Stay in Touch

Check out CL's Book

When You Need Cheater Twu Wuv to Fail

We’re all about Meh here at CN — that Promised Land of acceptance where the pain stops and you don’t really care what your cheater does any more, or with whom. That said, a lot of chumps wouldn’t mind an exit ramp to Schadenfreude.

“D-Day was 6 months ago and I’m fine… I just want the cheaters to break up. Tragically. Painfully. Like maybe someone dumps someone’s possessions from a 10th floor balcony or sets a car ablaze.”


“I don’t want him. I don’t care who he moves on with — JUST NOT HER. Really ANYONE but HER. I can’t bear the thought of my children being around her. If she so much as bakes a cupcake with them, there will be bloodshed.”


“Do they have to get married? WHY? Why are they getting new toasters and a trip to Lake Como while I’m here suffering? How come HE gets someone and I AM ALONE? Toaster-less!”

Self-pity isn’t a good look, chumps. I know it’s unjust — let me repeat that — I KNOW IT IS UNJUST. Your future has been shattered by a couple of fuckwits, and now they get to enjoy the bedrock relationship status that you used to enjoy, that was part of your identity, your family, your financial security. WHY DON’T THEY FAIL?

It seems like the perfect antidote, really — the whole Twu Wuv thing blowing up in their faces. Ha! That’ll show ’em! Maybe they’ll come crawling back! Maybe it will be too late! (Maybe it won’t. Oh hey, is that a unicorn I see?)

STOP. Don’t make your healing contingent on what cheaters do or do not do. You only control YOU. You certainly don’t control the karma timetable. Needing (wanting, desperately praying for) the Schmoopies to break up is a rookie chump mistake. Trust that they SUCK.

Oh shut up, Tracy, with your Trust That They Suck. Is this just more of your inane branding? Go embroider that on a pillow. I KNOW they suck. And I just want them to fall flat in a vat of acid. Is that too much to ask? 

If you need Bad Things to happen to cheaters, you’ve missed the point. THEY are the Bad Things. Being them is a punishment. I know it doesn’t look that way, what with the Nobel prizes, yoga retreats, and new trucks — but can you imagine being so vapid and selfish that you’d break up a couple families for kibbles? Do you really envy narcissists? So what if a couple of crappy people got together. I’d say it leaves them out of the dating pool, but it probably doesn’t. They. Don’t. Get. Character. Transplants.

And let’s say for the sake of argument that they do. Now they are Much Happier and It Was All for the Best. It’s regrettable that Mistakes Were Made, but sometimes you have to break a few hearts to make an omelet. They still did this. You can’t go back. That relationship is dead. It doesn’t matter how they move forward, YOU have to move forward with your one precious life.

Chances are the Schmoopies will break up. These things often do. (Look! Shiny thing!) But it will happen about the time you really don’t give a shit. And if they stay together? That’s about the worst punishment two narcs could endure — a bad kibble supply. Kibbles? I thought you were bringing the kibbles? No? So they’ll have to go out in search of new chumpy triangles (rectangles, dodecahedrons…. I never tire of that joke…)

God, aren’t you relieved to be out of that mix?

We don’t control fuckwits. I know it’s a shit sandwich to let them around your children, but just keep being the sane, awesome parent, and let fuckwits be fuckwits. Let them engrave invitations and invite everyone to their elaborately catered farce. What does commitment mean to people like that?

I have no idea what happened to the Schmoopies in my story. The internet has left a few clues. (There were other chumps, other triangles, more discovery of her long-standingness.) Doesn’t concern me. Those people suck. My life is pretty great. Certainly not without its challenges, but I’ve got some solid blessings, chief among them, I’m not a fuckwit.

I bet you’re pretty great too. Don’t look back. Forget the fuckwits.

This one ran before. Oh hey, still no character transplant! 

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I had hoped the X stayed with the AP and he moved into her home and junked it up like he did mine. She was married too and I thought the best thing for me was for them to stay together. They deserved each other, selfish twit for selfish twat. Unfortunately, they broke up and he has had many GFs since then. A couple have reached out to me for support when they realize how violent he is. I just ignore them. He also constantly cheats on them. It’s his way of doing things. The worst punishment I could have ever given one of his GFs is to let her have him! He is just a miserable nutcase and will always be one.

    • Well, I have to admit I’m not *nearly* at ‘meh’.

      I’m 3 years out from Dday, and a year post divorce, and I still have fantasies of vicious bloody revenge.

      My rage has morphed from bitter hurt and grief to incandescent rage over how they duped me, and fury at myself how I was so easily duped.

      So, yeah, I still fantasise that his rat faced whore cheats on him, or vice versa, and the fucktard really *suffers*.

      But then I think, hold on, you’re ascribing normal human emotions to a rat fuck who’s already demonstrated he doesn’t have any!

      I really don’t think the fucktard or his rat faced whore will ever suffer like normal people, because they aren’t normal people.

      On the other hand, as I said to my brother and my mate, thank *God* I’m not stuck in lockdown with that evil piece of shit – I know exactly how the scumbag reacts to anything that annoys/angers him, so hey, suck it up you rat cunt! ????????

    • We have all been sucker punched by someone we loved, tricked into thinking we had an amazing life. My ex left with a guy we both worked with, I hated them both for so long ,
      My Tuesday did come but it took nearly 3 years, we have two beautiful girls together. We share custody 50/50. As much I hated them both all through I didn’t want them to breakup because my kids liked him and it was better than having a revolving door of men meeting my kids, after 2 years I met someone new so thing do improve, you just don’t see it at the beginning .

  • Ex was devastated when his skank cheated on him after three years and left him. Oh he never loved her but DAMN she was the best drinking buddy ever!

  • This is one of the few chumpy patterns I never fell into. Once we went no contact I paid no attention to who she was with or what she was doing.

    I would like it, however, if she got married to someone, anyone. That would mean an end to alimony, which would please me very much.

  • I’m no where near meh but I don’t give a shit who/what/how many my ex Fuckwit is with. No doubt he’ll be remarried this time next year to his next unsuspecting chump.
    I get that it’s not fair that he trashed my marriage & endangered my Physical & mental health, what I really find unfair is how entitled they think they are when it comes to property settlements. After all they’ve put us through it’s a bitter pill to swallow when they try it on with your retirement fund. My ex Fuckwit is starting to realise that I meant it when I said I’d go to court if I had to, rather than accept less that what’s fair. My bulldog lawyer has helped enormously in that regard.

    • I very clearly remember the day I realized that the law was on my side in terms of a property settlement, and that I did not have to agree to the terms my now-ex was demanding. It was a very empowering moment that allowed me to stand up for myself, knowing that the law was behind me and that in court I would prevail.

      This is why it is of vital important for those recently chumped and afraid to leave to see a lawyer. It’s a big step, and hard to take, but in many cases what we fear about our financial future is much worse than what the lawyer can show us we are entitled to. And what a delicious feeling it is, to be able to use “I am legally entitled to” against our fuckwits’ sense of limitless entitlement!

    • Same here. My STBX is now trying to change the terms of the mediated agreement that he already signed. No remorse. Not even a twinge. No recognition of the role he played (cheating and lying for 2 1/2 years) in causing all this devastation.

      He (a victim in his own drama!) keeps saying I got everyone and everything so doesn’t want to pay alimony and wants half of my trust. He bought a new house and is living with his whore, who cheated on her own spouse to be with mine. Birds of a feather. They both suck. But he sucks more.

      Oh and I actually did get everyone who’s important: namely, our adult kids. They have chosen not to be with their toxic fuckwit of a dad. And it’s left him confused (“But but I was a great dad!”) and enraged (it’s all your fault) which, I believe, is why he is intent on screwing me in the divorce. The man is clueless.

      Fortunately I have a great lawyer, and he has a crappy one. So I’m hopeful. And the law is on my side.

      Oh, and I obviously haven’t got to meh yet. I don’t care about him or them or what they do, but I want them to be miserable. That said, CL has given me a new perspective. “They are the bad things” that happen. They are karma incarnate.

  • Thanks I really needed this.
    My ex let me during cancer. I was hairless, overwhelmed and just at the lowest of lows. He treated me like I didn’t exist. The mother of his child wasn’t worth any care.
    He went on to have 2 children in the past 2 years. A family of four with a woman who comes from a family with money. Her parents gave them a trip because they deserved a break from the kids. They just moved into a $600,000 house down the street.

    After our divorce my coworkers started treating me like crap (I think he had a part in that) and I lost my job. I found a new one quickly but it’s contract, so no holidays or vacation days paid. My hours are currently cut due to covid.

    By all appearances it looks like he suffered zero consequences. Got the dream life he wanted. Acts like a great family guy. But he’s still the same entitled, shallow jerk. His relationship with our daughter sucks (my fault according to him). I’m sure he only looks better because the ow orders him around and she has money so he complies.

    Me? After he left the neighbors started helping me out with the lawn. They bring gifts for our daughter. I’ve gotten closer to some of the school parents and most recently one surprised me with flowers and a card for Mother’s Day. My phone was flooded with Mother’s Day texts on Sunday. A few of the single parents have formed a network that help each other out.

    I have a community. Something I never had with him. It sometimes is hard to remember that that is worth more than all the money they have. There are days where it all feels incredibly unfair. Like can’t he have just one negative consequence? Then I remember that he has them. He just camouflages them with material items. I get to be me and it feels pretty great.

    • Your story makes my blood boil. If that asshole isn’t haunted by his actions until the day he dies he isn’t even fully human. You, on the other hand, are an amazing survivor, and a hero and an inspiration to everyone who knows you. You win!

      • Unfortunately they just flat out don’t care or they justify, no matter how absurd, their actions. However, these types although very attracted to money and what it can get them will deeply resent bending the knee to the person that has the money. The person with the money will resent doling it out to the taker. I read somewhere (and I believe it to be true) that most women will end a marriage when her partner is not pulling his weight or at the very least on par with her earnings. I think CC will go on to a much better life and her ex and his AP will be miserable. CC may not see it for some time as it will be hidden but I suspect the cheaters will have their comeuppance.

        • As a chump, I didn’t care that I earned more. I was in a relationship. We were supposed to be a team. I cared that he was a cheater. That was the deal breaker not $$

          • Chickenchump, I’m right there with you! The difference in income and financial contributions were tough, but not a deal breaker. A husband that didn’t respect me enough to keep his pants up pushed me out of the (what I thought was a happy) marriage.

            • Yep, I didn’t care that I outearned him w-2 wise and then I started a side hustle which provides weekly $, so combined I probably make near 50% more than him. I did care when he confessed his year long affair with howorker which was happening when I purchased a 2nd home with him and didn’t find out until 7 months after home purchase. At least he’ll be in for a rude awakening when he files his taxes next year. I was the one carrying the family tax burden and my accountant pointed out how little he has withheld from his paychecks.

    • Awesome.
      It is hard that we have to go through the pain to get to this point, but, for me, pain has always ended up transformational.
      I don’t like it, I wouldn’t pick it, I have been very lucky to have survived it, but the beauty and grace that I have found in people makes it acceptable.

      Enjoy your community. They probably give you more than your ex ever did. Cheaters are takers.

    • >>Like can’t he have just one negative consequence?

      That was the rub for me, that he could get away with betraying me so badly. That he pretended to love me while he was just using me. Of course, while I was there, I did see that he has a chronic envy problem which means he’s miserable. I’m not sure what it’d take for me to feel vindicated, but we have to find that frame.

    • Me too, cc. Mine was a cancer caused by the HPV he gave me. One sexual partner ever, and I got it from the whore (my supposed friend) he was fucking for a year and a half, nearly ten years earlier than the one he actually finally left me for, after two secret years of online dating, and after my cancer diagnosis. So yeah, I’m two years post separation, and am rebuilding a life, with kindness and genuine friendship, but nowhere near meh yet. The woman he left me for was confronted by me, I told her he lied, was not single, and as a former betrayed wife (married to a serial cheater, who died of cancer a few years earlier) I thought she would back off. Nope, she went harder, and he sold us up and moved to her region, they now live together and he is super Dad to her two youngest, and yet not really ever super interested in our three now young adults. Meh will come, but I don’t think it will ever be a full meh, just a version I can live with. I am better than I was, but it will never be okay. I honestly, stupidly thought he was the love of my life. D’uh

      • Now when I hear cheater & super dad I think of Chris Watts so as long as everyone stays alive it’s good but CS showed the world what is really behind that facade. Kibbles, convenience, image management.

    • CC,
      I just can’t help but think all that money giving her “control” over your cheating ex will give him something to “rebel” against. The entitled “you’re not the boss of me” game. I predict more trash from that garbageman, since THEY DON’T CHANGE. A man who leaves his wife fighting cancer isn’t built for any kind of heavy-lifting like ..oh, parenting, being faithful. I hate that all his shiny is flaunted in your face, but it’s wafer-thin and another illusion.

      You be MIGHTY, CC. Continue being mighty. Your daughter has one sane parent, and you do not have to deal with that f*#wit. You get to make your life to your liking. Big hugs!

    • This is a HUGE realization. Things are just things.

      I lost my brand new house, my income, physical custody of my children, and 90 % of my possessions. (Apparently my lawyer thought I wasn’t entitled to them, but I digress…)

      I was awarded our retirement funds, which promptly took a dive because of COVID before they cashed them out. I have to pay off one credit card I was not aware of, and the vehicle we are underwater on because he skipped so many payments.

      So after 12 years of giving up my career and trusting him to provide, all I have is a boatload of debt.

      BUT- I have things he will NEVER have: integrity, honesty, true friends, family, the ability to love and be loved, an authentic deep bond with my children. I could go on and on. These are priceless.

      Things are just things.

    • He’s a terrible person, CC. I’m so sorry you went through that while fighting cancer.

    • I suspect that your ex will never openly come to terms with what he did, and that he and his affair partner will remain married no matter how terrible their relationship becomes, because otherwise they would have to admit to themselves what an unconscionable thing they did to you.

  • This is about the last massive hurdle on my way to ‘meh’. I didn’t know I was such a vengeful person.

    Actually I did, I firmly believe in Adams’ equity theory about fairness and balance and when it doesn’t happen it makes my head spin. Annoys me because I KNOW I can’t control this outcome and I KNOW that it wouldn’t actually increase my personal happiness. But as much as I can rationalise it emotionally I can’t feel it and I don’t think any amount of counselling or rational discourse can make it so. Presume it’s just time.

    My mantra ever time I think this is SHE has ended up with a guy who thought it was acceptable not to discuss his relationship difficulties and, in the end, felt he was entitled to have an affair, to lie and cheat, to blame shift that all onto me and worse of all, thinks he is some kind of saint because he didn’t leave me while my dad had cancer but instead waited until week after his funeral. When you put it like that it’s fairly stark who’s got the better deal here. For the win!

  • I don’t care about the relationship between my Ex and his GF (who was one of his APs), but I still get incensed by my Ex’s efforts to facilitate a relationship between his GF and my adult-ish daughters. This particular GF/AP was in and out of my Ex’s life for years while I was still married to him. She didn’t care about my daughters’ welfare during her years of cheating with my Ex, and so she shouldn’t now be permitted to even speak to them, let alone try to ingratiate herself with them. Makes me sick.

    Does this mean I’m not at Meh? Hmmmm.

    • DD1 who was talking me down on Mother’s Day said – “Sidepiece, even if married will not be coming to my wedding. I made that crystal clear with ‘sad sausage’. And, step mother? Good God, I’m over 30. She will never have that distinction. We got your back, Mom.”

      I got back to meh pretty quickly. All chumps need their pod and a support pod. Chump Nation does a damn good job of that. Thank you ChumpLady.

      • That’s an interesting thought. Thankfully, I doubt my STBX will ever get back together with her most recent AP (we are all women). But, hypothetically, if they did get (back) together and then my older daughter got married, I would think it would be strange if DD would ban AP from her wedding but not STBX. After all, it was STBX who violated her marriage commitment, destroyed our family, and more directly injured our kids. I get that, in practice, banning AP means that STBX would be unlikely to come as well (assuming that they had anywhere near a healthy relationship, which is perhaps assuming too much). But in a heterosexual context, where the dad was the cheater, it seems to me like there might be some sexism involved in banning AP stepmom, but not cheater dad, from one’s wedding. I guess it seems harsher to the outside world not to invite one’s own dad? And maybe DD just has a super-restrained relationship with dad that doesn’t involve seeing stepmom ever? It’s enough to make someone’s head spin, really, and Reason #57,364 NOT to cheat on a partner. (Not that any cheaters are thinking about their kids’ future wedding arrangements when they’re f**king strange, or indeed, thinking about anyone else at all.)

        Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy your DD’s wedding, whenever it might happen, Langele!

        • “sexism”??!!

          Oh, good grief. Sorry, but I just can’t be doing with PC claptrap.

          A daughter might still want her *blood father* to be at her wedding, even though she knows he’s a morally bankrupt piece of shit, because blood ties.

          But why the *hell* would she want the whore her father cheated with there? Not to mention the pain it would cause her mother. Sexism? Pfft.

        • If your parent cheated, that’s the only mom or dad you have. A child might need that parent in their life for all kinds of reasons, or might want them in their life even though
          he or she is a highly troubled individual. It’s their mom or dad.

          I applaud any child who has loyalty to their parent who was betrayed and bans the fuckwit non-parent from a wedding. It’s unbelievable to me that the fuckwit accomplice would even want to show up at such an event – to further punish and rub it in the face of the parent who was dumped? In my opinion, if the child getting married doesn’t feel comfortable banning the fuckwit -that’s just evidence of even more dysfunction in the family.

    • Actually So Done that’s probably more accurate, I’m not sure I do care about those two one jot but I do care to about their toadying up to my daughter playing new happy families. Sick individuals. I can’t bear that dynamic at all and actually the reason I just want her to go away.

  • Thanks for re-running this one today. It’s a much needed reminder of the real meh-not even caring what he does or who he does it with. In a state of clear mindedness, I can see that he’s again in his role. He’s practiced at making others believe he’s got things under control. (Even, and especially, his fabulous three grown children.)
    The hard part is not trying to gather them as allies in seeing his sham. Grown kids need to figure out their relationship with their dad more than a grown woman needs be assured that she played by the rules and is the winner. That’s for them to sort out.
    I appreciate the reminder that it’s extremely doubtful that he became an awakened man and now understands himself, relationships, love and loyalty. It’s more likely that I’ve got a better understanding. I mean, who has been doing the work here?????? #projection

    • “Grown kids need to figure out their relationship with their dad more than a grown woman needs be assured that she played by the rules and is the winner. That’s for them to sort out.“

      Well said Shelly. A good reminder. It took me a long time to come to that realization but it sure did bring a lot of peace. CL is right, we can only control ourselves.

      • I really understand not wanting the ex to marry the AP. Even though in my situation their relationship was so unhealthy, I just didn’t want her to “win” because she is such a selfish hurtful bitch. She knew my husband was married. She knew he had kids. She made sure there was a joint Facebook profile, saying they were engaged, while we were still married. She was always around, flaunting. Their wedding was supposed to be Halloween this year. Ex said he’d ended things with her because she is bad news. I don’t know if that’s true. I will never know if that was true. My ex died last week. Skank is “heartbroken” because the last guy she was serious with also overdosed and died. She’s a gem. They won’t be married now, but I didn’t wish anyone to die to keep that from happening.

    • I have taken the view that my kids are in control of their relationship witth their dad. I can’t stand him but at one time I loved him and created children with him. I have been lucky in that he has, after a few initial stumbles, done right by his children. Five years out I can be in tthe same room withoutt loosing my shitt. I can utter his name in front of the kids and not be affected. He is not on my mind except when I am on this blog and a remember the cruelty and shit show of a life. A friend, Magneto, pointed out the other night that perhaps my experience was different in that I planned my exit for over a year. I knew what he was doing and I quietly gathered evidence and when the time came, I filed. Not sure. Five years later I’d love to find a new guy, but I’m not actively dating and don’t feel the need to search. For me, this is my “meh”.

  • I could never live another girl’s life, but whoever my ex is with will have to do exactly that, for he kept the “marital home” and still drives one of our cars that he got in the divorce settlement. It’s a lot of sloppy seconds, on multiple levels. It is exactly like how people say wives are like interchangeable parts to men. I could never go back to it. I vom in my mouth when sappy love song like faithfully come on in the car. Bleh.

    • This might be one of my favorite comments ever: ” It’s a lot of sloppy seconds, on multiple levels.” Hahahaha That perfectly sums up my ex’s life with his former-stripper-drug-addict bride. A lifetime of sloppy seconds for both of them.

      • She kept, wanted, the wedding China. The dining table. Etc.

        I don’t get it, myself: I’d rather starve.

      • Mine was a stripper sponsor too! Hey! Strippers don’t seem to mind slithering in on other girls’ lives. They’ll be happy to take sloppy seconds. I hear they prefer married men.

        • Mine had a raging porn addiction to go with the strippers. I’m guessing he paid them to act out all his porn induced fantasies ’cause I sure wasn’t going to! Not long after my divorce was final his current stripper gf who is now his bride, called me to complain that he was cheating on her with strippers from the club where he met her. That made me laugh. She was expecting sympathy from ME??? Blocked her number after that.

        • Hi OutWest! I’m doing well – healthy, I have my (grown) kids at home riding out the pandemic with me, and I’m still employed. Definitely very lucky on all fronts. ???? I hope you are well also!!

    • I don’t want another girls life either. My ex kept marital home ( I built and designed) sloppy seconds anyone with my ex. I am not at Meh everyday-but I don’t want that life back either. I have a great new house, Job and great friends. My only battle is my ex tries with every breath to turn the children against me. He tries to play the love bomb and triangulation with our teenage daughter; its very sick and twisted. He outright stated he was trying to save her from me. 2 weeks later he’s use emergency phone to send old family picture ( all I saw was a man posing and a mom who had made her daughters beautiful handmade dresses). Then sends a message about how I could move in with in. He is the sickest person I have met, helping children realize what he’s doing is nearly impossible. So I do wish bad sometime-not at meh.

  • I still want this * sigh *

    One day I’ll get it in my stupid head he’s not a prize he’s a lying , cheating FB

    But what rips my knitting is the thought they’ve had a baby and got married all within a year and I’ve not even been on a date !!!

    How can they just get on with life like 2 decades never happened ? While I’m still looking a bus timetables when the next karma express is due

      • I must be really deep because I haven’t been on a date since he left. 1.5 years. I agree though, it is shallow to move right into the next relationship instead of looking inside himself to figure out what he has done. I’ve worked hard on myself during this time and I’ve been the stable parent that my kids needed. I still want a little Schadenfreude. I don’t think they are particularly happy; both of their lifestyles have changed for the worse, my son won’t have anything to do with his ugly girlfriend and that drives her mad.

        • It’s been 4 years here and I’ve just gotten to the “gee it might be kinda sort of nice to find someone” stage. Everyone has their own timeline. As long as yours reflects your wants and needs then you are good. Don’t let what your ex does push you faster or hold you back. He doesn’t get even a passing influence any more. It’s all about you!

          • Four years for me too. Friends ask and I tell them this: I am enjoying the extra peace, solitude, closet space, money, and quality time I get with my kids and friends right now. Maybe at some point I will start feeling that urge to be with someone romantically again, but I am grateful that right now, I just don’t. No need to fix what ain’t broke.

            My ex lives just up the block from me and I have to drive past his house every day to get out of my cul de sac. So I see the parade of true loves that come and go as he explores his polyamorous, sadomasochistic ‘authentic self.” Even in these ‘open’ relationships, though, he is still cheating and lying, so every one of them has become an ex, and there is always a new victim.

            I worried for 3 years after we separated about what my kids were witnessing. I tried to get the courts to help me limit their exposure, but I learned the hard way that was a waste of time and money. Their father is a twisted perv, but unless my kids (now 11 and 13) come to me ask me to protect them from him, what happens over there is none of my business.

            I am most afraid they will inherit or adopt his family’s penchant for lies, image management, and using others; or become victims themselves. All I can do is try to be a good example, model strength and resilience, and make my life a happy one, so they know there is another way of being.

            I have not gotten to the point where I am not reminded every day of how much he sucks, but I don’t dwell on it anymore or try to fix it.

    • This is why in divorce women take most of the hit. It cuts them off at the knees. You know a guy sucks if a girl had to get rid of him, esp if she has little kids.

      I side eye all divorced men. I don’t see myself ever remarrying. Never. Sign over your biggest asset and tie it up with a Judge’s signature before I’d do that again. Until that happens, you can wine and dine me. Oh, don’t have time to do hat because you got 23 year olds willing to fuck you because you bought $50 dinner at Texas Roadhouse? Okay, I’ll still keep my garden and cats and be alone. I fucking hate men.

      And by the way, all the murders of women by men should be charged as hate crimes.

      • Well, that escalated quickly. I don’t think you have internalized the reality that cheating is not gender-specific. You are not safer by assuming all men are potential cheaters or murderers. Men are chumps and allies too, so your blanket hatred is self-destructive and offensive. Use that anger to take actions that make yourself feel safe and loved. Best of luck to you during this very, very difficult time.

      • I’m sorry for your pain. I agree that women usually get the short end of the stick financially in divorce, as men usually get the short end of the stick on custody issues. But as CL says, it’s not a pain Olympics.

        I am one of those divorced men you find untrustworthy and “hate.” You should meet my cheater ex-wife. I divorced her after multiple affairs because she refused to stop cheating, after which I had to pay her tens of thousands of dollars over several years in support (though she is college educated and fully employed). She used the money to shack up with a still-married AP. But really that’s trivial. The worst part of “the hit I took?” Losing most of my time with my youngest child, 12 when I filed for divorce, simply because I chose to leave a cheater. My Ex-wife moved him 2,000 miles away. I saw him for a weekend every couple of months. For years.

        My cheating ex-wife is a terrible person. Not because she’s a woman, but because she does terrible things and hurts everyone around her.

        I am now at 56 happily remarried at an amazing 53 year old woman, also a chump. We find more in that tragic experience in common than different. It is an abiding comfort to us both. For me, trusting another woman was the best decision I ever made.

        Hate who you want, Babs, but know there are millions of men like me out in the world who have suffered like you. They understand your pain better than my ex-wife would. There are also thousands of such men on this website, holding on for dear life. Please be mindful of those pain when you post.

        I wish you peace and contentment on your journey.

        • Yeah I know several of the wives of my cheating ex-wife’s AP. Nice people. Some of them stayed with their cheating husbands. I’ve read extensive email conversations between my ex and her AP’s. She was the driving force in her affairs and proud of it. After I divorced her she waged a relentless campaign to pressure one of her AP’s to leave his wife and kids, which he ultimately did. They are both jerks, with A LOT in common. She was no victim of anyone.

          That’s kind of the point of this site: cheaters are users and chumps got played. Full stop. Gender isn’t the issue. But hey good luck with the MAN BAD / WOMAN GOOD thesis. My cheating ex wife will likely buy what you’re selling.

          • I know some male and female cheaters. They’re cut from the same cloth. Nothing special about them heck some of them even married each other. Then cheated on each other. Talk about the war of the roses. Thats cheap entertainment at work. Who wants popcorn??

      • Babs, I’m so sorry you are feeling like this. It’s easy to feel like this, but it doesn’t really answer anything.

        Cheating is caused by shitty person/shitty character syndrome, it’s definitely not something just men do; if you read here regularly, and read the archives, you’ll know plenty of men get cheated on, and plenty of people in same sex relationships/marriages. It has *nothing* to do with gender, and *everything* to do with being a person with no character, integrity, or moral compass.

        Entitled scum cheat because they feel entitled, and have no conscience, that’s it.

        It’s lovely that you have a garden, and lovely cats, enjoy them, but try not to hate *all*men because of one fucktard, there are plenty of decent men out there, and they’re decent because they have good *character*, nothing to do with their gender.

        As for the ‘hate crimes’ thing, no, that’s just bullshit; for a start, the whole ‘hate crime’ thing is just PC crapola. Very few crimes don’t have a hate element, and whilst men have murdered women because of hatred, they’ve also murdered them for profit, safety, and any number of motives. As *women* have murdered men, for the same multifarious motives.

        I totally get how angry you are, it’s totally understandable, but please don’t write off possibly decent human beings because of their sex. Much love and ((hugs)) to you hun. ❤️

        • But it’s makes me as that no other group of people kills so many more of another group of people, and yet it’s not a crime in a class of its own. It’s not right.

      • I feel like supporting Babs for sharing her truth. A lot of men do seem to disdain love in favor of heartless sex, are smug about it, and escape consequences which destroy the women/children. It’s hard not to hate after being wounded by that. Doubly so if our mother’s families were destroyed by philandering too. So hating men is logical, and to say otherwise would be fake. Women have had to stuff their anger for too long, so releasing it is good. Growing out of hate is a more satisfying life, but hate as a stepping stone isn’t wrong.

        • Like I said, hate who you want, but understand it’s irrational and an emotional response given that millions of women also cheat and “escape consequences.” That very real feeling is more about one’s own history and choices, not the real nature of an entire gender. Your anger certainly doesn’t justify slandering me and other male victims of infidelity on an infidelity support site.

          You “f*cking hate men?” Which includes me? Jeez, really? You’ve never met me, and I am a chump like you. What did I do to earn your hate? And If hating an entire gender and trumpeting that hate publicly is a “stepping stone” to anything healthy and productive, a “reality” we should “support,” you’ll have trouble saying differently about folks who hate entire races, nationalities, or religions. Is that where you mean to go? Because many of those folks can also cite bad experiences with individuals from the group they hate.

          Your hate isn’t special, and talking that way here only hurts other victims of infidelity. Please consider that before posting similar comments in the future.

          • Babs,

            It sounds like you are in a heap of pain. The red hot pain that scortches your soul. For that I am truly sorry. I was having a conversation the other night with a friend who has also been cheated on. The just of the conversation was precisely that men are cheaters and not to be trusted. I pointed out that for every “male” cheater, there is a willing “female” cheater and if you do the math, it illuminates the fact that there exist a whole heap of people with shitty characters. Here at Chump Nation, there exist us, a whole group of people who were hurt, abused, violated etc. My sense is we have good, decent character. So there is hope, there are good people. Be patient, give yourself grace. Chump Nation is a welcoming place, full of crazy stories of hurt and also full of awesome stories of rising from the ashes.

        • This blog is not about hating any entire gender. And I DESPISE moderating, but I will take down hate speech about an ENTIRE class of people. “I hate women” or “I hate men” or “I hate gays” are all loathsome to me. Yes, express your feelings about the PERSON who did this. I get anger directed at who chumped you. But NOT blanket hatred. This is not a difficult concept.

        • okay, gotta ask. If hate is a stepping stone, WTF are you stepping up to? That’s some serious BS there unless it’s a stepping stone to the seventh circle of hell. I could maybe buy that.

          The moniker on this site is “Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life.” It’s not “hate a gender because the cheater fuckwit you were married to did you wrong.” Please buy a clue.

      • Ridiculous post. Most women file for divorce and even though it’s anecdotal, I’ve had absolutely no experiences of men cheating on their wives but a shit ton of women cheating on their husbands, then manipulating their kids, and going after them financially. Try being a man, being faithful to a woman you had no idea was cheating, getting you to fund a business for her, finding out she’s gaslit you and is cheating with a former high school boyfriend who is now a grown pot head with his own girlfriend, then having her reject any chance of reconciliation (thank God), take my kids half the time, creating constant drama, and going after me financially.

        Or maybe be like my brother who was cheated on by his wife who got him and my family to pay for her to go to nursing school and took care of her daughter as if it was his own, only for her to inevitably cheat, leave him for the guy, and take his biological kid out of state.

        You look at divorced men with a side eye? Why? You think women are just “victims?” Nonsense.

    • karenb,
      I struggle with this, too. Twenty-five years married, and it was as if it meant nothing to him. I certainly don’t want him back, but I don’t want her to have him, either. I know he’ll eventually remarry because he can’t stand to be alone, and I can take that. I just don’t want it to be her. She knew he was married, and she did it anyway. He cheated on her with #2, and she took him back. She’s married, and she’s waiting for our divorce to be final so she can leave her hubby and have a place to land while her divorce plays out. I can’t stand the thought of her living in my house. Funny thing is, there were actually two women–#2 was much younger and lost interest when he ran out of money. I could care less about her. It’s #1. I don’t get why she bothers me so much.

  • This is timely for me. My son became the cheater. He thinks because he didn’t have sex, he didn’t cheat. Regardless his heart was with his personal assistant whore. I totally support my daughter in law. She is a wonderful human in all aspects. I blame myself some for staying with his sucky dad. Almost daily I have a fight with the whore, in my head. She wants to explain why I should accept their tru luv. I tell her never and to F… off. I will never accept her but I also don’t need to give her real estate in my head. Like a true chump, it was easier to be abused than to witness it done to those I love.

    • Your DIL is soooooo lucky to have you!!!! I hope you kick your son’s ass together.
      I’m sorry he’s your son, that must be heartbreaking, but you have a lot of power as the parent, even if they’re grown up. You’re in an optimal position to enforce a big part of the consequences.

      My cheater and I were in our 30’s when I was forced to pull the plug on our 10+ relationships, just right before our wedding. I would have hoped his parents would try to knock some sense into him (not that it’s really possible, I know), rather than just taking his side and ignoring me. It’s despicable what they do and just like I eliminated my toxic parents, I’d have no second thoughts about alienating a toxic child, either.

      I’d happily trade him with the chumpy, in-law acquired one!!!

    • It’s so refreshing you took your son to task and have supported your DIL! Too many parents of cheaters will look the other way and pretend their child did nothing wrong. However, I know he is your son and you more than likely would like your son and DIL to stay together and work things out. I think that would be terrible for your DIL. She doesn’t deserve to be discarded for some skank personal assistant. He’s already shown he’ll dump her without hesitation.

    • “I blame myself some for staying with his sucky dad”.

      Yes, that *might* have given him the idea that cheating was acceptable, or forgivable, but ultimately every human being is responsible for the choices *they*make.

      It must be really hard; of course you love your son, but the fact you have chosen to condemn what he did, and have ranged yourself on the side of your DIL, speaks volumes for your character. I’m so sorry, what a horribly fucked up situation to be in. xxx❤️

  • Arseface presented his new relationship with the exit AP as the love that would last forever.He was so in love, so happy while I was in an agony of grief and despair.
    Turns out,as I discovered much later,he still had his hidden harem on the go through that relationship too.
    He eventually discarded her for someone 25 years younger than
    him,who subsequently dumped him when she caught him cheating.
    So yeah,no character transplant.
    Last I heard,which was a couple of years ago now,he was engaged to someone he had known for only a few months.
    I have no doubt she’s just the respectable front he likes to present to the world and he still has his underground harem ‘all over the world’ as he once boasted in a rare unguarded moment.
    I look back and can hardly believe I loved this man so much,was so utterly devastated when I discovered who he really was behind the urbane mask.
    Now I am thankful for what happened.
    I couldn’t care less what he does or who he’s with. I’m just so grateful it’s not me.
    Dead to me is the phrase that comes to mind. If I ran in to him accidentally anywhere I would blank him completely.
    I got nothing.

  • I don’t care what he does except when it comes to our children. Satan can go through his spoils when the divorce is final and increase his spending on his hoarding and parental alienation program already in progress. It’s all worldly things. I’m more concerned with my children.

  • My ex died, and his AP is now alone and financially desperate. I didn’t really want them to have THAT awful an end. Anyway, I recently discovered that she had published a very long obituary/article about her relationship with him. (They lived together for 8 years, married for 6 months.) I was married to him for 25 years, had three kids with him. Anyway, what I would like some insight on from the chump community is why, in her very very long badly written article about his entire life, she never mentions either me or my children. Not once. Is it because she actually feels guilty? Is that possible? Or do chumps and their kids just simply not exist to APs?

    • Sad sausage story, fishing for sympathy and $$, film at 11PM. Why would I mention that I broke up a family and long term relationship?

    • I’m sorry about your children’s father dying

      No APs feel no guilt or shame if they did then they wouldn’t be APs in the first place

      • I suppose that rather than see them come to a bad end, I just wanted them to feel very sorry for what they did. But its clear from what you say that that doesn’t happen.

        • I guess if there were any doubt of AP being pure garbage, that lengthy obituary, leaving not only you out but his kids (???!!!) proves she really is garbage and does not deserve one ounce of sympathy for her financial woes or cheater’s death.

          • I remember an obit for a local lawyer. He is survived by the love of his life, insert OW turned wife’s name….then mentions the 3 kids he left from his first wife in order to be with OW. It just seemed in poor taste to use the “love of his life” vs. his wife. Like OW was trying to claim one last win. I saw OW recently and noticed she wasn’t wearing her diamond ring anymore. She was probably married to the deceased for 20 years or so. She helped break up a family and now is alone and has no kids of her own.

    • In Nancy Reagan’s autobiography didn’t Ronnie’s first wife warrant a one line mention or something like that? She obviously preferred to think wife no. 1 never existed.

    • Lucy,

      I always think of that scripture verse that says, “You reap what you sow”.

      You are a very kind woman for feeling badly and trying to unravel what happened. I would be like CuteSmartCatholic and want to dance on that grave.

      He got his as far as I am concerned. As for his new white trash wife not mentioning you and the kids, that would require dignity, grace, and class….none of which she has. She is also reaping what she has sown.

  • Mr. Sparkles is a serial cheater. The OW he left our marriage and family to pursue finally got a clue when she discovered he was cheating on her through his online profiles on Adult Friend Finder. She was “aghast” with shock and dismay… he would cheat on HER?!?

    Six weeks after she dumps him (after two years of twu wuv), he announces he has a new GF that he met at the gym. Luckily, she believes that the ad of him on Ashley Madison was created by some Russian Phishing Ring that creates fake personal ads to lure in unsuspecting women and Mr. Sparkles is a victim of such an attack. Yup… special kind of stupid right there that believes that bullshit.

    Moral of story… CL is right. They don’t change. They just change partners. Go live your cheater free life… really… go!

    • When x told me he wanted a divorce out of the blue, and sang the ILYBINILWY song, it took me a nanosecond to figure out why he was bailing on our marriage, he was fucking somebody else. I was devastated, then angry, then grieving, then working hard, but at that moment, a little wish flashed through my brain, and it was this: I hope he marries her! Happily ever after, right? That fright there, folks, is karma, I don’t care how good it looks. Vacations, real estate, new cars, retirement, pictures on FB. Ten years down the road, x has it all (I mean it looks that way) and he is still NOT happy.

      • I’m sure my ex-H would love to marry the OW. If only she or her current husband could get around to filing for divorce! I mean our divorce is finalized, what’s the hold up? She doesn’t want to pull the trigger on her happy family image? Give up her heavily mortgaged family home? Probably still enjoying her cake and one last triangle.

  • They can all sleep in a big, greasy heap of dysfunction. He is all theirs now. Enjoy those skid marks on your sheets. Enjoy his poor personal hygiene. Enjoy his trashy ways, hoarding and inability to take care of anything. He is going to be far less attractive once the money is gone. You won a “sparkly turd”. No returns!!! No take backs.

  • I used to think Karma would be one of them cheating on the other and a messy breakup. Now I understand Karma is them being stuck with each other. I can’t say they are not happy together but ex has strained all of his other relationships because of her. Nobody in his family (especially our kids) likes her and he has lost a lot of respect which has always been important to him. Meanwhile, although they are polite to her (other than one of my sons), she can still feel their distain and will have to live with that. They have each other and that’s really all they have. I have my dignity, independence and the respect, love and admiration of friends and relatives who knew us both.

    • They may have each other now, but that will wear off soon enough. Soon, she won’t be enough to make up for the strained relationship with his kids, family and peers. Resentment will creep in, she’ll bear the brunt of his frustration, anger and then they’ll be completely miserable. When things don’t work out, people will secretly cheer as everyone loves a good payback story ending.

  • I watched a new documentary about Betty Broderick yesterday. No doubt in my mind that Dan Broderick and his girlfriend were major dicks. But I kept yelling at the TV, “No, Betty!!! Don’t!! Stop!!! Let her have the sparkly turd!!!”

    I am sure everyone here understands nuclear pain and fear and anger. But CHEATERS AND WINNERS ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE TERMS! A cheater cannot be a winner by definition, and a great piece of advice is to STICK WITH THE WINNERS!

    The Karma bus HAS arrived! It is here to pick up YOU and take you to a better life without a soul-sucking leech masquerading as a spouse.

    I am so disappointed I will never get to find out if Dan was cheating on Linda like I got to find out with my XH. Her kids are suffering way more than if she had dropped that SOB and gone to kickboxing class. There should be no surprises here; they were playing with dynamite and that can happen. But also tragic and wrong is that she should have walked in the other direction and didn’t. ????

    Life with an affair partner IS the karma….I believe it. You don’t know what you don’t know, and in their ignorance and selfishness they only have a marriage standing on top of the rotting stinking dead bodies of the families they soul-murdered and no way do I envy that. I am lucky to be liberated from a loser. I want to be in a relationship with a winner, and right now that person is ME.

    • An affair is a rock solid symptom that your partner has the Relationship Ineptitude virus. ReInVi-19. It’s a virus that goes with them and infects whatever relationship they are in. The affair accomplice also has it. You don’t want to get it! You need to practice SOCIAL DISTANCING.

      Way more than six feet or you might end six feet under.


      • Relationship Ineptitude is a good word for it. It can be so bad that everyone around them gives up on relationships.

  • I must admit, Tracy, I have wondered what became of your EX and his on-and-off-again AP after your divorce. Did he finally marry her? Still discard her in favor of more fruitful appliances? I’m more curious about your EX than my STBX.

    COVID-19 shutdown the local courts, so I did not get my March divorce. I’m hoping the new June date proves successful. I’m so ready to be truly be free of a FUCKWIT.

    Many thanks for helping me get to meh with your book and blog. Now if I can just get my creativity mojo back, things would be excellent.

    • MiM. It will come. Just start small. Mine came back with a vengeance after a while. I had not even realized how much of me had shut down. Just be good to and patient with yourself

    • I am still waiting on the courts to open back up here! I feel like not being able to file is really putting a damper on my healing. But, I do have a therapy session scheduled for Friday, so that’s a plus!

  • My ex got “officially” (cause even that part he managed to do shadily) in a new relationship after we had separated (not the OW), but because of how he’s handled everything and still handles everything, I still wait for the day it all blows up in their faces (hers, too, because she entered a bad situation knowingly, evidently convinced she was above it all).

  • I don’t want my life with fuckwit back or him in my life. I was very depressed on Mother’s Day and worrying about my financial future (I’m 63). I hate when I hear he and the sidepiece have spent any time with my kids and grandson. The kids know it and are kind of secretive about it (makes me crazy..lying all over again..thanks fuckwit).

    So what is Meh? Is it having no feeling toward the fuckwit? I have feelings toward him..disgust and loathing. I don’t see that changing. I can’t stand being in the same room. I don’t want him is that meh? I worry about loneliness and retirement and my future. Does that mean I won’t have Meh? I have friends and a network and a life.

    • i admit i wished my ex-husband dead or that OW leaves him after finding out what a cheater he is when D day was still fresh. time is really my friend (and no contact except through my lawyer). To this day, i don’t really have any updates on him — and he never even asked about his son who thank God i have primary custody. We live in different states and that makes it easier as i don’t have to deal with him – and he never tried to contact me either so it’s like he never existed. The only one i’m working on is getting full custody of my son and his parental rights revoked – he never was there for his son for several years now, not even with child support.

  • I still hope he dies painfully and alone and afraid. Like the perfect ending in a Betty Davis movie. But the reality is, I don’t really know him anymore. I don’t have a clue about their relationship or whether they are happy. I know they almost broke up and he was freaked out. He wasn’t like that with me because I didn’t make him live with threats of walkouts. But they are still together and it might be a financial decision on both their parts. She’s never been with someone so long so it’s possible she’s ready to dump him. But that would be a problem for our kids so I hope they stay together.

  • The cowardly liar has remarried, then divorced, a shocking number of times.

    Most of the partners have been very young women. One was 15. He was over 30 then.

    Every one has been his “soulmate” per his internet image-managing bloviating. One of them was the subject of a long story about their missed connection that proved their soulmate-i-ness had started years before they met in person. It occurred while he and I were on a vacation, it seems.

    I look him up very briefly once in a while to find where he lives in the hope that he’s not back near me. So far, so good. He moves every few years, and each time I confirm his location, I breathe another sigh of relief and move on for another couple of years.

    He has buckets of money, a high-standing position at a place you’ve definitely heard of, and enough charm to have a room to sleep in anywhere he goes in the world. And always at least one someone to screw. Everything looks perfect. Happy. Gleeful, even.

    Yet there’s a wake of devastation following him and a complete lack of any true connection or stability. He’s a complete fraud of a human being. An oxygen thief, as a person used in a description I read this morning about another person who harms whoever he touches.

    Whatever it is you see tacked on to the outside, the absolute truth is that a person who possesses the inner cruelty to deceive someone who loves and trusts and wants good for them is a person who is living a cursed life from the inside out. That person can never know real joy, or real love, or appreciate real beauty. That person can never settle. That person will never feel satisfied or at peace.

    I love my life now. It’s not utopia. I don’t love everything about it. There are things on my bucket list I will never do, things I missed while I was with that guy that I can’t ever get back. Still this is the best time of my life, and as I go on it keeps getting better — not because of a bunch of shiny things that look happy, but because with every year my authentic experience deepens and my appreciation for what’s beautiful about living expands. The more I give time and energy to loving what I love, the less I grieve for any experiences I’ve wished for and lost. I would not feel that way now if I were still mired in abuse and deception.

    He can have all the money, all the shine, all the things. But he can’t have all the oxygen, all the love, all the joy. I live richly blessed with those things because he is too far away from me to stem the flow. And that is the best life choice I have ever made, for certain.


      I am copying this one. I totally agree and thank you for articulating it so perfectly.

    • Yes! Thank you. “The more I give time and energy to loving what I love, the less I grieve for any experiences I’ve wished for and lost.”

      When I hear that he took another trip somewhere (trips he never took with me), that’s he finally did the renovation that I had asked for for years, I know its not what it seems. My leaving certainly hasn’t seemed to make him any happier. He constantly bitches about money, nothing ever works out right, no one is ever right/does enough and everyone is out to get him. And that house renovation? Torn out, slapped up, done cheap and wrong. It would have made me pull my hair out and then he’d be mad that I didn’t appreciate “all that he does for me”. I just feel for my kid that has to live 1/2 the year with him in that shit hole.

      And while I still have some financial and custody issues to deal with, it all feels manageable now. Even in the face of Covid 19, I’m in such a better place than where I was 5 years ago. I feel gratitude every day.

      • (Maybe especially in the face of it, since you’d be exposed to such a large number of unverifiable possible carriers at the hands of a lying cheater.)

  • Regarding the Nobel Prizes:

    My mother had a friend whose husband dumped her after many decades of marriage and many years of supporting his career as a theoretical particle physicist. (I don’t know if there was any cheating involved). She had the foresight to put a line in the divorce settlement, so when the former husband eventually got a Nobel Prize several years later, she got a slice of it.

    I put a similar line in my divorce, but the Nobel Prize went to other people in XW’s experiment (not to her personally). However, if she does win anything, I will get 50%.

    The lesson is: put it in the settlement.

  • Oh… they got some karma. Their “love child” is 2 and has cerebral palsy…. my ex is 51. He moved the forces together by infidelity family from a rental to a house they now own. I call it Tetanus House because you have to get a tetanus booster to live there. It’s a fucking dive. One of his major complaints is that he didn’t like the house I brought to the marriage and he REFUSED to put any money or work into it. I live in a brick house with 3,200 sq feet that used to be an old Mormon Church. It’s solid needs work, but has good bones. He wanted me to give it up and move somewhere else and I said I would but told him I REQUIRED 3 bedrooms, a garage a decent kitchen, room for my hobbies. If he could find that, I’d consider. He wouldn’t even look. Said my expectations were too high.

    He has now moved his Ho-vid Carrier ( they’re both nurses) to a double wide, 70s trailer with a lean to
    garage that they are now the proud owners of. My girls tell me it’s half gutted on the inside and one daughters bedroom windows look out into the garage. No daylight at all. The roof is leaky, I’m sure wiring and plumbing are questionable.

    After seeing that, I thank God even more that I never gave up my house.

    • Gawd, send two smoke detector over with your girls, one for each room they sleep in! The smoke detectors should stay there. The place sounds unsafe.

      • It would be better to put smoke alarms in all the rooms they can possibly do so, or at least in a hallway outside bedrooms, because the earlier they get set off if there’s a fire or at least something smouldering but on its way to spontaneously combusting, the more chance of getting out in time. By the time a smoke alarm goes off in a bedroom the fires causing it has likely spread.
        I’m not a firefighter, but I do get regular fire safety training as part of my job – having smoke alarms in any home, especially a badly wired dump, is a good idea in any case though.

  • When I first found you I’m not sure I understood what meh would be, but I do now.
    Meh is being happy and content with my life with my 2 awesome teenagers. Who I get to see a lot of as I now work from home and they online school.
    Meh is being happy telling them stories that include their other parent, or looking back at pictures that he is in, and not feeling sad, just relieved my life is exactly as it is. We had some fun times during our 25 years. But it turns out I can have fun times without him!
    Meh is having survived the horrible pain of that first year post d day and realizing I am one smart, tough, competent woman.

    I don’t want bad things to happen to me ex. His sister is still my good friend and his mom is a lovely grandma to my kids. I don’t want them hurt…and I prefer no more drama for my kids. Best he stays far away, like he does now, and send his child support on time.

    My ex is now somebody that I used to know.

    • Marge,

      So true. My lovely and impossible daughter came home from college during the Coronavirus Crisis. And has continued to go with her younger brother to her dad’s. They have a decent relationship, one that in all my pain I was careful not to sabotage. I realized mid way through, that I’m totally at Meh. My ex’s mother contracted COVID. She is in a nursing home, elderly. When married, I was her primary caretaker. She had a stroke during our divorce, on Mother’s Day, 6 years ago and has never returned home. She was a passive aggressive MIL. Anyway, she contracted COVID. In the middle of it all, our daughter started to apply for jobs that would place her at a risk for contracting COVID. No big deal, except my youngest has asthma. Soooo, I bit the bullet and texted my ex. I said I would appreciate if he doesn’t tell our daughter I’m texting. I let him know she’s applying for jobs and I think it’s not safe. Within 10 minutes he asks if he should offer her a job….yep, I said please, thank you and I appreciate it. He said, “no problem”. I said I hear your mom has COVID, I’m sorry and he said “thanks”. My daughter was soooo excited to have job, she thought he just randomly offered it. I said “awesome kiddo”. I will never tell her. His mom is still alive. And through all of it I could only reflect on how far I’ve come. I don’t wish him dead, my kids do need him. I don’t wish ill on his mother even though she made much of my adult life miserable. I was just relieved. That for me is “Meh”.

  • Ex and ho-worker broke up withing 3 months of her divorce about 8 months after ours – by that time he had been with her for about 2 1/2 years and surely he was abusive with her – he sucks like a Dyson and he absolutely cannot help himself. I honestly had hoped they would marry – they deserve each other. He quickly found an new victim and as I predicted he married her in less that a year – I cannot help but feel sorry for her, there is no way of knowing what a POS he is. (Full disclosure my kids are adults so no visitation – I know I would feel differently if they were forced into a relationship with his paramour.)
    Since our divorce I realized that my happiness is directly tied to him not being in my life not the other way around!

  • Karma is that they live the life they chose. It may appear that they won some materialistic game, but things are never what they appear to be on the surface. It is the old story of building a house on a foundation of shifting sand. The house will always fall, eventually, because there s no foundation of character to provide support. The shiny prize of today will seem tarnished and less than tomorrow.

    My last ex died about two years ago. He was living in an RV (his sister bought for him). He married at least one other time, I think he married a total of six or seven times ( I’m not even sure what number I was), looking for Ms. Goodbar, but every one ended in divorce. In the end, although there were multiple girlfriends and wives, his family quietly buried him. He had virtually nothing, and he was nothing I only felt relief, because I would never have to hear from him again, or listen to the “I’ve changed” story again

    The father of my children is sick. He cannot drive, and he lives at the mercy and command of his younger Asian wife. He lives downstairs, and she lives upstairs in a house too big for two people. Neither of them take care of the housekeeping, both are hoarders. She wants to keep him alive because his retirement pays for the mortgage. My children tell me these details, I do not ask. They exist in what was a nice house, in a nice neighborhood, but I doubt there is any happiness in that home. Her children don’t even visit. My son’s stay in contact with their Dad, but rarely visit. I do not envy their life together.

    It may be due to my age, but in the past few years I have been evaluating and purging my material possessions. I seek only comfort during my retirement, and I do not want to leave a mess for my children to clean up. I never made a lot of money, but I am fairly healthy and can pay my bills. My children stay in contact, and we visit regularly. I feel blessed. In the end, you really cannot take material possessions with you. Who you are, and what others know about your character is how people will remember you. Being content with that is my MEH.

    I gave up many material things, and my pride was damaged when my Ex’s cheated. Leaving them behind was the best choice I ever made. I started living for myself, and continued to be the sane parent for my sons. I won’t say life is ever easy, but my conscience is clear. Those who choose to cheat will never be able to say that. My ex’s suffered the consequences of their own bad choices, and that is how they will be remembered. I feel certain any woman who ever mingled with them regretted ever meeting them. Remember, all that glitters is not gold.

  • This is where I’m at during this crappy stay at home order it does give u time to stew. I’m 2 years out. Every cheater fail to a T. Ugh, but I keep moving on with my new narc free life. Even if it gets bumpy. I just keep going.

  • He has an N tattooed in on his forehead. I thought it stood for NICE. It really stands for NARCISSIST.
    Now she thinks it stands for NICE.

    I have been his SCAPEGOAT.
    She is his new SCAPEGOAT.
    Blamers need SCAPEGOATS.
    They are BLAMERS.

    They take their issues with them to all new relationships.
    Choose First Class with your dream luggage.

    I was in a boxing match with his FOO issues. I am getting out of the ring.
    She is his new SPARRING PARTNER.

    I see who he is now and I hear my Higher Power yelling at me to get away from him.
    She is DEAF AND BLIND.

    He was an ENERGY PARASITE, draining my energy, sucking the life out of me.
    She is his NEW HOST.

    I want a HEALTHY relationship or I want to be on my own.
    He is NOT HEALTHY. The affair is the PROOF.
    (His new girlfriend is unsafe, untrustworthy, and unhealthy too. Rest assured.)
    Nothing to envy there.

    USE YOUR WORDS AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE THE CORRECT ONES. Write them down and read out loud to yourself. It helps me.

  • I distinctly remember prior to the Final Moment of our marriage farce when I confronted him and his smirk, thinking he was pulling something superior over on me, and told him to be careful, that he was going to push me too far one day and I would walk. If he thought he would be able to easily replace me, he would have a very rude awakening.

    When I did finally get confirmation of the girlfriend, sure I was mad and hurt. Especially after she moved in physically and emotionally so quickly into “my” position, but by that time I knew what a treat she’d be in for and began placing bets as to how long she’d last. 9 months and she bailed. Since that time (over 4 years now) he’s been surfing all sorts of dating sites. Last I heard he’s now onto the foreign Asian ladies who want to meet nice American men. Thank goodness my son is just a few years out from being 18 and won’t have to deal with Dad’s girl friend trial wife appliances for long.

  • Thank you for re-running this.

    In so many ways, this has been the most freeing for me.
    It also have been my marker along the journey to Meh.

    There is no fault for wishing (and plotting) long walks off short piers for our cheaters.
    I had them as anyone here would.

    But as I have moved further along, I see the fundamental crack in my marriage to XW; we view life differently. We value relationships differently; I want a big life with big meaningful relationships, friendships and experiences. She is afraid of living.

    I see how she makes choices according to fear. And that will never change. Not with her new guy, not with her children, not with FOO.

    Thats karma.

  • CL – Thank you for this timely re-blog! I can’t stop obsessing about STBX and his Fuck Buddy. I am 3.5 mo from D-Day following a year long “I’m so worried something is wrong with my husband but he won’t talk to me”. I am at the FURIOUS stage of grief (re-reading ‘anger’ blogs over and over), and also so want them to FAIL! I had a marriage that was mostly good – we called our selves best friends, and great partners and were kind and respectful to each other. I loved and accepted him completely, despite his shortcomings – and yes he had those. I know the FB only by name and a one-time meeting at her wedding in 2007 (the same year we married). They knew each other thru a local college organization they assisted with. She got divorced in 2014, right about time she started talking and messaging my husband (post D-Day detective work). About 6 or so years ago he added lock code to his phone and iPad (?) and stopped wearing wedding ring (hurt his golf swing). After D-Day, pre-quarantine he came home (I hadn’t seen him in 7 wks) and about a week in took opportunity when he went out to ‘do errands’ for 3 1/2 hours (meet FB) to break into his iPad (smart enough to hide his affair, but too dumb to change iPad passcode) and there it was, the soul crushing FB messaging conversations. Their ‘anniversary date’ (wasn’t last year bc we were on vacation together – so which YEAR was this!!), the cartoon kisses, their nightly tuck-ins, he called here honey bunny (he calls me honey bunny). I finally knew the depth of his betrayal – the whole time telling me that he loved me, what a great partner I was and how I was ‘the best person he knew’. When he left he gave me a line of shit as if he just needed to be ‘on his own’. We have no kids at home, a big beautiful home with a pool we bought just 3 years ago, and plenty of money, he golfs when ever he wants, we have a lawn service cut our grass – where is the stress in your life asshole?! Other than the shit you manufactured for yourself.

    So YES my reality is shattered and I want them to FAIL!!!!. I’m currently obsessed with it, despite re-listing to Chap. 10 over and over (“Obsessing about the AP?.. DON’T). For now she has won her prize – her 51 year-old, married, soon twice-divorced, bald BF with ED and no friends. She is a 38 year old divorced college instructor with some dental issues, with the fashion sense of a college student (hoodies and crocks). Also, she has been diagnosed with MS and despite my wanting to choke her w my bare hands, I would not wish MS on anyone. I do believe in time that it will not be kind to there tru wuv. Trust me, I’ve been married to this man for 13 years. He’s no one’s ‘rock’. His greatest fear is being gravely sick or disabled. Right about the time her body begins to betray her, he will too. Cruel cruel karma bus coming.

    • I’m sorry. That first year is horrible and soul crushing. I know I questioned my own value and I became very depressed and paranoid.

      My advice? Get the lawyer, come up with a settlement, get divorced. Cut any communication possible. Put or give away anything that reminds you of him. Cry a lot. Find friends who’s understand.

      Eventually you will forget he ever existed, except to infer what you were thinking.

      • Marge – ✔️Filed for divorce after one month ✔️He moved out ✔️I’m humbled by the amount of love and support I’ve received from my friends and family.
        I’ve gone no contact as much as possible. He moved out about a month ago and emailed me “well I’m settled in…I think about you all the time”. I didn’t respond.
        Its so encouraging to hear other chumps report the light at the end of the dark dark tunnel of grief. Thank you.

    • I’m sorry that you had to read right through the depth of his betrayal. You will stop obsessing soon. 3.5 months out is very raw. Obsessing is a part of PTSD. Be glad you came out before stay-home-order and take the advice, take him for all he has financially. They are more likely to give if they are in the fog of new tuw-wuv. Watch him fail later. And thank you for your compassion for MS. Being with a fuckwit will make her health detiorate. Ask me how I know. My fuckwit was at his worst when I was sick or fatigued. I’ll never forget how he yelled at me for using the walking belts at the airport. Making fun of my condition when I was good or trying to save my resources(never too tired to go shopping, mummy’s putting on an act again)
      Like yours, my fuckwit had the picture perfect life. The house, the trips, the live in help. Endless opportunities to have a great marital life even after having a baby. A protected childhood, good health. He ruined it all. Especially his health. Fuckwits with ED overdosing on the Viagra are in for some special surprises. It’s not just the heart attack risk. Read up on the effects of PDE5 brake being disturbed and auto-immunal diseases and cancer. Mine hit the jackpot.

      For now, go no contact and don’t dig into them anymore on social media. You are creating more triggers for you to deal with. Trust CN when we tell you, after the first year you will feel so much better.

      Big hugs

      • GermanChump – thanks so much for sharing your story. I truly hope that you are in a happier place and your are maintaining your health.
        I stopped spying on him and blocked him from FB once he left for good. I realized that it was just hurting me. I’m planning the block his phone number and change my email once we are thru divorce. He says that he “loves me so much and will always love me”. His love comes with betrayal and I don’t need it. I have a feeling he may try to resurface at some point and I’m not having any of it. The End.

        • The rumination is awful. My D-day was last July when he revealed his year long affair with howorker. I filed for divorce right before our 13 year anniversary. It wasn’t until sometime this past January when the thoughts stopped. I figured out who she was by looking at his FB friends to determine what coworker is married with 3 kids. Some narc 11 years older than me with a bunch of selfies and happy family photos. Cheaters always downgrade. I stopped looking at their FB, IG, etc. I was getting mad at myself bc I felt like I was thinking of him so much more daily than I ever did during the marriage. Mainly because he exhausted me during the marriage as I was the one to care for the kids, take care of the house, work full time, etc. On Dday, he had so much rage and resentment directed at me because “I didn’t put him #1 and it feels good for her to put me #1!” Well good you morons deserve each other for cheating on your spouses and never considering the impact on the kids. Having supportive friends & family, a biz to focus on, and biweekly therapy appointments have helped me reduce the flashbacks and anger. I think time will help too.

    • get through the divorce, let your anger fuel the journey. Just keep coming here, keep walking away and I promise you, you’ll find yourself in my shoes; promising another chump it’ll be better than ok.

      • Tall One – thanks so much for your encouragement. On top of the anger, it seems to be a daily exercise in letting go and grieving thing after thing after thing. I’m looking forward to getting to 4 mo post D-Day and each day is another that I survived.

  • My dad was not faithful to his first wife. My mom (who was not the OW), as his second wife, spent their entire marriage playing marriage police. Not because there was any actual evidence he was doing the same to her, but because he had a proven track record of being untrustworthy elsewhere.
    That’s what awaits cheaters who marry.

  • Schmoopie ran for the hills when she realized she wasn’t going to get the pay she envisioned and that it was going to ruin her reputation (I was telling people) so that was that. I was a parent who couldn’t stand the thought of her interacting with my child so I am glad I was spared that. My father was a cheater, and he is still with the woman who accidentally-on-purpose got pregnant after a few years of waiting for my father to leave my mother for her. They got married and have been together for around 30 years now. My mom moved on to a much securer, happier life with a guy who wasn’t perfect, but he was honest and not a cheater. My dad and his mistress? She’s with him, but he is still a self-involved narc who lost all their money gambling on the stock market, retired while she kept working, and spends his afternoons and evenings during lockdown schmoozing with old ladies who fuss over him while he teaches them mahjong. I think Schmoopie soon realized she had a blowhard Mr Collins on her hands who only really was about what he wanted and she became a Charlotte Lucas. They think they’ve won some exotic prize and then reality sets in. Hope that proves reassuring to some of you. Go find that life where you’re not just a supporting actor in Cheater’s movie.

  • I had my first near miss with Cattle Class (OW who broke us up, but there were plenty others since as well) last week when I dropped kids off to him.

    TBH it was good to know for sure they are still toxically together. He’s continued to keep her hidden for over 5 years now (were separated for 2). I’m sure he pimps her out for sex parties with his tragic guy friends who are into sex parties in his shed (read: porn addicts) like he tried doing with me. She is totally welcome to that, and his rages, his pathetic tantrums over shit not worth raging about.

    But here’s what bugs me:

    That he lies to me and has played Mr Nice Guy with me through this whole quarantine (don’t worry I didn’t believe him and didn’t fall for his act). I said I knew he’d have whoever his girlfriends are in his home when kids with me when government dictate clearly says breaking your bubble like that not ok.

    That my son (9) sleeps in his room where ex has a giant TV set up for his porn parties for 1 or more addicts. That my son might somehow absorb the toxic rapey but with consent (actually coercion) shit that goes down in there.

    That my daughter (12) is empathic like me, clearly depressed, clearly absorbing his lies, maybe my loneliness, while believing in him because she’s a good person. That she won’t open up to me and work on her mental health. She’s been invalidated her whole life by him, and for a while by me, as I slowly unravel the impact such an abusive relationship had on me and my kids. I’m working on that but he’s still there so it never ends.

    That I just can’t find connection with anyone anymore. I hope I’m just impatient (don’t want sex, just want connection with more people after I bailed on nearly my whole friend group/his enablers when I left him).

    That he won’t settle on property (I will pay him out and still he holds on) and now I have to put efforts on hold to save for freaking lawyers and court. And when we settle I’ll be over leveraged debt wise, so holding on in covid world has to be the way – May mean house price tumbles (good) May mean my retirement fund tumbles (not so good cos I need it to pay him out). The god damn uncertainty pisses me off.

    That he makes my kids lie about her and not mention her. I hate that my kids are being taught that lying is a good way to manage those you love.

    But I’m also grateful:

    I have a home and a job.

    I am lucky and good timing and planning has always been my gift. It will pay off.

    I’ve accepted no one is going to save me. I’ve surrendered to that and it was the ONE thing that led me to tolerate a shifty relationship for 15 years. I will never do that again.

    Tinder isn’t as bad as I thought it would be. Having seen proof he’s still with her, I am confident he won’t be on there to see me there. That was a big roadblock for me.


    I still wish he would just disappear. I still wish every week that I win the lottery and cancel all my debt. I know both things are impossible, but miracles happen to me.

    I’m saving. First time in my life. But I’m nervous about breaking lockdown and spending again. That is really as big a worry as I have right now. There are worse worries to have.

    • >>I just can’t find connection with anyone anymore.

      That’s the worst part. If you can fix that, everything happy in life follows. I wish I’d known that when I exited. Also, I wish I’d known the value of something like knitting, art, singing, tai chi, or whatever (which helps me connect to myself). I also wish I’d known about Polyvagal theory, which helps the nervous system lose fear/trauma and reconnect with self. I hope you have a therapist who knows about Polyvagal therapy, or the book on depression “Lost connections”. I spent a decade depressed, with I could have saved those years. Good luck, your kids sound lucky to have a sane parent. (I didn’t)

  • I’m nearly 7 years out. I had ingested quite a few, not so tasty, mile-high shit sammies served up hot and juicy by cheater ex and his “lady”.

    -I out earned him, so no alimony.
    -He didn’t want children – therefore no child support.
    -50/50 split on assets, including having to sell the marital home. 2 leased cars, he kept his, I kept mine.
    -He kept his 401k, I kept my pension (and 401k, so I came out ahead on this one).
    -Affair partner put him up to filing a restraining order against me just days after our divorce. She did an injunction against harassment against me the week prior. Ex and I were married for 17 years.

    He married his “lady”. They purchased a house around the corner from our former marital home, but, their’s is larger, with a pool. This month, they will celebrate 5 years of marriage (wasn’t this supposed to be unheard of between affair partners? – yeah, they’re obviously exceptional! (not!)). They are new parents, with a one year old son. Ex’s name will continue. I am about to turn 50, so my fertility is gone.

    I didn’t get the dream of epic, instant karma, but I no longer care. I’d still rather be me. I’ve done so much therapy and work on myself. I’m at my premarital weight and am toned. I’m doing well at work, and am a home owner. I have plenty of interest in the dating world, and more importantly, I have an amazing mutt that loves me. I’m at peace with my life, and I no longer care about them. I guess, they’re really no longer relevant to my life. I’m more interested in what the future looks like, now that I’ve dealt with the past. As a dear friend told me, “You’ve got it goin’ on, and HE can’t have it!”.

  • Whoever reads these blog comments should know the chump desire to see the horrible ex fail isn’t just some jealousy thing. Try Googling “trauma and meaning making”. To recover from PSTD, the experience must be integrated and a meaning/significance found. Cheating betrayal is a trauma for the chump. The good-riddance-cheater living out a romantic fairytale “twu luv” hinders the chump’s ability to develop positive meaning from the trauma. The chump is the one who loved truly, who therefore should receive the rewards. An evil thief stealing their happily-ever-after messes with the story sources of meaning. Finding a non-nihilistic meaning to that is a challenge.

    • Great point, that we scour reality for facts that will make past events fit together in a meaningful narrative. In my case my cheater married an AP, and it was easy to see that the narrative was they will make each other unhappy (I KNEW what being married to her was like). Though I also love CL’s narrative, “YOU were real, YOU brought your A-game, YOU loved with your whole heart. and THAT was real.” Because it’s almost universally true of chumps, and it renders the cheaters story going forward largely irrelevant.

      And yes, PTSD from cheating is a very real thing. I’m 10 years out from divorce but even now occasionally I have a flinch reflex I developed within hours of my first D-day (feels as if someone is pummeling me and I need to cover up—weird).

      • Living with a Cheater (unbeknownst to me) was not only mentally challenging (cheater mindfuck is real) but physically challenging as well. Weight gain, migraines, depression. X’s life of lies had an impact. When I was finally able to move away from my small town and x, this is when my body failed and I ended up in the hospital for an emergency surgery. My fight and flight response had been lit for the two and a half years it took him to divorce me. So, Chumps, in those first years, it is really important to self care and to get away from the toxic if you can. Disengage and go No Contact.

        • The scary part is how no one knows how much damage this causes. I wish I’d known about self care back when I was going through this.

  • I could have written exactly CL’s words about anyone but her. I really couldn’t care if he had any other woman, as long as she is nice to my kids. But not OW. Not the one who harmed them and help break their family. Ex and OW deserve each other. That is their Karma, being stuck with each other. But my kids don’t deserve their shit show or to be around them. Why do people who harm children get to be around them? That is the shit sandwich that’s the hardest to swallow and the one thing that will be hardest to ever be meh about.

    • I don’t know that I will ever understand how our cheaters leave us, believing that our marriages were so dysfunctional or controlling, and then enter the most dysfunctional affair relationships only to somehow feel like they’ve done better. It completely baffles me.

      Like really, he didn’t want a decent normal life with me, who got along with everyone. But, he thinks he’s happy with the OW, whom his family refuses to acknowledge and the few friends who have met her don’t like her. I have a great paying job that held up our family and is a vocation. She’s in aesthetics and just got caught taking in clients during the COVID shut down and it came to light that she doesn’t have a business license.

      Life with me was too hard, but life is an adultery partner that no can respect (with 3 kids that she has a poor relationship with and who don’t like him) is going to be a picnic?

      None of it makes sense which is why the idea of him being with any other woman is tolerable. Any other woman would make sense.

  • I was chumped at 25 the first time. I loved him so much and I cried for so long. I wasted three years with that a$$hat and paid off all of his credit cards. I wanted nothing more for him and schmoops to end. So I just heard from him and I am 45 now. Turns out someone told him how much money I make in my career and that I have two houses and a boat. He and schmoops did end pretty recently. Turns out she was cheating or so he says. I don’t care anymore about him. I am just glad it happened to me at 25 and not 45. Old schmoops has to start over like I did but she isn’t young and pretty with her whole life ahead of her like I was. He isn’t getting kibbles from me.

    • “Don’t look back, you aren’t going that way.” M.E. So true. Sometimes shit just happens. There is no meaning behind it. Up to us to reinvent ourselves moving forward. “I love when people that have been through hell walk out of the flames carrying a bucket of water….” CL and CN come to mind.????

  • Busy today and it’s late now but I have to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. How did you know this is the exact thing I needed to read today?

    Can’t wait until I have time to read all the comments. I need this. So very much.

  • I was upset after the affair because the OW moved on to a new guy, an innocent and fun new relationship filled with New Relationship Energy. I knew this because she lived next-door to me, and he moved in. I looked him up online and found his arrest records and the case against him he was dodging (and presumably not telling her about) where he owed the plaintiff a massive sum of cash. The case took forever to go through, which annoyed me because I was looking forward to poverty and distrust destroying their relationship. Then the pandemic happened and I was annoyed that the case might be pushed forward indefinitely. And then, one day, he was gone. They broke up for other reasons I don’t know. The case is still on hold. Makes no difference to me now. The point being: you can hold out on a revenge fantasy if that makes you feel better about things, but there’s really no need, as they’ll trash their lives their own.

  • >