‘I Believe the Other Woman Is Psycho’
Dear Chump Lady,
I found out my husband cheated on me about 2 months ago. How you ask? The woman he was sleeping with sent me a message on Facebook. I think she did it out of anger and spite because he finally called it quits with her.
We just had our first counseling appointment and he told his story of how it happened. Basically it started with her hitting on him (at work). He began to open up to her about our intimacy issues and she began to hit on him more than ever.
According to him, one night he drove to her house so they could smoke pot. That’s it. He had no idea what would happen next. Of course when she opened the door she was dressed scantily, jumped on him, and there was nothing he could do, but succumb to his needs.
He said that after that she started pressuring him and threatening him. She was threatening to tell his boss at work (they work at the same place, but not in the same department). She threatened to tell me, and threatened to physically harm his family. She showed him our photos (me, Sister, Dad, etc. — we don’t have kids). She called him things he never could have imagined and he was scared. So he continued to try and stop things, but had to agree to her terms…. for 2 years.
Of course he wanted to tell me, and tried several times, but something always happened or came up. Even when she told him that she told me, he was “trying to see if I knew”. I found at that night and then waited till 2 p.m. the next day before confronting him.
I believe that this women is psycho. I believe she did threaten him. I also believe that he was truly scared. But what I can’t believe is that he had no idea what was going to happen when he went to her house the first time. That he couldn’t find the right time to tell me in 2 years. And finally that he was so paralyzed and scared by her threats, yet he could still manage to have sex with her.
He is actually doing everything he can now to make things work. Aside from this “mistake,” he is actually a good guy. He cares about others, works his ass off, and has been nothing but supportive of me. He’s going to a counselor of his on volition. He is reading books about infidelity (and he has never read a book in his life). He is listening to podcasts and journaling. He has let me look at his phone records and texts.
I truly believe it’s over. I believe he does want to make this work and build a stronger relationship. I believe that he is truly regretful and doesn’t want this to ever happen again. But me, I don’t know what I want. I don’t know if I want to be with someone who could do that, even if it never happened again. This has changed me and us and I don’t know that I can ever be with him again.
I am going to be honest, I just found your site. I have no idea what to expect from me telling you all this. I guess I’m reaching out for any help I can get. I know you can’t give me the answer, that ultimately the decision has to be up to me. I’m just scared of making the wrong choice.
Sincerely,
Lost Soul
****
Dear Lost Soul,
I’m glad you’re thinking in terms of what you want. Excellent perspective. Is this relationship acceptable to you?
Chump Nation is a community of people who’ve been faced with the same dilemma: invest your life in someone you cannot trust, or start a new life? We’re Team #NewLife here.
We made all the wrong choices before you. There are literally millions of stories here. If you want some validation that leaving a cheater is a solid move, you’ve come to the right place.
I am your swear-y, straight-talking friend, who will not bullshit you. We’ve seen the Bitch Be Crazy Other Woman narrative before. It does not end well.
I’m not saying there aren’t some cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs side pieces out there — I’m saying your Good Husband is a liar. That bad, bad woman made him do it? The shameless hussy just threw herself at him?
He’s blameshifting. He’s taking zero responsibility for his own actions.
Basically it started with her hitting on him (at work).
He let her hit on him. He had no boundaries. Which is to say, he encouraged this behavior.
He began to open up to her about our intimacy issues and she began to hit on him more than ever.
He started devaluing you to her.
one night he drove to her house so they could smoke pot. That’s it. He had no idea what would happen next.
You get high. Maybe a case of the munchies. Whatever, he WENT TO HER HOUSE, ALONE, to enjoy a nice altered state. He had no idea what would happen next? The poor moppet. Utterly devoid of agency. How did he get home? Did a kind stranger pin his address to his sweater?
there was nothing he could do, but succumb to his needs
Quick! Fuck your way to the door and make an escape!
Nothing he could do! No friend he could phone? No weapon at hand but his dick? No words? “No thank you, I wish to go home.”
No. Nothing. He had to submit.
Someone tell the Ukrainians to try this shit on Putin. Just show up scantily clad. It’s over.
He said that after that she started pressuring him and threatening him. She was threatening to tell his boss at work (they work at the same place, but not in the same department). She threatened to tell me, and threatened to physically harm his family. She showed him our photos (me, Sister, Dad, etc. — we don’t have kids). She called him things he never could have imagined and he was scared. So he continued to try and stop things, but had to agree to her terms…. for 2 years.
Bullshit. Lost Soul, the entire Bitch Be Crazy ploy is to convince you to a) Feel sorry for him (that’s the Self-Pity channel) and b) Never compare notes with her. She’s a wild, rabid woman and there’s no telling what she might do! Most likely she’s a selfish dim person who’s been told similar things about you — you’re his crazy wife and he’s just a poor, poor man who can’t leave you.
Schmoopies get gaslighted too. It’s all part of the fun.
Who does this all benefit? Your Good Husband. Keeps everyone off his trail and keeps his entitlement safe.
And if she is a dangerous criminal? He just spent two years endangering your life. He invited this person into your world. Divorce him for that. Or his stupid lies.
Of course he wanted to tell me, and tried several times, but something always happened or came up.
It was Shark Week. The rugs needed shampooing. His cousin called.
I’m sure they were all very valid reasons for not telling you a homicidal fuckbuddy was endangering your family but only his dick could keep her quiet.
He is actually doing everything he can now to make things work. Aside from this “mistake,” he is actually a good guy.
Uh huh. And that’s why the Other Woman told you. Because he’s such a good guy, he came clean. Oh right, he was busted.
He cares about others, works his ass off, and has been nothing but supportive of me.
Except for the lying to your face for two straight years that you know of, risking your health and finances. Other than THAT support, what? He journals?
He’s going to a counselor of his on volition.
Cheaper than a divorce settlement.
He is reading books about infidelity (and he has never read a book in his life). He is listening to podcasts and journaling.
I’m sure the Reconciliation Industrial Complex will keep him in mindfuckery. He’s already doing great with the whole Bitch Set Me Up lack of accountability. There’s probably a podcast for that now.
He has let me look at his phone records and texts.
Cheaters get burner phones. Other apps. “Transparency” is an arms race you cannot win.
Lost Soul — look at the evidence. He’s lied to your face for two solid years. You wouldn’t know if he’s telling the truth now or not. If you reconcile with him, you’ll have to live with those mental gymnastics forever. That he lacks accountability. He blames others for his piss poor decisions. Those are the tools in his life skills toolbox.
As I write here a lot — sorry is as sorry does.
See a lawyer. Get a post-nup. Make him pay you back for every marital asset he spent on his affair. Now tell me the state of his sorry.
You don’t want to do that?
Then you fear the depth of his sorry too. You’re smoking hopium.
Get a settlement. Get an STD test. Start protecting yourself. Don’t put your future down on “he listened to a self-improvement podcast.”
Also, isn’t that a really lame response to a HOMICIDAL MANIAC?
Home security system? Rabid pit bull… or “Gentle Surf Sounds for Fuckwits.”
Please leave this loser.
I want to second CL’s comment here about him probably badmouthing you to her. Cheaters really are quite banal in their playbooks.
Probably? 100% certain he was badmouthing his wife to get some side pussy.
I guaran-damn-tee that she heard I love you, I’ll leave my wife for you, give me a little while to get my finances straight and I’ll be here. I think everything he’s telling you is a lie.. He went to her house to have sex and every time he had sex with her after that he did it because he wanted to. If you read on here long enough you will see every stinking excuse a cheater makes and they’re all stupid.
I bet each of us thought, early on in the process, “My situation is different. My marriage is special. My cheater would never be so banal”. I know I certainly did – and I was wrong.
So: sure, maybe Lost Soul has a unicorn. I’m skeptical, but I’m not in her marriage so I’m not privy to all the details. However, the sad truth is that she is probably not privy to all the details of her own marriage either, so the best any of us – including her – can do is make educated guesses about the best path forward. I can say for sure that, at the time when I needed to make critical decisions about the course of my marriage and my life, a lot of very important information was (deliberately) missing.
It seems pretty clear that the statistics don’t favor reconciliation. On the other hand, nobody likes to think about his or her own life as purely a statistic, so I understand the impulse to think “no, my marriage is different”. Just remember that while you may *want* to believe that your situation is unique, you don’t actually *know* that it is. Your cheater is not going to give you the complete and accurate accounting that you would need to make an individualized, informed decision about your life, so please pay attention to the Cheater’s Handbook stories here: they are likely more relevant than you believe (or want to believe).
What we know is pretty much always the very tip of the iceberg. What they confess to is what they think we already know anyway (or will soon discover) and also what is useful in terms of manipulation and story telling. This isn’t their first con … they have learned from early childhood how to lie and manipulate. Practice makes perfect. To think that they will wake up one day and suddenly stop behaving this way is ludicrous. It is just who they are. Sadly, it takes us normal people a while to catch on and learn this sad truth, especially when a lot of heartache and pain is our reward.
My post-divorce boyfriend of several years turned out to have a double life. He was allegedly a chump himself. Upon telling a close friend what had happened, her response was, “He’s probably been doing this (meaning lying) his whole life.” His whole life at that point was 72 yrs old.
Yep – my ex claimed he was a chump too – was probably the other way around.
IG is right. I personally am very anti-divorce. I’m glad I st least attempted reconciliation in my case, for my own peace of mind. Fortunately it was brief – discovered more lies within weeks of starting couples therapy. If you do decide to try and reconcile, please take CL’s advice and make sure you have all the financial ducks in a row, a signed post-nup, and all the accountability support you can muster. As others have said, statistics are not in favor of reconciliation, but if you give it a try please be wise about it.
I was so hurt that FW wanted no part of reconciliation At the time. Once Dday hit she was out. She had been planning it for years. Now I realize she did me the biggest favor
Like ChumpMD, I really wanted to try to save my marriage. Got a post-nup, he was in counseling, then we were in counseling (briefly)… only to have him cheat again. I too eventually found more and more lies that had been told to me, some going back to the day we met.
The main problem is not “seductive psycho OW,” it’s the lying cheater spouse who has told hundreds (if not thousands) of lies to you over the course of 2 years – lies by omission count too! And like others here, you are likely to find there were many more lies told to you that he hasn’t owned up to. Sorry, but he’s probably putting on an act, which he has become very good at due to lots of practice.
Yes Hopium4years – I too look back and see everything from a different perspective – and think the lies started on day 1. Each lie was told with a smidgeon of truth. I finally realized that part of the gaslighting was him pointing out the absurdity of my questioning him, emphasizing the irrefutable truth. All while drawing the attention away from the subtle lie – often a lie of omission. For example, he was telling me all about the women he was dating, except they weren’t “dates”, they were “work meetings” – with “the guys” who were not there at said work meetings. It would have been impossible to police every word of every sentence, 24/7 without a private investigator. Once I realized the way he lied, I could never believe a word out of his mouth ever again.
“The main problem is not “seductive psycho OW,” it’s the lying cheater spouse”
Yes, this.
IG your words are absolutely spot on. I hope Lost Soul reads this multiple times so maybe it will save her a lot of years of misery.
IG, exactly why my screen name is “Imma Chump Too.” I used to think I was special. That my marriage was special. That I was different. That my marriage was different. Turns out I’m just your plain ole’ everyday Chump. And my ex is just a run of the mill FW. They’re ALL the same. And none of us Chumps are above the statistics. Thinking that you are will keep you stuck on the wheel of never ending DDays. I learned that lesson the hard way. 🙁
They never, ever change their behaviour, it’s character driven – ask me how I know. First reconciliation fifteen years ago and here I am again another two years past another DD but this time awaiting that final Divorce Decree Absolute…shoulda, woulda, coulda wish I had filed back then after the first time. Get out while you can – sending you all the love x
Me too. I wish I’d filed the moment he admitted he had “feelings” for the OW. Instead I pick-me-danced for THREE AND A HALF YEARS. Cost me thousands of dollars and loads of humiliation and hurt. I fell for his “I’m so sad, I almost lost you” bullshit. He actually asked me what I would have done if “something had happened” between them. I told him I would walk away. That I had too much self respect to stay in a relationship like that. And THAT was when he started crying about how close he came to losing me. I actually moved back home (he told me he wanted a divorce, threatened not to provide any financial support if I stayed in the house, so I had left). Years later I finally put the pieces together – he had already fucked her and was testing how much I’d put up with. Then he lied. And kept lying for almost 4 years. He only admitted the affair in the divorce discovery. I had already found out plenty on my own by that point and he was backed into a corner.
He just wanted a utility wife while he went off and fucked the strange. He didn’t have to commit to/marry OW either, since, you know, I was the total bitch of a wife who was dragging out the divorce (the truth was he was the one who didn’t want to file even though he said he wanted a divorce, he was the one who dragged his feet and fought me every step of the way). He had two women vying for him. Kibbles galore, and he loved it.
I KNOW he badmouthed me OW and to all our friends. OW, in spite of knowing me and me never doing anything at all unkind to her, nevertheless hated my guts and treated me like absolute shite (how DARE I actually be in her way by being married to HER man!). She told all kinds of lies about me, including accusing me of breaking into her apartment (what??). She blamed me for how long the divorce was taking (not my doing), as well as for making FW so unhappy and angry. I was a very convenient scapegoat. He could blame all his rage and violent outbursts, his depression, his financial problems, EVERYTHING on me, while she suffered the consequences (later, once I stepped out of that messy triangulation, she learned very quickly that it had NOTHING to do with me at all, and she left him pretty quickly). All our friends welcomed the OW into their social circle and completely excluded me. They were full of congratulations for the pair of them when they announced they were dating (never mind that FW was very much still married to me, or that the affair had already been going on for three years – apparently in their minds filing for divorce is the same as actually being divorced, so it was cool to publicly announce your relationship with someone else, and if they didn’t say they were together then it didn’t count before). It was also obvious this wasn’t news to anyone (“Finally!”, “It’s about time.”, “Totally saw that coming.”, etc. – pardon me while I vomit). Not a single “friend” gave me a heads up, or checked to see how I was doing. So clearly they all thought be a total cold fish/bitch/drag and they were glad he got rid of me and found someone who REALLY loved him and appreciated his genius.
Bitch WAS legit crazy in my case, but it doesn’t really make a difference. She contacted OP in this instance as an attempt to end the marriage and get her man back (or, more likely, to get him to commit to her/go public, as I have strong doubts about the OP’s husband actually having called it quits with OW. OW is mad because the FW isn’t leaving his wife as he no doubt promised OW he would).
My advice – FILE FOR DIVORCE.
(((Hugs)))
The betrayals do stack up, don’t they? It sounds like your “friend circle” and mine are cut from the same cloth. When people condone and endorse a FW adulterous affair and congratulate two cheaters for “finding twu wuv”; this is an evil in our society that sickens. Not one fuck is given for the victim of this abuse that is adultery. Hugs to you, I saw the light. I know this pain all too well.
I had the same experience. Not a single one of them ever asked me if I was ok and they liked and posted on his facebook status about his new relationship with my replacement. What a waste of 20 years of my life. I think they’re pathetic cowards for pretending to be my friend. I can’t even imagine that. I don’t do that. If I don’t like someone I can be polite when necessary but I’m not going to hang out with them at all. I must have seemed so strange to them, being all open and honest, while they played their nasty little games with each other.
Adds to the betrayal when you see all the “likes” on fb for the new relationship along with “cute couple,” from people you considered your friends.
No one thought about checking on me or cared how I was doing after having my 20 year marriage implode. A few had to tell me they had never seen cheater so happy…. and cheater even told them he’d never been happier.., why can’t you move on and be happy Brit? Cheater is…
If I knew someone I knew had betrayed their spouse and brought the new relationship around I wouldn’t be liking it on Facebook or calling them a “cute couple.”
I’d feel bad for the person left behind. Evidently not this group.
All’s good until the next time he meets a ‘crazy’ woman with the hots for him. Self-defence lessons need to be added to his ‘personal makeover’ agenda. If a burglar breaks into the home, Lost Soul’s husband is going to be inviting them for tea and biscuits and a nice chat. Still, he tells a good story. Should keep women with the hots and burglars entertained for hours.
Agreed. All’s good until he meets the next available/willing “temptress.” So really, all’s not good. All’s just biding it’s time.
“I truly believe it’s over. I believe he does want to make this work and build a stronger relationship. I believe that he is truly regretful and doesn’t want this to ever happen again.”
And I believe that it will happen again. Because everything you’re saying and describing sounds exactly like my XH after D-Day #1/GF#1 and GF#2. They were just bad, bad women and he was powerless to resist them. The real victim in all of that was, of course, him.
I ate that all up. I wanted them to be bad women. I wanted him to be powerless to resist their extramarital charms. I wanted him to be the victim of women. The OW’s victim (“I can’t believe I left you and moved in with her! She was so crazy and jealous and I was miserable”) and, as he put it constantly, my victim (“I was vulnerable to her because I felt unloved and unappreciated by you”). I accepted his narrative of victimhood because the victimhood story is a dangling carrot for us chumps (“You poor dear! I’m so sorry that you were vulnerable to the charms of OW.
I’m so sorry I never made you feel special”) because that narrative makes us feel like we can do something! We can apologize!
We can bend over backwards to make the FW feel like he’s the star of the show! We can lose weight.. gain weight.. stop spending time with the kids… start spending more time with the kids… whatever he wants we can do it! We. Can. Fix. This.
Lies. Smoke and mirrors. There is no “I’m just a poor innocent cheater who has no accountability for my choices” like they are framing themselves to be. My H kept up this act (that I bought into because I wanted to believe that he was capable of telling the truth about something… anything) until he had found what he was looking for: his next mistress. And as he was packing his suitcases to move into her place, leaving me and the kids again, he trotted out the same lack of accountability: “I’m sorry. GF#3 and I never expected this to happen; it just happened.”
(I never expected this to happen when I kept sneaking out at night. I never expected this to happen when I hid her from you and messaged her constantly in secret. I never expected this to happen when we agreed that I should leave my wife and move into her house while still married. Totally unexpected! I am fortune’s fool.)
I used to be Team “I trust you/it will never happen again.” Now I’m Team “Sigh… it will always happen again.” There’s a reason why they say “once a cheater, always a cheater.”
I’m team “cheating is about character, cheaters are abusive, and cheaters/abusers don’t change.” I believed and still believe that under certain circumstances, my ex *might* not cheat again. He swore this up and down even after I stopped caring WTF he did, with whom. I don’t believe this because he said so, because he’s a lying cheater and I don’t trust anything he says. I believe it’s possible because his reason is that *he* doesn’t ever want to go through that hell again. It wasn’t worth it.
However, he’s an entitled, manipulative, cowardly, lying, short-sighted idiot with impaired impulse control and empathy. He’s just as likely to cheat again, even if he truly believes in his alleged mind that he won’t. He broke every promise he ever made to me without conscience.
I am also reminded that although I know him better than anyone (I lived with him for years and am the only person who has seen through the lies), I really don’t know him. Once I saw some evidence of the OW’s and porn — and experienced the post dday escalation of abuse — I decided to leave the rest of that skein untangled; that “alone” was shocking and disgusting to turn me away from him forever, and I didn’t want or need more details. The fuckwit led a double life for at least seven years and hid the severity of his alcoholism for a decade prior to that. While I remained a loyal and loving partner, he not only cheated on and me and emotionally and financially abused me — he physically abused me and lied about me. Who knows what he was actually up to or what he’s capable of. He’s not a man of his word and he’s not to be trusted.
PS – To clarify, I’m nearly certain he would’ve cheated on me again. Within a week of me moving away in spite of his tearful pleas and promises, FW “re”connected with the “scary, stalker” AP who “practically raped” him. (Final dday I learned they never cut contact so had been in communication for years between affairs.) And she wasn’t even the most recent AP! Even if there weren’t others in the wings, the deception and devaluation was baked into our “relationship” at that point. We were years past the point of no return long before DDay 1 was even a twinkle in my eye. Lost, unicorns are pretend.
“I slipped on a banana peel and my wanker doodle fell into her coochie snorcher. I was an accident I was not planning for!”
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I think the OP’s saying “he never wants this to happen again” is what jumped out at me. He doesn’t WANT this to happen again????? Surely there’s an easy way to fix that!
Yes. Note also the total lack of accountability in the wording of this: it “happened.” No one is responsible, not then or in the future should “it” “happen” again. Which it will. Sounds like a bad case of timid forest creature.
Yeah. Sounds all too familiar.
x sidestepped responsibility with these blame-shifting nuggets:
“It just happened.”
“She flirted with me. I’m naive.”
“I know the games she plays.”
I’m not sure what’s worse, the cheating or being such a wuss about it.
Apparently, the temptress and TFC’s dick had their way with each other (for YEARS) without any say on FW’s part. He’d have me think he was reading the bible while those two went at it. As for all the lying, well, that was to protect him and OW from what he anticipated (correctly, by the way) would be oh-so-angry reaction, which fits CL’s “It’s not what I did, it’s your reaction to it.”
All of this is very humbling for me. I’m not special. Just a chump. X is your garden-variety FW. OW is…eh, who cares?
Spinach, I agree before CL, I thought I was alone. Then I found there are so many other chumps and our stories are not strikingly different. So we are part of the garden variety chump where we all wondered the same things, went through a similar process. This was actually a help for me knowing that others were going through the same thing and I was not to blame for his cheating. FWs are pretty run of the mill as well. They spew similar lines, tell the same lies and I have wondered if their is a Cheater’s Handbook somewhere. Unlike a FW who always wants to be special, I was happy to know I was not special.
I think the part that kind of gets to me is these FWs are filled with talk about how horrible and crazy the chump is but during the divorce process they do everything they can to slow down the process. You would think that they would want to be rid of a horrid, raging, angry troll of a wife. Of course, I have seen in my case that FW doesn’t want to split assets. Bottom line is that they will try anything rather than deal with consequences be it counseling, working on things, mediation, etc.
It also helped to see that other chumps go through multiple ddays, Pick Me, etc. Still perplexing, mortifying and frustrating, but at least I know it’s “normal.”
*my oh-so-angry reaction
IMO this post is so pathetic. I truly feel for her but it’s so obvious she’s not facing reality. We here have all been there in one way or another but eventually we have to face the truth for ourselves. He’s lying, gaslighting and probably still having the affair. No accountability! How can she accept what he’s telling her? Just reading this post makes me blood pressure rise.
Hopefully she will gain her self respect and divorce the cheating POS.
She deserves better.
This is what she wrote: “But me, I don’t know what I want. I don’t know if I want to be with someone who could do that, even if it never happened again. This has changed me and us and I don’t know that I can ever be with him again.”
What’s pathetic about that? She is trying to evaluate and analyse a very difficult and unprecedented situation, and I find her to be very self-aware and honest. Her life has been turned upside down, and she is uncertain about everything, yet she still has the presence of mind to look at the situation from different angles. You come across as very judgemental, and this kind of behaviour is exactly the reason why I never shared my story here before. I hope you lived up to your own standard of nonpathetic perfection!
I reacted the same. I could feel my blood pressure rise.
OP has a master cake eater on her hands who wants her to believe FW’s dick accidentally fell into OW’s vagina. And kept falling in for two years to protect OP.
Unbelievable what delusions FW’s come up with!
Ohhh my, gotta grab my muck boots for this one…for over 700 hundred days he deceived you, continued at the same place of employment with her and he “says he was afraid of what she’d do.” You will begin to uncover more of his deception as time goes on, those v8 moments that come out of nowhere. He was able to deceive you without trying and now he’s got to switch it up so he can continue with his cake eating and image/ impression management. It’s not a mistake to bring another relationship into a marriage, it’s a choice. He got caught, he wasn’t sorry before he got caught. He didn’t do the work needed NOT to cheat on you. How would he feel if you did the same to him? That is the bell ringer there. I found that I tried to choke down “the mistake” and I couldn’t. I couldn’t reconcile how a person who claimed to love me would do such a thing, and then the resentment came. Its inevitable unless you fundamentally change your core values to accommodate a person who has none. He will do it again if you stay, or continue it, because he can and will. Condoning his behavior means you changed from the person he “fell in love with” and will excuse his behavior in the future. He’ll use that as the next excuse. Get him out while you can, separate at the least and watch his behavior after he’s moved out. I bet my muck boots that you will be appalled at what he does. They don’t change, cheating is crossing a moral line that cannot be walked back. You deserve better, you can’t pick and choose what lies you want to believe when dealing with someone who deceived you for over 700 days, that’s over 16,000 hours, two sets of holidays, birthdays, dinner dates, sleeping in the same bed nights. Just remember, it was all him, it had nothing to do with you. It wasn’t and isn’t your fault. The choice you make going forward though, is yours. Take back your life, the one he’s trying to steal from you
“Get him out while you can, separate at the least and watch his behavior after he’s moved out. I bet my muck boots that you will be appalled at what he does”.
☝☝☝ This can be *really* appalling. Sometimes I think I am hallucinating all the crazy and shameless stuff my FW XW has been doing since I left her. Nope, it’s just her being her. Free of constraints, knowing that I will keep my mouth shut.
Let him start being afraid of what you and your divorce lawyer are actually going to do.
I say yes to watch his behavior once he moves out or you kick him out. Ex was a sweet, gentle, caring soul – my best friend of over 26 yrs. Once I discovered his cheating, he turned into a warlock. He would yell & scream which caused me to burst into tears because I becoming afraid of him. He had the water turned off telling the utility that he no longer lived there. That was true BUT I still lived there & didn’t know until I came home from work that day. He said he would give me $$ to pay bills & he never did until the courts stepped in. Never in a million years would I think he could be that person. I still shake my head after all these years, sometimes even shedding a few tears.
Hurt1: my Dad was the same way. We all thought he was this quiet gentle man until he started running around on my mom. Now we don’t have anything to do with him as he turned into a self-centred twat. It sure is mind-boggling to our entire family!
I had a sweet kind and gentle husband too. I thought I was the luckiest woman to have met him. Then I found out about the affair and then another one, etc until 6 D-days piled up. And I STILL thought I could fix this, that we were special. He also said he was scared of what the OW would do if he ended it. Wreckonciliation was a gigantic pity party about how sad and broken he was.
After the final d-day, where a friend told me she’d seen him with his tongue down the throat of my best friend some years ago I said enough.
The reality shift when you realise just who they really are is unbelievably painful.
Like coming out of a cult.
It is scary when they turn mean. I was for the last few months before Dday getting more afraid. He was screaming at me over the stupidest shit. I was afraid to escalate it.
I think the only thing that stopped him from turning off my utilities when he left was he (unknown to me at the time) was desperately trying to save his ass at work. The city admin would have been super pissed to have a public spectacle.
And had he done that to me, I for sure would have called the mayor and told him what he did and given the mayor a chance to quietly get it resolved. That gave me a little power, thank God.
He knew he was fucking around for years and planning to leave me for at least a couple years, he owned me some time to adjust, and he owed me money.
Hurt1,
Everything you said, that’s my story. The dbag was my first and only boyfriend, best friend for 30 years, married for 24. He was quiet and gentle. He was socially awkward, a hard worker, generous with the kids and me. He was a nerd. Fast forward to D-day, found out that he actually lived with another woman for 3 years! Whenever he was out of town for work, he was actually living in her house, with her kids, having birthday parties, shopping for prom. What the fucking hell. How I found out? Stumbled upon their sex videos on his phone. The divorce process was long and harrowing simply because there was so much awfulness unfolding daily. He was simply a con man who committed fraud daily. Like you said, once the mask was off and he was kicked out of the house, he turned into a warlock. He didn’t turn off our water, but he deactivated everything he could, including the WiFi (at the height of school shutdowns with 3 kids at home), the TV, and even the dang printer which he could apparently control with his phone. It has been 2 years since D-day and the divorce was final last year, but he is still in psycho revenge mode. Refusing to pay alimony, pay tuition, pay for school lunch. This year, he greeted my son for his birthday on the wrong day. And in that same greeting, said he will not contact my son for 6 months since no one is being nice to him. He has shown his ugly head to me and the kids, and it is UGLY. We are in a daily horror show.
I fear that you are dealing with a full fledged sociopath, if not worse…please be careful and stay safe.
Chumpupthejam,
Sending ((hugs)). Post divorce boyfriend had a double life & the other girlfriend didn’t know about me either. CL posted my letter regarding this con job just about a year ago. It’s been a rough ride from best friend now ex running away from a 24 yr marriage to having a con man boyfriend. Envious of those chumps here who find normal companions after divorce.
26 years, 25 married, 4 kids. I thought he was my best friend. Then Dday #s 1-10+. . . The mask slipped when I imposed boundaries of a post-nup, lie detector, treatment for him (he is an addict too — who knew?! he lies about everything and apparently always did). I WANTED him to be who I thought he was. I spackled until I almost believed my own lies about him. I found CL and at first it was excruciating to read the advise here. I was smoking hopeium big time but the facts kept pulling me back to reality. He entered the solid rage phase. I had nothing to work with. I divorced, got everything at trial, built a new life. Fast forward 7.5 years, XH is literally a shit show mess. More malignant than ever. Cheats on OW, lies to everyone about everything. Sick with alcoholism, drug addiction, memory loss, heart trouble — has aged 20 years in 7. He’s disgusting but I still find myself disbelieving all that and fantasize that maybe it wasn’t that bad, maybe he’s changed. . . nope. Still the same narcissist with BPD (diagnosed), entitled, lying, addicted POS. I trust he sucks. No contact is key.
I have a feeling this is the road my ex-spouse is travelling towards. He also has been living a double life of random unprotected sex hook-ups for YEARS with men, women, couples, groups…I never thought he could ever betray me…he promised and reassured me over and over again. The level of lies and deceit was unreal…not to mention the total lack of respect and care to expose me to all kinds of STIs!! Unforgivable! I’ve never experienced anything like this before. He presented as a loving, loyal man with integrity…but he was the total opposite! He is likely now trying to push down his guilt (if he has any) with alcohol, drugs, and lots of unprotected sex, of course. He’s a total loser and so glad I got out when I did. Good riddance!
I’m sorry, Hurt1. Unbelievable Jekyll and Hyde. That is my story too. ????
Lost Soul, girl RUN. Don’t do this. He is a known liar and cheater. There are millions of men who won’t lie to you and cheat on you. There are about 160 million men in the United States. That cheater? You can do better.
When you forgive a cheater they just take it as permission to cheater again. They learn to despise you for giving them another chance. Cheaters hate you for seeing them for who they are and loving them anyway. Love yourself more. Divorce this cheater.
Powerful thought…they despise us…
If you think you are being kind, feeling for them, believe in them- they have contempt for you and your willingness to give in to the total BS. They see you as gullible, weak and desperate.
“How can they respect someone
like that..???”
So -you hurt yourself by trying to “ believe in them”.
Actually we are made into desperate people by the trauma bonding. The fear of being abandoned seems like the worst hell, and then they exploit the fact that their manipulation and threats have made us weak.
A catch -22 hell. If you throw them out- you lose the life you have worked so hard to sustain, if you give them another chance(s) you are pathetic and despised.
What a horror.
Cheat, not cheater. Ugh.
I actually think that typo is great: To Cheater again. ????
Can I just point out that the only evidence you have that this woman is crazy is the word of a lying liar who lies?
A seasoned, ocean-going class liar who lied to you for two solid years that you know of?
Such a good point!!
We’re so accustomed to believing them…and, let’s face it, chumps want to believe that the OW is bat-shit crazy–that we forget the source of our information. I have no doubt that x spreads lies about ME. They lie! It’s what they do.
Btw, one reason I think that x’s and OW can’t possibly be happy is that their entire first two years of their relationship was built on a foundation of lies. Termites love that shit. At the very least, I would guess each is suspicious of the other (both were married when they started the affair). In my not-at-meh fantasy, x blames OW/wifetress for screwing up his life.
I’m not sure cheaters always cheat again, but I have no doubt that they continue to lie. It’s habit. It’s who they are.
“I’m not sure cheaters always cheat again, but I have no doubt that they continue to lie. It’s habit.” AGREED.
Exactly!
And the best way he could think of to protect his family from a violent, deranged stalker … was with his magic dick.
Lost Soul: I feel your pain. Please read and reread everything CL says. She is truthful. your husband is not. Did he not know it is wrong to discuss issues he is having with you with someone who is hitting on him? Did he not know when someone is beginning to hit on him? Or when someone of the opposite sex who has been hitting on him invites him alone to her house….? At least he is not saying he does not know why etc. You have invested in a liar, cheater, etc. who does not know what another woman who is hitting on him wants when she invites him to a party for two (does not include you) and he did not even figure it out when she came to the door scantily clad. He did not even know what to do when he, you and other members were being threatened (supposedly) by OW, nor did he know he could report the threats, get a restraining order, etc. He did not know. I smell a RAT. I think he is making excuses and is a big LIAR who had no concerns until she told him you knew. This may not be his first rodeo and will not be his last. Read everything you can on this site about cheaters who are lie and betray. Read some of the stories of cheaters keeping on cheating even during counseling, etc. Best of luck to you in your recovery from the RAT. RATS are RATS. How many do you know who changed?
And he absolutely came onto her.
Of course. His story is so over-the-top that she should be insulted that he thinks she’s going to buy it. But hopium gets in the way.
And then he came into her, repeatedly, for two years!
This. He pursued her.
The “ She wants meeee!!!!” line is a bastion of losers and skirt chasers. Decent men don’t spout this one. It’s only the inadequate ones who want their self esteem shored up by female attention.
You might consider taking to her. For all you know he’s engaged to her or even had another family with her. He really doesn’t want you communicating with her and you need to consider why that would be.
“The “ She wants meeee!!!!” line is a bastion of losers and skirt chasers. Decent men don’t spout this one.”
Yeah, this red flag was waved in my face early on… like, when we were just dating right out of high school early on. He would tell me all about the “really hot lady who came onto him at work” story which always ended with him rejecting her, hand on heart, because he was too noble, pure, and loyal to be swayed. Later, he delighted in reminding me that there was a girl in our college class who desired him. She kept telling him (his story) that “FW, if you weren’t engaged to Fourleaf, I would so ask you out on a date.”
I didn’t see any of these early events as red flags. I just thought I was the luckiest girl on Earth because women wanted him but he was true-blue-loyal to me and me alone. I thought I had won the lottery.
I was such an easy mark from day one.
This made me recall things I haven’t thought about for decades and shed a new light on them.
FW and me met while we were teenagers. When we got into college she would only start six months after me, so she went back to her hometown, a 5 hours bus travel away from me. During this six months long-distance relationship she would get furious for me doing as much as talking to a female cousin or going to a BBQ with my classmates. I immediately dropped both. These would be just the first of many things I would drop down the line, little did I know (my only hobby,
then med school, lately my dream position, etc.). But I digress. What I was going to say is that during these months she every now and then would “disclose” to me that someone (more than one person) who washave been interested in her showed up at her parents’ house and wooed her. And that she felt “wobbly” about that. Now, with hindsight, I see the same kind of “indecision” between me and AP she hinted at during DDays. The “fog” we all know so well. And she gladly highlighted all the perks my “rival” du jour had as compared to me. And I pick-me danced hard. From early days. One day she pointed out a certain model of SUV parked at the sidewalk we were strolling by, holding hands. I asked ‘yes, and…?’. She told me it was the exact model one of her “suitors” had. I was hurt, angry and speechless. I was underage to drive then. My second semester into college (her first) she “disclosed” to me that she once made out with a classmate of mine at a party (she used to go to school at his hometown) some years before we met. Not just any classmate. The most handsome guy. Tall, blonde, blue eyed, all that I am not. One day we were chatting and I told him that I was aware of the circunstances in which he and my girlfriend met, that he could chill out, no hard feelings and all that. I can never forget his looks at that moment. So far I believed it was either plain awkwardness (I am socially awkward and was probably more so at 17) or him caught off-guard for a fight that could break out at that moment (it wasn’t my plan though). But now… I don’t know, I think it could have been one of two things: either ‘making out’ was a huge euphemism or they have never made out. In fact, I never saw him even acknowledging her presence, as an acquaintance would surely do. And he looked quite confused. He stared at me without blinking and was like ‘met Rasputia?… oh, yeah… so you’re aware… I met her … and you’re cool with that? Okay…’. Now these episodes of clear triangulation are all coming back. There was a lot of them all along the marriage (we moved in together the year of these events). As of late, it was how much her middle brother, her bosses and the husbands of her acquaintances earned and how they travelled a lot. The sexual undertones of the threats of discard became more subtle than in her teenage years. Funny I only got to recall it now. She was quite convinced of her attractiveness then (and seems to be again now) because she was blonde, had a beautiful bosom and had “good hair” (a shockingly racist phrase here in Brazil). Oh, and all her friends (?) hated her (??) because of her straight blonde hair (???). I think she was overcompensating because her teeth were jammed (she got them fixed up) and she had some issues with her legs. I am honestly not trying to make fun of her now, she did feel shame and it was sad. Neither the teeth nor the veins in the legs were such a big deal, but she would say they were hiddeous. So she fixed her teeth and covered her legs. And felt smoking hot instantly. For some years now she has been all into aesthetic procedures and I can tell by the time of the affair she was utterly convinced of her deliciousness. And I will not lie, I thought she was delicious all right (before any upgrade – I asked out the girl with jammed teeth). But what transpires to me now is how much cornering me into one of the vertices of a triangle enhanced her libido. Be it a love triangle with an AP or a “suitor” of hers (real or imaginary, I have my doubts now), or a “platonic” or “incestuous” one. I wonder if she is not trying to corner me and her boyfriend to two angles right now, just he being in the more acute one now. Poor guy. And poor girl (now a fucker, yes, but I am pretty sure she was fucked up a long time ago by her FOO, as a girl). It is sad to realize that the mother of my children is so fucked up of the head that she thinks she is just loved as much as there is some (real or imaginary) fight over her. That she just can get off on being an object of dispute by men, a prize. And what does it say about my own fuckupedness that I spackled over all that and turned myself into a doormat to someone with so glaring issues? Still plenty of work to be done on myself.
Talking to a whore would be a waste of time. This is a person who feels entitled to fuck a married man. You don’t get the truth from such people.
It’s only a waste of time if you want to hear the truth. If you want information, then it could be valuable. You can learn a lot from the lies that people tell. Sometimes more than the truths they tell.
I think you are right but maybe talking to her can wait. Maybe get a PI to get details. If it is still going on and he is on the way out(which he very well may be), her not knowing may help you negotiate a settlement. Plus you have no way of knowing she is yelling the truth. She invested 2 years in your husband and is probably not willing to let go in order to do the right thing.
I do believe in unicorns. This guy is absolutely not one for all of the reasons above. Someone here once said, remember the cheater is no longer your friend or safe space. They have been conspiring against you all along and will most likely keep doing so. She is not concerned with being a good and honest person. She outed him to break you up. He did not tell you, he smiled in your face and went back to a dirty slut and told her intimate details of your life. Whatever you are most sensitive about, he told this whore and they laughed at you. This is how they operate. If you look closely you will see that he is not a good guy and everything he does is for show. All of the advice here is spot on.
Do not say another word to him about this. You need to start protecting yourself. Do not sleep with him and lawyer the fuck up! He is not and I repeat not a unicorn! If it happened one time and he confessed immediately and took responsibility we would be having a totally different conversation. None of these things happened.
Do not do anything that will harm yourself physically or financially. Getting STD tested as a married person will forever change your impression of him.
This site is new to you but it will save your life!
With all due respect, Lost Soul has all the info she needs. Question is what will she do with the info. OW outed him for OW’s benefit. OW got impatient waiting for FW to be hers alone, seems she is not so happy. Ask me how I know. I believe Unicorns are about as likely to exist as porn addicts are to be free of their addiction. FW is happy because he can spin some yarns about not knowing what to do or screwing someone for two years to protect his family and Lost Soul believes he is a good guy….OW is not so happy. FW and OW will do anything for their own happiness. Lost Soul does not fit in with this scenario. There is nothing there for her but lies and more lies, more betrayal and FW may just want to have his cake and eat it too and not have to split assets and pay support, etc. Lost Soul may need counseling to decide if this crap is acceptable to her or not. She has been fed so much BS that being in a fog is understandable. We all wanted to believe our FWs were not FWs but were really who we thought they were when we married them. So as chumps we try to believe that our FWs aren’t as bad as they look to those who are not in the fog. I wish the best for Lost Soul and hope she spends a lot of time reading the valuable info on this site and also that she will let us know how she is doing and that she chooses herself as the winner.
This is not a good man. Just a good liar.
“Good liar…” Heck, can’t he tell something that is believable.
TWO years, and he initiated it. He didn’t tell until he got caught. He views himself as a helpless male driven by urges he can’t control. Ah, no.
At the very least, get yourself a post-nuptial.
The reality though is that he’s a lying manipulator. I don’t know how you could live with someone in that deep. I agree that it is a horrible character issue. There are millions of guys out there who say no and stick it out with their spouses for years and years, but not this one.
I know how she lived “with someone in that deep.” I was there. I was desperate to save my marriage, my 26-year-investment. In my case the relationship was 11 years, not two. Like Lost Soul, I didn’t find out until the skank outed him. Apparently he told her that he was going to divorce me and after 11 years she was tired of waiting and told me. I smoked that hopium so hard and chose to believe a proven liar. Lost Soul, please trust us. He is lying to you. “The bitch is crazy” defense is because he got outed by the skank. And he’s hoping you believe him. But think about it. Two frickin’ years he kept dipping his dick to keep it under wraps?! Two years!! Don’t be like me. Put that hopium pipe down and just get out. Don’t waste anymore of your time on him. Get divorced. Truly. If he’s that great of a guy and remorseful for what he did, he’ll divorce you and give you everything he can to make your life good without him in it. But he won’t. And he’ll spin it that it will be your fault that you lost the ability to trust him. It will be all your fault – again. Fuck that shit and shut it down now.
And to expand on what Amazon said, if he’s that great of a guy and does the work on himself and really is a Unicorn, you can always get remarried after you’ve divorced (with a fair settlement). The point is to put your interests first and then see what he does to prove his Unicorn status.
Ex filed 3 months after dday – yet another blindsided moment. At that point I was delirious with pain, disbelief & toking hopium. I said to my therapist that I could get divorced & then once we worked it out we could get remarried (pre Chump Lady days). Her response, said sarcasticly, was “ok, you go ahead & do that.” She knew from our 1st meeting that he was a classic cheater. I’ll never forget the day she said, “honey, he’s never coming back.” He was a runaway – gone 3 weeks after dday. I could walk to her office & on the way home that day I had wished that a car would just the curb & kill me. Those fuckers have no clue about the fall out in their wake to get to schmoopie.
“Those fuckers have no clue about the fall out in their wake to get to schmoopie”.
I think at least some of them do have a clear idea of the pain they’re inflicting on us and revel in it.
Some of them are pretty jealous of their chumps before they’re in the throes of an affair and manifest almost paranoid fears of abandonment (mine did). So, I can’t help but think a great part of the pain they inflict on us is indeed intentional and part of the thrill. I am not qualified to delve into the reasons for that, but in my layman opinion cheating sometimes is sort of a preemptive strike once the chump start showing some autonomy and FWs feel unwarratedly they can become obsolete or be abandoned (because they’re capable of casual abandonment). My FW XW manifested those fears verbally and explicitely to me when she was already having her affair unbeknownst to me. And the nasty stuff they do atop of cheating that hurts us even more (badmouthing us, lying, gaslighting, stealing, hitting us, humiliating us) I think may be sort of a misguided revenge for all they suffered from these unwarranted fears of them. It’s one of the few ways I can make sense of the sheer ammount of hatred, vindictiveness and aggression they target us with and their indignation as if they were the wronged party. My XW said many times I abandoned her for divorcing her, even though she continued her affair during wreconciliation. Yesterday I commented that I don’t buy that FWs believe their own bullshit, but now that I come to think of it, maybe I was wrong. They may not believe intellectualy in their blatant lies and smear campaigns, but maybe some of them do *feel* threatened. My point is, if these mere fears of abandonment are upsetting enough to put an affair in motion, then FWs must know that real abandonment and betrayal are very painful. I think it’s just their kill-or-be-killed mindset kicking in and that they don’t validate anyone else’s feelings. Just a hypothesis that may very well be wrong. Untangling FWs skeins is a futile exercise, anyway. I just struggle to achieve a compromise between not completely dehumanizing my FW XW and holding her accountable (in my mind, lest I fall in self-recriminations) for her hurtful acts against our family and me.
It really does a number on our minds. I look back and wonder how I got anything done when it was all falling apart and marvel at how scrambled i was.
I refused reconciliation, and my ex kicked off the divorce process. I had to agree.
I still asked my attorney in the intake appointment if any of his clients had ever called it off or remarried later. Forty-plus years of divorce law, and of course he had seen that. He noted though that more than a few of his clients had seen the true nature of their spouses during the divorce process and were very glad to close the door on having any kind of meaningful contact ever again.
Yes, he was right. I was so fed up by the time we finally could close the file over two years later that I had zero doubt that he had to be completely out of my life.
Lost soul, no matter what he does or says now is completely irrelevant. Had he so much as a crumb of integrity, the minute she started coming on to him, which I highly doubt is the real story, he would have come home and sat down and talked to you about it. He would have reported her to HR. He would have discussed it with his boss. When the threats started, he could have gone to the police and filed a restraining order. (Something you can do now if you fear for your safety.) There are hundreds of actions he could have taken, but he fucked her for two years instead. And he will do it again, if not with crazy bitch, it will be someone else.
I have a mantra… he wasn’t sorry when you didn’t know. What happened exemplifies the true essence of his character. It is not a blip, mistake, or momentary lapse in judgment. It is mighty painful, but you must come to grips with the fact that he has zero regard, concern, or respect for you. And you did not cause that. He is simply an asshole and a jerk, one you don’t deserve and would be better off without.
TheDivineMissChump, “I have a mantra… he wasn’t sorry when you didn’t know. What happened exemplifies the true essence of his character. It is not a blip, mistake, or momentary lapse in judgment. It is mighty painful, but you must come to grips with the fact that he has zero regard, concern, or respect for you. And you did not cause that. He is simply an asshole and a jerk, one you don’t deserve and would be better off without.”
Well said!!
“He wasn’t sorry when you didn’t know.”
This is perfect.
“(he) Cheater wasn’t sorry when (you) Betrayed didn’t know”
????????The Divine Miss Chump,
Your mantra is powerful. ????⚡️
I got the “Bitch Be Crazy” routine from several cheaters. It serves a dual purpose: they get to discredit you as a source of truth and an innocent victim AND they get to reap sympathy at the same time.
Several of my exes went to therapy (although as it turned out, not for being lying cheaters but for other likely made up things like ADD or anxiety/depression – you’ll never know what’s really discussed unless you’re there). They read books. They were super-nice. Until they weren’t. Again.
If you man is really that worried about the crazy ex-Schmoopie, why doesn’t he file a restraining order against her to protect you and your family? I’ll tell you why: because that means putting things in writing, attesting to them and having a hearing where Schmoopie gets to tell her side of the story. No way he wants that to happen unless he’s 100% telling the truth. And the fact that he hadn’t filed for an RO tells you he’s lying.
They do not change. Lying and using are deeply imbedded in their DNA. No amount of performative remorse will make your relationship whole again and the remorse won’t last. Get out while you can and start over with someone who cares about you.
Seriously, if your cheater’s story is “true”, then this coworker has been *blackmailing and raping* him for 2 years! So these real crimes should be reported to the police, and the HR department at their workplace. I’d insist on it! And watch how quickly the investigation reveals it all to be a steaming pile of cheater bullshit.
I know and CN knows how hard it is to be smacked in the face with reality. You saw this person as one thing and now he isn’t that. I think you’re trying to find the good in him and to make sense of what he did. We all get it. The most liberating thing you can do for yourself is let go. You can’t make sense if it because he isn’t who he said he was from the start. And honestly, there is probably a lot more you don’t know. He didn’t shut her advances down. He didn’t say no to going to her house. He knew exactly what he was doing. And he knew it would hurt you. The way I see it is do you want to be in a relationship with someone who does things that purposefully hurt you? I know all this is probably hard to hear and the pain feels unbearable but it gets better once you stand up for yourself.
Good Morning Lost Soul and welcome to CN,
Today is your opportunity to work on you. Listen to CL. Divorce him today, NO CONTACT, remember he sucks.
CN and CL will guide you and in a few months you’ll be like “ewwww, and you will toss everything about him in the bin.”
The rest is challenging— depression, loneliness, heartache, self esteem and on and on, but day by day you get stronger and become awesomer.
Remember he sucks and there are many amazing men out there so be thankful you got out early. Perhaps he’s a unicorn, but why have a unicorn when you can have a stallion? Good luck.
Have a great day.
Lost Soul, get the fuck out now before he drags you into the depths of hell doing this to you for YEARS. One day later in life you can wake up scratching your private parts till they bleed bc he’s given you an STD, drained your bank account, and ran off with another “Crazy Bitch” or you can wake up sane, healthy, and happy.
Hey Lost Soul, consider for a moment if you would have gone to a HoWorker’s house to get high. And if you did the minute they came in to you would you have stayed? Or would have as Chump Lady stated so perfectly “Fucked your way to the door.” and left.
His story is bullshit. Your intuition is screaming at you. Perhaps that is why you are here seeking the hard truth? Listen to yourself and get the fuck out.
Lost Soul, Sounds to me like he is a an all you can eat delicious kibble buffet. He has you pick me dancing and the OW too. Wow, what could give him more kibbles that that? He lied, he held back the truth from you until you got that message from OW. He was enjoying the kibble feast. More simply, he destroyed trust. You have to ask yourself if you want to live without trust. Is that acceptable to you? Do you want to be the marriage police? Did she rape him or was this with his consent? Truthfully, I think you need stop the hopium. He sounds like your average run of the mill cheater going by the standard cheater script. Counseling with a cheater will not help, it only helps him because somehow he can find a way to blame you for his cheating. If you need it get individual counseling or simply lawyer up and see what your options are. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with a cheater?
A grown-ass married man went to another woman’s house to smoke pot?
Even if he’s not still cheating (he is), you deserve to be in a relationship with a man who acts like an adult and not a teenager.
This is the CliffNotes synopsis right here ????????????????
Didnt we see this plot in Fatal Attraction where the wife has to save Michael Douglas from the Crazy other woman by actually fighting her off and killing her in order to stop her lusting after him??? I suppose this could have happened. I knew an other woman who called the wife, triggering the break up. So it works… eventually. But if you stay, the whole situation will make you crazy too. Let me guess. You have lots of assets he’d have to split. You’re probably easier to deal with. Despite your intimacy issues, it’s easier to keep you because assets. OW doesn’t really have much to offer other than the V. Think like he thinks.
Here’s my theory of what actually happened with your husband and schmoopie:
They start flirting at work. Maybe she flirted first, maybe he did. Doesn’t matter. Happily married men don’t flirt with other women, even if they start first. They shut it down immediately or before it can even start. He was absolutely hoping for sex when he went over to her house to “smoke pot” at night. Happily married men do not go to coworker’s houses at night for any reason. He happily continues his affair while enjoying your services as a wife appliance at home. Schmoopie wants to get married, so she tells him to end it with you. After all, she believed his sad sack story about your lost intimacy, so it should be an easy choice for him, right? But he’s perfectly happy the way things are. So he lies to schmoopie and continues lying to you. He eats cake. Schmoopie decides she’s had enough. She issues an ultimatum: either you tell your wife or I do. He doesn’t tell you, or he “tells” you in such a passive roundabout way you have no idea what he’s talking about. Schmoopie realizes he won’t tell you, so she does. Now husband is trotting out his story of victimhood. He says he forced her and he’s afraid of what she might do because as a woman, like every other woman on the planet, you’ve felt afraid of what a man might do to you. So you believe the story.
He has lied to you for at least 2 years, and now he’s manipulating you. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Keep reading this blog and get yourself into therapy with a therapist who sees infidelity as abuse. Hang in there.
This scenario exactly. Lost Soul – please listen.
SC is exactly right. They had already been flirting at work and he went alone to her house to smoke pot ?
I know what it is to want to believe the lies your husband is telling in hopes of saving the marriage… mine told me he “shared hotel rooms with” Susan of Seattle but never had sex with her.
My name says it all… I thought I was the exception… the one who got the “better marriage” from it all. No, I got 7 years of wreckonsillyation, a lot of abuse and later learned he was a serial cheater.
We’re all sorry this is your situation but your husband is as described above: a lying liar who lies
I find your scenario very plausible and probably spot on. However, can we say “Married men dont….” as opposed to “Happily married men…”……Maybe its just me but I feel that “happily married” infers some type of culpability on the spouse/chump…Does anyone get what Im saying?
Yeah, that’s a good point. Maybe I should have said “married men with integrity” or something. I was trying to differentiate between a cheater and a person who doesn’t cheat.
Yes, I love what Schrodinger wrote, except for the “happily married men” part. I would say, “married men with character don’t flirt….
Apparently, years before D-day, x asked his guy friends what on earth he should do (“Oh me! Oh my!”) about a nurse who was flirting with him. They told him to “shut it down because you’re married.” He didn’t. That’s who he is. Happiness never entered the conversation at that time. Of course, re yesterday’s discussion, he would later trot out the unhappiness excuse.
And to think I used to believe he was a man of character. That’s what’s so destabilizing. How could I have been wrong? Yeesh.
*been so wrong
(which is an apt typo ????????♀️)
Yes, I agree. It shouldn’t matter if he’s happily married or unhappily married. He’s married. He made vows.
Mine tried to claim the AP flirted with him totally out of the blue and he didn’t respond, didn’t flirt back. A few months later he innocently, with no intention of cheating, decided to go out drinking with her when they were at a conference, and the sex “just happened.” ????
Married people don’t spend time alone with someone who has shown sexual/romantic interest in them unless they plan to cheat.
Naturally, I found flirty emails from him to her dated before they first innocently went out together, came back to their hotel and accidentally had sex. I knew it was bullshit immediately, but it was nice to have proof.
So when that story didn’t fly, he trotted out the tired IHBHFALT excuse as well as ILYBINILWY.
Lost Soul’s cheater will also try that gambit if she tells him she thinks he is lying.
They’re so predictable.
Absolutely. “Happiness” doesn’t come into this. People with character, integrity, and a moral compass don’t cheat, lie and betray, and try to eat cake.
Anyone who is unhappy in a marriage/relationship can take the steps to leave *ethically*, as CL has so often said.
I agree the phrase “happily married people don’t…” is just another way to blame the chump, although I’m sure SC didn’t intend to do that.
1. Either he is “powerless” to resist other women so you should leave him
Or
2. He made a conscious decision to lie to your face for years and you should leave him.
When the perpetrator is the one claiming to be the victim you have nothing to work with.
Watch “Serial Killer with Piers Morgan” on Netflix. These convinced murderers (often with DNA evidence) each paint themselves as victims and proclaim their innocence. Watch closely and listen to the tactics and language these guys use to try to twist plain facts. You will recognize it.
Edit:” He says he forced her” should be “he says she forced him”.
My fingers couldn’t even type out his story the way he told it because it’s so outlandish. Is she the Incredible Hulk and your husband the worlds tiniest and most timid man??
Lol! Have a heart. The poor guy was continually raped for two years. He must have a whopping case of PTSD. Anyone going through that would be a basket case and need to be in in a mental hospital. But he somehow has the wherewithal to go about life as normal, reading infidelity books and being Reformed Cheater Guy. He’s a medical miracle.
My FW STBXW said similar things about it being over and being 100% committed to “putting in the work needed to repair and rebuild, etc.” However, once I realized that the promised transparency never materialized and the useless MC sessions were chock full of blame-shifting and DARVO, I ran fast and hard to the court house and filed. What it came down to for me was risking my future with a spouse that thought, at some point, that a reasonable response to being in an unsatisfying marriage was to get a boyfriend and engage in an LTA. And, although they may swear up and down that it was a terrible decision that will never happen again, something in them made this an acceptable option on some level. So, there’s no reason to assume they will never do it again. It’s just who they are.
I don’t think you’re pathetic Lost Soul. At all. I really understand where you’re coming from. Funnily enough my user name is lost. I’m faced with a 7 year affair that I only found out about because I dug and dug into old emails during a crazy gaslighting period where I was allowing part of myself to stay in denial (maybe these thousands or texts with heart emoji’s and her calling him hunny IS only because he likes to collect and help sad people…???).
He actually tried to make me feel bad for not trusting him after seeing these texts.
Anyway! I hear you. Mine is in therapy too and saying all of the right things and looking so pathetic and sad and letting me cry and rage (I am a fucking mess by the way). I keep writing here, almost looking for permission or some story if a unicorn. You will not find that here and yet here you (we) are! Yesterday he said to me “we can make this whatever we want this to be!” And I’ve been thinking about that. Logically it is true. I can decide anything I want and what I want is to not feel the crazy physical pain of my broken heart (and my daughter’s).
My therapist recently said to me that right now it feels like there’s only 2 options for me – the happy before time and the painful present. But there will be other options. I don’t need to choose between one or the other.
I don’t know, lost soul, same here – same same same. I relate to all of your feelings. I’ll be reading all of these responses to gather my strength. I think we both know what needs to happen. None of it is fair.
I suggest going to the archives and searching ‘limbo’ and ‘hopium’.
And think about compatibility. Are you compatible with a person who could do this to you? When I ask my husband “how could you have done this to me?” He adamantly says he didn’t do this TO me and says all this crap about his entitlement and how sorry he is.
I don’t know….everyone here talks of the pain being finite. I’m getting pretty impatient!! Lol.
Sending hugs and support. This shit is hard!
Reading all of these responses is helping me see the direction I’ve already been leaning towards. Also a coworker today said something and it kind of struck me hard. She said “you should stay separated, but maybe try dating one another again.” I said “if we weren’t already married and a guy who had cheated on his spouse wanted to go out with me, I would say no way!” I want to be with someone who has the same morals and values as me. How can I stay with someone who clearly doesn’t have those?! So, I ask these same questions of you.
Sending you a giant hug!
We’ve got this – may it be so ❤️❤️❤️
The pain is finite when you divorce his ass and work on yourself. As long as you remain married to the cheater, he will continue to gaslight you and you will continue to be in pain. Living fuckwit free brings peace to your psyche. When you continue to live with the cheater, your psyche continues to be messed up. You will experience cognitive dissonance and will spend years not experiencing ‘peace’. It really is better to just get rid of the person in your life that disrupts that peace. I’m so sorry for you Lost. You need to get peace again and to do it you need to start your life without your cheater. That is one extremely painful decision to make. You will spend months and possibly years doubting your decision saying stuff like ‘I didn’t give it my all!’ You should never have to trust a cheater to ‘give it your all’. Once that cheater crossed the line and dipped his wick in some other vagina, you have no more obligations ‘to make it work’. I don’t believe in unicorns. If a cheater is really a unicorn, then the cheater will be a unicorn even after you divorce him. Get your peace of mind now because the longer you stay there, the more insidious the gaslighting will be and the more fucked up in the head you will be.
Take the knife out of your back and get some help for the open wound. Yes, you’ll be scarred for life but eventually you’ll only feel a dull ache when it rains.
Subsequent to the discovery of OW, he claimed that they broke it off and he was back with me then he moved cross country for a job claiming he did t “live” there, he just “worked” there ( with an apartment ). I was in horrible pain over all of it. I wanted a real reconciliation. He eventually returned home but basically ignored everything he did. I asked to talk about and he said he wasn’t ready but never became ready. Once I realized I was not in a marriage but rather in a state of non-divorce, the realization that he hurt me so deeply and pretended it never happened RZ-traumatized me at about 80% of the intensity of when it happened in the first place.
I had promised myself that at some point, if I knew that I was endlessly living in OWs shadow, I would leave. Just because we try to wreckoncile doesn’t mean we can put an end to it
They didn’t do it TO you. Red flag red flag. He was doing what he wanted with no thought for how it affected you. He didn’t consider you at all. I don’t know what’s worse. He didn’t think of you or he did and enjoyed literally screwing you over. Either way, nothing to work with here. A sane married person would be able to project the guilt and consequences of their cheating, enough so that they either wouldn’t do it, or would honorably fess up and leave.
My ex confessed to dozens of infidelities at DD. I remember asking my therapist what she thought was too many! She said quite seriously TWO. One time might be salvageable. Two is a broken commitment. Think of it. Two years of cheating, sneaking, lying and going behind your back. The double life that entailed and all the cake he got. Only confessed when busted (hunt they only tell you as much as they think you know, which was the tip of the iceberg in my case) There are absolutely no benefits to you. Nothing to work with here.
THIS ^ “It had nothing to do with you.” Really? But, like, I’m your wife…? How could having sex with howorker in our toddler’s bed while I am in the next room have nothing to do with me? Oh, I guess because I did not and do not matter to you or to her. I was not part of what they were thinking about except perhaps that it amped the thrill of it all that I was asleep with our toddler in the next room. They are such loathsome immoral soulless trash. I will frankly be relieved once he no longer thinks of me at all.
Yes, that whole ‘I didn’t do it TO you’ and ‘it had nothing to do with you!’
That really makes me lose my mind. I think he really believes it to, and, to be fair (I know…why?) everything I read about narcissists says that it actually doesn’t have to do with you.
I still don’t really buy it though.
Anyone have any fantastic comebacks for that? I just get stuck in the ‘did too’ ‘did not’ ‘did too’ etc.
Bleck.
Lying kills the trust. So yes he did it to you.
Responding to their nonsense sincerely is a waste of breath. They aren’t logical and don’t listen. You might as well have some fun messing with them by being sarcastic.
“I didn’t do it TO you.”
Right, and I’m not going to be handing divorce papers TO you. I’ll just let them float in the ether, like your dick did until it randomly landed in some skank’s cooch. Mmmkay?
“it had nothing to do with you!”
Me kicking you out on your sorry ass has nothing to do with you. It’s a totally impersonal type of sorry ass removal.
Better yet, don’t say anything. File and kick his sorry ass out. That says it all.
“I didn’t do it to you”
You most certainly did. You exposed me to potential STDs. You ruined our marriage. You broke our family. Please explain how I wasn’t a part of the equation, when every single one of your actions affected me.
“It had nothing to do with you”
So my health, safety, and happiness mean nothing to you? Great, then you can pack your things and move out and you won’t miss me at all.
The pain is finite once you take the first step. Once you lawyer up and file, the pain gets a little less. Stress levels are different because once you file the stress becomes that of the settlement and so forth but you can release some of the marriage policing and some of the BS that you hear in MC (i.e., you have to take your share of the blame for poor sad sausage having an affair, etc). Once you get o the road and know the direction you need to travel things will become less painful. I am almost at the end of settling and I can see the clouds lifting.
I don’t think anyone here who talks about the pain being finite is still living with their cheater. The pain of Leaving a Cheater and Gaining a Life (either NC or gray rock) is what is finite. The pain of staying with a known cheater? Potentially a life sentence.
Sending you lots of hugs, Lost, and the strength to do what you already seem to know is best for you and your girl….
Lost Soul, I am so sorry you have to join our club but I am happy that you found CL & CN!
Please file for divorce & run as fast as you can. I also got the “she’s crazy & dangerous” story. Not exactly like yours, but he told me many, many stories of them fighting & calling the cops, having her physically removed from his apartment (we were separated by then), threats she made against me, stories of her stalking him at work, etc. He painted her to be a crazy, unhinged psycho that might come after me/us at any time.
Like you, the OW was the one who told me about the affair, likely because she was mad at him. I was kind to her, talked to her, and was able to put together the timelines that I needed and, being young and immature (young enough to be our daughter!), she sent me everything I needed for court, including photo evidence. It was the worst day of my life & I have never felt more sick to my stomach talking with that person, but I finally had the truth. My ex continued to lie & try to gaslight me, even after I had the photographic evidence in my hands.
I proceeded with the divorce & no contact and you know what happened to them… they are together again and now have a child. Hmm. She was so crazy and dangerous that you had a baby with her?! It’s all lies, Lost Soul. LIES.
Please keep coming back to CL. Read the archives, reach out to other chumps. You will find the strength & support you need to walk away from this person & step into your fabulous new life.
*Hugs*
Lost soul, sorry you are here and very glad you found CL/CN at the very same time.
Please do the absolute best thing you can possibly do for yourself.
Drop that cheater and never look back.
He is snowing you with his ‘poor little forest creature’ image. It’s called unable to take responsibility and blame shifting.
If you haven’t read CL’s book, you need to do that ASAP. It will clear up a lot for you. You are desperately trying to “ untangle the skein of fuckedupedness” as you will find out in the book too.
Those knots cannot be unraveled and you will never get to the bottom of your husband’s lies and deceits, because cheaters live in bottomless pits of deceptive skills. He is playing you.
I know it’s almost impossible for you to imagine that someone you so dearly cherish could hurt you so horribly, but you need to come out of the fog of wanting him to be repentant and loving and see as much as you can handle right now with your eyes wide open.
You must “ trust that he sucks” for your own survival. I know it’s harsh to hear, but this is serious business.
Your husband is not a good man, I’m sorry. Somehow, it seems, these type of people are propagating like wildflowers and it is not something you are even capable of seeing until it’s actually done to you. It’s surreal and it still is to many of us Chumps years and years later.
You will never get the answers you want, but you must not let that keep you locked in the mystery as he continues to abuse you.
Yes, infidelity IS abuse.
This man you love knows he is hurting you, but your needs mean nothing when placed next to his own.
He will go undercover now that you have some information on him.(there’s lots more you won’t see till you are free of him and it will blow your mind)
Where was his personal agency in fending off this crazy woman?
Oh, I didn’t want to rob the bank, but someone put a gun in my hand and I was forced to do it!
I don’t know how it happened, my dick came out of my pants continually for two solid years, but I must have been under some deep trance, so scared and unable to resist the horror of it all.
Does that even sound logical to you? You know it isn’t and you would be right.
It’s total bull shit.
This guy is a classic cheater, Lost Soul. And cheaters do not change.
You might move past this bunny boiling work associate issue, but you will not be able to feel safe or trust this man ever again.
Why? Because your gut knows he will find darker and deeper ways to cheat and feed you trinkets of amazing kindness and displays of his goodness through it all. Then, when you finally able to accept he is not a good man( I hope you see it soon!) you will barely recognize yourself and you will be very sorry you didn’t escape when you landed on the first deception.
He does not have your best interest in mind, he is entitled to have whatever he wants.
CL’s post to you was spot on accurate. You don’t have the unicorn who can change.
I also feel my blood boil reading your letter, because to us chumps, it is as obvious as it could possibly be, that you are dealing with a low life cheater and he does not care about you.
It was so hard for all of us to get away too, but you can’t unsee that level of deception, and you absolutely should not.
Read the book and all the best to you. I’m sorry for your pain and that your path has crossed with a cheater. It is overwhelming!
Hang on this site through the confusion, it can give you support as there are such kind and generous chumps that post, it’s truly been a godsend.
YESSSSSSS: “cheaters live in bottomless pits of deceptive skills.”
I have found that it is at times truly incomprehensible that they are able to keep up all of the lying duplicity and frankly just plain evil behavior as if nothing had happened at all.
What drove FW to get tested after howorker #3? Concern for his sweet devoted wife? No! He thought he might have gotten a skin infection around his EYES from her when his skin started peeling off. Fear not, poor little timid forest creature had “stress scabies” (is that even a thing?) from all of his hard work. There really is no bottom. It is revolting to even think about how FW thought to worry about howorker giving him an STD in his eyes. They are disgusting. They suck. Trust it, because you sure can’t trust them.
Yes, my STBX was remorseful and ashamed after I caught him the first time. He “did all the right things” as well. He found a counselor for us, let me check his phone whenever, texted pictures of where he was when things were off schedule, etc. Guess what? He cheated a second time. And a then a third. Only then did I finally leave. I regret so much that I didn’t leave him the first time. He’ll do it again. Count your losses and move on. *hugs*
Cut** not “count”
Hmm…so he was basically forced to have sex with her for two years because of her threats to harm his family? That would be rape, Lost Soul. Do you actually think he stood for being raped for two years?
So things kept happening that stopped him from telling you every single day for two years? Wow, he must have an eventful life. Unless what kept happening was lockjaw, he could have told you.
Lost Soul, this story is one of the biggest crocks of shit I’ve ever heard. This man is a con artist. A child could see through his ridiculous story. The reason you can’t is you’re spackling. You don’t really believe it. You’re telling yourself you do because you want to stay with this chickenshit lying cheater. Believe me, I get it. You have a lot invested, but so what? How about making an investment in *yourself* now. If he’s still lying, and he 100% is, he’s not remorseful and he’ll cheat again. He’s play-acting as Reformed Cheater Guy until you trust him again.
I had a fake unicorn too. He was in therapy. He was willing to sign a post-nup. He offered me a generous settlement. But he kept lying. His lies weren’t as stupid as your cheater’s lies, but that’s not saying much. Unless they give full disclosure and practice radical honesty, they are not sorry and they’ll do it again. The worst part of cheating is the constant lies, not the sex, and he continues to lie. He’s not reformed, he’s just regrouping for his next affair.
I suggest you insist on calling her and getting her side of the story. Ask him to give you her number so you can call her right then and there. It’s a test. See what he does. Does he refuse? Dump. Does he make excuses why you shouldn’t or claim he lost her number? Dump. Does he insist she’s so dangerous that even a phone call puts you at risk of being harmed, and that she’ll just lie anyway? Dump. Does he immediately agree and give you her number? Nah, he won’t.
I’m sorry, Lost Soul. He’s a horrible man. Long term affair cheaters have the same mentality as serial cheaters. Think about it. He lied to you by omission every single minute of every single day for two years and would have gone on lying if he hadn’t been caught. Mine did it for five years and also only stopped because he got caught. They suck and they don’t change. I hope you take CL’s advice.
Lost Soul, this was not brought to light until she got burned according to her and told you. Did you ever follow up on your finances to see how much money he spent on her? The main thing is you feel how you feel and you are entitled to that. The trust is broken and it’s very rare that ever comes back. That is a lot of what you are feeling now. The big thing that has me worried is all this stuff he is doing now. By gosh he has never picked up a book! Journaling! Say it isn’t so! Honey I think he is snowing you. I bet the farm he got advice. I bet he has already been to see a lawyer behind your back because I seriously doubt he is doing this on his own. A lawyer has advised him to do this stuff. You see all of his phone activities now? You didn’t see this because he is calling from another phone and this is another thing he has kept from you. It is not to your benefit. Keep your eyes open and dig around and be sneaky. I don’t think he is telling you the truth. You need to dig around and find out yourself. If he is you will know and if he isn’t you will know. You don’t have kids so that helps a lot.
“You don’t have kids so that helps a lot.” I would have walked out on FW the SECOND he started disclosing if we didn’t have a son together.
Get STD tested, and try not to have hysterical bonding sex like I did (sigh….).
Poor poor little man. It’s so hard being the victim of a big bad sexy whore. He wants you to mommy him and make her go away, fix him a bowl of lucky charms, and kiss his owie-boo-boo. How bout you serve him with divorce, instead.
Ooh, I love a surprise in a box of cereals!
Yeah, his lucky charms are about to be turned into chuncky harms.
LS, i’m sorry you’re here. hell, i’m sorry we’re all here and there are a lot of us. i hope you’re seeing a therapist on your own and sharing your thoughts/feelings in the office. i also hope you’ve had a full battery of testing for STI’s, including hepatitis screening. your health is important. you’re important.
if i may make a suggestion? ask yourself the following question: if i had a daughter and she came to me with the same story as yours, what would i say to her? you’d tell her to get out of the relationship and find a good lawyer.
your H is not a mature or wise man. he has placed your health at risk by simultaneously sleeping with you and another woman. there may be more women involved, you don’t know. he doesn’t tell the truth because “something came up.”
i think we all know what came up, and erections pass.
take care of your self, LS.
Seeing someone who is newly chumped always gets to me. I wonder how long it will take for her to read the stories on Chump Lady, find and use other resources, learn to reject the RIC, and a million other painful steps she will take on her journey. One constant I have seen over and over from chumps is at the end of all this suffering and pain, they don’t regret the loss of the cheater. They regret the loss of their own precious time and wish they had not tried so hard to save a sinking and gutted ship. Sure, we all miss the dream. We all wish our lives would have turned out the way we imagined they could be. But we all learn to live in the real world of how life really is. It may not be as pretty as the dream, but it is much more peaceful.
The dream never included DDays and OPs calling us to tell us they had been cheating with our spouses or having someone else call to tell us or calling our land line and hanging up when we answered instead of our “dear spouse” answering. If an OP kept telling me what my spouse was doing with him or her or kept sending me messages through friends and family, I would not be with dear cheater very long. I have wondered if CL has thought of a challenge about how many chumps have been informed by their spouse’s affair person, that their spouse is cheating. Those APs really like to look out for their own interests once they have decided whether they will win if they tell or whether the cheater will dump them for telling.
“But we all learn to live in the real world of how life really is. It may not be as pretty as the dream, but it is much more peaceful.”
Needed this. Pity party today. Snapped me right out of it. ☺️
Everyone here today has spoken the language of reality, written the subtitles of WTF is Really Going On.
I have gotten seriously behind on housework since discovering my marriage was a MIRAGE and he left (four years ago).
In my travels through the house putting things away (the sandals from a cruise that I went on in April 2019 were still where I set them down when I got home!), I found a copy of The Script by Elizabeth Landers, about what cheaters do, written about what male cheaters do but applicable to cheaters of any gender.
HE DID EVERY SINGLE THING IN THAT BOOK.
They do and say NOTHING original. And thank God for this site for the daily reminder of that.
I don’t know about “once a cheater, always a cheater”, or
“if it doesn’t fit you must acquit”, or “once on the lips forever on the hips”, but I do know “when stabbed in the heart, it is best to depart”, “when they betray, you must walk away”, “if you want peace of mind, look for loyal and kind”, “when you see who they are, run away and run far”, “when you’re loved and it’s true, they would not cheat on you”…
Etc.
Add to this Maya Angelou’s quote: When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
My experience is that going to therapy with a cheater is like calling the fire department after your house has burned down and you find out your partner is the arsonist.
The other woman may have told you out of anger/spite. Or she could’ve told you because she’s trying to beat you out. A lot of times when women have jealous mothers and absent fathers, they try to fix this trauma by dating married men; but it’s not about the men so much as one upping their wives. (Ask your therapist about transference. Your therapist could probably explain this better than I can.) my point is, when your husband tells you she’s crazy, tell him that the affair isn’t about him but you and see how angry he gets. He was involved with her for two years. (Hint: he likes the crazy.) He said it’s over but he may still be involved with her. How would you know really? He’s lied to you before. And if you stay with him, it sends the message that there’s no repercussions for his infidelity. What will stop him from doing this again? Please contact a lawyer. And I’m so sorry this happened to you.
Let’s just say (for arguments sake) that an OW has real mental health issues. Fucking her for 2 years put you at serious risk for 1) disease 2) violence. Crazy OWs have been known to kill wives.
If he genuinely thought her to be imbalanced, the kindest thing would have been to tell you right away so that you could protect yourself. Anything short of that was selfish and dangerous.
Hi Lost Soul, I’m fairly new here. Married 30 years, now in middle of divorce. I remember my reaction to the first cheat and the second and the third. Only now — as he has swiftly turned tail in the divorce — do the pleas for me to leave make sense. I thought he was different. Didn’t listen when so many people rang alarm bells: he’s calling you crazy and why is he never here? I was super buried in denial. I wonder if you could propose/pursue a separation agreement or post-nup to see how he reacts? To protect yourself? Live away for six months to get your head straight and make up your own mind without his story?More senior chumps might weigh in…I just know you could have hit me over the head with a two by four and I would have believed his lies. I spent seven tortuous years doing the should I stay/should I go game. That was terrible. Without trust, I was in a constant state of hypervigilance that only got worse. How I wish I would have listened to my voice and to so many others. The longer I stayed, the longer the hell.
Oh Lost Soul, those books he’s reading on infidelity are most likely either telling him that it’s your fault for not meeting his needs or that it’s just as much your fault as it is his that he cheated. Some of them will blame the other woman too, as he’s doing. Most of the infidelity books out there are really, really bad. Him reading them isn’t a good sign. In the six weeks it took me to get my divorce done, my ex husband was already mailing my 15 year younger replacement some of those books from our Amazon account. So she would understand that he HAD TO fuck other women. And she was abusive (like me) if she ever had an issue with it or a single boundary.
Shit, the books may have given him the whole “the other woman is an evil succubus and made me do it” bullshit story.
Dear Lost Soul, sorry you ended up here. Sadly you are in the right place. You only have to re-read what you wrote and Tracy’s reply to see what happened and the only way forward for you. It is harder to see when you are still in the thick of it with a cheater. They will do anything to distract you from what you already know, like reading books, going to counseling (AKA hiring help to mindfuck you) or listening to podcasts. But he can’t get a character transplant from those things. He’s just learning new vocabulary for his word salad.
Remember he was not sorry when you didn’t know.
Try a little thought exercise. What were you going through when he was fucking a stranger for 2 years? Did you have “intimacy issues”? Were you buying lingerie to spice up your life in the bedroom and blaming yourself? Were you taking care of children/ working on your taxes/ reorganizing your closet while you thought he was “working late”? Were you berating yourself for being annoyed at him for missing a family function/night out/intimate time or just his turn to wash the dishes, because “ he is working sooo hard”?
He stole from you, time, probably money, the truth about your own life, and now your right to be angry because he was the victim?! Is this all acceptable to you?
This person is not who you think he was, and he does not have your best interest in mind. He showed you who he is, please don’t ignore it. No contact is the best way to regain your capacity to think clearly. If you can’t decide to divorce him straight up, ask him to move out temporarily (so that you can think). No negotiation. Take this time to get information about divorce, read books like LACGAL and Cheating in a nutshell, and figure things out. You have agency. It is your life, take charge.
THIS. I will never get back what my ex STOLE from me. Not the full amount of actual cash, not the retirement settlement I had to give him to make him go away finally, but also, the TIME. The lost opportunities for connection, community service, conversation, fun, sex, romance, even just plain hard work of building a family, pulling as a team. He CHOSE to absent himself from all those opportunities with me, and your husband has made similar choices. It wasn’t a mistake, it wasn’t because some witch hoodwinked him, it wasn’t because he was protecting his family (that takes cheater nonsense to a whole new level!) — No. It all boils down to his unilateral choices to get what he wanted when he wanted AND to protect himself from any negative consequences. Now that he thinks there is the possibility of some consequences? NOW he is running a different con… “look at me! I’m reading! I’m going to counseling! Wee! No consequences please, LS, just please please keep serving delicious cake and get lulled into my second con so that I can get back to my fuckbuddy as soon as the coast is clear.” Don’t fall for it. Please. Don’t be me.
Exactly. We all make CHOICES. For example us chumps all chose to KEEP IT IN OUR PANTS when faced with adversity. Cheaters also make choices, to repeatedly take the easier, self-serving path when presented with a fork in the road. We are defined by what we do, not what we say.
So what will you do now?
Lost Soul, fractured soul walking through thick Fog. I was married twenty years. My ex picked up women at bars and at work. Your Husbands dick was not held ransom and the fact it’s been two years he lied every single time he saw her let alone screwed her. My ex said about every thing possible to throw my off and away from truth. I left him for eight months came back , we moved away and after ALL that , I find out he has had another ow for over a year! It was someone he worked with. Throughout our marriage red flags were flapping in my face often stinging my skin but I kept right on believing , making up excuses to let it go and try to save the marriage. He was such a grand liar .
Read the post. First I thought it was fake. Then i thought it was cynical and was expecting it to end with: of course I don’t believe his crap. I’m out!
Don’t believe his crap. Het the hell out!
This is what I know to be true about Home Wrecking Whores, AP’s, Crazy Bitches, OW’s, Side Pieces, Mistresses, Concubines or whatever the fuck else anyone wants to call them…
They are highly competitive, jealous, insecure, low morals & values, shallow, self-centred, narcissistic, evil witches.
All that aside, the pattern always goes like this. At a certain point in the affair fuckery they start to question and demand why it is taking so long for Cheater FW to leave his wife. “But he said I was SPECIAL and that he loved ME and not his crazy wife!” is what they fixate on.
Cheaters LOVE triangulation. Infidelity is a 3-legged stool.
TAKE YOURSELF OUT OF THE EQUATION AND WATCH IT FALL.
Lost Soul, stop the pick me dance and get away from this ABUSER. The worst thing you could do to yourself is stay and have kids with him. Shooting from the hip here because this is YOUR SHOT at a happy, FW-Free life!
One thing to add is that the cheater often marries the affair partner and fills the chump with even more self doubt. It’s just another mindfuck. But once the chump gains a life, the mindfucks go away and the cheater continues to live his messed-up life perpetuating the cycle of abuse on someone else.
Gosh Amazon — this is where I am now. EXH married OW 5 months after our divorce and 9 days after hers. We were married 30 years. They married 2 months ago and moved to Georgia from PA. Hoping to gain a life but trying to figure it out at 64….from all accounts they are as happy as can be……despite the fact that neither of their 2 adult children talk to them. A total mindfuck indeed. Total.
“from all accounts they are as happy as can be…”
Sure, that’s what they’re fronting as, so people believe it. As a general rule, the more they insist they are happy together and the more happy shiny people drivel they post about their relationship on social media, the less happy they really are. These are people who can only do image and do not live in truth. Spoiler alert- that way of living doesn’t end well for them. By the time it goes totally tits up and they can’t conceal it anymore, you’ll be past caring.
My therapist met ExH once (he refused to go back) and she has been saying for 3 years that he is disordered and incapable of true happiness…..No room for happiness in that vat of toxicity he and wifetress wallow in.
“When a man marries his mistress it creates a job vacancy.” Truer words were never spoken. Think on that and while the mindfuck may not go away, it will become much less hurtful.
Mine switched strategies . When I learned of first ow he said” your stronger than I am” men are men designed to have many sex partners, I was lost, I made a mistake, I’ll go to counseling “which was worthless” but expensive. He used this time to elicit more sexual scenarios with me , used me because I made a great chump trying to please and fix what was broken. Second time around learning of Ow he switched strategy . This time most all fault he put on me or an event that happened with him years before. In between the Blair he would hold my cheeks look into my eyes and profess his love for me. But it was game over for me , I’d been played long enough. This site and LACGAL helped me to decode all of his BS. I hope it helps you also.
Hello Lost Soul
Good for you for reaching out to Chump Lady. This in my mind infers that there is a part of you that doesn’t believe all the BS your husband is telling you.
Your husband is a liar and a dishonourable man. It’s super hard to fathom that your life partner carries those traits but he does.
Ooo…I’m so scared, I had to have sex with her over and over again.
I’d be more annoyed that he would think I believed such a story and would leave on that basis alone. Does he think he’s the smartest person in the room or what?
Show him he’s actually a FW and walk. It will be brutal at first but worth it on the other side.
Good luck. Everyone here is on your side.
Yep. The biggest insult of all are their childish lies and how stupid they must think we are that we’d believe them. Like naughty little toddlers caught with their hand in the cookie jar, pulling whatever ridiculous excuse thay can out of their dirty diapers and throwing it at us.
“I don’t know if I want to be with someone who could do that, even if it never happened again. This has changed me and us and I don’t know that I can ever be with him again.”
Once you answer this question (it was a no, in my case) all of the excuses and tales of woe will not matter. You can stop thinking about them and wondering.
I had a great therapist that periodically interrupted my tearful rants to ask, “Do you love him?” Well, I didn’t. I didn’t love the spineless, selfish coward I now understood that I was married to. So why would I want to be married to him?
Therapist never told me to stay or leave, but she spent months training me to understand that I didn’t owe this person a second chance. He had stepped over the line, and all that mattered was what I wanted to make of it.
My wonderful therapist passed away in 2020 so it was a comfort when I started reading Chump Lady’s blog and she asked, “Is this acceptable to you?” Finally, advice that didn’t hang on what a proven liar may or may not be doing/thinking (= uncertainty for the rest of your life basically). I wasn’t ready to read here right after DDay; I wanted to believe in love and forgiveness etc. But I ended up here anyway. Nearly three years out my life has only gotten better.
Stick around, Lost Soul. You’re much further along than I was at this point, and there’s no reason you can’t consult with a lawyer while you work out the emotional side. Trust me, your Cheater has already gotten a jump on planning. He’s had years while you’ve been in the dark. Finally, DO NOT tell him what you’re thinking/doing. He’s clearly in cya/self protection mode and he’s not your friend right now. Sorry.
It’s easier to blame the stranger, because it’s difficult to accept that the life you shared with someone was just a stage performance. The claims of remorse is a means of controlling the situation to suit their agenda.
No doubt that some OW/OM are disordered. The OW in my situation has a history of destructive behavior, is a substance abuser and had a list of women she fantasized about harming, including me. But OW’s behavior, as troubled and scary as it was, just further illustrated how callous and disturbed my ex FW is, that he chose to interact with this unhinged individual for nearly a year and didn’t care what harm resulted from it.
Character is what you are when you think no one is watching. Unfortunately some of these covert abusers are adept at manipulating the people around them and blindsiding people that have put trust in them, including family and friends who believed that the ‘nice’ persona was genuine.
Sorry but isn’t this entire letter the plot of “Fatal Attraction”?
Yes, yes it is. Because cheaters are lazy. Why make up a new good story when one is already out there.
The person who wrote that movie had to be a cheater.
Or an equity investor in the RIC.
CL that was classic. Thank you.
Lost Soul we all want to believe our FW is different and we can get past it. Like a geometry problem CL proves he sucks.
CL lays the theorems out:
He cheated
He lied
He covered it up for 2 years
Therefore the proof:
He sucks!
The person who would cheat on you for two (and probably more) years is someone who does not love you. No one treats someone who is precious and cherished to them in this way. That is a really hurtful realization (trust me, I know) and one that may take you a while to fully absorb. I am so sorry. Once you accept that one important fact … all the rest of what he says becomes meaningless. Don’t give any more of your life to someone who finds you useful but does not love you. Hugs.
So they still both work for the same company? Interesting. I can only imagine what a load of bullshit he is giving OW. If she is as crazy as he says she is they’d both be canned by now.
Lost Soul. . . find yourself. Save yourself. Invest in yourself — you’ll never regret it. Go no contact and divorce his ass. Get busy finding out why you put up with abuse. That is worth your time and money.
Cheaters cheat because they want to — the thrill of deceiving you excites them. They get off on hurting you. Its abuse.
That is who he is: an abuser. You are a victim of his abuse.
He showed you exactly who he is: a person who fucks other women, tells millions of lies with impunity, takes no responsibility for HIS choices, has devalued you, uses you, risks your life with no compunction whatsoever. Run woman! He’s your worst enemy and your life is at stake.
Textbook – my Ex said the same thing. Exactly. Two plus years – yeah, I’m sure all the other ones (male and female) that were discovered over the years we’re just as crazy. Run. Run far. Run fast.