Danny Masterson and the Power of Impression Management

Source: Wikipedia

Dear Chump Lady,

These freaks fool people so well. I’ve been seeing quite a few shows lately that depict a horrible man, as a wonderful family man and father, who has completely fooled everyone — even himself.

It’s like they are two different people. That was the case with ex-FW. He was a very loving and wonderful father to his children. Yet he was living a double life. I am positive that nobody thought too poorly of him after D-Day because he was just the right degree of a good guy charming man.

Then I see this article.

Even with all the evidence saying this actor (Danny Masterson) was a brutal rapist, these two celebrities choose to write the most loving and endearing over the top letter, praising the guy who is found guilty of multiple rapes!

Why can’t people see the truth about others even when there’s evidence of their behavior that doesn’t match up with the nice guy image?

Signed,

Wool pulled over my eyes

***

Dear Wool,

Because they want to believe. Because to not believe is to realize that they, Splendid People and Good Judges of Character, were mistaken. And then the world becomes a very scary place. They’d have to take on the full weight and horror of the duplicity. That while this guy was fronting friendship and bonhomie he was sexually assaulting women. Or, in your case, was cheating on his wife.

Cue the “world isn’t black and white but sophisticated shades of gray” arguments excusing abuse.

If you excuse abuse then you don’t have to look at how you may have wittingly or unwittingly enabled it while it was occurring.

If you excuse abuse then you don’t have to dredge up any abuse in your past. MY SPACKLE IS VERY FRAGILE. DO NOT TOUCH IT.

If you excuse abuse then you can still hang out with the cool kids.

If you excuse abuse then you don’t have to reconsider who are the cool kids and if coolness is really something you should aspire to.

For anyone wondering what we’re talking about, Wool sent this article about the actor Danny Masterson (from the sitcom That 70s Show) who was sentenced last week to 30 years in prison for raping two women.

It came out that two of his former cast mates from the show, Mila Kunis and Ashton Kutcher, wrote character references for the judge, with the hope that Masterson would get a lighter sentence. Worse IMO, after they were called out on their support of Masterson, they said they still “support victims.”

“We are aware of the pain that has been caused by the character letters that we wrote on behalf of Danny Masterson,” the “Punk’d” creator began alongside his wife in a video message shared on Instagram Saturday.

Kunis added, “We support victims. We have done this historically through our work and will continue to do so in the future.”

using that word

The best clap back on that nonsense came from actress Christina Ricci.

Bravo Christina!

To further go down the fuckupedness rabbit hole, Masterson, his apologist celebrity friends, and his wife Bijou Phillips are scientologists. Phillips also wrote a letter to the judge, asking her to make an exception for Masterson because, while he may rape women, he’s really a great father.

“Danny is an amazing father. Our daughter and I are heartbroken that he is not home with us. It has been very difficult without him here. Even though he is now in jail, he calls her every day. He helps her with homework every night. He teaches her math with kindness and patience. She is far above grade level in all subjects, reading three grades above her own, and that is thanks to the guidance and attention of her father.

“Danny has watched her piano recitals and applauds when she practices in the living room after each song. Our daughter loves her pony on our farm, as well as our dogs and cats. But more than anything, she loves her father. When he calls us each day, she ends with ‘I love you too much Daddy.’

I’m sure this must be heartbreaking for this child. Particularly because mom is bonkers. A sane parent would’ve called the divorce attorney yesterday. Just goes to show the power of the piano recital.

(Also, WTF with the mommy brag that the child reads above grade level and is “far above” in all subjects? People on the gifted track can never be children of convicts!)

However, what’s particularly mind bending about all this is, it’s not as if there’s some doubt about what he did. We’re not saying “allegedly.” He doesn’t have  plausible deniability here. He was convicted of two rapes.

How much special exceptionalism are you huffing, Bijou?

Back to you, Wool.

He was a very loving and wonderful father to his children. Yet he was living a double life. I am positive that nobody thought too poorly of him after D-Day because he was just the right degree of a good guy charming man.

And yet you’re divorced from the creep, Wool. See how much saner you are than Bijou Phillips. See how you didn’t make an exception for his impression management. The double life was a deal breaker. You know that no amount of “charm” makes up for abuse.

If other people in your life can’t see that, they aren’t your people. Hang with the Christina Ricci’s of the world. Live in the truth.

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Beachgirl
Beachgirl
8 months ago

Mika and Ashton really lost me here. The descriptions of these rapes are horrific, violent. This falls under the category of even Hitler was nice to his dogs. What did Mila and Ashton think they were gaining by supporting him? The friendship of a monster? This guy is trash and I’m happy to see him get the justice his victims deserve.

Of yeah, and my love for Christina Ricci just grew by a bazillion!!

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  Beachgirl

I think Kunis has to be living on the banks of Da Nial for marrying Kutcher despite knowing he cheated on Demi Moore, something Kutcher admitted in an interview. I suppose Kunis thought calling Kutcher an “asshole” for mistreating his previous wife was a magic incantation that would prevent him cheating on her but the magic asshole incantation failed according to tabloids and Kutcher was rumored to have also cheated on Kunis.

In my experience, blind spots regarding intimate partners aren’t limited to partner’s behavior but tend to spread and become generalized blindness that put the denialist and the people around them at risk. Pink elephants are very large and block the view after all. Or you can think of it as “anesthetizing” instincts and intuition in order to dull one’s perceptions of a skeevy partner to enable living with them. That numbness can go global and dull intuitions about other types of danger, maybe even dangers posed to children. In other words, leave a creep, save your vision and intuition.

Quetzal
Quetzal
8 months ago

I knew they were both trash when Mila was okay with what Ashton did to Demi, because at the same time she was also cheating on Macaulay Culkin. She says so in an interview or memoir of some kind, because I read it recently.

They’re both predators who have found each other and the proof is in this last gesture.

Mehitable
Mehitable
8 months ago
Reply to  Beachgirl

I love Christina Ricci and just as she says, I think as a child actress she had a lot of experience with this stuff, it probably was an extra job just dodging these perverts. She knows whereof she speaks and sees through the bullshit. Charming people are frequently charming because they WANT something.

Granny K
Granny K
8 months ago
Reply to  Beachgirl

I think at some level, Mila and Ashton just don’t believe it. I think it’s just too horrific and so in their minds they just can’t go there. (This is just my humble opinion.)

G
G
8 months ago
Reply to  Granny K

They believe it. One of his victims posted something about Masterson knowing the skeletons in these 2’s closets.

https://twitter.com/gothspiderbitch/status/1700386236861423786

MsAzure
MsAzure
8 months ago
Reply to  Granny K

Or – and I am just speculating here – they may think the two victims engaged in consensual sex and things got a “little out of hand” somewhere along the line. You know, that blurred line of “he said / she said” creeps say. (I certainly don’t think this.) Masterson may have been the charming good guy to his friends and spun a believing tale … “I swear, she agreed, I ghosted her (or whatever, “dumped her”) and she’s seeking revenge.” What’s more troubling is after the conviction, with his case lacking reasonable doubt, they still support him. Christina Ricci hit the nail on the head.

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
8 months ago

“Because they want to believe. Because to not believe is to realize that they, Splendid People and Good Judges of Character, were mistaken. And then the world becomes a very scary place.”

Yes, this. We all like to think that we can spot the monsters in our midst.

My Cheater had an amazingly sweet face…the first time I laid eyes on him, I saw a lovely person. He went on to have good moments mixed with very very bad ones including rage, terror-driving, cheating (with its accompanying lying) and speaking threats to me behind closed doors that he would commit a mass casualty event (Im assuming to convince me to call police so that he could demonstrate to the world that I was delusional).

Guys like Bill Cosby are real. Mr Good on the outside and abuser/rapist behind doors.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  Unicornomore

Like my mother used to say, “Life would be so simple if the devil always wore horns.” It’s a pretty well documented fact that helping/heroic professions attract a disproportionate number of domestic abusers. And to quote 20th century existentialist Jean Paul Sartre, “Everything is permitted the hero.” Being an epic FW and perv himself, Sartre would know better than most.

Jovi E
Jovi E
8 months ago

Mila and Ashton are 2 pos. Bijou Phillips is the younger daughter of John Phillips, of Mamas and Papas fame. Back in the early 90s John was accused of incest with his oldest daughter Mackenzie Phillips. So it’s easy to see why Bijou would marry a predator like Masterson. Like minded people stick together. I’m no fan of Hollywood, as it is full of depraved people but Mila Kunis both surprised and disappointed me by sticking up for Danny Masterson, since they were all on the 70s Show.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
8 months ago
Reply to  Jovi E

Mia Farrow’s brother did prison time for child rape.

WalkawayWoman
WalkawayWoman
8 months ago
Reply to  Jovi E

I read Mackenzie Phillips’ memoir “High On Arrival.” I believe her.

Mehitable
Mehitable
8 months ago
Reply to  Jovi E

I hate to say it, but it’s what she was accustomed to. This happens so often even if people can’t see it directly – they frequently marry someone like one of their parents, usually (but not always) the oppo sex parent and the similarities are frequently not obvious at the start….it happens subconsciously. Many people from abusive families marry abusers.

CarolinaChump
CarolinaChump
8 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Agree with you Mehitable. This is true in my family of origin. I was abused and married a covert serial cheating abuser who said he was straight but had a double life acting out with gay men. For 37 years. As a codependent (a dysfunctional trait I learned from my parents), the path forward for me now at my age, 69, is to learn to finally love myself. Focus ONLY on what I can change, which is me.

DrDr
DrDr
8 months ago
Reply to  CarolinaChump

Sorry Carolina Chump. You’re an inspiration to me.

Adelante
Adelante
8 months ago
Reply to  CarolinaChump

My story is similar.

Falling Forward
Falling Forward
8 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

hand raised… my FW turned out to be a carbon copy of my father. the 28 year old me that fell for him had tremendous hope and faith, but no discernment.

KatiePig
KatiePig
8 months ago

I’ll admit I don’t know much about the story. I don’t follow celebrity anything. I was surprised when I heard he got as long as he did. It’s sad but I guess I’m just used to people getting away with shit, I watch a lot of true crime and it’s sad how many people get bullshit short sentences for horrible crimes or full on get away with it. We saw this the other day and I said, “wow, really? 30 to life?” and my boyfriend said, “It must have been bad for them to give him that much time.” Like I said, we know nothing about the case but with all that money and fancy lawyers, damn, it must have been bad.

It is incredibly disturbing how much people can get away with if they’re charming and nice and likable. I remember pleading with a friend who had children, little girls, to just go on a website and see what he was writing and doing. She didn’t have to believe me, he’s posting it all, anyone can create an account log in and see it. She lectured me about violating his privacy. I told her it wasn’t private, anyone could see it. She told me someone must be impersonating him. I said, and they’re doing it from his computer in our home using his email account? She said, see! You’re violating his privacy!

That woman had him stay in her home several times after this. He slept in her child’s bedroom for fuck’s sake! And people might gasp and think that’s so unusual but it is not. This happens all the time! They don’t want to believe so they just don’t, even if there is evidence right there in their face. They’ll get their own kids raped over it. I mean, how many families “that uncle.” My ex faced zero consequences but I was smeared and destroyed. Even now that he’s been arrested, that friend ditched him but he’s still facebook friends with her daughter. Plenty of people who claimed to hate pedophiles are still cool with him. It’s so disturbing. An ability to act pleasant doesn’t make it ok to be evil and do evil things to people.

Cam
Cam
8 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Also, I’m so sorry your ex wasn’t taken down sooner. Enablers are really something else.

Cam
Cam
8 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

I don’t know much about the Masterson story either but my first thought was, “Wow, it’s hard enough getting a conviction for rape so it must’ve been really bad.” Then I saw he got 30 years and was speechless. Those poor women.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

I think it’s darker than just denial in some cases. Some people who internalized childhood abuse may have a tendency to “obey” the whims of any subsequent abusers they encounter, even to the point of serving up their own children as human sacrifices as if appeasing some volcano god. They may not even know this about themselves but just suddenly turn into Manchurian candidates who flip into their previous programming in response to learning that someone is dangerous. It might explain the behavior of some “hybristophiliacs” or prison groupies.

I wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t seen this happen more than once. As I’ve mentioned before, three people at work “flipped” on me after I cooperated with the prosecution against a violent workplace stalker. All three generally posed as libby and woke and didn’t seem like the types who’d become so overtly misogynistic and victim blaming– yet that’s exactly what happened. Two hadn’t even previously liked the perp but, all the same, they suddenly began defending the stalker and spying for him to the point that the the head of SWAT had to threaten them with witness tampering charges. I was morbidly curious about why these people suddenly turned flying monkey so, right in the middle of the shitstorm, I “polled” these folks about their childhoods. True to form, all had grown up with domestic violence of some sort. God knows why they answered my prying questions because they couldn’t have thought I was asking out of the kindness of my heart. It’s like they’d all gone into some weird loopy trance from the first moment the scandal broke.

I also think my ex-MIL must have witnessed or experienced sexual abuse as a child because she remained devoted to a new age yoga cult even after the founder was exposed in global headlines as a serial child rapist. I started to wonder if she had some attraction to people and cabals like that so that, rather than running away upon sensing something “off,” she tended to move towards. She also insisted on singing this infamous medieval French “gang rape” song as a lullaby for all new babies in the extended family. She’d been called out for doing it by several people but then would sing the same song again for the next baby she was handed. It was truly demented, like she felt charged with the duty of “normalizing rape” for every subsequent generation. What really sealed my impression that her problem went far beyond just “denial” was that nothing made her angrier than “victims who tell.” The subject came up a lot because I was working as an advocate for survivors of DV for several years and it’s interesting how bent out of shape she’d become, even getting nasty and personal if any of these abstract cases or situations were mentioned in passing. I began realizing that she’d been trained as an “enforcer of silence” just like the freaks I’d worked with before I got married.

I doubt my MIL ever became a sexual abuser in her own right, though her constant meddling in the personal life of her son and competition with every partner he’d had since high school was definitely covertly incestuous. Instead I would call her a kind of “proxy abuser”– almost a pimp. For instance, when her son was sexually assaulted as a teen by a family friend– a friend who happened to belong to the same new age cult as ex-MIL– she exhorted FW to “just forgive and let it go.” My guess is that her radar had long picked up on the danger posed by this family friend but she’d “served up” her teenage son and encouraged the friendship all the same.

If anyone ever tried to talk about this kind of reenactment to my exMIL, I’d sure she’d fly into hysterics of denial like one of the robots from Stepford Wives going on the fritz because there was something more than simple blind denial going on– she was actually culpable. My guess is that some people are turned into these kinds of proxies/pimps because they learned in childhood that it’s a way to grovel for amnesty from adult abusers. They compulsively throw other victims into abusers’ paths to remain safe themselves. The whole perv ecosystem depends on that type.

Katiepig
Katiepig
8 months ago

This is so interesting. You know, the friend who defended my ex so much… my ex husband told me once that he thought she had been sexually abused as a child. His story was that her husband suspected it, and had talked to him about it. It would explain a lot of her behavior that was completely bizarre to me and seemed really out of character for her.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  Katiepig

It sounds like she was subconsciously pimping. Search Psychology Today for the article on “the murderer’s apprentice.” I think a few of the categories of “criminal sidekick” described might be a close fit for what you witnessed.

Emma C
Emma C
8 months ago

You’re the first person who expressed something I’ve believed in for a long time — the proxy abuser. I felt one of my parents was a proxy abuser.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  Emma C

Abusers always weigh benefit vs. risk and tend not to like getting busted. Consequently some of the most lasting damage is done by abusers who never even take their hands out of their pockets or lift a finger. I think proxies are in that category but even more diabolical because they enjoy vicarious victimization.

Motherchumper99
Motherchumper99
8 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

Literally horrifying, Katie Pig.

Formerchumpnowbride
Formerchumpnowbride
8 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

This is why mandatory reporter laws had to be passed. People were being told about things but they looked the other way or plain just couldn’t believe that charming person could possibly be doing that. I remember growing up before those laws, the sheer number of kids I knew who were. Without a shadow of a doubt, being abused should horrify everyone. But small towns were notorious for looking away. People don’t do the right things even when the evidence is right there. Also I would not be surprised if their cult that begins with an s wrote the statements for them. It doesnt excuse them, but it does speak to their credibility in anything else.

VulcanChump
VulcanChump
8 months ago
Reply to  KatiePig

I’ve been thinking the same thing you and your fella did – there’s a level of depravity that the prosecution must have been able to prove that I’m really glad I’m not directly privy to.

Spoonriver
Spoonriver
8 months ago

Wasn’t Ashton a cheater?

Ain't It a Shame
Ain't It a Shame
8 months ago
Reply to  Spoonriver

That’s what Demi Moore said and it sounds like on at least one occasion he pressured her into sexual activities (group sex) that she wasn’t interested in. Like some cheaters and liars, Kutcher just curated a good public image over the years.

SortOfOverIt
SortOfOverIt
8 months ago
Reply to  Spoonriver

Yes. He and Demi had an open marriage of sorts. I am not sure if they ever went public with what exactly their agreement was. I think they had threesomes and but then he was caught out with a woman by himself. And as it was a problem, my assumption is the agreement was they would get together with others only when together.

I Count
I Count
8 months ago
Reply to  SortOfOverIt

Ahh the old Poly and cheating.

Happy again
Happy again
8 months ago

Very well said by Christina Ricci and CL. In my case, the OW and her oddly complicit husband are part of a tightknit parents clique in our children’s school where they are doted on as the most financially successful couple of the group who treats everyone to parties, trips, fancy gatherings. It was both mind-boggling and sobering to see the clique stand fully by the side of the OW even though some of the clique’s children were friends with my children at the time. The pain inflicted on our whole family by this transparent affair in this small community was made even worse by the loyalty of this group to this conniving woman. I quickly distanced my children and myself from the entire group. Crises reveal character – not just our own in the strength to overcome this and that of the cheater but also by the choices of the people who are in the know.

Mehitable
Mehitable
8 months ago
Reply to  Happy again

If you have money or you are seen as one of the “upper classes”, that successful upwardly mobile, achieving class of overarching assholes….you can get away with almost anything. I don’t want to be political here but there is a certain politician we all know who routinely touches and sniffs children and I only know of one person who pushed his hand away. This same guy showered with his own daughter as a child by her admission. Everyone looks the other way. Both parties, all of DC.

Claire
Claire
8 months ago
Reply to  Happy again

Yeah wait till she starts fucking their husbands (probably is already) then watch that clique with popcorn in hand.

Hope you’re doing well now you’ve let go of the frenemies x

Elsie
Elsie
8 months ago

People are who they are behind closed doors and in the big picture of things.

I certainly experienced this sort of thing, “But he’s such a good preacher.” I got to the point that when they said something like that, I’d say something, “Well, that’s your view of things. My experience as his wife was very different.”

I mentioned that situation to a friend of mine who is a pastor/therapist at another church. He wisely observed that judging someone by their public persona is dangerous and is actually called out in the Bible, a.k.a. the wolf in sheep’s clothing. He also said that valuing a man for his preaching while excluding his wife’s suffering because of his bad behavior is just evil.

Yes, just evil.

Shadow
Shadow
8 months ago
Reply to  Elsie

I’ve been thinking about the content of people’s characters, and remembered that Alexander Sholzenitzin ( think I’ve spelt that wrong but we know who I mean) was right in that the line between good and evil crosses every human heart. Sadly, I’ve come to the conclusion that most people do not have enough good in their hearts.
They might be neutral, so the line crosses at the exact halfway point but, when it comes to serving their own best interests or because they’re the “go-along-to-get-along” types and they lack the moral strength and courage, that line will shift, maybe temporally, so that there is more evil than good in their hearts. This can manifest in looking the other way ( “all that it takes for evil to thrive is that good men/women do nothing”-Edmund Burke), in victim-blaming, in supporting perps or they may even degenerate to joining in with the evil and becoming active evil-doers themselves, as many did in Nazi Germany and Stalin’s USSR.
Maybe it’s because I’ve been betrayed that I perceive people this way now, but whatever the reason, it scares, angers and saddens me. I can only pray to God I don’t go that way myself though, because we are all at risk of it. Please God I will always have too much empathy and compassion to have my line shift towards more evil in my heart.

Grandma Chump
Grandma Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  Shadow

Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn (I looked it up.) You’re right, I knew who you meant. Love your analysis.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  Shadow

Shadow– I always have to Google, cut and paste Slavic and Russian names. I have to do this for my own doctor’s name every time I text her because I can never get the spelling right.

Anyway, do you remember the bit in Gulag Archipelago where (Google! Cut! Paste!) Solzhenitsyn describes how the murderous system of informants in the gulag was finally called to a halt? He tells of how there was a sudden influx of Ukrainian prisoners who immediately organized and systematically set about killing off– one after another– all the work camp’s informants, thus ending the violent tyranny of the camp guards. Solzhenitsyn expresses a bit of ambivalence about the event– on the one hand he doesn’t want to condone wholesale killing. But on the other, all the persecution, violence and torture in the gulag boiled down to the fucking informants, without whom the guards had no power.

Again, I find it helps to understand things better to look at logical extremes. In this case, fuck the informants, enablers and flying monkeys. Without them, abusers would have no power. I think of this every time some side piece whines that they “didn’t make vows and aren’t responsible” or a Swiss type blathers about “forgiveness.” Proverbially speaking, they deserve the Ukrainian program.

knittedrobin
knittedrobin
8 months ago

Wow. What an amazing post.

Elsie
Elsie
8 months ago
Reply to  Shadow

I agree with what you said here. I’m older, and I think looking back, I was horribly naive. I’m not mean, and I’m not a fighter. I basically let my ex run over me repeatedly for decades, hoping it would eventually get better because I was doing all I could with him. I didn’t see the evil until we had been separated for quite a while. It was actually my attorney who first called it out. He also observed that if I had been married to a principled man of character, I wouldn’t have ended up in his office. Even his own attorney figured out who was who, pointing out to my STBX that I hadn’t done anything to deserve what happened and how badly the divorce was going.

I’m a professional educator, so if anything, I err on the side of empathy and compassion. And yes, I hope that I stay that way. As my twenty-something daughter has said, “I’d rather have a mother who loves too much than a mother who loves too little.”

Unicornomore
Unicornomore
8 months ago
Reply to  Elsie

“I didn’t see the evil until we had been separated for quite a while.”

Yes. I was a frog in a pot who didnt admit how bad he was to me until after he was dead

portia
portia
8 months ago
Reply to  Elsie

I worked in education, too. I had statistics in grad school. I have heard for years that 1 in 3 females have experienced some type of inappropriate sexual behavior from men they know as family or friends of family, or authority figures in their lives. From young childhood thru young adulthood. Doesn’t include spousal abuse.
What I always wondered was if reality is even more appalling than 1 out of EVERY 3? How much is never reported, how much is never believed? I don’t know the stats for young males, but I would guess it’s close to the same. Young, vulnerable, abuser is “credible”, who will believe?
I know there can be false reports, but in light of what we have discovered from the churches and scouting organizations alone, why do we not at least initially give the “victim” report some believability?

Not all abuse leaves forensic evidence. It seems to me safety and therapy should be the first line of defense. I know I saw my father’s violent temper threaten my mother, I heard some of their fights. My mother never admitted any of it happened. She would always tell me I was overreacting, or misreporting, and my father was a good father. I would have hated to have a bad one. Later she admitted he wasn’t a good husband and divorced him after 40 years. But I never felt she “allowed” herself to believe just how bad he was, or what mental abuse can do long term. I have also had family say things like “Surely he wasn’t that bad,” or “you must have misunderstood”. I got tired of it, figured out I was on my own. Started planning my escape. Unfortunately, my father was not the only bad man in my life. Tolerance of behavior that should not be tolerated is high on my list of things I won’t accept in a friend. We may not be able to change some things, but when people say things like “he’s such a good teacher/cop/preacher/volunteer/politician . . .”and insist on overlooking or denying his obviously bad behaviors — I close the door. I may talk about the weather, or give directions if they are lost, but they will never be a friend of mine.

MightyWarrior
MightyWarrior
8 months ago
Reply to  portia

I never reported the abuse by my music teacher from age 11-13. He was and is still worshipped in my home town. He died in his late 70s, 4 years ago. No one would have believed me. He abused others too, including my friend with whom he embarked on a full sexual affair as soon as she was 16. To detract attention from himself, he pimped her out to a man, another teacher, who was then in his 70s. Her parents appeared clueless in spite of their education and status in our small local fishpond. My parents saw anyone in a position of authority as so far superior to them, that they would never believe any ill of him. This all happened in the 1970s in the UK. In the 2000s, a young woman reported him to the police. My mother told me about it, saying ‘she’s a liar and no better than a prostitute, no one believes her’. I could have spoken up then. I didn’t although I thought about it. I was profoundly ashamed and it has taken a lot of therapy for me to talk about it. I told the ex. He used it as evidence of my ‘craziness’. There was no empathy there. No survey can truly reflect the very complex feelings of the victims. I do some voluntary work in this area now. I can see that victims are carefully selected by the predators. The latter smell the tiniest trickle of blood from the victim and start to groom. The abuser in my situation could see that my parents were in awe of him and that I was neglected in many ways. He kept his abuse of me at a level where he could say that I had misunderstood what he was doing – he was correcting my technique, he could say (I won’t go into details of what he was doing because it’s unpleasant). I look back at that little girl with huge sadness. I loved playing the instrument I played. However I could never fully relax because I didn’t know what was going to happen when. I was scared, alone and felt that I had to solve the problem myself. 11 is so little! He’s in my mind because of a sad event involving his adult son. I listen to the praise, including from my mother who tells me repeatedly what good friends she is with his wife and was with him (they exchange Christmas cards). Would my life have been better if I had said something at the time or later? Sadly, I don’t think it would have been. If the police had contacted me once a historical allegation had been made, I would have told them. But they didn’t investigate with any of his former pupils. The truth is that his reputation was so hallowed that there was no appetitive to dig deep. The lives of others could well have been better if I had spoken out. I feel guilty about that.

Orlando
Orlando
8 months ago

People want to believe that the person they see in front of them is the whole person. In one of my past jobs, I was sitting in on interviews with a very charming witty man. I made some comment as such to my mentor who looked at me funny & said something like “you do realize he is a very violent offender who would likely hurt you if found alone with you?” I then read his case file afterwards (I should of read it first). He was evil. I am disappointed with the support Masterson has received from people attesting to his good person, his TV persona & disregarding his crimes, his “evil face” & his victims.

Mehitable
Mehitable
8 months ago
Reply to  Orlando

I’ve always believed that charming people are generally charming because they WANT something. They figured out how to get it. Charm is a skill set to appeal to an intended victim.

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  Orlando

Ted Bundy was quite charming as well.

Orlando
Orlando
8 months ago
Reply to  Amazon Chump

Yes, I heard Bundy was also charming.

GroovyGroveJuiceCo
GroovyGroveJuiceCo
8 months ago
Reply to  Amazon Chump

The crazy thing is that gone is the myth of the creepy shadowy figure lurking in a dark alley. Although it’s not always the case, it’s the people you least expect that are the worst ones and usually they either a public figure or someone you know well that has the trustworthy, kind and charming persona. Narcissists are the worst kind because they’ve manipulated people into thinking that they are like that so when they are caught, people struggle to believe that such a wonderful person could do such awful things.

That’s why when I hear these morons trying to police females actions, clothing and bodies, I really see red because no person asks to be sexually abused or assaulted and they are usually abused by someone that they know and trust very well or someone that is considered trustworthy, not because of what they were wearing, how they were acting etc – all those awful things like to judge women against when they go through something like that.

With these Hollywood types they all stick up for each other and wield a lot of power, so it’s not that the victims decided to report it now, it was probably covered up for that long, then when someone has the guts to decide “hey this is not ok” and report it, the legal process takes a long time before any outcome happens.

Look at Harvey Weinstein for instance. It was an open secret that he was a serial predator yet no one did anything about it and the ones who did or the women who did had their careers ruined, were subject to threats and had their families threatened. When it came out and he was prosecuted, many prominent celebrities still defended him and portrayed him as this great guy and victim blamed the women.

With mindsets like these, is it any wonder survivors of sexual abuse/assault don’t come forward and report it.

Apidae
Apidae
8 months ago
Reply to  Amazon Chump

He was not. The “Ted Bundy was a hot ladies’ man” story was one the media at the time peddled to make the story sell. In real life, he wasn’t “charming” or even attractive, he just played on women’s socialization to be nice and helpful to men when asked. His girlfriend repeatedly tried to get the police to take a look at him.

Cam
Cam
8 months ago
Reply to  Amazon Chump

I’ve read a lot about Bundy and the thing that stood out to me the most was some people found him charming and others were repulsed by him. Like, they immediately clocked him as a lizard in a human suit and couldn’t wait to get away from him.

I’ve seen similar reactions in people meeting sociopaths for the first time. I’ve always wondered how some people see through the act so quickly while others don’t.

Brit
Brit
8 months ago
Reply to  Amazon Chump

So is my my cheater.

People would tell me how lucky I was to be married to him.

Juniper
Juniper
8 months ago
Reply to  Brit

Me too, Brit. I heard this too. How lucky I was.

justme
justme
8 months ago
Reply to  Brit

Everyone , and I mean everyone in my life, would comment on how well we fit together. He was a “good guy”. Solid, we “suited each other”. Gods save me from “good guys”. He was totally committed to his image management. That was it. Nothing else mattered to him.

Chump of Ages
Chump of Ages
8 months ago
Reply to  justme

Me too. People think I’m so lucky to have such a nice, sweet husband. It still boggles my mind what he was actually capable of – I think that’s been the hardest part of this whole awful ordeal – coming to terms what he did.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
8 months ago
Reply to  justme

Same.

I Count
I Count
8 months ago
Reply to  justme

Same.

susie lee
susie lee
8 months ago

“Because to not believe is to realize that they, Splendid People and Good Judges of Character, were mistaken. And then the world becomes a very scary place. ”

This is the same as how the folks who chumps thought were friends behave, they take the cheater back and buy the shared responsibility bilge. And I do believe it is steeped in fear, fear that if the chump was a decent person then this can happen to them because they are a decent person, and fear that they got taken in just like the chump did.

There is absolutely not excuse for anyone in a church, or school, or any institution that covers for or hides the crime. Every one in that institution needs to be flushed out and held accountable.

SortOfOverIt
SortOfOverIt
8 months ago
Reply to  susie lee

“and I do believe it is steeped in fear, fear that if the chump was a decent person then this can happen to them because they are a decent person, and fear that they got taken in just like the chump did.”

Yes, much like the women who ask what a rape victim was wearing or why the victim was alone with the rapist to begin with. They want to think that they can AVOID the same fate by not wearing a miniskirt. The people who defend cheaters and think “oh, there are 2 sides to every story” desperately want to think that the Chump did SOMETHING to provoke it or deserve it. They don’t want to believe that chumps were blindsided, because that means they too could be and that is scary to them.

Mehitable
Mehitable
8 months ago
Reply to  SortOfOverIt

This is so true!!!! The “it was all YOUR fault so it can’t happen to ME” school of thought.

Formerchumpnowbride
Formerchumpnowbride
8 months ago
Reply to  susie lee

Yeah. They have to discern what you did to deserve such treatment because the knowledge that bad things can happen to good people without warning causes serious cognitive dissonance in their minds. They can vary, from completely ignoring the situation (not wanting to ever talk about that difficult subject) to straight up blaming chumps. I would like to say I didn’t give a little smirk when one of the ones who blamed me ended up divorced not long after she said I was too frigid for my ex. But I did. I’m human.

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
8 months ago

I’m human, too. I would like to say that I don’t wish for schadenfreude, but I do. I’m human.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
8 months ago

Looking down the road, I see a not so little anymore girl becoming aware of what her father did, and how everyone around her knew it but she didn’t understand it yet, and how much other people were harmed, and how so many adults around her clearly condoned it. All these excuses about her needing her father at home will then look like the justifying bullshit they are.

It’s all manipulation. I don’t believe for a second that any of those people truly thought it was so vital for him to be at home with her. What they thought was that saying so would help him avoid increased consequences.

What I see is how a person who is willing to torture women sexually isn’t a great person to leave all alone with a child.

What I see is a child being used and exploited by adults to assist a person who tortures women in lessening their consequences.

What I see is a child for whom it’s impossible to escape living with this heinousness for the rest of her life.

Using a child to attempt to get a rapist released from jail early tells us all we need to know about the moral failure of the people who are exploiting that child. The rest of the conversation is just a bunch of specifics about how much the adults around her are harming her, and in what ways.

The secret basement of each of these adults is likely to be chock o block full of similar bullshit. Based on behavior (being the best predictor of future behavior) alone, if I was an investigator, that’s where my light would point next.

Samsara
Samsara
8 months ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Perfect, Amiisfree. Exactly all of this.

The child is merely a prop in the parents’ macabre “reality denial” show for impression managment. Grotesque doesn’t begin to cover it. I agree wholeheartedly with CL’s assessment.

I’m throughly sick of the “he’s such a good father” / “she is such a good mother” bullshit. It doesn’t make you a good person just because you gave birth , feed a child and/or do homework!!

Noticing that today a bunch of old videos turned up showing Kutcher and Masterson making a $20 bet that Kutcher would French Kiss a then 14 year old Mila Kunis. Also more about how Kutcher had eyes on Hilary Duff as a 15 year old and how he was (at the age of 25) waiting for her to turn 18. The “support” looks quite different in light of these facts.

By their actions shall we know them.

OHFFS
OHFFS
8 months ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

“What I see is a child being used and exploited by adults to assist a person who tortures women in lessening their consequences.”

Quoted for truth. Great post, Ami.

Ain't It a Shame
Ain't It a Shame
8 months ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Well said. What stability and protection does this child have, if the adults in her life have no qualms about supporting a rapist?

Diane J. Strickland
Diane J. Strickland
8 months ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Thank you for this clarity.

Searching for inner strength
Searching for inner strength
8 months ago

So many people I know still don’t think cheating is abuse or abusive. They are the people who go to “things must not have been good” arguments. I must have drove him to it. Ah, until it happens to them.

It’s cognitive dissonance.

I’m well over 3 yrs since I found out the truth, and I am still having flashbacks and nightmares. I can’t get that cuntasaurous and ditch pig out of my head. I can’t understand how I stayed with that creep after he invited that hoewrecker without her husband onto our boat for a sailing club week in the Caribbean and again for the Heineken race week in sxm. I can’t get the images of their behaviour out if my minds eye or the twinge of his eyes when he was convincing me that I was just jealous, insecure, tired, irrational, making something out of nothing. If this isn’t trauma from abuse then I may just be crazy. I am frozen and struggling and so very much alone. I don’t trust anyone.

MightyWarrior
MightyWarrior
8 months ago

Searching, I’m 4 years out and still feel as you do, less often but the trauma remains. I am fortunate in being able to be completely no contact. Two of my professional colleagues are moving to work at the law firm that acted for the ex on his divorce. His enabler and close friend (who I never took to) is a partner at that firm. I found myself telling one of the colleagues that the firm had acted for the ex and not to believe what her new professional partner may say about me. And then I thought ‘what are you doing! You don’t need to justify yourself.’ I know the ex told everyone that I was crazy and that he had put up with my madness for years. And that thought still sends me into a cold sweat of anxiety and panic. I’ve been watching the series ‘Love + Death’ about Betty Gore’s murder and Candy Montgomery’s trial. The casual approach to betrayal is terrifying. Actions have consequences, and affairs are not the stuff of slapstick comedy or ‘a bit of fun in the side’. They are profoundly damaging to those who are betrayed. I’m scarred by what happened to me and that will last for the rest of my life, even as I learn to live with the pain.

Searching for inner strength
Searching for inner strength
8 months ago
Reply to  MightyWarrior

Thank you… and to all commenters for your ongoing support…

MightyWarrior
MightyWarrior
8 months ago
Reply to  MightyWarrior

Now, Candy Montgomery is one therapist who I would not like to run across!

OHFFS
OHFFS
8 months ago

Searching, you are definitely not crazy. Your reaction is normal. You have been thoroughly gaslighted as well as betrayed, which takes a lot of time to recover from. To add to that, your pain is being dismissed by the people who support the cheater. To get unstuck, you may need to banish those people from your life as much as possible.

You aren’t alone. We are here and we get it. ❤

Mehitable
Mehitable
8 months ago

I don’t know if I can say anything that might help or that you haven’t heard before, but know that you were the victim of a very BAD PERSON. We’re not taught to think like this, we’re taught that everyone has a “reason” or that people are “redeemable” or that we just don’t “understand” them or we somehow brought it on or helped create the situation….when the reality is….some people are just BAD PEOPLE. Sharks bite. It’s what they do. I hope when you think of it as him being just a really BAD PERSON….you might see him as more unique than most people who really do mean well, but are just weak in the face of evil. The overwhelming majority of people are not going to do the kinds of things that man did, but….they might look the other way because it’s easier and safer for them. There are people of integrity and courage out there, sometimes we only need one or two in our lives. I just don’t want this man, on top of everything else he did, to destroy your sense of being able to trust the world at all. There are many good people out there, but some times it just takes time and testing to tell. Giving you a hug with my frontal lobes 🙂

Juniper
Juniper
8 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Love this comment, Mehitable. Spoke to me.

2xchump🚫again
2xchump🚫again
8 months ago

You are not at all alone. We are all here for you. You are heard. Flash backs are when our minds feel safe enough to releasing that horror out of our lives. I say to myself after these horror replays…you did all you knew how to do, you are safe now, you made good decisions however long it took, you are safe now..It may take me a long time to heal, but talking, writing, sharing here, it helps us all. Keep on with us. I needed to hear this. I must learn to trust myself again. Compassion for what we have been through. We loved with our whole hearts. That is a very good thing in a world of cheaters who cannot.

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
8 months ago

I also agree with Amiisfree. You are heard and your pain is validated. If you’re like me, it will take you much longer than 3 years to ‘trust’. And when you do, you still won’t want to trust. Like you, my ‘ditch pig’ and his ‘cuntasaurous’ were forced down my throat and I was made out to be jealous, insecure, and making a hoopla where supposedly none existed, only to find out that there was certainly a hoopla and I was being gaslighted. That screwed up my head screwed for years. Talk about the self-doubt! Eventually, I pulled my head out of the blender. Eventually, I learned to love myself and trust my own judgement. Eventually, I wanted to have a relationship with a man again, but I still had trust issues. But I knew that if I had a fleeting chance to have a good relationship, I had to force myself to trust again. You’re not there yet. Take your time to learn to trust yourself. Take your time to love yourself. And then someday, even if the next one is untrustworthy, you’ll know you’ll survive.

ISawTheLight
ISawTheLight
8 months ago
Reply to  Amazon Chump

“I was made out to be jealous, insecure, and making a hoopla where supposedly none existed, only to find out that there was certainly a hoopla and I was being gaslighted. That screwed up my head screwed for years.”

This is very well put, and exactly what happened to me. I still don’t think I can trust a romantic partner, and it’s been 5 years since D-day. I’m happier single.

Still a Chump
Still a Chump
8 months ago

I can really empathize with you and want you to know that Searching. I can relate to the loneliness and not trusting.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
8 months ago

I feel deeply for you. I don’t have useful words, just loads of empathy, and a desire to acknowledge and validate you and offer whatever small support can find its way across the electrosphere.

I know what it feels like to share this kind of pain out into any visible space. You are heard and your feelings are valid and reasonable and meaningful.

Jaded
Jaded
8 months ago

It sounds like they are defending the guy they knew not the guy he is. I haven’t followed the story. Didn’t these two push “ The Sound Of Freedom”? Very odd indeed. I’m waiting for “The Sound Of Freedom” and “Oppenheimer” to be released on streaming services. I made it through “A Serbian Film” already.

MichelleShocked
MichelleShocked
8 months ago

We’ve seen this before with creepo rapists like Bill Cosby. To the vast majority, they are kind and “great dads” and even philanthropic. Bill Cosby had the world believing he was “America’s Dad.” And this was even when the kids on his show were running away (like Lisa Bonet). Cosby just doubled down and made them out to be the problem. “You know me! I’m sweet and lovely and kind. She is CRAZY.” (made up quote for effect). That carefully crafted impression management makes it so much harder on the victims. No one believes the victims… and the creepo knows this and made it happen and is smiling about how their sinister manipulation and gaslighting works so well. Hopefully this court case is helping make bigger changes — Hollywood types are finally getting a real hard look at what they’ve been getting away with — abuses in the shadows because they are beloved actors with shiny fake reputations.

As for Danny Masterson, I LOVED what the judge had to say (a very clear “fuck you, you lying piece of shit”): Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Charlaine Olmedo threw the book at him: “Mr. Masterson, I know that you’re sitting here steadfast in your claims of innocence, and thus no doubt feeling victimized by a justice system that has failed you, but Mr. Masterson, you are not the victim here.”

Hurray for BRAVE Christina Ricci! Ashton and Mila need to wake the fuck up.

MyRedSandals
MyRedSandals
8 months ago

I wonder how long it will take for Prisoner Masterson to suffer the same fate as his victims.

Viktoria
Viktoria
8 months ago

Yeah this was my story (Wool’s first 2 paragraphs).

Image: He’s SUCH a great guy! SUCH a great father! Such a devoted husband! So affable!
Reality: sordid, selfish, secret, sexual double life.

Formerchumpnowbride
Formerchumpnowbride
8 months ago
Reply to  Viktoria

Mine was everyone’s favorite teacher. Shortly after our divorce, I went to the school for our child’s parents day. I don’t know how many other parents felt the need to gush about how awesome he is with the kids. I had a mind to say “as long as it isn’t his own” but just brushed them off. I was still not at meh but didn’t feel like trauma dumping a stranger I would never see again. To the world he is the perfect father and husband material. The problem was he only was willing to maintain that mask to outsiders. He was a shit husband and he is a somewhat shit dad, but as long as he can convince people outside his family that he is some sort of God and “#goals”, he feels great.

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
8 months ago

After my ex retired, he decided to work part-time and taught at the local community college. He was LOVED by all of his students and fellow teachers. One time, after my first DDay when I decided to forgive him and ‘save my marriage’, a young teacher colleague of his was gushing to me about how wonderful my husband was, and ‘you’re so lucky!’ I had never met her, but I didn’t refrain. I just said, “You’re not married to him.” Obviously, I projected such a tone and demeanor that she shut up immediately, and she and her boyfriend made a quick exit stage left. My husband dared not say a single word to me.

DBleighm
DBleighm
8 months ago

If Ashton and Mila believe he’s such a good guy, why not let their daughters stay the night with him? Bet that would change their tune real fast.

Zip
Zip
8 months ago
Reply to  DBleighm

Read his letter. He said he completely trust the rapist with his kids.

Katiepig
Katiepig
8 months ago
Reply to  DBleighm

My experience tells me they would let their daughter stay with him. They’d take that risk to show everyone how right they are.

Luziana
Luziana
8 months ago

Mila and Ashton weren’t the only ones from the TV show to write letters, just the ones who run an actual charity for SA survivors that now seems like a sham.

Most everyone on That 70’s Show except Topher Grace wrote a letter like that. He seems to have avoided being close to Masterson at all, and was criticized at the time for not attending fun Scientology events with them.

Like Lisa Bonet was called ungrateful and snobbish for not groveling enough for Bill Cosby, who was lecturing young boys on how to wear their pants and putting out books on having a great Marriage while having a weekly rape appointment at the Playboy Mansion.

This is what I have to say to Bijou Phillips. Sorry your Dad was a drug addled POS. Your child was conceived in an interim of twenty years between those rapes and now where your husband should have already been in jail with ten years to go. He got to have a career, build a family and home on borrowed time. So he’s now one of the minuscule numbers of rapists who actually serve time.

It’s a consequence, not an injustice. Deal with it.

Cam
Cam
8 months ago
Reply to  Luziana

Mila was also 14 when she played his girlfriend on the show. Ashton was 18. Creepy.

❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
❤️ Velvet Hammer ❤️
8 months ago

Predators, Pedophiles, Rapists, and Other Sex Offenders by Dr. Ann Salters is a great read.

Cheaters and side pieces suffer from the same cognitive dissonance, thinking that their behavior is not proof of who they are but caused by their victims, and somehow proof of who their victims are.

I stayed for twenty seven years because of all the The Nice Guy behavior on the Pro list, and used the Nice Guy Pro list to dismiss and accept what was on the Con list. It’s only recently that I’ve realized that there were many things on the Con list that should have been on a Stop Sign list, or a Leave Now list.

Predators: Pedophiles, Rapists, And Other Sex Offenders https://a. co/d/9WyDqkQ

Ted Bundy, who had a longtime girlfriend who had a daughter, comes to mind as another example of the walking dichotomy, the But He Was Nice To Me defense conundrum.

For me, what’s on the Con list takes precedence over what’s on the Nice Guy/Gal Pro list now.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
8 months ago

I just listened to an interview of Dr. Anna Salter on YT. “When smart people do stupid things, powerful forces are involved.” It’s called evil. Worth listening to though disturbing.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
8 months ago

Thanks again for the recommendation VH. It’s been on my list of books to purchase. Seems like a hard read and I have to prepare myself mentally. I only recently saw the 2015 movie “Spotlight” about the Catholic Church’s coverup of child rapists that went back decades.

Shadow
Shadow
8 months ago

I’m reminded of a song that was a big hit in the UK in 1990 . I can’t remember the band but it was called “Just be Good to Me” .
“People always talk about reputations. I don’t care what you do to them, just be good to me!”
So cheat, molest, rape but treat me well and that’s all that matters? Hmmm, right then! Dear oh dear!

Luziana
Luziana
8 months ago
Reply to  Shadow

Better be Good to Me by Tina Turner is a way better option!

Formerchumpnowbride
Formerchumpnowbride
8 months ago

It is very difficult to deal with this type of abuse when their impression management is so good that people are saying how amazing it must be being married to him all the time. It cranks up the gaslighting to new heights. If everyone else days he is an amazing husband and father, what is wrong with me that I am not seeing this? It is torture.
This is why I never say this shit to people. I keep my opinions on other people’s relationships to my darn self. I will never be used for a fw’s image management ever again.

Zip
Zip
8 months ago

I’ve gone so far as to think that if someone’s husband seems amazing he’s probably the opposite. I’m much more trusting of a very average or below average seeming spouse. The great guy perfect pants type make me suspicious now. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
I was also always told how lucky I was. I wasn’t so lucky!
With FW#, I really loved having other people around because I was always treated much much better publicly.
FW#2, was all around perfection until OW came on the scene.

FYI
FYI
8 months ago

Wow. This is a partial description from one of Masterson’s victims:
“… she said the actor pulled a gun from his nightstand drawer and ordered her to ‘shut the fuck up’ as he held it up.”

But, hey, he’s been a “great role model” to Mila Kunis, so it’s all good.

Ms. Done With Him
Ms. Done With Him
8 months ago

Unfortunately, none of this surprises me. It disgusts me, but absolutely doesn’t surprise me.

I watched for 30 years as most of FW’s family ignored the fact his youngest brother was a incestuous pedophile who had a relationship with his underage cousin (she was between the ages of 14 – 18 when he was in his late 20’s) and had also molested his 4 yo niece.

Another of his brothers went to jail for 25 years for raping his children, including his 2 yo daughter. I’ll never forget that the family blamed his ex-girlfriend saying she lied / was jealous because he cheated on / left her for OW.
My children were NEVER allowed to be left unsupervised with anyone who was an apologist for these disgusting monsters.

It should come as no surprise that FW was 24 and I was 15 when we started “dating” and our marriage blew up over an (at least) emotional affair with a 20 year old (he was 53). Since our separation, he’s also started spending a lot of time with his youngest brother again. They definitely deserve each other.

NoLongerChump
NoLongerChump
8 months ago

I’m reminded of my ex-fiance, whom before D-Day would hold her self-identified religion up high, and exalt some long dead great uncle whom fought in WWII that wouldn’t stand for lewd images on the side of his war planes.

Was that true? Who knows, it was just talk. Apparently what she really valued was doing exactly what she wanted, regardless of who it hurt. Gotta talk up those principles ya know.

SortOfOverIt
SortOfOverIt
8 months ago

Honestly, I don’t even understand the point of the letters. I know these letters are commonly used. But for example, Ashton is a man. Danny has been convicted of raping two women. CONVICTED. Not just accused. The letter may as well of said “He was great to ME. He never raped ME.” Well, he seems to like raping women, Ashton, so you would be pretty safe. You aren’t his demographic. I just think the letters are dumb. Lots of serial killers had families that had no idea their husband/father was a monster.

All the accolades of him being a great dad? His victims also had dads that likely read bedtime stories and helped with homework too. They were once little girls too. Their dads cared about them and Danny raped them. I’d argue that him being a great friend and dad makes his crimes worse, he knows the difference between right and wrong and did it anyway.

Then Mila and Ashton come out to apologize, and in reading between the lines they sort of say “His family ASKED us to write it” (well, you could have politely DECLINED). And “it was meant for the judge to read in regards to sentencing, not to question the validity of the jury’s decision” So you aren’t questioning whether he raped these women, you just hope that your letter will help your friend get a lighter sentence for it. That really doesn’t sound any better.

Also, in the video Mila looks absolutely PISSED off. It made me wonder what she is so mad about? Is she mad that she got outed? Or does she feel entitled to have written it in the first place? “We stand with all victims of rape, always have and always will”. Except these 2 victims, huh? It’s so hard to get a rape conviction, and these 2 women did, and then they got to see all his friends come out and try to help him get a lighter sentence. It’s disgusting.

I think no matter what, writing that letter was the wrong call. But given that Ashton has done so much charity work with victims of sex trafficking, it makes him look even worse. “Let’s fight sex trafficking because it’s wrong, but if women are raped by my FRIEND, then it’s not so bad and he should get a light sentence” EWWWW.

Cam
Cam
8 months ago
Reply to  SortOfOverIt

I’ve shared before on this blog that I’m a cult survivor. A lot of damning allegations have recently come out about the cult, and predictably all the members have risen up to defend it. Their responses are absolutely infuriating. Imagine a horde of people (particularly men) claiming the cult leaders couldn’t possibly be rapists because “they were always nice to ME!”

No shit, you idiots. You’re men and their targets are women. Of course they’re not groping you, and even if you were their target, they wouldn’t do it in public anyway!

ExWifeOfSparkleDick
ExWifeOfSparkleDick
8 months ago
Reply to  SortOfOverIt

What I thought when I saw Ashton and Mila’s video: they’re actors. Really good ones. They’ve memorized a script and are performing. It’s what they do for a living. And they make a bazillion dollars doing the acting. What if the judge saw them acting out their letter? Would he have been convinced?
Makes me wonder about their so called “charity”. Is that all an act, too? How much you wanna bet?

Rarity
Rarity
8 months ago

I just saw Masterson’s wife played the insane, murderous biological mother of Hope on Raising Hope.

Not much of an acting stretch.

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
8 months ago

On this same theme, Rolling Stone has an article about the horribly predatory (and previously unknown) tactics of the former Anti-flag frontman:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/anti-flag-justin-sane-1234817170/

He hid behind “feminism” and a lot of people had a hard time digesting he wasn’t the good guy he pretended to be.

ICanSeeTheMehComing!
ICanSeeTheMehComing!
8 months ago

Way to go Ricci – support the victim – it isn’t easy to get a conviction. Mic drop.

Nine years out and I’m still learning that as much as I want people to see the truth about Mr. Sparkles, not all will. He is a skilled lovebomber and manipulator who knows how to covertly use and abuse people, especially those nearest and dearest to him like family and spouses. At work, he appears as the perfect colleague – but if they knew his afternoon “doctor appointments” were to see Backpage buddies or that he has personal ads on AFF looking for Couples/BiMWM encounters… their mind would be blown. Likewise, friends and family only want to see the good stuff.

Case in point… my adult stepkids have kept in touch with me through the years since the discard and divorce. We keep it light, but half of their childhoods has me and their half-brother in it. Yet recently, when one posted on social media about how grateful they were to be included in the DAY OF LOVE between Mr. Sparkles and his new wife appliance, I realized I was still culpable for their thinking their father’s abuse of me wasn’t that big of a deal. And, none of them want to look any deeper into their Dad’s behavior because who wants to see that five days before his wedding, their Dad had an active profile on AFF.

I guess the reality is that cognitive dissonance is real for everyone, but at some point, the courageous break-free from it and get very clear on who the victim is and why they deserve our understanding and support and not some Switzerland bullshit.

Stephen
Stephen
8 months ago

I had a hard time with the entire response to the conviction of Danny Masterson for 2 rapes. There is a great documentary about Bill Cosby titled “We have to talk about Cosby.” I recommend it because it delves into the duplicity of people. Weirdly, a long time ago I worked with a guy who used to take lunch breaks at the oddest hours of the day. turns out he was hiding in bushes next to school bus stops and following underage girls home, etc. He got life for his despicable disgusting behavior. Shock is the only way I and many others felt when he got arrested, tried and found guilty. No one was surprised that he got life and no one felt sorry for him at all. Shock though was the feeling. There’s nothing else to say other than shock. Kushner and Kunis are taking the brunt of the criticism because they are hypocrites because of their anti-trafficing advocacy. They weren’t the only people who wrote letters of support for Masterson though. Kurtwood Smith and Debra Jo Rupp also wrote letters of support. I guess they aren’t considered hypocrites? My oddest thought over this entire situation is that while Kutcher and Kunis are getting heat Donald Trump, also a rapist who not only lost a lawsuit over his behavior but actually bragged about his behavior in a deposition, and Supreme Court Justice Brent Kavenough, who was legitimately accused of raping women while in college, seem to be getting a pass by the critics. Maybe it is time to talk about everyone and not just focus on two people.

Ain't It a Shame
Ain't It a Shame
8 months ago

Most of us have here have heard the typical BS, “Sorry he hurt you, but he’s a nice relative/buddy/coworker.” These people really don’t care about the damage the abuser has inflicted, they just care that their lives aren’t impacted by it.

There were plenty of ways for Kutcher and Kunis to support the child of a convicted rapist which don't involve supporting the rapist in getting leniency in sentencing.

HunnyBadger
HunnyBadger
8 months ago

Life is complex, a variety of every shade of grey and then all the individual analysis from each person.

What is NOT complex is that some things were/are/will always be wrong.. Rape, murder, molestation, and harming other people. The wrongness in each of those is immutable, unchangeable.

We have been quiet too long. We let things slide. It is so easy to say, “Aside from those two rapes, Danny was a really awesome dude!” Without pausing for the subtext of, “And the two victims who were traumatized and whose lives will remain damaged by his choices and actions.”

Mika and Ashton and everyone but Topher figured that “since he didn’t hurt us, he is actually A-OK.” Which is so Switzerland f them. And everyone here has experienced Switzerland, right?

Time for someone to take a much closer look at Ashton and Mila’s charities.

In the meantime, let’s all remember that Ted Bundy was considered a great son, awesome boyfriend, and good friend…while simultaneously murdering scores of women. The CRIMINAL is who these people, including Danny Masterson, actually are. The rest is a skillfully crafter facade.

Sandyfeet
Sandyfeet
8 months ago

I recently ran into a former (20 years ago) employee of office. She told me that her back hurt, and she had heard all the rumors about FW, but she thought it can’t possibly be true, he was such a health nut, well loved, family man. She went to see him, she was shocked at the condition of the office, the lack of patients, lack of employees. She said he was missing teeth on the bottom front and it was appalling the lack of remorse he had for all that had happened. Couldn’t believe I told people he was on drugs…..Not my secret to keep but it didn’t take long for others to realize the truth. Just him and the 33 years younger AP.

Now he has sold the commercial property we had paid off and holds the mortgage until the balloon payment in 2025, if he lives that long….

People want to believe what they invested in.

HunnyBadger
HunnyBadger
8 months ago
Reply to  Sandyfeet

If you ever met my FW, you would never believe he was capable of doing and being everything he actually is: a cheater, alcoholic, drug addict (opioids), porn addict and a man who was snapping voyeur pictures of other women’s body parts even while with me and the kids.

I wouldn’t believe it myself if I hadn’t lived through it and seen all the evidence. These guys become very skilled at hiding it all.

I truly believe that no human is perfect but most humans manage not to give in to their baser, more dangerous thoughts or actions. The gaping cracks where their demons get out and run free…that’s a sign that a person is too weak (or too unwilling) to be trusted now or in the future.

And Danny Masterson, much like our FWs, simply became very good at hiding it all.

Kara
Kara
8 months ago

Disappointment on top of disappointment.

Hyde was my favorite character on that show.

I found out he was a scientologist, and like…deep into that shit and I was disappointed.

Find out he’s a rapist and I’m DONE.

Mila and Ashton supporting him and I’m done with them too. Are they fucking joking??? He’s a convicted rapist. There’s not a question of his innocence. He did it and there was enough evidence beyond reasonable doubt that he did it. He’s getting 30 years because of the level of brutality in both cases.

“Oh please mr judge! Couldn’t you just give him a weensie little break? He’s our buddy and such a nice guy!”

“Mr judge! Can’t you let him off this once? My daughter is so sad her daddy isn’t home!”

Nice guys don’t violently rape. Her daughter should be sad her dad’s a rapist. Imagine how the families and the victims feel at these appeals to his “good guy” character.

To quote Red Foreman:

“Dumbasses.”

Doingme
Doingme
8 months ago

If you excuse abuse you won’t have to face consequences. Accepting the truth comes with a cost. It means you have to get involved, stand up for others, and act accordingly. Most won’t do the right thing. They are cowards. As a mandated reporter I have spoken up and suffered some pretty harsh consequences as a result. And I’d do it again.

The second trial provided more information. I don’t believe a predator changes; they perfect their craft. Who knows what else this creep did and got away with after he married. Daddy, the rapist is a good father? It’s bizarre.

Ginger_Superpowers
Ginger_Superpowers
8 months ago
Reply to  Doingme

“I don’t believe a predator changes; they perfect their craft”

THIS 10000%

I didn’t leave when I should have and I’m actually grateful that I got left–I truly believe it’s why I’m alive and healing. I’m so glad that the jurors believed the women. So many times they don’t, with dire consequences for their next victim.

Laura
Laura
8 months ago

Been there done that. Asked the ex why he lied to so many about his cheating and he said he didn’t want people to think badly about him Guess what dipshit – people who lie and cheat on their wives aren’t good people.

DejaBlue
DejaBlue
8 months ago

Rapists love power, control, and take pleasure in someone else’s pain. They should automatically lose any parental rights after conviction. The fact that other people defend them totally disgusts me.

Haunted House
Haunted House
8 months ago

My cheater is the most charming guy on the planet when he wants to be. He will do anything for you, loves to give gifts ( he blew an unreal amount of our money on other women) and love bombs women like it’s an Olympic sport. Most people wouldn’t believe what he’s actually like when the mask is off.

portia
portia
8 months ago

I experienced the confusion of family members telling me I did not see what I saw or hear what I heard at a young age. I was also accused of being a liar or making things up. Nothing will silence a child quicker, IMHO. The damage lasts a long, long, time IMHO.

I believe this is one of the reasons I am drawn to crime investigation shows and novels. The investigator follows the evidence, is constantly lied to (sometimes by people with good intentions) and keeps an open mind. The dogged pursuit of the truth is time consuming, often expensive, and the solve rate has to be frustrating. Then, getting a conviction is another rocky road.

I love Masterpiece dramas on PBS. This weekend I watched a compelling one where a lifetime offender who was a highly intelligent psychopath also happened to be a very proficient doctor, family-man, and appeared to have lifelong friends. He had been raping and killing teenage girls who just happened to be in the wrong place and time for years. He had also abused his first wife and convincingly destroyed her credibility. He said he had learned to “act normal” at a very early age and did his crimes because he could. No empathy. Pure evil. It was chilling.

No matter what happens to you, or who you tell, don’t be surprised if people don’t believe you. They WANT to believe their version of reality. This is one of the many reasons I don’t share my story with most people. Even my intimate friends only know pieces of my story, and even though they have no reason to doubt what I say, who knows what they really believe. I have learned the hard way not to talk to family members. Even siblings who have experienced some of what I experienced don’t want to believe the totality. It is just too awful. It is the stuff of nightmares. How can I be who I am and have achieved what I achieved if it was really that bad? I don’t know. Maybe I just chose to live my life to my best ability in spite of what has happened? Maybe I realize I cannot change the past and will never hear an apology? Maybe I have just walled off that part of my past, and I choose not to review it or reveal it unless I feel I can come to some type of understanding and acceptance of it now that I am a self-proficient adult. Whatever my reasons, I do believe in Pure Evil, and I don’t believe what anyone says about themselves. I believe in their actions, which I have to observe over a period of time, and I believe in my “gut”. I also believe I can be fooled, so I have to be careful. It’s happened before, but God-willing, never again.

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
8 months ago

Tried posting this article earlier, but looks like it didn’t work:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/anti-flag-justin-sane-1234817170/

Another example of a predator hiding behind their good “reputation.” Anti-flag lead singer was known for his so-called feminism and used that to lure young girls. I think the count is up to 12 or 13 women that have come forward after he violently raped them?

One of the themes in the article is the reluctance to come forward, knowing how popular his feminist and liberal persona was. Sadly, another wolf in sheep’s clothing. You really don’t know what someone’s capable of doing the moment they’re out of anyone else’s sight.

CurlyChump
CurlyChump
8 months ago
Reply to  CurlyChump

Sorry for the double post! Looks like my comments were stuck in moderator-land yesterday!

TooManyTears
TooManyTears
8 months ago

Scientology IS a frightening cult.
Why is it so prevalent in Hollywood?
Also, consider that only 2 victims came forward.
How many more were there?
The letter from the rapists wife, was truly nauseating.
And so strange. Writing about their daughters reading level???
Her pony?
The whole thing is a head shaker.

Suzie Q
Suzie Q
8 months ago
Reply to  TooManyTears

I go down the Rabbit Hole of celebrity gossip often. Not proud of my hobby but I do. 8 victims came forward all Scientologists. Only 2women stories were solid enough the prosecutors thought had good evidence for conviction. Ashton and Vladimir someone the other guy from that 70’s show( the one played the Spanish guy/also the one that dated young girls and ply them with drugs Lindsy Lohan was one) The three had a Italian restaurant for a time in HW. They had a “rape room” allegedly. Masterson and the scientologists ran cover even supplied the victims as they knew these young women would not fight the cult of Scientology. Ashton did the letter as Masterson and the scientologists have dirt on Ashton. Of course allegedly and also a open secret in Hollyweird. I guess the rapes were so violent and drugged fueled he could have killed any one of the victims from the drugs he slipped them alone. sorry about grammar and spelling…kind of rage posting as this guy is an animal.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
8 months ago
Reply to  TooManyTears

Is Scientology still outlawed in Germany ?

ActaNonVerba
ActaNonVerba
8 months ago
Reply to  TooManyTears

I was just listening to the podcast A Little Bit Culty. S1E3 guest is Leah Remini, who advocates to expose the truth about Scientology.https://alittlebitculty.com/episode/heal-that-sht-leah-remini-the-aftermath

Some of the things Remini says about Scientology:
* Members learn to accept abuse and be abusive
* Scientology believes children are not actually children; they are old souls in little bodies. Starting at the age of 5, children are treated as adults, & by this logic, molestation isn’t seen as wrong.Part of mandatory training for children in the organization can include sexual harassment, molestation, and/or rape.
* Scientology is the primary caretaker – parents abdicate their authority to the organization. Members bond to the organization as a parent (which ends up having a similar outcome to that of Harlow’s barbed wire monkey experiment). When someone in Scientology is charged/convicted by an external force, like a court of law, the other members of the group have a deep family-bonded loyalty to the perpetrator.

I am learning a lot by listening to this podcast as it covers a wide range of cults and culty organizations. There’s a lot of overlap between people who leave abusive relationships and those who leave cults/cult-like organizations. Sometimes the Venn is a circle. 🙃

FYI
FYI
8 months ago
Reply to  TooManyTears

Three women came forward, but he was found guilty for raping two women. Apparently Scientology put a lot of pressure on the women to keep quiet — stalking them, running their car off the road, poisoning their dogs, etc. All the victims were Scientologists when the crimes were committed against them. Four women (and one of their husbands) are suing Scientology over all of this.

Zip
Zip
8 months ago
Reply to  FYI

I think there were 5

susie lee
susie lee
8 months ago
Reply to  TooManyTears

I think because egos in Hollywood are so huge that a religion that believes humans are equal to God if only they try hard enough or give enough money appeals to their egos.

At least that is the only thing I can think of. It does seem to suck a lot of celebrities in.

Shannon
Shannon
8 months ago

This prison sentence is Masterson’s comeuppance. He robbed women of their joy and innocence, and now his daughter won’t have him in her life in a meaningful way. Men like him don’t value women whatsoever until it is their own daughter (sister/mother/wife) being affected. Women are merely sex objects to them. Those women that he raped were daughters, too.

I pity the Masterson daughter. Total wackadoos on both sides of the family. Born into chaos and depravity.

Mehitable
Mehitable
8 months ago

I’ve never seen that show so I don’t know anything about this man or his case, just what I’ve seen in headlines recently. What struck me though, was seeing a YT vid, maybe a minute, of him with Conan O’Brien and Conan was joking with him and said something like….”you’re gonna get caught soon” after DM made some mildly ribald joke. Don’t know how long ago this was but this is a pattern I see over and over and over again. THEY KNOW WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE LIKE. Whether it’s this guy or Harvey Weinstein or whoever….THEY KNOW WHAT THEY”RE LIKE. And the resolutely ignore it and allow it to continue until….for some reason it stops. I don’t know what it took to stop Weinstein – it wasn’t all those women because the System doesn’t CARE about all those women. I’m sure they don’t care about the women DM raped. And there are others of course, I figure maybe there are financial or political reasons they finally take action against them – I don’t think it has anything to do with “justice”. But I see, once again, that I believe they all KNOW that these people are like this, doing these things, maybe for decades, like Jimmy Seville in UK, and they ignore it or maybe benefit from it. So many people go unheard for so long.

Mehitable
Mehitable
8 months ago

Excuse me if I’m kind of off topic today but this really makes me think of stuff like…..hearing Ethan Hawke, another Hollywood POS, talking about how wonderful it was to direct his own daughter in sex scenes. Now….I know I might be kind of old fashioned but….I don’t think ANY MAN should be directing his own daughter in sex scenes. I don’t even think there should be SEX scenes because I think they are a form of porn and inherently degrading. But that shows how absolutely degenerate Hollywood is, and maybe a large part of the society where this might be considered…..acceptable? My husband has been reading about Charlie Chaplin recently, whom I have always detested, both personally and his works, and how badly he abused young women, at least 15 yo and possibly younger. How he groomed them, possibly starting from childhood, and how he abused them physically, psychologically, sexually…..Charlie Chaplin was a TRULY terrible person. And I’m not talking politics at all. As a human being, he was a monster towards women. And yet….he was pretty much allowed to do this for decades and even now, I think Hollywood and our elites kind of look the other way and laud him for his (to me) dubious achievements. There’s a LOT of people like that – if you are rich and powerful, you can fuck over anybody and unless you fuck the wrong person, which is most likely one of their class, you can go on for decades, grooming and raping and abusing. It’s built into the System.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

I think by now we should be viewing pervs as a political special interest group. Sort of like the Man-Boy Love Association, it’s like sexual perpetrators can never stop compulsively trying to normalize and do PR for their demented sexuality. Hawke may be counting on his star power to score points for pervs by acting like a dad orchestrating simu-sex with his daughter is as normal as apple pie. He’s just trying to make the world more welcoming and cozy for creeps like himself!

I think that’s what’s been happening in general since #MeToo: as a form of backlash, media honchos and the corporate honchos that sponsor these publications keep endlessly trying to “wag the dog” and alter increasing public condemnations of sexual abuse by eroding concepts of consent. They can hardly do this directly by condoning rape and harassment but the campaign to defend, normalize and promote cheating might be an oblique way to soften public disapproval for even worse offenses. It gives you the feeling (duh) a lot of people in power are predators in their own rights and the wag the dog campaign is a kind of confession of this, after all the take-downs of power figures over rape and harassment allegations have deeply impacted the media industry.

OHFFS
OHFFS
8 months ago

“I think by now we should be viewing pervs as a political special interest group.”

Love that line.

“sexual perpetrators can never stop compulsively trying to normalize and do PR for their demented sexuality.”

Even worse, they have so many volunteers who are eager to help them do that.

“the campaign to defend, normalize and promote cheating might be an oblique way to soften public disapproval for even worse offenses.”

Yes. That and “sex positivity” and “kink acceptance” are being used as sneaky ways of eroding public concern for consent. They are being used to promote abusive and coercive sexuality. For example, if you raise the issue of how porn has normalized abusive sexuality, the sex poz nazis immediately try to shut you down with accusations that you are a prude, a busybody, sexless, jealous, etcetera. They get extremely defensive and viciously attack you.

Apidae
Apidae
8 months ago
Reply to  OHFFS

“Being used” by who exactly?

The truth is that creeps and abusers will latch on to whatever narrative they think works. Shaming and pushing “purity culture” + the forgivness-industrial complex has served religious groups for decades.

Kara
Kara
8 months ago
Reply to  Apidae

Oh for sure. It’s the same as cheaters latching onto polyamory and terms used in poly relationships to try to justify their cheating. Abusers LOVE latching onto kink terms and sex positive terms because they think it works. Cheaters use poly terms because they think it works. And religion loves forgiveness shaming because they think it works.

And to a degree, it does. If it didn’t work, we wouldn’t be sitting here talking about it.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  OHFFS

Lol, whenever I’m called out for “kink shaming” (usually for bringing up no brainer things like, say, teen girls ending up on colostomy bags for being pressured into anal sex or the feminist concerns surrounding S&M and choking) I say “But my kink is kink shaming and now you’re shaming me for it!”

No one ever has anything to say after that.

Kara
Kara
8 months ago

I’ve never heard anyone in the kink community advocate for the assault of teenage girls or pressuring them into anal. I’ve never heard anyone in the kink community advocate for pressuring ANYONE into anal. If someone DOES press for teenage girls to be forced to do anal and calls it kink, it’s not. It’s assault.

I worked in adult toy shops for about 5 years, and one of them was woman-owned and LGBT friendly. The HR manager and co-owner is very involved in the kink community and is also a sex educator. Around the time 50 Shades got really popular, there were 50 Shades themed toys…because of course there were. We didn’t carry them. We refused to sell them. Anyone who asked about them or asked about S&M because they had read 50 Shades got educated on the difference between consensual S&M and abuse. I.E. shoving a contract at someone and saying “sign it or I leave you” isn’t dom/sub relationship, it’s coercive control. Ignoring someone and continuing after they have said no isn’t domination, it’s rape. Ignoring a safe word and continuing after someone has tried to stop you is also rape. If someone has already expressed they are not interested in participating in a certain act (such as anal) that act is off the table. No means no, there’s no negotiating it. There were occasions where couples would come into the store and the man would be asking about stuff for anal and the woman would be saying no, she doesn’t want that. If he kept pushing and pressing it, we’d kick him out of the store. It happened entirely too often. We were really big on “no is no” and making sure the customers felt safe in the store. Even from their own partners.

And anyone, ANYONE underage is off limits. Period. Even if someone is 18, there is still consideration for their maturity level. If someone in their 30’s wants to bring in someone who is 18, there’s going to be raised eyebrows and some communities will not allow it. “Safe, Sane, and Consensual” means nobody gets seriously and permanently hurt, nobody does anything that is illegal and makes others involved uncomfortable, and consensual is obvious. Everyone has to actually consent to it.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  Kara

Kara,

Oh you think I’m talking about actual ethical members of alt lifestyle movements/groups? Nope. I have no disagreement with what you’re saying which I take as the equivalent of ethical nonmonogamists within the poly community who walk the walk. But my background is in advocacy for rape and DV survivors where it’s understood that abusers claim alignment to or hide behind all sorts of ideologies and lifestyles if it helps them better frame or conceal their abuse or gives them more access to victims. Abusers are so likely to do this that you have to expect that at least 10-20% of any alt lifestyle or poliitical collective are abusers hiding behind ideology just like abusers are drawn to helping/heroic professions.

This can be very painful for communities to deal with, especially embattled alternative communities that have to grapple with social mischaracterization. But it’s important for every community that attracts particularly high rates of abusers– from shrinks to EMTs to special ed teachers– to take on the task of weeding out the psychos, cranks and covert freaks.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago

Point being that we’re in double agreement. Congrats for weeding and exposing the trolls.

Kara
Kara
8 months ago
Reply to  OHFFS

And then people in the kink community have to do damage control to explain that no, a lack of consent is not kink and sexual assault is not sex positive. “Safe, sane, and consensual” is the overarching rule of kink communities.

So when someone does something that is absolutely sexual assault and sexually coercive and tries to call it kink, it’s absolutely trying to normalize harmful behaviors using terms that don’t apply.

(Thanks 50 Shades of Crap…)

susie lee
susie lee
8 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

Fade to black was much better, and quite frankly much more romantic.

Mehitable
Mehitable
8 months ago

CL: “Because they want to believe.” I think this is true but…..I also think that most of them don’t care. Or they don’t do anything because many of them are doing this stuff THEMSELVES or they have others close to them that are, so they’re dedicated to covering things up. So much of our society is dedicated to lies and covering things up.

OHFFS
OHFFS
8 months ago
Reply to  Mehitable

True, Meh. They don’t care. For whatever reason, believing in the FW is more convenient and more important for them than doing the right thing is.
So we can see that these are unethical, selfish people.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  OHFFS

If you think about it, who is it safer to cross in a conflict– the dangerous perpetrator who “won” the initial parry or the victim who “lost,” thus becoming a victim? These people are not only selfish but they’re breaking the social contract.

I think part of the reason I prosecuted two workplace perpetrators was to swing the balance in the other direction and do what I could to make sure everyone saw a different outcome and learned a different lesson. It came out during both cases that, as children, the predators I dealt with had experienced and witnessed domestic abuse at the hands of their own fathers (interestingly enough, the perps’ dads were both “upstanding doctors”– speaking of abusers being drawn to “helping” professions and posing as heroes). Rather than making me have any sympathy for these characters, I took this as a call to correct the social message. In my world, victims win and perps lose. The second case led to an actual trial during which the defense attorney tried to shame me in front of the jury because I mentioned a phone conversation in which the perpetrator whined about his father’s violence in an attempt to get me to drop charges (for which he was re-arrested by SWAT and put back in jail for breaking the restraining order). Experienced attorneys are supposed to know better than to ever ask a question they don’t know the answer to, but this idiot lawyer asked me on the stand, “Don’t you feel bad for maligning Dr. So-and-so?” I simply said, “No. The defendant got his behavior from somewhere.” After this, the perpetrator got on the stand and denied having said his father was violent, which is no surprise since Dr. Daddy was funding sonny boy’s defense. The lie impeached his testimony since we later played a voicemail in court in which the defendant says quite clearly that his father dragged his mother up a stairway by her hair and once punched him into unconsciousness. The impeachment helped me win the case. It’s also part of public record that the sterling Dr. So-and-so beat up his family. Message sent.

I think up to the point these two creeps lost their cases, they’d never seen abusers “lose” before. In their experiences, abusers always won– which is why their monstrous fathers were “upstanding pillar of the community” doctors to begin with. If I had any sympathy for these predators at all, it was for the abused children they once were who may never have grown up to become dangerous adults had they witnessed their own abusers losing.

I suspect the same is true for most people who automatically takes the wrong side of a conflict, especially when the evidence makes it clear who really did what to whom. In negative bystanders’ experiences, victims are always the losing side. Siding with perps is a way of whistling Dixie to the perpetrators themselves or the gods of fate, a manner of groveling for amnesty.

2xchump🚫again
2xchump🚫again
8 months ago

You have entered my world. 3 out of 4 pastors believed my cheating abusive husband was worthy of rebaptism and remarriage with a protection order in place for the rebaptism and a divorce 9 weeks old, ink still wet, for the re -wedding. Later I was told that my former husband was a good liar and fooled them all talking confession of one affair( there were many) and the fake crocodile tears all the way to a new wife and life. But then, wasn’t I fooled too? I stayed past red flags, covert deceitful behavior, believed lies and the pretend sorry,( actually he was NEVER sorry, which is a red flag x1000.).I took abuse by the bucket full. I did not want my pretty family blown to smithereens. So impression management does work, it does work for those like myself,who lacked initial courage to leave and go out the door, to file, to get angry, to get out with my life. It was close. I was fooled with my eyes partially open. But all the Switzerland friends knew and my pastors knew enough. So I am adjusting my surroundings to those people who helped me leave, supported my escape and taught me to fly again. The others who say they were fooled and may have more abused people to care for in the future, I hope they learned something from my escape. I can only hope. Because as Tracy said, it takes courage to stand up and call liars out,especially crying “,sorry ” who would have Shakespear standing to applause the great act. Manipulation works. The key here is for me to see the lies, get out and file and say enough. Everyone else can eat crackers. They are useless and spineless. I can’t be that anymore.
On a high note, the most recent pod caste was excellent. Get the Patron app, Pay the few bucks and support this rare gift to chumps who care. Thank you Tracy and all the pod caste people. You are a voice in the swamp of cheaters and cheater supporters. We need all our voices!!

OHFFS
OHFFS
8 months ago

“So I am adjusting my surroundings to those people who helped me leave, supported my escape and taught me to fly again.”

Well done. You made the right decision.

Cas
Cas
8 months ago

Their letters were gross. Who cares that he doesn’t do drugs? I’d rather he do drugs than rape. It’s like they don’t understand what he did I much much worse than drugs.

Kara
Kara
8 months ago
Reply to  Cas

I’d rather him be going to rehab for snorting 10 grams of coke every day than be a rapist.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago

With Masterson safely in prison, I wonder what Masterson’s kids might begin to remember over time about dad and if it was really all roses at home.

I know the concept of repressed memory has been controversialized over the past twenty years but everyone should bear in mind that the chief source of this controversy was the recently defunct junk science mill and profitable expert witness hub the False Memory Syndrome Foundation which was founded by credibly alleged child abusers specifically to combat claims by their adult daughter, Professor Jennifer Freyd (coiner of “DARVO”), that she’d been molested by her father as a child. Professional board members of FMSF were also either credibly alleged or admitted child molesters or infamous legal apologists who defended or consulted on the defense of the likes of Ted Bundy, the Hillside Stranglers and the Butcher of Treblinka while the junk science created by this org was used in the defense of Weinstein and other prominent convicted rapists. https://www.thecut.com/article/false-memory-syndrome-controversy.html

In any case, though horribly traumatic, I suspect that, in the long run, it’s somewhat less damaging for kids when criminal parents are put away and that this is true whether those parents abused their own children or not– though it remains to be seen whether criminal parents are really as “compartmentalized” in their criminality as their families sometimes claim. Decades after her father’s conviction, Kerri Rawson– the adult daughter of BTK serial killer Dennis Rader, who evaded detection for ages because he reportedly fooled not only his community but his own family– admitted Rader wasn’t always such a great “family man” as his family had always maintained. Though Rawson still seems to contradict herself in the book and in interviews, she reports that Rader was prone to periodic violent and terrifying rages towards his family. The admission scuttled a popular theory that some serial killers manage to seamlessly compartmentalize their various personae. But the truth seems to be that Rader’s “compartments” leaked. It may be that Rader had his family in a kind of Pavlovian “operant conditioning chamber” where they were so grateful that “bad daddy” only appeared sporadically that they professed only positive memories of him after his conviction and may even have mentally erased the bad stuff. Rawson’s admission also suggests that Rader’s own claims that he came from a “normal” family may be either lies or confabulations.

So basically I’m wondering if Rader had not been convicted to life in prison whether his daughter’s memories of “bad daddy” would even have surfaced or whether she would have admitted it. Theoretically, it’s usually only when people feel relatively safe from their original perpetrators that repressed memories or admissions of these kinds come to light. Whatever the case, it’s a blessing Masterson is now in jail if it makes it less likely his kids will follow his example and/or because they may one day feel safe enough to access or admit to what dad was really like. The truth may be horrifying but nothing is worse than lies.

OHFFS
OHFFS
8 months ago

“If you excuse abuse then you don’t have to look at how you may have wittingly or unwittingly enabled it while it was occurring.

If you excuse abuse then you don’t have to dredge up any abuse in your past. MY SPACKLE IS VERY FRAGILE. DO NOT TOUCH IT.

If you excuse abuse then you can still hang out with the cool kids.

If you excuse abuse then you don’t have to reconsider who are the cool kids and if coolness is really something you should aspire to.”

👏👏👏

Check this out;

https://pagesix.com/2023/09/10/danny-masterson-accuser-shares-resurfaced-clips-of-ashton-kutcher-discussing-underage-mila-kunis-hilary-duff/

“Danny has watched her piano recitals and applauds when she practices in the living room after each song.”

Well I guess he can’t be a bad rapist, then. He’s one of those benign, piano recital watching rapists. 🙄
That woman is out of her tiny mind.

I know of an even worse case than this, where a woman’s own siblings wrote character reference letters for the man who attacked their sister. Unfortunately, I don’t think this sort of thing is uncommon.

Regarding Wool’s story, some things stood out to me.

“He was a very loving and wonderful father to his children.”

Well, Wool, he actually wasn’t. He wilfully destroyed their family, so how loving could he be? This is a classic cognitive error a lot of chumps make. They give the FW bitch cookies for parenting, when the reality is that by decimating the family unit, he/she failed the most basic, important test of what constitutes a loving parent.

“I am positive that nobody thought too poorly of him after D-Day because he was just the right degree of a good guy charming man.”

I hear that. Mine is still considered a good guy by most people, even people who know he both cheated on me and abused me. They choose to blame me rather than try to see behind his facade. If people don’t have your back, they don’t deserve to be part of your life in any meaningful way.

I’m sorry to hear you are going through this too, Wool. You must feel ganged up on and discounted as a human being, like your suffering is of no consequence to them. They only care about themselves, so if the FW is nice to them, it doesn’t matter what he did to you. It’s hell, but the silver lining is that it sorts the wheat from the chaff. You now know who you can trust and who you can’t.

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
8 months ago

Huh. Bijou’s father was such a Narc, perpetrated incest on his oldest daughter, and so I wonder if that was a factor in her clinging onto a sexual predator husband? So many people messed up by these actions. If she’s smart, she’ll come to her senses, and divorce, and distance her daughter from him! Some day the child will find out, it’s better to be straight with her ( as soon as she’s old enough).
Sad deal all around, but do the crimes, do the time.

Hell of a Chump
Hell of a Chump
8 months ago
Reply to  FreeWoman

We should always qualify things like that with the fact that many people survive childhood trauma without either repeating the abuse by victimizing others or reenacting it by partnering with subsequent abusers. Unfortunately, it seems like Bijou Phillips is both reenacting and repeating by failing to protect her kids. She sounds dark in her own right. At almost 30 years old, Bijou threw her own sister under the bus following Mackenzie’s allegations against their father, saying “Mackenzie’s history with our father is hers, but also clouded with 30 years of drug abuse…”

God, I hate that “clouded by” spin when it comes to discrediting victims, impugning their memories and silencing their voices. Claims like that know no limits and have even been used against Holocaust survivors in trials against Nazi war criminals. I know it’s happened that some fabricate stories of childhood abuse as a means of extortion but it’s exceedingly rare. Vastly more never even come forward.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
8 months ago

Gee I wonder if Mackenzie self-medicated with drugs to mask the trauma of what her own father did to her ? Heavy sarcasm. Nothing like a fellow family member throwing one under the bus. And doing donuts over that person.

Genesis
Genesis
8 months ago

His “supporters” boggle the mind.
“He’s really a decent fellow when he’s not raping people….”
Right. It’s the dichotomy of who one is “secretly” and who one is publicly.

M1
M1
8 months ago

I’m going to support Mila and Ashton and all the other letter writers on this, as unusual as that sounds. I worked for the appellate public defenders office for almost a year which means all of our clients were already found guilty by the time they got to us. The point of the pre-sentencing or parole hearing letters is to add perspectives from people who knew the prisoner, not to whitewash or ignore their crimes. Letters are also written and submitted from the victims, the family and friends of the victims and anyone else who was impacted by the criminal or the crimes, whether that’s positive or negative. The judge hears from all sides, takes it all into consideration, and pronounces sentence. Which Judge Olmedo did. This isn’t a zero sum situation, though. Mila and Ashton didn’t minimize his crimes AND they issued statements supporting the accusers and all other victims of sexual assault. They basically wrote, ‘this is the man we knew’ in the limited way they knew him. Neither of them had a romantic relationship with him. They did not dispute the charges or the conviction. The only sway they could have would be to advocate for the lighter sentence, 15 years to life. It didn’t work and he got the max, the full 30 years to life. Now let’s talk about the institutionalized response from the Church of Scientology and their further abuse of the victims. That’s going to be interesting.

Zip
Zip
8 months ago
Reply to  M1

Oh they wrote more than “this is the man we knew”. They made him sound way better than a saint. Ashton said the rapist is one of the few people he would trust his children with. I’ve never in my life heard somebody spoken of so fondly, even during a wedding speech.
Imagine you were the victim of violent rape reading this extremely glowing character reference.
And then, the idiots had the nerve to say that they will continue to support victims, as they always have!
Cancel culture is out, but they should be canceled.

Apidae
Apidae
8 months ago
Reply to  M1

“Add perspectives from people who knew the prisoner” in this case means friends and family of the convicted felon (not just a ‘prisoner’) attempting to persuade the court to lower his potential sentence.

M1
M1
8 months ago
Reply to  Apidae

Convicted, deemed a flight risk, and remanded to custody immediately, so yes, a prisoner. As he should be. Masterson is a felon and a despicable human being. Who knows how many victims are really out there? But we’re pointing the finger in the wrong direction. Who committed the crimes? Masterson and those who aided, abetted and participated in the coverups. Letter writers are a distraction. Let’s talk about investigating those around him who furthered his crimes and bring criminal charges against them, too, if warranted. There are strong indications of conspiracy, at least, along with allegations of witness intimidation including killing an accusers dogs. One criminal behind bars, many more to go.

Mardi Meh
Mardi Meh
8 months ago
Reply to  Apidae

That’s exactly what M1 said. Isn’t it? Prisoner/convicted felon poTAYto/poTAHto …
Maybe I’m missing your point.

MichelleShocked
MichelleShocked
8 months ago
Reply to  M1

M1, that’s fair. Based on your insight into the system, it seems Mila and Ashton work put in a “rock and a hard place” situation.

Stepbystep
Stepbystep
8 months ago

With the benefit of hindsight, I realize FW and his family are conflict avoidant. They don’t have the urge or skills to deal honestly with a difficult situation. It’s a reinforcing system of judgement/gossip without resolution or accountability.

GroovyGroveJuiceCo
GroovyGroveJuiceCo
8 months ago

Danny Masterton’s DJ persona was “donkey punch” a nickname for a pretty violent sexual act which should tell you all you need to know about the guy.

Mardi Meh
Mardi Meh
8 months ago

Well I just googled “donkey punch” and I regret it. I’ll kink shame that.
Call me quaint and old-fashioned but I’m of the opinion that sex should not exponentially increase your chances of CTE. Consenting adults blah blah blah
but Good God.

susie lee
susie lee
8 months ago
Reply to  Mardi Meh

I don’t even know what CTE is, but I learned not to google unknown risqué stuff years ago when someone used the term plating.

Nut Cluster Free Zone
Nut Cluster Free Zone
8 months ago
Reply to  susie lee

How much money is being used for researching the brains of American football players who had CTE ? Maybe the funds should be redirected to helping women who escaped bullies and suffer from TBI.

Mardi Meh
Mardi Meh
8 months ago

That research will help people with TBI and all sorts of other neuropathologies in the future. The dead NFL players whose brains are being studied contribute greatly to that research, many of them after years of suffering. This isn’t research being done for the benefit of the NFL. I’m not being nitpicky, I just hope knowing this might make you feel better, NCFZ.