My Kids Don’t Believe Their Father Cheated on Me
Her kids don’t believe that their father cheated on her. She’s trying her best to sane parent but watching her kids’ hopium about their no-show dad is breaking her heart.
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Dear Chump Lady
I am always on the lookout for posts about the teenagers/young adults. But it seems that chumps often write stuff like, “My kid doesn’t want to have anything to do with his Dad” or, another one is “they found out about the affair and were disgusted,” et cetera.
My kids, though, are not clear at all on where they stand with their dad.
He moved out and stopped most communication 4 1/2 years ago. And he has successfully hidden his double life from me and the kids to this day (I can infer it from educating myself about behaviors and patterns, and secondary clues like his multiple burner phones (!! don’t laugh at me, he had a plausible reason to have these because he was an investigative journalist) and an AMEX account that was delivered to the office and was omitted from discovery.
But of course my kids really really don’t want to hear about all that. He became what another chump brilliantly called “Uncle Dad”.
He has of course a completely different version of his behavior, some of it demonstrably, glaringly false, but the kids have hopium and don’t want to know about it and live in denial.
They are as conflicted and heartbroken as ever. His behavior is confusing. And of course, as the safe parent, they take out their anger and frustration on me. It’s awful because the misdirected anger they direct at me reminds me exactly of the way their dad acted. I thought things would get better with time, but every time he shows up, in person or in conversation, the kids go right back to searing emotional pain, years later.
We still can’t have a calm discussion about anything to do with him. The worst part is. I see them engaging in chump behavior with their dad and I can’t persuade them that he sucks! I can’t protect my daughters from being chumped by their dad and I worry they are going to recreate these patterns in their future relationships.
Who are all these women whose children have their backs and have rallied completely behind their chump parents and defend and protect them? They are so lucky. Honestly, sometimes I wonder if they’re telling the truth!
Having to deal with my conflicted, sad, in denial, confused, hurt, lashing out young adults is a trial.
It feels like I got rid of the FW but his anger and cruelty remains in my household like a virus. And my poor kids don’t have peace or resolution like these mom champions who triumphantly live in harmony with their supportive teens who see their FW dads for who they are. Like, come on! I don’t buy it.
Chumpty Dumpty
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Dear Chumpty Dumpty,
Look at any family and you’re going to find people who believe in fuckwits and people who spackle. People who character assassinate and people who rug sweep. People who believe in unconditional love, and people who practice no contact.
Where there are FWs there is chaos.
Take your own FW out of the equation for a moment. Don’t you have a racist uncle? A hoarder in-law? An addict cousin? Someone for whom the family makes excuses? That’s just how people spoke when Uncle Gary grew up. He doesn’t actually hate black people. (Yes, he actually hates black people.) Well, she’s going to clean that basement, but she’s never been the same since Herbert died. (She’s never going to clean that basement, she has an untreatable mental illness.) Karen used to like to party, but she’s sober now. (Karen stole your identity.)
No one likes to believe that anyone — especially those closest to them — is irredeemable.
Which often means ignoring a lot of evidence to the contrary. It’s natural to want stability and normalcy. And when you have an agent of chaos throwing a spanner in the works, people try to steady things. That says more about them than the FW. It says they believe in their superpowers of persuasion. Or they’re avoiding a wall of pain. Or they’re simply EXHAUSTED. (Exhaustion being a FW tactic.)
Think of how long it took you to figure out your ex was a FW.
They’re just kids. And they have a primal bond with their FW parent. I know that feels unjust. I write about this a lot because it is so painful and unjust. It takes a LOT to fall out of love with anyone (unless you’re a FW, in which case it comes quite easily). Normal humans BOND. Children bond. You bonded and I’m sure you absolutely spackled.
A little spackle isn’t a bad thing. We all have to overlook each other’s flaws and mistakes to maintain relationships with one another. The problem is false equivalencies. There are flaws and then there is abandoning your children. There are mistakes and there are deliberate double lives.
From where your children sit, he only hurt YOU.
Did he cheat on you? He says he didn’t. And even if he did, we live in a world where most people don’t find that terribly offensive. The Heart Wants What the Heart Wants. You would never, ever wish that pain on them. A loving parent would never want them to experience a betrayal that would make them understand. They don’t have the life experience to understand. They don’t have years of shared investment, or know what it is to have a child or a mortgage with another person. To be that intertwined and dependent or vulnerable.
Your pain is scary to them.
Children and even young adults need you to be the sane parent. (Is that fair? No, of course it isn’t.) You have one no-show Uncle Daddy, so stability is riding on YOU. You don’t have the luxury of falling apart. Which is why it’s so important to find support elsewhere and not slop your grief on minors. They cannot carry your grief, they’ve got their own.
He has of course a completely different version of his behavior, some of it demonstrably, glaringly false, but the kids have hopium and don’t want to know about it and live in denial.
Their relationship with their father is their business. You do you. And if they try to make it your business, like casually bringing up what an awesome person Dad is, you shut that down. The corollary to “their relationship with the FW is their business” is you get to have boundaries. Change the subject.
He moved out and stopped most communication 4 1/2 years ago.
He’s doing a terrific job convincing your children that he’s a FW. Dude does not need an assist.
They are as conflicted and heartbroken as ever. His behavior is confusing.
Be the sane, show-up parent. Your actions demonstrate your values. His actions demonstrate his.
And of course, as the safe parent, they take out their anger and frustration on me. It’s awful because the misdirected anger they direct at me reminds me exactly of the way their dad acted.
They aren’t their FW father. They’re kids.
Sane parents don’t take shit. Keep parenting your values and don’t bring your FW into it. They don’t get to take their anger out on you or anyone else. Learn healthy ways of dealing, young person! You are their mother, not a rage receptacle.
I thought things would get better with time, but every time he shows up, in person or in conversation, the kids go right back to searing emotional pain, years later.
Get them therapy, or a new custody schedule. If they don’t want to see him, they often don’t have to at their age (if they’re teens). I know it’s painful to watch, but remind yourself this is THEIR relationship to work out.
We still can’t have a calm discussion about anything to do with him.
DON’T DISCUSS HIM.
Cool, bummer, wow instead. And for the love of all that is holy, do NOT try to convince them that Dad is a FW. He is providing plenty of material for them to draw that conclusion. I know you want to throw yourself on that grenade — to spare them the pain. HE IS A FW! STOP! And you also want the sweet, sweet validation from your kids that he sucks. (You probably aren’t going to get it, so give up.) But trying to convince them just makes them dig in deeper to defend him. That’s how it is with FWs, who play the sad sausage so convincingly. You’re the Big Bad Meanie! Step out of that frame. We. Do. Not. Discuss. HIm.
The worst part is. I see them engaging in chump behavior with their dad and I can’t persuade them that he sucks!
It is so not your job to persuade them. Please stop that immediately.
I know it’s unjust. Really, I get this in the marrow of my bones. I bred with a FW and I’ve been the codependent harridan waving my arms on the sidelines of family dysfunction. Let FWs FW. Stay OUT of it.
As they say in politics — “When you’re explaining, you’re losing.”
You know how you convince someone that a FW is a FW? Boundaries. Cousin Karen wants to borrow $50? Sorry, can’t help. Cousin Karen wants to borrow $50 from Aunt Mary and Aunt Mary has abundant evidence of Karen’s character? A powerpoint presentation of Karen’s criminality makes you look like a loon. (BUT IT IS DATA!) Assiduous avoidance of all things Karen is much more powerful. Let your actions speak.
I can’t protect my daughters from being chumped by their dad and I worry they are going to recreate these patterns in their future relationships.
They might. But then they’ll have your amazing example of mightiness to guide them.
Who are all these women whose children have their backs and have rallied completely behind their chump parents and defend and protect them? They are so lucky.
They’re like any other family with FWs — some get enough kicks in the teeth that they go no contact. But some do not. Some people will go to their graves believing the best in FWs.
I understand why you think they’re lucky — because it means their children have more empathy for their chump parent than their cheater parent. That’s validating, it’s a sign that they have values that align with yours. (Cheating BAD, showing-up GOOD.) But those kids are not “lucky” — that knowledge is super painful. That one parent abuses the other parent, abuses them, doesn’t show up for them in meaningful ways.
So many kids are living a muddle. A FW parent that sort of shows up. Who is dazzling and invested, so long as they don’t have to do the heavy parenting lifts. Those kids may spend years or perhaps their whole lives not understanding why their family broke up. Or how heroic you were to single parent without support. They may be myopic, or selfish, or just concerned with a thousand other things that aren’t your pain.
Show up anyway. Keep showing up. It’s the most convincing argument I know.
Therapy is somewhere your kids could vent and sort all of this out. We are not born psychologists. In my own case I don’t think my grown sons believed me either that their father had an affair. One son embraced the OW in a very short period of time, the other one took awhile. It all blew up anyway so it didn’t matter. They love their father and that was all there was to it. I find they watch for cues from you. I walked out and never went back, my oldest son complimented me on how I handled the entire situation. I did not want them choosing sides. Now he is aging, his health isn’t good and he is trying to sell a house he bought, against my sons wishes, with another women he met and knew briefly before purchasing a million dollar home. They can see for themselves who is thriving and who has been in a nose dive ever since he blew up his family. So why add insult to injury? They are seeing for themselves this real life tragedy unfold before their very eyes. I am not vengeful, hateful, what added value would that be for my sons? Be kind wherever possible, and its always possible. Its up to you.
My daughter witnessed the abuse and gaslighting as well as inappropriate behaviors with many other women. But at one point she tried a normal interchange with him which involved her doing many hours of handwork on a project for him that was intended for a Schmoopie-o-the-month. She got a deposit (smart) but sent item off without final payment (dumb.) You guessed it—he conned her. Huge hurt again but even bigger lesson. They never change nor do they get character transplants! Enjoy the Grateful Dead skull poncho, sucker, until you are replaced with the next hippie chick.
Therapy would be very beneficial to your kids because what happened to them is so confusing and you are not the one to talk to them about it. My kids were confused they of course thought I was the argument starter and he was the easy going one. Once they found out she was the affair partner one daughter was okay and the other wasn’t so they were fighting about how they were going to handle it. The oldest went to therapy and felt
very validated on her feelings. After one therapy session my older daughter called me and said “you are extremely moral and reliable” so it I was happy about that.
The kids are afraid to lose his love. You can get a new partner but that’s their only dad. After a few years I told my kids that I would validate their feelings if they felt he was lying so they will not be gas lit. He told them “ you have to accept her” which is not
True. That is just easier for him. But they do have to figure it out and it’s very painful.
I decided to refer to his behavior as “emotionally immature” and I bought a book about “ the emotionally immature parent” and left it lying around and they both read it. I like that term because on some ways an immature parent can mature? Maybe? Therapy because who doesn’t want someone on your side?
What’s unclear to me is why are the teen daughters unwilling to believe FW cheated given he moved out years ago and is an unreliable parent?
Is it because covering for FW /no evidence shown? FW is a superb actor? Why aren’t they setting boundaries, demanding accountability, seeing through the gaslighting? They’re not toddlers incapable of logic and reason.
What’s worrisome is then the kids are ripe for falling into relationships with abusive FW types or end up being she FW as adults. That’s the story of my ex FW. Abandoned by his own cheating dad who moved far away who played uncle daddy occasionally, grew up confused about the divorce because MIL didn’t disclose the serial cheating. FW then became a narcissistic sociopath who made me a chump. Guess what? He shits on his impoverished mother who raised him as a single parent. Won’t give her $200 for food while blowing thousands a month on himself and escorts.
Generational trauma is real.
Wow. This is my concern for my son who I feel is being groomed by his father. I can only suggest therapy somewhat regularly. I get it, he doesn’t want to be like me- a “victim”- and wants to be like his dad, a successful happier man, with a new wife and children he loves. Now, most stories here don’t have that- all the stories are about FWs being miserable. It isn’t my case, and I know I’m not alone. That said, I don’t miss him! I am not “meh” because I have rage and other issues..but I’m so much better. But I am alone, and I have a crappy 2 bedroom, while he has houses and cars.. and he’s an excellent manipulator. Anyway, the main thing is Tracy’s post today was EXACTLY what I needed. I cut and. pasted most of it in my notes. The holidays are hell for me.
Hey chumpty dumpty
I feel ya.
I have 3 adult children – DS 29, DD 27, DD 25 – thats the ages they were when the shit hit the fan over 5 years ago following a 35 year relationship (31y married). In the beginning (and thanks to this safe space) I made it clear that any relationship they had with their father was between them. It was nice to drop the ropes. I was deep in grief. I knew he’d f@&k up eventually because I was always the rock for them between the storm that he was when we were together. He quickly showed his true colours to middle DD and when challenged he cut all contact with her and her children. He continued to see the other two. DS took the longest to see him but eventually and mainly out of duty and box ticking he does have a relationship with his father and tolerates the OW, but I know this is strained as he has to come to me everytime to ground himself. Never talks about the visit or FW other than to snark occasionally and I’m ok with that. I don’t judge or join in, I just listen then move our conversation on when appropriate. With youngest DD who also has 2 children their relationship is volatile as FW will try to introduce OW to her. She’s shut that down a few times, explained herself clearly but you know what narcs are like with boundaries. So he trys to push this on her, she says no, he gets angry, sad sausage and plays the victim and she kills the convo. He disappears for a few months then circles back and trys again. It’s like a pathetic carousel.
They are all adults navigating their way through a storm caused by him, I am their calm. Sometimes it’s very painful to witness because I don’t want them to be hurting and as a mum I want to make it better, I want to take that pain away but I cannot and I am sort of at peace with that. They have a narc FW father but an awesome mum… and I’m ok with that.
It’s the gift that keeps on giving. Insidious. Every now and then it explodes, emotions are raw but they are getting there, one day they will sit on peace mountain with me but for now I can only model this for them.
Big hugs x
Chumpty Dumpty,
A Chump often struggles with the loss of the relationship that they though they had and finds it difficult to internalise the fact that they person that they had the relationship with isn’t the person that they thought/hoped they were. Your children are clearly still struggling to come to terms with who their father actually is, and are not adjusting to the fact that their father isn’t who they thought he was/hoped he was/presented himself as.
All you can do is give them time, be patient, be sane, be supportive (therapy for them would help) and be present. You should recognise (and enforce through appropriate boundaries) that their relationship with their father is for them to navigate as young adults; it is not something that you control, and it is not something that you are responsible for. It will hurt to see them suffer as a result of their father’s f*ckwittery, but they will eventually see him for who he actually is, and develop mechanisms to protect themselves.
LFTT
Dear Chumpty Dumpty,
You know how teenagers can have boyfriends or girlfriends who are not great people? As an adult we can see the issues but they have undeveloped brains and are in the throes of puppy love and miss the red flags. As a parent the worst thing you can do is demand the end of the relationship. The kid will dig in and declare the boy/girlfriend is the best person in the world, yada yada yada.
When you try to explain why Uncle Daddy is a bad person they are doing the exact same thing. He moved out and they don’t know why. And now you’re saying he’s evil. In their minds you drove him away from the kids that he loves. They think everything is your fault.
It’s time to never, ever discuss him with them unless THEY bring him up. And even then remain calm and don’t say anything negative unless it’s the correct answer to a direct question. Back away from the conflict if at all possible.
If you give their sperm donor enough space he will prove to them that he’s an asshole. Over and over he will show them exactly who he is. I know it’s terrifying to think that your kids will follow in your footsteps. But you survived. They will too. Either way, they are more likely to recognize the red flags if you leave them alone about Uncle Daddy. They’re smart. They’ll figure it out.
My oldest sadly found out Ballbag McGee is a terrible person and father – and It’s left a mark on him.
My younger kids still live with Ballbag McGee and have witnessed all sorts of shit at his and OW’s hands.
At gatherings when we both have to be there my girl will sit with them and not say too much to me and my family- brainwashed loyalty and it does sting.
I feel so sorry for my kids – they deserved so much better for a father.
My fw ex has convinced my 6 year old that I’m pure evil, that I won’t make nice and be friends because I’m hateful, that I instigated the divorce because my son is not a girl (??!), and who knows what else. Fw ex encourages him to spy on me and lie about the things I do when fw ex isn’t around.
These people are absolute garbage, and nobody will ever call them out on it. Mutual friends are on fw’s side. Family doesn’t believe you. The law doesn’t care. It’s fucking exhausting.
My children were young adults when I divorced their father, it has been 8 years. I had one child who was mad at the FW and the other that defended him. My son did not believe his father cheated and tried to get me to reconcile. I felt the best response was no response. I would say, “you just don’t understand marriage and commitment” and then walk away. I felt my children’s relationship with their father was different than mine. Eventually my son got that I was not getting back and he stopped bringing it up. I never have spoken ill of their father and rarely bring him up. As adults they get to decide the level of interaction they want with him, it is not up to me. I try to foster my relationship with them and not concern myself with his.
I think it is best to not put the kids in a position where they feel they have to defend their father. If I were to bad mouth my ex, they may try to protect him. So, I kept my mouth shut, which was not easy at times!! Good luck! just know if FW is a jerk, they will figure it out in their time.
This situation is very close to what I experienced with my kids with the later complication of their dad then dying. I had hidden the-worst-of-the-worst from them thinking it would be best if we wreckonsiled (which we did) but after he died I learned it was all much worse than I initially knew but telling grieving kids there dad was a worse person than any of us knew was not going to help them in any way.
What I had to do was be as decent as I could about their father’s memory and let them process stuff on their own time. They each circled back around in different times, in different ways for different reasons. I think I told the oldest the most but never did a full dump on the younger 2 (now 29 & 34) and likely never will unless they specifically ask.
All of us have also had to process the weirdly awkward reality that in a year when he treated us all very very badly and pulled nasty crap around every corner, he spent about 0.0005% of his time and .004% of his money buying a life insurance policy which has served us all very well. (He was trying to “set us up” before he left for OW to diffuse the criticism he expected. I believe he did it to soothe himself, not to care for us.) Does this redeem any of his abuse? Do genuinely bad people do good things? How does one keep it all in context?
Im 20 years out and still sometimes lay in the dark and stare at the ceiling contemplating it all.
At the very least, no chump should ever allow any blameshifting by the FW for the divorce onto themselves.
IME FW can be sneaky and repeatedly perform sad sausage, insinuate chump deserved to be cheated on (bagged salad?), downplay or outright deny the infidelity and also other abuses.
Whatever you do, I don’t recommend staying quiet in the face of narc blameshifting. Silence can be interpreted as agreement. Sadly, these FW tactics can/will succeed if left unchecked. FW poison is very, very long acting. I see its effect 40+ years later in the case of my FW ex-FIL.
Vet any therapist for your children extremely carefully lest they’re cheater apologists or ignorant.
Two great points. Yes, always vet the hell out of children’s therapists to weed out victim-blamers and abuser-coddlers (which is probably over half the field). And, yes, kids need to have an age-appropriate explanation of cheaters’ cheating and abusers’ abusing.
I would even say it’s worth hiring a PI to get the incontrovertible proof of FWittery, not just so chumps can defend themselves from gaslighting or get back dissipated assets but so FWs can’t gaslight, weaponize and alienate the kids against the protective parent.
In my experience, it’s really learning about the time and resources that FWs rob their own children of and spend on others that’s the kicker for kids. There was even a scene in The Sopranos where the psychopathic lead, Tony, at first expresses his deep internalization/emulation of his late father’s abusive personality by idealizing one of his dad’s former mistresses. But then even Tony’s perspective turns sour when he learns that his dad actually took the beloved family golden retriever and gave it to that former mistress and then told young Tony and his siblings that the dog ran away.
“Vet any therapist for your children extremely carefully lest they’re cheater apologists or ignorant”
I’m often left wondering if my oldest child’s (mid 20’s) therapist is contributing to the inability to see FW for who he really is. There’s been some blame shifting to me and I can’t figure out why. My friends think it’s the therapist and I’m leaning that way myself.
Switch out the therapist pronto! This can bite you in the @SS big time down the road. A friend’s child was influenced this way to help FW restart litigation abuse of the chump.
I don’t understand where the line is. Family court judges prefer that you say nothing at all, or put a positive spin on things for the kids. In my perfect world, I would tell my child the truth, because if you don’t, fw gets to control the narrative. I say as little as possible and answer questions when they come up. But it seems like a situation that is impossible to win.
Well there’s nothing preventing them from overhearing you loudly complain about the cheating-divorce to a sister /friend /relative. Just sayin’ LOL
For me, the “lucky part” after D-Day was my FW telling our mostly adult kids (we still had one teen at the time) himself, that he had cheated. This was something I insisted on during the horrible “pick me” period and he complied, begrudgingly. He told each one of them separately (in my presence) and they each had a different personal reaction, but all of them were certainly not happy with him. After his confession, some of them wrote letters/texts to him, sharing their displeasure and even their anger, with him. Some of them barely speak to him nowadays. Our youngest, who was very close to me, told him to his face that what he did was unforgivable and wants nothing to do with him and that he hates him.
Since they are all adults (now), I definitely let them navigate their relationship with him and I don’t get involved, thankfully.
But it is hard to see a few of the kids, 2 of the 6, that act like I should just get over it, it been years! (I still struggle with it 4 years later) and that ‘people do dumb things” and not that big of a deal. Really hurt me back in the day and still kind of stings to this day, honestly. But that is not mine to bear and I try not to let it get to me. 3 of the other kids hate him and can’t stand him and try never to speak to him unless absolutely necessary. And 1 plays Switzerland and the “He’s still my dad”, type of thing. It does help that I don’t have to see them and him together anymore, but I do hear things from them about him, from time to time.
Me – I am still so angry after all these years, that he willingly chose to destroy our marriage and our family with so little deference and just zero shits given. I can’t believe that was the man I chose to marry and was with for 30 years. I can’t believe he used to talk about how much he loved me and our kids over the years, and then chose to betray us in the worst way possible.
It is so hard for for everyone, adults and kids (no matter their age) when someone does something like this. So hard to navigate. I feel for every person going through this.
It’s an unpleasant possibility some of our kids will take after the narc cheater, by nature or nurture who knows.
Some older CL posts had commenter concerned about the kids turning out like FW and I have those worries myself about my younger one.
Another sh*t sandwich to choke down. Sigh.
Kids have this tendency to romanticize their parents. It’s kind of like why infants and toddlers scream bloody murder-it is literally the worst experience of their lives when they are crying. Their frame of reference is only their very, very limited experience. They don’t see outside of themselves yet.
Clinically, I’d be very curious where the pain comes from for them. It’s the kind of things that they can (and should) sort out in therapy. I wouldn’t at all be shocked if they were trying to sort the conflicting messages they are getting from either side…and by extension starting to come to realizations (see below.)
In my own healing journey, I’ve spent a lot of time unpacking childhood messages. My mother was a serial cheater. They “stayed together for the kids”(cough). There were a lot of conflicting messages growing up, particularly when the cheating got bad when we got older. One parent was the sane and rational and sad one. The other one was accusatory, paranoid, and abusive (guess which one was which?) One of them did their best to show up amidst their “stuff”, one stayed out of the house as much as possible and seemed to enjoy “getting one over” on their children. You can probably safely predict which one I keep in touch with as an adult.
I didn’t (or frankly, couldn’t have) appreciate(d) what it was like for my father when I was that age. I was a kid and was too wrapped up in my own stuff (and in a household filled with verbal abuse? “Being glad if not smug it wasn’t you” was sort of a way of life until the family imploded).
And you best believe T+3 days after D-Day when I told my father what had happened that I apologized for being a shit about it. He was graceful in his response, for which like many things from him I am thankful.
Your kids will come around. Sadly, they will probably have to go through some shade of it themselves before they really comprehend what the hell happened. Kids are also smart and fuckwits are also unreliable-sooner or later they will correlate the contents of their brains and see their father for what he is-and have the sad realization at the same time that the people we keep closest do not always have our best interests at heart. Learning about love sadly only ever seems to happen “the hard way.”
“Listen to me now, hear me later.”
You’ve got this! It just takes time.
Happy Tuesday To Those That Celebrate!
I feel you OP. I really do.
Both of my children are adults now. My youngest doesn’t speak to FW anymore. Hasn’t in years. But my oldest has a very hard time with the fact that our family is no longer intact. And I shoulder some blame in his mind. Not for FW’s cheating, I think he sees that is all on his father, but for cutting FW out of my life, divorcing him, and breaking up our family.
He is upset with me for holding boundaries with FW. He thinks I should open communications with FW and not shut him out. He thinks we should be friendly because that’s what FW wants. In his mind the cheating is behind us and we should move forward as a family.
I hold firm in my boundaries. I love my children more than anything, I would die for them. But I am not bringing FW back into my life and subjecting myself to further abuse. I am not the one who destroyed our family. I’m the one who walked away because I had to. I hope my son can see that one day soon.