UBT: ‘Refrain From Any Accusations’
Dear Chump Lady,
Help please.
On 22 January 2023, my husband of 20 years told me he was involved with someone else and moved in with her the next day. Until that moment I thought he was my best friend.
He told me he’d met her by chance and one thing had led to another and that they were into a type of sex that he described using the word torture. (Why would he tell me that?!)
He actually told me about her initially in December 2019 (I have a new friend and I’m going out with her whilst you are at work). He then laid into me for two months because I asked him once if they were in a relationship.
Over the intervening months, I’ve found out that they met on a fetish/swingers website where he’d been involved with men and women. I’m no hypocrite. He can sleep with whom he likes but just not when he’s also having sex with me. I’ve also found out that he’s stolen thousands. Including from my Mum. He told her we couldn’t manage financial but not to tell me. He took £3k off her 10 days before D-Day.
I look back and see the control. But the fuckwit is so superior that it is subtle. See the email below. I blew the no contact regime that I’d carefully maintained. I just had so much to get off my chest not having spoken to him after all these revelations emerged.
I don’t know what I want from him. An apology. For him to be nice?! I didn’t know he hated me until this happened and it’s like losing half of me. I read that email and I wonder if I have it all wrong?! He is so good at being the victim and turning it around in me. Can the UBT see the control?
Here’s what he sent (cc-ed to all the lawyers):
Thank you for your private messages on WhatsApp, specifically on 18th September, and 00:13 this morning. You previously indicated and made it clear you wish to minimise any communication between ourselves to essential communications in relation to our divorce, the former marital home and matters relating to our son. I have done my best to respect that wish. However, the messages received from you on the dates noted above have questions, comments and accusations (true or otherwise) that seem to indicate you wish me to respond to. Is this correct? I do not wish to upset, provoke or otherwise cause further negativity between us. If you are wishing to enter into dialogue, then please confirm that is the case. If you do not, I will assume you are just wishing to express and share your pain, anger, sadness and frustration with me. My concern is that once such exchanges take place will they descend into more pain and upset, mainly for you but also myself. Also, my concern is that whatever responses I give to you will not necessarily be believed, so is there any mileage in doing so?
On a final note, please can I ask you to refrain from any accusations, or insinuations, that I do not love our son. Despite what has happened and I may, or may not, have done, my love for our son is paramount and unwavering. Whatever accusations you level at me, please do not ever accuse me of not loving our son. I trust you will give me that level of respect at least, even if you feel i do not deserve any more.
I apologise if you perceive this email to be part of my supposed campaign of gas-lighting you. It is not any attempt at such an act.
I look forward to your response in due course.
Best
FW.
He is living rent free in my head and I want to evict him. I was his affair partner way back when. I thought he was the victim of a terrible marriage. Now I know he played me then and that he is playing me now. But he then does something like this and I think I have I’m wrong.
Regards,
Blew NC
***
Dear Blew NC,
Look, you’re not going to get the usual amount of sympathy and solidarity here because you were once the affair partner. It’s still a character choice to liberate someone from their “terrible marriage.” Now the “terrible marriage” is you and another liberator took your place.
Lesson going forward: When someone shows you they’re capable of betrayal — never believe you’re a special exception. Adults clean up their messes. He could’ve left his former marriage ethically and he didn’t. So, he just repeated his pattern of being a shitty, narcissistic creep.
With that bitchslap out of the way, let’s examine what a scary creep he is.
He told me he’d met her by chance and one thing had led to another and that they were into a type of sex that he described using the word torture. (Why would he tell me that?!)
He’s literally telling you he enjoys torturing women. Nothing to miss or pick me dance with here. I would absolutely document that exchange for your attorney, assuming the world and the legal system where you live haven’t normalized “torture” as harmless kink.
As to why he would tell you — to hurt you. Because he enjoys hurting women. He literally just told you that.
I’ve also found out that he’s stolen thousands. Including from my Mum. He told her we couldn’t manage financial but not to tell me. He took £3k off her 10 days before D-Day.
Can you press charges for fraud? Absolutely ask for this money back in your divorce as theft of marital assets.
I blew the no contact regime that I’d carefully maintained. I just had so much to get off my chest not having spoken to him after all these revelations emerged.
Rookie mistake. But there is no closure. Pressing for answers is just sticking your head in the mindfuck blender.
He did it because he could. Because that’s who he is and has always been. That’s your closure. Asking him for answers is power, and he thrills to your weakness.
Exhibit A: The WhatsApp he sent you. Which I shall now toss into the crushing mandibles of the Universal Bullshit Translator.
Thank you for your private messages on WhatsApp, specifically on 18th September, and 00:13 this morning. You previously indicated and made it clear you wish to minimise any communication between ourselves to essential communications in relation to our divorce, the former marital home and matters relating to our son. I have done my best to respect that wish. However, the messages received from you on the dates noted above have questions, comments and accusations (true or otherwise) that seem to indicate you wish me to respond to. Is this correct?
You poked the tiger. The tiger is delighted.
I do not wish to upset, provoke or otherwise cause further negativity between us.
I am the rational adult here and you are a hysterical woman upsetting, provoking, and causing negativity with her emotions.
If you are wishing to enter into dialogue, then please confirm that is the case.
If you do not, I will assume you are just wishing to express and share your pain, anger, sadness and frustration with me. My concern is that once such exchanges take place will they descend into more pain and upset, mainly for you but also myself.
I can’t be bothered with your pain. If it isn’t tied to a post with a ball gag stuffed its mouth, I’ll pass.
Also, my concern is that whatever responses I give to you will not necessarily be believed, so is there any mileage in doing so?
You know I’m going to lie. I’ve got a new victim to play for kibbles. I don’t want to exert further effort on you.
On a final note, please can I ask you to refrain from any accusations, or insinuations, that I do not love our son. Despite what has happened and I may, or may not, have done, my love for our son is paramount and unwavering.
My love is pure, in that cheat-on-his-mother-and-torture-women-in-my-sex-dungeon kind of way.
Whatever accusations you level at me, please do not ever accuse me of not loving our son. I trust you will give me that level of respect at least, even if you feel i do not deserve any more.
Respect the man with the double life! He’s got a dozen other lives you don’t know about. And in one of them, or perhaps fourteen of them, is/are a son/s he loves.
I apologise if you perceive this email to be part of my supposed campaign of gas-lighting you. It is not any attempt at such an act.
I fail to understand your hostility. It’s as if I did something offensive. This is not an attempt at gaslighting. It’s gaslighting.
I look forward to your response in due course.
Best
FW.
The mindfuck blender has been set to pulse.
***
Blew NC, please recommit to no contact. God speed on the divorce.
I used to wonder if my FW justified his cheating to the multitude of other partners until I realized everyone in his orbit is nothing more than a transaction to meet a particular need. Myself included.
He probably made you believe you were the one who rescued him from the hellscape of his previous marriage, which I suspect some cheaters do to line-up their affair partner as the next transactional beard for their double-secret life just in case wife #1 doesn’t stick around after discovery.
My point here is that once you come to terms with the fact that you were never more than one of many, no matter how painful that revelation might be, the quicker you’ll do what needs to be done to protect yourself and your son from further harm. Your outlet to express your pain is not and should never be the abuser who caused it. Find a safe-harbor friend to vent to, or better yet, a good counselor/therapist to help you heal.
I’m sure my ex was crying to the now “Just a Wife” (she was “just a friend”) about what a mean woman I was. No, I just expected him to be an adult and have his priorities straight and to be honest. Who knows what kind of gossip those two have spread about me. However, I suspect once my daughter is old enough to be driving herself around and left home alone that he will be looking for his next replacement. Current wife better hope he doesn’t meet a curvy blonde in accounting!
One of the best things I got out of the truly awful life-suck of a marriage with my ex, is that I learned not to give a shit about what anyone else says about me. I cannot control the lies he tells. I cannot run to every individual I know, the teachers at the school, his family, MY family…..and set the record straight. It’s liberating not giving any energy to that. People are going to gossip–if the listeners believe the BS, nothing i can do about it. I know my people and they know me. I would have preferred to have learned that lesson a different way–but you really do have to go through something to get there.
Seekay, this is helpful for me to read tonight. It gives me a new facet of “meh” to aspire to.
I had so much empathy until I saw that you were the affair partner who helped him abuse the wife before you. I genuinely hope my ex husband’s AP ends up like you. I hope she wastes 20 years of her life too and then gets discarded like I did. Sorry, but I think you got what you deserved. Now you know what you did to another woman. Now you get to be the horrible, evil woman his new girlfriend is saving him from. It’s not so fun and empowering and sexy from the wife side, is it?
Oh, I MISSED THAT!!!!! I thought the end was that block of text from him, I missed that she was an AP also. Well, what goes around comes around….she can’t say she didn’t know what she was getting. I’m sorry for the child, but not so sorry for her……as the saying goes, if they’ll cheat with you, they’ll cheat on you and that’s the truth. Blewing NC, you can’t really say you didn’t know what you were getting….you just wanted to pretend the same one whatever loser is involved with him now is pretending. I hope you understand your role in this now.
You are manipulative also. You set the readers up for sympathy for you and then you confess that you were an affair partner – something all of us he are trying to disengage from thinking about. Remember how you didnt think about the first wife and the pain you were inflicting when you were the AP? Just go back to that mindset.
Yeah, the honest thing would have been to lead with that bit of information and then to penitently offer oneself up as willing fodder for schadenfreude and as a cautionary tale, like, “Just in case any of you think the APs in your situations ended up on a bed of roses, I’m here to tell you they all get what they deserve because I did.”
The whole effect is manipulative and a betrayal, like hijacking full, unadulterated sympathy cake first and then revealing the information that– had it been presented up front– might have garnered no sympathy or, at most, maybe a dry week old sympathy biscuit.
I think the threshold for “best friend” is generally pretty low for husbands.
Aside from the serial cheating, unsafe sex and fraud, I’m guessing this guy didn’t pull his weight.
So now that can all be turned over to the lawyers and the writer can focus on doing the next right thing herself. Rinse. Repeat.
He’s a liar and a player and you were lied to, you got played, Blew NC. The main difference between you and we here on CL is that our stories do not include having an affair with a married man.
What CL said bears repeating. A person capable of betrayal is giving you a sneak preview of what is in store for you. Cheaters don’t betray because of who the spouse is, they do it because of who they are, so you thinking yourself to be special is not protection.
It sounds like you pretty much got what you asked for, but that does not excuse this FW. He would do this to anyone. He’s a self-confessed sadist. However, he has shown you his weak spot- his delusion that he loves his son. I would not want my son around a sadist, so, assuming he is old enough to understand and to not be traumatized, I would disclose the fact that FW is a sadist to your son. Hopefully he will use that information to keep himself safe from exposure to the sicko’s cruelty. Normally I would say to not share the gory details with your kids, but your son needs the information to arm himself against his so-called father. He has shown himself to be emotionally sadistic as well as sexually, so there’s no reason to think he won’t also be cruel to your son. I would also disclose the theft, so son will not trust him with his money. Further, I would encourage your mother to press charges.
Another thing; consider reaching out to FW’s former wife and apologizing for what you did to her. You owe her that.
I don’t know if this is a great idea. As a chump, I hope I never hear from his AP ever. That would just put a damper on whatever day I was having. She’s done enough to the previous wife. Let her be.
I agree on all counts, I would not want my kid around this man or his unsavory companions. Blew NC can’t say she didn’t know what she was getting and it’s unfortunate she brought a child into this. She just wanted him badly enough she closed her own eyes to his faults. She should go back and apologize to the woman whose life she helped wreck.
Let him go. Focus on your relationship with your son, and don’t badmouth his father or provide more details than necessary. Go no contact as much as possible, maybe just for custody logistics and such. Your attorney can handle the rest.
To save money and time on the divorce, don’t send vents to the attorneys. They deal in very black-and-white terms: custody, division of assets, etc. Unless you are in a state where adultery is a for-cause reason for divorce and plan to go to trial, that can be put aside, too. The more you view this as a legal transaction and not a chance to completely even the score, the better. You will get some justice, but the law only goes so far.
My ex hinted that he “might” cheat when we separated, and there were signs when he took off and then settled in another state. Then his attorney overshared on multiple fronts with mine when it was looking like it was going to trial. If it had gone that way, we had a lot to work with. They had very little, and his attorney knew that. I was very happy when it settled no-fault without a trial. I really, really didn’t want the expense and the emotions of sitting through all the ugliness.
Get the divorce done.
NC, you have lived with a cheater for so long, and also helped him to cheat on his previous life. Please look into your own values, determine what they are, and live by them.
I’m sorry your mother was also defrauded by this guy.
Read and reread Tracy’s snarky interpretation of your STBXH profession of love for your son: “My love is pure, in that cheat-on-his-mother-and-torture-women-in-my-sex-dungeon kind of way.”
That is who he is.
Yes, I’d been doing jobs between reading and commenting so I forgot he was a warped and twisted specimen as well as a pompous git!
The likes of him should come with a warning, preferably tattooed across their foreheads in neon ink!
“I love our son so much, you pathetic Chump, that I fuck other men and women constantly and and lie to you and abandon you both and steal money from you and your relatives because I can’t bear to love my son so much. It hurts me so much I have to hurt others to endure it. Is it my fault I hate you because you’re a decent person and I’m a giant pile of shit? Because I abuse and steal from you and abandon him and break up his home doesn’t mean I don’t love the little bastard!!!!! How dare you even say such a thing about me that might be true!!!! I’ll sue you, you un-fun, non-torturing, faithful person!!!! ”
Guy is an epic asshole and truly deserves the misery HE is going to have throughout life in the future. BLEW NC, people like this hate people like you because you show up how truly awful he is. You’re the comparison and he looks horrible next to you. Please go back to NC, now you know why it’s important, you see how twisted he is – it might make you feel better to get it off your chest temporarily but this man is beyond decency. Pursue ALL LEGAL AVENUES AGAINST HIM and if you can keep this child in as limited custody from him as possible you should, because God only knows what kind of degenerates he’s keeping company with. This man IS a degenerate, not only for sexual reasons and his influence on your child should be VERY LIMITED. Please pursue criminal charges against him for the money especially on your Mum’s behalf. This man is no damn good.
Yes, really imho the real issue here is that the son should not be unsupervised with his bi/degenerate father and father’s company he keeps. I would also fully inform the son, so that he can protect himself, and make informed decisions. OP seems rather off herself…between starting as an OW, and then turning a blind eye to FW hanging out with another woman for years while OP is at work. WTAF?
I completely agree. I often think that custody should be limited or one parent only – I’m not one of these who thinks the child HAS to know or have equal time or treatment with both parents. Sometimes one parent is a real stinker. My father was an abusive, violent alcoholic. I would not have needed to spend time getting to know him. And I don’t think this kid needs to spend time with this sadist and his creepy friends who might hurt the kid or fill his head with evil shit. They LOVE to corrupt the innocent. As for Blew NC….she lost him how she got him. I know it was 20 years or so ago so she was probably a lot younger and more naive but she should send a letter or something apologizing to the first wife. It WAS a trouble marriage….because of HIM. It’s good that other people see a letter like this because people need to know that what he did to another woman….(or man) he’ll do to you too. Also, the idea that he had a special opposite sex friend….no one should put up with this, that is almost always an affair or turns into one. I think this guy was controlling Blew NC for years and she just didn’t realize it….now that he’s blown all cylinders she can see it, but I think the psych abuse (and probably financial corruption) was probably going on for years.
BLEW NC – don’t kick yourself for blowing NC – it’s a common thing and quite understandable but now you know why it’s necessary to have NC and only communicate through a lawyer. If you have the need to get things off your chest, and we all do, sometimes writing a letter or keeping a journal and just keeping it for yourself (don’t send it) is the best thing. You can write letters and burn them later to help take the influence out of your life, or keep them to remind you of what a rotten bastard he is, and how much he’s hurt you and your son and your mother, etc, so later on you’ll remember this. Good people tend to forget and want to forgive eventually. Don’t do that with this man. GO NC, have the lawyers take him apart like cooked chicken, send him to jail if you can, get that money BACK, and then just limit any interaction you and your son have. If you can get full custody or limit custody, I would because he’s not someone who should be around children, IMO….not just for himself but for whatever degenerates he hangs out with. Eventually – probably faster than you think -you’ll start building your own life and putting this POS in the past.
You lost him how you got him. Boo-friggin-hoo.
You were the affair partner?
You weren’t lied to. He showed you who he was at the gate, and you accepted his invitation to fuck over who he was married to because of who you are. You can dish it out but you feel entitled not to take it? I’m glad to hear you are getting a royal dose of your own medicine.
You blew NC when you decided to date a person who was still in a committed relationship, IMHO. And you now know why his so-called marriage was terrible.
It wasn’t the marriage that was terrible. It is him. And anyone he had an affair with who knew he was married.
As Dr Frank Pittman says, wonderful people don’t screw around with people in committed relationships, and wonderful people in committed relationships don’t screw around.
Affair partners are not chumps. They are complicit in inflicting unimaginable pain and suffering and damage to another person, and any involved children. You are one of the two it takes to tango, not the partner in the dark, who I’ll bet you never interviewed.
This letter makes my day. Late birthday present. Thanks, Chump Lady and Chump
Nation.
The co-conspirators (SadisticFW and OW NowWife) agreed to ensure consent was never available to the former wife and the REAL chump.
For this OW or HoWife whatever she is, there is no remorse shown to the previous wife of the SadisticFW depicted. She is the merely the latest in a long line of duplicitous individuals.
Her whinge is unwarranted. She buried the lead about being the AP and she may as well be a troll coming here and wanting support now that the SadisticFW ripped his mask off and discarded her, now that he has finished using her.
It’s like an endless daisy chain of people being fucked over. A pass the parcel of doom and destruction for woman after woman until it finally blows up in the latest APs face.
There is no joy here not even Schadenfreud for me.
It’s just fucking depressing.
PS….that being said, my sincere and deep sympathy is with the letter writer’s son, as it is with all the children that get dragged along into a parent’s sh*tshow.
I hope our letter writer will find a great therapist for him as well as for herself.
I say this as someone who has been in regular therapy since I was 22 (I just turned sixty), as someone whose child has been raised with the assistance of a really great therapist and as someone who got a great therapist for my daughter because I don’t want her to suffer from my shortcomings or saddle her with/ pass on any of my baggage.
Yes there is empathy for you ( a little –but we still get it and love you) SADLY-you poached a cheater and my bet is, he’s been underhroubd for years like mine was. His email Is the tip of the entitled, arrogant cheater abuser woman hater and woman damaging iceberg. You are not special, you are naive like I was. Thought you were special ? NOPE- NO- NOT. The more you beg, demand, threaten and poke this creep, the happier he will be. He has a million woman he is choking and you there crying real tears…it only feeds his giant ME ME ME EGO. Try not to do it. For your sake for your sons ZERO CONTACT!!!!. Of course you must care who he sleeps with and who he is hurting because you you.. NOW want to protect yourself. Remember HE COULD HURT YOU! He has no conscience at all. Pain is gain for him. Your pain. Begging feeds him, in fact the more the better.
Acts to overcome closure and need to reach out?
No sex with him.ever again.
Get STD STI exam. He may have a bad thing.
Get a mean awesome lawyer
Get your moms money back
Protect yourself in every way
Order of protection because with consequences and losing your tears he may get creepy with you. Extreme caution. DO NOT TRUST HIM
His email to you is cold, calculating and he will save whatever you write to him to indicate you are loony tunes. He may want that son” he adores” so the other woman have a child to play with( like mine did). These guys are wack.Sorry. the guy he said he was and pretended to be is not real.it is made up and he wears a nice mask over his evil intent also. He hates woman and hurts them. Let yourself not be one of them ever again. Best wishes and please stay away from married men. The ones looking for you are cheaters too. Keep ready Tracy till it sinks in. Even if you don’t believe it, still do it. It is the truth. I laugh every day when I read this column. It is the best and only advice. Tracy has my heart and my brain and I am healing with every sentence. She and CN have kept me solid through my divorce and after. I’ve had 2 cheaters and they both followed her script to the letter. Though I was not special and I was abused by 2 cheaters..I AM SPECIAL to me!!! Get up and get busy!!!!!
Poachers poach. I didn’t hear a thing about remorse for her actions. She didn’t care then and comes here to whine about the outcome. Why doesn’t she go to an infidelity sight and tell her story.
“woman hater and woman damaging iceberg”
I think this sums up more of these guys than we realize. I don’t understand it but a lot of these serial cheaters and abusers and certainly a BDSM guy like this, really seem to hate women. Sex does NOT equal love. It can equal power, control and abuse.
Also, yes, go find the wife you poached this man from and say how sorry you are. Expect nothing and only do it when you are feeling much better. You need to.look at your behavior also and make amends. Don’t cry on his x wife’s lap, be strong and take whatever she says to.you. in retrospect, like all my FH woman, you released her from a sadist creep. She may thank.you.too. but stop Poaching
He’s a right patronising, condescending git, isn’t he? I could never fancy anyone that pompous, it’s dead off-putting but to each our own, I suppose and I have to admit, I haven’t exactly got a history of choosing gems myself!
TBH, as the writer helped him cheat on his first wife, I haven’t got the same level of sympathy either, and I’m more like “Well, what did you EXPECT? He HAS got form for this sort of thing, hasn’t he?”.
But in her shoes, I wouldn’t even bother to respond to this. Let the pillock think he’s had the last word!
Blew, you’re a run of the mill OW who believe they’re special. You don’t get chump status for lacking a moral compass. I think you should pay your mother back in interest. Then crawl back under a rock with the other trolls.
It seems BlewNC has a whole lot of focus on herself, who knowingly caused this mess, and NO concern for her vulnerable son. FW is sadistic and bisexual, and hangs out with such, and should never be allowed to be around your son. Supervised visits at the most…if ordered. And let your son know the truth about his father, so that he can protect himself. FW is dangerous.
Bisexuality has nothing to do with sadism. Homophobia however does.
This guy is a sadist into torture apparently and it doesn’t matter if he’s gay or bi or whatever….he seems to have a hatred of women and he should not, IMO, be around his son. Nor should his degenerate friends.
I have nothing to add to what CL wrote. But reading this made me remember why I’ll never get the attraction to married people. They could be the most attractive humans on the planet but become instant shit the second they display any signs of being cheaters (on any excuse) so the whole thing is moot. I also don’t buy the “youth” excuse for playing the side piece role. I’ve always known that was the road to hell no matter the mitigating circumstances.
When I prosecuted a workplace stalker as an intern, coworkers squared off with some defending the stalker and some defending me. Among the “heroes” on my side who sort of clustered around me to keep the flying monkeys off my back was a very charming married guy who also happened to be the son of a screen legend. He was dazzling. He was also self-effacing, made me laugh myself sick and even coached me in self defense. I couldn’t help getting a bit of a crush but knew it was pointless and was simply grateful to have group support. They made me untouchable at work at a time when I was literally in danger.
Then I learned this guy had a toddler. Like, where was his wife while he was out carousing after work and being so “charming” and “heroic”? I met her and noted immediately that she seemed circumspect about her husband’s friends. Even at 19, I intuitively got what was going on. This situation was not benign. This guy might not have been as charming and heroic at home as he seemed to me. So when he started to complain to me about his wife, I would always stand up for her (i.e., “Oh, she had to travel for work and left you with the baby? Your son’s so lucky to have an independent female role model and it’s such a wonderful chance to bond with your child…”). Apparently he didn’t get the hint and he started making stronger overtures.
I still felt vulnerable at work and didn’t want to alienate any of my supporters so I pretended to be too dumb to understand but did. The whole thing was a depressing protection racket set up. I knew in my gut he’d done it before– waving his family’s wealth and glamor while playing self effacing, adorable hero to someone needing rescuing, using friendship infiltration tactics, hinting his marriage wasn’t solid as a hubris trap to make some idiot think they were “rescuing” him and might be able to replace his wife, etc. He looked like nothing more than a cheap operator after that.
When I turned him down, suddenly the group support began to dissipate. He was the “leader of the pack” and it was clear that, if he showed less support, the others would follow suit. Fortunately, I had moved on to another job. Sayonara, assholes, thanks for playing human shield when I needed it, sorry the pimping didn’t pay off.
At the time I could sense that, even if I was stupid and arrogant enough to believe he’d dump his family and end up with me, all I’d ever be was the “side chick brand”– basically second rate goods and viewed as even less worthy of the very marginal respect he showed his wife. It was the ultimate sign of contempt to show me his ass like that and assume I’d betray another woman and a child to boot. It was the biggest insult. I felt guilty that I’d been so desperate for social support during my ordeal that I’d played any tiny role in his disgusting game.
A few years later I ran into the guy again in LA. I thought it was funny when he confessed his wife had run off with some film big shot after she caught him cheating. She already had another child with her new husband. Good for her. Nepo-baby guy was clearly seething with resentment over getting dumped. His formerly charming mask was hanging half off his face. Gee, all that could have been mine, retch.
I’m glad I never “bit” in situations like that. At least when I was chumped, the experience wasn’t tinged with irony and a sneaking sense that it might be comeuppance. That’s as much empathy as I can muster– that it’s probably more complicated to emotionally recover from and live down being the victim of an offense one once helped commit against someone else. If it was me, I’d think a healing and philanthropic penance would be publicly warning chumps about the game and exhorting people to avoid the side dish role because you’ll end up covered in shit as well as eating it. It could do some good. I read some hilarious articles by a confessed former “mate poacher” that made me bust a gut at a particular low point: https://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/08/confessions-of-a-mate-poacher/
“I was his affair partner way back when.” That’s what you saved to the end? Sorry, but you buried the lead — purposely. You already knew FW was a cheating POS. You just loved being the AP in the scenario where you thought you “saved him” from a bad marriage.
And this begs questions… what happened to his previous wife? Did you pile on with him and make her life miserable? Was she traumatized and grief stricken? Please look back on what really happened then. Reevaluate how she was treated when you were siding with her cheating FW and helped him leave his marriage.
He’s likely been cheating on you the entire marriage too. This likely didn’t just happen 20 years later.
I’m genuinely sorry anyone has to go through being chumped but it makes it supremely difficult to have the same sympathy for someone who was not only an AP but didn’t want to reveal that until the end.
In kindness, all I can say to help is to follow CL’s advice. That’s the best case scenario. Get lawyered up, go back to no contact, get legal help to get your mother’s money back, and get your divorce ASAP.
I agree on all points including that he’s probably been cheating the entire marriage. With his history with BNC it’s very likely this is his MO. He’s probably also been stealing money from the marriage to fund his activities right along.
As for the money, yes I agree. I think these folks will steal from anyone to service their lust, even food from the mouths of their children.
The, ‘but I was lied to too’ as a justification for knowingly getting involved with a married man won’t fly around here–not in the land of nearly every chump here being made out to be a ‘nightmare spouse’ by their exes. I sincerely feel for your current predicament, but you were a chump long before you married him, so it was only a matter of time before you were the one to have to pay the piper. Go NC. Listen to your Solicitor. Get divorced. Then think long and hard about how you got yourself there. And I don’t mean that in a snarky way–figure your shit out so you aren’t doomed to repeat. Good luck.
Darlin’, you chose to reproduce with a known cheater. That was a very bad choice. I’m a little shocked that you didn’t get the memo that known cheaters continue to cheat. They LIKE it. Cheating gives them a thrill. And in this guy’s case he needs something more thrilling than just sex outside of his primary relationship. He needs torture sex.
Frankly, he scares me. He sounds like somebody who might keep upping the ante until he maims or kills one of his victims. So, I’d suggest that you keep to no contact about anything except issues concerning your shared child. Keep it like your life depended on it. It would be a very good choice.
Exactly this Lizza. The woman who wrote in should be relieved the SadisticFW has discarded her before she ended up in a permanently silent state herself. I completely agree with your threat assessment. This guy is dangerous af.
Thank you Tracy! I love UBT days. Always thought provoking. This one was one of the best. One little comment that I was hoping someone could translate for me is,
“Over the intervening months, I’ve found out that they met on a fetish/swingers website where he’d been involved with men and women. I’m no hypocrite. He can sleep with whom he likes but just not when he’s also having sex with me.”
“I’m no hypocrite.” WTF? Since when does monogamy within a marriage involve hypocrisy? Since when is it super cool to say your FW can have sex outside the marriage, but you are putting your foot down if he wants to have sex with you? Don’t get me wrong, never have sex with a FW who can give you STD’s. I’m just trying to understand the amoral context. I feel like I’m watching a Roman bacchanal, and seeing the decline of a civilization. Now I need to get my head out of the mindfuck blender.
Thanks for giving more evidence of “the way you get ‘em, is how you lose ‘em”. It sucks to find out you weren’t that special after all, doesn’t it? Can’t cry victim when you made a victim of someone else! Cut your losses, protect your son from the twisted FW as much as possible & move on. This isn’t the place for OW therapy.
It’s a shame that the word can’t be broadcasted out to the world the true universal accuracy of “ once a cheater, always a cheater”.
And a public service announcement that lets everyone know, EVERY single cheater will tell you their marriage and spouse are crappy and they need you to rescue them from it! They are lying liars who lie!
And that doing the thing you KNOW in your heart to be right( not getting involved with a married person in the first place?!) is the only right decision to make.
But, sadly, your needs superseded the betrayed spouse’s and had more value to you.
It’s a cosmic level misread with very serious consequences. That seems to be the solipsistic world order we live in now. It’s become an all about MY journey mentality and making myself happy above absolutely anything else is the goal. I can just grab what I want from the carousel of unlimited options and let everyone else fend for themselves.
Let the games begin and the most entitled win!
It is a sure fire formula for the boomerang effect, rebounding around and eventually kicking you in the ass too.
Because, the reality is, no one is that level of special or entitled enough to trample on other people’s lives. No one.
Cheaters have created the pathological narrative. ( spouse with a laundry list of shortcomings and only you have what it takes to save the poor cheating fool from his life)
You will desperately convince yourself nothing could be more true than that.
You will make it your mission to take what you want and in your manipulated mind, truly deserve to have. With no empathy or concern for the “ flawed” spouse you are deceiving.
Except the entire foundation is built on a pile of concocted untruths. Not any of it based on substance or integrity. The foundation has countless cracks and has been crumbling since day one. It just can’t hold the weight of the narrative of self told lies forever.
It would be so amazing if ppl were not able to lie to themselves. None of this spouse stealing would be sustainable and countless families might not have to be dismantled and severely injured.
Blew, it all hurts like a mf, we at CN know all too well. An angle you didn’t see yourself having to ever view, but the inevitable has a way of showing up.
Get the divorce moving along, no contact with this sick man. Your new job should be to keep your son from becoming your ex husband.Demonstrating every day to him your new found integrity, moral fiber and unselfish love and protection.
That will go a long way to building your own self esteem, strength and character.
All the best with that. Your son deserves at least one stand up parent to model his life after.
People make mistakes. Step up to the plate and do the right thing. There’s peace and a good solid life you can be proud of waiting out there for you, if you truly desire to establish that.
Your STBX? Not going to have the same outcome.
Well, Blew NC, by now you’ve seen as CL said, that sympathy here was not going to be high due to your OW status.
My 2 cents.
I think a lot of Chumps are rightfully and understandably angry. I knew as a young woman that dating married men was wrong. But I will say this, a lot of people here have commented things like “don’t you know once a cheat always a cheat?” And while I had heard that expression and figured it was true, the fact is, until I became a chump and landed here, I had NO idea HOW true. Should Blew NC have been an OW? No. Full stop. Bad choice. Not cool. But I can see how she may have simply believed him, that he was in a horrible marriage and was having trouble getting out because that ol’ battle axe wife of his was sure to destroy him and take everything if he left. We are all pissed because the same BS was said about US, and we have all seen every version of it written here. (Sometimes I masochistically wish that I could know exactly what my FW said to his AP. I know he didn’t tell her I was a cruel battle axe, but he must have told her something and I highly doubt it was the truth, “she is a loyal and devoted wife that gives me my way in everything even at her own detriment”)
But out there in the world, I think people are less likely to see through those lies. (Which isn’t to say “so it’s fine she became his affair partner since she naively believed his wife was awful” but I just think we are all experts (sadly) and not everyone is privy to the fact that cheats all use the same manual. I don’t blame her for believing him. I think a lot of people do not know better.
I don’t encourage her to reach out to the first wife. I see why it’s been suggested. And sure, in 20 years maybe I would get a smile out of hearing the AP in my situation got cheated on by my ex. But I feel like it is more likely that the ex wife would NOT want to hear from the OW 2 decades later. She hopefully is living her best life and may not appreciate the intrusion. And the apology would seem so phony to me “Now that I too have experienced firsthand what a deep betrayal it is to be cheated on, NOW I am sorry that I was a tool that helped your ex husband do this to you”
Unless I misread, the husband may not be a sadist. He may be the one who enjoys being tortured. If I were Blew NC, I wouldn’t be asking for clarification because I doubt she wants any details on his current kinks. But I think if he is actually the tortured vs torturer, it sounds less dangerous for Blew NC. (Also, I don’t know anything about the BDSM lifestyle, but I don’t know that the consenting non cheating adults in that lifestyle are necessarily any more dangerous than other people? Though I suppose if Blew NC doesn’t know for sure what is going on there, better safe than sorry)
Every time a cheater justifies cheating by saying they had a “terrible marriage,” an angel loses his wings.
It’s infuriating.
At lunch the other day, an acquaintance of mine said that her sister had an affair but it was ok because “his marriage was on the rocks.” 😡
Another friend told me that his brother had an affair, but it was because his wife was “frigid.”
Frigid my ass!
Or maybe she wasn’t feeling the hots for her husband because he was dumping cold water on her by eyeing and subsequently sleeping with other women.
For any APs or cheaters on this site, please know that we understand that some marriages go south. But having an affair is never ok. Do the honorable thing: have the hard conversations with your partner to seek therapy or a divorce. NEVER buy a “terrible marriage” as an excuse to have an affair.
“Or maybe she wasn’t feeling the hots for her husband because he was dumping cold water on her by eyeing and subsequently sleeping with other women.”
Meant to add, that I am sure in the year of discard I started pulling away, and that is because he started snarling and verbally striking at me like a snake. I even asked what was wrong, and he said “work stress” I just need space. So I pulled back and gave him space. He used that space to fuck the whore with abandon, and spend a ton of our money on servicing his dick.
Yep, I remember looking at my husband and asking “did you talk bad about me to her” he said and I quote “what was I supposed to tell her? my wife is great that is why I am here with you”.
It is exactly what they have to say, even an idiot that would knowingly “date” a married man is likely not to accept second line, which is most likely the truth. It is soooo much easier to deceive a trusting and faithful spouse than one who is suspicious and more like the cheater.
Wow, what a cliche! I dont understand how women fall for the BS? Did their mothers teach them anything about men?
I feel bad for the kid having 2 dopey parents. Hopefully there are some good relatives who can fill in the gaps.
I saw an interview with a marriage counselor in which she was asked how many second chances a cheater should get. The answer was, “One”.
Putting aside your status as a former affair partner, you are looking at the wrong things. You say you don’t know what you want from him. How about money?? You should be going after the money he owes you. Thousands! He owes you thousands! He stole from your mother! So get the lawyer focused on getting your money back.
You know from experience he’s a cheater. And I hope you have learned that taking up with a cheater just makes you the next in line. Now you know he’s a liar and a thief and a man who likes to hurt women.
You don’t need other information. He’s a bad man. Your job now is to fix your own character for the sake of your son.