I Told Her He Cheated and She Married Him Anyway
She sent a cheater’s fiancé evidence of his cheating and the woman married him anyway. Now what?
***
Dear Chump Lady,
I had a long-distance thing with a guy who jerked me around for about a year. I thought we loved each other. He flew me out to see him. A week later I found out he was seeing someone else and hiding her from me.
I cut him off.
Then he visited across the country and told me, “I don’t even use that word to describe her” when I asked about this apparent girlfriend. He then told me that he still jerked off to my Facebook and Google images.
“Not the ones where you look like you’re in college, though.” I googled myself later. I was in college in all of them.
But I was a depressed, weak person and kept talking to him. We hooked up a few months later. Then he told me he wouldn’t tell his GF and blamed me for wearing leggings when he drove 4 hours to see me while I was at a work training and got to my hotel at midnight.
Apparently, I seduced him.
I cut him off after that. For a strong 4 months. Then my work moved me to his location (it was a work commitment he knew about). Once I got there, he emailed me on the work email (I had blocked him on everything else). I succumbed like a needy, insecure little bitch. We talked on the phone for an hour, he visited my office, then he sent me multiple unsolicited selfies when I unblocked him and his apartment address. (Which I did not ask for.) Two days after the selfies he announced his engagement online.
I sent his fiancé screenshots of the selfies, and previous convo where he said he would not tell her he cheated.
She told me not to contact her again and they got MARRIED the following day.
Now he tells everyone at work that I’m a crazy bitch who moved there for him… even though he told me to put in for that assignment when I thought he was single. Low key I can’t even be mad about that part. My fault for being sloppy. When we occasionally cross paths we both act like the other does not exist.
But did I do the right thing by telling?
J
****
Dear J,
Easy part first — yes, telling the chump was the right thing to do. Golden rule: you’d want to know if it was you, wouldn’t you? What she does with that information, however, is her business. You don’t control the outcome.
She married him anyway.
From her perspective, you’re not exactly a reliable narrator. You’re the person who was fucking her boyfriend. She probably took it as the opening salvo for an smackdown pick-me dance. Which she “won” by marrying the jerk.
Why people think matrimony confers respectability on unethical people, I have no idea…
Anyway, this is a sad story. She’s making a terrible mistake marrying this douchebag, but let’s pivot over to your terrible mistakes, okay? Bitchslaps are what I’m here for.
I had a long-distance thing with a guy who jerked me around for about a year. I thought we loved each other.
People who “love” you don’t jerk you around. Only jerks jerk you around. Why did you invest in a jerk?
Discuss. In therapy.
I cut him off. Then he visited across the country and told me, “I don’t even use that word to describe her” when I asked about this apparent girlfriend.
Asking him about his girlfriend is not cutting him off. Geo-locating him somewhere across country is not cutting him off. “Visiting” is not cutting him off.
There is no “cutting him off” described here.
Oh, and people who don’t describe their girlfriends as girlfriends are not to be coveted. This is as good as it’s going to get. No one is special. Avoid all the nebulous “it’s complicated” freaks.
It’s not complicated. He can’t commit. And he enjoys the air of mindfuck mystery.
He then told me that he still jerked off to my Facebook and Google images.
Charming. What an honor.
But I was a depressed, weak person and kept talking to him. We hooked up a few months later.
J, you sound young. You realize there is an entire planet of people to hook with who aren’t him, right? RIGHT?
Ask yourself why you’d continue with someone so unworthy?
Why THIS guy? You determined he was unavailable and this was unacceptable and then you sold yourself out. Explore that.
Depressed and weak are not excuses. Eat ice cream. Bench press things. Buy pine cone elves. (Works for me.) See a health professional. Sleeping with a fuckwit will not make you happier or stronger.
Then he told me he wouldn’t tell his GF
The one he doesn’t have? Do you enjoy conspiring against an innocent person?
blamed me for wearing leggings when he drove 4 hours to see me while I was at a work training and got to my hotel at midnight. Apparently, I seduced him.
You agreed to a bootie call.
Leggings are beside the point. Bootie calls don’t have dress codes.
I cut him off after that. For a strong 4 months. Then my work moved me to his location (it was a work commitment he knew about).
J, you later tell us you put in for the assignment. Again, this is NOT cutting him off or being strong. It’s inviting yourself back into his orbit.
Pick me, pick me, pick me…
Once I got there, he emailed me on the work email (I had blocked him on everything else). I succumbed like a needy, insecure little bitch.
Okay, you know what? There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be desired. Or being needy. We’re human. We bond. And fuck and spoon. And send cute hedgehog videos to one another.
The problem here is focusing on THIS twerp. Competing for a cheater’s attention. Thinking it’s special. You KNOW it’s easy. You know that he will pursue, and violate boundaries, and drive four hours for an easy fuck because that’s who he is. A very easy, un-special lay.
And somehow from that morass, you want it to turn into Love.
Surely, a guy who jerks off to your picture, and chases you down, and shares his apartment address with you is someone who CARES.
He may not be deep, but he’s reliably interested and I’m sure his matrimonial status won’t change that one bit.
Quit deluding yourself.
We talked on the phone for an hour, he visited my office, then he sent me multiple unsolicited selfies when I unblocked him and his apartment address. (Which I did not ask for.)
You unblocked him. So, yes, you essentially asked for the entire sewer pipe.
I sent his fiancé screenshots of the selfies, and previous convo where he said he would not tell her he cheated. She told me not to contact her again and they got MARRIED the following day.
You may not have had honorable intentions. It probably stung, and you probably wanted to lash out — and it doesn’t matter. It’s still better that she knows. But do not contact her again.
Now he tells everyone at work that I’m a crazy bitch who moved there for him… even though he told me to put in for that assignment when I thought he was single.
You did sort of move there for him, but really who cares what he thinks? If I were you, I’d be looking for a new job. Why be surrounded by this kind of drama daily?
Low key I can’t even be mad about that part. My fault for being sloppy.
This isn’t a sloppy problem — this is a character problem. Figure out who you are and what you stand for. When you cut off some guy for not measuring up? FINISH THE JOB. He possesses a girlfriend, or girlfriend-like-substance? NEXT. And mean it. Don’t circle back. Don’t be some Other Woman nitwit. He wants to tell you about his jerk-off habits? — all the nopes. Get a fog horn.
“I like to wank to girl’s college lacrosse!”
AAAAHHH-LooOOOOOOO-GAAAAH.
NO.
NO. CONTACT.
Do better, J. End it with this creep.
I so agree with CL. This guy is messing with you (and his wife/GF/victim) & that sucks because we all want to be special to someone, but he ain’t it….but you’re letting him too. I see women who cut men off at the knees when they start jerking them around. And yet, I see other women who repeatedly take back those same jerks. The difference? One won’t lower their bar of how someone should treat them (even if he’s handsome/rich/smart/sexy/whatever) & the other will. Why? Probably because they learned to do it along the way. Maybe Dad or Grandpa or Mom was sometimes (often?) a jerk & you had to put up with their bad behaviour to get what you needed from them. Anywho, like CL said, therapy is a great place to explore that. I hope you raise your bar & leave this guy in the past.
At least the new wifey knows and she will eventually figure it out. She now will have it in the back of her mind. That’s all you can do. Don’t ever let anyone use you like that again. You are better than that.
It’s hard when you have poor boundaries and low self-esteem. I think pretty much everyone who’s been on Chump Lady has experienced both.
But yeah – ambivalence is your enemy.
Learn to read those sexy tingles as DANGER.
Not, “oooo, a potential life partner.”
DANGER.
Your gut has been screaming at you to get out, ever since you ‘met’ this guy online. Learn to listen to it.
And don’t be too hard on yourself!
It’s a fact: if you didn’t have weak boundaries and low self-esteem before you met FW, you’ll definitely have them once he’s worked his destruction on you. It is your job to rebuild and build back better.
J,
Two thoughts: firstly, you need to know (not think, but really know) that you are worth more than anything that this assh*le has to offer you and; secondly, when (and I mean when and not if) things get rocky between him and his wife, that he’s likely to circle back to you ….. this is when you need to remember my first point and stay no contact/not engage.
LFTT
I doubt he will wait until things get rocky. I think sometimes when there is no drama in a relationship these FWs go looking for something exciting elsewhere.
But excellent advice LFTT, as always, about how to deal with these yahoos.
Great advice! This prick seems like the hoovering type. He’ll come sniffing around again. Don’t succumb to the flattery. “Shields up!” as CL would say. And NC is your best shield.🛡️
J, I’m guessing you’re not long out of college and in your 20s? Because you sound a lot like me when I was in my mid-20s and newly discovered what codependency was. It was my time for learning about abusive relationships and then going to therapy and working towards doing better.
As CL said, learn who you really are. Take a hard stance against continuing any relationships with cheaters and users. And focus on fixing your picker so that your next relationship is a healthy good one. That’s not to say you won’t possibly still end up back here, but you will not be contributing to hurting someone else by knowingly dating cheaters.
You got this. Many of us have been through this hard lesson too.
And btw… fuck that guy. He’s going to leave a trail a misery. Stay far away.
He married his fiancé. I’m assuming they were together during the long distance relationship you had together.
His investment with you J was shallow and meaningless. That stings. Why would she marry him after you forwarded evidence? He’s a believable con artist cheater who controls the narrative.
His new wife will now serve as his appliance. Her future will be filled with other women who hit on Mr Irresistible. Of course they too will be crazy.
The dealbreaker moment was when you found out he had a girlfriend who turned out to be a fiancé.
It sounds like J wanted an exclusive relationship.
The dealbreaker should have been when he was jerking her around.
The next dealbreaker should have been when he was with someone else NOT when she found out he was getting married.
It sounds to me like J told this woman the day before her wedding. Was it a shotgun wedding or was J trying to win the pick me dance? That’s a jerk move.
Be better J. Stand up for what you deserve and be a woman of integrity.
I agree that telling the day before the wedding may have inflicted maximum pain but wasn’t helpful or decent. The fiancee wasn’t the person who betrayed her, it was the fake-boyfriend. Timing the reveal like she did was a move that should be reserved for people who hurt you, not your fellow-betrayed.
You wrote to the right person and the right group. This is the place for a sweet 2 by 4, and a lot of wisdom. Please re-read, as often as you need to, everything Tracy wrote. That FW is an incidental hornet whose sting is gone and you can move on. It was a true learning experience, painful, but very educational. It has taught you to look for red flags and pay attention to them and then run.
His wife will eventually see him for what he is but by then she might have kids with him and I cannot imagine what her life will be like but, fortunately, it will not be yours.
It has taken me decades to reach the conclusion that statements like “I masturbate and fantasize about you”, and “I just can’t control myself when I’m around you”, and “I remember how hot you were back when (insert objectifying comment such as something about youth or body or body-part size or an article of clothing here)”, aren’t actually compliments.
They’re meant to sound like compliments, but in reality, they are huge red flags that the person thinks of me as a blow up doll who offers the bonuses of a wallet, a built-in maid and errand service, the inability to deflate at critical moments, and the glory of centrality in another human being’s world. I’m just a toy in the toybox, available when they want to pull me out, discardable when I get boring, repeat ad infinitum.
One of the great joys of my life is no longer caring whether objectifiers think I’m desirable. I now have zero moments in life when I wonder if I’m sexually good/attractive enough for any person who would rather wank to bizarre imagery — and noodle around with less emotional intelligence than an average grade schooler — than experience the immersed delight of sharing time and pleasure with another mature, connected, present, available human being. I’d rather spend one sweet moment with someone who values my humanity than any amount of time with someone who views me like a dog views a snausage.
So much of how these jerks reel us in is by recognizing our fear that we’re unattractive, flattering us just enough to make us feel special, then punching us in the gut at varying intensities and intervals over time to ensure we’re both never confident we’re worthy and always ripe to be reeled back in with more strategically timed flattery.
One huge key to breaking the cycle is recognizing useless flattery.
Another is learning and embracing your human value so strongly that nobody can ever again convince you it isn’t there.
We are all human beings, born to this earth inherently worthy of the beauty and possibility and hope humanity offer when good people surround us. That isn’t what we always get, but it is ALWAYS what a precious new human deserves when joining the rest of us on this planet. Part of growing up is selecting our own actions (hopefully as people who do good in the world) AND our own partners through life (in all forms) as well as we can. We don’t have control over all the relationships we must navigate, bit we sure as hell do have control over the optional ones.
The more we can grow into people who only accept good optional ones, the better.
Let’s keep fixing our pickers!
“I’d rather spend one sweet moment with someone who values my humanity than any amount of time with someone who views me like a dog views a snausage.”
And this is why the online dating world is frightening – it is absolutely chock-full of dogs looking for snausages. I wish there were ways for us to mark ourselves for other like-minded people. Maybe a code word or something? Sadly it’s usually just walking face first into a red flag pole and having to see it for what it is.
Recognizing useless flattery. A sentence for the ages. Brilliant!!!
FW told me, months and months after we separated, when he was most definitely “with” OW, that he still jerked off to videos of me (he was big on homemade porn – which I always hated doing). He wanted to know if I thought it was hot. I said yes (pick me, pick me!), but in reality I was skeeved out. I never told OW, because she wouldn’t have believed me anyway (nor would she have cared, most likely, since she stuck around through our wreckonciliation, so clearly him having sex with me was not a deal breaker for her). Yeah, I agree with you. It’s not a compliment. FW never saw me as a person, just a tool that was useful to him and just as easily replaced when he saw something new and shiny.
He also denied she was his girlfriend, when I asked him directly. I never told her that either. They weren’t officially “dating” until about 3 1/2 years into the affair.
It’s taken time, but I have grown into a person who will only accept good relationships, and I am very skeptical of flattery or grand gestures now. (I actually have no interest in dating at all. I’ve never been happier than when I’m single.)
💯 They always deny they’re the girlfriend, despite the obvious truth, and literally everyone around them knowing. 🙄
Personally, I’ve grown to perceive describing things and people as “hot” as off-putting. Seems like people mostly use that wording when objectifying others. I’ve used it myself plenty, but nowadays inside my head its meaning has shifted from “attractive” or “arousing” to something more like “designed to elicit an arousal response” combined with “distracting to render the viewer more exploitable.” Once seen, can’t unsee.
(Not everyone will feel this way and I’m not asking you to feel my way about it. I’ve just grown tired of the BS of societal hotness and shifted over to clearly preferring positive human interactive experiences.)
Flattery and grand gestures without some kind of actual base of substance is a complete turn off to me. All I can think is “what does this person want from me?”
CL is correct – you sound young. Take the time to establish your interests and community IN REAL LIFE. It’s part of fixing your picker and provides healthy opportunities for meeting people who share your values. And, hopefully, finding a new job.
This guy is merely being who he is and will continue as long as the right women are available.
The fact that you said you were a depressed and weak person pursuing him is the problem. This was his cue you were the right person for the exploit.
Continue working on yourself until you feel better about yourself and can discern those that will exploit you. Take time away from dating and relationships until you know yourself and what you need from others to be in a quality relationship.
J, the only “right thing” you did in this story was to tell the now-wife of the cheater, regardless of your intentions.
But you had agency here. You knew he had some kind of relationship and you continued to engage with him. That you were complicit in causing pain to another human and even went through with the job transfer speaks volumes about you.
He’s not the only villain in the story, and you were his accomplice. You show no remorse for the pain you helped to cause, and I can’t understand people who are fine being in a relationship with someone who has already committed to someone else.
Today is one of many DDay “anniversaries” for me. After finally getting out of the marriage, I’m still trying to figure out why it took me so long.
Hopefully, the wife will get out before she experiences a fraction of what so many other people have been through here.
Yes, agree. J, needs to fix her character. She’s here so a part of her must know that.Someone once told me to level-up then! in a no-nonsense voice (when I was being a whiny bitch on the fence about something) and it was the kick-in-the-ass simplest answer/advice that I needed. Your post reminds me of that☺️
Oldcrone, I came here to say many of the same things you have written here. This is a typical ow letter but she’s “young”. Blech!
Yes, walk away. Choose low-drama, trustworthy people for your inner circle.
Gosh, it took me so very long to get that. I was post-divorce before I could draw the lines and step away from people. Our kids (20-somethings now) got it long before I did and had been begging me to leave him during their teen years. In a way, it all worked out because I didn’t have custody issues, but their childhood was chaotic.
Is it just me, or is there something about the story that doesn’t seem to add up? I’m confused.
Was the letter writer aware of the non-girlfriend/friend when she was with this guy? Was she the OW?
I feel sorry for the girlfriend/now-wife. No doubt she’ll be a chump soon. But the OP doesn’t show any empathy for the wife; instead, she criticizes her for not booting the guy when she saw those cheater-revealing selfies and conversations on the day before the wedding.
I sort of buy that she wanted to warn her, which is good, but I also am getting Tanya Harding vibes (a knee capping by screenshot).
TL;DR: shitty situation overall. I feel sorry for the soon-to-be chump. And I hope this is a learning experience for the seemingly very young letter writer who may have been the (unwitting?) OW.
I’ve been thinking the same.
I hope the letter writer learns from this experience:
1) You don’t continue seeing someone if they have a girlfriend/spouse.
2) Someone who is dating while married or has a girlfriend isn’t someone you can trust.
3) People with integrity end a relationship before beginning a new one.
Yep. She has excuse after excuse for why she kept falling back in bed with this guy (unflattering excuses, but still) and yet doesn’t understand why the fiancé wouldn’t cancel her wedding THE DAY BEFORE IT WAS SCHEDULED because some rando passed along screenshots. Not just doesn’t understand, but rather thinks less of her for following through. The fiancé’s life was way more entangled with the asshat’s than the letter writer’s. She should have told the GF/fiancé way earlier on. Waiting makes it look like an act of retribution rather than a kind warning.
I guess I’ll be the contrarian today. The letter writer is an OW. That’s an established, admitted fact. Personally, I don’t understand why she gets a pass because she sounds like she’s in her early twenties. I knew better than this when I was in my early twenties. My children know better than this and they are all in their twenties. This person’s letter demonstrates no desire to change or to better herself. It demonstrates no remorse for the pain she knowingly caused the then’girlfriend, now-wife, once she found out that she was a side piece. Instead, she just makes excuses for herself and her behavior and choices, and refuses to accept any consequences , and just wants to blame someone else. Kind of sounds like a typical OW and/or cheater to me.
She’s not going to grow out of this. Make the syntax and word choices a little more mature, and this letter could have been written by a 40-year-old OW, or a 60-year-old OW (or OM). If this letter writer had cut things off after she found out that she was an OW, I would have a very different opinion. But with everything that she herself reports, I’m digging deep within myself and really not finding any sympathy, and I’m okay with that. The person who I really hope finds CL and this wonderful community of chumps is the new wife!
I totally agree with you, HN! And, the cherry on top that she is the OW is it’s clear this relationship was centered around their work. She was transferred to HIS location but sounds like a different department. She clearly states that he tells her co-workers that she is crazy. How would he be engaging with her co-workers if he doesn’t work for the same company? J is just mad that she lost and now he is doing a smear campaign on her to cover up his mess. Hopefully the new chump wife will find us sooner than later.
I hope J gets therapy or does some serious self reflection when she is over the cheater. As of right now she clearly is still obsessing about this jerk and not thinking straight. Right after she found out he had a girlfriend she should have cut ties, period. Supposedly she blocked him, however, he emailed her at the new job, in his town, which tells me she somehow let him know she was close by. As for relocating for the job, she tried to blame the cheater (he asked that she be assigned to his area) but J had full control over that move. I’m not sure I would label J as an OW (not enough info) but J’s actions do parallel the typical OW modus operandi.
Agreed! I thought the same thing while reading: the OP seems to be falling all over herself to stay in this FWs life…and bed. Youth is no excuse for being a willing OW. All my sympathy is with the wife.
You’re not being contrarian, HN. You’re absolutely right.
Perfectly said, Happy Now!
He sounds super gross. Years from now, she will look back on her time spent with him and cringe.
I get the feeling that she sent the screenshots with the hope that the gf would dump him and she’d win. And to CL’s point she offered herself up as a cheap booty call knowing who he was.
She does sound young. I hope she learns from this and conducts herself as the person she wants to be going forward.
As for the now wife, she’s married to a piece of shit. You’re much better off then she is.
On a second read of this letter, it seems to me that the “chump” exposed this lying, cheating FW as a way of trying to get him back, hoping his fiancé would dump him and she’d swoop in. If she hadn’t relocated on purpose, I would give her more slack. As it is, I see her trying to undermine his relationship every step of the way. Of course the FW is gobbling up kibbles as fast as his he can, but I don’t view her with much sympathy.
Yes, the relocating to his town after she found out he had a girlfriend gave me pause as well. J can say she blocked him, went no contact, etc. but she still pursued him.
I agree, Lulu. But regardless of the motive, telling her was the right thing to do. Not to mention that hopefully, losing the Fuckwit Thunderdome snapped J out of her delusions about this turd.
Exhibit A for trust they suck. J, you’re an affair partner and although he’s a disgusting douche bag, you’re almost as bad….. this mentality is what contributed to the demise of my children’s’ sense of safety, my 25 year marriage, more pain and trauma than I could ever convey. For what?
Fast forward 8 years from Dday, 7.5 since I found CL and told X to GTFO, 5.5 since divorce was finalized. My daughter tells me XH offered AP $25k to leave his home — she refuses. He hired a lawyer to try to get her out of his home. Kids despise him and refuse to spend any of holidays with him because AP is still there, ruining every gathering with her immature, selfish, drunken-pill popping fueled drama. She’s filled with self pity— even had the gall to cry to my youngest that after poaching their father and our lifestyle, she hates him and fanticizes about slitting his throat in his sleep- she told my child she hates how old he is and how all her friends are getting engaged, buying their first homes, and going on honeymoons but she’s stuck with this old guy who already did all that. Did I say SELFISH?! If it didn’t hurt my kids, which it does, I’d laugh over her sheer stupidity.
She’s filled with self pity— even had the gall to cry to my youngest that after poaching their father and our lifestyle, she hates him and fanticizes about slitting his throat in his sleep- she told my child she hates how old he is and how all her friends are getting engaged, buying their first homes, and going on honeymoons but she’s stuck with this old guy who already did all that.
Telling a child she’d like to slit his throat is abuse. I’d report this psycho. It’s an unsafe environment. Always take threats seriously.
My daughter was 16 at the time. She’s 18 now. After that she never spent a minute in that house— she only sees her dad in public places and without AP present.
Well it seems after blowing up your life (and kids) your X and the OW are not living happily ever after which is typical with cheaters. The bonus is he has to sleep with one eye open because she won’t leave and is fantasizing about killing him.
Omg, your ex may be on a HLN episode one day! He’s with a loon. Looks good on him.
J,
Do not reengage with that manipulator, full no contact is essential to heal your spirit.
I know it hurts to be jerked around by these idiots, but you know with full certainty, he is not a good and faithful man. Trust already is nonexistent and he’s married, end of that game.
Why would you knowingly want that energy in your life anyway? Do you enjoy drama and chaos? Because he does and will keep you playing that game for your life, no firm ground to stand on and without trust to build a deep connection, you have nothing at all.
What you can trust is every chump who’s ever posted. This guy sucks because that’s what he is, a sucky guy! Nothing is going to change his core personality of entitlement, def not the marriage. It just gives him a better shield to carry on with his games of betrayals. And by your 30th wedding anniversary, when you couldn’t be more emotionally strung out and miserable, the string of deceits and betrayals he would have accumulated will blow your mind.
You don’t even know how lucky you are to get away from that yet, because a time would have come when it would be next to impossible to walk away. Keep reading up on narcissism, get yourself educated and stronger before you break back into the dating world. Believe you deserve more than that, because you do. Red flags to watch for in relationships should be a mandatory course offered in HS. We all would have benefited.
Yes, a big learning curve here for this young woman. Never conspire with anyone to deceive another person as CL says. Own up to your own poor choices and don’t make excuses for yourself, or you will end up a FW.
I suspect the letter writer has an underlying issue with depression and is self medicating with the drama from this guy and the intermittent relationship.
Could be. But it seems that every bit of wrong-doing is now characterized as “self-medicating.” Even cheaters say that they’re “self-medicating” with affairs. Not everyone has a mood disorder or physiological basis for their behavior. Sometimes they’re just entitled.
I think cheaters are always self-medicating, but not for depression, for the emotional and spiritual emptiness that is part of who they are. The drama of sneaking around is how they “feel alive”, as FWs so often say about how their APs make them feel. Anyone who needs to do things like that in order to feel something has a howling abyss inside of them that they need distraction from.
It’s certainly no excuse and they have other choices, like getting therapy and doing something to help others, which is an authentic way to feel alive that lasts. But of course, they lack the character amd courage to do those things.
Post Dday, when FW was trying to find other ways to cope with being an empty shell, he complained that one day spent volunteering for about six hours didn’t fix him, so he never did it again. They expect an instantaneous rush of intense pleasure, so duping and whoring around is their way.
I agree, except I think it is “Usually they are entitled” rather than sometimes.
“blamed me for wearing leggings when he drove 4 hours to see me while I was at a work training and got to my hotel at midnight. Apparently, I seduced him.”
Ah, the awe inspiring power of spandex. We all know it turns strong men to rubber. 🙄 This guy isn’t very adept with his blame-shifting.
J, you knew he had someone else and you fucked him anyway. You also knew he’s a creep who wanks to pictures of college girls and brags about it, like it confirms his he-man status or something. Or maybe he thought discussing his spooging habits with you was romantic. Gawd, why do FW men tell women about jerking off? My cheater liked to do this too. I suspect it’s about passive aggression. They don’t really believe we thrill to the thought of them rubbing baby oil on their fuckwit sticks. They’re sending us a message that we are objects, no different from the porn actresses and cam girls they jerk to. I wish I’d seen that many, many years ago.
As you see, there are consequences to fucking guys who have “non-girlfriends” other than you. I can’t work up a ton of sympathy for your situation, but you did do right by telling. His new wife is a fool, but that is not your worry. However, I would go to HR or get a lawyer to send him a cease and desist letter for spreading malicious gossip about you at work. He’s undermining you in your workplace, and that shouldn’t be tolerated.
Mine sent me selfies of his wank sessions.
Lovely 🤮
I’m struggling to find compassion for J. Sound like she’s the OW to me and trying to pass herself as a victim.
You’re upset that your cheater married someone else that you were privy to? Give me a break.
At first she was an unsuspecting chump, she became an OW the moment she learned about a “not-to-be-called-girlfriend” girlfriend. That’s when you nope it hard outta there, and she failed to do that and went back for more (more mistreatment).
Blame is still on the cheater, but that would have been her cue to go and we can only hope she learns from experience.
Wisdom is often achieved through pain and humiliation. There is a huge difference between an excuse and a reason. It took me a few decades to stumble over the difference. J, I hope you can reach this enlightening moment. Cheaters make excuses camouflaged as reasons.
Honey, I’m sorry I forgot your birthday. It was a tough day at the office! 👈🏿Excuse.
Honey, I’m sorry I forgot your birthday. My appendix ruptured and I couldn’t think straight from the pain. I’m getting discharged tomorrow. 👈🏿 Reason.
See the difference?
Dear J,
Author and political activist James Baldwin wrote that people who develop principles and strong identities are those capable of seeing “themselves in history and history in themselves.” I think you could benefit from bolstering your own sense of identity, figuring out and sharpening what you believe in and finding like-minded souls for consensus. And I have a hunch that where you might be a bit fuzzy in terms of identity and beliefs relates in part to gender roles and gender politics.
Something women in particular need to ask themselves is whether they actually have intrinsic low self esteem or whether they’ve swallowed some external, cultural, political bull about women having less value– sort of like they’re maintaining low self esteem in order to “fit in” or on the idea that “men don’t like uppity females” and they’ll spend their lives alone if they don’t stay in line and keep their belief systems floppy, flexible and generic so that their views don’t trigger social backlash. If the latter is the problem, then the problem is a political problem. Volunteering for a battered women’s shelter or otherwise getting involved in arenas where gender politics are focused on might be a good first step to inoculating yourself against any toxic cultural messages you might have absorbed and making the kinds of friends who can form a protective group that would have your back if you find yourself being exploited, victimized or inculcated again.
Political and philosophical “armature” is often formed– for better or worse– as part of a collective. The sense of not being alone in your views creates consensus with others. It’s far harder to destroy someone if they feel like they’re not truly alone, that others deeply understand what they’re going through. For the “better” type of consensus, find people who believe in something justice-oriented and bigger than themselves.
The issue of gender politics might get lost in discussions of cheating, particularly on this site because there are many male chumps. But one thing that many guy chumps’ stories have in common is the fact that she-cheaters often seem to betray “good provider/positive masculinity” types in preference for knuckle-dragging thugs. Even if the she-cheaters in these cases claimed to be “feminist,” the fact they hanker for cavemen paints them as hypocrites. In any event, there’s something about gender roles involved in most cheating and quite often in intimate abuse. Psychologist and author Frank Pittman describes some philanders as not so much hypersexual (as these cheaters fancy themselves) but hyper-gendered and having defensive, insecure and cartoon concepts of masculinity and femininity.
What made me think of the above is when I noticed that your ex-cheater/situationship dude called you a bitch and then you refer to yourself as a bitch. Adopting the language of perpetrators and perpetrators’ contempt towards their victims= internalization of abuser mentality. Whether you know it or not, you were sucked into the “moral gray zone” of internalizing the enemy’s view of yourself. Furthermore, he managed to pull you into a situation where the lines became blurred over whether you’re victim or perpetrator. And whether that asshole is conscious of it or not, doing the latter wasn’t accidental. Just because a motive is subconscious doesn’t make the individual guiltless of it. Perpetrators *need* to corrupt and inculcate their victims as part of the process of triangulation. Destroying the morality of victims is the way perps can feel better about being rotten and soulless. It’s kind of like how newly recruited mafia soldiers were ordered to kill people to guarantee the recruits’ silence. This way you’re made to feel as guilty as they are which becomes a means of controlling you and it making it harder for you to emotionally break free and move on.
Where were your friends during all of this? If you don’t have the kinds of friends who frequently do fun, blathering, cackling, shrieking “war councils” for reviewing dates (and bad bosses, narcy second cousins, that new awful bill that was passed, whatever), I would recommend getting some. And those people tend to cluster around– again– causes related to justice that are bigger than themselves. You’ll be a lot harder to pick off in the future if your surrounded by rugged, smart, supportive friends.
You might want to check out a web site for young women called FDS.com . They discuss the issues facing young dating women, and how to avoid LVM’s { low value men}. And vent alot! about their encounters. Almost all of chump nation would recognize the advice. Wish this kind of advice was available back in the 70’s and 80’s. It would have made a huge difference to a whole generation of us.
Wait, you mean Female Dating Strategy? Not sure that’s the way to go – too much risk of ending up like female Jordan Peterson/redpill fanboy.
The redpill teaches how to manipulate and abuse women. FDS is about how to avoid being manipulated and abused. World of difference.
FDS is known for warning and kicking out female incels actually. Whatever publication you read that description of FDS in, go to the publications search page and search “Esther Perel.” I did this and it was very telling.
I love that subreddit. I originally got on it because I read some press attacks on the sub, not surprisingly from the same publications that are always promoting Esther Perel and cheating as “exuberant rebellion” (gag). The criticism of the sub seemed borderline hysterical– they’re all man-haters, blah blah blah. Hmm. So I find the sub and, lo and behold, there’s nothing really that controversial. Their main things are anti-rape culture, anti-domestic abuse, anti-violent porn industry and anti-sex trafficking. So of course all the porn-invested, domestic-abuse-apologia mass media hate the group and see them as the enemy and “extremist.” For instance, Google invested a whopping $34 billion in streaming porn in 2013 and the Murdoch empire (owners of Fox News) invested a ton in porn sites as well. Since the online porn industry depends on sex trafficking of minors, I can’t imagine either media organization particularly likes groups that expose the workings of the industry.
I shared a lot of content with my teen kids. I like the message of maintaining standards in dating, using one’s twenties for self development and career development, finding partners who treat you well and pull their weight and lots of posts on lesser-known red flags for abusive partners. I think the advice not to “build-a-bear”– find a partner who isn’t cutting it and then try to improve their consciences and job prospects– is solid.
Unless all men are rapists, I can’t see how the site is anti-male/misandrist. The sub is female only but my teen sons like the political content and the lampooning of Harvey Weinstein defenders.
Nice to see other FDS fans in the wild. Heya sis.
The sub and site are “Female Dating Strategy.” There are also podcasts, some of which are hilarious and always informative.
Let him be her problem. Drop your hopium pipe or keep yourself entangled. Right now you are your biggest problem. Fix that.