Holy False Equivalence, Bat Man

Hey, you make mistakes too! Did you forget to renew the car registration? I think that’s entirely on par with a seven-year affair. No one is perfect. We all brought issues. Moving on!

Sound familiar?

A false equivalence is when the comparison between things differs by many orders of magnitude.

Your Friday Challenge is to share the most mind-bending false equivalencies you heard from your cheater. Wednesday’s UBT had a doozy — comparing the chump’s spinal fracture (and down time) as equal to the FW’s escort habit.

It’s hard to top that, but we’re the largest assemblage of mindfuckery on the interwebz, so lay it on me CN.

And TGIF!

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Marie
Marie
9 months ago

Ex loved to say he had a right to feel threatened/jealous about the handful of men I dated over 20 years ago (and haven’t had contact with since) because I was insecure about his ex-wife, who he was married to for 15 years and he constantly used to triangulate me. (She had his kid, she knew his family a lot better since they were together since their late teens, etc.) Dating someone for two months and a 15-year marriage are not “the same thing,” you idiot!!!

Rebecca Holberry
Rebecca Holberry
9 months ago

He said I caused his 16 month affair because I was “really rather unpleasant” when he was teaching me to drive the year before.

NotFromVenus
NotFromVenus
9 months ago

Rebecca, same thing. I asked him why he did these, and he said I refused to go out late at night (after a big dinner and party in our house). This was 10 years ago. I thought it was ridiculous. I could not even remember what he was talking about, but he was not joking. I then asked if there was anything else that he was unhappy about, he said “ no, I can’t think of anything else.”

damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
damnitfeelsbadtobeachumpster
9 months ago

i hope you run him over. and then parallel park like a boss. #gah

Ginger_Superpowers
Ginger_Superpowers
9 months ago

Asshat couldn’t even think of something stupid so he sputtered out the catch all “this is about US”.

Nope. Pretty sure I didn’t have sex with HoWorker/Wife.

Cas
Cas
9 months ago

I love the this is about us. Sure, it isn’t about the fact that you had a backup and as soon as you stepped foot out the door (after months of an emotional affair) you decided to be with her. But it’s all about us. And how I didn’t meet his sexual needs.

Ginger_Superpowers
Ginger_Superpowers
9 months ago
Reply to  Cas

Didn’t realize you were also married to Asshat!

They really aren’t original. So tedious!

Ginger_Superpowers
Ginger_Superpowers
9 months ago

Wait–I just remembered (I’m so glad this shit isn’t occupying my brain 24/7).

“I never would have thought of HoWorker/Wife if you hadn’t suggested her”.

waffles
waffles
9 months ago

Screw that clown. 😡😡😡😡

LookingForwardsToTuesday
LookingForwardsToTuesday
9 months ago

There was that time that now Ex-Mrs LFTT (who, amongst other things, is an alcoholic) insisted to anyone who would listen that I clearly have a drink problem …. because I don’t drink as a matter of personal choice.

LFTT

I got a spam warning the first time I submitted this.

MightyWarrior
MightyWarrior
9 months ago

One of my (many) ‘problems’ was that I didn’t drink as much as the ex, a functioning alcoholic from a barely functioning alcoholic family. I was ‘puritanical’. My liver thanks me every day for divorcing the ex. I have a pink, healthy tongue now, not a grey, furry one!

Ginger_Superpowers
Ginger_Superpowers
9 months ago

Asshat must have used this one to his family and friends. I had access to his texts and that’s what he texted to his brother–I’m always “lit” every evening. Whatever.

What was funny was when I did pain shop right after the divorce, every Instagram photo was of them eating with a bottle of wine next to them.

They suck and it’s not all wonderful in Asshatland.

Alexandra
Alexandra
9 months ago

My husband pulled that one too.

I don’t drink. One summer, 12 years ago I had 6 coolers over a 3-day long weekend. So he told me I was an alcoholic because I drank “consecutive days.”

I drank one night (2 rum and coke) during the pandemic as well.

Other than that I haven’t touched anything since 2003 because my father is an alcoholic and I didn’t want to become one.

Yep, real alcoholic. So dangerous. From the guy who got completely blasted and had to go to treatment and relapse prevention for it and got placed in the exact same class as my Dad. If you are ever wondering if you repeated a family pattern, that’s the most uncomfortable way to find out.

Falling Forward
Falling Forward
9 months ago
Reply to  Alexandra

YES, major facepalm to realize I had married my <alcoholic, cheating> father!!!

Redkd
Redkd
9 months ago
Reply to  Alexandra

Mine also constantly called me an alcoholic….even when I stopped drinking for two years just so I didn’t have to hear it. From a FW who drank at least four beers a night on a light night…who frequently got so drunk he’d pass out, but if I had a couple of glasses of wine at dinner once in awhile, I was a boozer…

sleepyhead
sleepyhead
9 months ago
Reply to  Redkd

My first husband (not to be confused with my other FW whom I lived with but never married and mentioned in the previous thread) would drink 2 magnum bottles of wine a night (equal to 4 regular sized bottles), drunk dial god-knows-who for a couple of hours, and then pass out. He even broke his neck falling in the shower while drunk but even that didn’t stop him. But I was the filthy addict because I enjoy some of the devil’s lettuce now and then.

Janeiro
Janeiro
9 months ago
Reply to  sleepyhead

Shame he survived that fall 🙄

sleepyhead
sleepyhead
9 months ago
Reply to  Janeiro

I would never say that out loud because I don’t want to bring bad karma onto myself, but…yeah.

Doingme
Doingme
9 months ago

Decades after planning a vacation to south beach followed by a cruise he complained about my disinterest in attending the chocolate fountain event. Mind you he never ate candy or sweets. It was a complaint he used to gain empathy from OW over 15 years later.

Doingme
Doingme
9 months ago
Reply to  Doingme

Mind you when we arrived in Key west he insisted on walking to the southern most point rather than taking a cab when I had a stained ankle.

Typhoon
Typhoon
9 months ago

I wore the wrong shoes to a ‘meet and greet’ networking event for his alumni. We went shopping and he picked out the shoes I wore.

And, that’s why Mr. Duplicity was “forced” to fuck any and every kind of strange orifice he could find.

Rarity
Rarity
9 months ago

I pointed out that he had not been there for me, while I was pregnant with his child and struggling with pre-eclampsia, because of his antics chasing after ho-worker. And this was why I was asking for a divorce.

And he was like, “Well, what if I had left you when you’re mother was dying of cancer??”

I asked him to explain. He said, from 2007-2008, after my mother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, I was depressed and was barely having sex with him and was crying all the time and would barely get out of bed, so I wasn’t there for him. And how would I have felt if he had left me in the middle of that??

Because my mother’s terminal cancer diagnosis was somehow the same as his tragic case of wandering dick, apparently.

Kara
Kara
9 months ago
Reply to  Rarity

It’s…gross the number of men who take less frequent sex as an offense deserving of grief on the same level as your mom dying.

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
9 months ago
Reply to  Rarity

In an especially callous round of “Its Not What I Did, Its How You Responded To It”, after a moment where I explained to him how horribly cruel his behavior was (while courting Schmoopie and lying about it since already married with kids, minivan and dog) he said “If this is your reaction, you wouldn’t do well if one of our kids died”.

I think he was trying to say “worse things could happen, so this isnt a biggie” but what he did was so fucking horrible that our kids dying was the only thing he could come up with that was worse.

ChurningOceans
ChurningOceans
9 months ago
Reply to  Rarity

I’m sorry for your loss, Rarity 😢

Rarity
Rarity
9 months ago
Reply to  ChurningOceans

Thanks! It’s okay, it was a long time ago now.

I Count
I Count
9 months ago

I didn’t clean the house good enough so you know he needed to cheat. I am three years free, thankfully.

Cas
Cas
9 months ago
Reply to  I Count

Oh this hits home.

susie lee
susie lee
9 months ago
Reply to  I Count

Same here. It was all he could come up with. I did everything that was done, and kept it up plus worked full time, his volunteer work to gain his status, and most all of the child care. I worked many times into the night while he was either out riding around with the guys or snoring in his chair. Oh and in the summer I mowed the lawn and when the house needed painted (inside or out) I did it.

I actually didn’t mind the yard work or painting. I did do housework grudgenly though. After he left me for his adultery partner, my house work was so danged easy, I even started to enjoy it.

However down the line when I decided to remarry i told my now husband if he wanted a spit shine house keeper, he might as well keep looking, because I am not a maid. He said, we will hire someone to help because we both work.

And that is what we did.

KatiePig
KatiePig
9 months ago
Reply to  susie lee

Dude, yes! How easy the housework has become! It is unreal. My home is so much cleaner than it ever was and I used to damn near kill myself trying to maintain it. After getting rid of him and his hoarding and his filth, it is effortless. Blows my mind how different it is without him.

HereWeGoAgain
HereWeGoAgain
9 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Strange that you would mention hoarding, as mine was very much a hoarder too.

KatiePig
KatiePig
9 months ago
Reply to  HereWeGoAgain

I think it might be common just because it’s more likely to occur with disordered, unhealthy people. There are nice people who are hoarders but I think disordered assholes are probably even more likely to have issues like that.

But yeah, it was really bad. I had to put out absolute mountains of junk on three consecutive bulk trash days AFTER he moved out and “took his stuff.” It was unreal. Our apartment was so stuffed full of furniture. I remember fighting with him once because he wanted to buy another chair and I was like where the fuck would we put it?! We already had at least one too many chairs awkwardly stuffed into our small living room. I could never get the house really clean because I was constantly trying to arrange piles of crap.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
9 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

After my ex moved out and I was getting the marital home ready for sale (he’d been living there for a few years, and I was living with my mother), I had a junk company come and haul away TWO DUMPTRUCKS full of his stuff. He was definitely a hoarder.

Staroftheday626
Staroftheday626
9 months ago
Reply to  I Count

Same – I got this peach of a line all the time – “The fucking floors need to be done and sometimes I have seen grains of salt on the counter” If you don’t clean them I will have to…. (the “and you’ll live to regret it” part is silent of course. Every tiny task he thought would waste his time became my job, (ordering little things he wanted or needed, negotiating with anyone like contractors, guessing what time dinner needed to be on the table and hot, etc) and if he had to do any of it literally made him insane with rage and self entitled to do literally whatever. Houseplants looking a little underwatered will always force a great husband go jack off on Facebook Messenger with “a friend”. It’s documented in the scholarly paper “the FW theory of relativity”. I started to look forward to the silent treatment actually which is not a great way to live….. Hey OW, he’s all yours – no give backs!!!! Byeeee!

BeenThereandWasAChump
BeenThereandWasAChump
9 months ago

This is me! I started treating his silent treatment like a ‘party’ because it was a relief. He didn’t like that AT ALL.

Stig
Stig
9 months ago

Oh this reminds me, FW used to never lift a finger around the house day to day without being asked, and then he acted like I was asking him to murder a panda, but every now and then he look around in distaste, especially if we were having visitors and would do random jobs like dust the window sills, or if I pissed him off with a pithy retort about some lame accusation, he’d do something like dust the leaves on a big lily I had. If that’s my worst fault, a dusty house plant, I’ll take it.

HereWeGoAgain
HereWeGoAgain
9 months ago
Reply to  Stig

From the moment I knew that FW was having an affair, and also secretly visiting his Schmoopie’s house when her husband wasn’t there, I completely stopped cleaning our house so it deliberately looked like a pigsty – as I knew he would never invite her over to shag in our home if it looked like shit.
When my first husband’s schmoopie (who I believed at the time was a family friend), visited our house with her husband and kids, she proudly told me how she would renovate our home. I didn’t realise they were having an affair at that time, but LIVE AND LEARN I say!

Whiteybird the Rooster
Whiteybird the Rooster
8 months ago
Reply to  HereWeGoAgain

Wow you’ve given me a sudden clarity and insight of my own situation. Thank you!

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
9 months ago
Reply to  HereWeGoAgain

That wouldn’t have worked with my ex’s schmoopie. She was apparently over all the time, during covid and after, once I’d moved out. When I went to the house (I hadn’t been there in over a year) to show the realtor around, it looked like a complete pigsty – toilet black inside and growing things, rotting food in the fridge and on the counter, mouldy dishes in the sink, bathroom walls covered in mildew, tub so full of soap scum you couldn’t see the grout between the tiles, dust all over everything, trash everywhere (there were at least 5 empty laundry detergent bottles in the laundry room, things like that), the yard completely overgrown, etc. I don’t know how she spent any time there. I wouldn’t have used that bathroom if you’d paid me. It took almost 50 hours of hard work for me to get that place to a point where I could put it on the market.

But one of the reasons he cited for his cheating/leaving me was the fact that I was a lousy housekeeper. Go figure.

Informal
Informal
9 months ago
Reply to  HereWeGoAgain

When the ex stated his only connection to our house was his clothes in the closet while the kids were within listening distance, They became his problem. I never picked up, washed, or folded his belongings again.
That was one grenade he launched that I could take action against. I slowly did the buzz phrase, “quiet quitting.”
He quit years before that

Stig
Stig
9 months ago
Reply to  Stig

And although I never got him to admit it, I think the resentment that lead to his cheating was seeded because he couldn’t go on an overseas holiday event connected with his hobby group because we were having a baby. A lot of our couple time and family funds went toward his interests, with no blowback from me because I believe it’s important to have passions to pursue, but unfortunately schmoopie ended up being someone connected with that interest and she very happily added grist to that mill from the emails I saw later between them. How selfish of me to not time the birth of our child around his calendar.

Stig
Stig
9 months ago
Reply to  Stig

In light of my comment below – How dare I have a child at an inconvenient time for him?

Working On My Picker
Working On My Picker
9 months ago

I’m so sorry that you had to deal with that but in a way I am grateful to read it. I have a young friend (married only 1 year) whose FW is a textbook narcissist and very verbally abusive. I’m so worried for her (emotionally and physically) so I keep urging her to read this blog. She says there is no reason to as he is not cheating… but there is so much great information on here about abuse and narcissism. I am going to tell her that people on here talk about being yelled at for not cleaning well enough (as she is going through that on the regular) and try again to coax her to read this. Thanks, CL & CN.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
9 months ago

Suggest to her the book “Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft. It was eye opening, to say the least, and is available as a free PDF online.

Kara
Kara
9 months ago

Tell her my mother used to yell at me and my sister at the top of her lungs to clean our rooms, the bathrooms, etc. and it was never good enough for her. We never did it right, there was nothing that satisfied her.

She’s a hoarder in a junk filled house now.

Doesn’t have to be a cheating relationship for it to be abuse.

Lemniscus
Lemniscus
9 months ago

She might find outofthefog.website helpful too

Emma C
Emma C
9 months ago

The Verbally Abusive Relationship By Patricia Evans is an excellent small book for understanding just how awful verbal abuse is.

Helen Reddy
Helen Reddy
9 months ago
Reply to  Emma C

I have just ordered this book. I concur with all who note this site is a resource to educate ourselves on the consistent FW bag of tricks, whether we got here by being cheated on or some other way. (For frame of reference, imagine being the sibling of a major FW, whose mindf**k and attitude of entitlement poisons adjacent relationships too. And, of course, it all traces to a family of origin that fostered wrong belief that verbal abuse was to be overlooked for harmony’s sake).

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
9 months ago
Reply to  I Count

Same. I did not vacuum often enough.

Hilariously, after I moved out, the house turned into something that looked like squatters lived there.

FlutePheonix
FlutePheonix
9 months ago
Reply to  I Count

Same. Even while I was working full time and dealing with postpartum depression. And he was working part time, chasing his photography dreams. Trust that they suck.

Doingme
Doingme
9 months ago

Adding insult to injury I planned a horrible birthday vacation in Georgetown. Repeatedly I told him to bring a suit jacket and tie for a reservation I’d made at the Cintronelle. Nope, it was too much to ask. And the rooftop pool? He heard too many horns. Next up, Kennedy center. He refused to take a cab. Instead we crossed a dangerous highway. Museums and the cathedral were criticized. You call this a vacation? I’m sure it drove him to cheat; he complained about it to everyone.

The one and only time he planned or paid for a vacation was weeks after DDay. Good luck with that.

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
9 months ago
Reply to  Doingme

How dare you plan a vacation? 🤪
Same here. I planned ( and put on my credit card) a 25th anniversary trip to Mexico, with a stop in LA first to see Donald Fagan, one of his favorite musicians. He complained up to the day we left- why do I want to go to Mexico? Oh, such a hassle to pack and get ready!
It was a beautiful vacation, but I guess I’m still wondering why I always had to plan everything? I suppose a card with his name signed was enough for 25 years with FW.

KatiePig
KatiePig
9 months ago
Reply to  FreeWoman

That’s so relatable. I remember our last vacation with friends was just a month before he dumped me. I asked him to look at two cabins to help me decide which one to rent and he got pissed. That was asking too much of him. After the divorce, a “friend” told me that he had been planning a wonderful vacation for me on our next anniversary and that’s how she knew he really loved me. I was skeptical since he wouldn’t plan anything and would scream at me for asking for him to participate as little as just having an opinion about the cabins, but he planned a whole vacation? Right. So I asked her where this wonderful vacation was supposed to be. She gasped and said she couldn’t tell me that, it was none of my business!

Right… That’s when I started to think she was fucking him too.

Stig
Stig
9 months ago
Reply to  FreeWoman

How dare you plan a vacation? 🤪 I love this, and ‘How dare you!?’ needs to be the name of this Friday challenge.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
9 months ago

All pain was always a competition.

Your brother just died a horrible cancer death? I’m even more sad. I miss him too, PLUS I have been home alone all the time for weeks missing you.

You just had emergency abdominal surgery? It’s harder for me, I have to do all the housework and shopping while you recover.

A grownup sexually assaulted you when you were a child? I know just what that’s like. A grownup called me a really mean and gross name when I was a child, but it was worse because it wasn’t just one time, it went on for years.

You were scared and sad while we were apart after D Day 1? It was double for me because I had to deal with how bad I already felt, plus face how hurt and angry you were on top of all my own feelings.

Etc., ad infinitum. Gold medalist in the pain olympics. Charm, rage, self pity.

KatiePig
KatiePig
9 months ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Mine had “sympathy pains” throughout my pregnancy and at the time I thought it was sweet. Now I look back and I shudder thinking about it. I thought it was empathy, turns out it was the exact opposite of empathy.

Brit
Brit
9 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Mine too! every pain I had, he had too, but worse. It was comical.

UXworld
UXworld
9 months ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

In the Dilbert comic strip, this person is known as “Topper.”

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
9 months ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

YES.

BTAW
BTAW
9 months ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

OMG!! Yes with how things are always harder for them!
*me: just had part of cervix cut off from his gift of hpv-now precancer
FW: this is so hard on me seeing the consequences of my actions, (I’m not recovering well and he’s angry that I won’t stop bleeding and he has to drive kids around now WTF!)
*me: just don’t think I will ever trust you again after the hookers and happy endings.
-FW: I know. I can’t trust you either. All those times you said we were going to try.

Katie
Katie
9 months ago

Mine said one of the reasons he cheated was because I’d seemed depressed. Well I’m sorry, I’d just had a miscarriage that resulted in me having to have a D&C. But yeah, all my fault for being a sad and hormonal wreck! How could I!?

LifeIsGood
LifeIsGood
9 months ago
Reply to  Katie

I’m sorry that you had to go through that, Katie.

My story is very similar. I was recovering from my 3rd miscarriage and the news that I could not maintain a pregnancy so my dream of being a mom was gone. During that time of sadness & grief, I was too needy and wasn’t paying enough attention to him, so he just HAD to have an affair.

On top of that, he wasn’t even upset about the miscarriage because “it’s different for guys, there was a baby and now there isn’t. We will just make another one.” Ugh. I should have run away right then, when his true character peeked out for a moment.

Katie
Katie
9 months ago
Reply to  LifeIsGood

I’m sorry for your losses Life Is Good. They are disordered and don’t have normal feelings the rest of us do. Only silver lining to my miscarriage is that I’m not tied to him for life by having to co-parent with him.

StraightOuttaChumpton
StraightOuttaChumpton
9 months ago
Reply to  Katie

My FW’s complaint was that I didn’t need him.

Guess he proved me right.

BTAW
BTAW
9 months ago
Reply to  Katie

Yup. They’re awful. I got that too. Pregnant every 2 years, deployments, sick kiddos, me being sick, no nearby support since we moved around, him being checked out. Poor FW just felt like I didn’t want to be there, yet he’s the one that left and replaced me. He literally left yet felt that I did. Those aren’t equal.

Spoonriver
Spoonriver
9 months ago

Oh let me count the ways…partial list I didn’t wear pink, I had unstructured hair (curly and was complimented by others all the time), I wore clothes that I and other people like but he didn’t, I stayed in shape for myself not him, I went to bed at 10 PM instead of staying up late with him on work nights……………………..But that’s ok cause he’s praying for me. Twat!

ChumpNeedsSunlight
ChumpNeedsSunlight
9 months ago

Ex told me he cheated on me because I don’t like sushi and I care about the environment (and he found it stressful to try to buy environmentally responsible things).

I didn’t even know what to say at the time. WTF!?!

Informal
Informal
9 months ago

The kids slept in our bed.
From the time I had the first kid, I became a married single mother. I definitely made it easier myself by bringing them into my bed. They weren’t tucked in with me. It was a nightly migration. I got them to stay in their own beds in a shared room at the ages of 2 and 5 because he angrily said when he comes home he had better not find a kid there.my exhaustion didn’t matter. He should have said when I choose to come home. He continued to come in whenever, music blaring, not caring he would awaken us, scavenge in the kitchen and crash on the couch.
Note I lived with my mom for a year and a half of those five years undergoing cancer treatments because I instinctively knew he would be useless because I was already a single parent. I had a new born and 3 yo.
I would still let them climb in the bed if they didn’t feel well. I refused one night and gave the reason. They said what does it matter, if he comes home he sleeps on the couch? Ding ding. They were right. My brain was pure mush at this point from the chemo, trying to recover and alone. He was being a controlling asshole.
The excuse of the kids slept in our bed was given when they were 15 and 18. I learned he had been having affairs since I was pregnant with the first. 33 yrs of abuse and life is awesome after divorcing his disordered self with all his erratic behaviors and drama.
He’s kept me in court throughout the years and I know through his actions he has hated me probably for the majority of our relationship and marriage but it still doesn’t stop him from circling back. A recent blocked voicemail of his snot crying self saying he knows how much I hate him but please begging for me to call him. Only saved to use as harassment if he takes me back to court. I’m considering changing my number.

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
9 months ago

I was told that I deserved his being involved with Susan of Seattle because I was “defiant” in fact, I “defied him at every turn” which was odd because I was (for a long time) a very compliant wife. (We lived in the city he chose in the house he chose, drove the cars he chose and went to the church he chose.)

I asked him for a single example of my defiance and he said “you use bleach in the laundry when I expressly forbid it”

Yes, we had 3 school aged kids with expected levels of poop-smear underwear and muddy socks and I DID, in fact, add bleach to the wash water when I did white laundry.

We did enter a wreckonsillyation, but trust me, my days of true compliance were done. No I wont move, no I wont combine paychecks (my money went into an escape fund), no I wont agree to that major purchase….

Helen Reddy
Helen Reddy
9 months ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

LOL! One of my exes (a classic disordered personality, from right before I got the tools to spot such slime a mile away) said his major red flag about me was, “You don’t like to be pushed.” Snort!

DrChump
DrChump
9 months ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

How else do you get your kids skid marks out???😆
Interesting that FW was always doing laundry seemed like a lot for 3 people. ( yes she did the laundry when we moved to a house and did all the cooking. I took care of the yard, pool, automotive and fixed everything)
Would not let me handle anything. A week after Dday the writing was on the wall. She went shark eyes and I knew she was gone. I started doing my laundry. I had to pull her clothes out of drier and saw it was full of sexy panties I had never seen before. They weren’t new either. That is when I “snooped” and found draws of lace and crotchless panties, dildos, nipple clamps, butt plugs. I could not believe what I saw and how the Eucharistic minister had hid all this from me. Also found separate bank account.

” That’s why I am leaving because you went through my things”

Hmmm by the evidence and my lawyers it had been going for 6 years with multiple men before I went through your things

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
9 months ago
Reply to  DrChump

This is THE CLASSIC FALSE EQUIVALENCY OF CHUMPDOM…It wasn’t that she lied, cheated, stole and endangered you and your kids, its that you looked for proof that something was up and looked in her stuff/phone. My mistake was not seeing the false equivalency stupidity as what it was …literal proof that there was nothing to work with. (But I smoked Hopium after that, still)

Stig
Stig
9 months ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

How dare you! This is ‘Carrie’s mom’ levels of crazymaking.

marissachump
marissachump
9 months ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

As someone who is VERY chemical sensitive to bleach and would not be okay with it either, FUCK HIM (not literally). If he is indeed chemical sensitive like me, you talk about it in a reasonable way and work together to find suitable alternatives. You don’t FORBID things with your spouse. He just sounds like an abuser looking for an excuse.

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
9 months ago
Reply to  marissachump

If he were sensitive to substances and I used them anyway to torment him, that would be bad on my part. He had no such sensitivity…he just had a general preference but ruled with an iron hand.

Working On My Picker
Working On My Picker
9 months ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

He “expressly forbade” you? You’re a hero if you didn’t immediately go pour bleach onto everything he owned….

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
9 months ago

Like I said, I was very compliant for a long time and he got used to having a lot of power. There was a time when his forbidding would have altered my actions but once I realized that he was using the power I had respectfully given him (trusting that he would keep my best interests in mind) to manipulate me. I changed right in front of him and he hated that.

There was a time in wreckonsillyation where he was trying to start a business …I had saved like $20,000 for the kids college and it was decided we would take out school loans and give him the $20,000. (yea, bad idea). I walked in on him and his dude business partner scheming about some business idea and asked a really, general question. I was told to shit up and leave them alone. They were scheming with my money and insulting me. I went into online banking and took my money back. He went ballistic…we ended upstairs in our big closet with him ranting and demanding but by them I was wise to his manipulations and I took a “Oh yea, so what will you do about it?” response.

Back to laundry…once I accidentally washed a new towel with something of his and got lint all over his item and he went nuts. He forbade me from touching his clothes in any way. OK. Which let him washing his own stuff for a number of years until he backpedaled on that one

Curlychump
Curlychump
9 months ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

The horror! You bleached your whites! I’ve never heard of such scandal!

Stephen
Stephen
9 months ago

Boy, given what’s going on in the United States right now I wished I had something to offer here. We are in the golden age of false equivalencies on so many levels for so many reasons. My ex simply ran away on a drug bender with her boyfriend and literally refused to tell anyone – including her own children and family – where she was for 5 days. I found her using the find my phone app and we all figured it out on our own. Maybe her false equivalency was her telling me she just needed someone to talk to who understood her #druguse.

UnLeashed
UnLeashed
9 months ago
Reply to  Stephen

In the SW US. My D-Day was something similar than this. I’m sorry Stephen.
I understand the pain of a betrayal of his own young babies and I for a drug induced bender where he convinced himself and everyone else in the house he had a job (we lived with his family). He had a rich girlfriend that would give him tranquilizing forget-me-nots, I think they call them. I knew he had a problem with this stuff in the past but finding out he cheated was hard. His mom knew and told me after I found out. I never impressed her either. He also introduced my oldest to the AP as well. This went on during pandemic as well. I felt unsafe in so many ways. I wish I found this site sooner but hopefully you enjoy reading here as much as me.

Principled Life
Principled Life
9 months ago

His having a deceptive, secret sexual life was the same as me leaving a room without turning out the light. Because both are disrespect.

MaisyL
MaisyL
9 months ago

I was 39 so, obviously, he had to cheat. I mean, he was too good to be with a 40 year old woman, right?

NoMoreTwatWaffles
NoMoreTwatWaffles
9 months ago
Reply to  MaisyL

my ExFW always joked: when she is 40 I will trade her in for 2 20-year olds. I always thought of it as a lame joke but there was more truth to it than I could ever imagine. He apparently had a threesome with 2 young hookers – he confessed to this on DDay so I think this was something he was especially proud of (since I only got little slivers of confessions and this he voluntarily shared with me).
He was 3 years older than me and was very sensitive about his age. He always bragged that people thought he was younger and was struggling with the fact that his hairline was rapidly receding.

KatiePig
KatiePig
9 months ago
Reply to  MaisyL

Mine talked about this too. I was 38 and it was just disgusting and I needed to accept that men don’t want women my age. He told me that I was an embarrassment to be seen with because everyone thought I was his mother. He was too good to be stuck with an older woman like me as people still thought he was a “little boy in high school.”

I am six months older than him. That’s it. I think back on the people he worked with who would meet me and gush how fantastic I look and ask me what my secret was and I always thought it was super weird. I’m pretty sure he was telling everyone I was older than him our entire marriage so they probably thought I was at least a decade older than I was. LOL

loch
loch
9 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

He wanted teens. Or worse.

KatiePig
KatiePig
9 months ago
Reply to  loch

Yes, that’s it exactly. He was just arrested for attempting to meet an 11 year old for sex. He’s a literal pedophile.

Conchobara
Conchobara
9 months ago
Reply to  MaisyL

Mine wasn’t that explicit but he started having “performance” problems in our early 30s and apparently started cheating when I turned 40 so…

Gonegirl
Gonegirl
9 months ago
Reply to  MaisyL

OMG really? He didn’t like it because he knew you were onto him.

Elsie
Elsie
9 months ago

There were too many to relate here, really small things that justified him taking off to the beach to live like a single man. Sometime later, when I pointed out that wasn’t the action of someone who cared about their marriage, he said that his family was responsible. It was just one big fat blameshift in a recently retired man. It wasn’t like he was an impulsive teenager who didn’t know any better.

I was slow to figure it out but finally got that his big actions spoke louder than words. There was no path forward with him. When he called to say that he wanted a divorce, he asked me why I wouldn’t reconcile as if I had never told him (I had). His response was, “I botched up.”

He had picked a high-end attorney who was known for skirting the edge of the law and brutal tactics, so I was careful to pick a good match. We got it done. Then he blamed the “crooked attorneys” during closeout. No, mine was not crooked. He was very fair and efficient in his billing and was relentless in getting it settled without court. I can only imagine the stories he told about the divorce. But there’s always someone to blame…

ImmaChumpToo
ImmaChumpToo
9 months ago

In July 2021 (1 month after divorce; 2 months after final DDay) I got, “You always rammed church down my throat.” That’s funny because he got saved in December 2019 and stood up in front of our Sunday school class and gave his testimony, so I assumed we were on the same page about church.

Kate
Kate
9 months ago

Mine still refuses to admit he was cheating. Despite all of the accumulated evidence he maintains they were “just friends.” No need for excuses, just deny everything forever.

DrChump
DrChump
9 months ago
Reply to  Kate

A colleague FW just got divorced and has/is screwing his nurse. Appears it has been going on for years. Nurse has a small child. I feel so bad for her husband ( I hear he just found out). What makes me angry is most people buy the narrative that nurse had to have affair because “marriage was over long time ago, husband won’t sleep with her”. I know friends of the husband and they say not true at all. He was blind sided and a wreck. I told them about this site and ordered him a book.
Amazing how people can justify betrayal

Rebecca
Rebecca
9 months ago
Reply to  Kate

2 days short of 10 years officially divorced and 13 years from DDay, ex refuses to admit that there was an affair.
So stupid but I could care less.
Kids and I (and everyone else) know the truth.

HereWeGoAgain
HereWeGoAgain
9 months ago
Reply to  Kate

Yes, funny about that!… “I swear I didn’t do it – but here’s my list of what’s wrong with YOU!”

Chumpington
Chumpington
9 months ago
Reply to  Kate

Me too. It makes recovery so much harder because you gaslight yourself. My biggest crime was buying a greenhouse and not growing anything in it btw.

Gonegirl
Gonegirl
9 months ago

I have had two relationships, my marriage and a long term boyfriend after my divorce, when they ended one of their shared complaints was that I made more money than them. Yes, I make more money, I have two masters and I work hard in my career. You both barely graduated high school. Both of them benefited from my income and my children benefited. I didn’t hold it over them, I just am not like that. I live in a small southern town where I grew up and live a modest lifestyle, because I have no desire to “keep up with the Joneses”. I proudly shop at Walmart and don’t mind telling people that I bought something at Walmart.

My now husband is the opposite. He’s an accountant and tells me I need a raise. I let him do my taxes when we were dating close to a year, because why should I pay someone to do it when I am dating seriously an accountant? If he said one word, I was going to tell him to shove it. He said nothing. That was one of the many signs that he was it.

Your partner should want you to do well, it isn’t a threat to their ego. If your partner does well, it benefits you and the family also. I don’t understand why men have such an issue with this.

M
M
9 months ago
Reply to  Gonegirl

Good for you. That’s one of the reasons my FW cheated. I make dramatically more than he does.

Rubytuesday
Rubytuesday
9 months ago
Reply to  M

Can’t win can you. I made less.
I so had a better degree and that wasn’t fair

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
9 months ago
Reply to  Gonegirl

Happy for you Gonegirl! I’ve always said that, too. A good partner will be thrilled you’re successful! My X was always throwing up roadblocks to me, but I went to college as an older student, and got my degree anyway. Why would you want your spouse to fail? ( because you are insecure, and maybe jealous)

Damechump
Damechump
9 months ago

He had to move out with zero warning (which I had reason to believe was to initiate or rekindle an affair) because I didn’t let him choose the finish on our new kitchen appliances. The truth of that was I didn’t want them replaced at all, but he insisted, and he asked for my opinion on the finishes because, per him, I have better taste than he does. (I did keep a really nice house.) I didn’t really care but gave my opinion because it was asked. He then purchased them, making his own decision to follow my opinion, and that was what drove him to leave: “I really wanted stainless steel but you made me get black.”

BTW, He let me know after 16 years together that he was moving out in 48 hours VIA EMAIL. We were both in the house at the same time, he didn’t have the balls to say it to my face. As another friend noted (someone who was originally his friend rather than mine, btw),”Coward.” #ClassAct, #StainlessLove #StainlessForever

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
9 months ago
Reply to  Damechump

I forget the kitchen episode. In wreckonsillyation, he bought a huge house we didnt need and could not afford. His job was shaky and I knew it. We needed a new stove and he decided we would completely redo the slightly ugly but perfectly good kitchen. The changes he suggested would be at least $25,000 that we literally did not have (and oldest son was just starting college, so we were bleeding money). He was so angry that I refused to spend the $25,000, he bought the cheapest stove he could find to punish me. I hate cooking, so I didnt care.

For a whole host of reasons, I still live in that house. I did redo the kitchen and its lovely, but I waited until I could afford it.

tallgrass
tallgrass
9 months ago
Reply to  Damechump

Mine let me know in a random phone call, “Okay, I can help you with that. But, There’s something else I’ve been wanting to ask you. Can I have a girlfriend?” Forty year marriage. He moved out with his clothes two weeks later because the “potential?” girlfriend was already planning their wedding. Haven’t talked to him or seen him since except on zoom at the divorce hearing. These are weirdos!!! Such a waste of my life!

Kara
Kara
9 months ago
Reply to  tallgrass

If my husband of 40 years asked me that, I’d say “You can if we divorce.”

Or “You already do, clearly. There’s no other reason to ask me such an asenine question.”

Aaaaand still divorce.

Conchobara
Conchobara
9 months ago
Reply to  tallgrass

!!!!!

Little Wing
Little Wing
9 months ago
Reply to  Conchobara

“!!!!!”

This reply is so elegant that it borders on poetry.

(;->)

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
9 months ago

Here is one for the books:

“Your mom said mean things to me and you didn’t stand up for me.”… so I had to go down to my man cave, get online through Adult Friend Finder with Karen and jerk off together.

Down the road, I got:

“You put our son to bed every night and then stay upstairs.”… so I had the sadz and made plans to f*ck a Craigslist hooker while you took our son to a friends birthday party the next day.

The thing about cheaters to remember is – they all sing from the same choir book. TGIF Chumps… you’ve got this!

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
9 months ago

He once told me that one evening when he was considering leaving the family, he went to each persons room about 9pm and knocked on the door. I told him I was getting the then-2nd grade girl in pajamas and both boys were busy with school work. He decided that our refusal to engage him in that precise moment meant we did not value or need him an the decided to leave for Susan. Golly…putting child in pajamas was quite a ghastly thing for me to do

Redkd
Redkd
9 months ago

“You’re always buying stuff on Amazon! I had no control of our finances at all!!” (So, you can see why he had to sneak around and spend thousands from our IRA for sex workers!)

“And I never had a mail key!! I didn’t even have control over the mail!!!” (No, this is not out of A Doll’s House..he just refused to carry keys with him, so his key was in a basket in the kitchen).

“You lie too!” (There’s a difference between “who farted?” “Not me!” And “I was in Florida for a work training event!” When you were actually with Schmoopie…)

Rubytuesday
Rubytuesday
9 months ago
Reply to  Redkd

You spend too much. I only spend on getting to work, train tickets and petrol for the car.
So yes getting food for everyone, new clothes when needed, paying all the utilities, including car insurance sort of justifies ow then

Elsie
Elsie
9 months ago
Reply to  Redkd

One of my ex’s gripes just before he left was that I threw out junk mail addressed to him and shredded credit card offers to him. He had told me to do that for years because “he didn’t want to be bothered.” The policy changed. Got it.

So after that, I began giving him everything and watching all that stack up, un-looked at. When he took off, I faithfully grew the stack and gave it to him the two times I saw him in the weeks after. Then when he was truly gone and looking for a place to rent, I sent everything to the hotels where he was staying.

Finally, he got a P.O. box in the area he was planning to stay in and got his address changed with the post office. I still got the junk mail but decided to ditch it. I think once or twice a medical bill came which I forwarded to him. It wasn’t much.

I still wonder why credit card offers and junk mail become such an issue.

Adelante
Adelante
9 months ago
Reply to  Elsie

I think it’s part of their “you’re not the boss of me” thinking: “Oh, look, she’s so controlling! She won’t let me have my own mail! I’ll show her!” Just part of how they justify the logically unjustifiable.

The Ex-Mrs. Sparkly Pants
The Ex-Mrs. Sparkly Pants
9 months ago
Reply to  Adelante

Or he had secret credit cards he didn’t want her to know about.

Redkd
Redkd
9 months ago
Reply to  Adelante

Yes, totally a control thing.

Elsie
Elsie
9 months ago
Reply to  Adelante

I agree. There was other illogical garbage than an outsider would laugh at.

He asked me to pack his “blue pills” and male hormones during separation. He had left with a few bags and wanted those early on. They nearly filled a suitcase. I knew the message, “I plan to cheat, you jerk.” But no, it was for when we got back together. How could you believe anything else, dear wife? I even took pictures with my phone for potential evidence.

Later, my attorney asked if I knew if my ex had committed adultery or not (still a for-cause reason for divorce here). I cited the suitcase, which totally cracked up my 69 y.o. attorney, who said, “We truly can’t make these things up, can we?”

Josh
Josh
9 months ago

I caused her to feel depressed, I caused her unhappiness.

It was I who checked out, not her. She needed to find her happiness again.

NotAnymore
NotAnymore
9 months ago
Reply to  Josh

Same. Apparently I had “decided the marriage was over a long time ago” and simply wasn’t telling him. He of course magically knew which made us “basically divorced already.”

This is why they call NPD “crazy making.”

Motherchumper99
Motherchumper99
9 months ago
Reply to  Josh

The whole “causing another to feel ….” xyz is such blameshifting. We feel emotions because of our own thoughts. She sucks!
My XH said that I “made him feel inadequate.” That was baffling. I adored and respected him. He felt inadequate because HE was thinking thoughts …. Or, it was all a lie to try to get my reaction. They suck!

Cassie
Cassie
9 months ago

After I showed him the evidence I found of his affair (I was totally blindsided and devastated), he yelled “I hate that you love math!” What?! How does that even come to your mind?! Note: I’m a banker. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Angro
Angro
9 months ago
Reply to  Cassie

FTW: “I hate that you love math!” 😂. Like a 9-year-old’s comeback.

Adelante
Adelante
9 months ago
Reply to  Cassie

I bet he didn’t mind your financial acumen, though…

susie lee
susie lee
9 months ago
Reply to  Cassie

I honestly think many of these cheaters just spout stuff and they don’t eve remember in the next two minutes what they have said.

My cheater said in to our preacher that he had always tried to get me to be more self sufficient, and in the next sentence said but “I (meaning himself) am a controller”.

First of all I was and have always been self sufficient, so that was a lie, but he up until the beginning of the year of discard, didn’t want me out at night, he insisted on handling the money, he insisted on making all major decisions etc. It wasn’t that I couldn’t it was that he would not allow it. I had two choices either go along, or leave. I made the wrong choice, I spackled, because I thought his good points outweighed his faults.

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
9 months ago
Reply to  susie lee

Yes, they spout off and dont even keep track…in one evening, I was accused of being both “too sinful” and “too Holy”

OHFFS
OHFFS
9 months ago
Reply to  susie lee

“I honestly think many of these cheaters just spout stuff and they don’t eve remember in the next two minutes what they have said.”

That’s exactly what they do, Susie. My FW would also completely contradict himself in the same conversation, even the same sentence. They just throw out whatever weird lie enters their empty noggins. Since they have so few coherent thoughts, they seize upon anything that makes some sort of batshit crazy sense to them. They toss it out recklessly, unable to put it through a filter to see if it’s logical.

Redkd
Redkd
9 months ago
Reply to  Cassie

I’m dying, that’s so weird!!! Lol

Motherchumper99
Motherchumper99
9 months ago

I never bought him a comfortable chair to sit in, therefore he had to cheat….. XH made seven figures. I’m
A lawyer, not a decorator- “buy your own damn chair asshole!”

Funny thing… x left our beautiful dream home— 5 bedrooms filled with our 4 precious children’s things everything we’d collected over 26 years to live in a ground floor studio with a mattress on the floor.

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
9 months ago

Oh yes, I never bought him a guitar. He didnt play the guitar.

Hurt1
Hurt1
9 months ago

First 2 yrs after FW moved out he in lived in an apartment over a Dollar General in an armpit of a town 50 miles away. Early on I had contact with MIL & she once remarked FW was disappointed that that Dollar
in General didn’t have the steamer he needed in stock. Boo hoo. Up to that point I think I had been in a Dollar General a few times but after his move out it was probably a decade before I went in one again.

billiejean
billiejean
9 months ago

he cheated mercilessly early in our relationship. years later, 2 years into an engagement I found recent flirtatious message he sent to an ex that he missed having “fun” with her and hinted that “he’s not married yet” I ripped up the marriage license application in his face and left. He then declared that he’s DONE with me and he can’t do this anymore because I’m a runner and I always leave. I had the gall to leave before his birthday. Nevermind that HES the LiAR and CHEATER. what an entitled ass.

Kara
Kara
9 months ago
Reply to  billiejean

That sounds like “You can’t fire me! I quit!” Cheater edition!

Daughterofachump
Daughterofachump
9 months ago
Reply to  billiejean

billiejean, good for you!

NotAnymore
NotAnymore
9 months ago
Reply to  billiejean

I love the thought of being “a runner” – hell yes! We should all be taught to run from people like him.

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
9 months ago

He had been pushing for us to have another child, but I was uncomfortable because I kept catching him in lies (He’d say he was traveling for work, but was taking mini golf vacations for himself, no work involved, even though we had a kid at home, and I was doing most of the parenting and housework (I still worked full time)so he could study for the CPA exam.) I insisted on couples counseling before we had another kid. I complained about his lying and taking off because adulting was just too much (this was after the financial infidelity years prior). He countered with complaints about my leaving my shoes by the door when I’d take them off when I got home. Because three pairs of heels is totally the same thing.

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
9 months ago
Reply to  CurlyChump

Oh how horrible of you not to find time to organize your shoes in between working FT and doing all the childcare while he played. 😡

Adelante
Adelante
9 months ago
Reply to  CurlyChump

Wow! That’s an Everest’s worth of difference!

Kara
Kara
9 months ago

Oh this one got thrown at me often.

I had a very angry abusive ex (I’ve mentioned him a few times) who hated a certain pair of heels I have. He would call them “slut shoes” and the one time I tried to wear them when he wasn’t with me he accused me of trying to get attention from other men because “women don’t go out looking that good if they don’t want attention!”

He compared me going out wearing heels without him to him walking into a gay club without a shirt.

So according to him, women wearing heels in public is the same as a man going to a gay club shirtless.

I still have those heels.

Journey's Rest
Journey's Rest
9 months ago
Reply to  Kara

Hi Kara,
I bet you looked great in those heels. An abusive Ex got angry about a party outfit I was wearing, saying that I looked so stupid that men would hit on me because they’d think I was dumb. I was in shock, and didn’t go to the party. (A modest outfit too) After I left him and my head cleared, I realized that he didn’t want any competition, and he wanted to poison my mind so I would male attention as an insult rather than appreciation. Possessive jealousy like that is a red flag.

KatiePig
KatiePig
9 months ago
Reply to  Kara

You, a straight woman, wearing heels that might attract men is the same as him going into a gay club and trying to attract other men… That’s how his mind works.

So he cheated on you with men too, right? I had one of those as well, he would occasionally say something super weird and unexpectedly gay like this too.

Kara
Kara
9 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

He cheated on me with some girl he knew in high school. He maintained they didn’t get together until after he dumped me, but I’m not stupid. He’s one of those “deny it forever” types, even though everyone on my side looks at the evidence and says “yeah, he cheated.”

Kara
Kara
9 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

No, he’s not gay. He was just drawing a false equivalence. He’d never been to a gay club.

The equivalence he was trying to draw was me going out in public wearing heels is on the same level as a man going into a gay club shirtless. The point being to get sexual attention.

Because he believes the only reason women dress up is to get male attention. And he would argue to the point of yelling at me that this is the truth. It was a hill he would die on.

Angro
Angro
9 months ago
Reply to  Kara

Reminds me of the Chicks song:

“Put on, put on, put on your best shoes
And strut the f*ck around, like you’ve got nothing to lose”

Kara
Kara
9 months ago
Reply to  Angro

I love them! They are black heels with red ribbons and bats on the buckles.

alas rainy again
alas rainy again
9 months ago
Reply to  Kara

Hello Kara! Your FW sounds crazy with the heels you have. “slut shoes”? He accused you of trying to get attention from other men because “women don’t go out looking that good if they don’t want attention!”? Yeah sure. Or could it be that he frequents a prostitute that has the same model?

Kara
Kara
9 months ago

Nah, he wasn’t frequenting sex workers, he just thought that if I was dressing up and he wasn’t with me, then it MUST be because I was out trying to get other men to look at me. Because women only dress up for attention. When I told him I dress up for myself because it makes me feel good, he said “What, me telling you you’re beautiful isn’t enough?”

He told me that if what I was wearing would be inappropriate for a little girl to wear, then why am I wearing it? So apparently I should only be dressing up for him, and if he’s not with me, then I should be dressing equivalent to a little girl.

At first he said what would I say if I saw my grandma dressing in “slut shoes” like that. I said my grandmothers can wear whatever they want and as long as they don’t fall and hurt themselves, I don’t care if they wear heels. Then he changed it to little girl.

He was a really huge slut-shamer. He told me that dressing a certain way will attract attention and it doesn’t matter what I feel, men are gross and I should be aware of what they will do to me (victim-blame thinly veiled with faux concern for my safety.) I told him men who are going to be gross are just going to be gross. I’ve been harassed wearing sweatpants. He told me then I shouldn’t “up the ante” by going out “looking like that” meaning….I guess anything like an adult woman given the standard is clothing appropriate for a child.

He wasn’t a frequenter of sex workers, but he was a frequent mind-fucker.

BTAW
BTAW
9 months ago
Reply to  Kara

Wear them to the grocery store!

Kara
Kara
9 months ago
Reply to  BTAW

I should wear them grocery shopping. I have some gothy pants and a shirt that says “Witch Queen” that would go perfectly with them. The shirt glows in the dark too.

MuchBetterOff
MuchBetterOff
9 months ago

You see- one time I got mad at him for ruining the oven by not taking a plastic lid off of a baking dish so he just never did anything in the kitchen again because I’m just an awful shrill dramatic harpy for no reason.

Kara
Kara
9 months ago
Reply to  MuchBetterOff

Malicious compliance. You ask for a simple correction and they turn it into an attack on them.

“Please don’t leave plastic lids on things in the oven, it melts and creates a fire hazard.”

“FINE! I guess Ill never do any cooking or go in the kitchen ever again because I am just too stupid and incompetent to be trusted there!”

Kathleen
Kathleen
9 months ago

After 35 years married and many red flags I ignored, he finally told me “I fell out of love with you because you nag”. Meanwhile he was still sleeping with both of us
When I discovered the truth I served him divorce papers. Wasted so many years. 😥

ActaNonVerba
ActaNonVerba
9 months ago

We’d been together nearly 40 years, and thought we had a great relationship because we never argued, let alone fought.

After several D-days, when I insisted we go to counseling, we were surprised that the therapist didn’t give us a gold star for our peaceful home. She led us to uncover that it was because FW must always be in control, and that I, hating conflict, would submit to whatever he wanted. I was so well trained by my FOO, religion, etc., that he never even had to raise his voice – so good was I at anticipatory accommodation.

Reader, this revelation created conflict! FW considered what the therapist was pointing out, and then in outraged defensiveness, nearly jumped from his chair pointing at me and crying, “I made ONE mistake (his ongoing affair with ho-worker) but you’ve been LYING to me for all these years!”

By the end of the session, FW had promised me and the therapist that all that was needed to fix our marriage would be for ME to stop LYING to him about my true feelings. 😳

Turns out FW didn’t actually want that at all. He hated learning that I didn’t like the same foods, TV slows, or his ho-worker, or his his abuse made me feel. Suddenly he was openly complaining that I’d changed, and I wasn’t the same sweet girl he’d married!

SM
SM
9 months ago
Reply to  ActaNonVerba

My FW complained and bonded with his AP over the way I folded laundry/put dishes in the dishwasher/the frequency I cleaned my car/etc. In our couples therapy, he talked about how I miss matched a dark grey sock with a black sock of the EXACT same pattern. He said over the years these were examples of me “not putting in any effort” and being “aloof”. Almost all of his complaits are of similar calibur. Added up over time, it meant I was a bad wife, who was aloof and didnt put any effort in. Thats why he had the affair. Lol I cant make this stuff up! The silly thing is im a very tidy/clean person! He also glossed over the fact, that we have two young children I was raising while he was out golfing and f**king his AP, worked full time, and that I was doing my masters full time – All the while making time for him/family/friends. But yes, while the laundry was being done, detailed attention was lacking. I was busy doing just a few other things. Ergo – his justification for a 2 month affair.

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
9 months ago
Reply to  SM

I swear I find golf triggering after my ex.

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
9 months ago

I was unconscionably hangry on a vacation to Sicily in 2005. We were dating and just returned from a deployment. He willingly vacationed with me the following year, proposed in 2008 and cheated in……..2018. and his excuse was the one day that I was hangry in 2005.

Oh and I don’t like CrossFit. Not fitness in general, just CrossFit. Which he knew by 2008/2009. And cheated, again, in 2018.

I was NOT a superstar wife by any means. He could have picked any number of imperfections. Makes me wonder if he literally just didn’t pay attention after the honeymoon phase. Which makes sense, that’s what it felt like.

My response to all this bullshit was “Why did you even marry me then?”

NotFromVenus
NotFromVenus
9 months ago

Dontfeellikedancing they treat their life partners the most humiliating way and then come up with the most stupid reasons. My ex- husband and I shared same interests. We had fun together. We would sit and talk for hours about books, nature, tennis, baking and many more, except alcohol. He drinks a lot and I might have a glass of wine rarely. I do not enjoy it. When he started acting horrible out of a sudden (I did not know anything about his double life then), he was saying that I was not fun enough just because I did not drink and go to a bar with him every single night.

Dontfeellikedancin
Dontfeellikedancin
9 months ago

^ I guess that was as much FW’s “excuses for cheating” as it is “false equivalency.”

So the one that really hurt my brain was:
When he was arguing with me about whether I really wanted to divorce him over cheating, I said “you took a vow, forsaking all others!” he came back with “Well YOU said, til death do us part!”

So I was breaking my vows by imposing consequences for the breaking of vows? That were already broken?

Rather than following him into this false equivalency spiral I just called my lawyer and documented that he threatened me. The more I saw how absurd and self serving everything he said was, the easier it was to keep marching toward meh.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
9 months ago

Once FW asked me (on my BIRTHDAY) if I would remarry if he died. I said I didn’t know, but maybe, since I was still young (I mostly said it to get him to shut up, because I didn’t really want to talk about him dying and he WOULD NOT LET IT GO). He was SOOOOO offended and angry (“you said I was your one and only!”). I guess that’s why he decided that it was fine for him to fuck someone else while I was very much still alive. He brought this incident up numerous times in arguments during our separation/divorce.

LovedAJackass
LovedAJackass
9 months ago

Let’s compare “You never walk down to the lower yard” (when I took care of all the perennial beds around the house) vs. “I haven’t seen you sober in 3 years.”

Ugh@him
Ugh@him
9 months ago

One of the many “yeah I cheated…but you” reasons he gave was he didn’t know how to handle us watching things with dead dads in it because they didn’t make me uncomfortable I guess ?? My dad deserted me at 22 when my mom kicked him out for cheating (shocker!) and then died years later and my ex wouldn’t take the answer of “it doesn’t bother me because I had 6 years to grieve my dad’s death before he actually died!” as a real reason. He really stuck to the dead dad thing as a reason and explanation on how I don’t ‘talk to him’ about anything.. except I did, and we’d already gone through the dad stuff 5 years ago when he died! It was like I didn’t grieve the way he expected me to or that I should’ve dwelled on it for years after when the reality is HE wasn’t there for me when shit originally happened in 2012.

Also “you worry about money too much and I know I’m bad with money”. I won’t apologize for not living in the fantasy world where racking up thousands of dollars of debt because you want to buy bullshit is okay. This one really pissed me off because at the time of confrontation I’d been trying to figure out how we could get a bit of ‘fun money’ together for a small vacation… while he was spending money on plane tickets and hotel rooms in expensive cities.

2xchump🚫again
2xchump🚫again
9 months ago

Before I retired, I did pediatric hospice in a big children’s hospital. My STBXH said I” changed “during that career and wasn’t as receptive to his constant demands for sex. Therefore, because of my distance he HAD to find sex outside our marriage to meet his needs, so I deserved his multiple affairs as he was forced to meet his own needs. I know if I had cancer or a back injury or GOD FORBID needed him, I’d be left right there at the hospital, chemo clinic or at home. I will thank him as soon as this divorce is final, for showing me WITHOUT A SINGLE DOUBT, that he 100% sucked. Other folks have to return 70 x7 before their cheater- lier shows his/ her true feathers. Not me. I’m soon to be free of a man who did not love me at all.

Skunkcabbage
Skunkcabbage
9 months ago

I was already floundering in the mirage when XAss’s Grandmother’s health began to decline. Witnessing how his father and my X were handling her illnesses (which they said she was exaggerating – a 92 year old woman!) and how they subsequently treated her until her death a few years later, freaked me out. I think that was one of the contributing factors that finally got me off my ass and to a divorce lawyer. If he could treat his own grandmother, who pretty much raised him and gave him the sun and the moon, how would he treat me if/when I became ill? And then I took a long hard look at how he treated me during my pregnancy with his long-wanted son (who he tried to turn into a mini-me and blames me for the kid not being that.) which was pretty much very non-attentive. And I knew that he would never be there for me when I needed him to be.

2xchump🚫again
2xchump🚫again
9 months ago

Wait! One more because I had 2 cheaters!! My first cheater left me on the delivery room table to show OW pictures of his new baby girl. I was told by my XH that she could not have kids, so she could enjoy his new baby like it was hers. So thank you for having this baby for us!The judge said no overnight visits until my new baby was weaned. I breast fed my daughter for 12 months!! That was the best I could do. I had no idea I was a surrogate! My XH said his new OW wasn’t wrapped up in kids like I was!! Seriously!

Conchobara
Conchobara
9 months ago

My God! I am so sorry, that’s insane!

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
9 months ago

What the actual fuck?

That is heinous.

ChumpedForANewerModel
ChumpedForANewerModel
9 months ago

Thinking back on it there are a few that I can think about:
1. I was 20 minutes late picking him up from the airport (I had to lead a meeting since my boss was away on travel)
2. I did not go into the exam room with him when he went for a very minor proceedure.
3. I worked to much so he just had to cheat because I was not home on time to take care of his needs.

I am just sooooooo glad to be out. Ex just sucked.

Savage Chump
Savage Chump
9 months ago

I went to DC to visit my cousin for her 30th birthday party. It was a Thanksgiving weekend and I repeatedly asked my exBF if he was cool with it. He assured me that he was and that I should go enjoy myself since I don’t get to see her often. Few months later, his double life was revealed and I learned he spent that Thanksgiving weekend with his other (first?) gf. When confronted, he said “you left me that weekend, I needed to be around family (we live in SC and he’s from MS), and I was hungry.” LOL

Shann
Shann
9 months ago

He tells me the cheating was all his fault but if we’re going to have to work together to get through it and that eventually I “have to let it go” (for myself of course) this makes me cringe
Telling me to let it go
I thought we’d have done a lot more work by now.
I got a call back from an attorney that I reached out to previously.
Can someone tell me how to approach this? How do I finally decide it won’t work for the long haul?
Of course he thinks it will and tells me to be positive and that it can work.

NotAnymore
NotAnymore
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

Sorry looks like him giving you a quick and fair divorce.

Without a divorce, how are you to know that he isn’t just pressuring you to stay so he doesn’t have to split finances with you 50/50? Or maybe you do the chores or life planning or parenting – and he simply doesn’t want to do it all himself? Or maybe he just doesn’t want other people to know he had an affair?

What is he getting out of the relationship? What are YOU getting out of it?

Decide if you are happy with your relationship as it is now, because the “long haul” never gets any better.

All a Blur
All a Blur
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

Of course every cheater is a variation on the theme and not exactly the same, but the trends are very, very clear. My FW told me I had to let it go, too. She even asked me how long it would take. When I said I didn’t know, she got mad. Hadn’t been a month yet.

Any doubts I had were cleared up when I saw a message to her AP saying he should lay low for a few months, then get back in touch. This kind of crap seems to be the rule, not the exception. As Tracy says, “trust that he sucks.”

If they tell you that you have to get over it, it’s because they don’t want to get over it themselves. Just past the temporary issue of your knowing, and back into action.

OHFFS
OHFFS
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

Shann, only you can say what you are willing to accept. You have to make this decision on that basis, not on what we would or would not accept.
It sounds to me like this relationship is indeed unacceptable to you, but you are having trouble pulling the trigger because you are second guessing yourself. Why not just grit your teeth and pull it? After all, you could always get back together if indeed he turns out to be a unicorn. He will almost certainly not, but if the possibility of him being a unicorn is keeping you stuck, remember that you have the option to reconsider later, if he proves himself sincere.

Shann
Shann
9 months ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Thanks so
Much… pull the trigger that’s it
And you aren’t the first person to tell me this. Why am I so afraid? I am independent I have a job go to school all the things I need to do get done by the grace of God anyway.
Afraid of hurting him🤦🏼‍♀️? Or going through withdrawals of a “relationship”

CatsAreBetter
CatsAreBetter
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

There is definitely some type of ‘withdrawal effect’ even when the relationship is awful and you’re the one who wanted out.
I recommend making sure to keep busy without dating for a solid year after getting out. A hasty rebound can be as big a mistake or worse than the original jerk.Work on your mightiness first.

Reconnect with people, places, and activities you used to enjoy before FW derailed your journey.

If certain places or objects remind you too much of FW, replace them and over-write old memories with new ones that bring you contentment and joy.

Discover new things and your own possibilities for growth and success. The only person you should be giving every chance is YOU. Good luck in your flight to freedom.

OHFFS
OHFFS
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

There definitely is a withdrawal you go through. The trouble is that you never get out of it if you stay. You are stuck grieving the relationship you thought you had for eternity. I would say you should just make your body do it even if your emotions are telling you not to. Those feelings are normal and should not stop you from doing what is best for you. Nor should sympathy for the FW. You can sympathize if you want to, yet still leave. It comes down to caring about yourself more than caring about somebody who is, if you’re being objective, both beneath you and undeserving of your love. That frees you up to give your love to more deserving souls.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

Nothing to work with here, if he’s talking at all about what YOU will need to do to get past the affair. That’s all on him. One of the prerequisites for any true reconciliation is for the cheater to realize that they have NO control over how long it takes the chump to heal, and to allow the chump whatever time s/he needs without judgement.

He just wants you to forgive and forget.

And he’ll want the same the next time it “happens” (he cheats).

Call the lawyer back and get YOUR life started.

Skunkcabbage
Skunkcabbage
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann
marissachump
marissachump
9 months ago

My example is messy. She spent YEARS shaming and blaming me for the cheating because I wasn’t polyamorous like supposedly is (which I only discovered years into it when she forced me into a “polyamorous relationship” without my knowledge or consent). She worked endlessly to try to pimp me out to all of her gross friends. I did end up building a good friendship with a not gross one of her friends and she did everything in her power to try to get us together. She threatened further cheating over it. So much abuse and manipulation. Years and years into her abusing me with this excuse, I finally decided what the hell and agreed. We ended up forming a truple of sorts. But then she decided this friend was no longer okay and demanded I dump him immediately, while she was continuing to cheat the whole time. He treated me FAR better than ever she did, so I wasn’t on board, especially after she had forced me to twist myself into a mold in which I did not fit to accommodate her whims. I didn’t feel like jumping to the next manipulation because she was bored with the first one. So I said no. She then claimed I was cheating on her and it was equivalent to the years and years of her cheating on me with at least 10 people that I know of (there’s surely dozens more) along with all the other forms of abuse and constant painful infections. She cried endlessly and told everyone, including our “couple’s therapist,” how cruel I was. I guess her coercing me into a truple with her full knowledge and consent and then not dancing when she demanded it of me is the exact same as years of deception, manipulation, abuse, bodily harm, and threats.

OHFFS
OHFFS
9 months ago
Reply to  marissachump

“She worked endlessly to try to pimp me out to all of her gross friends. I did end up building a good friendship with a not gross one of her friends and she did everything in her power to try to get us together. She threatened further cheating over it.”

That’s one sick freak. She’s not polyamorous, she’s actually abuse-o-sexual.

Shann
Shann
9 months ago

Also please enlighten me; for those of you who’s husband chose not to leave (by the way if he did he did you a favor) how/when did you decide enough even if it appeared he wasn’t cheating.

The Ex-Mrs. Sparkly Pants
The Ex-Mrs. Sparkly Pants
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

From Shann: “Also please enlighten me; for those of you who’s husband chose not to leave (by the way if he did he did you a favor) how/when did you decide enough even if it appeared he wasn’t cheating.”

For at least a couple of years, whenever we had an argument, he’d scream “I’m so mad I want to go out and FUCK something.” Something. Not someone. But I never saw any evidence of cheating, and he always insisted (when not raging) that he would never cheat on me because I’d know about it and kill him. Cheater strangled me and dumped my unconscious body on the highway. I had a new apartment and had moved in and unpacked by the end of the week, taking care to never encounter him again. I found out about the cheating much later. He fooled me for years because I was looking for other women, not other men.

We were living on a sailboat in Florida, and Hurricane Irma was coming. (Different cheater.). He refused to do any hurricane prep until the marina deckhands shamed him into it. He came home from “a trip to the grocery store” and found Javier helping me with the prep. During the hurricane, when the city was flooded, our boat was heeled over at what felt like a 90 degree angle, and between the wind, the storm surge and the waves it was like sitting inside a Maytag washer, I found out about the “girlfriend.” He insisted they’d never “done anything wrong,” but the text chain was pretty damning. It took about six weeks for the flood waters to ebb, the draw bridges to be repaired and life to return to “normal.” For much of that time, I couldn’t leave because I physically could not get to land. I left because I was so ANGRY. He kept telling me I needed to “get over it” because “I’m not going to eat humble pie forever.” (As if he had ever eaten humble pie.) I thought if I left, I’d get over the anger faster. I left as soon as it was possible for me to reserve a rental car and took only what I could carry . . . and the dog. I started over at 62 and discovered that life was ever so much better without him in it.

Shann
Shann
9 months ago

Exsparklypants
I never knew your story was so wild! So dangerous I am first so glad you’re ok and Better now! I am so glad you survived this and got away.
It’s like something from a movie! And the first experience I am so terribly sorry he did that to you. And also VERY glad you got away
Both times!
Thanks for your inspiration

Chumpy VonChumpster
Chumpy VonChumpster
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

Shann, after I found out about my FW and his shmoopie and gave it a go to wreckoncile, I just one day realised that “this relationship was not acceptable to me”, that he was not good enough for me, that I thought he was pathetic, that I could never trust him again, and that everything had changed. I didn’t want to live the rest of my life being uncomfortable with someone like him.

CatsAreBetter
CatsAreBetter
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

My XH was a dishonest person in other ways and kept trying to manipulate me into participating in his increasingly fraudulent schemes. When he wanted me to commit perjury to be a partner in an enterprise of dubious legality to bankroll his flailing “creative” dream to save him from having to get a day job, I was through. Ten years together and he didn’t realize that I was the last person on Earth to knowingly participate in a financial fraud. Regular work was beneath him, but mooching and running scams was gentlemanly. I can’t respect a person like that. I was never 100% sure there was more going on than porn and emotional affairs, but I was not going to support a parasite.

He claimed it was my fault because I didn’t believe in his talent enough. (Translation: I didn’t subsidize his illusions like his dear mama did.) Reality: I wrote his one and only successful grant application and he rested on the laurels for years. Even his bogus statements are derivative.

NotAnymore
NotAnymore
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

I never had hard proof. But after years of problems, I found online correspondence of his with an old girlfriend.

I had the thought: “this is not the marriage I signed up for.”

If someone had told you on your wedding day that this would happen, would you have gotten married?

For me the answer was a resounding NO. I filed that day.

Angry
Angry
9 months ago
Reply to  NotAnymore

I think that’s a good thought exercise. Imagine yourself on your wedding day, your spouse is saying their vows – and imagine them saying “I promise that in x years I am going to cheat on you for x amount of time with x”.
Would you go ahead with the wedding? Absolutely not.

OHFFS
OHFFS
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

Well Shann, it was a few weeks weeks after Dday that I said enough is enough and made plans to leave. I had spent that time processing what happened so was not in any condition to think straight or decide anything. However, I had seen how insincere his remorse was and I knew there was nothing to work with. If he had been sincere I don’t know if I would have given him another chance. Probably not. He made it easy for me by continuing to be an asshole while saying he was sorry and wanted to stay together. On the surface he did the right things; the post-nup, gping to therapy, ending the affair and allowing me complete access to his devices and emails. However, he was unwilling to stop lying and being casually cruel, which made anything else he did or said pathetically false. I’m certain he was not cheating, as his mistress now hated him for the way he threw her under the bus. It didn’t matter. He’d have done it again eventually, and in the meantime would have only gotten meaner. It was awhile after I decided to leave before I could get into a place of my own, and that was torture, but once I left, the sense of peace and freedom was priceless.

pulchie
pulchie
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

I’m not saying it’s easy to do, I’m saying it’s an easy answer to a simple question.

That’s what pushed me over the edge.

pulchie
pulchie
9 months ago
Reply to  Shann

Easy: “Is this relationship acceptable to you?”

Cerise
Cerise
9 months ago

Shann, you have to ask yourself if this is acceptable to you. Is it acceptable to stay with someone that has harmed and betrayed you in the most intimate way possible? Someone you wouldn’t trust as far as you can spit? Someone who wants YOU to “just let it go”? How about just let HIM go! He can go work on redeeming himself somewhere else while you live a happy and fuckwit-free life.
You hold all the power here.

Shann
Shann
9 months ago
Reply to  Cerise

I appreciate this! I have all the power. I def do why am I so worried about him and my step daughter I’m so mad at myself
For getting this far

Janeiro
Janeiro
9 months ago

Picking up the wrong sandwich for him was apparently equivalent to having an affair and moving his mistress from Brazil and setting her up in a flat near our family home.

OHFFS
OHFFS
9 months ago
Reply to  Janeiro

FFS. Makes me wish the sandwich had been rotten egg salad.

Chloe
Chloe
9 months ago

Oooh! I got a very recent one!
My ex-husband told our kids he would take them to Canada for a month this summer. We live in Europe so that’s quite a trip.
When I told him he should talk to me about those things before involving the children, he replied that hadn’t told him before I went on vacation with them. Oh, right, I took them for 5 days to my mother’s. Definitely the same as getting them on another continent for a month!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
9 months ago

Okay, here’s one, but it’s not all that funny: Who knew that crying is equivalent to holding a gun to someone’s head in an act of forcible rape? Who knew tears are as deadly as bullets and you could, say, rob a bank merely by sniveling? By that logic, if your nose starts running near a cop, they’d be justified in gunning you down.

The time I burst into tears after FW avoided sex for the entire week following Valentine’s Day was apparently “sexual coercion” on my part– i.e., attempted rape! Meanwhile, his demanding sex for more than a year under circumstances where I would have refused had I known the truth– that he was rawdogging the office doorknob and exposing me to God knows what, racking up credit card debt equivalent to the kids’ college funds, secretly drinking himself into psychosis, etc.– was somehow not “sexual agency robbing”?

The absurdity of an equivocation like that would be hilarious if it weren’t for the fact that, by the time a FW is spewing such bizarre crap, they’ve usually got you over such a barrel that you’re afraid to openly disagree much less laugh in their face. Then they take hijack your stunned confusion or silent gaping as agreement. The worse the absurdity, the bigger the power flex and the more victoriously complete the indoctrination probably seems to a FW. It’s like Winston Smith sitting at the Chestnut Tree Cafe tracing “2 + 2 = 5” on the table at the end of Nineteen Eighty-Four.

And like they say, every accusation from an abuser is a confession. I think FW’s need to jujitsu accusations of “perversion” and sexual coercion reflected his own creepiness and the fact that what he was doing was a kind of protracted rape. The blameshifting should have been obvious but the weapon he used to keep me pinned in place was so brain-melting that it banished all rational thought. He’d started making not-so-veiled threats to cast me as nuts and “unfit” and take custody of the kids away every time I called out his shitty behavior during the affair and threatened to leave. Mitigating circumstances made this feel like the ultimate thumb trap. Long story short, I’d quit work ten years before to care for and educate my chronically ill, disabled middle child full time after he was physically abused by school staff. Furthermore, I’d had to fight the school district, state and FW’s narcy mother’s accusations of “educational neglect” to do it. I already felt like I was under siege for parenting choices and FW played directly on that fear. He seemed to hold all the cards and I stopped sleeping.

Before this, I never thought FW was capable of being so evil. The more exhausted, stressed and sick I became, the more “grounds” it felt like FW had to cast me as “unfit.” Even accusing me of sexual coercion was more hostage taking: “She forced me to have sex, yer honor! I can’t leave my children with such a monster!” Never mind that he outweighed me by more than fifty pounds and I had no history of aggression or even mental illness, he seemed so invested in his bs that I feared everyone would believe him. After that, I sank into an inert little puddle of paralyzed despair for a couple months until an attorney friend snapped me out of it. I explained to the friend what was going on and what I was being accused of and she started chuckling and said, “Oh right, yeah sure, you’re such a monster. Look, he’s cheating. I’ve seen it a million times.” She explained that when someone preemptively threatens to take child custody, it’s usually because they’re doing something so terrible that it could realistically put their own custody of children at risk. She strongly advised me to hire a PI to turn the tables. She also warned that, when a disabled child is in the picture, a typical side dish maneuver to hang onto the cheater’s money and avoid child support as well as to avoid being saddled with caring for a “defective” child is to rally the cheater to take full custody and then stick the disabled kid in institutional state care on a waiver. That put the fear of God in me. I went underground and started digging for dirt, gathering evidence and lining up ducks. My friend was right. The facts made FW look like a terrible parent, not to mention a terrible human being. Suddenly, what formerly would have been worst news in the world was the best news possible.

After D-Day, I learned the creepy backstory of the February massacre. Because FW had decided to go on a family vacation over Valentine’s Day which left the AP only the dreaded and humiliating “side chick Valentine’s Day,” she went into a rage and staged a temporary “breakup” to punish him, likely in the hopes of expediting divorce. Since the AP had been increasingly consumed with FW continuing to have “marital sex,” FW understood what was expected. He ramped up the cruelty over Valentine’s Day as a half measure to appease the angry pussy gods or something but he’d still get spooky and menacing if I talked about divorce.

In reality, I hadn’t gotten upset on the last day of vacation because he was withholding his precious sparkle dick. That was his willful interpretation. At the time he was starting to repel me– the booze-induced bad breath, beer belly and himbo clothes he started wearing– bleah. Instead I was crying because I felt like a hostage who’d just learned no one was going to pay the ransom. The cue that he might no longer have “sexual use” for me took away whatever tiny remaining assurance I had that he wouldn’t escalate the viciousness and destroy me.

I think it saddled me with an extra sense of shame that I’d gotten hogtied an entrapped despite the fact that I’d formerly worked as an advocate for domestic violence survivors. Being familiar with red flags and abuse tactics but still finding yourself unable to bust out feels like being half anesthetized on an operating table where you can feel every cut but are too paralyzed to stop it. But it dawned on me that the model for domestic abuse I’d learned back in the day was flawed and incomplete and I realize I wasn’t really that well prepared. I just thought I was because everyone else thought they were. At the time, experts generally assumed that verbal threats and psychological coercion were merely overkill and that what really entrapped survivors within abuse was overt violence. Or it was thought that only the overt violence gave real “credence” to verbal coercion which otherwise might seem empty.

That seems so stupidly wrong now. At least the rest of the world is slowly waking up. There’s currently a worldwide campaign to add coercive control statutes to existing domestic violence laws and policies because it’s finally being recognized that psychological coercion is the key to entrapment in domestic abuse even more than physical violence. It may still be a few decades before the world recognizes that cheating is part and parcel with criminal coercive control.

However long it takes the world to catch up, I’m enjoying the glorious freedom to say, “Two and two make four, motherfucker” over and over.

Weedfree
Weedfree
9 months ago

HOAC on the coercive control law reform – I live in a State of Australia that introduced the first criminal justice response to DV in 2004, based on the Duluth Model from the US. We have had emotional abuse as a stand alone offence for almost 20 years, but it is rarely prosecuted unless coupled with overt violence. A bare minimum is verbal abuse, documented (text or recording). It is hard to prosecute something not visible and satisfy the mental element “knew or ought to have known” where the myth of “lack of insight” is still the dominant narrative.
I routinely raise emotional abuse in applications for protective orders, but it isnt enough by itself because orders have to be enforceable by police, and how do police stop someone from doing something not visible to anyone but the victim, and often the victim doesnt know they are being abused (although no contact orders work obviously).
The Hannah Clarke Coronial was interesting as the conclusion was nothing could have been done to stop Rowan Baxter murdering her despite the fact there were multiple missed opportunities by services and police.
Anyway, your ex is a freak who sucks.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
9 months ago
Reply to  Weedfree

Are there strict laws on recording without consent in Australia? Some states in the US make it a felony which makes it more difficult to gather evidence of CC, not to mention domestic violence. That’s a wrinkle. Another is that, even with sufficient enforcement of coercive control laws, chumps who “sleuth” to protect themselves from cheating could be falsely charged.

weedfree
weedfree
9 months ago

It is usually a defence if protecting your lawful interests but varies from State to State – in any event when someone is charged it has to be in the public interest, and I very much doubt a victim recording being abused would lead to charges, but I havent checked the case law – stalking is a more likely charge if you are hacking accounts, GPS tracking FWs etc as suggested sometimes by posters on SI to find out whether FWs are meeting up with APs – another reason just to sever ties instead of playing infidelity police.

Misidentification of offenders is a big issue, getting worse for some reason, maybe because victims are fighting back, or perps are getting more cunning, or police are just daft – police have an incident based response rather than looking at context (for various reasons, including lack of time but also training) – Queensland has just changed their legislation so the primary aggressor is identified, although I am sure the system will still get it wrong .

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
9 months ago
Reply to  weedfree

Part of the issue is obviously how laws are written. Great quote from GK Chesterton,:“If you let loose a law, it will do as a dog does. It will obey its own nature, not yours. Such sense as you have put into the law (or the dog) will be fulfilled. But you will not be able to fulfill a fragment of anything you have forgotten to put into it.”

I’m concerned that certain things will deliberately be left out of CC laws (by FWitty legislators) so they can be used as tools for punishing victims or limiting what victims– including chumps– can do to protect themselves, like gathering intel from phones, etc. In the US, proving infidelity isn’t only important in “fault divorce” states where it can impact settlement. It’s also important in “no fault” states for tracking the cost of affairs and making sure stolen marital assets are returned to chumped partners and kids. In CA, chumped spouses have managed to go after schmoopies to retrieve the value of gifts paid for with marital assets. Proving infidelity can also support tort claims for STD infections.

Even the best abuse laws still have the “fox in the hen house” problem that policing as a profession tends to draw a very high statistical percentage of domestic abusers like many helping/rescuing professions (batterers like to play “hero” as part of the protection racket effect) and those involving aggression (violent sports, military). Mandatory DV arrest laws in the US weren’t just meant to correct victims dropping charges but police refusing to arrest and DA’s refusing to prosecute. Dual arrest laws have too often become a tool for police and perpetrators to punish victims for reporting.

Even US states that make it a felony to record without consent have a “public interest” loophole but in some places this is impossible to evoke. It’s going to take organized agitation to change these policies. Stealth recording is so critical to prosecuting DV and other crimes (like workplace harassment, school and institutional abuse of children and the disabled, etc.) that the places where two party consent is mandated are paradise for perps.

All the problems in legislation and enforcement make my head hurt and make me want to crawl into a hole but giving up and accepting systemic flaws and gaps aren’t options. Another quote from GK Chesterton: “What is wrong [with the world] is that we do not ask what is right.”

Nothing is more important than this: advocacy can’t even help the individual if it doesn’t have a radical lack of acceptance of a dysfunctional status quo. Sort of by default, the particular approach of the advocacy organization I worked with years ago didn’t just help liberate survivors but also tended to breed fresh activists. The organization had the freedom to do that because it didn’t depend on state funding. Shelters and DV advocacy organizations that took state funding naturally couldn’t include radicalization (God forbid) as part of the process and would be forced to depoliticize issues which I think hobbled the effort.

It’s hard to explain but politicizing domestic abuse is simply necessary to the goal of individually propelling people out of abuse situations. I don’t just mean politicizing in a feminist sense, though I wouldn’t shy away from the latter. But it’s bigger than that– more a war against perpetrator mentality and any kind of abuse of power, cover up, etc. It’s Solzhenitsyn in the Gulag Archipelago, Daniel Ellsberg leaking the Pentagon Papers, Steven Biko fighting Apartheid, Kathryn Bolkovac exposing UN contractors for sex trafficking, etc. Those aren’t exaggerated analogies when it comes to domestic abuse. There was a famous DV researcher and advocate who’d formerly worked for the FBI’s Organized Crime division who said that switching from one specialty to the other was a “seamless transfer” to the degree that batterers– who seem to instinctively gravitate to positions of power where they can somehow silence victims– collectively behave like a crime syndicate complete with legions of lackeys, informants and facilitators. So, like the uprising to tear down the Berlin Wall, terrified people fighting for individual rights against an organized informant racket need the sense they’re part of something bigger for the sense of “safety in numbers” as well as how this gives meaning to experiences that otherwise might seem crushingly meaningless. Rather than coaching survivors to resignedly accept bad policies and poor enforcement as insurmountable realities, we would prepare survivors to deal with sucky laws or enforcement by sharing the history of how and why those laws and policies sucked. It would piss people off and fire them up. I think this did more than just buffering survivors against potential discouraging pitfalls in the process of seeking protection and justice but would help put people into a sneaky, underground (and sometimes fun) mentality of getting around pitfalls.

There’s something so mind-blowing, humbling and inspiring watching someone who was formerly beaten down into a prostrate, depressed lump start to rise up like a phoenix. One of our former “clients” went on a rampage in Alaska using humor and shock tactics to raise awareness and change policies and another survivor was on Nancy Grace after a take-down of her politically prominent abuser (she used stealth recordings to expose him). No one could have predicted this considering the shape these two women were in when they first showed up. You can never underestimate the meek again after that, especially because people fighting for their lives and their kids seem to tap into some hidden human IQ reserve and often show sudden flashes of genius. I don’t know what accounts for it other than some hardwired human tendency to make ourselves as dumb as our social contexts if doing so makes us “fit in” to facilitate survival. But change the concept of the social context to include like-minded “legions” in a political sense and minds suddenly expand to that new bar if doing so will aid survival.

Anyway, (blah blah blah, I do go on) if CC laws in their current forms are sucky and poorly enforced, I don’t think we should be “reasonable” and accept this as the necessary state of things even if we’re not directly involved in lobbying for legislation and are just trying to help individuals.

Weedfree
Weedfree
9 months ago
Reply to  Weedfree

If you are interested, the Doreen Langham case is another one to look at around police response to CC.

OHFFS
OHFFS
9 months ago

“He’d started making not-so-veiled threats to cast me as nuts and “unfit” and take custody of the kids away every time I called out his shitty behavior during the affair and threatened to leave. Mitigating circumstances made this feel like the ultimate thumb trap. Long story short, I’d quit work ten years before to care for and educate my chronically ill, disabled middle child full time after he was physically abused by school staff. Furthermore, I’d had to fight the school district, state and FW’s narcy mother’s accusations of “educational neglect” to do it. I already felt like I was under siege for parenting choices and FW played directly on that fear. He seemed to hold all the cards and I stopped sleeping.”

Oh my gosh, that must have been torture! He’s evil incarnate.

“That put the fear of God in me. I went underground and started digging for dirt, gathering evidence and lining up ducks. My friend was right. The facts made FW look like a terrible parent, not to mention a terrible human being. Suddenly, what formerly would have been worst news in the world was the best news possible.”

👏 What an inspiring story. I hadn’t heard all these details before.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
9 months ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Thank you. Tables turned and he was completely fucked.

marissachump
marissachump
9 months ago

Holy shit I’m so sorry.

“The time I burst into tears after FW avoided sex for the entire week following Valentine’s Day was apparently “sexual coercion” on my part– i.e., attempted rape! Meanwhile, his demanding sex for more than a year under circumstances where I would have refused had I known the truth– that he was rawdogging the office doorknob and exposing me to God knows what, racking up credit card debt equivalent to the kids’ college funds, secretly drinking himself into psychosis, etc.– was somehow not “sexual agency robbing”?”

His accusation is projection and then some. You are allowed to have feelings when being rejected. Totally normal and healthy. He, however, was having “sex” with you under false pretenses under which you would not have consented. That’s rape.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
9 months ago
Reply to  marissachump

Thank you kindly. I still feel relieved every time anyone “exonerates” me from the charges and points out the projection. I may feel like that for the rest of my life. I’ve probably dodged sexual assault half a dozen times since the age of ten (independent and loved doing things on my own + creep magnet) and if there’s a single common denominator in any of those experiences, it’s the bizarre feeling of being tried, found guilty and lined up against a wall for something unspeakable. Rapey types seem to have this super-amped investment in the idea that their victims are “asking for it,” “like it,” are “causing it” and “deserve it” that’s hard to shake off no matter how much your rational mind knows two and two make four, not five. Their commitment to their own projections is so intense that it’s spellbinding. Forever after, you feel yourself heave a sigh of relief when people remind you you couldn’t have done anything to cause it.

The spellbinding commitment to delusional projections should sound familiar to every chump. Cheaters often seem so convinced chumps had it coming. It makes me wonder if cheating bear some weird motivational overlap with rape, even when women do it?

OHFFS
OHFFS
9 months ago
Reply to  marissachump

💯% Marissa.

Angro
Angro
9 months ago

I missed a flight once. Caught the next one out a couple hours later. It wasn’t a big deal at the time.

So I was dumbfounded when he brought it up, repeatedly, months later as evidence I “wasn’t perfect either.”

Also: It “wasn’t his fault” that I’d “already gone to college.” Still don’t know what that means. Damn my tiny lady brain.

IcanseeTuesday
IcanseeTuesday
9 months ago

I remember using the phrase “false equivalency” and then wondering if he knew what it meant. Or cared what it meant.

The OW taught him a brand-new phrase : “disparage.” Apparently, that’s how I treated him. But, you know, that was just another false equivalency.