All Hail Joss Whedon the Conquering Douchebag

Joss Whedon, ersatz “feminist” and creator of the TV series “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” was just outed by his ex-wife Kai Cole in a guest blog post at The Wrap, a Hollywood news site, as being a serially cheating douche. It’s a sad day for vampire slayers and cake eaters everywhere.

Whedon apparently had a nice little mindfuck going — he told his wife he just loved women! But not that way. He was a feminist!

There were times in our relationship that I was uncomfortable with the attention Joss paid other women. He always had a lot of female friends, but he told me it was because his mother raised him as a feminist, so he just liked women better. He said he admired and respected females, he didn’t lust after them. I believed him and trusted him. On the set of “Buffy,” Joss decided to have his first secret affair.

UBT: Hey, what you call a blowjob in the parking lot, I call respect.

UBT: Do I fuck around on you? Blame my mother.

UBT: My “friendships” trump your discomfort. #nothingtoseehere #justadmiration

Then later, after he confessed everything, he told me, “I let myself love you. I stopped worrying about the contradiction. As a guilty man I knew the only way to hide was to act as though I were righteous. And as a husband, I wanted to be with you like we had been. I lived two lives.”

UBT: I let myself love cake. I stopped worrying. If cake is wrong, I don’t want to be right. But the only way was to hide my cake and publicly eschew carbs. NO! NOT ANOTHER BITE! I couldn’t possibly! Sugar is death! I’m allergic to gluten!

I wanted to be with cake. I stuffed my gob with Twinkies. I free-based brownie mix. I licked the frosting off the birthday cakes of small children when they weren’t looking.

I lived two lives.

When he walked out of our marriage, and was trying to make “things seem less bewildering” to help me understand how he could have lied to me for so long, he said, “In many ways I was the HEIGHT of normal, in this culture. We’re taught to be providers and companions and at the same time, to conquer and acquire — specifically sexually — and I was pulling off both!”

Joss was a victim of the patriarchy! He was just adhering to cultural norms! (Norms that sucked his dick, but must we quibble?) He was taught to CONQUER!

And doesn’t he deserve a Gold Star? He pulled it off! He was GOOD at it!

UBT: Good at gaslighting. Fifteen straight years of lies = The Height of Normal.

Fifteen years later, when he was done with our marriage and finally ready to tell the truth, he wrote me, “When I was running ‘Buffy,’ I was surrounded by beautiful, needy, aggressive young women. It felt like I had a disease, like something from a Greek myth. Suddenly I am a powerful producer and the world is laid out at my feet and I can’t touch it.” But he did touch it. He said he understood, “I would have to lie — or conceal some part of the truth — for the rest of my life,” but he did it anyway, hoping that first affair, “would be ENOUGH, that THEN we could move on and outlast it.”

UBT: I’m not a serial cheat — I have a disease. Other peoples’ diseases make them weak and splotchy. My disease makes me a Greek God surrounded by sexually aggressive women. (Okay Pandora! Hold back your minotaurs, I’ll fuck you again. Geez!)

The world is laid at my feet! (Or rather kneeling there at crotch-level.) I am a POWERFUL PRODUCER! #touchme

Despite understanding, on some level, that what he was doing was wrong, he never conceded the hypocrisy of being out in the world preaching feminist ideals, while at the same time, taking away my right to make choices for my life and my body based on the truth. He deceived me for 15 years, so he could have everything he wanted. I believed, everyone believed, that he was one of the good guys, committed to fighting for women’s rights, committed to our marriage, and to the women he worked with. But I now see how he used his relationship with me as a shield, both during and after our marriage, so no one would question his relationships with other women or scrutinize his writing as anything other than feminist.

I thought we were a couple, a team. I was a powerful influence on the career choices Joss made during the 20 years we were together (we lived together for four years before marrying). I kept him grounded, and helped him find the quickest way to the success he so deeply craved. I loved him. And in return, he lied to me. A lot. He said, after he left, he understood: “It’s not just like I killed you, but that I’d done it subtly, over years. That I’d been poisoning you. Chipping away at you.” He made me doubt my own instincts and watched me move further away from my personal values and social mores, trying to connect with him, never telling me it was impossible. By the time he finally confessed the truth, 15 years after his first affair on the set of “Buffy,” I was broken. My brain could not fit my experience of our life together, through the new lens of his deceit.

UBT: I was okay poisoning you for years. It’s the height of normal. It’s what conquerors do.

Editor’s Note: A spokesperson for Joss Whedon provided the following response, “While this account includes inaccuracies and misrepresentations which can be harmful to their family, Joss is not commenting, out of concern for his children and out of respect for his ex-wife.”

UBT: Serially cheating on my wife for 15 years is not harmful to my family. Talking about it is. #IgagyoubecauseIrespectyou

Hey, Kai Cole? Cheers from Chump Nation for taking hold of the narrative. We salute your MIGHTY. Thanks for your courage.

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unicornomore
unicornomore
6 years ago

So his response says that his XW’s misrepresentations could be harmful to his family…but he is taking the high road and not commenting because respect. Yea. And none of that monkey sex with synchophants was harmful to his family…it wasn’t what he did that was the problem, it’s how she reacted that causes a problem.

Asshole.

Little Mighty Me
Little Mighty Me
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

She’s got his own writings to her which provide proof of his cheating and philandering, so there isn’t much he can do, is there? I think it is very clever of her to make sure she based her own writing on his letters – a double-dog dare for him to have the balls to call her out. She could easily publish what he said, and he would look more the fool. Good for her.

Furthermore, I loved that she made sure to take some credit for his creative efforts. She put it right out there that she was a large part of his success – which is bound to be a serious narcissistic injury for the poor sausage. Subtle, but I bet it was effective at getting a big rise out of him 🙂 Good for her again. I bet it is eating at him that she would dare.

kb
kb
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

I read the whole bit about taking the high road about the “misrepresentations” as meaning that his ex-wife had the goods on him in every single way possible. He can’t do anything legal against her because it would blow up in his face and what shreds of reputation he has would completely disintegrate.

I’m glad that she spoke out. While I really loved Buffy, and generally like his projects, he’s still a no-good scumbag cheater.

Kellyp
Kellyp
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Seriously! It’s all her fault. Note he doesn’t bother to actually correct the record because more than likely it was worse than she knows.

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
6 years ago
Reply to  Kellyp

Ding!
Nailed it Kellyp

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  Kellyp

BINGO. And because he’s Joss Whedon, all he has to say is “nope, that’s inaccurate” and enough people will be okay with that side of the story. I think we tend to face the same thing with Switzerland friends and X-family. They use their notoriety and image management tools to soften that blow of consequences by either spinning the story or pleading the Fifth.

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  ChumpOnIt

(They, as in the cheaters — sorry, I jumped around)

bouncing back
bouncing back
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Typical playbook abuser response… The reaction is the problem not what I did!

Darkstar
Darkstar
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

Yes! When they find they can’t control us anymore the backstabbing less about us begin.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Darkstar

You just described my divorce.

Doctor's 1st Wife/3kids
Doctor's 1st Wife/3kids
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

Oh man, I am SO disappointed. Joss Whedon is a hero to my daughters! Seriously, Buffy was the first series all 3 of my kids loved watching. (So did turdbag husband, come to think of it.) My youngest MET him and got his autograph on a poster in her bedroom…shit.

Damn it. Where are the real heroes? I’m serious, we need some. Cynicism is getting overwhelming to me.

GGG
GGG
6 years ago

I am also crazy disappointed, though I started to suspect he was douchebaggier than I imagined when I read part of his Wonder Woman treatment. I didn’t realize, though, that he was A HUGE CHEATING ASSHOLE. I’m super disappointed in him. I wish I could hug Kai.

Ugh no...
Ugh no...
6 years ago

There are real heros out there, but usually they quietly pass through life with no fan fare. You probably don’t here about them because the satisfaction of doing the right thing is the thanks they need.
Good people just keep on keepin on, without stopping for the ego strokes and back pats imposters crave.

TorontoChump
TorontoChump
6 years ago
Reply to  Ugh no...

Faithful people tend not to be “cool,” or “sexy” to the average observer. Just think of how so many women swooned over cheater and (alleged) harasser, Bill clinton, and how he used his marriage to an accomplished woman ~ who sneered that she didn’t bake cookies ( yes, cuz that’s what we stay at home moms do all day) ~ to help cement his feminist cred. I’ll never forget the CNN interview with the then-head of NOW who explained that she didn’t have much of an issue with president Clinton but certainly hoped that Ms. Lewinski would apologize to Ms. Rodham Clinton… bc we can all forgive the most powerful man In the world but an intern he cheated with should be branded with the scarlet A. When Hugh Grant was caught cheating on his long term partner with an LA hooker, a woman waited outside his talk show appearance with a sign that read, ” I would have paid YOU, Hugh!”

Contrast this treatment with that received by President Reagan and Nancy… no one found him dreamy and Nancy still is written about with disdain for having gazed adoringly at her faithful husband. Until we start considering fidelity as a key trait for being considered cool, we will be surrounded by role models who are charming, witty, intelligent and unfaithful.

Syringa
Syringa
6 years ago
Reply to  TorontoChump

Let’s get with the times. Michelle swooned over her husband…NEVER a hint of anything inappropriate. Trump, not so much.

Ugh no...
Ugh no...
6 years ago
Reply to  Ugh no...

Hear not here. Grammar wreck…

Mom Of The Good Guys
Mom Of The Good Guys
6 years ago
Reply to  Ugh no...

Ugh No, that was beautifully said! The good people behind the scenes, taking care of their families and being kind to others and choosing to do the right thing, are the true heroes. I look at my stepdad. He puts my mom and our blended family first, and is always there for us, and for the literal dozens of grandchildren and great-grandchildren now in the mix. He can be a “grumpy old man” in his old age; we do not agree on politics, and he is set in his ways to a sometimes frustrating degree. But, he’s been this solidly amazing role model for my sons, and in him they see the kind of man they want to be.

JustBreathe
JustBreathe
6 years ago

Your stepdad sounds like my father. I only wish he was still here to show my sons the kind of man they should be. Hopefully I have enough of my daddy in me to show them the way. I’m hoping I’m at least showing them and my daughter and granddaughters what a strong woman looks like.

Kellia
Kellia
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

Well said Bouncingback!

unicornomore
unicornomore
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Kai, I hope that you found your way here and post under an alias. “Feminist Cheater” wow, its almost as bad as “Jesus Cheater”. My Cheater was a huge misogynist so there is no protecting yourself from cheaters just by finding someone who espouses any given belief.

Gato
Gato
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Mine was a feminist cheater. He would talk and talk about women on science, reproductive rights, etc. His mom was the victim of a misogynistic monster. So he UNDERSTOOD. He KNEW how hard it was to be a woman.

Yeah, right. Because the only thing that matters from us, is our vaginas. He didn’t taste enough of them in college before commiting to me, so now he is hunting to get as many as he can. And what was the important thing about the whore he used to make me leave him (so he could cry to his family, poor sad sausage, that I left him)? That she slept with the most successful guys in high school. It’s not that she was important: the number of uses of her ass was.

He is revolting.

hollowbunny
hollowbunny
6 years ago
Reply to  Gato

The m/cow was a feminist cheater too. But truth was she hated women and worshipped men. My dumbass cheater was passively on board with feminism – equality, wages, right to choose – but those were fantastic ideas to discuss AFTER his needs were satisfied, after his pursuit of happiness was attained. Mow used feminism as a shield to surround herself with female coworkers who she could then control and keep from passing her on the ladder.

As far as terrifying male feminists, Jian Gomeshi of CBC radio is at the top of the list.

TaraBelle
TaraBelle
6 years ago
Reply to  hollowbunny

HollowBunny – so true! Gomeshi came to my mind when reading the article. My Ex-fucktard couldn’t spell feminism ergo ‘my ex-fucktard’.

kiwichump
kiwichump
6 years ago
Reply to  hollowbunny

Mine was a feminist cheater too. When I met him he had a bevvy of female intellectual/ activist “friends”, whom I never met, and he suddenly fell out with all of them within a month of us starting dating, so I never had a chance to meet them. Or maybe he just made them all up, along with the feminism…Hhhmmmhh.
Same at the TCol course he dropped out of 2 months before the end. All female classmates and he was focused on the Canadian foreign students. I never met any of those either.

So Whedon thinks he was a Greek god, mine said he was descended from Samoan kings…

Which cheater apologist wants to run the argument that they cheat because they all suffer from low self-esteem today?

IUsedToUseMyHands
IUsedToUseMyHands
6 years ago
Reply to  kiwichump

Kiwichump when I looked at him phone, I found mine had sent himself a text that said “remember that you are God-like”… so not me!

bouncing back
bouncing back
6 years ago

He used being a feminist as his shield to be abusive, not his marriage.

She thought she married a man of integrity who believed in and upheld equity and equality.

He PRETENDED to be these things INTENTIONALLY to take advantage, upset the balance and distribution of power for his personal gain. Sick. Fuck.

May his ex wife fully heal and lead a full life.

StaryEye
StaryEye
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

This is pretty close to untangling the skein but I always imagined my stbx could put his feelings into different compartments. This is the life and home compartment and that is pretend single life compartment. He can go back and forth between compartments as he wants but doesn’t think or feel anything from another compartment. Does his crumbling family life effect his job? Probably not, he can shove it into a compartment and forget about it. It’s kind of creepy. I imagine he has feelings but they don’t do him any good if he can shut them down and put them some place else. You simply can’t trust people who don’t feel their feels. My stbx walked right past my crumpled self after DD1 and went to bed. He slept like a baby. Make me want to scream but I didn’t. I left him after that night. Was doing pretty well to figure out how bad things were until I ran into the “you can save your marriage” books. Hopium lead me astray and I tried to save our marriage. He didn’t try, of course.

NoMoreEvil
NoMoreEvil
6 years ago
Reply to  StaryEye

It is amazing how they can go right to sleep and sleep soundly even after horrendous, potentially marriage-ending fights and you can’t even think of sleeping as you anxiously pace the floor and are filled with anger. It just shows how little they actually care and that it doesn’t really affect them. Watching my XH sleep so easily made me fantasize about a sledehammer….

NoMoreEvil
NoMoreEvil
6 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreEvil

I meant say filled with anguish, but yeah, anger too!!!

Chumpy Chumpy Chump Chump (uk edition)
Chumpy Chumpy Chump Chump (uk edition)
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

I believe that when a cheater has sex with their [supposed] monogamous partner without revealing they are having an affair then it is rape. The law needs changing to reflect that.

Chuckles the cheat knew full well I would say no to sex if he revealed he was sleeping with Slaggy-Anne as on Dday #1, with fellow policewoman whore, I refused sex until we had both been checked for STD’s. If I am ever in a position to change law then I would. Any lawyers on here???

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago

Yes, yes, and yes. Consensual sex requires informed consent. If we can’t even administer a questionnaire to people without their informed consent, sleeping with your partner when you’ve slept with someone else (without telling them) means the partner did not have ‘informed’ consent.

Don’t have informed consent to sleep with someone = rape.

Rarity
Rarity
6 years ago

As a feminist, as a survivor of infidelity, and as someone who has always loved everything Whedon—Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dr. Horrible, Dollhouse, The Avengers—I find this devastating. Joss Whedon is dead to me.

On the plus side, it’s refreshing to see someone famous articulate so beautifully why infidelity is both un-feminist and abusive: “[H]e never conceded the hypocrisy of being out in the world preaching feminist ideals, while at the same time, taking away my right to make choices for my life and my body based on the truth.”

That’s right. Cheaters make unilateral decisions about their partner’s reproductive health. They take away their partner’s right to choose. Kudos to Kai Cole for being one of the only voices in Hollywood to preach the truth.

Had to roll my eyes that Whedon’s response was basically, “Not going to comment on this for the sake of my family.” How cliché. Cheaters never fail to express such loving concern for their families AFTER they’ve destroyed them.

The irony here is that, now that he’s a successful A-list director, he’ll be protected by the very same Hollywood patriarchy that he would have once decried. “You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”

https://www.thewrap.com/joss-whedon-feminist-hypocrite-infidelity-affairs-ex-wife-kai-cole-says/

Current Chump
Current Chump
6 years ago
Reply to  Rarity

As a feminist, as a survivor of infidelity, and as someone who has always loved everything Whedon—Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dr. Horrible, Dollhouse, The Avengers—I find this devastating. Joss Whedon is dead to me.

I second that emotion!

marriagedetective
marriagedetective
6 years ago
Reply to  Rarity

I loved everything Whedon too! This is absolutely awful!

Completely agree with everything else you said too. Kudos to Cole. What an awesomely strong example of courage and bravery.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Rarity

Love everything you said, Rarity.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Rarity

“taking away my right to make choices for my life and my body based on the truth”

That right there is what pisses me off more than anything else…the years of deception is worse than the cheating to me.

Dragonlady
Dragonlady
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

You know douchebagX said”you don’t understand I didn’t care, I didn’t care about anything not even my life, I was depressed” in response to why he never used protection while screwing around.
Well he should of damn well given me the choice because I did care the fucking scum bag.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Dragonlady

He was hurting you and blamed his uncontrollable depression. Classic it is not my fault. Just another spineless coward.

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

Same here!!!!! They don’t care how what they do affects others — our health, our hearts, our sanity. It’s maddening.

Rarity
Rarity
6 years ago
Reply to  Rarity

(Reposting what I wrote on FB cuz I gotta go to work.)

DunChumpin
DunChumpin
6 years ago
Reply to  Rarity

Fucking the grandfather coach of your kid’s sports team, good. Pulling your kid out of the sport when you find out, bad. Fuck these animals and their bullshit concern for family.
Family, btw, is scumbag speech for me.

UXworld
UXworld
6 years ago

But he WAS living a Greek myth — https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(mythology)

#unintendedtruth

Rarity
Rarity
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

I’m thinking he’s more like Zeus at this point.

Always did think Hera got a bum rap.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

Or was it a Greek tragedy?

Ali
Ali
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

haha nice one UXworld

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

There are a lot of horrible characters in Greek mythology. Either not thinking that one through, or making his sorta-not-quite-confession that much more eloquent to help cushion his fall as much as possible.

Beachgirl
Beachgirl
6 years ago

I saw this yesterday and was blown away, I’ve always been a Joss Whedon fan. Ugh. Just another delusional cheater. To expose him was an act of bravery and she did it with logic, class and insight! Welcome to the club Kia, you seem to have the mighty part down pat!!!!

Jodi Lynch
Jodi Lynch
6 years ago
Reply to  Beachgirl

I saw this yesterday too and was blown away. I thought, OMFG it’s everywhere!

Yep, his wife is definitely mighty but I wish she didn’t have to part of the club. Hell, I wish none of us did. We certainly didn’t choose to.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Jodi Lynch

Agree — my heart wrenched for her when I read this yesterday. My next thought was, she sounds like she’s seen CL and CN. Then again, it could simply be the hellish commonalities of what we all experience (though the journey itself is unique for each of us).

If she’s never been here, I hope she finds us.

sweetChumpgirl
sweetChumpgirl
6 years ago

Oh I feel her! Although my X was great at impression management at his job (hiring temps and sleeping with them after work). He actually told me “what was I suppose to do? I was watching a hockey game, drinking a beer by myself and these women approached me. One thing led to another and they touched my leg and I got hard”. If only I had a knife on me when he told me this then I would be locked up for 25 years to life. My dignity for myself and my kids kept me in that chair at that moment with no knife to find,thank God. How do you treat someone you loved like this after years of devotion? I’m still working on this fvckery myself. All I can say is, I’m so impressed she spoke the truth. He obviously didn’t have the balls to do that himself. I completely identify with her. It’s a huge wake up call. I have she can hold her head up high someday,we all do!!! I’m still looking for my Tuesday to come.

Roberta
Roberta
6 years ago

This is one of the reasons I would never marry again even if I were healthy enough to do so. These miscreants are so good at hiding their “true” selves. I don’t have the energy or the time to waste going through the broken windmills of their minds trying to detect if they are authentic or not! I hope his wife uses her time and energy on herself and her kids. I refuse to spackle anymore turds to make them look sparkly ever again!

KeepIt Moving
KeepIt Moving
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

I struggle with this. I feel like I am too young to entirely give up on finding a partner, but after experiencing my second narc in a 2 year period, it is so disheartening. I feel like I am basically catnip for Narcs. 🙁

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  KeepIt Moving

I hear that. I’m a good wife, but I am totally shitty at finding a good husband.

marriagedetective
marriagedetective
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

I do want to get married again, but this has me seriously rethinking that. This is absolutely frightening! Makes me want to crawl under a rock and never be heard from again! I loved Buffy and then got hooked on several other Whedon series. And the whole time, he was having sex with people on the set! AHHHHH! This is horror film stuff. Ugh.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

I agree, Roberta. I’m not just seeing it in the “romance” department, though. I swear, I am starting to see immoral and/or hypocritical jackasses everywhere — all hiding under a facade of “nice, kind people”:

Heaven forbid they rock the boat by standing up for what’s right.

I am looking forward to raising my girls and then becoming an old cat lady. 🙂

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  JesssMom

Amen to this, I analyse everybody these days and see narcissistic traits everywhere. I am sane enough to know that people can display narcissistic behavior without having a disorder and at times these behaviors are desirable but I just see them under a microscope now and don’t trust anyone.

Btw, I think we can safely say Hollywood is a Mecca for narcissists.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  JesssMom

I was always able to notice these traits in others and wouldn’t think much of them even if others loved them, and yet I did not pick up on it with STBX. Maybe a part of me knew, but I repressed those insights because he was my husband and I was devoted to him and bound to him so I spackled for me and for everybody else.

JustBreathe
JustBreathe
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

I’m right there with ya. Thirty eight years of being faithful to someone I loved with all my being and thought I knew so, so well. We would finish each other’s sentences, for crying out loud! I mean, how could I not have known? I definitely have trust issues now. I am so glad more and more women (and men) are calling bullshit on unacceptable behavior from the spouse/partner. It’s NOT ok to lie and cheat and the lame excuse that everyone does it, or it’s no big thing, or whatever reason their little mind can come up with, does not justify it. So thankful I found this site and all of you. I hope Kia finds this site, too.

Kathleen
Kathleen
6 years ago
Reply to  JustBreathe

JustBreath

Same here 35 years but he gave it all the up for white trash whore who knew he was married & went along with him in the lying, sneaking around

I handed him to the whore when I discovered affair & threw him out then divorced Narc. She better sleep with one eye open!

Don’t know where the anger came from when I threw him out? Kept telling me “I want to be single “. Thought that’s what he wanted.

He got what he wanted.. but lost what he needed.

Hugs ❤️

JustBreathe
JustBreathe
6 years ago
Reply to  Kathleen

Thank you, Kathleen. Hugs right back to you. If they want to act single, then they need to be single. Trust they suck.

bouncing back
bouncing back
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

You are right on point.

A good friend of mine is a psychiatrist and I was explaining to her how I felt so stupid for falling for the guy I was married to. I was beating myself up in a conversation with her that I wasn’t picking up on the warning signs and or listening to the red flags.

Her comment was these guys are professionals, and she’s been practicing for 25 years and even she sometimes has to be extra careful and miss signs.

So if the clinical psychiatrist still struggles with these kinds of people at times, it makes total sense it every day people like us could still fall for these professional manipulators.

Protecting yourself and refusing to enter another relationship is totally fine. The world is a balance of these fuckers and I can empathize with your lack of energy and desire to even weed through the population to find someone worthy of you.

KathleenK
KathleenK
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

We went to marriage counseling off and on for 14 years and I now see the same therapist. She has been helpful to me because she is appalled that she didn’t see it either. He is a covert narcissist who is a world class liar. Sometimes he would go in to see her alone and talk about how angry I was (by this time I knew there was something terribly wrong but could not figure it out)
She asked him if there was ANYTHING he wasn’t telling her – anything at all. He cried and said no while sadly shaking his head as the tears streamed down his face. He lies like breathing – he doesn’t even have to think about it. It’s nice to have a therapist who is outraged on my behalf and surprised she couldn’t see it. Makes me feel not quite so gullible. Tempest is so right – If someone intelligent wants to deceive you, they will.

ChumpedupChik
ChumpedupChik
6 years ago
Reply to  KathleenK

KathleenK. Omg my heart skipped a beat bc i could’ve written exactly that – he lied like it was natural or automatic – like breathing….. Sweet mother of pearl i hate all these cheating fuckers

Survivor
Survivor
6 years ago
Reply to  KathleenK

My initial therapist didn’t see it either, and she’d known the rat bastard for YEARS. When it finally dawned on her what I was dealing with, she apologized and made sure I got to an expert in relationship abuse. I imagine they give themselves bonus points for conning therapists.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Survivor

My STBX’s OW is a mental health counselor for marriages and families. I, too, think that is part of the appeal. He gets a sick thrill over conning other people. (I cringe over the thought of her counselling anyone)

Survivor
Survivor
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

In my case, the cheater was a clinical psychologist. I didn’t stand a chance until the jerk became overconfident and sloppy.

Ali
Ali
6 years ago
Reply to  Survivor

Wow, Survivor. Mine was a psychologist also. So strange that these people would enter a profession where truth telling is supposed to be highly valued!

Survivor
Survivor
6 years ago
Reply to  Ali

I think these disordered nutjobs seek out positions of trust so as to be better positioned to manipulate others. Plus, the training shows them how to hide. And they love status. Every reservation had to be under “Doctor” Fucktard.

Jojobee
Jojobee
6 years ago
Reply to  Survivor

HaHa YES. My cheater ex had to have every reservation for a flight, restaurant or even taxi under “Colonel.”

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

One of the most healing remarks from a friend after D-day, when I was lamenting being so stupid, was “If someone intelligent wants to deceive you, they will.”

The June 2017 National Geographic edition has as its lead article, “Why We Lie,” which I am currently reading. Turns out lying is ubiquitous, though not to the extent of cheater-levels.

NoMoreEvil
NoMoreEvil
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

My XH was only intelligent in his deception. That’s the only thing he used his skills for, never anything productive.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

The thing that gets me is how these people can be so intelligent and yet so stupid all at the same time.

Hopium4years
Hopium4years
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

bouncing back, thanks for posting about your psychiatrist friend who also finds it hard not to be fooled.

I still catch myself thinking “How could I have been so stupid?”

And my answer to myself is WORLD CLASS LIAR. These people are so good at lying. What a horrible thing to be an expert at. Yuck! But they are so good it’s scary.

Vastra
Vastra
6 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

Ditto Roberta – as a divorced friend says, if she couldn’t work out after 30 years together that her ex was a covert narc and a fraud, how could she ever trust herself again to not pick another?

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Vastra

Ditto…not sure I could ever trust someone else again or worse, trust myself to truly see behind the masks these people wear.

OutOfSparkles
OutOfSparkles
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

Me too – not even so much that I can’t trust there are decent men out there (I know there are) just don’t trust myself to spot the covert narcs – it took me 20 years, and it is so obvious now, but only because he chose to take the mask off once it didn’t serve him any longer with me once he had discarded me. What if I spent 20 years with another one? That really would kill me.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

On the same train here.

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  Vastra

Sadly, yes. “Once bitten, twice shy.”

Lyn
Lyn
6 years ago
Reply to  Vastra

That’s the way I feel too.

Allie P
Allie P
6 years ago

I never realized how pervasive the standard response to infidelity was until I saw my feminist writer friends, who worship whedon
‘s work, as I do, talking about this, saying she has no business airing their dirty laundry and if she knew he cheated on her she should have left so she deserved it and all of this. My God, one even said how is he controlling her body? It’s not like he coerced a pregnancy! Omg, they were really saying these things! I commented til my fingers were hoarse. Fifteen years of emotional abuse, of exposing her to God knows what, of making a fool of her (one friend said this was common knowledge in the LA private school scene) while forcing her to doubt her own mind and evidence such that she is now diagnosed with ptsd! And they can’t see it. If he’d stolen from her for fifteen years. If he’d beat her. No one would question her calling him a thief or an abuser. But because it was emotional and around Infidelity… It’s a “private matter” a d she’s tacky for telling the truth.

Keep fighting the good fight, chump lady. We’ve got to change this narrative.

pregnant chump
pregnant chump
6 years ago
Reply to  Allie P

Well mine did coerce a pregnancy but I do not see my situation as being any worse than those who didn’t. Mine is small fry in terms of what some have gone through on this site. I am still young but I stlll identify with those who said they are nervous about marrying again. I’m going to need more counselling before I even think about dating again.

Rarity
Rarity
6 years ago
Reply to  Allie P

Not surprised. “Progressives” are full of fake feminists. Just look at how they treated the Bill Clinton affairs/accusers. They’ll write stupid posts about hook-ups and vagina art but as soon as they’re called upon to take a stand for what they believe, they morph into patriarchy apologists.

Look at Hollywood. Always wagging their fingers at conservatives and filming stupid infomercials telling you who to vote for, but it’s one of the most sexist, racist, homophobic industries in the world. Male actors are paid far more than female actors, get more speaking lines, more male directors, wider age variance, etc.

(Disclaimer: yes, I am a right-of-center moderate, but will I call right-wing people on their bullshit? You betcha.)

AB-meh
AB-meh
6 years ago
Reply to  Rarity

I am left of center and I agree Rarity about the hypocrisy. What I’ve come to learn about feminism is that women are not a special interest group. We are a demographic; we are half the world. So one woman’s writing may not make sense to another. Doesn’t mean feminism is unworthy a cause because some find certain writing unpalatable. I’ve read essays where a woman said real feminists can’t get married because it is like selling out. Now to me and most people that is silly. But it is just one woman’s thought. So I avoid petty rules when it comes to feminism. The big picture is woman’s ability to use her talents and desires to make a life for herself free of scrutiny and limitations. To me, anyway.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  Allie P

This is why it always bothered the heck out of me that women liked Bill Clinton so much. He was a cheating fucktard! Why love him so much?

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago

**clap clap clap**

He is such a disgusting pig.

Ugh no...
Ugh no...
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Always with the godforsaken Ukelele. The next twee as fuck idiot destroying the credibility of this Tiny Tim instrument is going to jail for musical crimes against humanity

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
6 years ago
Reply to  Ugh no...

is he wearing a Fedora?

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Gee, because as a woman I want to have a MAN explain what feminism should be to me, and just accept his pronouncements hook, line, and sinker.

What a wanker; his brand of feminism consists in convincing women to have polyamorous relationships as an expression of freedom and sexual “equality.” Hey, Ukelele Guy, I get to have a choice about having one partner or many and your self-serving sexual politics are not convincing.

TKO
TKO
6 years ago
Reply to  Allie P

Well said Allie. This narrative must change. Cheating and it’s long term reality shifting, life stealing, rights trashing, soul crushing, meaning mocking evil is nothing short of abuse. It is traumatizing abuse of the most vile kind. Only the abuse of a child is worse IMO.

How some women (as you described your friends) can think of themselves as feminists while simultaneously defending a man who did nothing but use women, his wife included, can be baffling. But some so-called feminists really just define their brand of feminism as “the right to be every bit as trashy as the shittiest of men, not only without stigma or consequences, but with the same flippant sense of achievement in being so”. Joss Whedan and the women he used met that standard. His wife, by outing him, seemed to actually hold herself and him to something higher. To these “feminists” that standard not only misses the point, it is a threat. To them it’s about the freedom of women to indulge in being a shit, not freedom itself. It’s about equal license not equal rights. It’s about obtaining the same cultural options as men to suck without consequence, not the right to be recognized as equally capable of greatness or an aspirational standard in any field. There is a version of feminism focused almost solely on defining the bottom-of-the-barrel equally – and then there is true feminism which is focused on defining the top – the potential for greatness, strength, worth and brilliance – equally across genders. This is why Joss Whedan’s “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” character had an abortion (of a daughter?) instead of being written to become President. And it’s why some so-called feminists will forever defend him…to them he “gets” what the battle is about.

Alexandra
Alexandra
6 years ago
Reply to  TKO

I’ve noticed this shift of feminism too! Like somehow it’s about being as trashy as you can be because you now have the right to be. Ugh.

Little Mighty Me
Little Mighty Me
6 years ago
Reply to  TKO

I don’t like to get into debates about “real” feminism vs. “fake” feminism, because I generally think people have to make feminism their own in a way that works for them. There is a LOT of “well, if you were a ‘real’ feminist…” in feminist circles and writings, and it always annoys me.

So let me contradict myself real quick by saying, unequivocally, that a REAL feminist would never, ever, ever pursue a partnered man nor allow a partnered man to pursue her. It is, to me, one of the the ultimate anti-feminist moves.

It is broadcasting clearly that the woman in question believes that men are a valuable commodity – a resource which one needs to “compete” over, a commodity so precious it is okay to step on the neck of another woman to “get” him. It is saying that women can inflate their own value by association with a man, and doing so is SO important, it is okay to actively participate in or passively allow an innocent woman to be disrespected, devalued, robbed, abused and humiliated. It flies in the face of the very basic tenet of feminism itself, which is that women are just as valuable as anyone else, based on their own merits and NOT because of their association with a man or anyone else. When someone debases themselves in order TO associate with a man, and does so at the expense of another woman, it shows they don’t actually believe in the equal value of women…especially their own. How not feminist is that?

When Kai Cole says he can’t be a feminist because he robbed her of the ability to make the choices based on the truth of what she would do with her life and her body, she is 100% correct. He can’t be a feminist if he is willing to do that, and anyone who cheated with him can’t be a feminist, either. Sorry, dems da rules. Anyone who calls themselves a feminist and cheats – on either side of the equation – is utterly full of shit up to their eyebrows (and the rest of the headspace is toilet paper).

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago

Excellent point. Exactly right.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
6 years ago

Well said Little Mighty Me. Now can you post that on the article at the Washington Post. The entire comments section is filled with people saying cheating has nothing to do with feminism. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/22/hypocrite-preaching-feminist-ideals-director-joss-whedons-ex-wife-accuses-him-of-cheating/?utm_term=.793e7619ff79

bonkti
bonkti
6 years ago
Reply to  TKO

Very well said. Advocating for “justice” apart from a higher moral order exposes the self-interested.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  Allie P

Ahh, yes. On one hand we have the RIC telling us how we should fight harder to save our marriages and take responsibility for things going wrong. Then on the other hand, we are blamed for staying because we should have known.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

Yes. Damned if you do; damned if you don’t … in our marriages AND in society.

This is partly why it’s so important to find the strength within ourselves. We have to fight both the micro and macro narratives.

bouncing back
bouncing back
6 years ago
Reply to  Allie P

It would be helpful if the stupid no-fault states would revert back to fault states for infidelity.

Infidelity should be classified as a crime. Sure it may not be in the face like other crimes, however the end of the day it is lying, manipulation and distortion to get the job done. That is the problem, the behaviors, and that’s what needs to be punished.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

I am convinced that The reason for no fault is because so many legislators were/are cheating men.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
6 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower36

No fault divorce was a feminist initiative because women were unable to get a divorce from abusive men. Of course the men found ways to make such a divorce painful anyway by changing the laws so that you could *only* get no fault in many states. Two steps forward, one step back in many areas.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  Allie P

Yes.

For sure.

Vastra
Vastra
6 years ago

Yuk I had one of those fake feminists too! One of our early dates was to a Naomi Wolf talk. He also claimed he just preferred female friends (usually younger junior colleagues) … I later found out he tried to hit on them. The louder these people proclaim their own virtue, the murkier their morals really are.

Friend
Friend
6 years ago

Reading this is so therapeutic! Ty.

cashmere
cashmere
6 years ago

“Inaccuracies and misrepresentations.”

UBT: “You forgot the part about how everything is your fault, you made me terribly unhappy, and you are wholly responsible for every last thing, including the damage to the kids, the fact that they see through my sparkles now and are rightly disgusted, global warming, and the local cake shortage.”

They are literally all the same damned person. Despite having no morals at all, drives them batty when the chump clearly occupies the moral high ground.

Gah!

VulcanChump
VulcanChump
6 years ago

This took guts on Kai’s part. Well done.

Also, Joss, the point of the myths re: Zeus’s fucking around is that he is an asshole! Of course you would miss that little detail…

Kellia
Kellia
6 years ago

Oh no! Buffy the Vampire Slayer was my favorite show of all time!!! And now I read that Joss Whedon is a cheater. Ugh. He’s so unattractive with his pale white pasty skin and his lisp, I can’t believe he was a philanderer and on the set of Buffy. Talk about a guy who let fame get to his head. He’s not all that, and I’m glad his wife ousted him for the cheater that he is. She’s better off!!

kb
kb
6 years ago
Reply to  Kellia

We’ve had some big movers and shakers in politics and industry who’ve been cheaters. To gain celebrity status, CEO status, political status–there’s a touch of the narcissist there. It isn’t a surprise, but it sure is a disappointment. I’m not going to argue about their accomplishments in office or on the job, but I would certainly never hold them up as role models for our children.

In the case of Jess, it looks as if he owes at least some of his success to his Kai Cole, who seemed to have a better grasp of how to tweak and market his creative ideas than he did.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago

I’d love to out Mr. Twatwaffles in public, to all his friends and family.

I really don’t know why I haven’t, but I haven’t.

Maybe the arrival of Mr. T’s and ALPO’s bun in the oven, will do that for me. I heard a couple of days ago from my kids that she’s expecting.

KeepIt Moving
KeepIt Moving
6 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower36

I outed mine in a private Facebook forum that a few of us neighbors had created to share news and crime updates for our street. LOL! I also emailed his parents to let them know what he did and why they wouldn’t be seeing me any more.

My instincts were that he was going to pass off the OW as his new magical fairy princess and more her right in. I wanted everyone to know exactly who they were living next to. My instincts were correct. My moving van pulled away from the old house and 10 minutes later she pulled up in her car to take my place. They were married 5 months later. Gross…

mally
mally
6 years ago
Reply to  KeepIt Moving

My stbxh has been fucking around with both men and women for 14 years, over half our marriage. He advertised on sex sites as a rent boy and videos all his encounters as he is a total narc. He holds swingers parties in travelodges and screens them live on the internet for other fucktards to watch. He has a comprehensive stash off women’s undies, stiletto shoes, gimp gear and a range of dubious sex toys hidden in the garage. All this time I was married I had no idea nd thought id found my soul mate.
I’m.going to make a PowerPoint to send to his friends and family. It will be graphic (I discovered the sex tapes and took both stills and footage of some of them) and include his own vocal as I’ve been secretly recording our conversations for months. My fave part will be his voice played back stating that ‘when you deceive people it comes back to bite you’ to be voiced over a photo of him sucking off another guy in our lounge whilst I was at work and our kids were at school. I wish I could be there to see all the reactions! Especially stbx own reaction as ge still doesn’t know that I know about his secret double life.
Luckily 4 days ago my daughter and i moved out of family home and are now almost on no contact (final few bits to complete before full no contact can be achieved).
Hoping decree absolute acheived within next 4 weeks, just waiting for financial agreement to be cleared then one piece of paperwork.
His closest friends have no idea what he has been doing. And he himself still.has no idea what I’ve uncovered. I pushed the divorce through on grounds of his unreasonable behaviour, sociopathic tendencies, anger issues etc 10 days before uncovering his secret life.
I know that being a classic narc he is most likely gonna respond with 3 statements once he is confronted:
1. So what?
2. I’m.entitled.
3. Who else knows? – as damage limitation to his precious self image is more important than what this has done to our family.
This work is full of self entitled, arrogant fucktards. I’m steering clear from now on.

Sucker Punched by a Saffa
Sucker Punched by a Saffa
6 years ago
Reply to  mally

Mally,

I would buy front row tickets to that unveiling ! Lmao that he thought he could get away unscathed with such abusive,repulsive behavior

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  Sunflower36

Ugh, I’m sorry, Sunflower. They’re parasites, just remember that. Users and abusers. I feel bad for that child.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  ChumpOnIt

I do too. I have no ill feeling toward an innocent kid. Not their fault at all he/she has morons for parents.

Lyn
Lyn
6 years ago

Boy, this struck a chord:


“It’s not just like I killed you, but that I’d done it subtly, over years. That I’d been poisoning you. Chipping away at you.” He made me doubt my own instincts and watched me move further away from my personal values and social mores, trying to connect with him, never telling me it was impossible.”

And then the cheater playing the “I’m above all this pettiness” card in his response reminds me of my ex. Several people told me, “He never says anything bad about YOU,” when I’d try to tell them what he did. It was as if they were saying he was the better person for not admitting his affair.

For such a high profile wife to expose her cheating husband is taking a big risk. Hooray for Kai for speaking her truth.

KarenE
KarenE
6 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

The correct reply to ‘He never says anything bad about you’ is ‘because I didn’t do anything wrong!’.

Lyn
Lyn
6 years ago
Reply to  KarenE

Yes, that’s how I wanted to answer…

“I didn’t have a secret affair with a married coworker, plot to break up her marriage and ingratiate myself with her kids, see a lawyer and plan an exit strategy all while I was pretending to my wife that I was still a devoted spouse…”

or

When a burglar sneaks into your home in the dead of night, takes your valuables and sneaks away does he then go out and tell the world? Does the person who was robbed just keep quiet about being robbed to prove they’re a “good person?”

No, the robber stays quiet while the person who was robbed yells it to the roof tops!

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Yes, before no contact stbx kept bragging how we were just divorcing so well because he wasn’t bad mouthing me. I finally asked him what he could say that was so bad and he said well, I could lie.

bouncing back
bouncing back
6 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

I love how people misconstrue speaking facts with Bad mouthing. As Tracy says in her book “if it wasn’t bad to do, it isn’t bad to talk about “

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

That quote is fabulous- wish I had read it before I went no contact with narc mil. When I told her kids wondered why she never mentioned their dad leaving, she said “what do you want me to do, bad mouth their dad?”

Newgirl
Newgirl
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

@bouncingback. Mic drop!!

Stalked, name changed
Stalked, name changed
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

“If it wasn’t bad to do, it isn’t bad to talk about”

Yes! Absolutely!

Regarding moral and ethical choices, I was raised with the advice to make my decisions based on the front page of the next day’s newspaper – if you wouldn’t want the course of action that you chose to take to be printed on the front page of the newspaper for all the world to see, Don’t Do It!

KathleenK
KathleenK
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

My X is angry over what he calls my “hateful talk”. Which is his term for “The Truth”.
And that’s his subtle narrative for trying to hurt my reputation – she is just so angry and says such hateful things! And some people do believe it. But they always look at me a little quizzically – hmmmm she doesn’t LOOK angry. In fact she looks very happy and friendly. Hmmmm
Time is helping with this because last year I was extremely upset about what people were saying about me. Getting more of the truth out there (brief and ending on a positive note) has been instrumental in helping my reputation and making me feel empowered.
Speak the truth. The truth is good.

chumpintraining
chumpintraining
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

This, almost more than anything, drives me batshit crazy. I can’t tell you how many times cheaterssauras ex has gotten all over me for telling the truth to our (now my) close friends and certain members of his family. Not that he “cared” what they thought of him, but because it might get back to the kids and they were “too young do deal with that kind of information.” So yeah, the harm is not done because dad is a selfish asshole, the harm is done when the kids find out that dad is a selfish asshole…

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago

By their definition of harm, murdering someone is okay as long as no one finds the body!

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Yes! The “above all this” bullshit is infuriating. Cheater has been going to counseling, so he’s starting to use the lingo too to help with his calm-and-collected image. I’ve told him that of course he can be this way — it’s all looking up for him! Starting out again from scratch, telling or not telling people whatever he wants, smiling and charming his way into new friends and a new chicky-poo who, dollars to donuts, have no idea who he is. Rallying friends and family with some sob story of “addiction” or however he spins it. Meanwhile, I’m struggling to get out of the hole he dragged me down into and my flailing and frustration is being used against me. Trying to remain as NC/no reaction as possible, but it feels like the world is upside down. That anyone would buy anything he’s selling is beyond me.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  ChumpOnIt

We went through a marriage program and learned about opening a dialog by thanking the other person or recognizing something good. That it would help keep each of you from closing off and becoming defensive. I have found letters or emails where he did this. At the time, I opened myself up to trusting him more, but the reality is that he followed those statements with lies.

That is taking what they learn not to become better people but to manipulate you further. It is sick.

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

Oh that is horrible. I guess it’s “trust that they suck”. Part of what has been preventing me from forgiveness (or at least what he would consider forgiveness) is that it has nothing to do with actually being good to one another…only to use any kindness I would have toward him as fodder for his “see, I’m a great guy” persona for others and, yes, to continue manipulating and lying to me.

Sunflower36
Sunflower36
6 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

I know he’d like me to think he’s not bashing me, but I really have no idea. Can’t say I care much either. My friends and family know me. The rest can go pound sand.

Lulu
Lulu
6 years ago

I’m a huge sci-fi/fantasy fan, but I was never a Joss Whedon fan girl. He wrote great female character, but there were moments in interviews and comments he would make when the mask would slip.

For example, he called Nicole Kidman a “bimbo” because she commented, after the election, that people should accept the results and move on. Yes he loves and respects women SO much… Except the ones he disagrees with.

The men who really respect women and regard them as equals don’t need to shout it from the rooftops or craft personas around a feminist identity. Their actions speak for them.

Jojobee
Jojobee
6 years ago
Reply to  Lulu

^^^^This, every word of this!!!!!! He has made some very nasty comments about women in the real world for all his “fictional” support. And especially in the Kidman comment when a woman espouses something he doesn’t like the attack is ad-hominem and sexually based. And frankly I have never felt that all the Hollywood portrayals of supposedly “strong” female characters really are. Especially Whedon’s. This need to portray any “strong” woman as such because she can physically assault someone or have sex all over the place without feelings or consequences feels a lot more like feminism by lowest common denominator that TKO called out in comments above. If you don’t embody traditionally male characteristics (and the worst ones at that) then you are a “weak” female character. If you look at Whedon’s characters very closely this is something he regularly does. Buffy starts out a kind of “shallow” cheerleader (at least that’s what the audience is supposed to think of her–until it turns out she can supernaturally kill just about anything. Cordelia is written in a cardboard “mean girl” way until she gets in on the kicking everything’s ass game and when she basically becomes the mother of evil in Angel–then we are really supposed to love her. Even Willow, when she is smart, kind, and sweet (and devoted to a boy-friend and later boyfriends), we’re just supposed to pity her. Later when she is a powerful witch who dabbles in really dark magic then we get to admire her. Everyone of the “feminist” analyses of his characters ignores this trend. They see acquiring the worst of the traditionally male characteristics, (which are also used to define evil characters on the show), as being evidence of how great he’s writing the characters. They see these female characters as often empowered physically and sexually–coming into their own. I think what they really are evidence of is Whedon’s delusional adolescent fantasies about women who are just as ruthless, power wielding, and sexually indiscriminate as he is. It’s a seeking of womanhood not unlike the seeking of so many cheater’s affair partners–looking for a person as ruthless and sexually bankrupt as themselves. And look how rapidly he throws the women he cheated with under the bus and demonizes them for the very same characteristics he is lauded for writing into female charcters. Suddenly these women are “aggressive.” Hmmmm. Sounds like the old cheater standard “she pursued me!” Don’t even get me started on the Firefly female characters…

Lulu
Lulu
6 years ago
Reply to  Jojobee

You totally summarized everything that I dislike about Whedon’s characters and the “strong female character” trope in general. Did you happen to get a look at his leaked Wonder Woman script from 2006? He basically portrays her as an arrogant seductress; thank God that movie wasn’t made!

What I loved about the Wonder Woman film was that her defining characteristics are her compassion, innocence, and strong sense of justice… Her beauty and skill as a fighter was secondary.

Jojobee
Jojobee
6 years ago
Reply to  Lulu

I agree! Compassion, innocence, and a sense of justice (chump characteristics!), should be more accepted as signs of “strength” for both female and male characters.

mutterchump
mutterchump
6 years ago

Mine didn’t actually call himself a feminist, but he always invoked his mother and grandmother as his reason for loving “feisty” (I hate that word) and stubborn women. Since he works in science/engineering in a very male-dominated field, he was always talking about encouraging women in STEM. In the meantime, he screwed at least three coworkers (that I know of) and regularly used his job as a means to attract and pick up women. He was even kind enough to encourage some of his online sex partners from the bondage chat rooms to apply to NASA! (Because her writing skills in BDSM cybersex were apparently so impressive.) At the office, he was heavily engaged in outreach to millennials just starting out in his agency. He took on so very many mentees, all of them young women who were just starting out in the field, having special lunches, meetings, etc., to help advise them through their careers. Never one guy in the bunch. Now that I know he was a serial adulterer the whole time, it makes me sick to think about what he was really trying to do to those younger women.

And the most embarrassing part to me now is how proud I was of being married to such a liberal, feminist man who was pushing to make a difference for women in STEM. Barf.

Gato
Gato
6 years ago
Reply to  mutterchump

Ugh! Mine is the same shit, fake feminist in academia, with mostly female friends, always blabbering he understood how difficult it was. Now I wonder how many of the scientists he tried to help, he also tried to fuck.

bouncing back
bouncing back
6 years ago
Reply to  mutterchump

My ex-husband did the same thing. Always talked about how he promoted women at work and treated women equally. However at home he was a lying son of a bitch fucking prostitutes while traveling for work, treating me like crap and abandoning my son and I at home. He was leaving home early and staying extra days traveling just to see prostitutes. What an asshole

mutterchump
mutterchump
6 years ago
Reply to  bouncing back

Bouncing back, mine did the same thing with prostitutes and travel — leaving me behind with a newborn. Then he’d get back from travel, bitch about how much laundry he did and why was I too tired for sex, and head back out. It’s truly shitty.

SharylK
SharylK
6 years ago
Reply to  mutterchump

Mutterchump – I feel for you. Ugh. What a jerk.

Awake
Awake
6 years ago

A man feminist? Please….

marriagedetective
marriagedetective
6 years ago
Reply to  Awake

+1. Laughing out loud.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago

What struck me the most is that he sees and knows exactly what he did.

“As a guilty man I knew the only way to hide was to act as though I were righteous.”

“It’s not just like I killed you, but that I’d done it subtly, over years. That I’d been poisoning you. Chipping away at you.”

He isn’t delusional. He is a complete sociopath.

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

“Let me talk about this artistically/scientifically, as if it makes what I did sound better.” UGH

SharylK
SharylK
6 years ago

Thank you Chump Lady for this post. My STBX is also a feminist cheater. It messed with my mind forever. He said he respected women and has gobs of female feminist, activist friends. (Very few male friends – usually one at a time and they don’t last.) When I found porn, I told him he didn’t get to be a feminist and use porn in the way he was using it… these were young women, his oldest daughters’ age (What did he want for his own daughters?!?! Those girls were most likely abused and he was adding to their abuse!) I thought telling him that he was wrong and contradicting his own moral code was helpful. Ugh.

Then, a couple years later I found condoms and he admitted to Craig’s List – plus I am sure he had an affair with a subordinate. Some was emotional affairs, some sexual. He still has his harem of feminist friends. I haven’t taken control of the narrative because he has a public life (job) and I can’t figure out how I want to handle it with my kids who are 9 and 11 and they respect their dad. When we finally divorce, it will help. I filed on May 26. He is ignoring it, dragging his feet, doing more and more “good works” out there to firm up his do-gooding reputation. It seems he has taken his various “activities” way underground and is home a lot of the time now. Taking kids to soccer, making dinner, etc – what a guy. In marriage counseling (marriage counselor was a feminist), he charmed the counselor and, after slowly admitting to his affairs over months of sessions, subtly found a way to blameshift it all on to me. That’s when I quit marriage counseling and started getting my ducks in a row.

I am glad Kia had a lot of evidence and told her story. Feminist cheaters are super mindfucking because they appear to take the moral high ground and support women’s issues and rights. She has really helped a lot of people, including her children – and me.

SharylK
SharylK
6 years ago

And I have been married 15 years too.

Meg
Meg
6 years ago

I see Josh has had to shut down his fan site! I hope his ex-wife doesn’t suffer for telling her truth. Image management is so essential for cheaters.

Caitlin Burke
Caitlin Burke
6 years ago
Reply to  Meg

If you’re talking about Whedonesque, that was not his site, and he personally did not flip the switch. It was truly a fan site – fan founded, built, and written. A founder talked about the decision in comments on a post about it yesterday.

MehGloriousMeh
MehGloriousMeh
6 years ago

“My disease makes me a Greek God surrounded by sexually aggressive women. (Okay Pandora! Hold back your minotaurs, I’ll fuck you again. Geez!)”

omg Chump Lady, you make me laugh until I cry. I really needed it this morning. THANK YOU!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
6 years ago

Short of physical torture and murder, this is about as evil as it gets:
““It’s not just like I killed you, but that I’d done it subtly, over years. That I’d been poisoning you. Chipping away at you.”

So, you chumps who are wondering why your cheater did what he or she did, look and learn. Like rape, cheating is about power and control.

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Yes, that quote was both chilling, and telling.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

It took me forever to realize this — even once I knew about the cheating. Slowly, as the masked dropped, it became undeniable.

I would only add that it is power, control … and punishment. They need a patsy for their shit behavior. Thus, we become the punishable patsies in their twisted game.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
6 years ago

And by the way, this here, it’s Whedon’s Tiger Woods moment.

UnFlownKite
UnFlownKite
6 years ago

I was already suspicious when “feminists” fawned over him. Aren’t there enough female feminists to shower with praise before having to turn to a male.

Other Kat
Other Kat
6 years ago
Reply to  UnFlownKite

I also sensed a definite streak of the covert narcissist’s, “Aw shucks, I just do what I can, but thank you for the adulation anyway,” BS. I love, love, love how his ex used direct quotes from him, thereby forcing him to either accuse her of lying and prompting public release of what she has or resorting to his lame non-denial denial. Brilliant.

Mindy
Mindy
6 years ago

As usual, awesome response Chump Lady! Funny too. These fuckers don’t change. I am completely no contact and doing very well. It’s been a long process, but I finally said, “man, I am so much better than this shit.” It’s like one day the hurt and shock from being completely blindsided was replaced with disgust. Thanks for helping me get to that point CL & CN. I didn’t see that he always needed me much more than I needed him. I realized I don’t have anything to say to him anymore. My silence is powerful. I’m really proud of myself because I was the biggest chump of all. I thought I was going to die after d-day. Easily the worst experience of my life. I never want to go through anything like that again and they don’t change.

Keepin Calm
Keepin Calm
6 years ago
Reply to  Mindy

Mindy, I felt exactly the same as you. EXACTLY. And I feel like my hurt has been replaced with disgust, too. Oh, I have my moments (that are increasingly rare) where I cry, but now I look at this man and realize that he’s a douchebag ass, will never EVER change, and that I am healthier and happier with him gone. I don’t think about him nearly as much as I used to. And like you, I didn’t need him nearly as much as he needed me. I don’t need him AT ALL right now. I am so, so much better than I was a few months ago. Closer to “meh” all the time!

Mindy
Mindy
6 years ago
Reply to  Keepin Calm

I’m glad you had the same realizations. I don’t know if it was one thing I could put my finger on of how I went from trying to fix everything to saying “fuck it!” but I’m thankful it eventually happened. It’s like my emotions caught up with my logic. I thought he was a better person than he really was. I wanted the old person back not this complete asshole. When I finally saw him for what he was, a lying douchebag, I was done.

marriagedetective
marriagedetective
6 years ago
Reply to  Mindy

Man, oh man! Seems like we married the same person and came to the same realizations. I had that same moment too. Seemed I fixed everything, did everything, butcher, baker, candle stick maker. In our last 2 months of living together, I just let it all go to hell and focused on getting myself out. My divorce shed light on the fact that I was never married to a kind and thoughtful person. I allowed myself to see that the entire time we were together that he was a complete asshole and I’m ashamed that I even married him in the first place. I’m ashamed that I was ever associated with him!

Sitting Chump
Sitting Chump
6 years ago
Reply to  Mindy

I thought I was going to die too Mindy. I am just now getting to the point where I don’t cry every day (and it’s been over 4 years since DDay #1). The divorce is in process now (finally) and I am starting to feel better emotionally (even though things are going to be rough financially). Cheaters all suck.

marriagedetective
marriagedetective
6 years ago
Reply to  Sitting Chump

SC, I cried every day for a year after DDay. Then I cried less often but still regularly for 2 more years. Then I divorced and now I don’t cry much at all. A coworker told me that I wouldn’t believe how much better my life would be in a year. She had done the same song and dance when her husband cheated on her. Let me say, I can’t believe how much better my life is and I’m only 3 months out from separation and subsequent divorce. It does get better. Hang in there! We’re all rooting for you!

Mindy
Mindy
6 years ago
Reply to  Sitting Chump

Hang in there SC. I cried everyday for over a year. I was a complete mess and the devastation took over my life. Last night, as I was going to sleep, I told myself that I was going to be ok. I’m not at meh yet, but I’m not going to let a remorseless cheater abuse me anymore.

NWBiblio
NWBiblio
6 years ago

Oh, how the mighty have fallen. First I had to set Woody Allen films aside, now Joss Whedon? — Damn, when I realized cheating was everywhere, I had hoped it wasn’t EVERYWHERE everywhere.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
6 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

Phil Collins is a cheater too I learned last week. ????????????

marriagedetective
marriagedetective
6 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

Completely agree. I see Dr. Seuss books all over the place and get a sick feeling every single time. Ugh. I’m just so disgusted.

kiwichump
kiwichump
6 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

I thought of you NWB when I read this column, because you love Buffy!
Sorry!

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  NWBiblio

Agreed. I refuse to support these people financially (buying their products, etc.) — when I find out about them. The list is becoming so long …. 🙁

zyx321
zyx321
6 years ago

I admit that I was sad when I read this. I was not a superfan girl, but I admit to really loving Firefly and Dr. Horrible.
Kudos to Kai Cole for standing up for herself and cheater apologists everywhere.

my ex would have also considered himself a feminist. He also had “knight in white shining armor” syndrome. Women and girls coming to him for advice and mentoring (former professor), no adult male friends except two from high school, etc., etc.

Swede-Chump
Swede-Chump
6 years ago

I’m so angry. Men who are feminist allies often get accused of playing whites knights to get cookies (and/or laid), as if no man could want a world free from sexism. Every time a man turns out to be a false ally it feeds into that narrative.

There is a man in my extended family who is a politician. In his public life he is a feminist ally, and he fights against racism, ableism and classism. As a politician he has genuinely worked to increase equality. In private… not so much. When we were children he used his male privilege to bully his older sister. As an adult he is a serial cheater who makes racist, abelist jokes in private. Like Wheedon, he wants equality on a societal level, while thinking that he personally should have all the cake he wants.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Swede-Chump

I’ve seen this in several nonprofits I work for as well. The public/private persona (in the form of lying, inauthentic scumbags) is disturbingly prolific.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  JesssMom

*worked for (past tense!)

I’ve gotten out of the nonprofit world for this reason.

mutterchump
mutterchump
6 years ago
Reply to  Swede-Chump

Ugh. That sucks.

AuntieMame
AuntieMame
6 years ago

None of this is surprising. Anyone who knew what he did to one of the actresses on his show for daring to get pregnant and messing with his artistic integrity.

There have been times on his narrative when his mask slipped and I always found him unable to grow form criticism.

Kai, thank you for being strong and for telling you story.

I have another man on the nerd culture who I’m waiting to hear about next. I always hope I’m proven wrong.

Awake
Awake
6 years ago
Reply to  AuntieMame

Nerd culture….lol. Exactly whay it is. Nerds trying to find a way to get laid. Goes alomg with the over the top loving religious righteous guys.

nodancing
nodancing
6 years ago

I could have written that letter about my Ex, she is tremendously brave to out him, especially since I’m sure she knows that there will be blowback. I’m sure her letter will help many people though.

Let go
Let go
6 years ago

Bill Cosby
Mark Sanford
John Edwards
Etc
Etc
Etc
Public gas lighting.
It makes me think using a sperm bank, and completely skipping the nuptials might be the wave of the future.

Lyn
Lyn
6 years ago
Reply to  Let go

Bill Clinton too. I remember admiring him as a person who championed women, appointed some of the first women to high office…then the news about Monica Lewinsky broke…

Kettle
Kettle
6 years ago

This is why I don’t trust make feminists. The benevolent chauvinists are easier because they’re actually able to admit they were wrong about whatever sexist thing they’ve been blithely doing once they’ve stopped blustering defensively and had a chance to think about it. Male feminists can’t be corrected. They know it all, you see. I suspect Joss will come out with a Sad Boner Confessional in which he promises to do better, apologises to feminists for “letting them down”, and subtly blames fame, women and his own dick for his behavior. Perhaps he’ll discuss his various mental illnesses he suddenly has, just to really ramp up the pity.

TorontoChump
TorontoChump
6 years ago
Reply to  Kettle

I don’t believe he’ll apologize. In his twisted mind (and in the minds of many others, including many women’s: ugh)it’s possible to be both a good feminist and a serial cheater.

ChumpOnIt
ChumpOnIt
6 years ago
Reply to  Kettle

Nailed it, Kettle. All in the playbook.

Also, LOL on the “Sad Boner Confessional” — this is a great name for what my X did.

Cdclocks
Cdclocks
6 years ago

Noooooooo!!!! Joss Whedon? Is no one capable of standing firm on the pedestal of fidelity? I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. He IS a truly exceptional storyteller. …but I’m SO disappointed!!!!

NoMoreNarcs
NoMoreNarcs
6 years ago

Hats off to Kai for putting the truth out there. I’m just imagining all the other folks in her various spheres and how the gravity of JW’s massive deception altered their lives. ALL (and I mean all) the women in his sphere had to be pinging one red flag or another, but were repeatedly fed a false narrative about his virtue – and forced to deny their own realities.

“Yippee, I just got cast in Joss Whedon’s new movie/tv show! He’s a little intense with the eye contact, but hey! he’s one of the good ones – so whatever”

“Yippee, IJGCIJWNMTVS, but he seems really into , what is my role here on the set? Do I have to compete with ? Is he sleeping with her, Nah! He’s one of the good ones – so whatever”

“Yippee, my daughter is working on the set of Joss Whedon’s new movie/tv show. I know show business is tough on women, and my daughter seems really anxious about all the late hours. But hey, he’s an active feminist, I’m sure he works hard to provide a safe space for women. She can handle it”

The mind fucks just go on and on

Other Kat
Other Kat
6 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

Someone pointed out upthread how the feminist cheater mindfuck is pretty much the flip side of the Jesus cheater mindfuck. Claiming the mantle of moral/ideological/religious purity and the trust that generates, in order to gorge yourself on cake while all the time knowing that you’ll be the last one anyone would suspect.

NoMoreNarcs
NoMoreNarcs
6 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

Forget you can’t use certain punctuation. “He seems really into *insert Ingenue here*”

Lothos
Lothos
6 years ago

Did she ask him if Buffy was good in bed? (He is such a ass)

Rarity
Rarity
6 years ago
Reply to  Lothos

Seriously. Anyone else dying to know which Buffy actress got staked by him? Charisma Carpenter? SMG? Alyson Hannigan? Emma Caulfield? Eliza Dushku? Or was it some one-episode extra?

I'veBeenJillted
I'veBeenJillted
6 years ago
Reply to  Rarity

As a huge Buffy fan, I’m definitely curious as to which actress deserves scorn.

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
6 years ago

Please keep in mind that some of these actresses were teenagers–and relatively young ones, at that. If one of these young women was his “partner,” then the issue is much more complex–legally and morally. I hold a 25-year-old woman to a very different standard than I would a 17-year-old.

I have no idea who Whedon was cheating with, but scorning the woman may or may not be where we should go with this.

NoMoreNarcs
NoMoreNarcs
6 years ago

Ugh. And that whole “Honorable Sisterhood of Courtesans” story line in Firefly.

Pure projection of his inner fantasy rescue from the ‘prison’ of his double life.

“Poor me. If only I lived in a society with Noble Courtesans like in my awesome movie, Firefly, I wouldn’t be stuck in this rut of having to create insecurity in young females to get them to fuck me, I could just go and fill my needs with a victimless professional who -of course, also has to be young and super hot. It’s just not fair that the universe isn’t built this way. I wonder if my wife knows I think like this?”

Jojobee
Jojobee
6 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

Yep! Because how convenient if the women he uses for sex only are “victimless” and “Noble” instead of trafficked and drug addicted like the real world.

anonymous
anonymous
6 years ago

I read this article (https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/joss-whedon-wonder-woman-sexist-screenplay/) awhile back about how sexist his Wonder Woman script was (his proposed version of the film was scrapped thank goodness) – I could not be less surprised to learn this is how he treated women in his personal life. No shade to his wife for not knowing for so long – we’ve all been there – but this is a good lesson in red flags to look for moving forward. Men that hide their misogyny behind a mask of feminism are some of the most foul.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago

My hat is off to Kai. Her story is our story — but far more public than most.

This shit is so hard even in the non-public world. The damned “he’s such a good guy” narrative and everyone falling for his sad sausage routine is so difficult sometimes — for me — a person NOT in the public eye. I can only imagine how much hell this poor woman has been through … and will continue to go through because of the social narratives that give default justification to cheating and all that it entails.

Yet, Kai is showing the phenomenal strength and resilience that surviving this crap requires. I particularly loved her last sentence. “But no matter what happens, or how people interpret this statement, I no longer have to carry the burden of Joss’ long-term deceit and confessions. I am free.”

It makes so much sense from the Chump perspective … being lied to and gaslighted was nearly soul-destroying for us, so we don’t want to see the same thing happening to others.

And now, she is free. Fly, Kai, Fly!

st12
st12
6 years ago
Reply to  JesssMom

Kai is learning how to ‘gain a life’ – as we all are in Chump Nation.

We support you 150% Kai.

Gain that life girl.

Keepin Calm
Keepin Calm
6 years ago

I had a problem with Joss Whedon for a long time – some of his tweets were ridiculous. But when this news came out? I had an AHA! moment. Everything made sense. He is a narc and a horrible excuse for a human being. He’s absolute scum.

K
K
6 years ago

Can’t say I’m too surprised…Hollywood corrupts many people, even nerdy “feminist” directors. It’s a very narcissistic world. Well, definitely won’t be watching any Joss Whedon shows ever again. I have huge respect for Kai Cole outing him to the world though, so that he doesn’t do more damage. It’s sort of a service to womankind, reminds me of Christie Brinkley talking publicly about her ex-narc and cheater. I admire women who publicly challenge powerful, hypocritical men. In my opinion infidelity is a feminist issue in many respects because it’s an exercise of male privilege. Yes, I know women cheat too, and I think they operate out of patriarchal principles, that being more like men is somehow more ideal and powerful. To me these are all outgrowths of a patriarchy completely out of control. Patriarchy hurts both men and women because it’s a system based out of binaries (one person has the power, one submits). Sigh. Lets hope we all can help form a better world.

FedupChump
FedupChump
6 years ago
Reply to  K

I’m waiting for Chris Pratt to be seen with the woman he broke up his family over… He lives part time near my vacation home and I’ve seen him several times throughout the Summer… So far alone, but still…
His teeth are just too white. He can’t be trusted. Lol.
He seems like a nice guy, and I hope I’m wrong for the sake of his family… But we all know here, that when someone walks away from a family, there’s usually someone else waiting in the wings.

TorontoChump
TorontoChump
6 years ago
Reply to  FedupChump

Apparently, Anna Farris has developed some substance abuse issues. There was no cheating involved,

FedupChump
FedupChump
6 years ago
Reply to  TorontoChump

If that’s the case, then I hope she gets the help she needs.

Sebhai
Sebhai
6 years ago
Reply to  FedupChump

If it’s not.Then we shouldn’t be surprised.

DunChumpin
DunChumpin
6 years ago
Reply to  K

It’s not patriarchy. It’s that some people feel the need to control, demean and abuse others. It’s the assholiarchy. The world wouldn’t be any better if female assholes were in charge.

Sebhai
Sebhai
6 years ago
Reply to  DunChumpin

Wouldn’t be better but less worse.Trust me I am living in one female dominated culture.We don’t really deal with these types of problems that you have in America in spite of female assholes living here. I know which assholes I am dealing now.

nomar
nomar
6 years ago
Reply to  DunChumpin

Exactly. Patriarchy my a*s. Don’t think my ex wife cheated for most of our 22-year marriage because of the patriarchy, or because she was somehow mimicking the patriarchy. Hardly oppressed, she truly considered herself smarter and more deserving than all the men she screwed, including me. And in some ways, I guess she was. But mostly she was just an asshole, like millions of other women and men who cheat.

It’s not about politics or sociology or gender studies. Its much bigger than that. It’s about character. Period.

K
K
6 years ago
Reply to  nomar

I agree that cheaters can be male or female and that nothing excuses it. But I doubt a woman would get away with this or get the same opportunities that Joss Whedon did, nor be as untouchable. You don’t have to agree, it’s just my opinion, and I think it’s important to mention it. That young actress Kristen Stewart was caught cheating and was absolutely slaughtered in the press. Sexism does play a role in this and always has. Once again, not to excuse female cheaters, who I think are every bit as culpable, and I do sincerely apologize if my opinion invalidated anyone’s pain, def not my intention. I have every bit as much ire for them as I do male ones, but Hollywood is an incredibly sexist place. I live here, I work here, have been in and out of it for much of my career, and it’s a huge issue.

nomar
nomar
6 years ago
Reply to  K

Um, most of the Whedon fans making him “untouchable” are women. So are they a tool of the patriarchy? And last time I checked Kristen Stewart remains one of the highest paid actors in the world. Hardly the poster child for gender discrimination. No, cheating is about character.

Sebhai
Sebhai
6 years ago
Reply to  nomar

https://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/who-cares-if-joss-whedon-is-a-cheater/20244#.WcOv6XQRXqA

I quote
‘Just another bloke who cheated on his wife’

Written by a man.

Sebhai
Sebhai
6 years ago
Reply to  nomar

One of the highest paid actresses.But not higher than the highest paud actors.Speaking of Joss Whedon female fans.It maybe the women who are making him untouchable.But only because of his mask.Now that it fell.Trust me it will be the female fans who prepare the pitch and fork.But I’m guessing most of the male fans couldn’t care less.

Kettle
Kettle
6 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Women can be sexist too. See also alleged male feminist, serial cheater and attempted murderer Hugo Schwyzer. So many white feminists went to bat for him even when the truth began to trickle, then flood, out. Now he writes Sad Boner Confessionals on Medium about how he started sleeping with his students again (she was crying and he was mentally ill, feel sorry for him) and how he just *has* to date younger women because his 50 year old peers won’t give him a chance and morons call him brave.

Sebhai
Sebhai
6 years ago
Reply to  Kettle

Highest paid actors*

Jojobee
Jojobee
6 years ago
Reply to  DunChumpin

So true. Asshole is a uniquely equal opportunity career path.

TorontoChump
TorontoChump
6 years ago

Ugh. Check out other websites where this is being discussed. Kia is being eviscerated for making her “private business, public.” Mostly, it seems, by female commenters. This politically correct society we live in has made more acceptable to cheat on your wife, often and with people whose careers you can make or break, than to admit you’re not a feminist ( not that You have to approve of the latter, but surely one carries far more serious consequences and so should be met with greater social approbrium). Joss is untouchable in Hollywood, alas; no one there will blink an eye at this revelation. The only way he’ll feel any pushback is if we hit him where it hurts: in his wallet. Boycott!!!!

Onwards
Onwards
6 years ago

Mighty and classy post by Kai.
Mine too claimed to be a feminist and had flirty friendly exchanges with many female friends and colleagues except as I discovered some of the ways he was ‘keeping in touch’ were not consistent with being in a committed monogamous relationship and marriage as Chumpy me thought we were. Like one of those optical illusions once you see theough cheaters lies, gas lighting, entitlement. disrespect, lack of empathy and motives of cake eating designed to give them Power and control over a chump, it is a revelation. I am SO grateful to CL and CN for helping me understand this and cope with this crappy bombshell that exploded my one long term relationship. Tracy’s book lives on my bedside table and this site and the forum have and do help in tough times.

StigOfTheChump
StigOfTheChump
6 years ago

Thanks Chump Lady, as soon as I saw this elsewhere, I thought of you, and you did not disappoint. So many good discussion points made by other Chumps, nothing really to add, except I agree that some of Kai’s badass statements sound like she has been drinking at the well of ChumpLady already.

DunChumpin
DunChumpin
6 years ago

Bet the only inaccuracy is that the cheating started earlier. Dickhead.

LettingGo
LettingGo
6 years ago

Thank you for speaking out, Kai! This must have taken a lot of co