Dear Chump Lady, Is it wrong to have feelings for my friend’s wife?

cakeDear Chump Lady,

I’m a married man and 51 years young, not too happy with my life at home at times. Last year I met a beautiful woman. She’s smart, funny, a great mother to her three kids and I must say super sexy, and who I totally fell in love with.

She is going though a divorce and was married to friend of mine for just about 25 years. We have been talking for a long time, she tells me stories about her life and I do the same. We do see each other in social gatherings and never alone (BUT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE HER OUTSIDE OF OUR GROUP OF FRIENDS). Nothing has happened between us in a sexual manner. She is everything and more I’ve been looking for in a lady and a lady she is.

Why is it that such a good women needs to deal with a divorce? I hate that she is dealing with this and would do anything, yes anything, to make her happy and help her though this. Am I wrong for feeling this way about this woman? I cannot help but think about her and wish it could turn into something more. She tells me that can’t happen and I obey by her wishes.

I’m a good man, hard working, and a great provider to my family. I just can’t deal with some of the things that happen here at home. I give and give and do everything for my wife, but don’t feel appreciated for all I do…. How does one deal with this? My lady friend shows me appreciation more in the short time that I’ve know her then I’ve received from the women I’ve been with for more than 22 years. It’s frustrating and I can’t understand it. I try and try with conversation to let her know my frustration, but she just doesn’t get it.

Is it so wrong for me to have these feelings for such a wonderful woman who I deeply care for?

Need help, please advise.

Michael

Dear Michael,

Is it wrong to have feelings? No. We feel what we feel. It’s what we do about our feelings — through our actions and our consideration of others — that determines our character.

Don’t be a douchebag, Michael. You’re having an emotional affair with this woman, which is bad enough, don’t take it further. You wrote to me, Chump Lady, whose potty mouth and dim view of cheaters are on full display. So I can only assume you want me to bitchslap some sense into you.

How does one deal with this?

One gets a divorce, Mike. Or one commits to one’s marriage. There’s no middle path for decent people. The middle path is cake — the carbohydrate life force of cheaters. Having it both ways — the kibbles from your schmoopie, and the comforts (and lack of financial consequences) at home. You get to live in a fantasy world where you’re a shining knight comforting a Lady in Distress, who goes home to his dungeon of No Appreciation, where he works tirelessly to provide for his Ungrateful Kingdom.

“My wife doesn’t appreciate me” is the oldest cheater line in the book, Michael. You’ve trumped up some nice justifications there for your emotional affair with your friend’s soon-to-be-ex.

Speaking of your friend — doesn’t it skeeve you out in the least to be sharing emotional intimacies with your friend’s WIFE? You’re betraying your friend! But let me guess, she’s told you things about him that make him out to be a real jerk, and that’s why they’re divorcing. Maybe he is a jerk, Michael, maybe he’s not. But whatever is going on in their marriage is not made better by your emotional affair.

Here’s the thing with appreciation — it’s hard to appreciate someone when they’re diverting the best of themselves elsewhere.

You might argue it’s a chicken and egg thing — I had to divert my attentions to an affair because I wasn’t appreciated. But see it from the other side — your wife doesn’t appreciate you because you’re having an affair. Your head is turned by this other woman. Instead of appreciating her, and the life and children she gives you, you’re looking for an escape. It’s hard to appreciate people who don’t value or respect us.

Appreciate me! is what cheaters say to goad chumps into doing the pick me dance. Try harder to win me!

But what are they winning? A guy who is checked out with another woman. No one can compete with a fantasy, Michael. And this woman is a fantasy.

It’s easy for her to appreciate you — she doesn’t have to live with you. She’s got no real world entanglements with you. You’re kibbles to her. A shoulder to cry on, the attention she craves. And from what you say, she only wants you for kibbles. She doesn’t want to take it further. So, face it Michael, you’re good kibbles, but you aren’t GREAT kibbles. She’ll soon be a single mother with three kids, I’m sure she’ll have her pick of men in the dating world…(snort). Whatever her issues, (maybe she’s got enough sense to not get involved further with you?), she’s not interested.

But you still feel unappreciated. And she gets that. Okay, what do we do with that?

How bad IS it really, Michael? How badly do you want out of your marriage? Did it only seem unbearable once she came on the scene? Have you always felt unappreciated? Perhaps you’re truly in a dreadful marriage. I’ve been in a dreadful marriage and I know how it feels to have friends who see me for my better self. It was a wake-up call. A sense that, wow, there are people out there who really value me, and like those things I like about myself. I forgot who I was in this marriage.

This is valuable information, Michael. I’m not going to beat you up for those feelings. But you need to parse them out before you act. If your marriage is truly unloving and you’ve done everything you could to save it — which I don’t think you have Michael — it requires more than a couple lame conversations, and it requires ending your affair — then end your marriage honestly. That’s painful. It will hurt you, your wife, and your kids. But it will be honest, and you’ll hurt them a lot LESS than if you continue to cheat.

But something tells me that when faced with the reality of those painful consequences, you’ll decide it’s not that unbearable. I mean, why leave a marriage without the safety net of a new schmoopie love?

She is everything and more I’ve been looking for in a lady and a lady she is.

Good married men aren’t “looking for a lady,” Michael. And “ladies” don’t date married men. We call these people — cheaters.

Subscribe
Notify of

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

446 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
DuckLinerUpper
DuckLinerUpper
10 years ago

Yes, Michael, she is a fantasy. Things will change if you have to live with her. Fact.

CL nails it. Go cold turkey on this emotional affair. Make a decision – either work on your marriage honestly, or get a legal divorce. Don’t fence sit.

denver_girl
denver_girl
10 years ago
Reply to  DuckLinerUpper

I’m confused. Is this the same Michael who’s serial cheating wife has him tomented, staying with her only so he can kiss his 2 sons good night?

I can understand why he might go looking for comfort, but totally agree he needs to decide to end the marriage first.

Just need clarity here….

denver_girl
denver_girl
10 years ago
Reply to  denver_girl

Woops. need a delete button. Took me a while to read everything and realize I was mistaken. I hope this guy repents like he said he did. Stops harrassing the poor woman who is very vunerable right now.

Ashley
Ashley
10 years ago

Good married men aren’t “looking for a lady,” Michael. And “ladies” don’t date married men. We call these people — cheaters.

Stated so perfectly!!!

Maree
Maree
10 years ago
Reply to  Ashley

Ashley, in Australia they are called a lot more and worse.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Maree

HERE Too 😉

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago

Michael, I suggest you talk to a good therapist to figure yourself out. And here’s the big one; you need to decide if you want to leave your marriage if this woman you have “totally fallen in love with” does not want you and you would be happier alone, without your wife.

Here’s the deal, this lady is ethical perhaps and won’t date you while you are married. OTH, she may just be using that excuse to keep you as a friend. The big thing is, if you are truly unhappy in your marriage, lining up a new woman first is wrong – whatever is making you unhappy is not going to be fixed by some new woman.

If you decide to divorce you need to be on you own for some time before you jump into another relationship. Like CL says, it’s easy to love someone who is unattainable and whom you only see outside the humdrum of things. I have to run off to work so I’ll leave it there.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Plus, dude, you never see her alone (NOT a suggestion)–the point is–EVERYBODY looks nice in social settings. The 24-7 slog when you have a man cold and nothing goes right is going to be just as awful whether you think she sparkles or not. Your wife stays with your mancold–that can be a way to show love too, you little shit.

Seriously, I am getting all triggery here with your skein of fuckupedness. Get a God-damn spine, man up, look in the fucking MIRROR you sonuvaBITCH!!!!!!!!!

Nord
Nord
10 years ago

Chump in the Sand – I like your style. 🙂

It's a new day
It's a new day
10 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Ditto – Chump in the Sand. (best part – “you little shit”).

MovingOn
MovingOn
10 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Yep– I’m sure this is how all of our cheaters started out. “My wife doesn’t pay enough attention to me… wah wah wah…”

Would have been nice to have had a discussion about it so we could get counseling or a divorce.

Michael, give this some thought: What will you be doing TO YOUR KIDS!!??!

Yeah, cheaters never really think about them, or when they do, they comfort themselves with the bullshit “Kids are resilient” line.

TKM
TKM
10 years ago
Reply to  MovingOn

My poser also gave the “kids are resilient” line! Our kid was so resilient she wrote his sorry ass out of her life. He also did the you don’t appreciate me line too – and I am ashamed it got me to do the pick me dance. I didn’t realize at the time he had been cheating on me (this was 9 years ago). In fact I now think that he was giving me this line at the start of each cheating cycle without me knowing he was cheating. I am such a chump!!!

Jode70
Jode70
10 years ago
Reply to  MovingOn

Moving on… I got that line too.. the kids will cope. They are resilient. Yeah, righto. What a load of cheater bullshit!

Next
Next
10 years ago
Reply to  MovingOn

Cheaters do not think about anyone except themselves and their dicks!!! They are so fucking selfish….they do not have a care in the world about how many lives they fuck up and the families they destroy!! As long as THEY are happy!!!

Hawk
Hawk
10 years ago

CITS, I love how you think!

Drew
Drew
10 years ago
Reply to  Hawk

I agree! What sassy, brilliant, eloquent, intelligent Chumps we are! 🙂

Lynnette41
Lynnette41
10 years ago
Reply to  Drew

This post gets me all “triggery” too. Guess I’m not as meh as I thought.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Lynnette41

This post gets ANY Decent person Triggery, Hon…
I Reckon, Whether Married or Not..
Anyone with a CONSCIENCE with a ” Friend ” and a Significant other of Any sort.

Jode70
Jode70
10 years ago

Oh yes… so well said CITS… How about Michael you put all that energy you are putting into this so called emotional affair into your marriage. Imagine how great your marriage would be. All that emotional effort you are putting towards her, direct towards your own family… This makes me so pissed!!

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago

I’m a good man, hard working, and a great provider to my family.
–that’s YOUR narrative.

I just can’t deal with some of the things that happen here at home. I give and give and do everything for my wife, but don’t feel appreciated for all I do….
–That’s on YOU. Get a reality check. Get a *GOOD* therapist. Do you have a bleak hole that needs serious filling? Do you need someone to say how proud of you they are because you put the dishes away? I can tell you–no pussy hole goes deep enough to fill that lack of self-esteem. Fix yourself and your marriage–AWAY from your fantasy lady. And if your marriage does not make it–fix your picker and smarten the hell up.

Next
Next
10 years ago

CITS you hit the nail on the head!

My STBXH blame shifted by saying he felt like a flat mate just there to cook and pay the mortgage! Hell that was the only thing he did…I used to work full time, be the main bread winner, clean, raise our toddler, run around picking him up, feed him half the week etc etc. did I ever get shown any appreciation? NO! Did I complain about it? NO. I was trying to get our family ahead! Didn’t go and fuck someone else to feel appreciated!!

These fuckers think the grass is always greener! It’s so not!!

Mommy Chump
Mommy Chump
10 years ago
Reply to  Next

I got the same crap line – We love like roommates. Demonstrating that he has the intellectual agility of a small soap dish, he decided to find a slut “who appreciates him”. Yeah you low life pond scum, I’m the chump who did absolutely everything except earn the big bucks. I did all the cooking, cleaning, laundry (he used to complain I didn’t always fold the cloths fast enough and get them out of the way – never occurred to him that HE might get off his ass and help out with the laundry if it bugged him so damn much), the shopping, I took kid to school and picked up every day, took kid to ALL activities, he never lifted a finger to help out with kid, he couldn’t even be bothered to attend any school functions, parent teacher conferences, sports or music performances – that was all part of my job, I cared for the pets, I took care of the yard ( except the pool – the single thing he did get off his ass to do), I paid all the bills, I planned and packed for vacations – I was his fucking mommy.

His complaint about me – I didn’t appreciate him and have enough sex. So pointed out to the dog turd that all he every wanted was to go directly to sex – holding hands (no public displays of affection), cuddling, anything I would call showing love and affection he was not capable of. For this poser LOVE=SEX. I knew he had trouble with “lower level” intimacy from the get go (possible Aspergers ) but I accepted it as part of the deal. He was European from a very traditional family – woman’s place is in the home. I initially made more money than him but over the years he slowly turned me into his mommy and chump that I am, I allowed it. What did I get for transforming myself over 23 years into what he viewed as the ideal parent – I got the prize of my douchebag husband having multiple affairs.

Well, I wished up – it’s taken me
9 months to finally get really PISSED about what happened. Thank God I got a great job and my daughter and I are getting out of Dodge in 5 weeks when school ends. He moved out immediately – but now we are leaving the state and starting fresh, beginning with my daughter and I changing our names back to maiden name.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Mommy Chump

I wish you all the best in this next chapter.

nicolette14
nicolette14
10 years ago
Reply to  Next

ba ha ha! not until they have to mow the grass! then they realize its not green as they thought 😉

Nord
Nord
10 years ago

Chump in the Sand! You win the internet today! Your outrage is spot on. The writer of the letter is looking for excuses and not seeing reality one bit. who wants to bet his wife is home taking care of life for everyone but after two decades doesn’t run to the door to smother him in kisses and blow jobs the second he comes home and that makes the special snowflake feel less than special. Grrr …

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Thanks. It’s been a crazy raw few days. I bawled waiting in the waiting room for a follow-up to my operation just because I was alone with my thoughts.

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
10 years ago

I’ll ditto what Sara said, CITS. Big hugs coming your way.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago

I hope you’re okay {{{CIPS}}}

Seren3838
Seren3838
10 years ago
Reply to  Nord

C H U M P IN THE S A N D!!!!!

Y O U R O C K !!!!!

Chump Princess
Chump Princess
10 years ago

CITS,

OMG!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Chump Princess

I’m not done yet!!!!!

Listen, IF you have enough testicles to fill a grape peeler, and IF you actually choose to work on you marriage, DO NOT start this off with you telling your wife it’s because you have feelings for another woman–that’s IF you aren’t the Flaming Turd of Satan’s Ass who wants us to feed you ideas on how to play out a pick me dance. Shut the fuck up about the other woman and your bullshit fantasies, and talk about the sinkhole you have in yourself–and then shut up and listen to your therapist, wife, and do what the hell they tell you, because your actions speak more than this bullshit you’re feeding yourself and us.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago

Wouldn’t you bet Michael’s wife and children are feeling an emotional absence from their puerile, checked-out father and husband? But they should just tolerate it, right? While he goes hole filling?

Jode70
Jode70
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Wow Sara… you just spoke about my life!!! Love it!!

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Yep, that’s how it usually goes. Like my ex, who bleated about how he felt “no passion” for me, so had to find someone else. Maybe if he wasn’t FUCKING SO MANY SOMEONE ELSES, he would have felt more passion for me, you think?

Sara
Sara
10 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

Absolutely, Glad. How can a person compete with that mystery factor, the one they bait and switch you for so fast you can’t catch it in time to name? What happened to feeling cherished? Is that just over? Iyanla Fixed a marriage yesterday on Oprah. She said, “Till Death Us Do Part. But what does that mean? How much has to die? How bad does it have to get before you stand up and say you’ve had enough!” But she said it better. Cherished. Without even dancing. What a concept.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

I really hope to feel cherished one day.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

Me too, Northern. Like you can’t know. I get that we’re supposed to love ourselves and all that…but it sure would be nice to feel cherished.

Nord
Nord
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Oh yes, my ex felt unappreciated and that no one cared when he came home. Funny thing was he rarely came home to spend any decent time with us, instead carrying on a series of affairs – but there was no connection for him. Funny that.

Sandy R
Sandy R
10 years ago
Reply to  Nord

Yep, same here Nord. Oh waaaaaaaahhhhh..I was such a horrible, uncaring bitch. I can’t even begin to imagine the sorrowful picture he’s painted to the OW. And when he did decide to come home? Did he spend any quality time with the kids and I? Hell no. He was so far checked out that he spent the entire time he was home glued to his cell phone, in case the love of his life texted or called. Like everyone has mentioned..the narratives that these 2 are telling each other are lies, lies and more lies. Oh woe is them..amazing how they make it through the day, living in such horrible conditions in their marriage. Uh huh. Sure. Care for some Skittles with your unicorn ride over the rainbow?

Tiw
Tiw
10 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

So agree. The lies for no reason, that’s what kills me, had no contact for 2 months was doing well. Had to contact him yesterday and he lied and blamed me for his not paying car insurance but had time to play golf & be with OW while I was in a car accident, couldn’t answer the phone that is glued to him! Time to take control.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

T H I S.

Gypsy57
Gypsy57
10 years ago

“—no pussy hole goes deep enough to fill that lack of self-esteem”.

Wow. Truer words have never been ‘spoken’, CITS. If we had a ‘like’ button, I’d be hitting it 100 times!

G.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago
Reply to  Gypsy57

I’m with you on that one!

Freeatlast
Freeatlast
10 years ago
Reply to  Gypsy57

Boom! And there you have it. THIS!

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

THIS.

Ashley
Ashley
10 years ago

Michael,
I really doubt that you have done all you could so to fix your marriage. Have you gone to counseling? Have you read any good marriage books? When was the last time you showed any appreciation to your wife for all that she does for you? Stop playing the victim. You’re wife has been good for 22 years but suddenly now she’s not? Yeah, I don’t think so. You’re getting some ego boost off a slut who is into married men who also happened to be your friend’s wife. What a catch she is.

I can see it now…you’re wife is at home taking care of you’re family. Cooking, cleaning, helping with homework and you go to work to “provide”. Stop looking down on your wife as though she is some useless troll…which if she is then why have stayed for so long? Because you didn’t know how bad it was? That’s because it wasn’t bad until you’re “lady” came along.

I knew something was wrong in my marriage but I couldn’t put my finger on it. I went to counseling, I lost weight, I did all things I should have to make my marriage work. What did my exH do? Check out, ignore me, begin a double life and then reel me in with love gifts, and attention so we he dropped the bomb it was a huge explosion….yeah good guys don’t do that shit. Good guys don’t finally find issues after 22 years.

Nord
Nord
10 years ago
Reply to  Ashley

My ex actually told my kids that he didn’t realise how unhappy he was until I kicked him out. This after it was revealed he had been cheating for a minimum of close to a decade. Even today he will tell one of the kids that we BOTH screwed up the marriage. Funny, I thought I was doing everything to hold it together and he was out screwing bimbos.

The writer of this letter needs a smack upside the head. Maybe then he’ll get some sense and realise what an absolute cliché he sounds like.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Nord

My ex told me when he left that he didn’t know he was unhappy with me until he got to know the other woman. I recently learned that it appears he is now telling people how unhappy he was with me. Maybe that’s what he believes now, but he sure seemed happy to me and our family and friends, before he left. Is it possible to be unhappy if you don’t know you are unhappy until you meet someone else and realize you were unhappy? It makes me think of the tree falling in a forest when no one is around to hear it thing, but it has had me wondering…

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
10 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

My ex always told me I was his best friend and he was happy in our marriage…. right up until dday when he suddenly changed the story to how he had been miserable practically since our wedding day, never should have married me, we had nothing in common, blah blah blah. He continued to deny the OW and that he was having sex with her, but said she was a very good friend he was “helping through some problems in her marriage” and he was “interested in a future with her.”

I know he tells people now that he was always unhappy in the marriage — too bad he never mentioned that to me. These disordered types always rewrite history to make themselves out to be the good guy, the victim, the blameless one. It’s all bullshit.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

Sounds like a buncha hooey to me. I’m fairly certain I know whether or not I’m happy. If he was that disconnected from his emotions maybe he’ll find out he’s really gay next time. Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

I guess you bring up a good point: he is either a conscious or unconscious liar/history-re-writer, or he is completely emotionally disconnected/unaware. Neither option is good.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago
Reply to  NorthernLight

Exactly. Doesn’t bode well for schmoopie either. You win!

zyx321
zyx321
10 years ago

CL, spot on as always.
Michael: you are standing on the edge of a precipice, and what happens next is up to you.
Please do not take the passive, lazy, cowardly route that my ex took.
If you care about your children, and your spouse, then get into individual counseling, and possibly marital counseling as well. Your family deserves your full attention.

And if you cannot commit to a real effort (counseling will take time and real soul searching), then get divorced and stay away from the friend’s wife, even after your divorce. She is simply a fantasy of a “better life.” News flash, unless your spouse has done something criminal, or is a abusive towards you, your life is not as bad as you think.

My ex cheated, I accused him, he denied it (just infatuation) and we spent 8 months in marital counseling. I thought we were in good shape, and that ex could tell me when things bothered him, etc. Nope, 12 years later:
1) tons of BS about how I would not do X, I would always do Y (uh, no, you never said anything)
2) one EA and ANOTHER PA later, he leaves me for someone 12 year younger.
They have a new life and new baby.
I have two devastated children and get to spend another 10-15 years worried about developing cancer due to his unprotected sex.

Do not be a stereotype.
Be a real adult who understands that marriage, and life, is not always easy.
You fell in love with your spouse, and can do it again.

If you are too lazy, cowardly, or passive, then walk away now and provide more in child and spousal support than you a required to by law… It’s the least you can do since they did nothing wrong,

Good luck.

Char
Char
10 years ago

Michael, you are on the fast track to being a lousy friend and an even worse husband.

If you have not felt happy in your marriage – TELL YOUR WIFE and get some couples therapy and WORK HARD – REALLY HARD to save the 25 years of emotional equity you have built in your life together. I don’t think your wife looked too bad until you saw an available bright shiny possibility in your friend’s soon to be ex. And EWWWW – you are such a lousy person that you would throw a friendship with someone away to “comfort” the wife?? Think about how you would feel if that shoe was on the other foot, if you are capable.

If you are truly unhappy and TRULY MAKE AN EFFORT to work on your relationship and it just doesn’t happen – then have the RESPECT and LOVE for the person who gave you a life, a family, a home and be HONEST when the time comes. But not honest as in – I’m hot for my friend’s wife – honest as in – we are just not moving on the same path any longer.

In the meantime – I’m begging you – GO NO CONTACT with your friend’s wife and don’t even think about her or any future until you see where you are in your own life. You will reap a whirlwind of pain if you try to have your cake and eat it too. And your wife doesn’t deserve that. Your children don’t deserve that. Your friend and his estranged wife don’t deserve that. Hell – even YOU don’t deserve it (at this point.)

But if you play the mega-douchebag – disrespect, devalue and callously cause pain to so many – then prepare to deal with KARMA – because you may not believe it -but it is a mega bitch and it will give you back exactly what you give out. So don’t be a douche – be a decent, honest man, for God’s sake.

Next
Next
10 years ago
Reply to  Char

Exactly Char! It takes two to tango here…put some effort into your marriage and communicate with your wife!!! She cannot fix what she does not know about!!

Be a MAN!! Not a fucking coward that escapes with an affair!!

Hawk
Hawk
10 years ago
Reply to  Char

Well said, Char! Michael, take heed!

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Hawk

Michael,
I bet you don’t give a flying fuck about your friend anyways, but I’m going to tell you a story of a guy I know who had this kind of fantasy.

That assmaster wanted to leave his wife for a woman who divorced her husband for–get this–CHEATING! And HE thought he had a chance with her, because in his fantasy life this other woman, who was a friend and nothing else, would welcome him with wide open arms, running through fields of daisies.

The thing about fields of daisies in REAL life, is that there’s a lot of cow shit in them. I think you need to wake up and smell that shit–it’s sticking to your clothes.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

H A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT an IDIOT.

DuckLinerUpper
DuckLinerUpper
10 years ago
Reply to  Char

Yes. Your friend will feel completely betrayed. Does his feelings matter to you at all? If so, then stop talking with his wife. They’re still married, remember?

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  DuckLinerUpper

B I N G O.

I Am A Rock Star*
I Am A Rock Star*
10 years ago

The ow co worker who has tainted my life was perfect. She listened, she got him, it was so easy and comfortable and he was able to feel good about himself when he was with her. Yawn. Duh, I was home w kids, crying about not knowing wtf my h was doing, financially fucked, while he wined and dined an obedient pup. Then the bubble burst. She just mirrored back what he said, she acted unprofessionally with all other men (detrimental to their work), she refused to let go, she needed the ego boost as much as he did. He realized that she was in fact manipulating him for her own shit. The fallout has brought me to my knees. not to mention her h and slew of kids.

Look into the crystal ball of my life: the ea (pa?) has destroyed my h job, my teens hate him, I have to move, he still works with her, he had to confess to his mother, I had to be checked for stds, it goes on and on. The level of humiliation I have been thru is staggering – and not over! If my husband had put any effort into our marriage instead of her, things would be different. Or he could have said he wanted out. Regardless, he did not act with integrity or maturity and is ashamed. He didn’t keep me safe and secure, he brought a bomb into our lives. He detests her now because she represents the biggest fuck up of his life. Dude you’re in the fog. Be the man you want to be, do the right thing so you can respect yourself and maintain the respect of your family. Don’t be such a fucking baby, imagine your child reading icky emails between you and ms perfect and then calling you a fucking pussy at the top of his lungs and saying he hates you for hurting his mom and will never respect you again. Imagine having to knock on the door of your 18+ years family home because you don’t live there anymore and aren’t welcome even though you pay the mortgage. Is she worth that? You’re lucky, you can still do the right thing.

Sorry for the potty mouth, big week for decisions and I need to stay focused –

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

THIS.

It's a new day
It's a new day
10 years ago

You are a rock star!!

I Am A Rock Star*
I Am A Rock Star*
10 years ago

*my so terribly unhappy-in-his-marriage h is now bending over backwards to reconcile. What he wants is what he had all along, right there doing his laundry and mopping the floor, wiping runny noses and all the ho hum stuff. I’ve embraced what he was so willing to toss aside, the simple, not-ego-boosting tedium of regular unsexy life. FYI.

Hawk
Hawk
10 years ago

Same here.

Champ, not Chump!
Champ, not Chump!
10 years ago

What they say, Michael, and more… You’re in at least a bit of a fantasy world right now. Wanting what you want, wanting what you can’t have.

Chocolate is worthy of cravings, but oh, doesn’t chocolate sound SO much better when you’re on a diet? Don’t you obsess over chocolate when you know you shouldn’t have it? And if you cheat on your diet, do you know what happens? Well, for one thing, you realize that while it was good, it wasn’t all that great, and on top of all the calories, you’re now the proud recipient of guilt for screwing up. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, because unlike a diet, where you can fairly easily get back on track, you can’t undo the damage of an affair. You can’t undo the hurt, you can’t regain respect and you can’t go back to “the way things were.”

If I take you at your word and believe your interpretation of things, I think your lady friend is being unfair to lean on you so heavily. Maybe she needs to know that after her divorce she’ll still be attractive to men. Maybe she needs the ego boost to make it through, but I find it hard to believe that she couldn’t find someone more appropriate to lean on. She’s risking being a part of blowing up your marriage, and she knows that.

Yet she refuses to date you or get physically involved. Why? Well, as immaturely inappropriate as she’s behaving by leaning on you and telling you things about your friend that ought to be private, consider that she’s got a better grasp of reality than you right now. She knows that even if you do things in the right order (you back off, divorce, find yourself free and THEN date and fall hopelessly in love), it’s still going to be a shit sandwich for everyone close to you to swallow. Even done in the right order, your families, especially your children, are going to feel betrayed.

The only way this works, Michael, is if you give your marriage an honest shot. Tell this woman that you can’t be her confidant any longer, considering your feelings. If she’s as much a lady as you claim, she’ll honor that. If you still can’t get your marriage on track, then divorce your wife without dragging it out or her through the mud. Give yourself some breathing space, be on your own, get some counseling to find out how to fix your picker and what you can do to change your half of a relationship so that it doesn’t die a slow death. Most of all, realize that every relationship is going to go through periods where it’s not all infatuation and rainbows, and figure out how to live and deal with that. Then, maybe, perhaps, after several years passing for things to settle down (and dating others) you can re-explore a relationship with her. Anything shorter than that is going to cause everyone who knows both of you to think you were involved (and wouldn’t that be the truth?) before your marriages were over.

Good luck.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago

Great post. if the spouse or the kids find out, it will be a true shitstorm.

Regina
Regina
10 years ago

One wake up call is that your friend is divorcing her, and no matter whose idea it was, no one would allow this that had “Ms Perfect” on the line who has his kids and financial & time investment. From “schmoopie to nightmare” happened to him & it can happen to you. Regardless of the reasons, he has experienced with her probably most of the complaints you have with your wife because this is the nature of long term relationships. They are like boats, if you don’t take care of them they sink. Turn on the bilge pumps Michael before your boat ends up at the bottom of the sea! Once you decide you want it you can pull it back up, it will never be the same. The crew will know you as Captain let the boat swerve off course and paid no attention to the inclement weather, and risked their lives and well being for a “mermaid.”

Red
Red
10 years ago

My husband undoubtedly told his OW the same thing, Michael: “My wife doesn’t appreciate me. I work hard and get nothing in return.”

Funny, but I could have said the exact same thing about HIM.

*Like when I was raising our 3 kids by myself 95% of the time, and had to deal with snarky remarks on the rare occasions I asked for help
*Or doing ALL the housework/grocery shopping/laundry/bills/etc., because he couldn’t be bothered.
*Or when his idea of “having people over” was when I did all the prep/cooking/cleanup while he held court with his guests.

It was HARD WORK being married to that man, Michael, and he didn’t appreciate any of it, either. I got no kibbles, no diamonds, no gifts. I did get plenty of criticism, however. Oh – and I got cheated on, because apparently giving 1000% just wasn’t good enough.

So you know what I think you should do, Michael, before you end your marriage? I think you should “walk a while in your wife’s moccasins” to see WHY she may not appreciate you as much as you think she should. Is she raising the kids by herself? Is she working full time both inside and outside the house? Is she shouldering enough for 5 people and doesn’t have even a teeny tiny bit left over for you?

If that’s the case, ease her load. Do something unexpectedly nice. Make it your mission to make her laugh 2 or 3 times a day. My guess is, she’ll transform back into a very fun person, someone you want to be around.

Because “the grass grows where you water it,” Michael. Water it at home – NOT at your friend’s house. You’ll be amazed by what you harvest…

SweetSunny
SweetSunny
10 years ago
Reply to  Red

This was my life.

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
10 years ago
Reply to  Red

Maybe we need a check list:

Do you know the name of the pediatrician and orthodontist?
Do you know the name of every coach and teacher?
Do you know the name of the pieces your child is practicing for the recital?
Do you know which child demands mustard on her sandwich and which child does not?
Do you know how much lunch money is in the school lunch accounts for each child? Do you know how to put more money into the accounts?
Do you know how much a gallon of milk costs?
Do you know how many gallons of milk your household goes through each week?
Do you know where the dog’s leash is kept?
When did you last pick up the dog doo in the yard?
Can you sort and fold the laundry and know whose clothes are whose (including socks and underwear)?
Do you know what chores your child is assigned and what the penalty/reward is for doing them or not?
When did you last buy a present for your child to take to a friend’s birthday party?
When did you last make something for a potluck your family or child was attending?
What size shoes do your kids wear?
What foods are your children not allowed to have as snacks at their daycare?
Where are the replacement bags for the vacuum cleaner?
How many loads of laundry does your household need to have run each week?
When did you last buy stamps for the household (or paper for the printer or batteries or light bulbs or toilet paper)?
When did you last change the sheets on your bed? On a child’s bed?
How many times have you cleaned a toilet this month? A shower?
When did you last clean out the refrigerator?

If you know the answers to all of these things and have answers you don’t need to explain or defend, then counseling may help your spouse understand why you feel unappreciated. If you don’t know the answers to them, then counseling may be enlightening to you on a different level.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
10 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

I’d ask “How many times have you cleaned a toilet since you’ve been married?” probably never in most cases…

Patsy
Patsy
10 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa!

Yes, Michael, answers on a 2 x 4.

Red
Red
10 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Eilonwy – love, love, LOVE this list!

No wonder I’m always so exhausted… 😉

XH couldn’t answer ANY of those questions when he lived with us. Those all fell under the category of “Red’s Job,” so he didn’t bother. He did, however, criticize when they weren’t done to his satisfaction.

He does manage to keep his own place somewhat picked up. But he doesn’t like to dust, clean bathrooms, or put his sports equipment away – all of which is abundantly clear in his townhouse. But he can’t blame me for it now…. 😉

Chumpalicious
Chumpalicious
10 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Eilonwy, Those also make excellent interview questions for a New Mommy. I’ve been puzzled as to why some of these guys are so enamored with the OW as a “wonderful mother”. (they don’t say she has wonderful kids; those are her husbands kids) Well, they don’t know the answers to those questions, and they can’t bloody function in life without a woman who does. Mommy mommy mommy. Oh, yes, and appreciate me and respect me for being a helpless infant in a man’s body.

Peter Pan Syndrome for sure, and I’m not convinced there’s not an Oedipal complex in the woodpile too, no matter how much it appears, like with my ex, that they hate their mother.

Trying to trust that he sucks
Trying to trust that he sucks
10 years ago
Reply to  Chumpalicious

THIS. Mine fucked a mommy replacement. And hates his real, borderline/narc/alcoholic mother.

ChumpedTwice
ChumpedTwice
10 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Very well stated. I highly doubt he knows any of the answers to this.

TheMuse
TheMuse
10 years ago
Reply to  Red

Red, that sounds like my life, too, plus I paid for everything while he paid for nothing… sadly, I think it is too late for Michael because he is a narcissist and his actions ALREADY have shown that he has no respect for his wife and does not consider her his equal.

I found out about my N’s cheating 10 months ago and he claimed all the same excuses Michael uses. Two months ago finding emails he had failed to delete (though he spent days deleting his files the day after I kicked him out), I discovered gushy seductive emails to a prior OW that I never even knew of, 5 years ago. A real “good provider” and good man, such as Michael here claims to be, and my ex claimed to be, would not EVEN be having those “feelings” if that’s what you call the need for narc kibbles.

Or if they do, they would, as CL says, JUST BE HONEST and ask for a divorce.

4evertrue
4evertrue
10 years ago
Reply to  Red

Spot on Red.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  4evertrue

Yeah, and remember–pissing on your grass doesn’t count as watering it.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

THIS.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

Michael…
GET REAL..
Do you KNOW what a ” FRIEND ” Doesn’t DO?! KEEP Hanging Round your WIFE after he KNOWS he has FEELINGS for your ” Wife”….He STAYS the HELL AWAY from Her, outta RESPECT for You and Your MARRIAGE.

You’re Having an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR ON YOUR WIFE.

Your Wife Deserves a Better Husband,
HER HUSBAND Deserves a BETTER Friend And Wife..* I Don’t give a Shit if he’s a ” Jerk”….. Odds Are That’s Just The Justification BOTH of You Give Eachother to DO what you KNOW is WRONG.

BOTH of You NEED to DIVORCE… Let Your PARTNERS BE WITH PEOPLE WHO CAN BE TRUSTED. There’s Hardly a Way to Bounce back from a Betrayal of THIS Size.

You Betray your ” FRIEND ” This Way, You’d BETRAY just About ANYONE This Way.

You Better CHECK Yourself Before You WRECK Yourself…and Other Innocents that DON’T DESERVE THIS SHIT.

Nat
Nat
10 years ago

Michael,
I agree with ChumpLady, you seem to be having a fantasy about this woman and of course it seems great as all fantasies are this way.

My STBX of 13 years did exactly what you are doing to your wife now. He said he wanted to be “a better couple” while having an emotional affair with another woman. So 6 months after this “conversation” he leaves me for her just out of the blue and without truly committing to trying to be the couple that he wanted us to be. He treated me very poorly during that time actually. Emotionally distant, physically distant, would not be in the same room as me distant. Basically he decided all by himself that the OW was the “one woman” for him. And so he dumped me out of the blue like I was yesterday’s trash.

Please don’t do this to your wife. Follow ChumpLady’s guidelines and truly commit to your marriage or end it but honestly and as a team because you have 3 children together. Surely, that means that your wife deserves respect in all of this?

In my case, not only am I hurt to be going through a divorce but also I’m hurting in the manner that I was dumped. I felt that I was the kind of person that my STBX could have talked to if he wanted out of our marriage. We have two young children who are now growing up without their father because of this fantasy affair that turned into a real one.

If you want that to be your legacy, go right ahead, but it’s better to do things right the first time.

Here’s a quote from Theodore Roosevelt:

“In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.” – Theodore Roosevelt

Drew
Drew
10 years ago
Reply to  Nat

Very well stated, Nat. Screw those who can not recognize when they have it good. Loved the quote, and so relevant when applied to our lives. The best decision would be to be present in your marriage and do what is right. Nothing was what our exes did. Hey they like it that way, like Michael….
HUGS-lots!- to those who are still in the trenches. I know we will all be better off without the crazy.
To all those who are contemplating blowing up their marriages and betraying their spouses and children: That horrible decision will be your LEGACY to the world.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago

Dear Michael,

You could in every respect be the jackass who betrayed me. He, too, is 51. He, too, “fell in love” with a married mother of three, who has been married over 22 years. He, too, knows her family. He was her late brother’s best friend back in high school. He, however, wasn’t married to me; he had just made commitments, emotional and financial, to a life “forever.” He walked out on all of that, complaining loudly that he wasn’t “appreciated,” while he spend the money I had put in his business account.

First, about your “lady.” She’s a great mother but having an emotional affair with you. How great a mother can she be? A great mother doesn’t have an emotional affair. She deals with her marriage, either to improve it or end it; she deals with figuring out her emotional needs and how to get them without devastating other people, most particularly her children. In my case, this “great” mother of three has a huge close extended family. How will her mother and siblings feel when it comes out that she was cheating with the deceased brother’s friend from the memorial service onward? They will never feel the same about someone who has meaning for them because of their departed loved one. The kids have lost a family member already. The husband is being made a Chump, a fool who posts sweet “happy anniversary” notes on FB while his skank wife uses FB for her emotional (and no doubt sexual) affair. Yeah, she’s a GREAT mother.

Meanwhile, what of your wife? Is SHE having a sexual or emotional affair? Or is she buckled down to raising the kids, working a job, keeping house? How appreciated can SHE feel if all your kibbles are going to the oh, so sexy, new and sparkly mother of three? How would you feel if she were saying to your friend what you are saying to his wife?

You’re an asshole–someone who feels entitled to do whatever benefits you and who has no moral respect for other people. Your wife would be well rid of you, as I am well rid of the jackass. And as the husband of the jackasses’s special “married woman and great mother of three” would be well rid of her.

ReDefiningMe
ReDefiningMe
10 years ago

Michael,

Let me ask you this…do you want to save your marraige? Because it sure seems to me that you’ve already checked out. Your level of disrespect for your wife is amazing; and your fawning over your “friend’s” wife is very immature.

“Ladies” do not confide details of their personal life with married men. Period. They get a shrink; they talk to their girlfriends, pastor, or family. That’s a HUGE red flag. If she does that now, will you be comfortable with her talking that way about YOU to another “guy friend” in ten years? Didn’t think so.

My exH, by his own admission, called me a “wonderful wife” – but he also confided all kinds of (untrue) shit about our family to his married female co-worker. Guess what? None of it was true, and he said what he needed to say to get into her pants. Are you willing to be THAT fool? Wake up. She’s using you, and you’re letting her, because you’re “unhappy” at home.

Challenge for you – for the next 60 days, don’t talk to this “lady”. Instead, find one way every day to genuinely compliment your wife. And then, instead of just using words (that’s easy), once a day, DO something nice for her, without expecting ANYTHING in return. Take out the garbage before it overflows. Do homework with your kids. Run an errand for her. Bring her flowers. Expect NOTHING in return. Oh, and read “Love Languages” and use it to better love YOUR WIFE, not another woman.

Then maybe you won’t destroy your family. I’m about your age, and it dawned on me this year, that I will NEVER have the experience of retiring someday with the father of OUR children, and watching our grandchildren grow up together. That’s huge. That, and a million other hurts you will inflict on your kids if you don’t fight for their family. You can still be the hero here. Man up and do the right thing. Fight FOR your family.

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
10 years ago
Reply to  ReDefiningMe

I love this reply so much, RedifiningMe. That is good advice.

Michael–go get some counseling to work through some mid-life depression and disappointment you’re having.

As stated, you CAN be the hero in your own life. It won’t happen if you destroy your family. Find your values and stick to them. Ride this distraction out. Get away from this woman (and there are always others, as well–she’s not special) who would help you make the biggest, most regrettable mistake of your LIFE. If you think you feel crappy now, imagine seeing the pain you caused in your wife and children’s eyes. Imagine going to bed every night wondering how you could have sunk so low? What happens when the shine wears off this new thing, when the fantasy woman rolls her eyes at you because she actually does NOT love picking your socks up off the floor. Imagine dividing all your assets up in half–what happens to the fantasy, then? Imagine looking your friend in the eyes. How much of a man will you feel like then?

Don’t go down that path. Please go out of your way to NOT exchange ego kibbles with this dangerous woman. Believe us when we say it’s not worth it. I swear that in a few short years you will look back and marvel at what you almost lost–if you do it right. Alternatively, you will look back, mortified and ashamed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBumgq5yVrA

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
10 years ago
Reply to  Miss Sunshine

That song is about your WIFE.

notyou
notyou
10 years ago
Reply to  ReDefiningMe

“Ladies” do not confide details of their personal life with married men. Period.”

This!

(CL, you must find a way to add a “like” button!!)

Tess
Tess
10 years ago

You are not a good man at all.

You wonder how a woman like this has to go through a divorce? Wow you jerk, look what you are doing to your own marriage.

Go to hell.

Cletus
Cletus
10 years ago

Michael

You wrote this letter to CL because you know on some level you are being a complete jackass and want someone to tell you to stop being a complete jackass…so here it is…wait for it…you are being a complete jackass and you need to stop it now!

Cletus

Hawk
Hawk
10 years ago
Reply to  Cletus

“you are being a complete jackass and you need to stop it now!” THIS and since you are being an ass, no REAL lady will have you. Take responsibility instead of the coward’s way out.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Hawk

Right ,Again,Hawk.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Cletus

T H I S.

MichaelD
MichaelD
10 years ago

Don’t be a douchebag, Michael. You’re having an emotional affair with this woman, which is bad enough, don’t take it further. You wrote to me, Chump Lady, whose potty mouth and dim view of cheaters are on full display. So I can only assume you want me to bitchslap some sense into you.

THIS ^^^^^^ AND NO I AM NOT THAT MICHAEL MAYBE I WISH I COULD ADD MY LAST NAME.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  MichaelD

Your attitude proves you don’t share his asshole gazing. Be kind to yourself.

MichaelD
MichaelD
10 years ago

Thanks,,,, and no I dont share his asshole gazing not even a little bit. Something about the vows I took in front of my wife family and friends and the commitment I made to my children to be the best person and father i can be. Now my NPD cheating wife on the other hand well she has a diff view on shit oh well I can only control myself and always try do the right thing 🙂

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

Doesn’t it Suck to share a Common Name with an ASSHOLE ?!

Ex has a REALLY Common name too..Damn near CRINGE when I have to hear it SEVERAL times in a Single Day, no matter WHERE I Am.

MichaelD
MichaelD
10 years ago

Yes YES YES a thousand times yes lol 🙂

Sara
Sara
10 years ago
Reply to  MichaelD

Ditto but reversed–I hear his name daily, everywhere.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

Duh. Nix that. I meant yes, me too. What you all said.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago

Try naming kids…no wonder people end up with names like Apple…

Next
Next
10 years ago

Hahahaha THIS laughter is the best medicine! Thank you CITS!!

Drew
Drew
10 years ago

Hey Michael, YOU sound just like my EX. You know he felt the same way about his RB partner and guess what. After a marriage of 20 gyears and three kids, four family deaths and a tragic accident LIFE was too hard for him. So HE left. GOOD RIDDANCE. MICHAEL, let me guess your priorities have been everything but your FAMILY lately or for a long time. Work, play, and all that time “comforting” and sharing intimacies with that new “lady”. My advice. GO BE THAT ASS, you are thinking with your DICK, and your WIFE deserves BETTER. YOUR WIFE DESERVES BETTER. So do your children. You know Showing up in your MARRIAGE requires more than just opening the door and saying, “Honey, I’M home!”

Chump Princess
Chump Princess
10 years ago
Reply to  Drew

“Showing up in your MARRIAGE requires more than just opening the door and saying, “Honey, I’M home!””

THIS!!! Where is the Like times One Million button?

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Drew

Yep.

And I’m soo Sorry ,Drew. for what happened to you *hug*

4evertrue
4evertrue
10 years ago

Chinese proverb, “It is comparison that makes a man miserable.”

Is your ego so inflated Michael that you either;
1) Can’t imagine that your spouse is comparing YOU to another man?
Or,
2) You know without a doubt that she would never act on it and betray her family and the commitments she made?
Don’t suck Michael, be an unmiserable man.

MichaelD
MichaelD
10 years ago

Good married men aren’t “looking for a lady,” Michael. And “ladies” don’t date married men. We call these people — cheaters.

^^ and this.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
10 years ago
Reply to  MichaelD

Good single men don’t hound dog wives/lovers/girlfriends of their “friends”.

You don’t even get to the fact that he’s married and has a family before taking that hard left turn into Sleazeville.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

this…This…THIS.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago

Oh, and a “great provider” for the family provides more than a paycheck: he provides love, honesty, fidelity, a foundation of integrity, his time and attention, his patience, his commitment, his fundamental respect and concern for the needs of his wife and each of his children. He provides kindness on a day-to-day basis. And he provides an example for his children of how to love a partner and work on a marriage. So you are not a great provider, since you have given away your love and attention to another. If you seek out another woman at social events, you are making a fool of your wife, your children’s mother, her husband and her children, in public. Consistently. You are taking time from your So what you provide is betrayal and pain. It just hasn’t come out in the open yet. If you listened to your wife like you listen to this woman who is, in fact, helping your deprive your wife and children of your love and attention, your marriage would likely be more satisfying. But I suspect you are just another jackass looking to justify your “special” feelings for a woman whose disrespect for her own husband is epic.

DeeL
DeeL
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

“”””Oh, and a “great provider” for the family provides more than a paycheck: he provides love, honesty, fidelity, a foundation of integrity, his time and attention, his patience, his commitment, his fundamental respect and concern for the needs of his wife and each of his children. He provides kindness on a day-to-day basis. And he provides an example for his children of how to love a partner and work on a marriage. So you are not a great provider, since you have given away your love and attention to another.””””””

This Michael, all day long if you are doing this and your wife is still distant and “mean” then you should man the fuck up, get a divorce and then go with your “lady”. True ladies don’t want to fuck over ANYONE else’s marriage. No matter how fucking sad you are in it. A real “lady” wouldn’t touch you with a ten foot pole, much less have ANY conversations with you. And really she can’t find somebody who is not married and NOT her husbands friend in your town……… Come on now your just crying a fucking river and nobody including yourself is buying it, as you decided to write on an anti-cheating blog!!!

Hawk
Hawk
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Spot on.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Well Said, Loved.

Gypsy57
Gypsy57
10 years ago

Michael,

You are having an emotional affair. Your affair is rooted in your flailing E-G-O; an ego that is control of YOU, and not the other way around, as it SHOULD be.

You started to feel an attraction toward this woman, and you’ve allowed that attraction to take over your rational self. You are in the ‘affair fog’, and it will be difficult for you to be objective about your marriage, your wife, yourself and this other woman unless you first DITCH THE BITCH. Even if you DO get her out of your life, it will be difficult to get her out of your head without the aid of a competent therapist.

If you really want to know if you’re doing something wrong, ask yourself how you would feel if you knew that your WIFE was in love with a male friend of yours. No? You WOULDN’T like it?

If you know you wouldn’t like it, you have your answer.

G.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
10 years ago
Reply to  Gypsy57

No such thing as “affair fog”. That’s Chump hopium.

If there’s “affair fog”, then “chocolate chip cookie fog” is what happens when you eat a whole plate of chocolate chip cookies when you are supposed to be on a diet.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
10 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

In case it wasn’t clear… “I ate a plate of chocolate chip cookies because I was in a fog” is a lame excuse. You ate all the cookies because you wanted cookies, and whether or not anybody else wanted them was irrelevant, and whether or not eating 5000+ calories as a snack was wise in the long run was irrelevant.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yeah, sadly… it took me a long time to figure that’s all there really is to it.

Sometimes I am slow.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Gypsy57

Michael,

This lady is telling you firmly and politely (which is good because I’m not in a gentle head space right now). If you can’t listen to me because of my potty-mouth, then listen to what Gypsy is telling you.

WhereisMia
WhereisMia
10 years ago

Hey guys, this idiot is on this site as it excites him to talk about his shitty fantasy life and feels safe to listen to all us chumps giving him ‘sound’ advice. This fuckhead is already knee deep in shit and deliciously squirming with anticipation … He ain’t gonna call this off so let’s call it what it is …
Michael… You are a weasel and she is a skank
Thank You 🙂

Drew
Drew
10 years ago
Reply to  WhereisMia

Yes, what WhereisMia said. Rewriting marital history, anyone? Yeah. Funny how those pathetic fantasies get into the way of REAL LIFE.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  WhereisMia

In fairness, she may not be a skank–she’s not doing anything to do the come-hither. For all we know, she could be divorcing because she’s a chump like us.

Noooooo, this is all about Michael–which I believe it’s like in real life with Michael.

Patsy
Patsy
10 years ago

“Noooooo, this is all about Michael–which I believe it’s like in real life with Michael.”

Oooh CITS – that is just awesome! Respect! You described my marriage, too.

Chumpalicious
Chumpalicious
10 years ago
Reply to  WhereisMia

Yeah, he already drank the kool-aid. “I’m not appreciated/respected at home” is the mating call of the cheating narc.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Chumpalicious

I got that line over 20 years ago on public transportation and as a cashier in a grocery store. “My wife doesn’t understand me.” No, your wife understands you too well–THAT’S your problem.

Nord
Nord
10 years ago

So true, chump in the sand. I understand my ex to the core and it drives him insane. He doesn’t want to be known fully or have a deep, deep relationship – it would mean he would have to be straight up and honest. So sad to go through life creating fantasy worlds and false realities.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Nord

After a while, I kept Christian tracts on me to ward off creeps–as soon as they would start, I would smile at them right in the eye and asked them if they had accepted Jesus as their personal saviour.

I figured maybe He could fix ’em, because I sure as hell wouldn’t.

Patsy
Patsy
10 years ago

CITS – brilliant! Ha ha haa!

DeeL
DeeL
10 years ago

“I figured maybe He could fix ‘em, because I sure as hell wouldn’t.”

Love this. I’m going to do this tooo……..LOLOLOL

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago

H A !!!!!!!!

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
10 years ago

HAH! Perfect!

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Miss Sunshine

LOL.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  WhereisMia

What WhereisMia said.

TheMuse
TheMuse
10 years ago

What gets me about these cheaters like Michael, is that they really show their narc colors as they go on and on and on about their lack of fulfillment, how they aren’t appreciated, and they are a really good person; while their Chump is dutifully and loyally faithful to them in the background, forsaking all others for them, and missing out on similar opportunities to date or have emotional affairs of their own.

That’s what makes them cake eaters and assholes. They really don’t consider the Chump’s life to be of any consequence whatsoever other than to keep supplying them with whatever it is they are getting out of the Chump.

Michael, please do your wife a favor and tell her that you have been unfaithful to her, even if you didn’t “do” anything with OW. Your wife deserves to be told the truth and treated as a fully equal partner worthy of respect.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  TheMuse

Uh Huh…True, That.

Louise
Louise
10 years ago

“A lady”? Maybe your wife isn’t a a lady; she’s a woman, not some bullshit figment of your imagination of a genteel bygone era. You know, the woman who lost her figure carrying your kids, who works her ass off making sure your family is cared for, who buys the groceries, cooks the dinner AND cleans up afterwards. The one who makes sure the school work is done, the kids have clean clothes, and the dog has its shots. The one who would love some expression of appreciation from you, but doesn’t get it because you’re to busy fantasizing (and yes, it is nothing more than a fantasy) about some “lady”.

When was the last time you sent your wife flowers for no reason? When is the last time you asked her how she was, or expressed any sort of gratitude for what she does every single day to keep your kids safe, your house clean, your life comfortable? Sounds to me that you have checked out of your marriage and are blaming your wife for YOUR lack of commitment. Perhaps if she felt that you had on ounce of appreciation for her she would respond in kind.

Real women are not fantasies; we are people who have tried to honor that whole “love and cherish” thing during good times and bad. Perhaps if you weren’t so busy idealizing a person you really don’t even know, you might recognize that that you have the love of a good woman, who has been by your side through it all – and who deserves more than you are giving her right now!

And by the way, real marriages to real women take work and lots of it. So if you are the great guy you claim to be, get to getting and start working on your marriage.

Sandy R
Sandy R
10 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Everything about your post is spot on, Louise. There is no way in heaven or hell that we can compete with the perfect sparkly OW/OM. We are mired in everyday life, taking care of all the “unpretty” stuff. You know, normal things that couples deal with. But no matter how hard we work, it’s never enough. In the minds of the cheaters, we are lumps of coal. The OW/OM is the sparkling diamond that we can never be. These cheaters take off when they decide life is just too damn hard for them; that they are trapped with that evil woman that many years ago they thought was wonderful. That evil, horrendous woman who bore their children; and in most cases, gave up many parts of themselves to their marriage and family. We will never be able to match the shine of the AF. It’s so heartbreaking to me, knowing that in their minds, we are NOT GOOD ENOUGH. This post today has really made me cry. This Friday will be my 4 month DDay anniversary. And it’s devastating to realize that nothing we ever did lived up to the expectations of the cheater. But their “true love” is everything we never were and more. As I look back over the last 26 years we spent together, it makes me sick to realize all that we’ve been through; the life events we’ve experienced; having children together..all of it was for naught. I will always question how someone can do this to another person. Especially a person you have spent your lifetime with.

Patsy
Patsy
10 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Sandy, so beautifully written.

It is mind bending. That we felt so deeply and gave of ourselves, but that we were replaceable.

DeeL
DeeL
10 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Sandy, Do not feel that you are replaceable. Only YOU and that asswipe could produce the kids that you have. Good, bad or ugly it is what it is. Our kids make all this “shit” bearable. and do not get me wrong sometimes those same cherished kids can make your life miserable!!!!!! but in the end this world is a better place for you having birthed those kids. We might not see it but somewhere down the line those kids are important !!!!!

I Am A Rock Star*
I Am A Rock Star*
10 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

I’m so sorry. Wednesday will be my 4 month dday anniversary, after 12 mos of him screwing with my head. And 27 years together. But it wasn’t for naught. We were true to our vows and to ourselves and the children are very much a product of love. I have days like you’re having. Let’s prop each other up, we’re worth a lot. Be strong and know you’re not alone. Hugs to you.

Drew
Drew
10 years ago

“We were true to our vows and to ourselves” and to our marriages, “and the children are very much a product of love.” THIS. I can remember the day each child was conceived. They bring so much love into our lives, not to say there weren’t days….One of my greatest wishes for all three, is for them to never know the heartache my ex has brought into my life. I want all three to marry somebody who actually means those vows.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Louise

THIS.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago

What makes me sad for Michael’s wife and kids, and his friend and those kids, is that nothing we say will register on Michael and his “lady” . They’ve already demonstrated that they are entitled to what they want–kibbles for the lady, and kibbles and “special love” for Michael. She is everything he has been looking for, after all! And who knew he was looking, him being married and all. In language, they give themselves away, every time. The jackass wrote me that I didn’t have “actual proof” of his affair with his married, mother of three, damsel in distress. There you go. I have proof (FB page with no posts and one friend, run through his mobile) but not ACTUAL proof, which is the point of cheating on FB…they all give themselves away when they write. There’s no hope for this guy. Just send good thoughts to the poor woman married to him.

Dodged Bullet
Dodged Bullet
10 years ago

Michael, all the observations and advice here are what you know you need to do, which is why you came here to hear it. The moral compass only points one way. If you choose the other way and engage in an affair, love will NOT conquer all. The gut instinct that brought you to Chump Nation is the best part of you. Ignore it, and life will have to teach you the error through experience. Karma is real, and it really is a bitch. And completely just. I know from experience and appreciate the lessons karma has taught me. This is your crossroads, Michael, believe it, and choose wisely.

Patsy
Patsy
10 years ago
Reply to  Dodged Bullet

Well come on Dodged Bullet, please write to Chump Lady and give us your story.

We like to hear that there are good guys out there. The temptation isn’t the issue (in order to not be attracted to others, you would have to not have a pulse).

The issue is the entitlement.

Please write in, DB.

Mehphista
Mehphista
10 years ago

Infidelity is abuse, Michael, simple as that.

WhereisMia
WhereisMia
10 years ago

Ps it’s 1am in Australia and my blood is boiling after reading that dickheads letter and I can’t sleep ! Thanks creep !

Maree
Maree
10 years ago
Reply to  WhereisMia

WhereisMia … it is 1.23 am in Melbourne now and I am having a cup of tea and reading all the wise comments. It don’t get angry anymore because it is not worth it. Sometimes sad because a 44 year history has been lost and you can never replace it. If only ……. .

Regina
Regina
10 years ago

Michael; I remember when I first found out about my husband’s affair, he was telling me “why don’t you go out and have an affair or fling so you can see how great it is?” I told him forget about doing it to you!!~ I wouldn’t do it to myself!! No piece of ass, compliment or gift(s) could make up for the piece of crap I would feel like or the lack of respect I would have for myself going forward if I would betray someone I professed to love and honor for cheap thrills or a ego feeding experience. If you are half a man this will be your biggest regret in your future & what you gave up for it will shock and devastate YOU not to mention your collective family. Since your thoughts are selfish, maybe appealing to this angle of thought will help. AND wake up, she doesn’t even WANT to go forward with a relationship, you are using each other for kibbles. I would be very wary also of going out to look for this elsewhere, as people usually don’t find things they are not (at least subconsciously) looking for. The world is full of pussy’s and dicks looking for validation, this is nothing special.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Regina

THIS…
And they WANT you to SINK To THEIR Fucking LEVEL to make it OK !!!!!
Become UGLY as ME to Make ME FEEL Better
UGH.
FUCKING ASSHOLES !!!!!!!!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  Regina

No hope for this guy–his letter has no empathy for the wife. It’s all me, me, me…

notyou
notyou
10 years ago

Quote: “Why is it that such a good women needs to deal with a divorce? I hate that she is dealing with this and would do anything, yes anything, to make her happy and help her though this…..”

You should be saying these exact words about your own wife:
If you had the same attitude about your own marriage and your own wife, you wouldn’t even be here asking this question. Because you’d have been too busy taking care of your OWN business….as opposed to being recruited into jousting contests that will ultimately see you un-horsed and dishonored.

Your “empathy” needs to be directed toward the proper people…your wife and your children …you know, those people to whom you made a PRIOR commitment to honor, cherish and PROTECT?

Matter of fact, I don’t believe you are experiencing “empathy.” I believe you are experiencing “lust-crazed dementia”…a condition where your ego and your loins have led you to lose sight of anything except your own preferences.

Notice I used the word “preferences” and not the word “needs.” That was a deliberate choice because about 95% of what we erroneously believe we “need” in life is really just “preferences”…and preferences are too often ephemeral and lead us down dead end alleys.

There are no worse lies than the ones we tell ourselves:
And one of the most destructive of lies is, “It’s hopeless.” If you don’t like how things are at home, then you need to man-up and speak up, before you give up. Stop running from conflict and learn how to resolve it in a win-win way. This will likely require professional assistance. Give an objective professional a chance to help you sort out which of your marital concerns are legitimate and which ones are a result of self-delusion.

Nothing of great value is ever easily attained nor is it easily kept:
Your wife has invested an equal chunk of her life in you as you have in her. I doubt she put a gun to your head and forced you to marry her. Give her a FAIR chance to honestly address your concerns, and do it in a solution-focused environment. Don’t run for the hills when the going gets tough….as it will. This is called “courage.” Courage is not the state of being fearless; courage is fearing something and doing it anyway. Do you have courage?

Bottom line:
What you are asking here is for us to condone your dumping of your own integrity. We won’t do that because we understand that a man without integrity is NOT a man.

Jamberry
Jamberry
10 years ago
Reply to  notyou

notyou, you are a font of wisdom. I always look forward to reading your insightful comments. Bravo yet again!

Chump Princess
Chump Princess
10 years ago
Reply to  notyou

“. . . a man without integrity is NOT a man.”

Amen.

notyou, your wisdom is profound and your commentary is always spot on.

SweetSunny
SweetSunny
10 years ago
Reply to  Chump Princess

I like this quote a lot!

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  notyou

THIS ! ! !
They ALWAYS have Such CONCERN for the NEW Piece of ASS…
What About The One Who Committed YEARS of EVERYTHING SHE HAD and WAS for Him and HER EVERYTHING ?!
UGH..Like Giving Away A Million Dollars for 50 CENTs.

Sandy R
Sandy R
10 years ago

“They ALWAYS have Such CONCERN for the NEW Piece of ASS…
What About The One Who Committed YEARS of EVERYTHING SHE HAD and WAS for Him and HER EVERYTHING ?!”
Agreed! On Dday, my STBX was pissed as hell that I had the audacity to confront the OW. He was worried about HER feelings; HER reaction. Didn’t give a flying fuck about me, and the devastation I was experiencing. He wanted to “Talk to her first”. The texts he sent me were unbelievable. Angry at me..someone he spent 26 years with. Worried about here..someone he spent 3 years with. Turns out it didn’t matter anyway, because on Dday he left my daughter and I for her.

DeeL
DeeL
10 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

Awww Sandy, I know what you are talking about. my ex came to the house 3 days later and said ” I went and told ow that I was gonna break it off with her because He did NOT want what happened to him to happen to her” he was referring to my kids not wanting to talk to him…… Really was I supposed to say, Damn you are some kinda man….. Let me dance some more cause I Just Cannot Live Without You!!!!!! These people are screwed up on levels that we will never understand. CL has it right, there is no untangling of the skein!!!!! So why do we need to try to do just that!!!! I pray that we will just be able to LET IT GO!!!! because in the end those damn fucks ARE NOT WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!

I Am A Rock Star*
I Am A Rock Star*
10 years ago
Reply to  Sandy R

More hugs doll. Genuine hugs from me.

Maree
Maree
10 years ago
Reply to  notyou

Always right on target notyou.

Rose
Rose
10 years ago

Ooh, I love this post! We should have more posts from pre-cheaters. So, Michael, everyone is hating on you because our lives/hearts/souls have been destroyed in such an incredible way that we will never be the same again. You can’t imagine the devestation you will cause by taking your affair sexual. There are not words strong enough to describe the pain most of us are in. That aside- here’s my attempt at some real advice. There’s a semi-silly 1980s book called How to Keep Your Man Monogamous. I read it and laughed at some of it but thought at least part of it was solid advice. Here was the advice given to someone actually considering cheating: tell your spouse. Sit down and tell your spouse “I have super strong feelings for this person. I would even say I have fallen in love with them. They give me this, this, and this, which I don’t feel I get from you. Nothing has happened yet. Where do we go from here?” Then, get divorced or work it out. Be real. Take control of reality. Chances are, your wife is not as bad as you say. Chances are, you’re not fulfilling a lot of her needs. If you water your garden, it grows. If you neglect your garden and it doesn’t look that great anymore, well, that’s partly your fault. Be honest and real. You’re so deeply into it at this point you probably won’t. But if you go ahead with the affair, you will destroy your wife in a way that is almost worse than if you actually killed her. You will damage your children forever. That’s the reality of unfaithfulness.

Chrissybob
Chrissybob
10 years ago
Reply to  Rose

I don’t see the need to fill the wife on on that he has feelings for another – if he simply gets out respectfully or choooses to do the work to repair the marriage – no need to create further hurt. It’s hard enough hearing your partner no longer wants to be married, why twist the knife in if it doesn’t need to be.

Rose
Rose
10 years ago
Reply to  Chrissybob

I know what you mean, but don’t you think he’s caught in the game? Like, nothing is real to him at this point. He’s all whining he’s tried and tried to talk to her and she won’t listen. Maybe there’s a little truth in that. But, has he ACTUALLY tried talking to her? With this level of clarity? Sometimes I think they really don’t think their affairs happen in the real world. They don’t seem to think it will affect anything in their real lives.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Rose

Yeah, I think if he starts off with the telling, it’s too close for him to enjoy a pick me dance. He shouldn’t be rewarded for that.

Patsy
Patsy
10 years ago

Telling the truth pours the cold water of reality over the FANTASY.

Most affairs are driven by fantasy. Truth kills that.

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Patsy

I don’t mean he shouldn’t ever tell her–but I think if he begins right off with it, it’s an invite to put him in the centre of attention. I’m thinking of it as something to bring up in therapy. I think he should put the marriage at the centre of his therapy.

If it were more than his fantasies–meeting her alone, tons of email/texts–you know, she’s an active participant–I’d say no, fess up right away.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago

He’s already in an emotional affair. already disrepsecting the wife amd his friend, already broken his commitment to love his wife and be faithful. I’m not convinced that they aren’t having sex. They always say that because people think having sex is the big betrayal. I say that refusing to recognize that his wife is a person who will be devastated by the emotional affair. I think most married people have times when they feel unappreciated and think someone else would appreciate them more; the difference is that most of us stop before disrespecting out spouses by trashing them to another person who isn’t a therapist or counselor trying to help, but instead a married mother or father of three trashing her or hismown spouse.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

I’m also suspicious about his claim they haven’t had physical contact of some type.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

I don’t know what’s wrong with me today–I can’t finish a sentence. I was trying to say that the worst betrayal is treating a spouse/partner as if they don’t exist, refusing to recognize the person as a person. That’s betrayal at the soul level. It’s all bad. And sex is what we can focus on as a physical act that can be seen, that society mostly frowns on.

Mommy Chump
Mommy Chump
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

I’m with Lovedajackass, I suspect Michael has done plenty more than just talking – oral sex, intercourse, who actually cares. He is cheating on his poor wife and kids. He has obviously checked out of his relationship and family life. He has therefore broken his marriage vows. He is a douche bag. The woman he is cheating with is a douchebag. These are not people I would ever be friends with. The disrespect he has already shown to his wife and kids and his OW has shown to her husband and kids is disgusting. All this ass is offering up is pathetic excuses to justify emotionally cruel actions that will have devastating consequences. I wish we could tell his wife and the OW husband to dump their asses and join us for support.

The real question toe is why would this jerk wrote such a stupid letter to CL. He couldn’t possibly believe he would get a shred of support! What is his real motive?

Sara
Sara
10 years ago
Reply to  Mommy Chump

Maybe it really was a fake- or a troll? Except he wrote CL that he’d taken our extreme bitch slapping to heart and and decided not to pursue Wonder Woman?

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

“I was trying to say that the worst betrayal is treating a spouse/partner as if they don’t exist, refusing to recognize the person as a person. That’s betrayal at the soul level. It’s all bad. And sex is what we can focus on as a physical act that can be seen, that society mostly frowns on.”

Totally agree with you, LaJ. I’m not saying the sexual betrayal isn’t excruciating, but for me, it’s the emotional betrayal that hurts the worst. It’s the negation of me as a person. Like you said, ‘betrayal at the soul level.’ Thanks for this.

Regina
Regina
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

The other problems with taking to sexual level is diseases, exposing your partner to untold gazillions of other sexual partners when they are trusting you to not use “protection,” unexpected (or expected) babies, which regardless if this happens, this risk was taken, and most likely sharing “facts” about you in the bedroom & elsewhere that are at least unflattering & most likely not true. I am sorry, but I will never believe that anaffair that goes on for more than one meeting does not have emotional components to it. The emotions are building before the PA. Also, all the things he/she said to you in bed have now been said to someone else WHILE THEY WERE WITH YOU and now have little or no meaning, they are just what he uses to get ANY woman excited to be with him. And of course as CL says no affair would be complete without the “poor sausage” stories that can net them some extra attention, sex acts, etc. Bottom line, you are no longer special in any way shape or form. And so right, “betrayal at a SOUL level.”

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  Regina

No question that the possibility of disease and pregnancy are terrible comsequences of sexual affairs, as well as the excruciating pain of the porno movie that plays in a Chump’s head upon discovery that an affair is physical. It’s all awful–the betrayal,, the disrespect, the lying, the stupid excuses, the gaslighting, the deliberate distancing and trashing of a partner’s character to justify the cheating.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
10 years ago

We have been talking for a long time …

Have you told your … ahem “friend” about this? Perhaps shared the conversation topics?

Be honest. There’s been a lot of sneaking around “for a long time”, I bet.

What did Warren Buffett say about integrity?

Are you “willing to have any contemplated act appear the next day on the front page of their local paper – to be read by your spouse, children and friends – with the reporting done by an informed and critical reporter” ?

Somehow I think the Integrity Ship sailed a while back, so how do you regain your integrity?

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

Exactly. As CL said, she turned his head and his attention has been elsewhere–“for a long time.”

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
10 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

“your local paper” forgot to edit their->your in the paraphrase.

Diana L
Diana L
10 years ago

Michael, if you’re serious about your marriage, you need to get to counseling to work on the problems. You also need to cut off contact with this woman.

I want to stress that this woman is not a lady. Being a lady or a good person is not just about sex. Having an emotional affair is still cheating people, it’s still dishonest. Don’t fool yourself that she’s good and pure just because you haven’t had sex.

The good news is that if you haven’t crossed the line, you may still be able to save the real thing with your wife, if you dump this woman now and dedicate yourself to your wife.

I don’t see divorcing your wife as the honorable thing to do here. First, you’ve already cheated emotionally. Leaving her for the woman you talk to all the time but haven’t slept with isn’t honorable. The honorable thing to do is to dump the emotional affair and get honest with yourself and get some counseling that is truly aimed at working on your marriage, not an excuse to swap wives.

As others have said, do not believe that you know this woman. Your wife and the life you have with her are real. Sympathetic conversations are easy when you don’t have to do anything for each other or make any sacrifices.

blue
blue
10 years ago

I’m not sure if anything we say will make a difference to Michael. I don’t think he sought out Chumplady because he was looking for someone to stop him (though at some level he knows it’s wrong); I think he was looking for someone to give him the moral go-ahead, because this is different “different”–he’s a “good” man; she’s a “lady”, a “wonderful” woman, a “great” mother, not some “cheap whore,” and he deserves to be “happy.” After all, if Chumplady gives the green light, then he can pursue this “lady” with a free conscience.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

LOL…None too Swift, Is He ?

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

i think irony is lost on this guy, as he fails to see the his own wife ought to be leaving him. Maybe he thinks it’s “be a cheater, gain a life'” even if it’s someone else’s.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  blue

Yep. That’s what’s up here. And not one nice word about the woman he’s cheating out of a real marriage–she’s nothing to him, literally.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
10 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

Yes, his narcissism and entitled self-absorption sure shone through his words, didn’t it?

Diana L
Diana L
10 years ago

P.S. – about the question – is it wrong to have feelings for a friends’ spouse? Everybody does sometimes.

What’s wrong is spending lots of time talking to each other and sympathizing with each other, especially when you know you have these feelings. Comparing your wife to her is a sign that you’re doing something wrong.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Diana L

NO…. I Don’t believe EVERYONE Does..
Sorry,Diana.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  Diana L

Yes, what you pay attention to, what you feed, grows stronger. He’s fed his EA with his schmoopie. And preparing a shit sandwich for the wife and kids to share. He’s a “great provider.”

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice
10 years ago

Michael, I stopped reading after you said you were “51 years young.” That phrase told me pretty much everything I need to know about you and your situation.

Here’s a tip: Neverland is not a real place, and this chick is not your Wendy. Do yourself and your family a favour and grow the hell up already.

Sheesh.

Drew
Drew
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

Peter Pan by Patty Griffin is a song I played over and over and over again. Who are these people?! FMT you are right, ‘grow the fuck up!’

Doop
Doop
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

FoolMeTwice,
I was scrolling down to post the exact same thought — great chump minds think alike…

Chump in the Sand
Chump in the Sand
10 years ago
Reply to  Doop

Yeah, well, you read further than I did before having the alarm bells go. The title says it all–and seriously, you’d think you’re old enough to know that we all get feelings, it’s what you do with them that matters.

I wish people like that could spend their lives with their bodies reflecting themselves–so if you’re brain is still stuck in high school, be all pimply, awkward, voice-breaking and too young for contact lenses.

Louise
Louise
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

I think you have captured Micheal’s essence; a Peter Pan wanna be, tired of the “grind” of a real marriage. He’s this young, cool dude, chained to a drudge. Well, let me call the bullshit card on that one. He’s a middle aged man, deluding himself into believing he still looks 35, and fooling only one person-himself.

BloomingRoseinWinter
BloomingRoseinWinter
10 years ago
Reply to  Louise

Yea..The 51 Years “Young”
ASSHOLE.. You’re MORE than HALFWAY to THE GRAVE…

Stop ACTING LIKE A LIL PUNK, PECKERWOOD..and ACT your Fucking AGE…with some INTEGRITY.

you Don’t WRECK LIVES over a ” Crush ” DUMBSHIT.
At YOUR AGE, NONE of US should HAVE to be TELLING you To GROW UP !!! You HAVE A WIFE AND KIDS..It’s WELL PAST TIME for THAT.

Next
Next
10 years ago

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dani
dani
10 years ago
Reply to  FoolMeTwice

Amen to this!!!!!

KT
KT
10 years ago

Michael: You have to force yourself to do the right thing. There’s no two ways about it. You’re standing at a crossroads. If you go down this path, the relationship will almost certainly move from emotional affair status to a physical affair. You need to stop talking to this woman (if she’s really that great she’ll understand) and get yourself into marriage counseling.

I’m a little bit more sympathetic because I’ve almost gone down a bad path myself. My marriage is really freaking bad. Like, physical abuse and Craigslist cheating bad. An ex boyfriend who’s always really been an amazing friend to me found out his wife is a cheating disordered POS. Cue the long Facebook chat sessions, the discussions about “what ever happened to us?”, and everything else that happens when two hurting people with a past start talking too frankly. Even in the face of a bad set of circumstances, it’s still wrong. It would be even more wrong to take the relationship physical and leave my husband (as bad as things have been) for the ex. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, deserves a fair shake. They don’t deserve to be compared to someone on the outside, an unknown fantasy.

Do the right thing and break contact while you determine whether your marriage itself is flawed or whether you’re a victim of “the grass is greener” syndrome. If you’re not fully mentally and emotionally present while you’re making this evaluation, you’re not doing right by your wife of 20+ years. Even if you end up divorced, she deserves at least that much.

I hope you figure things out.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  KT

And I would suggest that even post-divorce, it’s a good idea to stay away from the FB and cellphone chatting until you have been on your own for a year and can get into a real dating relationship with a friend. Until you see how that person treats you when you are the only man/woman in his or her life, you won’t know whether that relationship has what it takes to become a partnership. I know this all too well; the jackass was one of my best friends and gave me a lot of support while I was ending a marriage. He was great on the phone and fine in person, given our very busy professional lives. But he prefers woman who are married or in crisis–the “knight in shining armor.” And other relationships with people of the opposite sex distract us from the real work of resolving our past relationship, getting clear with ourselves about who WE were in the relationship, and fixing our picker. There is no substitute for feeling the pain, mourning the marriage/relationship, doing the healing, being alone long enough to know ourselves again as someone outside of a couple. I would caution anyone from getting into an intense friendship with someone you are or could be sexually and emotionally attracted to. Fall in love with yourself! Talk to your platonic friends or your siblings! Or you can end up in a very bad place with a much longer healing time. Spoken from experience.

Sara
Sara
10 years ago

“Don’t be a douchebag, Michael.” Words to live by. I appreciate that you’ve come to C.L. for feedback, I hope you take it in. Michael you sound like a high school kid, infatuated with this woman and everything you’ve projected her in your fantasy. Maybe she’s more interesting to you because she’s not interested in you? You want to do everything in the world for her–so she will love and adore your long unsung heroism? That’s about you, not her, and it certainly is unfair to your wife and family. Out of bounds. You are already in dangerous territory and you are hurting your wife by siphoning this part of yourself into shmoopsie rather than getting help for your marriage or playing fair. If shmoopsie is the woman you’ve described she wouldn’t want to break up a marriage. She’s told you no, C.L. says stop it now or get a divorce. What are you going to do with your feelings when she hands them back to you? Maybe you will man up and use this as an opportunity to strengthen your marriage or make a clean break. But this is not “giving and giving” to your wife and family. Feelings, yes. But if we all acted from our reptilian brains every time we had one we’d have to start living in lagoons. Best of luck to you.

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
10 years ago
Reply to  Sara

I’m too busy being hung up on the fact that he apparently doesn’t have good boundaries and has been having inappropriate conversations with the wife of his “friend”.

With friends like those, who needs enemas? Right?

kb
kb
10 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

Right on, TimeHeals.

STBX started talking about the conversations he’d had at work with the temps his company had hired. All the temps were young, female, and the majority were temps because they didn’t have the maturity to keep a regular full-time job. I told him that he was spending way too much emotional energy and knew way too much about these people’s personal lives. He countered that this is what they talked about, and he felt sorry for them. I told him it was his job to ensure that the office had a more professional tone to it. Especially when the conversations turned toward guys they’d slept with, he needed to have the guts to ask them to tone things down a bit for the office.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  kb

If he was the supervisor, he could have been sued for sexual harassment because the work environment had been “sexualized.” It happened to a supervisor I had; the man had actually not harassed the person who brought the suit, but the lawyers went after the workplace environment.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
10 years ago
Reply to  TimeHeals

Exactly, TimeHeals. Here’s something to think about: maybe Michael (and the Jackass, who may well be Michael or his twin separated at birth) likes to compete with his friend. Once I stopped spackling, I could see the X’s pattern of getting involved with women who were married or in the process of separating, etc. I know of one situation where he was in a professional relationship with the husband/boyfriend of one AP and in the current case, he knows the whole family and lives a few blocks away. I read something last week about how some people on the character disorder spectrum like “complicated relationships”–that triangle or quadrangle thing. The competition with the partner of the OW/OM–coming out the “winner,” as if anyone ever wins in infidelity. Plenty of kibbles in being “better” than a spouse of 25 years. The X in my case has evidently kicked the OW to the curb. Once I found out, he risked major exposure in his own social circle and of course he was no longer in a power position in relation to me because I knew what he was doing. And he knew I knew. I think there’s a lot of power bullshit that goes in in these situations. The sex is just the playing field.

FoolMeTwice
FoolMeTwice