Isn’t it nice when the Other Woman understands you? No, really better than you understand yourself! She knows so many things about you, and your kids too (the poor resilient little lambs). And just because you’re frigid, controlling, and batshit crazy, does not mean she doesn’t have sympathy — and hey, maybe a few suggestions on how you could do better.
Shall we take a moment to meditate on the condescension of mistresses and have a collective vomit? BleeeerrrrrcccchhhhHHhh.
Guys, I know you suffer too — and I’m about to review “No More Mr. Nice Guy” — so stick with me despite this chick centric post today– but I feel compelled to write about Sara Symonds and OW of her ilk. Symonds, you may recall, is the professional mistress I appeared on a HuffPo panel with recently. She is a self described “recovering” mistress of 15 years — “been clean over three years” — and runs the site Mistresses Anonymous.
A bit on Ms. Symonds, who struck me rather as a Mary Poppins of infidelity. Perky in all the wrong places. She claims to have been the OW to Gordon Ramsey, the apoplectic chef of television fame, and more revoltingly, Jeffrey Archer. Archer, if you’re not keen on British politics, is a fabulist and NPD extraordinaire. A disgraced former member of parliament, he was jailed on various scams, but went on to write best-selling novels. (Putting that talent for fiction to good use, apparently.) Ringo Starr once described Archer as a “the kind of bloke who would bottle your piss and sell it.”
So when it comes to falling for narcissist sparkles, Ms. Symonds has quite the resumé. Having spent most of her adult life as a mistress (shacked up in a swanky part of Westminster on some guy’s dime), she missed out on those other things adults do, like obtain some professional rank, marry, have children. She instead now fashions herself as the:
World’s first and only Infidelity Analyst, you can imagine that I’m a pretty busy girl. A real life mix between Carrie Bradshaw, Dear Amy, and a smidge of Jackie Collins thrown in.
And a simulacrum of Gypsy Rose Lee with a sprinkle of Nancy Reagan. Followed by a light dusting of Barbara Walters. She’s like your girlfriend, Girlfriend!
In the name of universal sisterhood, we need to all get along.
Said Symonds on HuffPo Live:
“As women in the sisterhood, I think we should all be on the same page, because wives and mistresses have got so much in common. They’re both sharing half of a man who’s lying and getting the best of two women.”
Isn’t that funny? Where was the OW’s sisterhood when she was screwing your husband?
I don’t blog about affair partners that much, because it has a tendency of devolving away from the subject at hand — your particular cheater. Yes, I think OW/OM are culpable, yes, I think they suck. But really, at the end of the day, they are beside the point. First of all, they’re usually not the only one, and second of all — your beef is with your spouse. If that person had boundaries, this wing nut would not be in your life, period.
But I have to take issue with the galling condescension OW have for betrayed wives. It really is quite the leit motif among the comments at Stupid Shit Affair Partners Say and the comments of Ms. Symonds, a wannabe celebrity mistress. Oh you poor benighted chump, you just don’t know your man.
Symonds provides a handy list of How-Tos for you to keep your husband, after she’s done with him. (You can have him back, no really.) She calls this “Wife School.” Yes, wives need schools. Sluts? Hey, they’re just born with it.
Have sex with him every day! “Don’t pile on the weight after you get ‘comfortable’ with him, nor let your dress sense go. Looking good will help YOU feel better, as well as making sure your husband only has eyes for you.” Be attentive! Ask him about his day! Put a fresh ribbon in your hair when you greet him at the door.
Oh hang on, no that last one was from a women’s home economic’s textbook from 1955, entitled How To Be a Good Wife. But you get the idea, chumps. Be good kibbles, and they’ll never stray.
Yeah. Right.
It’s easy to dismiss Ms. Symonds as an attention whore in a leopard-print bustier, but her attitudes about infidelity and marriage are sadly common. I guess that crap sells. But from one “Infidelity Analyst” to another, Sarah — sisters don’t fuck other sister’s husbands. We have less in common than you think.
yes, her “tips” are really just a list of all the reasons the wife is to blame for the affair. Fuck that.
As a mistress for 15 years she also has no idea what a real marriage or probably even a real relationship is about so it’s ridiculous for her to be dispensing advice. All she has heard are the lame complaints of cheating men about their wives. Complaints which may or may not actually even be true. Her advice also sounded to me like it could have been boiled down just to say “feed him constant kibbles” and maybe “who cares about me? It’s all about him”. And that’s not what I would want in a marriage. I would like a partnership of equals with an actual mature, grown up man with integrity.
CL, YES, YES, YES!!!
I mean who does the whore think she is? Honestly!
As spouses, we see the REAL PERSON…not the: sexy, buy-you-dinner-at-a-fancy-restaurant- before-I- bang-you, hipster that is their current squeeze. We see the guy that walks around with his hair mussed and face not shaven early in the morning after no sleep because the kids were sick.
As spouses, we do the REAL work while she sashays around in a negligee, kitten heels and martini awaiting his arrival for their clandestine rendezvous.
This woman has the GALL to tell ME how to be a wife???? Try being one sometime and let me know how it goes. Ms. Symonds must have never been one by the looks of it. And why should she? She gets all these ‘perks’ when we are keeping everything under control on the home front…
And OF COURSE she wants us to take our husbands back! After a few hours, or a few days, she tires of him and having a ‘real’ relationship with him (not just the horizontal one) take work.
Ok rant over.
I thought you restrained yourself rather well on the HuffPo video yesterday. I found her ridiculous and stupid while she tried ever so hard to be charming and quippy. The fact that she called the wife (and insinuating how generous she was by asking if the wife was driving the kids at the time of the call) and then was “appalled” by the wife’s response shows that she is a moron. She wants to incite drama and make infidelity look glamorous. I just found her repulsive.
I agree, the calling the wife bit was low. That and the fact she called three different wives. (Slow learner, much?) Yeah, imagine. The wife of the man you are fucking wasn’t nice to you.
Yes – Elin Nordegren really did pack on those pounds and let herself go. What a cow.
Sarah Slutbag makes me ashamed to be British.
Exactly. And did she ever ask Tiger about *his* day?
I find that the more I talk to people who have been cheated on they more often than not are the ones who were asking about days, doing things to keep things spicy and generally making a bit effort. The cheater, on the other hand, was pretty uninterested in the life of the spouse, were doing the same old in and out, and didn’t feel they needed to make any effort.
That’s why a lot of us find our next marriages/relationships are awesome: we have done the hard work to heal and learn and then when we meet someone all our great qualities from yore are honed and we’ve got buckets of great new ones. And we’ve learned we’re not perfect and when to step off if things aren’t right.
Well said. I really resent the implication.
In all seriousness I WAS cooking 5 course dinners, and meeting him at the door after work in lingerie with candles lit.
Didn’t stop him shagging 5 hookers a week every week.
I was cooking amazing food. He misses it now. 🙂
That’s a very hopeful thought Nord. I like that.
I’m usually very opposed to using this word, but the only phrase that suits that whore is “fucking &^#$.”
Like all “professional mistresses,” she suffers from delusion and NPD. Unfortunately, so does a large percentage of our population, so I am sure she has no problem in gathering followers to swallow her particular brand of glitter covering a turd.
Apparently you didn’t get the memo. I’m usually pro-potty mouth, but I’m not cool with the C word. Thanks.
You know the part about the call pissed me off too. Everyone deals with emotions differently, I went to work, with the PUBLIC after seeing him with the other woman for the first time…and he got CAUGHT, we hadn’t split up yet.
I handled my job beautifully, no one that I work with even knew till I was able to go home…hours later. Granted I crumbled later but my mind, even after seeing it myself certainly wouldn’t have made me drive off a cliff with my kids in the car because some whore thinks she’s that important.
You know they say “It’s all fun and games till someone gets hurt”. Well these “professionals” out to make a quick buck are hurting people over and over and over again, and I shudder at the emotions and actions they may bring out. It’s not a game – it’s people’s lives, Kids and all.
Oh and I didn’t get the memo either, good to know…
One thing I’ve noticed about mistresses/OWs/APs is that they are terribly judgmental.
They don’t realize it and they get very worked up about how other people are judging them. But if they talk a little, they say things about what the wife/husband/faithful partner did or didn’t do.
Even if they now see through the nonsense the cheater told them, at one time, they justified what they were doing by some pretty serious judgments on the faithful wife/husband. (And it sounds to me like Symonds has somehow managed to realize that the guys lied to her, but still believe that the wives did something wrong.)
Hey, maybe if you’re on another panel discussion someday and the co-cheater pulls the don’t judge me line, you can ask them about their judgment of someone else’s marriage and family.
What about the hubby’s responsibility? Mine doesn’t have that buff body, he sure doesnt dress sexy for me, when it comes to lurking me sexually it’s touch me, lets go! He puts his job before the kids and I. His idea of romance is beer and a video in his lounge chair. His sweet nothing’s are what’s for dinner…. Hmmm did I cheat? No… She’s nothing more than a woman trying to justify her sins, by belittling the real woman in this world
Absolutely! Symonds has never been married or had a real relationship, so she doesn’t have a clue.
Great point, BI! They sure dish it out, but don’t take it.
I read the how to list. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
My immediate thought was — If I’m going to go to all this trouble, it’s going to be for someone a helluva lot hotter than my X.
HAHAHAHAHAHA! Get real, “lady”.
This notion of “the sisterhood” here seems like a pathetic attempt to bond to avoid being judged. But there is right and there is wrong, and someone with her pattern of behavior is really wrong. One should not use solidarity to camouflage repeated moral/emotional failures.
Better to bond with good people, whatever their race, gender or sexual orientation (or whatever) than to auto-bond with someone who invokes some similarity with you that is irrelevant to the real differences (behavioral differences/values differences) that you have with that person.
Well said. And as another chump rightly pointed out, while she doesn’t want to be judged, she certainly keen on judging her other “sisters.”
I don’t think she really wants to bond. Her actions say otherwise. I think your first take was right — it’s camouflage for another agenda.
Bingo, David!
Thanks, CL and Jbaby.
There is much camouflage/pollution out there. Folks want to muddy the issue and make it “complex.” CL has done a great job of flame throwing away the kind of cobwebs that the excuse makers want to spin.
You know… you could do all of those things. You could have sex every day, keep your body as tight and lithe as a teenager’s, wear sexy outfits… but I think many cheaters want a piece of strange. Even if I were super hot (and as mentioned above, there are many super hot celebrity folks we can list who have been cheated on) and we had sex all the time… I wouldn’t be something different. I’d still be the same me, and there are plenty of people out there who don’t want the same. There just isn’t that same high, the same adrenaline rush, the same excitement because you fancy yourself to be some sort of secret agent who does everything in the shadows, trying hard not to get caught.
I’m sure that many people put spice in their marriages, and that works for them because they don’t have the mindset of entitlement that is the breeding ground for an A (“I deserve something new and exciting!”) to begin with. I could have pulled out the whole spice rack for my STBX, and I’m sure that he would’ve gone looking for someone who had saffron (expensive and not one I typically keep on hand). Plus, how do you then explain the couples who aren’t training hard at the gym and reenacting scenes from Fifty Shades of Grey but who still love each other and don’t cheat? I’m sick of the whole, “the BS has given up and is boring… no wonder the WS had to cheat.” The more I read about cheating and others’ accounts of cheating, the less I find that concept to be true.
true true!
Yes, true! All of her “tips for wives” are irrelevant for cheaters, because they want something different, on the sly. No matter how much sexual role-playing you do, or how many different dresses you buy, or how many times you dye your hair, you are the same woman, and he will want someone different.
I’m sick of the whole, “the BS has given up and is boring… no wonder the WS had to cheat.” “The more I read about cheating and others’ accounts of cheating, the less I find that concept to be true.” I found this to be true, too. Lies, lies, and more lies about the BS. Most of the time, there is no reason to cheat other than the cheater’s entitlement.
Not only is sex way hotter with the OW just because she is someone “new and different”, but if she is married, it is way, way more exciting because he is not only getting a piece of forbidden fruit, he is also screwing over her husband. I wouldn’t underestimate how of an affair’s excitement is the indirect hurting of the AP’s spouse, because I think that is a significant thrill for many cheaters. He sees himself as “winning” a trophy away from another man. Competition is exciting.
I think there is an element to that, at least with my ex’s final OW. She’s really young, she lived with a young, hot, buff guy and he ‘won’ her away. And she really played that angle ‘It’s so hard for me to hurt Boyfriend and walk away from 4 years with him’. Yes, so much harder to walk away from your young relationship than it was to walk away from two decades, two kids and a zillion memories, apparently.
Well, she ‘won’ a serial cheater who was also boinking others while seeing her. Hahahaha
I totally agree with this line of thinking.
Wife is letting herself go??
I’m still as thin, blonde and put together as the day we met. Him? Looks like he has a basketball under his shirt, thinning hair and dressed in blue button downs, khakis and loafers since prep school.
I wore nice things to bed, wore nice undergarments, walked around naked and did he notice? Nope! I was an object when he wanted one.
The wife isn’t giving him enough sex??
What about the dull sex he insisted on having? I could write you the step by step procedure along with the time per step. Like clockwork.
How stupid can a mistress be to believe anything a lying shit of a cheater would say about how boo-fucking-hoo his life is with his poor, dull, shrewish wife? He’s fucking with their heads too.
It wasn’t how awful I was. As a classic NPD he projected all his shit onto me. He had serious addiction issues—sex, alcohol and gambling. The fucking trifecta. I didn’t make him sooo miserable that he HAD to engage in deceit and pay for sex, drink to excess when he was traveling or I wasn’t around and spend thousands at casinos when he said he was traveling or working. It was the gawd damn dopamine rush he got from anticipating fucking around behind my back and getting away with something dirty. I suspect it was his way of getting back at his mother–the original NPD via me as the surrogate.
The worst of his behaviors? What he tried to make me believe about myself all those years because he couldn’t fucking face it in himself–a twist on a psychological Munchausen by proxy.
Why didn’t he just leave if his life with me was so gawd damn awful? “But I loved you so much, I was trying to find a way to be able to stay.” Isn’t that the definition of “have your cake and eat it too?”
(Sorry for the rant, but you guys know how you can get started and ten minutes later, you’ve written paragraphs slightly related to the post.)
Nwrain
Thank you so much for that, You just threw a net over all of my jumbled randon thoughts/facts/life and put it into beautifully coherant sentences.
He did this to me – after the love bombing stage of a couple of years and then just took and took and took, all the while deflating me one baffling episode after another. He is really good at it too..but he had better move because I will get him in the end if he won’t wake up and stop taunting me….
It’s been over a year since dday, so I’ve had some time to boil it down. Baffling is the perfect term, isn’t it? The one who says he’s/she’s your best friend and loves you more than anything is also the one who is psychologically abusing and sacrificing you–it’s like killing the fatted calf to make amends for his/her narcissistic sins. My husband could not admit that there was ANYTHING he could have done better in our marriage. Could not come up with one fucking thing. He would say he’d been a good husband. Not even, he could have been a better listener or wiped off the kitchen counter for god’s sake. The best he could do was to say that although we loved each other very much, there was something that happened between us that we couldn’t work out. Yeah, prostitution, gambling and excessive drinking.
Now I’ve done it again and gone off on a rant.
Glad to hear you’re making progress, Toni. I think about you.
Yep, my ex has the manipulative NPD mother and it took me a long time to figure out that since he can’t rebel against her he rebelled against me. That was when I was still trying to figure things out. Now I don’t bother trying to untie that knot anymore. But yeah, that stuff can make you crazy when you realise it.
Oh and the best part is now the Mom loves ME and I’m not going to pick up that slack…Oh No…they are all pretty messed up and I can’t wait till I can get it ALL out of my head and behind me. Hopefully the therapy will help, I’ve finally found a doctor.
So glad to hear, Toni! Knowing I just have to hold it together until Tuesday at 5:10 can keeps me going. 🙂
Narc MIL doesn’t love me but she sure as hell misses me and is not keen at all on the new chick on the scene. I’ve pretty much gone NC with the whole family as they’re all enablers and half of them are cheaters. This upsets them, apparently. Whatever.
I’d didn’t figure that out until recently. His mom died long before I knew him. I didn’t understand how some books I read about NPD described him as a woman hater of some sort. I thought that he loved women. He fucks around with them enough. Now I get it. He likes the idea of women, but it’s about controlling them and paying back even if it’s sub or unconsciously. Hell, it could be conscious for all I know. Therapist said it probably is buried pretty deep and he has years of practice keeping it down inside and using intractable patterns of managing relationships that he might have only have been able to feel an inner discomfort and then would lay his coping mechanisms on heavily-punishing me by abandonment, stonewalling, and projection. I like understanding it, if that’s possible. I fancy myself an armchair psychologist, though. Although I can get on a rant about it, I feel like I can fit it all in a little box instead of it running round and round in my head and heart. 🙂
Wow nwrain sounds like we have a lot in common. He didn’t speak to his Mother for 20 YEARS! Then one Mothers Day we were sitting on the couch, and he said “I’m calling my Mom” just like that…. I think he just wants the house when she dies to be honest. She has helped him out many times since then, a truck, taxes, dental, cash, you name it.
I always suspected he hated women, and as the years went by he let his guard down more and more and now I KNOW he hates women, all of them deep down. He calls all of his X’s nasty, crazy, scheming bitches, his daughter? “Just like her Mother” (WTF? She’s only 20!) ( and he hasn’t seen her in many years!)
His Mom is a horribly controlling NPD too, and I feel incredibly bad at how things turned out but like I told the therapist I thought I could love all that away and fix SO many things but all he did was take advantage of me in the end, in every way imaginable.
I’m not trying to “untangle” the skien so much anymore, but I too did a lot of reading and in my case too, it has helped me because I seriously thought it was me. I also find it interesting how much better my self esteem is. I mean I need to do ALOT of work on me, physically I totally let myself go but hopefully with some therapy and meds I’ll care again…but I don’t feel so hideous..
I think you’re spot on, nwrain. I don’t think my ex loves women or even his mother. I think he’s scared of his mother and completely manipulated by her and always has been. And since he can’t and has never been able to rebel against her he lures other women in, turns them into versions of her and then rebels against them. It’s sick but i’m like you, I do like to figure it out as it helps me deal with things.
Me too! Me Too! Paying for the “Sins of the Mothers” kinda thing..
Whoops, meant to post that under Nords comment about NPD Mom…
Weird when you realise this stuff, eh? The ex is not comfortable around men unless they’re less successful or in some other way ‘beneath’ him. And women who don’t fall for his charm or act like he’s the second coming of baby Jesus? They’ve got problems, according to him. I only realise all this stuff now and it is amazing I ignored/spackled that stuff for years. Hell, I remember when he was at one job and the head of the company was a woman and worked closely with 2 other women. They didn’t think he was the most amazing person to have ever come onboard so he used to say they had a witches brew going or some such nonsense. When I pointed out that he wouldn’t say that about 3 men working together he looked at me dumbfounded.
So true. I, also, want to do away with the saying “WS”. Wayward Spouse? That’s like “Oops, I took a wrong turn and got sidetracked…. I mean a side piece”. They are not Wayward they are Purposeful. It takes a lot of planning to conduct an affair. I’m going to call them PS, which stands for Piece of Shit!
POS works for me, although I just say ‘my serial cheating ex’ which sums it up nicely.
Right on. As you said, it’s about ***”I deserve…”***
Moving On,
You are right. It’s the intrigue. The James Bond angle. It’s about being better than someone, putting something over on other people. As CL says, it’s about having your cake and eating it. I think that’s why often the relationships don’t last once the wandering folks actually get together.
You are exactly right, MovingOn. This shit has zero to do with us, the chumps. Nothing. Zip.
I was a 26-year-old, brand-new girlfriend when he first cheated on me, just six months into the relationship. There was no monotony — how could there be? I was open-minded, fun, young and pretty. I was working, had friends. All was well, at least as far as I knew.
As I learned last November, he was the broken one. He had the problems. He was the NPD with major entitlement issues and weird sexual problems.
Whenever my mind starts to drift in that self-blame direction — I gained weight (yeah, maybe 10 lbs in eight years), I got depressed, I lost my job, I put too much pressure on him — I remember the person I was at 26 when he first fucked around. Then there is no denying that he has been the problem all along.
Also, I have a bone to pick with the whole idea of driving someone to cheating because of age, or weight, or getting too busy with life to look/act like a porn star. Who the fuck to do these NPDs think they are anyway to deserve that? This is life, not a movie. Where are my flowers and my European holidays and my diamonds? Why isn’t HE in the gym, watching HIS weight? Give me a break. These cheaters are often no prize either. And, as I’m sure most of us on here can attest, neither is the OW or OM in most cases.
Funny, your comment makes me think of when I first moved to be with him. We were out with friends and his sister in a bar. At one point I realised I hadn’t seen him in a bit so went to look around. He was sitting at a table with 3 women. I walked by, lightly slapped the back of his head, grabbed my stuff and left. His response? ‘My sister thinks you’re being ridiculous’. I remember telling him to fuck right off, don’t disrespect me by flirting with women in front of me. A year later (we were still living separately but spending most nights together) he disappeared one night and the next day gave me such a bizarre story that I believed it. I look back now and realise that he had cheated. He was cheating for years. And yes, I was 25, super hot (God, I wish I had left then, when I was still one hot bitch), fun, great job, interesting friends, funny, smart…honestly, anyone would have loved to have dated me at that point. And we were maybe 18 months into the relationship and he was fucking around. It’s astounding but the thing is he made me feel like the most special girl in the world and I fell for it, hook, line and sinker.
OH, and he hates me now because I am no longer charmed by him or thing he’s great. And I also committed the sin of getting older and less ‘perfect’. I’m still kind of great but yep, I got wrinkles and two kids later my body is no longer absolutely perfect.
I was thinking the same thing today SinS,
I have NO interest in seeing anyone now but it will probably be a cold day in hell before I do because I want someone to do things for ME! I deserve to be at least spoiled for a change, instead of ending up being someone’s mother. I have got to learn to act on what I know deep down…I’m really worth alot, he just brainwashed me otherwise. And his ass got pretty fat too, till he went on a fitness/youth frenzy to get a younger girl that he’s already having problems with because she “LIES!”. I know he’s a piece of crap I just need to get over it already…and if he stops doing drugs I’m sure he’ll be fat again…. My plan is just to nuture myself and be as healthy as possible, mentally AND physically…
Yes, I think I lost some of my confidence because he sucked it out of me. And that seems to be his MO: go for the confident, happy, peppy girl and slowly suck the life out of her. I consider it a testiment to my awesomeness that it took him so luck to suck me dry. The ones before me it only took him months or a year or two. Me? 20 years and he didn’t quite succeed.
The weird thing about mine, Nord, is that he never went for the hottest chick in the room, the most outgoing or successful or “peppy.”
He picked women who were shy, sweet, just above average beauties with few friends and confidence issues. He certainly made me feel as if I should be all those things — prettier, thinner, more successful and outgoing. But he never went for girls like that.
It’s been that way all along and I’m not sure why. Maybe we were easy to manipulate. Maybe those other types wouldn’t have put up with his shit?
I’ve heard of her before. Is she the author of “The Mistress’s Handbook?” It’s some garbage about how to “be a good mistress.” And, I shit you not, it’s a load of crap about how mistresses need to “be realistic” and understand that “when he tells you he’s leaving his wife for you, he’s probably lying.” Which is true, but instead of advising to, y’know, not be a mistress, she just says that one should keep that in mind and not get too attached.
I believe she was actually on Dr. Phil once. She tried to get all haughty-taughty with a woman in the audience who asked her a pretty good question: “If you know so much about how to keep a man, WHY CAN’T YOU GET YOUR OWN?”
To which Ms. Symonds says, “You’re any angry person. And that’s not attractive.”
Dr. Phil turned to her and said, “They’re not angry people, they are disgusted with YOU.”
…Go Dr. Phil!
Awesomeness!
I was right. It is the same person. Here’s her book on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Having-an-Affair-A-Handbook-for-the-Other-Woman-by-Sarah-Symonds-2007-/130887199739?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item1e797c2bfb
And here she is on Dr. Phil. This was actually a three-parter called “Inside Infidelity.”
http://drphil.com/shows/show/1325/
Witness and be…well…not surprised by her arrogance.
If Dr Phil said that, I may have to reconsider my contempt for him.
I wathced the huffpo deal and this woman is a blithering idiot.
I wonder if she and that Gibbs frump couldn’t hook up.
Yeah, not a fan of Dr. Blowhard but he does sometimes hit the nail on the head.
This woman obviously doesn’t realize that men/women cheat because of something lacking in THEM (integrity), NOT because of something lacking in their spouses. Many of my girlfriends whose spouses cheat are hot as hell, and they would and do perform anything in bed for their men every day and STILL the men cheat.
That same something is clearly lacking in these mistresses, plus they also lack any type of self-respect. I was with my ex for 17 years, and now that I’m newly single, I would never even consider getting involved with someone who is married. I’m just not that desperate/ pathetic. There is really no other way to look at it — any type of AP who is knowingly with someone who is married is just a plain loser.
wow, sunshine, you are like the 10th person I’ve seen saying their relationship was 17 years, so was mine! Is it a magic number?
How interesting. My faux reconciliation was 17 years.
I was with my ex for 17 years total as well! Weird!
One week shy of 18 years here, so yeah, 17 years as well.
Married 17 years, check! (together for 20)
Worth: the world to me. Apperently nothing to him, a bit of faux R… just to keep the cake coming. I currently hate most that he took my (and our children’s) family unit apart.
Back on topic: I also hate the idea that the AP thinks she got one over on me. I know she is worth far less, because of her low morals, of what she did to my children and (is about to do) to hers. But I try not to go there, it is not about her and me, as I learned so well here. I’m all done doing the pick-me dance, but boy, it’s so tempting to pick up the gauntlet and show her what I’m worth. Not to win STBX back, but to set things straight… I won’t, I know living well and reaching the state of Meh is what I should be working on.
Same.
Married for 17 years (our anniv is this sat actually) and together for 21 years. That is weird….
Divorce final 4 days shy of 18 years so 17 as well…….
One week shy of 17th anniversary he told me he wanted a divorce. Final at 18 years. Guess it is the 17-year-itch, which he scratched with the latest OW.
Me too – married for 17 and together for 21. Huh. Very odd coincidence.
Just shy of 16 years here. I think he started cheating right around our 15th wedding anniversary. I’ve still not divorced his sorry ass, but Dday was in late September/early October, and I started taking stock of my situation. I needed another job to survive on one income. Got that in February. Needed some time to get my finances in order. Doing that. Will set aside some liquid capital for attorney fees/rent/down payment.
But I digress.
As has been said, that list of tips is great for a mistress who wants to keep her lover at her beck and call. For those of us who have to deal with the demands of our children, our households, etc.–not a lot of help there. Also, for once I’d like for my spouse to be attentive to my needs instead of feeling as if he’s entitled to have his needs met at all times.
That’s the crux of it, isn’t it? My ex is all about his needs, what he was needing/not getting/felt entitled to. No where in that conversation were my needs ever discussed. Fuck him and all his ilk. I am never going to be in that sort of thing ever again. I hated that this happened for so long but it’s slowly dawned on me that this is the best thing that could have happened to me. He’s a middle aged selfish baby simpering over a young girl. I’m a middle aged smart lady building a new career and meeting loads of very cool and interesting people. I win. 🙂
Oh my god, and I’m an atheist! Did you see her “13 steps”? apparently it’s all about not feeling bad about yourself, you know, you need to look out for you! she forgot the one about making amends…
100% agree that there is no sisterhood there, any lies a married man is telling you after you know he’s married? You signed up for that, you already know he’s a liar and a cheat. You are reaping what you sow, you are not a member of the sisterhood, you are actively hurting other women and justifying it for your own selfish reasons. Fuck you & your excuses, that married guy? He’s not your knight in shining armor dicked over by his wife, he’s just a dick with a basket of excuses.
Oh, oh -the D word.
CL said: ‘Having spent most of her adult life as a mistress she missed out on those other things adults do, like obtain professional rank, marry, have children. She instead fashions herself as the World’s first and only Infidelity Analyst’
Wouldn’t her parents be proud.
CL said: “Where was the OW’s sisterhood when she was screwing your husband?”
That’s exactly what I thought! She is a *traitor* to the sisterhood.
Her “steps for wives” brought back bad memories for me. I made sure to ramp up all of these efforts with my STBXH in the days following dday, in the pick-me-dance. Now, thinking back on it, I feel nauseous. None of these things helped, anyhow. I was already doing them before he cheated – I was attractive and fed him constant kibbles, which only made my Narc-husband worse.
I agree with other commenters who said that she knows nothing about real marriage. I can bop around the house in a Victoria’s Secret nightie most days, but when my kids have the flu and I’m cleaning up vomit until 3am? Nope. Or when the air conditioner breaks down and we have a huge bill to fix it? I guess that’s too heavy to bring up, so I’ll just ignore it. Because that wouldn’t be good kibbles. Sometimes real life does creep in. I’m a wife but I’m supposed to pretend to be a girlfriend? That doesn’t accomplish true emotional intimacy.
Apparently, she admits she has fallen deeply in love with a few of her men, particular one man. He didn’t leave his wife. I kind of get the feeling that deep down she is still jealous of that and wishes wives would “let their husbands go” so that the mistresses can be married, too. Like maybe she got robbed of her true love because of these betrayed wives wouldn’t let go in the tug of war. Little does she know that most cheaters don’t marry the AP even if they do leave their wives, and the ones who do marry the AP, the marriages usually tank, and quickly.
Ms. Symonds is concerned about the Universal Sisterhood the way Tokyo Rose was concerned about the boys in U.S. Pacific Fleet.
How could the same nation that produced her also produce Winston Churchill? Which reminds me of what WC had to say about another woman not unlike Ms. Symonds:
Churchill: Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?
Woman: My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course…
Churchill: Would you sleep with me for five pounds?
Woman: Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!
Churchill: Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.
CL, glad you caught that “sisterhood” thing. It’s like you’re in my head :). This woman is a born-mistress. So blameless and infatuated with the drama of it all. I believe that comment about telling the wife and getting a “clinical” response showed not just her judgmental side, but her need for drama. She must’ve rehearsed the whole scene and imagined the reaction of the wife would have been satisfying to her in some way. What she got was anticlimactic and she now has a grudge against the poor BS.
Did anyone notice the way she kept speaking out of turn to call the attention back to herself?
CL, you handled yourself well and made better points than anyone on that panel, especially the actor who kept referring to every aspect of the show as “fun”. Yup, it’s all fun and games until someone accidentally boinks their coworker.
The kind of women who will happily sleep with your husband does not value herself. This is the conclusion I have come to. She is incomplete and insecure which is why she is prepared to accept leftovers and doggie bags. No woman who values herself would gladly be the other woman. More to be pitied than scorned really, though it would not be prudent to waste pity on any of them. It has taken a long time for me to realise this. That information Symonds dishes out comes from the soul of a sad woman clearly lacking self-esteem.
SISTERHOOD, HUH?
This is the only email that I ever sent the OW. At the time I thought the affair had been going on for 1 week. Now I think it may have been longer. Funny, I had “sisterhood” on the brain, too. Now this bitch lives with my x and spends time with my kids who are now 7, 4 and 3.
This is xxxx’s wife. So much for female solidarity. We have
a 4 year old, a 2 year old and a 10 month old. I would appreciate it if
you quit having an affair with my husband. I will tell your
husband if you don’t stop now. This NEEDS TO STOP NOW.
She wrote back…
“SO SORRY. Consider it stopped.”
My guess is that they are going to get married this year. I think that I will wrap a wedding present in all of the wonderful emails of their disgusting behavior. Also the horrible, abusive emails that he sent me. I think that it would convey the proper sentiment for the occasion.
That response reads like she was playing her music too loud and woke your baby up from a nap. So sorry? Well, that makes it all better then. And gee, thanks for stopping it! You’re a real peach!
My STBX is marrying his OW as well. I have to laugh that a fellow SAHM, which I was for several years, was happy to screw my STBX. No sisterhood there.
Seriously. Maybe there is some confusion about the defninition of “sisterhood”!
Is she kidding? She described a Stepford wife. That is such unrealistic bullshit.
Amazing how the OW/OM can rationalize away everything they do. They take the very best of our marriages, i.e. the warmth, affection, attention, good sex, dinners out, connection, conversation….and leave us with the bills, dishes, trash, kids, laundry, etc. They have to be bothered with none of the mundane things of life as related to the affair. They can show up dressed to kill, full of flattery, fun and liveliness, knowing they will only have to come up with it when there is a plan to get together. They may even do things with your husband they wouldn’t dream of doing in their own committed relationship! Makes it pretty hard to compete with! And they know there is a competition, we don’t. Thanks to our husbands. Some of these women get a kick out of screwing married guys as a “notch.” Some of the them are just like men.
Ouch! I was with you 100% right up until the last sentence. 😉
Yeah, all men are DICKS.
…but, at least they do no kill their children or abuse the elderly as frequently as women.
I hear you Arnold.
I’ve always hated the C-word too but I’ve come to realize that my own tirades are peppered with “dick”, “prick”, “cock”, etc. Do our vaginas have some sacred status? What makes it acceptable to defend the vagina’s honour so vigourously while disparaging the penis at the same time? ; ) Shouldn’t we walk the walk if we’re going to talk the talk? If the C-word is banned, I think the D and P words should be banned as well…
Agreed, CH. Although I appreciate the freedom to vent my anger, I don’t want the guys to be alienated by a double standard. The men are outnumbered here, but the perspective they contribute means a lot to me. It helps to know that there are men out there who value and practice fidelity. I won’t use those words any more.
I don’t want to go off on a feminist rant here on CL’s site, I feel I have to respond; For the “C” word, there is simply no equivalent insult to a man, it’s misogynist, derogatory and sexist and dehumanizing to women. The words you quote do not carry the same weight, their connotations are not in any way the same. Many women in the US have a visceral reaction to the C word because it’s been used to denigrate them in their own lives so often. I’m not the best person to explain, maybe this site will shed more light;
http://ilykadamen.blogspot.com/2007/03/c-word.html
I agree. I don’t know a single guy who is honestly offended by any word for his body parts. Guys casually use every word in the book for it from elementary school on. It’s just not that hurtful for guys. On the other hand I don’t think I’ve ever know a woman who didn’t wince at the “c” word (even some with otherwise complete potty mouths). It’s really not the same thing.
Try calling a colleague a “prick” Hearth, and see if he is offended. It is every bit as insulting as the C word.
And, BTW, I have no problem with referring to a cheater derogatorily. So, if the C word is offensive to a cheater, that is great. And if the P word offends a cheating male, good.
The discussion was more about the word. You can offend someone by calling them a Charlie Brown. The point is if I leaned over to you and “Watch out for that guy, he’s a real prick” you wouldn’t be hurt by my use of the word. You would say “Oh yeah? What’s his deal?” In my experience, that’s just not the case with women and the c word.
Well, than we have different experiences, Hearth. I know many women who would have no problem if i referred to an asshole woman as the C word.
we must travel in different circles becasue none of my friends would think a cheating man was a ‘player” or a virile specimen. We would all think less of him.
The problem I have is that there are words to denegrate a woman with no sexual morals (slut, whore), but they are not so fitting for a man. That’s what I mean when I use “dickwad” and the like – a man who is led around by his dick.
Arnold, are you honestly offended? Or just yanking our chains?
Exactly right. This language thing is probably worthy of its own article. A guy with loose sexual morals is called player or other words that imply virility, success, or manliness. That particular double-standard is so ironic to me because I share so much in common with the women of this site. In half of what I read here, change he to she and it’s my story.
Of course there are such words. Philanderer, manwhore, pimp. etc.
I am just trying to understand why using a woman’s body part as a slur is less acceptable than doing the same for a man. it makes no sense.
I think it is clearly a double standard. So, yeah, it offends me.
Does the C word, as applied to a cheating, mean, unempathetic woman really offend you?
You have every bit as much in common, Hearth, with a lot og=f the guys here, as well.
I hate this stereotyping thing. Sensitive , caring men are every bit as common as women with the same qualities.
Many of my friends were what would be stereotyped as “jocks’/ We all played sports at a high level, some of us, professionally.
When we get together we are not discussing boxscores, carbaratoers,(sp?) or the latest James Bond movies.
We talk about our feelings, our relationships, our kids, our ups and downs.
This whole stereotyping is rife in the infidelity sites where it is claimed that women cheat for different reasons than men. There is this weird undercurrent which seems to imply that most women cheat for emotional reasons vs just wanting sex. And, the re is some implication that, while not a justification, that reason is a little more valid than someone just wanting to get laid.
Well, IMO, the fact is that women crave sex as much or more than men and wanting strange dick(there’s that word again) is the main motivation for their cheating.
Every guy I know that is the victim of cheating is more of the “beta” type guy, the nice, sensitive type. And, their wives cheated with a guy who is a “bad boy” , an ‘alpha” who does not give a shit about connecting emotionally.
YOu said what I was about to say. It’s kind of like there’s no real equivalent of ‘bitch’ when referring to men.
I’ve seen mean ass men referred to as “bastards”. Does that qualify?
Look we have betrayed males here , too. Are folks really trying to make out as if life is tougher for women or that the roles men are thrust into by our society are more enjoyable? I lost a lot of buddies in Vietnam that had the “privelige” of getting thrust into that mess.
Time to stop the double standards. Decent men do not applaud cheating by “players” and there are plenty of the “you go girl” types cheering for cheating women.
Bottom line, IMO, decent people of either gender do not approve of this. Indecent immoral folks of either gender do applaud it.
Arnold, I agree with you that good people of either gender don’t condone cheating. And I am firmly of the belief — and express it here and on HuffPo and anywhere else (blog conferences in NYC for example) that women cheat too. It isn’t a “chick” problem.
I do NOT want this site to get into a pissing match of Who Has It Worse. On infidelity — yes, it sucks, whatever your gender. But I will NOT deny that women are discriminated against or say that gender inequality is not real. Words like CUNT are a bazillion times more offensive and have much more weight in our culture as vulgarity than DICK or PENIS.
I don’t want to have an argument about it. You want to have some smack down on what’s discrimination, I’ll call in my husband the civil rights attorney and let him explain to you exactly how far he gets with cases where men claim sexual harassment and gender discrimination.
I am pro-potty mouth. Say FUCK all you want. Piss, whore, asshole, motherfucker. I asked that the members of this site refrain from ONE word — CUNT. That’s not a lot to ask. I provide this blog using my own time and money. I welcome MEN and WOMEN and transgender people and anyone who wants a place in this community. I don’t like gender generalizations — like all men suck, or all women suck. And if I read it, I’ll call people on it. But the fact is, I have ENOUGH on my plate, with running this blog, writing articles, and conducting my own life, than to engage in the time suck of moderating each post where someone says “dick.” Or even “men suck” or “women suck.” This community has grown, and I don’t have time to read every comment. I try, but I get 3,000 hits on this site a day and 100-200 emails a day.
And finally — my blog, my rules. You don’t like it? Seriously, start up your own site for cheated on men where you can say what you want and YOU can moderate what’s fair and what’s not. Don’t make more work for me. THANK YOU.
I’ve already beaten my record duration on a site without being banned. I’ll stick to the infidelity issues and forget about the double standard debate.
Thank you.
My husband the discrimination lawyer replies. I’m giving him the last word:
Juries are skeptical of people who possess historically preferred characteristics claiming to be victims of discrimination based on those characteristics. For example, whites claiming to be discriminated against for being white, straights being discriminated against for being straight, men being discriminated against for being men, etc. Can it happen? Sure. Is it rare and far less common than the reverse? Absolutely. And it always harder to convince a jury of a story that’s unlikely (If cookies are missing from the cookie jar, it’s far more likely that your 8-year-old ate them than that a robber broke into the house and stole them). If it’s discrimination, it’s discrimination based on common sense and shared experience, not gender. You would need *evidence* to overcome the jury’s accumulated experience of what usually happens.
If you doubt that, consider how you’d react to a claim by a man that he’d been raped by a woman. I doubt you’d react to it the same way you’d react to a woman’s claim that she was raped by a man. And if you saw them as equally likely, I’d question your mental fitness for jury duty.
And as for “dick” and “cad” being comparable to “c*ut” and “bitch,” I call BS with a bullhorn. It’s nearly as disingenuous as people who claim “honkey” is as racially offensive as “n*gger.” Such claims show either a shocking ignorance of history or a dangerous infatuation with cleverness. Either way, it’ll get you shot down in court and beat up on the street corner. Why? Does anyone who has lived in a diverse society or cracked the spine of three books *really* need an explanation of that? Because I can explain it for you, but I can’t understand it for you.
I have heard men referred to as “dogs”. Pretty much the same thing as “bitch”.
“Bastard” is pretty much reserved for men.
Cur, Cad, Pimp, Slimeball,lecher etc. The Cad, Slimeball,lech,Pimp, manwhore are often used only in reference to to only males and , often , have a sexual promiscuity component. Clearly , they are not meant as complimens, in most cases.
So, yes, there are male equivalents to slut, whore, bitch etc.
What is surprising is that these were overlooked when the allegations re no male equivalents were made. These are not obscure, but were not considered.
Sometimes, we just accept stuff without really thinking about it b=very hard. Clearly, the assertion that there are no male equivalents was done off the cuff, without really considering things.
I read the article, DAt, and disagree. The author states that if you disagree with her or his conclusions, you are a liar. So, the author starts right off with the ad hominem tactic. That is, usually, a big red flag that the person will not tolerate dissension and has a closed mind, IMO.
I know many women who use the c word. Sorry, I just do.
On a slight tangent, but still vagina centric lol….
….I call my ex “BW” which is short for “Bikini Wax”
Because, exactly like a bikini wax, our marriage was brief, incredibly painful, and thoroughly humiliating 🙂
HearthBuilder, thank you for your post, you are one of us chumps for sure . It’s quite true, our misogynist culture impacts men badly too, we are all human beings no matter our gender. But if a man is comfortable with being simply human, expressing feelings that are not “manly”, he may be labeled too sensitive or not a real man. This is from the same place using feminine slurs to put down men comes from, women are “less than” in our society despite great strides. so the most derogatory slurs against women are also used against men to make them feel “less than”.
Having 2 daughters I probably lost my man card watching Hello Kitty or playing My Little Pony anyway. In fact my wife accused me just the other day of spending too much time with them. It’s funny how differently we see things. I can’t imagine anything sexier or more endearing than watching her be a good mom. Oh well I guess I know what you mean by “less than.”
Misogynist culture? Check out all the misandry out there and hypergamy.
What about masculine word used to put down women- butch, drill sargeant, etc.?
… and hopefully both are followed up with a sunny beach and a drink with a tiny umbrella. Thanks for the belly laugh.
This comment was in reference to FG’s bikini wax post. It got pushed down so now it looks out of place.
They got all the good stuff while we kept everything together at home.
Which is a big reason why it felt good to invite him to leave. Why should I wash his socks and keep track of his bills and buy his mother’s gifts (she threw me under the bus, anyway)? I’m sure he misses the family dinners and the things we did in private. (Not private any more–he broke that trust.)
Should have thought about all that when he was booking the meetups with her when I was at work or taking care of our children.
I’m just sure that real life with her is everything they dreamed it would be. 😛
Yep. I KNOW the ex misses my cooking. Young OW is big on tacos. I’m not saying I’m a gourmet cook but I love to cook and am damn good at it. People have paid me to cook for them. 🙂 weirdly, since I kicked him out I don’t cook the same as I used to. I’m more casual since it’s just me and the kids. And then I figured out that my cooking up a storm was just one more way I catered to his sorry ass. And another thing: I do SO MUCH LESS LAUNDRY! It’s awesome!
My batshit crazy other woman, gave me advice on what type of marriage counseling I should get, and told me she was my marriages biggest advocate? WHAT???? as I said, batshit crazy. … She also asked me not to kick my husband out because he would become a complete drunk. I responded, yes, he will, and its not my problem anymore. End of that conversation!!! Love the advice.. I feel like she is my own little dear Abby!
My solidarity is with my kids, not with someone who hurt my kids for their own gain (like the OW).
I was going to write this comment over dinner but I took one look Sara’s list and almost lost my appetite. Thus, I’m back! There are no words to describe how petty, juvenile and downright embarrassing her list is! This is a grown woman?!
Sounds more like a 12-year-old girl’s adolescent fantasy of what a marriage is, as opposed to a middle-aged woman who’s actually been in the matrimonial trenches in her life.
Although her deplorable “advice” isn’t worthy of any type of comment, I shall Deconstruct the Highlights:
1. Be the woman he married – He married you for a reason, he loves you, so be sure you don’t change into a different woman as soon as you’ve eaten the wedding cake!
—Excuse me for breathing, but considering HE’S the one who fucking cheated, I was kinda hoping, oh I don’t know, that that burden would rest on HIS shoulders?! I kinda got with my ex with the expectation that he’d be faithful and all. He’s the one who changed into a different person; not me!
2. Keep your appearance in check – Don’t pile on the weight after you get ‘comfortable’ with him, nor let your dress sense go. Looking good will help YOU feel better, as well as making sure your husband only has eyes for you.
— When my ex and I started dating, I was 5’10”, 175 lbs, with brown hair and blue eyes. Except for several tattoos, I still looked exactly the same when he started cheating.
This plays into the stereotype that only fat, frumpy wives in stretch pants get cheated on (as CL discussed in an earlier blog about David Petraeus’ poor wife). “No way he’d stray if you still had that college body, honey!” Yeah, no. Cheaters cheat because: Cheaters Cheat. Not because: “My Wife Eats!!”
5. Be Intimate with your husband everyday – Preferably sex YES! But even if you don’t always feel like it, there are other things you can do. If you’re not sleeping with your husband, I guarantee someone else is! Even a hug and a kiss will be welcomed if you can’t go the whole way, but some form of intimacy is essential.
—Stereotype, stereotype and more stereotype. Does she really think ALL men really want sex EVERYDAY? We’re not sex machines. Our sex drives DO decrease with age as well. And like women, sometimes WE’RE not in the mood either.
And I greatly resent the notion that marital sex is some sort of engine that the dutiful wife needs to keep running lest some other woman hop in the car and slam on the gas. REALLY?! What an unbelievably gross over-simplification of a married couple’s sex life!
Plus, the fact that she links sex and a hug/kiss hello and goodbye shows you how little value: a) She places on herself; b) She places on sex. “Oh, it’s as simple and a hug and a kiss.” There’s a fine line between sex and love-making, Sarah. Something tells me you don’t have much experience with the latter.
6. Put more friendship in your romance – Lighten up on the romantic side of your marriage. See your man as your best friend as well as your lover. That way you can really be yourself and be relaxed around him, just as you are with good friends.
—Word salad, not to mention the fact that countless wives do NOT see their spouse as their best friend. There’s their husband, and then there’s Cathy whom they’ve known since Kindergarten. I see NOTHING wrong with that.
And that whole “be yourself” crap shows you what Sarah really thinks of most wives, as if they’re mere actresses playing the part of Donna Reed. Those poor misguided, frumpy wives! If only they took off their pearl necklaces, eased up on the whole “Supper’s ready, dear!” crap and let loose, their poor husbands wouldn’t be bored to death and driven to cheat with you, Sarah….you wild-child, you! #VOMIT
7. Stroke his ego, and other parts – Men want to feel like men. They want to feel needed and wanted. Tell him how much you appreciate him, especially when he does something nice. Let him know you respect him as a man. And touch him. Be tactile with him.
—Did she really just advise wives to give their husbands regular handjobs in order to keep them from cheating? Considering this is a list entitled: “Teaching Wives To Act More Like Mistresses”, I’m not the least bit surprised.
Actually, it doesn’t sound like she places much value in most men; we’re not dogs who needed to be rewarded with treats, Sarah. That’s creepy and condescending. But hey, if you think all it takes to keep a hubby from cheating is a stroke on the neck and a “Who’s a GOOD BOY?!!”….and I’m guessing some regular “hand relief”….have at it! I hope it works out for you.
9. Ambiance – Create an environment he will enjoy when he comes home. Focus on soft lighting, scented candles and gentle music playing. Maybe run a hot bath, or jump in a steamy shower with him. Have his favourite drink ready, or enjoy a glass of wine together. Hide the kid’s toys, and any other clutter.
—Oops, Sarah! You forgot: “Tie your hair off into pig-tails, dress up in a Catholic school uniform and suck on a lollipop. Show him you’ve been a bad, bad girl.” Because God Forbid he walks in the door and there’s toys on the floor and you’re in your dreaded sweats eating ice cream out of the carton and watching Army Wives! Nothing spells “True Love” in a marriage more than a wife pretending to be a high-price call-girl.
10. Time Management – Never make the ‘kids your life.’ All you will do is alienate your husband. Try to manage your time wisely so that when your husband comes home you have time for him. Couples that don’t eat together, or spend the evenings together, generally grow apart. Don’t allow your husband to become distant or lonely, or a space will be created for another woman to walk into his life.
—How about if he allows himself to become distant? Once again, Sarah puts the burden on the wife to deal with those pesky kids AND serve hubby’s every imaginable need; if hubby cheats, well then it looks like poor wifey wasn’t managing her time properly! Tsk! Tsk!
That little nugget was probably the biggest middle finger Sara could give betrayed spouses. That’s saying a lot, considering this list. She seems to shrug her shoulders and say: “Gee! He wasn’t GOING to cheat with me. But you were just so wrapped in your kids. SOMEBODY had to take care of his poor needs!”
12. Keep your own identity – NEVER be a doormat for your husband. Be a strong woman, and let him know that if he ever mistreats you, or cheats on you, you will not put up with it. Teach him to make sure he respects you, and that he will lose you if he strays. Also, have your own life and interests, so that you are not just ‘a wife.’ Otherwise you will have nothing to ever tell him or surprise him with. You should be willing to work for a relationship, but never suffer for it.
—Clever reversal, considering she spent the entire list counseling women on how to act like dutiful SuperWhores, looking and talking sexy 24/7, putting their needs, their children’s needs, everybody else’s needs on hold to focus on the Husband who may or may not stray if he doesn’t get enough attention.
I’m sorry but Sara’s idea of an ideal relationship/marriage is so unbelievably trashy and self-destructive that I’m starting to wonder if she wrote this list with tongue planted either firmly in-cheek or somebody’s husband’s cheek.
The idea that a woman needs to be constantly On Guard. The idea that men are little sex-monsters whose erotic needs and exotic senses to be engaged at all times lest he get bored and go bang someone else. I have no idea who this woman is but I’d LOVE to know if SHE’S ever been married and thus been able to put these ridiculous suggestions into practice.
It’s so easy to judge What Went Wrong and Blame The Wife when you’re the Side Piece, Sara. It’s so easy when you’re on the Outside Looking In. Sounds like you’ve spent your entire adult life helping to destroy relationships instead of actually building your own.
Also sounds like you’ve deluded yourself into thinking that you have ANYTHING substantial to say about marriage since you’ve gotten so cozy with so many married men.
But do tell: How many of those men stuck around with you after you helped drive their marriages into the ditch? A better question would be: How many of those men turned around and fucked you over for another whore just as they fucked over their wives for you?
Have you yet figured out that you were only in their lives for their own selfish needs? Who the fuck gave you the right to intellectualize their failed marriages as well as your own trashy decision-making? More importantly, who told you it was a good idea to turn around and write this list? Hey it’s a free country and all, but if you really think Wife As Supermodel/Pornstar/Victoria’s Secret Model/Playboy Bunny/Penthouse Pet/Stripper is going to keep hubby’s “other parts” (as you call them) in his pants, then you know less about men than you already don’t.
How ironic that Sarah spends an entire list basically telling women to “learn their place”, when she’s a life-long Mistress trying to play Marriage Counselor. Who really needs to learn their place here, darlin’?
Bravo!! Chris!!
AWESOME smack down Chris! Standing ovation!!!
Yeah, that was excellent Chris.
The lifestyle this womna describes as being attractive to men would be a living hell for me. I would vomit if my wife started doing that stuff. I would think she was nuts.
This was absolutely amazing, and I must say has really opened my eyes.
I will admit some pathetic little part of me believes that trashy whore’s litany of rules – even if I know intellectually there are plenty of men who are above that sort of adolescent nonsense. And as such, I have sort of emotionally retreated from the world of dating/relationships, because I will never, ever be that sort of person she describes (even if I tried, I would just explode or die laughing at myself), and feel that I can only ultimately fail.
I just never was with any of you good guys (as intimate partners) so I just have no faith that there are real guys out there that see past that surface stuff and want a true partner. Not that all were cheaters, but all made me feel that I was a lower priority, and I had to somehow compete for their attention either with other women, jobs, friends, family…etc.
And no, I am not a frumpy, stupid girl. Completely the opposite.
Thank you Chris. You good guys are just not heard from enough.
Yes, bravo, Chris. She is listing ways to get a man’s attention in the *short term*. A girlfriend. A mistress, a fling, an affair. Some attention. Not how to have an actual relationship with emotional intimacy.
And by the way, it’s a lot easier to have “soft lighting, scented candles, soft music playing” and a bubbly-hot-bath awating your husband after work *before* you have kids. After kids this is just not going to happen in everyday life. You need a partner in life, someone who can parent with you, not act like a girlfriend who is still trying desperately to prove herself.
Well done, Chris! Thanks for your insight!
And you, DLU–this: “She is listing ways to get a man’s attention in the *short term*.”
Really–if (s)he’s the type who is going to cheat, the type who does not value his or her partner and family, well…? It’s just not that hard to break up a marriage. It’s not that hard to lure a cheater. As evidence, look what they leave us for. I mean, some of these APs are just shocking choices. In my case, she’s an alcoholic (HIS admission) and doesn’t contribute much financially (this was always important to him, and he was very stingy). And the APs are always home wreckers. My xH admitted that she was self-centered and manipulative. He described how she bragged that she’d easily manipulated elderly clients of hers (during the brief times she did hold a job.)
Breaking up a home is not rocket science. The really hard part is that it requires one to drop all pretenses of decency and morality, and any sense of shame, any empathy for faithful spouses and, a lot of times, children (for God’s sake!!) That is something I am proud to say that none of us here can do. THAT is what differentiates us from sleazy APs. It is a distinction we wear well.
Well Said, I Thank you. I didn’t even read the “tips” but I too feel at fault sometimes, ecspecially as time goes by and the horror part of it fades..
Oh no Toni! I like the fading horror bit but don’t let the self-blame creep back in. That’s one of the worst parts. I’ve been assuming it would fade over time too. Of course we all wish we had done some things differently; but I think there’s a big difference between contributing to marital problems and making the decision to cheat. In fact, I’m betting my life on it.
Then I’ll bet right along with you! thanks 🙂
Agreed. Show me a ‘perfect’ marriage and I’ll show you at least one person burying a lot of crap. Marriage isn’t perfect any more than any relationship is perfect. It has its ups and downs because life has its ups and downs. I just assumed that my ex saw marriage like I did: working through issues, making an effort when things got tough (either from outside or inside the marriage) and that we were both in it for the long haul. Turns out he was there for the good times and when things weren’t great (and even when they were, by an admission he made shortly after dday) he went and found some happy and ‘fun’ times with other women…while I was home with the kids and happily proud of my hard working husband. I don’t blame myself. I know I wasn’t perfect and neither was he, but then I don’t expect perfection in another person or even in a relationship. That’s unrealistic.
Chris! You are amazing! But I’m sad to report that I believe my ex would agree with most of that list, if not all.
/applause
Yes. Her list made me want to laugh and to hurl. One one level, all those “tips” really do make a lot of sense. They can be distilled down to one thing and one thing only: let your spouse know that you love them. That’s so cliched, but successful couples let each other know that each loves the other.
But her advice is so one-sided. You, Ms. FrumpyWife! Submit completely and utterly to your husband’s needs, wants, desires. Jump when he says jump. Don’t have an opinion. Don’t grow as a person. Remain an object in your husband’s bedroom. Then and only then will he not cheat. Otherwise, he’s entitled to cheat because it’s YOUR FAULT!
Hurl.
Thanks, Chris, for a wonderful deconstruction of her advice. 🙂
It would probably tickle you pink to know that no, she’s never had her own husband.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this, Chris.
And here is what I have to say about her oh-so-helpful advice to use married women.
Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!! (And a spit-take.)
“US” married women, rather.
The more I know about this Sarah S., the more it becomes obvious that she is completely *proud* of her years of homewrecking.
I looked at her website – she is bragging about it! She shows herself off in a full-body shot, in the wordiest “about” page I have seen in a long time. Her words are saying that she is “clean” and she advises other mistresses to leave their men, but reading between the lines, it seems like she genuinely liked that lifestyle and continues to flaunt it. All of the bravado with which she tells of the married men she seduced, or who weren’t able to resist her (barf)……it’s all bragging! There’s no sisterhood, no remorse, no conscience, just her wanting to scrounge up some respect and some money, and maybe sucker a few people into buying her self-centered bullsh**.
Kind of reminds me of a “reformed” sex-addict I saw speak once……he proclaimed he was “clean” and remorseful, yet spent most of his time in speaking engagements bragging (with a huge smile on his face) about all the 2,000+ women he slept with, complete with hookup descriptions and details.
Seriously?!! Still bragging. I”m not buying the “turnaround”. The emporer has no clothes.
How about….
12 Points of Pride for Mistresses and Affair Partners:
1.) I am signing up for a relationship with an established liar! Yeah!
2.) I am signing up for ‘sloppy seconds’ cause, given Point #1, his marriage probably isn’t all that sexless as he claims! Yum!
3.) I am happy to be someone’s option…rather than their priority! Yeah!
4.) I like waiting on the periphery of ‘my man’s’ life until he can make time in his schedule to see me at HIS convenience. Sometimes I need to see him or talk to him about something, but I don’t mind waiting by the phone…and waiting…and waiting.
5.) When he leaves, I am happy to watch him walk out the door…closing it behind him…to go home to his wife and family…while I climb into my cold, empty bed and lay there alone…as I do every night.
6.) I like laying awake, alone, in my bed every night…thinking of ‘my man’ and his wife in their bed together…wondering if ‘my man’ is spooning, giggling, snuggling, and/or making love to his wife that very moment. Fun!
7.) I feel so special when ‘my man’ and I cannot go out anywhere because we cannot be seen together; and so enjoyable are those rare times we drive 50 miles to a distant town so we can go out to a restaurant together; him always looking over his shoulder; watching his time/looking at his watch; moving the date along as to not get home to his family too late. So relaxing and enjoyable!
8.) I like never having a ‘date’ for my family events while everyone else is enjoying it with their boyfriends and spouses. I cannot bring ‘my man’ as he is busy living full life with his family.
9.) I get to spend all holidays apart from ‘my man’ while he spends them, as well as attends events, parties, concerts, vacations, etc, etc, etc with his wife.
10.) I will happily primp and prep myself for when he is ready to visit…to call on me…for that 1 hour of time he can work me in.
11.) I can never tell my family or friends about ‘my man’. They can never know that I am f*cking…am a side dish…for a married man with children! I will have to wait until he leaves his wife and children for me…which shouldn’t be too much longer…
12.) I am signing up for wasting years of my life waiting for ‘my man’ to leave his family for me. Yeah!
Wow! If only these 12 points could be placed on the AP websites.
Awesome. I think you should post it as a comment over at her site. 🙂 You know, to edify all the OW out there. “Mistress School.”
Don’t know if anyone already made this point, but the OW making a list of what the Chump Wife should do to “keep her man” is incredibly self-serving because it implies that his cheating ***was caused by*** the Chump’s failure to tick all the items on that list.
Grotty bint.
Iwill abide. But, I bet your husband would admit that men are equally discriminated against and harrassed.
My XW, BTW, is a complete vagina/labia.
Just looked at that symonds creature’s site. Holy crap, what a crotchface(gender neutral).
CL, doesn’t the fact that your husband has difficulty getting a good outcome on the men’s cases mean that juries etc may discriminate against men in these situations? It may not mean the cases are without merit, but just that there is a prejudice against male complainants.
CL
i would very much like to know how far your husband gets with cases where men claim sexual harassment and gender discrimination.
for as long as i can remember i have always been firmly against bias and discrimination of any kind.
i believe since times of antiquity and all over the world, it has been used by bad people to foster an “us vs them” attitude to secure(steal) and maintain resources from other groups of people who are simply different.
please email me you or your husband.anyway thankyou soo much for this website.it has helped me Tremendously to gain a clear understanding of what happened to me and why 🙂 .
At the bottom of the page, I’ve posted my husband’s thoughts on men’s claims of gender discrimination. Just scroll to the bottom. 🙂
Not too worried about getting beat up. But, yes, I do have trouble understanding why anyone would find the c word more offensive than the d or p word. It is , clearly a double standard.
This site has been providing great information and your writing is superb; I look to forward to reading it daily. I have always enjoyed the diversity of ideas and stories that have been shared. Unlike other blogs, dissenting views have been tolerated and discussed while avoiding engaging in personal attacks. As a woman who has fought for equal rights and equal treatment throughout my lifetime, I do take umbrage that Arnold is being attacked for asking for the same consideration in regards to language. Double standards cannot exist in a fair and just society. Instead of tolerance for Arnold to disagree, his comments were met with derision and dismissed as lacking in intelligence and sophistication. It is disappointing to see this happen, and I notice that Arnold has taken the high road and has not commented in kind..
I have been reading the comments posted of everyone since your blog’s inception, and really have appreciated Arnold’s incisive comments and wit. I hope he comes back.
Thanks, Still. I am not easily offended by the ad hominem stuff. It, usually, indicates to me that the person using it is without much of an argument.