UBT: ‘I Got Myself Into a Relationship’
Dear Chump lady
I’m a 48 year old UK chump who was very relieved to come across your book and blog a year after my marriage ended, you and fellow chumps have kept me sane and I’ll never be able to thank you enough.
I put myself in the category of being abandoned by my fuckwit, no attempt to reconcile, no pick me dancing. As you perfectly describe he was a polar-vortex-Lake-Michigan-in-February-ice- ice-baby-cold kind of sociopath. When he left we had been together for 24 years, married for 20 years with a 16 year old daughter.
It was devastating for my daughter and I, the months after were tough, discovering he had been living a double life with the affair partner and her 3 children for 15 months and finding out so many of our friends and family knew while we were kept in the dark, the betrayal ran deep.
My daughter (now 19) has no relationship with her dad or his family. This is her decision and it has been hard for her, totally her choice. I have struggled with this, but reading of so many other chumps in the same situation has helped me accept this.
In hindsight I should have always known he would behave this way as his own father had done the same not once, but twice. He had always made out he was horrified by this and would never do the same, he put on a good act. I’m a chump, I believed him.
The divorce was slow and painful but it is done and I’m relieved, it was finalized appropriately on a Tuesday a few weeks ago and I feel finally I’m at MEH, two days later I get a text message which I have not and will not respond to, but I would really like for you to put it through the UBT, I feel it would be a lovely way to sign off my road to recovery with you and fellow chumps.
Hi Happy It’s Tuesday
I’m assuming you’ve seen the divorce was finalised on Tuesday. I wasn’t sure whether to call you to see how you were or leave you for a while… We knew it was coming but still a shock.
I didn’t know what to say either, I’ve apologised so many times and will keep doing so, not that will ever make up for my actions…
My life with you up to 2020 had been amazing and I hope you don’t feel like you wasted those years. We had so many good times and raised (you mostly!) an amazing beautiful daughter. Please keep her on the right path!
I can’t explain why I did what I did, but I got myself into a relationship and ended up not wanting to hurt anyone. Please believe me I didn’t!
I sincerely hope you find some peace and happiness soon, you deserve it !!
And if you ever need help please ask.
Sincerely
FW
Your faithfully
Happy It’s Tuesday
***
Dear Happy It’s Tuesday,
I’ve been running this blog for 11 years, and I’m still gobsmacked that FWs send these kind of missives. He lives a double life for 15 months — that you’re aware of — and destroys a 20 year marriage, but a text message of faux regrets is supposed to make it all better?
You know what says sorry? A generous settlement and not dragging out the divorce. They never do the tangible things. It’s always blather.
Fortunately, I have a patented Universal Bullshit Translator that eats blather for breakfast.
I’m assuming you’ve seen the divorce was finalised on Tuesday.
I don’t know if you’re aware that our months-long divorce was finalized on Tuesday. I’m sure dissolving a 20 year marriage is just a casual thing for you, and it might’ve skipped your notice.
I miss cake. I have no possible reason to be in touch, but I figured a non-apology apology was a last huff of centrality.
I wasn’t sure whether to call you to see how you were or leave you for a while…
I am a sensitive person just tip-toeing around a bitter rhinoceros. Should I call? Slip a note under your windshield wiper? Text? I just want to know how you are! Hopefully devastated over losing the wonderfulness of me.
We knew it was coming but still a shock.
We’re in this shock thing together. Sure, it was my decision to have a double life, but divorces are nebulous funnel clouds. You can predict them, but wow, you never expect them to tear your roof off.
I didn’t know what to say either, I’ve apologised so many times and will keep doing so, not that will ever make up for my actions…
Expect more text messages. Do you have my golf shoes? I’m sorry… do you have my golf shoes?
My life with you up to 2020 had been amazing
And then the shiny wore off. You failed to enchant. But you had a good run as a wife appliance.
and I hope you don’t feel like you wasted those years.
It’s really important to me that you think I’m awesome, and project that to the world. WE WERE GREAT UNTIL 2020!
Just because your 24-year-long investment in me ended in stone cold abandonment, that’s no reason to have hard feelings.
We had so many good times
I can’t recall any specifics. But they were good. Good times!
and raised (you mostly!) an amazing beautiful daughter.
Who I replaced with three shiny new children.
Please keep her on the right path!
I’d give actual advice, but that would mean I give a shit. So instead, here’s a platitude you can read any way you want to. Avoid expressways? Don’t forget your multivitamin? Don’t be a knucklehead?
Whatever 19-year-olds require, tag, you’re it to provide it. #youmostly
I can’t explain why I did what I did,
I can, but I won’t. “Because I’m a sociopath” is ugly. I prefer Understanding Wise Sage. Keep on the right path! Eat your vegetables!
but I got myself into a relationship
As one does. I just moved in with a woman and her three children one day. Like Goldilocks. I wonder what the porridge is like here? Next thing I know, I’m sitting at the table having breakfast. For 15 months.
and ended up not wanting to hurt anyone
Now I remember! I have a wife and child. What could I do? Everyone wants to serve me breakfast! Turn down pancakes?
I cheat because I CARE. I don’t want to hurt anyone, which is why I abandoned you for spaghetti carburetors. Hufflepuff! Skip the puck in the chimney, Alfred. I need an enema.
(I’m sorry. The UBT is malfunctioning. I need to clear the chute. Too much bullshit…)
Whack!
Please believe me I didn’t!
I hurt people.
Makes me feel central.
Miss me? I need a hit of your pain.
I sincerely hope you find some peace and happiness soon, you deserve it !!
I sincerely hope you never get over me. I might need another appliance if this one craps out. Or I want pancakes.
And if you ever need help please ask.
I thrill to your weakness. Call me!
***
Ugh. Happy It’s Tuesday, keep rocking the no contact. I need to go find some Lebkuchen. The UBT is fried.
Yet another Cheater demanding centrality. The line “I’m assuming you’ve seen the divorce was finalised on Tuesday” is blatant hoovering ….. because a Chump is hardly going to miss something as significant as the finalisation of as their divorce; particularly when nine times out of ten, it’s the Chump doing all the divorcing and the Cheater just making things as slow, expensive and as difficult as possible.
Absolutely not something to break “No Contact” over; block, ignore and move on.
LFTT
Happy It’s Tuesday — mine was the same, but longer. 5 days after the divorce was finalized I got an email that ticked all the same boxes:
For any newbies who’ve never seen it, here it is
OMG….that letter could take the place of Ipecac. Did you ever respond to any of it? I would hope not but sometimes invective slips out of all of us. Personally I have a big mouth, a sharp tongue and a long memory.
Wow, FWs ability to distort reality seems to apply to age as well. FW in my case told his therapist and barfly enablers that the fact he was 32 when our first child was born was “too young,” never mind that I was younger. He pretended he was entrapped by children even though it took an enthusiastic, dedicated 11 month dual effort to get pregnant the first time because his motility was apparently slowing down. Then after D-Day he kept going on about how the AP was “so young” as if this would make me less terrified that he hadn’t used condoms. Really? The AP was pushing thirty and had been doing rawdog anal Tinder hookups since college. Maybe the beer gut, bloated face, adult acne, squawky lisp, Harry Potter obsession and Disney tatts created some kind of toddler illusion?
I remember being baffled and saying, “You know who’s actually ‘too young’ to be going through any of this horror? Our kids.”
“The AP was pushing thirty and had been doing rawdog anal Tinder hookups since college. Maybe the beer gut, bloated face, adult acne, squawky lisp, Harry Potter obsession and Disney tatts created some kind of toddler illusion?”
🤮
I asked for every STD panel known to man because– without my consent– it seems I’d been proxy fucking dozens of randos for two years. Who knew? Not I.
On doctor’s orders, I’m still being double screened for HPV cancer because of it and will be for the next decade or so. Learning things like this does a real number on one’s general outlook.
ugh, her letter…. what a load of BS!
Wow, she was just really hoping for a reaction!!!!
The last attempt my EXFW made was mostly to tell be how horrible I was. He touched on everything to the way I looked, my hair, my weight, my age to all my personality traits. He then told me that I was gaslighting him!!!!!!!!!! I was just so horrible that he had to cheat. It was a crap ton of projection. At least, I recognized that it was about getting a response from me so he could show people what an angry horrible bitter bunny I was. What he got was silence. Nothing since then and that was over 6 months ago when he had to make the last payout to me.
He no longer has a faithful appliance and he lost a relationship with our son. I am pretty certain that he feels nothing. He is just empty.
Wow, that’s a lot of exertion to try to wreck your self esteem and convince you that “no one will ever want you.” According to the FW cockblocking (or twat-blocking in the case of she-FWs) translator, I’m guessing you’re glowing these days in a way that FW finds very disconcerting, look disquietingly youthful, your hair is much too shiny and you’re more and more relaxed and charming. The FW rule book does not allow those things.
If it existed at the time, she surely would have qualified for FW of the Week several times over. Sorry you had to deal with that beast.
I’ve just read it! Ooooh, cheeky bitch, ain’t she?? What a load of old guff!
Bet you’re glad to be shot of her!
Sociopath says, “I got myself into a relationship.” Like it unexpectedly fell from the sky and he couldn’t avoid being hit. Good grief. These lying liars who lie are so ridiculous. Getting into a relationship while you already have a relationship involves so many deliberate decisions and lies. Hundreds and thousands of actions and lies that lead to more and more lies.
They do it because they enjoy it. Lying to the Wife Appliance/Mommy is thrilling. A secret second life is thrilling. They need to stick to their own kind instead of marrying people who are capable of love and attachment.
They wouldn’t stick to their own kind because a) they know their kind is worthless and b) the deception is the point.
But if they marry their own kind, who can they trick and manipulate? Abusing Wife Appliance/Mommy is the whole point!
I think they go back and forth between one and the other. Knowing APs/co-cheaters are obviously the same “abuser tribe” as FWs and probably very much like toxic members their families of origin. I know in my case that FW had switched from one to the other his entire dating life. He’d chase a mommy-scented psychopath, predictably get burned, then switch back to “wholesome chump” as a reprieve, then eventually get tired of having to wear a disguise, would long to “be himself” and then find another familiar psycho, get burned again, rinse repeat.
They “got themselves into a relationship” the same way they got crabs off a toilet seat.
“I’m assuming you’ve seen the divorce was finalised on Tuesday”.
No shit ding dong she had to sign it to make it finalized. -_-
“I wasn’t sure whether to call you to see how you were or leave you for a while”
I wasn’t sure how to adequately bother you so I could make sure you’re still my backup plan or if you like really for sure meant it when you signed it…
“… We knew it was coming”
There’s that cheater royal “we.” He ruined the marriage but it was “we” saw it coming. *eyeroll*
“but still a shock.”
So you DID mean it…like for realsies. I’m shocked you aren’t trying to beg for me. …So you’re SURE sure?
“I didn’t know what to say either,”
So I sent this word salad.
“I’ve apologised so many times and will keep doing so, not that will ever make up for my actions…”
Come ON! I SAID SORRY! Jeeze!
“My life with you up to 2020 had been amazing “
Yeah, I cheated because of COVID. That’s what everyone is saying now, right?
“I hope you don’t feel like you wasted those years. We had so many good times”
Maybe if you remember “those good times” (are you thinking of them yet?) then you’ll remember how awesome I am and do that begging I thought you were gonna do. I mean, I need you to be ready to take me back once my schmoopie gets bored.
“and raised (you mostly!) an amazing beautiful daughter.”
Yeah, I’m going to acknowledge that YOU did most the childrearing but still take credit for how she turned out.
“Please keep her on the right path!”
You’re still going to have to do the rest of the parenting, but make her start talking to me again, thanks!
“I can’t explain why I did what I did, but I got myself into a relationship”
It’s SO WEIRD like…I walked into Walmart and got myself a new polo shirt, a pack of socks, and a new girlfriend!
“and ended up not wanting to hurt anyone. Please believe me I didn’t!”
I just wanted to have my wife love me and tell me how awesome I am AND a girlfriend
sucking my dick and everyone live happily ever after! Really that’s what I wanted!
“I sincerely hope you find some peace and happiness soon, you deserve it !!”
Happiness as long as it doesn’t involve getting a new partner who’s better than me. Remember I’m still gonna need that backup plan. You deserve like…a cookie or a new pair of shoes.
“And if you ever need help please ask”
…So…like you meant for REAL for real on that…divorce?
Just another cheater trying to collect some kibble. They love popping in and out. I just celebrated my first year of freedom without hearing a peep from FW. I guess he figured his last two attempts did not get him even a crumb of kibble so why bother. He has not tried to make contact with my son either (my son’s choice was total NC with him and his family). It is peaceful.
Going to meet my son this weekend. We decided to meet up halfway between where he is stationed with the Navy and where I live. We will celebrate the year of being FW Free and just do some sightseeing. I just hope one day my son will find a loving young lady. I know they are out there, but the dating world seems to be crazy regardless of age.
If I’ve learned anything from sociopaths, it’s that they will pop in and out of our lives forever if we let them. They are parasites. They will never stop showing up looking for kibbles. They will never stop trying to derail our progress. It doesn’t matter how long ago the breakup was, they think we belong to them forever. They’re like dogs pissing on fire hydrants.
The only solution is no contact, which means blocking all avenues.
Of course you can’t do that if you share minor children, but even that has an end date.
Yes, I am so thankful that I do not a young kid. My son is going to be 28 soon and is in the Navy. He was an adult and in various parts of the world since the start of this. Happily, he is only a six-hour drive away now. He has been home (well my new house) several times since arriving at his new station and I have gone to see him.
No contact has been pretty easy, and I think Fuckwit has realized that no one is serving him kibble anymore. I will make the leap and guess that he found some other sources. I really don’t care.
Happy, you just keep on doing whatever to raise a great kid that he donated genetic material for! I am living this fuckwittery right now.
I was unfortunately forced to speak to klootzak earlier this week as he had not yet set up the parenting app (he couldn’t find the time!) and I wanted to memorialize (audio record) his commitment to be back in town by Thursday so I can attend Chumpapalooza this weekend. He started going down the rabbit hole talking about how much time we should each have with our child. I said it is very telling that ever since I said I wanted to separate, instead of bringing his A game as a parent and showing up for our child at a difficult time, he is gone more than ever. He responded, “But I HAVE TO be gone for work! It’s not like I have a choice.” I said, “You haven’t JUST been gone for work,” and he said “I haven’t taken THAT much more time….” #youmostly
My state does not allow audio recording inside the house so I dragged him outside to the sidewalk to talk. lol He wasn’t on the parenting app yet and I wanted documentation of his craziness. You can’t make this stuff up. We are appliances to them. Klootzak fails to understand my hostility.
Clever you for checking recording laws and getting this stuff on tape.
I’m actually even better than that. My neighbor across the street has a Ring camera pointed out his window straight at our house and will hand me the footage or review to see if anyone messes around my place. So I have the video that aligns with the audio. I have done next level planning. lol
Yay! Love the pluck and what a great neighbor. Better to have the solid proof of fuckery and not need it than need it and not have it.
It really sucked that the state I was in has made recording without all-party consent a felony. It’s where justice goes to die since this makes it incredibly difficult to prove DV or related threats, workplace harassment or institutional abuse.
I recommend everyone check their regional recording laws and get as much on tape as possible. If a FW was genuinely dangerous and lives are at risk, I would probably record even where not allowed and then try to press for the theoretical legal loophole of “in the public interest.”
I also need to make sure I document any threats by him to get a restraining order, if need be. Everyone definitely needs to confirm the rules in their jurisdiction!
Yes, safety first! I’d be investing in every kind of James Bond spy gadget. Pens and hats with night vision cameras and audio, ring cameras, you name it. I got the security cameras because apparently the AP discussed my violent demise when drunk and came from some militant nutbag family. Fortunately nothing came of it.
Way to go!!! I am so glad that you are on your way out. When I read your older posts, I envisioned you being in a kind of bunker just getting your ducks in a row before you went to all-out war.
Keep on with collecting everything you can. Glad you are so prepared. It does take a long time, but it does end.
Yeah, I got one of those “memories I will cherish for a lifetime” emails. All of which were completely tainted by 36 years of cheating, but whatever …
I was lucky, though, in that he mirrored the same utter indifference to our divorce as he had our marriage and agreed to the terms of the divorce and settlement immediately. 31 days later, it was done.
You will never need him to “help”, though he’d love some of that cake! Also, block him so you never have to read anything he’s written you again. That freedom from an FWs verbal vomit is priceless!
“He had always made out he was horrified by this and would never do the same, he put on a good act. I’m a chump, I believed him.”
My father was a FW. My X also stated that both his father and his mother had cheated. He expressed his horror and we swore we’d never ever be able to carry out such behavior. We pledged that we would always come and talk about anything before we would cheat on each other.
I ate that shit up. I swallowed it hook, line and sinker. I worked my ass off to be up to his standards. He’d make remarks about others (I now I realize it was to see what my reaction would be.) And then say something like, “if you ever cheated like that on me, I’d take the kid and leave.”
Guess who’d been screwing around forever?! And it wasn’t me!
I heard the same comments from ex, he would be appalled when finding out someone he knew cheated. He could never cheat, he isn’t that kind of guy, he’s a man of integrity.
I was lucky to be married to him because he was trustworthy unlike other guys.
I believed him. It gave me a false sense of security which I now believe was his intention.
If I was convinced he’d never cheat, anything he did or said that was questionable I’d be more likely to ignore because he isn’t that kind of guy.
It worked, I ignored my gut feelings when his stories didn’t align or if something felt off. If I did question him when things felt off he’d accuse me of being paranoid or being insecure. He’d accuse me of never being happy, looking for something to argue about.
I was beginning to think I was losing my mind.
He wasn’t that kind of guy so there had to be something wrong with me for questioning him.
Looking back, the stories about other guys cheating on business trips weren’t the “other guys” and I believe he got some sort of perverse pleasure in telling me about the other guys and seeing my disgust when they were actually his.
I believe ex FW was doing this “testing” with me as well. Absolutely disgusting the simultaneous dissonance and calculated planning that went on in his head.
Happy it’s Tuesday wrote, “I feel finally I’m at MEH, two days later I get a text message…”
Of course you got a text. Expect this or out-of-the-blue visits whenever you reach various freedom milestones because abusers are typically telepathic and, even from thousands of miles away, sense on the wind the very moments when former victims have really broken free.
If anyone ever wants proof that cheating relates to domestic violence (all the sadistic fun but with less physical exertion, chafed knuckles, blood and legal consequences!), it’s the way abusers always show up like bad pennies when victims move on. It’s exactly what batterers do. It seems pretty clear that abusers– for the sake of their sick equilibrium– need to believe that their victims will remain curled up in defeated heaps crying the abusers’ names forever and unable to move forward.
Read the text for what it is: attempted psychic cock-blocking. He’s worried you’ll have a fabulous life and find love again at which point he’ll be up nights gnashing his teeth and fantasizing about revenge. I think abusers know this about themselves which is why some do the Houdini routine and try to “never look back.” Yet they always do.
Bear in mind that this can sometimes be a risky moment and increase security.
First time posting.
The day after my divorce was finalized on zoom (he dragged it on forever….), I got this email. He is nothing if not consistent. It would be comical… except of course that it isn’t. (I did not reply, of course. By then I had finally learned.)
“friday was a sad day for me. i’m not sure how it was for you but i wanted to acknowledge all the pain i’ve caused you. i am truly sorry for that. if i could go back in time, my actions would have been different. i’m pretty certain of that. but i know i can’t. in any event, friday seemed like too big an event to just pass by without noting it.”
One thing I notice, both here and in today’s post, is that they are always quite vague about “pain I’ve caused you” or “I did what I did.” WHAT?! WHAT did you do? Why can’t you name it? WHAT is this amorphous “pain” you caused? Why can’t you say, “I’m sorry I betrayed you and our entire family by cheating.” Or, “I’m sorry I wrecked our family by cheating.”
Why are they vague? Because they still aren’t really taking responsibility for it.
Not too fond of capitalization, is he.
There always “pretty certain” that if they could go back in time and change the decisions they made, they would. I’m completely certain they wouldn’t.
I noticed the no caps email/text thing is common among NY Times reporters so I looked it up. Apparently it goes back to the old wire service. https://jacklimpert.com/2012/10/why-some-journalists-write-everything-in-lower-case/
It seems to be such a press culture thing that I’d hesitate to call it pretentious but it certainly is if someone isn’t a journalist lol.
Hoover, hoover, hoover, checking whether that door is still open for booty call/coddling/kibble when he’s depressed or feeling dejected, hoover, hoover, hoover, emotional cockblocking-by-inserting-thoughts-of-himself-into-your-brain-because-you-are-not-allowed-to-move-on, hoover.
I had a second-generation FW too. His father divorced his second wife to immediately get with a much-much younger woman, and whaddya know, my FW went and did likewise several years afterwards.
Of course when his father did HIS fuckwittery, my FW expressed shock and horror at the behavior. (eye roll emoji)
Both those idiots had an amazing skill of deciding what their reality was, then trying to speak it into existence to other people.
My FW has a narcissist mother who, I’m convinced, is a lifelong cheater. She had six kids by four different men.
FW’s bio dad also had kids by several women, and was out of the picture before FW was out of diapers.
Enter FW’s abusive, cheating step-dad (likely his mom’s AP) and so it goes…
FW claimed to have been scarred for life both by his bio dad’s abandonment and his step-dad’s cheating.
Ironically, FW is a lifelong cheater who has abandoned his two older children, as well as the toddler he fathered after I dumped him.
Nature or nurture? Or both?
I read a long paper by a geneticist named Leavit who argued that genes don’t code for specific behavior in humans– one of the reasons that eugenics was such a stupid endeavor. But apparently genetic susceptibility is another kettle of fish. Like, say, take a baby with exceptional hearing and sensitive nervous system and stick them in a loud, violent, aggressive environment. Theoretically they’d be more traumatized than average. Whether the trauma manifested as “internalization” and aggressive adult behavior or someone who despised bullying and injustice probably depends on other factors. I’m not sure it matters since a lot of abusive adults will tailor their abuse to whatever breaks victims. Maybe some people just have more “dedicated” abusers in childhood.
One theory is the “bullet proof child” concept where, due to even a single positive adult influence, some very traumatized kids can grow up to be sensitive and justice-oriented. In any case, considering his background, I think my own dad could have been some horribly violent, drunken criminal if it wasn’t for one uncle and a couple of secondary teachers who took an interest in him. Instead he ended up an artist, animal lover and “feminist ally” who spoke for the NOW org on equality in education, married once and didn’t drink. Go figure.
Seriously how stupid are FWs??
“I’m assuming you’ve seen the divorce was finalised on Tuesday. I wasn’t sure whether to call you to see how you were or leave you for a while… We knew it was coming but still a shock.”
Who’s “WE”?? There is no WE. Does he mean Happy and himself? Or AP and himself?? Who was in shock? Why would it be a shock for the divorce to be finalized? FW destroyed the marriage… drug out the divorce… and then I’m sure was TOLD you’d get the divorce finalization by mail, right? So he received it and it’s still a “shock”? And he thinks Happy would like a phone call from the FW that made this shit happen? WTF
“I didn’t know what to say either, I’ve apologised so many times and will keep doing so, not that will ever make up for my actions…”
Ummmm…there’s no apology there. Just an “I already apologized a zillion times and I’ll keep doing it”…. Er ok. So he says. But there’s no “I’m so sorry” — there’s no actual apologizing for anything. Just the gaslighting that it happened. He’s an idiot.
“And if you ever need help please ask.”
Huh?? Why would Happy call him??
This entire message was so ludicrous, I couldn’t even. Thank you UBT for tackling this. But seriously, this FW is truly a complete idiot.
I agree. There is no “we” after it’s final. I didn’t have custody issues, but that much I got. The college kids were now “my kids,” and I was driving “my car” and paying bills from “my account.”
I noticed how my ex overused that pronoun during closeout.
Elsie– They do tend to whip out the “we-ness” and wave it around a lot when feeling thwarted lol.
My attorney called it the “royal we.” My STBX had figuratively burned the marriage down and broken up the foundation, and yet “we.” Nope.
The royal we-ness– sort of like the crown jewels.
Please block him. The divorce is finalized and your daughter is a legal adult. There’s no reason to keep open paths of communication anymore. Anything important can go through your lawyer, assuming you have one.
If you need to keep him unblocked for some reason, don’t respond to anything that isn’t strictly organizational (i.e. “Where should I send the settlement check?”).
He’s tapdancing for your attention. Deny him that with your indifference. Don’t respond.
Guess this letter unlocked another scar for me… being wary of dating men w/crappy fathers. Like this letter writer, my FW ex’s dad cheated on and left his mom. For years my ex said how he never wanted to do what his dad did, he hated what his dad did to his mom. Guess who turned around and did the same thing! (At least he did it 7 years and only 1 kid into the marriage instead of 3 kids and 26 years later.) Now if I’m on a date, and they talk about their dad and he was also a cheater, liar, or criminal, I’m much, much less likely to want to see them again. Is that fair? Of course not, people aren’t destined to become their parents. So far FW ex’s brother’s have managed to avoid the same fate.
That said, if the example of what it takes to be a husband and a father is a selfish and crappy one, some people do internalize and normalize that behavior, whatever they may claim to anyone else.
My ex’s dad was a respected traveling preacher, and frankly his family was as messed up as my nominally Christian family. I decided early on to be quiet and observe them, and I pretty much learned what their issues were right away. One was that the “submissive” mom was frankly a tyrant, and then they were all major gossips, both about each other and about other people. The parents didn’t know how to resolve conflict and would stonewall each other for long periods of time, sometimes never resolving issues at all. There were also secrets buried that I suspected which came to light later.
So my lesson was not to assume that preachers and their families are truly not any better than the rest of us. His family tried to strong-arm me into blind reconciliation, saying that they had a family name to uphold and blaming my marginally religious background for my refusals. Ah, no. I was selective about what I told them and went my own way just before the attorneys got involved.
I can only imagine what they were told during the divorce.
Yep, my cheater’s dad was a cheater, gambler and alcoholic.
Of course I didn’t know all this when we married. FW swore he would never drink, as he didn’t want to become his dad. As far as I know once he quit drinking he never resumed, but he evidently carried on with cheating and some controlled gambling. I didn’t find out until years later of course. Once married to the whore-worker he went on to cheat and gamble out in the open big time, (she evidently liked to gamble too) after a short stint of trying to be a preacher, I guess no one bought that lie. Anyway he and whore-worker gambled themselves into bankruptcy. And true to form blamed everyone else for their woes.
“Reenactment compulsion.” FW didn’t know whether his father had ever cheated but his entire extended family bears the tell-tale marks and legacy of sexual violence buried somewhere in their recent ancestry. Towards the end of her life, FW’s paternal aunt admitted she’d been molested as a child and FW’s mother was like some psycho, knee-jerk PR agent for batterers and child molesters.
Not kidding. I worked in DV advocacy so it was normal to occasionally talk about cases or related legislation. ExMIL would go berserk every time the subject came up, getting agitated and angry and talking about how “kids make things up” and battered women “aren’t so innocent.” She was a devotee of a very culty Yoga sect founded by an infamous child molester and only doubled down her devotion after the guy was exposed in global headlines for raping dozens of young women and children. I had the sense that, all her life, exMIL had been “groveling for amnesty” from the rapey ghosts of her FOO by showing fanatical loyalty to and enforcing on behalf of all abusers. It turned out later that, in a sense, she’d been exhorting FW to be abusive towards me as she had with all his past girlfriends.
Talk about “internalizing.” It took years to learn all these things so there weren’t immediate red flags but, after D-Day, I realized that, as much as he seemed to resent his parents, FW was basically like a sexually warped Manchurian candidate who’d been brainwashed and trained from birth and who could be suddenly triggered into his training by various random cues. Then it’s like he’d do a 180 and his entire personality would change, going from his normative cover of “groovy woke modern dude” to “patriarchal creep” in 60 seconds.
Too bad there’s no “exorcism” for creepy ancestor demon possession. Thank God I’m the hand that rocked the cradle since my sons show no affinity to any of this behavior and the pattern appears to have been broken.
Hand raised for the his-parent-was-a-cheating-narcissistic-piece-of-shit-and-he-ended-up-just-like-him narrative. It was one of the things that blew my mind the most (right behind the fact that someone could do this to someone else in the first place). What a great cover, huh? Had me and so many others fooled for 8 years, and I’m sure he still gets off to it.
His dad was a cheater and a drunk. Fuckwit decided to become a cheater and a drunk, because that turned out so well for his dad, who died miserable and alone. 🙄
Hey, if he was capable of common sense and introspection, he wouldn’t be a fuckwit!
Are you catching a whiff of subconscious suicidal tendencies there?
I have two areas of thought here. The first is….of course, don’t respond to this missive, what’s the point. NO CONTACT. This was not a mistake or the result of a stroke or being possessed by aliens – he made many decisions to engage in this behavior and that led to this moment. These were his choices and if he had to do it again…he WOULD do it again. It’s the way he is. The snake bites. However, I do think that the letter is genuine and that he’s expressing genuine feelings to the extent that such a shallow person can feel anything. I would take it as as much of an apology and expression of regret that someone like this can make and accept it in that way. This probably is the best he can do as self recognition and trying to make teeny amends for results he’s far too shallow and self absorbed to really understand and appreciate. That may or may not help how you feel, but that’s how I’d view it. Sometimes people make gallows confessions and those are actually genuine but they don’t make any difference – there’s a dead body somewhere. He did what he did and it had the effects that it had and you are, Thank God, done with him. So I wouldn’t bother analyzing it or thinking about it, I’d just nod and chuck it in the trash and move on. NO CONTACT. NO LOOKING AT SOCIAL MEDIA. Leave him behind like the bad smell that he is. He is what he is and they rarely change. He’d do it again if he had it to do over again. It’s likely he’ll do it again to the next one and the one after that.
The other point is precautionary….about things to look for before you get too deep into a relationship. This is for all of us. LOOK AT YOUR PARTNER’S FAMILY. If they are effed up, your partner probably will be, and probably either in the same way or in some reaction against it. This is not always true of course, but it’s true enough that people should always consider it. If Mom or Dad is a POS (and sometimes other relatives too) then there’s a good possibility that My Tru Wuv will eventually go the same way. It’s the pattern that they’re used to, it’s what they know. Always consider what the family is like and don’t necessarily think that your person is going to really be different…some things also emerge at a later stage or after certain events, like having a baby. There is evidence as well that cheating may have a biological component for some people – possibly genetic – people who are natural risk taker types seem to be more inclined to cheat and that may be a trait that runs in families like alcoholism. Some of these things run together – cheating, mental illness, alcoholism. So don’t be fooled by twu wuv – trust but verify. Look at the problems in your partner’s family and consider how he or she might be affected. And have that talk before you get in too deep. He did turn out to be Daddy’s Boy after all.
I agree; at least in my own FW’s case, these kinds of communications (“The day of the divorce hits hard, no?” “We had lots of good times together” “I messed up but I really wish you well”) did come from the heart. That said, in true FW style, he too needed to keep the tone “good-guy light,” apart from the week just after D-Day when he was stricken with remorse and offered true apologies. In his case, I think that week, in which he fully owned how he had hurt me, was so devastating to him that thereafter he protected himself by just flipping through the “channels” of rage, self-pity, and (the good-guy option) charm.
Oh brother. Sounds SO much like my own FW’s notes to me.
The casual tone. The fauxpology. The insistence that all was great in our marriage for the first 25 years (with an added rebuke of me for thinking otherwise). The “it just happened” nonsense. The I never meant to hurt you (just fell in love and think I’ll be happier with her.”) And even the ending about staying in touch if you need help. I recall something like, “I’ll still care about you always and want to hear how you’re doing but understand if you won’t care about me or be able to forgive.” That kind of thing.
Ugh. It’s all so triggering.
And it reminds me of the post last month (or the month before?) about the FW who insists he’s a nice guy. They want to be considered nice guys who made a little mistake, like forgetting to buy milk. Oops. My bad.
The UBT is spot on here!
” (just fell in love and think I’ll be happier with her.”)”
These ass wipes have no idea what the meaning of wedding vows are. You don’t just fall in love, unless you are expending your time and energy on someone else. That is the whole point of forsake all others, you forsake them before you go to lunch, or sit in the office and shoot the bull, that is indeed what faithful partners do.
They’re so impulsive, like lab rats constantly pressing the lever for another hit.
Impulsivity and sob stories are huge red flags to me now for dangerous people. If someone can’t manage themselves, they’re a liability.
Fauxpology is a perfect term for what they do. And they broadcast to everyone that they apologized when in truth they would do it all again in a heartbeat.
“I’m sorry but …” is not an apology.
In addition to UBT, I wish you could do a Therapeutic Hypothetical Reply Letter.
Dear FW:
Thank you so much for reminding me of the completion of our divorce, and of your centrality in my life! I’m not sure how I will ever manage to remember important dates, meetings, or appointments without your big, shiny brain. As demonstrated by your many affairs, you were always so adept at remembering scheduling conflicts. I’m confident that your amazing attention to time management will assist you in remembering to make all child support payments on time.
I, too, remember the good times. The hors-d’oeuvres at our wedding were quite good, and I’m sure there were some other highlights as well.
I also never intended to hurt you, as demonstrated by my many years of faithful marriage to you where I didn’t, in fact, hurt you. Unless by “hurt” you mean that I didn’t deliver enough effusive praise for your bi-monthly attempts at cooking, which was, of course, the moral equivalent of boning down with your coworker. For that, I am truly sorry, and I promise to flagellate myself on a daily basis in front of the makeshift altar I made of you.
Best wishes, and go forth and die in a manner that suits you best.
Please don’t call or write,
Chump
Ahhhh, that was HILARIOUS. “I promise to flagellate myself on a daily basis in front of the makeshift alter I made of you…”
That was perfect.
I prefer “Fuck off and die.”
Me too, although I never did actually voice that. My attorney (normally a Southern gentleman) could certainly come up with long strings of expletives in regard to my ex and all the games that I found thoroughly amusing. So he did that for me.
I’d like to set that up as an auto-reply to my ExFW.
“I can’t explain why I did what I did,” My FW’s “apology” letter was a little more succinct The first line was “I don’t know why I acted like such a dirt bag”, at least he knew he “acted” like a dirt bag. Though I am sure he didn’t think he actually was one, just temporarily acted like one.
I never answered it, in fact I barely read it, as I stuffed it in my wallet on my way to my part time job, that I had to get to keep me above the poverty line. My wallet got stolen from my purse at work that night, likely a blessing in disguise.
So true: “You know what says sorry? A generous settlement and not dragging out the divorce.” That would also include being decent and kind to someone who went through several decades with you. But my ex victimized himself and made me out to be the crazy, dangerous one when I had scads of evidence of that which I gave to my attorney at the beginning of the divorce.
So, my ex called to say that he wanted a divorce during our long-distance separation. OK, let’s go. He had some blame-and-game for me, of course. I kept saying, “Why are we discussing this if we are divorcing? What do you have to say in regard to the topic of divorce?” He also claimed that he would give me more than the law allowed. I sincerely doubted that, but whatever.
Well, it turns out that he had already picked an attorney (a pitbull with questionable ethics). My ex promised it would “easy.” I think I laughed or said something like, “We’ll see.” Yes, I knew it would be a mess. Completely. My ex emailed me the next day, assuring me that it would be easy.
It wasn’t AT ALL easy. Thankfully, I picked a weighty attorney myself who treated me like a big brother would. Over time, it became clear that my ex’s attorney greatly respected mine and did not want to go to court. That worked in our favor. My settlement was very close to what a judge would award, not what my attorney called “generous” at all. I don’t think he was sorry at all when it came to me. It was “destroy her,” from my chair. But he didn’t.
He later regretted not keeping in contact with our college kids who went no contact and have remained so (their choice). I can’t fathom how someone thinks they deserved a close relationship when you made their childhood chaotic because of addiction/mental health issues, abandoned a family, have minimal contact with your kids in the first year (no face-to-face, no recognition of Christmas/birthdays, etc.), and then put your long-suffering wife through economic hard times and a long, expensive divorce. I truly kept my mouth zipped in regard to their father, but they knew.
My ex’s father was also a cheater… but it goes far beyond that. When he finally left she fell apart completely. She’d discovered affairs in the past but he’d repent and always swore he wouldn’t do it again. But then after 35 years of marriage he finally left her for the other woman, who broke up with him 6 months later.
In any case, my mother-in-law was devastated. Totally broken. Actively suicidal. My ex and I moved in with her for 6 months but it was so stressful that eventually we moved out and rented a place nearby instead. My husband publicly lauded himself for being her “caregiver” during this time, which he still speaks about on spiritual podcasts.
He HATED his father for a long time after this; they didn’t see each other often in the years that followed. But it took until recently for me to realize that my ex didn’t hate his father for the affair; he hated his father because my ex was left to clean up his mess. My ex was a Very Important Man after all, in graduate school for human development and education at a very prestigious university (“boy genius” he liked to call himself, only half joking), and “shouldn’t have had to care for his mother.” Someone else should have. His father. His sister. Someone else. And he resented them for this. (He also very clearly resented his mother, but that’s another story).
So despite there being signs that my husband was cheating on me, I believed naively that he never would… that it would be impossible after seeing the devastation of what his mother went through.
Then I got sick. VERY sick. So sick that I was bedridden for years, struggling to recover from a neurological injury that very nearly killed me and, among other horrific symptoms, kept me in a perpetual state of being unable to trust my own senses, bodily signals, mind or objective reality. And the exact same pattern happened. My ex presented himself as a devoted caregiver / good guy on spiritual podcasts, talking about the sacrifices he was making for me and the transformative aspects of illness and caregiving, etc.
But behind the scenes he resented me, and felt that he shouldn’t have to be the one to care for me. He was in a near constant state of anger and frustration that, in my total incapacitated state, I felt profound guilt for causing. My intuition, dreams, and objective reality including actual evidence were screaming at me that he both resented me and was cheating, but he denied this, confirming to me that I couldn’t trust my brain or body, my intuition or dreams, my soul. The gaslighting was so extreme (my ex also has a deep understanding and background in human psychology, so there’s no chance he didn’t know what he was doing here) that I now have to question how much of my severe cognitive symptoms were due to my brain injury, rather than the years of him manipulating my reality. (My healing accelerated so rapidly after my d-day and divorce that it’s impossible not to wonder).
In any case, by the end of the trickle truth disclosures (he never admitted to anything I couldn’t prove, but I was a decent sleuth) the mask dropped and I saw who he really was several times. And it was shocking. And dark. So, so dark. This was not a simple affair of a man “who got hurt sacrificing everything for me,” as he claimed and still claims (to those he’s willing to admit his affair to, anyway). This pattern of abuse, of sexual entitlement, of rage and addiction (or whatever you want to call it), of living a double life, were there long before I got sick; thankfully I kept a journal for much of this time and have been able to slowly piece together part of the puzzle. I’d like to think he was, at least at first, the “good guy” he presented himself as when we met in college, but without the truth I’ll never know.
Because of my brain injury and the years I spent in an extreme state of not being able to trust reality, I find the withholding of truth (yet still presenting himself as “caring for my soul” and “loving me” and being a “good man who got hurt”) bordering on criminal. I don’t care how great his shame is; to willfully deny me the truth of the 23 years we were together, of my reality, knowing how crucial that is to my ability to recover and move on, is evil. I’m trying so hard to let go of this need for truth. I’ve been no contact since the divorce in January (he still sends little notes with my spousal support checks BTW, saying he loves me and prays that I’m well, occasionally saying a quick “sorry for the lies and abuse” — I do not respond). I just want so badly to know the truth….
Thanks for reading.
I just finished reading “People of the Lie” by Dr. M Scott Peck. I cried because it was so validating. I can’t find the page number, but he takes the stance that any time you have lies, you have evil. They go hand in hand. Page 204, he says that people who lie bring nothing but destruction into the lives of people around them. Peck calls them cowards and us bearers of light.
Chump changed:
I can remember around D-Day wishing there was a magical truth serum I could dose FW with to squeeze every last bit of truth out of him for the same reasons you described– because it would help piece back together my own narrative about what had happened to me, a narrative I felt had been robbed by bullshit and gaslighting. But the interesting thing is that time, distance and getting enough peace to be able to hear my own inner voice and be attuned to gut instincts has filled in the gaps a lot. Just as I started not to really care that much about the details, I started also feeling sure I know the full story. I would wake up with “aha” revelations as the pieces fell together. But by then it was more and more an abstract exercise. I guess that’s why even intuitive people aren’t that great at predicting the stock market: our intuitive faculties don’t really work that well under pressure.
In short, I think the big secret is, in essence, probably that a lot of FWs– she-cheaters included– are, in their secret fantasy lives, total freaks or even quasi would-be serial killers. Except they’re too cowardly to live out their “big ugly dreams” and instead settle for emotional serial rape and torture and symbolic vivisection. The rage and abuse towards victims comes from the shame and defensiveness they have about their super creepy inner darkness. I’m not talking about poor-sad-sausage shame but well-earned, very reasonable shame for being anti-social freaks who aren’t fit for human company. And they know it, which is why they need constant cake and kibble as distractions, like someone whispering in their ears at all times what wonderful people they are. If you think about it, who– other than someone having seizures of self loathing– needs that much buttering up?
All of this is a lot for chumps to digest which is why I think survivors typically can’t fully grasp or imagine the depth of FW ickiness until they’re finally at a safe enough distance to conceive of how very close they came to real danger. Like all mammals, humans are endowed with deeply calibrated instincts about risk and danger and I think being stuck in close proximity to someone who’s secretly fantasizing violence or betrayal and horror can make normal people sick over time.
Ewww, sounds like the Frank T.J. Mackey character from the film Magnolia.
OMG, that is horrific. I am so sorry.
I understand wanting desperately to know what was going on in your own life. Eventually, you just have to accept that you’ll never know.
I’m so glad you got out. When you realize who they are behind the mask, trust that they manipulating jerks if not something more sinister and dangerous.
You have to let go, but yes, it can take awhile before you truly don’t care what they are doing with whom. I can’t pinpoint a date, but it was probably about six months after I finally closed the legal file after a messy closeout. I didn’t get alimony or anything else requiring ongoing contact, so that did make it easier.
This FW is soooo hoping the chump will respond to this none too subtle request for ego fuel. When they do this, you know the shine is coming off the schmoopie already.
HIT, ignore and ignore again, every time he tries this.
OMG what an a…hole…. reminds me to keep my phone blocked so I don’t have to get cheerful messages sounding like “I’m a really nice guy”. please believe me!!! At least we have each other here Happy Big hugs to you…..
Hello all
I am very grateful for all your responses and words of support, also thank you so much Chump Lady for feeding the message into the UBT, I hope it survived! I just want to reassure you all that I have now completely cut all communication with FW, no contact is definitely the only way forward. At my weakest moments I have come here and read through the letters and all of the comments and read LACGAL several times, it has helped me get back on track just knowing I’m not the only one going through this.
It is really interesting reading your comments about family history of cheating being a red flag, I totally agree, if only I had known this when I was 21 and met FW I could of saved myself alot of pain. FW’s Dad left his Mum for an AP who he married and had two daughters, he then left for another AP, I admit it did worry me at that point we had only just got married ourselves. FW could barely tolerate his Dad and made me believe he was disgusted by his behaviour yet he has done the exact same thing so yes it is something to watch out for.
I used to think I was unique and then I read this. So hurtful. My cheater was so weak in any attempt to come back. It was laughable. That made it much easier to be firm and stick to zero contact. But in the 10 days past D day he was still comparing me to his other ” friends” who he ” felt had more love to show him.” I can’t imagine the back peddling and insulting this poor Chump has to listen to. Please give me attention too and Im sort of but not at all sorry. Plus I want you to hear how happy I am now, but surprised you are not still crying for me. Please keep my on speed dial so I can feel important!!
I’ve leaned so much from CL and CN of what to expect and how very ordinary these emails and texts and letters are. Believe that they suck and DO NOT GIVE IN!! You were traded for pancakes and shiny new things. Stay strong 💪, you don’t need this in your life.
The ex and I were both UK lawyers at the time of our divorce. I started divorce proceedings quickly after discovering the affair. Instructed a solicitor to deal with the financials. The ex contacted me by email 2 months after the divorce proceedings started (he agreed to the divorce but denied the unreasonable behaviour grounds). He said ‘I assume you’ve applied for the decree nisi’. Through my pain, doing lockdown completely alone, I laughed. My thought: you’re a lawyer, not a very good one but still; and you can’t be bothered/are too lazy/are too much of a coward/whatever to pick up the phone that rarely left your horrible little hands and call the court to ask that simple question. I contacted my solicitor and instructed him to tell the ex that all (and I meant all) communication had to be through lawyers. That night, after the ex had had his customary few drinks I assume, I received a pathetically whining email saying ‘your lawyer says I can only contact you through him’. It was so obviously an attempt to lure me back into further direct communication, for his own manipulative ends. Again through my pain, and I was in a lot of pain, I laughed and ignored him. He got others to try to get me to communicate with him but I found it easy to resist. This year (4 years down the line) there have been a few strange communications e.g. suddenly getting added to his family WhatsApp group on our anniversary and then being deleted immediately. I ignore them. Even if I’m faking it until I make it, this sad specimen doesn’t deserve to have someone like me enriching his silly little existence. This is my superpower – I choose who gets to be in my life. Whenever we met pre-divorce, rarely, he tried to hug me, with this cringeworthy sad face on him. I would duck and say either ‘you’ve lost that right’ or ‘no thank you, I know where you’ve been’. Both gave me pleasure! No contact is a life saver. HIT, your update shows that you’ve got this! That’s your superpower.
He’s still desperate for your attention 4 years later! OMG, he’s pathetic.
Uh, the benevolence letter! I’m so happy screwing my new partner….even though I literally screwed you over & hurt you deeply for that to happen….I decree that you deserve the same screwing experience that I’m having for all your years of loyal service! Pip, pip, cheerio!
Yep, and of course they are acting like hormone crazed teens, imagine the oh shit moment not far down the line, when the whore/whoremonger is out in the open in the bright light and the dupers delight is gone.
Funny thing was, when it happened to me my biggest fear was that he would not marry the whore. (this was way before CL) Even at my lowest, I knew the best revenge would be him marrying her. I couldn’t have created a better revenge on him if I had possessed the power to do so.
I have become a joyous hardcore cynic. When I read these ludicrous non-apologetic apologies, my mind condenses them into a shriveled, burnt lump of unwanted marshmallow.
” In lieu of any sort of honest discussion I might have offered you before unilaterally choosing to severely injure and irrevocably alter the lives of you and our daughter, I would like to hand you this typed and electronically transmitted benediction over the family I destroyed. Hey, no hard feelings, right?”
I have stopped being flabbergasted by these examples of idiocy, but I will never stop being annoyed by them. If I were to write him a response, it would be this:
”As of the official date of the divorce, I no longer wish you well. Instead, I wish you an incurable flaccid penis and many years of extraordinary financial struggles. Looking forward to the day your Schmoopie tells you she’s fallen head over heels in lust with the local grocer and, oh by the way, she might have given you syphilis. Ta-ta and bugger off completely! Loathe and hisses…Me.”
My divorce was final in December after 3 years of an ugly battle. My ex also had a cheating father who ruined his marriage and family. My ex also claimed he would never do that to anyone after watching his own mother suffer. Then 20 years of marriage he just accidentally fell into his co-workers vagina for several months before her husband caught them and he then called to inform me. Two marriages and kids from both now destroyed. The two cheaters are now living together in a friends basement. I am at meh but at least I am no longer crying and passing out because I can’t hold down food. This blog has been a great inspiration to me as I navigate through this!