Dear Chump Lady, Where are all the single available men?
Dear Chump Lady,
Please throw some light on the very stormy waters of the dating world out there. The last page of your book encourages to love again strong and true, and I get this implicitly but WHERE do we meet these new guys? (Especially for those of us who were dealt the wonderful shit sandwich in our fifties and over…)
Where are single available men? (If I hear one of my friends ever mention the grocery store’s alleys as possible love lanes one more time, why, I am liable to wring her little wrinkled neck with my very own hands! The judge will understand and go easy on me..) Chump Lady, help us understand where we can spot and get to speak with these mythical creatures. On line? If so, which sites would you recommend? Please let us know. We are getting a bit lonely and would really love to hear your take on the dating scene live or online.
Thanks,
Pascale
Dear Pascale,
The supply of Single Available Men are all in a knotty pine-paneled man cave, enjoying brewskis and watching the Detroit Pistons in Ferndale, Michigan. I’m not allowed to divulge the street address. To do so would compromise the national Single Available Man strategic reserve.
Occasionally one is released, by presidential pardon and an act of Congress, into the dating pool. There you must discern for yourself amongst the thousands of douchebags, predators, and married men if he’s really Single, Available, and decent. Please know you are competing against hordes of other 50+ year-old women for the one, pardoned Single Available Man. Hope you look 30 and your tits don’t sag. Best of luck!
May I just say how much I hate this question — where are all the single, available men? There is NO RIGHT ANSWER. The whole question is a horrible set up. It’s a “how long have you been beating your wife?” kind of no win. To answer means I think a) there is a national Single Available Man shortage; b) I think you need a partner to be happy; and c) they’re all hiding somewhere and I can tell you how to find one.
A) I don’t think there is a Single Available Man shortage anymore than there is a Decent, Not Batshit Crazy, Solvent Woman crisis. There are just people. Some are awesome. Some suck. Go figure it out and have some boundaries as you explore.
B) You don’t require a partner to be happy. In my book (the first one and the forthcoming one) I say you should love again and I’m very clear that does not necessarily mean a partner. I say go adopt an orphan, join a historic preservation society, or grown peonies. Quote, “I have no idea what your personal happiness looks like,” unquote, it just doesn’t belong with your cheater.
I do think you should have courage and it is not impossible to love another person again.
C) I can’t tell you how to find a Single, Available Man. I only really know a few men very well. I’m married to one and am the daughter of another. They’re not available. My 18-year-old son is single and available, but if a 50-year-old woman came after him I’d run her off waving a shovel.
I’m really the last person you should ask how to date. I’m a flaming dork. It’s only by the grace of God that I met my husband (another flaming dork). The only dating tips I have are know your worth and healthy relationships are reciprocal. After that, you’re on your own.
Ack! Tracy this is very unsatisfying advice! It’s all very fine and good for you to be so blithe about partnering up, you there from the comfort of your Happily Married status. Apparently you’ve forgotten the dating trenches! You suck!
(Sigh)
Having a good partner is a great blessing. I won’t lie. It’s awesome. BUT IT’S NOT THE ONLY BLESSING IN LIFE. Seriously, live life today as if it’s never going to happen for you. Because you don’t know if it will or won’t. Do not predicate your happiness on finding your One True Love. That very expectation sets you up for unhappiness. Makes you feel a wee bit desperate. Makes you compare yourself to the More Fortunate. Don’t do this to yourself!
We don’t enjoy every blessing. Not every one of us is rich, thin, healthy, fertile or possessing friends, a loving family, children on the honor roll, or six-pack abs. We all get some blessings, but we don’t get ALL the blessings.
And that’s okay.
I’m not saying every blessing is equivalent. Having healthy children isn’t the same as having thin thighs. I’m just saying that it’s okay to not have EVERY blessing.
You have to adapt and overcome. Look, you might not be born rich — you can go out and hustle and work three jobs and it might happen for you. You might become better off than you were, your hard work might get you a Leer jet. Or, it might just make you an exhausted person who works three jobs. You can do things to improve your odds, but you might not get that blessing.
You might not be able to have children. Maybe you really want children and maybe God gave you a crap uterus. You can let that fact make you miserable. Or you can adopt. Or you can be an wonderful involved aunt or Big Sister. Or you can take all that money you would spend on daycare and frozen pizza and vacation in Europe instead. What you cannot do is predicate your happiness on having a functional uterus.
Similarly, you might want to find Mr. Right. You can online date your heart out, get fixed up with every widower at your church, and lay in wait in the frozen vegetable aisle. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won’t. But don’t predicate your happiness on it happening. Go be your best, happiest self without a relationship and see what happens.
For what it’s worth, I think the odds are good of pairing up again. All people (unless they are sociopaths) want to bond with other people. We crave intimacy and connection. I do think we should all be open to connection with others.
Good people are not “mythical.” They exist. You exist! Just get out there and live life and I trust you’ll cross each other’s paths eventually. Maybe this will result in a boyfriend or maybe a really great set of friends and a vibrator. I don’t know. Good luck.
Really, I will get to the contest winners later today. Sorry for the delay — Tracy
Do you single ladies really want to know where all the decent and loyal single men are? Are you sure? We are in the fucking “friend zone” where you left us, while going after the hot guy or the fucking jerk you thought you could change. We been here just being fucking ignored or being the shoulder you cried on when said man didn’t change or dumped you or some other bullshit. And I know the reverse is true as well, don’t think me misogynistic I am just a touch bitter about this shit these days. I was sick of these questions before I got married and now that I am a single man again I’m sick of them again. Nothing worse for a man or woman (in a dating sense because we have all been through much worse) than liking someone and being very attracted to them than hearing them bitch about how they can’t find a good man/woman. We are right here fuckers and I for one am sick and tired of waiting for them.
Paul Proteus has a video on YouTube on this subject.
Paul Proteus’s you tube video on this subject ” Where have all the good men gone?” adresses this.
Reading the back and forth comments was a bit disturbing to me. We are among chumps, which means our decency, and basic needs for respect and acceptance of our views of the world have been violated in the most vicious of ways by people who were supposed to have our backs.
I believe that yesterday’s debate on the “friend-zone”, feminism and how to treat others heating up was a symptom to our chump wounds. If your life with your cheater was anything like mine, becoming vulnerable by expressing my opinions, pushing to be understood and respected for my views is central to re-build my self-esteem.
One super helpful approach I’ve learned is to manage my 90/10s. 90% of the emotions I am feeling about a certain situation stem from my traumatic experiences that the situation reminded me of, and only 10% of the emotions I am feeling are warranted by the situation itself.
Basically, when a situation elicits a big rush of emotions in me, I retreat before reacting. I draw two columns on a piece of paper, and write down 10 on top of the left column and 90 on top of the right column. Then I get to work on what emotions are really legitimate to the situation (list under the 10 column) vs what emotions are triggered by the situations but are attributable to the trauma I am recovering from (list under the 90 column). This helps me re-attribute my emotions to the right sources (current situation or trauma re-ignited by some elements of the current situation), and react and respond to situations in what I hope is the most constructive way.
Well, except when a situation is created by my X. In those cases, I still react with the subtlety of a Balrog.
Let’s forge on to Meh CN, with compassion, constructive criticism, and supportive accountability!
Hi Accu
Was in your position many years ago so I can empathize. Here is my opinion based on years of experience.
You are being put in that particular box because it does serve a purpose, the problem is that the purpose is not for your benefit. You satisfy a need. You have your little place and that is how you are viewed. That is all you are to these females you socialise with. What most comments failed to acknowledge was the level of duplicity involved to keep you around. Take my word for it when I tell you the females know exactly how you feel and I am going to be brutal here, they could not care less. They could sit you down and explain how your feelings will never be reciprocated but then again it is not in their interest to acknowledge this fact, is it now? 🙂
There are other men in your female associates lives that full fill other needs. Some are brothers, others are cousins, fathers, gentle lovers, rough lovers, sensitive males, stone hearted bastards, sexist “misogynist pig” bosses, gentle feminist metro sexual colleague,agony aunts, kind and protective gay friends etc. Take your pick, sky is your limit just like female needs.
They all serve a purpose and they never get mixed, incest aside. Everybody is categorised and put into a certain box where they may be accessed in times of need. That need may or may not arise in the next 20 years. It does not matter, what matters is that you serve a purpose. You are an useful asset and will be kept around. It is almost impossible for a male to progress or transition form one box into another. Even if you succeeded it would be a futile and wasteful endeavour. Unless you are gasping for female attention and validation. You could dedicate your time to something much more satisfying and productive.
The above is female strategic thinking and survival planing 101. Always keep a pool of assets around, you never know when you might need one.
I have no problem with that in a world such as ours and considering what has been done to women since the beginning of time. But I used to have a problem, don’t care much any more, with the smoke and mirrors tactics used and men being kept in the dark. Considering due process, rule of law, legislation, career availability, family law and everything else that enables women to enjoy successful lives I am of the opinion that this kind of duplicity is an archaic thing of the past and has to go.
I would suggest reading The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar which came out many years ago. The cat is out of the bag, and has been for some time, and from what I have seen there is no way most young men today would either put up with the nonsense or make the same mistakes my generation made. They are just too self absorbed to begin with and sexual roles have become almost meaningless.
Hope I have been of some help. Don’t pay attention to wannabe roosters, always seeking female validation, and negative commenter’s. You are into something here and I can tell you that you are on the right path. What you do next is up to you. Best of luck.
JFC! I guess that makes me the wannabe rooster. Cock-a-doodle-doo!
Dubito
You have a lot of self righteous anger in you. Why are you so angry? What are you trying to prove? Who are you trying to impress? Are you not capable of empathy for a fellow human being in distress?
People come to this forum hurt, damaged or wounded whatever you want to call it. I don’t think Accu is very much interested in your feminist credentials. I know I am not.
You are a feminist? Good on you. There is no inherent virtue in being a feminist nor is there any inherent vice. It is just an ideology which has become obsolete. It does not provide real answers to 21st century problems. You want proof? Where are the most militant feminists when it comes to Yazidi women? How about Greek women selling themselves, in the name of fiscal responsibility and austerity, for 15 Euros to feed their families I guess the fire brands are too busy chasing the toothless “privileged” Caucasian males on MSNBC and SALON. And no, I am not of European descent myself.
I don’t know who Accu is but I don’t tolerate attacks on people who have suffered enough so I show him my support.
Challenge accepted King Kong. That is the projected image after all is it not? A confident “alpha male” gorilla? Who knows you may even get to impress a “little” blonde around here.
By the way I came across this hilarious website some time ago. Talk about obliteration of self and Ishtar worship. Have a look, I think it is right up your alley just like Jezebel.
http://mustbethistalltoride.com/
P.S
Please don’t curse, it is not good for your blood pressure and after all you are the last of your kind 🙂
Hey OTRA, good to hear from you!
Hope the road is smoothing out.
x-Meh.
Hi Mephista
Thanks! Good to hear from you too. At the moment the road looks more like mines of Moria,:)
But I keep moving forward. One day at the time. Tomorrow and tomorrow………
All the best Mephista, stay healthy and strong.
+100
You know how it is, right, ladies? You know a guy for a while. You hang out with him. You do fun things with him–play video games, watch movies, go hiking, go to concerts. You invite him to your parties. You listen to his problems. You do all this because you think he wants to be your friend.
But then, then comes the fateful moment where you find out that all this time, he’s only seen you as a potential girlfriend. And then if you turn him down, he may never speak to you again. This has happened to me time after time: I hit it off with a guy, and, for all that I’ve been burned in the past, I start to think that this one might actually care about me as a person. And then he asks me on a date.
I tell him how much I enjoy his company, how much I value his friendship. I tell him that I really want to be his friend and to continue hanging out with him and talking about our favorite books or exploring new restaurants or making fun of avant-garde theatre productions. But he rejects me. He doesn’t answer my calls or e-mails; if we’d been making plans to do something before this fateful incident, these plans mysteriously fail to materialize. (This is why I never did get around to seeing the Hunger Games movie. Not to name any names, but thanks a lot, Tom.) Later, when I run into him at social events, our conversations are awkward and lukewarm. This is because the moment we met, he put me in the girlfriend-zone, and now he can’t see me as friend material.
I must say that I find this really unfair. I mean, I’m a nice girl. I have a lot to offer as a friend, like not being a douchebag and stuff. But males just don’t want to be friends with nice girls like me. They can’t help it, I guess; it’s just how they’re wired, biologically. Evolution conditioned our male hominid ancestors to seek nice girls as mates and form friendship bonds only with the other dudes that they hunted mammoths with. It’s true–I know this because I studied hominids in my fifth-grade science class.
So what’s the answer? Should I take up mammoth-hunting in an attempt to appeal to the friendship centers of men’s primal lizardbrains? Should I keep making guy “friends” and then prevent them from making a move on me by subtly undermining their self-confidence? Should I just give up on those manipulative, game-playing, two-faced bastards once and for all? I don’t know. I mean, I’d really like to have a true friendship with a guy someday, but it’s so hard to trust and respect them when they never say what they mean–and you never know when you might be relegated to the girlfriend-zone.
I think what no one has expressed yet is what a WASTE OF TIME it is for people to spend even one more moment in the company of someone who doesn’t have the same relationship goals as they do.
Seriously. If you’ve been friend-zoned, walk the hell away now, not later. Unrequited love drives us to do stupid things like WASTE TIME hanging around with people who want nothing more than to have their egos inflated by being followed everywhere by someone whose tongue is dragging along the floor. And if you’ve been girlfriend-zoned, walk the hell away because you’ll always have your boundaries overstepped by someone who’s constantly looking for an ‘in’. Don’t encourage it. Walk away.
On the flip side, if you’re the ‘friend-zonER’, you have to stop this stringing along and pursuit of friendship kibbles. Stop behaving like a spoiled duchess or duke who gets to dictate all terms and conditions across your fiefdom. Stop making play-dates with people who hold a torch for you and then laughing in their faces when they think it’s a signal that you might be interested. Stop bullying them. Take off your fucking crown, get down off your pedestal, put your big boy/big girl pants on, let them go, and leave them alone. You are WASTING their TIME and YOU KNOW IT.
“girlfriend-zone” google it. Well said FLcc!
@ accubonded
You sound like one of those very bitter “Nice Guys.”
See this page for more:
The Problem With “Nice Guys”
No more Mr. Nice Guy.
Accubonded, I hope that after going off on your angry rant, you read all the responses to it below and see how many of us chumps went for the Nice Guy and STILL got cheated on. So, you’re wrong.
Also…I hate to bring this up, but didn’t you yourself go for the sparkly mate who turned it to be a rampant cheater? I wonder about the poor, sad women you’ve friendzoned in the past.
I hear you loud and clear, @accubonded…I get the, “Whose you’re hot friend???” Whenever I go out with friends, or the ones I try to chat up aren’t interested in me “that” way, or whatever.
I’m still in the “livin’ my life for me” right now, not really out there looking- it’s only been about 5 months since the divorce was final, and about 10 months since he moved out, so I know I’m still in the baby stages of my singlehood, but still, I know exactly what you’re talking about!!!
Bravo, Accubonded. Speaking from experience (passing over great friends for the A-holes), I can tell you NOW, in hindsight and years of therapy, that it was because this chump was so conditioned by her narcissist father that she thought it was love only if another narcissist crossed her path. i had no idea what reciprocal love was like.
Better put on my asbestos gloves here, OWE! Did I use that term at all, the only thing we were owed was the loyalty that our vows promised. Didn’t happen so yes I’m bitter, what I expect is honesty. If you aren’t attracted to someone then tell them, everyone is a grown up and can handle the truth. That is my complaint, that you don’t get the honesty, and we are all guilty of not giving the honesty at times too. I was wondering what I was missing since this summer and I just found it. Getting torn to shreds for expressing my opinion, thanks for reinforcing that lesson to keep things to myself. Big thumbs up
accubonded said: “That is my complaint, that you don’t get the honesty, and we are all guilty of not giving the honesty at times too. I was wondering what I was missing since this summer and I just found it. Getting torn to shreds for expressing my opinion, thanks for reinforcing that lesson to keep things to myself. Big thumbs up.”
You just got a big dose of honesty, as requested.
Man, I know not everybody in the forum is particularly great remembering stories and keeping track of people’s users. But Accu has always been a good contributor to stories. I’m really surprised that people chewed you out so much.
I get it, we are tired of the whole term “Friendzone”, and everyone experiences are not the same.
My Ex was also a 300lbs nerd, who only I was in awe off, then he lost a bunch of weight and became a superstar or whatever he thinks he is. Now I don’t even know what type of guy to go for, obviously cheaters and narcs can come in many shapes and sizes. I tend to be a lot more cautious I like becoming friends with people.
In my very limited experiences these past months, sometimes I see a guy and I want to date him, we hang out and then I don’t want to date them anymore, but they are nice people and I still like spending time with them. It is just awkward if people have different expectations.
Now I’m very confused. This post was about knowing where all the single guys are to date! I’ve been seeing someone for over three months as a friend. I’ve never dated unlike the cheater who led a double life. This shit is all new to me. I’m told to give guys my phone number, become friends with guys, chat men uo, go on sites, and flirt. The best advice my therapist gave was to do what I am comfortable with which is having friendships with men. Friend zone to me implies getting to know someone. That is what I’ve been doing with someone I feel safe with. I’m floored to think this is viewed as sexist in any way. I’ve had guys 20 years younger hit on me, old toothless men call me beautiful and it’s refreshing to enjoy myself with someone who enjoys my company without being pressured. Accubonded, you are so very justified in being bitter. We never asked for this shit and navigating life after infidelity is difficult enough without having our honesty and integrity challenged in a place we come to for support. I’m disappointed.
It’s okay, accubonded, I got torn up in the forums this weekend for NOT expressing an opinion. Catch-22.
It’s true many on CL un-friendzoned nice guys to marry them, only to find out they were cheaters.
Others of us did go for the narkly, sparkly types and got our heads handed to us when they turned out to be cheaters (raising hand, which is why I think your post had truth, but few truths apply to everyone). The same thing happens to men who want the Supermodel look and leave those of us with more mundane looks in the dust.
And Dat is right, that we can’t be physically or emotionally attracted to every person we like. Attraction is a strange alchemy, and for people we like but aren’t attracted to, there’s the “friend zone” (which is metaphoric, so let’s not all get our knickers in a twist about the term; it’s a meme).
Don’t stop contributing, even when it’s controversial–just put on your Kevlar ; ).
Hey Accu, you’re still hurting man. You’re a good guy, and betrayal hurts like a bitch. What is just the puss and pain of healing gets labeled as bitter. With great honesty, the TONE of your post, not so much the words, tells people you’re not healed enough from the past to date yet.
Dude, it takes me two seconds to give myself a wicked cut on the line, and two weeks before it stops hurting, and a month before its fully healed. Betrayal cuts deep into the soul. You were owed something and got fucked over. Its gonna hurt like a motherfucker for a while.
I spent months keening over my lost love and my broken heart. A neighbor actually knocked on my door one afternoon after therapy to check on me. He said, “I heard you weeping, are you ok, is everything all right?”
I for one, am glad CN was a place for you that you felt safe enough to vent. Braver man than I, Gunga-Din.
Hey accubonded, I’ve heard the same thing from my brother before he got married. As my brother used to say, “Why do girls always want to date jerks?”. Its the same reason many men want to date bitchy women. We live in a culture that heavily equates good looks with good things inside (character, empathy, kindness, etc.) My brother is a stand up dude, good looking, and really the most genuine person you’d ever meet. We share those characteristics, and our mom, the main figure in shaping our values, raised us with the adage, “Be Yourself”. We turned out super smart, loving, genuine, and could care less about being sparkly. Life is a lot more fun when you are not worried about “looking good” or looking “right”.
At his wedding, it was the most gratifying thing to witness his friends, many of whom I had never met, to be genuine, stand-up people, all of whom were so delighted to be a part of the wedding. His wife is gorgeous, smart, funny, warm, and one of the most loyal and loving people I’ve ever met. Really, she’s a knockout babe with a big, big heart. Both of them had experienced bad relationships and both were chumps.
I am really sorry you have experienced such pain and rejection over being a nice man who values relationships (which always start with friendship) over getting laid. My personal experience with players is that they sparkle, but they are boring both in and out of bed. Women who have sexual confidence and experience know the difference, and I’m not looking for a player. Just a man who has confidence and is willing to try out a relationship.
One of the hardest things to find is partnership with a person who is emotionally available and ready for a relationship. That begins with learning to love oneself and knowing our self worth. I have been shit on and rejected a lot in dating. And most of those people were not great people. I hate adages, but once you get past this mourning and grief, remember, “Water seeks its own level”.
My ex wasn’t sparkly. He was handsome, nerdy, and not ready for a real relationship. His emotional immaturity and lack of integrity as a person were what tanked the relationship. I loved the crap out of him, he drove me crazy, we were good together in and out of bed, but he wasn’t ready for real love and reciprocity, and so he sabatoged our relationship. I didn’t control that and it devastated me. It took me FOUR YEARS to put my shattered heart back together to risk it again.
I just opened my online dating profile. Its the same as it was when I met my ex online five years ago. There’s plenty of sparkly types, plenty of players, pervs, and predators. It requires time and energy, and a lot of discernment. I hope, when you’re ready, you remember there are 7 billion people on the planet, and I am sure there are at least 100 that you could have a happy relationship with. Create some good filters, know what you will and won’t put up with, and have fun dating. And remember you are mighty, so kick those fuckers to the curb when they disrespect you. Momma don’t put up with no mess. You won’t either.
Many of us fell for the narkly sparkles not based on looks or “Bad boy” excitement, but on how they presented themselves to us as Mr. Nice Guy. My Ex certainly did, starting out love bombing and saying how much he loved kids (then 16 years later cited them as the reason he cheated… saying I paid too much attention to them). He is not and wasn’t back then conventionally attractive, but he attracted me with his personality. Holding open doors, saying please and thank you, fixing things for me the single mom. It was only after we were deeply involved and living in a shared household he started raging at me and pointing out my many flaws, daily. Still, never in a million years would have pegged him for a liar and cheater, so good was his mask of Good Guy. He’s still out there wearing it now, despite factually being a liar, cheater, abuser, and deviant but portraying himself as the poor sausage victim for the new woman. It’s his M.O. and how he survives.
Lately even 2.5 years post D-Day and kicking him out, I still get lonely and it seems unfair that he waltzed right into OW’s life where he’s no doubt repeating the above behaviors (except she has no kids but lots more money than me). But I’d still rather be alone and lonely than being cheated on and lied to, and feeding and supporting a person who held me in such low regard as to actually tell me to my face that I was a good Plan B for him.
Have looked at dating sites and unfortunately so much of it is based on looks and what they say about themselves and I just don’t want to put myself through all the anxiety of meeting in person and trying to figure out if it’s real or a mask, so I will continue to sit it out, forever if need be.
Ophelia fuck pleasing anyone else’s ideal especially a cheaters limited take on relationships. Everyone has insecurities. Take care of yourself and know your beautiful inside and out.
When all my friends were dating I held out for a Good Guy. No one was interested in dating him. We dated five years before getting married. He was my best friend. Fast forward to 36 years and I have a druggie, drunk, gambling whore shouting about what a good guy I lost and how does it feel to be alone as he sheepishly looks on like he’s a victim.
The best outcome ever was divorcing him, working on myself and gaining a life. Good Guys don’t lie and cheat.
I now know what I want in a relationship. It has very little to do with looks.
I have been seeing someone for a few months as a ‘friend’. He doesn’t come close to what I’m looking for in a relationship. He could never be that as I want to LIVE. I find most men my age to be Limited in their interests. And I’m not interested in kissing fucking frogs.
Boring has no place in my life anymore. I like myself way too much to waste my time with anyone who doesn’t bring anything to the table. Single is fine.
Mine is great with other peoples kids. OTHER peoples kids. His own, not so much and they notice it.
Ok, this was absolutely adorable and totally at least a bit on point for some. My gym buddy constantly bemoans the lack of men (and seriously continues to do so since she realized my husband “one of the good ones” was utterly vile) but her standards are incredibly high for looks, when we are both nice and soft in the middle… I am all for having a “must drive, must support self, must have decent exercise and diet and personal hygiene and hobbies” list, but expecting a 10 on the hot scale when I am a nice solid 7, 9 in spanx and a good push up bra- and additionally thinking that it MaTTERs when realistically my standards are now starting off with “doesn’t pay for sex” … Geesh. Friend zone is where you should start.
OMG THIS!!!!!
Realistically my standards are now starting off with “doesn’t pay for sex” AND I might add-
isn’t hooked on porn.
I really wouldn’t know where or how to meet someone new and I’m certainly not ready……I’m not quite finished with the divorce yet and I’m mourning the recent loss of my mom.
At this point, I’m sure that I have “no game” and I just don’t care.
I realize being in my 40’s with a small child might end up being a bit of a man repellant at this point but it’s ok.
My son is more important than anything and maybe someday I will happen onto a decent chap.
The sad thing is, I spent my young life chasing “the exiciting bad boy” that Accubonded mentioned however; my stbx was not the proverbial bad boy I would usually pick & I initially wasn’t attracted to his looks…………I thought I was doing the right thing by picking a good guy who I thought had a good heart because he was so kind at the start in the love bombing stage. Well, the joke was on me…….almost 18 years down the drain with a cheating, lying, porn & massage addicted a-hole.
There are many women in this “friend Zone” Just because I don’t sleep around, have morals, and don’t feel the need to wait on you hand and foot (been there done that). Don’t loop all women into that accubonded
I’m so tired of hearing about the “friend zone”. Neither men nor women owe anyone a romantic relationship just because ONE of them wants one. If your only interest in being around a particular woman is a romantic or sexual relationship and she has no interest that way? Then either be her friend, or drop her. If you stick around acting nice because you hope she will change her mind? I’m sorry, that’s on you, she thinks you are actually a friend, do her a favor and stop pretending. You put YOURSELF in the so called “friend zone” – stop blaming the other person for believing you actually like them as friends. Say your words and deal with the answer. If you don’t do that then you put yourself in the “nice guy” category and that’s no way to be.
Dat, I heart you and owing to my hetness and my respect for you, I would gladly inhabit your friend zone forevah!
Thank you Luz, wish you weren’t an ocean away from me, you are in my friend zone any time 🙂
Last I checked, Dat, there was no ocean between the East Coast and the midwest (Luz married Brit, not moved Brit) ; )
Accubonded – Know what you have to offer, and don’t be afraid to ask “Why not me?” if someone you are attracted to complains about not meeting nice guys.
I think there’s a good chance that guys who feel they’re firmly in the friend zone have not clearly expressed their desire for more. Not in general, but for the specific person they’re interested in.
Some of us women are still reluctant to make the first move. Some of us need the 2×4 to recognize that someone else sees us in a romantic light.
I’m a mixed bag. I have some qualities that are generally attractive, others that are a little off-putting, and maybe even a little scary at times. So someone is going to have to come right out and say they’re comfortable with the whole package.
I actually think I may have found that someone on a dating site, but we have a way to go before it gets really serious – due to circumstances, it will be a while before I meet him in person. That works for me.
accubonded, I see your point. But it sounds to me like you need to find another group of people if you are feeling that way. Don’t friend people like that and you won’t be hurt. Unchumping is about only being with people that value you and SEE you for you and bring value to you. You sound stuck on chump. You sound like you are friending women who chase narcs. Find a different crowd or be alone.
I kind of wince at the whole “friend zone” thing and then I look at where I am and who am I dating?
Mostly, people I have been friends with for quite some time. At this point they’ve only known me married and chose to be friends with me because we liked the same things and have a similar sense of humor. They completely understand that I don’t want to have a relationship right now (at least they say they do) which also helps.
As for meeting people if you feel you must, try getting out and doing an activity you enjoy. You will meet all sorts of new people and those new people may have single friends. Better yet, try something new just to see if you like it. That way you get introduced to everyone and you learn a new skill. Usually everyone feels compelled to help out the new person. I took my dad’s gun to the range because I was missing him. Even though I wasn’t in a place where I felt I could date a stranger I did get a lot of attention. Perhaps I will go back when I feel like I can really date.
I was married for forty years, (married at twenty two) tired of being treated like shit so I moved on. POF was for me the only way to go, but be prepared the psycho hazmat suit is standard kit. My first date was with a farmer lady, very attractive but I couldn’t get over the dirty finger nails, couldn’t see me going dow…, you get my drift. Then a very interesting lawyer, our first date she wanted to fuck in the back seat of her BMW. I could have done that but it was in the middle of the afternoon in a grocery store parking lot “maybe I couldn’t of done that). Then a very nice Jewish lady, whose second question on our first date, was “Do you wash your hands after you have used the bathroom?” Her first question being, “Are you circumcised? Legitimate questions I know, but when she offered to buy me a gold Rolex for a party she had organized on our third date I decided to move on. Then the Chinese lady who’s first question was “You got money?”
The point I’m trying to make here is I didn’t stop hunting for the “one” until I found the “One.”
“Are you circumcised?” is not a acceptable question on a first date or any date. That’s none of her damned business. I’m just glad these crazy people are out there to let those of us with a modicum of decency look like rare jewels.
Hey I want to validate that you are hurt, accubond, but I am also going to call you out on something.
“We been here just being fucking ignored or being the shoulder you cried on when said man didn’t change or dumped you or some other bullshit.”
SPEAK UP. Risk rejection. Ignoring takes two (my XH was a classic stonewaller so I know ignore really really well).
She doesn’t owe you a sexual or romantic relationship because you are friends and both single. She certainly is not obligated to read your mind that you wanted that sort of relationship. If you don’t want to risk the friendship asking for more, but you resent that you aren’t getting more, that’s just hard all around.
Accu, your post really struck me. And I, ashamedly and embarrassingly, was, 30 years ago, one of those women that was looking for the “hot” guy. And guess what? I got him! I thought I could change him after his affair during our engagement. I thought he loved me “enough.” At the 10 year marriage mark, I thought he loved me “enough” to end his affairs with 2 women he had been with 4 years out of the 10. And then the last 3 years of our 28 year marriage, I thought his current long-term affair would end because he “loved” me enough. Man was I stupid!
But that’s not the point. The point is that I have reconnected with a male friend from 40 years ago. He wasn’t the “cute” guy in high school or college. He wanted to date me, but I just wanted to be friends-much like you were describing. I was an idiot to focus on his looks rather than his inherent goodness. And I really learned the hard way that looks don’t mean much at all.
I now see him, after all this time and many heartbreaks for me, as a beautiful, gorgeous man who has my back through thick and thin, He is my best friend, confidant and lover. I had to be hit over the head repeatedly to look at the character of a person vs. the looks.
For me, it took a long time to learn that hard lesson. Stupid, stupid me.
The guys who complain of being friend-zoned have, in my experience, an off-putting affect. Simply put, they’re weird (which is fine, alone) but in a creepy, stalker-y way (not fine.) That’s WHY I put them in what they call the friend zone ( but really, it’s the acquaintance zone.) “I know you but you’re creeping me out with your unfounded zeal and I do NOT want to know anymore about you.” They like what miniscule amount they have topically seen/have learned about me, get worked up about it and think they know me, then act like I’ve led them on when I shut them out because their being over-familiar has weirded me out. That’s called self-preservation. If a guy is being weird (or heck, a new female acquaintance who’s forcing BFF-ness WAY too soon), I put up my wall. That means I don’t trust you to know me better than you already do. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person; it means I don’t want to know you anymore than I already do, if that. It means you should… respect that and maybe find yourself a new friend.
Friendzone? <—That's called Making Boundaries.
Blerg
Ian’s remarks to Accuboneded’s post were not constructive in my opinion. Telling a chump they areole a 5 year old and that he should tell his friend he wants to fuck her missed the entire meaning behind Accubonded’s original post. It WAS a personal attack. It was not constructive. Name calling, insults, and spinning are recognizable in the entitled. Telling a woman who is insecure about her appearance that she is fuckable and talking about pools of women to date? Ok enough said.
donna,
At the behest of Chump Lady, I stopped arguing yesterday. Y’all proceeded to attack unabated. But in the interest of clarity, I would like to add:
1. I get that you think I am entitled. (name calling)
2. Ophelie said, “feed my ego.” I tried to do that. This is your first comment relating to that topic.
3. I had no part in the “pool of women” discussion.
4. You donna, continued to spin and insult after the requested cease-fire.
I don’t have a Shepard or a gun. Yet.
I mean clearly it’s women’s own fault if they get chumped for getting involved with someone they actually love instead of going with the guy who pretends to be their friend in the hope of getting sex.
Did I miss something about accubond’s post… Cause that is not how I read it at all!!! Where in his post is he implying that he under the guise of ‘ friendship ‘ is trying to get laid. And exactly how is he being sexist??
His reply was to the letter writer aboutnot being able to find a good guy. My interpretation of Accu’s resposnse is: i am a good guy and I make myself available and demostrate honorable qualities but I am the back up plan…..because i am fine to hang out with but once the ‘ more interesting’ guy flexes his biceps… All of a sudden … We are ‘ friends.’ That would soooooo fucking piss me off. I totally get it. And as bitter person myself I applaude his post. Thanks for keeping it real…. And refreshing to hear a male perspective.
He never implied anywhere that sex was expected ..where is anyone reading that? Did I miss something or have a stroke?
Broke my leg jumping on TheClip & Donna bandwagon–not seeing sexism in Accubonded’s post at all (despite my willingness to eat chauvinists for breakfast). Furthermore, have iphones obliterated our memories (okay, answering that rhetorical question–yes)? Because Accubonded has been a valuable contributor here for months. Can we not give someone who is obviously hurting a weeeee bit of latitude based on his previous, often very pro-woman stance? Do we have to go all “Release the Kraken!” on him because he used the word “fucker”?
Please read @ christianpundit ‘s links to Jezebel and tumblr. There is a wealth of feminist literature on this “friend-zone” problem.
Read accubonded ‘s follow-up post too; he’s seething misogyny. I empathize with his cheater-problem. But he’s turned it into an all-women-are-bitches problem.
No. No leeway for that shit. What we have seen here is sexism and male-privilege. It’s not easily understood by those not up-to-date on the issue, and it’s an easy apologist sympathy-grab
I’m drawing fire from people because I’m over the target.
Love,
Ian
Ian–normally I love your posts but not on this thread.
Count me as one of the people “not up to date.” Hell, I just found out what beer pong was 3 years ago. And it’s not for lack of education, nor for lack of exposure to hip college students. I don’t read Salon and thus didn’t know “friend zone” is a sexist term because (a) I’m too busy raising a child single-handedly, thanks to my cheater, and (b) with my limited reading time, I would much rather find out about what they are doing in Flint, MI to alleviate the probably-permanent health problems that many children are suffering from public officials’ complete disregard that lead was leaching into the water supply for 18 months.
There is a psychological phenomenon where people behave more aggressively to others when they are anonymous (even putting on sunglasses gives us the perception of anonymity), and we treat others more poorly when they are de-individuated (as when people use code names on-line).
There are people on the receiving end of our comments, hurting people. Perhaps we can all keep that in mind.
My gun comment was injudicious. I only brought up the gun to show my “manliness.” Not for any type of threat. I am not Jeb Bush-ing y’all for the love of Cheetos.
Unless you’re a fast draw, I’ll match my killer Shepherd/Schnauzer against your gun any day.
Dammmit. I DID “Jeb” y’all. Ugh. Here’s hoping I don’t “Trump” myself too.
as long as you don’t go all Cheney on us.
Hahahahaha.
I was worried you might accuse me of going all “Rick Perry” on y’all’s asses. But then you reminded me that no one can eclipse Dark Lord Cheney.
only coyotes fear Rick Perry (or not—where is the carcass, Rick?)
There is an ugly undertone here that because I am childfree, or x, y, z, I should shut my mouth.
Right now this Texan is wearing a flannel shirt, cleaning my gun, and drinking beer.
Are we cool?
That is not the undertone at all that I intended. Claiming “sexism” about Accubonded’s post seems, in part, to hinge on the fact that the people at Salon have deemed “the friend zone” to be sexist. While that itself is up for debate, some of us who are too busy or not-hip-enough have not caught up with the latest cultural positions, and it seems harsh to accuse someone of sexism for using “friend zone” when he/she didn’t know it is now considered sexist.
Off now to read Urban Dictionary so I don’t make any social missteps….
Edited-to spell obviously correctly and add the word he. Typing on my phone…
Donna, TheClip, and Tempest,
Obvioulsy, you are free to disagree with mine and Ian’s interpretation of what Accubonded wrote, just as we are free to disagree with yours. This board is generally supportive, and we are all here because we have been hurt/are hurting. I think we regularly try to cut each other slack when it comes to the pretty black and white issue of cheating/disordered assholes. However, this topic had nothing to do with cheating, and was simply about finding good partners. That level of vitriol seems unfounded in light of the topic being discussed. Just because Accubonded has a history of being supportive of women on this board doesn’t preclude him from being sexist or writing something that could be interpreted as sexist when it comes to the topic at hand.
Donna-for the record, I am not sure what you meant by my word order being off, but it certainly didn’t change the meaning I was trying to convey. I am glad that you feel you are good at spotting entitlement, but that doesn’t mean you are more qualified than anyone else here at spotting it.
TheClip-Accubonded didn’t have to say “all” women. His rant wasn’t directed at ALL women. It was just directed at the”single ones” that aren’t attracted to the kind of men he deems that they should find attractive. Singling out one group of women doesn’t make his argument any less misogynistic. My argument is misogyny, just as Ian’s was. If you would look at my previous posts, as Tempest suggested that we do in judging Accubonded’s post, you would see that I have no problem with curse words. However, I don’t think the women that Ian was referring to deserve to be called “fuckers”. If one accepted your argument that he was only talking about women he knows, then that would probably be even worse, given that he said their biggest crime as described would be failing to reciprocate his romantic feelings that did not even communicate to them.
Tempest-As with Donna, I am glad you that you are willing to eat chauvinists for breakfast, but that does not mean that your definition of chauvinism is going to be the same as mine or Ian’s.
I wasn’t trying to attack Accubonded. However, I was put off by his post, and I thought it was only right to defend Ian, as I completely agreed with the sentiment of Ian’s post.
You didnt have anything to say about CL intrepretation of ‘ good men’ cause apparently they wear fannel , drink brewskies and live in Michigan. Now some men might find that sexist…. Cause they would not be caught dead in fannel or drinking a brewskie…. And fucking Michigan???? Stereotypical or sexism?
That was a more sexist remark then what Accu said. You are obviously sensitive about woens issues but it wasnt a sexist attack. And if you are going call Accu out … Then call us all out… Cause I got man issues. So bring it
I like men… And men in fannel shirts drinking brewskies are up my alley… Just for the record. Just making a point about sexism….and pointing fingers at one comment vs another. Hopefully the fickle finger is attached to a funny bone!
Can everyone please stop bickering? You know how much I hate to moderate! I was attempting humor with brewskis — but HEY, I’m from Michigan. And all men wear flannel. It’s in the code.
If Accu has some shitty feelings about the women they are his. Did he say ‘ all’ women? Nope. No he talked about they woman he had negative experiences. Period. You and your buddy tried to sway peoples opinion of Accu’s post by comparing it to an article. You regurgitated language from that article like a gospel. Again just cause its down in black and white doesnt mean its a truth. Doesnt mean its every persons experience. YOU chose to make it Accu experience. And YOU chose to spin doctor his comment to suggest he is sexist and ??? A rapist. I am surprised you didnt use the statement ‘ No means NO’ just to seal your point.
Intrpret how you want…. But dont intrepret for me. You have your own agenda and its very obvious.
“Those not up to date on the issue”
I’ve been a woman all my life.
Enlighten me oh great one.
TheClip
No you didn’t have a stroke! I agree with your interpretation regarding his honorable qualities. I have no idea how his post was taken so out of context. He wasn’t “pretending to be a friend” or using “the guise of friendship to get laid.”
Seriously, Ian your have a right to your opinions but your offended by his HONESTY, sexism, and male privilege? Well I’m offended by your spin on his heartfelt post.
Donna and TheClip,
I read Accubond’s post exactly as Ian did, so I feel like I have to defend Ian here. First off, calling people “fuckers” that don’t reciprocate your feelings of attraction is complete bullshit. Accubond’s post makes it sound like he expects that by being a kind and good friend to a woman, said woman should be expected to develop romantic feelings for him in return, simply because he listened to her or did things any other friend would do. Sorry, but that is the exact type of entitled attitude that we call cheaters out for on this board all the time.
All of us here know that you cannot control feelings. You have to let them play out. Many of us here have been burned by following our feelings/hearts and not our heads, by staying with cheaters for too long. It seems hypocritical to show such disdain of others (single people looking for partners) who have followed their hearts over their heads as well, albeit for different reasons/under different circumstances.
HE is NOT a cheater. I’m all in on bashing cheaters. Not chumps. That is unacceptable or so I thought.
+2 (because I agree that much)
I call people ‘ fuckers’ alllllll the time. Think I have even called them Closet Dead Dog Fuckers. Had my own rant about men cheat. Men. Cause I am a woman. Is your arguement language? Or sexism or violence?
Cause they way I read yours and Ian’ s post… You both tried to spin doctor Accu’s post into something it wasnt.
And have you guys met Arnold? Where the fuck is Arnold when u need him?
Right?! Where IS Arnold when you need him? Did he get pissed and quit, or did he graduate?
Arnold left because he was upset that women could say extreme things about men, but men couldn’t say extreme things about women.
Looks like he was right.
Arnold, if you are out there PLEASE come back here. I miss your insight. Your chump story was one of the toughest stories EVER. I valued your posts and wisdom. 🙁 Prayers for you and your sons, I hope your long road is a little less bumpy as the sane parent.
Tempest,
I believe we have much more in common than we don’t, and I’m pained by your continued criticism. I got your joke about my “I got this” response, and appreciated the humor.
Tempest you just now said, “Arnold left because he was upset that women could say extreme things about men, but men couldn’t say extreme things about women. Looks like he was right.”
1. The only person who seems unaccounted for is accubonded. I appreciate that he’s a fellow chump, and I look forward to his further participation.
2. I am not responsible for any alleged departure of Arnold
3. This is a case of a MAN saying an extreme things about a MAN, and it’s my opinion on a topic only tangentially related to cheating.
Ian, my point is that Accubonded got jumped on for saying some of the things that a woman on this site could say about men with impunity (I obviously know Accubonded is a man, and I recognize your manliness because you have a gun & flannel shirt & drink beer ; )–man on man debates were not what I meant.
For the love of Shiner Bock, can we move on???????
Man-on-man. Hot.
Without a doubt I recognize entitlement when I see it! It’s not Accubonded who is entitled here.
And your word order is off, changing the intended meaning.
Wow accubonded, you sound like SUCH a nice guy. Not entitled or bitter at all.
No Kettle, I would not be offended if a guy told me he “liked” me. I would be offended if a guy told me “he wants to fuck me” as Ian suggested to Accubonded. That remark sounds like something the Limited would say to a bar whore. And telling a friend you want to FUCK her lacks integrity Ian, although it highlights your actions. I see.
Exactly, Donna what I was thinking….accubonded’s words did not offend me, and he’s right— I am post-divorce 5 months now, post D-Day/him moving out 9 months now….I have tried and (have failed, REPEATEDLY to meet a “good man” online, IRL, and through friends. I don’t think I’m trying too hard, but I’m out there practically waving my arms with fireworks shooting out of my hands screaming, “Hello!!!! I’m right here!!!!”
I want someone special in my life- I don’t “need” a man though…I am a full-time mom to my Autistic daughter – I get every other weekend “off” even if it is me staying in my pajamas all weekend eating cereal and watching Spongebob…I don’t want to be up their backside, and I don’t want someone up mine, but having a good, steady, special someone to hang with here or there (if he’s open to my daughter— that’s a no-brainer, non-negotiable)
I feel like that line in that movie, “As Good As It Gets” with Jack Nicholson & Helen Hunt where she screams, “Whyyyy?! Why can’t I just have a normal boyfriend that won’t go nuts on me!?!?” to which her mom replies, “We all want that dear, it doesn’t exist!!!”
I am about to be 45, 5’9″, just over 200 lbs (maybe being “curvy” is a turn-off, maybe-probably, but fuck them if they are going to reject me based on that) — loyal, faithful, have a great sense of humor, witty charming, blah blah blah…yet, I still go home alone every time I go out, and no hits on my online dating profiles unless I just want to hook up for a few hours…
Back to my original thoughts:
accubonded is speaking my language, and I feel his pain — unless I’m willing to play Super-Save-A-Dude or “Freaky-Frida” for a few hours, sure, I can find a guy easy. I just don’t want that, EVER.
Just putting out my random thoughts…
Molly X
XO Molly, priorities rock!
It’s intelligent to be angry, even “bitter” when you just had your life and heart upended by a deceptive jerk. No shame in bitter, here.
Bitter? Yes! Sexist? No!
Rush Limbaugh would definitely characterize me as a Femi-nazi, but I’m not seeing the sexism in Accubonded’s remarks.
I am a feminist. My wife cheated on me. I got this.
‘Cuz what every feminist woman wants to hear is a man say, “I’ll take care of this for you.”
(Teasing you here, Ian–I was not offended!)
Oh Kettle, I guess you don’t know about the bitter badge of honor here. Stick around, you might learn something…
Speaking for myself, anyone who uses the term “friend zone” is automatically off my list, accubonded. Your female friends aren’t machines you put friendship coins into until sex falls out, and they probably sense that’s how you see them. People who know who they are, who know their worth, and who know how to be real friends without totaling up a future bill for every nice thing they do, they are attractive.
Accubonded’s actual words were “We are in the fucking “friend zone” where you left us, …. And I know the reverse is true as well.”
He said nothing about putting women in the friend zone, and acknowledged that men are shallow and “friend zone” worthy-of-relationship women.
The rest of this is not addressed to you, Linden, but to the rest of the criticisms of Accubonded, which I think have no basis in what he actually said, and which are often unfair:
1-He put friend zone in quotes because it is a meme, and is now in public parlance. If the people at Salon got tired of reading their Derrida and decided to make “friend zone” a sexist term so that it could be better discussed at cocktail parties, well, some of us are not quite cosmopolitan enough to keep up with the latest Salon trends (possibly because of …raising children? Which, BTW, Accubonded is raising several daughters).
2–I have read and re-read and re-read his post. Not seeing any sexism, any more than I saw a visage of Jesus in my toast this morning.
3-Accubonded has been posting for months, and posts often helpful comments both on the main page and in the forums. Is he still angry? Yup, he’s still wet behind the ears on this infidelity stuff. I’m still angry and I’m 1.25 years out. Could he have phrased his rant more diplomatically? Sure, but can we not cut other victims some slack?
Amen, Tempest!!!!
+1
Amen! You aren’t owed sex.
No one is owed romance or anything else. But you can be sure there are all sorts of entitled, self-absorbed people who think they are owed whatever they think is missing.
I didn’t really read the rant as being owed sex. But I did see the frustration of never being able to move in a romantic or sexual direction because someone, for whatever reason, has ruled them out.
Still doesn’t mean they are owed anything. But one can’t deny his frustration either. No one is owed “protection” from hearing his rant.
Uni-baller,
You picked the wrong horse to back buddy. Sure, Accubonded is hurting. But he sounds like a five-year-old.
(Can’t believe I’m going to say this.) Man-up ‘bonded. If you want to fuck, tell a lady. Even now in the age of feminism, (a good – GREAT – thing) gender-roles persist. Most straight women want to be pursued. That’s on you mang. Ask for what you want. If you don’t get it don’t be a creepy crybaby.
I don’t think you understood my reply. I wasn’t siding with anyone. I understood where he was coming from.
I clearly said no one is owed anything. You certainly don’t owe me any understanding where it comes to understanding what I wrote. But if you want to have a conversation or discussion, then at least make an effort to understand, in every meaning of that word, what the writer is saying.
Instead of just blindly applying labels such as sexist, or being insulting by saying (man up, Ironic since you are then name calling sexist…) maybe the world would be a better place if we walked a mile in someone’s shoes.
But again, you don’t owe that to anyone.
Understand?
Uniballer1965,
I did not blindly apply any labels. It was a considered and relevant rebuke.
Man-on-man sexism is as complex a topic as “reverse-racism.”
Perhaps we should take all this to the Forum. But really, no one is going to change her or his mind, so perhaps let’s all move on.
/threadjack end/
I thought Accubonded was being respectful. It’s an awkward place to be in when when you are a kind person and overlooked by someone you have developed a friendship with and are overlooked while you ARE right there in front of them. Relationships should start as friendships. Cry baby? If you want to fuck tell a lady? That’s bullshit Ian. That would be such a turn off.
donna,
I re-read the statement in question by accubonded: “We been here just being fucking ignored or being the shoulder you cried on when said man didn’t change or dumped you or some other bullshit.”
I stand by my derision of accubonded’s remarks. His honesty, integrity, sexism, and male-privilege offend me.
Duly noted, Donna
It would be a turn-off for a man to tell you he likes you? To ask you on a date? Really?
You know how CL is always saying you can’t control other people, you can only control you? Yeah, that applies here. No amount of being “nice” is going to activate a woman’s latent psychic powers and make her ask you on a date. If you like-like someone and want to be more than friends, either open up your mouth and say so, or else resolve yourself to the fact that you and your crush will never be a couple. Don’t hang around them in the hope that one day, *one day*, she’ll “see what’s been under her nose all along”.
And telling a chump they sound like a five year old? WTF? Where are your fucking boundaries?
Acccubonded! Your comment made me laugh out loud!!! Especially the first sentence! Brilliant!!! Thanks for making my day. So much truth to what you said!
My ex was one of those nerdy dorks that most women friend-zoned. I thought that he was my best friend; I certainly didn’t go after him because he seemed dangerously exciting and looked like a model. Perhaps I thought I was making the safe choice that way, but I couldn’t have been more wrong. There are plenty of us out there, both male and female, who prefer an unconventional choice of partner and aren’t swayed by a stereotypically “pretty” face. Most “hot” guys I’ve met are seriously lacking in personality and intelligence (sorry– another stereotype, but I’m basing this on my past experiences), two qualities that are very attractive to me. I just need to make sure that, if there is a next time for me, I pick a guy who has personality, intelligence, and a strong sense of fidelity!
My cheater was/is the same. He always in bad relationships that were not reciprocal and was cheated on. But was so happy to finally be in a “loving reciprocal” relationship with me. Taught me how to play D&D and other RPG’s with his college friends. Was smart and we could talk for hours about everything. By the time we got married I thought I had met my soul mate, my best friend. I never thought that he would cheat. But I didn’t know about the porn or his fat bitch whore in Austin or the escorts. Nope didn’t have a clue till D-day. Sometimes the ones we think are “safe” are not. That makes trying to start again so tough. If we made such a bad choice the first time with someone that seemed so perfect how do we trust ourselves to pick better the next time?
Fix our pickers i wish i knew how. I never did anything for myself only others. Its all about me now and at 60 im just getting started. I will allow noone to ever get that close to me again. I will remain forever single. The ex will just keep on destroying his relationships till he dies and does nothing to change his ways and hes aware he needs serious mental health counseling. This experience has made me a better person and the best revenge is living well. The whore hes with now will do til the next one…..
Strangely enough, my ex was not attractive either. People close to me even had the Arrested Development response (him?!) or “He must be different/better/etc. when they are alone”. I always had dated men who were attractive in the past…none of them cheated on me. There was actually one point where I saw an ex-boyfriend when I was out with cheater ex, and I was embarrassed. EMBARRASSED! Was this my subconscious trying to tell me something? I don’t think that you are supposed to feel that way. In fact, I didn’t think that he would ever cheat on me because he wouldn’t be able to find anyone who would want to…boy was I wrong. I guess what got me with cheater ex was SPARKLES and a shit-ton of love bombing. My new number one thing to look for in a potential new partner is KINDNESS.
I totally found that kind of comments and attitude from men so unattractive. I married a comic book nerd. A fat, bald comic book nerd and he was the worst cheater ever!!!!!! EVER!
I agree with you to a point, @accubonded, in that we need to acknowledge the good things and opportunities right under our noses, and not write things off for some Seinfeldian reason. But at the same time, if you’re just plain not attracted to someone, you can’t force yourself to feel that way. And if someone’s not attracted to me, even if I really like them, I don’t want them to lie to me and fake attraction just because we look good on paper together. “Forcing it” like this is exactly what gets us into messes that bring us to this web site. And I’m not even going to go into the dismissive “friend zone” thing because others have written about that way more eloquently, for example, here: http://www.salon.com/2013/10/12/6_reasons_the_friend_zone_needs_to_die/
With love and respect,
chump-tastic
Accubonded–You wield the 2 x 4 with humor & insight!
My cheater was a friend first. He seemed friendly and cute and kind of supportive and protective when a previous relationship (with a cheater) went south. We were buds. We hung out together, travelled together, listened to each others issues. I heard all about his ex, the cheater who was “not quite human”. Now he’s bonking her.
You win some you lose some. The sweet, cute and cuddly boy who loved his mama turned out to be a raging narc who controls everyone around him by withholding affection and throwing rages. Sweet cute and cuddly is how he sucks people in.
@ accubonded
A link: Dudes, Stop Putting Women in the Girlfriendzone
Finally Awake, Ditto here for Mr. Nice Guy. Ughhhh
Moving on, your X sounds familiar, started out as friends, heard all his sob stories, just a good guy with a long line of girls who only wanted to be friends, good guy finishes last stories. A supportive, positive friend, thoughtful, cuddly, golly gosh. X couldn’t have been more perfect. Turned out to be the most selfish, wicked, narc, opinionated,critical, asshole I could have ever had a relationship with. Spawn of Satan.
Guys who I thought were jerks when I began dating X, have long term marriages, faithful and adore their wives and families.
I’m not out of my current mess yet but I don’t even know who I am right now anyway. We become so enmeshed with out SO’s, even more so when they are disordered and we are constantly checking in and reacting to their moods that knowing and being “yourself” is loaded. I know that much of who I am and where I am right now in terms of location and lifestyle has been guided by my relationship with him and I need to re-work out who exactly I am before I can even think about how to find someone to complement that and who that should be.
I feel like Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride – I don’t even know how I like my eggs yet (OK I do but there are lots of other things I’m not sure about).
My ex was a 300 lb nerd and I adored him. Too bad his friend zone included impregnating his coworker.
Oh geez. You mean I’m not the only one who married a safe nerd that neeeeeeeedz a close female friend?
Glad to hear I’m not the only one who married a nerd feels compelled to amass a harem. I’m trying for a unicorn here, and things have been going well for the past year, but the point remains: I get a little sick inside whenever I hear talk of “the friend zone” etc. If you’re not getting what you need from a friendship/relationship, move on. Nobody gets bonus points for marrying the nerd. Some of us (myself included) connect well with nerds, that’s why we end up marrying them. Some people connect well with athletic outdoorsy types. Good on them! All of these groups have individuals who will destroy your life if you allow it. Nerds tend to have more covert narcs than overt, but a narc is still a narc.
I don’t think you’re supposed to impregnate people in your “friend zone.”
“WHYYYY can’t I have a close friend????”
If they’re not super sparkly (mine is cute but short and had no money), they play the good guy teddy bear role. Whatever works. Plus that role plays well with the damaged and those that have had bad experiences in the past. Not a fixer-upper but someone that you can feel virtuous about dating because you see and accept what the sparkly seekers don’t see.
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Love your comment accu and you are right! I’m gonna remain single but I would love to meet nice guys for dating and just plain friends. My daughter let the only nice guy she ever dated get away and all her relationships have been bad boys and awful. I always appreciated nice guys I married one but he let the demons out after thirty years. He’s still nice but he hides the horns. Good luck to all of us. Rock on accu!
Accubonded your reply reminds me a bit of the very famous Toby Keith song “Who’s your daddy?” Tracy, your post reminds me of words from heaven. It’s so true. Happiness is not attached to a member of the opposite sex. Right now, I consider myself to be “dating women” but not in a sexual manner, you pervert! (Not that there’s anything wrong with that, it’s just not my orientation.). I am enjoying getting to know PEOPLE. And looking for travel buddies so I can spend the awesome settlement I got! Accubonded, you will be found and that lady will be damn lucky!
Someone who recently entered the dating pool, I have/had the same questions. First, there are reasonable ground rules to go by.
Are you really ready? Are you positive and happy with the momentum in your life? Do you know with certainty what characters are essential for a partner? What are deal breakers? Are you willing to stick like glue to those boundaries?
Online is great – for data collection. Read as many profiles as you can, get comfortable with introductions. Every dude considers himself “laid back, likes outdoor (free) things and “the big game. Wants “no drama” and “fun”. Once you have an understanding of male post 50 courting lingo, you may proceed to communication with a few, if you are brave — but we know all chumps here are…
The search is harder after 50, but there are many men out there, that I can tell who are just as perplexed as you are…
I used eHarmony successfully…found Ms. Fiestypants. However, we all have our own ways of meeting people and connecting. I wanted to use a service that helped me learn about myself and matched me with folks who fit well with my values/personality. Did the whole find someone on my own thing once, and it did not turn out so well for me 😉 However, I am in my 30s, too.
And I totally agree with CL, finding a partner ought not to be the Holy Grail of Happiness. That is to make our well-being contingent on external circumstances not under our control, which is a recipe for misery. Best to discover peace and contentment with ourselves first. That way we are less likely to settle as well.
@ Divorce Minister.
I tried dating sties at the urging of friends. I tried eHarmony,
it was a rip off. I have read that the males on the site get more matches than the women, that eHarmony sets it up that way on purpose.
I am a woman. I was a paid member on eH for about three months. Once I stopped sending them money, I stopped getting matches, and even though I changed my settings to include anyone in the entire USA (which you would assume would mean I would get more matches but that was not so).
When I was a paying member, eHarmony only sent like maybe 3 or 4 matches in total. I cannot recommend eHarmony to anyone, especially not single women. The site seems geared to cater to men, not to women. I get more interest on other dating sites, lots more matches.
Oh, also. The Christian men on there are all about sex. I don’t think Christian men on there understand that mentioning sex up front on their “must have” list or profiles, or their vulgar sex jokes on their profiles are total turn-offs to many women. I know it turned me off. Guys who think it’s okay to mention “I really dig sex” on the “must have” list or who joke about sex on their profile page sound like perverts to me, so I instantly clicked “Not interested in this clown” on the site.
I’m getting married Saturday! EEEKK. But let me tell you it was a long, hard road to get to this point. I’ve been divorced over 7 years now. I didn’t even try and date for well over a year and then I’d have friends invite me to dinner and I’d arrive to find my girl friend had brought a date for her and a date for me. He’d say how pretty I was and ask me to go play pool after dinner and then she’d drop the fact that I had three kids and then he went to the bathroom and came back after a long time to say, “UMMM<> UMM, I totally forgot. I have a girlfriend. Yeah. and her name is… her name is.. Sarah! Yeah, her name is Sarah. oh and I have to work tomorrow so I can’t do pool. BYE,” I had a lot of idiot coworkers just randomly come up to me and say, “You sure are pretty. It’s too bad you have so many kids or I’d ask you out.” I was constantly being rejected by men I didn’t even ask out. I had one guy hand me his phone number and then he saw me perusing the Toys R Us ad and he asked me why I was looking at it and I told him I had children and he took his phone number back. I met one guy at a party where my children were present. My then two year old really took to him and a friend from high school vouched for him. She said he was her boss at the Community College in the IT department so I let him pick me up for a date on St Patricks Day. He then proceeded to reveal to me that he impregnated the 17 year old clerk at the College book store and had to pay astronomical amounts of child support and that his car was repo’d and that he lived with his mother and that he was Bipolar and the meds he took for it gave him erectile dysfunction. He kept trying to slide in next to me at the booth and kiss me. I took out my wallet when the waitress came and he said, “OH< you've got this?! Waitress, she's got this!" and I ended up having to pay for the entire nightmare evening. . I have more nightmare examples of the dating scene, trust me. One day I had to go on a ride along at work. I'm in the Electric Dept and I had to ride with a guy in the water department. At the end of the day, he asked for my phone number and said he wanted to take me on a date. I immediately gave me my spiel. I have three kids. three little kids. All girls under the age of 5! That's usually when they would say, "Nevermind." Except he looked at me funny and said, "i'm divorced too. Two years now. My ex wife ran off with my best friend. I have two daughters. I want to take you out." Well, now we have a daughter of our own. Six girls between the two of us! It's still not been easy. Sometimes I have thought he's been playing ,me for a chump because I'm suspicious and have major trust issues now and put this marriage off for a while cause I want to be very, very sure. His ex wife is a horrible narcissist who didn't want him but she dang sure doesn't want him happy with me . The advice that always stuck for me from Chumplady was find another Chump!
Best wishes to you both for a very happy life together with your girls!
OMG NoWire what a wonderful story!!!!!!
Thanks for keeping hope alive for the rest of us.
And have an awesome wedding and life with your new mate.
Congratulations! NoWire!
Congrats! Happy for you!
Wow, NoWire! What a ride you’ve had!
Happy Wedding Day to you & your beloved!
Forge on!
Good luck and congratulations.
Well said, as always 🙂 I’m not even remotely interested in dating yet and I question if I will ever want to after the shit I just experienced? I have 2 close friends who got very lucky with a dating site and are happily married to wonderful men.
Right now I’m just content being me, loving my kids and working on myself. I stayed TOO long with my disordered X-hole because I just did not want to do this alone again, I wasted precious years and happiness. My goal is to plan on going it alone and prepare for that.
For me, it truly is finally Tuesday and I found MEH. Hallelujah!
I am also perfectly content with my single status. Hell, I enjoy being alone. For virtually all of my adult life, I put myself last. From what to make for dinner to where we were going to vacation, I deferred to the wants of other people. At first, it was very difficult to even acknowledge that I had my own wants and needs. Now that I am enjoying my single status, I do not want to give up my new found independence. I still enjoy “drinking out of the milk carton.” My youngest leaves for college next year and that may change everything. For now, though, I recognize that I am not good partner material and I think it would be unfair of me to pretend otherwise.
Me too, Violet. I’m pretty content these days. My sons are doing their things as teens and twenty-something, and I’m happy just serving as their lighthouse beacon.
While they’re out, I’m pretty content to read, or write, or binge watch TV at night with my dog. He’s almost everything I’ve ever wanted in a partner; loyal, playful, funny, athletic, a good listener, attentive and likes to cuddle. If he could figure out how to use a toilet, I’d be golden.
The only thing I long for is lovemaking (versus sex). Married to a selfish narc meant really boring, really bad sex. It’s been over 30 years since I last enjoyed thoughtful, passionate, all-consuming lovemaking. No toy in the world can fill in for that.
Sigh…
“The only thing I long for is lovemaking (versus sex). Married to a selfish narc meant really boring, really bad sex.” Me too CandL only in my case, the 30 plus years of bad sex is all I’ve ever had as he is the only “man” (I use the term advisedly) I’ve ever had sex with. I’m absolutely terrified of dying without ever once experiencing love making with a real man who is actually present in the moment with ME. No toy is going to cut it nor is a hook-up. And then there’s my major trust issues, introverted personality and obvious geekiness (you know what’s more nerdy and offputting to the average guy than a librarian? A Law Librarian. I join you in your “sigh…”
I hear you Chutes and Beth, my only regret is not having that reciprocal relationship (some toe curling sex wouldn’t go astray either), I still hope I do get to experience it one day. I did dip my toe and had a few coffee dates, got dropped by text so can add that to my bucket list lol! And despite all the joking around with my friends discovered I’m not a hookup kinda gal – through this pain I have gained deeper authentic relationships with my true friends, am modelling kickass grownup behaviours to my kids and am generally a happier person than I was being stuck with Dorian. Cue Whitney Houston….greatest love of all
I am one of those successful, college-educated, relatively normal, single early 40’s chump sons without children. Daddy was a filthy cheater, liar and your typical standard coward. Most of us go to work and hide in our man-caves. We do play golf. Sometimes I’ll troll the dating sites for an golf partner or a hiking/kyacking partner for the day. Most of us, me included, are not really interested in a long-term relationship. Rather, we would prefer to have a pool of single women with can choose from that we can develop friendships/relationships with without any commitment.
@ El Diabo said,
“Rather, we would prefer to have a pool of single women with can choose from that we can develop friendships/relationships with without any commitment.”
I sincerely hope you make that very clear up front to any women you approach IRL or on dating sites.
I for one want a steady, committed relationship that leads to marriage. I would be hopping angry if the guy I was dating strung me along for months, only wanting a booty call or a golf pal.
Agreed, and I hope ElDiablo uses that term “pool of women” so that anyone responding to his on-line dating posts knows exactly how he sees women.
Tempest, the data from being back in the online dating scene is:
1. They don’t.
2. He probably doesn’t.
People should be honest, but they don’t catch too many fish with that on their profile. Not enough to stock his private pond anyway.
I hear you. Fear of intimacy, and fear of yourself, is a very isolating thing. It’s hard to commit – it takes courage, requires a loss of total control, and a great deal of trust in the other person. It’s not for cowards. I tell my younger single friends this: ‘Marriage is not an escape – it’s the single bravest step you will ever take in your life.’
accubonded:
Gently, I hear what you are saying.
Sometimes, though I find older men, instead of being more honest and realistic, are more delusional in their pairings. Commonly looking for women better looking then them, 20, 15 10 years younger – (Way above their “pay grade”) so to speak. Humorously, I also find the 50 year old seeking out the 20 something mother of three wants “no drama”, either.. — future chumps.
If men would look for educated ladies their own age, put more attention to character than pants size, they would be happier…
@ Yup said, “If men would look for educated ladies their own age, put more attention to character than pants size, they would be happier…”
I agree. Men frequently ask out women who are way out of their league in the looks, personality, or brains department, then get bent out of shape when they are not interested.
I also see too many men, ages 35 and older, who are all chasing the single women who are UNDER age 35.
I finally changed the age on my dating profile to late 20s or early 30s, though I am older.
I saw an interview with a woman who was 50 years old who said on her profile on a dating site that she was 39 or 40. She met a guy through the site that way, and told him on the first date her real age – and he was okay with it. She said most men will filter out any woman over 35 or so, and the guy understood why she did what she did.
I’m not dating yet, but when I do, I am probably keeping my age at a younger range. Then, when we meet in person (should any guy want to meet me), if they don’t like me, they don’t have to go on a 2nd date, so my age won’t be an issue. My photos of myself are current on my dating profile.
I’ve had guys on these sites say they are 40 or 45 on their profile, but in their photos, they have snow white hair, lots of wrinkles, and are obviously over the age of 65.
But anyway, I see a lot of men who put age caps in place on dating sites, even if they are 50 or older, for women who are like 20 to 29 years old. Well, okay then, bingo presto, I have changed my age to 23 or 34, or whatever it takes to show up on their lists. But then, I don’t know if I really want to date a guy who is THAT age obsessed in the first place.
I do think men should date women who are within five years of their age, whether five years older or younger, but they all want to chase after women who are 15 or more years younger – it’s unrealistic. Not many women are going to want to date a guy who is 10, 15 more years older.
Pascale: Decent, single men are out here. But many of us are also healing from being chumped ourselves and keeping a low profile. One tends to be leery about dipping one’s foot back in the pond when the Sirens are still polluting the waters. I know that my own Gorgon ex-wife is currently sleeping with the neighbourhood, so that ought to keep a few undesirables occupied, at least temporarily. But seriously, now that you (and the rest of us chumps) have developed better bs detectors, you at least know what you DON’T want and see the red flags for what they are. I’m inclined to think that ridding yourself of a cheater must be like kicking a nasty drug addiction – you know it will ruin your life, but there are parts of the drug that you desperately crave. But those parts – the love, the trust, the closeness…were all smoke and mirrors. Better to be single and sane than having to deal with a batshit crazy cheater.
To heck with the dating zone; I entered the People Zone. I wanted to meet interesting, compassionate, fun people with integrity, whatever their sex. And I have, and I am happy. It also gave me the liberty to start distancing myself from people with less integrity.
I plan to attend a Nerd night here in my town, and possibly a hiking club, not to find dates, to find friends. Should romance arise from these activities in the future, great; if not, I’ll be intellectually stimulated and fit…and happy.
And oh yeah, the Yosemite chump meet this summer (get thee to the Private: General forums if you’re interested).
Exactly Tempest and everyone else who replied. I feel like I have been isolated for so long from the shame I felt from EX’s affair that I forgot how to act natural and just talk with people.I have one really excellent friend but I think I need more friends than that to survive. Forget dating, But I have major trust issues now.
I’m 100% putting my energy right now in making friends and just learning to be happy all by myself, this is what I can control. Just enjoying life and chilling.
You are on the right track! Don’t be in a rush. You are young and beautiful and intelligent. Explore your options and do not settle!!!!
This is where I’m at. I was isolated by XH. He was very, very needy, and extremely anti-social. I had a wide range of friends from grad school and from church. XH claimed he liked to play board games. Except he didn’t. He said he liked going to church, and was even the same denomination as I am. He didn’t go except for Christmas and Easter (and yeah, he likes to make a big deal about God and virtue). He says he likes theater and music. We live in a major university town with loads of music and theater–both of which he said he didn’t want to attend.
Fast forward a few years, and I had no friends other than online.
I’m trying to change that now by going out more. I do activities with my dogs, but that gets me in contact with other dog people. I also plan to attend music and theater events.
Maybe I’ll find a nice, single man, but I’ll meet him during shared experiences, values, and friendship.
If I don’t meet him, that’s okay, too.
Same here, got very isolated with ex. I’m introverted anyhow and just finding it enough to try and get the fuck out of the house and meet people with whom I can become friends. If I meet a romantic partner that would be awesome. Meanwhile I do wish I were not so timid about just getting laid, no sex for so many years is really tough.
I hear that, Datdamwuf. Going on 2 years for me and I miss it. I’m an attractive 63, but starting to feel it’s all behind me…
I am with Tempest for all the reasons she mentioned above. My life with Dr. Demento was so isolating that I just plain need good friends of whatever sex, interesting, decent, honest, with integrity. Should romance happen well that is a bonus. But I am also doing this for another reason. If I had had good strong boundaries and people sense, I would have tossed Dr. Demento sooner but I didn’t. Expanding my friend circle allows me to practice these skills. And for the record, I seem to be aces at attacting Cluster B’s. I have one trailing me right now… ha! ha! I see you coming. And I recognized the reptilian gaze in another married man the other day. There are lots of skills I need to get really good at.
?
Dating has not even crossed my mind yet and I’ve been divorced a whole two years. I realized at some point in my journey that I made some very foolish choices in my youth and beyond based solely on my fear of being alone.
I need to truly love myself and value my worth before I consider letting anyone into my life romantically. I also need to be done healing from the disaster that was my former marriage. I need to be selfish and focus on me and I can’t reckon how to be in a relationship while I’m being selfish. Doesn’t seem fair.
How ever long that takes it takes. Right now I’m just trying to enjoy my life as it is right now and I’ve made progress. For the first time in my life I am okay with being alone.
Well said. I haven’t really done anything about dating; I’ve been enjoying a pretty full life, and I have no idea how I’d fit the rigors of online dating into it. It seems like a lot of work that I’m not particularly interested in doing. I guess I sort of shrug now and think, “If it’s meant to be, it will happen.” I’m open to meeting someone, but I’m not interested in putting a great deal of effort into it. Perhaps that means that I will end up single for the rest of my days, but I don’t think that’s such a bad thing. My life is much quieter and less complicated now, and I really do enjoy that. I think it makes me a better parent, relative, friend, and colleague.
I wish I had felt this way about life several decades ago; I think I would have chosen a better partner for myself, but like you said Cheaterssuck, I was so desperate to find someone. I thought that being alone was a fate worse than death. What a shame that we don’t encourage young people to stay single if they’re happier that way. We pressure them into marriage and having children because that is what’s done in our society. I will never do that to my kids; if they all stay single and are happy, that will be fine with me.
Unlike my own mother, the words when are you going to give me grandchildren have never and never will pass my lips. They can have children if they want to not because of me. I would love that but their choice not mine.
The whole thought of dating or bumping uglies with someone gets me nauseated. I dont have then energy nor the desire to be ‘ in ‘ a relationship. not saying I dont appreciate the view… Some hot guy jogging shirtless with his dog…..Hello???!! I prefer to gaze upon the image of him…. And let him go….down the street and around the corner… And then … The spell is broken as I step in the pile of dog shit that he didnt stop to pick up… Now he is just an irresponsible pet owner. We all have baggage … annoying habits, dirty socks and pet hair. He could be my soul mate… He could be my worst nightmare. No guarantees. Theonly thing with guarantees are appliances. Do you want an appliance? I have enough appliances. Well I could use a kitchen aid mixer… And the thing about appliances is once one breaks you can run out and replace it.
When and if I chose to get back on the market( hate that term) I hope that I have learned enough about myself and love myself enough to chose a person that honors all of that in me. Right now I am being selfish with my time. Its my time. Time to love me.
No urge to merge.
Being single is a beautiful thing. Being single with a Kitchen Aid mixer, heavenly. I could really use a professional grade Kitchen Aid…..
I loved being single. Really and truly. I was happy, and still am happy. Nothing like Saturday morning all to yourself with a pot of tea, gazing out the window in my city apartment at the big blue sky.
Chef… I know right? Who the fuck doesnt think a Kitchen aid mixer is the best?
My ex got the KitchenAid. It was the first gift I ever bought him. Haven’t had the heart to buy one for myself. I do miss it, though.
Um, my KitchenAid was one of the first things I dragged along with me when I left the marital home (that and my old school Cuisinart).
The Clip,
I feel your nausea. 27 years of abuse from the Lying Liar Who Lies has battered my soul. My hatches are battened and my drawbridge is raised. The only thing I want now is to enjoy the blessed peace that comes each morning from waking up alone.
In addition, our two sons live with me. Traumatized and abandoned, they need me to come home from work every night at 6pm. They need me to fix dinner, nag them about homework and listen to the latest incomprehensible rap song. They need me on the weekends for donut runs and movie nights. S16 has not spent a night away from the house (or me) since the LLWL left us a year ago.
So, no online dating for me. No meet cute in the grocery store or blind dates with my co-worker’s cousin. Just me and the children, trying to heal.
I hear you, Eve! It’s year four since the cheater left for brighter horizons, and it’s me and my 17 and 14 year old sons here. I also have a daughter who is on her own in a different state in her first job after college, still needing emotional and occasional financial help here and there. I can’t imagine “being there” for them if I was having to handle the emotional demands of a romantic (drama-filled) relationship and all the “expectations” of that. Any person I became involved with would not have the investment in my kids that I have, and that, asshat-ex was supposed to have at this stage in our marriage and parenting. So, I’m doing it solo. Also, like others on this site, I’m getting used to my own preferences, bedtimes, routines, meals, activities, etc. and just can’t be bothered adjusting for someone else. Too much effort for very little payback.
All great points, PianoMan and Eve. I’m in the same boat, my boys are 9 and 5. Much of my Cheater ‘ s extended family inquires if “I’ve found someone”, in large part to assuage their own guilt, I surmise. I always explain to them that Cheater didn’t/doesn’t choose the kids first. If I also don’t choose the kids, my kids have no one.
Even if we’re in our 50’s or 60’s or beyond, we’re not dead. There’s always hope to find great people in your life, new friends and even a Partner someday. Time with my kids is so fleeting and ephemeral. I know they’ll be gone soon and I’ll look back and say, “that went in the blink of an eye”.
Doesn’t CL have a great article about her friend who found love in her 70’s? Maybe it was later 60’s. It was an inspiring story.
Chris, my girls are 5 and 8 and I would want them to be loved just as much as me. If I don’t choose them, who will? Not their father, who recently told the kids that ” I no longer love your mom and I’m never coming home again” as he dropped them off on the front porch, literally screaming. Certainly not that douche. Who does that? My children came inside all freaked out that they’d have another dad. (Little do they know the unpleasant surprises awaiting them from their dad). They have so little control over their sweet little lives. They are totally dependent right now on us. More than anything, I want them to turn out well.
It’s usually been my experience when I’m actively looking for something, I’m far less apt to find it. A missing shoe, misplaced bank card, important piece of mail, etc. And when I was actively working on trying soooo hard to “get over it” in the beginning and really felt like I needed that fantasy of a relationship back and a shoulder to cry on (and maybe a good night or two of angrysex), it just wasn’t happening. The cosmos knew better than my rage and loneliness-addled brain that I was nowhere ready.
So time has passed, I’ve learned that my feeling like I needed someone was part of what got me here and set about trying to get through on my own. Gradually I understood that maybe I wanted someone, but didn’t *need* someone. And why did I want someone? If someone were to fall into my lap tomorrow, would I make the same mistakes, dismiss the same problem behavior and grab my paint can and brush to gloss, gloss, gloss away the flaws? All those thoughts gave me pause.
Today, I am kinda sorta more than friends with a very sexy Brit with whom I’ve been friends for years but who (surprise surprise) never even took it there because I was married duh, and cautiously getting to know a lovely person about an hour away with whom I have a lot in common. But I am not looking for long term, for someone to rush over when I’m having a shit day and hold me in their arms or someone to steal a city bus and just happen to plow over the 40 Year Old Toddler and The Whore when they’re staggering home after a booze run… Though that last one is tempting.
It’s my hope that I can keep building healthy understandings of relationships, decide what I want and make that happen (or not), practice my improved communication skills (“If you’re not emotionally available, don’t bother.”), to build up my friend network somehow (if you like a blind, broke single mom of four with a Masters in exhausted sarcasm and sleeplessness, I’m your girl) and just someone to grab a coffee with, to have spurratic good times with and talk to in the wee hours.
It’s scary standing on the cliff of potential singledom and staring into that abyss as the other herd animals wander off in their pairs, and to think this could very well be my indefinite future. But I can stand there and stare, or I can build my parachute, jump and trust I’ll land on my own two feet and don’t need someone there to catch me.
Oh, and to the poster above who was not happy being relegated to The Friend Zone, I actually fell for The Toddler’s best friend first, but Toddler told him if he kept putting the moves on me, Toddler wouldn’t be his friend anymore. Besides making me feel like a snack cake on a kindergarten playground, it put the brakes on our delicate bud of a relationship quite quickly and I never understood why… Until after The Toddler and I were married and he laughed about it and told me one night. So my bad boy threatened the good boy away, and the good boy didn’t risk the friendship to stand up and fight. However, I only do friends first these days, so who knows?
My psychologist suggested I join a dating site nowhere around where I live when I said I used to think I was attractive until my 40 year old toddler slept with many whores…I did and it was an ego boost until I started getting the questions, uh ya so I have 3 kids and had to move home with my parents. Took myself off the site realizing I have nothing to offer anyone.
Somehow, someway, someday I’ll be on my feet.
For what it’s worth, moms with kids are attractive to men.
I’ve known a couple of men with successful careers who have hooked up with women with children. Both men loved the children and being a dad to them. I realize that n=2 isn’t a great statistical sample, but it’s certainly the case that the right man is the man who wants to embrace a large family.
Thanks for this kb-
“For what it’s worth, moms with kids are attractive to men”
Although I’m not ready to start dating, that was good to hear. I was feeling like being a single mom with a small child might not be attractive to most men. In order for me to consider anyone as a potential mate, I would have to consider them as a father to my son. Sigh……….that thought terrifies me.
At this point, I’d just like to work out some kind of “service arrangement” … LOL!
I know it was rare that my dad married my mom in the 60’s when she was divorced with 2 small kids but my dad was truly one of a kind. Not only did he marry my mom with 2 small kids-he legally adopted them too!
It is hard for me to believe that there is another man out there like that.
Pascale, There are good men out there. I’d recommend trying Harmony, Match, or one of the sites with common interests, i.e. Christian Singles, etc. I met my boyfriend on OKCupid. I went on a lot of dates. As CL says, it helps with the honing the picker. Decide what are the most important qualities in a partner and focus on that. IMHO, rejecting anyone based solely on appearance is ridiculous. I can’t tell you how many times the first question from friends, upon hearing I went on a date, would ask “was he tall” and “does he have a full head of hair”. Really???? my BF is 5’6″ and balding. I think he is smoking hot because he is a fine man, awesome dad to his children, and treats me with great care and affection. We have been together 4+ years now and plan to stay together forever.
For the past few years, I’ve read TONS of posts about women who can’t find date-worthy men. So many single men seem to want the BENEFITS of a relationship without the actual relationship! They seem to be mostly interested in sex and I’ll tell ya…it’s a turn-off!
I just ended a “non-relationship” a few months ago and I’ll tell ya…me and my 50-something slightly saggy boobs are just about ready to give up.
🙂 Same here Gypsy57!
I really like my friend but I’m just not a ‘friend with benefits’ kinda gal. I’m gonna stick with me for the time being and hang out 😀 It’s a real eye opener learning that I am ok alone and I am mighty just as I am.
Like Tempest, I have been meeting new friends and just enjoying myself being with them and just being myself for a change – not somebody’s anything.
I am grateful for everyone and everything in my life. I am a little over a year from my much needed divorce and I am just not ready to jump into a relationship, especially one with no commitment…and I’m not ready for a commitment anyway.
I enjoyed being married but I am learning that I enjoy being single also.
CL, often new chumps in the forums go on about their fear and grief in being newly chumped which almost always includes moving on to someone new and I feel like a broken record telling them to hold off on that — they need to explore themselves first. I’m like the Debbie Downer of advice because no one ever wants to talk about giving themselves plenty of time before embarking on the dating scene.
The last two+ years since d-day are the only time I’ve been alone in my adult life. Yes, it filled me with terror at first, but now I am really enjoying the freedom. Of course I’d like to share my life with someone, but I also feel that I’m more selective than ever, and I just may not find someone who is truly deserving of my time.
I’m comfortable in my own company, enjoying the company of new female friends of all ages, and am open to what may come. To be honest it just feels great not to feel desperate!
Slow down, chumps. Get to know yourself — learn to love yourself before you put yourself out there again!
Almost three years since dday and two months divorced. I have absolutely no desire to date and i dont want another serious relationship again at least , no marriage, no living together. Exclusive maybe but no cohabitation. I need to heal me a get comfortable in my own skin again. The whore even said to the ex why dont i just find somebody already true true whore she dumps them and humps the next one. Me i just want to be me and free. You rock moving!
I second Moving Liquid. S L O W D O W N . . . you are self contained. Everything you are looking for, you already have….in yourself. Now is the time to invest in who YOU are and the rest will follow.
There is nothing more attractive than a good person confident in their own skin.
+1… Except my skin is not that of a young woman… I know that I am a good person and have a lot of love to offer. Over 50 and experienced and not shy, but I don’t have the body of a younger woman. I have flaws. It’s not a lack of confidence in myself, but rather finding that needle in a haystack who isn’t superficial… I have laugh lines and crows feet and few grey hairs… things are not as tight and perky as they once were, so I can’t compete with my younger counterparts when men are looking for that… It sucks getting older and I hate that my ex was not happy with me because I looked forward to growing old together with him — now I am starting over late in the game. But, I AM happy to be free and living alone has its perks.
So true, CJ!
Sorry to hear that has happened to you accubonded. I’m thinking that the right lady just hasn’t come along yet. You know, the one who gets you on a deep level and has the maturity and good character to recognize a good guy when she sees him. The one who likes you just as you are and celebrates the uniqueness that is you. She is out there, you just haven’t met her yet.
Personally, I don’t have any male friends. It’s not that I’m not friendly, they just don’t seem to be interested. While most people peg me at about 45 or so, (I look young for my age, I’m 63) and haven’t scared any small children lately, there seems to be a thing going on that if a woman is past a certain age she becomes invisible. I’ve experienced it many, many times over the years. Like your experience, accu, it feels like a steady diet of rejection. Very hard on the self esteem.
I decided, to hell with it, I am just going to live my life. I’m going to be as authentically me as I can, follow my dreams and do the things I have always wanted to do. I’m going to try to leave the world a little better place for having been here. For me that translates into rescuing strays and finding homes for them, and having a volunteer job as a senior companion 5 days a week. It means designing my own tiny house, and taking up recumbent trike touring. It means making patchwork quilts and doing zombie portraits for folks in watercolors. It means teaching classes in metaphysics and doing readings for people. It means loving and supporting my little family to the best of my ability. It means treating myself well.
It means my life is happy and full just as it is. There is always room for another, but I am pretty choosy. I’ve thrown a few back when they have shown signs of being disordered. I would welcome a nice gentleman friend, but he would have to be reciprocal and patient with me. The ones I have run into in the last few years seem to be looking for a maid, or a cook, or a mommy, or a bed warmer, or a paycheck. I don’t know if its my age bracket, or if somehow I still come off as narc bait. In any case, they get shut down fast, and I keep on stepping.
So if someone suitable shows up, great, if not, thats fine too. I’m loving my life and grateful to be where I am.
The Nurse With A Purse. It’s sadly very common for older guys to be looking for her. Or an exact replica of the Wife Appliance that either left or was discarded.
Well as someone nearer to 60 than 50, three years post D Day, all I can say is “Thank fuck I don’t HAVE to get involved again if I don’t want to.
It used to be a given that what comes with age is wisdom. Since the Botox era arrived we older women are supposed to be either hanging on to what vestiges of youth we have or quietly disappearing. Despite Feminism (another great F word) women still get corralled into Being (ornamental) as opposed to Doing (what you were born to do).
I’ll admit it’s taken me a long (too long) time to get to this point . And yes Accubonded, I did date/cohabit with/marry the bad boys and ignore the ‘boring’ good guys right up to Cheater X. But that brings me back to the wisdom bit. To quote Natalie Lue from Baggage Reclaim- “ I’m not that woman”- now.
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/im-not-that-woman-an-ode-for-every-woman-who-has-loved-lost-and-forgotten-her-value/.
CL is, as usual, spot on with every response here but especially you don’t require a partner to be happy. I’m not saying I’m against sharing my life again, but you have to have the life you want first before you start sharing it. And that’s sharing, not throwing it away at somebody who is not going to appreciate it.
And as for this age thing- it’s a soul problem rather than a ‘find your man’ problem. I suggest reading ‘Women who run with the wolves’ by Clarissa Pinkola Estes and find your inner wild woman instead.
http://www.clarissapinkolaestes.com/women_who_run_with_the_wolves__myths_and_stories_of_the_wild_woman_archetype_101250.htm
I have a couple thoughts, as a former single mother of three under the age of three (at the time of my divorce). I am now happily married – with two more. (!)
When my kids were little, they were desperate for a “Dad in the house,” which meant anytime we were out in public, any man they thought was interesting would be asked to come home with us. Including the 7 ft unwashed homeless guy. Any time a man came to the house to do repairs, he was bombarded with questions, requests to see their rooms or a drawing they did, and if the man was single, he would get asked to marry me by my oldest (who was between 4 and 5 at this phase of things), even if the man in question was an 18 year old plumber’s apprentice or a 60 year old man who reeked of beer and urine. Don’t get me started on the Wookie they found at Wal-Mart. The point here is, other people may have your best interests (and sometimes their own) at heart, but they might not know what you yourself are looking for in a partner.
My mother is a fiercely independent chump who was approached by an older man in her driveway, because he was amazed to see a woman wielding a chainsaw and taking care of a dead tree on her own. My mother wants absolutely no entanglements, but the lesson to learn here I think is to be your fullest self, and love will find you.
Also, don’t have an age bracket, or a type. My husband used to exclusively date only tall, slender women in their late forties or fifties (he is 38 now, he liked being with experienced women). Me? The woman he married? I’m short, with Jessica Rabbit curves and I’m his age. Don’t tell love where it can, and cannot, be found.
Myself, I did a lot of work. I was single for almost six years, and I used those years to get my bachelors and masters degrees in Accounting. The self esteem boost from getting my degrees refined my picker dramatically. I dated a lot of losers, but my patience for bullshit got very short. My profile on Christian Mingle was terse and probably off-putting for most (I got a lot of criticizing comments, which I deleted), but it attracted my husband. Chump Lady is right – put yourself first, live for you. The longest love story you can ever have is the one with yourself.
I love this, Susannah. I wanna be like your mom! (and you)
I am a hopeless romantic that refuses to give up on love….have I dated since he left? not yet. I am fixing me first and getting my head and heart in a good place and making a life for myself, so when I finally do go out, I can speak of myself and not the narcissistic tornado I have been sucked into for half my life.
I want to bring something to the table and not be a barbed wire monkey looking to cling on to someone. I am learning that their are givers and takers in this world and I am looking for a giver.
during this time of self growth I am also learning, that nice doesn’t mean good and to run from love bombers (big red flag), In my younger years love bombing was romantic now its creepy and weird. Being single is not so bad, not having to compromise with someone right now doesn’t suck.
I am more then happy to be in the friend zone with men right now and if love comes my way again, I will be better prepared this time.
Well as someone nearer to 60 than 50, three years post D Day, all I can say is “Thank fuck I don’t HAVE to get involved again if I don’t want to.
It used to be a given that what comes with age is wisdom. Since the Botox era arrived we older women are supposed to be either hanging on to what vestiges of youth we have or quietly disappearing. Despite Feminism (another great F word) women still get corralled into Being (ornamental) as opposed to Doing (what you were born to do).
I’ll admit it’s taken me a long (too long) time to get to this point . And yes Accubonded, I did date the bad boys and ignore the ‘boring’ good guys right up to Cheater X. But that brings me back to the wisdom bit. To quote Natalie Lue from Baggage Reclaim- “ I’m not that woman”- now.
CL is, as usual, spot on with every response here but especially you don’t require a partner to be happy. I’m not saying I’m against sharing my life again, but you have to have the life you want first before you start sharing. And that’s sharing, not throwing it away at somebody who is not going to appreciate it.
And as for this age thing- it’s a soul problem rather than a ‘find your man’ problem. I suggest reading ‘Women who run with the wolves’ by Clarissa Pinkola Estes and find your inner wild woman instead.
(I put Natalie Lue and Clarissa Pinkola Estes links in but the moderator ate the post so here it is minus links…)
[ raises hand ]
Uhm, well, I’m right here, waiting to meet an honest woman. 🙂
[ raises hand ] um, right here, looking for a sweet, honest guy
😉
awww, you two are so cute together 😉
Also, even though there is still somewhat of a stigma with online dating, I came to prefer it (as an introvert). Yes, both men and women are notoriously superficial, but those individuals are easily weeded out (and yes, there is a lot of weeding). I found that I would much rather develop a friendship by messaging on the site (and emailing if things looked more promising) than trying to meet someone at a bar or whatever. I met my girlfriend on one of the pay sites (Match). We’re both chumps. We talked online for quite a while before meeting in person and connected very well intellectually. We discussed personal values, our family lives, our emotional issues, mutual interests, spiritual issues and so on before our first date. And even if our relationship hadn’t worked out as it has, I’m positive we would be good friends. I don’t think online dating is for everyone, and definitely not foolproof (I’m sure there are countless scumbags who effectively play the system for hookups) but it does allow you a first pass at filtering out most of the fecal matter (and bad bacteria).
Another introvert who finds online dating preferable to trying to meet people in person. I write much better than I speak, and in the early phases, I need to be able to communicate clearly what I’m looking for, and what I am not.
It’s a hell of a lot easier to tell a guy “Whoa, take it easy, you’re moving too fast” online than in person. At least for me. I did, he pretty much ignored it, and I was able to easily block and move on, whereas that can be more difficult with someone you’ve met in person and might possibly run into on a regular basis.
I tell you guys, if you send a message that doesn’t indicate you find something about her other than her photo interesting, you’re probably not going to get many replies.
When the time comes to actually meet someone with whom I have chatted, my walls of shyness will be easier to scale.
Oh how I needed this Chumplady! A good laugh is in order after my horrid first date in 40 years on Saturday morning – thankfully just breakfast. How incredibly unready I am. Met him at a singles night at my club. He said just to make friends when he asked me, but during the date explained away his two failed marriages and the end of a 6 year live-in relationship in October. Since then he’s been on 3 dating sites, but said I was the most interesting. RIGHT… And that we humans are designed to be in relationship with others and that he is looking for a relationship. So much for the friendship ruse when he asked me out.
Back to work making myself happy and doing more of those wonderful things Tracy and Tempest and so many of you talk about. This is the second blog I’ve read in 2 days about dating – God is so good! The best people I’ve met at singles nights are wonderful single women friends. Three of us are taking a cruise in April. Two of my new year’s goals are met – figure out how and who to travel with, and sing in a choir again. Now to add the next things on my list. And no, dating won’t make the list…
Where are the single good men hiding? I can’t speak for the other men out there but I am not hiding, I am just living. I am living overall the same way I was when I was still married. My priority is loving and raising my 3 young kids. That’s what I do most and gives me the most joy. I also go to work, I cut the lawn, I get involved in hobbies that I have passion in, I have yearly family vacations, I exercise, I cook, I joke, I have fun and I am super grateful to have found serenity (most of the time –even after dealing with this cluster of cheating). Do I miss having a wife to come home to and hearing about her day and sharing a life with? Absolutely, but all the other blessings in my life seem to supersede that feeling. I am certain that I will have that special woman in my life but until then, I just live today as a single-good-man.
Slow clap
It has been 3 years post D-day for me, and I’m now 41. It is so nice to be able to do whatever the FUCK I want! I don’t have time for a boyfriend, even though all my friends say, “We need to get you a man!” What a crock. I am whole, complete, independent, and my dogs and I are just fine, thank you. I enjoy male friends because girls don’t know crap about sports, and the girls my age are all obsessed with their kids. A man who cannot be happy just being your friend should never be your partner, because he apparently NEEDS a woman to be happy. Lao Tzu said “Do you have the patience to wait ’till your mud settles and the water is clear? Can you remain unmoving ’till the right action arises by itself?” My water isn’t clear yet, Pascale, and if you think you NEED a man to be happy, neither is yours.
I was blessed to have the companionship of an old acquaintance while going through my divorce. He was encouraging and positive, always telling me to let the pain and bitterness go. We have a good time together and do things on the weekends. He is supportive and we call and check on each other every day. For many reasons this is enough for me right now. I’m just trying to appreciate our relationship, but for many reasons I don’t foresee being able to marry again. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems to big a risk so close to retirement when I depend on my ex’s spousal support. What if I married again and it didn’t work out and I lost my job? I’d be in a real bind. My marriage taught me that I’d better look out for myself, and I’d better always be able to stand on my own two feet. I’m feeling really happy now. I enjoy being able to explore my own interests and challenge myself through learning new things. It seems like enough. I sacrificed so much of my own dreams and interests to support my family for 30 years, now it seems like my turn to follow my dreams. I’m happy to have a relationship, but I think I would be okay without one too. That’s huge progress from clinging onto a dysfunctional relationship that’s hurting me because I’m so afraid to be alone. I’ve come a long way. It feels good to know I can count on and trust myself, I don’t need to look for those things in another person.
You really have come a long way! Seeing your progress to peace, and happiness has made me smile many times, Lyn. I can really relate to your self-protection, too. Keep up the good work!
Who comes up with the “meet someone at the grocery store” crap.? I’ve never met anyone at the grocery store.