Cheater Promises to Live Like a ‘Dog in a Cage’
Her cheater promises if she takes him back, he’ll live ‘like a dog in a cage.’ Who wants to be the relationship police? And why would he think this is an appealing offer?
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Dear Chump Lady,
Do narcissists ever beg, plead, offer to let you track them via GPS, never go out, etc. to get you back? He actually said he’d be willing to live like a dog in a cage — as if I’d ever want this. He’s saying that he’s not sleeping or eating, that he’s losing his mind. That he will be dead if I don’t talk to him.
When he had a choice, he chose to neglect me, cheat, and lie.
Now he says he can’t live without me.
I was planning on moving forward with the divorce, but what if it makes him worse? I was betrayed and rejected, and now I have to deal with the pain and consequences of rejecting him.
Finally, I blocked his texts and emails, but I’m afraid he might actually hurt himself or try to see me in person. As chumpy as it is, I do still love him, and knowing he’s in misery is eating me alive. I know I can never go back to him. Seeing him or talking to him would just bring me pain. The last time was in really bad shape.
But I feel so cruel.
Goldie
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Dear Goldie,
He says he’ll die if you don’t talk to him? If he would rather die, he had better do it and decrease the surplus population of narcissists. (To borrow a line from Ebenezer Scrooge.)
Really, Goldie, call that bluff. Stay no contact. He is NOT your problem. You had it exactly right — when he had you, he neglected you, cheated and lied. That’s who he REALLY is — not a sad moppet.
He is ramping up the manipulation to epic proportions because he is losing control.
That’s all this is. A FW having a fit that his ego kibbles are draining away, and it’s hard to find a new sucker. You were of USE to him!!! How DARE you leave?!
Which isn’t to say you should take this lightly — the most dangerous time is when you leave a wingnut. I can’t judge his crazy factor, but I wouldn’t take any chances. Have your lawyer write him a letter threatening harassment charges. If he violates it and contacts you, immediately file charges or get a protection from abuse order. Stalking is no joke. Suicide threats are no joke (but NOT your responsibility!) It means you’re dealing with a very unwell mind. A very angry, manipulative person — you need to put a LOT of distance there. Not swoop in and “save” him or fix this. Leave that to the cops, or the county social worker.
Oh, but you feel “cruel.”
Slap yourself.
You are NOT cruel. HE is cruel. You ending things is the natural consequence of his actions — deceiving and cheating on you. This is abuse. You have bought into the narcissist mindfuck when you believe you are “cruel” to make him face accountability. But, the rules don’t apply to him! How DARE you not give him what he wants!
You’re a good person — a chump — and so to see anyone in pain hurts you. Makes you feel hugely uncomfortable. He knows this, and so he’s going to play you. If you want to help him — help him face consequences. Now, I’m very skeptical that FWs can change, but the shrinks say the only hope of them getting it, and reforming, is to feel some pain that registers with them.
You might wonder now he’s felt pain, is it safe to swoop back in and make things right again? No — the pain is your forever absence. And you’ll know he’s healthy (after decades of therapy) when he humbly leaves you the fuck alone, because he gets it. His begging and pitching fits are signs of how much he does NOT get it.
Also know, that if you ever take him back, Goldie? He is going to build those walls so much higher the next time. If you think he was abusive and controlling before? It gets much, much worse if you reward his hoovering. (BTDT, had the protection from abuse orders…)
He’s gambling that you’ll believe his promise to live like a ‘dog in a cage.’
Gee, how could you resist a lifetime offer to be the relationship police? Imagine having a command central in your living room, with computer screens and ankle monitors. You could coordinate data points like they do on cop shows! “Suspect is lingering too long at the Safeway…”
OMG no. Do you see how fucked up that is? He thinks this is all about “you’re not the boss of me!” and so, gosh, as a huge concession, he’ll LET you be boss! With handcuffs and everything. Because that’s what marriages are to him — cages. How long do you think he’ll last as your humble subject before he’s fomenting revolution? Pass on this offer to be his oppressor, Goldie.
Stay strong on the no contact. Forget his pain and focus on your healing. The beauty of no contact is that it gives you some breathing room. Enjoy the peace. And don’t feel one. bit. sorry. for this asshole.
Hi Goldie,
I am sorry about what is happening to you. I had to tell you that at one point, my wasband sent me a link to a men’s chastity belt for sale online and said he would buy that and wear it if I would come back. I pondered this idea and said, ok, that would be a really great idea and would help me build trust again. He got angry and said I was being unreasonable. It was so funny! I called his bluff.
Stay strong Goldie!
I had all sorts of extenuating circumstances, including PTSD from something he suffered while we were together (but after he had totally abused me. I found out later). SO I caved… and caved… and caved. He truly was a mess. The last time I tried to see if I was being “too harsh”, about a year after I left our house and bought one of my own, which he was visiting me at. I checked his computer. While at MY house, probably in MY BED, he was looking for “casual encounters” on CL, and had contacted 31 women on Match.com. This is after he swore up and down he was a changed man and I could absolutely trust him, and he would do anything to get me back because he might as well be dead without me, and he fucked up so bad, and he’s soooooo sorry he hurt me and he realizes now just how good he had it and how awful he is…….. blah blah blah. Oh, and my personal favorite.. “how can you just throw away all our history, all our years together… me”?
Seriously.
No Goldie…. don’t cave. Be stronger than I was. They don’t change, I don’t care what some therapist says. They don’t change.
Somebody like this is not only incredibly cruel and disrespectful…..he’s also an addict. You can be addicted to anything that gives you a lift, a high, a rush, etc, from sugar to crack to sex. You can’t trust an addict, you can’t rely on them and you should always try to dis-entwine them from your lives unless they can become completely clean – away from you, stay that way, and you can forgive the past. I don’t think most people can, it’s too much to ask.
Dear Goldie,
Do not feel sorry for your husband. I too was neglected, treated poorly and ultimately cheated on. Regardless, I sat there listening and supporting him because he was going through a hard time, “existential crisis (hahahahahahah)” , how he couldn’t live without me in his life so he broke it off with the OW (but wouldn’t defriend her on Facebook). Mine too begged me not to divorce him, told me that everyone who counseled me to dump his crap on the front lawn did not understand our connection and kept dangling the carrot in my fact just to keep me hooked. And as soon as things cooled down and I started to relax he would just take advantage and pull another stunt. Its been two years and quite frankly i haven’t heard one truth come out of that man’s mouth. As of now (probably because the OW or someone else is taking priority) he decides he needs space and of course it is all about him and what this “limbo” is doing to him, never mind me and the children. He also denied he ever begged me not to divorce him (complete lie on his part).
Moral of the story? 18 months after dday and 18 months of being duped, mindfucked and taken advantage of. Only now, am I happy digging myself out of the mess he created.
DOnt waste anymore time and just move on. As soon as you give in he is going to change his tune and it will be all the harder for you to walk away.
P.S. if you really think he might harm himself, do contact his family or doctor or someone so they can intervene and get him some help. However, going back to a liar and a cheater so he won’t harm himself, that is a no win situation for you.
His metaphor tells you all you need to know. Living in a way that makes his faithfulness is reliable is, to him, living “like a dog in a cage.” That the way he sees it. He sees being faithful to you as cruel and unusual punishment. If you are not insulted by that, you are impervious to insult.
Also, by talking this way he’s trying to make you feel sorry for him. His bluff is you would never say, “Okay, live like a dog in a cage.” He’s placing that bet because he knows you’re a nice person and he’s taken advantage of you time and again relying on the compassionate impulse.
End this abusive mindf*ck now. Find someone who cherishes you and who thinks an exclusive relationship with you would be easy . . . and bliss. You deserve that.
Hear hear. Having a mutually fulfilling monogamous relationship is not punishment. He is of the ball and chain mindset, so set him free, and free yourself.
*Applause* Awesome comment.
Stop being weak. Take care of yourself!
Perfectly stated, Nomar.
You are spot on.
WEll said, Nomar, and something everyone should take heed of. Should being in a loving, faithful, trusting relationship feel like punishment? Like a dog trapped in a cage? That is truly fucked up and tells all anyone would need to know about the mindset of the person saying such a thing.
Im going through a very similar thing with my STBXH, though he isnt threatening suicide. I keep getting lots of texts about how its eating him up inside, how horrible he knows he’s fucked up, how he cant sleep, cant eat, etc. I do believe that he is hurting, and Im not trying to use the thumb screws on him and make him feel worse, but he is the one that made the choices that got us both to where we are today. I do care about what happens to him, so I called a long time friend of his/ours and asked this guy to get ahold of my STBXH cause I knew he needed a friend. Right now my focus is on me and my kids.
Another thing that occured to me, I went back and looked at all the texts, the letter he wrote me, all of it was about him. It was about HE cant sleep, HE cant eat, HE feels so bad that its eating him up….. Never once did he ask how I was doing, how I felt, nope – it was all about how badly he was suffering.
So I try not to respond to his texts any more than I have to. If possible I keep our communication about the divorce, the kids, finances, etc. On one level I do care about him, but the bottom line is that he spent years making selfish choices that broke my heart. So now he’s suffering? You reap what you sow.
I know this is a long time ago, but this lady was handling an incredibly stressful situation, incredibly well – getting a friend of FW’s involved, keeping herself focused on what was important to her and the kids despite acknowledging – and caring – that he did seem to be in pain – of his own causing – but she had to take care of her and the kids. I hope things went well for Angie in the end. It strikes me as particularly sad that this is the woman he deliberately abused and threw away because she obviously was (hopefully is) a gem. Pearls before swine.
He’s ‘hurting’ not because of the way he treated you but because he got caught, probably exposed and may just have to deal with some not so flattering opinions of himself. Narcs HATE having the mask ripped off and they feel loads of self-pity when it happens–and this can look like actual pain. It’s not pain as you and I know it, it’s them freaking out because their image has taken a hit.
Thats a very good point, hadn’t thought about that. I guess to me, its not so much if his pain legitimate or just the tantrum of a cake eater . He is having to deal with the consequences of his actions. Although Im not making an effort to make him “suffer” more, I sure dont feel like its my duty to help him through it.
It’s definitely not your duty to help him through this. It’s your duty to help yourself through it. He’s his own problem now. Let him figure it out.
CL, Is there any possibility that we were separated at birth? <3<3<3
Christ, let him off himself if that’s what he wants to do. STBX is constantly threatening me (usually when he’s having a tiff with OW–seems to want to hoover me) and I learned to just say ‘go ahead’. I usually don’t hear from him again on whatever inane topic he’s brought up at whatever time.
It’s like dealing with a child who says he’ll do such and such if he doesn’t get his way. What do you say to a child? You say ‘fine, go ahead’. And then they pause and realise that you’re not falling for their shit. Same principle.
Goldie,
My h has also threatened suicide and I told him if he ever did that again, I was going to call the guys in the white coats to have him carted away. That is ABUSE, in the extreme.
Fortunately, I don’t love him– anymore. He went out of his way to destroy me and my love.
Please, its fine to love the manipulative, selfish sod. In time you won’t. Love yourself more; a LOT more! He is not capable of this and I agree wholeheartedly with everything CL and the others have said. I’ve never seen a narc change. Not really. Oh, they may stop acting out sexually, (extremely rare) but then they’ll start over-eating, or drinking, gambling, shopping, or my fave, they suddenly find God and/or Jesus and become addicted to religion. Its just the same leopard underneath the thin veneer of “recovery.”
Then… there are the fake recoveries. This is not a laughing matter. You are doing the right thing. Stay strong!
Wow this is such a great post from the past!!!!!! Yup, they DON’T change, unless they really work very very very hard at it – and very few do. They just move on to something else – it’s much easier. I don’t think most of them give up on the sex addiction or whatever we want to call it but they can move on to other things, including religion, just as she says. Anything can be used to prop up a needy,defective person.
MIne is currently addicted to exercise. Actually gets pissed at the kids if they get in the way of his workout. I figure it will burn itself out eventually, as he is essentially lazy, but something will take it’s place, probably more women.
ugh. Mine works out a shitload too now. Probably cause he’s mad that I have lost some weight due to the trauma he inflicted upon me. Or it’s A) to look better for chicks and B) to pick up chicks. The most annoying thing about it is that I pay that gym membership… he pays a different membership at a place so the kids can get their gymnastics lessons, soccer, etc. But yes, he drags my little boys there so they can be watched while he works out on his every other weekends. So, mr. misses the kids SOOO much still can’t even handle 2 days in a row without a break.
Hahahaha…STBX pulls this crap as well: INSISTS on seeing the kids, then leaves them alone in his flat while he goes and works out/jogs/struts in front of a mirror for a few hours during that precious, precious time.
The kids are on to him (finally) and sadly they realise they are not a priority. I am so sad he is their father.
Same here! Not only is he now dragging them on outings with the OW and her kids (fortunately, my kids are still so little that they aren’t yet annoyed by it), but he also saves his grocery shopping for when they are there (EOW). I’m sure it’s because he can shove them in the grocery store’s playplace while he shops, and then he doesn’t have to deal with them for an hour over his weekend.
your grocery store has a playplace?? I’ve never heard of that before…
which I know was not the point of your post 🙂
Goldie, in my experience normal people will say anything to keep a beneficial relationship going. Add some personality disorder like narcissism into the mix and things can get explosive in a hurry. My ex-wife volunteered having her car tracked! How crazy is anyone to agree to track their spouses car? (So no I didn’t of course. I figured she would just take a cab.)
Blocking texts and calls is probably a smart thing as some narcissist are really talented liars and, even more sinisterly, deceivers. Look to what he does and did, rather than what he says. Make decisions off of the data you’ve collected. Anything words he utters, after all, are the words of a liar.
“if you don’t let me cheat, I’ll kill myself.”
CL, this was a great post, you peeled the layers of deceit one by one.
Dear Goldie – Yes, I know this one too – turns out “anything to have me back….” when I actually attempted to go back…… meant that his “new” integrity meant detailing for me all the stuff he was doing with the OW – his idea of “integrity” was not to stop seeing her, but, being “honest” about everything they were doing together. The new “normal” was business as usual. Blew my mind. I left after a week. 3 weeks into NC – I managed to get trapped again but only for another 24 hours.
If you can, BLOCK everything – his numbers, his email, his texts….. I’ve said this before on this site…. create a predictable environment for yourself. BLOCK EVERYTHING! if you have that option. He won’t know that’s what you’ve done, but do it for yourself.
You didn’t mention if you have kids. Its much harder to do if that’s your situation – if its not, go cold turkey. Choose your pain – its so much easier than death by a thousand cuts. As soon as you go back….. well, there is no going back.
Listen to what people are saying here. They are spot on. Its awful I know but its way easier than the “dance”.
Again, such GREAT advice from the past!!!
Sorry about that Goldie – you did say that you had blocked everything. I think any decent person wants to comfort the person they love if they are in pain. I did that too, I wanted to comfort him….. because his life was so COMPLICATED and he felt so SAD and AFRAID – that’s called Chutzpah – you know, the child who kills his parents and then wants special consideration for being a orphan…..
Its what’s know as consequences. I know what it is to love them because they hurt but if you get ANY distance at all, it all so backwards and hurtful. It’s profoundly unfair of them to pull the pain card.
All you can do Goldie is walk, run. Step away from the crazy – as they say, this is the first day of the rest of your life. Courage my friend.
I did the whole penis-warden thing at the very beginning when he was begging to come back. Had the GPS tracker on his phone, made him text me photos with time-stamps of his destinations when he left on trips, made him take taxis to and from the airport on work trips and show me all his receipts. I took over all the financial aspects, and got in there and tracked him, and investigated him, and poured over deep-internet trying to find traces of him.
You know what? It SUCKED. HARD. It didn’t give me piece of mind. It made me go out of my mind because I was sucked into suspicion and fear and lived like I was waiting for the axe to fall. It wasn’t healthy for me or the kids. Once I finally let go, decided I couldn’t live like that anymore, nor did I WANT a marriage where I had to police his every action and have him as the naughty third child I didn’t want, I felt so much relief.
Once I concentrated on breaking away, being there for my kids, that’s when things got better. Sure, he spent time braying like the jackass he is, but it didn’t matter, because I knew I’d never do that again. It’s no way to live.
Ignore him, and focus on yourself. What’s done is done. You know who he is now, and what he is fully capable of. For me, it was a dealbreaker, even if he became a monk for the rest of his life.
I played penis-warden (love it!) for a while too. Isn’t it exhausting? I felt like I was raising another teenager. No thanks!
Pretend for one moment you have a daughter or niece or little sister. She’s dating a boy and breaks up with him. He responds by calling the house at all hours crying, sending novel length emails, posting on her facebook wall, begging her to take him back and threatening to hurt himself if she won’t. Would your advice be:
A) take him back. You’re the only one who can save him.
B) don’t date him, but keep taking his calls and trying to help him work through the break up. You may not be his girlfriend but you can still be his therapist.
C) tell a therapist or someone else with the ability to help him then see if he gets better so the two of you can still be friends.
D) tell someone who can help him, show all the emails with proof, then walk away and block all communication. Protect yourself.
And be honest. If this was really happening to your daughter/niece/little sister/younger cousin, etc. what would you want them to do.
Depends on the guy and the circumstances.
I’m guilty of being a Nice Guy so I would probably advise B. Assuming my daughter’s bf was a nice guy and that the two had a pretty good relationship that didn’t end up working out, I would tell her to keep the lines of communication friendly and open…but with limits.
The problem with ex’s (and I’m damn guilty of this myself) is that once they fall into the Needy Zone for whatever reason (guilt over cheating, desperation or genuine heartbreak), there’s no limits to their demands.
This creates a potential problem whereby if my daughter is nice enough to take his call on Tuesday, the ex may expect her to take his call on Wednesday morning, Wednesday night, Thursday morning, and Thursday night, etc. That would pushing it, since she’d basically still be his girlfriend.
It’s a tough call. I don’t have children, nor am I really old enough to have children of dating age. But I’ve always aimed to be the Bigger Person when it comes to these things and that’s what I’d advise my child to do. There is, however, a fine line between being friendly and eating a shit sandwich, and I’d make sure she respected that line for the sake of her own sanity.
Plus I assume your hypothetical scenario involves a teenage girl? That takes it into another ballpark because when it comes to breakups teenage boys are nothing but melodrama (I know ’cause I was one…lol). :-p
I pray God you have no daughters. It’s not being the better man to play unpaid therapist. It’s exhausting, emotionally draining, makes you feel like a failure because you can’t fix the person, who’s telling it’s your fault they’re broken, and the person generally doesn’t want to be fixed. Professionals are taught to not emotionally invest in their patients for a reason. Encourage a continuation of dialogue and the relationship goes from dating to emotionally and sometime verbally abusive. Do not encourage people to stay in abusive relationships.
My STBX (any day now he will now longer be “soon to be” ex!) totally played the suicide card. Multiple times. When he first threatened it, I was seriously concerned, my therapist even thought it was a possibility (because his complete inability to deal or acknowledge our separation, have people find out, etc.), and I was also still in my Amazon chump phase… so what did I do? Ordered books! At least it was only a couple… And the books possibly freaked me out more because I became more convinced that suicide happens more than you think and maybe he would actually do it. The last time I hugged him was when he was pulling this shit the first time. I called his brothers a couple times when I was concerned. Oh, then his (total alcoholic) brother also literally told me it would be my fault if he did it. Asshole. They were all just manipulating me.
It took a while for me to realize that he only threatened it after talking about how he “worked so hard and now he’s going to have nothing to show for it” and other such money talk. Nothing about the kids or losing his family or anything. It was just a way to blame and guilt me and probably try to get me to give in on our settlement because it was the only card he could play that brought out any feelings other than anger in me. I didn’t give in about the money, cause I’m not an idiot and he’d already signed shit. But I did feel shitty and guilty about it. And paranoid he was actually going to do it and leave me to pick up the pieces with his children, and my own guilt, etc.
So, yeah, he played that card probably once every 2-3 months… but now that the divorce is almost ALMOST final, I don’t think he thinks it will do him any good anymore so hopefully he’ll stop. Plus, it’s much less believable when I know he’s got a beach trip planned with his buddy (he’s seriously going to FL during “spring break”… ugh). And if there is a next time I think I will call the cops. (of course he would never outtright say he was going to kill himself just stuff like he’d rather be dead, etc., more like insinuations than total threats).
After doing depositions a week or so ago I mighta called him just to yell at him (stupid, I know, but I couldn’t reach a couple friends I tried to call first). Anyway, he made the mistake of at one point saying “You’re just upset because I’ve moved on!”. I guess that should have hurt me, but I’m actually so happy he said it because he’s been denying it and pretending to be miserable for so long… and the next time he tries to complain to me, threaten suicide, or treat me like a wife (wait, I already said that when I said “complain to me”) I’m going to quote him back to him. He’s just fucking with me and he can take his complaints and whatever else to whoever he has “moved on” with. I’m glad he’s finally provided me with my “out” against feeling guilty. It took a while, but I finally got there.
I am surprised at the wiring differences of normal people with these serial cheaters/ cheaters. They pity themselves for being in a wrong marriage. Whosoever cares to listen, will get to hear his needs which were unmet in marriage. WTF. Why does nobody ask him- Dear what did you bring in? Who is taking care of your son? Why are you running away from your responsibilities?…But yes! Poor cheaters. They are victims! Victims of chumps. I often get confused: Do they really think so? I mean how? How can he not see the devastation he caused in our lives? How can he have a good life, while I am doing all the work of reconstruction? I mean Life is Unfair. But so gross…
“Penis warden”! I love that. My STBX promised to break off all contact with OW if I would just give him another chance. All he did was elevate to a more elaborate level of deception. He was actually showing me his cell phone records to prove that he wasn’t calling her, but using stolen sim cards so the calls wouldn’t show.
He threatened suicide too, until I stopped reacting and acted like I didn’t care. I said I would call the cops the last time, and he threatened to take out a gun and make the cops shoot him in front of the kids. Seems like he would play any card he could to keep the drama going and keep control of me. It is all an act. All he cares about is himself, and the extent he cares about me is only that I am useful to him. He cares about himself too much to hurt himself.
It’s true, they don’t change. And going back after they have treated you like shit is just telling them that they don’t need to change.
I would say if this happens – if he threatens harm to you and the kids or to do something harmful to himself to traumatize them – take the kids and go. Anywhere. Family, friend, hotel, and once you are all safely out of harm’s way….call the police and tell them. Take threats of violence towards yourself and the kids – and threatening to traumatize the kids IS violence – seriously. Don’t try to talk him out of it or play into this – get out of there with the kids and leave it to the professionals.
Goldie, I am so glad you brought this up. CL – as always, great advice, and something I am going to try to remember. I have to admit, I struggle with feelings of guilt all the time. My stbx is circling the drain – all due to his own fucked up choices – but it’s still hard to watch regardless. He is unemployed (quit his good paying job!), and hasn’t worked in over a year. And, he can’t collect unemployment because he quit. So he has zero income. He still considers himself “above” certain jobs, so I guess he would rather starve. During this past year, he drained every penny out of our savings account, and of course, dumped all the bills on me.
Now, he is a squatter in our home waiting for the sheriff to show up and throw his ass out. Yep…when he decided to quit his job, the bank took our house. He still seems surprised by that. Hey asshole, the bank frowns on folks who don’t pay their mortgage. And the worst part is that he knew I didn’t earn enough to cover the mortgage, and he quit anyway. I decided to skip the fun of having my stuff thrown on the front lawn for all the neighbors to see, and moved out. Well, that and the fact that he’s a cheating, lying abusive POS 🙂
Best part – OW dumped him so he is alone. Now I get pathetic texts from him begging for help. My friends and family think I am crazy to feel any compassion for him. His own family has told me to just walk away ,even though I have told them that I do believe he is desperate enough to do something crazy. It would be hard for me to let a stranger starve. I’m just not built that way and he knows it. Ugh! A friend told me recently that he looks terrible, very skinny, almost sick. I am sure he is getting very hungry, however it is also “beneath” him to go to the food pantry. I used to take a bag of cheap food over to him about once a week, but I have stopped doing that. I honestly don’t know how he is surviving. He will definitely be living in his car soon. He probably thinks I’ll take him in when that happens. He is very mistaken.
I know I should just not care. He is such a narc. If the situation was reversed, he would walk away, and never look back. I guess that’s what makes me a chump. Ugh.
drained the bank account? very, very thin? sounds like he’s into meth honey. is he losing his teeth yet? its so, so sexy when that happens. they do meth cause it enhances the erotic high. ugh. next week, he’ll be putting cock roaches up his ass… (sorry, I know that’s absolutely beyond disgusting, but that’s the sorta thing they do when this disease gets into the advanced stages)
he’s very, very sick and he’s already gone. yes, its sad. its alright to mourn, but he’s amongst the (barely) living dead. Take good care of you. Focus on you.
when you focus on him and do ANYTHING for him, you are only enabling him. Its not going to help. If he can’t stand on his own, then he can’t stand on his own. He needs to be able to do that and the only way he can possibly do it is if you are not around– at all.
keep remembering that.
((hugs)) ~ L
Laurel, it’s not meth. His choice of poison is booze. He’s a good old fashioned drunk and I have been enabling and enduring his crappy behavior for years. He is very near bottom now, but it’s all on him. You are right about him being “already gone.” I don’t feel one bit bad about saving myself. I don’t even know why I wrote this post since I already know what I need to do. I was just having a rough night and needed to vent.
((hugs)) honey. venting is healthy and vital. Knowing what one needs to do is one thing and takes a lot of courage. However, reconciling all of it; that takes time. One way or the other. It takes time and its still unbelievably heartbreaking.
Goldie – didn’t mean to hijack, but you really hit a raw nerve for me.
I think CL has given good advice to always remember: they cheated because they felt ENTITLED to cheat.
What is it about keeping tabs on a cheater, about caging him or her, that will change their entitlement?
Answer: at best, nothing, and at worst, it will exacerbate the attitude, now that you are an obsessive control freak (fun!) OR that you have laid out a challenge.
So, skip the theatrics and leave.
Laurel had I not known your personal history and CL’s too from what she has shared here I would have thought it’s the same person !!!!!!
I love the way CL says it like it is..all the chumps who have yet not reached NC or even after going NC get melancholic or look back and crave for the past need her ice cold dunking to keep them on the path.
<3
Goldie, tell him if you want a dog you will get one.
They are far more honest and faithful.
Lol–love this. Sad but so true. Thanks for the laugh. God knows I need it!
Update: I just found out that the OW broke up with him. He’s been playing the poor me, I miss you card with both of us. That makes things much simpler.
Hi Goldie,
Hate to be nosy but what are you inclined to do now?
Divorce the fucker and get as far away from him as possible. Idiot posted to her on Facebook. While we were together, he told me he cancelled his account. I just found out he blocked me all this time. No one else we know are FB friends of his, not even his family. Dumbass didn’t make his account private though, and mutual friends saw what he’s been posting. Everything is public except his friend list. He’s away on business, and wants to talk to me (again) when he gets back. He has no idea I know about this.
Correction: not mutual friends. My friends who used to consider him a friend. He has no real friends. Just lots of acquaintances.
I wish you the best. For what it’s worth. My biggest regret was not dropping his bags off at the ow’s house and never looking back.
OW texted me. He’s giving her the exact same story. Evil.
Yes. Evil. Run!
Guess he couldn’t live in that “cage” very long, huh?
When we were in wreconciliation, FW talked a good game. My chumpiness kicked in… I still had a major hopium habit. I broached the subject we should enable either location services, or Life360, or something similar, for her to earn my trust. Yeah, I was willing to be the Captain on the marriage police squad. Her tune turned on a dime, and she said maybe we need to slow down. I stayed stuck for too long, but looking back on this now it shows me who she really is, and was at the time.
It’s amazing how this story from several years ago is the SAME cheater tactics as now. Many threaten suicide and these creeps are dangerous as mine was. Goldie, I don’t know what you did back when you wrote Tracy but everything Tracy said here is Truth. Please don’t feel.bad, it is an ACT that sadly and dangerously WORKS on soft chumps. You cannot monitor a wild animal like your cheater. Each time you take them back they are smarter and know how to go underground even more. My XHC STUDIED ME and knew each time I got suspicious, how to hide and fool me even more. You become more broken more brainwashed UNTIL YOU are the dog in HIS cage. Get out now, stay no contact and get strong. I was almost too late to save me. I’m so thankful for Tracy and you all feeding me courage every day.
“You become more broken more brainwashed UNTIL YOU are the dog in HIS cage. ”
Well said.
I know someone that went the wreckonciliation route. His cheating wife lives like a prisoner. The cheater is not allowed to say, go out to dinner, even with female friends or family, not unless the husband comes. She has to go to and from work, no errands. Has to check in from work multiple times a day, and do facetime so the husband knows they are really at work. I’m sure there are more rules I forgot.
Now, I don’t feel BAD for this FW. But I think we can all agree that is no way to live. And even more so for the chumpy husband, who I do feel bad for. I’m not sure what made him decide that he wanted to stay and be the marriage police, but I have to assume it was some level of fear of leaving. They had been married 20 years, had several kids, maybe he just couldn’t get past the idea of their life blowing up?
All I know is that he has all those rules in place, and has to enforce them and manage them and for what? The FW wife could still cheat if she really wanted to. It would be harder, but she could do it. That’s really the problem with being the marriage police. It’s all this work to make sure your spouse is doing what should just be the bare minimum, be faithful. I understand that the chumpy husband has a choice, he could LACGAL. He is choosing this icky existence all on his own. Maybe he is just too scared to LACGAL and thinks this is better? Or he feels like the FW Wife is getting punished here and he enjoys that.
Either way, it’s just not a great place to BE.
It sounds exhausting. I could never live that way.
If only they would put the energy they take into screwing us up and put that into their careers or helping mankind. They might be able to cure cancer someday. Such a waste of time, energy, emotion, money – everything.
I had two “lovelorn” workplace stalkers since college. Both threatened suicide though I followed through with prosecution anyway. Both are still alive. I successfully sued the second and the judge ruled
(oops, posted too soon) the judge ruled for malice so, though I never bothered to collect at the time, I can in perpetuity and the defendant can’t file bankruptcy to avoid paying. Considering the amount of interest that’s accrued, I think it’s fine he’s still kicking and earning otherwise it would have saved me a lot of further mayhem if he’d offed himself.
What I was told by the ADA when the first stalker dude threatened suicide is that rage turned inward can turn outward on a dime and I was immediately given a bench order of protection. The second stalker issued a suicide threat from his jail cell via a coworker. The reaction of the arresting officer was to personally threaten both the perpetrator and his flying monkey messenger with witness intimidation charges, then stripped the perp’s cell of sheets, shoelaces, pants, etc. Since then I take my cues from how law enforcement manages suicide threats from abusive or violent individuals– as more of a threat against victims and victims’ supporters.
I made scads of mistakes, but somehow I knew that joining the marriage police was out. Someone suggested that at one point when I was still taking hopium, and I was like NOOOOO!
Thankfully other than a “I botched up,” I never got an apology. What came out during the divorce was horrifying enough to me that I had nightmares at times.
Borrow/rent a dog kennel and tell him to get on in. Literally. And keep him in there a few days and feed him from dishes off the floor. He can get out for a walkie to go poop on the sidewalk but he needs to pick it up himself. I might actually considering doing this for a few days before I threw his ass out for good. Nothing like a good old humiliation ritual. Have a bone, Spot.
But seriously…..don’t take this suicide or Imagonnadie bullshit seriously. Most of the time is IT just manipulation and if they try this with you, you can either just call 911 and tell them you have someone threatening suicide or tell FW you’re gonna do this. And then DO IT if they continue. It’s almost always an empty threat for manipulation and sympathy but if on the off chance it’s real, the pros should handle it.
The question is…..IS THIS THE RELATIONSHIP THAT YOU WANT? Aside from his or her threats, IS this the relationship YOU want? Does this make you happy? Would you marry this person again knowing what they’ve done? When was the last time YOU felt loved and cherished by this person? When was the last time they did anything for you that did not feel like manipulation on some level? And even if they DO love you….and maybe that is their version of “love”…..does it matter? Does it make you Happy? Secure? Fulfilled? Content? Safe? Valued? This is YOUR life too, you have to do what works for you and for your kids and that’s all. If someone acts in a destructive, cruel, calculating, unloving, deceitful, manipulative way to you….whether they actually “love” you or not….do you want to live like that? In YOUR life, your feelings for yourself and your dependents are what matters most and what you have to be guided by. You may feel sympathy or even sorrow at their antics but you have to do what is right for you in the end. Just feel those feelings, but don’t act on them….recognize you can even feel sorry for the most evil, detestable people, but it doesn’t change what they are, what they have made themselves to be, or how you have to live your own life.
On the OTHER hand…..DO take, I’m gonna hurt you and the kids SERIOUSLY and get help for this. Talk to the local police, to a lawyer, to a women’s group (unfortunately it’s usually women who get this), and take such threats seriously. Ask me how I know. There’s a lot of great advice and posters on this site who have a lot of knowledge and expertise in this area.
Hells bells, I don’t even keep my dog in a cage! This guy sounds like a grade A loser. Cut him loose and stay that way. All that self-harming bluster? well, actions do have consequences.
It occurs to me that one big difference between Chumps and FWs is that while FWs are guided almost solely by their emotions and desires….Chumps don’t have to be. Chumps can have feelings and desires and needs, of course, but we can restrain ourselves and hold back to achieve a bigger goal….delayed gratification….down the road. That’s a big evolutionary advantage and we cannot allow ourselves to be manipulated by other people’s incessant neediness and emotional blackmail. Everyone needs to learn some self restraint and control in life, as well as regard for other people, otherwise there is chaos. These are social goals as well as personal ones.
Excellent points Meh.
Everything that CL said about abuse and how potentially dangerous he may be given his manipulations and threats of self harm. But, additionally, calling faithfulness like being a dog in a cage is quite the backhanded insult to you. WTF? Yeah, he’s indicating he’s the same monster and nothing will change.
My FW framed being with me as “sacrificing himself”. He made it sound like I am “it’s good for you” broccoli that he had to suffer his way through to get to the good stuff (cake). Well, fuck that. Two years post DDay, I’m feeling mighty and worth coveting. Thank you, CN!
I don’t know what these idiots have going on in their minds. When I stood there trying to defend myself, such as I supported your career all our marriage, he said I did you too. I tried about three statements to try to wake him up (HA). All three he threw the same words back in my face. This was right after he told me he had been “dating for ten years”, and never loved me. It is like they don’t even know how stupid they sound.
But, I think what is going on in their head is two squirrels throwing knives at each other.
Goldie,
I hope 11 years on you realized that you were playing second fiddle in your own marriage and kicked that idiot to the curb.
There is simply no making up for what they did. None. We all know that they will resume previous bad behaviors when our defenses inevitably drop. This is why No Contact rules. We can’t blur our own boundaries or buckle to accustomed levels of our own compromise when we don’t talk to the idiots that wounded us. No new contact=no new wounds.
RATTLE THEIR CAGES!
Just a reminder to everyone whose FW wants a second, third or tenth chance that it takes years for people to change, and most people who lie, cheat and manipulate will need professional help. You aren’t in the fixer-upper business.