20/20 Signs They Were Cheating
Did you see signs of cheating before D-Day? Furtive cell phone shenanigans? Odd smells? Portents and omens?
To be a chump is to be unknowing. (And that’s as it should be — trusting your partner is natural.) Of course, cheaters are doing everything they can to conceal their nefarious double lives, and gaslighting you when confronted with something “off.”
If you see the signs now, don’t beat yourself up. No one comes equipped with a wingnut decoder ring.
Part of the point of this blog is to reveal the manipulations so others don’t fall into the same tiger pit.
It’s really beyond most people’s ken to imagine that predators exist, or that double lives are a thing.
But knowledge is power. So your Friday Challenge is to tell CN what were the signs? What was off then that makes sense now?
Warn the newbies.
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This is an updated post. Good to have all the intel in one place!
he started taking all calls in the other room, behind closed doors. he got a second phone. he suddenly started getting waxed (had never been even remotely interested in this prior). he was travelling “for work” more than he was at home. he smelt different (was repulsive to me). he started sleeping in the room downstairs. there are many more but they were such big clues that went straight over my head at the time.
This topic is among the most depressing triggers for me.
That is Not a criticism, but an admission that the times I feel at my worst, post divoce trauma, are when I face palm myself for all the red flags I just did not allow into my brain.
How could I be the same woman who put up with so much glaringly shitty behavior AND somehow love the DOCTOR??
I know, I know, I loved who he once was or seemed to be or who I hoped he was.
Anyhow, just checking in and now I’ll go read an archive on Chumps taking back our power and fixing our pickers.
For Cheater 1 I not only saw the red flags….it was like a Communist Victory Parade in retrospective, I just ignored them because I was so stupid and needy and just wanted to hang on to him. He was like a drug for me. He was a salesman and his biggest product was HIM. I began to realize that he was not only cheating on me overseas trips (mutual fiends told me) but here too and I figured that out from seeing his interactions with certain women at parties, etc. I still stayed, I think my self esteem was very low and I just thought he was the best I could do. Thankfully we had no children but I feel like he robbed so many years from me. Anyway, he had a planned escape and just took off one day without warning or discussion to another state with another woman whose family had a lot of money. As far as I know they’re still together, decades later, so she has a stronger stomach than even I did. But I’ve heard he’s had serious health problems over the years so I probably dodged a lot. Never underestimate the power of denial and just being so absorbed by someone. For me it really was like a drug. It took me years to get over him and I swear I can still call up his scent, which amazes me. Don’t beat up on yourself for being the kind of person who can love and trust so deeply, beat up on him for being the kind of person who doesn’t value that. I came to see how shallow he was and how manipulative but it was a very destructive lesson.
We all hold hands on this one. Love us blind Even in long term relationships. My first cheater got away with more. My second cheater didn’t take me as long. But first timers and first marriages are the hardest to let go of maybe. I see you are kind to yourself. That is the way to go.
That’s very true about the 2nd (and hopefully last) – I would never put up with anything remotely like that, and I know the signs now, of course. But the first time….it’s just unbelievable that someone lives like this. But I guess he was the kind of guy women actively chased and he never said no, LOLOL. I wish I’d never met him, but maybe there would have been another one even worse. I just had bad judgment at that time and as I say, very low self esteem and he was a big ole bag of catnip. Thank God we change even if they don’t!
Thank you 2xchump. I am…well….what would the word be….embarrassed? that I put up with this for so long, but if there’s anyone that needs to be forgiven, it’s me, LOL. I think we all need to preach the gospel of CL because so many younger spouses waste so much time trying to save marriages and relationships that are just never gonna work out. It’s usually much better to cut and run if you can – but you have to recognize the abuse first!
Reading all these posts really help me see I am not alone. The stories are similar. We tried, we didn’t give up. Even with 2 cheaters i was still trusting until there was no question in my mind. Divorce is horrific, costly and it takes a lot of courage against the wall of family, Switzerland friends and family, kids, step families. It is a river of sewage meeting fresh water. It is incomprehensible. It takes take for a caring loving person to point the canons in the right direction and not do self blame and self harm. It Just.takes time bail out of sinking ship. Whatever our story is, left quickly, left over years, left 1 -2- 3 x, left pregnant, elderly, left with special needs kids,left for slime balls or PHDs…whatever the story. We are all mighty. I raise my glass to us!
Sorry and glad you are here. Hugs!
“I know, I know, I loved who he once was or seemed to be or who I hoped he was.”
So true. It took me a long time to separate the person in my mind from who he really was.
He had 21 years with a spouse who loved him and was loyal to him, I didn’t.
Abusers take your strongest and best attributes–like your ability to trust and love and attach– and weaponize them against you. They have been practicing how to make their deception effective since they learned to talk. So, please, do forgive yourself, Doctor’s 1st Wife, for not initially seeing through him. Cyber-hugs!
Yeah, Dr’s 1st wife, I look at missing the red flags as testament that you are such an amazing and kind person that this kind of treachery never occurred to you. You didn’t see them because you were loving him—projecting onto him the exquisitely lovely and honorable values that YOU possess.
((Hugs)) As CL says, it’s emotional abuse — and it’s also insidious. And you are not wired that way.
The signs of a double-life (that become visible in hindsight).
Not wanting to be seen with you in public in your hometown, otherwise, all over me and affectionate when travelling. ( I thought he just didn’t like shopping etc like his dad).
Pretending not to see the kids and I in the car next to him or opposite him when in local traffic, even with my kids waving frantically, calling out ‘Dad’, asking me ‘why can’t he see us?! This happened more than once. I now know we may have unwittingly caught him coming back from his sex-worker daytime hook-up??
Suggesting and implying ‘I’m the crazy wife’ to work colleagues and friends.
Having a lot of hobbies even though he was busy running a business and always with us otherwise. Playing an instrument in a brass band, Archery, hunting, herpatology club(snakes lol), and self-defence (karate) where he had way too much interest in a 20 year old and her mother. Being obsessive about theses hobbies as a way to cover his extracurricular activities.
Not the first time, he was also friends with a lady and her young adult daughter (from church) when our first two kids were toddlers. Why was I so oblivious? I thought it was him being kind lol ( again, like his Dad use to do, travelling with work for the church and being Bishop). His dad has a lot of single women he would ‘check up on in his travels’ No one suspected a thing with him to this day. The only time anyone was ever suspected as far as I know, was my sister-in-law asking her Mum why her Dad’s photo was the screensaver of a single lady they visited after he passed away. ??
I think back and my husband would have some connection with ‘the Mum’, being ‘helpful’ as a way of getting to the daughter.
I was so flat out with the kids because he never helped me, not even fir a 10 min nap, I was too exhausted to see what he was up to.
It just didn’t occur to me, we were religious, he was in the Bishopric, I thought he was taking care of the single sisters. Hmm hmm. Yeah. In more ways than one.
Why did I not question why nearly all his friends were females before we got married?
He had a couple of decent make friends, that disarmed me. His high/school buddy was a total sleaze thigh, I remember thinking how are they friends?!
He would jump at the chance to disappear whenever I was sick and he knew I’d be occupied and not going anywhere. He would urgently have to go visit someone or something of interest.
He would emotionally disappear after being so attentive and telling me everything I wanted to hear. He has an answer for everything. The one time I told an older lady friend at church I was worried, she said don’t be ridiculous, he was not cheating and he never would.
I felt like I was crazy! No one ever said anything. Looking back, it felt like I was the only one who didn’t get the memo, while everyone tried to hide the memo or deny it even existed.
Once he escalated to sex-workers and higher $$$ escorts, he started losing weight drastically, going to the gym, keeping the car pristine, hiding any evidence he had a family.
So many of his clients, even when I was working with him every day if the week, were shocked to find out he was married! And had 3 kids! What?!
The list goes on,
The mood swings, excitement, over the top positivity, love bombing me, then withdrawing, hiding out, depressed, not wanting to talk at all, pretending to be asleep on multiple occasions, especially when driving on long trips so I couldn’t corner him, as the kids told me after D/ Day that Dad thought I was on to him. I wasn’t, I had a couple of concerns, but omg I had no idea essentially.
He controlled money that he hid from me. He let me have access to other money just for me, I didn’t have to answer to him for, to put me off the scent. Again it was confusing, sometimes being controlling, other times generous.
He would often dangle the carrot, talking about all our grand plans fir the future, paying the mortgage of early, travel plans overseas, etc etc, it was all ways he thought he could keep me there, working toward ‘our future’. It was always ‘in the future’.
I planned and hosted a huge 40th party for him, and I still didn’t get it when he wouldn’t even stand next to me in front of all his colleagues and clients, church friends, my family, he made sure his family couldn’t attend. I felt so awkward and embarrassed as I was telling him to come over to the cake and blow the candles out, he just stood there looking at me and wouldn’t move. He never said thank you to me or acknowledged me when I gave a speech saying he wash my best friend and wishing him well.
When he won the business awards, he did the same, left me walking up to the stage by myself, while he raced ahead, grabbed the award and stood at the opposite end of the stage with his female practice manager. One attendee sitting with us was again shocked to find out I was the wife.
This happened two years in a row, the next time he stood at the opposite end of the stage again with all our staff in between, as far away as possible. I worked in the business with him, worked 10 hour days too, gave up my degree twice as he asked me to help him.
It’s like one of those movies you would watch on t.v. He was seeing prostitutes right under my nose, ducking out from work to go see the ‘chiropractor’, ‘dentist’, ‘doctor’, ‘ physic’, podiatrist etc I remember thinking, gee, he really looks after his health. They were the cover. He would actually go, bury not just to them.
Anyway, we had another Veterinarian start working with us, he was just as bad. We all knew it. Cheating, lying, predatory, but highly intelligent, charming as all, the clients loved him, YET, he was always gaslighting his fiancé who was beautiful, smart, talented, and who would question him, even in front of us at times, and we explain his way out of it, with her either feeling crazy, or he’d love bomb her so it just seemed ridiculous.
My husband and him, their ability to make lies seem like truth was just limitless. They had ways of making us feel like we are stepping into their territory at times, and we weren’t welcome, then confuse us by making a point of showing the opposite when it suited them, acting all chummy like we couldn’t be any closer. Just crazy making!
Not to mention the times he shit me down, made the other woman look mental, just stared into space when confronted. The level of control and lack of emotion, but like a psychopath but close! Probably more of a sociopath/narcissist. I don’t think he a slept a good nights sleep in 17 years of being married, any wonder, with that many lies.
Sorry this is so long, but it barely touches the surface of the lengths he went to, to cheat and sleep with hundreds of women, and yet I still was blindsided!
I still after 23 years, still find it incomprehensible as did plenty of people that know him. So many of us scratching our heads.
Too many things that are obvious in hindsight, his distractedness, preoccupation and motivation, i and others thought he was just a high achiever, go getter etc. I had no idea he was a go-getter for a pussy smorgasbord.
He even abandoned me and our 6 mth old first child to ‘go ahead’ of me to our new place when he got a new job in another city, as his work required he get there early. I bought it! Now I look back and see, another opportunity for freedom to chase women.
He never wanted to leave me, or discouraged me from having our 3rd baby for example, he would encourage me and show me love in word, but not in deed. He counted on the fact I didn’t feel I deserved any better, especially as he confused me with smooth talk and romantic gestures and tokens. No depth to shy of it!
The one thing I keep thinking when reading these literally epic stories of multi-leveled betrayals is that, you know, most of these very busy cheaters are probably average looking and, like most provincial types, aging in a rather awkward provincial way. Which is cute in someone with integrity but not so much in those who lack it. So if we’re not talking about, say, Brad Pitt or Denzel Washington in their primes, what kind of garbage are they actually scoring with? A cheater putting up a nice guy act can probably find a lovely, wholesome spouse. But who’s going to furtively ho-bang some average Joe other than melted Barbies and musty pill junkies?
My cheater was able to fool me AND all my friends, appearing very loving and committed.
But, he seemed to have no friends of his own, just colleagues. That would be a bad sign even if he had not been a cheater, but I ignored it. He also would never introduce me to his colleagues, saying that he already worked ten hour days with them (that part was true, he worked from 10am til at least 9pm) But, he also did not introduce me even when we ran into one once when on a walk. And at restaurants he would first always look around before going in, to make sure there were no co-workers. I did not put two and two together even though past partners had been proud to introduce me to their friends. I thought he was just very private and a bit burned out on the office social scene. Also, he generally behaved as if he were deeply in love, yet never said he loved me. And, when he went on a trip early in our relationship he did not call or text or email at all. I had a cold sick anxious feeling about it, but told myself that we had not made an agreement yet about expectations regarding communication on trips. He returned, made stupid excuses about supposedly forgetting his phone charger, the pace of work, the different time zones–but actually he was with her and their colleagues and didn’t want anyone to know I existed. I told him I needed him to call or text every other day next time, he refused saying his conferences required him to work from eyes open til sleep, and he was just too tired to call after that. Actually he was just afraid she would see him texting me.
Finally, my gut feeling was always just a little uneasy, like I was always on audition, even when we had lived together for months. My gut knew I was being forced to pick-me dance, even if my head did not.
I notice that though he is now married to her, she is not shown on his facebook page and his relationship status is blank. So I think he is running around on her also now.
Reactive attachment disorder for $100, Alex. And Madonna/whore complex for $20.
Why oh why don’t sick f*cks wear signs on their foreheads? The world would be a better place.
They don’t stop being themselves just because they changed the furniture. He’s still the same dog he ever was. I think at some point we all find out but some people are shallow enough to live like this forever and others never find their self respect. This is the guy he’ll always be, thank God you don’t have to deal with it anymore. It’s crazy making.
Oh, please don’t go checking his facebook page ever again! No contact, no contact, no contact, not even “just peeking in hopes of evidence of karma.”
fwiw, I stayed in a bad marriage for 7 years after I was done; after I had figured out that his “I love you” was better translated, “I love sex.”
After a while I was able to return “I loved you” each time. Don’t think he ever noticed, but it helped me survive. I loved him, he loved sex. All the angles of his dodecahedron were labeled sex; I finally got that I wasn’t special, and I’m not “better than.” Exercise in humility; pride has always been the worst part of my nature. Well, or trust?
I don’t recommend staying in a cadaverous marriage, but I thought then and still think that it was the best path of FOR ME of a host of sad options. By the time I felt free to leave the marriage (could not stay one more minute) I had lost my natural smile. It was great when, years later, one day I realized my mouth muscles were protesting because I had been smiling unaware for some time.
Joy returns, but only after a sustained period of no contact, no contact, no contact! And I can think now ruefully of the good times with the late, great Mr. Happy.
Rantings, WOW. My STBXH and yours did so much of the same stuff. The other day I was looking at a list that compare a sociopath to a psychopath. My STBX checked basically all the boxes for the psychopath and only one in the sociopath column. Really creepy. Can’t believe how many things we experienced the same. Only our husbands had different careers and a different LONG list of hobbies.
Is anyone familiar with the series Dexter? I keep thinking of this as I hear these stories…
Omg yes! Dexter. It was scary to see the similarities in his lack of emotion for example. What about Don Draper in Madmen. Even my young adult kids call their Dad Don Draper and laugh. My STBX still won’t watch it.
Thankyou Rantings. I have such a hard time putting so much confusion and insanity into words that it helps a LOT when someone else can go into detail. Its almost impossible to make a proper narrative out of the deviousness. So many contortions and layers of manipulation. Even 8 years out my brain seems to short circuit when i try to unravel The Skein.
I hear you! The layers of abuse.
For a long time one of my fears at leaving was being able to see it for what it is. I couldn’t face the fact I that loved someone so much who could mistreat me so! Trying to explain and describe it all is mind boggling. Wishing you well and all the best!
Short circuit! That’s exactly how it feels. Or an impossible, unsolvable fever nightmare. Composing a coherent narrative feels urgent at times, yet it’s a Sisyphean task. I think that’s why it’s such a relief to come here.
You went through the most! It makes me sick to my stomach. These a**holes all use the same textbook and the sad part is that they think nothing of us at all. It blows my mind how cheaters switch on and off with lies. But I’m glad we’re all here on the other side instead of fighting to make it work with a narcissist who will never see our worth or reciprocate our love.
My signs were the same. Never wanting to be seen with me in public, hiding the phone away and not letting me near it, going out with his phone off and coming back late saying he was at the ‘casino’ or with friends, mood swings, picking fights over nothing, verbal abuse, the list is endless over the decade we were together. And now one year post divorce he still behaves as if he was a genuinely good person who made some mistakes along the way like creating a whole human being with his mistress during our marriage.
It warms my heart that all of us can say we got out! We deserve nothing but happiness and cheater-free futures! My heart bleeds for those still stuck in those abusive relationships. I wish we could rescue all of them.
Unfortunately we all can relate to some, if not many, things that you went through. I’m so glad you’re no longer dealing with him.
Dear Rantings,
I hear you loud and clear on the “love in word, and not in deed.” When you’re adulting, dealing with kids and living life, it’s easy to be on autopilot, and most rational decisions are obvious. So, it’s often hard to tell that you’re being devalued unless there’s a major life decision, or clear evidence of boundary violations.
My STBX was also decent with words, but not deeds. And I don’t think she was lying when she said she loved me. She just had a wildly different definition of love, as an amorphous *feeling* that one might hold for multiple people. My definition of love begins with respect, mutual support, and putting your partner first – something that must be shown in deeds more than just words. As CL rightly says, we need to look to what they DO, not just what they SAY. All best to you, Rantings, and I’m glad that we’re free of our fuckwits!
Thank you LezChump for your kindness.
Who knew there are different definitions of love when it comes to marriage and commitment. I have been schooled!
Wishing you lots of happiness and joy in your ‘fuckwit’ free journey.
So much yes to “love begins with respect, mutual support and putting your partner first”
A lot of them do not want to split assets with their spouse, and a big part of the thrill is having a spouse at home to fool.
They string everyone along and get a charge out of it. Pathetic excuses for human beings.
Zero character, flim flam men, they are hard core cons.
My first husband got into another “relationship” immediately after I threw him out. At one point, I asked him if he wanted to pursue other women, why get into a relationship at all? He said it wasn’t any fun if he wasn’t cheating on someone. WOW!
Absolutely ! Conning those who trust and believe is not so tough to do! The deception and betrayal is profound. Mine manipulated me to sign off on the joint checking account , he was on his phone constantly or the bathroom even when we traveled. It was on the second cheat , warning signs and him grabbing my neck during sex that I opted for divorce after a 20 yr marriage . We went through many trials and I stood by his want to change employment .He makes big money while I survive on $840 a month SSD. Good attorneys cost. I’m still better off away from a deceptive liar!
Sorry for the typos. Auto correct! I hope you can decipher it.
He smelled different. Hmmmm
I’ll just come out and say it. One night, once the alarm in my gut had been ringing nonstop, we were in bed. I remember giving him a BJ and thinking “Am I crazy or does his dick smell/taste like pussy?” I just decided I was crazy.
I wasn’t crazy.
Sorry to be so blunt, but I have a feeling I’m not the only one here who’s experienced this.
I remember kissing him and his mouth tasting like well…pussy. I pulled back and tried to push the thought out of my mind. “There’s no way!” I thought….sigh.
You are not crazy. On our one day of sex per month, he was often limp, so I tried a BJ and I remember thinking “So how hard do I really need to work for THIS?!?” And I knew. But I should have known when sex dwindled to once per month.
She tasted like a rubber, so yeah.
I just read this comment and you are 100% right. I know my Wife. I know her pheromones, her taste, her smell…she never used to come home after a longer day at work and shower right away. Then she started doing that. The last time I went down on her (which I loved doing because it pleased her and got me very hard, sorry TMI) even after her afterwork shower, she tasted different. Like rubber. Daaaamn.
Nope. Remember kissing him hello and thinking the same thing. But quickly pushing it away, because who would do that?!
And his family was visiting from out of town and staying with us.
Such a chump!
Am I crazy or does his dick smell/taste like pussy?” I just decided I was crazy.
That’s disgusting. He didn’t even wash when he got home?? Totally sick. I’m sorry you had to go through that. I just hope you didn’t catch anything
And just think what delight he got out of you giving him a BJ knowing and thinking about his rendez-vous with the OW, right? Sick, twisted fuckwit…???? So pisses ya off just thinking about their narc thrills.
The graphic nasty behavior is on the part of the cheater. My cheater wife played the high and mighty “you are disgusting” card post-D-day if I asked her how often our marital sex occurred soon after her afternoon fuck sessions with her equally self-absorbed narcissist friend. ‘How dare you’, was often a response, I was the disgusting troll besmirching her true heavenly love.
I was physically disgusted about bathing my dick, face, and tongue in this idiot’s fluids. Not an unreasonable question. There is an ick factor along with wondering if that kind of secondary intimate contact might make me as much as stupid as he is. This is not to mention the obvious STD fears.
Also, pre-D-day, I kept getting these weird, minor general irritations and when we fucked, being inside my ex actually felt bad.
More subject matter for chumps to trust their instincts: both emotional AND biological. I guess sometimes things literally smell wrong.
OK, that’s my entry for a potential “Chump Lady After Dark” discussion board.
Forrest Chump
After talking to my doctor/ she knew all the facts and insisted on the full panel STD’s
She said that often irritation or “ infection “
( without any reasonable cause) is due to change in bacterial floor… u know, if it’s just two of you, your body adjusts to each other but if there is more people… well, you know
Disgusting to think about it. Your w had a friend… my h was fucking random hookers right and left ????
Let me add one more incident to the ick factor: I got a series of yeast infections, which I had never had before and haven’t had after I stopped sleeping with Cheater #1. More proof that C#1 was having unprotected sex.
During the discard, when confronted and I had the full STD panel (while pregnant, no less), his smug reply was “They’re clean people.”
Yeah, right, buddy. Does that include the ex-con drug addict? How about the bar fly pot head? Or the band singer that fancied herself the next Janis Joplin (heroin and all)?
Eww. I count myself lucky that I didn’t have any long term STDs.
I got the same “they’re clean” in reference to cheap Craig’s List prostitutes. Umm, how would he know?
Easy, Geode! The prossies attest to being “clean.” And they are: clean out of truth.
You are not alone! Same exact thing. I even told him I’m not doing this again, and never did.
He’d only been out to dinner with Bill???? I wasn’t aware Bill had a pu$$y.
On that same note around that time he told me how good I smelled, made me wonder what kind of women he’d been with?! I should have smelled familiar, not comment worthy if i was the only one, except that he’s a cheater.
I stopped using my favorite bath soap, because when I washed my genitals the suds smelled offensive and I thought the manufacturer had changed the formula for the soap. Shortly thereafter, positive STD found on my annual pap smear. I miss the soap more than I miss the ex.
😂
Well, at least he complimented you????
Mine- on the other side was complaining about my smell ( nothing wrong with it for the most of the time but he made me so self conscious- I cringe every time I think about it) and from time to time I was getting some irritation change if the way I smelled. My gynecologist and I were scratching our heads and couldn’t figure out what was causing it.
I know now- 10000 cheap hookers in and out
Let me just say- I’m healthy as they go and no issues whatsoever for the past 3 years.
Omg yes! Dexter. It was scary to see the similarities in his lack of emotion for example. What about Don Draper in Madmen. Even my young adult kids call their Dad Don Draper and laugh. My STBX still won’t watch it.
sooo many over the course of his 7 year affair with my close friend. a series of constant yeast infections (totally abnormal for me). another time I went to kiss him when he returned home from somewhere and his face smelled of skank. We had just lost our son in a car accident a few months prior, so mabe I was just ditracted or not in my right mind, but i brushed it off when hesaid he had a “fish sandwich” on his way home. Don’t judge lol. i was barely surviving during that time. Another time (same “friend”). she hugged us both goodbye and i noticed when she hugged him that he touched her waist in a very familiar/comfortable way. it caught my attention. That was the day after our son’s funeral. I also found an earring in our bed that belonged to her. I know it was hers because I bought them for her birthday. It wasn’t until a year after our son passed that I confronted them. #soembarrassed
So sorry for your loss
If he could do that in the midst of the loss of your son, what’s to stop him from committing murder? That is a terrifying degree of callousness. I hope you have an alarm system set up. And I’m terribly sorry for your loss.
God I hate your ex and never met him.
((((Amy))))
I am so sorry for the sad loss of your son and for all you have suffered.
I can’t begin to imagine the pain of your loss, Amy, and I’m sorry that you feel embarrassed about anything. You have a right to feel whatever you feel, but your ex is the one who should feel humiliated and ashamed.
Amy, I hope they both meet with a terrible Karmic demise. How awful for you.
Amy, my heart breaks for you. You are one mighty woman for surviving all that. My very deepest sympathies.
Amy, I am so sorry for the loss of your son and what your ex and your ‘friend’ did to you at the worse time in your life. I can’t think of a betrayal worse than that. I wish I could ‘punch’ both of them but I will pray for you and your son.
Your x and xfriend are just the lowest of the low. Cheating during the loss of your son. I don’t think anyone could fault you for not seeing the signs, you were likely just surviving. Sometimes we just aren’t ready to process it all.
“That was the day after our son’s funeral.”
I empathize and sympathize and relate.
Today X is persona non gratis after married 39 years. Divorced almost 1.
With me it was UTIs. But he had plausible deniability becsuse I get UTIs very easily. After I stopped having sex with him I haven’t had a UTI since.
You have nothing to be ashamed of and nobody here is going to judge you for trusting somebody who was supposed to have your back. I’m so sorry about the loss of your son. xxoo
Omg, Amy, what horrific monsters you had around you at that painful time! I’m so sorry he was just twisting that knife in your heart. And your “friend”. Yeesh! Psychopaths suck. I’m glad you’re free of them both
Thank you xoxox
Amy, I second what OHFFS wrote.
((Hugs))
My ex kissed differently. We used to be really in sync when kissing and we suddenly were bumping noses and just not kissing right.
My ex tasted different when we kissed. Yuck as I proceed to throw up.
I got the different kissing too, now that you mention it. I remember that he kissed me passionately one night, and my body recoiled.
The only thing that registered with me was that he seemed like a…gross uncle.
And seemingly overnight he’d acquired an old man’s smell. I washed his robe the next morning in a vain attempt to get rid of the smell. “Out, damned spot!”
I chalked it up to his age, although he was only 59. I don’t know. I think my body knew what my mind didn’t. Something was off.
Yeah, what is it with that old man scalp odor? Booze? Stress chemicals? Dysbiosis from eating a shitty diet of takeout? Affairs are apparently aging in any case.
I remember in the last few months when he was throwing me a mercy bounce that I just was not enjoying it anymore. Thing is he had been cheating for at least two years with the same woman, and up to that point still carrying on quite an active sex life with me. So I know at that point I started avoiding him more.
So I ponder why the change, did he just quit trying, did I pick up on something? I remember at the end his hugs were limp.
Wow, I thought I was the only one!! I thought I was INSANE to be thinking that. Nope! He was screening 100s of hookers bareback and didn’t even bother showering before coming home to me. GAG.
As a wildlife biologist I can say that you absolutely detected foreign pheromones’ on your mate. Just because our sense of smell and taste aren’t as developed as the next mammal on the tree of life doesn’t mean that our brains can’t still detect it and react accordingly.
LOL. Pheromones are one thing and I’m sure can trigger subconscious wariness. But I think the pungent cheese smell emanating from FW’s nethers a few times was just foreign bacteria and spores.
Absolutely nauseating. Female binge drinkers are apparently prone to chronic yeast and bacterial infections as well as hormone imbalances, high-risk behavior and STDs.
FW’s AP wasn’t exactly the picture of health in any case. Yellow skin, cystic acne, apple-shaped body and eye bags.
The bar tabs and booze bills from that affair were epic. I got every STD test known to man but there are some that don’t manifest immediately, so I’m having to brace for potential future fallout.
This is a reply to everyone who has commented so far. First, thanks for helping me with my dieting efforts because while I can relate and agree, I am ready to barf my effing head off right now. Ewwwwww!!!!
For me, I’d been having miscarriages galore. Then suddenly had an ectopic (tubal) pregnancy. No risk factors for that one, except when the obgyn said I had SIGNIFICANT TUBAL SCARRING.
Guess what? The cheating fuckwit and his whoremaster fuck buddy gave me chlamydia while I was trying to get pregnant and having miscarriages galore. And of course not using protection. What a nice baby gift, right? I wanted to thank them with my axe. To their heads.
Yes, some of the details require a dose of antiemetics.
I think what happened to you should be a criminal offense. What incredible evil and I’m so sorry you had to endure that.
I totally agree, you most definitely have a legal case against him….get a lawyer, he could have passed on God knows what more deadly….. He didn’t give shit about your safety…. What else is worth keeping him for???
Oh my gosh….no words, “Idiotnomore,” you were abused beyond belief.
You have been through hell, and yes, how dare they!!!! How the hell we ever get out of this with sanity is a miracle in itself. Please tell me he is a drug user…something. To think that someone could do this to another person is beyond me.
Wow, IdiotNoMore, that really, really, really sucks. You have my sympathy, and thank god that cheating fuckwit and his whoremaster fuck buddy (love that, btw) is G O N E !!!
Oh my gosh! Yes to all of this – what is much better in my case at least – is that I didn’t smell it but my dog did! (he really was MY dog after this). He’s a pitbull. The very first time my ex-husband cheated (as in physically – I had been teaching from 7:30 am until 11pm (this was his day to hang out with his new amor) and when my ex walked through the front door our (MY) dog of 10 years attacked him – nearly ripped his hand off. This was totally unexplained behavior and he NEVER hurt or even acted aggressively. I got anothe dog (a Cane Corso) and neither would let him in the house.
Too bad it was only his hand he nearly ripped off!
Not chump related but Cane Corso is a beautiful breed. I watch a guy on YouTube who has a channel about his cane called Bruce Wayne. Such a beautiful dog. I’m a Rottweiler guy personally but would seriously consider a cane.
That happen to me..I thought I was crazy I couldn’t stop thinking about that night. Two months later I find out he was screwing our neighbor and yes he had just left her house that night.
Not crazy at all. My ex wife felt different down there. She never once stopped sleeping with me during her cheating and I slept with her on days which she had been with others and it just felt different. She also smelt different. Graphic yes but I’m sure many here have similar experience. It makes me feel sick to think about it.
Oh my lord…. Hell now… Is there any decency anymore??
Besides the fact he was never home, he became mean when had a new AP. He would find every little thing offensive and rage at me and the kids, like he was trying to prove how bad his home life was so he could justify his cheating.
I look back over our 20 years together and although I only knew of three APs, there must have been many more, seems like he had weird emotional swings once or twice a year, probably when he found a new “luv”.
Yes to the picking fights for no reason. At the time, I thought it was maybe just a power play (“this fight is about absolutely nothing, but I’m going to push it to DEFCON 1 just to make you back down, thus proving who is the dominant person in this marriage”). Now I realize that it was really about manufacturing conflict in a marriage that had virtually none, so that XW would have something to point to (perhaps just to herself) when she left.
It’s kind of ironic that my interpretation of these fights (“my wife is trying to grind me into submission”) was actually overly generous towards her.
WOW i feel this so much
…i so clearly remember thinking
“are a bunch of kid shoes & kid socks taken off at/near the entry, in an effect dirt-tracking REDUCTION move, really worth SCREAMING at all of us about?”
but then making all the same old excuses for her in my mind
the ones would make for an actual person who just lost their shit over something totally minor
…”don’t worry kids, Mom’s just had a long day, yes c’mon, let’s straighten up our shoes”
turns out mom was just crabby to be home
after one of her many delightful, shoe-free afternoons spent in hotels
“Now I realize that it was really about manufacturing conflict in a marriage that had virtually none, so that XW would have something to point to (perhaps just to herself) when she left.”
Oh how I relate to this. It was the first thing I noticed was wrong. The smallest things seemed to get spun into something serious and in hindsight I think it was done to justify his actions.
Yes, they have to ‘demonize’ the spouse to square it to themselves.
Devaluation. And after “overvaluation” or love bombing, that devaluation is devastating to the chump and triggers efforts to get back to the overvaluation stage. What a kibble surge that is for the cheater.
yes. this. still.
Me too on this. I was always SO hopeful that our marriage would grow close and loving and it seemed there were calmer, more pleasant times then with no change or warning in our home life, he randomly got meaner than hell and very critical. It was likely an excuse to blame his cheating on some awful home life.
Another clue was that he was military but always insisted that we live pretty far from where he worked…only once did we ever live on base and he seemed to try to keep work and home very separate. I think now that nearly all his side-pieces were work related…
which brings me to the point that he was VERY reluctant to bring me to work social functions. It was not unusual for him to go into some degree of rage on the way to work functions…one in particular was so traumatizing that by the time we arrived, the event could have been populated with circus animals and I wouldnt have noticed – which I think was his goal.
MrWonderful also did not want to live on base where people would know us. Gee, I wonder why. In early years he took me to all the officers’ balls to show off to his command that he was a solid family man. The last 6 years, he would lie and say the command wasn’t holding a holiday party and would “forget” that there was a hail and farewell scheduled so I couldn’t get a sitter and go and he would “have to” go without me.
At his last promotion ceremony in 2009, he wouldn’t pose for even one photo with me. There were all kinds of pics of him with his boss and everyone. I almost got a photo with him but he called his sister over to stand between us.
I took 2 years of swim lessons and became scuba certified because he always complained that I didn’t share his scuba hobby. After my certification, he booked a trip for himself to go with a friend to Cozumel to scuba dive. He paid to fly from Hawaii to Cozumel to scuba dive and left me – newly minted scuba diver – behind. He complained I didn’t share his interests and then when I made a Herculean effort to join him, I was rebuffed. A$$hat.
I often wondered if it mattered to his security clearance that he lied and said he had no enduring friendships with foreign nationals though he had been in an affair with a Portuguese ho (she was also married) for over 10 years. I suppose the military really doesn’t care unless fraternization is involved. I wonder if he will want the evidence I have of it going on public record at trial since his post-retirement civilian job depends on his clearance. No wonder he didn’t want to accept the position which would have required him to do a polygraph exam.
Mr. WEx
Your story just jogged my memory…That whenever I ‘complied’ to a request of his – zilch – no validation, no appreciation, no acknowledgement etc.
I learned to ignore and move on. The little bit of myself that remained after 30 years was in part because of me seeing this and blowing it off and doing what I wanted to do for me.
None of it ever mattered because I NEVER could please him. Pure crazy making behavior.
My theory is that cheaters resent chumps doing nice things because they feel like we’re rubbing their faces in their misdeeds. It also undermines the narrative that we’re bad and they/APs are special. We’ve already given so much and they’re already so far in debt. They’re so self-centered and weird that stead of feeling grateful and loved, wanting to return the favor and have a mutual, affectionate relationship, they feel suspicious and challenged. As usual, it’s all about them.
Bread and roses, NAILED IT. My friend said to me ” i dont know why, but when you do something for him, he resents it”… i could never understand it except as disordered behaviour. But what you say rings perfectly true. In the end he hated everything that was good about me.
Bread and Roses
Yes. So convuluted.
Very interesting. My cheater did not want me doing nice things for him. It made him very uncomfortable. I always thought that was because he was a people pleaser and always wanted to be the one to do nice things for others (and he liked to get the credit).
The reciprocity was unbalanced in the opposite way and not for my lack of trying.
Unicornomore, he stopped inviting me to office functions shortly after he hired the HoWorker. He couldn’t stop taking about her. Dropped her name constantly. Told me how I much would like her. I don’t. Talked about her writing erotica, which amused me since she was a bible carrying Christian. That hypocritical whore came to my house for his birthday party talking about how she brought his favorite cake, and his favorite olives. I’d invited his entire office. I told her I already made his favorite cake and showed her the jar of his favorite olives in the fridge. She didn’t even look slightly shamed.
He had already insisted I not work on the base where he worked as a GS14. He claimed my salary would just make us pay more taxes. Now I know he didn’t want me around to see all those late nights were just fucking that Howorker. He wanted his coworkers to forget he was married to me.
He moved out of our bedroom. Claimed he couldn’t sleep in our bed. He slept in the bed if I was gone.
He was so mean to me. Deliberately cruel, gaslighting me. He could not be pleased. He started fights so he could leave. He hated me. He hates me even more since I left him. He has contested this divorce for 23 months. He thinks our marital assets are all his. I can’t wait for the final judgement. The Judge will force him to comply with the Law.
Damn, I had to look twice – thought I’d missed a Thursday. It is Thursday right? I guess the biggest clue for me was that he stopped coming home sometime in January 2010 for about six weeks. I thought I’d misplaced the cat but nope it was the Twat!
When they keep bringing up a new “friend” in nearly every conversation. Thats the beginning of the “it just happened” excuse.
Also, accusing you of being a cheater.
So true. I noticed he talked about a new coworker a little TOO much! And then he told me about the pain she has in her labia and all the treatments she’s tried to make the pain go away. I don’t know…to me, that did not seem like appropriate work talk between a 29 year old and a 50 year old. But, it was enough for him to take “pity” on her and follow her subsequent procedures to eliminate the pain – and enough for him to want to try it out once the procedure was a success. How did this girl NOT know what she was doing? Now he’s paying for her to go to medical school so she can help other women that talk to their male coworkers about their vagina. And, he’s wed her and bought her a brand new half-million dollar condo to live in. Guess I should have talked about my vagina more.
Meanwhile, I started having nightmares that he told me he was leaving with me. Repeated nightmares. Every time I told him about them he’d say, “I’d never leave you!” I’ve now found out that’s one of the “things they say”…”I’d never leave you.” “I’d never do that to you.” Chumpy me bought it, though.
” I’ve now found out that’s one of the “things they say”…”I’d never leave you.” “I’d never do that to you.” Chumpy me bought it, though.”
They do say it.
My guess is once they start saying it, they are already planning it.
Lots of people say “I’d never leave you and they mean it”
A lot of the things cheaters do and say are also done by people who are committed, honest and good (like getting moody, or getting fit, buying new clothes or talking casually about someone at work once in a while).
We shouldn’t blame ourselves for looking back and not seeing the signs… they’re not always signs of cheating.
Secretive things like hiding the phone and a some others are very fishy though.
But this can be crazy making. You don’t enter into a relationship thinking you need to be a super detective. Because in a normal healthy relationship you don’t need to be. The normal healthy assumption is that your partner is not cheating.
All so true Zip.
I mean, I am sure I said some of the same things to the ex, and I meant it.
Having said that, it is also possible that back when he said it, he may have meant it. It is possible that he was one of the cheaters that started out just screwing around thinking I would never find out, he would never get leave etc.
But, of course a cheating heart is not a trustworthy heart; so no matter how it starts out, it almost always ends in heartbreak for the betrayed.
Yeah, who knows what goes on in their head and who cares! I remember mine saying in the beginning that he would never do anything to damage our relationship or something like that. He said he knew how lucky he was and he wasn’t going to screw this up.
I thought it was the oddest statement, and I asked him what he meant -and he just said again he knew how lucky he was and he never betray my trust.
Knowing what happened, I take that as him knowing that he had a cheater side to him… He had good intentions, until he didn’t.
Cheaters just don’t seem to be very solid people -regardless of how or why it starts.
Yes, at the beginning i think he did love me… but there was some strange comments. I’m reminded by these posts… he said that ” you made an honest man out of me” like some bachanded funny Irsish Ol Country saying. Now i know that he had never been faithful to any of the women he was with. SO FREAKING GLAD TO BE OUT OF ALL THAT
“Cheaters just don’t seem to be very solid people -regardless of how or why it starts.”
That is indeed the crux of the situation.
yes……this one for sure ^^^
That’s Jackass. Telling me all about the MOW except when she initiated the contact and what that contact was. Otherwise, I heard all about her.
I never thought about this one, but I got a new job about a year before I found out about the affair. My new boss was a great mentor and Ex kept making “joking” comments about me and my boss – which could not have been further from the truth. I was a bit flattered, assuming he was mildly jealous, but of course he was just projecting — because he was already screwing his protege.
True. When the affair is about to start they will insert the potential AP into every conversation. When the affair is in full swing the AP is rarely mentioned. Also true is that they get mean and have absolutely no patience. Find fault with everything and resent your existence. Right then and there though the chump should start making arrangements to see a lawyer. Affair or no affair no one should tolerate that treatment.
“Also true is that they get mean and have absolutely no patience. Find fault with everything and resent your existence.”
^^^
Add to the confusion: they are walking on eggshells around YOU and you are overly sensitive and difficult.
I felt waves of resentment from my ex prior to him walking out on me. He was really impatient with me too and often told me to shut up. I couldn’t understand what I had done wrong. Everything seemed fine then the next thing I know, my heart and life as I knew it was shattered into a million pieces. That was nearly 8 months ago and I still can’t make sense of what happened. I am so traumatised. I have a great counsellor though who is helping me navigate the fallout. I will get there eventually.
H & C:
Oh that is such a painful place to be. My Dday was a few years ago, 5 months before Christmas…I realized recently I have no memories of that Christmas. Not one. When the stress shatters us we put the pieces of ourselves back together, but there are gaps. That Christmas is one that never came back.
I don’t think Chumps can ever make sense of what happened, because it is not logical, not moral…it makes no sense to people with an ethical worldview. At some point you stop trying to understand the why. I’m not completely there yet, but at 8 months out you are doing well if you get dressed most days, can drive safely and aren’t lying in a closet drinking gin. Give yourself some grace for how you are doing…your world exploded. You will get there eventually. 🙂
Ex brought her name up a lot and eventually I asked if this was some sort of desensitization therapy. He agreed. That was when he’d agreed to not contact her unless I was told and not see her unless it was at our house with me present. (She was a girl with no close friends living alone and being her White Knight, so he thought, he was concerned for her safety.) I was so naive and trusting for quite some time!
Oh, forgot to add, he was actually calling her and Facebooking all that time, of course, despite promising not to and talking about grieving his ‘best friend’. I was FB friends with both of them at the time, and there was one odd ‘coincidence’ between a post she put up one day about giving compliments, and a comment he made about compliments he’d got that day (he was out of the house on a course) made me wonder. He later admitted he’d called her on that day. Coincidence? I think not.
The being mean and nasty just floored me. It’s easy now to look back and see all the years of abuse and pathological lying from her but at the time last year I never expected her to be so angry at me. It was borderline hatred I felt. How she looked at me, how so neglected me, how she just lost interest in me and became so cold and critical. I told my doctor it was like she became possessed by a demon. In reality after speaking to professionals, her mask simply fell and I seen her for who she really is.
Same happened to me. Brutal.
CNL. Boom. You nailed it. Their eyes go black and you stare down into the elevator shaft of their soul.
Scary but effective face slap.
Closest I’ve Ever been in contact with E. V. I. L.
There was one Saturday night in which I will never forget the look on her face towards me. It was hatred and a dark emptiness and the smug look she gave as she belittled me to our 9 year old little girl. I know now it’s called duper delight. End of the day the joke is on her as I divorced her and walked away. Rejecting them is a powerful weapon.
Yes. I love that leaving them is a SuperPower!
So many signs – chumpy, trusting me – she brought him soup to our house after he almost died of sepsis (he later told me “You saved my life”. A-hole.) I kept forgetting her name – she was a subcontractor of his. I just forgot it again – what a happy moment! There is hope, chump-friends!
I’m 4 years out. But those early days of misery? Every one I slogged through AWAY from Fw was a step toward this Tuesday “Moment of Meh”! You saved MY life, CL & CN!
He had all these female “friends” when we met. Only it gave me an off feeling in my stomach. His ex-fiancée had left for no reason whatsoever. And when we were still dating, he would throw out these little put downs to see how I would react. For example, we were out shooting pool and the bartender hit on me. I told FW about it and he said I MUST have been mistaken (because obviously, no one in the world would hit on me). That should have been the last straw. I should have run.
I wouldn’t trade having my son for the world and it’s possible I will eventually walk away ahead financially than where I would have been alone. But being gutted by this monster of a human being and suffering his controlling nature and cheating has been horrible. It’s hard not to focus on the time I have lost being stuck with him rather than looking forward to future days when I will be FW-free. I wish I could go back and tell myself to trust my gut.
>>And when we were still dating, he would throw out these little put downs to see how I would react.
Only in hindsight could I see he was wrong in this, and it had no basis in reality. Of course I grew up with it (family scapegoat), and so didn’t see how wrong it was. Disgusting. No wonder he did all he could to separate me from friends who could have given me a sense of perspective, He was my first boyfriend, so I had no perspective. Jackal.
The husband of a dear friend of mine made a “joking” comment – in front of said friend and me – about wishing their kids were better looking, and insinuating it was her fault. What a shallow fuck. Not to mention, she is gorgeous, and their kids are amazing. My hackles went up, but this was before I knew about cheaters. Now I’m wondering, was this comment alone damning enough to be evidence? Never mind that there are other red flags. He’s a snide, entitled P.A. workaholic who talks a little too much about his attractive young coworker while his wife spends long days in the boonies taking care of their young kids.
Saaaaame
The gut feeling
The controlling, nasty nature
Hellish, I wish I had known sooner and not wasted 15 years.
Yeah….my ex was like that too and it was wrapped up in a phony, nice guy image. He was deeply insecure and would make nasty remarks under his breath and then paint a phony smile on his face and wish you a nice day.
He was too much of a conflict avoidant coward to address things that bothered him so he had to get little digs in that he could avoid having to own.
Then of course he’d play dumb and pretend he had no idea why you were upset….after all, he’d wished you a nice day.
I briefly dated someone like this and was friends with a woman like this. It’s scary how they can fool people into thinking they’re kind and care about humanity.
That was my experience. He never owned up to any of the jabs, snide comments, eye rolls. He didn’t even own up to the lying on the day we closed on our house and went our separate ways. Coward. I still wonder if he’s changed. How could he not be jolted into a wake up?
The day we signed papers of her giving up the house she lied to the clerk to infer I had cheated and she was the victim! When I showed up later to sign the office was concerned I had coerced her signature. They apparently made phone calls and double checked documents. Satisfied, they gave me the paperwork to sign. When it was done the clerk said she and XH divorced and asked what ended our marriage. “She cheated and had no remorse.” To which the clerk said, “Funny. She said you were the one.”
What bitch, right to the end.
I bet female cheaters get away with the lie that they were the ones cheated on far more than a male would.
It at least shows she was embarrassed enough to make up the lie.
Or my family’s love.
He betrayed them too.
^^^
And all the mutual friends who love you, too.
He would come home from work and immediately change his clothes. He worked a desk job not construction, where I might understand. Sometimes he’d even throw a load of laundry in before saying hello. It struck me as odd at the time. Now I get it. Had to wash off scents and stains.
This. Mine started washing his own clothes for the first time in his lazy life. Long after D-day he still wouldn’t admit that it was because he was afraid I’d smell her or see stains, but his explanation for this sudden change made no sense.
Ex spent 3 nights taking her to and from work as her van had broken down, and spending hours at her caravan. I was already upset at the amount of time and attention he spent on her, but hadn’t realised what was going on. On one night he got back and went directly into the shower telling me she’d been baking and burnt some bread, and he wanted to wash the smell off. I’ll never know, but I do wonder if that was the night they had sex instead of discussing how they wouldn’t, to save our marriage. He told me they’d had this discussion some time earlier.
Mine would strip off his scrubs in the Landry room, and start a loud with only that. When I’d ask why, he’d act snarky “I’m the only one who does laundry”. Um no. He smelled differently—like booze some days (he’s a relapsed alcoholic), vapes and cigarettes, sometimes like fruity perfume—turns out it was a cheap Walmart body spray that the sex worker wore. The kicker that I can find funny in hindsight is the strange shaved strip down his chest. He wasn’t a super hairy person, but she must have claimed him by shaving this strip on his chest. At the end of our summer or wreconciliation, I took my older son back to college. When I returned, he had the strip shaved again… had she been in my house again? Most likely.
Yes, Dracula would RUN to the laundry room from coming in from his car to get his jacket and clothes in the washer before I could touch them. Once, when I was pregnant with my first, I surprised him in the kitchen when he was coming in from the outside to get to the laundry room. He pushed me so hard to get to the washer, I fell against the counter and was fearful for my pregnancy.
And smelling like cigarettes and chewing gum to hide that he’d been smoking something – weed, cigarettes, vaping, etc. Which was so odd as he was a severe asthmatic. Like asthma so bad he needed an inhaler several times every single day. Which just shows what a dumbass he is that he’s smoking!
Eeeew.
Sickening.
I wish you well and thriving!!!!!! That you moved on and have put a lot of space in between, never look back!!!
Disgusting a.h.
He bought new underwear.
Same. At 60 he was now wearing colored bikini briefs. Ugh!
mine, too. Going to the gym 3x a week and bikini underwear hidden on a closest shelf for his Adult Friend Finder selfies and hooking up..a 65 year old man!! For months I had been begging him to just tell me, I knew in my gut he was cheating. Of course, he said I was crazy, he’d never do that. The day I found the acct, (one he’d had for 10 years), I was awake all night, wondering how my life could have changed so drastically, but I waited, followed him on this acct for 3 weeks, reading emails as he talked shit about me and made plans to have sex with complete strangers. I was married over 35 years, but so glad to be getting out of this shitshow..I will never understand.
Oh… goodness Kathy!
What forethought to hide and watch for a while… it must have been SOOO painful, but you were in real time. Most of us are trying to go back in time and recreate our side of events to put things together and re-write our histories. You had the advantage (when you’re looking back) of having a had ring-side seat. That seems valuable, because you knew exactly what was going on in your marriage AND what he was doing in secret.
What an ass Kathy. You don’t deserve that. He’s a loser.
Yup. changed the style of his underwear and began grooming his pubes.
Yup groom the pubes and whiten the teeth.
Mine too!
Mine bought new underwear and shaved his chest hair. I hated it because his chest hair would start to grow in and he’d want to snuggle with me and it was uncomfortable. I asked him to stop and he wouldn’t. Now I know why…He also tried trimming down his pubic hair to “see if I would like it”. I had lived with his pubic hair for 29 years. He didn’t change it for me. He had a hairy back and ass…if I wanted him to shave anything, it was those two things! LOL! He never took an effort to look good or lose weight for me. For the other woman he shed a good 50 lbs in a few months.
I guarantee the only reason the other woman chased after him was his money. He’s nothing to look at.
While my fw looked ok, I mean no movie star but ok; I do know she was after a meal ticket. Hell everyone knew it. He wasn’t her first married man rodeo for the same reason, but he was her boss, so…
Worked out ok though. She got a steady meal ticket, but he took her out of the trailer park and she landed right back in it a few years down the line. Well deserved.
Same here. Started washing his own clothes and completely shaved his pubes. Said because he was sweaty.
After 36 years mine manscaped. I called him out on it & he said it was for the dermatologist skin inspection. It was for the parasite 26 ish girlfriend howorker.
There were all sorts of signs. I knew. This was not the first and will not be the last.
The kicker was finding deer antler velvet from Groupon (supposed testosterone booster) half empty in a drawer in the dining room. At that point we had not had s3x in months since he could not “rise to the occasion”
Then my teen daughters saw him s3xexting someone that was not me.
One thing that in real time during the “good” years that I thought was a good thing was that my fw was always very adventuresome in terms of sex. On the beach at night, in the water, in the bathroom while visiting others, all sorts of risky situations. I pretty much went along for the ride. I mean I enjoyed sex too, and of course I knew that if I didn’t please him he would stray, (lol) lotta good it did me. Now I wonder if that was not a red flag that he liked the risk, and that he was more prone to cheat.
We never got caught, but he always took advantage of situations for risky sex.
Mine too! I thought even when it happened that it was a way for him to control me sexually. And it worked; I had to keep my mind on all around me rather than on “enjoying” the experience.
Later, I would wipe out the irritation of being not-cherished by remembering a single sweet memory from college days of a single tryst under the sheltering arms of a dense evergreen, in a remote corner of a park, with my French beau who I’d always thought of as a delightful sort of Peter Pan. Not a keeper; I wanted someone solid. Hah.
Years after I’d left, my post-Marine son walked in on him and his since-college girlfriend going wild on the living room floor. House was unlocked, and he was expected. So this proved what? Studly dad? Creepy jerk!
Okay, it’s a Thursday challenge. I posted the wrong column. More coffee…
Who knows what I’ll do tomorrow?
It’s working. I had a similar issue in a Zoom class this week. We just have to hang in there and hang on right now!
How about an OW letter? I get a major dilithium crystal charge when you run an OW letter.
????
#chumpcatniphigh
???? Or we could share gooey texts and emails we found from the APs. Always good for a laugh.
I love this one that one of the OW wrote MrWonderful after he shared with her a link to erotica he liked. She said something that the link must have been wrong because it was a story about siblings in an incestuous relationship. hahahaha Naw, that is what FW is into. You won the sparkly turd. Enjoy!
hahahahaha
Unicornomore, he stopped inviting me to office functions shortly after he hired the HoWorker. He couldn’t stop taking about her. Dropped her name constantly. Told me how I much would like her. I don’t. Talked about her writing erotica, which amused me since she was a bible carrying Christian. That hypocritical whore came to my house for his birthday party talking about how she brought his favorite cake, and his favorite olives. I’d invited his entire office. I told her I already made his favorite cake and showed her the jar of his favorite olives in the fridge. She didn’t even look slightly shamed.
He had already insisted I not work on the base where he worked as a GS14. He claimed my salary would just make us pay more taxes. Now I know he didn’t want me around to see all those late nights were just fucking that Howorker. He wanted his coworkers to forget he was married to me.
He moved out of our bedroom. Claimed he couldn’t sleep in our bed. He slept in the bed if I was gone.
He was so mean to me. Deliberately cruel, gaslighting me. He could not be pleased. He started fights so he could leave. He hated me. He hates me even more since I left him. He has contested this divorce for 23 months. He thinks our marital assets are all his. I can’t wait for the final judgement. The Judge will force him to comply with the Law.
????????????
It’s a good challenge!
Ha ha, CL, you are forgiven. I had to look twice because I had a little too much to drink last night toasting the birth of my first grandchild!
Oh how fantastic–congratulations!
Awesome! Congrats.????
Congrats, Attie! ????
Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Grandma sounds like an amazing title and occupation!!!!!!
Thank you so much. I’m in heaven!
Awww, congratulations!! My mom tells me all the time how much more she loves being a grandparent over a mom. Thanks, mom! Lol. But you do get all the snuggles and fewer of the scream sessions. I hope you are able to visit the baby!
Also, grandma doesn’t get blamed for whatever goes wrong in the grandkid’s life. Grandparents often are given credit for being wise…not an accolade often offered to mere parents. Until the kids have kids….
I wasn’t allowed to go to the hospital of course (we’re in lockdown again in France) but I kept him for 5 hours yesterday while the kids were running round registering his birth and so on. My oldest son is living with me at the moment until he moves into his new place in July and he’s even more ga ga than I am (I actually put the kitchen timer on the table when son was holding the baby so he wouldn’t get more time than I did)! And thank you all for the congratulations. It’s a new chapter for me, that’s for sure!
Congratulations Attie!! kitchen timer, priceless. “It’s my turn now!” lol
Attie,
How wonderful!!! Congratulations!
And, CL, I love that you’re human. Plus, we chumps love challenges, regardless of the day.
When I first met him, he would proudly tell me (unsolicited) that he had never cheated on any of his GFs (he was 30 at the time). Ends up that is all he did to his WIFE of 15 yes starting at year 2.
NEVER marry a project, or ‘build a man’ to their fullest potential, for they will surely end up resenting you and downgrading with someone who will stroke and pander to their new found inflated and fragile ego.
Agree 100%
People who lack accountability will always shift the blame.
The person who was with them when they were down reminds them of their failures and “bad” feelings, so they move where the “good” feelings are, aka attention and ego boosts.
That’s why I say hell no to protect boyfriends. I ain’t Bob the Builder for nobody but myself.
He got really mean. I couldn’t do anything right – and everything I did he’d twist to be somehow an attack on him. He started accusing me of being controlling. He started taking more care with how he looked. He became desperate for “alone time” (I’m an extrovert and he’s more of an introvert; I tried so hard to honor that difference, and he took advantage of that, going to her during that “alone time”). He changed how he kissed me and how we had sex (yes we continued to be intimate, but it was like he was learning new tricks). Mostly, though, it was the rage and accusations that I’d crushed all of his dreams and ruined his life.
There are now 2 Rebeccas.
I’m 11 years post-day and many years since the divorce was final.
Hope others can tell us apart!
OMG! “he changed how he kissed me”. That triggered a memory for me. He suddenly changed how he kissed me about 5 years before dday and I really did not like his new “technique” – I just tolerated it; it was easier than dealing with the rage that would inevitably accompany me having an independent thought about our physical life. Thanks Rebecca for turning on the light bulb 🙂 Now I need go sit down and plant my palm on my forehead repeatedly :/
My daughter gave me a vase/pot with a human face on it.
Obviously, used it to grow a palm.
X didn’t like to kiss the first 27 years of our relationship. It made me a little sad, but I thought never being kissed was a small price to pay for being married to such great guy.???? About a year before discard he decided he liked to kiss and wanted to do it often. I felt bad because kissing him gave me the creeps. Now I know why. My current boyfriend is a great kisser. ????
Well, I think this entire challenge warrants a group facepalm! You’re not alone.
????????♀️ ????????♂️ ????????♀️????????♂️????????♀️ ????????♂️
The changes in bed were number one for me. He was always an awful lay, but he got more creative at being awful.
“…he got more creative at being awful.” haha.
I swear that some of my ex’s new “moves” in the bedroom were de facto practice sessions.
#sexguineapig
Spinach
I swear that some of my ex’s new “moves” in the bedroom were de facto practice sessions.
I’m open minded person and from the beginning I believed in good communication- sex related as well.
Your comment reminded me something- at some point he started asking me different questions about brands of lingerie, about the way women experience different stuff in bed, ways to pleasure the woman.
Stupid me thought that I would be getting a nice gift ( never happened) or will be pleasure in bed ( oh please….)
I was his free human encyclopedia- extracting info in order to impress his hookers, women he dated etc.
It felt like a double betrayal….
On the top of that- I was hearing small negative comments about the way I looked, was, being deprived of a healthy sexual life for years.
Yes, same here. He wanted to try new things that pleased me in bed, while not worrying a bit about what pleased me in life. And he was never good in bed, and clearly needed the practice at pleasing a woman!
Hey Rebecca, thank you for writing that for me. Same exact story here. Innocent things I’d say would become huge fights because obviously I was trying to ruin his life. Really? I just asked you why you would want to visit New York in February instead of waiting until the weather got better. That somehow became I didn’t want him to ever go anywhere and I somehow stopped him from living his life. Then I’d be the one who would end up hysterically cying and apologizing. WTF?
I saw what you wrote above, GiveTimeTime. The sex stuff is awful, possibly the most humiliating thing for me to remember. I don’t think I’ve ever shared the following with CN, because it just feels so vulnerable, but here goes:
Right before D-Day #1 in 2004 (which was just a week after STBX returned from a research trip where she’d indulged in a brief fling), we were having sex, and STBX got this really weird look on her face and asked why I didn’t act more interested in her breasts. Mind you, I’d always been plenty interested in them, but I guess I didn’t worship them actively enough. Everything about the question itself and her tone of voice was off. After D-Day, of course, I understood the context.
Fast-forward 14 years. I stayed with STBX because she seemed so very sorry about Affair #1, was eager to do all the therapy, etc. (It was all kibbles for her.) Anyway, throughout the summer of 2018, STBX was acting strange, but I thought it was because her mother had just died, and we were helping her dad clear out the house for a possible sale, etc. I never in a million years thought that she would be having an affair, because she was consulting weekly with her therapist (who had been my therapist), and because STBX is an unconvincing liar in general. (Turns out she can get away with a lot when she doesn’t have to lie to my face about it, because I’m not asking direct questions.) Apart from what I’m about to share, the only other alarm bell was one time I saw a notification on her phone that she had gotten a message from “AP name,” and it was a name I didn’t recognize. I thought about joking that she must have a new girlfriend or something, but I didn’t actually say that, because I was treating her with kid gloves after the death of her mother.
Anyway, apart from that text notification, the only other indication I had that something was wrong was when we had sex one afternoon, and STBX wore the same weird look that I had seen after Affair #1. She said, “you aren’t really enjoying this very much, are you?” or something to that effect. I replied that it was just an afternoon quickie, and it was fine, and I was distracted and not looking to have the orgasm of my life. STBX clearly was imbuing the occasion with MUCH more significance than I was. Struck by the eerie similarity to the exchange we’d had after Affair #1, I thought about saying something, but again I chalked it up to the fact that STBX’s mom had recently died, and she must be re-evaluating things in her life.
That was my reasoning as well after STBX came to me crying a few weeks later and said she wasn’t sure she could keep going (with our relationship). It wasn’t until later that week, when she finally came clean that she was not just looking for an open marriage but had already opened it up for herself, that I realized the truth. “Chump” describes perfectly how I felt after learning the truth.
Anyway, I feel for all chumps who have felt things were off while being intimate with their cheaters. I guess it stands to reason that we would sense something is off during those moments, because it’s not as though cheaters are master spies or whatever, and we are all quite exposed and vulnerable in bed. I don’t do this anymore, but for a long time, I was upset with my chump self for not saying anything before D-Day #2 when STBX acted strangely during sex. I wonder now if she would have spilled the beans entirely if I had pointed out the similarity in her expression from the time after Affair #1. But, then I remind myself that I DIDN’T mention it because I was trying to be kind, while she was devaluing and deceiving me. And that’s really the only thing I need to know.
She joined a choir. Sounds innocent doesn’t it? Choir practise was an evening or two a week and then the odd performance at weekends. Who was I to know that she wasn’t attending the practises and that she could never make the performances because of “work”? I only worked out that bit of the jigsaw puzzle a couple of years after D Day; a work colleague’s wife who was a member of the same choir recognised my name and mentioned – in passing – that she seldom turned up.
I should have worked it out much sooner. She can’t sing for sh*t.
Also …. she became aggressively protective of her phone. She never let out of her sight and always took calls in another room. This bit her on the ar*e eventually; she synched it to the iPad that the kids used. This did not end well for her.
LFTT
Yes, this is how I finally caught Dracula. I knew something was off, and asked him all the time if he was cheating. He denied it all the time. But he had synced his iPhone to an iPad that he left home one time, and odd people were texting him. I popped up all of their names in Social Media and found my evidence, all of which I screen shot and used in court to crush him.
Chris,
They are seldom as clever as they think they are! Sounds like you got a good result.
I was able to use screenshots of Ex-Mrs LFTT’s open FB profile to disprove a number of her lies in court.
LFTT
FW father (FWF) is aggressively protective of his phone. There was a time where he shared his computer password with me. The reason for this was in the event he died and I needed to know where to find specific information for handling his affairs.
At some point that switched. Mind you, I never went on his computer, but after I found some things while cleaning out my parents’ house last year, I tried one of his old computers and the password was not what it should have been in the beginning, nor what other passwords he told me over the years.
He was always, and I mean ALWAYS on his phone. VERY protective of it. He also always carried a “work bag” with him, even when he wasn’t working. When he had a major surgery and was in the hospital for weeks after, he wanted his computer bag, computer, and phone with him AT ALL TIMES! He slept with that phone in his bed with him. Finally, when he went home after the surgery, he left his computer bag there before going to my parents’ vacation home. When I was cleaning out their house, I looked in the pockets of that computer bag to see what was so interesting that he had to have it with him at all times. I found thumb drives with LOTS of porn.
Then a year later, when he was going back to the hospital for checkups, he had a different bag that he’d carry around with him that had his catheters in it. He asked me to open it to either get something out or put something in and I saw that he had inside pockets sewn into this bag (cheap nylon/canvas bag). I unzipped an inside pocket and saw another thumb drive. I don’t even need to guess what is on that drive.
FWF has a strange hatred of women/attraction to women. He hates, HATES women in charge, business leaders. Having been a muckety muck in the business world, he knows “big name” executive women and he says they are all stupid (because he used to work with some of them).
I think the biggest thing to notice/remember is how you feel around your FW. There have been times I’ve felt the ickiest feelings when we would be in the company of certain other women. Turns out that was my intuition telling me that person was an AP of FWF. In front of the family and everything, he’d invite them (and their husbands) over for dinner and sit next to the woman and they were probably having a grand time pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes.
When I have an instant, gut reaction to a woman near my father, I now accept that my intuition is telling me something.
Good point about icky feelings. I have had these feelings about a few women over the years. FW insisted over and over that there was only one AP, but I doubt that. One woman in particular, who was the sister of my BIL’s wife, was very strange and awkward with me every time I saw her. There was something creepy about her. Later I found out the jerk was attracted to her, but he insists nothing happened. After D-day I found a mysterious draft in his emails. It had no addressee, but said the single line “I need to see you tonight.” This draft was made a year before he started up with the AP I know about at around the time I was getting a weird vibe from that previous woman. He would not admit there is anything to it, but just brushed it off because the email wasn’t sent and said he has no memory of it. As far as I’m concerned, that was more than likely just a first draft of a later email that was sent to that creepy woman. I’ll never know everything he did and it’s been tough to accept.
Your FWF sounds like a horrible misogynist and all around poor excuse for a human being. I’m sorry you had to see all that porn and meet his pig APs. Yuck!
“She can’t sing for sh*t.”
I love that detail. The shit they pull off is unbelievable and we feel so gullible in retrospect, but, honestly, at the time, we had no reason to be suspicious.
My ex can’t dance for sh*t and HATES to dance, but if he’d said he was taking dancing lessons, I probably would have applauded his efforts. Geez Louise!!
S@35,
It’s not just that I had no reason to be suspicious. I knew that if I’d questioned her newly acquired hobby, I’d have been shouted down for not supporting her and being a controlling bully who was trying to undermine her; this was her “go to” response at any time that I had the temerity to ask a probing (and justified) question or set a boundary by saying “no.”
LFTT
Omg. I get it. Ugh.
Also, it sounds like *she* was the bully. Projection and manipulation. Classic!
S@35,
You got it in one.
She pulled a similar stunt with our son when he started asking “too many questions” about a savings account in his name that she was trustee for. Thankfully he saw this for what it was; a smokescreen to try and hide some really dubious sh*t that she had done.
I made sure he got his money back (>£1K), but watching him realise that his mother didn’t just steal my money, but his and his sister’s too was heart-breaking.
LFTT
Oh no! That’s totally heartbreaking. Yet another betrayal of trust. She’s awful.
Good thing those kids have one sane parent!
My Ex was constantly on his phone and was “aggressively protective” of his phone too.. In the past he left his phone on the bedroom dresser while he took a shower. During the affair, he would even take it into the bathroom with him when he took a shower.
He left his phone on the counter, face up.
It buzzed. I saw a text from an unknown number asking him whether he thought they should circumsize their new baby.
That was a tip off. In more ways than one.
Holy crap, Maryam. What a dick he is. And how did he explain that text—wrong number?
Nah. At that point he was all “they are my true family.” Turned out that OW’s baby was not biologically his, but he didn’t care.
There were too many signs for me to possibly write about them all here. Some of them were so absolutely glaring that it now makes me sick that I let it go on for so long. Realizing how blind I allowed myself to be still concerns me. Am I that gullible about everything? How can I ever trust ANYONE? That’s one of the worst parts about this.
I have already decided I am not trusting anyone again. Its a bad way to live but a lot of ‘friends’ knew but didn’t want to get involved and are still friends with her. I feel like an idiot. So besides her constant lying and treating me terrible, while leading me to believe it was all in my head, everyone else was being dishonest to me.
Its like there was this big joke going on and everyone was in on it besides me.
Me too. Everyone knew but me. My friends sided with him as well, so the discard was total.
Chumps, avoid any guy that is in a band. Few are in it for the music.
KR,
I’m so sorry. That’s awful. Just awful. What’s wrong with people?
I’m so sorry KR. Take your time to heal and fix your picker. I hope someday you find someone that appreciates you for you. I look at it this way, if I’m an honest woman, there’s got to an honest man out there too…, I just have to be selective. I hope you find that honest woman someday and enjoy.
That’s gut wrenching. You feel duped and tricked. It’s hard to imagine being able to trust people.
I get your concern…honestly, I am a smart person but my default is to believe people until proven otherwise. In some circumstances that is a fault but I choose to not see it as one.
One of my challenges is that I now believe he was a cheater from the beginning so really there was never a “change” …I thought he was a quirky dude (but loved him in his quirks) but since his actions were consistent, my situation was apocalyptic before I considered cheating as a cause.
In the end, I remarried and he is a trustworthy guy. I have chosen to trust even after being burned so badly and thusfar (8 years into this relationship) he remains trustworthy. He is not fond of me telling him that I love this in him, he says it makes him sound dull but after we all suffered what we did, trustworthiness is a huge, shiny thing, not a boring thing
I really struggle with this too. I thought I was a passable judge of character and it seems that I mostly am but when it comes to him I was dead wrong for I guess our whole relationship. So I suppose he was also consistent.
I was never allowed to touch his phone and it was always face down.
He would ask me on his days off if I was coming home for lunch. I thought it was bc he wanted to see me but I guess he wanted to see if he could fuck the neighbor.
I never wanted to kiss him and thought he tasted gross. I was pregnant so blamed my hormones
We never had sex. I also blamed this on pregnancy, I thought he was disgusted by my pregnant self.
I remember sitting in bed alone while he was downstairs watching tv like he started to do every night at bed time and I thought “this is it? This is what my marriage is like?”. I think that was the biggest red flag and the biggest lesson for me. I KNEW it was off. My intuition had alarm bells sounding but I tried to ignore it.
Looking back his narcissism is very clear. At the time I believed he was a good person.
Trustworthiness is everything!
If that’s dull, give me dull!