One Off Cheaters versus Serial Cheaters?
Dear Chump Lady,
I was wondering about serial versus (presumably) one-off cheaters.
I know they both suck.
But it’s hard if your cheater only cheated (again, presumably… because they lie through their teeth to get one up on you) once. Versus the “bad guys” who cheated all the time.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, both types of cheaters suck — but I feel like Chump Lady could help clarify this for chumps like me.
When I was fresh out, it was like a huge head fuck — oh, he only cheated *ONCE*. It must have been my fault! They (cheater + shmoopie) truly do love each other! Etc.
Now I’m 2 years out and closer to meh every day.
I know you wrote a post on emotional affairs vs sexual ones, but maybe one on the serial vs one off cheaters would be great too.
Thank you,
99ProblemsButaCheaterAint1ofThem
Dear 99ProblemsButaCheaterAint1ofThem,
When I first started this blog, I did a post called “A Spectrum of Cheaters.” Now, five years later, I think the taxonomy of cheaters doesn’t really matter. What matters is YOU — your deal breakers and what you’re willing to tolerate.
Some people try to reconcile with serial cheaters, some people walk after the first lie. While I give you handy tools here to determine cheater remorse — is it real remorse or genuine imitation remorse? — your cheater’s depth of sorry doesn’t really matter either. (Although it could help secure a fair settlement.) It always comes back to — is this an acceptable relationship to YOU?
The same goes for emotional affairs. The only argument I make there is that (if it’s TRULY an EA… and it often is not), there’s less physical harm to the chump — your health isn’t being risked. No one is getting pregnant or getting someone else pregnant. And depending on where you are in discovery, you may stand a better chance of walking this thing back and reconciling. (Which is why so many chumps cling to the minimization of “It was just an emotional affair!” after discovery. And cheaters cling to the “just friends” cliche.)
But affairs aren’t just about sex. It’s the constellation of behaviors around the affair, which constitute abuse, that make chumps leave. The gaslighting, the rages, the theft of joint assets, the secret debts, the in-your-face disrespect. Sure, the guy is just having an “emotional affair,” but he Facebook messages Schoompie on his phone at your mother’s funeral? Fuck that shit.
That’s the kind of everyday devaluing and mindfuckery that sends chumps over the edge. THAT is what you must weigh when you decide to stay or go. Can I ever trust this person again? How much of my personal safety did this person risk to fuck strange? How could they endanger our children’s intact family? Now what I know what the cheater is capable of, how do I know this all isn’t an act? I was snowed before.
Can you do the mental gymnastics required for staying? And if you’re truly honest with yourself, is this a relationship worth preserving? Even without the cheating, is the relationship toxically lopsided? Does this person have your back? Do they bring out the best in you?
Now back to your situation.
When I was fresh out, it was like a huge head fuck — oh, he only cheated *ONCE*. It must have been my fault! They (cheater + shmoopie) truly do love each other!
Oh, the magic fuck defense. And what an almighty fuck it was. One fuck and they’re IN LOVE. It was JUST ONCE! But suddenly in that perfect fucky moment he knew she was the ONE!
Bullshit.
The affair probably went on for longer than you knew. Which brings us to — how do you define “just once”? Okay, it was ONE affair — but how many years did it go on? Was it just one sexual encounter? The old one-night stand excuse. (16 million page views, folks, hundreds of thousands of stories, I think I can count the one-night-stand affairs on one hand.)
If my blog numbers, and the Ashely Madison hack, have taught me anything, it’s that serial cheaters are way more common than we think. Cake is a preferred lifestyle for many. Most of the discourse around affairs is on the One Off Affair. The Wayward Who Strayed. When in fact cheaters like cake. They pursue cake, and having a main partner and a series of fuckbuddies is the actual normal with infidelity. If you want to believe the random sample of a blog with 16 million page views.
Which brings us back to you — odds are he wasn’t a one off cheater. And odds are he’s not going to find perfect bliss with Schmoopie. And guess what? It doesn’t matter. He destroyed your relationship and devalued you for the attentions of another woman. Because you’ve got self respect, that was NEVER going to be okay with you.
Quick untangling the skein of fuckupedness. Doesn’t matter what genus of species of cheater he was. Rock on with your new life.
Interrupting regularly scheduled programming with a request–if you haven’t already done so, please take a minute to NOMINATE CL for a Ted Talk. Tracy is willing to take one for the team if she is selected, and counter the damaging message of Esther Perel about infidelity with a Ted Talk.
Here’s the link: https://speaker-nominations.ted.com/
Info you need:
Tracy Schorn
info@chumplady.com
U.S.
Info about speaker: Author, Writer, Blogger about Infidelity and Divorce (Huffington Post articles, https://www.chumplady.com). Her blog has over 16 (!!) million page views of her blogsite.
What might the Ted Talk be about? [use your own words, but the effect of infidelity on partners, family; psychological traits that predict infidelity and/or serial cheating, etc.]
Under which of the following categories? Social Sciences
Has this person spoken publicly before? If so, where? Yes, presentation at the University of Texas at Austin, October 2014 & November 2015
Links to online video: [videocast] http://www.vidoyen.com/profiles/tracy-schorn
Please provide any links to articles or web pages about the speaker: [instead of just chumplady.com, pick one of your favorite HuffPo or archive posts so that we have a variety of webpages being sent to the Ted Talks nominating board]
It is so hurtful. My husband and I have been married for almost 3 years, been together for 4, and he abruptly mentions he’s been keeping secrets from his past from me (mind you we were just watching tv and he just says this randomly)! It would have never bothered me most likely but now he tells me this and I tell him it hurts me that he has no intention of disclosing them but most inform me he does and that he doesn’t care how it makes me feel. It makes you feel like you’re married to a stranger! I talked to a co-worker about it and they recommended i email EAGLESEYE.HACK at GMAIL dot COM, i did just that and he gave me real time access to my husband’s phone! Dear loard, i found out he has another kid outside our marriage. I felt like this was the worst thing that could happen to anyone.
Well, all thanks to the hacker, i was able to find what my dirty husband was hiding, if you’re in a similar situation please do contact the Eagle, he’s the very best i must say.
Done! I would love to see this happen.
Duly nominated. ????
Yes Tempest! Please keep posting this suggestion since some of us pop and out on an irregular basis.
Okay I just nominated CL! TY for the suggestion Tempest!
A day late but not a dollar short -done!
Done, I am so looking forward to Tracy eviscerating the likes of Esther Perel on TED!
Will do. Thanks for the info Tempest. This comes at a perfect time- exactly 6 months today, I connected the dots and confronted my stbx about the affair. He confessed and I kicked him out of the house right about now!
Out of the blue I reconnected with a friend who quit drinking about 7 years ago (who I’ve knew 24 years ago before I was married) and another friend I hadn’t spoken to in 4 years, until today- who’s husband quit drinking around 8 years ago and our daughters were buddies in preschool). My stbx was/is an alcoholic. More importantly he’s selfish and entitled no matter if he’s drinking or sober.
The universe works in strange ways. Ill continue to put the right vibes out there and attract good people in my life.
I’m good where I am now, look forward to tomorrow, and am totally excited about where I’ll be in another 6 months.
I’m going to celebrate my year anniversary discovering the affair and good riddance to that lying cheating piece of sh*t!
Happy–you’re mighty for kicking cheater out of the house post-haste. The first 6 months are the worst, but you’re on your way to crafting a new support system and new life.
Done. Hope Tracy gets to tell our story.
Done, done done! Thanks to Tempest’s prep work, it’s a quick task. Let’s go Chump Nation, and get our beloved Tracy a Ted Talk!
I tried, it’s rejecting me for some reason
Done. Thanks Tempest.
Me too – and TED allows for a little.potty mouth, too… just sayin’. 😉
Done too! Woot! Go Chump Lady/Tracy!
Done!
My hope is that Tracy’s message will reach even more millions! I love Ted talks!
Done! Would do it under several aliases if I could…I chose the Huffpost column ” 5 signs therapy with a cheater is not working”. Let’s call it personal experience…
I just said that she saved my life.
I did it yesterday, Tempest. You made it very easy- thank you. I visualize CN in the audience en masse for CL’s first TED talk!
Also done. Ditto comments. Great idea. Fingers crossed!
trying to submit her name, etc., but the page requires a telephone number. What to do???
Soldiering On – actually the phone number is an optional field. You should be able to submit leaving that field blank.
The first fields are for you the nominator so you leave your phone number. There is no phone number requirement for the nominee.
I tried that, but it wouldn’t let me move past that point. So, I lied. Heaven only knows who’ll answer that oddball phone number!!
Just did it! Tracy would be a great Ted talker!
Done. Thanks Tempest for supplying the info. The hardest part for me was finding which post I wanted to submit! I tell new chumps to go to the home page and scroll to the bottom. Reading all of these first will give you the foundation of what you need. I caught myself rereading them and was a good refresher course.
Done! WOW… found some classics in the Archives… took me back to my early Chump discovery days before I filed. Thank you CL and CN!
Me too ICanSee! I pasted my top four favorite posts on the petition to TED Talks. reading them took me back to D-Day. But it actually felt great to know I am strong now! It was a good flashback!
Done! Tracy would be amazing at a Ted Talk! I hope she gets it!!!
Done!!!! Thank you Tempest for helping make this very easy.
Done!! Absolutely
My pleasure. Done.
Thank you for posting this!! Every time I read one of her posts I say to myself, “When is she getting a Ted talk?”
Done! Thanks for the nomination guidance, Tempest. It really only takes a couple of minutes!
Chump reunion! I’m in.
Done. Excellent idea, can’t wait for the talk.
I would love to see the TED talk live! Charter a plane CN?
Done. I can’t wait to see this TED talk happen!!! Thanks for the easy to follow instructions, Tempest! (And thanks, Tracy, for entertaining the idea!)
Done! Fingers crossed!
I nominated Tracy for a TED talk. If it weren’t for her book, I’d be playing the “pick me” dance & ultimately hurting myself more. Thank you, Tracy, for your straight-forward, warts-and-all approach to cheaters. If it weren’t for you, this chump would still be doing the dance
I also nominated and I want to go watch The Talk.
What a fantastic idea! I submitted my nomination. Thanks Tempest!
Done Tempest!
Thanks for helping us with our homework to expedite our submissions.
I added “Historian” to her profile because I like Tracy’s analyses on the dynamics of infidelity and cheating and how they can be applied to anyone in any system trying to gain unfair advantage over another; about the common psycho-social backgrounds between all forms of abuse, from slavery to infidelity.
Among my favorite posts are:
https://www.chumplady.com/2017/09/ubt-esther-perels-happy-people-cheat/
https://www.chumplady.com/2016/08/dear-chump-lady-cheaters-work-script-2/
https://www.chumplady.com/2017/06/ubt-cheaters-grace/
As soon as I get home. I was thinking about this when I read Tracy’s post about that factory of bullshit, Esther Perel, who has a Ted talk
Done. Brilliant. I will be a walking, talking billboard for her TED talk if it happens. The Esther vs. Tracy publicity schism just shows that sin sells better than logic and morality.
I just submitted a nomination! It only takes a few minutes (especially due to Tempest providing the bulk of the needed information). This seriously has the potential of positively impacting the lives of MILLIONS of chumps who feel/felt as alone as we do/did. PLEASE DO THIS CN! (If the worldwide exposure of the infidelity epidemic with an alternate healthy pathway for chumps to rebuild their lives in lieu of simply succumbing to the RIC route isn’t enough to convince you to nominate CL, then at least think of the fun we will have tailgating at the event if we can’t get seats!)
Done. She already has her entertaining illustrations to use up on the screen. Her wealth of knowledge and warrior mindset would benefit so many more people if she did this. Everyone deserves freedom from a cheater!
Done!
It would be amazing to have a TED talk that represents US!!!
The ultimate validation of our reality.
I added the categories of law, spirituality and business – infidelity impacts so much.
Chump Nation,
PLEASE take the time to nominate Chum Lady ????????
Done. It’s hugely important to counteract the puerile excrement pouring out of Esther Perel’s mouth.
Excellent idea!
Done! GO CL!!!!
Consider this done! Great idea!
Yep …. I was told it was a one night stand. Only to quickly work out it was multi year and am almost certain he wasn’t the only one.
I would call BS on anyone who says that it was one night only, especially if they know each other – but it doesn’t matter anyway – they suck!!!
This was the tip of my iceberg as well.
After 18 years of lying about a particular person I had had suspicions about way back then,” STBX finally came “clean” and admitted to a fling with that person. BUT, he absolutely swore it was “only 1 time.”
What I found out by digging on my own:
— Innumerable APs over 20+ years of our dating and marriage
— Two kids named after him by 2 different APs WHILE he and I were married
— He purposefully introduced me to a number of the APs while I was oblivious to what was going on
— Daily, secretive use of porn/web cams, etc. and secret email accounts
Oh, that initial AP … who he was with “only 1 time” … in reality, it was a year-long affair during my 2nd pregnancy and after I gave birth.
Full truth:
I will never know. I no longer give a fuck. He is a really horrible excuse for a human.
These assholes really are too much! What is it with them wanting to introduce you to their AP mine did the same? Must be some sadistic pleasure in seeing the two “cakes ” together but only one knows about the other, it is sick!
I could have had d-day a lot earlier than I did if i had made more of an issue about him keep looking over at OW when we went for dinner at the restaurant they worked at together. I had my mum and DS with me and he was denying looking over at her. I feel so stupid for not making more out of it but I was a chump who believed he wouldn’t hurt me or our children. The OW came up to our table at the end asking if we have enjoyed our meal etc. Makes me want to be sick thinking about it. It’s truely disgusting behaviour they are horrible people.
Definitely a trait of the extra-disordered. It is nothing more than a power trip for him and a way for him to get extra kibbles from the AP by sharing a piece of that power with her (well, multiple “hers”).
How any person derives pleasure from degrading and humiliating an innocent and completely unknowing (about the situation) person is beyond me. And it is revolting.
It’s even MORE beyond me (and even more revolting) how two people can share this degradation and humiliation of the victim — and to view it as an individual ego boost as well as a boost to their “relationship.”
These assholes are Sick. Cruel. Demented. Horrifyingly immoral.
Mine did that too, w/OW #1. I don’t think he’d even fucked her yet at that point, but the relationship was already WAY beyond appropriate, and he had already been lying to me for quite a while about how involved he was w/her. I should have suspected; this man had very low social skills, and hardly any friends. Suddenly he was going out for beers ‘with the gang from work’ on Fridays, having lunches w/’work colleagues’, running at lunchtime with ‘a guy from work’.
Ah well, live and learn ….
Yes I got that too–it was only once and because we got drunk( but they partied it up in our hot tub first and fucked in my bed and left their mess all over the bedroom). Ya it went on for a year… and chumpy my STILL let him stay after he begged to. Cue the massive financial abuse( hundreds of thousands) and every other type of abuse. Where was my self respect? No where to be seen I’m afraid. 36 years married now divorced since June 15. I’m happy to keep telling my story to wake other chumps up. Don’t do what I did… please ((((hugs))))
You always draw the most punchable-looking cartoons, CL.
I agree, I always want to beat the shit out of the people in those cartoons.
Submitted, gladly.
Thank you. I strived for that douchey look.
It looks uncannily like my X.
I find that I can imagine their voices too!
They really do have a douchey look too!
Yeah, don’t trust them. I thought my ex had an “exit affair”. Then I contacted his first ex, who told me he’d cheated on her for their entire marriage, not just with other women, but also with prostitutes. I also found out a lot of other shit about him. And honestly, it all makes me scared to trust another person again.
I believe that we’d have saved a lot of grief talking to some of their exes
Haggar the Whoreables x-wife wanted to talk to me at the very beginning and made comments about how he had cheated on her. He explained away the accusations and turned it back on her cheating with the guy at the bowling alley.
After Dday I tried to talk to her about their daughter and my wanting to continue to be part of her life (after so many years) if that would be okay with mom. Initial response was that it wouldn’t be appropriate to talk to me unless it was something specific to the daughter. She informed me that she was just told that we split up. I responded that I just had found that out as well. Surprise to me.
Ankles won the turd. I should have talked to the X. I should have believed what he showed me when he lied about Ankles 6 months in. The time and money lost was huge and the emotional damage even bigger. I think he got off using his psychology degree as a way to torment me.
I wish I had listened to someone.
I contacted the first wife, too, and heard how he cheated on her multiple times. He always told me so many bad things about her…and I believed him.
I don’t have the evidence to support him cheating before he did the last time – but my gut KNOWS he did a few other times – he just didn’t get caught. He will never change. Thank God he’s not my problem anymore. Have fun, whore!
Mine insisted that the “Exit affair” was just the wrecking ball he needed to get out of the marriage. I talked to his EX wife also and found out he cheated on her the whole marriage, and that they were seeing each other still after we married on and off for 10 year of my 20 year marriage.
Trust that they suck
Yeah, Mr. Sparkles first wife cared enough about me after he left me for the OW to call and tell me that she kept fucking him throughout my marriage. She wanted me to know because she “respected me” and all that I had done for my stepchildren.
You can’t even respond to something like that. I just hung up.
That is creepy. First wife is an asshole.
First wife is a disordered kook-borderline,narcissist,take your pick…
Doesn’t that sound like the bullshit movie/Broadway play, Same Time, Next Year ? ???? Barf
It’s called ‘Same shit different year’
Yeah mine was looking like an exit affair, until I figured out that she spent the last 5-7 years of our marriage with this guy. If she was looking for the exit, then that was a mighty long time to find the door.
Love this. Mine was with the OW for 4 years before I found out and shoved his cheating behind out the door. He is still with the Ow, in fact moved her in with him, at his parents house no less. Coward!!
My fucktard cheater got his parents to PAY for his shag pad! They are from a family that believes their children never really grow up and own their own shitty mistakes. (Hes 46) the tales he told about me before he shot out the door were enough for everyone to feel sorry for him poor sad sausage. I had never heard of a smear campaign that you would actually systematically start framing your wife years before to make your exit palatable to people. I am still hearing things about myself that make me want to scream “that was him not me!!” But i know it will have the desired effect of me playing the part of the crazy bitter ex.
So my X had an “exit affair” with OW who was his secretary in another state 7 years ago. A few years ago she ended up moving to our new town and working under him again in a much higher position. But they only started their affair last year – the month X decided to walk away from his wife of 22 years and his children. “It’s just something that happened at the end of our marriage. It’s not something I planned.” Riiiiiiiiight.
They never planned it. Yet not once in my life has a woman ever slipped and landed on my penis. I’m still young though.
Lol, funny that!
DunChumpin bwahhahahahahaha!
Charlotte,
From what you say, you were burned pretty badly, I sympathize with you, and respect your feelings. But I would suggest that while you should definitely be scared to trust him again, don’t immediately apply that to others. If you want to be in a relationship with a dedicated, trustworthy, honest partner, those people are out there. You just have to look more carefully, fix your picker, etc.
As Mark Twain said: “We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it and stop there lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove lid again and that is well but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore.”
Hugs. Strength. Peace.
aeronaut
Mark Twain and his wisdom aside—hot stove lid, cold stove lid, who really needs to sit on a stove lid of any temperature ever again?
I’m with the cat, I’m done with ’em!
:^)
I love that Mark Twain quote! Valuable advice.
Yes, the “exit” affair is often the “I got caught and now my marriage is over so I’d better hang on tight to this most recent one” affair. A person who crosses this boundary, often does so repeatedly. Once you’ve compromised your principles, it gets easier and easier to justify crossing that line over and over.
I think there is a difference, and like CL, I don’t think that it really matters as far as the chump is concerned.
There are sociopathic, cynical shits out there who carry on multiple affairs behind their partners’ backs, who live a double life, and even revel in wonderful system of cake-eating they’ve worked out.
Then there are delusional and self-centered shits who convince themselves that for whatever reason, they’ve earned, or they need, or are otherwise entitled to this “one little dalliance,” or who convince themselves that they tides of destiny have fated them and their one true love to come together at a time that just happens to be a bit inconvenient (read: while they are still married to someone else).
These are not exactly the same sort of person.
But you know what? They’re both equally dangerous. The delusional ones maybe even more so. They’re the ones who are the most likely to blame YOU for their behavior, and while the abuse may not be stretched out over quite so long a period of time, it may be more severe.
And in the end, I think they tend to wind up in the same camp anyway. My ex had one affair that I can prove, and another that I heavily suspect. The two would have been going on simultaneously. What’s wonderfully ironic is that the way that I found out about her infidelity was through an angry e-mail another friend of hers sent to her after she discovered that the two of them (my ex and her friend) were both simultaneously seeing the same guy. So let’s recap. She’s having two affairs behind her husband’s back with a guy who is seeing another woman behind her back. She gets pissed off at him because she thought they were “exclusive” (Yes she used that word!). Talk about a skein of fuckupedness!
Who cares if she’s a psychopath or not. She’s dangerous. This is not a person anymore. This is a natural disaster. This is a tornado, and the only sane thing to do is get out of its path.
Mine was of the second variety – delusional and self-centered. And yes, very very dangerous. After admitting to and apologizing for two EAs (which for at least the second I don’t believe was just an EA), he denied that he ever cheated, stole money from our joint accounts, emotionally abused me and our two sons, refused to honor our religious marriage document that stated he owed me money if we ever divorce, and blamed EVERYTHING on me. The worst part is that this delusional man, who I strongly suspect actually believes himself when he lies, publicly pretends that he is a pious religious man and blogs life advice to many thousands of readers. He’s even done at least one Ted Talk and gets invited to speak all over the world. He speaks with a soft voice and displays modesty and humility in his mannerisms – but is really a heartless, cruel, and vindictive narcissist behind a carefully crafted facade. Very dangerous.
Aren’t you tempted to out him to his followers? Heck, my STBX even has this posted on his social media profile: “recovering narcissist.” As if one recovers from that; well, actually he claimed to be recover 10-20 times (every time he’s confessed to infidelity in 30+ yrs of marriage). He’s developed his own little online community of strangers who praise his intelligence and religious views. I am soooo tempted to add the facts of how he practices his religion – he’s such a fake. One of his last (supposedly pregnant) shmoopies called me to say she wasn’t a monster. I calmly replied that I hope she gets professional help. She was surprised I wasn’t screaming and yelling. I guess I try to take the high road; I was raised with integrity, class & manners. But it’s getting really hard to bite my tongue around his minions.
Chumped4TheLastTime –
YES!! I have so wanted to out him to his followers. But he is good. A lot of his followers would just think I’m the crazy/vindictive/scorned ex-wife. The odd thing is the more I talk to people we know at our kids’ school – y’know people who have actually met him face to face – the more I hear from them that they always thought something was strange about him. One lady yesterday told me “he was almost too nice… something about him always felt insincere.” I guess it’s hard to hide malignant narcissism in person, which is why they find most of their loyal followers online. Whatever, seems like a shallow existence to me.
I did tell him that I will go public with our religious document and the fact that he is refusing to honor it by telling everyone he can that I was the cheater and “broke the contract.” Ha, except the money is a dowery, so I owned it the moment I married him under religious law. That little bit of information online will hurt him with the pious wealthy donors to his religious center. Sometimes I think I am being a little vindictive, and then I remember that he promised that money to me in writing when we were married. Holding someone to their word isn’t vindictive, it’s a consequence of his bad behavior.
7o’C, pretty sure that’s the first variety! ????
SevenofCups,
“He speaks with a soft voice and displays modesty and humility in his mannerisms – but is really a heartless, cruel, and vindictive narcissist behind a carefully crafted facade.”
^^This is my Ex to a T. ^^ His impression management skills are very well crafted. Mine never admitted to physical sex but agreed that he cheated (as Tracy would say WTFever). Now he blames EVERYTHING on me. A bird could shit on his car and somehow that is my fault too.
I am blown away how I could believe/trust such a person. How I could fall for his superficial love for me and our family. How I could justify staying married to person who showed me repeatedly that he was selfish and we were in no way a “team”. Currently trying to come to terms with all that now.
The next time someone shows me who they really are, I will BELIEVE them. No more projecting my feelings onto anyone – not even my kids. Being a Chump really sucks.
One of the things that becomes apparent when you do any research is that those that go into public speaking are often very narcissistic. Many pastors, many CEOs, other business leaders and many, many politicians are extremely narcissistic. Mark Sanford’s wife said that she watched her husband become a different person when he started running for office. She said the syncophants came out of the woodwork and fed his narcissism until he was no longer recognizable. He believes his own shit. All of them do. Those of you married to these people do not put up with that shit so they dump you. Their behaviors are all focused on getting what they want but still being shiney and sparkly.
My exhole was a CEO. When I confronted him with the unfamiliar dirty women’s underwear I found on my closet floor, he claimed it was “just one time, with a woman he knew through work.” I had my suspicions about someone he worked with and told him so. He denied it up and down until I confronted him with undeniable evidence. He finally admitted that, yes, he had been having an affair with his VP of Human Resources for 6 months. She later called me to tell me it was more like a year and a half and that he told her she was the “love of his life.”
Then, 4 months after the divorce was final, he sent an email to “come clean, out of respect for me,” about the fact that in addition to the affair with the howorker (now wife) he was unfaithful seven other times, starting in year 4 of our 16 year marriage.
All of this was because I didn’t put out enough (or enthusiastically enough – I didn’t enjoy french kissing him because he never brushed his teeth, and that made him feel rejected), didn’t make him feel appreciated and adored. Because he felt he deserved to feel extra special every single moment of the day.
Never brushed his teeth? Ew. How can the other women stand it?
Actually, I can’t understand wanting to swallow semen either, but evidently plenty of other people do it and are fine with it. I still don’t think that is a good reason to feel unloved, cheat and leave, however. I gave him plenty of other options. I guess they just always want what they don’t have.
Yes! I don’t know how old you are but I’m 30. I don’t believe in swallowing either eventhough everyone else does it. I can get pretty kinky but I have never ever done it and I’m happy about it! Thank God I was saving it for down the road. Idk… 50th anniversary maybe? Lol! Maybe one day with the right guy when it feels right. Up until now it never did and for good reason!!!!! And it’s ok to like it I get it. It’s just not me not not not with this pos!
“A bird could shit in his car and somehow that is my fault too.” LOL!!!!
Boom, mcfiesty! I just spat my porridge!
Cheating is lying, and that was always a deal breaker for me. I could never respect a husband I didn’t trust.
While I could definitely have done without the emotional and financial abuse, and hate him for the continued attempts at mindfuckery and control over the kids, his cheating was the catalyst for me to finally walk away from a horrific, lonely life and rediscover the self worth I lostwhen I married him.
Yes, monsters, the lot of them.
I too struggle with comparing my cheater (who just had one short affair and ‘accidentally’ fell in love with his AP) and those who had numerous affairs or affairs lasting years. I don’t know if their relationship will last but I do know that I think he is pretty pathetic. He is only 28 so still young but he is acting as if he is a teenager again not an adult with 2 small children. I thought when you had kids you were supposed to grow up and put them 1st. Apparently I was wrong about this and I actually need to be more selfish and act like I don’t have any responsibilities. I am trusting he sucks more every day.
Yes, you are right that he sucks and probably always will. You might think things are bad now, with two small children, but if he’s anything like my STBX, he’ll be much more resentful of his kids once they are older, and develop enough critical thinking skills to not only steal his spotlight but actually challenge him like normal teenagers will. My shitbox, a shrink, in that situation directed every psychological weapon of mass destruction he could against them to beat them down and “win.” When I defended them from his abuse, and expected him to act like an adult role model instead of a selfish baby, he’d complain he was being “minimized”. He hated all 3 of the family therapists we wound up seeing for our daughter’s depression, who would tell him to sit down and shut up. Moral of this story: if you have a prima donna spouse who is jealous of the kids even when they’re small, leave NOW.
Thank you for this. Exactly what I needed to hear (see post above). I know I need to leave but am so scared. Please tell me more if you are willing.
Thanks
FKA Differently Chumped
Or maybe he can start porking hookers during the first pregnancy and get caught during a sting operation at the local motel by the police… Plot lines for a movie,I say. Such absurdity
Absolutely. My daughters flat out told STBX that they didn’t want to hear about Schmoopie, he could stuff that shit and she was not to be mentioned. They set out the boundaries and he responded by having a little tantrum about it and kept bringing her up in childish ways, referring to her as “that person I am not allowed to talk about” (in a snarky sing-song voice).
My daughters are old enough to tell him to go to hell –the older one is doing well at that but the younger (age 22) has always worshipped him and is finding it very hard to see the super-creep he has become. Him offering prescription drugs to one of her friends right in front of her (at a house party, trying to play the Cool Dad) helped add some clarity to what a total POS he is. It is all so horrifying and none of we three women can believe what has happened.
OMG – they are all so similar! X also tries to manipulate our kids into accepting the whore and ignores their boundaries and also refers to her as “that person” and “a person” also in that weird sing-song whine.
It’s so bizarre!
Kids are devastated and despise X now. Consequences…..????????????????????
Mine had a long period of calm when our daughters were young and were cute little bundles of Daddy-worshipping joy. It was when they got to about 8 and 10 years old that Daddy got bored with his life and stopped coming home for dinner. The little girls were not so easily attachable to his charm bracelet any longer and the daily grind of the elementary school pick ups and drop offs and daily homework checks and after school-this and participation in activities-that became just too much boredom for The Special One.
Within a few years, enter OW#1 and Daddy asked the now tween-aged girls if they would be OK with him moving out for a while. W the serious F? Yep. He did that. And he denied to me the whole time that OW#1 was anything more than just a friend. I should have left him when the truth came out but instead 9 years passed. I realized last night that it will be exactly 9 years to the day between my D-Day #1 and my official divorce decree.
So no–kids may fill some part of the kibble supply but as they grow up they stop being shiny and cute and new supply must be obtained. Lack of supply and middle aged ennui of The Special One is clearly the fault of the long-suffering wife appliance. Cue the long devalue process and ultimate discard of the family. He thinks he only amputated the wife appliance, but he is finding out he is losing his daughters, too.
The Special One is free to shag OW#2 and he is free to lose the relationship with his now-adult daughters. I know he will blame me for their disgust of his behaviors, he will never admit he owns any part of it. Whatevs.
Now I.C.,
You describe the little girls perfectly: “cute little bundles of daddy-worshipping joy”.
Mine are 3 and 5, probably the peak of this phenomenon. I have often thought, what will happen when they get older, and actually talk back?
I’ve already seen how he treats them when he’s annoyed or tired. He gets angry or waves them away like an annoying buzzing fly.
Please pray that I have the courage to leave him soon. I don’t trust him with them, however and the lawyer said he would most likely get them every other weekend.
FKA Differently Chumped
“So no–kids may fill some part of the kibble supply but as they grow up they stop being shiny and cute and new supply must be obtained.”
So true!! My Special One actually told me he wanted “a new wife and new children.” Wtf? At age 47? Apparently the four kids (now teens/tweens) we had over our 18 years of marriage no longer satisfied that kibble supply.
Now I.C.
All of this yes…Mr. Cheaterpants actually said- Nobody runs up to greet me anymore when I come home…waaaaah- What a fool! 4 kids, doing sports, working, doing homework and growing up like they were always supposed to is a porblem? They didn’t revolve around the Sparkly Turd like the old days. Nevermind that they all, as I did, still love and adore him and were way more attentive than the average wife and teenagers, he felt ENTITLED to more…Me, me, me. Do any teenagers have lives that revolve around parents? Did you not notice over 18 years that parenthood is not about you, but is about loving and serving and the joy comes from that- nurturing, building, and preparing them for adulthood in addition to taking care of yourself. Like marriage, there are good and bad day, trials and joys, vacations and sick days. Life. To be done together in commitment and fidelity. But, I digress…
Cheaters – entitled, selfish, attention whores- no matter where on the spectrum.
If you cheat on a spouse or partner you have vowed fidelity to, then I don’t need to know one more thing about you. You have shitty character and I don’t like you, or trust you or want to be in a relationship with you.
And your Special One is free to blameshift all he wants. Hope it backfires right between his eyes!
Me too, I keep looking for that karma bus! I will concentrate on the Living Well Revenge in the meantime but damn, I would love to hear he suffered even a fraction of the agony he has caused me.
‘Mr. Cheaterpants actually said- Nobody runs up to greet me anymore when I come home…waaaaah-‘
Rolling my eyes… They’re the type who want that but also complain that they don’t get a break when they come home and they just want to put their feet up and the kids want to play. Get a dog!
Look, we all love a bit of attention but no demands sometimes, it’s only human, but GROW UP!
Fucker should have gotten a golden retriever if the missed that ruuning-up-to-greet him thing. And hey, the dog would sniff his balls too…..oh, wait, I guess he has OW for that now instead.
“I thought when you had kids you were supposed to grow up and put them 1st. Apparently I was wrong about this ….”
No, you’re right and he’s wrong. I get you were being sarcastic, but I think this needs to be put out there.
More importantly, it tells you a lot about his values. Still interested in sharing a life with him?
Hugs. Strength. Peace.
aeronaut
Nope not one bit. He is off on a two week holiday with schmoopie. He has not asked to speak to DS or asked how either child is. I will be sending the last part of the divorce decree off in the next two days.
pregnant chump,
I know you are a very strong person.
These are your hardest times, being the loving, sane, present parent.
I tell you many times, you are a young me. Mine cheated, I did the pick me dance, he stayed, changed jobs, we moved to a different city, two tiny children.
The following years were very very difficult. No more cheating, ( I KNOW, that I know of), but the type of character that a cheater is, a person who will initially cheat, well other parts of their character are horrible.
It is always about them,
See Tempest’s previous Lucy in the little blue dress:
ME ME ME
BLAH BLAH BLAH
( she post this to me and she is spot on as usual).
I know at times I can go on and on Pregnant Chump, but I just so want better for you and for your son and daughter.
It will get better for you, my dear sweet lady.
You have strength, more each day.
I am just so sorry it is so difficult for you now.
Your cheater really is dirt in your rear view mirror.
YOU will overcome this. There will be brighter, happier days in your future!
YOU are mighty!
((((Many hugs to you ))), as you do your best to co parent with such a loser.
his very very sad sad loss.
Peacekeeper, your online persona name fits you perfectly. Thank you so much for the support you provide to your fellow chumps. You are awesome!
Pregnantchump, you really do have an especially sparkly little turd. And his schmoopie must be soooo super sparkly (er stupid) to believe the amount of shit he must say for her to be willing to be with him). I only wish I had left mine early on with I smelt his stinch. Nope I gave him another chance too because I had small children. And he started screwing around with our daughter’s coach. But he was a shit husband the years in between. So freaking high maintenance and self centered.
I feel like I only have my sanity this time around because of CL and CN.
Formerly posting as MJB
Dear twiceachump,
You and I so want a happy life for pregnant Chump and her two little ones.
We never wish our pain on anyone else. We feel for others.
We know it is very difficult for her right now, but sooner for her, than for you or me, there will be happiness and a special freedom because of the strength she faces bravely and with great determination.
One day, hopefully soon, the horrible pain and confusion will be gone.
Due to his non interest in the precious little ones pregnant chump will always be the present, sane, loving parent. As they grow older the children will draw further away from him, if they haven’t done that sooner.
twiceachump, I have followed many of your posts.
You are also a very strong woman.
Don’t feel bad that you gave him another chance. I am just so sorry that he blew it in such a terrible way.
His loss for sure.
You grow stronger every day and YOU are MIGHTY. Never forget that!
Xxxxx
Peacekeeper
“Thank you” for your very kind words to me.
I am going thru very worrisome medical times with my Grandchildren who recently lost their dear Father, ( his condition was hereditary and they have signs and symptoms), so your message to me was like a ray of sunshine.
CN is a family we cannot see, but we always feel them in our heart. Where it matters most!
Thank you kiwichump.
Hugs to you and your grandchildren Peacekeeper.
Only 28? He will repeat with this one. Just watch. Cheaters cannot sustain a mature, loving relationship where they are not the center of the universe and everything is fun all the time. Plus, they need that new adoration-type of sparkly love feeling but want to appear respectable – so, cake. It becomes a cycle, pathological even.
“I thought when you had kids you were supposed to grow up and put them 1st”
Hahahahahahahahahahaahah!
When we had children HE was upset that HE was no longer first! I should have run away then.
Mine was upset with me for not having more kids while being simultaneously upset that I gave the ones we had too much attention.
I guess that is because Schmoopie has more kids than we do but still manages to neglect them in favor of him. From his perspective, she has it right.
chumpinrecovery, this will go down as one of CN’s most insightful posts.
I think behind the one-time affair you have to take into consideration the background to the affair happening. A person doesn’t just get that “lucky” the first time out of the gate. The cheater has been laying the foundation to have an affair for quite a while before they find a willing partner and have dissociated themselves from their original partner. The cheater has tested the reception to an affair with multiple partners/targets until they find a willing host – emotional or physical.
I applaud Chump Lady for her efforts. The question should always be “is it acceptable to YOU?”. Her words and blog posts thrust me into action. She gave a voice to my misgivings – do you or can you trust your partner and do you want to be the marriage police from now on. That crap is exhausting and the mental abuse of being disrespected in my own home was too much for me to continue.
One affair or multiple isn’t where your mental energy should be expended. You and your mental/physical health are more important.
Bravo. I mean what are the odds? Their fuckbuddies are always the best at sex, best at loving, best at everything. It’s all so serendipitous. Somehow, magically, they knew this as soon as their eyes met and their genitals accidently made contact.
Heck, mine hunted hosts. Not kidding.
Exactly this PG!
It’s callled dating.
Thank you, PhysicalGal, for saying this. You are completely spot-on.
Oddly enough, I have visual proof of the grooming you speak of (“laying the groundwork”) that my ex-husband partook in. A while back, I had to hunt for an old photo of my son. My ex, right before he left with his computer, gave me an external hard-drive of all our old photos on it. As I went through the files of baby pictures, vacations, etc., I noticed a couple of things. First, the only pictures of work friends he kept were with women. And, secondly, they looked exactly alike. As in, they could be identical septuplets.
He had a type that he systematically groomed over the course of 25 years.
It cannot be stressed enough on this site: This behavior is pathological.
So glad it’s behind me now.
“I think behind the one-time affair you have to take into consideration the background to the affair happening. A person doesn’t just get that “lucky” the first time out of the gate. The cheater has been laying the foundation to have an affair for quite a while before they find a willing partner and have dissociated themselves from their original partner. The cheater has tested the reception to an affair with multiple partners/targets until they find a willing host – emotional or physical.”
^^^^^^^
Thank you, PhysicsGal. You described perfectly why his “one affair” hurt so badly. The laying of the foundation and the dissociation from our marriage finally made me realize that It. Just. Didn’t. Matter.
One woman or one hundred women…he was willing and he found someone who was willing. The marriage was over before I even knew it was in trouble. Whatever brand of cheater we had, they just suck!!
This is probably true of many cheaters, but I think my cheater occupies a different sub-group. He doesn’t flirt or look around, he’s good looking but doesn’t have many social skills or much self-confidence, but EVERY TIME a woman hits on him, he goes for it. I don’t think he even thinks twice, just can’t believe his own good luck!
It doesn’t matter who she is or what she looks like, doesn’t matter whether he’s already in a supposedly-committed, loving relationship, doesn’t matter what destruction that decision might cause not only to his partner and kids, but even at work, to his finances etc …. (Schmoopie #1 got fired shortly after their affair, supposedly because they weren’t satisfied w/her work (high quality there, guy!), but I think it was at least partly because she fucked a married boss – and the head of HR was the wife of the CEO.)
Adoring eyes and open legs, that’s all it takes. Eventually I realized that that applied to me, too, I hit on him ’cause I thought he was hot, and he quickly told me he and his long-time girlfriend had broken up a month or so previously (she was working in another city), which may not even have been true. And then he was able to turn me into a wife appliance. Blergh. Sigh.
Physics girl, you hit the nail on the head. I realized the the ex was fishing for years before ending up with the OW, in fact some people have come forward with some info showing he may have had at least 1 other affair, before the OW, with ….wait for it….the Ow’s identical twin. Yuk! Both were friends of ours so this was a betrayal of epic sorts….
“I think behind the one-time affair you have to take into consideration the background to the affair happening. A person doesn’t just get that “lucky” the first time out of the gate. The cheater has been laying the foundation to have an affair for quite a while before they find a willing partner and have dissociated themselves from their original partner. The cheater has tested the reception to an affair with multiple partners/targets until they find a willing host – emotional or physical.”
PG, this is absolutely on point. The disconnect happens *before* the affair, not after. It’s the giving of permission, the entitlement, which is all about character. The affair, whether it’s one or many, is an expression of that. Thanks for putting it so succinctly.
PhysicsGal – You are absolutely right about the cheater laying down the groundwork. Someone just doesn’t walk out of their home and land on sex. They have to lay the groundwork, and for men, they need to mentally and emotionally stimulate a woman before it can lead to sex. And this requires premeditation, intent, and daily choices. That’s why it’s never an accident.
There is NO luck in being a Chump,but there certainly is good fortune in this happening at a time when there is a CL, CN at your finger and heart tip!
PhysicsGal, YOU are mighty.
I am sorry this happened to you, but I applaud your strength in dealing with it!
“A person doesn’t just get that “lucky” the first time out of the gate. The cheater has been laying the foundation to have an affair for quite a while before they find a willing partner and have dissociated themselves from their original partner. The cheater has tested the reception to an affair with multiple partners/targets until they find a willing host – emotional or physical.”
Big 2×4 for me. I accepted long ago that KK’s first dalliance wasn’t simply the result of a chance meeting that led to attraction that led to curiosity that led to action, as she pathetically laid it out. I understand that there was some psychological groundwork being laid on her part, and/or there was some implicit encouragement from somewhere or someone — something she read, some comment from her cheater sister, etc.
But your statement here really hammers home how long the planning likely took place, and how much effort she put into finding the perfect person and situation from which to launch her satantic mindfucking rituals.
Agree absolutely that there was groundwork laid. Princess YogaPants made sure that she had separate financials from the family for more than a decade before she found Moneybags. When I questioned it she said that it was so that she was protected in case I threw her out. Being as I never imagined doing this, I went along to give her that safety blanket. She also had a separate group of friends that I was not included in which I was happy about because I didn’t like most of them.
Someone else mentioned about the cheater having other cheaters in the family. Absolutely in this case. A huge red flag should have been when suddenly the family members she despised became her “besties”.
I did try to get her brother who wreckonciled with his wife after he found out she had all the money in her control (yes true – he admits it) to encourage the Princess to drop her fantasy land and turn back but he egged her on instead 🙁 Knowing him, his sense of entitlement and seeing and hearing the layers upon layers of spackle that his wife has applied in giving him excuses I’m tempted to invite her over here. I’m positive that he will cheat again and actually expect that he has already.
I know positively (far too much) about Senor Moneybags. From what I’ve heard later there were a number of one-night-stands while she was on a “girls” vacation plus perhaps the men that she was friendly with early in our marriage who never seemed to visit when I was home.
I’m a pretty good hand with the spackling trowel it seems. I wonder if Senor Moneybags is also as good. He’s at least 10 years than her 50+ and from the little I know about him, he’s also a quiet sort of guy who probably has little patience for a free-spending, materialistic woman who tends to attract the attention of clingy, needy guys (something that always bothered me).
I used to ask myself the question that is the subject of this blog post fairly often. Yes – it doesn’t matter. Thanks Tracy! One more bit of the skein that I know not to care about. Pretty much the whole thing is just resembling something one of my cats might leave in the middle of the night during shedding season.
2x4s are free here- make use of as many as you need.
When you first discover the infidelity the shock is so traumatizing that you just want to believe anything to keep from experiencing the full-on rush of pain. Before I confronted my STBX I remember actually attempting to come up with viable excuses for her behavior in my mind. How f’d up is that? And her excuses (lies) turned out to be just as lame as the ones I conjured up. But in those initial days of discovery trauma your brain will almost accept anything, grasping at straws to avoid the pain and the unthinkable.
So true! There were so many things he told me that I knew in my bones weren’t true, but I was willing to go with them as long as he seemed willing to work things out and not break up our family. I consider myself a pretty smart cookie, but when I look back on that time I cringe at how intentionally stupid I was.
Mine was supposedly a one off too but chump lady is right. A) It probably wasn’t a one off and B) at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter. My ex’s affair went on for a few months before I found out so it wasn’t really just once-it was a long series of lies and exposing me to STDs. I struggled through wreckconciliation because I thought I “had” to give him a chance since he wasn’t a serial cheater. More lies the RIC sold me. At the end of the day cheating was a deal breaker for me. I knew I would never trust him again and I couldn’t be intimate with someone I couldn’t trust. Not truly intimate anyway.
Cheating is NEVER the chumps fault and people who tell you that it was are lying to themselves because they are either evil or they want to believe that the cloud of infidelity could never descend on their household. If one believes that another can do something awful to “make” their spouse cheat it goes without saying that one believes they can control what other people do. We at chump nation know better.
You are mighty! Rock on!
Everybody has a first time. That doesn’t mean there won’t be a second, third, etc. later. Just because he is a one time cheater now, that doesn’t mean he won’t be a serial cheater down the road. Do you want to be stuck with a serial cheater, or do you want to let Schmoopie deal with that?
When STBX had his emotional affair I thought I had dodged a bullet and that it was a wake up call for me to be a better wife. Eight years of pick me dancing later he had two physical affairs and left me for slut #2. He said that just before the first physical affair he was regretting not going physical with the first one. Now I realize that the emotional affair was still an affair. That is the one that put him in the mind set of “if Chumpinrecovery doesn’t please me, I have other options”. Eventually he came to feel he was entitled to those other options. Marriage vows? What at those?
As soon as they turn their attention away from you and give it to somebody else, they are devaluing you and your importance in their lives.
Mine was 8 yeas between his first EA and his first (that I know of) PA which was also his exit affair from our marriage. After the EA (who am I kidding, even before…) I didn’t trust him. I always was on guard. Always snooping through his email to see what I would find.. I couldn’t relax.. and with good reason as he proved himself yet again to be a lying cheat. Maybe he will convince himself that the next one is real and that he can be faithful, but I know that he is incapable of being faithful. If he couldn’t for me, when we had such a foundation of friendship and chemistry and partnership, with a child we made together – then he never will.
I think that’s what gets me too. It’s not like she is any better for him than I was. She is just new and was in the right place at the right time and willing to cross boundaries that neither one of them had any business crossing while still married to other people. We had a long history of supporting each other and working together. Then she waltzes in, sucks his dick a few times and suddenly it’s some magical, wonderful connection. Huh? Also, I remember how after several months he started to not like the EA partner so much anymore. I guess he forgot about that part when he was wishing it had gone physical years later.
What is hard for me is recognizing that he and Schmoopie might actually last . Based on recent conversations I get the impression that he is actually starting to get a clue and figure out that he is responsible for his own happiness and that relationships take work. He might be willing to put in the effort next time. If she is willing to do the same, they might make it. He doesn’t want to go through all of this again (he can’t stand people thinking poorly of him).
I worry that my douchebag ex and his whore will last, too. Logically, I don’t see how it can as she has three kids still at home (and two very young ones at 5 and 6) and the ex does NOT do well with small children. But I know for a fact that my ex does not thing long term. He lives in the moment. He told me, “I don’t think, I just do.”
For us, we need to focus on achieving “meh” so it won’t matter whether or not they stay together. All we need to realize is that it is NOT US in that relationship with the cheater. I remember being in the shower a few months ago and just sobbing that my ex was with this horrible woman and asking God, “Why? Why HER?” And in the midst of my grief, I heard a voice say, “Because it’s not YOU.” i.e., “I” am not the one who will have to endure more grief, more heartache, more pain. SHE will. God took me out of the relationship and AWAY from that toxic man who had destroyed my health, had put a wedge between me and my family, made me constantly on edge, was financially irresponsible, and so, so much more. “I” am the one who won here, not the whore.
Because it’s not you!!!
Made me cry immediately and realize my blessing!! THANK YOU THANk YOU THANK YOU for that sweet reminder!
Really needed to hear this today!
*virtual hug Keepin Calm
Because it’s not YOU.
When I read this, it literally took my breath away. I’ve been asking why her? For over a year now. THIS is the answer. I can’t thank you enough for that, Keepin Calm.
You are so very welcome, Rennyroo. Hugs!!!
This is so true Keeping Calm! I don’t want my STBX back at all. I actually feel nothing for him! But I don’t want him with this horrible psychotic girl!!!! I say because I don’t want her around our son (legally she can’t be for now), but the truth is I just don’t want her in his life at all. I hate that she thinks she won!!!! I know she lost bc she won a turd! But it kills me that they are together!!! Seriously the pain is awful!!!! Ugh!!!!!
This is the path to meh Keepin Calm. When you realize schmoopie lost by getting the cheater. It hurts like a MF’er, but once you start seeing this you are on the right path towards recovery.
I’ll add that every serial cheater throughout history could legitimately claim “it was just once” their first time. Every cheater takes their first ride on the cheater bus. Problem is, they almost always get back on. So you could beat yourself up for being unforgiving of “once,” or you could pay yourself on the back for getting the hell out of it before you got to twice. I vote for the latter.
I was a very trusting wife. I didnt look for stuff and it turns out he was really good at hiding it. I was so blind to it that I didnt even look until I got the “Im divorcing you because you are a bad wife” speech.
It took me 2 months to finally connect the dots that his desire to leave and his chumminess with Susan from work might have something to do with each other. I looked him in the face and said “you had sex with Susan ____” and watched for a break in his composure.
Not as much as a wince on his face. Which made me believe him…I believed the “we never had sex” thing for a while. After a few months I accepted that they probably did have sex but it was his first affair in 18 years and I had sunk costs, so I wanted to reconcile.
Fast forward through him moving away (prob lived with Susan but I dont know), returned, wreckonciled, lived miserably, he died and I found proof of deeper affair plus some gals pay stub and then whammo…his confidant told me “the first affairs were only about sex, it was that last one that got him, he thought he was in love”.
He hid his last affair well because he was well practiced…he ate cake all along. That explains “friends” who came to other events but never showed at his funeral.
Put me in the corner with the folks who believed in the “one off” for a long time but no longer do.
CLs example of texting OW at mothers funeral …
He was always a reluctant spouse who reacted to the simplest family expectation like his teeth were being pulled out, but he faked well enough to hide it until my mom was in a terrible car crash (she was drunk…she is a cluster B) and in neurotrauma ICU on a vert in a coma. He didnt bother to go to the hospital with me…in fact, I didnt even ask as I knew hearing his excuse for staying home would make me feel even worse. He sucked as a husband.
unicornomore,
I am so sorry for all your pain.
I can relate to the partner lack of support pain,
The not being there through the illness, death, visitation, funeral of Mother, then Father,
Worse is in feeling relieved that cheater did not attend as fear of how he would act or what he might say.
Makes the Chump a stronger person, but it sure hurts.
unicornomore, you have been through so much,
Wish I could give you big hugs in person.
My heart is with you wonderful lady!
Even if its a one-time affair, those are daily betrayals the cheater is causing towards us. Every day, they make a decision to have an affair with the other person, every day, they choose to lie to us, to betray vows or a commitment they made to us. How is that any better? It’s still daily deceit, lying, manipulation. How does that make it any easier than several affairs. It’s still incredibly abusive and traumatizing.
Yes exactly!!!!!
Exactly, Kellia. Thank you.
Kellia and Keepin Calm,
YES,
EXACTLY!
Serial cheating requires pathological lying, which I believe is an indicator of being a Sociopath. Pathological liars lie about everything. Even stupid shit.
Serial cheating vs ONS cheating are the same for me. Both require a lack of maturity, empathy and character. It’s impossible to build a strong relationship with someone like that.
Don’t try to rationalize one fuckbuddy vs a harem. These people suck to the core.
Thx for reminding that’s it’s rarely TRULY an EA. And that what really matters is what the chump finds acceptable.
I decided to divorce my wife not with NO SOLID EVIDENCE of a physical affair. She had simply refused to end her EA for six months. I deserve more than that. I’m supposed to be the priority, not her OM.
The day that I told her we were getting divorced, my wife admitted to being “physical” but emphasized that they hadn’t had sex.
And 1.5 years later, she finally “came clean” to her friends and family, admitting that she actually was fucking her OM the entire time. Neither I nor FreeVix were provided this mea culpa–only those who still believed her lies were deemed deserving of this “truth.”
Emotional connections happen. People who care about their spouse, marriage, and family recognize the threat of these connections and close them off so they can’t do further damage. If your spouse instead defends his/her need for this emotional connection, or otherwise claims that they are powerless to cut it off, then that’s grounds for divorce in my book.
Oh, and to anyone who left a spouse who was engaged in “just an EA,” GET AN STD TEST. ASAP.
Took me a long time to see the “truth” of his affair. When you spend 30+ years with someone thinking that they feel the same as you do but realize they never did is heartbreaking.
When I caught him with the whore I knew my mental & physical health was at stake.
He moved into her home but Karma hit… she died in an accident last week. How’s his life now??
Fuck him..
OMG wow – that is karma
Oh my gosh Kathleen. I follow you because our marriages are both long term 32 years. My cheater is living with his whore now too. She died. Karma.
My cheaters whore did not die. Geez that reads all wrong. I know you were married 34 years. But gosh you saw some Karma. just wow.
Livefortoday2,
Yes I follow you also..but did your cheaters whore die too?
I can’t believe that she died.. but a little part of me feels NOTHING. She was an evil, selfish person who knew he was married but didn’t care! I never believed in karma but now I think I do.
I hope your cheater gets what he deserves .. their sick & as much as it hurts.. were better off alone than being lied to , cheated on & disrespected.
Hugs to you ❤️
Nope. The whore is alive and well living with my X in a home he just purchased. She’s a real keeper. Gave up custody of one kid. Lost custody of two others – has to share custody now as that father did not approve of his daughters living with my X.
X has basically abandoned his former life and adult children. Hasn’t spoken to his siblings.
I am just saddened I wasted 32 years with this pretender.
I really did make his life happen. Now he is paired up with trash.
He thought he would just swap me out and everything would be the same.
Karma for now is. His life is nowhere the same.
Who knows? He is soulless. So probably does not bother him.
Onward.
Hugs to you also!
ONWARD.
This needs to be our battle cry.
You are mighty Kathleen. Truly!!!!
There is some loss of life for which I find great difficulty drumming up sympathy… This is one. Am I cold callous and calculating? No. I am certainly however no bleeding heart.
The wheels of natural justice/consequences are ever turning. No one escapes.
I’m sure you won’t take him back. Not because you are cold or callous but because natural consequences mean that you cannot.
Mandie101,
Your so correct in your post. I feel nothing in her death.I am not cold & calculating like you but I don’t want to be a hypocrite.. I feel nothing.
Wraith of God, Karma? I don’t know but my ex invited her into our life with no remorse or care of destroying me. As terrible as it sounds, he deserves the wrath of God too.
Thank you ..
Be strong, Kathleen. You may find a sad sausage at your door in the near future, seeking comfort for his loss. And cake.
Do NOT take him back.
JC,Keepcalm,ICanseeMehC..
Yes that is Wrath of God. When Icaught him at her home.. she verbally attacked me (both of them actually ) laughing, saying sexual things they did together., etc I felt humiliated, pain in my heart. But I kicked his ass out months later then divorced the narc. He now has no where to go except sleeping on his brothers couch.
I prayed they would get what they deserved.. guess she did!
I would NEVER take him back!!
I hate him.. 34 years with a cheating cold liar ????
Yes, do stay strong Kathleen. You hate him now for what he did to you but there is a very strong chance that he will come around , looking for a place of comfort, and you will be his first choice ( easy cake). It will be lies though, and it will be only until he can set up the next piece of cake. It isn’t you, it is how a cheater operates. It is only about their needs, never yours.
Thank you Ladies…..
God bless you ALL..❤️
If he circles back, buy him a small dog electric blanket/heat pad so he can be nice and warm on his brother’s couch. Karma indeed.
Oh Kathleen,
Your posts are shocking.
I send you many hugs.
Just believable, I don’t know what else to say.
Just “unbelievable”
Sorry for typo.
OMG. That is…wow.
Holy shit! That’s serious karma. Wrath of god type stuff.
It doesn’t matter whether it is a one-off affair or many. For me, the deal-breaker is when the loyalty shifts from you and the family you two have created together. Loyalty shift equals deal-breaker. If they have made a commitment to you, and then they feel free to just abandon that and look for something better, we no longer have a deal.
Nothing said “loyalty shift” to me like when he supposedly “ended” it with ow last year because we were going to work on our marriage, and I caught them together at her house. He said he felt bad for ruining her life (he’s her boss and she knew full well he was married with children), and he “had to let her down gently”. I told him sure, meanwhile, he threw me off a cliff without any warning, after 20 years and 3 kids! But SHE needs to be let down gently. (turns out they were just plotting how to keep going – after I forgave the @hole and going to MC for a while to fix things, I found out they are still together, and he thinks he’s “in love”). Douchebag.
Yes!!! Exactly this!!
My only regret is wasting my time trying to salvage my marriage. Had I known earlier that this is the MO of cheaters then it would have saved me financially and health wise. I personally don’t think it matters if it was a one off or a full blown long term affair. Once you find out they are cheating then kick them out and file! Reconciliation rarely, if ever, works.
I have realized that his affairs were not the problem, not even his decades long “light of his life” affair. Nope. The problem is that he is a Narcissist. No amount of effort on my part can cure that one!
Yes this!!!! I am starting to realize he is seriously sick and I can’t cure him! It’s painful but I’m happy I’m getting out!!!! Him and his AP are both cluster b’s. Good luck ????
One night stands? Rarely ever exist. Usually, it’s more of a tip-of-the-iceberg thing. If you know about one hookup, there are many, many more that you don’t know about.
Cheating feels good to the cheater. They love getting their ego stroked. They love getting their sexy-parts stroked. They love getting one-up on their imperfect spouse. It’s a win-win-win for them. So they don’t stop after the first time. They keep going. Gladly.
Its only now a couple of years out that his leaving line about having “contempt” for me makes sense reading these posts…in his reality he was getting away with all shades of covert abuse to me and over the years of me lining up to take it completely unwittingly of course he must have viewed me with contempt! !! For him getting away with it.! It is the same as duping delight which is why it is scary these empty souless turds are so close to psychopathic.
I never thought in a million years my ex husband was unfaithful to me. We were married for more than 20 years, and I now know, that for most of the duration of the marriage he was cheating. He did an excellent job of keeping me in the dark.
When I found out through a third party, it was far and away the most traumatic experience I have ever had. Like most chumps I suspect, it was almost impossible for me to function for several months as I came to terms with the shock and what was for me and our 3 young children beyond devastating.
He got his last schmoopie pregnant, begged her for a termination which she wouldn’t have and has since married her and who knows if they are happy or not (I am thinking not) He left the country and now has only occasional contact with the 3 children we had together. I could have never predicted this was to be my future, if you had asked me before it actually happened.
When we were still communicating – he told me he had been unfaithful ” a handful of times” but that must have been only the tip of the iceberg, and in the end it doesn’t really matter. The result is much the same for me. It was the end of what I thought I had (but clearly didn’t)
My rather vindictive comfort is that if he cheated on me then I am almost 100 percent he will just continue in the same way in his new marriage. I almost feel sorry for her. But then again – I don’t. If you play with fire be prepared to get burned. I guess I feel almost at meh now – 6 years on, rather a slow journey, and like a sudden tragic death, to be honest, it will always be with me. Like a scar on my soul.
When I was married to nowdeadcheater, I cried all the time…he was mean and distant and critical. The day I learned he was a serial cheater, I was past crying…I didnt even know that there was such a place, but Im there. I want to call it Meh, but I dont think it is actual Meh, its kinda preMeh.
Don’t feel sorry for her. She got exactly what she bargained for. And she’s probably cheating anyway.
I know someone who worked with the Traitor’s whore. She’s cheating and her nickname is the Whinging Whore (WhWh) around the hospital. I wish you could see the grin on my face.
“My rather vindictive comfort is that if he cheated on me then I am almost 100 percent he will just continue in the same way in his new marriage. I almost feel sorry for her. But then again – I don’t. If you play with fire be prepared to get burned. I guess I feel almost at meh now – 6 years on, rather a slow journey, and like a sudden tragic death, to be honest, it will always be with me. Like a scar on my soul.”
You said this so well. I’m pretty sure my ex was unfaithful to me before I found out about the last one – and the only reason I found out was because my daughter found naked pictures of the whore on her iPad which was still synced to her dad’s iPhone. If she hadn’t found them? I bet I’d have NO IDEA that he cheated. He was that good at keeping secrets and lies. Except…my gut instinct told me something was wrong. And it told me something was wrong several times during our marriage.
Your ex will cheat on his schmoopie just as mine will cheat on his (or she will cheat on him). I don’t feel sorry for her at all. She knew he was married, went after him with a vengeance, and now she got what she wanted: a hollow shell of a man with no capacity for love, a narcissist who puts himself above all others. She can have him.
CL has a great point, “what is acceptable to you”, but I would also like to point out something that took me a long time to get. None of his extracurricular behavior was acceptable to me, so I bitched, confronted, discussed, compromised, and allowed myself to be mind fucked. Like a frog in a pot on a slow boil (15 years to be exact), I didn’t realize my intention to “work it out” left me open minded to the mind fuck. Think Esther Perel inhabiting fuckwits mind here.
-fuckwits hours of porn viewing locked in the bedroom while I took care of three toddlers. Nope, not okay with me, so I confronted, listened, heard all about how it had nothing to do with me, was completely normal for men, I had the problem and my disgust was mine to fix… not his issue, it was my insecurities.
-finding emails set to random young 18 year old girls describing all the sexual things he wanted to do to her. Not okay with me… confronted, discussed and told ” it’s not cheating, it’s fantasy, stop trying to control his fantasy life, it’s abusive”.
… years of steady escalation of these behaviors, confrontations, and more mind fucking.
-finding emails indicating adult profiles on hook-up sites, confronting, church interventions, false remorse, feigning concern for my mental health, and progressive increases in technology allowing fuckwit to better hide and have mobile access to his side life.
finally, in the 12th year of marriage, the discovery of an affair with a stripper. By this point, who do you think had been conditioned to think the problem lay with them? Yep, me! Actually 2 weeks before discovery I walked into a therapists office and declared I thought I was crazy. Of course there wasn’t really time to delve into why I thought this, because my life and therapy turned marriage Counceling were consumed by his affair.
Bought into the RIC’s notion that it must have been something lacking in the marriage (aka… me), add the years of constant invalidation, insinuations that I was the problem, my issues and his behavior not being okay became a symptom of “my problems” that needed to be fixed.
4 years of therapy and lots of self help books later, I understood the abusive nature of the relationship. What I found is… if you stick around long enough, cheaters will cheat again…. and of course he did.
finding texts between him and an escort bargaining price, his hotel location and meeting in the bar before their scheduled hour of sex. Did I confront, debate and call him out? Nope, I printed that shit out and drove directly to my attorney’s office.
Here’s the thing… knowing something is not okay with you is great (none of his behavior was okay with me) but assuming that cheaters play by the same moral rules you do is where the mind fucking gets good. NORMAL people care about not hurting the ones they love, and the assumption that a cheater cares that their behavior is NOT okay with you, is where you open yourself up to the mind fuck. You care, you want to compromise, you want to understand… but they don’t! They want to do what they want to do! Trying to change that because you love them DOES NOT WORK!
is this an acceptable relationship to YOU? … and if not, don’t try to understand, compromise or work it out! The only thing to be had from trying is compromising your morals and opening yourself up to mind fucking!
I think the societal push to “be open minded” makes us believe that not even considering another persons perspective means that we are somehow dark ages behind “enlightenment” …. (aka Esther Perel).
I read a good article about open mindedness which I’ll post below so I don’t chance losing what I just wrote by switching screens on my phone.
So sorry Gotabrain, and your story demonstrates why we need CL to get a TED talk. There are so many forces besides the cheaters, pushing us to accept these behaviours and think we are the problem.
“Here’s the thing… knowing something is not okay with you is great (none of his behavior was okay with me) but assuming that cheaters play by the same moral rules you do is where the mind fucking gets good. NORMAL people care about not hurting the ones they love, and the assumption that a cheater cares that their behavior is NOT okay with you, is where you open yourself up to the mind fuck. You care, you want to compromise, you want to understand… but they don’t! They want to do what they want to do! Trying to change that because you love them DOES NOT WORK!”
^^^^Absolutely spot on. I ALWAYS assumed my ex played by the same moral rules as me – or at least, I wanted him to. He showed me again and again and AGAIN throughout out 18 years together that he most certainly was not.
Got-a-brain,
You are so correct. My path has been much the same except I haven’t left yet. He has always cheated and blamed me. Or refused to talk about it. Over and over and over. I honestly thought I had a responsibility to make my marriage work despite his horrible treatment of me. It was not until I found this CL and CN that I knew that divorce was actually a viable option. He has never even apologized really. Never volunteered an apology at least. He would only pretend remorse if I confront him. After finding out about this most recent long-term affair and 2 children produced from it (We have 7 together, 6 living children together) he admitted he has never “done right” by me but “he has always loved me”. Vomit. You spent the last 14 years cheating but you have always loved me? No, you loved that I forgave quickly and allowed you to abuse me. You loved the power of saying, yes I cheated but no I will talk about it. You loved the power of knowing something I did not know. You loved to sit around with your crazy OW (I have a restraining order against her and she has been convicted of menacing me) and laughing about how pitiful your wife is. But I am making plans, lining up my ducks and I will be mighty!
Cmh2015,
Once you step outside the mindfuck and you have time to get away from the constant critisim about how you drove the cheater to their behavior, your mind will clear up. Though I’ve found when something happens and I’m questioning my own behavior I have to debate “who’s critical voice is in my head” … his or mine. So many years of being told you are defective has a way of perpetuating second guessing yourself. You will second guess yourself, but is it your morals talking or fuckwits voice in your head. Here are a few key takeaways I live by when I’m second guessing… (because co-parenting fuckwits never stop critiquing and projecting onto you).
– Is my behavior/response an act of self-preservation, or am I seeking power over?
– Boundaries to protect yourself from abusive behavior are limits, not abuse. AKA … no contact is not the same as the silent treatment/stonewalling (which “IN” relationships can be seen as emotional abuse). Trust me, they will want to make you question your own behavior.
– Remember it’s no longer about “the relationship” (aka… we should be friends for the sake of the kids), it’s about your own sanity and self-preservation. Just the facts, minus the emotion.
– Just like they slapped you in the face “during” the relationship… with your feelings being your problem, their feelings and criticism are now their problem… they are no longer yours! The relationship is over and they don’t get a say in what you do or how you do it. According to fuckface, my letting the kids have a soda is akin to dumping poison over their meals. His opinion, his problem; that reasoning should sound familiar to him… but of course it doesn’t, because that only applies to everyone else.
Buckle-up… you are in for a long ride, but you are also mighty!
“Leave a cheater … Gain a life!”
What a horrible experience you had to go through. I hear you about the crazy-making…it’s one of the worst parts of the whole thing.
http://openmindcounseling.com/open-mind
Keep in mind I haven’t navigated the site, so I’m not sure what it’s peddling , but this individual article is pretty good.
I’ve said before in this blog, I found CL and the nation early on after Dday#2 (separated by years and different schmoopies). I initially didn’t trust that he sucked. I thought my cheater wasn’t like all those creepy, skanky types of cheater. Mine just got caught up in the excitement of a female giving him attention. He’s a super geeky nerd type. Late 40’s now. Bald. Fat. Walks with a limp. Has MD at the end of his name.
Our kids were 2 & 4 y.o. with he ditched us for his twice divorced, history of cheating ho worker. And we work at the same organization. Real nice shit sandwich to walk into everyday.
Now as teenagers, TeenageBarbieSchmoopie (OMG thank LAJ from the forums!) is our daughter’s 20’something assistant soccer coach. He was volunteer coaching at our kids high school. Real nice shit sandwich for the wife AND kids to bring that to their school and their sports.
Looking back I think about the hidden porn use throughout our 18 years of marriage, the strip clubs early on. And now with time and distance, 1 year divorced, I can clearly see he has sucked in so many ways. He is a bottomless pit of need, can’t go to the bathroom without asking someone how he should wipe his ass. He is a middle-aged, angry man that complains about everyone and everything in his life. I didn’t realize that was me too until I happened upon his texts with young schmoopie discussing how much I sucked as a wife.
Whatever way they have to justify betraying you and their life, that’s within them. Maybe they have only done it once and are sorry. But they have shown you who they are. They have some error in their coding that lets them continue down a path that is destructive. I do believe it’s a sense of entitlement on their part. And when things don’t work out with schmoopie, they feel entitled to their old life back.
Really the affair fog is not the ho high for them, it’s the fog you are in that they are that important and central to your life. You deserve better than that. Will you be without a marital partner the rest of your life? Maybe. But you don’t have one now. They don’t do reciprocal. They are takers. When it’s time for them to give, they don’t. Best to get as far away from that sinking Titanic ship before it sucks you under too.
So true!!!!! Sorry you went through this!!!! They all suck!!!!
‘Will you be without a marital partner the rest of your life? Maybe. But you don’t have one now. They don’t do reciprocal. They are takers.’
Brilliant!
Even if it’s a one night stand, AND they just got lucky, it still involved a series of choices:
decide to have lunch at the conference with strange
decide to sit next to strange in afternoon session
accidentally on purpose meet strange in bar, because strange said they might go there after
decide to have drink with strange
decide to have several drinks with strange in a group, so it’s all ok
rest of group decide to go to casino; you and strange decide to sit it out
decide to see strange to their room
decide to go in room for nightcap
etc etc etc
At any point, the cheater can decide to walk away. But they didn’t. They kept on choosing, and then had the gall to tell you it was an accident.
Omg, that’s like 90% of asshat’s encounters with co workers, clients and randos. The remaining were sex workers, AFFers, pornhub babes (literally underage teens). This is, however, the tip of the ice berg. I quit digging a while ago and the roaches still spill out of the woodwork.
Marital fidelity is a lot like virginity (or, like a hymen). Once it’s broken, it’s broken. You can’t undo having sex with someone.
I suspect one night stands do exist. Say a cheater decides to hook up with someone. Eventually they do. And it’s just flat out awful. Well, there you go, one night stand. But if the sex is good, and both parties get something out of it, they’ll try to repeat it. Once they do it the first time, there’s no stigma to overcome, they have already cheated once, and can be labeled as a cheater for life, so they might as well reap the ‘benefits’ of the cheating.
Would a chump say that if they only did it once, that was forgivable, but not a second time? Or maybe three times is forgivable, but not four. Where does one draw the line? We know the answer. Zero times is acceptable, because there’s nothing to forgive. Which brings us back to my first point. Either you’ve cheated, or you haven’t. The ‘EA’ adds a wrinkle to this, but it’s still not a physical affair (unless it is, of course).
In practice, the EA tends to be an excuse, along the same lines as ‘We were drunk and made a bad choice.’ That one usually is crap too, because enough alcohol to blur the lines of morality enough to cross them (for a decent person) is usually enough alcohol to render one incapable of performing well, if at all.
In general, I’m not one to cast an issue as being black and white. There are always nuances, variations, and complications that make a situation unique. But for a physical affair, it’s pretty clear cut. You did it, or you didn’t. A one night stand is clearly in the ‘did it’ category.
Hugs. Strength. Peace.
aeronaut
I don’t think the sex even has to be good in a ONS. It’s the titilation of predator and prey, I would guess. What a dopamine high!
Same for the EA. The rush of knowing that if your SO were next to you in the same room, the SO would not be happy with the mutual flirting.
It’s kind of like what I tell my kids, if your mom would be upset with your choice of behavior, that’s your indicator to not do it.
And to think I’ve h