The Paralysis Leaving a Cheater: Why Didn’t I Go Sooner?

She felt paralysis leaving a cheater. She knew he was cheating, yet she stayed, now she’s wondering why. What kept her stuck?
***
Dear Chump Lady,
So, here’s what I’m mulling over at the moment.
I’m on the path to divorce, having totally separated my life from my soon-to-be-ex husband. The house is sold. I’m comfortably settled into a new apartment. I’m moving forward, making peace with myself, working on getting a life. Still up and down emotionally, but the momentum is forward-moving, so that’s good.
Often, reading your site, people mention being fooled by their cheating partner again and again. That was me, to a point. I was pulled back into his web many, many times.
Almost 3 years passed between D-Day and the day I left it behind for good.
But here’s the catch: I don’t really think I was fooled, in any real sense – at least after D-Day. Once I figured out that he had been sneaking around behind my back for a year, I did a LOT of digging and found a LOT of information about how deep a betrayal this really was. He told lies about me and to me repeatedly. And he had a DUI under his belt, and knew that I was petrified that he would drink and drive. So he would use that fear against me by telling me he was staying a bit longer at a friend’s house when he was really with his girlfriend.
He used my trust and love against me. The handwriting was on the wall. And I saw it all, clearly when the shit hit the fan.
What’s more – he never really broke anything off with the girlfriend for those 3 years after D-day. And I knew it. Not just in my gut: I saw the evidence. I saw the correspondence over a couple of years. The receipts for flowers and chocolates sent to her. Her thinly-veiled references to him on Twitter. The messages from her on his phone. I was not fooled by him.
I was 100% aware that it was happening, but unable to make a move.
What was it that kept me in place? I want to know if I’m the only person who experienced this weird paralysis. I did eventually get out of it, and that feels great – but I feel like I haven’t fully processed the major denial that kept me in that painful existence for an extended period of time.
So I guess my question is: How can you explain the irrational behavior of chumps who see exactly what is happening but keep working to maintain the status-quo, no matter how awful it may be?
LilyBart
***
Dear LilyBart,
It’s pretty common to feel paralysis about leaving a cheater. Put aside all the reconciliation advice to wait six months to a year before making a decision, it’s normal to avoid what you fear the most. You were afraid to lose your family. Your sunk costs. The life you had built together.
In a weird way, you were strong.
Let me give you an example. A long time ago, I had this friend who was a white South African spy (for the ANC, before apartheid ended). His name, honest to God, was Rocky. Anyway, Rocky was a spy for nine years but then he got found out, and when he got found out he was tortured.
He was very matter of fact when he talked about this. Because you see, he’d had training in military camps for the ANC. And he said they tried to prepare you for the experience. Some people have higher pain tolerances than others, and other people don’t have very high tolerances at all. But the take away from the training was — don’t worry which one you are — eventually everyone goes into “the wild blue yonder” and when you’re in shock, you pass out.
He said the worst part about being jailed wasn’t the torture. It was the solitary confinement. He was in solitary for 13 months, and that was what breaks people, he said. Being alone.
I give you this grizzly story to observe a few things about pain.
First, some people can endure a lot of punishment before it pushes them over the edge. Second, take it from a guy who was a pain professional — what everyone fears most is being alone.
You ask why were you “working to maintain the status-quo, no matter how awful it may be?” You endured a lot of pain in those three years of “status quo,” but you did it, I imagine, because you feared a greater pain — being alone.
And like someone in confinement, I think you believed you didn’t have a lot of choices except to accept the pain and numb yourself to it, lest your jailor banish you to solitary.
Perhaps you don’t like my example. Here you are a woman with agency. No one arrested you. No one forced you to tolerate that situation. I’m comparing you — a free woman — to Rocky, a man who was powerless in the face of abuse by his captors.
And that’s the crux of it, isn’t it?
You GAVE your husband your power during those years, as if he held the key to your life.
Will he drive drunk? Will he come home late? Or will he call the OW? Is he really this person I discovered he is? Is he still cheating on me? You put all your focus on what he was doing, or might do, or had done. All your drive and energy went there. For your efforts, you were rewarded with terrible pain. Yes he was betraying you and endangering you. The only energy you had left for yourself, you used to manage that pain with denial. To numb it. Vicious cycle.
Why not stop it? Because you didn’t want to step outside yourself and admit you were CHOOSING pain. The bargain goes like this — okay he’s doing those things, but he still comes home to me. I’m not alone. We’re not divorced. I can manage this. (You cannot manage it.) You go numb.
The pain was your price of admission to not have to deal with yourself.
To not ask yourself is this ACCEPTABLE to me? If not, what am I going to DO about it? Who am I without this fuckwit in my life? Can I create another life? What are my values? Am I willing to step out on them? Is alone really that scary? Because there are other people on this planet to love me. And maybe being alone isn’t as bad as this crushing pain and disrespect.
I’ve outlined before why we stay stuck with cheaters, the hope, the embarrassment of admitting to ourselves that we made a mistake of something as fundamental as choosing a life partner. But another reason get stuck is that we reject our agency. Our ability to assert ourselves.
We allow our lives to winnow down to this one contest — keeping this marriage alive, keeping our partner with us, as if our whole life depends upon it.
That’s our cage and we make it. Allowing that man to keep cheating on you was not a life, but for a time you thought it was. Being a chump isn’t the whole of you. There’s a LIFE out there and it’s not a solitary void — it’s a FULL LIFE — one that you get to create. During those three years, you were not creating a life, you were creating a FRONT.
That’s very different than creating a life. And the funny thing is, fronts are way more painful. That thing you fear — the new life — is so much less painful than covering for a man who keeps cheating on you.
LilyBart, you’re not the only one who has experienced paralysis. In fact, I think paralysis is the norm. Everyone is shocked at first, but some are energized toward self-protection sooner than others. You don’t spend three years in shock. You spent three years in denial.
Not many people field marshal themselves out of this mess immediately after D-Day.
Most of us need a bigger dose of poison before we’re cured. We need the multiple D-Days, the hopium crashes, and withdrawals before we say enough. Before we trust that they suck.
Stepping into the unknown is a matter of faith. You have to believe that better is out there, but more than that, you have to believe that you deserve better and can create better. You have to put all your energies back into yourself, which means redirecting those energies away from him.
LilyBart, you DID leave. You did find that moment where you’d had enough and you chose yourself over him. Please keep your eyes on the prize — a new life. Forgive yourself for those three wasted years. You needed that time to summon up the courage in yourself, and now that you’ve found that, don’t look back. This new LilyBart is the real you. The paralyzed LilyBart was a girl in a cage. You set her free. That’s the important thing. You set her free.
The reason chumps stay paralyzed is simple: FEAR. CL is right. It is fear that keeps us bound in place, spackling and smoking hopium like mad while inside our guts are screaming to get out. Some people might call that fear “I’m doing it for the children,” and some might call it, “I’m stuck because of finances,” but the bottom line is fear. And the fear of being alone is the real, true reason in at least 90% of chump cases.
I spackled and stayed for 20 years, while my gut screamed. I knew my ex was a cheater (though I had absolutely no idea how MUCH of a cheater he was), I knew he didn’t really love me, I knew I was WAY down his list of priorities, I knew he cared more about getting attention from others than he did about me. But I really, truly thought I was better off with all that than the alternative: being alone. I was certain that if I left, I would die alone. That I would never leave the house. I would just sit there alone inside, slowly withering away and dying. And the thought of that imagined dying was apparently worse than the reality of the living death of being married to a freak.
But eventually, I divorced him. Hardest thing I ever did, probably the hardest thing I ever will have done in my life. I thought I might die. But here I am, and it’s coming up two years since the divorce was final.
Not only am I alive, not only did I survive, but I’m living in a really cute apartment that I love. My son is with me, and he is doing great. I am dating a really nice guy who seems to genuinely LIKE me. I started a new career as a freelance writer, and it’s going well. I’m writing for some big clients now, slowly building up my finances. I see my friends as much as I can. I just signed up for a class at the community college. I walk a lot with my dog every day. I’ve tried all sorts of new activities I never thought I would do: skeet shooting, pool, a city scavenger hunt, online dating.
CL is right. You just have to step out there, and trust that things will work out and get better. Right across from me on my living room wall is a sign with a quote from Martin Luther King Jr. “Faith is taking the first step, even when you don’t see the whole staircase.” Ironically, my ex bought me that sign. But the words are true, and they are what every paralyzed chump needs to take to heart: no matter how scared you are, you just have to take that step. Don’t worry about what comes next, just take that leap. Once you do that, you’ll see the next move, and then the next. Do it, and you will get to the other side of hell, I promise you. If I could do it, anyone can.
GladIt’sOver – thank you.. u just put into words every fear that chumps go through and more importantly, u have also shown us that there is life after D-day.. and a glorious life at that! .. reading this has bolstered my faith.. that all of this is worth it for the peace of mind and self respect that come with “moving on and getting over” a sick disordered person to whom I had given control of my life … thank you!
Here’s what I thought about myself at the end of my marriage: I am damaged. No one will ever want me again. I’ve been chewed up and spit out. I might as well join a convent. Everything I believed about love and life has been proven untrue. I don’t know who I am anymore.
Here’s what I think about myself now: I am strong. I am full of life. I am wanted and loved. I have control over how I live my life. There are a lot of wonderful people to meet in this world. I am learning who I am. I have love to give.
Letting go of my marriage meant facing all those things I thought about myself and dealing with them, and it was terrifying. But look at where I am now, compared to where I was then.
Great response CL! We all get there in our own time. I think the effort to make such a big change contributes to the inertia as well. I know it did for me. You have to unravel years of intertwined lives & the thought can be overwhelming. I remember apologizing to STBX shortly after DDay, partly because I’m an enormous chump but also partly because it meant drastic change. No more just going along in denial about how unhappy my marriage had become, now I had to face it. It took awhile to get through the process & I’m not quite on the other side. I look at it like this, it’s fine until it’s not, start there & keep going forward. Just like you’re doing. Oh & be gentle with yourself LilyBart, you’ve been through enough.
It’s simply HARD to leave the life you know and the relationship you thought you had. But eventually we get there.
One of the best posts ever. This describes it so well – “Okay he’s doing those things, but he still comes home to me. I’m not alone. We’re not divorced. I can manage this. (You cannot manage it.) You go NUMB!
I lived in numb for a while. Until I couldn’t take it anymore.
I didn’t fix my picker tho and selected another EUM/cheater. While I am almost three months no contact, I’m struggling with “You have to believe that better is out there, but more than that, you have to believe that you deserve better and can create better. You have to put all your energies back into yourself”.
So I stumble along.
My hope is that my kids don’t copy my relationship behavior.
Lilybart, I experienced the same phenomenon.
For last two years I’ve felt often that I’m in a small boat in a storm, no control and having to control the boat subject to the conditions. In realky rough On a sailing boat you just take down the sails and ride out the storm. That’s how I’ve felt.
I’ve also resigned from trying to find reason. The woman I was married to is not the same woman. She has different priorities and is on a different path to me and the boys.
When it suits she detours ,comes over to our path ,says hello to the boys but rushes back soon after to the path SHE HAS CHOSEN. That’s very important. She has made chooses. No one else made them.
I think many if us here have behaved post separation in a manner we wouldn’t normally expect. Nothing prepares you for this shit. It’s one of those nasty life experiences that you have to ride out.
I think I’m different person now. I’m just processing what has to be done everyday. There isn’t 15 minutes that goes by that I don’t think about the ex and what happened amd what may happen. It’s probably all about fear. But what I do know I’m in better control of my life now and I’m in a better place emotionally etc. next year I will be in an even better place. Small steps, patience , peace, and focus will get me ( amd the boys)through this.
It’s incredible the transition I’ve made in all this.
I held my ex up as the ideal best friend,lover, mother, woman.
She has now lost my respect, my pride of her, and of course above all else TRUST.
This has only really just happened recently. It took many months, years to reach this position but that’s where I am at. It’s very sad but its a consequence of her behaviour and her attitude to me and very importantly the boys. I often think if I did what she did I’m unsure if I could still live in this community. I think I would need to move away and begin a whole new life.
CL talks of being set free. Yes I’m close. I can almost feel it. It feels great and soon I will be there.
Thanks for sharing your story.
You and I seem to be on parallel paths with our exes as far as what we accept, Baci. I know exactly how you feel. Nora Ephron once said about her divorce from Carl Berstein (I paraphrase) ‘There comes a day when you realise a whole 15 minutes has passed and you haven’t thought about it once’. And I notice that that is happening. Very slowly but it’s happening. I get caught up in things and when I finish whatever it is I realise I haven’t thought about him or the divorce for a whole stretch of many minutes! Sometimes as many as 30 or 40! Last week, during a series of meetings, I went -get ready – TWO HOURS without thinking about it.
Then, of course, once those meetings were over I thought about it again but it really does start to happen, something I never would have believed. We’ll be ok, Baci. And we’re making sure our kids are ok. 🙂
Gawd, How I would LOVE to go 24 hours!! I’m going to meditate towards that tonight!
Nord, that’s what I want to conquer as well — to stop thinking about it!!! I want to open my eyes in the morning and not have the first thought be about my ex and how he left. Sometimes I think I’m doing good and then a trigger brings everything back…
Nord and Lyn- I’m in the same boat. I have gone for brief periods (15 minutes?) without my brain cycling on it, but I’m hoping I can go longer and longer without it entering my thoughts. Triggers abound.
Nord, Lyn andDuckLU- same problem. Waking up, being in this helpless, delicate moment and he is there. And the gnawing pain. However, I’ve had a day or two when I woke up and a thought of him was not the first one on my mind. Success!!!
I’ve read that when an unwanted thought comes you can tell yourself to allow yourself a later time to think about it. Just not now.
From “Time Cure” I’ve learnt to go back to pleasant memories (I don’t go to our relationship, though) and it’s been very, very helpful. Replacing traumatic memories with happy or neutral ones.
I don’t have gnawing pain anymore. When I think of him or the situation I’m getting very good at pushing the thought away and replacing it with something else in my life. It was a process, though, mainly because when I kicked him out my life had been reduced to him, the kids and his family – and that’s about it. As I fill my life back up he becomes less and less significant and it’s much easier to push thoughts of him out of my head.
I don’t think it will ever leave totally – not for me or for my kids. It still comes up because he’s still around. It’s not a normal breakup where I would move on and not have to deal with the person. I have to deal with him regularly. Hell, he spent today sending weird texts to me, which I ignored except two that were about practical matters and the result? He told me I am mental. For no reason that I could tell other than I was ignoring him. Hard to not think about the ex when he’s always in my face. What a tosspot he is.
To all,
Nord commented that perhaps ‘it might not ever leave totally’. (I paraphrase)
‘Tis so true…..My father was cheated on by his first wife all the way back in 1944, while he was away serving in WWII. And it still haunts him. (Yes, he is still amoung the living! Triumphing over adversities has this ‘side-effect; we live longer! Just ask Muriel!) And this is after 60 years of marriage to a faithful, wonderful woman who is my mother, with whom he has 4 children he dearly loves.
He has triumphed over that, but it leaves a permanent scar. However, it also had a positive affect—–he taught all of his children (including the one he had with the cheater!) the true value of faithfulness and fidelity. Not a single one of his 5 children has ever cheated, but 3 of us have been cheated on!
Therefore, all you ‘sane’ parents, the ones that do not cheat—–forge on and teach your children the ‘better way’! Most of them WILL listen and learn the ‘better way’, even though the sadness of cheating does not ever leave totally. We live well in spite of it!
Forge on, my friends…..
REPEAT- I AM GOING TO IGNORE YOU UNTIL YOU DOUBT YOUR OWN EXISTENCE.
Nord the ex is fucking with you. Thankfully Groceries leaves us alone because she has already begun her second life. She chooses to spend minimum time with the boys and therefore she wears the consequences of that decision.
Keep on ignoring and hopefully he will phase out his messages.
It’s hard not to think about it all though. Just pity the prick and in your mind devalue him. He has no worth
Oh, I pity him, and he has begun his new life and then some. But he’s not happy, it seems, so he needs to spend time fucking with me. I ignore him and it goes in waves. It’s just bloody annoying.
I think as a chump you are first in a state of shock, and your first instinct, at least mine, was to do anything to save your marriage. I think it was easier for me to move on because my XH moved out (without leaving a forwarding address), but even as he was preparing to move, I kept on begging him to stay, as people like Mort Fertel were saying, once he moves out, the marriage is over. Some sites, like Marriage Builders (though it is pro-reconciliation), recognize that the betrayed spouse is suffering from PTSD and that doing the “pick me” dance for more than 3 weeks is dangerous to the BS’s mental and physical health. I think when you are in that state, it’s hard to think clearly and act (though I definitely applaud, and am amazed by, the people who are somehow able to have the clarity and strength to file for divorce immediately after discovering their spouse’s affair). Once you are out of the relationship, you can much more clearly see how abusive the situation was (at least that’s what happened to me).
I think another that kept me stuck for awhile was that I thought I needed to keep the marriage intact for my kids, because you hear about all these studies about how children of divorced parents don’t do as well in school, psychologically, in their future relationships, etc. But it’s hard to take those studies at face value, because, as I think CL, has mentioned, it’s probably not the divorce itself that damages the children, but the conflict and dysfunction leading up to it.
I think my “aha’ moment came when I realized that the happier I was, the happier my kids were, and that my XH’s continuing, betrayal, gaslighting, blame-shifting and angry outbursts would eventually wear me down and threaten my psychological health, which I needed to maintain for my kids (because their other parent was checked out and obviously not thinking about them at all).
I can’t remember whether it’s David or Chris who deconstructed this particular statistic a bit more carefully. It’s definitely worth a search of the blog to find out, though.
For what it’s worth, I work with young adults, and on the occasions when they’ve talked about their home lives, and if they’ve had divorced parents, one common theme is the complete relief once the arguments stopped.
My first DDay came 6 or 7 years before the 2nd, decisive one, and leading up to that first one, I was totally paralyzed! I SAW that my now ex, then husband, was getting more and more involved with a secretary from his work (how cliched!), knew that it was at least an emotional affair, thought it was probably physical as well. And I just watched, did and said nothing, until he said something I couldn’t ignore. And then I still stayed pretty much paralyzed, although at that point, buying into the Reconciliation Industrial Complex bigtime, buying into the ‘half of this is the betrayed partner’s fault’ bullshit, working like crazy to ‘save my marriage’ and my kids’ family. And letting the affair go on, for several more months.
I am a smart, well-educated, dynamic person who has NEVER been passive in my life, but that 3 months before the confrontation began and the 3 or 4 months after still scares me – what was I DOING? Or worse yet, not doing? What did I think would happen if I just stood there and watched? Did I think he’d show me who he really was? Well, I didn’t believe him when he did. Did I think the affair would go away on its own? Did I figure my ex would make the decisions, so I wouldn’t have to? Did I think he’d somehow come to his senses and see the value to those things in our life together that I valued? Was I scared? In shock? Confused? It was unreal, surreal, a freaky freaky time. And I was numb, so much numbness and pain. I think I really could not believe what was happening, how it was happening. My ex’s behaviour was completely incomprehensible to me, until I started reading about character disorders after the second affair.
We all dealt as well as we could, we didn’t have ChumpLady and Chump Nation to speak truth to us with a 2 x 4 upside the head, and we did eventually make it out. When DDay #2 came, everything was crystal clear to me, and the ex was out on his ass within a few weeks (well, except for the part where he wasn’t finding another place to live …, but the relationship was OVER.)
We do what we can with what we’ve got, and we have to cut ourselves slack. I too hope my kids don’t copy my relationship behaviour. I think they at least know there are people ‘like that’ out there, and that we have to watch what people do, not what they say.
“Did I think he’d somehow come to his senses and see the value to those things in our life together that I valued?”
This. This one is the one that kept me from moving on for far, far, far too long. The cure?
NO CONTACT. Just do it and stick to it. I can’t advise this one highly enough. If you need to take that first step out of paralysis, start with this one. The beauty is it requires you to do nothing while the payoff is ENORMOUS (at least it was for me).
Trying to reason with your cheater and “nice” them into realizing how great and understanding and forgiving etc. (blech) you actually are is a recipe for frustration, humiliation, and anger/depression.
I thought going no contact (nothing except absolutely unavoidable e-mails concerning children) would kill me….and it did for about a week. But I stuck to it and it was far and away the most important step I took to getting my life back. Far and away. I was frankly astonished at how much better I felt about myself and everything in my life after only a few weeks of strict NC.
Odds are that your cheater has no freaking intention whatsoever of being swayed by your reason or your niceness but boy oh boy do they LOOOOOOOVE that you remain interested enough to still engage them with this nonsense.
Fuck that and fuck them. If you are at the stage when you know in your bones that reconciliation is impossible, go no contact and NEVER LOOK BACK.
Wowzer Alyosha..
You just knocked my socks off with that writing. What Insight! You Go!!
Well said, Alyosha.
In fact, I would go one step further. Go no contact, tell everybody, and file.
The outcome depends on where the cheater is on the narcissistic sprectrum. (Mine got moved further and further along, until the IC flat out told me one day, he is a narcissist and he will not change for you, and he will not change for the children. And so it came to be).
And that was never in your control.
Definitely go no contact but be aware this will drive them mad. More than two years since dday and kicking him out and nearly 18 months of low contact (still have to deal with teh kids) and he spends an enormous amount of time trying to get me to engage. It’s bizarre but I stick with no emotion, no dealing with his fuckery, no reaction. Just the facts ma’am and the rest? He can piss into the wind.
I think the continuing manipulation, mindfuckery, gaslighting & other crazymaking behaviors are a BIG reason people stay stuck. They are being told that their “gut” instinct isn’t right, and they have learned to question it. Sometimes you family and your shrink side squarely with “hopium” which sure doesn’t help either. I grew up in a home with 2 alcoholic parents who also said “pay no attention to what you see, it is not really happening.” When you find out the 3 people (parents & spouse) that you have been schooled should care for you the most are screwing with your brain all the time, you learn to doubt yourself. This pain is EXCRUCIATING!” How alone are you when you don’t even have YOU??? It doesn’t get any worse than that. Then you throw in that you cared about all of these strangers so much more than they cared about you, and that you didn’t deserve it. I believe solitary confinement might even be better, because no-one is trying to convince you it is a figment of your imagination, you know it is true, you are in solitary confinement. No one is saying did you enjoy the great view, your vacation, the Ferris wheel, etc. Plus, add in the level of deception you uncover this spouse is capable of, it is not only hurtful, you are not only a chump, but here you are counting on this person with your mind body & soul like no one else, and basically, it is clear they could give a shit about you, your vows, your kids, your future, etc, etc, etc. They are a stranger!
For me, I had spent many years with this person, this stranger, and like an alcoholic, I have to face the wasted years (25+) which makes it harder to let go. When the alcoholic quits or tries to quit, it appears the hardest part is facing the wasted years, the life they could have had, the people they hurt, etc (and no I am not an alcoholic)…..this is hard to face. Or when the stock market tanks, your broker wants you to be satisfied that it is a “paper loss.” A candy coating for a bucketload of CRAP!!
For me, the mindfuckery was what kept me stuck, because it creates the fears themselves!
Thanks, what you said makes a lot of sense. I’m still with crazy man. Have a long way to go,but your thoughts help me to detangle the skein of fuckupedness. Thanks!
Regina, I really related to this part of your post:
“How alone are you when you don’t even have YOU??? It doesn’t get any worse than that.”
Me too!!! That was the saddest part of the whole ordeal, that I had faded into nothing, nonexistence. Thank goodness I woke up!!
Wow, Your advice is spot on!
Thank you again.
Man, this post brought tears to my eyes. You see, I didn’t choose to leave him even when I knew he was in love with someone else. I was so high on hopium I just couldn’t comprehend that he would destroy our family and abandon me. I actually thought that he was just confused and going through a midlife crisis. Surely, I thought, he would eventually come to his senses.
He is the one who left, who set me free, which at the time felt like a mortal blow. He shoved me out of the cage and watched me splat on the floor. I will NEVER THANK HIM for that. But I guess at some point I did decide to set myself free too. Instead of laying there and dying (which was tempting) I picked myself up and went NC. I decided to live.
Lyn,
A sucker punch to the gut that left me facedown and unable to breathe… just like you, I got left – once after he dropped the bomb of infidelity (basically to terrorize me into changing – “I can’t raise the ante any higher”) and again after a 2-month reconciliation pick-me dance. I sometimes have a hard time cutting myself slack. I see so much power in all the folks here who finally got sick of the shit and left (or forced the cheater out) and I feel a bit of shame that I didn’t leave him first. Too hopped up on hopium, I guess… A “friend” told me that my stbx gave me a wonderful gift – the gift of being free from him and to live my life for me rather than for his sorry ass. I could consider it a gift if he had done it for me, but it was his own selfish needs that caused him to leave, not generosity. The real gift is the one I made myself – I created a space for my own power that allowed me to stand up and breathe. Another gift is reading posts like yours and others – knowing that I am not alone and crazy in all my thoughts makes it much better. Cheers and hugs…
Lyn I totally get that you never want to thank that piece of poo ex of yours but maybe just maybe you would have stayed in that mess a whole lot longer if he hadn’t been the one to call it a day. I was strung along for YEARS until the pressure of it all made me snap and I screamed at him and tried to rip his head off. Apparently that one incident was enough for him to finally go around bitching about me and I was the one to blame for the end of the relationship. Can you believe it? After years of him mentally screwing me and the kids and fucking prostitutes as well as a colleague it was still all my fault. And I did a pathetic pick me dance after being sacked because I bought into his shit. I hate the dirty bastard but I am so happy it’s over. I was paralysed and now I’m not. My pride may have been dealt a blow because I didn’t take charge and make the decision but hallelujah I am free. And that is all that matters.
Good luck Lyn (and all the other chumps who needed a little help to see the light). I’m with you all the way.
Lyn – I understand exactly how you felt. My Ex was the one who left – even though I should have been the one to do it years ago when it finally dawned on me that he truly, deeply did not care about me one bit. His #1 focus – even when we were dating – was himself and I was just along for the ride. However, I was so desperate to have that “ride” (i.e. marriage, children, the “perfect family” that I never had growing up) that I just stuffed away in my mind the glaring fact that I was married to a narcissistic controlling a-hole. When I finally, in my mid-40’s, starting asserting myself in the marriage – questioning his many crazy business decisions and his constant need to risk our financial security for “the next big thing” – he pulled out the “I love you but I’m not in love with you…I need space…etc.etc.” speech so many of us on this site were treated to by our Ex’s. He walked away from our home, our two wonderful, amazing boys, immediately was in a relationship with another woman (and yes I know she had to have been waiting in the wings) and has never looked back. I was literally in shock for over a year – moving, unpacking, working (even got a raise and promotion two months after he left), helping a preteen and teen boy come to terms with their dad abandoning them, caring for my mother, and so on…but I wasn’t really living. I wasn’t feeling anything…just a few bouts of crying now and then but basically just…numb. Splat on the floor is the right way to describe it! Now, a year and a half later, I am beginning to wake up! I am angry as hell at him. If I could legally tear him to shreds, I would. I have cried more since Christmas than I did for the entire 15 months prior…but it feels good. It feels real. I am coming back to life and deciding to LIVE. Good for you for choosing to do the same. We will survive and thrive and be better in the end for being released from the cage!
I was left too – after 10 years of living a complete lie. And I must have known it deep down, because I kept having the same dream, over and over. I was wandering around my childhood school, searching for my locker. And when I found it, I couldn’t get it open – and I would wake up terrified. After Dday – when he told me he’d been screwing around our ENTIRE marraige, the dream stopped – I ‘ve never had it again. So I found dreammoods.com; and the meaning of this dream is ” In particular, to dream of a school locker denotes hidden feelings, knowledge, and attitudes that you need to learn and/or acknowledge. To dream that you cannot open a locker or that your forgot the combination suggests that you are unsure of where you stand in a particular situation. You feel you have lost some aspect of yourself. In other words, you are on shaky ground. If you cannot find your locker, then it symbolizes your insecurities about your role or position in a situation.” Seriously. I knew all along.
And please, don’t ever feel guilty for not being the one to leave – we’ve all had enough guilt. The end result is the same. You are free.
I wonder if, for some of us, due to various childhood issues and the many different family dynamics that we were subjected to, we unconsciously become conditioned to accepting less love, consideration and affection from our partners. Thus, we love our husbands/wives deeply and completely, while unwittingly, accept being loved less. We love them more than they love us, making allowances for their selfishness, self-centredness etc. and somehow always striving to make up for their shortfall in their affections for us. (Goes back to that child earnestly trying SO hard to be good in order to smooth the waters and rocky patches.)
We hold it all together for years and when we’re chumped (it’s much easier for someone to be unfaithful when you don’t love your partner all that deeply – or love yourself more) we become numb, paralysed. To face that opens up a whole new Pandora’s Box – it’s not “just” the infidelity we have to cope with, as if that wasn’t devastating enough. Facing the fact that our partners did not love us as much as we loved them is excruciatingly painful. Even worse, is facing the fact that we did accept less, we handed over our power to them. Then, the ultimate pain as Regina and Lyn so aptly put it, how alone can one be when you don’t even have YOU?
This can continue to play out with the friends we choose to stand by and any subsequent romantic relationships until we work on our pickers and examine why we accept less than we deserve.
I definitely did not place myself in this category and I was not aware at the time that I loved my xh more than he loved me. I thought throughout our marriage that we had a truly deep love for one another. I really, really did.
With hindsight however, I was aware throughout our years together of his selfishness and self-centredness, and I spackled – I had buckets of Polyfilla!
I realize now that I did love him more than he loved me and that realization took me a long time to come to. Perhaps because I was so numb for a long time.
I left him, some survival instinct kicked in and I was strong then – it was after the fact that I was numb and paralysed. The fact that the day I moved out, he moved on completely without a look back, probably had a lot to do with my paralysis.
This site and insightful posts and replies has helped me deal with it all so much better – I struggled on my own for the first few years without CL and Chump Nation.
“To face that opens up a whole new Pandora’s Box – it’s not “just” the infidelity we have to cope with, as if that wasn’t devastating enough. Facing the fact that our partners did not love us as much as we loved them is excruciatingly painful.”
Damn, Lynn. I resemble that remark.
I went months and months waking up at 2 am every freaking night and just ruminating on my ex’s behavior and my situation till dawn. Months. It was killing me physically. I would ask myself over and over “why is she behaving this way?” “How can she do this?” “Why can’t she see how damaging this is to to me and everyone in our family?” “Why won’t she behave the way I would in her position?” Hahaha
The answers were simple, of course. They were all the same answer, in fact, but I struggled mightily not to see it. Then one night, I just answered myself — “because she doesn’t love you.” “What kind of person treats you this way? A person who doesn’t love you.” ….and it was like a dam broke. (I’m a guy so it’s embarrassing for me to write this). My God was it painful admitting it to myself. Unbelievably so. “Excruciating” is exactly right, Lynn.
Once I was able to do it, though, I could sleep again. The mind is a fascinating thing.
Alyosha; If there is anything worse than a nightmare, it is a “daymare” when you can’t wake up and have it end! With a nightmare, at least when you wake up you can think “damn! I am sure glad that nightmare wasn’t real, cause that was hell!” With a daymare it is real around the clock, hour after hour, day after day. Do not be embarrassed, if more men had your depth and guts to face this kind of pain, many of us would not be going through this. I only wish for you someone who can appreciate it!! This is my wish for you. (and all of us Chumps for that matter!)
Alyosha – you nailed it! The whole reason our Ex’s did what they did to us is because they do not love us. It is truly humanly impossible to do what my Ex did to me to someone you love. Plain and simple…yet so painful to realize. I am actually coming to terms with why I accepted the crumbs of affection that I got from him over the years…again plain and simple…because that was all I got from my dad. He was a cold, abusive (physically and verbally) man and I truly, deeply did not feel loved by him at all. I didn’t shed a tear at his funeral, and have only visited his grave once in the 19 years since he died. I had NO idea that a man could actually love a woman when I got married. I thought all men treated their wives with disdain…were controlling…were mean. I thought that because my Ex didn’t hit me and had a job, I had hit the marriage jackpot! My deepest sadness now is not that I am divorced, but that I allowed someone to treat me that way for so long. If it were not for my two wonderful kids, I would literally have no idea what the 23 years of my life that I spent with my Ex were for!? I cling to the hope that it was God’s plan for my children to exist on this earth and that is the reason…
I agree the mind is a fascinating thing. Once I remember I told my ex in a dream “It’s okay, I’m strong enough for you to leave me now.” This was a couple of years before he actually left. Looking back I realize my subconscious knew what my conscious was denying.
Alyosha,
No need to be embarrassed. I am definitely a guy’s guy. Not a punch you in the arm locker room guy, mind you. So, I know what you mean. And, I have cried more lately than I have since I was a little kid. Man, it feels good. I don’t want to lose the vulnerability. I feel more alive. Counter-intuitive, I know. But, I feel better and clean, too. I sleep well after. Just some thoughts.
Nicole, my ex also lived by “looking for the next big thing…” He was all about acquisition and being recognized for his fabulousness. LOL
ChumpLady, that was brilliant.
I think Chumps also start to identify themselves BY the pain! We start to love the pain. I remember being proud of how much he could hurt me, and I would still hang in there, by his side. I’ll show that OW too! I’m way tougher than her!
My X was that sub-set of cheater that loved me sooooo much, all while he was getting blown by the insane pot-head neighbor. This certainly added to my inability to act with my head, when he kept showing me love. It kept me hooked.
Hey, it’s OK LilyBart, let’s all just learn, and not be fooled again.
I remember feeling (fooling) as though it meant that I was a stronger person for hanging in there. That no matter what happened, I could take it instead of running just because we were having “troubles”….. Don’t all marriages have “troubles”?
It was a load of baloney…… but I even bought my own excuses that I made up for him. I was SuperChump!
And I was more “adult”and “mature”. How convenient for him, while he could do his Peter Pan routine.
Lyn, I also waited for my time to come. Imagine my surprise when I discovered it’s never coming!
Or maybe we grew up identifying love with pain so it seems normal to us.
I’m raising my hand on this one too. Distant mother, absent father, mom died when I was 13, disapproving foster family held the threat of being sent away over my head, Although ex-NPD railed against the treatment by the adults in my childhood, it was projection. It took many months of therapy before the fog lifted and I saw I’d picked and stayed with a life that was unconsciously familiar to me.
It’s not always easy to lift the fog and recognize these issues. It’s so unconscious and so profoundly part of us.
But that is the key before we can truly move on – we need to see why we make these choices, however unconscious they may be. That’s part of fixing our pickers. Spending time alone, having a good therapist and mindfully setting out to change it to regain our lives.
Sometimes it really doesn’t seem fair (fair? what’s that?) to have things stacked up against you like MANY of us have from the very start, where one bad situation seems to lead to another & another and it takes, books, shrinks, depression meds, Chump Lady & Nation, sleepless nights (or sleeping pills) and more pain than one can imagine surviving just to get to “Go,” sometimes 2/3 or more into our lives. I hope we will make it count for something. To regain sanity for ourselves and our children. I stopped the alcohol thing in my family tree. Maybe we can help our children and grandchildren with their “pickers.”
Ugh Lyn, that one hit the mark!
This. Completely.
I grew up with my primary parent being cold and unreachable. It caused a familiarity with not getting what I needed, not being treated “well” or with warmth in love. It didn’t reflect back to me that I was a person who deserved support/warmth/affection. When my husband caused the same feelings in me it caused me to hold tighter and try harder (instead of to run in the opposite direction) and it triggered in me a sense that THIS is what love is, even though it causes pain, it’s the same pain I grew up knowing so it felt right on some level.
Me too, it made me hold on and try harder! That’s what’s been so hard to come to terms with, that I tried so hard for someone who never had any intention of trying to meet my needs. I waited so long and so patiently I became a door mat. Wipe your shoes on me, I can take it! See how loyal I am to let you keep doing it? Enduring all this suffering makes me worthy of your love!
One more thing, CL. You wrote “The pain was your price of admission to not have to deal with yourself. ” I think that’s true. On the flip side, I’ve often thought my ex’s affair destroying our family was HIS price of admission for not dealing with himself.
Best. letter. and. response. post. EVER.!
LilyBart you are so not alone. I’ve wasted years in denial. And CL and other posters above are right with their answers. Only wanted to add that I think it’s a mix of two groups of issues. The first is your own personality traits that drive you towards being stuck and the second is the particular kind of emotional/psychological abuse that is happening. Related to chumpy personality traits, what comes to mind is being more empathetic, forgiving, understanding, rationalizing, less confident, more self critical. Related to the abuse, it’s designed to keep you frozen with a mix of hot/cold, deception, manipulation, blame mixed with dangled carrots for good behavior, all mixed with a lack of awareness on your part that this kind of abuse even exists (takes a while to catch on that this is a THING).
Karen I did the same thing. X had an affair about 8 years previous to this one. At the time I could see it and warned him of the apparent feelings this co-worker/ friend had for him. He still insisted it was just a friendship. I wanted so bad to believe he wouldn’t betray me and I was AFRAID. I didn’t want our marriage to end. Even after the affair ended he still insisted that it was just a friendship. He never could admit there was even an emotional affair, even when we went to counselling and the councillor told him that it was and there was no way in hell he could have another woman for a best friend. DHUUU!! I buried it and continued on because I loved him. This time I had to face reality. The marriage should have ended a long time ago with the first affair. Its so hard to let someone go when you have invested so much. 28 years is a long time and now even though I don’t want to be alone it is the best for me at this time. I am almost one year since I left. Still finding it very hard but I’m also glad that I’m not with someone who thinks I’m just apart of the fixtures in the marriage. I am a much better person that he is , I am much smarter than he is and I have so much more integrity that he does. This is the last time I will put myself into a position of being picked last, by someone else.
Almost my exact same story…the “best friend” coworker. Even when I woke him up at 2 am to let him know I’d discovered his journal, that I now knew the truth, he told me I didn’t understand what I read. That’s when I realized the expert manipulation I’d been subject to for all those years…
Just saw a great movie”the secret life of Walter Mitty”. There was a great quote in it. “Life is about courage and going into the unknown. To see the world, to draw closer, to find each other. That is life” I noticed it said “to find each other”‘which made me cry. It is not about finding any willing partner who will give you kibbles and screw you.
I LOVED the movie. I’m looking forward to it coming out for rental, so I can watch it again. Possibly more than once. It really struck a chord inside me, somewhere I’m not even sure of.
Yeah, I don’t know why it hit me the way it did but it had a real impact on me. Plus, I now need to make good on old plans to visit Iceland. 🙂
I just saw taht movie as well. I adored it.
For me, the biggest fear and pain of dday were about my kids. Basically, their lives would be forever messed up. They would have a broken, divorced home, shuffled back and forth, and who know how much friction between me and their dad. Another pain was that I would lose time with my kids.
So now…..all those things have come true. They do live in a broken home. They are shuffled back and forth. And I have lost time with them (I have primary physical custody but ex has lots of visitation). BUT….. here’s what I hadn’t expected….it’s still much better than living with the ex! The kids aren’t walking on eggshells at least 3/4 of the time (when they’re with me), I’m starting to rejoin the land of the living and am less stressed also, a better mom for them. They were already living in a broken home, we just didn’t have the certificated to go with it yet (divorce decree). Even though my main my “fears” came true, life is still better! Who knew?
Thanks Duck, that is very encouraging to me and words I will remind myself of. The kids are already in a broken home. And He broke it.
DuckerLinerUpper,
Well said! You had a broken home, but without the certificate. Now you have a better home, and your kids are benefiting.
Dr. Phil says “Children would rather be FROM a broken home than live IN one.” I have to agree!
Also, Lilybart, you said “…he knew that I was petrified that he would drink and drive, so he would use that fear against me by telling me he was staying a bit longer at a friend’s house when he was really with his girlfriend.”
Now that you mention it, it sounds familiar because mine did the same thing….I didn’t realize how messed up that is, until I just saw it written out.
Mine did too. And I bought it. NEVER AGAIN.
I stayed in paralysis for quite a while too. I knew, I cared, but went for the kibbles I needed so badly from him… his promises to change, his reassurances that he loved and wanted me, the makeup sex. Yup, I was *that* chump.
I agonized for years over whether or not to leave him…. until one day I woke up and no longer felt the agony of indecision. I couldn’t see it and make a move until I was ready, and when that day came there was no going back, ever. There was nothing he could say or do at that point that would make me change my mind like all the other times. I don’t know what did it, but one day I just had a clarity I’d never had before. Time’s up, Cheater; this Chump is moving on.
Excellent post CL
It is only now with time that I can see that at DDay I was in fear. In fear of my marriage ending. I agree with many chumps posts about this time. I was numb, I am a strong woman, independent, funny and usually happy. I look back now and during that awful numb period I cannot remember laughing at all.
A gf of mine insists that we should laugh at something every day. But what? When faced with crap from a numpty, what can make us feel good? So I made an effort to find something each day that made me smile or laugh out loud. It was hard some days. But for me it got better. Yes many times I think about the exh but it gets less and less each day. I’m sooo looking for the day that I realise I didn’t think about the numpty. And yes NC is good for reducing the crap and stress.
BTW thank you CL for your continued support and posts as it makes it seem real what I went through, cos no one knows what it’s like unless they have lived the crappy ride.
Thanks CL and others. It helps tremendously to know that I am not the only one who went through the bizarre, almost creepy paralysis. I definitely relate to the posts about not having yourself any more. That was me for a long time.
The cycle went something like this: Think obsessively about what is going on, know you have to leave, hate yourself for not leaving, doubt your worth, descend into fear, put off leaving. Rinse and repeat.
Honestly, for me, I had to make a decision NOT to do what I was feeling, because I knew I had to get myself off that evil merry-go-round. I am glad I did that. I’m incredibly proud of myself for leaving, and I would recommend it to anyone who finds him- or herself stuck. Now, I just want to understand it fully. And this conversation has helped, so thanks again. 🙂
LilyBart-
Yes, leaving is so much better! But at the time when faced with the decision about what to do, leaving almost seems to be a crazy thought… if you leave, your future life will look NOTHING like you thought it would. You’ve already been through the ringer and realized your past and present life were not what you thought they were. You’ve been forced to confront the questions of: who is my spouse? This person I thought I knew better than anyone and trusted more than anyone has been lying and betraying me. If I don’t know who they are, who do I know? If I can’t trust them, who can I trust? The experience has already feel alone in the world and you don’t want to accept it. You want everything to be better… back the way it was (you have not yet realized that the way things were before weren’t actually as good as you thought… that realization happens AFTER you leave) .
So, you want it to make it better. Fix it. And if your spouse feeds you a few lines and at least sort of acts like he’s trying, then you cling to it. And these guys can talk. Action, they aren’t so good at… but different circumstances can allow them to hide their actions better and so the talk wins you over.
Plus, we have probably been treated like shit by them for so long that we do accept the scraps… only when it becomes unbearable (and as CL says, we all have different pain tolerances) do we realize we want, no NEED, more. That we can’t live on what they’ve been feeding us.
Lily Bart,
CL described who I was for over 20 years. People saw me as a strong woman who would never put up with serial cheating but I did. Three years prior to the final DDay, I went to individual counseling because I could no longer survive the way I was living. I still had no intention of leaving (he wasn’t cheating at that time, or so I think), I just wanted to reclaim myself. I didn’t feel right. I got stronger and stronger, and when the final DDay (3rd OW) came, I threw him out immediately, and I have never looked back. He came begging a year later asking for forgiveness, and I calmly told him I have moved on. No drama, just the facts because I have indeed moved on … not with another man, but without him. That’s enough.
Learn from the past but leave it there. It has no room for where you are today – free with another chance to live an authentic life where you matter.
Although my situation was different in the sense that I reacted pretty soon after D-Day, I will say that there is something satisfying about saying “I’ve had ENOUGH.” Certainly it’s still difficult, but perhaps when you are truly done, you are able to get to that new life faster.
For me I just reacted so fast and he moved out, and everything fell down so quickly, that I almost didn’t have time to say “ENOUGH.” It’s more like, after the dust settled, “WTF JUST HAPPENED?” haha
I’m not saying one way is worse or better than the other, just different.
Either way, it sucks royally, and we all understand. It’s chaotic no matter how you slice it.
Luna-
I actually had a combo of what you’re talking about… 6 months “reconciliation” but then he did something that was the straw that broke the camel’s back and I guess I did go ENOUGH! But I packed his shit up and got rid of him so fast that I was also like “wtf just happened?!?”
I think if I’d thought about it and tried to rationalize it I would have talked myself out of it… which might be another reason people that stay with their cheater for a while. Because, let’s face it, there are a lot of rational reasons to stay. It was only when I let myself be guided solely by primal emotion that I got the balls to leave.
I was asking myself “WTF happened?” for well over a year after I ended the bogus reconciliation. In fact, writing this I’m just realizing that I haven’t wondered that to myself for a long time. Huh, I guess I’m getting closer to meh, little by little.
Nowhere near “meh” but working on it.
thirstyfish,
I got stuck on the “forgiveness issue” too – and coming from a Christian perspective, it really haunted me until one of the folks at church gave me this definition of forgiveness to consider. He said that forgiveness is turning the other person over to God for judgement; taking that judgement and punishment responsibility off your plate, and trusting that God will know EXACTLY what happened; how to judge it; and how to administer the perfect consequence. Let me tell you, that was such a relief to me, and I was able to forgive my exH and move on then. The burden and guilt was totally off my shoulders.
My exH had some seriously screwed up parents and a nightmare childhood, full of terrible pain and abuse. So I’d excused so much of his abuse of me and his terrible behavior – he’d learned it from his parents – he didn’t know any better – he NEEDED me to love him and fix him and be his family…
But God knew all of that…the complete and total truth. And because He is all-knowing, like the perfect judge, He knows EXACTLY the punishment that is appropriate. What amazing peace that has been for me. No more trying to figure out what is true; what is fair; the exH has been placed in the hands of the perfect, wisest judge there is – and he is no longer my problem. Hope that helps a little…
oh yes this did help me because I told him he would have to confess his sin of infidelity to me our family and our priest but he said no .. at that moment I realise he don’t love me after 28 yrs together .. so I’m in middle of divorcing packing up my things getting ready put house on market and I’m moving to florida where I will further my education get career and I won’t look back ‘ I realise he never knew what a true treasure I am n guess what ” we all are a treasures . GOD BLESS all my new chump friends here be of strong faith stand up and take a bow I applaud each of you the next chapter of life will be my best revenge to live well DITO
Dear ReDifiningMe,
Thank you so much for posting this comment!! That is one of the most awesome things about putting our relationship with our Creator foremost in our life!! Has brought me so much inner peace, as well!
Even God does not automatically forgive just everyone for anything. He has requirements and standards and he will deal (lovingly & mercifully) with all on the basis of those standards and requirements.
The points you mentioned about your spouses’ messed up parents and childhood is pretty nearly universal with cheaters. That is another reason it is so good to know it is up to God to deal with it—only he knows ‘the rest of the story’!
(To all—–l am LOVING reading through the posts & comments! So empowering, so strenghtening!! Thank you for sharing!)
Forge on, friends….forge on!
That’s how I’ve tried to approach it too. Let go of the anger and bitterness and trust God to deal with my ex. Takes the burden away so I can journey towards my new life without carrying such heavy baggage.
Thanks ReDefiningMe,
That helps a great deal. I do get stuck all the time on how little of the complete and total truth I know. What’s true? What’s fair? Your experience helps me see that I can let it go. Not my job to know it all. Thanks.
Thirstyfish; I got stuck here too; mind going around and around trying to figure out the “whole story.” We will never know, and what we do know will be through a distorted lens. It is like trying to build a 1000 piece puzzle with half the pieces missing. Cruel they often know what you need, but do not want to give it to you.
I got rid of her so fast, I was the same way. lol Like “Um…wtf was that?” I had to laugh anotherErica. It was primal emotion. Sometimes I’m still like “wtf.”
yeah, it’s always going to be a bit of a wtf… because it’s such a shitty thing to do that you still almost can’t believe it happened. You almost can’t believe you went through that… that they put you through that.
Yes – the primal emotion – I think we chumps don’t want to go by emotion because we think we need to be smarter than that… we must THINK… and we DEFINITELY don’t want to rely on these primal urges like what we think corrupted our cheaters.
But, let’s face it, they weren’t going on primal urges. Most likely, they weren’t just out of the blue possessed with some kind of animal instinct that they needed to immediately mate with the nearest member of the opposite sex that wasn’t their spouse. No, they slowly let down boundaries, flirted, whined about their spouse, lied, covered their tracks, and lied some more. They “rationally” decided they deserved their cake.
That’s why they’re sociopaths (alright, maybe an extreme characterization)… while we think the only way we could ever do anything like that to someone we care about would be if we let our basic urges take over and had no rational thought whatsoever. We know that if we thought about what we were doing for even a split-second we would know it was wrong, how much it would hurt our spouse and wouldn’t do it. Which is why none of us have cheated… because we can’t turn our brains off that long 🙂 But these cheaters made an active, rational decision to cheat. And THAT is why I can’t forgive.
aE, you’ve very accurately explained why the “but it was a mistake!” is such a big lie. First, it wasn’t “a,” as in “one.” To carry on an affair, the cheater had to engage in several actions. Second, these actions weren’t mistakes. A mistake is an accidental wrong. These people first let their boundaries down (and to be honest, I can see this as being a “mistake” for some people who themselves are prone to being swayed by narkles), but then they actively pursue their liaisons. It takes a lot of planning–a lot of choice–and that gives lie to the whole “mistake” crap.
We Chumps do want to believe in “a mistake,” though. Because it means that our cheaters have seen the light and will never do it again.
Hah!
What I told my ExH when he used that “mistake” line was
#1) A mistake is not intentional
#2) A mistake is not planned & connived
#3) A mistake is not done over & over again. This is called a choice, not a mistake…but nice try!
A mistake is something like bouncing a check, being snarky with your Boss because you didn’t get enough sleep, forgetting to pick up the dry cleaning, etc.
yep, I don’t even believe one night stands happen without some active decision making… sure, maybe that “rational” decision making was over the course of a few drunken minutes – but when they were sober they probably decided to let themselves get drunk to excuse any future bad behavior.
That being said, at least a one night stand doesn’t involve actively carrying out a double-life, so if I was going to believe in reconciliation, I would believe in that reconciliation. (then again, one night stands are probably the easiest to get away with so who would confess it… and if they’ve confessed or been found out about one, who knows how many it really is… in other words, reconciliation is for the birds)
And, continued to do it for years. My ex STBX wanted to have another baby while this was going on (I think). Again, WTF? That just gets me back to the fact that I really did miss some real signals. But, I was also lied to by a clever asshole who was doing everything she could to cover it up.
I certainly haven’t forgiven, too soon to seriously consider. I am too bent out of shape.
oh yeah, much too soon for you… I’m much further out and I have “meh”ly decided I will never forgive. I read a whole book about it (remember, I’m a “thinker”, aka Amazon chump… other than that one time when packing my ex’s bags), I wish I could remember the title, about how you don’t need to forgive, you just need to accept that it happened.
Thanks AnotherErica,
I’ll look into those books.
In the meantime, chop wood carry water. Keep your nose to the grindstone. One foot in front of the other. Trudge the road to happy destiny. Non illigitemi te carborundum…and ever anon. Ad infinitum.
Thirstyfish,
Remembered it! It’s called “how can I forgive you? The courage to forgive, the freedom not to”. By Janis abrahms spring. I liked it at the time, but can’t locate it now to see if I still agree :). I also really liked the book coming apart by daphne rose kingma… It has some good writing exercises.
Sorry you’ve had to deal w this shit before from others…. not only do the cheaters not consider the effect on the kids, they actually blame you for initiating the divorce even though they were the ones cheating. They suck.
Lots of changes coming up again for me soon as well… the last time when all this shit came down I just tried to focus on the day to day and the things that were the same while still taking those steps that would result in both little and big changes for me in the long run.
Good luck!
If you come across it, let me know. I’ve read some Christian based ones that are good and some that are spiritual. I have had to forgive some horrible abuses in the past from family and others. So, I am familiar with the process.
I am knocked out flat some days. Lots of changes. Even my partnership/business is ending. It’s good though. It’s just I have no idea where to go from here. And, I get overwhelmed thinking of all the shit I need to do. A friend of mine said “Some days you just have to stand there and hurt.”
This one seems to be the hardest though. I think it’s because we have our daughter together. What jackhole would not consider the effect on the kids? But….I know the answer….. like most of us here….
I was completely paralyzed for six months. I don’t think I even breathed. I just sat there completely numb. I ‘waited’ for my husband to come to his senses, to just come home and act like nothing ever happened. We’d go on with our life like before. I didn’t tell a lot of people. I waited. And waited. And guess what? He never came home. Imagine that! He stayed in my life pretending to care deeply and maybe he did on some level. He was extraordinarily generous with the divorce settlement and then some. Did it make my heart break any less? No. It gave me hits of hopium on a daily basis.After devouring the posts here for weeks I realize that he didn’t do the mindfuckery that most of you have experienced. He didn’t even attempt reconciliation but he did let me catch him sneaking off to a motel room with OW. That’s how I knew my marriage was over. I thought we had an awesome thing going. We had just renewed our wedding vows at his insistence and three months later there he was with her at the Econo Lodge. I thought I would die from the pain. I cried every day for 16 months solid. I cried in front of my coworkers and I cried in front of my clients. I lost tons of weight and my hair fell out. That was six years ago and I haven’t even come close to falling in love again. I hope it happens some day.
Finally him and the OW moved 3000 miles away. Thank dog I think I’m FINALLY getting to MEH!! Thank you Chump Lady for this site. I wish I would have found it sooner. I sent you some $$$ last week. God Bless You and all the other fabulous chumps here!~
Chump Change. Wow! Really the Econo Lodge! LOL
Chumpchange, I cried forever too. I cried so much I discovered that Preparation H helped with the swelling under my eyes. The car was the worst, I couldn’t drive anywhere without crying the whole time. But eventually the crying became more sporadic and then it stopped. Anyway, my heart goes out to you. It sounds like maybe your grief has passed and you’re doing better now that you can focus on YOU.
It’s strange, the only time I really, really cried after ex first dumped me was when I had to tell our then-13-year-old son that his dad had left and we would be divorcing. What a fucking nightmare that was, I will NEVER forgive the ex for that moment.
But after that, I barely ever cried again. There were times I WANTED to cry so bad, I felt like I’d explode if I didn’t let out the tears. But I just couldn’t do it. Maybe that was my subconscious telling me everything was going to be okay, and that losing that monster was really nothing to cry about at all.
I know I’m paralyzed. Afraid to make the final leap w/o having the details set up…yet. That’s my job right now. Despite the fear of financial insecurity, I’m meeting another atty next week. Just making sure I shut him out from all the best firms here.
The thing that paralized me was knowing my kids would be exposed to the weird (putting it nicely) people in his orbit, and I wouldn’t be around to cushion/spin/spackle. I just could not let that happen.
Great letter and post. I like the chump curled up in the bush. I was like that on Monday. Inert. But not from denial.
I vacillate between beating myself up and cutting myself a break on this. Mostly, I get pissed about it. My STBX cheated on me while dating. She told me about it the night before I took the bar exam. Thanks for that! I dumped her right then. Then she called continuously and made all sorts of promises. I accepted her remorse and decided to continue dating. Ffffuuuuuccckkk.
That was 11 years ago. I knew it then. I had been chumped before. I had therapy and worked on myself. I was never married but had long term girlfriends. Things were ok for a while. But now, who knows if it was ok? It could all be bullshit. At this point, I am unwilling to investigate. I have all the information I need.
Then, things weren’t ok. I asked my cheater for a divorce before I knew I was chumped. The trouble was that she blamed me for all of our problems. She never took responsibility and just stopped apologizing for anything. Furthermore, she barely worked. And, we needed her to work in the marriage at least until one of us didn’t have to or had a better position etc..,. You know pay your dues stuff. The final straw was I asked her for help and she failed to be even remotely interested in helping our family financially. She picked meaningless fights at the worst of times (big job responsibilities due, promotions, or illness; oh and always late at night). There were many other things that were not loving.
Then, with all of that, I caught her talking on the phone to some guy (was ex boyfriend; now doofus boyfriend). I knew something was just not right. That was 3 long years ago. She lied about the whole thing. Just a friend blah blah….my head went back in the sand. I knew enough then to visit a therapist with the sole purpose of deciding to stay married or not. I did not “know” she was cheating. But, I think I did deep down. I just couldn’t face it. I wasn’t ready. I can say this now and I hate it.
Denial is a powerful tool. She told me who she was on a daily basis and I chose to ignore it. I was protected until I was ready. It sucks right now. But, a month ago was a lot worse and I’m getting better all the time. I don’t know why I stuck my head in the sand with this cheater. I thought I had learned lessons; did the hard work on self. So, I will do more work and get better. I’m not jaded about love or marriage. She fucked this one up. And, I did in ways but I was there to work for it. I didn’t have a chance really though.
I look back and I wish I would have ended it when I caught her on the phone. I totally ignored my self. I can’t say I wasted 11 years because my daughter came to us in the marriage. But, I wish I could’ve saved those three years after the dopey ex-boyfriend call incident. What am I to do except forgive myself and move on?
I had a similar experience with exams. I was working towards my masters and it seemed like he would always start some big confrontation when I had a major exam. I still wonder, did he want me to fail? did he just need to be the center of my attention, more important than that test? Wacko
Oh, and I think it’s a lot of both wanting me to fail and her be the center of my attention. It was really twisted.
Yes, the jealousy they have towards you, knowing that you are ‘better’ than them, that you are pursuing virtuos goals and the only thing they have to their ‘credit’ is how slick they are with hiding what they are doing, how ‘creative’ they are at finding a way to be together with the AP!
Yes, they want you to fail at all your endeavors, as it will bolster them and they can say, “I told you so!” or “Look at what a loser spouse I have every body!” In their minds, it gives them another justification for their cheating if you fail.
Yes, so twisted!
Forge on, friends….
quicksilver,
It happened all the time with events centered around me doing well. Even in my blind chumpiness I noticed that the drama came at my big or crucial moments. I didn’t realize HOW selfish and weird it was until my friend said something like “Can she be anymore selfish?” It all kind of clicked. Examples are: night before bar exam, night before big job interview picked huge fight, night before my birthday caught on the phone for first time with AP, fight when big job/money opportunity came, major writing project for me personally and she gets one too!, and so much more.
The year before I left my dream job (at the time) I won some awards that were based on peer recognition and the like. It mostly came from a big media trial I had earlier that year. She was out of town for the whole trial. I am convinced that she would have pulled some major drama if she were there. Wacko is right.
With you on the cartoon – I actually think that it might be one of my favorites. It just really captures how you feel after dday. The chump looks so alone; scared and paralyzed. But the title lightens it up just the teeniest bit… so we know it’s going to be okay.
And now that I’m overanalyzing it, I’m going to continue and have decided the chump also looks like they are in a cocoon and will soon emerge a beautiful butterfly!! 🙂
I can relate to the cartoon too. The first day I came home to my empty house I started trying to pack things up, attempting to sort through our 30+ years of life together. I found myself wandering in a daze through the house. Then I just laid down on the couch and felt so heavy I couldn’t move.
I know. God, I was laid out flat Monday. I don’t know why; but I did speak with ex on Sunday briefly. She was a little weepy. Made me think of all kinds of crazy stuff. But, mostly, I was thinking that she IS human and not that weirdo she turned into. Oh well, it’s usually full force NC and it’s good. I am up and down but mostly on the up. I am ready to break through the cocoon hopefully soon.
I had moments of that after dday with my xh: “I was thinking that she IS human and not that weirdo she turned into.” But getting past the finalization of the divorce has thankfully helped me stop dwelling on it all. I guess, at some point recently, I have just accepted that he just isn’t who I loved anymore (or ever? who knows!).
I wish I wouldn’t have stayed paralyzed for 2 years but I did. I was paralyzed for all of the reasons CL outlined. I’m so glad that I finally decided enough is enough. My future is looking bright for the first time in a long time.
Enough about us for a minute. Let’s all support Chump Lady and donate to a GOOD Cause! Let’s make it worth her time. This should be her full time job.
We’ve spent plenty of money on therapy. No one has helped me as much as she has. And you guys, Fellow Chumps.
I pledge to support Chump Lady!!!
She made this site happen.
I’m challenging all my fellow Chumps to donate to this site.
As soon as I sort myself out financially CL will be getting a nice, healthy donation. I’m working towards it and it will happen.
Chumplady do you have a slight love affair with the ANC?
Please remember that it is a nationalist movement, in exactly the same way the National Party was a nationalist movement. One Afrikaner, one African, different sides of the same coin.
I read history, and think nationalism is a terrible political construct. It entrenches a split ‘us’ and ‘them’ mentality. It didn’t work for the Germans, the Japanese, the Arabs, the Afrikaners, and I have never thought it works for Africa.
The ANC has no hesitation in invoking apartheid secrecy and other laws to stop examination of their conduct. Their police have started shooting protesters. Unemployment and deindustrialisation has increased under them (Moeletsi Mbeki). And most sad of all, they are getting more and more racist in order to deflect attention away from their infrastructure and service delivery failures.
On the whole, I don’t think the ANC have done a terrible job, but they have created a lot of mess with their over-rapid transformation, cronyist cadre deployment, their difficulty in admitting skills shortage (created by apartheid), and the age old African problem of ‘now it is my turn to eat!’, resulting in incompetence, failure of planning and rampant corruption. All the things that whites were terrified of in the first place, and what kept them in line during apartheid. Rather the stupid Dutchmen than a thieving [ ].
I have been told that there are many very able young people in the ANC, but they are stifled and kept out by the old Liberators.
No, just a lot of admiration for anyone who fought against apartheid.
I have a tremendous amount of admiration for the late Rocky Williams. He was a friend of mine in graduate school, and part of the armed wing of the ANC. He was doing his PhD in London. He went back to reform the military, in 1991, under amnesty and became a Lt. Colonel in the new SADF. Before he died (in his early 40s), he went around the world helping new democracies transform their militaries. More on his life here: http://www.democracynow.org/1998/8/3/south_african_general_and_anc_mole
It’s sad to read how the ANC is changing. Jacob Zuma is disgraceful.
I tried to look it up how/why he died – couldn’t find it.
Fighting against Apartheid was extremely hard, you were almost automatically targeted to be ‘watched’ if you were English-speaking and showed any kindness or sympathy for Black people. I know all about it, I was watched by the Secret Police.
One of the administrators of the local university spoke about his experiences in the South African military prior to the end of apartheid. Because his family was anti-apartheid, and because military service was compulsory, the standard operating procedure was to put recruits from families like his into the more dangerous assignments in hopes they’d be killed or–just as good–they’d change their tune after having to defend themselves from resistance fighters.
Chumpchange you are right.
I have already donated, have you?
DONATE TODAY. It’s easy.
Yes Chump Change and Patsy you’re so right.
However, I am going to wait a bit CL, until the Canadian Loonie gets to be on par again or closer to it – otherwise I’ll just “short-change” you!
Yet more amazing insight from CL. Paralysis is definitely a common theme.
It took me years to work through that properly & fully. At first I was so angry and determined that I would make him change, make him sorry, make him see the error of his ways, make him pick me. I focussed so much time & thought on him and didn’t really think about myself at all. A lot of this was fuelled by the reaction of those around me, who encouraged me to focus energy on him – in terms of revenge, reform or reconciliation, it was still all about him. Very few people actually said, but what about you? What do you want to do now, where do you go from here? I think I was also slightly caught in the headlights, as I didn’t know what I wanted – all I knew is that the safety blanket (however stained, torn & manky) was being ripped away and I felt a bit starkers without it.
After we separated, I focussed on making him see the children. I changed the dialogue slightly but I was still determined to make him do what I thought he should (could also be called “the right thing”). I failed miserably. He endlessly bailed, endlessly changed plans at the last minute, endlessly re-jigged, re-scheduled & so the battle continued.
It took me about 6 years to realise that I was wasting my time, to realise that I was still caught in the trap of trying to make him be a better Dad. I stopped thinking about him and started thinking about me & the children. What did I want to do, what did I want for the children, where did we want to be, go etc. What life did I want for us.
I stopped thinking or caring about what kind of Dad he was & just got on with my life with the children. I never denied him access, never messed him around but just cracked on with my own life.
It seems so obvious now, but at the time it was so hard to step outside the cage that I had made for myself. I can’t tell you how liberating it is when you finally let go. When you trust completely & utterly that they suck, but to a certain degree it doesn’t matter because you have let go. If you have children, you have to tolerate a degree of interaction but it is possible to mostly let their crap float by.
“Solitary Confinement”. YES!. That is how to describe it. I just wanted to plug in and share that the other evening I was thinking about my future and it then came to me…I am sitting on a goldmine of opportunities. I have been sitting and waiting, crying and begging for 9 months since D-Day. “HE IS NOT COMING BACK. HE LEFT ME. I AM OKAY…”came like a mantra in my head. I didn’t cry and I wasn’t panicked…I acted. I grabbed my laptop and signed into a popular dating service. Not to get married. Not to get laid. To find myself again. I am legally separated and really have no desire for anything more than a “wink” or a “like”. So instead of looking into bank records or stare at his mistresses face online, I check into this new world of opportunity and it feels really good. The focus is now turned on MEEEEE. ME. ME. ME. ME .ME.Me!!!!!!!!! Just by writing and rewriting a profile paragraph felt good. I am interesting, smart, sexy, funny, loving. Just because my husband left me as garbage does not mean someone else would. I never thought I would be here but I have me…YOU HAVE YOU…and it’s our responsibility to create our own HAPPINESS. Stir your own pot!
CL,
I teared up reading this post. You took completely how I felt and put it into words. Heck, some of my feelings I didnt realize until I just read this.
I always told people I was able to take more than the normal person (I would hear my friends say what they would freak out on their bfs for and I used to think Ive been through way worse and I wouldnt even act like that. Looking back I think they were the normal ones). I was so scared to be without I figured pain is better thn nothing and, hey, he did treat me well sometimes so that gave me enough time to recover.
I literally explained to him: you are dangling me and the children on a thin rope above an abyss, whilst holding – and fondling – your AP with the other hand. Not focusing on pulling us in and bringing us to safety.
The power I gave him with that analogy! How wrong I was! There was no abyss… once I found the courage to look down, it was just a small step.
I misused all the excuses, children, finance, our past and future together – finding out now that the children and finances are way safer now. And there is no OUR future, but my future is much brighter, even if I live it alone, but not as lonely as in my after-Dday nightmare.
Two years after reading about how my first wife wanted to ” stop having sex with strangers”, and a year and a half after she came home at 2 AM and described the body of the man she had been with to me, I finally got out. And, it took my wife’s sister’s urging to get me to divorce her.
I was afraid of being alone. In reality, I was never more alone than when I was with that abusive asshole.
“I was afraid of being alone. In reality, I was never more alone than when I was with that abusive asshole.” I am sure it’s worse than being alone. Unfortunately, for many of us being abused is so normal that we don’t even see it. But our bodies do and we pay huge price for this “togetherness”.
It took me seven (7) years and five affairs to get out and then that wasn’t almost enough. I could not see while with my husband that I was the one “CHOOSING pain.” I was doing it for my children, my vows, etc. It’s hard to admit even now seven months after he left, that my front was just that, a front. I can now see clearly. I almost lost me and will never do that again. I love her too much!
I was told about his want of a divorce last July. We were divorced in Jan 2014. I am the of the LDS or Mormon faith. We were married in the temple and made covenants. It was a commitment on my part. He told me the Holy Ghost told him to leave me. He said the Holy Ghost told him to never marry me in the first place. He only married me because my parents put out money for the reception. I think he married me for lust. We have known each other for about 36 years. Most of that time we were married. I thought he was a great man. I loved him dearly. Still do but not in a romantic way. I became quite dependent in my marriage. I learned that to get any type of attention from him I had to be sick. Guess what, I made myself physically ill. I thought when he did things for me he was doing it out of love. No, he was gathering evidence against me. I have this terrible need to be with him. It makes me sick. His affair didn’t become public until Christmas 2013. He lied how he meet her to my children. We were still married. In our belief system you are married until the judge signs the papers. Anyway my one son told he was to affectionate with her to just have met her. I have found out that he has probably been seeing her since Oct 2012. I am currently being treated for Stockholm Syndrome. I think that tells you what my home life was like. He has told horrendous things about me. Two of my children believe him and our relationship is strained. He is very likable and believable. He knows how to hang his head and cry to gain sympathy. Yet, I still blame myself. I really am a chump. I was sexually abused as a child. Sex was difficult for me but I was doing better. Come to find out I was only good for two things in my marriage. Vagina and a bonus income. I bothers me that he is affectionate with this woman. He wasn’t with me. He hasn’t said a kind word to me in years. He kept me the crazy making cycle to keep me on the hook. My question is will this relationship of his last? He plans on marrying her. My sister tells me karma is a bitch. I don’t wish ill of him but I just want to feel like I didn’t cause all this mess.
Two things, Michelle sorensen,
First; Who gives a flip whether their relationship lasts?! Either way, it is a very sick ‘relationship’, so do not envy their sickness!
He is stil making you crazy….’Tis typical, though, so work on getting past it……Keep reading all the posts and comments here.
And, yes, your childhood experiences programmed you to accept his abuse of you.
Dr. Laura Schlessinger has an excellent book on the subject: “Bad Childhood, Good Life”. I encourage you to check it out.
I do not remember where I heard about this other web-site—–‘Human Magnet Syndrome’. (Maybe it was from CL?) Anyway……Maybe there is something there that can help you, as well.
Best help yet, though——THIS site!! The best on the subject I have found!
And, secondly, you absolutely, positively, did NOT cause all HIS mess!
Forge on, my friends…..
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I also was married to a LDS man for many years. When we first got married, I was not a member of the Church. Eventually, I converted and we were sealed in the temple a year later. He was having an affair during this time, and a week after our sealing the affair became more physical. The girl was underage and a Church member as well. I was devastated. For her, for her family, and for our family. How could he do this?? We have daughters! What would he think if someone did this to one of them? It had never occurred to me to “look inward” and think about what I might have done or not done to push him to do such a thing. Of course, in counseling this was thrown in my face. I got to hear all about what I wasn’t to him. And how aggressive our teenage babysitter was towards him.
The entire experience left me in such a state of shock, I couldn’t throw him out like I should have, or even notify the police. The Church didn’t, they just “counseled” him and disfellowshipped him and asked us to attend in a different ward and different building so we would not be in the same as her family. They basically covered it up. She received very little outreach, just like me. I was disgusted, and it made me physically ill…. not to mention the emotional toll. It freight trained my emotional wellbeing…. fast forward to the divorce and he’s using my “mental illness” against me at every turn…. yeah, the affair that gave me such grief and turned me into an anxious depressed wreck is dismissed entirely because I should have “handled” it better. I tried to get help, but there he was undermining me at every opportunity. So I buried myself in work. My job required long hours and a lot of travel for six months of the year…. sometimes a few days or a week at a time at least twice a month. I really believe that period of time prolonged our marriage because I could at least get away from him once in a while…. But I was leaving my girls with that monster. I don’t know why I didn’t think he wouldn’t harm them, but he did. Played with their feelings, made them think terrible things about me being away for work or working late.
You didn’t cause this any more than I did. I called bs pretty quickly when I was expected to take responsibility for my part of his affairs… because I knew up front and deep down that I didn’t cause him to run around with women. This man knew from day one that if he wanted to be there, then BE THERE…. if not then there’s the door; no hard feelings. When he tried to make me feel guilty for not trusting him, for not working harder to make our marriage work, I let him have it…. Told him he had it allllll backwards. HE’s the one who needed to be working his ass off to save the marriage, he’s the one who needs to be deserving of trust and forgiveness. This did not go over well with him at all, but that was just too damn bad.
Let me tell you something about Karma…. it does come around. Fuck him and his Karma though…. get some good Karma for yourself instead. You deserve some goodness in your life. Get out of his head game and surround yourself with people who love and support you (for me that was my family). When you do that, you’ll remember how it feels to be loved again. You can stop blaming yourself for what someone else does when you have no control over what they do. You can trust that he sucks and that you really can’t count on anything that comes from him to be authentic. Understanding this concept is quite liberating…. it takes the guess work out of your dealings with him.
Take care of you.
It was religious reasons for me, I thought vows meant something. I definitely put up with a lot of garbage in the marriage I should not have by telling myself that I was the one that made vows with her, I even bought into the RIC crap at the end. Glad it’s over now.
Paralysis is so understandable. There may be kids, shared finances, plus extended families and friends that will be impacted when you leave a cheater.
In my case, I was paralyzed for almost a decade. I truly don’t know what he was up to, but he was definitely acting like a turd. It took me a long time to even talk to my friends about it. But when I finally started talking to people about it, that’s when I realized he was an emotional abuser and a covert narc. Did he cheat? Irrelevant. I looked at my phone bills and saw he was up to something. He was keeping secrets with secret friends, etc.
And he treated me and the kids like shit. Like we were an inconvenience to him or an embarrassment. But it took me 10 years to get angry enough to call him out. He retaliated with rage and he got violent. Every argument ended with him acting like he was going to hit me. (Which I found bizarre, since he was the one being caught with his pants down!)
He rushed at me in front of my son and my mom. I fell back and hit my head. That unleashed a white hot fire in me and I screamed I hate you! three times. It was only about 6 months later that I felt so disgusted by him and his tantrums that I said if you don’t leave I’m calling the police. Not having him in the house is so PEACEFUL!!!!
Don’t feel bad or guilty. We do what we can do when we’re ready and able to do it.
In my mind, I was so embarrassed to be divorced. But when I realized that being divorced is better than being dead, I FINALLY took action. I realized that if I stayed in that marriage I would die. And it took me a long time to reach that conclusion. I am still not divorced. He’s been gone for TWO YEARS! The divorce was filed a year ago. It’s almost over!! It’s been rough. But I am almost at the finish line!!! Thanks CN and CL! You have helped me immensely.
Boy, is this timely. I just had an experience which I thought only chumps could understand. I’ve been considering sharing it at my 12-Step meeting tonight, but thought my chumpdom wouldn’t be on topic.
I saw my exFW last night – in a pizza parlor – for the first time in four years. We didn’t speak and avoided eye contact. I was a bit rattled because I might still love him. At least that was the last thing my heart felt before he broke it.
I know what my heart was feeling because I made a decision to get sober five years ago. I moved out within a few months and filed for divorce a year later. I had stayed longer than I should have with the use of alcohol. And, once sober, I felt the pain and learned to live on my own after a thirty-year marriage.
Because I was in a pizza parlor instead of a bar and because of chump nation, he saw a vibrant, upright person enjoying time with a friend.
I suspect chumps numb themselves in lots of ways, but that only facilitates FWs’ cheating behaviors.
I used food and work to numb out. I went on a year long trec to reach a normal BMI. During that year I saw what I had refused to see
.then I set boundaries and THAT WAS IT.Saying NO and Stop caused my cheater to implode and show me his affairs were my fault. That was it and I filed.
I wish I had left after 3 years. I spent over three times that. Once I shook off paralysis and contacted an attorney, there has been no turning back.
One thing about me, when I’m done, I’m done. Klootzak hasn’t even attempted to hoover. It could mean I’m no longer of value to him but more likely it’s because he sees that it would be wasted effort on his part. I had someone who was once a very close friend who crossed me and deeply betrayed me and I went no contact. She approached him (I saw this later in emails) asking klootzak to intercede on her behalf. His response to her was that it would not be of any use.
He considers me a crazy person who “just cuts people out of her life without communicating and resolving the issue.” To be clear, in my entire 50 years on this earth I have only had to totally cut someone out of my life 3 times, including klootzak. But in his mind, I do this all the time. He thinks I should accept and forgive every betrayal. I communicate and resolve differences all the time and have many friends I have known for decades but klootzak ignores that. He knows when I’m done, that’s it. And I think that’s why he stays in the house; it’s his only way left to remain in my presence even if only for the kibbles of being a void I ignore.
Do I wish I had left sooner? Sure I do. But I choose to look forward. I also hope that those of us who suffered longer can be a warning for people entering this blog early after the first D-day. Those years being stuck will have value if someone reads this and shortens their own trajectory out.
My mom spent 30 years in denial! So don’t beat yourself up for 3 years. It just came out two weeks ago (at a family reunion) that her & my stepdad moved 2 hours away from us….because he was chasing their friend’s daughter to that town! What the absolute fuckety fuck?!! And still my mom stayed with him until he left to chase an entirely different daughter!!! And my mom is educated & had a good job. Talk about being ground down to having no self-respect!! And keeping secrets too. Not once did she ever peep anything bad about him or his true nature! In fact, she gaslit us into believing he was a good guy too even when the evidence was there that he wasn’t. It’s the leftover intergenerational trauma from the “silent generation” before her. We can’t keep perpetuating this toxic unhealthiness. That’s why I talk to my kids & validate their views & emotions. And I listen when they talk to me about me (something my mother will not do) too even though it can sting & hurt!
Is she still with him??
One of the components of abuse that I’ve been reflecting a lot on as I approach a year since D-Day is just how indoctrinated we get by the bullshit. The lies. The gaslighting. The abuse.
And it’s amazing how isolating and “alone” we can feel even with the person that “makes us happy” right in the next room. I don’t miss that at all.
I know I stuck around during the Pick-Me Dance era in between “I want an open relationship” and “D-Day” was in part because I felt like I DESERVED the pain. That I was wrong and needed to compete to keep her and save the future that we(really, I) had built for us. The longer I go, the more I think about it-it was all the long con. Despite that, I was in love and didn’t want to imagine the world without her. I was in part happy in my misery.
Things are way better with her gone. I don’t live under the fear of the other shoe dropping and I am far less depressed and mood swing-y than I was with her around.
It scares me though-how much I didn’t know what my prison actually looked like until the jailer ran from her mistakes once and for all.
Yeah. The “frog in boiling water” metaphor gets a little overused (and I think I actually read somewhere that it’s not true – a frog will jump out of the water when it starts getting too hot), but that’s how the indoctrination works, I think.
There are certainly folks where the d-day is a shock, like with yesterday’s blog letter, where it seemed like a switch had flipped in her husband, and the moment she got pregnant her husband transformed into a turd (or, at least he finally came out as a turd. I’m sure he was always turd). But with others, it’s a slow, years’-long build up.
First, as you say, is the feeling that you “deserve” the pain. For me, that feeling didn’t arise out of nowhere. My ex started to complain daily about how unhappy she was, and how I was not meeting her needs, etc., etc., especially after we had kids. What I mean is that you feel like you “deserve” the pain because the person you love is flat out telling you how inadequate you are. Only later, with therapy, have I stopped apologizing for things all the time, and have come to realize, in hindsight, that my ex’s complaints were unfair, unreasonable, constantly changing, often contradictory, never ceasing, never her fault, never satisfiable and, most importantly, never justified cheating as a response. Trying to make her happy was like taunting a cat with a laser pointer – it was a crazy-making game.
Then, in this context of devaluation, comes the slow buildup of offenses. You notice a flirtation. Then an overly-familiar text. Then a lot of time spent with friends you’ve never heard of. Then an outright lie. Then … d-day. And, in all those mini-infractions, you say to yourself “would I really end a marriage because of one flirtation? Am I being insecure?” If you bring this up with your FW, they will certainly tell you that you are being insecure. They will also be deeply offended that you would question their character or motives. They may even tell you that what you saw was not what you saw. Next thing you know, a couple of years have gone by, and you beat yourself up for not leaving immediately after that first flirtation.
This is all a drawn-out way of describing the sunk cost fallacy, but I think people need to know these details because an outsider can smugly say “why did you put up with it for so long?” Well, first, I was being lied to. Second, I didn’t learn about everything all at once. Third, the initial infractions seemed too minor to end an entire life built together. I could go on. People don’t know what it’s like to be a frog in boiling water until they jump out of the pot and say “wow, that pot of water was a really shitty place to be.”
Am I REALLY being demeaned and lied too or are they always Ina bad mood???
I mean, really it’s both, right? They are always in a bad mood because of some imagined infraction of the chump. Their anger is – at least to them – justified. Chumps are beneath them, and the FW’s inherent entitlement to constant satisfaction is their birthright, blessed by the cosmos, because of their superior status. What is “fair” in a relationship, as determined by the worldview of a narcissist, is “whatever they want, whenever they want it.”
I have always said that I never read about the history of an evil person who didn’t think they were the true victim.
It didn’t help that my ex, like so many other FWs, is a charming person who everyone seems to like. She has lots of friends and supporters, whereas I’m more quiet and introverted. In the divorce game, whether we like it or not, there is a struggle for image management. I can’t tell you how many times I thought to myself “FW will win the battle of public opinion if I leave over a text, because 1) she is likeable, and 2) she is not bound by pesky things like ‘the truth’ or ‘objective reality.'” I was waiting for that gotcha “proof” that not even she could deny. I finally got it, but I wasted precious years getting there. In hindsight, it was not worth the wait.
At some point, as you say in your analogy above, there is a time where you have to escape the POW camp, because even if you get shot trying to escape, that would be better than sticking around for the torture.
Then, someone hands you a copy of LACGAL, and it’s like your head lifts out of the fog for the first time.
This this is it!!!!!🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️
I think paralysis can be very, very normal for chumps. It’s very important not to shame yourself for feeling it.
Just think of what a chump travels through: betrayal, emotional abuse, gaslighting, mindfuckery and often for very sustained periods of time. It’s not a ‘normal’ environment to be living (surviving) in. Not by a very long way.
No wonder paralysis is one option for psychological survival. I really do think it’s like being a WW1 soldier locked down in the muddy trenches and having no idea when it will all end…
Paralysis is an alternative to flight or fight, when the latter two don’t feel like options.
There’s historical footage of soldiers and POWs as they emerged from their trench or prison: bewildered, slow moving, shocked. That’s what being a chump is. It’s like a slow motion nightmare that seems (only seems I promise !!) like there is no way out.
With my first ex Fuckwit I was like a sad, broken (paralysed) ghost for a number of years.
With my second (most recent ex fuckwit) less so. And only because of what I’d learnt the first time round. It wasn’t for want of his trying though. He only left the house one month ago (ah good sweet riddance) after lurking and living here for 20 months as we were separated under the same roof.
My thoughts on managing the paralysis?
– give yourself permission to feel it. “It’s ok that I’m feeling like this. It’s to be expected, I’m like a foot soldier who’s become unwittingly caught in a war zone. I’m going to need to take very good care of myself. This is not a normal situation and that’s why I’m feeling like this.
– write a to do list for all the little things so that you’re always taking baby steps. I used to write half hour micro lists so that I was always moving forward in small ways: “brush teeth/have shower/make my cereal”
– see professionals (strong, feisty ones) who can take action for you. A therapist, a tenacious lawyer. Let them do some of the heavy lifting for you. That’s what they’re there for.
– do the gorgeous, delicious things (no matter how tiny and modest) that make you feel the opposite of paralysed – That remind you of the ‘you of you’ a favourite friend, book, creative pursuit, cologne, colour, work task…
– read here, very often
– a bit paradoxically, tell yourself that you are going to ‘make haste slowly’ bit bit, step by step and day by day. You are going to cocoon and nurture yourself into a rebirthed new life, gently and measuredly – each morning (over the past 20 months) as I was waking up, I would tell myself “it’s ok and you’re going to be ok and I’m going to to be taking steady care of you like a newborn baby”
That’s how I wanted to picture myself and my relationship with myself.
I love this advice as a person who has struggled with depression. You need to let your mind heal, but the practical advice of making simple to-do lists can work wonders – and I mean simple, like: 1) make a to-do list, 2) empty the dishwasher, 3) take a break. First, with depression, as with so many injuries, some light movement can be good for you. Second, you get a little drip of endorphins knowing that you accomplished something. Third, focusing on a little tiny goal helps prevent you from doing the worst thing you can do when you are depressed – broadening your gave to the entirety of how messed up everything is. Do a little thing, then do another one, and do that again over 100 days, and 100 little tiny goals will add up to a big accomplishment – feeling like maybe the world won’t spin off its axis.
It took me 3 years to untangle my body and very life from each cheater. The ending were so traumatic and the D DAYS so horrific in the discovery there was no option. Let me use CL
Rocky story in a different way. Staying with a cheater is like being In a POW torture camp. Every day you are tortured and left passed out in the mud. But these sadist are feeding you, bringing you letters from home but they are locking you up in prison and the torture resumes DAILY. After awhile many give up, otheras die others try making friends with their abusers.. Then there are those that see the break in the gate, they see when the guards sleep and they know the torture WILL NOT STOP. They know the truth. So they construct a plan because hey know there are partisans in the woods waiting for them to make the break. They will not be alone. Ok no more sex with their abusers, family times changed, life altered…but the relief and loss of a life in a PRISON CAMP and FREEDOM from ABUSE is worth the escape. Im a liviing witness of 2 mighty esapes and a life i cherish SOLO.
All good. I think sometimes a small part of it is we don’t want to be the one who lost. The rejection thing. I kind of envy the women whose husbands threw (ok said they threw) the ow away and chose the wife. At least then you can then reject them.
I did eventually get to reject my ex, but it was only on the surface, he was only trying to destabilize me, he didn’t really want me back. He was going to marry the whore come hell or high water, and hell and high water followed him for all the rest of his life. (from the book of Susie).
I suspect that I stayed with Ex-Mrs LFTT (and her behaviour towards me and the kids was terrible even before we found out about the cheating) because, firstly, I was in denial about how bad things were and, secondly, because I couldn’t visualise a way of getting myself and the kids out of the situation intact …. and there was no way that I was walking out of the situation and leaving my kids behind.
In a way, her getting caught cheating was a “get out of jail free” card for the kids and I; she took her opportunity to be with her AP (even though she denied the affair) and the kids stayed with me. In the end, the trash took itself out, I just wish that it had done so sooner.
LFTT
I was told by a lawyer friend that it might potentially boost my chances of getting full custody– or at least reduce FW’s ability to retaliate by taking custody from me– if I could prove cheating so she recommended I get the evidence.
I’m starting to think the answer to the question of what paralyzes many chumps and makes them hesitate to leave cheaters might boil down to a mathematical formula based on very recent statistical risk assessments related to coercive control and the rather justifiable fear of post-separation abuse this generates.
Personally I think that a lot of the emotional abuse chumps describe in the “DARVO” stages of cheating fits or comes very close to the definition for coercive control which in turn predicts post-separation abuse– i.e., that the abuse will get worse if the victim tries to leave. How much worse is anyone’s guess but forensic researchers are coming pretty close to estimating relative risk. Coercive control has been called the “golden thread” in domestic homicide risk assessment because it’s the only factor that’s consistently predictive across all forms of domestic abuse. If it’s going on– with or without physical violence– risk rises. I don’t know what the exact percentage of elevated risk for lethal violence is when coercive control is a factor just that this has been officially estimated and is concerning enough that several countries and states have either created criminal or civil statutes to protect victims and their children or are currently considering legislation.
Anyone aware of how slow legislation (not to mention enforcement) has been to catch up to the realistic dangers of domestic violence will be aware that those statistics had to be pretty solid for lawmakers to stop dragging their feet. And here’s my take on statistics: In any evolutionary sense, I think something that is eventually proven to be a statistical risk in association with human behavior only confirms what our own hardwired lizard brain “risk assessment faculties” probably picked up on and reacted with fear to all along whether– again– we’re conscious of the fear or descend into Stockholm syndrome and pretend it’s not happening.
So I think that, whether consciously acknowledged or not, gut-level anticipation that many cheaters will commit post-separation abuse is probably a factor in paralysis for a lot of people. I think it matters because, by that logic, any preparation that victims make to offset and reduce the risk of post-separation abuse would probably start to incrementally melt the paralysis.
But to do this, most victims would have to face the fear of something that society and legal authorities are only beginning to acknowledge as a risk. No social or legal acknowledgement = little protection= more risk. For this and many other reasons, I think it’s an even harder possibility for victims to face than being cheated on because of the statistical possibility that post separation abuse could escalate in a lethal way.
In fact, I suspect many victims’ denial of cheating may actually be predicated on fear of post-separation abuse a lot of the time. On the emerging theory that domestic violence is often motivated by the enforcement of one-sided monogamy and the statistical fact that most abusers tend to operate on a “beat by need” basis (in other words, abusers may never be violent until victims’ resist on a level that the particular abuser finds intolerable), avoiding revelations that may drive victims to confront cheaters about infidelity and which may, in turn, get the ball rolling inexorably towards separation makes a certain sense from a raw survival standpoint. If it’s initially too overwhelming for most people to face the possibility of cheating, it’s logical to imagine how much more overwhelming it is to face the idea that the person closest to you might kill you or, oops, facilitate your death in some way or thwart the survival of children.
I’ve brought this up before: Dr. Christine Cocciola– a former chump herself and expert on coercive control who studied with the late Evan Stark and continues his legislative campaign to criminalize coercive control and create legal protections for victims and their children — writes and presents a lot about post-separation abuse.
In my opinion, if someone experiences an escalation of abuse from the moment they indicate any desire to leave or, once they do leave, post-separation abuse, it’s enough proof that a) they were subjected to coercive control and b) they always knew on a gut level that post-separation abuse was looming and that anticipatory fear might fully explain any paralysis or hesitation that came before.
Even if it doesn’t happen following separation, this doesn’t necessarily mean it couldn’t have and may only be due to random deterring circumstances– like a victim hiring a particularly effective lawyer or other people exerting influence. Again, just as many chumps know in our guts yet initially shrink from the terrible revelation that partners are cheating, I think survivors always know in their guts that the same person who, at the very least, could expose them to potentially deadly STDs and filch assets might be capable of thwarting their survival or their children’s in other ways as well.
But I’m getting the impression that most cheaters commit many other overt forms of abuse beyond secret endangerment and stealth embezzling.
For me, post-separation abuse a new term if not exactly a new concept. But my former understanding of it was only in the context of direct violence, not emotional and psychological coercion and control which is what Evan Stark felt was the problem with how domestic abuse is perceived– that the public, legal authorities and even victims themselves think that, if mistreatment doesn’t include fists and firearms, it isn’t “really” abuse, that it isn’t sufficiently terrifying to generate traumatic stress and Stockholm syndrome and that it couldn’t become suddenly lethal if there hadn’t been a progressive buildup of physical threats and assault. Stark admits to once assuming the same thing but after thirty, forty years of interviewing survivors as a forensic psychologist and spearheading the shelter movement, he and his wife Anne Flitcraft discovered most survivors cited emotional and psychological abuse and control to be the most devastating and paralyzing aspect of abuse even more than physical assault.
I’m sure not every chump feels they were subjected to coercive control. But of the people who don’t feel this fits their circumstances, how many are actually suffering from “betrayal blindness” (arguably an aspect of Stockholm syndrome) or just lack the information or social support to be able to recognize ways in which they’re being controlled and coerced? That denialism may represent an even bigger blind spot than going into denial over cheating simply because the bigger the threat, the more tendency there is for human beings to shut down and play possum.
My FW was very abusive verbally/emotionally/mentally. Super jealous and controlling. We were together over 20 years and the cheating was exposed 4 years ago. We are just now going through the divorce process. I stayed despite the abuse 20+ years. First, he wasn’t always yelling. When he was good, things were great. And he went back and forth, Jekyl and Hyde. But there was an underlying thought process for me that I didn’t fully articulate, which makes your comment resonate so hard with me, I thought “I can’t leave. If this is how he treats me when I’m his partner and his best friend, what would he do if I became his actual enemy by leaving”?
He had an affair, and his plan was to leave me for her. But that fizzled just as he was moving out, a year ago. Then he wanted reconciliation, I refused and now he claims my unwillingness to try reconciliation is what ended the marriage, not his abusive personality and 6 year affair. (I found out 3 years in)
Once he moved out, he started dating on the apps. But he still was constantly around me. He didn’t want to lose me as his “friend/family”. We have kids, so we spent holidays together as a family. Family dinners. Holiday celebrations with extended family. All to show the world how amicably we were handling our split. It was not good for my healing. I am currently no more healed than the day he moved out a year ago. But if I didn’t participate in this “we are best friends narrative”, he’d get mad and I’ve spent 2 decades being scared to anger him. (I’m now in therapy to deal with my own FOO issues that strongly contributed to my being this way)
He’s also spent the last year accusing me of dating. I’m not. I’m not interested. I may never want to date again. Yet, I’ve dealt with so many rages from him over the past year when he gets it in his head that I might be. He has been dating all this time, told me about some of these dates, had an affair AND currently has a gf of 3 months that he said is very serious and he is planning a future with. He can do all that, and then rage text me for hours if he THINKS I am possibly talking to other men. All to say he is not reasonable, logical or mentally stable when it comes to these topics)
I am hoping that when the ink is dry on our divorce and all the matters are settled, like custody/house (things he can hold over my head currently if I displease him) I can go no contact beyond stuff that pertains to the kids. But I am really scared, because he isn’t going to be ok with that and the whole “when she is leaving is the most dangerous time “scenario”. Sure, he moved out a year ago, but I didn’t kick him out. I wanted him to leave, but I had to wait for him to do so voluntarily. So really, me going no contact is the real “leaving” for me.
I waffle between thinking he’d never do anything seriously bad to me, and realizing that a lot of dead women probably thought the same. I basically just have to take a stance of what “hope for the best and prepare for the worst”?
“I waffle between thinking he’d never do anything seriously bad to me, and realizing that a lot of dead women probably thought the same. I basically just have to take a stance of what “hope for the best and prepare for the worst”?” — me too ): what is wrong with these men???! Really, what is wrong with them??!
Your story is the reason I think coercive control needs to be universally criminalized. Your ex belongs in jail and you and your kids should get combat pay. I’m guessing that only then could you begin to really heal or even envision a possible future for yourself. But right now there’s no “post” anything– no “post” trauma but ongoing trauma, no “post” separation because you’re still stuck holding a tiger by the tail.
It’s like we’re living in the dark ages that anyone has to live like this and I’m really sorry this is happening to you. I know it’s a cliche to say it’s not you’re fault but it’s really not– at ALL. You wrote: “I’m now in therapy to deal with my own FOO issues that strongly contributed to my being this way.” I know that’s the prevailing social view of abuse– that victims’ childhoods somehow “prime” them for abuse or captor bonding. But please bear in mind that the paralysis and experience of captor bonding you’re describing can happen even to rigorously trained intelligence professionals– even those who had perfectly happy childhoods– if they’re captured and subjected to certain stressors with or without physical violence. Also bear in mind that several preeminent domestic violence experts have stated that the techniques used by professional interrogators and torturers to induce “learned helplessness” and captor bonding in political captives are virtually indistinguishable from the methods used by domestic abusers. The fact that these methods work on virtually everyone is the reason intelligence agents are never given whole parcels of state secrets and only bits and pieces– because it’s expected that everyone will crack like a pinata in those circumstances and eventually spill everything they know. It’s also the reason that agents who are released from captivity are routinely deprogrammed because the fact that they even survived strongly suggests they experienced Stockholm syndrome and bonded with their captors to the extent that captor bonding actually works to promote survival.
That’s precisely why the capacity to captor bond is theorized to be hardwired in all humans– because it’s incredibly effective. Even if that mechanism sometimes outlives it’s usefulness in the case the cage door is sprung but the captive still doesn’t escape, it doesn’t mean it served no purpose, just that abuse tactics are powerful enough for the effects to linger. Moreover, the survival mechanism of captor bonding probably goes back to our chimp-like ape ancestors whose survival depended on their ability to bond with and appease violent alphas.
I promise there’s a point to bringing up the above monkey stuff but, before I ramble on about it, I should really take a pause and qualify that this isn’t meant as an evolutionary alibi for abuser since we’ve evolved in different ways than chimps and have free will. Aside from committing rape and battering, chimps also routinely commit infanticide and cannibalism and no one’s rationalizing those behaviors in humans. But it does fit with the idea that abusers were typically raised in dysfunctional environments that likely closely resembled rapey ape feudal rule and, accordingly, their capacity for love and actual loyalty are also similarly devolved, changeable, unreliable and more apelike than human. Furthermore, it fits with the idea that the only form of “love” that abusers are able to inspire in others is fear-induced monkey captor bonding– even in victims who would otherwise be capable of actual love.
I guess the good news for survivors is that, unlike actual love, the captor bonded monkey form will only last as long as the abuser still wields menacing monkey power. Unfortunately, while victims are still in danger, they’ll be prone to psychologically “bond” with abusers– or else. To the extent that those who wield violent power have an almost telepathic ability to detect the merest whiff of insincerity in their subjects, the subordinate ruse of bonding/appeasing works much better if subordinate individuals believe in their hearts that they “deeply love” their masters. But the fact that this seeming loyalty can be just a ruse and survival tactic among chimps (and human captives) and not “real love” is the lightning speed with which formerly groveling beta chimps will suddenly attack and kill an alpha to take its place the second the alpha shows weakness or loses support of their key lackeys.
This doesn’t mean the betas in the above scenario were harboring sneaky disloyal thoughts all along (animals don’t “scheme” or act out elaborate deceptions beyond briefly dissembling passivity before attack according to primatologists) though it suggests that this capacity to suddenly shed captor bonding is also hardwired in an evolutionary sense and humans may carry that latent tendency.
The above might explain why alphas (and human abusers) who manage to sustain power for long periods are so uncannily attuned to signs of disloyalty and will punish underlings who don’t kiss the ring passionately enough (and why your ex is so keenly attuned to whether you’re dating or even thinking about it). But those subordinates who do kiss the ring with heartfelt passion might get a little extra monkey meat, banana and amnesty because the most effective alphas– just like the most effective professional interrogators and batterers– actually require a degree of “empathy” in order to gauge how best to spellbind and “break” their subjects through intermittent reward and punishment (Pavlovian shock box stuff). But this in turn makes captors/alphas/abusers susceptible to cross-bonding with their own captives and therefore showing a bit more mercy.
Anyway, the reason I’m rattling all this off is that, while evolutionary and forensic scientists and the psychotrauma specialists who “deprogram” military intelligence agents are fully aware of all the above principles and theories, all of that cutting edge knowledge is typically thrown out the window when it comes to treating domestic abuse survivors. For instance, nobody asks former intelligence captives what in their childhoods made them “attracted” to enemy interrogators or hesitate to escape. But, unlike former intelligence hostages, abuse victims are usually viewed through this “two to tango” lens– the idea that some preexisting psychological deficit due to FOO issues acted like a voodoo tractor beam either drawing the victim to abuse or drawing abusers to them and also keeping them entrapped. In a sense, DV victims are reduced to the level of apes and it’s assumed that something fucked up in their natures “predisposes” them to behave according to monkey rule rather than understanding that we ALL have this latent tendency to fall in line when entrapped in an ape-like violent hierarchy.
That’s not to say that family of origin issues can’t complicate escape from abuse or that it isn’t healthy to eventually review those things. But the main reason victims become entrapped in abuse is because the tactics used by abusers are universally very effective and bad enough to induce captor bonding in even the strongest people and society doesn’t do enough to protect victims. In fact, statistically speaking, victims of abuse are no more likely to have had bad childhoods than the general population so the principle shouldn’t be assumed of all survivors. Furthermore, according to DV expert Lenore Walker, victims may even statistically skew towards higher than average pre-abuse self esteem which suggests at the very least that abusers vary in their taste in prey, with some liking easy marks and some preferring the challenge of fabulous, confident “big game.”
I guess all this is a way of saying that you probably did what you had to do and no one should be Monday morning quarterbacking your past actions, especially not while the scary game is ongoing. Or, for a better analogy, maybe five or ten or twelve years ago when the rampaging bear was trying to maul you, you should have veered right instead of left or maybe jumped into the river instead of climbing a tree. Maybe that even goes back to lack of swimming lessons in childhood. But it was all a gamble and it’s amazing that anyone could keep their wits while batting away all those fangs and claws. Furthermore, the bear is still stalking.
In short I think the proof your timing and actions were probably for the best is that you and your kids are still alive to tell about it, not to mention deserving of credit for taking the massive first step of divorcing a rampaging bear/ape/whatever.
Thank you, so much.
The holding a tiger by the tail is so accurate. That has been my life for 20+ years, but it has amplified over the last 4 with D-Day and now divorce proceedings. Only a few people know the full story, and they are my closest friends. They get it, I am holding that tail and swinging that tiger in circles to keep the teeth/claws at bay. People that don’t know how this progressed would wonder why I don’t just drop the tail, and run.
He moved out a year ago, and that lead to so much more peace than I had while he lived here, so I was appreciating what I had. But he was still so present in my life. And I “allowed” it. I went along with the joint holidays, and family dinners, and him being around a lot. “Allowed” is a funny word. Because I certainly didn’t feel like I had a choice, and in fact.even though I did all of that, he’d still complain if he felt like I wasn’t as engaged as he’d like. He wanted me to remain his best friend. He wanted me available as a friend and I assume he wanted the image management that it would provide. After all he can’t possibly have been an abusive cheater if things were SO amicable.
And I knew that at some point, we would would actually divorce and I wanted that part to be as conflict-free as possible. In the meantime, he didn’t want to START the divorce. He thought things were fine as they were. Of course he would. He still had so much control over me. I could have just gotten a lawyer and filed myself whether he agreed or not. But again, years of conditioning and plenty of fear over what he could actually DO to make the divorce harder on me, kept me from making that assertive move. I waited until he was agreeable to it. (Luckily, he has a new gf and as much as he STILL would prefer to not legally divorce, I think he is planning to marry her and he can’t do that while still married to me. OR perhaps he knows the divorce is inevitable and if he does it now, he can tell her it was for her)
My mom walked on eggshells to appease my angry father, so I think I normalized that behavior to an extent, but you are right, I think he could have bamboozled nearly anyone whether they had that background or not. I can’t even remember how it started. But it wasn’t on day one. And it was a slow process.
It’s so hard to be in this situation. I’ve been afraid of him for a very long time, but it was never a fear of physical danger because he has never laid a finger on me. And deep down I don’t think he will. Which puts me in this odd position of “don’t spend every moment terrified he will- but also, don’t blow it off like he won’t. Be wary.” I took the MOSAIC test and the score was 8. Not confidence-inducing. And yet, my kids spend time alone with him. I don’t fear that he would harm them. But I do fear that I’ll be wrong NOT to have worried.
It’s hard to look forward to the future when you can’t see how it could possibly be any better. I’m so afraid he will be worse after the divorce. But at least I am trying. I know staying wasn’t going to get any better.
Maybe you inherited your mother’s primal extra-sensitivity to threat and danger but that doesn’t mean either of your liked, sought, “allowed” or “manifested” abuse. Maybe in a better world that primal sensitivity would make you a very talented horse-whisperer, hummingbird-cinematographer or landmine-deactivator. But in this imperfect, shitty world, it left you skinless to the intimidation tactics of a coercive controller.
Again, considering that roughly 40% of domestic homicides weren’t preceded by previous reports of physical abuse (cases in point, Chris Watts and Scott Peterson) and coercive control is the only reliable predictor, I don’t think you were wrong to brace even if the peanut gallery tells you the river was better the tree or veering right would have been better than left.
Perhaps in hindsight you could have made different choices without negative consequences and some would certainly say you had all the more reason to leave earlier. But no one has a crystal ball, particularly not people who are even half a step removed from the situation. Because abusers typically only drop their masks behind closed doors, only the victim is actually catching vibes, barely tangible gesture warfare cues and lizard brain signals of risk and danger. Only the victim really knows what state their financial and emotional resources are in and whether these are sufficient to survive a post-separation death match or win an abuser’s retaliatory battle to steal custody of children.
And, rather than being “clouded by FOO issues,” maybe some survivors who grew up with abuse are actually more attuned to how bad things can potentially get if they resist. I remember there was even a study about this– how domestic abuse survivors who’d grown up with abuse were actually better at evading severe violence, more likely to survive than those with picture postcard childhoods and more likely to successfully escape.
Because of all these fun facts and stats, whenever anyone would exclaim something like “If she’d left ten years ago, she’d still be alive!” about a domestic homicide victim, the director of the advocacy program I worked for used to say out of the side of her mouth “Or she could have been dead ten years ago.” She’d also remind volunteers that if they felt like foisting directives at victims to “just leave” before victims had ducks in a row, they should also offer their services as 24/7 Secret Service bullet-stoppers and be prepared to fund victims and their children in moving to undisclosed locations and fronting them until they could get jobs.
From what I saw in victim advocacy, virtually all batterers cheat so that colors my view of cheating as part and parcel with abuse. In itself, cheating is a panic-inducing red flag and threat that worse could be looming which is why cheating is often the “last straw” for domestic violence survivors, but not for the reasons that most idle bystanders assume. Most bystanders (and, unfortunately, a lot of poorly-trained helping professionals) think that domestic abuse victims are only driven to leave upon discovering cheating because they’re possessive of abusers (due to… “masochism”) and fear being alone for blah blah internalized patriarchy blah blah reasons. But from what I saw, victims of both violent assault or “subviolent” coercive control understood that their captors’ “mercy” was based on their sexual utility. Once abusers indicated that victims were sexually replaceable, it meant the gloves were coming off and the already intolerable abuse was about to ramp up to God knows what level.
“But from what I saw, victims of both violent assault or “subviolent” coercive control understood that their captors’ “mercy” was based on their sexual utility. Once abusers indicated that victims were sexually replaceable, it meant the gloves were coming off and the already intolerable abuse was about to ramp up to God knows what level.”
I swear so much of the research you’ve come across was in my head just organically, which I suppose is exactly what the research supports!! I didn’t think of it in quite so concrete terms. There was just always an overall sense of “it’s safer to stay on his team, than to leave and be his actual enemy” or “If this is how he treats me when I am his “beloved wife”, what would he do if I was on his BAD side?” My feelings did not specifically tie it to my use to him sexually— or more so, I didn’t think of it in those terms. Though my overall use to him as an appliance included sex, of course. And he cares a lot about sex. So it all just fits.
Has anyone figured out how to leave safely if they are in a position like mine where he hasn’t done anything physically and they are just worried he could? The divorce is ongoing, we are working out terms currently. My concern is the more control he loses, the angrier he could possibly get. I feel a bit like I am just sitting here waiting to see *if* he gets violent or not.
I’m adding some security features to my home. And if anything at all happens, I am ready to treat it seriously. For example, I wouldn’t hesitate to call the police if I felt unsafe. I’ve considered alternate ways out of my house. I’ve taken note of makeshift weapons in various rooms.
To be clear, nothing he has done so far has ever made me feel the need to implement any of this. This is entirely a situation where I’m just aware that on-physical abuse can escalate drastically in these types of situations.
Once the divorce is signed, he can’t control me easily. There are terms I want and once it’s signed, for better or worse, the terms will be set. That is going to be a huge loss of control for him. And I really think he is painfully aware of it. I think that is why he put off the actual legal aspects of divorce for so long. Without the courts, I was at his mercy. i had to play nice,or he could force the sale of the house or any number of things. I won’t have to worry about that aspect anymore. Also, I’m likely to get spousal support. And he is not going to be ok with that. So the combo of him losing control of me, and being made to give up money? Those seem like big triggers.
Is my best bet to simply be aware, be vigliant and take any hints of danger seriously?
A scientist whose name I forget once said that “facts tend to cluster around a good theory.” Over the years, certain theories on dv that initially felt organically true as you put it just keep “gathering facts” like sticky lint rollers. One example is the suspicion that domestic violence is mostly motivated by enforcing one-sided monogamy and all that entails– an abuser getting sex on demand or being able to fuck around while the victim is terrorized and brainwashed into remaining monogamous “or else.” In other words, dv as all-purpose sex crime– protracted rape as well as enforcement of rape by deception.
The “protracted” part is the added mindfuck which makes domestic abuse victims distrust intuition, something one dv expert termed “perspecticide.” Basically abuse may appear temporally unrelated to victims’ failure to sexually appease or victims may not know about the cheating going on which is driving the abuser to be more abusive as a means of doubling down on the enforcement of victims’ monogamy and rape by deception (by destroying self esteem so the victim is too broken to resist or “move on,” by making the victim too afraid to ask or even conceive whether they’re being cheated on, etc).
Of course asking abusers why they’re abusing is a waste of time since they’re never going to admit to sexual control/protracted rape/rape by deception as a motive. Disguising this is arguably the whole reason their enforcement is made to seem unrelated– because they want to tell themselves and others that victims complied of their own free will and they demand that victims believe this too. It’s not unrelated to how many stranger rapists deludedly think victims “love” them except domestic abusers take steps to bolster delusions with the appearance of supporting evidence. It’s really all so they don’t look like rapists or feel like rapists… while still committing it.
I think the mindfuck aspect of it makes it not only confusing for victims but scarier which is exactly why horror films often use the device of ambiguity to crank up the terror. For instance, the first time a raptor gets loose in Jurassic Park, we only see the poor dinosaur wrangler from the waist up and see his expression as he’s levitated off the floor and can only imagine what’s happening to his lower body behind the cage.
But statistics can tell us what’s going on behind the cage, confirms what our guts and imaginations sense and takes some of the ambiguity out of it. Twenty years ago there wasn’t much science clearly supporting the idea of dv as enforcement of one-sided monogamy but now the research seems to be catching up. It’s only a tiny logical leap from there to guess that coercive control has the same MO except it’s just less athletic to carry out than physical assault and has less risk of prison in places that haven’t yet criminalized CC. Then it’s only another tiny logical leap from there to see the sexual MO in CC as a statistical harbinger of homicide since sexual abuse in a relationship is a quantifiable lethality risk factor. That’s one skein that’s worth untangling since it can predict risk in post-separation abuse and help victims prepare accordingly.
So when you ask, “Is my best bet to simply be aware, be vigilant and take any hints of danger seriously?”, you’re asking “Is the hamster dead (is your ex one of those coercive controllers who become violent for the first time when killing a former victim)? Or is it only sleeping (are you getting worked up over nothing)?”
Here’s my not very mathematical equation when the risk is death or serious injury especially in a situation where there are psychological and social factors pressuring us to lower our guard:
Gut feeling + statistical risk aligning with gut feeling= batten the hatches and prepare for the worst and don’t feel one bit bad about overcorrecting against pressure to deny risk in the case nothing happens.
I mean one shouldn’t feel even a teeny tiny bit bad for erring on the side of caution because the pressures to pretend the hamster is sleeping are massive when emerging from abuse. Recent victims really have to overcorrect for it.
Actually I remember a better analogy for repressing gut intuition of risk than dead hamsters: hypothermia. A lawyer friend who’s a national activist against the deadly use of restraint and seclusion in schools against disabled children was talking about how one of the problems in protecting kids is that parents are socially and instituionally gaslighted into minimizing the risk as well as having a normal aversion to imagining the worst when it comes to their kids.
Imagining a child dying is like looking into the sun– can’t be done without going blind. So parents might see signs their child is being abused in school– bruises or changes in behavior– but, according to my friend, a lot of parents react by going into a kind of floaty, dopey trance. She imitated the typical singsongy “la dee dah” voice of people who are in the throes of trancing out. I told her I thought it sounded like hypothermia where people lost in the howling tundra start feeling sleepy and tell themselves “Oh I’ll just lie down in this snowdrift for a second to rest…” and then freeze to death because feeling sleepy is actually a symptom of hypothermia. In other words, just the fact you’re feeling unreal or tranced out or eerily calm is confirmation that your intution is screaming and danger is afoot. From then on, she used that analogy to explain to parents how their guts may signal danger to their kids: “When you feel like you’re falling asleep in the snow.”
I suspect that, among the domestic abuse victims who end up being killed after escaping, some probably knew it was coming though didn’t have the resources to protect themselves but many were also thinking “He’d never do that…” Of those who think this, a portion would have have been sublimating a gut feeling under real or anticipated social pressure not to appear to be overreacting. In other words, they basically died of ambiguity and false shame. They lay down in the snow drift.
Though the same people wouldn’t feel silly or embarrassed if, say, they made their kids wear seat belts on a drive to the store and then didn’t have an accident or if they slowed the car to a crawl in dense fog and realized later they were totally alone on the road and there was little risk, I think it’s the fact that the risk related to abuse comes in the form of a person– and that acknowledging that risk requires imagining the worst of someone who, for a long time, would severely punish any criticism. Similarly, parents of disabled kids sense the scary power crappy teachers wield over their disabled children and there’s a tendency to freeze and fawn lest a crappy teacher get miffed over suspicions of being crappy and take it out on the child. Waffling over the issue of whether the risk is real may reflect a lingering wisp of Stockholm syndrome– fear of “thinking unambiguously disloyal thoughts” about an abusive person because of the risk that abusers will telepathically sense this and punish.
Furthermore, abused women are always dangling on the brink of being called cranks and nuts by bystanders so it feels very precarious to prepare for a violent threat that doesn’t happen. Being cast as a nut can even have real consequences like losing critical social support, employment or child custody. Last but not least, acknowledging the risk can involve “bothering” law enforcement who very often subtly wet-blanket victims’ pleas for protection or outright threaten to charge victims with filing false reports in the case the perceived threat doesn’t manifest immediately.
Then of course is the usual functional denialism that allows people to even drive on the freeway to work every day in spite of the considerable risk of fatal crashes. Humans tend to deny mortality in the first place just to get through the day.
So I say go ahead and think those disloyal thoughts, buckle up and just give a cheer if nothing does happen. There are things it’s lovely to be wrong about– yay, yay. Then re-batten the hatches because, given all the above factors, the feeling you mostly can’t trust at this point is the “hamster is just sleeping” impulse or the temptation to take a nap in a snowdrift, so, again, adjust accordingly.
To bolster resolve and fight back against perspecticide, it would help a lot to get feedback and support from organizations that specialize in coercive control but, if none exist locally, most battered women’s resources that don’t suck will be knowledgeable about coercive control and will still happily offer services and support to people who are “merely” suffering psychological abuse. Even if there are no concrete local resources, there are national organizations.
Absolutely I knew I had to keep my fears to myself because he appeared completely rational to everyone but me and I would lose credibility and appear paranoid. (And then he would use the accusation against me. ) So I had to assess the risk and appropriate levels of caution by myself. I really hesitated to go to law enforcement, to tell people in my circle about my fears, because I imagined how it would sound and appear to others. My husband also was never violent, but I felt in my gut it was in order to protect himself legally, and if he could have physically gotten rid of me, he would have. He works in television and at the time he left he made a short true-crime documentary about a guy who murdered his wife and got away with it for thirty years. I didn’t know he was working on that story at the time and when I found out about it, it chilled my blood. It was what he wished he could do to me! So I had to decide what the odds were that he would act on his wishes. It was awful and I am still nervous he or someone he hired is going to show up at the house one day, three years later.
I remember you recounting your ex’s work on that documentary and agree that it’s totally chilling.
I can also attest that being cast as a “crazy prevaricator” can have deadly consequences and some blameshifting smear campaigns can’t be ignored. It’s also hard to stop detractors (usually a perpetrator’s flying monkeys) from “living in your head” when they’re actually following you into parking lots. Try banishing someone from your thoughts when they’re swinging fists at you.
Years ago this is why I also sued on top of prosecuting a workplace stalker in order to have a permanent, publicly searchable record in the case the creep ever tracked me down again and/or in the case the perp’s claims that I was a “crazy liar who framed innocent men” followed me professionally or put a “rape me/beat me” sign on my back for future freaks who might preemptively view the buzz as a get-out-of-jail card.
I also wasn’t being paranoid about the above risks because these things had already happened in the wake of the first arrest (one situation involved parking lot and swinging fists) and before the criminal stalking/attempted assault case had been resolved. The claim that I “framed innocent men” spread widely, affected work opportunities, I was bullied right and left and even threatened with assault twice more by coworkers who repeated the same “spurned suitor” pattern as the stalker because, due to the buzz, they relied on the idea that I’d been cast as a prevaricator. There was also a little message in there that when a freak tries to play rescuer to get laid, damsels in distress better not say no or else.
It was especially eerie that the above went on even after the perpetrator was re-arrested in a SWAT raid. You’d think eight two-hundred LB cops in riot gear carrying assault rifles might have been a slight deterrent but nope. Even if they never research prosecution statistics, it’s like there’s some stubborn communal consciousness lizard brain knowledge among freaks that those who assault women are only– in reality– found guilty in only about 1.5% of cases. It’s like they “feel” the statistical reality in the air and don’t bargain for exceptions. In any case, I could tell the perpetrator’s flying monkeys felt totally sure he’d be exonerated– until he wasn’t. It was only when the stalker was forced to take a plea that the flying monkey feeding frenzy stopped. But since, as a supposedly first time offender (he wasn’t, just hadn’t been previously busted), the perpetrator’s criminal record would eventually be expunged, I feared the situation would keep repeating itself in the future and I wanted it out there that I was telling the truth and willing to go to the wall to prove it.
I think the judge in the lawsuit meant well when she told my lawyer that I was suing “for catharsis.” It was a way of saying she could tell I wasn’t merely out for money even though the jury’s award was pretty big. But the judge missed the fucked up societal reason why I had to sue– because it’s victims who end up having to exonerate themselves to get the targets off their backs.
So, yeah, playing things for perceptions and telegraphing to all and sundry how la-dee-dah sane and balanced we are is a good strategy but shouldn’t stop us from taking action– however stealthily– to prepare for the worst because the smear campaigns will happen along with any related fallout even if the victim does nothing. You may not know it yet but your ex is likely already spinning a narrative against you to prime bystanders.
One of the most important things in being able to take action is surrounding ourselves with people who get it and who validate our feelings. If your ex is gathering numbers on his side, gather more on yours. In that sense you’re lucky because resources for coercive control are becoming more accessible and common. One hub to tap into is anything related to the work of Dr. Christine Cocciola. She has a Youtube channel, a website for survivors, another for practitioners, coaches and laypeople who want to train in recognizing coercive control or act as expert witnesses.
You may be able to find an online group, a specialist or even train as an “ally” because one of the most effective ways to surround yourself with a ton of allies is to be one. Some of the best support I’ve gotten when I found myself in trouble was through activists who worked on the same causes I did even if the cause didn’t appear related to the difficulty I was dealing with.
Plus if it became known that you were involved in coercive control channels, your ex might realize that, if anything happened to you, he’d be the #1 suspect. That’s another reason I think coercive control should be criminalized– because it will inform the lizard perceptions of perps and their proxies that society isn’t tolerating that shit anymore in the same way current low prosecution rates send the reverse message.
Hi HOAC, grateful for your insights, as always, thank you! Wow that is quite the story about your workplace stalker, I’m so sorry. I wonder what city you were in, my goodness! I hope you eventually did receive financial damages.
Early on, it struck me that if anything happened to me, I didn’t have anyone on my side who would be invested enough to pursue my ex, so I have tried to create a crumb trail in the unlikely event that I disappear like that poor woman in my husband’s documentary..
As I have learned from this wonderful site, my husband is like lots of fws and he started maligning me and promoting his false narrative well before he abandoned us — I suspect years before, now. His particular emotional genius appears to have been that he tailored his lies to resonate with each of his targets’ personal, unique sore spots — so, to my childhood friend who left her kids behind when she fled an unhappy marriage, he said that I was stopping him from seeing his children. She believed him utterly because he was appealing to her biggest emotional wound and it was an emotional, irrational response. BUT, to another male friend who only knew me slightly, he explained that he had to leave me because I was super-annoying! He told gay people I was homophobic, he told our Jewish friends I was anti-semitic… whatever would trigger them the most. I still don’t know exactly what he told his mother, but the one time I saw her after he left, she seemed petrified of me, so it must have been something extreme… He used his emotional intelligence to customize his stories to his audiences…
Not that I’d ever “thank” adversity or shitty people for “teaching” me things, but my stalking saga as an intern was an education in human darkness and bystander psychology which prepped me for other events like dealing with psycho inlaws and a FW. I mean you’re never really prepared for things like that but I think I was just a little less confused and less prone to buy into typical DARVO nonsense and victim-blaming because I’d learned about the concept of “neutralization”– the wild and crazy lies most serial offenders (including most serial killers) tell themselves and others to reduce the stigma of their offenses and dehumanize their victims.
Speaking of which, you wrote, “He used his emotional intelligence to customize his stories to his audience…”
I think in Germany there’s a specific, weird subcategory of borderline personality disorder which is described as doing this– “Haltlose personality disorder.” At least in German psychiatry, most child molesters are believed to have this disorder and it’s thought they’re more likely to be violent or even murderous or stage fake suicides.
If this personality pattern exists (the Wikipedia page on it seems like it was written by a doddering Victorian Freudian), I wonder if it relates to cheating or poaching because I went through another previous saga that kind of demystified my own FW drama a bit. It was also my first experience with DARVO and “neutralization”: Someone I went to school with who poached my first boyfriend used to do this tailored defamation thing. Or at least she thought she poached the boyfriend when, in reality, I was actually relieved since I’d moved away for school and this guy had become like an oppressive, guilt-inducing, passive aggressive loose end I didn’t know what to do with. He tried the silent treatment thinking I’d quit school and come scurrying back but instead I just– whoops– accepted the next date I was asked on and moved on. Though there was no formal breakup, he was suddenly engaged to this neighbor. It’s no defense of him but apparently she’d begun sidling up to him the second I left for school, told him I was fucking around, etc.
When I was invited to their speedy wedding, I was in the middle of loving life and having a fabulous time being young and free in NYC and every kind of silly, fun or interesting storybook nonsense was happening to me. I didn’t realize I was expected to show up at the wedding looking crushed and defeated instead of waltzing around like Julie Andrews in a field of mountain wildflowers and they both glared at me through the whole ceremony, then verbally attacked me afterwards.
At 17, I vaguely grasped they weren’t happy I was happy and I avoided them, even stopped sharing good news with people we knew in common because their resentment scared me and felt like a jinx. But it’s as if she in particular was trying to occupy my old life, attempting to befriend all my friends just as she’d always found ways to lurk around my ex and I when we’d been dating. Soon I started catching wind of the rumors she was spreading among everyone I knew back home. To religious types, she’d tell a bizarre story of how I’d tried to “force” someone to have an abortion (?). To men she’d say I was a whore or man-hater or lesbian because I was raised by feminists. To feminists she’d say I was (bingo) homophobic or that I used appearance and sex to get ahead. And on and on. When I’d go back home for the holidays, I noticed the chilly or hostile treatment I got from various people. But fuck it, my parents and close friends weren’t susceptible to the bs and I’d just go back to my fab life in the city and forget about it.
The marriage lasted only a few years and she pulled a very splashy fake suicide attempt at the end (took an insufficient overdose, cut her wrists the wrong way, smeared blood all over the walls). Then the ex-bf immediately wrote me a drunken, disgustingly sexual letter saying we could be together again at last. I resealed the thing and sent it back like it contained anthrax. And of course she went around telling everyone that I’d deliberately broken them up, that I wanted her dead and “hated” her because she “stole” a man from me. Gaah. I don’t know how I’d done all that while being out of contact with both of them for years but go figure.
Then she got knocked up twice by a professor who was apparently still involved with the mother of his other children. That didn’t work out. I heard years later that she was caught pilfering money and pills from an older relative and, when cut off financially, accused the relative of molesting her as a child, though curiously she’d constantly dump her kids with the same relative. She then reportedly used her kids to blackmail the relative into supporting her financially again. When the relative was fading away in a old age home, she reportedly charmed the staff to get him put on heavy, life-shortening sedatives without his consent so he’d be stoned enough to sign over power of attorney. In any event, she took over the estate and denied inheritance to her cousins and sibling who, by then, simply let her do it because she’d already ravaged the estate and because of her penchant for making up criminal allegations against anyone who crossed her. It seems the money ran out quickly and, last I heard, her youngest kid ended up doing a prison stint for felony stalking.
One of the creepiest things about this woman is that she continued trying to contact me over the years and would attempt to hoover back into my life or would go to great lengths to track down and try to cultivate people I knew but she didn’t. Because I was embarrassed to have any association with someone so crazy and chaotic, I was uncomfortable being forced to tell the backstory of why I avoided this woman like the plague. The whole thing was like a protracted Single White Female drama. I began to realize I was her real fixation, not the ex. She was also like napalm because, for reasons I could never figure out, a lot of people thought she was authentic and “really sweet” so she managed to keep showing up on the periphery of my life like a bad penny.
Here’s something I “learnt” from the bs, aside from the fact that I probably cracked down harder and faster on a workplace stalker and his flying monkeys because I realized people like this have no limits:
— Judge people by their enmeshments if they’re fully aware of how shitty the person they’re enmeshed with is (it’s a different story when someone doesn’t know). Like a nice-seeming person with an obviously vicious dog, the dog is really the unmasked version of its owner. Though FW didn’t appear to share traits with this woman at first, I now see it as a big red flag that his mother was uncannily similar to this woman in many ways (save for the larcenous bit and the fake suicide thing) and a big red flag that FW was enmeshed with his toxic mother. Since the affair partner was a dead ringer for FW’s toxic mommy (stumpy neck, giant lantern jaw, tendency to switch back and forth between dry, cold cyborg persona and giggly or weepy “widdle girl,” not to mention the psycho obsession with inventing and projecting demonic traits onto me), I realized that FW was not only acclimatized to but sought this type of woman as a toxic proxy and enforcer to express all the ugly inclinations he knew enough to conceal for years.
By the same token, it seems women like this are, in effect, taking the shape of weapons that are useful to men to enforce patriarchy.
In any event, the mask came off when he had a big rift with his mummy and he immediately ran out to find her exact replacement. Then whenever the affair partner would blackmail him with silent treatment and temporary breakups and he’d fear losing his replacement sock puppet, all the ugliness would suddenly spew directly out of him. He was basically Norman Bates who, without his mommy or mommy clone, had to dress up in mom drag to attack women himself. Fortunately no knives or showers were involved.
Other weird odds and ends I figured out:
— Cheating, like battering, seems to mostly be about masked dependency on a primary relationship and “fighting back” against that dependency on the belief the partner deliberately and cruelly fostered it and revels in the power they wield. It probably explains the confusing thing where cheaters often act like they’re getting revenge (for what?) and seem to revel in the power of it. Poaching seems to be about the victory of usurpation. Both seem to be reenacting some shit from childhood and it’s probably why those relationships tend to crash when the victim removes themselves or refuses to suffer enough. The suffering is what makes even butt ugly affair partners seem ravishing and makes orgasms extra tingly.
— Cheaters and poachers tend to have a quasi-Calvinist cult mentality whether this is expressed through periodic spates of fanatic religiosity or worshipful idealization of people they view as inherently transcendent. Though it’s harder to see when they’re in the stage of playing the humble beta or lackey role in life, on some level they are profoundly inegalitarian and seem to believe in something like the divine right of kings– the idea that some are born superior to others, probably to the extent they hope this lofty status will one day be granted to them. I think narcissim as a concept misses the fact this personality type is the psychological root of racism, sexism, classism, whateverism– hierarchical, about pecking order. It also misses the fact that so-called narcissists spend half their lives eating shit from bigger fish. I imagine finding a chump is meant as a break from all the shit-eating.
— Beware of women who radically switch back and forth between a normal adult voice and ootsie-wootsie simpering “baby voice” or fluttery girly voice. There’s probably some similarity between typical “Southern belle” switcheroo that a lot of women do to dodge and weave around patriarchy and psychopathic age-regression but people who do the latter get super defensive about it, either because they can’t control it or because the agenda underlying the behavior is too heinous and aggressive to admit.
— The usual “every accusation from a narcissist is a confession” thing but cheaters may also “displace” their proxies’ ugliness onto a partner. Pay particular attention to people who accuse you of trying or wanting to kill them because they probably harbor murderous thoughts towards you and/or whoever they’re enmeshed with does. I suspect part of why cheaters become so abusive is that affair partners are, by nature, pretty awful people which creates an extra serving of ugly traits to displace onto victims.
— Related to the above, –Cheaters and poachers have a lot of overlaps with that German profile thingy for creative defamatory prevaricators.
— Just because some petty detractor is powerless to actually harm you doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take note of the intent to do so because they can suddenly do real harm when you’re in a weakened position.
–Cheaters and poachers have a lot of overlaps with that German profile thingy for creative defamatory prevaricators.
— Only abusers actually “play” victim and tend to be good at it while actual victims hate being victims and are very bad at doing so. This is probably why many bystanders find the fakers more sympathetic than the real deals– because a faker is detached enough to both tailor the lie to the audience as well as give a tasteful performance– like letting one single tear fall elegantly down their cheek as they gently murmur out their tall tales of suffering woe while real victims are ugly crying or catatonic or babbling like loons.
LOL I have to stop telling the story of his piece about the guy who got away with murdering his wife. But I don’t think I’ve mentioned on here yet that more recently he produced and appeared in a movie with Pablo Escobar’s brother. Yes, that Pablo Escobar.
p.s., If you encounter a therapist who specializes in coercive control, they already understand why abuse survivors “didn’t leave earlier” because it’s part of the training to help victims understand the million and one intimidating cues and gestures that coercive controllers give off and part of the training to understand those cues and gestures aren’t just kidding around but equate to calculable risk. In fact if you express any shame about delaying your escape or what you “allowed,” someone genuinely versed will correct the notion that you were actually free to leave without risk of serious consequences and would instead commend you for the truly miraculous feat of escaping.
It’s such a radically different, humanizing view of survivors compared to the old, standard “takes two to tango” or psychological deficiency theory of DV victims which has been such a tremendous failure in helping victims leave over the years that Evan Stark and his wife Anne Flitcraft dedicated a chapter to explaining this failure in a book on PTSD (Post-traumatic Stress Therapy and the Victims of Violent Crime edited by Frank Ochberg which I highly recommend).
Thanks for the recommendations. In my case, I was legit completely taken by surprise when he abandoned us, a la Vikki Stark,and completely unaware of the coercive control dynamic in my marriage, it was very subtle and insidious.
I have not had any luck with therapists, counselors, or lawyers! Zero! I think it may be because I present as having it together…? I don’t know but I envy every person on here who has a therapist of lawyer who has their back. I have yet to meet one here in Montreal.
Better question is why did Traitor Ex stay?
He was unhappy….for ten years?!
He “loved me but was not in love with me?”
We were like roommates?
He had always been attracted to Asian women? (I am very clearly not Asian).
But he hung around with me for 27 years, lying to my face, hiding money from me the entire twenty years we were married, maintaining a secret sexual double life most likely the whole time.
Whatever the reasons I stayed, none of them were because I was a fraudulent deceptive cunning shifty shady sticky-fingered self-centered degenerate creep.
“Whatever the reasons I stayed, none of them were because I was a fraudulent deceptive cunning shifty shady sticky-fingered self-centered degenerate creep.”
Bears repeating.
I stayed because of religious guilt and fear for both myself and our kids. I was a SAHM who worked part-time to pay for the kids’ activities and field trips. I wasn’t optimistic that I would be able to be self-supporting again after being out of the workplace for a while. I already had reason to believe the divorce would be devasting because of conversations we had over his fifteen years of addiction and mental health issues. During those discussions, he clearly didn’t care how the kids and I would end up if we split. Ouch! Then, days or weeks later, he would apologize for being so horrible to me, and we’d go forward again. And again.
By the time we truly separated for good (#2), I was fed up with it all and refused to reconcile after we had been apart for a year. We divorced. The kids were in college, so there were no custody worries. I figured out how to support us and eventually bought another house after the oldest graduated from college.
I felt a lot of guilt over putting up with so much for so long, but it was all good because my kids didn’t have to navigate visitation. I figured out life post-divorce. Given how the divorce went, I would imagine that negotiating custody would have cost a fortune and been a problem for years for me and our children. But it wasn’t because we split later. Done!