The Dead-Eyed Stare

kim

So what about those dead-eyed stares, huh?

The other day a thread broke out on the blank look cheaters give you when you confront them with their lies.

What is that look? Condescension? Vacancy? Amusement? Are the manipulation wheels spinning so fast, the facial expressions are set in neutral? What’s going on in there?

I remember unearthing some ghastly nugget of truth and confronting my ex with “So, are you a pathological liar, or what?” and he just smirked. Didn’t deny it. Didn’t affirm it. It was just sort of “Yeah, and so?”

Now, in his case, that wasn’t an ordinary response. The mindfuck channels usually flipped between the rage-charm-self-pity stations. He didn’t pause long before going on the offensive with the mindfuckery. And yet, every now and then Mr. Dead Eyes would appear.

If eyes are the windows to the soul, I have to conclude that sociopaths are just empty elevator shafts. Not much there except a steep drop into Hell.

(Shudder) These people exist.

So, what’s your theory?

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ChumpFromF
ChumpFromF
8 years ago

Yay it’s only 02:38PM and there is already a new post of CL !

Iseeclearlynow
Iseeclearlynow
8 years ago
Reply to  ChumpFromF

My theory is that pathological people, whether it is megalomaniac narcissists who think their personal experiences are the same as everyone else who has a similar experience, or who just think their point of view is the only right one, are people who attract other pathological people.

One very strong hallmark of a Pathological type is that they see themselves as never doing anything wrong. They see themselves as perfect and faultless. They refuse to believe that they have difficult relationships because they may be doing something unfair or wrong. They always see themselves as victims, and they obsess about their victim hood endlessly because no one wants to spend any time with them and they have nothing else to do with their time.

If their kids hate them, they see it as something wrong with their kid. If they have no friends, it’s because people are weird, not them.

Einstein
Einstein
8 years ago
Reply to  Iseeclearlynow

I can certainly relate to that. My experience exactly.

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
8 years ago
Reply to  Iseeclearlynow

Are you lost? Poor little troll. This isn’t a reconciliation website or can’t you read?

Scan, discard, select, move on

violet
violet
8 years ago
Reply to  Iseeclearlynow

Not sure what this post has to do with the subject at hand. I certainly refuse to wear the “victim” mantel and I have a full personal and professional life, as well as an excellent relationship with my kids. I have always viewed life as a joyful experience, even during the toughest of times. Watching my marriage publicly implode was the most difficult thing I have ever experienced, but I am told by my many friends that I handled the situation with dignity and grace. So if there was any pathology, it came from a Jesus cheater, who saw a pot of gold at the end of the destruction of my marriage. Fortunately, I was able to protect myself and my family from the intended financial rip-off. Many here are not so lucky.

The dead eye stare? That’s the cheater’s way of closing the curtain. After all, the only feelings that matter are theirs, right? I will never forget baring my soul to X and looking up to that stare. Chilling, actually.

Lyn
Lyn
8 years ago
Reply to  violet

I had that same experience, Violet. Sobbing and bearing my soul and he just stared at me with cold eyes. They were vacant. Nothing behind them. I’d always loved the color of his eyes, and had memories of looking into them at our wedding, and after the birth of our first child. The eyes I saw looking at me after D-day were alien. Soulless. Unnerving.

As for a theory, I think my husband just got to a point where he “switched off” his emotions. He spent weeks sobbing and crying, then made a decision to leave and turned to stone. Whenever one of us would express how much he was hurting our family he was respond with a robot-like “I understand.” He said it over and over as an answer to everything. I finally stopped trying to communicate with him, I couldn’t take it any more. He seemed like a man possessed by an alien spirit. I didn’t recognize him anymore.

Martha
Martha
8 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

I know this is an older post, but I just needed to comment on what you said about your ex saying robotically, “I understand.” My stbxh did the same thing. Kids and I were all crying and he was so cold. It scared me that he just completely turned into another person.

Erbrown83@gmail.com
Erbrown83@gmail.com
8 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

THIS is exactly what I think. He just turned off. I think it was the only way he could stomach being in the same house with his family he was knowingly harming and destroying for some skank, was to completely just shut down. Anytime I made any kind of points as to the destruction he was causing so many people his response was a cold emotionless “I’m sorry” or “I get it”. I think the vacant stare is their auto response defense mechanism to avoid any of the bad feeling they might have to experience for all the horrible things they done! Because don’t you know- it’s all about them finally being HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY! … assholes!

One Step at a Time
One Step at a Time
8 years ago

^^^^Ditto^^^^

nina
nina
8 years ago

My black-eyed stare came just a couple of weeks before d-day. It was New Year’s Eve. I was getting a horrible vibe all night. He was his usual, all-about-impressing-strangers, throwing money around, and doing things that I viewed as socially awkward but he thought people LOVED him. And then, out of nowhere, he just looked up and there it was. I couldn’t explain the look then but I felt such a strong impulse to leave and go home. But, I didn’t, because I didn’t want to create a scene and I knew he’d come after me and all I wanted was to be away from him. That night when we got home, my new-ish, rescue dog had slept on our bed and maybe had an accident? Anyway, I had to strip the bed and we had to sleep in another room. All I know was that after laying in the same bed with him for a few minutes, I realized I still had such a eery, creepy feeling from him that I got up and went back to the stripped bed to sleep rather than staying with him for one more minute.

Miss Leah
Miss Leah
8 years ago

They must clone them in a freak factory because I could have written the above post word for word.

ringinonmyownbell
ringinonmyownbell
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Hopefully something more fun than seeing lame-o dad.

The Second Lady
The Second Lady
8 years ago

It’s simply because there’s just no ‘there’ there. I just didn’t realize it at the time, but it becomes clearer and clearer the longer we’re apart.

Einstein
Einstein
8 years ago

There’s certainly a lack of emotion, feeling, attachment, so that when caught they just don’t panic. Why? It was nothing short of the silent “so what?”. Other than that, they are always two steps ahead of the situation, I think the blank stare is controlled — they are practiced at never giving anything away. They know they can decide later how to handle it.

SphinxMoth
SphinxMoth
8 years ago

Kind of scary. I can’t imagine the energy expended doing it.

https://people.ok.ubc.ca/stporter/Publications_files/Would%20I%20lie%20to%20you%3F.pdf

I did have a conversation with XH about this “1000 yard stare” when confronted with something, and directly asked if this was what he was doing, emulating some type of hero thing. He got very uncomfortable. I told him that it doesn’t matter now, and he can tell me the truth or whatever, because I’m not a “target” anymore.

He said, “I don’t scramble well.” Then he changed the subject. So, at least with him, it’s scrambling for an answer. The lies are legion and it’s impossible to remember them all–so best that you just don’t remember anything that they say in order to keep going in a relationship with them. I mean, why would you put every word under a microscope from the very beginning with someone…you don’t. They slide until they get sloppy.

He also said one time, after I had an amazingly successful round of 20 questions with him that I “should not listen to his words when he’s flustered or scrambling”—I took this later to mean that they spew anything and everything at that given moment to get you off their trail.

I had confronted him with something so stupid once…the origin of a pie. The pies had begun appearing with odd regularity one summer…and I couldn’t figure out why he all of a sudden wanted to purchase pies when he was actually a fairly good baker.

Where did you purchase this amazing coconut pie? Blank stare. Like when a little kid is peeing in his pants or his diaper? That faraway look?

Well, he mumbled something incomprehensible and shuffled off. I thought it so completely odd that I pursued it. He said that he couldn’t quite remember where, although the pies were showing up every couple of weeks.

I dropped it eventually, because I knew something was just not right. I also stopped eating any of the pies that showed up. I don’t know why.

What my gut was trying to tell me and what he had failed to scramble out of? The pies were being made by his AP and he was feeding them to his wife and children.

Mehbound
Mehbound
8 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

Bringing home pie for all to enjoy, reminds me my ex brought home music that his ho worker burned and DVDs for our kids to enjoy. Not once did I question if there was anything going on between the two of them. The idea of cheating was not on my radar plus she was married, so I just thought what a nice gesture.

Along the lines of the dead stare, I can relate 100%. After dday, I observed his eyes were sunken, hollow, vacant and actually chilling. His demeanor had been for the last year or so a “broken man”. Questions I asked of him was always “I don’t know”. He shuffled when he walked, stooped over and pulled his hair in a nervous kind of way. The man I married 27 yrs earlier had his mask on securely. This shell of a man helped steer me to get away and divorce. I so believe he is stuck on the pity channel and good luck with the next victim that wants to save him.

As usual CL coins it spot on in words I didn’t come up with at the time. An empty elevator shaft, and that drop down to hell I can almost visualize.

sodone
sodone
8 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

Omg, sphinx, your pie story reminds me of when x was still in the house, and he was trying some sort of false wreckonciliation, he started making me coffee. Cooking meals. Had not done this for 25 years, totally out of character. It got to the point that i only ate at fast food cause the fact that he was doing this creeped me out.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

Sphinx, your link was an interesting read. The part that hit closest to home for me was the psychopath not being able to fully depict the false emotional expression with convincing accuracy.
The therapist Gollum & I both saw, now only I see, mentioned that he knew early on he was the one who was lying (mainly projecting) during our individual sessions because his affect was all off. He also said he delivered what should be emotionally charged stories with very little facial expressions. Essentially, he would describe a story of me being terribly cruel, negative, aggressive (when in reality the roles were reversed, he was describing his own behavior) but his face would remain nearly blank; he’d maintain his “unthreatening, everyone’s best buddy” face and an unassuming sweet smile. When pressed further with questions to describe how he felt during these interactions with me he would stare blankly or say “I don’t know” because he genuinely could not assimilate a legitimate, believable fake response. He really had no idea how it might feel to be treated so poorly, as he was the perpetrator and not the one actually experiencing the abuse. So he struggled to define his feelings because essentially, he can’t fake empathy.

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

OMG, that made me feel ill for you, I think I’d be sick knowing I ate them. I’m so sorry you went through this. 🙁 I don’t know how they can live with themselves.

goodbye dr ego
goodbye dr ego
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

It’s actually sadistic.That is one utterly disordered person to do that.to watch his own flesh and blood nourish themselves on the toxic shit that he had coming to them.vile man

Chumpish
Chumpish
8 years ago
Reply to  goodbye dr ego

CL wrote this a while back and it’s exactly what I thought of after reading your post SphinxMoth: “…the silent, contemptuous ‘fuck you.’ I Know Something You Don’t Know… and that secret delights me. Because when I think of that secret it degrades you.” Right? I don’t think I’ll ever look at pie the same way.

ChumpB
ChumpB
8 years ago
Reply to  goodbye dr ego

So shocking SphinxMoth, absolutely sadistic.

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago

My STBX did that stare when I was crying, no response from him at all, just that stare, I couldn’t believe how cold he is. 🙁

Chumpish
Chumpish
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

I was tearing up as I related, to the STBX, my son’s sweet conversation the day before with our neighbor, who was ill. We’d just rec’d the news that he had died that morning. As I started to cry, he barked at me “What the fuck are you crying about!?” I felt like I’d been slapped. In his case, I think it was revenge. Best served cold. Kicking your wife when she’s down is just a good opportunity, especially when she questions your online activities. Hateful.

inthedark16
inthedark16
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

Same here! Just gives me a cold stare, like I’m from another planet. I think he’s incapable of any empathy….and like many others here on CL I seem to have a selectively deaf WH. Never seems to hear my questions first time, just stalling for time, trying to remember how he answered that question last time it was asked…….you don’t need to try and remember how to answer a question if it’s the truth!!

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

Mine too, hates it when I get emotional

chump-ness
chump-ness
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

Kate50 so very ^^this^^! When my stbx actually got to the “I’m leaving our marriage for my 24yr old ho-worker” statement, a week after dday, I think I actually fainted. As I was lying on the floor, I could feel that cold stare and he just annouced “ok, well I called your friend, I’m going now” and walk out. Wtf. Do these people have no souls?

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago
Reply to  chump-ness

I never wanted to bring this up, but I was such a broken woman after finding out what STBX was doing that I attempted to take my own life one night with some pills. I regret that so much, I was drinking at the time (liquid courage) and since I did that, I haven’t touched any alcohol after that night coming up 9 months July 27. I was alone at home when this happened and STBX was up north working (AP lives where he works) and he didn’t come home till 5 days after that happened, and even then he only stayed for 2 days and left again back to work and left me alone. So yes, they don’t care at all. This man was my husband for 25 yrs of my life, we raised 3 children together. I’m moving in the process of moving right now, 200 miles away, movers are coming Monday. I’ll never look back!

Mehphista
Mehphista
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

You aren’t alone in that, Kate 50.

I got 8000 miles away. Awaiting sale of common property, then off I toddle to the land of Meh.

I’ll buy you a hot cocoa when we get there.

x-Meh.

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago
Reply to  Mehphista

Thanks Mehphista, I’d enjoy the cocoa with you! You know, I think about all the terrible things I’ve been through over the last 8 months since D-Day and now I’m starting to think about some of the good things that happened to me too at times (silver linings). I found out who are my true friends/supporters for one, I quit drinking which I know deep down I had a problem with, but I think it was my crutch over the last 4 years when my marriage felt so wrong, I learned what was wrong, it was STBX’s affair. I hit my bottom with the drinking that terrible night, but now I’m in recovery, going to AA and meeting the most honest of people there, I’m making real friends that help me so much. I’m meeting new friends here at CN who are real honest about life too as we share our stories with each other trying to recover from the pain we’ve all endured in our marriages.

The biggest thing that’s changed for me is I’m building a strong relationship with God today, he’s filling up that void I had in my life that neither alcohol or STBX or nothing else could fill for me before. I’ve been working the 12 steps, the first one was admitting I was an ALCOHOLIC. When I accepted that I was ready to do some real work on myself. One day recently, my sponsor told me to remove the word alcohol from the first step and replace it with my STBX’s name. I did that and read it again along with steps 2 and 3 that follow. It was a powerful experience for me that really helped and gave me the courage to follow through with leaving my STBX.

Here’s the 3 steps that had the change for me:

1.) We admitted we were powerless over STBX (name), that our lives had become unmanageable.

2.) Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. (That was God for me.)

3.) Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him. (I believe my gut instincts, that nagging to leave STBX comes from God, he was there for years telling me something was wrong with him, he was being unfaithful to me. I just didn’t listen to him and drowned him out with alcohol.)

I am listening today and since I made the decision to leave, absolutely everything is falling into place with ease and feels so right, I’m now convinced that God is guiding me in my recovery from both my alcoholism and my toxic relationship with STBX. With both of those removed from my life, I’ll be on my way to living a happy fulfilling life that God has planned out for me. Take care XO

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

What a beautiful story! I for one, am very proud of you!
I drank too much, for the 3 1/2 yrs I was figuring out if I should stay, or go, and X was romancing the neighbor (and acting like it was no big thing, just a friend, just a party, Blah Blah). It was a trip through Hell. And, when they told me 2 yrs later, that I had a large patch of calcifications in my breast, I just knew – that’s when it happened, because the rest of my life I was living mostly happy and healthy. My belief, anyway. I am now post lumpectomy and cancer-free.
You keep on your good path, best wishes to you Kate50!

Nord
Nord
8 years ago
Reply to  chump-ness

I sort of collapsed the morning after the huge blowout and he walked out of the house and left the kids to deal with me. I kicked him out after that.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

Kate50, no real bonding abilities, that’s why he did it when you were emotional. It made him uncomfortable because he didn’t understand it and if he doesn’t understand it then it must be insincere. He had no empathy so he couldn’t connect with you…or any other living creature, for that matter. They’re incapable of connecting.

It’s ironic to me, though, that they think we are too emotional/dramatic/whatever….do they not realize the anger/rage/hatred/fear/self loathing they feel are ALSO emotions?

lisa
lisa
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

this made me laugh so hard…not because narcs are funny…because it is so perfect!
I call it pink housing…

I was pourjng my heart out to ex narc…and he had that stare on the whole time…and then? outta his mouth….”Look at that pink house!”

Never mind I was actually crying…just…look at that pink house…

WOW..FUCKING NUT JOB!

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

You know my Mother and I were discussing this, and something occurred to me, he never pets our animals, our golden retriever who craves affection, he pushes him away or tells him to go when Charlie comes up to him. We also have two cats, they are afraid of him, they run if he even goes near them. This is something I never noticed until these days, but it always happened. Mom told me from now on in my life, trust my pets reactions to people and watch the reaction of people towards my pets. Just from this, I realized why I have no connection with him, he is incapable of connecting with anyone, just material things and people are just another possession to him.

expatChump
expatChump
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

Unless they are hurting them, the disinterest in pets is not a red flag for me. I’m not a pet person. I’m not going to harm an animal, I just have no interest in having one.

Lyn
Lyn
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

My ex worked with animals but he could also be pretty cold to them. We once had a dog that needed surgery and when he brought her home he just pitched her in the garage like she was garbage. I remember going out and she was shaking and obviously in pain, I brought her inside and made her a pallet and tried to make her more comfortable.

Another time a bird hit our glass window and broke its neck. I brought it inside and put it in a shoebox on some towels and stroked it as it died. He kept yelling at me “It’s just a damn bird!” like I was the stupidest person in the world. How can someone be so heartless? His mother was there and said “She’s just sensitive,” like the problem was me.

Michael
Michael
8 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Wow Lyn, you just hit on something for me. My ex-wife came from a long line of sociopaths with broken marriages. I am not kidding when I say all the women from her mother side of the family has been through divorce. One of her aunts uses her kid to extract money from her ex-husband and has never had a steady job. She’s in her late 40’s and goes from man to man living off them.

My ex is already well into the same pattern and she’s half her aunts age.

IHaveHate
IHaveHate
8 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Lyn…….your ex reactions sicken me. I’m in tears.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Yeah, like your compassion was a weakness. Pah-lease. Compassion is the most beautiful & most valuable trait a person can have.
How people treat the weakest beings of the world; the elderly, babies & animals shows their own worth.

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

My ex only wanted cats because, in his mind, they didn’t require any care.

I remember when we visited some friends who had a new puppy. We were all gathered in a small dining room, the Coward’s back against a wall, hands in his pockets. The puppy went over to check him out, get a cuddle and a smile. All the ex could do was muster a sneer, and kept his hands in his pockets. I was mortified. I wondered what was wrong with him. But I got out my can o’ spackle, and went to town.

His little woman has two chihuahuas and loves animal rescue. I bet he loves that about her–she’s so special. Or, he hates it, because those dogs take attention away from him. I wonder if she sees his coldness yet.

Wren
Wren
8 years ago
Reply to  Miss Sunshine

I knew something was missing in my ex when he focused his pet hobbies on fish, snakes, and tarantulas because as he said, “I don’t want anything to get too attached to me.” Truer words were never spoken. Wish I had been paying attention then. He even confessed that he didn’t love our wonderful dog, who was our “child” since we didn’t have kids. That was when I knew I wanted out. Dogs, kids, wives… all need attention, emotion, and love. Which he simply wasn’t able to give. Needless to say I got the dog in the divorce.

TheLadyisaChump
TheLadyisaChump
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

Yeah, they hate you for “faking” being upset and trying to “control him” by making him feel guilty. Your “phony” tears are going to fool him.

slg188
slg188
8 years ago

Yes! My ex always thought I was manipulating him when I cried or got upset. I never understood what he was talking about. I was showing feelings!!

Chump Change
Chump Change
8 years ago
Reply to  slg188

Mine would say “quit the waterworks” and NEVER in 38 years even attempted to hug, hold or comfort me when I cried. My sons would say “oh, mommy you need a hug” on the rare occassions i cried in front of them, and they would give the best hugs ever.

The dead eyed stare started much later, mine used to have the softest light brown puppy dog eyes. Now they are black, cold and very chilling.

Shortly before discovering Schmoopie, I opened a piece of mail from an attorney and learned of a huge $1.2 million dollar property lawsuit going on that he had hidden from me for many months! (He lost that suit by the way, and is paying off a negotiated, reduced settlement thanks to the atty I engaged. We nearly had to file chapter 7 bankruptcy, we had to do all the paperwork and be ready to file as part of the negotiations) what a jackass. We are being sued in another partnership lawsuit ongoing for 4 years, that he has greatly minimized, and finally I have had to obtain my own council to protect myself from Conflict of Interest because of his doings that I knew nothing about! I was never involved in his business, but unbeknownst to me he made me Chief Financial Officer so I am implicated!!! How can it be legal to appoint someone as an officer without their knowledge or consent? This man has put me through sheer hell.

I finally stopped trusting him as I slowly realized that he was always lying about eveything, big or small. Talking to him was like nailing jello to a wall. Never a straight answer. When I said “How can you go about lying and hiding everything?” And he replied “It’s just my fatal flaw” with a smirk on his face and a laugh. That look is called “Dupers Delight”. Scary. I realized waaaaaaay to late that he is all about doing what he can get away with. He has been a serial cheater all along and I had no idea.

Well, the legal noose is tightening, and he is in total denial of the reality he is facing. Wonder what Schmoopie will do when she finds out he’s broke, is a con man, probably will be found guilty of fraud, owes IRS back Taxes, student loans, over 100k on credit cards ….more money than he will ever be able to repay. And he will have to pay spousal support too. I’ve heard he is already cheating on Schmoopie. Nice!

Last time I saw him was in court. He was found guilty of criminal contempt of court charges in a civil proceeding for blatently defying a stipulation by the judge! Oh, I forgot, rules don’t apply to Mr. Wonderful.

He couldn’t/wouldn’t even look at me, his stbx wife of 36 years. How does it come to this?

I can’t wait to be free of this monster. I don’t know this man. He just found a vulnerable window to live with and support him who believes all of his lies.

I was on to him.

Einstein
Einstein
8 years ago
Reply to  Chump Change

Made you CFO? If I know my narcissists (which I do) he planned on you taking the fall a long time ago.

Chump Change
Chump Change
8 years ago
Reply to  Einstein

Einstein, I’ve learned its quite common in marriages…. But the husband usually tells his spouse about it. It’s a major problem when the spouse isn’t ethical. He never thought he would be held accountable. Rules dont apply to them… I dont think he intended harm, and he has indemnified me, but thats not worth the paper it’s printed on. He just doesn’t care and has been very careless with my life. We are both being sued separately, (by an investor who is a lawyer no less) so I wont take the fall for him, though he could take me down with him. Legal costs are doubled now that i have separate representation. I hate my life!!!

onthehill
onthehill
8 years ago
Reply to  Chump Change

Chump Change, I need your email, lol.

chump change
chump change
8 years ago
Reply to  onthehill

How do we chumps connect by the way?

NoMoreNarcs
NoMoreNarcs
8 years ago

That was my experience, too. It’s like the only real emotions on the table are theirs (to the narc). Everyone else’s emotions are silly attempts to manipulate (and cheat) the narcissist out of kibbles. Which leads to my other theory (which is probably actually a thing much better described elsewhere) is that narcs always suspect other people of doing what they are in fact doing. So if your narc thinks your emotions are pure manipulation, that just means that their ’emotions’ are instruments of their own manipulation?

ChumpFromF
ChumpFromF
8 years ago

TheLadyisaChump… a loooong time ago I suffered another cheater, who spoke about “larmes de crocodile” (phony tears) and I did not understand. And he wrote to me several letters after that, and drew a crocodile with tears after his signature. I did not get it, I was so obviously devastated, should I have jumped through the window or what, for him to believe my pain was real ??? I have never been a hypocrite, I haven’t understood it to this day. And now you write this. “Faking”. “Phony tears”. Why do they say that ?

MsMachete
MsMachete
8 years ago
Reply to  ChumpFromF

My XN insisted that all crying was just a ploy to manipulate him. All psychopaths believe that to be the case.

KT
KT
8 years ago
Reply to  MsMachete

I get the “I’m not going to play your game anymore.” This is said with a dead eyed stare. Apparently, crying or expressing emotion is playing games. At the very least, they’re shallow and can’t handle other peoples emotions. At worst, they just don’t care and never have.

Gypsy57
Gypsy57
8 years ago
Reply to  ChumpFromF

ChumpFromF,

One word: P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I-O-N.

It’s because HIS tears would be fake, and as others have posted, they tend to see the world as THEY are (a fake) and not as IT is (SOME fakers and a whole lot more GENUINE people)

Immature thinking at its worst.

UnsinkableMollyXinAlabama
UnsinkableMollyXinAlabama
8 years ago
Reply to  Gypsy57

YES!!!!

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  ChumpFromF

Look to my post below for the answer 🙂

TheLadyisaChump
TheLadyisaChump
8 years ago

I meant to say “aren’t” going to fool him.

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago

I also got that dead stare when I asked a question he didn’t want to answer, then he’d change the subject. It drove me nuts!

KibbleFree_MightyMe
KibbleFree_MightyMe
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

Yes! I got the dead-eyed stare on DDay, and for the 8 months I would intermittently see him before he abandoned. I went through absolute hell, suffering PTSD for almost a year, and he could care less about destroying a 23-year “relationship.” I’m sure now it was because he was just going through the motions of being a “husband,” “dad,” “ethical person,” all the while knowing none of it was true.

That dead-eyed stare? It was x10,000 in his very recent mugshot after getting arrested for assualt & battery of his soulmate whore’s NEWEST soulmate (not kidding), and burglary of her whorehouse. Dead-eyed stare is right.

IHaveHate
IHaveHate
8 years ago

KibbleFree……a friend of mine once said…..’it’s the power of the pu**y’. That’s what gets the men all fired up…….the new strange and they lose all senses they NEVER had in the first place! And for the women…..of course the power of the p**is……
Sicko’s, all of em!

The blank stare, yep, raising my had too.
And I got this…..”I get that you’re scorned”.
Scorned?…..not even close. He ought to be thanking GOD that I believe in GOD and want to get upstairs, rather than downstairs. 🙂

Kay
Kay
8 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

I think it’s just jealousy and entitlement. Chumps never have another person on the side to fight. We are committed to them. Sadly, it seems like it might be a turn off. Now maybe if chumps had brought someone else in, then maybe there’d be something else to fight.

expatChump
expatChump
8 years ago
Reply to  IHaveHate

I don’t believe it’s ten power of the p***y. The ex withheld for years. I believe it wasn’t about sex at all. It’s just that he is straight up insane

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago

KFMM, wow, that’s just awful! They fall pretty far when they do. Hope he didn’t call you for bail money!

KibbleFree_MightyMe
KibbleFree_MightyMe
8 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

OMG, Roberta – YES!! But not for money. On his second night in county jail, I had 4 missed calls from some randon 866 number. He finally got a hold of me and wanted…wait for it…

“Can you give me my divorce lawyer’s number??”

No joke. I told him to get his soulmate whore to do it. He said they broke up. I said, “This isn’t my problem. You need to grow up and figure it out on your own.”
*Click!* (I hung up)

INSANE!! He wouldn’t “fight” for our marriage and family after 23 years, but fights for what?? A whore that helped him kill our family, who then just kicked him out? And now, there’s yet ANOTHER blameless victim of these two whores, and he’ll likely sue the x-douchebag for beating the hell out of him and giving him a concussion.

Classy. SOOOOOOOOO glad to be away from that freak. (((Hugs to all Chumps!!!)

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
8 years ago

uh….this has left me dumbfounded…KFMM. I hope you send her flowers for taking this asshole off your hands.

Seriously, when I think about it, in the end, it was the best thing that ever happened having these masked men and women revealed and then led away.

KibbleFree_MightyMe
KibbleFree_MightyMe
8 years ago
Reply to  CalamityJane

CalamityJane – I would send flowers, but I don’t care enough. Besides, that ho-worker got EXACTLY what she wanted, don’t you think? Just glad he saved the insanity for her. I do feel bad for the newest guy she took into her whorehouse and was screwing within days of dumping the x-douchebag, only to have him get battered by this synthetic testosterone-injecting nutjob.

When I saw the mugshot online, my pulse didn’t even race. I felt – nothing. I know the NC was the right choice from the day I filed against him. (((Hugs to you, CJ)))

TheLadyisaChump
TheLadyisaChump
8 years ago

I got the “I hate your guts and I hope you rot in hell” dead eye stare about a week before Handout Boy took off. I was simply saying “Hey next Friday is such and such. We should do x-y-z on that day.” Then I got the dead eye stare. I thought he didn’t hear me so I repeated. Still got the stare. He already knew he wouldn’t be around to do said thing. Hence the no reaction.

FreedomFromCrazy
FreedomFromCrazy
8 years ago

In my case, it was fuckwit’s wheels spinning trying to sort out the lies he already told with what the new finding was. Just buying time to come up with yet another thing I won’t believe. Then, when I say i don’t believe it, it turns into gaslighting & blame shifting.
In addition to the “dead behind the eyes” stare, he would do the “deaf technique”. I’d ask a question and he’d not address it all, as if I never said it/he never heard me and move on to another subject he liked better…typically blaming me for some ungodly thing or a poor sausage routine.
It’s mind-boggling how these twisted pieces of shit operate.

Lyn
Lyn
8 years ago

Oh yeah, many times when I’d talk to my husband he wouldn’t give any response, like I wasn’t there. Sometimes I’d get frustrated and ask if he would please look at me when I was talking to him, but he refused. Sometimes he’d repeat back everything I said to prove that he heard me, but couldn’t be bothered to respond.

Verity297
Verity297
8 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

I had this too Lyn, he’d repeat everything back parrot fashion and not even take his eyes off the TV

Other Kat
Other Kat
8 years ago
Reply to  Verity297

The lack of eye contact used to make me crazy. He would come home, walk straight by me without looking at me or saying hello, open the mail and huffily throw away junk mail, bark orders at our children about their homework, then go upstairs to his stupid man cave. If I had something I needed to discuss with him I’d then have to endure the humiliation of walking into the room only to have him continue staring at his computer screen without looking up or keep talking on his cell phone dead-eyed staring past me as if I wasn’t there. Never once did he look up from the screen to ask what’s up or say to the person on the other end, hang on a second, so he could find out what I needed to talk about. Such a smug, arrogant, entitled little baby.

Now when we need to discuss anything about the children I look past him or at my phone while he’s talking and then start walking away so he has to follow me if he wants to continue the conversation or get an answer from me. And when I see that he’s about to pull a sneer and shake-of-the-head at me in preparation for walking away in feigned discuss, I walk away before he has the chance. It drives him crazy. Of course it doesn’t affect the outcome of our discussions, which usually go in circles even on basic scheduling issues, but it is satisfying nonetheless.

Other Kat
Other Kat
8 years ago
Reply to  Other Kat

Feigned disgust, I mean! My other favorite was the silent treatment where he would walk around all Sneeches-on-the-Beaches at me, as though my mere existence was so offensive it wasn’t even worth acknowledging.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago

Freedom, when he was trying to sort his lies out did he often act like he didn’t hear the question and/or ask you to repeat it? Mine did. I’d ask him something then bed go “huh, what?” when I dam well knew he heard me. He was just buying an extra few seconds to conjure up a lie. It never worked….

FreedomFromCrazy
FreedomFromCrazy
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

Jamie,

Oh yeah! Big time! And you know why it never worked? Because we are smarter than they are, both intellectually and emotionally. There’s simply no reasoning with crazy.
Did you find that their AP’s were all just as dimwitted and emotionally stunted? I sure did. That’s what they need to feel good about themselves….someone eagerly lapping up their lie soaked verbal diarrhea.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago

Freedom, we are only 20 months out but his girlfriend is very young-read naive. She’s not stupid, though, quite the opposite. He goes after women who are too good for him but lack self esteem & don’t know their worth. If this girl figures him out and bails then I imagine his life will be filled with shittier & shittier options. Fingers crossed!

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago

My STBX’s MOW left me some voicemail’s when she was drunk, called ME a white skank whore, ME the whore lololol!!! She also told me to not call her husband any more or she’ll call the cops, her husband returned my call when I tried to get a hold of him to tell him of my discovery of their affair (which he didn’t care about because he said he cheats on her and she’s just getting him back!) . When I played them for STBX to hear (more than once btw), STBX cringed and said she was just drunk, she’s not always like that. OMG, have at her, you two deserve one another. They’re all dumb, my IQ dropped trying to deal on their level I’m sure. I’m on my way out now, moving 200 miles away from all this garbage.

ChumpFromF
ChumpFromF
8 years ago

The dead eye stare I got many times after D-Day was like “I have something to say but I cannot say it for obvious reasons”, an oral censorship, equivalent to the thick black line on a secret document review by the CIA.
And before D-Day, after I had him flewn back in emergency from the Eastern country hospital (where OW had been visiting him every single day), he had an empty stare all the time. He was lying on the bed with his broken leg and he looked like his brain was fried, flat EECG. I had no idea what was going on, so I assumed it was the shock of the broken leg at the sports club there.

Grace
Grace
8 years ago

To me its that don’t care look as to say so what.I can do whatever I please.They feel they are kings and kings are not answerable to anyone.They don’t have consciences,hearts or sympathy so what do they have to feel guilty about.Your pain is your problem because its your fault they cheated.They are busy chasing after new conquests to worry about you and your need for fidelity.They have that look to say I am in charge and I can manipulate and control my way out of every question,scenario and circumstance.They say she is still here asking questions so she must still care.I will control her with my silence.I have gone through this with my serial cheater.Its over so no contact works for me unless he has to talk about the kids.People who are reading this do not breed with a serial cheater.

ByeByeCheater
ByeByeCheater
8 years ago
Reply to  Grace

Grace, I agree completely with you.

They have no conscience, heart or empathy so basically, they don’t *feel* anything.

No contact works – unless you have to speak with them about kids but stick to the topic you need to discuss only, nothing more. My daughter doesn’t tell him some things and I have learned not to ‘fill him in’ anymore.

insistonhonesty
insistonhonesty
8 years ago

I think they’re trying to look dignified instead of scared that they’ve gotten caught… and hope their betrayed spouse doesn’t see the wheels of their brain skidding out.

(Hint: We do.)

conniered
conniered
8 years ago

I got that when I told him that I checked his phone and discovered he had set up a PIN for it to keep it locked. I THEN announce matter-of-factly that people do that when they are hiding something. I got the silent dead-eye stare. I could see that he was trying to be nonchalant…and that’s when I started digging into cell phone records. Bingo.

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
8 years ago
Reply to  conniered

Ah, yes, the wonderful cell phone records. That were in my name, because I had a job. While I was working, he was texting his new flame, and I counted 27 on one day. That was when I knew in my guts, and when his lying began.
But I am so grateful that I could check those cell records in the early months, when I was planning my escape!

Lioness
Lioness
8 years ago

The mindfucks are both blind AND deaf! I always thought the wall would respond faster! The blank stare = Fuck you !
Brains..?? Do cheaters really have that? I always thought they just had a big hole where brains oughta be.

LiningUpDucks
LiningUpDucks
8 years ago
Reply to  Lioness

Blank stare = F You

Yes, I think the blank stare may be a small version of a narcissistic ‘silent treatment’, something they are famous for.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
8 years ago
Reply to  LiningUpDucks

Stare + stony silence= ‘you aren’t worth an answer’/I am superior to you’ in the mind of the narc.

In other words, “I will do what I want because I can”

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
8 years ago
Reply to  Hesatthecurb

Sigh….We ALL get it, James. We don’t need your validation.

Regarding your last comment to me: you are unable to understand Mehwillbesoogood’s post because unlike us, Mr self proclaimed psychopath, you have no compassion, empathy or understanding of human emotion.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
8 years ago
Reply to  Hesatthecurb

I am not being ‘tetchy’, James. Just stating the facts….But you are showing your disorder…..you have totally launched into outer space and I have no idea about most of which you are referenced.

I have had two of your kind in my life and I will now do with you what I did with them—-

chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp chirp

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
8 years ago

“I can’t believe he found out! Doesn’t make sense that a mere mortal could discover my hidden life. I am so smart.” -Thinks cheater as she stares blankly.

Michael
Michael
8 years ago

“Quick! Let me do something to neither confirm or deny that I’m busted.” – Engage blank stare.

LaughingSquirrel
LaughingSquirrel
8 years ago

“Lied? I am incapable of such a thing” – Thinks cheater as she stares, and hides face (Wheels spinning on what version of the truth she can tell next)

TwinsDad
TwinsDad
8 years ago

I got this a couple of times after I filed. In my Ex’s case, it was accompanied with a very slight smirk. As if to say, “yeah, you got me. But look at what I’ve done to you so, Ha!, joke is on you!”

Physicsgal
Physicsgal
8 years ago

This was another a-ha moment for me the (as Nomar said) BS (bullshit/blank stare). Then someone followed up with, they could do this for hours but you cannot compel someone to say (or do) anything (learning this over and over with my teenagers). This is my wasband and kids passive aggressive way (cause they learned it well as we/I fought to understand the idiocy) to accept no blame and offer no remorse/excuse. I guess I was always seeking some logical/rational reason or waiting from him to own his shit as it were for his idiotic/hurtful behaviour. He knew I had other things to get done – paid work, house work, child care, meal prep – if he remained in BS mode for long enough, I had to move on. He knew I would spakle over it, I had other things to do. In hindsight, it’s brilliant. Silence let’s the chump fill in the blanks – and for a long (too long) time, I invented/constructed plausible excuses I could live with. It’s just another time, a light goes on for me and I’m thankful to understand behaviour and be out of a terrible marriage. If I extend this, this is how to teach your mom or spouse, not to ask questions. One you won’t get one and two, your subconscious on some level, knows you don’t want to hear the truth (some things you can’t unhear and they require action like filing for divorce). But thx CL, I’m still learning the layers of f’dupedness

tony
tony
8 years ago
Reply to  Physicsgal

Physics Gal

I think you summarized the cause of the stare very well, and unfortunately, against a conscientious person it is effective.

NoMoreNarcs
NoMoreNarcs
8 years ago
Reply to  Physicsgal

Physicsgal, I too am struggling to raise a teenager whose front line coping mechanisms seem to emulate those of her father (charm-rage-selfpity-deadeyedstares-denial). But she goes really, really easy on be charm because she is too angry at me (or the world) to throw much charm my way. Her maladaptive behaviors, poor relationship and coping skills are not really working for her; but she can’t really see why yet (she is a teenager). Maybe her genetic destiny is to turn into her father’s mini-me, but I can’t accept that yet. I’m trying to help her cross over (use the force, child) but so far have been unsuccessful. It completely breaks my heart to think she will live her life this way…

Mehphista
Mehphista
8 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

I am same-same. Turns my blood to ice, that thought. It’s a tightrope to walk between age appropriate, non-editorial candor, and the GENUINE need for her to know there are some really dangerous people out there, and her Dad is one of them…..so I fuck up all the time. Jeez, I used to get triggered when she acted like him….but I think she has had a chance to see for herself the results of her Dad’s behavior, and her own, when she chooses to emulate him. It doesn’t get her far.

But me and the kiddo have been away from the non coparenting shitstorm for a while- two years soon, and she only sees him for a month in summer. That was her choice. She is coming in to herself, and it’s wonderful. A friend told me, shortly after Dday that the kids grow through it. Seems to be true.

Hang in there.

Lania
Lania
8 years ago
Reply to  NoMoreNarcs

This, right here, is why I don’t believe that a cheating spouse deserves any time with their kids.
They cheat, they can fuck off as far as I’m concerned. People need to stop pussyfooting around this issue that these people are BAD for children, especially their own.
Because, next thing you know, they turn out as sick personality-wise as the cheating fuckwit.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Physicsgal

Physics! “I had other things to do. He knew I had to move on”

Hello! That’s it exactly.

Mine knew I’d forgive quickly so the less effort he put forth the better for him. He knew I’d give him the benefit of the doubt, so better not to incriminate himself.

PF
PF
8 years ago

My ex-wife had a look on her face when confronted that was a cross between taking a shit and sucking a lemon. That look on face transitioned to shrill crying as she jumped from couch to couch chomping on our throw pillows.

Lost2015
Lost2015
8 years ago
Reply to  PF

This is exactly how my wife looks. I likened it to her trying to turn a turd into a diamond. Unbelievable how similar they all are.

PucksMuse
PucksMuse
8 years ago
Reply to  PF

I am so curious about this, have been ever since you wrote about it for the Cheater Freak Christmas contest.

So was this something she only did once, or did she pillow-gnaw every time she was stressed or questioned?

Was this something she did as a child to to cope? Chewing on random objects?

Do you think she was honestly freaking out and had to chew on the nearest object to distract herself or was this an attempt to distract you so would you would stop asking difficult questions?

How the heck do you respond to pillow-gnawing?

PF
PF
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

The pillow-gnawing was a one time thing. I think the proof I had was too much for her to deny.

FMT
FMT
8 years ago
Reply to  PF

I’ve loved this story ever since I first heard it. Not to minimize what had to have been a horrible and seriously freaky experience at the time, but it’s just such a comical image. If you think about it, though, it makes perfect sense that she would stuff a pillow in her mouth. Like a child trying to stuff the truth back in.

PF
PF
8 years ago
Reply to  FMT

It was definitely surreal, I remember standing there in shock as she had her fit and it was like she was possessed.

I can laugh about it now, sadly the throw pillows tragically died a horrible death. I liked to throw pillows and may they rest in peace.

PF
PF
8 years ago
Reply to  PF

Meant to say I liked those throw pillows.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  PF

I bet she got so damn overwhelmed that she reverted back to early childhood to cope. Seriously. I understand freaking out when your entire life comes crashing down….but when YOU create it…seems a bit overdone to chew on the pillows. Haha

Lyn
Lyn
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

Tracey needs to do a pillow chomping cartoon.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  PF

Bahahahaha!!!!! PF!!! Your description painted the most hilarious mental image for me!

meh please
meh please
8 years ago
Reply to  PF

omg yes! the stbx would have these jumping up & down hissy fits when he didn’t get his way lmao

insistonhonesty
insistonhonesty
8 years ago
Reply to  PF

Rabies?

Cindy
Cindy
8 years ago

“Rabies?” That made me spit out my protein smoothie.

PAPrincess
PAPrincess
8 years ago
Reply to  Cindy

YES, Rabies…. and then they can blame it all on that, too instead of being accountable 🙂 Perfect.

Grace
Grace
8 years ago

Maybe its look at you trying to question me don’t forget its my private part so I can do with it what I please.

ANC
ANC
8 years ago

Shark eyes when I asked if he was screwing escorts in San Jose when I found a web page of a local place on his PC after he returned from a trip to SJ. “No! But I will!!!” was his reply.

Sheer panic stare when I busted him. And then again after I located the MOW spouse and indicated I was contacting him.

But never really the dead-eyed state. I think that’s because he has been a pathological liar his entire life and knows how to model or project/portray feelings that normal, emotionally healthy people show in times or happiness, stress, sadness, etc… Let me come back to this one in a few. I’m sure I’ll get there once he gets a legal notice.

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  ANC

Mine said at one point “You are lucky I don’t cheat on you”.. is that some kind of reverse psycology?

Happyitsover
Happyitsover
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

Mine proudly proclaimed one day that he was so proud of himself that he had been faithful to me for the last 13 years (we reconciled after splitting after Dday #2, married a total of 23yrs). I still shake my head at how dillusional cheaters are with their lies. I’m convinced they completely believe the shit that comes out of their mouths…

I got the dead stare when I got him to sign the separation agreement, which he did without even really reading it. I was tearful and trying to hold it together and he just looked at me like nothing was happening… Made me feel like I never meant anything to him.

Donna
Donna
8 years ago

The dead eye stare may be the result of not being able to respond fast enough. X was stupid. Juggling the phone numbers, names, dates, lies and responses taxed his cheater brain. Throw in the alcohol and weed with all that and blank stare emerges.

Howvdo they keep track of it all? If discarding your wife and children are so worth it all one would think it’s a relief for them after divorce. Perhaps it’s just a slip of the mask. That’s my vote. Everyone who sees him since he moved in with piggy describe him as looking completely different with odd oersonality changes in character. Mask off.

Hopeful Cynic
Hopeful Cynic
8 years ago

The dead-eyed stare is often accompanied by the stony silence. I got more of the latter because I did a lot of my confronting in the dark, because he was such an avoidant coward he wouldn’t talk to me if there was a chance of seeing me crying.

In my experience, it’s the long pause while their brain races trying to figure out the least unbelievable answer that will get them into the least amount of trouble.

Einstein
Einstein
8 years ago
Reply to  Hopeful Cynic

I think you nailed it.

expatChump
expatChump
8 years ago
Reply to  Hopeful Cynic

Same with me regarding the Stoney silence and confronting in the dark. Most of the post dday talks happened late at night when I woke him up to talk because I couldn’t sleep.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago

I think it’s a combination of things:
-The imagine management covering the fury at being discovered
-Maniacal self amusement
-The internal conflict of wanting to admit they hurt you on purpose and not wanting to lose the kibble source
-A glimpse into what’s really going on in there; nothing
-An arrogant attempt to make themselves appear more clever & conniving than they actually are…like they’ve “planned this all along” when they really haven’t
-Rage from being held accountable
-I think they want you to fear them, as if this stare indicates they’re some kind of grand evil mastermind that is all powerful and you should be afraid
-A culmination of all the past slights (or perceived slights) they’ve experienced throughout their entire life coming to the surface and you becoming the symbolism of why ALL those things happened and why they’re so unhappy
-The silence that goes along with it, IMO, is the theory that if you say nothing you can’t be held accountable…one of Gollums favorite infantile delusional tactics

Gollum brought out the dead eyes many times in many settings. Sometimes it was just his “resting bitch face”, the expression he had when he forgot to put on his fake smile or didn’t realize anyone was looking. Sometimes it was upon being caught in a lie and I could tell there was in inner rage that set in from me uncovering it and then having the nerve to address it. Sometimes it happened at the onset of a disagreement, he’d literally just check out…I assume he developed that from 20 years worth of being dominated by his aggressive mother…I imagine he used going numb as a defense mechanism. Sometimes it came on when he had been drinking and lost control of his ability to be fake nice.

As I said above, pleading the fifth was Gollums favorite tactic. If he didn’t want to be held accountable for something he’d go silent or say “I don’t know” or “I don’t remember” to get out of whatever it was. I imagine this might be a tactic a young kid might find useful but a grown man? Typically the dead eyes went hand in hand with the stonewalling. Along with those were other behaviors he would exhibit when trying to quiet the narc rage inside;
-Rubbing his face obsessively
-Running his hands aggressively through his hair
-Pacing
-Obsessively cleaning something when he rarely ever cleaned a damn thing
-Avoiding eye contact by busying himself with something, but not actually “doing” anything. For instance, when we are discussing something now that he wants to avoid but can’t (about our daughter) I do it in person because he’s much less aggressive. When I do anything aside from submit to him completely, which I never ever submit, he busies himself in the back seat of his car. He leans in and essentially moves shit around aimlessly. It’s fucking bizarre. He literally picks up papers, trash, a shoe and sets it back down in another place. And when he finally does crawl out from the back of the car….dead stare.

Lol.

Donna
Donna
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

TheBetterJamie

The lack of planning on what he would do after he told me he found someone else and wanted a divorce fit the X

He couldn’t make simple plans never mind long term. Yet he rearranged his entire life around a whore. Suddenly his life had possibilities.

What he never counted on was that I would throw him out and file for a divorce. I’m not surprised he regrets his fucked up life.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Donna

Oh Donna, right there with you. Gollum absolutely got caught with his pants down (pun intended). I don’t think he ever thought he’d get caught…and he almost didn’t. We were divorcing from the abuse & toxicity and I think he thought he had gotten away with it. But it’s not like it’s brain surgery to check phone records, just in case. There it all was.

I also think he planned on getting rid of me first but he didn’t have his ducks lined up (at all) and I kicked him out before he was prepared. It didn’t help that first OW was actually playing him, or he was having delusions that she might actually want to be with him…either way, she didn’t want him for anything more than some attention.
Talk about the shock of a lifetime; I had put up with so much escalating abuse for so long that he never dreamed I’d have the nerve to flip the switch and just be done with him. Because this all caught him so off guard his immediate reaction was to just retaliate with all the terrorism he could muster, which was a lot.

Happily never after
Happily never after
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

Better Jamie– pretty near got it perfect in describing my sad sausage. Mostly the comment about “there was nothing there”. Stupid to the Nth degree. He would also use the body language of a 5 yr old girl. Complete with arms crossed over chest and lower lip stuck out with nose in the air. I’ve never seen such emotional immaturity. And he was 65.

Informal
Informal
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

How about chest beating? A man has neeeeds! He had no idea a woman and kids have needs as well.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Informal

lol, no chest beating for my ex, he’s the least alpha male I know. Chest beating would be too obvious for him, he fashions himself a sly, shy, passive, relaxed type. He’s above the typical aggressive overt narc behavior….he’s a REFINED narc sociopath.

Now my disordered father? Oh lawd we could be here all day. Here’s a little taste of what growing up with him looked like: imagine you & your mother watching your dad from the house as he’s inside your detached garage having a literal temper tantrum by flowing obscenities and stomping/hopping around while repeatedly picking up and slamming down a 2×4 that was to be used to repair the pool deck. That went on for upwards of 20 minutes, until he ran out of steam.

He also once threw himself down on the gravel driveway of my childhood home and kicked his legs, thrashed his arms and pounded the ground with fists clenched because he was angry.

I had forgotten about those stories. Yikes. I wonder why I didn’t find Gollums abusive behavior all that bad….

Kimberly
Kimberly
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

LOL your father sort of sounds like my ex I got a laugh imagining him rolling down a gravel hill stomping and flopping around. Thanks for that.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Kimberly

Hey, you’re welcome! Hahaha. If finding my fathers wacky ass behavior humorous is any indication that some day I’ll only laugh and feel no twinges of pain when recalling my ex’s behavior then I’m glad for that.

I thought my dad was the worst….until I met Gollum.

ChutesandLadders
ChutesandLadders
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

TheBetterJaime, I think you hit the nail on the head with your reasons for the blank stare. Bravo. What a brilliant way to convey disdain, hatred, refusal, and insignificance to your spouse.

FMT
FMT
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

Wow, that *is* fucking bizarre! Wow!

Sephage
Sephage
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

“A culmination of all the past slights (or perceived slights) they’ve experienced throughout their entire life coming to the surface and you becoming the symbolism of why ALL those things happened and why they’re so unhappy”

That’s it in a nutshell with my stbxw.

One (of many) complaints I got after confronting her about her adultery: ” I made myself small for you! ” expressed with emphatic pseudo-emotion but in combination with the dead eyes thing. That sounds awful until you think about it for a second and realize that it actually makes no sense whatsoever without specific examples. I.e., it’s temper tantrum tactics, not a rational discussion of marital issues.

linddykal
linddykal
8 years ago
Reply to  Sephage

I’Ve heard this before, it’s from a movie and now it’s bugging me because I can’t remember which one.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Sephage

She made herself small for you? Did she mean that literally, like in a physical sense, or that she submitted to you?

Either way it’s a weird statement.

Sephage
Sephage
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

TBJ – not sure, I never did get an explanation and I’m not going to try to untangle it. In her view, I’m responsible for anything wrong with her life: unfulfilled dreams, feeling bad about herself, you name it. No way those things could’ve been a direct result of her lying for 15 years of our relationship, right? 😉

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Sephage

I get it. And you’re right, not worth untangling. I assume it means she “did you the favor” of her presence all those years….she was held back from her big dreams and life goals by being with you.
Makes perfect sense. *sarcasm*

Sephage
Sephage
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

TBJ – exactly. That, and I suppose also complaining about the invisible chains with which of obviously chained her so that she couldn’t accomplish her dreams. Never mind that she racked up $100k in debts and penalties, in secret (much of which I ended up helping her pay), that couldn’t have hampered her life, right? 😉

Kate50
Kate50
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

Mine would rub his forehead constantly when I questioned him, weird.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate50

I think Gollum wanted to look like he was thinking deep, philosophical thoughts. I also think he was trying to massage his head to draw the lies to the surface.

SphinxMoth
SphinxMoth
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

For those poker players amongst us….isn’t that called a “tell”? I never noticed my XH’s tells until I started actively cornering him and observing him closely while he was telling lies (when I knew the truth already).

I would make a statement like “Well, I wonder how your calling this woman will sit with her HUSBAND?” or “So you don’t think you’ve harmed anybody by having unprotected sex?”

He would immediately turn his face away, it was a sudden and knee jerk response. Almost like I punched him. Then he would just as quickly recover and face me with whatever quick thing that came into his head.

The other is what I call the “mouth swipe”. You know…when you take your thumb and forefinger and run them down the corners of your mouth real quick, like when you’re clearing something off the sides of your mouth? Every time I confronted him with something truly egregious, he did that.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  SphinxMoth

Sphinx, that’s interesting and you’re right, that’s absolutely his “tell”. I do know that touching your head/hair/face/ears in general is a subconscious sign of discomfort. Gollum always seemed as if he was uncomfortable in his own skin, like he was forever restless and could either burst or shrink & wither away at any moment, depending on his mood.

I know I tug at my ear when I get nervous but hopefully that’s not a sign of hidden sociopathy. Lol.

Finally realized
Finally realized
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

I’m quite sure it’s not, TheBetterJamie. Carol Burnett does it. 🙂

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago

Lol. Perhaps I’ll start clenching my teeth instead…that seems normal.

chump-tastic
chump-tastic
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

^ This one is so weird! Haha I can’t handle it. Dying over here.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  chump-tastic

Paint that picture in your mind and think of that if you encounter any troubles today. Hahaha. Imagine what my expression must look like as I stand outside the car watching him do this, puzzled & appalled by it.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

One time when he emerged from out of the back seat I asked “you all done in there? Find what you were looking for?”

Insert mumbling about an important paper and then him fleeing as fast as he could.

He also fiddled with our daughters car seat for, no lie, 20 MINUTES as I introduced myself to his girlfriend. I bet she was wondering why he didn’t have her back for that awkward meeting.

nuclear tuna
nuclear tuna
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

I think it’s cognitive dissonance brought on by fear when they realize they’re caught dead-to-rights doing a no-no. But… perfect beings such as themselves don’t feel fear… or so they need you to believe. So they are stuck in an internal struggle to not react, because reacting would mean you are right and they know it.

… or maybe I’ve spent waaaaayyy too long trying to untangle the skein.

Shechump
Shechump
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

Better Jamie – what an excellent post! You put it out there exactly what I couldn’t put into words and I related to about 95% of it. Amazing – the more we find out about these creeps, the more we realize we’re not alone. Thank you.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

If you relate to your ex fiddling around aimlessly in the back seat of his car to avoid having to engage you, as well then I think we may have married brothers. Lol. Funny enough, Gollum does have at least 2 brothers with the same sociopathy.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

Totally agree, Mephista. Maybe I’ll grab one of the dogs toys instead and he can have a gnaw at that.

PS-it’s his dog. He left that behind too. Lol

Mehphista
Mehphista
8 years ago
Reply to  TheBetterJamie

Crivens. It’s a clan. Mr Fab had similar brothers……what a whack job, TBJ. Perhaps he needs a pillow to gnaw on….

krking911
krking911
8 years ago

Lifeless – no feeling whatsoever.. They simply do not know how to care.

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago
Reply to  krking911

I totally agree! They don’t have the ability!

Stayin Strong
Stayin Strong
8 years ago

I think the blank stare is like a commercial break. “Let’s pause from our regularly scheduled show so that I have time to come up with more bullshit to feed you”. I remember that look when he said he was going to be at his favorite bar and when I went by (several times) his car wasn’t there. When he got home I asked what he had done that evening and he said, “I was at the bar”. I told him that he was lying because his car was never there. Insert lengthy blank stare. “Oh, so that is how it is, you don’t trust me and need to check up on me now?”. Gaslight much!?!?

Miss Leah
Miss Leah
8 years ago
Reply to  Stayin Strong

Yes. This. My catching him in a lie always turned into a discussion of how I don’t trust him enough. Blameshifting. Gaslighting. Crazymaking.

meh please
meh please
8 years ago

Before the dead soul stare I got “what’s that?” to buy time to come up with the appropriate excuse du jour.
The smirk accompanying the soul-less stare came later on, after I discovered what it was. The alien in the human suit became vengeful after it’s discovery. No remorse, no backward glance (after years and years of participating in the facade). Worst feeling was after I endured a death in the family. The day of, as I lay crying, the pos said I hope you’re not going to get hysterical. I’m still waiting for the karma bus ….

Blown Away
Blown Away
8 years ago

Yesterday I too read that and thought of the moment when I knew my marriage was flying into the dumpster and got the Dead Eyed Stare!
The unraveling of his life long secret life and discovery day began over $$$. I had caught him twice previously in an account with unexplained withdrawals. He fed me a lie. He then followed that lie with a promise he would not do it again…(another lie). DDay, when it was vomited on the kitchen floor (the TIP of the iceberg), I assaulted him with “YOU LIED TO ME!!!” I was gifted with the Dead Eyed Stare. My adult children said to me when I shared this with them said, “Mom, he was just trying to figure out which lie you were talking about!” I agree too that it could have been the window to his empty soul.

PucksMuse
PucksMuse
8 years ago

I had a former boss who almost certainly had some sort of personality disorder and he did the “dead eyed stare” regularly.

Ask him a relatively simple question? Dead-eyed stare.

Ask him for an update on a project to which I have devoted hours, and only need his signature to hand off to our production department? A project that has stalled on his desk for two weeks? Dead-eyed stare.

Ask for time-off for a funeral or wedding? Dead-eyed stare.

Inform him of a problem you’re handling, but you think he needs to be aware of? Dead-eyed stare.

Ask him not to delete your in-progress files from the server, destroying weeks worth of work? Dead-eyed stare.

Believe it or not, I preferred the dead-eyed stare to the vicious yelling or emails that not-too-subtly implied that I was a useless idiot.

After I quit (chockfull of workplace PTSD!) I had to analyze why this cruel, immature, angry little person would do this and I came up with some theories:

– He wanted me to feel like the dumbest person on planet Earth. The dead-eyed stare said, “I would speak to you right now, but you don’t have the brain power necessary to process the wisdom I would have to spoon-feed you.”

-He wanted me to panic under his “scrutiny” and fill the space with confessions of my mistakes and idiocy.

– He wanted me to feel like I had no right to question him. If he responded with a dead-eyed stare, I would be too intimidated to ask questions.

-He wanted to cultivate an air of mystery and menace, like he was Michael Corleone staring down a foot soldier that disappointed him. (“Don’t ever ask me about my business, Pucksmuse.” “But, sir… i work for that business!”)

-He honestly did not know how to process regular human emotions.

-He just plain sucked.

He was shocked when I quit and considered me “disloyal’ when I would only give two weeks notice. I left and wrote a comprehensive guide to what I did daily, weekly, monthly and yearly, and how to complete those tasks so he wouldn’t need to contact me. It didn’t stop him. When he did, I told him to refer to the guide I left him and hung up.

I thought I had a handle on it, but I had full-on panic responses every time my (awesome) new boss gave me any sort of negative feedback. Even though she was awesome and didn’t employ any of the mind games former boss did, I was convinced it meant she was going to fire me. She finally sat me down and said, “Look, you’re doing great, but you can’t freak out every time I point out a mistake.” I had to tell her what happened at my previous employer and she was very sympathetic. If not for her understanding, I might still react that way to criticism, constructive or otherwise.

Lania
Lania
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

Holy shit. I went through this too!
In my case it was my direct boss, and her boss – my direct boss would lie through her teeth and try to mould me into a perfect (in her eyes, basically ‘do exactly what I say’ bullshit) employee – her boss would be the one who did the dead-eyed stare combined with gaslighting.

I found this site and started lurking, mainly because I sensed something was VERY off with those two people, and I wanted a means to protect myself from their fuckwittery (combined with stonewalling and abuse from my boyfriend at the time). Its weird, because they enabled people who were useless and incompetent, but the ones who did their job properly would get undermined at every opportunity. It was basically a huge cesspool of bullying, harassment and subterfuge.

In the end, and this was as a result of reading CL’s articles about personality disorders mostly, I realised that, to mortally piss off an NPD, you need to ignore them (No kibbles for you!). And ignore them/not give a fuck for their ‘hidden rules’ anymore – within the bounds of legality and not doing anything outright which would get you fired from an ordinary job, I did.

Funny really – because there was a place closer to home where I always wanted to work, but could never land a job there on account of no job openings – this very place called me about a month after I found CL – and offered me a job there, no interview or anything! I took the job without any hesitation – and the next working day I had a note of resignation in my hand – which I handed to my direct boss with only the following words: I have had enough. Said notice of resignation had no reason as to why I was leaving – and I never let on to them that I had another job. It was none of their business, and given that they were personality-disordered fuckwits, they deserved no response, or worse, would have used that info to sabotage. I essentially washed my hands clean of the place and stopped caring.

My current job is awesome (the place which gave me that phone call), though I do have that same feeling of thinking ‘Am I in trouble?’ every time I get called into the manager’s office – mild PTSD, who knows?

The karma bus was this: I heard through one of my colleagues at this job, that my old workplace has essentially crumbled to its knees.

Koru
Koru
8 years ago
Reply to  Lania

I am so glad you managed to get out of such a toxic place! And that you are thriving in your new job. There is nothing like the feeling of actally being appreciated!

Lania
Lania
8 years ago
Reply to  Koru

Thanks Koru, I’m glad too. Been there a bit more than 12 months now, and already been given 2 raises. Which is more than that old job ever did (This is a job, where this, honest to god was said by the ‘blank stare’ superior boss: ‘If the patient lists are the usual size, you won’t be able to take tomorrow off to visit your aunt in hospital’. And my aunt was dying in hospital, too. My response? “I will be taking tomorrow off, irrespective of your so-called ‘patient lists’. Get someone else to cover it, like you do for everyone who takes days off for trivial reasons.” I visited my aunt in hospital, which ended up being about 24 hours before she passed away.)
And yes, 1000x that – that there’s nothing like the feeling of being appreciated. Also, being respected for your expertise.

ItsAJourney
ItsAJourney
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

Interesting. My stbxh, would use it at work too. We have a business together. There were times in group meetings where it was clearly his time to weigh-in and he would hold us all hostage with a ridiculously long pause. This happened many times, and I thought it was his way of demonstrating just how powerful he was. He also did it at home when I’d ask a non-threatening question. He would yell at me if I repeated the question (assuming he hadn’t heard). Maybe your boss felt more powerful when he held you hostage with silence?

PucksMuse
PucksMuse
8 years ago
Reply to  ItsAJourney

I think it was more contempt based than a power struggle. He really, really, REALLY didn’t like me.

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

PucksMuse, you hit it on the head on all accounts.

chump-tastic
chump-tastic
8 years ago
Reply to  PucksMuse

Ooh. This is a really interesting one. I totally see how that could be maddening in the workplace.

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago

I’m going to go with the fact that they are simply stupid or morons! My EX was never particularly smart, but he thought he was a “learned man”. His own Mom & Dad told me that they always knew I was smarter than him and then laughed heartily about his stupidity and his affair! What does that tell you? He is vacant with no REAL feelings except the feeling he gets doing some idiot whore!

chump-tastic
chump-tastic
8 years ago

Lawd. You guys are hitting the nail on the head. I love the following observations from this thread:

“Perhaps it’s just a slip of the mask.”

“I think the blank stare is like a commercial break. ‘Let’s pause from our regularly scheduled show so that I have time to come up with more bullshit to feed you’.”

“Silence lets the chump fill in the blanks.”

“In my case, it was fuckwit’s wheels spinning trying to sort out the lies he already told with what the new finding was.”

I think all of these are true. My STBX gave me the dead-eyed stare when, after giving him a dozen chances to “just tell me what was going on” and he denied there was anything, I brought out the love letter to OW I had just found. Zoinks.

And even now, almost a year past D-Day, he wants the lies and gaslighting to continue so he can keep kibble flowing in from multiple places. When I nonchalantly said “Hey, I think I should meet (a brand new) OW if she’s going to be hanging out with my child every visit,” he dead-eyed stared for the longest 30 seconds ever, standing there with my front door open and the toddler hopping around on the front stoop. Like, no conversation or redirection whatsoever. I think it was a combination of being shocked that I knew about her (of course I know about her, you canoodle with her publicly in the town I grew up in, my toddler has mentioned her by name several times, and you really think you can go to Mexico with her and me not find out about it?), and trying to come up with the quickest lie possible.

The sad part is, she seems like a decent lady and because of his expert manipulation skills, has no idea what’s in store for her if she sticks with him.

Oh well! Anyway that was a funny incident when it happened.

Blown Away
Blown Away
8 years ago

And a side, but IMPORTANT note to our Nation Newbies….FOLLOW THE MONEY. The financial infidelity goes hand in hand with secret lives.

PAPrincess
PAPrincess
8 years ago

I got the stare along with the arms crossed. It is the denial pose. The passive aggressive ” I am gonna just sit back and watch you figure it out for me” behavior. In the last three years he was so good at the blank stare of ” I do not really want to deal with anything in my life so I will let you care and fix and kibble for me.” He was so checked out and day dreaming about his entitlement. Who cares about the two beloved family dogs being put down. Who cares about your adorable aunt dying, the father having open heart surgery, the mother terminally ill and the mother-in-law with demensia. Who cares if our son needs us to help him find a college. Who cares if our youngest is having trouble with bullies. Who cares if our daughter is withdrawn and having trust issues. Who cares if wife is having menopaus symptoms…I want my dick sucked and you are too tired… WTF? I will just go flirt and impress the young girl at work who makes me feel 30 again instead of dealing with our family that needs me to be a man right now. The blank stare is the window into a cold heartless bastard or bastardess.

Koru
Koru
8 years ago
Reply to  PAPrincess

Describes my moron perfectly.

ChestnutMare
ChestnutMare
8 years ago
Reply to  PAPrincess

“Dreaming of entitlement” . Perfect, PAprincess!

LiningUpDucks
LiningUpDucks
8 years ago

The soul-less stare is made most apparent when the topic is something that is gut-wrenching to you, yet conjures no such human emotions in him. Like, “So, did you ever really love me?” Commence cold, lizard eyes.

This cold stare happened with other minor things (“That was a fun dinner party….now let’s clean up the food on the counter”…..cold stare and no response), but didn’t bother me as much then, since I wrote it off as him being tired or a bit obtuse. But when you’re sobbing, or he’s telling you he’s leaving you and the kids? The coldness stands out like a sore thumb…..an empty, black void in contrast to normal human empathy.

startofsomethingood
startofsomethingood
8 years ago

I remember reading this post by Tracy when I first joined Chump Nation. It helped me so much. I never got much of the cake eating. Blank stares and totally unplugged was my experience.

https://www.chumplady.com/2014/09/the-ones-who-just-leave/

TheBetterJamie
TheBetterJamie
8 years ago

This previous post you shared is my exact experience written by someone else. It helped me heal so much. Invaluable information in there.

TiredChump
TiredChump
8 years ago

i never got the dead eyed stare.
I got something scarier – a complete and utter lie to my face my looking me dead in the eye…..

Me (suspicious but clueless): “Look into my eyes and tell me: Is anything going on with x?”……
Eye contact between the two of us……
CH (while locking eyes directly with mine and laughing a little): “Nothing is going on. I’m here. I love you.”

hmmm…..that was probably 4 months before Jan 2015 d-day and two-plus years into his affair with someone 26 years younger than he is.

And I am still with him, trying to reconcile?

startofsomethingood
startofsomethingood
8 years ago
Reply to  TiredChump

Run TC, RUN!!!!!!

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago

I agree! TiredChump please run as fast as you can straight to a good attorney! On the way home pick up some really cheap black garbage bags and place his shit on the curb! Save your dignity and time for someone who will appreciate it! And take one half of your bank account with this POS BEFORE you file for divorce at the attorneys office!

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago

LiningUpDucks, yep, I got that one when I asked him if he ever loved me or was our marriage of 40 years just a lie and a sham? I certainly wanted to know after four kids? But all I got was this deer in the headlights stare that seemed to go on for an eternity! I believe I actually did get my answer though! Me and the family meant less than nothing to him! His “dick warmer” GF was more important than our previous lifetime together! It hurts, but at least I’m finally in the know!

LiningUpDucks
LiningUpDucks
8 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

Roberta – Ugh, what a jerk. Hugs.

ej1963
ej1963
8 years ago

I got this exact stare as I was sobbing after finding out about my XH affair with my friend.
I found out about the affair after her husband came to my house and tried to beat the s**t out of my H, H ran away leaving me alone with the guy and out 2 kids screaming in terror (what a guy eh?).

On his return about a day later I sobbed “how could you do this to me?” and got that stare as he told me Your tears mean nothing to me!!! The coldness of that sentence has always stayed with me

I won’t bore you with the long version of the story but we did try to reconcile(!!!) I think mainly because I was afraid to go it alone; I had no support network and, of course, no chump lady back then. This was a complete disaster of course as it was always still about his pain and his feelings of guilt. However something that night had forever changed me and over the next few years I went from being a timid mouse to a real kick-ass gal and decided to kick his ass out……..finally!

Except of course NOW he realises how much he loves me, he can’t live without me, he’s broken-hearted, how can I do this to HIM?????

Karma is a great thing, sometimes you have to just wait for it to happen, as he was in a heap sobbing I simple turned to him and said Your tears mean nothing to me………

As a postscript I’m not usually a cold-hearted bitch but in this case I did make an exception……..and it felt good!!

FMT
FMT
8 years ago
Reply to  ej1963

“Karma is a great thing, sometimes you have to just wait for it to happen, as he was in a heap sobbing I simple turned to him and said Your tears mean nothing to me………

FTW!

not Juliet
not Juliet
8 years ago

All I can say is I can’t wait for the whores these people hooked up with while married get the Stare themselves. It probably won’t take long either.

expatChump
expatChump
8 years ago
Reply to  not Juliet

^^^exactly

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago

No doubt NotJuliet, but right now these bubble-headed OW’s believe all the BS our spouses fed them! I too am glad she has him now and all of his problems. He has become a nightmare health wise and it tickles me pink knowing that she will have to change his diapers! Karma is a bitch and it visited them in record time! Mr. Sexy is all hers now! How romantic!

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
8 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

She won’t be hanging around through the nightmare of recovery after a Whipple procedure. He’s gonna be on his own then. He’d better be checking out the local home healthcare companies if he knows what’s good for him.

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

I agree Glad! I guess the recovery is brutal in a variety of ways, but his “world class surgeon” has told him that he’ll be “tops” in two weeks! Somebody is slinging bullshit I do believe!

not Juliet
not Juliet
8 years ago
Reply to  Roberta

So true, Roberta. I’m wondering, though, do you think she will actually stay with him through his illness? Cause your average cheater will usually cut and run at the first sign of anything physically unattractive. Age, weight gain, childbirth, disease. Or maybe she will stay and cheat on him. That would be super karmic, for sure.

ChumpFromF
ChumpFromF
8 years ago
Reply to  not Juliet

My ex- loves to demonstrate affection towards our female dog in my face. He misses her soooo much ! In contrast with not giving a rat’s ass about me (and we never had an argument, all was fine until D-Day, go figure what’s in his twisted mind, the satisfaction of displaying undeserved cruelty I guess).
However, I am convinced that if our dog gets sick or incontinent due to old age, he will be quick to forget her inconvenient existence. As not Juliet briliantly puts it above, the first sign of anything physically unattractive, or the first sign of weakness, will earn his contempt.
As if he was perfect. As if I didn’t take care of him when he had a broken leg or when he was sick. As if he always looked good and perfectly groomed.

nomar
nomar
8 years ago

I’m working on a theory that my ex-wife was actually an insect. Insects have no eyelids, so no blinking. Right now the smart money is on Preying Mantis, though strong plays are being made by Bed Bug and Dung Beetle.

But seriously, I think my ex usually gave me the blank stare when I finally chased her down all the rabbit trails and found out a secret or a lie. Having nothing left to say, she stared in cold condescension, as if to say, “Boy, it sure took you long enough to find me here. You must be incredibly stupid.”

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
8 years ago
Reply to  nomar

Ha! Yeah, except insects actually provide a useful service in the ecosystem, but cheaters are useless fucks.

But this makes me think of an episode of the X-files called Folie a Deux. There’s a call-center manager who looks like a totally normal, benign middle aged guy to everyone except one employee who can see the reality — the manager is actually some sort of giant insect who sucks the life out of the employees one by one and turns them into zombies. It’s a great episode.

nomar
nomar
8 years ago
Reply to  GladIt'sOver

Hm. Sounds like a storyline I’m familiar with. After you’ve been chumped you tend to understand stories about vampires a lot better, too!

Lina
Lina
8 years ago

No dead eye stare. He couldn’t look me in the eye AT ALL.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
8 years ago
Reply to  Lina

When I was first involved with XBF, I was IN LOVE with his expressive eyes….beautiful dark brown with long eyelashes like a baby. They ‘smileyzed’, twinkled and seemed to have an inner glow. He also had a light blue ring around his pupil. I was mesmerized. We always locked eyes when we spoke to each other.

I remember one evening as we were having a discussion I told myself that I had just seen the ‘look of love (for me!!!) in his eyes’….

The very next morning I was sorting out “was he with his ‘former’ gf last evening?” THAT was the first time I experienced the ‘dead eyed stare’. He wouldn’t look at me, was staring straight ahead. If I positioned myself in front of him, he shifted position. Then he changed to pacing…….pacing ……pacing. Refusing to acknowledge my questions—a blank wall.

I was ENTITLED to answers to my questions. He felt entitled to not answer.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
8 years ago
Reply to  Hesatthecurb

I meant ****’smized’**** above.

Wow, was my interpretation of the look of love off the mark. That twinkle was merely the reflection of his devious mind high 5’ing itself for the evening’s planned deception.

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
8 years ago

In my case, I think the dead-eye shark-eyed stare was a, “Anywhere but here right now” look. He just was done with me. He was in love with someone else, and I was just a noise and a bother at that point. The last thing he wanted to do was to feel any affection for me. So he closed the curtains behind the eyes, and retreated inward.
I wonder if he gave the kids the same look? I’ll never know, I guess.

Chumpita
Chumpita
8 years ago
Reply to  Miss Sunshine

MS, don´t think that he loved someone else…the dead eye stare means they don´t love anyone, not even themselves. They can´t understand love, its not in their register of feelings…they only understand human animal not human spirit. They are very basic beings to begin with, like insects…no consciousness, no evolution going on in their system…they are primitive

Miss Sunshine
Miss Sunshine
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumpita

I actually agree with you. I think the dude has bonding issues.

cheaterssuck
cheaterssuck
8 years ago
Reply to  Miss Sunshine

Same here. It was less of a blank stare as it was “Really, do I have to listen to this again? Aren’t you over it yet?” Complete with eye roll. So I guess I answered that question when I asked him for a divorce. I’m over it now, loser!

42enough
42enough
8 years ago

Whenever I caught him in a lie he’d just give me a nasty look, the blank stare and say in a condescending voice, “we’re done here, nothing else to talk about”. Shouldn’t surprise me though…. He buried his head in the sand every time one of our 4 (now grown ) children had a problem. Including 14 years of substance abuse with our son. He turned his back on him & I stood by him…AA meetings, probation appointments & now he’s been sober 2 years. My idiot husband has turned his back on 4 great kids & 5 beautiful grandchildren. He can keep his blank stares…. No one seems to miss him…

Roberta
Roberta
8 years ago
Reply to  42enough

Same here 42enough! Four kids, eleven grandkids and 41 years of marriage and he texts me this, “We’re finished”! Just lovely!

stuntchump
stuntchump
8 years ago
Reply to  stuntchump

I’m no good an embedding…

Ex didn’t save that look only for me.

The mediator got it.

The therapists for both out daughter and “us.”

So much so that both therapist asked me if he had Aspergers’s Syndrome because he was so slow processing other people’s
emotions.

I think the elevator shaft if very fitting, because it always felt like, if I said something to him that didn’t fit into his justifying narrative easily it would be like one those maze games where you try to fit the ball into the hole tilting carefully…it would feel like he would be rolling something around I said, during which time you get the shark’s eyes…when it didn’t fit he would just…

…tilt..

and roll it off into an abyss.

MissDeltaGirl65
MissDeltaGirl65
8 years ago

Wow. My X must have been an ‘advanced case.’ He had — and still has — the dead eyes almost ALL THE TIME. I had just never noticed. I thought it was part of his quiet, introverted personality. I thought of him as my “gentle giant.” In fact, after he ran off with his mistress, and I was fumbling about trying to rebuild my life, one of my acquaintances told me she had never liked X. When I asked her why, she said, “It’s his eyes. They always seem dead.” It was that comment that caught my attention and I started noticing his eyes. Scary.
Next week marks 10 years since D-Day. Recently, I was culling old photos and saving a few to start keepsake photo albums for my children, and my 10-year-old son wanted to look at the pictures with me. He has no memory of his father ever living in our home. “Mommy,” he asked, “How come daddy never smiled in any of his pictures?” Those same dead eyes were staring back at us from every single picture. Even in the few pics where X’s mouth appeared to be smiling, his eyes still had the same dead look.
We eventually ran across one picture out of hundreds in which X seemed to be genuinely smiling and his eyes had a little expression in them. My son grabbed the picture was so happy and excited to run show his sister the one happy picture. “Look — finally here is a picture of Daddy smiling!!!”
We added it to my son’s album, along with the dozens of pictures of my husband – who is now my children’s adoptive father – smiling, laughing, grinning, holding and hugging and giving shoulder rides to my son. This is the man who has raised my children as his own since they were very small. Who ran through the sprinkler with them. Who taught them how to shuck corn, ride bikes and throw a baseball. Who reads to them, prays with them, and tucks them in bed every night. This is the man who broke down in tears while reading “The Giving Tree” aloud to his stepchild’s kindergarten class.
We have gone from the man with “Dead Fish Eyes” to “the Man with Melted Chocolate Eyes.”

Almost Single Guy
Almost Single Guy
8 years ago

I always had a hard time smiling in pictures with my STBX wife. Now that I’ve escaped I see myself smiling much more.

Meantime she still has the same Stepford smile pasted on 24/7.

ByeByeCheater
ByeByeCheater
8 years ago

“Those same dead eyes were staring back at us from every single picture. Even in the few pics where X’s mouth appeared to be smiling, his eyes still had the same dead look.”

MissDelta – I’ve noticed this too about pictures. Also in some, it’s like his eyes are wider than usual like he’s trying not to blink but that deadness is still there.

Lost2015
Lost2015
8 years ago

I’ve been hovering around this site for the last several months. So many great posts and comments. It is amazing how, while each of our situations is unique, the actions, expressions, sayings, lies, and deceptive acts of our cheating spouses are all nearly identical in the end. This post in particular finally got me to sign up and comment because it rings so true for me, god I hate that lost stare.

My wife was/is in a LTA with a COW and since I don’t have too many answers (and she will admit to nothing – I get the lost stare or flat out ignored every time), I have to fill in all the blanks myself. Probably a big waste of time in the end, but it’s human nature to need to look back and figure out what part your life was actually true and what was a lie.

Anyway, just a big thank you to all of you and CL for giving me a place to gather my wits and to help me understand that I’m not nuts.

Lania
Lania
8 years ago
Reply to  Lost2015

Lost2015: A good technique to fill in the blanks, when you’re desperately seeking answers:
Assume its always the worst possible thing – if you suspect they are cheating – you would assume they are a serial cheater. Assuming things can sometimes bring you to be more objective and ‘distant’ from the whole situation, so that you can process and heal from it.
The worst case scenario might be true, or it might not be true, but it helps to build the ‘puzzle’ of uncertainty I guess.
Its what worked for me, but everyone is different and this might not work for you – disregard if its not.
Sending well-wishes your way!

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  Lost2015

Lost2015- I can relate. My STBX has never admitted to affair either, despite damning evidence. I suspect it’s gone on several years, since this “friend” has been around for quite some time.

I too want to fill in the blanks, I am an information person and I like to have all the facts. Before nixing the marriage I wanted to make sure I knew ALL. Turns out it doesn’t really matter.. I knew everything I needed to know at dday even before I discovered the whore. He’s just not that into me. He’s the kind of guy that would throw away a wife, two young sons, to go “have some fun” and for “excitement, and passion” and “a new future”. To hell with the pain it’s causing. To hell with me, our kids, our extended family… it feels good to HIM and that’s all that matters.

I am sorry you are here Lost but you will make it. You aren’t crazy, and you aren’t alone.

Lost2015
Lost2015
8 years ago
Reply to  newchumpatl

Thanks for the kind words. I found out late last year and I think I’m at the point now where I realize I’ll never know everything. I just have to get my wits about me to the point where I can just end the marriage and move on.

newchumpatl
newchumpatl
8 years ago
Reply to  Lost2015

You will get there Lost. It will come. Hang tough.

TiredChump
TiredChump
8 years ago
Reply to  Lost2015

As sad as it is to get hard evidence – it is helpful to know you are not going crazy. My intuition was flashing red hazard lights since last August, and even when I found some photos and receipts I still made excuses for at least another month (doesn’t everyone take their younger by 26 years coworker to a museum and birthday dinner while family is away on trip he couldn’t attend because of work.)
Luckily my good friend, and sole confident, told me she thought I was in serious denial and encouraged me to start doing some espionage
I now have enough evidence to “know” what went on for over three years. I just don’t “know” what to do next.
I also joined Chump Lady because the advice seems so logical, and exactly what I should do / would tell my daughter, sister friend to do in my situation – however, I am so shocked/sad/overwhelmed from the past few years of deception and the fact that my husband could do this to our family – that I am slightly immobilized and immersed in reconciliation process.
Chump Lady and all the posters are awesome – reading this site is like having coffee with a good friend who tells you like it really is……….and makes you laugh out loud in the middle of what is a pretty sad situation.

TiredChump
TiredChump
8 years ago