The Other Woman Is ‘Single, White, Female’ Creepy
The Other Woman is copying her in a single, white, female creepy kind of way. What to do with this unwanted doppelgänger?
***
Dear Chump Lady,
I don’t know how I got here. That is the despairing question that keeps going around in my head.
I found out that FW was having an affair with a neighbor/friend in early December 2022 and by the beginning of February, he rented an apartment a few blocks away with the OW. The OW was a neighbor/friend who is 15 years younger than my husband. The four of us (FW, myself, OW, and OW’s then husband) used to have dinners together; the stayed at our country house. When the OW’s husband cheated on her and their marriage broke down, I helped her so much. I talked to her, fed her, etc. I even invited her to join FW and me on her first Valentine’s Day after her separation so that she wasn’t alone.
In hindsight, it was like that bad Single White Female movie.
She always wanted to copy me.
She wanted to go to the same hairdresser, same shops, wanted to learn my recipes, and so on. “You live in my dream house.” It was an endless “Single White Female” creepy nightmare.
I knew she wanted my life, but I never thought my husband would stoop that low. Then, they started drinking together every night when her marriage ended. She is a big drinker. My husband started going out to a neighborhood bar to hang out with her and her friends, starting at 6 p.m., every night, coming home for dinner at 8 p.m., going back out at 8:30 p.m., closing the bar and coming home afterwards intoxicated. This went on for good three years. In the meantime, he did not parent, other than paying for things.
I should have seen it coming, but I didn’t. When I discovered that they were having an affair, I was shocked . I think their bond is tied together with constant drinking and smoking. She quickly assumed the role of a partner. Two weeks after he moved out, my father-in-law was already hosting family functions with FW and OW. It is like I have been lifted out by a crane, replaced by OW, and nobody notices. You talked about how friends and family become Switzerland in your book. This is much more hostile than that, say Russia.
Now, all of sudden, I am left alone.
I didn’t cause this mess but am met with his aggressive attacks. Here is one of his emails.
I think it is unfair to suggest that I am causing financial stress when it is me that has all the financial stress. I am paying around $$$$ for the mortgage each month. For a house I don’t ever enter. $$$$ for the utilities, and about $$$$ per month from the joint account – which you know I never use for myself anymore. About $$$$ per month in total before school fees and other kids’ costs. Let alone supporting myself.
“I would like to meet to work out how we can have an arrangement that works for both of us going forward. I do not want to cause increased stress and I have tried not to over the last six months. So I think now is the time for a proper conversation and some solutions for us both to live our lives without rumour, confusion, misunderstanding and additional hurt. You refusing to talk to me has not worked for either of us.
Why does he want me to feel badly that he pays mortgage on the house that he owns but left on his own accord? Why is he complaining about children’s expenses when he is spending tens of thousands on himself and the OW on holidays?
Then there is the lack of respect for boundaries.
FW and OW wanted my dogwalker to walk OW’s dog. They wanted my friend to dog-sit her dog. They wanted my cleaning lady to clean their house. Yesterday, a friend of mine who is a personal shopper told me that he had contacted her to help OW with her clothes. How inconsiderate. I feel like there is no point talking to FW, although he wants to meet with me to coerce me into paying money for maintaining the house, because he’s just so out of touch with reality of what is right and what is wrong.
I have stayed well away from him because seeing his face or even his handwriting cause me anxiety. He is a bully. Like you said in your book, no contact has helped me so much. I do not want to see him. That is what lawyers are for.
Am I wrong? I am so lost.
Lost
***
Dear Lost,
Yes, lawyers. I assume you have one? He can discuss the finances with your legal representative. No one gives a flying burrito about his “stress.”
He’s discarded you, now dissolve into ether and have no needs. That goes for the children too. Daddy needs another beach holiday with his Pygmalion project.
Jesus. Who cares what he thinks is “fair”? You’re divorcing because his dick wandered. There are consequences. Which are pretty tame all things considered. He has to pay his existing obligations (the injustice!) and divide property. No one is smiting him with a lightning bolt, or demanding his left ear as tribute to a vengeful god. He has to pay the mortgage.
Forward the whinging emails to your attorney and please put them out of your mind. Every day people work out divorce settlements.
His angry feelings about it ARE NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
Really! He’s upset and… you don’t have to accommodate him or respond!
“I would like to meet to work out how we can have an arrangement that works for both of us going forward.
Your attorney can contact his attorney.
He’s trying to get you to bypass that whole legal advocate thing, where you have a member of the Bar champion your rights. Go straight to “arrangement.” LOL. Funny how cheaters are all about consensus after they unilaterally blow up their marriages.
“So I think now is the time for a proper conversation
“and some solutions for us both to live our lives without rumour, confusion, misunderstanding and additional hurt.
Says the man who doesn’t want to pay for his children. He cares about misunderstandings and hurt.
Whatever. He can express his sentiments with timely support checks.
Keep up the no contact.
“You refusing to talk to me has not worked for either of us.
I think no contact is working splendidly for you. Him not so much. He can’t twiddle the knobs of the mindfuck machine. You tuned out.
Keep up the good work, Lost.
She’s appropriating your tastes because she has none.
Now about your creepy carbon copy, there. Looks like she’s stepped the Pick Me Dance into high gear. Even if you’re not there to vie for the crown with, she can compete with your image. Who wore your human skin best?
In hindsight, it was like a bad 80s movie. Always she wanted to copy me. And she wanted to go to the same hairdresser, same shops, wanted to learn my recipes, and so on.
Yeah, I’d be creeped out too. But think of how pathetic this person is and how shallow. She cannot capture the essence of you, because you’re more than your chicken curry recipe. She thinks if she cobbles together some superficial traits, like a deranged magpie, she can assemble an Interesting Person. Someone who will hold your ex’s attention. Like you, only 2.0. 15 years younger and more malleable.
Pity her. Or maybe get a restraining order. I don’t know. These kinds of Single White Female cases seriously weird me out.
“You live in my dream house.” It was an endless “Single White Female” creepy nightmare.
Funny. Sounds like you still live in your dream house and FW is paying the mortgage. I don’t imagine that’s how Schmoops envisioned her HGTV fantasy.
FW and OW wanted my dogwalker to walk OW’s dog.
Ugh. Incestuous dog walking. She’s really trying to insert herself into your world, isn’t she? Well, obviously you don’t control your dog walker’s client list. But I wouldn’t want to know about it.
Desperate triangulation for desperate people.
They wanted my friend to dog-sit her dog.
Is this a mutual friend with your soon-to-be-ex? Best not to have the same social circles. If this friend’s answer wasn’t “Hell no! Call Rover.com!” reconsider the friendship. (I’m also feeling sorry for this dog getting pawned off on strangers.)
They wanted my cleaning lady to clean their house.
It sounds to me like your ex isn’t very good at adulting. You used to organize these things and now he has to find his own service people. Instead of Googling, he’ll just appropriate yours. FWs aren’t very original. That’s why you see exes take Schmoopies to the same restaurants, same vacation spots, same movies, etc. It’s not that they ascribe great meaning to these things… like, HOW DARE YOU! Mr. Popper’s Penguins WAS OURS! … it’s that they don’t ascribe meaning at all. Everything is transactional. Everyone is replaceable. Your upset is an extra frisson of kibbles, but I don’t think it’s the driving motivator for him. Laziness is.
For her, it’s just amplifying the pick me dance because you won’t play. Will you compete for the DOG SITTER then? It’s nuts. Ignore her.
Yesterday, a friend of mine who is a personal shopper told me that he had contacted her to help OW with her clothes.
Look, your lifestyle sounds pretty fabulous. But how sad is this — your ex wants to dress Schmoopie? Excuse me… “help.” Sounds like a bid to get her to pick me dance. He must be in thrall to a woman who will mold herself into any pleasing shape for his approval. How toxic. What accessorizes with control freak?
He is a bully.
And now he’s her bully. No tag backs. They can go drink themselves into a stupor and play matching holiday pajamas.
Keep rocking the no contact and Godspeed on the divorce.
Lost,
Just maintain the no contact. My EXFW tried to get me to talk and meet with him and that just did not happen. He is the enemy, and you don’t have to negotiate with him. That is why both of you retained lawyers. My FW then went through his lawyer on every meaningless issue and then found out that cost him some serious money. He stopped that but everything went to the lawyers because I did not want any contact with a FW.
Just be glad you are getting rid of FW. Maintain NC, get divorced and live a good life.
Lost,
I’d put your FW’s email down to the standard “Cheater cheats, gets caught out, faces consequences, hates it and whines like a little bitch.” Ignore it; as CL says, that’s what lawyers are for.
Fundamentally, you’ve got this. You know who he is and you are doing the right things; and it’s quite normal to be revolted by your Cheater and their schmoopie when they reveal themselves in their full “splendour.”
Keep the faith!
LFTT
Lost,
It seems you’ve been lost a long time: “My husband started going out to a neighborhood bar to hang out with her and her friends, starting at 6 p.m., every night, coming home for dinner at 8 p.m., going back out at 8:30 p.m., closing the bar and coming home afterwards intoxicated. This went on for good three years.” Not sure why you tolerated this alcoholic behaviour for so long, or surprised that affairs & boinking randoms tends to happen with late nights & drinking? You’ve clearly overlooked a lot. Maybe for the lifestyle yourself? Along with keeping up no contact, having your lawyer deal with the Fuckwit, I would suggest a therapist to unravel your own lostness. The OW needs her own therapist – just don’t tell fuckwit who you’re seeing!!
Am I the only one who calls bullshit on the OW’s claim that her husband cheated on her? Liars lie, and they project their own misdeeds on others. Ten bucks says OW blew up her marriage with cheating and her affair with Lost’s ex is just another in a long string of them. Sociopathic behavior is never a one off.
But, that’s untangling the skein. Lost, let your lawyers do all the talking and focus on getting your settlement and getting these nutjobs out of your life.
I am not sure ethically the therapist can provide therapy for someone so ingrained in OPs issues.
The renting of an apartment within spitting distance of your home screams out “more triangulation and kibbles please!” Not to mention an added layer of anxiety over the likelihood of accidentally running into one or the other of them.
It may be her dream home … is it yours? I’m not suggesting uprooting you and your children from your home, but if your attorney negotiates you getting the house and the situation continues to be untenable, finding another house bears consideration.
Keep rocking NC … and let your attorney do the talking. Hopefully, your STBX will be footing that bill too. You are mighty!
Maybe I am being overly cautious but I would consider getting a restraining order. All adultery stories rub me the wrong way, but this one in particular feels scary to me because she actually wants to be you.
Almost everyone at CN can probably relate to the part of this letter where FW gets mad that divorce is expensive. My FW told me about his affair because his plan was to leave me for her. An affair that spanned years, and he finally told me.
Now, one would think that since the FW was aware of his own affair for years and had the luxury of revealing it to me by choice, when he wanted to, that by the time he did, he would have thought about at least some of the details. But no. Apparently he got as far as “I’ll be with Schmoops who will lavish me with kibble” and not one step further. Every icky aspect of splitting up our marriage came as a shock to him. What he’d pay in child support. How he’d see less of his children. How expensive housing is. The fact that I was not interested in being part of his new life, as some kind of buddy to the OW. Hell, he hadn’t even considered that our kids, younger girls, would not want to stay with him as OW had teen sons. I mentioned “they are not going to be keen on that” and I saw the wheels turning, and the concern take hold of his face. He never considered it. His affair was long distance and the plan was to move her here. She was not financially stable, so they would rent a place together right away. So if he wanted his kids to stay with him, they would be mixing in with hers immediately. None of that was ok. And he realized it as soon as I said it, but had NOT considered it previously.
Then he was angry with me that everything was going to be so hard. Ummm…it was also going to be hard for me, moreso with just one income. And I hadn’t chosen this outcome. And had just been utterly blindsided.
People can leave a marriage ethically and the financial strains are still there. Splitting up a household is just not ideal in many ways. So I know that this isn’t exclusive to cheating stories. But the part where the cheating FW blames the spouse that didn’t even see it coming IS exclusive to the cheating stories. And the part where the cheaters try to cheat the chump financially is also more likely to happen in infidelity.
But boy, the part where they are so mad and ill prepared despite having the upperhand is tiresome.
The one and only time I really got angry with XW I just kept repeating over and over “I can’t fucking believe you started this without thinking through the consequences”. Then I went out and learned about limerence.
The chump is supposed to just magically vanish somehow, leaving the FW with all of the community property. And of course responsibility for any children, unless they plan to foist the kids off on grandparents. Or the OW.
I can’t imagine how they are so disconnected from reality that they can’t understand the actual outcomes of their bad decision making. How they don’t seem to see that other people are badly affected by their affair(s) and wrecking the marriage and family. How can they NOT see this? Why are they so SHOCKED when the actual and inevitable results of their actions are shown to them?
Nothing outside them is real to them.
Mine too. Told me all the ‘problems ‘ of his alcoholic AP, then was ASTOUNDED when I said “well, it won’t be MY problem, will it? On his own with that reality shit him up visibly! As if I would ‘help’ with her alcoholism!!!!!!!!@
We see the Single White Female trope come up here fairly regularly. Obviously it is very creepy, unpleasantand enraging for the wife. But also, just plain dumb. Does the schmoops not recognize that the FW left his wife? Schmoops is turning herself into the woman he discarded? That doesn’t make a lick of sense.
We just had a story yesterday from CL from a woman complaining about her husband leaving her for a younger model, but 20 years before SHE was the AP. She had thought he was leaving a “terrible” marriage, but they all say that of course. She lost him how she got him.
It does make sense if you consider it through the lens of FW thinking. AP is an alcoholic and a loser, and with that comes a miserable life. She thinks that if she gets everything Lost has, that will fix it. They are all about using externals to fix internal problems.
SortofOverIt — sometimes it’s because FW is steering AP that way. FWs might want certain things from the Chump that they actually liked, and they try to make the AP dress like the Chump or wear their hair like them. And APs pick me dance like crazy and do all kinds of dumb shit for FWs. Maybe FWs are Dr Frankensteins creating their own creepy brides. They are all deranged.
Side note… I need to find a reason to use CL’s priceless description: “she cobbles together some superficial traits, like a deranged magpie”
This was definitely the case with my FW and his OW. FW had steered me certain directions too (very, very subtly, so that I didn’t notice, except in hindsight). He wasn’t looking for me, he was looking for someone he could shape. When I stopped “shaping”, he found someone more malleable.
Yes, as always, CL hit it on the head. Deranged magpies, indeed.
But fellow chumps also come up with the best zingers, LFTT said above:
““Cheater cheats, gets caught out, faces consequences, hates it and whines like a little bitch.”
I really did choke on my coffee there. It’s just too perfect. Tale as old as time. And it goes back to the scenario in my other comment, they bomb the marriage and then are surprised that things are messy, as if they truly did not consider any consequences at all. It would almost be funny if WE were not all left holding the shit sack of a bag.
SortofOverIt,
I’m glad you liked my scribblings above.
In terms of your point about “the Chumps being left holding the shit sack of a bag” I’d observe that what makes that even worse is that Cheaters all too often think that they have the right to criticise how the Chump clears up the mess that the Cheater made.
LFTT
Oh mine for sure did not appreciate my methods of cleaning up the mess. Things went belly up with AP, so FW was angry that I still moved forward with the divorce. As if the ending of that relationship changed anything about MY situation.
But early on, when his plan was still to move in with AP and live happily ever after? He wanted me to remain in his life and be friends with AP. And I mean truly friends. He wanted us to basically behave like a family. The scenarios he described sounded like polygamy, except without the sex. He is not the most openminded person, if friends of ours did this, he’d think it was nutty.
I think that was some kind of fantasy world he dreamed up, to fix the mess he made. After all, if I was hanging out with OW, then his cheating must not have been a problem. And it would mean he would not see less of his kids, etc. I used to be a complete pushover, so when I expressed in no uncertain terms that I wouldn’t be taking part in any of that crazy charade, he was enraged. The temper tantrum that ensued rivaled the harshest of toddler tantrums. “Whines like a little bitch” indeed.
My FW would probably been happy with polygamy WITH the sex. He wanted us all to be a happy little unit. That, or keep our marriage and keep her on the side with my blessing. That seemed to be what our wreckonciliation was testing out – whether I’d let him do whatever he wanted. Ugh. No thanks.
AP dumped him eventually, and he came circling back to me, because he had no backup plan and his life had become an absolute mess. I suppose he thought I could clean it up for him and might even be happy to have him back. By then I’d completely detached. He ended up taking his own life because he couldn’t deal with everything.
It really is true how they are lazy and take the new kibble source to your old places or do the same things with them, which is hurtful until you realize that’s what they’re doing.
My ex-FW and I would go to a local beach town close to where we live often and I always thought it was “our” place. There are so many photos of us walking along the beach and I now know (thanks to the discovery during divorce) that he was taking one of his Schmoopies there as well, probably the day before. That really killed me, even more than thousands of dollars spent at lingerie shops because that was “our” place. Apparently not.
He’s gone on vacations to places we’ve been and for years, he refused to go the Renaissance Festival because he thought it was “dumb,” but finally, one year, he was in a good mood and he went. We started going every year after that. And guess who still goes to the Ren Fest with his new sources?
By the way, it doesn’t sound like Lost had a lawyer. Please, Lost, get a lawyer—stat!! A good one. Like, yesterday. And Godspeed!
Yeah. FW took AP to all “our” places, did all the same things with her that he did with me. Even played her the same “special” songs and whatnot. No originality.
RedKD — totally true that FWs are lazy and unimaginative. In my case I found a FW email forwarding one of my recipes to AP… trying to get her to cook it too. I’m sure AP felt great about that lol.
And one of their first big trips together was to San Francisco and Napa…. where FW and I first met and even honeymooned. I couldn’t even feel bad about it…. It just made me laugh at how icky it was. APs just become re-treads of the same shit.
I did however, “take back” my favorite places and restaurants. If they showed up or I heard they were at a place I loved, I’d just go. And they stopped showing up 😂 It wasn’t awkward for me…. But it was super awkward for them. I made friends at every restaurant so it became too uncomfortable for FW to go back to any place I was a regular. I even scared them away from Trader Joe’s 😂
😄Nice work!
It seems to be common for FWs to take their skanks to places that were special to their spouses. In addition to laziness and lack of imagination, another factor is that they are trying to replace the memories of the spouse at these places with memories of the schmoop.
OHFFS – in my case FW also wanted to scare me away. To intimidate me. Instead, it freaked out AP… which I think he enjoyed initially, but must have triggered trouble in paradise 😂
Initially I was traumatized and scared…. But then I wasn’t and I went back to every place I wanted to
There is a beach town not too far from where we lived (I still live), less than an hour away. We went a few times and I thought it was ‘our’ place. We went a handful of times for special events like birthdays and anniversaries and to have our PREGNANCY PHOTOS taken. Guess what? FW took the child mistress there like a dozen times. Because of course, he did. POS.
Lost, Sorry for all the agony this FW and his double mint twin are putting you through.
Like Sarah said in the podcast this week, you think you’ve heard it all and can’t be shocked anymore, but FWs continue to shock us with their shenanigans again and again.
Almost sounds like they are both alcoholics, can’t drink like that for years and escape the toll. The bar bills alone should be able to cover the mortgage on an additional country house. Maybe she’ll be hitting you up for the blueprints from your builder before too long. Send her the Amazon link to the welcome mat at your front door when you get the chance.
FWs definitely do get really upset when we go NC. We’ve taken away their ability to mold and control us to their advantage. How dare we!!
We work to gain our agency back and then refuse to be bamboozled by their ridiculous narrative even one second longer.
That is extremely uncomfortable and threatening for them. They want to be the sole writer of the screenplay they are producing. We are just one of the hired actors in it.
My FW was sooo annoyed with me taking months to answer any of his emails after the divorce. He labeled the action “passive aggressive.”
More like I didn’t want a single damn thing to do with him. I didn’t want to waste a drop of my energy having him front and center in any aspect of my life.
His ‘replacements’ were also almost always that magic 15 years his junior.
In fact, he had multiple mistresses throughout the decades and all I knew of ( sure there were plenty I didn’t!) were 15 years younger than him.
It must of been a prerequisite of admission into FW land, you must have your masters in science and be 15 years younger than your manipulative, controlling superior-in all ways partner.
I think CL hit it, has to do with the ability to be more malleable and get into all those Gumby shapes he needs you to transform to.
When I was growing up I had two neighbors on either side of my house that were 6 years my junior. I remember being in 8th grade, so like 14 years old, and they both wanted to be carbon copies of me. Every little purse or skirt or shirt I got, they ran right out with their mother to get.
It use to drive me crazy, but my mom wisely told me it was a compliment, they respected me and wanted to be just like me.
It’s okay for 8 year olds to do that, but in your 30’s or 40’s, it’s just next level creepy and bizarre.
She must have to replace the taps on her shoes weekly, because she’s dancing as hard and as fast as she can to overtake your life and become you and that is just not a sustainable or viable reality goal.
It also struck me when you said your STBX in-laws were hosting the two cheaters in an eye blink two weeks later.
What the hell is wrong with people?! How do they rationalize that to the face that stares back at them in the mirror every day?!
I have so many questions about the shit storm that is infidelity that will never be answered sufficiently enough, as we all do.
Hold the course, Lost. You sound like you are the only remaining sane person in that whole unasked for dramatic soap opera that was dump on your lap.
They will be off the air and cancelled before you know it and a very distant memory in your long trashed TV Guide.
Some ppl are just missing a few essential brain chips and are not fully human or conscious. I’ve really come to believe that is true.
Maybe the personal shopper can match her shades to their favorite vodka brand. It’s not your problem anymore. That is actually excellent news for you.
Good luck with it all. Hang in chumpdom with some real, consciously awake and very caring people. We will have your back with no motive other than you living your best life.
“FWs definitely do get really upset when we go NC. We’ve taken away their ability to mold and control us to their advantage. How dare we!!”
It was so weird to me (long before CL/internet) that fw after he filed for D, was so pissed that I would not listen to his offerings. I would just say, I can’t talk about the D, my lawyer is speaking for me.
He obviously thought that his ability to be in control which for the most part he was always in control would extend beyond the discard.
Ah yes, the magical 15 years age gap. The OW in my case was exactly 15 years younger than me too. The FWs cannot have an equal, they’re too beta for that!
I read this column for insights like “Pygmalion project”.
FW in this case does need to understand there is only so much money and a legally fair way to split it is within reach. Meanwhile enjoy the house. I still treasure the memory of “How does your client expect my client to find somewhere to live when she does not know how much money she will have available?”.
There have been quite a few SWF stories here. In my situation, the AP wasn’t just trying to copy me but also my kids, trying to mimic their accomplishments. It was unsettling. My lawyer recommended security cameras because the affair had blown up when exposed but the copying continued. Fortunately there were no bunnies boiled. But a therapist friend who specializes in personality disorders warned that copycatting is a common trait of psychopaths who’ve had to copy emotions their entire lives in order to pass as normal. It apparently eventually becomes opportunistic and some may radically change appearance, behavior and borrow from others’ life stories or TV characters to get more of what they want from others. I got cameras just in case.
The crazy OW in my case even appropriated my career and began posting aggressively on LinkedIn which was at the time the only platform I was on. Hilariously, although I heard she tried, she had a snowflake’s chance in hell of trying to look like me. That was an epic fail as she was certainly no beauty. Copycatting or turf pissing or what, the FWs always trade down per the Lola (Granola) doctrine and the OWs are just the next in line for the cycle of abuse.
Alcoholics like to be with other drinkers. Responsible drinkers or people that abstain make them very uncomfortable, resentful even. I’m betting former father-in-law likes the sauce too which is why he is so welcoming to the OW. I think we all know that problem drinkers eventually become total train wrecks so you’re well rid of him.
As a child of alcoholics I agree with this. My father used to favor drinking with my mother’s mother, who was also an alcoholic and they got along MUCH better than my parents did. If a drinker tries to break away from people like this, they’ll do almost anything to get him or her to go back to drinking because they’re weak and they need others to reinforce that their decisions are “okay”.
“So I think now is the time for a proper conversation and some solutions for us both to live our lives without rumour, confusion, misunderstanding and additional hurt. You refusing to talk to me has not worked for either of us.”
Way to bury the lede, FW. All that whining about money and his real agenda only comes out at the tail end.
When he says rumor, he’s referring to you telling the truth about him. He wants a chance to convince you to keep quiet. The “additional hurt” is to his reputation. The “confusion” and “misunderstanding” is you not accepting that he is splendid. You poor confused dear, you actually think he’s a bastard! He must convince you that he’s really a lovely guy who just fell out of love, in order to secure your cooperation with his agenda. He needs to convince you of that before things get legal, hoping you’ll accept less than you deserve. Don’t give him the opportunity to mindfuck you.
So now that you know what he really wants, send his bullshit to your lawyer. I hope your lawyer has the soul of a Rottweiler.
Since FW is concerned about his reputation, your lawyer can express to him that if things go well in the negotiation, you currently have no intention of talking about it. Then, after you get what you have earned, change your intention and sing like a canary.
As for the copying, losers without authentic identities or ideas of their own will do that. The AP thinks she can just take your life, since her own is a chaotic mess. Little does she know that it isn’t going to change anything. In fact, two back-stabbing alcoholics in a household are twice as bad as one. They are going to destroy each other.
Hi FW,
If you want to have a sit down to discuss expenses and how we are going to navigate the divorce process, you can reach my lawyer at imgoingtotakeyouforeverydollarthatyouhave@lawyer.com.
Take care,
Lost
It would be great if that link led somewhere. I really wanted to click on it lol.
This sounds EXACTLY like FW. — And that was AFTER we had completely divided assets and the agreement was signed. He CONTINUED to complain about money (he also has to pay my mortgage for a few years) and talked about how we will be having joint discussions in the future about money. HAHAHAHA- that will be a one-sided discussion for SURE. The second my youngest graduates from high school our last means of communication (email) will be BLOCKED. FW also swings from one pendulum to the other – saying he won’t provide one extra penny for our kids (one of whom is over 18 and not included in the child support he pays) then the next month he’ll pretend he’s Daddy Warbucks and bestow an extra $500 for “incidentals”. – I mean I’ll TAKE it – but I will not be acknowledging anything- just spending it at the grocery store. FWs seem to delight in having “things to work out going forward” but he will be very surprised to learn that the only thing I’ll be working out is how to cover all my kids’ needs by myself so they don’t ever have to rely on him for anything. I am truly grateful that FW and AP live across state lines a good 45 minutes away. I don’t know how chumps handle living in the same town.
This letter broke my heart. I am so sad that any spouse would discard their spouse and kids like this for some worthless whore who doesn’t even have her own personality or essence but has to copy Lost like a robot. I don’t know if I have any words of wisdom or consolation here because I’m just shocked at how someone like Lost reaches out in kindness and compassion to this evil woman (and she is evil along with the FW) and she treats her kindness like this, stealing her husband & trying to steal her life. And the FW’s family goes along with it! Well, we know what turd tree FW fell out of. My guess is that there’s a lot of stuff about FW that Lost forced herself to overlook or didn’t consider in the past and this probably isn’t his first affair either. The exit affair for a man frequently is not the first one. This man’s willingness to play Pgymalion with this whore, as CL says, just indicates to me he was looking for a younger model of his wife – same thing, same appliance functions, but just a younger model – and this thing offered herself. He’s probably always been a VERY CONTROLLING PERSON, she just never realized the extent and how he would betray her some day. The drinking also will not end well….drinkers (and I come from a family of alkies) do not generally end up well.
Lost, both of these people – and your inlaws – are no good, these are not good people, they are lacking in morals and in basic kindness and decency. They just are – it’s like asking for kindness from an alligator or a shark….they eat, fuck and die. That about sums up people like this except unlike the animals, they connive ruthlessly against others, especially those who show them any kindness or consideration. Do not have anything to do with this man again, go through the lawyers, use a parenting app, get the house & everything else you have coming to you. If anyone supports these two at all, drop them immediately from your life FOREVER. Do not listen to anyone who tries to get you to be “reasonable” or listen to him or any bullshit like that, it’s all bullshit to make themselves comfortable. And make sure your kids know what happened in an age appropriate way. Tell them as much of the story as you can, they need to know what Dad is like, including the drinking, and they need to know what the whore is like, how she directly betrayed you, because these two AHs will try to connive them and buy them and kids don’t have the life experience to know who to trust. As someone from a very dysfunctional family, I assure you, it is EXTREMELY important that kids know what their parents are actually like and what they have done and what they are capable of. Keep up the NO CONTACT and know that you are RIGHT in this, no matter what anyone says to you or how they do their minor league betrayals by abandoning you. They show what they are through their actions. This is where you tell the real gold from the fool’s gold.
After D day My XH would send me texts from all the places we used to go to. “Hey Chump, I’m at the coffee shop we loved and a great Christian band is playing. Hey Chump, now I’m in our favorite restaurant in that quaint little town our joint burial plots are in! Remember the roasted chicken? Hey, Chump, my new Spider motorcycle is taking trips everywhere WE went !! Nany many boo boo! Plus she is 20 years younger and likes to ride full speed on the highway. Something you REFUSED to do at your age.” Unless you read Tracy’s book Leave a Cheater Gain a life, you think this is rare, hurtful, unusually cruel. Now, it’s just standard operating Cheater and you, WE are not special. Why turn a lover into a twin of one he left behind? Pick me dance supreme. It just dawned on me after reading Chump lady archives that the PICK ME DANCE is COERCION. COERCION. My XH used me as a pick me dance partner when I did not even know he was doing strangers. He would tell me what he wanted, put out my underware and then tell me if I pleased him, as if he were king. So demeaning and so without respect for a woman he supposedly loved. So it was not love ever. It was always transactional and I could be replaced no matter how hard I danced… Futile effort. NO CONTACT saved my brain from imploding due to his misinformation campaign to destroy not just our marriage, but my mind, my body and my personhood. It is nice to know you have money for a bad ass lawyer. Walk the dog yourself, pick out your own clothes, clean your own house and lose this 10 year old and his 5 year old copy cat. Stop communicating and don’t give them anything to feed on. No blood in the water. Pay your lawyer and forget him…go forth and prosper. Also, make new friends because you were used and abused. Your husband got away with bad behavior for a long time. Get support for how you thought that was ok. I did the same.
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I remember dating this young mega rich guy briefly who’d tell me things previous girlfriends had done that he liked. My only thought was “sloppy seconds.” It made me not want to do any of those things. I would be a punk and respond with things like, “Yeah, I’m not into catering dinner parties” which isn’t even true but I could sense he was striking up the band and trying to incite me to pickme dance. Nuh uh, not gonna. I think I just did it for the look on his face.
He wasn’t actually the worst human being, more a “situational narcissist” from being born on third base as they say. He at least had pangs of conscience and didn’t try to tear me down for noncompliance. He would joke that, while he’d waste his time buying shit, I was probably saving orphans or doing something creative. When things didn’t work out, we ended up talking as friends (it helps that I never slept with him) about those kinds of pickme-incitement exchanges. I admitted I actually had no issue, say, cooking for 20 but “that which I would gladly give I would not have taken from me.” He apologized (one of only two genuine apologies I’ve ever received in my life from men outside my family) and confessed he’d gotten accustomed to women jumping through hoops because of his money but he recognized it wasn’t real or healthy and he’d end up having panic attacks because he didn’t know who his friends were. It’s funny but I actually felt sorry for him. Extreme wealth as a test of character lol.
I do have to admit I’d probably write some stuff in revenge….because I like revenge. I’d probably write him that I just spent the night with a great new guy and he was so much better in bed. Thank God I finally found a big weiner instead of a Vienna sausage. Your FW’s comments to you were absolutely vicious.
Haha, I have some of the same impulses. I read a study that minor, noninjurious acts of revenge (in which no animals are harmed and no public property defaced, etc.) are actually quite good for the mental states of the avengers. I’m a big fan of gallows humor. Anything nonviolent and noninjurious that makes a victim think back on a traumatic time in their life and snicker instead of curling up in a ball of traumatic acid flashbacks is probably a good thing.
That is absolutely my attitude towards it. Obviously none of us advocate violence and I don’t want to get into some kind of obsessive elaborate plan for revenge, LOL, that’s too tedious. But if there’s some way I can get my digs in, I think it’s a good thing because it’s empowering. It’s like you don’t have to eat the whole shit sandwich, you can cut it in half and give him (or whoever) a slice. I like the expression in Pygmalion where Eliza talks about “getting a bit of me own back” from Professor ‘Iggins. That’s what it feels like to me.
Spending every single evening with the OW for three years, allegedly bar hopping with her friends? Uh, okaaaaay… FW may have told Lost that this is how his time was being spent but common sense dictates that he and OW were likely elsewhere, doing other things, together. Playing boyfriend/girlfriend. Whatever. Why was this not a massive, marriage-ending issue at the time? Every single night?! What?! Personally, I would have divorced him after a couple months of that screwball behavior, but I understand that when there’s a mansion, a country home, and servants involved, it could be a bit harder to hit the eject button.
Lost probably never thought that FW would actually try to go legit with the sidepiece, so she looked the other way for years. Now, instead of being the one who (rightly) pulled the plug on this lousy marriage, she’s the one who got left. Yes, that is regrettable, but if it were me, I’d ditch the “lost” feelings and replace them with “found” and “relieved” feelings. This man did not act like a husband or a father for years. He’s a thing of the past, don’t let him rob even a minute of your present or future. Don’t just wait around to feel like you’ve moved on — decide to move on.
Laushell– You’re kind of assuming things about the character of Lost that weren’t established in her message. Maybe she comes from money and that was never the draw. I agree there might be an element of enabling addiction but that can be for a lot of reasons. He might have been really scary to confront over it. Or there’s the fact that lack of past experience with family addiction can be as debilitating as being over-accustomed to the behavior and trained from childhood to enable. I think it’s generally better to assume that victims of domestic abuse probably had enough aspersions cast on their characters by abusers already without having more poured on by those offering help.
As someone who grew up in an abusive, alcoholic family I know that spouses sometimes take the tack of not confronting because it’s “safer”. They know if they confront a drunken spouse, or even when one sobers up, a spouse who will get nasty, that they will have a tussle that don’t really know how to deal with, especially if they have no external support. My mother didn’t have any – my father cut her off from most friends and her own mother sided with him because she was also an alcoholic. It can be very hard and debilitating to deal with an abusive, alcoholic (or drug using) spouse and my mother turned to drink to dull her own feelings about how awful her marriage was and her inability to escape. In my mother’s case, she was literally afraid my father would kill her and me if she tried to leave…..because he told her that. She believed him and well, it might have happened if she’d tried. Sometimes it does. Maybe that sounds overly dramatic for Lost’s case, but sometimes it seems both easier and safer to not confront until he reaches a crisis point which it obviously did with this OW.
I think what happens sometimes when the FWs leave their wives for the younger model, is not only replacing someone physically, but also older women develop backbone and strength and personality and start….”standing up” to the FWs and having their own opinions, their own way of doing things, and FWs who are frequently insecure, want to have very compliant spouses and this is probably more likely found in a younger person who does not yet have the strength and confidence that comes with age and life experience. I think it’s more about control than sex. They want to control their spouses completely so they don’t have anyone standing up to them or challenging them. They don’t want someone who “talks back”. I don’t mean to leave out male Chumps experiences but I think some of the experiences of men and women in this area are different, and this is what I see for the female Chumps particularly.
“but also older women develop backbone and strength and personality and start….”standing up” to the FWs and having their own opinions, their own way of doing things, and FWs who are frequently insecure, want to have very compliant spouses ”
I think there is much truth to this.
I know my fw didn’t want me to work, but I wanted to work part time in the school when my son started first grade. I also started taking college classes as I could afford them on my meager paycheck. FW reluctantly agree to it, mostly because his mom convinced him.
Then when my son started 12th grade, I got hired full time by DoD. They didn’t have a position for me because of a hiring freeze, so I went to work in a bank until a position opened up.
I remember the fw didn’t like it, but went along. I think I signed my drop kick warrant at that time. 🤷♀️
Unfortunately I think so too. Many of them seem to want something more to own than love and be in partnership with even if that means they have to carry the whole financial ball. Most women don’t want to stay home full time once the kids are of age but it sounds like that’s the level of control he wanted over you. No money = real dependency.
There’s definitely an element of gender inequality in cheating– some expectation of exaggerated gender roles. It probably sounds completely vain but add this to the annals of social science: When I found out about the affair, I never felt the AP in my situation was “more attractive” even if more than a decade younger than me because I was a 39 year old, conventionally attractive “8” with smooth skin and at thigh gap and she was a 25 year old “3” with pitted acne scars and a beer belly.
I lose a point for c-section scar and bony elbows. But it wasn’t about appearance. I don’t think it ever really is. It wasn’t even about pleasant personality because the AP had a voice like nails on a chalkboard and was so nasty at work that two coworkers tracked me down and informed me of the affair out of sheer vengeance. It was about suck-upery. She certainly had that on me. She was the queen of no-contradictory-opinions and scrubbing FW’s pee rings from around her toilet without complaint. I concede defeat.
I don’t think gender inequity affects only she-chumps because of the number of stories of kind, good-provider male chumps who are betrayed for knuckle-dragging mega-creeps.
Just a general comment – substance abusers, including alcoholics, have more in common with each other than they do with non substance abusers…..they will always seek out other substance abusers for companionship. Lost, you don’t have much in common with this man and haven’t for a long time…..3 years out drinking with this whore every night tells you who he has things in common with. You’re so much more substantial than either of them.
When did he start drinking heavily, Lost? Did it start 3 years ago or was he drinking heavily before or was he a secret drinker? Did he have a history in the past? It doesn’t really matter in the long run (except that your children should KNOW this) but it may help you to remove yourself from any lingering regrets or feelings that you caused this, etc. You shouldn’t have turned a blind eye to the drinking but this is a character defect the two of them SHARE together and to substance abusers their drinking and drugs and the behavior around it, are more important, literally, than anything else in their lives including their own children.
In these types of situations, nonsense abounds, and closure is unlikely. I struggled to come to a place of radical acceptance that way, but it brought me to a place of peace. My ex was a horrible person, but I was choosing to go on in life without him. Whatever happened to him after that was his responsibility, period.
I know of a local situation very similar to this where the OW tried to become what the ex-wife “friend” was, thinking that her new life with the wayward husband would be just like her friend’s.
Nope. He got fed up sometime after the divorce was final and moved on to another sidepiece. Then the “friend” OW went crying to his divorced wife. The divorced wife refused any contact with the OW, “I’m sorry that you are going through a rough time, but I’m not the one to talk to about this. Take care.”
“When the OW’s husband cheated on her and their marriage broke down, I helped her so much. I talked to her, fed her, etc. I even invited her to join FW and me on her first Valentine’s Day after her separation so that she wasn’t alone.”
Oh, Lost. Big hugs to you. I hate it how your incredible kindness, conscientiousness and agreeableness has been weaponized against you by these FWs. They are to blame. Full stop. Most of us would give anything to have a real and true friend like you in this world. (You most certainly are worth copying! 😉) Chumps are such awesome folks. I’m so sorry for what you’re going through, and I wish you healing, peace, and a kickass settlement.
Let me suggest an adaptation to lawyering up. Forward the “I wanna meet” email to your lawyer and get the lawyer to send your proposed settlement (a very generous one) to FW’s lawyer. If he really wants to settle, ask for everything you want and see what happens.
There’s other good news, really. Your story includes that three-year interval when he was essentially DrunkFW hanging out with NeighborHo. So you have incontrovertible proof that DrunkFW traded down. Forget her age and her creepy Wannabe-Single White Female act. Forget her attempts to copy you. Sitting in a bar every night, ignoring your kids for THREE YEARS? The FW showed his true poor character, his actual life priorities, when for years he pretended to be a committed husband and father, at least on some level. And to take up with a woman he needs to make-over? Whooo boy. Not to mention that he clearly has a drinking problem. That’s a downgrade for sure. Understanding what his actions demonstrate about HIM can help you move past any doubts you have about yourself or any thoughts that you shoulda woulda coulda done something to prevent him from leading his dick run his life.
What you were thinking and doing for that 3 years is something to look at, once you’ve got the divorce sorted. You don’t ever again want to be tied to someone with so little concern for you, your feelings, or your kids. The first night FW came home drunk would have been the dealbreaker for me, having learned my lesson from marrying a man who loved being the life of the bar. The question for all of us is why we made our needs so small, why we settled for lives with people whose behavior shows contempt for us. But those are questions for later. Get that divorce.
And don’t be surprised if he stops paying bills. Don’t assume he will continue to do the right thing. If you can, put money aside, whether in cash or gift cards, etc. Get the kids to the dentist, the eye doctor, etc. Make sure there are good brakes and tires on your car. Fix anything that needs to be fixed. Pay off any bills you have. (And you of course have your own bank account and credit card, right?).
Yes they dont think about consequences. Thats why some people are surprised when the get caught and go to jail. They really believe they will get away with murder.