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He Butt-Dialed Me from the OW’s

buttdialDear Chump Lady,

I left my fiancee after finding out he had an affair with a subordinate of his at work. I still haven’t gotten the whole story out of him (to this day, he still sticks by his story that they only “made out a little bit” even though there were nights where he wouldn’t come back home). Through a lot of emotional roller coasters these past 4 months, I feel like I really achieved “Meh.”

Then, last weekend, I get a text from him out of nowhere saying how much he misses me and how he regrets hurting me. When I didn’t respond, he sent me another text saying how I was all he could think about while he was at the hospital. When I didn’t respond to that, he sent another text saying how he’s all alone with no friends and no family in his life.

I caved. I started texting him, cautiously at first, keeping it short — asking why he was in the hospital. Eventually, the conversations turned friendly and nostalgic — back to the days when we we first met. I stupidly got my hopes up for the possibility of a friendship, then a couple hours without a response later, he butt-dials me from the OW’s apartment.

“All alone” my butt! Before I realized what was going on, I heard laughter and giggling, and what sounded like her saying “I love you.” Even though I don’t want him back, it was a harsh reality check that he is still the pathological liar I remember. I sent him one more text of “F*ck you” and he sent a flurry of texts back trying to do damage control.

He said they were “just friends” and that he doesn’t love her, he loves me. He said he was “all alone” because even when they were hanging out, he FELT alone. Yadda Yadda Yadda. I don’t know what happened, but about an hour later, he texted me saying the OW kicked him out of her apartment — that sounds like something a “girlfriend” does — not a “friend.”

Which led me to this thought: I felt like the OW. The girl he texts while he’s with his girlfriend, setting up a lunch date or dinner date. The girl he says “but I really love YOU” as he says “I love you” to his current girlfriend. The girl who causes the fights that end in him being thrown out.

Ugh… Please help me, CL. I need your sassy insight about what I should do. Is friendship really impossible?

Shocked and Confused


Dear Shocked and Confused,

Well that depends on exactly how desperate you are for friends. Is it possible? Sure. And I could walk up 6th Street in Austin with $100 bills stuffed in my pockets buying hipsters tequila shots and have a lot of “friends” too. Alternatively, I could get a cardboard cutout figure of Stephen Fry and we could watch Downton Abbey together. More trifle, Stephen? Oh, don’t mind if I do, Tracy. Or I could tell all my deepest secrets to the green scum in my fish aquarium.

It really just boils down to your definition of friend.

Personally, I prefer not to befriend people who promise marriage to me and then fuck their co-workers. But I’m peculiar that way.

If you’d like a quality friendship with someone who cares for you and reciprocates your affections — aim higher. MUCH higher. You’re just a kibble dispenser to this idiot. He has shown you many times over exactly who he is, you’re just refusing to see it. You think there is something there to work with. I don’t know… is there? The philandering. The mindfuckery. The self-pity. What exactly is there to miss? The way he looks in a starched shirt?

Have some deal breakers, Shocked. Raise the price on your friendship. Don’t be so easily bought, that all he has to do is pester you with some texts and you’re mush. Standards, woman! STANDARDS!

How’s this for a deal breaker — he CHEATED and he LIED. He abused your trust. If you reward this behavior with your friendship, you’re sending him the clear message that what he did to you Wasn’t That Bad. Which is exactly what he wants — a chump who will take him back and dispense kibbles again and again regardless of his behavior. When things get dicey, he’ll do his little sparkle schtick, and you’re right back in place.

What’s in it for YOU? Feeling like the OW, because unwittingly you are the OW? Do you feel special? He’ll fit you in between whatever other piece of tail he’s chasing that day. He’ll reward you with more drama and chaos and he’ll bust your heart into little pieces — because you’ll be expecting a pay off for your loyalty and friendship — and there won’t be one.

You’d get better results with the aquarium scum. So stop being confused and dump this loser for once and for all.


This column ran previously. 

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  • Perfect response, Chump Lady. I’ve had several new levels of Chump Epiphany and the last few days have been higher level realizations about friendship with former jerk-o-mine (married 16 yrs). I dropped the notion of friendship two months ago and now, the new realization, is that he was never my friend. How could a friend treat me like he did? It’s not a real friendship. What we shared was not “shared” in any true sense. It’s still awful to think I was basically in my own island of reality for 16 years. How could I have felt so close to him? It’s still quite confusing. But I am no contact and that’s the best decision I could make given the facts I finally know about! Friendship has to have trust that the other person isn’t conniving against you with third parties behind your back. I’m so angry and disgusted by him (now that I finally know who he is). How could I be friends with someone as low as he is? I can’t. Trying for friendship is just one of the phases of shock. You’re still trying to make the impossible right. It takes another few levels of epiphany to get to “no fucking way will I ever talk to this asshole again.”

  • I know that this is a previously-run column. But to everyone out there who finds themselves in a similar place….

    (1) Consider that “butt dialed” moment (or whatever it is) as being a Gift to you from your Guardian Angel.

    (2) Read every single comment that shows up in this blog. The citizens of Chump Nation have the wisdom that you need to continue on your journey of becoming a True Human Being.

    (3) When things get hard, chant “meh” as others would chant “AUM”: Inhale slowly and deeply, down into very bottom of your gut. Then slowly breathe out “me-e-e-e-e-eh” with your exhale, pushing out all of your breath from the bottom of your gut.

    (4) Repeat #3 as often as necessary, until you are One-with-Meh.

    • (5) If you are in contact with them for any reason other than you have to because of kids you have together, thinking there is a chance for friendship, you are not at Meh. Meh would be either blocking them, or if you can’t, not responding to baiting texts and being unfazed by their life, including “hospital” visits.

        • Yes! The LW made a rookie mistake – no block means they WILL reach out to you at some point and try to squeeze kibbles out of you. No Contact is best with guardrails.

      • And next time it will be “a sick parent”, etc., etc. Not your problem any longer. BLOCK!! Any if he shows up at your door, gym, work, etc., tell him you will call the cops if he doesn’t leave immediately. And, NO, you can’t be “friends”. This user will waste the rest of your life doing this. It is up to you to cut this CANCER/CRIMINAL out of your life…100% and immediately.

        • This is so true! 3+ years NC and I received a text from one of his family members to give me what she called a life update on several members of his family. Included in the message was the statement, “too much to text.” It was clearly an attempt to get me to call someone in the family or possibly my ex, but I simply replied with “thank you for letting me know” and left it there.

          My previous self would have been on the phone in about 10 seconds but the new, healing version reminded me that he is no longer a part of my life and neither is his family. I love Meh.

  • This whole post is an advertisement for No Contact.
    Even the slightest contact spreads mindfuckery like a contagious disease. To get well, go no contact.

    I received a birthday postcard from FW last year, after four years of No Contact. It went straight to the garbage.

    • Received sympathy cards from ex & his parents for an out of state relative – have no idea how they knew. This was a year post divorce & 2 yrs of NC. Into the shredder they went. That was 10yrs ago so I figure they got the hint to leave me alone.

    • Nice. My scumbag ex sent me a birthday card after our divorce then demanded to know why I didn’t thank him “given all that’s happened”.

      Poor victim that he is…..I sometimes wronged him.

      The irony is that cards were never that big to me. They were big to Him, but even at the end he did what HE liked. Didn’t even include a gift card, which I would have liked.

      I ignored everything.

      • His birthday is 4 days before mine.
        On the first birthday after our divorce, I did not wish him a happy birthday. #NC #obvi. Of course, to that covert narcissist this was an unforgivable slight.

        Four days later, I received this message: “I want to acknowledge your birthday.”

        That was FW’s passive-aggressive way of telling me that I should have wished him a happy birthday.

        He does passive-aggressive like no other. A true pro. #fuckhim.

  • One of the things I did right was cut him off. I mean, I kicked him out, started divorce and child custody proceedings, but the thing that upset him most was blocking him on facebook. The nerve of me! He didnt understand why we couldn’t be friends. I told him “I have friends, friends dont purposely hurt me.” And that was definitely the right thing. When he gets lonely or whatever he tries to send me missives about his life along with requests to take our son for an extra weekend because he just can’t. He is dying for me to ask. I never do. “Ok” and “no that won’t work for us” are the only things I say. He has stopped sending me so much glurge, but occasionally he tries again. Like a toddler wanting my attention. No thank you, my time is precious and I’m not giving it to you.

  • About a year after my cheating ex-husband and I divorced I had a terrible slip up, a momentary (severe) lapse in judgment and I … well, I can’t even type it, but you know what I did. IMMEDIATELY after he left my apartment, I doused myself in holy water. I slipped and fell. It happens. Even though I was fully cognizant that he was a lousy scumbag who mistreated and emotionally abused me, but I don’t know… I lost all sense of rationale for a few hours. Picked myself up, dusted (or rather scrubbed) myself clean and NO CONTACT. No contact. No contact. No contact. My life regained its equilibrium.

    I remained no contact even though he, now living with his equally scummy GF who would become his second wife, tried every so often to contact me. No contact. No contact. No contact. I was on solid ground. Meh was achieved, no contact was the norm.

    About 5 years after the divorce, my mom passed away. About two days after her passing and a day before her burial, I came home to a message on my answering machine (remember those?) from FW stating, “Oh, I just heard about (“mom”), I’m soooo sorry, you know how much I loved her…” followed by a voice-altered, saccharin sounding “please call me…” and gave me his new phone number (by this time he was living in another state, across the country).

    For a moment, I was overtaken with rage. I wanted to call him and scream, “How dare you desecrate the mourning of my mother!!” but my cooler head prevailed. I hit the delete message button on my phone with as much force as I use to hold together two objects after I’ve crazy-glued them together. End of story. Erased. Gone. No contact.

    I remained no contact until he never called again. I would hear occasionally through the mutual grapevine just how dysfunctional his relationship was with his new sucker-fool-wife, but I just laughed. It was delightful 1) not to care at all and 2) to know I remained free and clear through NO CONTACT.

    No response is the best response ever.

    • Same for me. We were still legally separated and it was about 2 ish months after he left. I let him come home for a few days, he was just using me to get access to our family car for a few days. That is how little he regarded me.

      Luckily for me he was so dammed nasty, I kicked him out in just a few days. In all the years to his death, I never spoke to him in any substantial way again. At the very few grandchild events we both attended it was just a cursory nod in passing.

      And honestly I didn’t hate him anymore, in fact in some ways I felt sorry for the mess he had made of his life, and was continuing to make.

      I even cried like a baby when he died, but I know it was because of my son and what he had gone through more than anything.

      I am sorry though that he never really recognized the horror of the choices he made and how he treated folks including our son. I think that is in part why he just kept chasing the next thrill, he was running from himself and he just couldn’t get away.

      Once he married whore she got the same treatment, only worse because he left her penniless and living in a trailer. There was no big insurance policy or widows pension, he dropped both of those. She only worked until about age 38ish, so all she has in a small SS pension. He was not under SS, so there was no pension.

      My son did hear about a pay out from VA for men who got some money if they developed diabetes, and he helped whore fill out the paperwork, and after the lawyer took his/her cut she got five thousand dollars. I am glad she got that, but beyond that “whatever”.

      She has a couple sons, but they are both useless in terms of any help to her.

      But I am human, and I just don’t have any feelings about her, except well you wanted my life you got it. I am sure my life with him looked better to her on the outside, after all he was showering her with money and gifts. Hush money, as soon as he was outed there was no more need for hush money.

      • “And honestly I didn’t hate him anymore, in fact in some ways I felt sorry for the mess he had made of his life, and was continuing to make.

        I even cried like a baby when he died, but I know it was because of my son and what he had gone through more than anything.

        I am sorry though that he never really recognized the horror of the choices he made and how he treated folks including our son. I think that is in part why he just kept chasing the next thrill, he was running from himself and he just couldn’t get away.

        Once he married whore she got the same treatment”

        I could have written this (except he never got as far as marrying the whore, since our divorce wasn’t finalized before he died, and she had already left him anyway). OW got nothing, and I’m sure she resented that, as she had lent him $30K and she will never see it again. “I just don’t have any feelings about her, except well you wanted my life you got it. I am sure my life with him looked better to her on the outside”. She didn’t realize that the good parts of my life were MY doing, not his. Without me, it wasn’t anything the same. In the end she did me a favor, as my life is now wonderful, so much better than it was with FW. I would have stayed with him and been miserable if it weren’t for the affair. As it is, he dumped me for her and freed me to live my best, most authentic life. I couldn’t be happier.

      • “I think that is in part why he just kept chasing the next thrill, he was running from himself and he just couldn’t get away.”

        I get it, Susie. As they say, “Wherever you go, there you are.”

        I’ve been thinking about this lately. I truly believe that my ex is mentally ill (Cluster B) and that he blames externals for his misery. He looks for ways to escape his pain by drinking to excess, watching tons of porn, having affairs, blaming others, and fishing til his arm falls off.

        No doubt he’s constantly frustrated because his problems are internal. For him to get better, he’d have to address his own problems. I’m guessing that will never happen. Self-awareness isn’t his strong suit. #understatement

        • I find it helpful to think of abusers as criminally disordered rather than “mentally ill.” Someone who’s genuinely mentally ill wouldn’t have the wherewithal to cover up their deeds with such skill and reverse blame the way abusers typically do. The truth is that mentally disabled individuals are far more likely to be victimized than average and far less likely than average to pose a danger to others.

          Forgive the spiel but I developed contact-PTSD from what I learned about discriminatory treatment of the mentally disabled while working for disability rights attorneys for several years. It was like a trip to the abyss of human savagery. You can’t unsee it and I’m now a bit triggery about labels and wary of adding to the general demonization of the mentally ill and don’t use the term for those who prey on others or at least separate the tendency to prey from whatever mental condition the person has. Conflation of the two things is what enables corrupt police (with abuser mentality) to get away with using excessive force against the disabled (the most frequent victims of this) and corrupt special schools and institutions (with abuser mentality) to get away with the abuse and “accidental” but forseeable killings of more than 150 disabled individuals a year, mostly children. The GAO researched the latter issue almost a decade ago and concluded that the usual institutional excuse for using notoriously dangerous “disciplinary” tactics against disabled children– the idea that these children posed a danger to themselves or others– was unfounded in the vast majority of cases. Mostly these children were simply being harmlessly “disruptive” before staff threw them on the ground into face-down prone restraint, piled up on them and crushed the life out of them. The fact that institutional perpetrators rarely face legal consequences even when victims die rides on public myths that mentally disabled people are often violent.

          Since then I distinguish abusers as a different category of “crazy.” There’s a certain precedent for it. One of the leading experts on DV, Canadian criminologist Donald Dutton, carefully separates the concept of mental illness from typically personality disordered batterers who are too cagey and canny and scheming to be viewed as “disabled” even if they’re often self-destructive, usually endured abuse as children and “suffer” accordingly.

          • Point well taken. I appreciate your knowledge about this issue.

            I hope this is better: My ex is a character-challenged, entitled, abusive, manipulative, lying jerk who happens to have a personality disorder.

            • Lol, that totally fills the bill! Please pardon the lecture-y sounding comment. To date there’s still no central government database tracking cases of institutional abuse of the disabled or related deaths and no changes in policy or improvements so I imagine the death toll has doubled in intervening years. The sense that the horror is ongoing increases the risk of suddenly spewing information at the next person who make any reference to the subject. The organization I worked with was sometimes getting information and documentation directly from surviving families which meant there was no abstract buffer against the horror or injustice of it. I remember how some of the lawyers collecting accounts would find themselves going wild-eyed and quaky-voiced as they told random strangers about restraint and seclusion in schools and institutions.

              Call it post-traumatic hyperactivism. I imagine most humanitarian awareness campaigns have been fueled by people spewing out first-hand or secondary trauma. Without it we probably wouldn’t know anything about anything. There’s a beautiful scene from the film Citizen X that reminds me of that experience.

              Fetisov : Goddamn it! What is happening to me? My heart is pounding, my collar feels tight; what the hell is this?
              Burakov : Passion.

  • Perhaps his ego is such that he needs you clutching on to him no matter how poorly he treats you. Even while he’s with another sucker for his so easily tossed I love yous. These guys really do live in their little fantasy world. This guy deserves to be I the hospital…with two broken legs, a gag and no phone. Not much left then.

  • Set your boundaries, and make them inviolate. Cheaters are like children who test boundaries to see what they can get away with. But you are talking about an adult (in theory).
    If you let him mistreat you in this way, he will not only continue that form of abuse, but will escalate it.

    Slam that door in his face. NO contact, no matter how pathetic he is, or pretends to be. If it helps, remember that NOTHING drives a cheater more crazy than NC, even while you are using it to heal.

    • All three of my cheater/liar/narcs stalked me (gym/parties/family) and showed up at my front door, when I dumped and no contacted them. And they all had OW that they were with at the time. One is not enough for these freaks.
      They are not your friend. They are cancer/criminals, and you have to get very threatening (“I will call the cops”) when you no contact them and cut off their supply. NO CONTACT for life!!

  • The hospital line was bait. My life improved hundredfold when I improved my ability to recognize bait.

    Bait is 100% always about exploiting the natural tendencies one recognizes in the fish. It is always an invitation to a bad outcome. (Case in point, ask the fish.)

    That guy must have known he was going to need another place to land, because he went fishing. Usually people who fish cast a line to see which fish they catch.

    For all we know, that butt dial could have happened at yet another AP’s house. For all we know, it wasn’t even a butt dial. For all we know, he wasn’t even really kicked out.

    The thing we DO know is that he was casting a line with a big wad of bait on it.

    Get better at not going for such bait, and we usually find our lives are less chaotic and our friendships are more stable and mutually beneficial. 😊

    • Well said. You are absolutely right–they throw out the bait they think will catch us.

      During separation, my ex had heart problems and ended up in the hospital for surgery. He had his friends call me, then his NURSE, who said he had given consent to discuss his condition with me. I asked her for an honest assessment and she told me he was fine and just wanted attention. I told her I left him because of abuse, and had no interest in visiting or speaking to him. Then he called himself and left a voice mail since I didn’t pick up. I suspected he was after a nurse with a purse to recuperate, rather than go to a nursing facility. So glad I didn’t take the bait.

    • 💯

      And a good reminder that sometimes these are not true butt dials but rather intentional calls. Be suspicious. Don’t take their word for it. As CL’s says, “Shields up!”

      • Or a subconscious need to get caught? Ever notice how toddlers become more and more hysterical when adults don’t set boundaries? I think it causes an existential crisis. Toddlers don’t know they exist unless certain limits are set and on some level find it reassuring when mom/dad stops them from knocking cans and bottles off grocery store shelves or ripping down the Christmas lights.

        I think adult abusers are mostly giant rampaging babies. For all the expert sneaking around and duper’s delight, on some level they resent the hell out of mommy/daddy for not stopping them.

  • I actually had to laugh when he texted that he was in hospital. How bloody transparent (and desperate) can you get! She should have texted back “nothing trivial I hope”!

  • Cheaters are unfit friends, fiancees, romantic partners, or parents.

    Trust and safety are the non-negotiable bedrock inextricable essential elementary basic bottom line qualities of any healthy relationship. If someone proves themselves to be a liar, put a lot of real estate between you and them and cut the communication lines.

    Jamming an unfit square person into the round hole of any kind of relationship is crafty (and very unhelpful way) to avoid my own pain, reinforcing that what they did Wasn’t That Bad.

    You don’t need a lot of friends in this life, and you don’t have time for a lot of friends either. You just need a few really good ones. Your life should be the most exclusive social club with the highest membership fees in the world.

    Practicing integrity and making integrity the membership fee is a good way to sort out the lowlifes.

    • And as for yesterday topic, a parent who lies and cheats is severely damaging their children too. My mother was a cheater, and also an active alcoholic who never got into recovery. She said to me, the child who got into recovery and therapy and stayed there, “the reason our family is screwed up is because I have two screwed up kids.”

      No one will ever successfully sell me the absolute horse shit that a cheating parent is a good parent, and selling my daughter the idea that her dad is a good parent would be making her into shark bait.

      • I couldn’t agree more, Velvet. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but IMO, instead of trying to refrain from telling children truthful, but negative, things about the cheating, lying parent after D-day, it seems like we should be encouraged to tell them more. I really struggled with this because I understood the harm it could cause by being too truthful, and thus negative, about my son’s father, but at the same time, I wanted him to have the information so he wouldn’t be deceived and hurt by him like I was, because I knew that if FW lied to, cheated, and devastated me, he could do it to our son. It’s a fine line, but my son was older, 13, my son found out about the cheating without me telling him, and my son already had very little relationship with his father because even while in the home for 13 years, FW had very little interest in him. Thus, when I inevitably reacted to FW’s abuse by spouting so many negative, angry things about FW in front of my son, not only did I not feel guilty about it (because I didn’t cause it, FW did, and I was in such trauma I couldn’t have stopped it if I’d wanted to), but in some ways I think it was a good thing.

        This is probably not the majority opinion, but I stand by it. And in just a few years, when FW promised to pay for son’s college tuition, then backed out, torturing my son, until finally FW was pressured by his sister to uphold his agreement to pay, I could see that arming my son with knowledge of the type of person his father is was at least a little bit helpful to explain to my son why his FW father could act that way to him. There are many other smaller examples as well. To this day, my son loves his father, but he’s cautious when it comes to him. He knows to take what he says with a grain of salt, to watch his actions, not his words, etc. If FW proves himself to my son over time as a caring, honest, conscientious, loving, truthful, trustworthy father, great. I would be so happy for my son. But I do not regret arming him with the knowledge of how these types of people think and act, even if it’s his own father.

        • VH and CBN, I also couldn’t agree more. I wrote a lengthy response( how unusual for me! 🥴) but it got zapped before I sent it off.
          I also want to keep my kids from being shark bait. I worried so much over who he would abuse when he didn’t have me to abuse anymore and I thought it would be one or all of my kids.
          That’s when protecting the FW takes a back seat to their safety. They need to know who their father is, as much as it hurts to know it, so they can safeguard themselves and establish boundaries with him. They are highly skilled manipulators that need a warning label.
          My FW told them many many sordid details of his life that he labeled to them with his smirky self satisfied look “ his ho days”. They were traumatized by it and failed to see the humor as he did.
          I didn’t have to tell them any of my unfun stories, they had enough material already to realize he’s not a person to be trusted and he doesn’t have their backs. Painful but really important discoveries to have made.

  • I stayed far too long. My ex sucked me back via sad sausage, weaponizing my own empathy and caring against me. I now realize I was an absolute sucker for the sad sausage narrative, and for taking upon myself his pain–either comforting him or ascribing to my failings in the first place. It took me years to stop pick-me dancing, start seeing reality, and put down the hopium pipe. But one thing I’ll say is that having once learned my lesson, I stayed true to it. When he tried on his bids for sympathy after we separated, I did not bite, even when he once tried a sad sausage move for my failure to respond to his first sad sausage appeal.

  • Ignore if you see him in public. Practice a blank expression and pull it out if you see the jerk or he tries to speak to you. Repeat as necessary.

    • It IS a practice of having a good blank stare. I have to interact with my ex a lot because I have three young kids. From time to time, I find myself smiling at him accidentally if I’m happy at some kid event and happen to turn my head in his direction. He always gives this sad sausage smile back, like Oh! She smiled at me! And then a nano second later my brain processes that I’m smiling at him, not just another random parent, and my face now automatically goes blank. It’s a handy reaction that I’ve honed. It’s very clear, probably to everyone present, that my happiness is to be shared with everyone present except him.

  • ChumpLady’s husband won’t like this, but the next time he texts, please text back “I’m sorry, who is this?” When he tells you who he is and what hospital he is in, please tell him that you’ve fallen in love with a wonderful man, now know what real love feels like, and never want to see or hear from him again. Then block his number. It’s not honest, but it will make him feel small, which is a gift to all women and yourself.

    • Will it? Or will it just convince him that “she really cares, or she wouldn’t be trying to get a rise out of me”?

      No response + block forever is the only way.

    • I think she should – if she were to respond – not say she is someone else. She is a solid enough person to stand in her own without “needing” someone else, like he apparently does. Being alone is preferable to being with a FW. Be genuine and honest. Never stoop to FW level. Don’t lie. This is why no contact is best, too. You’re not even tempted to make something up. Just ignore!

    • Principled life, I don’t think it will make him feel small, as you are hoping. But it will make him feel relevant to your life, and that’s kibbles enough for him.
      The only real way to get them is no contact or gray rock if you can’t do the full NC.
      What would bother you to hear from someone “ I’m sorry, who is this?”, will not work the same on them. They are not geared like us at all. That’s what’s given the upper hand all along in our lives. They don’t operate like humans typically would. It’s an advantage for them until their mask slips.

  • That’s actually a valid question. Friendship with your FW ex is possible, but it will be on the FW’s terms and FW will never reciprocate your level of caring. IMO, anyone who’s okay with that needs to work on their self esteem, but whatever. Lots of people have shallow friendships in which they are the giver and the other is the taker. I think it’s a waste of time, but that’s me. Others might feel differently.

    My FW wanted to be friends. I said no. He’s been angry ever since. Here’s me not giving a single shit how he feels. FWs want to be friends just to keep you around for when opportunities to get laid are thin or they need somebody to spend the holidays with. Also, they want to use a friendship offer as a Trojan horse to turn you into the AP so they can cheat on the whore they cheated on you with. I suspect that once they start cheating, they find they can no longer live without duper’s delight. “Friendship” with that? No thanks.

    • “FWs want to be friends just to keep you around for when opportunities to get laid are thin or they need somebody to spend the holidays with.”

      This exactly. I am certain my cheater wanted me in the wings “needing” his help on some things so he could get a freebie every once in a while. And imagine the glorious kibbles of whore knowing you are “helping” your ex out once in a while. She will be dancing up a storm trying to make sure she keeps being the chosen one.

      My cheater even offered to co sign for a loan for a car. I said no thanks. First of all I was legally entitled to the same credit rating we had built together, so I already knew I could get it on my own. And even if that were not the case, my brother would have signed.

      • Didn’t you oncw say your FW had taken your car? I seem to remember something like that about your car.

  • Today is the first anniversary of D day. May 24th 2022. The day my husband told me how much our marriage meant to him and how he was a new man after 3 years of lies I did not know about. Then I asked the fateful question 4 times.HAVE. YOU. BEEN .FAITHFUL TO ME. No answer. Silence. After the 4th.question, he confessed and told me I drove him to do it and and it was the OW fault at work for tempting him. He dropped to the ground and when he looked up, he had a cold hard look on his face. Like a reptile. And he morphed into the cruel person he really was under his mask. We just went through mediation and he tried to reel me in like a fish caught on the line. I did not cave, i did not cave and I kept my dignity and pride. So important to see myself as having enough self esteem to love who I am. I had boundaries of love for myself. After 32 years I felt that gravitational pull towards my cheater. It is so strong. But my desire to be treated as a beloved treasure and not as a vending machine won the day. My lawyer and her paralegal and God in heaven,saved me. I will turn this dark anniversary day into a celebration by living on my own, and enjoying true friends and other loves. It was worth leaving for. I am too precious to waste being a side dish. I’m the main course or nothing.

  • My XH has numerous options in play at all times. He’s disgusting. There is no way to be “friends” with anyone with this appalling lack of character.

    On a side note, has anyone watched the episode of Jewish Matchmaker where Fay promptly ends it with Shayla? It’s a Master Class in how to date – to know your worth and act accordingly. I’m going to watch it again tonight. That’s how I want to be in all my interactions.

  • In the canon of Cheater Lies, the “I told you I was alone because I FELT alone” (even though I was with my girlfriend) stands out for its sheer, audacious mindfuckery.

  • Fuckface is a sociopath and master of deception and self-pity – that’s how he manipulated me in the first place.

    After I discovered his double life, he quickly turned on the self-pity and charm channel…but this time it didn’t work. Then came the rage channel – unreal how textbook these predators are! No contact (and LACGAL) saved my life.

    I’m sure my silence ate him alive…fuck him. No contact is definitely the magic elixir to healing. So happy he’s out of my life. He’s pure evil.

  • At some point, the lightbulb goes off and you realize how shallow and cliched both fuckwits and schmoopies truly are.

    The trash took itself out, it only will stink more over time, and so there is no reason to ever have it your life anymore.

    • “Shallow and cliched” is right. At this point in my healing journey I am grateful the affair happened. It was the push I needed to get out of a “marriage” that was slowly destroying me. At first I was heartbroken and wondered why I wasn’t enough. And then I realized OW wasn’t anything special, she was just convenient, easy to manipulate, and ignorant of what he was like (to some extent – I mean, she knew he was a cheater, but that didn’t seem to bother her, another sign she wasn’t anything to be jealous of).

  • I think OP that you’re “in a fog” as I once was. Once I was out of it, I realized my ex-husband was treating me like someone he didn’t even like, never mind someone he was supposed to love. Friendship is based on mutual respect & caring. If there isn’t that, then it’s just a user-transactional relationship. In addition to the fabulous Chump Lady blog & book, I recommend checking out: to recognize abusive tactics.

  • I watched this movie called “The Quiet Girl” on Amazon prime last night. (It’s an Irish flick that is up for international Oscar recognition.)
    It was so well done. It’s about this 9 year old girl who is sent away to live with distant relatives in the country.
    Seems like it has nothing to do with getting chumped, right, then why am I even bringing it up at all? Lol!
    I think the reason the movie hit me so hard is because it showed how genuine love can fill your soul up and how being unseen and made to feel insignificant can empty you completely of any life force.
    FW’s do this to us. And it’s not sudden, the one cheating episode where they just fell madly in love with someone and couldn’t help themselves. Why can’t we just be big and forgive them for that? They are only human after all.
    No, it’s the gradually, painfully drawn out, debilitating cancellation of our very worth on this earth that we can’t fully grasp or see when it’s happening that’s the issue. That’s where the harm comes from. They try to erase us by devaluing us so profoundly, we then sink so low, we start to erase ourselves, making their task a whole lot easier.
    We need to fill our lives with ppl that continually fill us up, as we do them, and we don’t need to be “ friends” with the energy vampires, who are not at all interested in our well being.
    If they are friends with us, they can be seen as a “good person” to others and what they did was not so bad if we “ let bygones be bygones” and befriend them. Forgiveness is a much lauded trait to have in the world. Even when it may be very dangerous for the forgiver.
    It’s just another trick. It becomes another effective way they will use us, til they decide when they are fully done, hurt and discard us again. If ever I forgive my FWs destruction of my family, it will only be silently and from a safe distance away from him. He will never be in my life again.
    These FWs cart around toxicity, tossing its dark energy out of their little wobbly wagons, poisoning whomever they choose to hit with it.
    They will never get to know what real love is about, I don’t believe personally that they are even capable of that. Something broke within them along the way and they just are not fixable.
    They will never be up for the level of caring and sacrifice that is necessary to truly love anyone, their children, themselves, their dalliances, no one, it is not in their wheelhouses to make that happen.
    Superficiality is just so much easier, faster and cheaper to get from people. And it’s good enough for them. Intimacy and deep bonds require more than they are willing to give to anyone.
    Why would any of us, having the choice, choose to keep that kind of energy in our lives? They is not friendship material, IMO.
    Losing FWs is a powerful ticket to a more peaceful, genuine, and loving world. When we pass the grief and sorrow for what we thought we had and lost and then begin to realize what negative forces we are now free from, I think that’s the Tuesday out there we’re not fully sure exists that CL speaks of. I think it requires of us a leap of faith to get over to it. It’s a long process of believing there can be goodness in the world.
    Asks Mary Oliver of us all :
    “What do we plan to do with our one wild and precious life?”
    Befriending FWs has been removed from my list of options. I know my worth.

  • I did want to add that my STBXH tried the hospital admission x2 and texted me to pick him up or to come to the ER. .Just days after D day and with a restraining order in place. He texted he didn’t know how he took me forgranted and how he needed me. I had zero response though I felt weak as I’m a chump nurse. Days later he was back to his rage about me filling and he wanted his stuff out of the house. It is not love even though it was for 32 years. I built castles in the clouds, now I have to let those dreams blow away and build a better foundation. You must watch for the mask and when it drops believe what they show you. My SYBXH had a girl friend or two the whole time and online gigs as well. I was just one of the harem.

  • “Friends.” Means secret opposite sex friend who they take off the shelf every so often to play with. Maybe every so often they get together with you in secret. Maybe they work with you. They have many secret opposite sex friends. None of them know each other or have met, or if they have they have no idea the depth of their friendship. They all think they are special. My FW always had a cadre of secret women friends. Always has a main woman who meets his needs at home. Then a few secret women who he texted alot. If you found out about one, he would switch to another. Cycled through them. They were just friends who he worked with or met at a networking event or CE class and hes always looking for a new job so needs to keep in touch afterall they are all in the same industry. And he never sexted them or told them he loved them or sent dic pics. Yes he may have texted all day long but it was innocent they are just friends. Its a pattern. All women are interchangeable and replaceable to them. And they can let them fade away and be replaced by another. They will never know you. They dont know your favorite color, or food or movie or that the rain makes you sad or you like to walk in it and watch thunderstorms. No depth to them. There is no depth to you in their eyes. They live a shallow life.

  • This is why chumps who do not have kids with the cheater are not really at Meh if they haven’t blocked the cheater on their phone. This person had no reason to be in contact with an ex-fiance, other than as the object of toking on a lot of hopium.

    No contact, people.

  • I think I FINALLY understand how these Fuckwits work. Trick, abuse, devalue-and then sit back and watch. Will the possible Chump go for it? Are they emotionally fit, or will they bow and scrape to my fabulousness?
    We show these jerks where our line is, or if we even have one. Once you see it, the games are so obvious, and it’s so amusing to watch the FW’s anger when we refuse to play. That’s our power!

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