One of the clinical theories used to explain the above is “reenactment compulsion” or the tendency of disordered people to replay the worst traumas and betrayals from their own childhoods but often with roles reversed– where they get to play the “powerful perpetrator” role rather than the “helpless victim” role. Of course none of this would be “conscious” since the individual is simply repeating relationship dynamics they learned from infancy. They know in their guts these methods “work” to empower perpetrators and destroy partners’ agency and independence because they saw these things “work” in their own family systems.
Anyway, bear in mind that all of the above is criminal theory developed in prison settings and applies to some of the most dangerous perpetrators. The reason they “mask” dependency and keep it secret is because that dependency is demented and pathologically infantile and nothing resembling normal adult reciprocal love. As the theory goes, they don’t just fear people would reject them if that side of them were known, they know they’d be rejected because that kind of mewling, grasping, raging dependency in adults is universally repulsive.
Especially if any of the above rings bells for you, you definitely should never agree to be alone with her or any of her enablers because, at the very least, she definitely will set you up. But it could also get worse than that. Going NC is the best bet to protect yourself and your future.
I don’t know why she didn’t want me to go to college.
She would pout and cross her arms if I pressed her on it.
She would on one hand tell me that I was smart enough I could do anything, then immediately turn around and tell her boyfriends that I was just so incredibly stupid.
And as far as doing anything goes, it carried an asterisk and a note saying “anything that she allowed me to do.”
And even then, the second she no longer wanted me to do whatever it was I was to immediately up and leave whatever it was.
Or else flying monkeys and threats of divorce or arrest.
Omg i think you hit the nail on the head. I think she knows I’m looking for a good quality partner and if I have that baggage tied to me a good partner with good values will want me to be free of this problem. I’ve already started dating and I feel guilty not being fully free. I want a woman who has a problem with me still being tied to my ex and I think she knows this.
Sigh. I think the chump problem with trying to date before the ink is dry is dual. It’s the same problem we’d run into trying to have “revenge affairs.” In principle it might be perfectly justifiable since cheaters pretty much cancel all contracts with their behavior. But I think that, in practice, normal people still some an internal “guilt brake” about moving forward before being officially free. Plus, again, we tend to be pretty suspicious of anyone else who could cross that boundary. Like, ew, are they secretly drawn by the sick thrill of poaching someone taken?
Cheaters have such an advantage over us in that sense because their bar is basically in hell… and hell is pretty crowded lol. Anyone willing to do Freddy Krueger or any local rotting zombie crack Madonna could quickly fill up their dance card and feel like the hottest kid in school! 😀
Yeah for me i want someone to be bothered by this because it means they have their values in check
Of course. And abusive personalities know this better than anyone since it’s what they counted on to enforce one-sided monogamy (by the way, virtually all domestic abusers cheat). She won’t win in the end but it won’t be for lack of trying.
Yeah she was both verbally and physically abusive, like a child who couldn’t control her impulses and couldn’t self regulate. She basically sabotaged our marriage with the abuse and then used my reactions or my emotional state as a way to show my weakness. Will definitely never forget having my nose broken when confronting her for the first time after discovering her infidelity, it was as if I was going to screw up a beautiful thing she had going with him while I was in the way of this
Even if the statistical rates and degree of domestic violence tend to differ between genders, it’s not like women can’t be batterers or dangerous. She belongs in jail.
Yeah, even then she had excuses for hitting me. Disordered nothing more nothing less
Every abuser on earth has excuses. None are ever the instigators and all are “victims of their own victims.” The magical ability to shift blame, completely rewrite events and even fully believe their own fabrications is apparently largely what perpetuates abuse. If you want a hopium-free explanation for the behavior, click download for the following paper and then bear in mind it’s about serial killers: https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4698/9/2/46
So far I’ve never read anything in the clinical literature about serial killers being fixable with a little therapy, hugs and understanding. If this theory is right and the blameshifting mental trick is one of the roots of serial criminality, it’s probably not much of a stretch to assume serial domestic abusers aren’t fixable either.
Anyway, bottom line is you’re a survivor of what sounds like very serious domestic abuse. I gather that it can be harder for men to be stuck with that label because of cultural expectations and also harder to find support. But I hope you consider it. I think in the past decade there’s been an increase in support groups and therapy resources for survivors of coercive control that are often more inclusive and more welcoming to male survivors than traditional domestic violence survivor resources since coercive control– due to being a “subviolent” form of abuse– is a bit more “equal opportunity.” In other words, it’s generally more often recognized in that arena that women can be coercive controllers because it doesn’t take greater physical strength to be a master mindfucker.
The same recovery principles apply as they would for battering survivors plus advocates and therapists who are really versed in the clinical research of Evan Stark– coiner of the term coercive control and spearhead of the movement to criminalize it– will understand that the vast majority of survivors count the emotional and psychological aspects of abuse as even more paralyzing than assault. Some survivors of coercive control were also physically abused but simply find the construct of coercive control more comprehensive and more likely to address the psychological torture they experienced than traditional DV advocacy. I’m also starting to see more recognition in that arena that cheating is often part of or even instrumental to psychological torture and control.
I imagine one of the bigger hitches for male survivors can be that most of the standard approaches to domestic abuse are based on a feminist construct– that some men see women as inferior and feel entitled to keep women under their thumbs to flex their power and increase their sense of masculinity and dominance, etc. But then how are male victims of female abusers supposed to reconcile this? And how can they process what may be different injuries to identity that have different ramifications for men than women? When I worked in advocacy for abuse survivors back in the day, those questions always bothered me because the network I worked with did occasionally get approached by very credible male survivors. But it seems I wasn’t the only one bothered by the hitch and, in recent years, I’ve been seeing more social research attempting to bridge that gap.
One particular angle is starting to make sense– the idea that “toxic masculinity” and “toxic femininity” (exaggerated identification with rigid and destructive concepts of gender) have a lot of overlaps in terms of negative belief systems and coercive relationship strategies. https://scholarworks.umb.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1046&context=doctoral_dissertations
Since all of this is new thinking, it may take time for support groups and therapists to catch up never mind the usual pop-psych rant forums. Frankly the whole arena of domestic abuse research and advocacy only started crawling out of the dark ages in the last half century, consequently every survivor who seeks support is taking a risk that their personal experience hasn’t yet been fully understood or codified. I remember how, back in the bad old days before coercive control was even a recognized thing, survivors of “mere” psychological torture felt like they were wandering alone between wagon circles and were often rejected from shelters and support groups because they didn’t have broken bones and bruises. The network I worked was among the few that didn’t set the bar for domestic abuse at fists and fire irons. I guess that momentum grew and thankfully this eventually got the attention of social researchers like Evan Stark and others.
Anyway, advice is cheap and even as anyone urges you to seek support, I understand that it’s not always easy to find the right fit but all survivors deserve to to be heard and get consensus. You’re certainly not alone here.
Thank you for your well worded and thoughtful response. Luckily for me I’ve had the luck of having a really good therapist who understands and is sympathetic to a lot of what you mentioned. That coupled with a stint in withdrawal last year, which had a lot to do with me turning to alcohol to cope and numb the pain, I’ve made use of whatever support system I can. I’ve read a lot of psych stuff and have come to the conclusion that she is a covert narcissist, although not diagnosed, the characteristics fit her to a tee. Not to mention what feels like coercively trying to control my life now by purposely dragging out the process and causing financial problems for me, as I had to take on debt while going through stress leave last year and trying to keep up payments. A problem that was created by me being completely blindsided and not having the ability to prepare for such a mindfuck. She actually had the courage to mock me last year when I said we cannot sustain this financially as I was still living in the house and she was having the time of her life. I was told “how would you deal with your finances if you were alone, you’d have to govern yourself”, all while refusing my requests to sell the house and now refusing to actually let me clear my debt and starting over financially. It’s borderline psychotic, considering shes on whats now her 4th or 5th relationship in the last 2 years while refusing to let me begin my new life completely. I dont honestly know how this is any different from being a hostage
From what you describe, your STBX doesn’t sound “borderline” anything. She sounds like full-blown real-deal psychopathic.
Bear in mind that, in domestic violence advocacy channels, financial abuse is considered to be a form of nearly literal “violence” because of the life-altering, sometimes even life-shortening effects of it. Not to add unnecessary worry to your already stressed-out situation but just imagine what her antics could cost you if you suddenly developed cancer or another life-threatening medical condition that required certain out-of-pocket treatments. Or if you suddenly needed to help a sick child in the family. Not that– God forbid– anything like that is going to happen but these things are always in the realm of the possible which is what makes her behavior particularly unconscionable.
As far as feeling like a hostage, some of the leading academic DV experts I read when training to work with survivors argued that many of the psychological and tactical control methods used by domestic abusers are “virtually indistinguishable” from the methods used by professional interrogators to “break” political captives.
The messed up thing is shes convinced people like her sister that she wasnt happy and instead of giving her a reality check and encouraging her to save the marriage when the opportunity was offered she gaslit her into making me into her twisted reality version of me. Mind you I treated her sister and family as my second family and their children grew up with me in their life from birth to adulthood. Many favours done for them, but she turned them into enablers. So much so she even tried to do the same with their parents, but they knew better snd supported me until this day, because they knew the type of man I was. Apparently my drinking to cope after d day was a gotcha for how I was, not understanding what i was going through. It was a way for her to shift blame to me. This is commonly known as reactive abuse.
The most frustrating thing of all, i had set up investment accounts for both us before so that we could work a common goal towards an earlier retirement. I instead had to tap all of these investments dry to make ends meet after the fallout. And ive probably been forced to add 5 years + to my working life just to be at the same position i was when this all started.
The only saving grace for me was leaving the country and moving back home with my parents overseas where i could stop the financial bleeding, had i stayed there id be paying above market rate rent and waiting on a settlement just to clear debt. That being said ive already spent the equivalent of 2 years minimum wage salary here on legal fees and debt servicing costs.
And as time keeps passing, id still like to be able to meet someone and potentially start my own family, but because the financial and legal noose around my neck it is like an uphill climb.
Just a reminder I am still able to be a father and i stayed with her despite it not being a possibility with her, i tried to do the honourable thing and stay true to my vows. And my reward was a shit kicking storm. And i cant even move forward with the process of potentially starting a family because the type of woman that would want this will have nothing to do with a man whos still legally married in 2 countries and financially tied like this
There are many decent, intelligent women out there who are looking for someone simply responsible and honest in all things including finances, not necessarily rolling in material wealth. To paraphrase CL, with or without bank, rest assured your stock runs very high with the right kind of people. You can well afford to table those concerns for a bit and channel your energy into recovering and rebuilding your life and perspective.
Speaking of which, a trauma therapist who consulted with the advocacy network I worked for said something that stuck with me, that one of the chief things that abusers do is commit “perspecticide”– insidiously erode and damage victims’ world views, views of other people and views of themselves and replace these things with abusers’ own nihilistic, twisted, sick perspectives. Even parts of the trauma itself like the “telescoping sense of time” or the feeling time is not on your side may simply be part of the “infection” your STBX transferred to you. I think it can take time to exorcise those toxic alien views and reclaim your own outlook and sense of self again.
Also very glad to hear you found a therapist who gets it. The kind of “triage” we get at the height of crisis can really make a difference in keeping the damage from sinking in too deeply. As awful as things are right now and also completely in spite of your ex’s best efforts to confuse and derail you, you could actually end up ahead of the game in terms of wisdom and understanding yourself, life and other people. Obviously something lead you here which shows some pretty stellar instincts. Even if it doesn’t feel that way now, I suspect you’re going to land very well in the long run.
I’m gonna pass this on to you and hope you enjoy it as an animal lover: Look up The Kiffness on YouTube (apparently kiff means surfer cool in South Africa). He and his friends do AMAZING music with animals, especially cats – he works their various sounds into literal songs with orchestration and lyrics….he’s simply amazing and it’s really joyful. I don’t want to post a specific link but one of my favorites is “Hold onto my Fur”….yeah, it sounds crazy, but it’s wonderful.
Catman – since the legal process for you involves inconvenient and probably expensive travel, my “legal” advice to you (not a lawyer here) is to have your attorney include in the dissolution contract a penalty schedule. For example “wife to remit to husband $xxxx dollars from sale of vehicles by xx-xx-2025. 1% penalty per day for late payment” or something/s like that. My ex-FW finally signed the agreement, only to repeatedly delay paying out my settlement. I finally had to threaten to sue nearly a year after we both signed, as there was no non-payment penalty included. Something about “in addition to original settlement, FW pays court costs of $20,000 per day” finally got me a check for what was owed. (Btw that is a real estimate of court costs according to my attorney). In your case, you don’t want to have to go back to your home country to sue for noncompliance, so make sure it will be more expensive and inconvenient for her as well.
yeah a stipulation which i insisted on was that she would be paying for my legal expenses if she takes the court route, i wanted as big a disincentive as possible to be there to prevent the need for my appearance in front of a judge, and i suspect if that were to happen the judge would not have anything favorable to say to her or her lawyer if she chooses that path
I hadn’t yet found this site when I was mediating my divorce with my ex. After a few rounds, things had stalled. I gave him the “This is my best and final offer, otherwise we go to court.” That got things across the finish line. Since you’ve had her served, generous, mediated offer is off the table. If she wants to settle anything, she can settle with your more favorable to you terms. FW’s hate the new post-separated chump that no longer rolls over and falls in line. How dare we set boundaries and take things to court for legal settlements! It’s also a new feeling for us! Standing up for ourselves and what we’re legally entitled too. The novelty may have you feeling like a bit of a jerk, but you’re not. Good luck with this home stretch.
2 years 5 months, that’s how long my ex has dragged out our divorce.
Curious considering she said that it was SUCH an emeeeeeergencyyyyy that she HAD to divorce me. (Imagine dramatic wrist to forehead and fake fainting to that, you’re close to her dramatic look on such announcements)
Wish someone could explain how 2 years 5 months is an emergency.
Looks like there is a light at the end of the tunnel though.
Maybe.
Unless she really follows type and super screws up and I have to return to battling NY state for a copy of my marriage certificate.
I’d already sunk a year into that and gotten nowhere, NY sucks.
Still wondering why the hell she was crying on May 14th when she finally said that divorce proceeding was started.
If it wasn’t what she wanted then there’s this little thing called communication and fidelity.
All she has to do was not screw her cousin, actively communicate, and if she couldn’t assist in progress then at least don’t actively hinder it.
But considering where this is being posted, you obviously know what she chose at the time it mattered.
My cheater did something similar, dragging things out for a year not signing till tax returns were due. He finally signed the divorce stip because he needed me to file jointly with him or he would have had to pay a lot more in taxes. The way my cheater has behaved
during the divorce, you would think I’m the one who cheated! It’s a power move. It is fun for her to torment you. This is hard for you to realize because you are not motivated to act this way. She also apparently has friends egging her on. She will enjoy driving up your legal fees. Do what you gotta do to end it.
One thing I’ve learned on this site is that you don’t have to wait around for your ex to sign papers. You can go to court and force the divorce. It’s expensive, yes, but you can get it done.
Thank goodness I’ve never needed to know this!
The phrase “the rooster (cock) carousel” is often used on redpill / MGTOW / incel forums.