Boyfriend Gets on Dating Apps When He’s Mad at Her
When they fight, her boyfriend gets on dating apps and then blames her for it. They break up, but she keeps going back. How can she break the cycle?
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Dear Chump Lady,
I’m reaching out because I feel stuck in a toxic cycle with my boyfriend, and I don’t know how to break free. I’ve read Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life, and I need that tough-love version of you to snap me out of this, because right now, I’m lost.
My boyfriend has emotionally cheated on me multiple times — downloading dating apps, flirting with other women, lying to me, and hiding things behind my back.
He has never come to me on his own to admit what he’s done. I always find out on my own. I’ll discover the apps on his phone, see messages, or notice deleted conversations that he’s tried to hide. When I confront him, he denies that it’s “real cheating,” minimizes his actions, or blames me. He says things like, “We weren’t in a good place,” or “I felt insecure,”.
Sometimes, my boyfriend gets on dating apps, not because we’ve broken up or anything catastrophic has happened, but simply because we’ve had a fight or I’ve needed physical space. I’ve noticed a pattern where sometimes after an argument, he’ll go straight to a dating app that same day to seek attention or validation.
This has left me with so much trauma, always second-guessing every argument and wondering if he’s talking to someone else. I know I am not perfect, but I love him and I want this relationship to work. When I first found out about his cheating, I tried being a “better partner”. Cooking more, buying groceries, planning dates etc. I have given my all to this relationship. I have lived with him, moved out, lived with him again, and recently moved out again.
Over the past year, I’ve broken up with him multiple times.
Each time, I feel confident in my decision at first, but within a few days, I feel this overwhelming void and end up going back to him. I know he expects me to come back, and I hate that I keep proving him right. He’ll love-bomb me with sweet words and promises to change, and I get sucked back in.
I’ve tried to hold him accountable, but it feels like I’m hitting a brick wall. When I push him, he apologizes. But it’s always surface-level — there’s no real remorse, no deep accountability. He avoids hard conversations, brushes off my feelings, and tells me to “move on” every time I bring up the past. He wants me to focus on the positives of the relationship. Go on trips, have a fun weekend with him, have tons of sex…
The worst part? I can’t seem to let go.
Even though I know this relationship is toxic, I keep going back. I tell myself it’s over, I cry my eyes out, and then within a few days, I’m with him again. I know he expects me to come back, and I hate that I keep proving him right.
The cheating has taken such an emotional toll on me. Every time I find out about another dating app or deleted message, it feels like a knife to the chest. I’ve started questioning my own worth, wondering if I’m not enough or if I’m too difficult to love. It’s hard not to feel like I’m the problem.
When I try to leave, the guilt is overwhelming. I imagine him as helpless and sad, crying in his apartment. I feel like a monster for “hurting him,” even though he’s the one who’s hurt me time and time again. And I feel guilty for not being able to fix him or save the relationship.
At the same time, I feel like I’m clinging to hope that doesn’t exist. He has times where he’s sweet, kind, and attentive, and those moments trick me into thinking things could be different. He’ll buy me dinner, ask about my day, or do something thoughtful, and for a second, I forget the lies, the cheating, and the manipulation.
The cycle of hope and disappointment is exhausting.
It feels like I’m carrying the entire relationship on my back — trying to rebuild trust, hold him accountable, and make things work — while he just coasts by, hoping I’ll forget what he’s done.
I need someone to remind me of what I already know but can’t seem to hold on to: that this relationship is damaging me and that my boyfriend isn’t going to change. Please give me the tough love and clarity I need to finally let go.
Sincerely,
Lost in the Cycle
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Dear Lost in the Cycle,
It sounds like you have clarity that your relationship is damaging. Where you falter is over the hope that your boyfriend will change.
He might change.
Fuck him anyway.
That’s the attitude you need to embrace. Fuck him for treating you this way. Screw his immaturity, his blameshifting, his piss-poor treatment of women. Whoever this iteration of your boyfriend is — permanent douchebag or junior Ethical Person trainee — fuck him. He’s a project. Unavailable for a healthy relationship.
That leaves you with the question — do you want a relationship, ANY relationship? Or do you want a healthy relationship?
Because he’s available for an unhealthy relationship.
And if you dump him, there’s some poor woman out there with low standards who will take him off your hands. Heck, she, or ten of her, are probably already waiting in the wings or currently in rotation. Dude’s on dating sites. Not just as revenge, but to meet women.
So, let’s address your FOMO (fear of missing out). Your boyfriend perhaps has FOMO on other women, so he gets on dating apps when he’s mad at you. Who can he swap you out for? Is there a less disagreeable woman filter? And you have FOMO on him. Can’t let this dreamboat get away. You’re in it to WIN it. Because you refuse to accept that this guy is NOT a prize worth having.
He’s not a prize worth having!
I can type that, I can’t get you to believe it. You’re going to have to decolonize your mind on that front. As Chump Lady, I’m up against a whole cultural current that you must reconcile with FWs, be friends, let bygones be bygones, forgive and eat a buffet of shit sandwiches lest you be deemed bitter. Add to that the imperative that We All Must Be Coupled and single cat ladies are the death knell of civilization. (Unlike broligarchy, which apparently is the new zeitgeist. In with misogyny!)
I get that if you’re a straight woman, you want a relationship. And the selection pool can be pretty depressing. But for God sake’s, woman!
THERE ARE STANDARDS.
My boyfriend has emotionally cheated on me multiple times — downloading dating apps, flirting with other women, lying to me, and hiding things behind my back.
Sounds like a shit boyfriend.
When I confront him, he denies that it’s “real cheating,” minimizes his actions, or blames me. He says things like, “We weren’t in a good place,” or “I felt insecure,”.
This is where you invoke your standards. You may be disappointed, or even heartbroken at invoking standards, but it’s better to have standards than a FW.
Cheating isn’t a relationship tool that fixes insecurity. It’s a weapon deployed to hurt you.
This is important information. When he has a wobble, his first impulse is to punish you. And get you to believe that you deserve it. Run, do not walk, to the exits.
Each time, I feel confident in my decision at first, but within a few days, I feel this overwhelming void and end up going back to him. I know he expects me to come back, and I hate that I keep proving him right. He’ll love-bomb me with sweet words and promises to change, and I get sucked back in.
He can’t love bomb you if you’re no contact. GO NO CONTACT.
Why aren’t you shutting him down? Hopium that he’ll change? Put down the pipe.
You don’t control his abusiveness and you don’t control if he’ll change. He probably won’t, in my opinion (based on a gazillion stories here and my own lived experience). But it’s not outside the laws of physics. He could change, but he’d still be the FW who destroyed this relationship with his abuse.
So radically accept two things:
- Your behavior doesn’t make him abusive OR kind.
- He destroyed your relationship.
I know you want the good love-bombing stuff minus the asshole stuff. They’re a package deal. The good stuff is just a hook. People with integrity are awkward and don’t lead with sparkles. Charlatans sparkle.
How many times has he promised to change, and hasn’t?
The cheating has taken such an emotional toll on me. Every time I find out about another dating app or deleted message, it feels like a knife to the chest. I’ve started questioning my own worth, wondering if I’m not enough or if I’m too difficult to love. It’s hard not to feel like I’m the problem.
Yeah, because you’re in constant contact with a FW. If I surrounded myself with a paranoid schizophrenic who constantly yelled at me that I was a space alien trying to control him with mind rays, I might start to believe it. GET AWAY FROM THE CRAZY PERSON.
You know who is “too difficult to love”? THE FW YOU ARE WITH. And yet you persist!
You are not unloveable, you’re just mindfucked. It’s a very common problem and completely within your control to fix. Shut off his manipulation channels. You’ll return to your sense of self-worth.
It’s not your job to save him.
When I try to leave, the guilt is overwhelming. I imagine him as helpless and sad, crying in his apartment. I feel like a monster for “hurting him,” even though he’s the one who’s hurt me time and time again. And I feel guilty for not being able to fix him or save the relationship.
Here’s another thing to radically accept: He doesn’t give a shit about you.
You imagine he’s sad and weeping without you. No, evidence shows that your boyfriend is cruising dating apps. Looking for his next chumpy sucker who will put up with his crap. He’s not a helpless kitten who knows not what he does. He’s an abuser with a deliberate strategy to hurt you to preserve his entitlement.
Will there come a day when he questions his entitlement and rues the day he was a FW? I don’t know. God is perverse. Where are the lightning bolts? Levying a consequence — like removing yourself from his life — gets you further than tolerating his bullshit.
He doesn’t feel like a monster for hurting YOU. And why would you spend 2 seconds with a man like that? Unless you believe in his entitlement, that he’s the Most Important Person here.
I don’t believe that shit, and I suggest you don’t believe it either. Start NO CONTACT today.


Asking about your day is the absolute least they can do. You already did the hard part – you moved out! Just get busy and stay away! It wont get better. You go girl!
But his supposed love-bombing game isn’t even on-point! Buying you dinner? Asking about your day? Sheesh, an acquaintance from work could do that. And it sounds like he rarely tosses that crumb your way anyhow.
I say this with love, LW, but you are trying to control the outcome here — and you can’t. You cannot control another person by transforming them into someone they are not. He. Is. An. Asshole. That’s it.
No contact is the key to your freedom from this abuse.
“But his supposed love-bombing game isn’t even on-point! Buying you dinner? Asking about your day? Sheesh, an acquaintance from work could do that. And it sounds like he rarely tosses that crumb your way anyhow.” That depends on the level of loneliness one is used to. What I miss most from my FW? Being in a public place and not alone: the subway, a restaurant. At home and not alone. The lazier a FW is, the lonelier targets he chooses.
That is a very good insight Disfor. The loneliness does most of the work. Hence why FWs after they’ve captured their prey invest a lot of time isolating them through various strategies (often covert like subtly undermining outside supports, ability to maintain employment, etc often reinforced by social norms). This is just the beginning of decades of pain possibly escalating to physical violence if this young lady can’t escape now.
For me, being with the FW and still feeling alone was waaaay worse. And I mean physically with him. Like, we’re at an event, and he’s acting like he can’t stand to look at me. Or he’s looking over my shoulder to see who else he can talk to.
That’s some real-talk loneliness right there.
Exactly!
FYI_ that is exactly how I felt with FW, and my Chump boyfriend with his ex wife. I felt BETTER when FW was gone.
Yes, I get that to. Mine did it in public only at the very end – in the narcissistic discard phase. He just is primarily autoerotic.
Yeah love a bit of public devaluation and then gaslighting the shit out of you when you get home by pretending none of that happened and why on earth would you suggest there is a problem those bitches be crazy when clearly they are out scoping for fresh meat/new supply. I dunno just a hunch. I rarely went out in public with FW as above he liked a lonely old maid at home but when we did go out he would often do or say something subtle so I didn’t get too big for my boots eg make a comment about my appearance such as one time when i loaded the kids into the car including newborn he said he could have gotten one of the more attractive mothers we had just had dinner with if he had been better looking like her husband but as it was he had to settle with me – this is a guy that chased after me for years. I looked at photos from that event and despite just giving birth I looked an 8/10 and he was a 3. Always so jealous, but kept it hidden and had me fooled
Wait, you’re a fan of public devaluation too? Twinsies!
Trashing your confidence and emotionally rattling you before social outings is equivalent to spraying you with skunk scent in the hopes your downcast mood and traumatized social withdrawal might chase away any better alternative to him. Hello “masked dependency.” And hello “projected fears of being cheated on and replaced.”
I’ve also done double takes at photos taken at times I was “devalued” in that way and realized I didn’t look anything like how I was made to feel.
Grim. Just grim. We should have all left at the first devaluation.
Go no contact and stay that way.
You will regain your dignity and have the opportunity to fill your time with activities which are good for you.
Now is the time to pursue self care and independence.
I also wonder if much of the LW’s distress is the simple fact that she wants an exclusive relationship and he does not.
He’s an immature creep, but she could have exercised her power to leave the first time. The dynamics are similar to abuse and the pain is present, but it seems more like a dating mismatch.
Lost in the Cycle,
Your Cheater is using dating apps to whip you into a frenzy of “pick me dancing” and to punish you whenever he feels like it. He knows exactly what effect that his behaviour is having on you ….. and yet he keeps doing it. Release him back into the wild and let someone else have him; he is not worthy of (or healthy for) you.
CL is absolutely right when she says that you need to go “No contact”; the best way to protect yourself from his BS is by putting distance between you.
LFTT
You want this “relationship” to work.
I want to build a Ferrari out of cars from the salvage yard.
Neither of us is going to be successful.
A flotilla of ships on fire with red flags slapping you in the face, 24/7/365 is not working.
Handling this situation on your own is not working. I strongly suggest seeking qualified help.
Please get in contact with a good therapist instead of him, and I’d also recommend assistance from your closest domestic violence advocacy organization.
In order to heal, you need to first stop drinking the poison. That means staying away from him and waiting out the withdrawal symptoms.
Keep coming here and read.
❤️
“Please get in contact with a good therapist instead of him, and I’d also recommend assistance from your closest domestic violence advocacy organization.” I wouldn’t recommend either, my outcomes were abysmal (the domestic violence advocacy organization multiplied the PTSD by 100 as did the therapist. The domestic violence organization may also just think that her situation ain’t that bad – she isn’t being pimped out, beaten to a pulp, raped etc. If she is unlucky the therapist will advice non-monogamy or pity the FW or Esther Perel her or… that happened to a friend of mine, hit on her. It just isn’t possible to know who a ‘good’ therapist is. The only therapist a friend of mine ever recommended to me was the worst). But I love the Ferrari and flotilla of ships on fire images!
“In order to heal, you need to first stop drinking the poison. That means staying away from him and waiting out the withdrawal symptoms.” So true – I don’t know what can help with the withdrawal symptoms though. Going on a trip around the world perhaps? Like any kind of huge distracting personal project?
I made those suggestions because they are what worked extremely well for me, and still do, years later.
My local domestic violence prevention organization teaches that affairs are abuse.
http://centerfordomesticpeace.org/sites/default/files/Power%20&%20Control%20Wheel.pdf
I am sorry about your experiences. There are other experiences besides the one you had. In my case, I had to interview a number of people over a long period of time before I found a good qualified competent fit.
It’s clear from her letter that on her own she is staying stuck and needs help getting free, as most do.
Are you suggesting she not seek help? If so, what is your proposed alternative?
I think “expect the best, prepare for the worst” is a good credo in trying to find professional support. It’s always good to give survivors a heads up that they might run into some duds and will need to be selective but that’s no reason not to keep trying to find decent therapists or support resources. I got a great therapist on the second try by going through a (surprise) state database. Radical feminist, head of her department, versed in trauma and funny as hell. The first one I tried was a joke and a creep but since I knew from experience and just basic math that better had to exist it wasn’t that discouraging. I simply never went back after the first session and cast my net again.
She is already seeking help! From us. From Tracy. Yes, of course there are other experiences besides mine – but we don’t call it RIC because it’s so darn helpful. 😉 What I am saying is this: she shouldn’t do anything that may get her in unsafe hands. She’s too vulnerable for that. Actually, my local domestic violence shelter wouldn’t even agree to see her – cause she isn’t experiencing physical or financial violence and she thinks there is no actual affair. I would be extremely surprised if any shelters have the time to take care of all the girlfriends of men who are partnered but have an online dating profile. On tinder alone half of all users are partnered or married (and tinder has an over 80% male user base).
Regarding therapy though: the issue isn’t that she doesn’t know that this is abuse. She does – rationally. But she is emotionally stuck, addicted to the oxytocin and can’t stand being alone and mentions how much she misses him asking for how her day went etc. A therapist can’t tell her anything different than what she already knows. She knows that this is abuse! And a therapist will cost money. What I would suggest to her is move far away, go cold turkey and no contact. If she wants to start online dating herself (or purely cycling through pictures of guys without contacting them). She should do anything to distract her. I suggested travelling (if a move is too expensive/impossible). Maybe a trip abroad, but she does’t mention whether that would be possible finance-wise.
“When I try to leave, the guilt is overwhelming. I imagine him as helpless and sad, crying in his apartment. I feel like a monster for “hurting him,” even though he’s the one who’s hurt me time and time again. And I feel guilty for not being able to fix him or save the relationship.”
I bet he thinks the same as he is cruising the apps, but most likely, he is probably thinking about the next sucker he is going to line up. Leave, tell him you deserve better than a lying, cheating, insecure man.
In college, I dated a man who attempted suicide when I broke up with him. I married him so he wouldn’t be “hurt” or kill himself. Two years later, he tried to kill me. This FW might not be a threat to LW’s body, but he’s killing her heart and her confidence. T
I got a couple suicide threats in the course of workplace sexual harassment campaigns. Funny that they’re still alive. I can’t help wondering if the world would be a better place if the threats weren’t just emotional blackmail tactics.
This!
Yup, I dated an abuser just like this guy in college. He tortured me in the exact same way for years until I finally escaped. He was dating a new victim within weeks and treated her like a doormat, just like he treated me. We were interchangeable to him.
This is how sociopaths think. People are objects to them, things of use, nothing more.
I struggled with the “but I hurt him” feelings too. Ultimately, I realized that his sadness and grief weren’t my fault. He had shattered our family, and that was indeed an unfortunate thing, but I hadn’t shattered our family, he did. And these types most certainly begin looking for the next target while supposedly feeling sad.
One time my therapist pointed out that if STBX was sad, his grief wasn’t in the right place. There was probably an aspect of it that was focused on the affront he felt instead of fully grieving the end of the marriage and all of that meant. Both she and my attorney suggested that if he gave me an easy, smooth divorce, that would speak well of his true motivations, but it would likely be a mess, and it was. Despite several decades together, I didn’t mean anything to him in the end. I was a bug to be squashed.
I doubt he feels any guilt for not being able to fix the relationship. But yes, he will be happy about the carousel of potential next suckers.
Sad sausage= covert narc.
Biggest victim in the room.
Timid forrest creature.
And we think WE are their savior who will rescue them and nurse the baby bird back to health? I drank that kool aid for years. Shows MY pathology that I thought I could rescue him. I no get why people say we need to change ourselves, not them. It took a long time for me to ask if it was acceptable to me. Another person never would have put up with the shenanigans. Thats on me.
Sure, like my mom who is a covert narc (what is the female version of a “sad sausage”? A “sad oyster”?) But I understood the letter writer as “I’m imagining him all sad” (she uses the word “imagine”), not him actually playing all sad. That’s why I thought “it’s all projection”.
“Another person never would have put up with the shenanigans.” I don’t know whether that’s on you – or on society. Us women are given the koolaid from birth that we can rescue them (mind you: I have seen that happen so often – but it wasn’t “rescue them from cheating”. I know several men who I envy because instead of tearing them down when they were… objectively losers… but in no way mean and definitely not cheating, their girlfriends now wives built them into something extremely successful. Man, I want a wife like that! Instead all men I’ve ever been entangled with and even those that just were in my life in other completely non-romantic capacities, like my current landlord, tried to tear me down or other women. My current landlord seriously is jealous of where I went to university. Facepalm!) And then there’s the whole “the bar for men is so low it’s a tavern in Hades” thing. If I think about it: I always wanted what my female friends did for their guys, with one sole exception (in my life!) never what how the men behaved towards the women.
IT ONLY GETS WORSE THEN HORRIBLE, THEN DISASTROUS. Please believe me. You’ve wasted too much time already. ESCAPE WHILE YOU CAN.
Oh another good line is I didn’t feel your love..so he had to get massages and do coworkers…that was his taking care of himself….that one got me..
Oh, yikes. The twisted world of FW self-exculpation!
Yeah, that threat of “If you do something I don’t like I’ll get another girlfriend” is just a demand to dance harder and focus on your own behavior instead of his. Together with his blameshifting, minimizing, and denial you have the outlines of an abusive relationship. And it isn’t going to change, because by now you’ve shown him, by returning, over and over, that there are zero consequences for his behavior.
Your only chance for a healthy relationship is to leave him, go no contact, and do the work on yourself to fix your picker so you don’t end up in another unequal and unhealthy relationship.
Make a pact with a friend that you can use her like an AA buddy and call her when you feel like you’re going to contact him. And decide what activities you can engage in to contest the urge: work out, clean, take a walk.
I doubt that will be the case in this relationship (possible though, we don’t know either way), but just in general: it isn’t the picker that’s broken for some of us. It is that we are not attractive to anyone as a partner instead of a chump. (Also why so many older straight women end up in romance scams – the normal, sane dating market just isn’t there for them and over 70 also large disparity in survival). I mean “picking” is about demand. But relationships (any relationship: be that dating, friendships or work) are demand AND supply. If the supply is not there, then your picker may be 100% fine – it’s just that the choice is either “be alone” (which depending on the level of poverty and social isolation may be excruciating) or be with a FW. (My aunt chose the FW several times and preferrred it. She was delusional and managed to black out that she was being used. I have given anyone who was ever interested in me a chance – but they all just wanted to temporarily abuse me. I can’t change my picker in any way. Only accept to be alone.)
Yup. I second all of the advice here. My first partner used to “even the score” with me after an argument by sneaking off to see his ex-girlfriend. One of his catchphrases was “nice guys finish last” (I am allergic to those words). Leaving him was probably the smartest move I’ve ever made. If we had stayed together, cheating would have been one of the more innocuous forms of abuse I would have been in for, and you can expect the same. Do yourself a huge favor and cut him off completely. No contact is the way forward.
Childless cat lady here who really appreciates Chump Lady’s topical remarks on the American Dark Age.
Did your ex mean that with self-awareness in the sense of “I finish first because I’m not a nice guy” or did he do the sex/oxytocin as psychopath bonding/glue thing to keep abusing you?
Hi Disfor. He meant “I’m one of the nice guys” — until I began to challenge him, and then it was “Don’t try to play hardball with me. You’ll lose.” Of course, most people thought he was wonderful.
Sex/oxytocin didn’t come into it. I never much liked sex with him and he was not affectionate (which was what I was used to, so it wasn’t the big red flag it should have been). I should never have been in that relationship (I was barely 18 when I met him), and when I finally left I was determined not to repeat the mistakes. Later I made different mistakes, but I’ve never made them in sexual thrall to anyone.
There are some very long posts on this topic that I want to spend some time with, and your long one is one of them.
Yeah, run away from this one, LC. You shouldn’t even be able to drive with the barrage of red flags pummeling you on the highway. This guy is trash!!
Get angry and get out.
He will continue to use your empathy and love as a weapon against you. You are allowing him access to do just that.
He is your priority, you think of keeping him safe, loved and cared for, how can you make yourself better for him, over ANY self protection and concern. He does not do the same for you!
You cannot save him, but he will think nothing of using you to save himself.
Let him go.
Once the devaluing begins in a relationship and the disrespect, it doesn’t turn around from there. It will only spiral into unimaginable locations you don’t even want to know about. ( been there, done that!)🥴
You are looking at the tiniest little bread crumbs he lobs in your direction and elevating them to represent great love for you. It is all a ruse and a lie to get control of you.
Don’t let this damaged man make you believe that his trolling on-line activities are because of you. You made him do it!!
That is deep MF manipulation, and gas lighting at its finest and not an ounce of truth anywhere.
You have more than enough information on this character this second to unceremoniously dump his manipulating game playing ass out the door.
You will grieve the loss of the vision you imagined with him because you are a loving, caring and good person. He will not do the same.
Someday, you will be able to look back on this relationship with a new set of lenses. You will have deep gratitude for dodging a life changing bullet that was pointed at you.
Keep reading CL, you will find it to be remarkably healing and transformative as you grieve and move on to a much healthier and solid life. One you deserve.
Best wishes on your difficult journey out. It is 1000% the best of all options for you.
“You cannot save him, but he will think nothing of using you to save himself.” Unless you mean that in a religious way (do you?), he doesn’t need to be saved. I mean: saved from what? His very effective manipulation skills that get him exactly what he wants?! He’d laugh in your face: “Don’t threaten me with a good time!”
We all have shattered dreams, it comes with life, but we can dream up new ones to take their place. Better healthier dreams
I don’t know about that. All my dreams have been shattered, even the tiny ones. If you can call “survival” a dream, then that’s it.
For me, ..being without a cheater for the first time in my life ….with 2 cheaters under my belt, both with extended basements..and 45 years of lies…my being completely alone, is a dream come true considering my life path.
Granted you have to scrape some dreams together, but I am living my best life without being of use to a user and two liars. My body is healing and my mind is getting there. I could agree it feels more like a nightmare,but the peace I have Inside is worth waking up for. Just my opinion. Disfor, I appreciate your take on it though, yes I do.
Yeah, I can’t imagine. I find it hard to say what’s worse. In certain circumstances from a financial standpoint: the marriages to an abuser (my mom is much better off financially than she would have been without my dad). Of course not in cases of financial abuse. I wonder whether you lived what I lived in an extremely extended version. With longer love-bombing too. Like I just read an article by a woman who cheats on her husband all the time. She wrote that she was faithful for 10 years when the kids were small. Like that? Like “the rest was awful, but the 10 years were great”? Or everything was awful and that for decades? With love-bombing thrown in? The man who abused me had some great highs with his fiancée (that I didn’t know of) and his longterm partner before that. They had huge highs as a couple. I didn’t get anything like that. But in the end, he isn’t attracted to his fiancée either absurdly. Like he is actually physically not attracted to her. (Not sure whether you know the Norwegian princess and her American gay HIV positive scam artist abuser husband. My FW is like THAT.)
Oh, darlin’….Lost in the Cycle is a good name for you. Because you need to understand what the “Cycle” is–it’s the cycle of abuse. This asshole is abusing you. This is emotional abuse. You are a victim of abuse. You need to get it into your head that this is not just some kind of emotional rollercoaster, this is the cycle of abuse. (Please google that phrase)
Abusers only get worse as they get older. If you stay with him the abuse WILL get worse. You cannot fix him. You can never, ever please him. My abusive ex never actually hit me. But some abusers (mostly men) can go from never hitting straight to murder.
Thank goodness you are not currently living with him. Now block him on your phone and your email. Go absolutely no contact. It will be hell for the first month. He will ramp up his attempts to contact you. But he’ll also be sleeping with other women at the same time. Because I’m sure he has “needs.” The second month will be easier if you actually complete a month with no contact.
If you manage to go six months with no contact you will be happier and healthier. You will wonder what the hell was wrong with you that you put up with that kind of shit from that awful loser. Don’t me be. Don’t spend 25 years/5 kids with an awful, abusive loser.
This is the perfect response.
I spent a lot of time feeling like this Letter Writer (LW). Too much time.
If there was anything that I learned that I wish I could bottle up and hand out to others who need it, it’s what Elizabeth says above.
Please actually take the time to google “cycle of abuse”.
I was in it with my FW for decades. Not physical abuse, but mental, emotional and verbal. I often refer to him here as having a Jekyl and Hyde vibe. But I was living the cycle of abuse over and over for years. It was not constant, much like Jekyl and Hyde, he cycled through being great, and being awful.
Live with that long enough and it starts to seem normal to be the person just chasing down that NICE side. Walking on eggshells, trying to keep him on the happy side. Thinking that you have the ability to keep it at bay.
And one day he pushed it a bit far. We are separated. He spent 2 days just sending me the most vile and angry texts. He had done that before, but these were just worse than anything prior. One of our kids had stopped speaking to him and he blamed me, hence the added anger. He then threatened suicide. I thought he was serious and it was terrifying on several.levels.
As this threat came on the tail end of days of scary angry hate-filled texts, I was already at my wits end and this suicide threat just scared the hell out of me. I had the police do a wellness check. (he was fine) The next day a friend of mine said “you need to get out of this, this is abuse,he just keeps cycling through the same thing over and over, you go a week with things seeming fine, only to have him launch into two days of angry texts, then he flips right back to nice as if it never happened. It will never end unless YOU end it”
I don’t know what happened that day, but a flip just switched and I recognized that the only way out of that pattern was to GET OUT. I had spent 2 decades trying to control the situation and get to a place where he only showed Jekyl, not Hyde. It was a fruitless endeavor.
I googled “cycle of abuse” and there in black and white was my life. I went almost fully no contact that day. (Can’t go full No Contact because of the kids) I haven’t looked back. As we are still in some contact, he does still cycle. But it is one sided. I do not engage, at all. I discuss the kids with him, that’s it. It I could fully block him, this would be bliss.
I don’t know why that day it all clicked. It often feels like divine intervention because it was so sudden and so fully enlightening. But I wish I could give that gift to everyone in your shoes, LW, because it’s such a hard place to get to, but it truly is the only place to go.
He won’t change. It’s not you. Don’t waste any more time. I know it is SO MUCH easier said than done, I have a great therapist and I probably wouldn’t have gotten there without her. But if there was any way I could just instill that knowledge in you, I would. I hate to think of anyone else sticking around as long as I did, And yes, it only got worse and worse. And that should have been soobvious but when you are IN it it hits different.
I second every word Elizabeth Lee has said. There is only way out of this cycle, and she has described it perfectly.
I third it 😉
Please follow the advice you’ve been given here by CL and our fellow Chumps, it’s all good. I don’t know how old you are, but I’m guessing you’re young. Don’t waste years on this asshole. Walk away now, while you still have a future ahead of you. What you don’t want is to be me (and so many others here) who have wasted decades on their FW. Waiting for them to change. Being cheated on, belittled, lied to, gaslit and abused for most of our entire adulthood. I wasted over 30 years on mine. Walk away now. Go no contact. Believe that you are worth more because you are. This guy is a piece of shit, but you won’t be able to see that until you get far far away and have the benefit of hindsight. Leave him. Now. Don’t even tell him. Just get out and go no contact. We all promise that you’ll start to feel better with time and distance. We’re here for you.
“This guy is a piece of shit, but you won’t be able to see that until you get far far away and have the benefit of hindsight.” So true! Wow, 30 years. I was so broken after much much much less than that! You are definitely mighty!
What your letter tells me is that you don’t understand how Dark Triad men work. You are absolutely clueless regarding their methods – makes you a great chump. You don’t know that what he is doing (the getting on dating apps thing) is called “dread” and “triangulation”. It’s a common technique to get a woman addicted and her self-esteem destroyed in order to control her better. It’s actually taught by pick up artists (and is also featured in detail in many books on Dark Triad – narcs, psychopaths). And although he doesn’t show it to you, he knows by now that you’ll find out cause you two have been doing this dance for quite a while. You also don’t know that he hasn’t acted on it – I would be very surprised if he hadn’t.
As for the rest: I understand you. I don’t know you and can’t say what your situation is, but in my case: I am unlovable. What I mean by that: my disability means that no one has ever had real romantic interest in me, only FWs who wish to abuse me for a while (usually even for the same reason – they need the constant kibbles and they know that I am unattractive and desperate. I don’t mean “unattractive” looks-wise btw, although I am that too now because I am too old for straight men). And there is absolutely nothing appealing about being single – zilch. It isn’t appealing to be sick and have noone take care of you. It isn’t appealing to live without sex and cuddles. It isn’t appealing to have no sounding board. It isn’t appealing to have to have to do all activities alone (my few friends have all disappeared into their marriages with kids). It isn’t appealing to in some restaurants not ever getting a table at all and in others to always be placed next to the toilet. Worst of all: it isn’t appealing to know that my life expectancy is radically reduced because I am lonely. It isn’t appealing to be facing homelessness because the rental market where I live has collapsed and I will never be able to afford a mortgage on my own. (Homelessness is not an abstract thing for me – it is a likely outcome.) So no, what is not clear to many non-disabled feminists with better income (or who received money after a divorce and saved a whole lot due to pay half the rent/mortgage, not all the rent/mortgage) and even less those who have not been single for years or ever, is that for some of us being cat ladies is indeed excrutiatingly bleak and a life and death thing because our social safety net is almost non-existant. If that is what you are facing and you decide to stay, know that your self-esteem will slowly be destroyed, like you say it already is. You can choose that if you prefer all the upsides that a relationship with a FW offers. If you are not like me “unlovable” on the normal dating market, then you have the absolute imperative to get out! And look for someone who is not a FW (as Tracy pointed out though: many straight women won’t be able to find that; the dating market for us is just too bad and men’s sociosexuality too high, too many rightwing men who are looking for a maid etc). If you are in my situation or in a similar situation, then your choice is between shit and shit. I can’t give you any advice and what you should do in that case. In my own, it would not have been possible to stay (I was only ever a transitional abuse victim and he was not attracted to me, as he is mostly autoerotic). Had it been possible, then I would have slowly over years lost all sense of self, gone mad from all the abuse, had many fun times with others and him (the highs, his flying monkeys) and I would have probably had a mortgage and the benefits of that, but would have stayed. Your situation doesn’t sound like that however – you mentioned that you’ve moved out many times. The crucial information that is missing to me is: what happened when you tried to date someone else yourself? A former (female) friend of mine always jumped from relationship to relationship prior to her marriage. She has now been married for 12 years to her husband. She hated every day of alone time. She was not abusive to any of the men she was with. Maybe you’re like that? Maybe you need to do this two step program: 1) finally understand how Dark Triad men operate (READ books, listen podcasts, watch tiktoks etc), (And yes, no contact – and definitely no sex and no cuddles to detox from the oxytocin.) 2) try to find a new relationship.
PS: “When I try to leave, the guilt is overwhelming. I imagine him as helpless and sad, crying in his apartment.” This one is just bizarre. What happens when you tell yourself: “he is currently so damn happy as he sexting with new chumps with his exact kink/bigger boobs/better cooking skills/extremely submissive/10 years younger than me and a model on tinder/hinge/bumble/happn and I am being an absolute chump projecting my current sadness and attachment onto someone who can’t even bond in the same way as normal sane chumps like I can”? I mean: stop projecting, woman! (Again: your projection is enabled by your lack of knowledge on how Dark Triad men really operate. Or your rather: by your lack of actual acceptance of it – you mention that you’ve read “Leave a cheater, gain a live”, but apparently you don’t actually accept the kibbles thing, entitlement, mask, lack of bonding, seeing people only as tools to be used and abused. How can you rationally and emotionally accept it?)
When I was trying to make sense of my mess, a friend of mine asked me a very valid question, “So if your daughter was in a relationship like this, would you say that it is a healthy, good relationship?” Ah, no.
Ultimately, I decided that anyone with such disordered, nasty behaviors didn’t deserve to be close to me. Since my divorce, I am very, very picky about my close relationships and how I spend my time, and that’s good.
This is abuse, and abusers don’t change. Don’t waste your time, and don’t listen to anecdotal stories about one person’s abusive shithead partner who supposedly did improve. Those instances are so rare, like winning a lottery ticket, that they’re basically worthless. You don’t bet your whole retirement on a lotto ticket, right? That would be crazy.
I dated a guy JUST like this in college. He did ALL the things you describe: the emotional cheating, the dread game, the triangulation, all of it. He was always so so sorry… until the next act of cruelty.
Know where believing his false promises got me? I lost the next ten years to that piece of shit. He never changed. I escaped, and he married the next victim. He treated her even worse.
Please recognize that everything you’ve described is abuse, and there’s nothing here worth saving. This guy is a sociopath who enjoys torturing you.
I’m going to bet you aren’t telling people how he’s treating you, because you feel compelled to keep his secrets. Please reach out to people you trust and start telling them the truth about what he’s doing to you, and start formulating an exit plan.
He will never change. Marriage won’t fix this, children (god forbid) won’t fix this. He’s a horrible person and that’s just who he is. You need to get away from this sociopath before he destroys you. Do it now, don’t let him waste the next 10 or 20 years of your life.
Just get out! This is so hard for me to understand. Before anything bad ever happened for me, I was already trapped with a kid. I had to face breaking up my child’s family.
Why is it so impossible to dump a shitty boyfriend? What does he have on you? I can’t understand I’m sorry. Just stop going back for more abuse.
It’s because she isn’t “trapped” by these same practical things that trapped you. Her traps are emotional. Mine was once just a shitty red-flag covered boyfriend. I could have dumped him with very little fuss early on as we didn’t even live together. But he was on his best behaviour then. He got worse once we lived together, got married, bought a home, had kids. Before that, I didn’t leave because I loved him and as sometimes he was awesome, I was always chasing more of the awesome. It’s disorienting.
If you are in that cycle of abuse,you dont exactly think straight.
Dear Lost in the Cycle:
You’re not so lost if you recognize this is a cycle– as in “cycle of abuse.” And you might feel less lost if you understood that you didn’t wander on your own into this state of paralysis but were deliberately, systematically frog-boiled and psychically hog-tied by someone who probably learned his controlling trade (and all the rationales for it) from five or so previous generations of abusers who practiced coercive control until it was polished into a nearly perfect system of entrapment.
In other words, this could have happened to anyone and has nothing to do with anything fundamentally “wrong” with you. But precisely because it can happen to anyone, it’s all the more reason to crank up your defenses and radar to reduce any chance of mistaking a wolf for a sheep again. And the only way you can heal will be to call a spade a spade– i.e., call abuse what it is. At the very least that can help you exonerate yourself for reacting to abuse in understandable ways rather than buying the myth that your some kind of equal instigator (read this for starters: https://dremmakatz.substack.com/p/shes-not-innocent-either-actually?publication_id=1199193&post_id=153673865&isFreemail=true&r=381mk5&triedRedirect=true).
You’ve probably noticed that one of the main premises of Chump Lady and members of this forum is that cheating is abuse. You’ve probably also noticed that this is a politically-fraught concept that gets a lot of flak from cheating apologists, some of whom have a lot of influence in the media and often try to dress it in either sciency-sounding jargon or in progressive “groovy” drag.
Consider that to be another thing that probably helped entrap you in this cycle– because media cheating apologists make their whitewashing bs sound so intimidatingly cutting edge and factual. But as a past advocate for survivors of domestic abuse who had to gain at least functional literacy in social science and read scary stacks of material on domestic violence, coercive control (once known simply as “emotional abuse”), victimology and forensic psych as part of training, I think the facts are all clearly on CL’s side and the apologists come off like psychobabble Java man with bones in their hair, swinging little clubs and speaking in grunts. The progressive drag is just to disguise the fact they’re trying to set the definition of abuse back to the stone ages.
Some of what I learned as an advocate wasn’t even in the literature yet but was just there to be seen by anyone in the trenches. For one, virtually all batterers cheat one way or another and, the more intensely abusive they are, the more they tend to cheat and vice-versa. Though this doesn’t mean all cheaters are violent (though give ’em time), it did create an impression that there’s an intrinsic connection between the two things which science is only beginning to catch up to some 20 years later. But most of the advancements are piecemeal because, again, this has always been a politically fraught issue and exploration of fraught concept that are threatening to dah patriarchy (broligopoly) tend to get less institutional funding.
But at least now there’s a small but interesting study which suggests that enforcement of one-sided monogamy may be one of the major drivers of domestic violence: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3583221/
And there are statistics showing that married battered women have far higher rates of STD infection: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1877575617300654 ; https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3856434/#R2
Even if the correlation isn’t stated in all conclusions, the studies strongly point to an association between violence and infidelity. All the same, the studies aren’t perfect and seem to be almost consciously skirting around obvious issues or avoided asking very obvious questions that could lead clinicians, legal authorities, bystanders and survivors of emotional abuse alike to believe the results didn’t apply to the latter.
First off, the first two– the Bolivian study on DV and infidelity and the study of DV and STDs from Iran– were performed in cultures that have little grasp of much less legislation against coercive control. Since, statistically, anywhere you find DV you’ll find umpty-times more coercive control (most abusers operate on a beat-by-need basis and usually first resort to less athletic and less legally risky modes of control), researchers didn’t even measure correlations between STDs and emotional abuse. The Iranian STD study doesn’t even stress (or mention?) the most obvious potential cause of married battered women developing STDs– adultery– and instead focuses on victimized women’s lack of agency in demanding condom use (as if condom use is even viewed as necessary by most married people. Only 10-20% of married women even use them and, when they do, partners may interpret this as a mark of or accusation of infidelity: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9832812/). The last study bases a lot of its premises on the debunked Straus Conflict Tactic Scale which notoriously overestimates female instigation of intimate partner violence (also by ignoring coercive control).
Also the Bolivian study may have grossly screwed up the order of events (“misapplied contingency”– a big sin in social science) by only recording overt violence in association with cheating if, in fact, domestic abuse (in subviolent forms) preceded the cheating or “mate retention” behaviors of victims. This seems like a strange oversight considering the mountain of current evidence that most abuse victims report that it’s the emotional coercion and control that’s the most paralyzing and devastating aspect of abuse beyond even assault. So rather than the chain of events reported by authors, which was 1) Abusers engage in cheating (and, we are led to assume, no other forms of mistreatment); 2) Mate retention (jealous) efforts by victims; 3) Abuser commits violent assault to thwart mate retention efforts, the chain of events could have been more similar to the cycle that many survivors report if coercive control had been considered:
1) Tension building behavior by abusers (often because they’re thinking about cheating yet fear their partners doing the same and become paranoid, angry and blaming over their own projections); 2) Victims’ stressed reaction to unbearable tension building; 2) Triggered by victims’ understandably stressed reactions, abusers explode in rage and blame victims for it; 3) Victims try to defend themselves, maybe threaten to leave; 4) Abusers go all self-pitying sad sausage, feels “rejected/criticized/insecure”; 5) Abusers love bomb but simultaneously hedge bets against self-fulfilling fear of abandonment by hunting for plan B sexual supply; 6) Abusers become even more callous and emotionally abusive while cheating since they feel assured of having backup and “don’t need that bitch”; 7) Victims try to leave in protest against mistreatment; 8) Fearing abandonment even more, abusers go on a campaign to destroy victims’ security and self esteem and reduce chances they’ll escape and move on to form future relationships themselves; 9) Feeling afraid and entrapped, victims’ intuit that, if their main value to their abusers is as a sexual appliance, then the abuse could escalate even further once victims are sexually replaced and so begin to engage in “mate retention behavior” (i.e., marriage policing) in a fear-driven effort to prevent the escalation because they feel unable to escape (i.e., Stockholm syndrome). 10) Abusers use violence or engage in extreme coercive control (like threats of financial abandonment, threats of reputation-destroying smear campaigns, threatening to harm others or take children away, etc.) to enforce one-sided monogamy.
Or something like that. So just by including instances of coercive control, I think the second speculative chain of events– give or take intensity of abuse or swapping around the order of events– could tell a much different story than authors’ rather simplistic version. The authors’ conclusion might even suggest that the real problem here is victims’ expectations of monogamy (so let’s embrace Esther Perel and all go poly!) and confrontational mate-guarding behaviors (bitches be jealous). Maybe authors had to go all the way to Bolivia to even find victims who didn’t report the emotionally abusive build-up around cheating because the culture doesn’t recognize those behaviors as abuse. Or maybe authors’ had to veil their intentions to show a correlation between abuse and infidelity because they wouldn’t have gotten funding otherwise. But the most dangerous thing that all the studies miss by negating coercive control and not asking the right questions is that the abuse that typically comes with cheating may very well be to ensure victims do not do in kind. It’s meant to paralyze, destroy agency and prevent victims from moving on to better partnerships.
So much for groovy poly arguments if cheaters are, in fact, rigidly, ferociously monogamous but just hypocritically so.
I hope the point I’m trying to make is clear by the above. Not just your fellow chumps but current science itself is arguing that you”re being abused, that it’s really bad, that the agenda is control your agency and independence and block you from a better future, that a your hopefully soon-to-be ex is a patent abuser and this means that any paralysis you’re experiencing, rather than being evidence of your intrinsic doormat status and “low self esteem”– is likely an unconscious survival response (Stockholm syndrome) to a rather well-founded suspicion that the abuse could get worse if you attempted to escape.
Because if this is how he is in the so-called honeymoon stage of a relationship, I can guarantee you it gets worse if you stay. It could also spike if you leave but if you protect yourself and get free, that will be the end of it. And abuse is like a roulette wheel. There’s no way to predict which lovely number it might spin to. Take your pick from the experiences of other chumps: Giving you a dangerous STD when you’re pregnant and causing fetal injury or pregnancy loss? Financially abusing you and your children? Trading you in during a cancer scare? Pulling the plug if you go into a coma? Breaking your jaw? Plotting with a side piece to have you bumped off to get the insurance? Or, if the extreme cases don’t seem possible (yet), how about just garden-variety abusive process of grinding down your self esteem day in and day out until you’re socially isolated, can’t work and develop stress-induced chronic illness or cancer? Or when you finally have had enough and try to leave, weaponizing the court to take custody of your children and terrorizing you in general?
Round and round she goes and where she stops, nobody knows. But one thing is guaranteed with abusers– all the options suck. And please forget about FOMO. It’s laughable. If on the slim unicorn chance this guy ever redeems himself, he’d have to come clean and tell any future dating prospect all about how he treated you, how you never deserved it, how it was all his doing because real redemption is impossible without perfect transparency and even then there’s no guarantee. Anger management and domestic abuser “rehabilitation” programs are packed with individuals who make full weeping disclosures about their behavior within intimate relationships only to repeat everything they confessed to again and again.
And what are the chances he’ll ever come clean with future partners considering how many light years he is away from facing and owning what he’s doing now? Close to zero. That’s actually the official statistic for recidivism for domestic abusers: 98.5%. That means 1.5% might change, though that’s only with therapy and prison time. But I wouldn’t even trust the statistic since it’s 30 years old and only measured recidivism for violence, not coercive control. And here’s the thing– that “prison time” bit is really important because it shows that receiving severe consequences is about the only tiny chance these types will alter their behavior. What this also means is that, if an abuser is “only” coercively controlling and doesn’t live in the UK where this can be criminally punished, chances are they’ll never change because there’s no stiff incentive to.
All a long way of saying you’re not missing out on anything. He will do the same to every partner and, as most abusers do, his own future children if anyone’s unfortunate enough to breed with him. That is, unless he hooks up with a bigger shark than himself and they mutually destroy each other and their children as a team.
As far as the fear that you’ll never love again or that all men are creeps or will reject you because you develop knowledge and good defenses, chalk it up to the nihilistic brainwashing of your abuser. That’s his creepy world view and you’ve merely been temporarily infected with it. There are many men on this forum who can demonstrate that non-abusers exist. And furthermore, good men care about the same things because they sometimes get preyed on.
You’re already using the right term for what you’re enduring– “cycle.” Just complete the phrase (“of abuse”) and you’ve got this. From there I would recommend grabbing hold of that thread of thought and pulling it as hard as you can until you’ve given yourself an unofficial PhD in domestic abuse. If, as they say, the truth sets you free then it follows that lies do the reverse so the first challenge at hand is to rip out any indoctrination and replace it with better information. Read everything you can on coercive control and domestic violence and pretty soon you’ll figure out that it’s no exaggeration to say you’re an abuse survivor and deserve an equivalent level of support. If you seek therapy, make sure the therapist is versed in coercive control, trauma and abuse and isn’t a victim-blaming caveman (or woman).
I wish you strength and peace and I hope you keep coming back to this forum any time you need to reboot your resolve.
Check out this article: https://www.wellesu.com/10.1080/14681994.2019.1577961
“The aftershocks of infidelity: a review of infidelity-based attachment trauma”
GOSH! Only men could write such shite: “Since rate of wife abuse is highest at younger ages, violence may be used by husbands to both prevent future cuckoldry and punish women’s infidelity at its peak.” Actually that article you linked is a strong argument that with the exception of those who post here, no good men exist – cause the authors are utter misogynist jerks. Anthropologists as incels, wannabe Andrew Tates, fancy that! “men’s mate retention effort minimizes risk of cuckoldry, it is also some what counterintuitive. All else equal one might expect men actively engaging in mate retention tactics to be more effective at restricting women’s infidelity.” Okay, I can’t. This is misogyny and projection of male sociosexuality onto women under the guise of scholarship. Have you read “The Case against the Sexual Revolution”? I think you’d love the first half (and ragestroke through the second half, like I did). Or I also recommend “Rethinking Sex”.
As for the dating pool: this may be (no idea what Holly’s age is) an age thing as well – situationships and sidechicks and pressure to agree to polyamory/open relationships are pretty much the norm in some age groups and places. Polyamory makes up over 40% of folks in online dating in all younger age groups where I live. The dating pool is a puddle.
Just feel the need to say that I don’t believe that “no good men exist.” I also don’t find that the dating pool is that bad, relative to age or anything else. It doesn’t help me to believe the worst.
My apologies, but one more thing: I am so “Tuesday” (and have other worries) that I can also appreciate the ways in which Dark Triad men, while undateable (and unbefriendable as well – nor are they good bosses or colleagues) are “superior”… and that is their judgment of the differences of men and women as well as understanding what the person in front of them needs and wants (women have been socialized to know and intuit this – Dark Triad men are as good in this, but use it purely for their own gain and to abuse and control others). My FW is autoerotic and other than that prefers men. Why doesn’t he date men? He was actually quite open about that part: women are more caring and giving and cheat less statistically. I still love and recommend the study on psychopathic men having much higher levels of empathy – cognitive empathy that is. They have no emotional empathy. (Autistic folks like me are the opposite: lowered cognitive empathy and much heightened emotional empathy.) Which is what makes psychopaths so attractive at first plus this cognitive empathy also extends to their ability to see women as sexual actors and thus themselves as sex objects, so they take greater care of their appearance too. In order to get a “sane” man, women need to choose men with lower cognitive empathy who look worse and who still statistically watch porn, where I live is likely to see prostitutes (fully legal and there are so many visits to prostitutes that each man on average “sees” a prostitute seven times a year, which of course isn’t the case – some never, others much more often than 7 times), hate women who earn more than them and are more likely to be rightwing and would most likely exchange me for a younger model in a few years. How unappealing is that? So, I’m noping out of men altogether. (The women’s dating scene is so small that I’m pretty certain I’ll just stay alone.)
PS: Good for you, if your dating experiences are great! 🙂 Go get ’em, tiger!
It helps us to believe what is true. We all learned that the hard way. It what is true is the worst, so be it.
Well, hyperbole aside: from those men I have ever known (in my lifetime), I would deem maybe four on par with any average woman in terms of empathy, emotional labor etc. Two of those prefer men (not gay, but bisexual). You could marry me to any average woman and I’d be happy due to the amount of care. I have been sexually assaulted, beaten up etc by men. Many men. Sure, I have had psychopathic women in my life. But the numbers are simply not comparable in the least. Plus: I spend quite a lot of my online time in fora with many men posting. It’s a fascinating and devastating insight into their psyche. And as I said, into their lack of empathy. Men are homosocial – they rever other men, yes, also the straight ones. Way too many men hate women, but want to use their orifices. What is porn and prostitution other than a lack of empathy ultimately? When women here for example (but also in non-cheating focused online spaces that I am in) project onto men, they project care and feelings for others, which the men in question don’t really feel. When men project onto women? “The cock carousel”. It’s just not comparable.
But I have been hurt badly by some women. Worst probably a woman who pretended to be my friend for years for me to get her a job and then a few women close to retirement who hate younger women because they are… well, basically incel. Involuntarily sexless and alone. Two of them were divorced decades ago, two have never been in a relationship to my knowledge. Both projected onto me and also hated the younger women actually in happy relationships. Their sexual harassment was bizarre. Can you imagine as a woman being sexually harassed by a straight older woman who constantly makes disgusting remarks about a wild sex life she is projecting onto you?!
Hah, ‘ragestroke.” I think I’ve had a few.
“Anthropologists as incels, wannabe Andrew Tates, fancy that!”
After the things I’ve seen in my lifetime, I’m embarrassed I ever once believed that level of education actually conferred ethics. Big nope. But I’m much happier now that I’ve really and truly left the status cult and no longer base any expectations on class or certs or majority support.
Disfor’s advice, above, is really wise. Just one of the important things she mentions is the need to go no contact in order to steel yourself to “detox from the oxytocin” (one of the powerful hormones released through sex and cuddling).
Some horrible men (and doubtless horrible women too) are amazing in bed. And AT FIRST it seems impossible to break up with them and forgo the steady infusions of joy and apparent wholeness the sexual relationship brings. But these infusions are JUST LIKE A DRUG, and they literally play with your brain chemistry. This man is more or less your dope peddler, and he’s hoping you won’t catch on to the fact that he is trying to pull you deeper and deeper into a dependency you can’t get out of. And the sorry fact is that he gets pleasure from destroying your will to make your own sane choices.
Here’s what just a moment’s googling pulls up, regarding what’s known about brain chemistry and the cycle of abuse:
“Toxic partners and relationships can destroy an individual’s life for years on end . . . .
Several factors contribute to an individuals’ addiction’ to their abuser.
Velvet Hammer’s advice, above, is that you seek therapy in order to break the hold this abusive man has over you. I agree; you need all the support you can gather, in order to tolerate the painful feeling that living without this man leaves you in a “void.” That feeling will pass in time, if you just go through the withdrawal phase, step by step.
I’m really glad you wrote to CL. Hugs to you.
Love love love CL advice on this one. Talk about low expectations for a relationship. I have a girlfriend and she allows her husband to put the dog in the passenger seat and she sits in the back. He thinks this is normal and the frightening part is so does she. She is below the dog. I mean you can’t fall off the floor. Go NO CONTACT and stick with it if you have to have someone take away all of your devices and lock you in your bedroom, this guy will suck the life out of you. My sister spent 18 years trying to save her loser husband who she married at 55, she is an empty angry shell now. She left him for 2 years and got sucked back in because she didn’t go NO CONTACT, his last words this time were “you are going to go straight down hill” he couldn’t have been more wrong…..run like your life depends on it, because it does.
You do have some agency here. You can resist the temptation to return to him. It will be hard, but you must save yourself and do it. What might help will be facing the reality that he’s done more than just flirt on apps. Why are you believing that he hasn’t met any of those women and fucked them? He’s completely capable of it.
Yours is a trust that he sucks problem. You’re thinking he’s missing you and crying over you, but in actuality he is having a fuckfest and the reason he wants you back is because it’s boring not having somebody to cheat on. You can believe nothing he tells you. Internalize that, go NC and get on with your life.
YES Ohffs! Great points.
sing with me: We are never, ever, ever getting back together!
My FW did the same. Revenge cheating. Vindictive, they do it because they hate us. Yes HATE. They love to feel all powerful, they have something they can secretly lord over us. They hate their mothers too. The control and power they feel is gleeful. Once you recognize their gleefulness, it makes you sick.
You want to stay with him and waste your life away? Go for it! You are an adult. But get your tubes tied so you dont bring children into the mess you are making. My recommendation is dont get married. But if you want to tie yourself to him legally and make yourself vulnerable to him ruining you financially snd taking your best years from you, go for it. Again get yourself sterilized. NO kids! Why would you subject them to that life?
If you do want a family eventually. You need to get a good man, who will help you raise children.
Your choice, him or a family. Tick tock.
Hi! Thank you so much for answering my email and giving me advice. It’s been a tough year for me and I know I need to ripe off the band-aid and leave him for good.
Thank you all for your kind words and truthful advice!
Hello Holly! Good for you for writing to CL. Sending hugs!
Thank you <3 It has been a real struggle and I appreciate your support.
❤️
Hi Holly! We’ll cheer you on here, if you want us to. (And remind you to go/keep no contact.)
Let’s assume that there have been moments when this guy isn’t an utter jackass or you wouldn’t have dated him. Let’s also assume that there’s something in your background that has taught you to sign onto a fixer upper and never let go.
I think you need help to leave him. The easiest route is to tell your family (if they are reasonably healthy and supportive) and your best friend that you are going no contact and you want support to stay that way. You can call them when you have the urge to make contact.
Second easiest is to hang out here or on the Chump Lady subreddit or the Facebook page. Spend time with people who believe in “Leave a Cheater. Gain a Life” and who practice no contact. It helps to have people in your life who aren’t caught up in your addictive, unhealthy cycle and who will encourage you to chose healthy and kind people in your life rather than unhealthy and abusive.
Then there’s therapy. If you can find a therapist that is not all “Mmhhmm,” “Say more,” “Interesting,” you can start to unpack what is keeping you stuck.
You can help yourself by blocking all contact avenues–phone, text, email, apps, and social media. Put “Do not call, text or pick up” as his contact name. Change your routine to avoid any accidental-on-purpose contact.
And finally, go back to the time before you met this guy and figure out what you gave up to worship and do the pick-me dance at his alter. Were you an athlete? Were you learning something cool? Did you love certain music or movies that you gave up to please him? Did you want to go to Paris or on a trip across the US? Get your mind on you, on who you are and what you love and what you want for yourself. No contact. And work to gain a life.
Lost in the Cycle, you are in a cycle… of abuse. (Pore over the archives if you haven’t, and read about coercive control, narcissistic abuse, etc. You’ll be amazed at how unoriginal and predictable these FWs are, and it will help prevent you from buying into future manipulations.) It can be eye opening and empowering to name and confront the cycle. It also might help you begin to forgive yourself; it’s incredibly common for victims to feel trapped and to go back repeatedly.
I was in your situation for longer than I care to admit. I’ve been No Contact for four years now. It was the only way to break the cycle. Like you, I knew what I wanted and needed, but I could not for the life of me close the door for good, even though I came close many times. I eventually recognized the stress and uncertainty was killing me, so I faced the void. I decided I needed to be in control of my own life and the only way to do that was not to wait around for a fuckwit to pick me or to become a good person. Besides, I didn’t even want him. He was a lying, shallow, phony, sexist, abusive, cowardly loser: why would I want to be associated with a person like that? I need to trust and respect a partner. Period.
Also, get mad! Own your anger! But not by engaging with your ex, because that just keeps you trapped and it is beyond counterproductive. (Trust me.) Be strong and treat it/him like an addiction you are determined to quit. White knuckle it through those brutal early days (it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done), and then it really does get easier. Soon, like the chumps you read here, you’ll be absolutely disgusted by him and mortified that you kept him in your orbit so long. It takes longer to heal and rebuild, but No Contact and investing in your own life and safety is the first step. (I also made “He doesn’t give a shit about me” a mantra in my moments of vulnerability and loneliness to remind myself that he couldn’t and wouldn’t help make anything better. Always just worse.)
Your story has brought up some memories for me, so perhaps sharing them will offer you some insight into the dynamic:
When my ex got angry with me, he would go off and text (or email or call) one of the girls he was cheating on me with. Or go meet up with them, for all I know. I never even suspected this, but late in the “reconciliation” game, after I left the house to take some space because he was behaving like a monster, he texted and confessed this. His words and timing shocked me. When I essentially responded with a hurt WTF?, he was angry that I wasn’t appreciative of his honesty: “see, this is why I can’t be honest with you.” He wanted to punish and control me. He wanted to show me that if I stepped out of line, there were others waiting to take my place. Before any ddays, many years into his cheating but long before I had any suspicions, he told me as much one day when I drew a boundary: “There are plenty of women out there who’s kill to be in your place.” I actually laughed in his face and essentially responded, “What, be treated like garbage and taken for granted while investing wholeheartedly in you and your life, for free?” It’s sick. Near the very end, he would sulk off to his office and “play with” his guns when he was “mad at” me. I knew he was trying to intimidate me but I didn’t dare say anything because I knew he’d gaslight and get angry with me for accusing him of such a preposterous and monstrous thing. DARVO.
And as other chumps have commented, it only gets worse. Perel is a liar: cheating and abuse do not make relationships grow stronger. I kept going back and the psychological abuse became extreme, while physical abuse was subtly normalized until it escalated to a point I could no longer ignore. Oh and the cheating and cheater behaviors never stopped either.
((Hugs)), Lost. Make yourself central and draw inspiration, solidarity and doses of reality from us chumps. Come here, not to that creep, when you feel empty and scared or angry and confused.
The most useful piece of advice to almost any woman in almost any bad situation is “Get mad! Own your anger!” So many women are afraid of their own anger. They think it’s toxic. They try to sublimate it through “forgiveness” or spirituality; they turn it inwards and become depressed (that’s what is toxic). One of the greatest gifts of good therapy is to show us what anger is FOR.
Oh sweetheart. I’ve been there. What I didn’t realise for years was, staying with him/going back to him forever means hurting forever. Breaking up with him for good means hurting for a while, then healing and meeting other men, hopefully with some time in between to enjoy yourself single. Please don’t condemn yourself to an eternity of misery
This was uncomfortable to read due to pain of recognition. Turning yourself into pretzels to try to stay in connection with him has shut off your connection to yourself. You need to get away from this relationship and find yourself. You won’t be able to it while with this guy. Seek space and supportive non-shaming presence of intimate friends. If your friends can’t be that, find a therapist or a CODA group. It will be painful in the short term to be on your own and to no longer be distracted from some hard truths about your life by constant catering to him, but there is so much more for you than what you are caught in right now on the other side of that pain. You are addicted to this dysfunction and you need to quit to save yourself. Please get out.