Husband Says Cheating with Men ‘Doesn’t Count’
Her husband says cheating with men doesn’t count as infidelity. She’s a stay at home mom who feels like she cannot leave.
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Hi Chump Lady.
I read your blog posts and feel inspired and then look at my own life and still feel trapped and overwhelmed.
My husband has been cheating on me physically for 2 years. Before this it was just online stuff.
He is probably bisexual and he cheats with men that he meets on hookup sites and in saunas.
Because it’s with men, and he says that he’s more attracted to women, he doesn’t see it as cheating even though I’ve told him it is.
He can be verbally aggressive to me and our older children, but smothers the younger ones with love and they adore him. The youngest is 2.
He is currently having a glam up — weight loss, hair and teeth treatments and is becoming objectively more attractive. Oh and he’s a very high-status high earner too. Women think he’s amazing and if we weren’t together he would have his pick of gorgeous women.
Me on the other hand looks older than my age, am socially awkward and have very low self esteem. I don’t think I could handle another relationship and I wouldn’t want to put someone else though being with me so know I would be alone and lonely forever.
My husband brings in all the income into the house and I have a pretty easy life where I don’t work and can spend my days looking after the kids which means more to me than anything in the world. He is away quite a bit and at those times I’m happy.
He used to pester me for sex but has stopped now as he says it’s humiliating when I say no.
I have tried – but I can’t bring myself to do it knowing what else he is up to.
I am so miserable with him, I resent his ‘glow up’, his freedom and his money but feel that leaving him will make my life ten times worse than it is now and I’ll just be a bitter old hag. I’m 45.
Please can you give me some perspective as I feel like I’ve lost all mine.
The stupidest chump
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Dear Chump,
You’re not stupid, you’ve been mindfucked. Examine the evidence: You have the good sense not to sleep with a guy who is having high-risk sex with men. You read my blog, and you’ve considered leaving. Clearly, you’re not dumb. You want perspective? I got perspective.
Yes, of course, cheating with men is cheating.
Mr. Closet Case knows this, but an outrageous lie is so much more fun to bludgeon a chump with than an ordinary lie. People who study authoritarians call this phenomenon The Big Lie. When it comes to mindfuckery, go big or go home. The more outrageous — there’s a vast Deep State conspiracy that made him go to a bath house — the more believable in a way. Because it’s a power move. Gosh, he seems so certain about this. He wouldn’t lie to me so blatantly, would he? Could I be wrong about what I know about cheating?
It’s easier to call out small lies, but the big ones that FWs dig in on are harder. HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF CHEATING WHEN I WAS AT BIBLE STUDY! He wouldn’t say something so outrageous if it wasn’t true.
And of course, you don’t want to be wrong about this man, or the life you’ve invested in. So you try to believe him. Hello spackle my old friend…
Cheating with men isn’t cheating is his big lie.
Duh, it’s cheating. Same as if it were goats. Who/what he finds attractive is besides the point. What matters is what you find acceptable in your relationship.
Do you want to be with a closeted gay / bisexual /goat-curious man who isn’t faithful to you? No? Talk to a lawyer.
He can be verbally aggressive to me and our older children, but smothers the younger ones with love and they adore him. The youngest is 2.
Emotional abuse is enough reason to leave. Don’t model dysfunction to your kids. Abusing you doesn’t make him a loving parent. It means he excels at impression management.
Your lawyer will enjoy his high wage status.
He is currently having a glam up — weight loss, hair and teeth treatments and is becoming objectively more attractive. Oh and he’s a very high-status high earner too. Women think he’s amazing and if we weren’t together he would have his pick of gorgeous women.
Great. He can afford child support and alimony. And you can present your attorney with the financials of what he spends on extracurricular activities as theft of marital resources. Let him enjoy the pussy/dick buffet unfettered.
Me on the other hand looks older than my age, am socially awkward and have very low self esteem. I don’t think I could handle another relationship and I wouldn’t want to put someone else though being with me so know I would be alone and lonely forever.
Lonely forever is life with a fuckwit.
You are presently lonely forever. Get UN-lonely and choose independence. Leaving a cheater does wonders for your self-esteem. Don’t think about how your stock trades in future relationships now — that’s advance homework when you’re far on the other side. There’s a slew of socially awkward happy single people out there living their best lives. You are NOT living your best life. You’re being abused.
My husband brings in all the income into the house and I have a pretty easy life where I don’t work and can spend my days looking after the kids which means more to me than anything in the world. He is away quite a bit and at those times I’m happy.
Talk to an attorney about alimony and support. You may be able to continue your present lifestyle minus the FW. That said, entering the workforce isn’t a death sentence — it’s financial independence and autonomy. It’s modeling badassery to your kids. It’s investing in YOURSELF over him.
You also need to have a good hard think about your values. There’s no status in being married to a man who cheats on you. It doesn’t sound like you and your children would be destitute — you’d be less comfortable. Domestic abuse is never comfortable. No material assets are worth it. Ask a few bazillion of us here how we know. In any case, be strategic and talk with a legal professional. Divorce settlement can include money for job training, lump sum pay outs, transfers of assets.
He could leave you.
That’s another possibility you need to consider. People with double lives do not make stable partnerships. Get ahead of this NOW. While there’s a cushy job and affair partners to depose. And leverage points for settlement. Don’t wait until he loses his job, or runs off with a Schmoopie, or transfers wealth while you’re busy minding children. Your wife appliance days are numbered.
I am so miserable with him, I resent his ‘glow up’, his freedom and his money but feel that leaving him will make my life ten times worse than it is now and I’ll just be a bitter old hag. I’m 45.
I have a feeling I’m a German shepherd. Your “feelings” are self-defeating and not based on anything other than your anxieties and prejudices. You are so miserable. What do you imagine 10 times worse than miserable is?
I’m a happy 57-year-old bitter old hag here running a blog. And I’m not married to a cheater. Independence is pretty fucking sweet. You should try it.
I know it has been said on this site before, but I’ll say it again. Get tested for sexually transmitted diseases. Also, do not let him know you are seeing a lawyer until he is served. Please be angry about how he has treated you. It will motivate you to do what you need to do. This site and the facebook page are wonderful for support and guidance as you go through this. Many of us have been through and we are willing to help fellow chumps. Be a badass and sane parent for those kids. You can do this.
Everything Tracy said is true, especially the ‘he could leave you’ part – AFTER hiding (or spending!) all the money. Please talk to a lawyer. And the late great Doctor Ruth (probably) said, “Even cheating with a chicken is cheating.”
Can we see a show of hands here from chumps who felt “unattractive,” “socially awkward” and as if they looked older than their years while being cheated on?
Of course chronic emotional abuse is never great for health, sleep or social confidence so the weariness and furtiveness may eventually show to some degree. But what I’ve realized in retrospect is those self perceptions and feelings not only aren’t real, they might not even be “our” feelings and self perceptions but, like a communicable disease, something we “catch” from abusers. One easy hint in the case of the OP is who is it that’s spending a fortune to glam up– her or the FW? So who is probably the most consumed with a sense of not being good enough or looking too old, etc.?
When I think about the nature of abuse and what purpose it serves for abusers, obviously part of it is control and probably textbook reenactment of their own horror show family of origin dynamics except, as adults, abusers will reverse roles and play the powerful perpetrator rather than the helpless victim with the (usually subconscious) aim of resolving those longstanding feelings of helplessness. But part of the sick satisfaction of reenactment and what enables an abuser to exalt in their power is when victims play their assigned roles well and, like good method actors, actually experience all the negative feelings and self perceptions that abusers once “caught” from their own abusers.
For that purpose, cheating seems to be a particularly efficient form of transference because, while cheaters simultaneously run around gobbling up ego and attention kibble from randos like ravenous pigs, they shift the burden of their own original fears of abandonment and feelings of being worthless, undesirable, unlovable, unattractive and even suicidal impulses quite neatly to victims. Proof that this is intentional on whatever level is that whenever cheaters experience the usual slings and arrows of playing around on the notoriously brutal meat market– say, get the “ick” face from some young barista or new hire they’re trying to groom, get mocked for being the old perv in the pickup bar, dissed or rejected by an affair partner, etc.– they end up with a fresh batch of bad feelings that must then be immediately transferred to the victim in the form of direct verbal or emotional abuse.
In that sense, victims of abuse are like paintings in the attic from Dorian Gray. Our function is to be the repository of all the self loathing, helplessness, despair and terror that abusers wish to no longer feel. And I think it works exactly the same as in the Oscar Wilde story: that when the painting is “destroyed” (the victim leaves), and the ugliness and misery is immediately returned to Dorian Grays who curdle up into slithering balls of maggots and torment.
I know it could sound like a sad sausage bid for amnesty for poor suffering abusers to talk about how hurt people hurt people and all that but once someone does unto others the worst of what was done to them, they’re no longer victims but fiends and I have no sympathy. The point of this is only to suggest that the negative self perceptions that survivors experience can radically change once they get out of the demented orbits of abusers because those were never their actual feelings to begin with.
*Hand raised* I aged in reverse by 10 years within the first 18 months after divorce. I’ve literally never looked better in my life. 20 years with a FW damn near killed me.
Ah, it’s the one case where it’s fun to be suspected of felony fraud lol. The lawyer I hired to expedite the residency process in another country told me that he initially freaked out and thought the passport I showed him was stolen or fake because the photo didn’t look like me and the age seemed off by a decade. I think I freaked him out again by the way I laughed when he told me this. Prior to that, people were making cracks about watching my blood pressure.
Best rejuvenating skincare routine: fuckwitectomy.
Hell yes, I felt unattractive, socially awkward and older than my years while being cheated on. I even developed “old people” health issues, some of which resolved with leaving the cheater but sadly, some of them are permanent. Get out before you have permanent health issues as a result of the constant circulating catecholamines from a persistent “fight, flight or freeze” state.
🙋🏻♀️🙋🏻♀️🙋🏻♀️🙋🏻♀️🙋🏻♀️ right here. Up and until I left and divorced my cheater (between DDay and my life after – lost a ton of weight (FW and 40 lbs) – my skin cleared up and reverse aged to where people think I’m in HS. Before then, I was overweight, stressed out, anxious and angry all the time (because of him).
“Can we see a show of hands here from chumps who felt “unattractive,” “socially awkward” and as if they looked older than their years while being cheated on?”
Hell to the yes. I was 41 during the worst of his abuse and photos of me then are ghastly…I look old and ugly and lost and inside I was suicidal (except that I wouldn’t leave my kids).
At some point, I was 113 pounds, my hair was falling out and I had hives. He was living it up with Susan of Settle.
Listen to what everyone here is saying about abuse. They are right. My Cheater was also harsh with the older kids and too nice to the youngest. I stayed in that situation and it created a fuckedupness in my kids that they have thus far in adulthood not fully dealt with. My reasons for staying had commonality with yours, but my “staying for the kids” really turned out for the worst.
I am not a fan of blackmail (or the like) but it seems that being in control of the narrative and the situation (and not waiting for him to leave you in a dastardly manner) would possibly get you a better settlement. You agreeing to no paste his secret sexual basement crap on billboards all over town could motivate him to settle quickly to your advantage.
Lastly. You are a valuable sexual being of your own. While it is too early to dwell too much on what is in your relationship future, whatever the hell it is will likely be better than being a celibate (for self protective reasons) married to a closeted gay man.
I didnt leave my cheater but he died. I raised my kids and remarried and I love my life.
Ditto. In photos from the worst stages of DARVO, I looked like that skinless anatomical figure on the Westworld poster or maybe heroin-era Keith Richards. It didn’t meet the BMI measure for anorexia but got close and I’m tallish so the effect was more startling. No matter what I ate or how many vitamins I took, it all got burned off with anxiety. Oh and the hair loss– by the fistful.
Some chumps gain weight, others lose it but the good news is that so much of the health damage from trauma seems to magically resolve once you’re finally free.
Making the move while he’s still closeted, and holding that as an ace in the hole is definitely good strategy for getting a better settlement. For the closeted protecting their closets is more important than anything else. And once she leaves, she should feel as free as she wants to tell her story to whomever she wants, because he’s the one who dragged her into his closet without her permission and expected her to stay there.
And don’t listen to anyone who tells you it’s not your place to “define” his sexuality. Because one thing you do know is he sure as hell ain’t straight, a fact he decided to withhold from you. If you haven’t found it already, please check out the forums at ourpath.org, which used to be called the Straight Spouse Network. Within just a few miles of my house I met three women in the same boat . . . your experience is depressingly common, but the good news is as CL and Adelante point out, you have lots of leverage and, as we can all tell you, life is so much better on the other side.
Wow. Thank you so much for taking the time to write this comment. This is exactly what I needed to read today.
“Can we see a show of hands here from chumps who felt “unattractive,” “socially awkward” and as if they looked older than their years while being cheated on?” ✋ Me. Now I look & feel great!! Can handle any social interaction too. As one of my good friends says, “losing your husband was like you lost a piano tied to your ass”!! Amen, Sister.
I shouldn’t have been surprised that I suddenly looked better and seemed more “appealing” to others following a fuckwit-ectomy. From working as an advocate for survivors of dv, I already knew that abuse causes oxidative stress but I really didn’t realize that I’d been abused until it got so out of hand that there was no denying it. Probably by the same route that abuse increases the risk of birth defects and cancer, it can mess up your skin, hair and muscle structure for a time, not to mention what it does to our behavior and the intangible “vibes” we give off.
In any event, I wasn’t at all prepared to feel suddenly socially “in demand” because I’d “accepted” for years that I was a hot mess, prematurely aging, socially inept, etc. Since then I’ve realized that there were a lot of factors that made me feel so ugh and socially gauche and, though part of it is normal wear and tear and lack of time for self care that come from prioritizing kids, most of it stemmed from that chronic low level abuse even prior to the cheating spree.
One thing I’ve speculated on is that abusers kind of mark their victims with a sort of territorial “stink” that puts others off. Whether it’s just that haggard demeanor victims develop, that eerie “fifty yard stare” that follows some traumatic incident or general social hesitancy, other people may unconsciously, intuitively “smell” that a predator is somehow in the mix and have the self-preserving instinct to steer clear or worse– the sick ones will reflexively cuddle up to the predator as an unconscious way of groveling for amnesty.
I also only realized in retrospect that that perception of myself was partly a form of compliance with FW’s agenda in order to avoid his wrath and punishment because he needed me to perceive myself this way in order to give him more power and security in his one-sided freedom. I can look back now and remember whenever I, say, started going to the gym again or made new friends, etc., these were the times FW would suddenly amp up the stress at home, pick fights out of nowhere, make mean “jokes” at my expense, etc. The events would seem disconnected enough that I didn’t put two and two together (of course because, if the motives for coercive tactics are identifiable, it reduces the potency of them and where’s the fun in that?).
The end result is that, whenever I thought about going to the gym again or calling up those new friends, a feeling of mysterious futility would come over me that made me repeatedly put those things off. It didn’t even matter if FW lovebombed like crazy in apology after picking fights, being irritable or a shithead because the “training” had already sunk in. In fact, the seeming randomness of punishment/lovebombing was part of what made the Pavlov’s dog training so powerful. But in hindsight, none of it was random.
Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. Old fashioned frog-boiling in other words.
Excellent and preceptive commentary on the dynamics of abuse.
Hi smart Chump,
I’m a 42 year old bitter hag! I walked away from a cheating husband who was gone most of the time for work while I minded the kids. If course you look tired, because you prioritize others like all good parents of a toddler do! I look SO OLD. While FW was working out every day, sleeping through every night, going to the chiropractor…. I was happy to get a chance to cut my own hair and go to the dentist, who yelled at me for not flossing every day (who has time for that EVERY DAY! With 2 toddlers!).
He cheated with a narcissist like him, someone who neglected her own children but “flattered his physique.” When I (finally, clearly) saw his priorities (me me ME!) I also was disgusted and could not touch him.
I divorced him with a 60/40 asset split (50/50 retirement because I’m “still young” according to the judge). I had 2 years of spousal support and I bet you could get more – I just didn’t fight over it. I work full time but the older they get the less my kids want me around anyway! I am dating a decade-older man whose sparkly wife had a glow up on his dime then left him; he looks like me, like he puts others first. I got my diastasis fixed (pregnancy injury) with the asset split, but my bf said don’t do any other enhancements – he likes that I am natural and not fake beautiful like his ex wife became. We just moved in together in a nice place and my acceptable but tiny first home (that I purchased with proceeds from the marital home) is on the market.
I hope that all makes sense. Point is, you will be fine.
Just go. Take control of your life. It’s exhausting, but it’s a happy exhausting!
So true about the exhausting. I know after I was alone I was scared and exhausted. I was working full time, part time and throwing in a college class each semester. I would go home exhausted. I can’t say I was lonely, as I think I had gotten used to it in the year of discard. I was less confused, the fear I had was more of a can I do this fear. I did do it and got a little stronger each day. It was for sure easier for me with no children dependent on me. My son was fully emancipated.
But yes at some point he will leave, the wife appliance gig is finite. A man who shows no regard for his spouse will leave at the time that serves them best.
Less confused, and the kind of fear you can handle 😊 That’s a great description of freedom from a FW.
Feeling so terrible about yourself is a direct result of living with the FW. You’ve been mindfucked so hard for so long that you don’t even realize anymore how bad it’s gotten. I was you 16 months ago, when I finally walked out on Pennywise the Fuckwit Clown after 34 years. I couldn’t see anything in my future but misery, and felt I was the most worthless creature in the universe. But it had gotten so bad that I really believed that I was going to die if I didn’t do something drastic.
Today, with the help of my family and friends, and Chump Nation, I feel like a totally different person. Getting away from the poison of Pennywise was a game changer. Life is not perfect, and I still have bad days, but I like myself again, I am finding joy again. Divorce is still in the works (he’s fighting it, furious that I’m taking his cake away) – so I’m not at meh, but looking forward to Tuesday.
Most importantly, I know I deserve better, and I’ve found my Mighty. You will too.
Ah, the whole time I was reading CL’s response, I was thinking, “but he could leave, he could leave, he could leave … ” and then she said it.
He Could Leave You.
He slept with other people when you had a newborn (probably while you were pregnant). Anyone capable of that is quite capable of pulling the rug (harder) right out from under you. Get. a. lawyer. Get one before he does, and keep very very quiet about it. Get a lawyer who deals with high-conflict divorce, because this guy won’t go without a fight. You need to basically assume that he’s on his way out. As CL also wisely said, “Your lawyer will enjoy his high-earning status.”
I’m nervous for you, LW, because you seem beaten down, but hundreds of people on this site have found their mighty.
“but hundreds of people on this site have found their mighty.”
Agreed, though I would say likely thousands.
Dear Chump,
I can relate to how you’re feeling. I’m socially awkward, have never been considered attractive, and now I’m 53 so even what minor attractions I may have possessed are saggy and wrinkled! I don’t expect to find another life partner or even a casual boyfriend. In fact, I don’t even really want one. I was with my ex since I was 18, so this is the first time I’ve been on my own in my adult life. I do miss physical affection and theoretically would like some kind of friends-with-benefits situation, but even that seems too far out of my reach and the thought of the look of disappointment on someone’s face…ugh.
But you know what? I feel much less lonely now than I did before. And I feel like I’m living a real life with integrity, honoring my own worth and not trying to present a fake front to the world. For awhile I felt so self-conscious about being divorced, but at some point in the last few months, my outlook changed and I feel proud of being independent. I’m a strong person and I’ve decided my life goal now is to be the best mother I can be as well as a good and supportive friend in recognition of all the wonderful support I’ve gotten.
Much to my surprise, I’m feeling pretty happy these days. It might not be Tuesday quite yet, but maybe it’s Monday afternoon? (For context, DDay for me was May 2023 and I asked him to leave immediately; our divorce was final last fall.) Please believe–a better life is possible.
Mighty AF!
One reason you feel the way you do about yourself is that he cultivates that feeling in you. If he cheats on you exclusively with men, he’s not bisexual; he’s a closeted gay man. You may be a woman, but you aren’t proof he’s bisexual. Nor are your kids. Nor is his “pestering you” for sex. He can pester you for sex for a lot of reasons other than that he is sexually attracted to you as a woman. He can be “proving” to himself–or to you–he’s not gay. He can be working to bond you to him.
His sexuality is a smokescreen; you spending your energy thinking about whether he’s day or whether he’s bi keeps you from thinking about the real issue, which is that he’s cheating on you, willing to expose you to STIs, disrespecting and devaluing you, and checking out of the family he has created.
He’s a double cake eater. He wants his wife and his cheating. And he wants his straight-appearing life (his wife and family) and his underground life of fucking men. That job of his that means he is away from home for extended periods is a common tactic of closeted men. The bottom line, however, is that it doesn’t matter what his sexuality is.
If you don’t know them, look up Our Path (formerly Straight Spouse Network) and Omar Minwalla on the secret sexual basement.
Look at what you say about yourself: When he’s away, you’re happy. When he’s home, you’re miserable. He is “aggressive” with you (is that verbal and/or physical?). You watch him undergo his “glam up” and feel worse about yourself. Yet you are casting about for reasons not to leave–it’s “easier” for you financially–and running yourself down as socially awkward. Maybe you’re socially awkward because you’ve got kids to look after and don’t get out of the house for work or a social life. it’s difficult to have a social life as part of a couple when your spouse is regularly away for long periods of time, and believe me, a closeted man likes his social life to stay superficia; it’s one way he protects his double life.
Take CL’s advice and see a lawyer. It’s a difficult step, but easier if you think of it as exploratory, just something you’re investigating because you might need the information, or as a needed protection for your kids. Because a closeted gay man who is “glamming up” might also be gearing up to leave you–and his closet.
Otoh, he may be lying about cheating exclusively with men. That would be what I’d bet on.
But as you say, his sexuality is irrelevant.
Amen to everything you wrote. Personally I think cheaters, like all domestic abusers, should be given their own separate sexual identity distinction– “abusosexual”– because, regardless of gender preference or pronoun, their sexuality is primarily centered on needing to victimize– requiring a victim hypotenuse in their endless betrayal triangles (the sacred geometry of all abusers)– in order to get their rocks off.
It may even be what enables closeted types to feign a marriage to the less preferred gender– the same reason why many ostensibly “solidly straight” or “solidly gay cheaters” are often switch-hitters who might periodically have sex with the less preferred gender– or, for that matter, why cheaters who appear heavily hung up on appearance will periodically bonk astoundingly ugly people. It’s because the rest of an abuser’s sexual identity or preferences– gay, straight, bi, trans, he, she, them, etc.– is subordinate to their overarching need to betray. In other words, what does it matter what the “knife” (affair partner) looks like or what pronouns it uses as long as it’s sharp enough to stab the victim in the back with (and, like a lot of witting affair partners, even relishes that function)?
In the end I think the main takeaway is that abusers need victims. Even if they’re planning to eventually run away, it’s not much fun if no one’s chasing them and pining over the great loss. Like Velvet Hammer put it, affairs are like three legged stools that fall over once the “victim leg” is removed. The idea is similar to Erich Fromm’s theory that perpetrators of all stripes are “dependent” upon their own victims– need their victims in order to experience the illusory rush of power and to escape intolerable feelings of powerlessness– yet attempt to mask this dependence from themselves and others.
I think it’s important for survivors to understand this in order to prepare for the seeming contradiction that, while their abusers may very well eventually replace and abandon them once they feel sure the victim is “all used up” and too broken to ever move on to a happier life (which, as much as they pretend otherwise, is an absolutely intolerable thought to most abusers), any attempt the victim makes to escape prior to the abuser being “ready” will be met with a really surprising amount of rage to the extent that the abuser is then left to contend with the intolerable feelings of dependency they’d so carefully tried to conceal. Consequently, there’s a very high probability that, if the abuser’s attempts to hoover aren’t successful in pulling the victim back, there will be serious post-separation abuse and the divorce and custody process will be contentious.
I think this is a major underlying reason why a lot of victims are afraid to leave– the intuitive, lizard brain understanding that the abuse might get even worse once they do. I can attest that, especially for people with minor kids that could end up as footballs in a contentious custody battle or who are financially vulnerable, the thought of abuse getting worse (when it’s already half-killing you) looms so terrifyingly that it’s like trying to look into the sun to even imagine courting it. And that’s where people start grasping at excuses to stay put. I think even the inability to imagine ever having a happy future and experiencing low self esteem is really just part of the process of compliantly “playing possum” as a survival strategy. Even imagining a happy future without an abuser and feeling good about oneself might be perceived as “disloyalty” (many abusers seem to have an extrasensory radar for this) which in turn could be “punishable.” Imagining a dim future and crappy self perceptions are, in a sense, a way to defer punishment.
But this is exactly why the advice to use stealth in preparing an escape and divorce is so spot on. The better prepared we are to deal with potential post-separation abuse (and the more unprepared abusers are to preemptively punish), the less frightening and paralyzing the specter of it becomes. Once the fear begins to abate, projections of the future could start to automatically brighten.
Yep, abuseosexual is what they are. My FW is nominally straight but after Dday I found out he has been known to lead gay men on. I suspect he likes crushing their hopes as much as he likes being wanted.
I remember this scene from the brilliant film Shame when the sexually compulsive character– who’s clearly het– ends up “hitting bottom” in a gay club. This also reminds me of something said by a therapist I went to after a workplace harassment/stalking incident. I asked her why creepy guys always assumed women were willing to have threesomes or were casually bisexual (the harasser first tried to use another woman to lure me into a vulnerable situation. It didn’t work so he tried to assault me). She said that it was mostly projection because narcissists would basically fuck anything out of a need for attention. Considering that this was happening in LA, she also said that men with substance abuse problems had likely encountered a lot of “party girls” on the club scene who would engage in sex with other women either for ego kibbles or to entertain men for some kind of perk or payment.
I had to ask because I was a bleeding heart, LGBT-friendly babe in the woods of switch-hitting narcs and predators. I honestly didn’t understand how someone would go against their own hardwired sexual preferences to screw their less preferred gender. The bigger question that this raised for me is whether abusers are people who have their hardwiring screwed up to the point they somehow fall short of being actual individuals. So how would they ever understand another person’s individuality or inviolable sovereignty as a person?
Some things I think we just can’t understand….you just look at it and shake your head and thank God you’re not involved – anymore.
Independent of my own experience, I’ve always been really interested in forensic psychology, mostly for political reasons. According to political philosophers like Karl Popper, Tzvetan Todorov and Hannah Arendt or modern watchdogs like Chris Hedges and David Price, if you want to know whether a society is veering off in some totalitarian or generally crappy direction, keep an eye on weaponized junk behavioral science and junk genetics because, since the time of Plato, “scientism” is often used to rationalize and “sell” disastrous laws and policies, wars of aggression, human rights abuses and steering entire cultures towards sadistic and bigoted social practices and attitudes. For the sake of contrast not to mention some pretty useful interpersonal applications, the voting public should probably gain enough literacy to explore which theories and concepts aren’t junk or weaponized.
It’s easy to see in chumpland how certain prevailing theories influence divorce laws and official and social attitudes that deeply impact families and the social fabric for better or worse. Consequently I see junk science shills like Perel as “harbingers” of a lot more than just attitudes towards cheating.
You might be” smarter” than a chump…like me…so I will have to call you a Frozen volunteer. Although I did not know about OW until both my cheaters gave me a big Dday..still, abuse became acceptable on a daily bases which was a horror show. I was FROZEN by my vows, by his family by my church by our beautiful history by the children. Not by money as I was the major winner here but by my good Samaritan role of my stability and loyalty to a loser, abuser. When you get away, your eyes will POP open. Now you ARE having sex with this cheater..even one time 2 years ago for that cute baby had?. Protect yourself..semi abstinence will still get you very sick. And then who will take of your children? A lying cheater who does not love you in the least? You are his “front” normal. I do not envy you your frozen state. What will thaw you? Keep reading here and let us breathe into your heart the MIGHTY many of us have. Some of us with ZERO Support. Listen to Tracy. She holds the light of truth up high. No one else speaks this truth and her blow torch will defrost you . My hope for you is to GET OUT NOW while he has a job and funds. Then you can stop your every 6 month STD package at your GYNs office and the thousands I bet you spend on quack therapists who want your ongoing support forever.
My quote for today is. When the pain of staying outweighs the FEAR OF LEAVING, you will make your MIGHTY MOVE. You are stronger than He thinks. Surprise him with your courage and write us back with your freedom from abuse letter. Best wishes on thawing out!
I honestly think you’re in a great position – if you get a lawyer/solicitor & toss him out!! He likely doesn’t want his ahem, extra curricular activities known at his job or social circle….so you can trade on that for a decent settlement. You’ve been emotionally & mentally abused, beaten into submission & that m-f’er thinks you’re too weak now & will take whatever abuse or crumb he throws at you! You’ve got to dig down deep now & find your inner warrior & fight back!! A kick-ass lawyer/solicitor will help you find it & surrounding yourself with kick-ass friends (go find them if you have to in a women’s support group) will help you sustain it. You’ll be okay & then you’ll be great. Trust me on that. Your older kids are what concerns me if you don’t get them out of that situation. They are being set-up/groomed to also being abused, & they will accept poor & toxic behaviour by future partners…because they witnessed that at home & they are comfortable & familiar with it. Time to bring out Mama Bear protecting her cubs!!!
You say you’re “socially awkward” but what does that mean? Is it only in his world filled with image management?
Do you feel awkward with your children’s teachers? With other mothers? Have you been totally isolated? Are you numbing yourself with drugs or alcohol?
Speak to your doctor or your pediatrician if you need a referral for mental health care. An individual therapist can help you with the decisions ahead. Add the lawyer and a domestic abuse caseworker to create your support team.
Do it for yourself and your children.
Great point about how perceptions of norms shift according to context and how even the most normal people can end up feeling (or even behaving) socially awkward while in the orbit of fucked up Teflon image managers.
When I was young and easily confused, I ended up feeling this way around FW’s family who were so reflexively image conscious that I’m sure they were barely aware that it was all fake authenticity and performative. The effect was quite nearly convincing except just that subtle extra degree of slick and polished and studied enough to make anyone actually authentic feel like a shambling mess in comparison without fully understanding why. Plus these people were really contemptuous towards and punishing of genuine vulnerability and would police against it, even viciously mocking strangers who were too gormless or open. They always seemed to boost themselves up at others’ expense.
What made me start seeing through it was learning over time that the whole freak show arose from the fact that these people– particularly my exMIL and exBIL– were stealthy star-fuckers trying to better their status. Aside from the fact that they drew their sense of superiority from putting others down, the reason they were so punitive towards anyone too gormless or natural is that they couldn’t afford to be around anyone who might blow the whole facade and give away the game by expressing, you know, a sincere opinion. That in itself suggests there could be a reason some fail to form deeper values or consistent principles– because that would only get in the way when they later had to mirror the values, opinions and principles of someone with more power that they happened to be sucking up to.
I started thinking about the bigger ramifications of this and ended up developing a kind of political theory (here I go again) based on this effect where what we currently call “narcissism” may really just be the side effect of status climbing in family dynamics– which would fit FW’s family perfectly and also fits a lot of other people I’ve seen the same traits in.
What got me thinking about it is that many social scientists are currently saying that narcissism is increasing in first world countries. If this were the case, there are some likely candidates as far as societal shifts that could at least partly explain a rise in narcissism. If I were to inexpertly sum it up, I’m starting to wonder if the progressive statistical drop in class mobility since 1980 (some argue that this started in 1971 when productivity went up while wages stalled following the end of the Bretton Woods gold standard– not an economist so I’m not sure) has been making less reflective and more reflexive parents raise those generations of kids to have egos artificially puffed up enough to bully their way through those increasingly closing entry points to a fancier class or higher economic strata– or simply not stopping their kids from being influenced by media and cultural cues to “puff up.”
In other words, based on a lingering but dwindling hope their children might transcend the class of their birth, parents were letting their kids become what was believed necessary to fight for survival by “gate crashing” to a higher position in the social hierarchy.
In a way, you could say parents were training/allowing their kids to “fake it till they make it.” The ruling class were obviously always fighting to maintain plebian faith in class divisions from time immemorial to keep the rabble down (Plato openly admitted to creating fake scientific theories to support this spellbinding effect). If you follow history, there have been cases of people leaping through rigid class divisions (humbly born Mary Villiers who helped her son George fuck his way to becoming the first Duke of Buckingham) but this wasn’t that frequent. At least from 1950 to whenever mobility declined in the US, the poor and middle class had reason to believe they could rise to a new class mostly through hard work. When that principle was no longer really true, more was needed for people to become gate-crashers and strata-jumpers. So, again, one potential strategy in that instance is to develop overweening arrogance with the price that these individuals would invariably end up using those closest to them as chew toys to sharpen their status climbing teeth and claws.
Here’s the thing as far as I see it: the chief way to artificially puff up is through comparison and put-downs of others one sees as inferior to oneself (my exMIL in a nutshell)– through bigotry in other words ( my exMIL is racist and misogynist). But here’s the other thing– only through bigotry can one create a moral hierarchy that allows a loophole or performs the “tablecloth trick” whereby the rich and powerful are somehow given passes for having shitty character or being criminals while the not-so-powerful are condemned for those things and more. This is because, while sucking up to the rich, fancy and powerful at an entry level, it’s always helpful and reduces friction and drag during one’s ascent to be a true believer in the latter’s superiority.
In other other words, a rise in narcissism may really be part of a “crisis cult” as well as the larval societal form of a dangerous rise in bigoted thinking patterns– a harbinger. There’s another argument to be made in there about the rise of the civil rights movement gaining traction from the rise in economic mobility starting in the 50s and how, conversely, eugenics developed in a period when traditional elites were trying to maintain class stasis in response to the rise in labor movements and socialism but this comment will end up being a novel.
I suspect that no one who hadn’t somehow deeply internalized a quasi Calvinist belief that the rich and powerful or famous and fancy actually are better, more worthy and more favored by God would encourage or let their kids develop toxic arrogance as a strategy to rise to that supposedly higher moral plane. Parents who wanted their kids to thrive and survive but who weren’t invested in some cult-like faith in class and power might raise children to consciously understand where the chinks in the gate exist and how to squeeze through them but wouldn’t encourage a selective, comparative and culty moral view based on class and would theoretically be less likely to encourage bigotry.
Anyway, that’s my three and a half cents. I’m sure my concept isn’t entirely original since I’ve seen various political analysts make analogies between individual narcissism and the increasing arrogance of institutions and corporations. I’ve also heard psychologists argue that being with a narcissist is like being inducted into a cult. But I’ve never heard anyone argue that belief in things like race supremacy/eugenics (existential cult of science) or the idea that religious authorities are chosen by God and morally transcendent and/ or the divine right of kings (religious cult) may be tied to narcissism.
Hi, I’m also a survivor of a closeted gay spouse.
I can’t seem to edit the comment. But please check out OurPath.org. This is a very complex situation and there’s a lot to unpack.
Re the above quote: your husband doesn’t want his pick of gorgeous women. He wants a woman he can manipulate.
I could write a book about how little credibility these men have in claiming to be “bi” and then seamlessly claiming it gives them license to hook up with as many M2M partners as they can manage, within their credit card spending limits. My ex-FW claimed he was “bi” (only after he’d been busted, of course). Apparently that meant he only had to be faithful to me with women, but he was allowed to cheat with men. It also meant I wasn’t allowed to cheat. It’s a win-win!
I have a question for Tracy, though.
We have quite a few Chump spouses on this site whose FWs were cheating with same sex partners. Now that same sex marriage is legal in all 50 states, if bisexuals are really allowed special rules, that would suggest we would be seeing Chumps here whose same-sex spouses are cheating with the opposite sex. And funny: we don’t see that.
To me, it means these men are a bunch of lying shits.
I am sorry to hear this about your marriage and how you feel and think of yourself. I will tell you this, your husband is probably looking to leave as he is having a “glow up.” The ex I was with did the same, thought it was for us and for her self-esteem, boy was I wrong. Leaving a douche will do wonders to your self-esteem. In my case, the douche did me a favor by leaving…she thought men fawned over her. I am almost 40 and the women my age and a bit older are very beautiful to me. As Hank Thomson sang, “The older the violin, the sweeter the music.”
Dear Fellow Chump:
I’m divorcing my husband, an autogynephilic transvestite who prefers men, so if being fooled by a secretly gay man makes you stupid, I am right there with you. My guess is that neither of us is stupid, neither of us is unattractive…but years of gaslighting and abuse can convince anyone of anything.
Sorry, but I don’t believe you when you say your life is pretty easy. In fact, you are paying a very heavy price living with someone who treats you terribly, is verbally abusive to you and your eldest children, and put your life and the lives of your unborn and nursing children at risk of death due to HIV, and has rejected you as a woman. This is soul-crushing. It is also soul-crushing for the children.
If you were OK with it you wouldn’t be here, writing this letter.
The advice from Tracy and the other chumps is spot on, so no need for me to repeat any of it. I wish I could give you a hug and commiserate with you; I suspect we have had a lot of the same experiences. I can only tell you that life is sweet, and you deserve sweetness in your life instead of the joyless existence of a beard, a domestic servant installed to protect the image of a man who does not give two shits about you or the children.
We are both going to get through this, Fellow Chump, and have better lives on the other side of it.
Though obviously gender preference-faking isn’t quite as demonic as pedophilia, I imagine that partnering with someone who only feigns sexual attraction to your particular gender has to have similarly insidious, ballpark effects on self esteem, sexual confidence and body image that being with a secret pedophile has on hoodwinked adults. People entrapped by closeted whatevers (probably the same for a gay person partnered with some sociopathic user who’s secretly bi or straight) often have distorted body image issues and those entrapped by secret pedophiles reportedly have a very dysmorphic sense of aging.
Come to think of it, I bet one of the subconscious signals that you’re with a pedo is probably the sudden onset of exaggerated fears or perceptions of aging in someone who previously didn’t worry about it that much. In fact, after working around so many obvious pedophiles in the media industry (where they often cluster), I would guess that any kind of close extended contact with a pedophile can probably trigger age dysmorphia in average people since pedophiles are the ultimate empathy-free, rocket-boosted objectifiers and can’t seem to help “leaking” constant ageistic remarks. Working around people like this started making me fear aging by age bloody 19, at least until I put two and two together and realized that the walking abortions I was stuck seeing five or six days a week with were triggering grossly distorted perceptions.
Why do closet gay men marry straight women? My ex said he thought I would change him. I inherited my good bone structure from paternal grandmother, my fierce independence from mom, and unfortunately, major depressive disorder from my dad. Ex waited for 37 years to come clean. He was “exploring” with men the entire marriage. He waited until I was at my most vulnerable, while I was being treated outpatient for depression episode, then left solo for vacation with his family. Obviously I was not able to “change” him. But this experience has changed me forever. Trust is hard now. Finances are a constant concern. A roller coaster mental healthwise. My belief in a nutshell, if it can be destroyed by the truth it deserves to be destroyed. NO MORE LIES! Bring on the truth no matter how painful it will be. I refuse to pretend ANYONE is better, cuter, smarter, or more worthy than me. My actions will reflect my values AND my worth going forward. Feelin’ a bit mighty at the moment. Thank you all for contributing to this blog, it has truly kept me afloat 3 years.
My ex claimed he’d always known he was “bi” (he was gay by my dictionary). As to why these men marry straight women? I don’t know why for all of them.
Mine didn’t “need” to be closeted for his career, or because of his family. But he was an unbelievably pretentious snob. Within the gay community at his age, bisexuals apparently have a level of status above gays, particularly if they have a trophy wife.
Based on what I’ve seen, the closeted people who marry straight spouses under false pretenses are simply narcissistic abusers driven by image management and duper’s delight, just like your average garden-variety cheater, only with somewhat higher stakes in keeping the hidden sexual basement a secret.
One more thing, fellow chump, and it’s this. On your way to getting this lying liar out of your life, swing by the salon and get your hair done, a mani-pedi and make an appointment for a 2 hour massage. Then go buy 10 gorgeous outfits and shoes, and a couple great purses. Give yourself the pampered treatment he lavishes on himself. You’ll have some nice outfits for court and also other more enjoyable activities in the new life you will have.
Ok, just one more thing, Fellow Chump. My husband announced he wanted a divorce right before I was to have two major surgeries. Disordered people like our husbands get a kick out of hurting us, and their timing is often designed to maximize the pain for us. Don’t be me. Please get out before he picks the worst possible time for you, to hurt you further.
He could leave you – – or he could accelerate the emotional abuse, cross the line into physical abuse and possibly even kill you. You are SO much better off without him in your home.
I got married too quickly after divorcing my first cheater, and the man I married was gay or bisexual. It doesn’t matter which, because he chose not to be honest with me about his sexuality. He married me so he could demonstrate to his military superiors that he was “NOT gay.” He married me as a beard. I married him because after six years with a cheater, I was desperate to prove that I was lovable, desperate to be loved. I thought Tom was the real deal, that he was as in love with me as I was with him. I didn’t know about the cheating until after I escaped his attempt to murder me. I wasn’t looking for other men, particularly not Father Steve.
Father Steve had repeatedly brought up in a social context (ah yes, straight from the Cheater Handbook: bring the Affair Partner home for dinner) that intimacy between two men was not cheating because there is no possibility for procreation. Since there is no possibility for procreation, it is not sex. And because it isn’t sex, it is not cheating. I thought that was a fucked up way to look at it, but because Father Steve was the priest, I presumed it was Catholic doctrine that we were discussing. It wasn’t. It was far closer to home than that.
There is nothing wrong with being gay or bisexual or trans or whatever God made you to be. The shame is with deceiving your spouse, with getting married under false pretenses, with fraud. And although the shame was all his, I wore it for years.
Your husband deceived you; he married you for fraudulent reasons. The shame is all his; not because he’s gay or bisexual but because he deceived you. You cannot have a “real marriage” when one partner is actively deceiving the other. Get yourself out of this mirage before things get worse, because they inevitably will. This isn’t your fault; you didn’t do anything wrong. This is your husband’s shame to wear.
Once you’re free of this mess, life will start getting better and you will look back and wish you had done it sooner. Good luck.
OMG, OMG. Get to a lawyer IMMEDIATELY and start making your plans, in secret. Don’t discuss anything further with him. NOTHING, not a peep. Start making your plans for divorce, because divorce is absolutely essential in your situation. For one thing he is gravely endangering yours and his health – you don’t want to risk HIV, monkey pox, ringworm and all the other things that unfortunately gay men have in higher numbers because men tend to be more promiscuous with each other. Get a thorough STD panel done immediately and DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HIM AGAIN EVER. It’s for your safety and the kids need a healthy mom.
Same sex cheating is still cheating. There is no mutuality here, no agreement, no understanding – it’s him doing what he wants, forcing it on you because of your vulnerability with the children and finances and basically bullying you into acceptance. This is NOT a marriage, it’s a hostage situation. You have to get out of this. That’s why virtually everyone here will tell you:
These are just a few things to get you started, Others will echo these sentiments or have other ideas/suggestions. Do not trust or believe anything this man has to say and don’t tell him ANYTHING. He is the enemy now, he’s willing to infect you, to fuck you over, to treat you with disrespect. As for how you feel about yourself, my father was a violent drunk who abused my mother for 30 fucking years. She took care of him in his last, lengthy illness and when he died, it took about 6-8 months or so but she was so worn out when he died, she was about 60 (he was 15 years older) and she look older than him. Within months, she looked 10 YEARS YOUNGER AND STARTED GETTING HER MENTAL AND PHYSICAL HEALTH BACK.
This is what will happen with you. This toxic man is draining your life force like a vampire and using you. He’s making you old and possibly sick before your time. You need to escape from here to SAVE YOUR OWN LIFE and to be the ONE SANE PARENT YOUR KIDS WILL NEED. Because it will never be him, he’s a piece of brightly wrapped garbage. Save yourself. Once you leave this situation you will be amazed at what you put up with, that you lived through this, that you ever accepted it, that you were so beat down psychologically and HOW MUCH BETTER YOU FEEL AND ACT AND HOW MUCH BETTER LIFE IS WITHOUT A TOXIC PERSON BEATING YOU DOWN CONSTANTLY DAY BY DAY.
You have a potentially bright future ahead of you, and if this man has money, YOU CAN GET SOME OF IT TO LIVE ON. That’s how the lawyer will help. You need an ally, you need a counselor, you need a DIVORCE LAWYER ASAP. There’s a reason lawyers are casually referred to as “counselors”. You need someone to advise you, someone to lean on, someone to get you through this. AND YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS – better and stronger and healthier than ever. You have to believe in yourself.
KEEP READING THIS BLOG AND GO BACK AND READ THE ARCHIVES. We might have different takes and I am somewhat strident and obnoxious, but we all want the best for you and there’s so much wisdom, knowledge, experience, and practical advice here. LEAN ON US!
Oh ..i did want to add a PS..my 2nd cheater “pestered me for sex ” unendingly for a reason…he became so demanding and entitled so that I literally recoiled from his touch. I felt like a vending machine. But the reason behind thus was so that I would Say STOP IT!! I have feelings, this feels awful to be ordered to bed!!! Then he could push back and say to all his OW but mostly to himself, that he HAD to find sex somewhere and that he was deprived at home. Its so plain now, his efforts to make sex into a task to initiate and complete with my consent was to deflect from his underground life. What else could he do. Every man in the world would agree that sex is a right now a consensus. Well that’s we he told me. He had RIGHTS.
Without my consent…coerced…
Without my consent …. raped
Sadly, I am working through my abused years with EMDR…and how I allowed it…to preserve what didn’t exist.
I would like to add that you said that he was verbally aggressive towards your older children. It will only be a matter of time before the younger ones get older, and he’s verbally aggressive towards them too.
Please consider leaving for the sake of your children, if not for yourself. Children don’t deserve to live in that kind of environment.
This is true, and he’s teaching them that this is the way to deal with people, to talk to people – possibly even to their Mom. He’s a bad influence on them. I’m also concerned about verbal aggression turning physical. With my father it was the other way around – he was physically…well…and verbally….violent first, until my uncles beat the crap out of him, and then he stopped the physical. But he never stopped being verbally aggressive and abusive. I still remember cruel things he said and did to us. Mama, don’t let this man do this to your kids. I know you’re feeling beaten down now, but that’s from living with him, he’s toxic and he’s draining you. When you are able to make the break, you will be amazed at how much better and stronger you feel and how capable you are. You are the capable mother of several children, and you are amazing and strong even if you can’t believe it right now!
His cheating and treatment of you is enough of a reason to leave, but it sounds like you’re so worn down that you’re struggling to believe that right now.
How about this, he is “aggressive with the older children.” That sounds like a mighty euphemism that he is emotionally abusive to your older kids. By staying, you are modeling for your kids its ok for them to be emotionally abused. Do you want them to feel that way? Seek out partners when they are older that treat them the way their dad treated them? Or attempt take their power back by abusing their future partners?
If you can’t leave for yourself, can you leave so your kids have a happier, healthier home life? (even if it’s in a smaller place, with less fancy things?)
Dear not stupid chump,
Experiencing a drop in income is stressful. However, experiencing domestic abuse is both excruciating and dangerous. It usually escalates. The fact that he hasn’t had any consequences for his behavior is the only thing stopping him from physically harming you.
This situation is as clear cut as it gets. He’s monstrous. Please listen to CL and take her advice.
Hi there OP. everyone here has chimed in with great advice and I hope you take the time to digest it all and start to get your ducks in a row.
A couple of things: I have campaigned, researched and worked in the field of Domestic Abuse and I know from my own experience as a little girl how absolutely toxic and damaging it is FOR THE CHILDREN. If you can’t muster the energy or mojo for yourself, I’ll bet my pension you can do it for your kids. Seriously, this shit will fuck them up for life (ask me how I know).
Secondly, the work thing. I am a great advocate for women having a job. Not necessarily a high flying career, but definitely to be working. Not necessarily when the kids are tiny but you can get a part time job when they go to school. Personally I was a teacher which was great when it came to holidays and we all had a lovely time. But you could be a carer, work in retail or whatever if you don’t have the qualifications. Why do sing the praises of work? Even in the happiest of marriages the husband can die or become incapacitated. In an unhappy marriage you have the possibility of supporting yourself and not put up with abuse. Work provides a social life. I have worked with some wonderful people, made lifelong friends with some colleagues and learnt a lit from all these interactions. Work UPSKILLS you. Work gives you confidence and self esteem. Work can be meaningful, satisfying and contributes to society (not all jobs but some). I also strongly believe that working sets a good example the children. I really respected my mum, who had to work from when I was six after she fled my horrifically abusive father. Traumatised, unskilled and a foreigner in my country she started as an industrial cleaner, eventually moving into clerical work which she loved. She really liked putting her stilettos on in the morning and going to the office! As a child I did not suffer one jot because my mother worked. I did suffer watching her getting physically battered by my father.
You have a hard road to walk right now, but your life will be immeasurably better in a year or two. Please take our advice.
100% agree with all this and I also know this from experience, both as a child of abuse and as an adult. The other thing that happens when you don’t work is that you only have a few social interactions that give you a sense of identity or bounce ideas or feelings off, and the main one here is YOUR HUSBAND who is constantly feeding you negative, destructive ideas about yourself. If you were working – at any kind of job – even 7/11 down the road as a start, it gets you up and out and meeting other people and engaging with them and having smiles and some positive feed back other than the bullshit he feeds you. It’s bad to become socially isolated – ask me how I know. It will be good for your self confidence and to get you back used to working again, and you can make long term plans. But I have to agree, unless you have infants or maybe toddlers who need care (personally I’d want to stay home for those) it’s good to do some kind of work to maintain your social skills, your confidence and maybe some practical skills – as well as some separate money of your own. It’s very draining to have to ask someone else for money all the time.
My ex-wife cheated on me with a woman (in addition to at least 4 men that I know about) but fought me tooth and nail that cheating with a woman “doesn’t count’ and that most guys would find that hot, not a betrayal. She even went so far as to get a female friend of hers, who was interstingly enough, cheating on her husband with multiple women (and men) to tell me why I should be ashamed of myself for considering woman on woman cheating and that “no one considers that cheating these days. Get with the times, loser.”
Whoa! The lengths they will go to when justifying themselves.
Not only IS it cheating, but from a disease standpoint it is the WORST form of cheating. HIV/AIDS are still out there. Go see a lawyer and gynecologist ASAP. Don’t tip your hand. Don’t argue or discuss with him any more about whether it is cheating. Do not share CL’s comments with him. Don’t waste your breath trying to convince him of anything. It doesn’t matter what he thinks or says.
Concern about your age and appearance are REASONS TO LEAVE, not reasons to stay. Better to not waste any more time! Better to rebuild your life now than at age 45 than at 50, 55, 60, 65…. before you look any older from the absolute years and the STRESS of your present situation. Also to consider, probably you are objectively better looking than you realize. Dollars to donuts your cheater has been unduly criticizing your appearance, putting you down to make himself feel better and to keep you from leaving. You will look better after you leave because you will feel relief from the stress and will be smiling. I don’t think anyone ever regrets leaving a cheater; they regret not leaving sooner.
Save as much of the money Mr. Closeted Cheater is giving you for this ‘comfortable’ life. That will help you with your goal of leaving him in the dust!
Save as much as you can. FWIW, my ex-husband was also in the closet. He had great charisma and had women falling at his feet. He was a master of acting and gaslighting me into gloom and doom. He thought he had a sure thing in keeping too scared to think for myself. But pride (sorry for the pun) goeth before a fall. My intense anger at him would not leave me alone. I lost weight and began fighting back. I went to an attorney who helped me get a great financial award from the divorce. He’s not so sure of himself — he’s gained weight and looks pretty awful.