Extended Family Doesn’t Respect No Contact
Her extended family doesn’t understand or respect her no contact and wants her to forgive. Can she ignore them for her own sanity?
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Dear Chump Lady,
During my late teens/ early twenties, I was in a relationship with my brother’s friend. Although we never married, we did have a child together. There were instances of infidelity on his part, and despite breaking up numerous times, I decided to go over to his house for “closure.” He took my phone and keys away and blocked me from leaving so “we could work it out.” This resulted in the nonconsensual conception of our child.
I tried to avoid him and forget what happened.
Then I found out I was pregnant, and I told my mom. She kicked me out and said I made my bed, so I needed to lay in it. I wound up moving in with FW and working full-time while I supported FW, who became more physically abusive towards me when I tried to go back home.
My brother also physically assaulted me several times, which resulted in going through the Reconciliation Industrial Complex. FW’s domestic abuse, child abuse, and substance abuse resulted in restraining orders, and after years of planning and a lucky break, we were finally able to escape.
He has become the stereotypical Deadbeat while simultaneously fueling a never-ending legal battle over custody, even though he hasn’t seen or even asked about our kid in about a decade and has become the oldest guy at the party.
Meanwhile, I’ve been a sane parent, juggling a full-time job, pursuing higher education, graduating, and establishing my dream career.
I eventually married my now husband, and we relocated for his job hundreds of miles away from our nearest relatives. We have since expanded our family and are juggling a family with young kids, sports and school, and home ownership. My husband, who my child considers their real dad, wants to adopt my kid and vice versa, but I have given up on seeking any legal resolution, both financially and emotionally. I will only attend court when required, and that’s about it.
Furthermore, I have been dealing with a lot of challenges involving my FOO since I moved away to start my own life, and things escalated after my father passed away during the pandemic. My brother and his wife are addicts, and their behavior has caused a lot of problems. I had to cut off contact with them. My mother has ongoing mental health issues and misuses her medication. She can be manipulative and self-centered, making it difficult to have a meaningful relationship with her.
When my mother demanded an impromptu visit during a very stressful time, I had to decline, which led to her throwing a tantrum and assassinating my character to her former in-laws. I took a break from contact with her, which helped the situation.
However, when I reconnected with my mother, things got worse.
She would try to provoke arguments whenever I tried to keep things civil. I lost my patience and confronted her, leading to her trickle-truthing the following: my brother and his wife have been living with my mother in her basement since my father passed; my brother has been providing personal information about me to FW for years which affected the legal case with my son, he also launched a smear campaign against us online and to extended family.
My brother said I deserved it because I was the reason my dad died and refused to cooperate with law enforcement to link the cases between the states. My mother thought she was Switzerland even when our safety was at risk. The final straw was when FW’s Bunny Boiler harassed me at the hospital several hours after giving birth and had to alert security.
I decided to cease contact with my mother.
This was about a year ago, and I have had continuous attempts from my extended family to hoover me back in, but I cannot bring myself back, so I have been working on moving forward. My mother tries to act like nothing happened and sends cards and gifts for holidays that I throw away unopened. Sometimes, she sends relatives to fish for information.
I made the mistake of opening up to my Aunt about six months ago and even thanked her for her kindness. I hadn’t heard from her until a few weeks ago when I received this letter. It’s thrown me through a loop. I looked up the biblical story she wanted me to and didn’t know what to do. Can you please help?
Confused Chump
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Dear Confused Chump,
Please add your Aunt to the scrap heap of people who’ve grievously let you down, and don’t deserve another minute of your time. This is forgiveness trolling. She can shove her Bible story where the sun doesn’t shine.
That’s not very nice, Tracy. She’s probably has the best of intentions!
This little old lady is calling upon a higher power to manipulate you. She can’t just come out and tell you to eat the shit sandwich, she has to cloak it in the Old Testament. “Bitterness” doesn’t control your life — the ongoing abuse of your family controls your life. You’re trying to staunch the bleeding by cutting off contact with them.
This is DARVO.
The problem isn’t the litigation abuse from your ex, or your brother’s treachery, or your mother’s enabling — the problem is your reaction to it. Your “bitterness and anger” are destroying the family. How irrational of you!
When you find yourself having to explain basic decency to someone, you’re losing. Give up. They have another agenda.
You could try and untangle the skein to discover what her agenda is, or you can just drop the whole fucktangle. I suggest you drop it and go stare at the woods, or pet a dog, or clean your gutters. Anything would be more improving than trying to make sense of nonsense.
It could be your independence threatens her. She made different shit-eating life choices. It could be internalized misogyny. Or impression management. Or Saturn in the seventh house of Batshit. Point is, that puppy isn’t going to pet itself. You have sanity to attend to.
YOUR SANITY MATTERS.
I know you’ve been conditioned to be a chump. And your family doesn’t respect your no contact because they’ve been conditioned to think your needs don’t matter. But, by the power invested in me, as an old lady blogger with an outside perspective — I hereby declare: YOU MATTER.
If you don’t want to talk to your mother for the next three months, or ever again, you’ve earned the right. Permission granted to have boundaries!
If you don’t want to reply to your aunt and instead, have a hamster cage to line with that letter? Permission granted!
If you think King David (a cheater and a rapist) is a bad Bible story used to justify a millennia of patriarchy? I agree!
Christ on a Ritz cracker, how did your Aunt imagine this Bible story shaming would go down? OMG, she invoked Absalom! Change course at once! Here’s a tangential reference to a hoary old tale, REPENT!
Maybe send her a story back. “Goldilocks and the Three Samaritans tells me I can remain no contact with fuckwits.”
Confused Chump, stop being confused. Your new life has been hard won. You’ve got excellent instincts. Listen to them. If you want to stay sane, keep enforcing your boundaries. I’m sorry your aunt doesn’t like it. Tell her she reminds you a lot of Absalom and she should really work on that bitterness thing.
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Friday Challenge is to tell me about how you handled no contact with extended family. Or how you defanged a forgiveness troll.
Your aunt has some nerve! Line the birdcage with that ridiculous letter!
I threw it out awhile ago. First time reading it again. I haven’t responded back to her because I had no idea what to even say. She hasn’t tried to contact me since the letter which is also confusing.
Misogyny. Good for you, no contact!
There is NO response you can give your aunt that will end well for you; she’s clearly chosen your family of origin and will report anything you say back to them and try to lure you in.
Furthermore, what could you possibly say to this woman that would be productive? She’s literally rewriting history and telling you the abuse didn’t happen, it wasn’t that bad, get over it and forgive your shitbird relatives. She’s a lost cause.
I can’t stress this enough: Your family of origin is DANGEROUS. Physical abuse, rape, stalking… I mean, this is truly beyond the pale. You need to stay no contact for your own safety. Think of your husband and your kids. You have a true family now and need to protect them. These assholes from your past ain’t it.
I had addicts and mentally ill people in my abusive family of origin too. Trust me when I say if they’re not getting help at this juncture, they’re a lost cause. Don’t give second chances. My parents did and their families rewarded them with 20 more years of abuse and a lawsuit that almost killed my dad from the stress.
“There is NO response you can give your aunt that will end well for you”
Based on prior experience with her when I was in the early stages of no contact with my FOO there was a specific in person experience that stood out to me it was like she was there only to find stuff it and she appeared to only be interested in me or my family until she got what info she was looking for and left right away, it was really unsettling and I tried to brush it off which lead to the last conversation I had w/ her to stop relaying information but how I appreciated her kindness after my father passed away and then silence and now this letter and silence.
I think that she is invested in only one outcome which is reconciliation with my FOO and based on the biblical story she provided the details of my side will not be deemed a good enough reason. If I was to provide a logical reason and outlined the chronological series of events that have resulted in the no contact I would only further support her position that I am bitter and unforgiving. If I tell her to politely mind her business I will be unwilling to listen to others and combative. If I respond to her with bible verses and parables I would be petty and disrespectful, which I’m sure was a large part of the FOO smear campaigns. Even if I provide her my interpretation of the passage she provided I would be wrong in someway resulting in her becoming upset leading to more problems. If I don’t give her the exact perfect response she is hoping for which would involve a lot of rug sweeping, most likely groveling to my FOO I would lose my sense of self worth and would be knowingly putting myself and my family in a position to be harmed again and I just can’t bring myself to do that. So no response is the only reasonable response.
Exactly right, the Aunt wants you back in her sick family system. She sounds a lot like the enabler Aunt I cut off along with my parents. My Aunt was a neglectful controller like yours, swooping in occasionally to scold and gaslight, but was never supportive. Just an energy drain. No regrets cutting all of them off. My kids and I are thriving now.
100%. You can feel empathy for addicts yet still decide to stay away from them for the sake of your own well-being. I have some long term addicts in the family. I now only see them at the holidays. After the debacle with FW, I just couldn’t take the stress of being around them anymore. If I though there was anything I could do that would help them to quit, I would do it, but the reality is that there isn’t a thing I can do and they don’t want to quit anyway.
I think your aunt wants you to bend to pressure to contact the entire family. I learned during my divorce that my family supports a man’s right to be forgiven and this cancels a woman’s right to do what she thinks is best for her. I’m sorry.
I learned the same about my family and have gone no contact to protect my sanity. I never realized how deeply ingrained misogyny and patriarchy were in my FOO.
“my family supports a man’s right to be forgiven and this cancels a woman’s right to do what she thinks is best for her”
TRUTH
Seriously. My cocktail would happily crap all over it.
CC, you are only confused when you are in the vicinity of confusing, manipulative jackholes. That’s how they roll. Your aunt is not very smart, I’m sorry, so do feel free to ignore her and alllllll the rest of these people who don’t know the first thing about being mighty.
I have often observed that a single bright flame can arise out of a FOO garbage dump. You are that flame, CC. (I refuse to call you Confused, because to me you seem quite clear.) You left these losers behind after a rape (not “nonconsensual conception” in my book) and abandonment. Mighty! They don’t deserve your presence. Then you also got a life — started your dream career, forged relationships, etc. Mighty! You got higher education. Mighty!
I don’t know WTF your aunt is on about; it makes no sense. So weird how they want to tear down the one person who is thriving.
I got emails like that letter from my ex and his family. His family completely ignored all of the horrors of his mental health and addiction issues on top of the rest and said I had to sweep all that under the rug. He was a poor, misunderstood soul; love would make it ALL BETTER. Forgive and forget was the key. God had only one path for me: reconciliation. Thankfully, I cut off his family before the legal part started.
We had already nearly broken up multiple times (he even had his attorney picked out) and gone through multiple cycles of addiction. I knew that it was going to be same-old-same-old, period. I knew the divorce was going to be ugly because my husband could be brutal and threatening with me.
Believe me, I thank God every day that I said no. I might not be here, and I was near the breaking point when my husband left. More of that might have destroyed me. Then, he behaved VERY badly during the divorce, and there were hints that he was considering murder/suicide or something along those lines. My attorney is a very religious man himself, and referred to his prayers at times and how he felt God was leading. He nailed the legal part for me.
I didn’t find out about Chumplady until after my divorce and then about Divorce Minister from here. I very much recommend his work as well. His book countered all the threads of religious abuse for me in one place.
FW also used suicide to manipulate me into doing what he wanted. I remember after the last DDay he was crying saying if I kicked him out it would be a death sentence. Yet here we are years later and I’m still being compared to a murderer
Mine is still alive as well. I know because I still get the payments from his former employer. So much for all the drama I endured for several decades. If he’s still paired up that may be why. Not my committee though, not at all.
Elsie_ you are a very mighty and you should be proud of the steps you have taken to remove toxic fuckery from your life. Thank you for the book referral I will look it up
Funny that it never occurred to them that your divorce was also part of God’s plan for the FW.
His family supposedly believed that divorce was never appropriate, but my ex initiated it, saying that he had to rid himself of his disobedient Jezebel wife. He also took off and sometimes sent our now-adult kids cards about how they were prodigals who needed to return to godly Dad. Not quite.
My attorney found that all very amusing, particularly when my STBX’s attorney began blabbing about how it was an adultery case on his side. We had A LOT to work with if it had gone to trial, but it didn’t. I was ready to move on and preferred not to sit through that kind of thing, so it was all good.
The utter *arrogance* of some people never ceases to amaze me. How *dare* this old God-botherer write such crap after all the shit you’ve been put through by your utterly ghastly family! If she was a true Christian she’d know that forgiveness is predicated on repentance, never doing that bad shite again, and making restitution and recompense. In any case, it’s none of the old bag’s business, but I wouldn’t bother even telling her so, just burn the letter, and make sure she can never contact you again. From what you write, you’ve been surrounded by some really horrible people all your life, have finally escaped them, and are living a good life with a loving partner, whom your child loves and trusts. Kick these ghastly people into touch forever, and just get on with your life. You clearly have tremendous inner strength, viva you!
Long before it got to this point I told my brother if he wanted to go to counseling to discuss his grievances I would be willing to go with the caveat that he had to be completely sober. (I made the mistake with FW) He never responded but likes to tell everyone I’m unwilling to discuss anything and that I “can’t get over myself” even though he is the one who literally locked me out of my mother’s house during my father’s funeral so he wouldn’t have to look at me..
Unfortunately addiction is more than just abusing substances, it’s a toxic way of thinking that permeates everything the addict does. That’s why going cold turkey without addressing the thinking results in a “dry drunk” who still engages in unhealthy behaviors like refusing to take accountability for anything.
Like this jumped out at me as classic addict delusions and blaming others:
What the hell is your brother blaming you for? How is your dad’s death (from Covid?) your responsibility or the cause of a police investigation?
For clarity the cases between the states had to do with the Bunny Boiler stalking us because he sent screenshots to us of BB and him talking about it before she first made contact with us. My local PD said my brother needed to notify his local PD because the communication was between them, it was a jurisdiction/ legal formality thing. It would have been a 2 minute phone call with a statement that BB reached out to him prior and then they would be able to talk to my local PD about it. He refused.
The part where he blames me for my father’s death makes zero sense but still hurts. Background: during the final visit with my FOO My brother and his wife brought drugs, drank heavily and acted abhorrently in general, my Mother had another issue with her meds resulting in child safety concerns and after that I was just done. My brother thinks that I overreacted by asking for help from extended family and that was what killed my dad..
What an asshole, my god. I want to say he’s delusional but I’m not qualified to say that and unfortunately some people are fully aware of their surroundings, they’re just evil.
I find it amazing that the ways people use the bible for their own ends. Some of the worst (and best) people I have known are religious, the difference is what they do and how they live,never their bible quoting skills
It’s the assumption that I’m just someone who can’t get over being slighted and that she hasn’t asked how I’ve been for so long that bugs me. She used to text me fairly frequently and then she just stopped, I remember towards the end of our communication I told her that I did not appreciate her relaying information back to my mom which she denied and then I told her how my mom always tried to contact us about the information I shared with her. That’s when I told her that I appreciated that she stayed in touch even when my other family didn’t after my father passed away and that her kindness meant a lot to me. Silence then this. Like we have a lot of good things going on here and all she saw was bitterness and bad.
Your aunt is a liar and a terrible person who defends abusers. Yes, she’s assuming you “can’t get over being slighted”, but that doesn’t reflect on you, it reflects on her. She’s a dishonest person with no integrity who views abuse as an inconvenience when it isn’t happening to her. Who cares what such a trashy person thinks? She’s an idiot.
Of course it’s horrible, and it must feel like a big betrayal, because it is. You thought she was a better person and it turns out she isn’t. It sucks. Thank god you know this now before she could do more damage.
What a lovely story! Too bad your family doesn’t recognize that they are Absalom. For the sake of yourself and your children, cut them out of your life immediately. And then peace can be restored to the kingdom of mightiness you built.
Beautiful! 🙌🏽
First of all, regarding “our” obligation to forgive, perhaps the aunt can send this missive where it belongs: to the LW’s mother, who was not able to “forgive” the LW’s “sin” of being raped. There is one other place I think she can put her missive …
I think a lot about the enforceability of culture. Our “culture” is the water we swim in, and in many ways, like fish, we are not aware that we are wet. Culture is an instantaneous feedback loop – we are influenced by it while simultaneously contributing to it with our every action and word. For example, “our” puritanical “culture” expressed itself when the mom refused to comfort her raped daughter. I’m guessing LW learned a lesson that day as to what things must be forgiven and what things should not.
Toxic culture happens all the time: when someone makes a racist joke, or expects the football team to kneel and pray before a game, or doesn’t call out sexual harassment or infidelity, or shuns you from a church community, or asks you to forgive an abuser, or mocks someone for their unusual attire. The social punishments for stepping outside your culture are immense, especially when you live in small communities. The rule is clear: participate in our dominant culture or you will be excluded from it.
I have lived in small rural communities almost my whole life, and I notice that one of the first things you can expect from a group of white men is a racist joke, and you either laugh at it, or you’re going to end up being pretty lonely. I’ve been pretty lonely.
This is why I despise organized religion -NOT faith or belief, but the actual institutions themselves. I look around religious institutions and all I see is a network of cultural enforcement that serves to entrench abuse. I see this on this site Every. Single. Day. I saw it with my mother, who was excommunicated from the Catholic church when she divorced her abusive husband – a Catholic church that goes out of its way to shield the pederasts and abusers in their midst.
I counted the number of times the aunt used the word “we,” “us,” or “our” in her letter: 32 times. The cultural tyranny of the enforceable “we”: if LW wants to remain part of “us,” she must comply by offering forgiveness, the practical result of which, in this instance (and so, so many others) is to protect the abuser and shield them from consequences. Shame on her. Shame on them.
Yes about everything you said, especially about the behavior of groups of white men. Recently lunched with 4 rich(ish) white guys. The oldest in the group made an inappropriate fat lady joke with my well-nourished female at the table. I desperately wanted to say something but I was genuinely shocked into silence. A few minutes later, he said something else inappropriate (commented on the attractiveness of his new boss). I blurted out “THE PATRIARCHY IS REAL” at the same time my female relative said “It is time for you to retire”. Im making it my goal to refuse to acquiesce to this kind of shit ever again.
Is “well-nourished” a euphemism for fat? 🙂 I agree with you in that particular instance, not so sure about the second. Why is it inappropriate to comment on someone’s attractiveness? Unless he said something like “phwoar, like a piece of that! ” Which I agree in that case would be offensive. I think we need to be careful not to police language to the extent a man’s not allowed to say, “what a pretty girl”, or converse ly, a woman’s not allowed to say, “what a good looking man”.
THANK YOU. We need to sound a foghorn every time this kind of shit happens. Good for you!
And you know what’s messed up? I bet those men thought they were being extra polite because they were in mixed company.
I remember the whole “grab her by the pu$$y” fiasco, and one side was saying “oh, it’s just locker room talk,” and the other side was saying “no, that is not how men behave in locker rooms.”
I was split in the middle, because I knew how messed up that statement was, but I have played on college sports teams, and yes, men speak like that in locker rooms. I have heard things so horrible I can’t even repeat them.
Yes, NO! Unforgivable. And see where we are now?
I never thought to count the number of times she used “we”, “us”, or “our” in her letter. I counted out how many times she chose to write the word “bitter” (nearly half a dozen times).
I also wondered why she sent it to me and I seriously doubt she sent a similar letter to my mother or my brother and his wife.
“bitter” in her vocabulary means “backbone.” How dare you have boundaries and self-respect. How dare you protect yourself from criminals.
Your aunt thinks she can manipulate and shame you into compliance, using the heavy hand of religion. I’m estranged from my brothers and my mother tried a similar tactic to force contact/forgiveness. Funny how she never shared this enlightened sermon with my abusive siblings.
You are not BITTER. Yo are strong and I’m so impressed with you. You are taking care of yourself. That word is so often if not always use to describe women who have proudly and joyfully had enough. I want to write an entire essay on how women who are done with being treated like crap are called bitter, and they are the opposite – they are FREE. Stay free. Stay true to yourself. You are so amazing. I am so impressed with what you have done considering where you came from.
And people are saying don’t read stuff. My FW 20 years married, 30 year relationship, 2 grown sons) sent me a letter last xmas, we have not seen or spoken in almost 10 years but he financially abuses me, the only contact we have is through my lawyer. I threw the letter in the garbage and poured cat litter on it. F that guy. And I have no contact with anyone who is friends with him- new life!- and yeah. It’s the way to go. you matter. We matter.
The cat litter was a nice touch. 😄
Yes, I definitely saw the extensive use of the word “bitter.” In the Pantheon of human offenses, you would hope that bitterness would be hundreds of rungs below rape but, alas, here we are.
It sounds like you have done everything right to protect yourself and your child. Getting away from your FOO and, more broadly, your home culture, can take a tremendous act of will and courage. It is so hard, and what you have accomplished is awe inspiring. Furthermore, the heartache that you feel when you realize that the people who are supposed to love and care for you the most just … don’t … is excruciating, and follows you around for a long, long time.
In addition to LACGAL, one book I found very useful was F*ck Feelings. It is a lighthearted self-help book that really helped me develop simple and effective strategies for dealing with situations like this.
I always repeat what the director of the advocacy program I used to work for said about emotions, that they’re like colors in a paintbox and none are good or bad. All that matters is what picture you paint with them. I could say the same about bitterness. Whether it’s good or bad really depends on what it’s based on and what people do with it. People who are bitter about injustice might be more prone to do something about it, etc.
Besides, without well directed bitterness, there would be no comedy. Hello, George Carlin.
Bitterness is a completely valid and appropriate emotion to feel after experiencing this type of abuse, and as you say, emotions like bitterness and anger are sometimes constructive – they are instrumental in giving victims the strength and motivation to flee. Healing medicine is often bitter. If a person in MovingOn’s position were floating through life completely blissed out, I would actually be more worried. Other people don’t like bitterness because they don’t want to deal with the pain of others, and they don’t want to confront something that challenges their safe notion of a just and ordered world. Better to pretend that the predator in your midst is just a misunderstood sad sausage.
You are completely right about organized religion.
Dear Confused, Someone once told me, “When you feel confused, someone is con-ning you and you are ‘fused’ into them. I have found this to be true.
I think the reading comprehension of this flying monkey aunt needs some work. Is she comparing CC to Absalom? Because no where in CCs letter does she mention having her rapist FW killed. Leaving a dangerous person and going no contact with people that threaten your safety is not at all the same as killing an abuser and growing in bitterness and hate.
Please do not let this apparently barely literate aunt make you feel bad about the steps you have taken to protect yourself. Mail her a pair of your old sneakers, tell her she needs to go take a walk for about a mile or so in them and reconsider her perspective.
Yeah, auntie is not too bright.
I thought the comparison to biblical characters was the most confusing part. I read the chapters and verses she told me too and I’m just not getting the same take away as she is from her sermon. I started reading a book called The Cry of Tamar: Violence Against Women and the Church’s Response
That looks like a book I’ll have to put on the list.
CC, you are a superstar. What you have done with your life is so impressive.
I think your aunt was sent in to spy on you by your mother. Everything you told your aunt, she has told your mother. These people don’t know the meanings of the words respect or boundaries. It sounds like the whole lot of them are freaks.
I would recommend just adding your aunt to the blocked list and that you not respond to the manipulative letter at all.
“Family” like this you can not only do without, you will only have peace when they are out of your life. They aren’t ever going to change. It’s hard, knowing that. You want there to be hope and there just isn’t.
I am so very sorry for all you have suffered and I’m in awe of your resilience.
same
Honestly my fuckwit isolated me from those people and it’s been pretty radio silent from them for the last…even before D-Day and her departure. I have a couple of her childhood friends on social media but there hasn’t been direct contact. If they have had contact with her I am none the wiser-I am under the impression that she probably cut them off as well. And I don’t overshare on social media(other than here-sorry!) so…yeah. Being at the year mark now I would predict a possible ramp-up but we will see.
Back to the matter at hand with our friend Confused Chump-you go, girl! Stay away from those idiots and you should probably discard their mail unopened. Part of the whole process is determining who is worth your time and who is adversarial.
The angle I am seeing here is that our friend Confused Chump has a life. She is working and pursuing education and is married. As far as her fuckwit and these people are concerned, she’s rich. We have a lowlife fuckwit, a mentally ill mother, and an addicted sibling and his personal parasite. And entitled idio…ermm, “people” tend to have a radar for “oh, this person has extra money. That they should be sharing with me. Because we’re “family.” Oh, and no expectation of reciprocation. Also because “family.”
Family is not just blood. Family his whoever helps you put your life back together after trauma. Part of the chump experience is figuring out who stays and who goes.
I genuinely do not comprehend why people think they can send Bible stories to other people to make them change their behaviors. Not that I do not see value in faith and scripture-it’s just that personally I treat a lot of that like a physics equation-I see something from Corinthians from somebody attempting a clear manipulation and my brain just sort of shuts off. Which is sad-I know many people that have gained genuine strength from their faith.
TLDR-you are doing the right thing by staying away. Ignore them. They haven’t helped you at all and now it sounds like they have their hands out.
Have a Fuckwit Free Friday!
I understand the entitlement part. My mother’s sister (different Aunt) went off on me for not sending her a picture of my baby shortly after no contact began I tried to be polite and tell her I was going to do something special and send something out when I was ready. She cussed me out and stopped talking to me and has been telling other relatives she’s done with me and agreed with my mother on how manipulative I am… She was the one I was closest to my entire life and I haven’t heard from her since. I’ve just kind of noticed after a key family member dies things get worse.
The she’s rich part is both amusing and concerning. I never really thought about it like that before.
I hear you on the “key family member” thing. It’s pretty clear to me that my grandmother held that side of the “family” together. When she passed years ago most communication ceased and to the four winds we all went. Unless somebody needs money. In which case…”family!” It’s one thing if it’s somebody that keeps contact. It’s another when you realize you are in their “little black book of suckers.”
Reading the letter above it was very clear the message was “come back home.” Getting sucked back into pathology notwithstanding-people have something to gain by your return. I don’t see a rational(not that these people tend to be rational) reason to recall you unless they can guilt you into fixing their problems. Among the other amazing people I have the privilege of serving, I also serve a panoply of addicts and scum bags. I’ve become well acquainted with their mentality and this smacks a lot of “work.”
Again, I get a little stabby(as my Sanity Canary reminds me) when somebody “suddenly” gets interested in reconnecting…and leads with some variation of “you owe me, never you mind what I’ve done to you.”
This kind of vague language is the hallmark of flying monkeys. They don’t want to name and explain the actual bad thing that happened – that would be admitting it was awful – so they wrap it in euphemisms like “the past” or “what happened”, and talk about “forgiveness” and “getting over it”. Notice how Aunt never mentions any of the things that Brother and FW and Mom did to the LW. That’s because she knows it would be a harder sell.
Also – speaking of Christians who don’t actually know their Bible, David is canonically not a great guy! The Torah (your “Old Testament”) is in part a history. It’s not meant to portray these people as great heroes whose behavior is A-OK.
I did notice that she glossed over a lot when writing about the sermon or even the scripture and she used general strokes while applying it to a situation she really does not know many of the details of.
First of all, Confused Chump, let me deeply congratulate you for having created a successful and joyous life for yourself with a great husband and kids and a career – and you really really made the sweetest lemonade from an enormous pile of lemons. As someone who grew up in an extremely chaotic and abusive family, I know how hard that is and I just want to say how much I admire and respect you and your achievements GLOW! Often we gloss over these things because we’re so used to hardship and overcoming obstacles we don’t give ourselves enough credit. It’s just another hill to climb. Give yourself MASSIVE credit!!! You are one of life’s real heroes and you’ve given your kids a great role model.
As for your family….fuck ’em and feed ’em cheese. I think your aunt may mean well but I don’t know if she knows the whole story or really understand it. Religious people tend to be kind of soft in the head, IMO. I hear this forgiveness shit and I want to reach for an axe.
Let’s go back to that Biblical story. I generally LOVE Bible stories although I hate organized religion. I think the Bible is the history of the Jewish people and it presents all kinds of stories about these people and their families, sometimes really sordid stuff, with no real commentary other than to show the consequences. THE CONSEQUENCES ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE STORY. The consequences of David allowing his daughter to be raped by her half brother with no punishment was that it destroyed his family relationships including the one with his favored son and heir, Absalom. Amnon didn’t just “sin” against his half sister…HE RAPED HER. That’s a fucking enormous sin and I don’t blame Absalom for going after him. I think he did the right thing. The one who did the WRONG thing was David….who did nothing to find justice for his own daughter. Here is the passage with the whole story, which is even worse and more complicated than what your aunt wrote: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Samuel+13&version=NIV
Tamar, a young innocent girl, was deliberately plotted against – to be sexually assaulted – by her half brother and his counselor. Then after Amnon raped her…he hated her and had her kicked out. She went to her father WHO DID NOTHING. NOTHING. NOT A GODDAM THING. This is the same guy, btw, who had Uriah, Bathsheba’s husband, put in a deadly combat position to ensure his death so he could grab Bathsheba for himself. NOT A NICE GUY. Tamar went ultimately to live in her brother Absalom’s house, a broken and despised woman in a time when a raped woman, a non virgin, had no value. Nothing further is known about her. She had no agency and no voice. Let us GIVE Tamar a voice. Her brother Absalom rightfully avenged her because KING DAVID DID NOTHING. He gave no justice. He was angry, but not angry enough. To me, this is lesson of the movie, Unforgiven, when no justice is done, people will take justice for themselves AND THEY SHOULD. What happened was not Absalom’s fault, but David’s fault for not meting out justice for a raped, and disgraced woman who had no future in their culture. That was pretty much the real end of Tamar’s life.
You on the other hand, live in better times and you actually had your child, which is an amazing thing. Most of us, possibly including me, would have got abortions. You are a strong and valiant woman and your aunt cannot even imagine the hell you have been through, this is why she makes such useless, puerile statements about forgiveness not even knowing what the hell it is to forgive the kind of awful crimes that have been done to you WITH NO JUSTICE. Without justice, we cannot have a society, we will be ruled by jackals like your ex and your brother and his family.
As I say, your aunt may mean well, she’s trying her religious bullshit out on you to try to “heal” you and the family and of course, this does not work. It’s simple minded and it DOES NOT WORK. I would just thank her for her letter and leave it at that. If she doesn’t continue this, perhaps if you care for her otherwise and just think of her as a foolish, well meaning, old woman (there are a lot of us) maybe you can still have some relationship. But if this cuts too deeply or it continues….she’s gonna have to go into that Goodwill pile for pick-up too. You have been through too much and life is too short to interact with toxic people. It should be kept to a civil minimum at best. If you feel you have to answer this, tell her that something like, this is too painful and private a matter to discuss and you don’t want to go back over it. The record of interactions with these negative family members and your ex have been consistently destructive and will be so in the FUTURE, which is a big reason we go NO CONTACT. No one needs to pre-order shit sandwiches.
Keep staying strong and living a beautiful life and leave these terrible people behind as much as you can. You owe them NOTHING and nothing good can come from it. That’s not the same as hating people, we can all understand why some people are profoundly fucked up but…it doesn’t matter, what matters is your peace and calm and being in control of your own life without others trying to use you. You don’t owe ANYONE either communication or forgiveness and forgiveness is completely unnecessary in this life. All you need is to get to the point where you life your own life in your own way, and it sounds like you’ve reached that.
GOOD LUCK AND CONTINUED SUCCESS!!!
I like how you summarized everything so well.
My brother has on more than one occasion screamed at me that “I’m just the girl who cried rape”. It’s not something I advertise and his wife justifies this by saying “It’s not a big deal because he only treats me this way” I don’t understand how one can be that morally bankrupt.
I never realized it until after but my father used to be the one who would do his best to smooth things over for appearances. I remember he never wanted me to leave FW or go back to school and I did anyway but I wasn’t allowed to talk with him directly about these things I always had to communicate with my mother to talk to my family. Now that he is no longer with us it has become very apparent what was going on for so long.
“Morally bankrupt” is right. What a pack of miserable shitty losers. I’m so sorry.
I don’t know how to edit on here. The last I spoke to my Brothers wife was when we were planning my dad’s funeral and I told her how I was upset with the way he treats me and her response was that she didn’t see what the big deal was because he only treats you this way. Then she said how he treats her better and he treats my mom better and maybe I should get help because it was clearly me that’s the problem.
All these people suck. Seriously, they’re dirt on your shoe. They don’t deserve you.
I’m so sorry for how your own family has treated you, it makes me so sad. I wish I could give you a big hug. They’re a bunch of depraved assholes. I would not be surprised if your father had dark secrets of his own. People so willing to excuse a crime like rape often have their own past issues. I’ve seen this in my own FOO. I’m so glad that you have made such a good productive life for yourself as I know how hard this can be and sometimes WE are the biggest obstacle to overcome because of conditioning and being beaten down, sometimes literally. You have done an amazing job.
The thing that perhaps stands out most for me in the terrible story of Tamar, perhaps the saddest story in the Bible, at least in the OT, is that things haven’t changed THAT much for rape victims. The story of Tamar is rarely mentioned in sermons or Biblical discussions – the religious establishment finds it an “embarrassing” or sordid story and it also puts King David, whom they laud mainly for MILITARY SUCCESS, in a bad light, which he deserves as he was not a good or just man. So we hide Tamar still, just as her family and culture did. Tamar’s story should be one of the main stories we should TELL in religious settings! We tell the story of David and Bathsheba often….but no one ever mentions Tamar. The idea that someone would use this tragic story of abuse and injustice as the basis for convincing someone to “forgive” similar, but….unnamed….abuse, horrifies me and shows me that, once again, very religious people often miss the whole point and use the Bible and Jesus and religion in general as a way of making themselves more comfortable by getting others “under control”. Tamar’s story is NOT about forgiveness, it is about the consequences of injustice and making victims invisible and powerless.
Just as an aside, Absalom’s full story (he wasn’t a good man either despite avenging his sister) shows that rape as a tool of war – that rape is actually a statement not of sexual desire, and certainly not love, but of OWNERSHIP OF PROPERTY AND DEMORALIZATION AND CONTROL – is as old as the Bible for Absalom later declared war on his father and publicly raped his father’s 10 concubines. So he was not any advocate for women or justice in general….just his sister because….she was HIS sister. People still act like this today all over the world including the US because rape is generally an act of ownership and statement of control and conquest….over an individual woman and maybe a statement of conquest in a society. IT IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE FORGIVEN but something that like any terrible event we have to overcome and have a life afterwards that reclaims our personal autonomy and agency. You did that so well!
I can see you are well past that, and I’m so glad. If anyone tries any religious or Biblical bullshit on you again, they just don’t understand what it’s about. The Bible is primarily a history that tells the story of a people, good and bad, and leaves us to contemplate the consequences. It doesn’t say that rape is okay, or stealing someone’s wife, or stealing a brother’s land or casting out your concubine’s child, etc, is okay….just that this is what real people actually did and we can see the consequences (some of them even stretching into OUR era!) and they generally are not good. Just because someone is a character in the Bible or someone’s ancestor does not mean they are deserving of praise or of being followed. King David in many ways, was a BAD MAN and what happened to his family reflects his own sins. Your aunt is never going to be able to see this because she wants to rug sweep everything for a more comfortable life for herself and the family. Interesting how the Mafia also refers to itself as “The Family”. She’s using both the Bible/religion and The Family to get you back under control. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!
Thank you for sharing your story with us and please come back and visit with any updates or just to say hello. It’s always great to see someone achieve success despite all the flack life throws as us.
I have struggled with my mom’s toxic behaviour. She has been absolutely vile to me many times. She actually told me that my bio-dad had passed away a week before…at my daughter’s graduation party, in front of everyone! My daughter, her friends, my in-laws, everyone. When I reacted with shock, she said “I didn’t think it would upset you so much”. When she saw that we were all upset, she got in her car & drove off without a word. My stepfather called me after to ream me out for forcing my mom to leave!! Mom also manipulated me many times knowing how to push my buttons….because she groomed me that way. My mom hated her mom for doing the same thing, but she’s ended up just like her. I have to stay away from my mom as much as possible so I don’t do the same. Just realizing I’m breaking this generational dysfunction helps me to maintain my boundaries.
There’s an old saying that I think applies here and it comes from Shakespear. All good quotes come from Shakespear, Mark Twain or Oscar Wilde, it seems. “The Devil can quote scripture for his own purposes.” And this is so often true how people twist religion for their own purposes and comfort.
Origin: Spoken by Antonio in “The Merchant of Venice”, written by William Shakespeare (1564-1616):
Mark you this, Bassanio,
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart:
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!
I have a comment still awaiting approval, can this be checked on?
What is it with these people??!!. I can’t tell you the anger I felt when my 17 year old daughter decided to go no contact with dad, Aunt, and extended family during this divorce transition. She received the attached letter on her 17th bday from Aunt. Daughter had just moved 12 hours away to attend a performing arts school, and was living on her own. Aunt didn’t like the boundary my daughter had set wanting nothing to do with any of them for her own sanity.
Background:
Ex had an affair with married AP at daughter’s studio and they served on the board together. AP also had a teen there. Board was in the processing of investigating (covering up) sexual abuse by studio director in which my daughter had direct knowledge of the abuse from friends/victims.💔
Letter writing Aunt, “christian”, has also made mistakes – falling in love with her current husband who was married at the time to another. But hey – HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! Live and Learn! Life is HARD. Forgive and forget! Can’t we all be friends or when that doesn’t work let’s try shaming your niece for having a boundary. She is “missing out” on being a big sister to her new step sister??!!
You can not make this stuff up…… Chump Lady – feel free to translate if desired.
Attached letter from Aunt:
October 22, 2019
Dear XXXXXXXX,
I wish I had the words to fully convey both how proud I am of you and yet how sad I am at the same time.I’m proud of your accomplishment and the opportunity you have been given. I’m proud of the strong young lady you have become. I’m even proud that you have strong convictions by which you have stood, but I’m deeply saddened by those same convictions.
It saddens me that you have decided to forgo relationships with your dad, XXXXXXX, XXXXXXXX, Uncle XXX and me because you are hurt by decisions with which you did not agree. My prayer is that you can try to forgive and mend the relationships that have been strained and that we can all grow and learn from our mistakes. None of us can take back what has been done to hurt each other, but we can all try to move forward to become the best human beings we possibly can in our new circumstances. With these new circumstances, you have a very special opportunity in being a stepsister to someone who can lookup to you in so many ways and to be loved unconditionally by another parent- figure. Please don’t let this special opportunity pass you by.
There will always be people in our lives who will make decisions with which we won’t agree, but if we isolate ourselves from these people, we would become very lonely indeed. Please don’t do that. You are too important to those who love you. Love is never perfect; it’s hard; it takes a lot of patience and forgiveness, but in the long run, love is always worth it. I want the best for you and will always love and support you, as I do with all of my family. That doesn’t mean that I’’l always agree with everything each family member does, says, or believes, but it does means that I will always be there them no matter what.
Hopefully you have taken the time ot read this letter. It wont’ surprise me if you didn’t, but I needed to say what was on my heart. If you aren’t ready to read these words today, that’s ok; maybe someday you will.
I really hope you have a wonderful birthday and that your experience at XXXX is exceptional.
Much Love,
XXXXXXXXX
Wowzers! Can I get a side of guilt with my mashed potatoes at the family holidays? Maybe Auntie thinks gaslighting goes well with the green bean casserole? This is not shit sandwiches, more like a full blown, all you can eat buffet! (Tell your daughter to keep being strong!!!)
Whoa! That’s manipulation on steroids. Anyone who would write such a letter in those circumstances is to be avoided at all costs, because she’s not completely inept at her game (as so many are) which makes her dangerous to your daughter’s emotional health.
🤮
” … we can all try to move forward to become the best human beings we possibly can in our new circumstances.”
THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT YOUR DAUGHTER IS DOING!!!
And, again, the “decisions” and “mistakes” and “strain” are never named.
We can’t change people, we can only change people.
Sounds like the LW is well on her way to surrounding herself with good, sane people. The rest can drift away, floating in their damnable hypocrisy.
The moral of the story is you did not kill anyone like Absalom did. Auntie is clutching at straws to bring you back into this crazy koo koo family. It takes a lot of work to find a scapegoatish Chump to take your place. I doubt they have any takers.
Boom. “Who will be our scapegoat now?”
IME, abusers are desperate for their escaped scapegoat because on some level they know they’ll start turning on each other.
That’s an astute comment. I’m sure that’s true.
That is what it feels like. That’s also not my problem.
I just don’t understand how if she wants to invoke the Bible why can’t she also understand the biblical purpose of the scapegoat… The goat doesn’t come back after the sins are bound to it and it’s cast away it’s set free in the wilderness to fend for itself…
Agreed, 100% not your problem.
I don’t think you’re going to understand your aunt’s reasoning. You’re never going to understand the logic because your aunt never used logic to reach her conclusion in the first place.
It’s no fun without a victim!
Bitterness.
The most bitter people are the ones sitting in the stink and mess of their poorly lived lives (and mother’s basements) knowing that you are a few hundred miles away with a loving spouse, nice home, good job, dental insurance and a 401K. They cant stand it and will do whatever they can to bring you down.
These are precisely the people to avoid, especially if you are related to them.
CC, you are incredibly mighty. I am in awe of all your accomplishments–your child, work, education, new family– especially because you triumphed over terrible odds including an abusive, controlling FW, and the abusive and control of your family. You do not owe any of your FOO any contact whatsoever, and it is in the best interest of you and your present family to have no contact with any of them. It’s quite possible that your aunt want you back in the fold to take care of your mom and druggy bro and his partner.
I can understand your use of “nonconcensual conception” to protect your child from possible stigma if defined that way, instead as the result of a rape, but it sounds like that’s what happened after FW took your phone and keys and blocked you from leaving. You should ask your attorney if acknowledging this legally would counter FW’s ongoing ilegal harrassment.
Please don’t shy away from law enforcement. You mentioned your brother refused to cooperate with them to link the case between the states, so I hope you moved some distance away. Yet you wrote,The final straw was when FW’s Bunny Boiler harassed me at the hospital several hours after giving birth and had to alert security. That sounds like stalking as well as harassment and would seem to merit law enforcement and court, not just security.
It’s understandable that you hoped for something good from your aunt. It sounds like your aunt feels she will have done her part if she can shove the problems with your mom and brother onto you, a financially-stable, competent adult.
The real story here is the same old story, and not the one in the Bible. Your aunt sees the probems with your mom, brother, etc., she won’t or can’t help them, so she’s trying to make it your responsibility, thereby, in her eyes, absolving herself for not doing more, allowing her to congratulate herself for “fixing” the problems if you step back in, and giving herself a convenient scapegoat if you refuse to fix these unfixable, despicable people.
Maybe she’s nice, but weak. Maybe she’s overhwelmed by their problems. Maybe she’s just righteous, or misinformed, or looking for a redemtpion story where she can be the heroine for bringing you back to the fold. It doesn’t matter.
You and your new family matter. Keep on being mighty.
Sorry, when I wrote to CL I just kind of trauma dumped everything after I received the letter.
Just for clarification: My brother knew the Bunny Boiler and knew she was trying to make contact well in advance of us even knowing she existed. I was working with my local PD, DVC, school district on a safety plan for myself and my family here (address was confidential to begin with). I was 8 mo pregnant and reached out to my mother after the BB swatted my home in response to a Cease and Desist letter. That’s when I found out my brother knew the entire time (he sent screenshots of conversations between him and BB) but refused to follow safety plan recommendations to his local police so we could link the harassment cases between the states. BB is mostly gone but I worry she will come back.
My eldest child does not know the circumstances of their conception, and very few people knew about in general
No apologies necessary at all!
I’m glad to know you’ve worked with those agencies. I’ve been involved with them also. Responses vary dramatically depending on the individual(s) you work with.
One police officer advised me to give photos to be kept at the front desk and security office of any facility we attended, so problematic individuals would not be allowed entrance and police would be called if they tried. Any photo will do, although a mug shot is particularly effective. That police officer kindly provided a booking photo (from an unrelated offense) to me. I suggest BB, FW and your brother. He’s a real jerk. BB sounds restraining-order level deranged. Since brother and FW are friends, maybe FW put BB up to it.
Given your family, the stalking, and harassment, it’s possible that one of them will find a way to reach your child and tell about conception. It’s unlikely, since it puts FW in a poor light, but possible. You’ve probably already told child that the family likes to srpead lies and create rumors about you and your relationships. I hope you’ve prepared a response if you’re asked by child, so it won’t be awkward because you’re caught off-guard.
Having to be on-guard makes us hypervigilant and leaves us scouring every contact for hidden motives, which often DO exist. Extending no contact can bring you a lot of relief. I wish a peaceful future for you and your family.
I try not to mention FW to my eldest unless it’s necessary and keep the details limited (my eldest has only a few memories of FW, which resulted in therapy). It’s not my place to tell them how to feel; I just let them know that none of it is their fault and that it’s my responsibility to keep them safe.
The last I heard, my brother is hoarding birthday presents to inundate my eldest with once they turn 18 in an attempt to buy their love… my guess is FW is involved in some way if it’s true, and it’s just kinda pathetic…
My FOO is a complex subject, so I don’t discuss it with my kids. My eldest had an abysmal experience with my mother the last time they spoke years ago and wants nothing to do with her. My younger kids don’t know my FOO or don’t remember meeting them.
Re that story about your brother’s plans when your eldest is 18, that’s frightening. I think it’s smart to protect your kid from the gory details, but do they know these people are dangerous and not to accept anything from them?
I plan on bringing it up when they get to the age of social media access. We are a fairly low tech household and don’t do the SM thing, kids don’t have tablets or phones or have gaming consoles. I would bet dollars to donuts that FW and FOO would try to add them as friends on SM before they would try to send gifts. When I started throwing away my mom’s cards unopened my eldest asked why and I told them that they could do what they want with grandmas gifts but I was worth more than whatever was in that card . When I threw out my baby’s personalized blanket my mom shipped to our home with no warning and no indication it was from her when the BB stalking was at its peak I just thought that the Natives also accepted blankets as gifts and look how that turned out.
I think that’s wise. I also think it’s scary and very telling of how dangerous your family is that they keep sending your kids gifts. Even now they still don’t respect your boundaries and seek to control you and the kids. They’re essentially saying, “You think you can go no contact with us? HAHA, we’ll show you!”
Blood may be thicker than water but so is used motor oil. I feel very lucky in the parents I had and several uncles. But once that elder generation passed away, I was relieved to drop the pretense of getting along with my awful, entitled cousins just to avoid stressing out the elderly. From what little my kids remember of these cousins, they don’t miss them.
my mom invokes biblical stuff anytime she wants her argument to have more credibility, if she doesnt invoke god she will invoke another person – such as ‘Kevin agrees with me’ or ‘Al and i think’ shes done this my entire life – and i have always resented it – its such a clear end run around logic and rational thought…..and also its bullying – by saying your point of view is less valid than mine – because see more people agree me or if she really wants to hit hard – god agrees with me – basically saying you cant argue against god – its just magical thinking.
What’s weird about this is my mother, brother, FW are not a religious people. So even if the biblical message was correct it still would not apply to them.
I once heard a pastor describe the marriage union as Leaving your FOO Cleaving to your new spouse and and Weaving a new life with them together. Remembering that helped keep me sane during the ostracism.
Of course you are confused! You were raised in a chaotic family system that feels more natural than the peace and freedom you have found outside of it. It is ingrained into you on a cellular level. Feelings of guilt and family obligation resonate with this programing.
I am remarried and my wife’s adult son died from alcoholism despite many people’s best effort. She started attending Al Anon during his worst struggles and continued for a year after he passed. It is a great program to learn boundaries and separate yourself from participating in disfunction. If you have tried Al Anon, please consider it.They have face to face and online meetings. https://al-anon.org/al-anon-meetings/
I’d like to add an addendum to the adage “Every accusation from a narcissist is a confession… and so is every bible quote.”
How interesting that Confused’s aunt refused to specify in her letter that the “sin” Amnon committed against Tamar was rape and that Tamar was also Amnon’s half sister, ergo incestuous rape. And somehow Absalom is the bad guy for taking this seriously and resenting his father for playing Swiss? As if, eh, rape isn’t such a bad thing?
It’s such a weird choice that I suspect the aunt didn’t just happen to hear the parable in church but clings to it for much more personal reasons which I’m guessing have something to do with the aunt’s childhood experience as well as Confused’s mother’s childhood experience. In other words, both may have been victims of sexual abuse and violence within their family though not “survivors” of sexual abuse in the sense of emotional survival.
I feel that former victims who go on to either subject others to the worst of what was done to them or who enable those abuses to be done to others are not “survivors” but more like trauma zombies or angry poltergeists who go around punishing the living out of jealousy. The “living” are victims who refuse to eat shit sandwiches, who speak out and advocate for themselves and others and refuse to obey the rule of silence. The “living” can also simply be people who managed to avoid being traumatized at all (how dare they!).
Maybe I’m just projecting because the above describes my former MIL to a “t.” In my experience, trauma zombies like exMIL invariably end up being abusers in their own rights even if it’s simply pushing others into the path of harm though my former MIL did far worse than that. Her internalized misogyny was so intense that, if there were no men around to properly put women in their place and sexually traumatize them, she’d fill the gap by sexually harassing other women herself using the old misogynist trifecta of attacks on sexual attractiveness/femininity/moral purity (usually motherhood).
In any event, forgiveness trolling seems to be a big part the trauma zombie profile. My exMIL insisted that her son forgive the family friend who raped him as a teen except, rather than quoting the bible, exMIL justified this on new agey spiritual grounds.
Going NC with exMIL was like an exorcism. I have zero qualms and I’m very happy she’s had no contact with her grandchildren for years. I’d prefer grandma not eat my kids’ brains and infect them with the trauma zombie virus like she did her own kids.
I really appreciate your insight. I don’t know the specifics of this Aunts upbringing but, I know my mother had a very traumatic upbringing and although I sympathize with her I actively chose to make different choices to break the cycle. I’m sorry you’re exMIL sucks, you are very mighty for doing your best at preventing further Trauma Zombie Virus (I love this analogy!) exposure to your loved ones
I think most if not all abusive adults were once traumatized children. I know my former MIL was. She’s basically walking scar tissue. I can definitely feel sorry for the victimized children people like her once were but that sympathy is only wasted on adults who choose to subject others to the worst of what was done to them. I’d rather channel that energy into protecting today’s kids from suffering the same fate.
My sister is compulsive on FB and is in contact with the world 🌎. She had forgiven her X and him cheating and leaving her for the pastor’s wife 11 years older than him, while she was pregnant. She felt my cheater had been such a nice guy in the past that he needed to be acknowledged???? I told her my story and begged her not to talk, write, text or FB my cheater due to a restraining order and his gun collection. She could hardly be convinced. Finally I told her that I would ask her each time we spoke if she had contacted cheater in any way. If she said yes, then there would be absolutely 💯 No contact between us. I think that worked but she was definitely more kibbles for my cheater. Again I say, just because we are chumped and are left behind, does not make us not a chump anymore like my forgiving sister. It takes a ton of work to break out of the cheaters lies, gaslighting, feeling sorry for THEM, listening to their sad sausage stories. It takes staying in CN and getting your brain recycled from all the sheer abuse. To get his words OUT OF YOUR HEAD and to find the mighty person hiding in stark terror inside. No Contact with Switzerland people, relatives, anyone who takes your mental health into the toilet, needs to be seriously enforced.
You are leading a wonderful life. You have fought and overcome adversity for every piece of it, down to the last brick.
You have earn’t your current free life because of the person you are and the strong, intelligent choices that you have made. Mighty, mighty, mighty!
Here comes a lightweight, self-invested and non-empathic person from across yonder, enmeshed in a dark spider web system (in this instance it just happens to be called a “family”), throwing out a sticky, toxic ‘life line’ to you.
Touch that thing and you will be snapped right back into the confusion.
Chump Lady is right, drop that blackened rope and go no contact.
There are two parallel universes here – your ‘Aunt’ can swill around in hers and you forge ahead doing you in yours.
From where I’m reading it’s very clear which one works….
What a beautifully worded post.
BITTER stands for Being in Totally Truthful Emotional Reality.
Am I BITTER? Yes, I am. That’s Ms BITTER to you, thank you.
As someone who went no contact with my FOO years ago, after years of participating and speaking up about serious family issues and being ignored and scapegoated and blamed and villianized, I support your decision to not participate in any relationships where there is no trust or safety or respect (aka, LOVE).
Peaceful Barb, Barb Schmidt’s Instagram account, is one of my favorite pages. She’s at therapist and offers a lot of support for no contact with relatives and has her own experiences to draw from. She and her daughter also do a great podcast, Barb Knows Best. This is an awesome and extremely beneficial use of social media IMHO, and they are part of my pit crew.
Thank you VH. I LOVE your insightful truths and inspiring analysis. You have gotten me through the dark times. Trust that they suck because they aren’t only poison, they fed you poison. Don’t keep going back for seconds. Eat at a table of bounty with new friends that have your back.
Here’s to Tuesday! Hugs.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C-WUhGbPO1Z/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Here’s a sample!
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C-k7wawvHym/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Dear CC. I also applaud you for getting out and finding a life. Congratulations! I hope so much that you find peace, and soon. I am at peace. I still have issues pop up from my dysfunctional family members. Some are very directed and quite foul. I even believe one or two of those family members get malicious glee at coming up with every way that they think they can hurt me. My best response is no response. And lots of prayer. I pray for them and I pray for me. I think your response to this letter depends on where you are in your life. If you’re still dealing with all of the nonsense, and it sounds like you are (nobody my age is having children), then your best response depends on what you want ofyour Aunt’s relationship towards you and your children. If you truly believe that your Aunt is just doing this out of love for you, not manipulating you, and if you are at a point in your life where you just want to distance yourself from all of the ugliness, then I recommend that you tell her, “Thank you for the information. I will think on it. But for right now, what’s best for me and my family is just to stay away as far as possible from anything that causes me distress.” If your Aunt is being manipulative, “Then I recommend you say, “At this point in my life, I need as little stress as possible. This has caused me stress, so if you continue, I will have to exclude you from my life as well.” I’m 64 and fully believe in organized religion. I’m not like many of the other chumps here. I do believe in forgiveness. But I think the issue with how most people believe the meaning of ‘forgiveness’ is that they think that it means ‘forgive and forget and reconcile’. That’s absolutely NOT what it means to me. Forgiveness freed me up from the anger and bitterness that I held in my heart for a very long time. Each time I pictured that dick’s smiling face, or thought of another crappy thing that he put me through, I’d find myself irate and I was being eaten up with bitterness. It was only after I forgave him that I was able to move on and no longer get angry whenever his name was brought up. I will never have a relationship with that cheater and liar. If he had the chance, he’d do it all over again. But forgiveness for me meant giving it to God to deal with. The FW is now God’s problem and once it was no longer my problem, I found peace. You have to make the decision on the meaning of your Aunt’s missive. I cannot, nor can anyone else discern that for you. I will say this, if I had a young niece that had gone through all of the abuse that you have, and if she was filled with bitterness, I would say, ‘The bitterness is hurting you. The FW would get a tremendous amount of glee knowing that he still has the power to hurt you, even in your mind. Let God deal with it, and move on.” May you find peace soon. Let it go. You deserve better.
Thank you for your response. I think she means well, but I think she is only invested in a specific outcome and I know that whatever I tell her will be shared with my FOO which will just cause more problems. I live very far away from this Aunt and right now if just like to keep the peace because she is also one of the primary care givers to my only living grandparent who is the main family member I do not want to prematurely lose contact with. I lost a lot of my extended family due to ostracism and smear campaigns after my father passed away and the grandparent is where I draw the line.
After reading LACGAL and doing the whole unraveling the skein of fuckedupness and doing the Amazon Chump thing for a really long time which originally started w/ FW my eyes were open to to the extent of my chumpiness throughout my life. I used to simultaneously both pray for FW as well as curse FW which was just another form of hopium imo. I now think thoughts and prayers are a passive way of acknowledging an issue, it doesn’t actively do anything except make you feel a bit better temporarily. The let go let God mindset was really helpful.
If I read the Absalom story correctly, he was a murderer who avenged the rape of his sister. In LW’s case, no one avenged her sexual assault. No one helped her; her family made it worse.
The hardest thing here is to understand that none of these people are safe for you to deal with. Not one aunt or uncle or cousin or niece. You were sexually assaulted. They were supposed to protect you, not urge you to make nice with your attacker. They want to drag you bag to get you to play happy extended family in spite of how
You can block them on phone, text and social media and put other communications throw the shredder.
My husband and I thought that after initially reading the story the first time thought that Absolom was in the right for avenging his sister, years after the fact. But it just completely dismisses Tamar she’s just a passive person that moves a narrative, not you know someone deeply traumatized,that part bothers me alot. King David ( I assume is supposed to represent my mother?) not only sucks as a person but sucks as parent because they basically allowed abuse and mistreatment of Tamar ( I assume I am supposed to be Tamar) by Amnon and his co-conspirator (I assume is supposed to be my brother and FW) because Amnon is the favorite golden child. That sucked to see that even extended family can see the favoritism but are trying to explain it away and justify it. I’m not understanding who the hell she thinks is supposed to be Absolom in the story is it me but I’m also Tamar? is it my husband and if so why didn’t she send him the letter to let her know how she felt? It appears that to her Absolom is equally at fault when I view it as a cascade of failures from the family to protect someone brutalized traumatized and then abandoned
That really is the hardest part to accept that I don’t have any safe extended family anymore.