What You Thought It Was, What It Really Was

what you thought it was

How many times do we write “tip of the iceberg” around here? When faced with a D-Day, chumps never get the full picture. And, fact is, many years out, you realize “the whole truth” is unknowable with a cheater. There are skeletons you will never unearth. Meh is walking away from the shovel.

But I thought it would be a useful exercise — especially valuable to new chumps, or any hopeful reconcilers who dare to wander to this site (Abandon Hopium All Ye Who Enter!) — to write down what you THOUGHT you knew, versus what it actually was.

I’m not talking about a long recitation of your D-Days, or meditations on “trickle truth.” I just want the stark facts — the one-two punch of reality.

Here’s me.

What I thought it was:

D-Day — I thought (because I was told) it was an indiscretion with an old-girlfriend before we married. I thought he was sorry, and I was a brave, loving woman who was going to see us through this crisis together.

What it was:

Serial cheating throughout three marriages. He’d never had a faithful day since I met him. The OW was not a one-off — she was a long-term OW, dating back to his FIRST marriage. (Yeah, a 20 year affair, at that point…) And they had a kid. And she wasn’t the only OW by a long shot. Dude was a pathological liar, a personality disorder, a total fraud.

Boy, this is a cheery exercise! But the point is, newbies — be skeptical in those early days. You rarely have the whole picture. ICEBERG AHEAD!

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Beetle
Beetle
6 years ago

He had more girlfriends than I imagined. Looking back on 26 years of marriage I believe he cheated the whole time.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
6 years ago

I thought it was a few women.

It was actually hundreds of people of all genders and ages down to mid teens, including a teen in my family.

Micha
Micha
6 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

What I thought it was: on Dday I saw click “like”on a Facebook pic titled The Ideal Woman (a picture of my exact opposite).
What it really was: a series of private messages on Facebook with multiple local women – all of them known to us through friends, work, etc. – telling them we were separated (news to me, I thought we were happy). Worse yet, he was using gross pick-up lines on them like “I saw you in town last weekend in your pretty little sundress and wanted to kidnap you on the spot.” Ugh, did I really not know what a slime ball he was?

TimeHeals
TimeHeals
6 years ago
Reply to  Micha

Kidnapping? And what? Take her home and keep her in a box in the basement?

At least there is an implied threat, I guess.

brandib
brandib
6 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

OMG! There are no words…

mil23
mil23
6 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

That is so so vile!!!!!!

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Chump Lady,

I’m not sure I can face the rest of the iceberg. I’m still reeling from the ship sinking & trying to stay afloat with so many ice floes banging into me. I guess my husband if 35 years was banging around too.

BTW, he OFTEN would say that he “had never cheated” on me. I assumed it was a given. He said it so often that I came to wonder MORE, not less. Sort of like reminding me that he had not punched me in the face. But his cheating & bragging on FB about it, sure feels like a punch in the face.

Mhmc
Mhmc
6 years ago

I asked mine flat out if there was someone else. He said “I have always been faithful”… Well, while we were still married i found an email to one of the other women that said, “I love you more than anyone Ive ever been with, and thats the truth!”. She was married with four kids and things ended between them, and a couple months later i find out theres another one- all WHILE we were still married. Once divorce was final he invited the ow to his apartment with my kids there, and banged her with my teenager HEARING them in the next room! They have NO conscience!

Tahitibound
Tahitibound
6 years ago

Hi Doctor’s 1st Wife & Kids,

I too was a Dr.’s first wife with kids, lol. I thought he started cheating on me once I was diagnosed with breast cancer and went through treatment, because he said so much. Later as I was searching for an email from Craigslist to sell the kids play structure, I stumbled upon a series of emails between the honorable Dr. and Craigslist hook ups dating years before my diagnosis. By then I had kicked him out of the house and when I mentioned it to him on the phone there was just silence. Bleech.

MJB
MJB
6 years ago
Reply to  Tahitibound

Another doctor’s former wife here too. Nothing more attractive to a nut case than MD after someone’s name. He used to say he could tell the ‘crazy eyes’. I bet he could.

His ‘friends’ were narcissists too. He would complain about how his two friends were difficult and didn’t care about others like he did. Now I know he used them as a measurement of how he was a better kind of narc. But now I know, he was still a narc.

It Is What It Is
It Is What It Is
6 years ago
Reply to  Tahitibound

Raising my hand as yet another Dr.’s first wife and the mother of his four children. We could probably have a very large subset of chumps formally married to cheater doctors, that God complex and all! Mine announced he wanted a divorce after 23 years because he wasn’t happy and “I Had killed our Love” 10 years previous when we had moved to his home town next to his intrusive, narcissistic mother and I was understandably unhappy about the situation. At the time of his bomb drop, we had been living in another state away from his mother for over 7 years and I was loving it. So I begged for him to let me fix whatever he thought was wrong. I did the pick me dance for over two years. During that time I found out about the complex double life he had of swingers clubs, hookers, escorts, 900 number hook ups, Asian massage happy endings, and finally an affair with a nurse he found on Match who lived in the next town. Other doctor wives know about his final affair partner but no one told me.

Funny how my husband never mentioned any of his infidelity when he first announced he wanted a divorce and was “unhappy”. His final affair partner was probably getting eager for the doctor’s wife life. She has it now as his wifetress and she is welcome to it. She now has the gift of him and his cold, sociopathic shark eyed stare. She has no idea the depths of his disorder, but I do and finally got free! Tip of the iceberg indeed.

Perfectlife
Perfectlife
6 years ago

“Sociopath shark eyed stare”.

I so relate…

My husband now has the “weirdest eyes”. It’s creepy. They are small, cold, and lifeless.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

Mine has those eyes too and such a beautiful blue- I used to think they were his best feature.

Who knew talking about the sexual escapades of coworkers was a red flag. E.g.”business partner has sex with one of the married secretaries in a work van at lunch.” The list goes on and on. I thought it was disgusting. Now, I think he found it exciting and while not exactly, he did similar things.

I heard him tell one of our neighbors with whom he was in an unspoken completion that his job was great. He could sit on his phone with his feet on the desk while his attractive secretary gave him a foot massage and the money rolled in. Neighbor was a dentist.

That secretary is mil’s girl Friday. I wonder if she would approve of how they speak of her. She is as much a part of the family as I was. One wrong step…

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

Same here. Can’t look me in the eye either, not that I would ever get close enough to him or let him.
Fucker lost the right and privilege of my gaze.

brit
brit
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

Know those eyes well, dull, expressionless. Like looking into the eye of a reptile.

Mom Of The Good Guys
Mom Of The Good Guys
6 years ago

Mine was in medical school when we met, got together, and had our daughter. So, I guess I’m a member of this club that nobody wants to be in, too.

He’s a successful, respected doctor now, and at least as of a few years ago, I had reliable sources telling me that he was still at it in a big way, as far as cheating on his current wife, (who seems like a good person.) Our daughter reported to me a few years ago that they were actually thinking of separating, but I haven’t heard anything lately regarding that status or outcome.

So, to answer the question posed by CL:

What I thought I had: A hardworking guy making sacrifices for our eventual secure future.

What I actually had: A nascent serial cheater who believed his own press and decided to screw around with a nursing student as I was in the hospital, recovering from the birth of his baby girl.

(I did get an amazing daughter out of the whole experience, I must say!)

doctorwifeofcheatingdoctor
doctorwifeofcheatingdoctor
6 years ago

tip of iceberg:
doctor who i made what he is through the lean years and had three kids for( hence 4 years behind him career wise) dumps me for slutty single parent goldigging whore of a secretary just before my final exams and hides all the money without a roof over our heads. Whilst he crafted his exit strategy which involved – its all your fault for working too hard – i left 12 years of training behind to keep family together to find out he was shagging his secretary in 5*hotels
Iceberg – yet to be revealed; may never be, I suspect now serial cheater – so many – i would never cheat, the kids would never forgive me; i would never cheat i work so much theres no time hahah; what the secretary ? no way; her hair is a mess.
9 months later he fronts up with a serious case of GINR, which mostly involves – you have to change the way you are; its not as simple as whether i like you or not. apparently in his words” it was harder for me to fire her than break up with you ” boo hoo. kids all under six. no financial security or house. i am in deep doo doo. and yes . now everything seems different. i may also have been in love by myself. i miss the life i thought i had.
Strange how society will see him as respected attending with a bit of a roving eye but that hard nosed bitch won’t take him back. besides there must be something a bit not right with her – must have been terrible in the sack. probably a bit crazy too.
And there is no fucking disney movies or tv shows with awesome mothers and happy families – my oldest however is an empath it seems and immediately identified in Sing how that cheating porcupine was a real prick (sorry!) and she was better off without him .
rant over

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago

Hello Doctors1stWives& Kids

We had lean as shit years due to Dr. Narkles FIRST career as a veterinarian and we lived in a trailer and ate goat meat (I swear). THEN I went to law school as per the plan AND had our first child, “Prematurely” by years. THEN the good animal DOCTOR had to attend more schooling… Our family has always gently praised/joked about our “goat meat” days, which DOCTOR Narkles now says “were normal. ALL couples start out poor.” NOT below the poverty level for 7 years…

Here’s my real problem, 1) that after all the years of deferred gratification and denial, OW gets to live my life AND he has hidden and boldly just taken our joint money.

SO I feel terrified for my financial future.

And second, what I saw was intelligence and hard work but I mistook that for character. Apparently he was miserable for “years” and “this was coming for a long time.” WTF???

He cut our youngest off of college tuition in her junior year, and has not spoken to our older kids for 8 months after they said there were “not ready to meet OW”, whom he posts on fb about. Calls her his “love of his life” and we were married 35 years…

It literally is making me sick. I want to be happy and have romantic love in my life again. Now I wonder if I was in love all by myself.

brit
brit
6 years ago

Well, I’m a pilot’s first wife, stayed by his side and supported him throughout our lean years.
X would come back from a trip and tell me stories of other married pilots who would mess around. He’d then proceed to tell me how lucky I was to be married to such an honest man, a man of integrity.
There came a time when my intuition was telling be something different.
I asked him if he had been with some one, he’d laugh and tell me I had quite the imagination, I needed a hobby, he wasn’t that kind of guy.
I brushed those feelings of doubt aside trusting, trusting I married someone who was a devoted to our marriage and me.
I was devastated to find out I not only married a cheater but a liar and a thief.
I’ve never known anyone so devious.

Vastra
Vastra
6 years ago

I’m another Doctor’s first wife (I’m a doctor also). There’s still a lot of fawning and adoration for male doctors in some fields – especially surgery. Mine also repeatedly told me repeatedly how ethical and decent he was, unlike his colleagues. All his secretaries adore him, although fortunately the head physio in their department saw through his “I’m so unhappy, we separated and then I met this lovely young single mum” immediately. OW loves money & labels but she has won the dubious prize of a cheating husband.

DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
DOCTOR's1stWife&Kids
6 years ago
Reply to  Tahitibound

Tahitibound

Hard to know which is worse, the gut wrenching doubts about the whole marriage, OR the cliched nature of this.

I don’t want to be a cliche. This sucks. I’m having trouble sleeping and I feel paralyzed by this so often. My husband has hidden the marital money and I’m broke so he may get away with a lot of this. And he’s abandoned our kids, which baffles me even more than his anger at ME! (WTF? Why is HE angry at ME?)

Will he ever rebuild the relationships with our kids? And How are you doing now?

DrFormerChump
DrFormerChump
6 years ago

“I don’t want to be a cliche.” YOU are not a clique. The Cheater Physician who can’t keep his dick in his pants? There’s your cliche.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
6 years ago

Lawyers1stWife With 4 kids here—-

Almost 3 years since DDay 1 and abandonment of our kids and telling them he “hated every minute of being a father” — no effort to rebuild anything. ????????????????????. Kids were desperate — 2 suicidal, other two with panic attacks. Everyone is ok for today but we will never be the same.
I despised him — he conned me fully for 25 years.

LiveForToday
LiveForToday
6 years ago

I am glad you got a great settlement. Does not make it right what your X did to you and your kids but certainly helps. Power on Mother!

Tahitibound
Tahitibound
6 years ago

Hi Doctor’s1stwifeandkids,

The good news is two years out and finally divorced, I’m doing great. He never stop communicating with his college age son, because they share a similar detached personality. His daughter called him a middle-age sleazebag and barely talked to him for a year and a half. She broke down and started communicating with him when he threaten not to give her an allowance. I know in the long term it’s better that she has a relationship with him.
It’s sad that the kids have to have a father like this, but they really seem to be doing OK. And talking about the cliché my dad is in almost 90-year-old doctor, still practicing and I found injectable erectile dysfunction medication with syringes is in his office refrigerator. You can’t make this stuff up. I don’t know maybe it’s the God complex that doctors have . My mom is in such deep denial that I don’t even discuss it with her. I’m just thankful that we’re in an era where women don’t have to suffer, and we can actually move on. And I’m dating a guy who would never in his wildest imagination cheat on somebody because he feels he would never want someone to do that to him. And I trust him because my friends have known him for 30 years and they know he’s a standup guy. That was something that was hard for me to wrap my head around that not all men cheat. And I’m happy to report they not all of them cheat and they actually care about your emotions!!!

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago

Why does he blame you? Because the narcissist sees himself as above mistakes. They never take the blame for anything so you guessed it, it is your fault and he is angry at you. In his eyes, it is also your fault that he doesn’t have a good relationship with the kids. Let’s face it, everything is your fault and you are the target of his anger.

We need the bumper sticker: Things not going your way, just blame a chump!

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
6 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yep. Wife 3 or 4 or something was so young, she needed mom’s permission. Really repulsive.

LongingForMeh-ca
LongingForMeh-ca
6 years ago
Reply to  Amiisfree

Gagging! Wow, Amiisfree…what a reality nightmare! You are mighty, indeed.

ChumpedToTheMax
ChumpedToTheMax
6 years ago

What I thought it was:

A long distance emotional affair with his old girlfriend from 20 years ago. Even though he had gone to Europe, supposedly to visit my son who live in Germany for his birthday, he stayed with his cousin in Koln, an hour away from where my son lived. The X said he saw her but didn’t sleep with her. I actually felt sorry for him, thinking he was caught in a Facebook driven emotional affair.

What it really was:
The X had been carrying on a last distance affair that led to a romantic romp on a cruise ship with his X just before our 20 year anniversary and the trip to Germany, which was also a sex filled week. This led to other affairs coming out of the woodwork, neighbors, coworkers, 20 years of lies and abuse…I don’t believe in emotional affairs, or one time affairs, or the Easter bunny anymore.

ThatGirl
ThatGirl
6 years ago

Yeah. Emotional affairs are just affairs that got exposed before the logistics for fucking could be worked out. One time cheaters are those that were unlucky enough to get caught the first time or those proficient enough at lying that they completely covered up the previous times.

chump-tastic
chump-tastic
6 years ago

“I don’t believe in emotional affairs, or one time affairs, or the Easter bunny anymore.”

Wow, THIS. Matchy tattoos, anyone?

Thankful
Thankful
6 years ago
Reply to  chump-tastic

The matching tattoos when they are just “friend” is a massive giveaway.

A friend watched her husband emotionally attach himself to a close friend of hers, while the friends husband just accepted that they were all good friends, My friend called her husband on it and he opted marriage over. he got a girlfriend but was still emotionally connected to the other woman. Finally her husband called it quits, he flicked the girlfriend and the two announced their relationship. Her husband had swallowed this shit sandwich for at least three years that I know of. He was so glad to be rid of his wife on the day he moved out he helped his so-called friend move in. Their living together lasted a month, during that time the crazy bitch held a garage sale selling all of his stuff and when he moved out had nothing and had to start from scratch, but sadly is still hanging on to their special love. And the matching tattoos.

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
6 years ago
Reply to  Thankful

Funny! One whole month?

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
6 years ago
Reply to  chump-tastic

The tattoo parlour has a line up.
I will bring pies.

Now, just where to put my tattoo,
maybe over my broken heart!

Sorry not sorry
Sorry not sorry
6 years ago
Reply to  chump-tastic

Love this. Me either. Makes it hard to believe in Santa too.

Vastra
Vastra
6 years ago

Ugh.. the “emotional affair” claim is dodgy isn’t it? Mine admitted to a 2 year emotional affair prior to OW, and I now interpret that to mean “I had a physical affair but there’s no proof”. Same with a friend’s husband who got caught texting his OW about their hot sex, then claimed it was one-off. It sounded so preposterously unlikely but she wanted to believe him.

Mjo
Mjo
6 years ago

He said he was leaving ME because he was sick of our relationship of not getting along. What he didn’t tell me was there was a woman in waiting he had befriended at the gym and told our problems to.

toolatenowforlove
toolatenowforlove
6 years ago
Reply to  Mjo

my ex told me he wasn’t going to her, he just had to leave me, because of a list of my flaws (whilst telling other people how much he loved her). She is 25 years younger, no kids, never had a full time job ( I worked for all the 40 years of our marriage). They are now married and he is sooooo happy. I have had to start my life over at 61, believing that I was the worst wife in the world ( but work in a caring profession, and have very close friends- they have none, just each other, so am I so awful?). 3 years post discard, I am still in counselling, self worth lower than a snake’s bottom…..

Roger
Roger
6 years ago

Have faith in the lord,you are stronger than you know.

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  Mjo

Funny that.

The telling the OW all our problems.

Mine even had the nerve to say that Shmoopie had encouraged him to “talk to me about it.” IE – all the bitching he was doing behind my back. But never had the guts to tell me to my face. Even when I asked him if he was happy, or if we could do things differently. Coward.

liveformyday
liveformyday
6 years ago
Reply to  Mjo

Mine too. Problem was our 18 yr old daughter had been in hospital for 6 months after devastating car accident. A month home and he wanted out. Told me it was all about us and how we didn’t agree on things. Haven’t loved you for several years… blah blah blah. Then realized after all his changes and finding a sexy card hidden, he was seeing a CoWorker telling her all his problems… they’ve been together since and are now getting married. D lives with me and is paralyzed and I take care of her. He walked away for someone without any baggage (no kids never been married great job and 401K
)… Yep I could tell a lot of stories of what I thought was happening and what really was happening. Its embarrassing. I was such a chump.

Mjo
Mjo
6 years ago
Reply to  liveformyday

What a low-life. Who does stuff like that? How have you been managing emotionally? I know there’s no time limit on healing. For me it’s been two years. Sometimes I still feel the shock. Because I never thought he would do that. AND being left for another when they want out, does that qualify as infidelity? Do I have that right to hurt so much?

mally
mally
6 years ago
Reply to  liveformyday

Omg, what is it with these guys taking no responsibility for their own kids, especially when the kid is sick? Our daughter has epilepsy and suffers from seizures especially at night. My stbxh, on discovering I was filing for divorce, went on about him keeping the house for 3 hours and took 3 days to question where our daughter would live before finally stating ‘shes your responsibility now’.
Then, a few days later when daughter was having a fit in her sleep, he totally ignored her and came and got me to deal.with it. He walked past her room knowing she was mid fit, and fucking ignored her. He has since done this on two more occasions. His own daughter. What a sleaze bag. Luckily we have finally been able to move out and away from this asshat.

carmella1722
carmella1722
6 years ago
Reply to  liveformyday

Special place in hell……

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
6 years ago
Reply to  liveformyday

Walking out on his own daughter? (not to mention his caring wife, who actually has a heart beating)
He is truly sub-human.
Tell your daughter there are people over here who love her, give her a kiss and hug from CN. ❤️

mil23
mil23
6 years ago
Reply to  liveformyday

How disgusting that he walked out while you cared for your sick daughter! So so vile! You are so much better than him and better off w/o him!!!!

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
6 years ago
Reply to  liveformyday

liveformyday,
I have to say that you are an amazing person.
Beyond Mighty!

(((((((((Many many hugs to you and your precious Daughter))))))

(Your cheater is so below you, there are simply no words for him).

kmanning
kmanning
6 years ago

I thought my X was depressed, anxious, and struggling to function.

What I learned is that he used online porn daily, cheated via online hookup sites, and used escort services. Those are the things I can prove.

What I can’t prove is that he was the source for t a terrible uterine infection I had when my son was a toddler. Not until we were going through the divorce did my (ever-loving, supportive) sister raise that question to me.

Current hump
Current hump
6 years ago
Reply to  kmanning

Yup-THIS!!!
I thought my X was depressed, anxious, and struggling to function.
What I learned is that he used online porn excessively on the daily, cheated via online hookup sites, and used escort services AND Asian massage parlors. Those are the things I can prove.

So glad that I don’t have that concern or worry anymore

Lifeisgood
Lifeisgood
6 years ago
Reply to  kmanning

i kept getting bacterial infections – BV. (Which typically come with new partners introducing new flora). I’d never gotten it before him. Spontaneous amniotic sac break at 34 weeks due to reoccurring infection. It was weird to get them – i was faithful but now know the likely source was him.

Messed around on me the entire marriage. Even while I was pregnant.

Justdonejess
Justdonejess
6 years ago
Reply to  Lifeisgood

Same here. He had unprotected sex with his boss and then came home to me. My water broke at 34 weeks with our second child. The placenta was apparently infected. I had no explanation why this would happen to a healthy woman with no history of chronic infection. Now I know.

Sunrise
Sunrise
6 years ago
Reply to  Lifeisgood

Lightbulb! There was a stretch of a few years when we weren’t having sex much. I attributed that to the kids being young and a handful. But I was having UTI, yeast infections, and bad “flora” often. A few years later, when things were better and we were having sex regularly, no problems. Then the problems started up again our last year together, a time when I know he was cheating.

He had cheated on me years before- it just took until today to figure it out.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Sunrise

Another chump raising her hand! Oh the uti’s and yeast infections. Only now connecting the dots. Tip of the iceberg no doubt.

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
6 years ago
Reply to  kmanning

Me too. Maybe all of us?
We were in our 20’s, married a short time, and all the time I got these blasted UTI’s! I never considered cheating, we were in love! I know now, decades later, who he was with, several girls, bringing home their microbes to me, and my body did not like it! A couple of our male friends told me, when they knew I was leaving him. Jerks, male code of secrecy, I guess. One of them told me he thought I knew, and just accepted it, Aaargh!!! Too bad nobody came to me, and let me know.

Soldiering On
Soldiering On
6 years ago
Reply to  FreeWoman

Sigh. There’s a reason for condoms. Too bad we didn’t know we were screwing everyone that he’d ever screwed as well as their other lovers. EWWWW.

My mom was right: you never know where they’ve been.

Kelly
Kelly
6 years ago
Reply to  kmanning

Wow, you just connected another dot for me. When I first started sleeping with my now ex husband I got the worst UTIs. They just kept coming. My gyno put me on a low dose of antibiotics to take for after sex only. Here I thought it was me but most likely something he was up to. Gross!

2days19hrs
2days19hrs
6 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

I used to get BV a lot and yeast infections.

Been divorced since July 2016, stopped unprotected sex early 2016.
No more infections. Ever.

Perfectlife
Perfectlife
6 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

I too was put on low dose antibiotics “nitrofurin” to take after sex. I now have knowndoubt that all of the infections I have had for more than 20 years are completely due to my monster husband’s infidelity. I indured so much pain and medical problems because of him and his sickness. He began choking be the last year….I will never be the same. My kids just think I am crazy and their dad was justified in leaving me …and don’t even seem to register that he cheated on me. After all—I was so crazy that he HAD to cheat. It’s a nightmare that I can’t wake up from. His endless prostitutes, Craigslist and Backpage hookups…..no one will ever know about those. The sexual abuse and horrific abuse to me…I feel like he just keeps “winning” with his lies and bullshit. Meanwhile the Sunday school teacher who loves children, family, and kittens – well I am crazy.

TaraBelle
TaraBelle
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

PerfectLife,
Many hearts and hugs to you. It would be terrible if your ex had a face fire, and someone put it out with an axe.
Stay strong. You got this!

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
6 years ago
Reply to  TaraBelle

Dear PerfectLife,
I just want to add more love and hugs along with those expressed to you by so many other Chumps on this site. I have become familiar with so many and to me they are like family.
It is sad that you had the reasons to come to CN, but please know you are respected and loved. You are safe here.
We got your back. We believe in you and are on your side.
Follow your Chump Family’s advice, stay safe, and always be kind to yourself.
You did nothing wrong.
It is not who you are, it is who he isn’t!

Love to you and your Children,
Peacekeeper

KathleenK
KathleenK
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

Why won’t people know? Why don’t you tell your story?

Perfectlife
Perfectlife
6 years ago
Reply to  KathleenK

How do you tell the story that your husband who everyone thinks is such a good guy is a disgusting pervert and has been sexually abusive to you for more than20 years? He is so good at this act of his that he had me completely fooled for so many years. I was convinced I was crazy and a terrible person and so lucky to have him. His masked slipped when I found out a small part of his secret and I put him on the spot- and when it did– I got really, really scared. He is a cold emotionless selfish narcissists who is completely delusional. He accepts no blame and tells everyone that I am crazy. How do you “tell your story” without destroying your kids? We live in such a small town and have been very active- the perfect family with amazing kids. I have only told a few very trusted people my story. And, only his sisters (who know his tried self) about the sexual abuse. No one else, but my lawyer knows even a little of that. I know I have to stop reliving all of this. I want to divorce him and get rid of as many reminders as possible.

Polly
Polly
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

I am not so sure everyone thinks he is as wonderful as you assume they do. Even if they do, enough people are gossipy hens that they will be overjoyed to see someone fall off their high horse. If someone asks you why your marriage didn’t work out, a simple straight forward “I uncovered x number of affairs and endured emotional abuse for decades.”

I am positive a bunch of people have his number, you’re just afraid they won’t believe you. You don’t need to keep his secrets if you don’t want to.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Polly

Perfect life, my heart breaks for you. Give yourself grace and lots of it. The dam has burst and the water is still gushing.

My cheater left in June 2016 and it took until November for me to have the courage to start going to church with my kids. The support of a friend and the priest got me there and it has been the biggest blessing in my life. In the meantime keep praying, and figure out who your trusted friends truly are. Keep coming here to know that you are not crazy and you are not alone. Many have walked this road

Obvious to me and others but maybe not to you is the fact that you have amazing strength. To get yourself to a lawyer and file for divorce while a hysterectomy is looming is incredible. Hell, an open surgery hysterectomy is one of the most difficult and you don’t do it for the fun of it. You do it because those organs are seriously malfunctioning and it is the last option!

These fuckwits don’t get it. They take everything and I mean everything as being about them and that you are doing this to inconvenious them. It is preposterous and you even if you point that out, they still do not get it!
Others will get their selfishness but it is the rare person that hasn’t been through it that actually understands your pain. When you find those people, hug them, appreciate them and hold fast. .
You are strong, you will survive, and you will be a better, happier person.

Change your self talk. You are at the beginning of overcoming years of abuse. I am not at meh but a year later I believe I can get there some day.

P.s. It is not what you tell your kids, it is what you show them.

KathleenK
KathleenK
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

Perfect life, your story is really haunting me. First of all please take really good care of yourself as you heal from your hysterectomy. I carried some pretty shocking secrets for a full two years before I felt empowered enough to use my voice. My therapist helped me a lot. She helped me understand that if my kids don’t know what happened in their house during their entire childhood then they too feel betrayed and gaslighted. Please consider telling a few more people who you feel certain will validate you and believe you . Please consider telling your kids a bit more of the truth in an age appropriate way. This is very typical – the chump keeps the cheater’s secrets and the kids gravitate toward the cheater because he makes more sense – they see you being super upset (and rightfully so!) but they don’t know why so they accept the cheater version of events. Please disregard what I say if you are afraid for your safety. A good therapist can help you with this – it is really difficult to wrap your head around this stuff. I am almost 4 years out from Dday and am starting to feel very strong and very much on the road to meh. You aren’t alone perfect life! (((Hugs))))

Perfectlife
Perfectlife
6 years ago
Reply to  KathleenK

Thank you all for the words of support and advise! I wake up in the middle of the night with intrusive thoughts and reading your replies this morning has helped so much. I feel really alone and have such anxiety and fear that I don’t go anywhere. I have become very isolated. He has worked on me for several years — I was once very outgoing and full of life and energy and happiness. Somehow, he has destroyed all my confidence and made me lose my big engaging life. I always felt he was envious of me and the last 3 or 4 years seemed to hate me. Now, I know he did hate me. I just don’t get how you hate and mistreat someone who arranges birthday parties for your 90 year old grandmother and is good to you and your children…… I can’t understand this kind of person. I just feel crushed and sickened. Being in this group is probably one of the most helpful things I have done so far. I am seeing a counselor which has helped, but I don’t want to be here anymore. He has ruined every places for me and so many of the things I loved doing. My dad passed away 18 years ago and my
Mom has never been a good part of my life and now lives in a nursing home. His parents were my parents- and now I don’t have any contact with them either. Going to my church of 24 years is too hard, so I have lost contact with almost everyone there which is huge loss emotionally and spiritually. My son is so hurt that he can’t seem to stand being in our house now which is enormous and so empty with all my kids gone away to college. Ik ow exactly how he feels. I am losing my life bit by bit and I can’t seem to stop the landslide. I feel as though he has killed me my inside person and my body just has laid down and accepted it. How can one human being steal someone’s entire life from them? I don’t know how to get better, but reading the advise and stories is helping me to see that there is hope for ” better”.

Roberta
Roberta
6 years ago
Reply to  KathleenK

Perfect Life, can you get your lawyer to have a judge sign off on an order for your STBX to leave you alone until you get your final check up from your Dr? I had the same problem and my divorce was put on hold until I had a final check up from my doctor and I was deemed healthy and healed.

Micha
Micha
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

He’s a pig Perfectlife, and you deserve better. This kind of attack on our character, the lies about us behind our back, are just crazy making. I had to learn to forgive myself for going batshit on him- I’m still ashamed of letting him see me lose it- but I remind myself that my reaction was normal response to his narc tactics. You’re not the bad guy here Perfectlife. Hugs to you & prayers that the flying monkeys ???? your x has recruited get a clue and turn on him.

Perfectlife
Perfectlife
6 years ago
Reply to  Micha

Thank you, Micha. I needed something affirming and positive—I am at such a low point right now. Dday April 14th, so 4.5 months out and hysterectomy 2 weeks ago. My youngest child moved out for college as well and had a complete meltdown last night. I just cannot seem to do anything to make things better. He told me his dad was telling him that I am crazy and dragging the divorce out. I told my son that I cannot control the Kansas Court system any more than I can control his dad! What am supposed to do?! We own a huge house and I have 25 years of stuff to go through to get it ready to sell and I cannot lift or bend right now. Somehow I need to make all the practical and realities just go away while his dad is off “hiking” for the holiday weekend. I am drowning and it’s seems like his trying to hold my head under and my poor son is just angry and upset. What man sits in church with his family for 24 years of marriage – in the same church we married in- and professes to be a good man and a Christian, then just goes down to the corner of Tyler and Douglass and pays $100 for an 18 year old hooker or meets one of my adult students at a seedy motel and gets kicks from knowing she is my student!? It’s the sickest thing imaginable and I need to move on! I wish I could just disappear and never come back here or see him again.

Regina
Regina
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

Perfectlife; You will need to rest after that surgery and will not feel up to that kind of work for awhile. (even if things were going well in your life). What a loser he is!

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

So sorry for you perfect life! I bet he is blaming you for needing a hysterectomy- mine did. At a mere 4 months out and he is blaming you for dragging it out. I am 15 months out and probably 6 months to a year away from divorce unless cheater stops digging his heals in at every turn. We live in a very fast paced area.

Tell your son it was not your choice to be in this situation. Stay as sane as possible and hopefully he will get it. The cheaters really don’t change and their masks do continue to slip.

Hugs- sorry you are a victim.

Perfectlife
Perfectlife
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

I only filled 8 weeks ago. He’s been after me since week 3 to hurry things along. I finslky able to get my kids to understand that I had to have this surgery which was planned for a long time, but postponed because of the discoveries I made concerning his double identity. He has emailed me every week to “hurry” this along….like I am trying to hold it up! I don’t know what power he thinks I have over a court system that I have never ever been involved in. His lawyer did not even reply to my lawyer after insisting I needed to go to court. He told my husband to just pay what HE thought he should have to pay and basically ignore what the temporary order said. I don’t understand how he can do that! Now, there is supposed to be a settlement offer, but “poof!” Nothing. Not a word for over a week from his lawyer about what the settlement is. I can’t figure out what my husband thinks our finances will be better after the divorce. We will still have the same debt and the same income! I think he thinks he will not have to help me and can just dump this big mortgage on me. I make 47k and he makes 100k, so ya I get why he wants to hurry things along…more money for hookers and weird crap. But, the bank who owns our mortgage isn’t going to let him just walk away from this debt and responsibility and neither am I!

Perfectlife
Perfectlife
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

He tried to take me to court the week after my hysterectomy over a few hundred dollars which he knows is the difference between me having groceries or not. He makes 100k a year and has his money and spent money on countless ECCIE prostitutes. I even have the “reviews” he has given them online, so I know how much he spent, what he did with them, where, when, and their “provider names and descriptions”. He even gave them critiques on their bodies- which is so inbelievably arrogant!! He’s bald, overweight, and has severs stomach scars. Yet, he very arrogantly critiques these women for having slight stretch marks or a “little tummy”! I think either my kids or his mother convinced him to not take me into court for $250 a month 6 days after my surgery! He’s an enormous jackass!

QueenMother
QueenMother
6 years ago
Reply to  Feelingit

Perfectlife, when you can, when you are recovered physically, and can sell the house, move the hell out of that city. From your letter, I know what city you live in. The city of both the Koch brothers and BTK.

Bad shit. I moved away from there, and my new city is not near as scary.

MJB
MJB
6 years ago
Reply to  Perfectlife

Ah PerfectLife, it’s the old mindfuck getting to you. Please be patient with yourself and go through the stages of grief nescessary to move on to that happy, cheater free life.

My ex was screwing around with our daughter’s 20-something assistant soccer coach (2nd schmoopie in our 20 years together). One of the warning signs he was at it again was him sneaking off to our church to attend service without me. There are several different masses on Saturdays and Sundays and we would rotate around depending on our teenagers schedules. He was going to pray, I guess, about what he should do about them there twu wuvs he was feeling and didn’t need a pesky old wife in the way.

We work in the same corporation and everyone thinks he’s such a ‘great guy’. Yep sure is unless you’re married to him. All I can do is keep my head held high and suppress my desire to out him to everyone in a 20 mile radius. Our kids, close friends, and my family know what really happened. That’s all I need to move on. The kids have been through enough.

Just keep being you. That’s the best advice I can give. Keep being you and the normal, sane parent for your son. Let cheater dick do whatever he’s doing and don’t let him or his actions get under your skin. My kids do spend some time with their dad now, but they get it. Sometimes when dad is trying to get to me through them, my son will say ‘mom you know how dad is’. They get it. Your son will too.

You have to feel the pain. You have to go no contact. I kept hearing ‘take care of yourself’ and I really didn’t even know what that meant. I have been giving so long, I don’t feel normal doing stuff for me. That’s okay. Just be and it will come. Eat good. Get some exercise. Let the pain come. And try to sleep.

It really does get better. I didn’t believe that either initially. Prayers and hugs to you. Come here often.

Perfectlife
Perfectlife
6 years ago
Reply to  MJB

MJB, thank you for the good advise. I keep telling myself, “be the sane parent”. But, he made me a emotional disaster at the point of suicide. It will take years for my kids to see that I am the sane parent! Sane people are hurt and wounded by gaslighting, abuse and manipulation. Crazy people do what these cheaters do! I guess I just need be in a marathon with my truth and not a sprint with his crazy narcissism. I know that my kids know deep down I am their rock and always have been and I love them unconditionally. He told me that our family wasn’t “special” like I had always believed and that “the kids will be fine”. Our kids are not fine – he has wounded them deeply and has no true remorse- only selfish “me, me, me” mantra. I get now that even spending one second on thinking about him is a further waste of my life, but this forum has helped me immensely to not feel so alone and learn some good coping strategies. I am the NC gray rock! Even if I am upset- I am never going to let him see it. No more “kibbles” for cray cray????

Heatdeath
Heatdeath
6 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

OMG. I never made this connection before. Nowdeadserialcheaterwife had chronic yeast infections and UTIs. At the time, I thought they were just a chronic health issue. After she died and I found out the sheer scope of the cheating (as someone upthread said, she never had a loyal day as long as I knew her, certainly not after the first month or so) I figured they were her excuse to avoid intimacy with me.

Now I’m wondering just how many of them were from strange d*ck.

Dragonlady
Dragonlady
6 years ago
Reply to  Heatdeath

Can I just say thank you for this information guys. I have had serious suspicions of cheating from about the 5th year or marriage to the 7th year only because when he finally was caught all the same patterns were resurrecting and severe UTI’s/ yeast infections were two of them. He even had the same rashly thing. It was gross. He blamed me of course. I didn’t even make the connections till right now.
I mean I’ve had that gut instinct thing as there wee so many other red flags. But we moved cities and right after it all cleared up for a few years.
You know what haven’t had an infection since kicked cheater to the curb.
Wow just wow ????

Dollygumdrop
Dollygumdrop
6 years ago
Reply to  Dragonlady

You guys have made a light bulb go on in my head. I had recurrent unexplained cystitis while I was with my ex. I was taking keflex after intercourse for years. I never realised that that it may have been from his cheating! Which makes it worse, actually, we’ve only just had dday1 and that started last March… The cystitis started years ago. I will never know how many were before howorker. Vile pig.

Katy
Katy
6 years ago
Reply to  Dollygumdrop

This is true for me as well! When I began having UTI’s I thought it was a fluke. Luckily we had less sex because of the pain for me and this is when his true colors appeared and things went south for the remainder of the relationship. He was convinced I was cheating on him which was an alarm bell for me that he was cheating on me or preparing to at the very least.
Now in retrospect it probably had already begun. Has been 3 years and haven’t experienced even a mild UTI since. I am just putting this puzzle piece together now because of these other stories. Gross.

JesssMom
JesssMom
6 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

Count me in. Similar gynecological issues. I’ve had NO problems since I quit having sex with STBX.

kmanning
kmanning
6 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

It is gross. I’d already made my appointment to get tested for HIV and stds with my doctor; I decided to backtrack and investigate the prior problem.

Turns out my doctor had send my labs to the CDC. When I had hobbled into his office I could barely walk from the pain and I got super powerful antibiotics. Doctor raised the question of std, but I, too, was married–so no way it was possible.

My sister remembered how sick I was and how X was enraged by it. He did not want me to go to the doctor.

Wonder why?

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  kmanning

For utter fucks sake.

That is gross. You are so lucky to be rid of him!

Isoyacheater
Isoyacheater
6 years ago
Reply to  Kelly

I also had chronic UTIs with cheater. Went to several doctors, one suggested that maybe Cheater could be the cause and he and I should be checked for STDs. I was appalled as we were in a monogamous relationship (well I was!).
When I talked to Cheater pants he said all his past girlfriends had this problem and it was likely the result of his huge dick!!!

Targetted
Targetted
6 years ago

“I was so frustrated with my marriage I saw a hooker once.”

Reality? 20+ hookers over a 25 year period, phone sex, cybersex, internet porn rooms and expenses of $150,000. +

Police notified too. Largest brothel in our city shut down. Madame splashed on front pages. I hope wherever he was by then he was crapping himself

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
6 years ago
Reply to  Targetted

I saw a hooker once <—- this is never true!

Geode
Geode
6 years ago
Reply to  FreeWoman

“The hookers were clean.”
They were still hookers.

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
6 years ago
Reply to  Targetted

Wow, that was some frustration!
????

StartofSomethingGood
StartofSomethingGood
6 years ago

What I thought it was:

I thought he was a wounded man who had fallen into sin because of the abuse from his past and the death of his mom. I believed if I stood for the marriage and prayed, God would bring him back.

What it was:

I married a real sociopath. It was an exit affair from a stone cold abandonment cheater. And none of this was my fault. He married the affair partner and I know he’s incapable of authentic love. He really has an empty elevator shaft where his soul should be.

Newbies, if you have one of these, like CL says, the only question you should be asking yourself is how do I keep this freak as far away from me as possible.

Mac1234
Mac1234
4 years ago

Newbie surfing the archives here. Maybe you’ll get an email notification lol. Thank you for sharing your experience! The question that is paralyzing me is, “How can I keep the creep at arm’s length, raise a healthy daughter, and keep some fraction of the small fortune I built for cheater’s Instagram glory?”
The answer is not file immediately or get a pitbull lawyer as far as I can assess. My hope is a pre-trial settlement where I am primary custodian. These are very rare for the male breadwinner in my state. I am ruminating on the possibilities all day every day! There’s a stockpile big enough to give everyone security but in the perfect range for lawyers to have a feast and eat me alive.
I’m looking at a paralegal to help file uncontested. If you are willing, please send up a prayer (really right now for me please) that my offer and negotiation and timing are perfect. Thanks chump nation!

StaryEye
StaryEye
6 years ago

Thank you. As a newbie here I appreciate the validation about letting my ex go. As much as I want to scream from the roof top I won’t do it. I figure it would put a road block in their relationship. She can have him. I don’t have to run away from him if he is running toward the sunset with dumb dumb. Will it last? Will he hoover? Who knows? She is dumb dumb and even more spineless than me. Bet he can wipe his dirty boots all over her for years. After DD1 he said he wanted to be available incase he met his soul mate. I think he meant a better door mat.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  StaryEye

Thank you for this reminder that I should be glad Schmoopie is taking him off my hands. Most of the time I am still upset over his continued romance with Schmoopie because I have been sidelined. I expended so much effort over the years trying to accommodate his happiness only to be so callously discarded and replaced. I still have a hard time getting beyond that and probably will for years to come, but sometimes I get a glimpse of the advantages. A couple of weeks ago I almost felt sorry for him because he seemed really down. Then I realized that he had always been like that, even before he ever met me (according to his family). After years of living with that, it’s not my problem anymore, it’s hers. Right now she provides some relief from his miserableness, but it won’t last forever. I provided that relief too for many years until I became too worn out and familiar and he needed somebody fresher to meet his needs. Right now I bet she thinks she will always be the one who can make him feel better about himself and that she will always be good for him unlike his cold fish wife who didn’t care enough. I used to think I was the one who was good for him and would always be able to make him feel better. I was, until I wasn’t anymore and it wasn’t because I stopped caring or stopped trying.

foolmet2wice
foolmet2wice
6 years ago

Wow, Chumpinrecovery, that sounds exactly like my life with my ex. Fortunately, he moved far away with shmoopie so I don’t have to see his sad face. She can deal with him now. For the 38 years I’ve known him, he’s never changed. Don’t see that happening now either.

StaryEye
StaryEye
6 years ago

I feel discarded too sometimes. The story I tell myself is that I caught him. He acted sad and was willing to pretend I didn’t know what was happening (Generous! Haha!). I am the one who technically call it. That makes OW plan B. Hoovering is plan C. We are still married and I need to start pretending to be grateful to make sure I get a good divorce. Pretend we grew apart but are still friends. He wants to look like a “nice guy.” ????

Drew
Drew
6 years ago
Reply to  StaryEye

To those who feel abandoned…I believe we need to reframe our thinking. We were not discarded, so much as we were saved. Fucktard (ex) didn’t just change overnight. His cheating and lies are Who He Was, and CL is spot on when she says it’s often “the tip of the iceberg.” Granted he was very successful in many things but connecting/relating/bonding to others wasn’t one. My marriage seemed good but I believe he was behaving poorly the entire time we were together. I was clueless and trusting, like many here, but can’t fault my pure heart. Most of us Chumps are also extremely competent too, which works in their favor, as we are often running our lives with great skill and not expecting too much from our spouses. We expect them to do their fair share, and be all in, same as us. Authentic. When we are with the disordered though we can possess everything good but still feel there is something wrong. That was one of my red flags. Our gut knows. Many of us were also married to very skilled actors. When ex’s luck ran out, on Dday when Puzzle prices began falling into place, it was a culmination of years of his poor life skills and crap life choices. Like that snowball going down hill and growing bigger and bigger…He seemed to make the same selfish decisions over and over without learning to be a better person. Dday saved me.

Tempest
Tempest
6 years ago

ChumpinRecovery–displaying the sadz is the fastest and most efficient means for these jackasses to manipulate other people. Sadly, he doesn’t care about you, and (not so sadly), he doesn’t care about the OW, either. She is the sparkly new toy, which means he may exhibit the same joy a kid exhibits on Christmas morning, only to report being “bored” 3 days later.

You’re still in the ‘painful’ stage where occasionally human emotional attributes can still be attributed to cheater–after all he LOOKs and ACTs like a normal human being. But he’s empty, and only “new” can simulate his void. Soon he’ll need “new” again, and you will be well on your way to a full life of integrity.

Lifeisgood
Lifeisgood
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Yep. My ex would cry soulfully looking straight in my eyes. I felt like i was the jerk for even doubting him! He also invoked his dead brother’s grave “I swear on my brothers grave I’m telling you the truth!” – the dead brother whom we named our son after. I was told never to bring it up the incident to his parents as his mother was so devastated she had to go to a psych ward.

A huge lie to manipulate me into feeling sorry for him. It worked for years. I discovered it after the divorce, when I got out of the orbit.

Anyway, he was self-described upstanding, conservative man with family values. Who hooked up with coworkers, escorts and human trafficking sort of massage parlors; starting. from the first year we were married.

And then there’s the money issues…

Newbies – it’s worse than you think! My only regret is not kicking him to the curb years earlier.

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  Lifeisgood

Mine invoked his dead grandfather.

“My Deda would spit on me if he was alive!” Was what he said to me, crying uncontrollably.

All the while he went underground and continued texing and seeing the OW.

I foolishly told my covert narc MIL and she told me to never bring it up with the rest of his family (who I was conveniently seeing soon) because all their opinions that could ruin our chances of working things out and it was better off keeping things private.

Huge manipulators the both of them. They manipulated me into 1) feeling sorry for him 2) not screaming it from the rooftops before they could control the narrative.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

What is hard for me is that he thinks he cares about her (and is so valiantly trying to convince everyone else what a sweet kind wonderful person she is – pay no attention to that devastated chump over there in the corner). Based on my own experience, that stage could last a good five years or so (3-4 more now) before devalue starts to set in. By the time he’s done with devalue, he may be too old and worn out himself to bother going fishing again. I guess that is when sweet, kind Schmoopie (not) will get her comeuppance because she will be stuck with a grumpy old man.

As for the display of emotions, he is laying that one thick on my daughter as he jumps through hoops trying to get her to accept his choices. I fear it may be starting to work as he is bringing the full brunt of his manipulative powers to bear. He is even enlisting the aid of Schmoopie’s enabler friend who our daughter does like (she has lost two children so that makes her a good person). I can’t say anything, however because A. I signed an agreement promising not to say bad things about him or Schmoopie to the kids and B. I don’t want my daughter to think I am trying to manipulate her and I have never been one to tell my kids what to think. C. If I point out how STBX is using the friend to manipulate daughter that might sound like I am dissing somebody who has lost two children and that would make me insensitive.

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago

Cir, so much of your post applies to me verbatim that I thought I must have written the first paragraph.

I have been mulling over a session I had with kid’s therapist and youngest son this week. He was talking about bringing stbx in with ds so ds could express his feelings io stbx in a safe place where therapist would be his “bodyguard ” so he wouldn’t have to be afraid. Separately I expressed my fear that stbx would say the right thing in the session but outside go back to his usual manipulation.

His response was to affirm this is what happened to my older son with a different therapist except they never had the control session together where stbx was told he wasn’t allowed to blame feeling it and that he had to listen to the kid’s feelings and respond accordingly. If he doesn’t do that over time, the child has the right to choose not see him.

I believe that is what would happen because I do not think he will change. However the idea of putting ds in the room with him still scares me. It is like putting them together to practice a trapeze act where stbx has to catch do. Don’t worry, we have instructors and nets, it’s all safe but eventually they will be in the show without the net.

DS asked to sleep in my room after that session. He hasn’t done that since the week stbx left over a year ago.

StaryEye
StaryEye
6 years ago

Trust that cheaters suck! I can tell you are still focusing in him. Worry about you and what you are doing. It doesn’t matter what he is doing with dumb dumb right now. This is info you should not have, should not seek. When it comes up in conversation shut it down. Every now and then we all fall off the wagon and try to figure out what they did, what they are doing now, what are they telling people. Tell yourself the truth. They are running off into the sunset but they are never going to reach the sun. It’s an illusion. It’s all shallow and for show. People who are capible of deep feelings and empathy don’t lie and cheat on anyone. Chances are he has always been like this and you have been spackling it over. I am not at Meh and have to retell myself my story all the time and remind myself he sucks. He seems so nice and I feel people will believe his sadz story about his cold wife. I use anger and rage as a warm blanket then focus on making my life better.

AW
AW
6 years ago

I can relate to this Chumpinrecovery. I’m at a point where DD is fresh, just a few months, and he is with Schmoopie. I can’t help but feel replaced but I know he is out there searching for something that is missing within himself. I couldn’t provide it and she won’t provide it either because it’s not on the outside. Smh…the chaos and heartache they cause others flitting from woman to woman like this. It’s so sad…I feel sorry for him. I know I’m lucky to have escape chumpdom but I’ve not achieved meh yet and it’s a hard journey.

Amazon Chump
Amazon Chump
6 years ago

It sounds to me like you’re making progress! You’ve realized that 1) he was always like that, and 2) he’s not your problem anymore. Though you still think that she’s providing relief for his miserableness, you haven’t yet realized that ‘he doesn’t care’. You’re attributing emotions to a sociopath. He doesn’t care. He didn’t care about you and he doesn’t care about her. She’s convenient. So when he dumps her, don’t believe that it’s due to his poor upbringing. He does not have the ability to care at all. Keep on thinking that you’re glad to not be dealing with his stupidity anymore until it finally sinks in. You WILL believe it someday and that’s when you will be at peace.

Awake
Awake
6 years ago

I used to believe that if you prayed that God would save the sinner. Pure fantasy thinking. Only a person can save him or herself. Don’t put the blame on God or the devil. Put the blame where it belongs- on the loser.

Lifeisgood
Lifeisgood
6 years ago
Reply to  Awake

My mom was in the convent and used to say to us kids, particularly when we were looking for divine intervention after goofing off and having to be ready for something important – test, presentation, etc. . “God only helps those who help themselves.”

It’s harsh but truthful.

unicornomore
unicornomore
6 years ago
Reply to  Awake

God gives each of us free will and will not rescind the gift – even when they act in a way that is horribly wrong and betray everything that matters.

I went to daily Mass for his soul for 7 years and then he dropped dead. 7 is the number of completion. I think he was headed back to a dark place and God took him before he walked back into sin. While his death saved me from further hurt, I think it was more to save nowdeadcheater than it was to save me. Nothing else would have saved him.

Jojobee
Jojobee
6 years ago
Reply to  Awake

Yep. People have to want to be redeemed. Most don’t. You have to repent to be forgiven and they don’t. They are not sorry.

Kurleegirl
Kurleegirl
6 years ago
Reply to  Jojobee

^^This^^

I pray with a minister from my church most days of the week and I have come to realize that God is a gentleman. He doesn’t force himself on you…these people think they got away with something….they don’t want help. So I pray for myself and my kids instead now. He’s going to face God one day…..

unicornomore
unicornomore
6 years ago

What I thought it was : a single emotional affair with Susan who he turned to in the midst of a depression and life changes. It was a midlife crisis brought on by career failure. I was strong and would hold our family together and keep his place for him to return to. We were married in the Church and it was for life.

What it was : chronic serial cheating that may have dated back to our dating years…he was so avoidant of social events that included school then work…now I see there were likely OWs all along. He maintained to his last breath that he never had sex with the one OW I knew of…that seems so wildly absurd now. His distance, chronic anger, endless hostility…all makes perfect sense now. I dont know that his commitment was ever solid enough that our “vows” were ever real.

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  unicornomore

Interesting your red flag was him not wanting to go to social or work events.

Mine was he didn’t want me there because, “we only talk about work stuff. You’d find it boring.”

I knew he was close to OW and I told him to invite her and their other friend over to our house for dinner and wine.

It didn’t sit well with me, but I thought ok fair enough. I tried.

Gaslit to the extreme.

Chumpzilla
Chumpzilla
6 years ago

What I thought it was:

He moved out because of a “depression” that descended upon him after *my* mother died and that he needed to work things out and figure out how to make our rocky (thanks to his prior serial cheating) relationship better again.

What it really was:

The depression was a lie. The grief was a lie. The attempts to get well (by seeing an individual and several couples counselors) — all lies. He had lined up his next victim. Some troll 30 years his senior that he was already fucking around with *while* my mother was dying. When he left me, he shacked up w her but kept the charade going for 6 months before moving in with her (one block from my house).

I hope they both burn in hell. (Still working on meh, obviously). 🙂

MJB
MJB
6 years ago

I explained away my ex’s first abandonment of me and his 2 small children as a midlife crisis. He was in fellowship and working all nighter’s all the time. My 4 year old son knew daddy was tired all the time. He even played with his baby sister’s doll house and put the daddy up in the bedroom asleep while the mommy, kids, and dog were down in the kitchen. What I didn’t know was he was spending his nights chatting with first schmoopie. She was twice divorced and a known cheater amongst the other nurses. Her nickname was Crazy _____. Everyone saw that except my cheater.

I spent months trying to untangle that skein. The only big hits coming back on the internet pertained to midlife crisis. Granted we were in our early 30’s. I labeled it that when he came begging back. Let him move in to the small house the kids and I had moved to as we were finalizing the divorce.

I ignored earlier red flags (strip clubs and lying about it, lots of porn). After wreckonciliation I ignored those same red flags that continued for years. I put up with his high maintenance and realized I was the giver and he was the taker in the relationship. Oh he told me it was me that was never happy with anything. I questioned myself and tried harder. My kids have not had a ‘normal’ childhood. He discarded our son when he wasn’t living up to expectations. Our daughter became the golden child, she gave lots of kibbles because she brought the kibbles in from others (she played sports and was the best player).

When schmoopie 2.0 came into the picture, I recognized the warning signs from years earlier. I sat on it for a bit because surely a 40 something year old dad wouldn’t possibly be screwing around with our 14 y.o. daughter’s 20 something y.o. assistant soccer coach. Surely he wouldn’t bring that kind of drama into our children’s lives at school? The answer of course is yes he would. It’s all about him. Always has been. If he felt the butterflies and thought this young coach would bring him the kibbles, the rest of us can just eat that ole shit sandwich. How utterly embarassing for your wife and kids.

He ditched us again so he could ride off into the sunset to chase his young schmoopie. I got mighty. Secured those prize posessions (family pictures that he bitched about every time I pulled out the camera), financial documents, and saw a lawyer. I told my lawyer to get it done fast as when the sparkles wore off, he would be circling back around.

The lesson for the newbies I guess is don’t underestimate them. Don’t project your values onto them. The entitled have a way of justifying their horrendous behaviors to themselves and their schmoopies. There is always another schmoopie out there and if your cheater doesn’t have the willpower, they will engage. It’s a buffet of ho and they just can’t pass it up. It took 2 schmoopies and 2 Ddays separated by years for me to see this. My bald, ugly ass middle-aged ex has a pretty good sized wallet and MD after his name–super attractive to some ho’s. I know now there’s nothing off limits if he’s willing to humiliate his family for the twu wuvs. What would be next? Our son’s one day girlfriend or MIL? Our daughter’s roommate in college some day?

These things don’t ‘just happen’. There’s not twu wuv dust floating through the air and sprinkling on unicorns. They are like a loaded grenade just waiting to explode at any moment. Best to get as far away as possible.

brit
brit
6 years ago
Reply to  MJB

Regarding CL’s remark on it’s just the tip of the ice berg. Before I found CN my therapist told me the same thing, this was before I discovered X had an AP. Although it couldn’t have been more obvious.
I was in serious denial and foolishly believed all the absurd lies X fed me.
At that time I thought X having an AP, impossible, the therapist is using a blanket statement which doesn’t apply to my X. Someone sent me photos of X with AP at an air show and I still wouldn’t believe it.
Foolishly I spackled, they were friends enjoying a nice afternoon. I’m shaking my head as I’m writing this, duh, Brit this is your husband with another woman. If someone had presented photos of them naked, boinking each other I’m sure I’d have spackled that too. ” Uh, I know, they decided to spend the afternoon at a nudist camp for some rest and relaxation and they fell down and were struggling to get back up.”
I held on to this image I had in my mind of who he was and claimed to be, not the truth of who he is.
They don’t become possessed, they haven’t been a victim of an alien abduction or brain washing.
Cheating is a conscious decision made by Cheater. They’re fully aware of the consequences and don’t care.

Hopefloats80
Hopefloats80
6 years ago
Reply to  brit

During the time before dd number 1 I knew something was off. I was trying everything. He always complained I never went to his dd softball games. So I went one time unannounced. :)). He acted mad to see me and wouldn’t kiss me hello. 10 mins later someone comes in front of him puts her hand on his shoulder and said goodbye. Didn’t know who this was till he brought her to my house TO GIVE ME CLOSURE. that image on that day still is burned into my brain. He still claims he “doesn’t remember her ever being at a game “. Great I’ll always remember.

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  MJB

“These things don’t ‘just happen’. There’s not twu wuv dust floating through the air and sprinkling on unicorns. They are like a loaded grenade just waiting to explode at any moment. Best to get as far away as possible.”

Cheaters love to insist to their chumps that their affairs “just happened” and they were “powerless to stop it!”

But that’s just more lies. Get the fuck away from the ticking time bomb.

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  MJB

“Don’t project your values onto them. The entitled have a way of justifying their horrendous behaviors to themselves and their schmoopies.”

BAM!

mil23
mil23
6 years ago
Reply to  MJB

Sorry you went through this! Glad you are away from this creep! You are mighty! Thanks for the advice!

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
6 years ago
Reply to  MJB

They are hunting all the time, period.
Great post and advice, MJB!

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  FreeWoman

“Hunting all the time” perfect. I think this is so true. When I first met stbx through a mutual friend at a social gathering, he was completely aloof and I felt like he looked right through me. I thought “what a snob.” An hour later, he came to the table where I was seated, handed me a drink and struck up a conversation. By the end of the evening he was asking me to a concert that was still months away.

Years later when I said, I thought you were such a snob when we first met, he said he was caught off guard, didn’t expect me to be there. Years later, I look at that differently. I know he hates surprises and he is very hard to surprise. He wants complete control over the situation. Even if he had known to expect a new guest, he would have sized me up as a hunter evaluating his prey. Normal people can be caught off guard and still warmly greet a newcomer.

I also think of a mother of one of my son’s teammates whom my husband greatly admired and our first encounter. We were at the first parent meetin for the team and upon introduction, I got the same reaction that I got from my stbx upon meeting him. I had similar thoughts. Weeks later she sits down next to me at a game and talks to me like she wants to be my best friend. Ds is proving to be an asset to the team. Stbx and this woman are still Facebook friends and I wonder if it was ever more.

GetMeFree
GetMeFree
6 years ago
Reply to  MJB

“Don’t project your values onto them. The entitled have a way of justifying their horrendous behaviors to themselves and their schmoopies. There is always another schmoopie out there and if your cheater doesn’t have the willpower, they will engage.”

This right here!

NotAgain
NotAgain
6 years ago
Reply to  GetMeFree

This is definitely true!

peacekeeper
peacekeeper
6 years ago
Reply to  MJB

MJB
You always give such good advice to Newbies and to all Chumps.
You have been through so much and YOU, dear Lady, have come out on top!
You are mighty!
It is unbelieve the multitude of shit sandwiches served on sour dough bread that so many Chumps have choked down.
Not anymore for you MJB. Not anymore.
You are my hero!

(((Hugs))))
Peacekeeper

MissDeltaGirl
MissDeltaGirl
6 years ago
Reply to  MJB

GREAT advice!!!!!

Chumped
Chumped
6 years ago

What I thought it was:
Him befriending an older, unhappy, ugly coworker.
What it really was:
Him falling in love with, clearing out our savings for, buying a house with, and screwing that coworker (no protection, passing on viral STDs to me).
So much for Hopium!

Gonegirl
Gonegirl
6 years ago
Reply to  Chumped

Sounds like my life! Except in my situation Mommy bought them a house.

Kimhopes
Kimhopes
6 years ago

What I thought it was:

A mid-life crisis to explain the thousands of dollars I couldn’t account for going missing from our joint savings account.

What it was:

An immature gutless bastard who had joined multiple dating sites over the last 12 months and was spending thousands of dollars on credits to talk to his ‘queens’ in the Ukraine. A stone cold abandonment Jesus cheater who is now dragging out the divorce.

Geode
Geode
6 years ago
Reply to  Kimhopes

What I thought he was (having been convinced by him and the therapeutic community): A Sex Addict that could recover and make our marriage “better than ever”.

What he really is (after educating myself on alternative theories to Sex Addiction): A Cluster B psychopath that no one can help and no one should be married to.

MotherChumper99
MotherChumper99
6 years ago
Reply to  Geode

BOOM! This! Exactly the same thing happened to me.

I wrote on every page of TWO “Mending a Shattered Heart” workbooks for spouses of “sex addicts.” Thousands of words, extra pages jammed in to sections like anger triggers.

When I kicked his serial cheating ass to the curb he left everything behind, including his Cairns workbook “Out of the Shadows.” After a year, I was throwing all his things away and I looked at it. There were only two entires written in it– hundreds of blank pages! Hundreds! Over 3 months of sex addict therapy and SA meetings — he only wrote 3 words! On a page that questioned what happened he wrote: “the affair.” Singular! When he had at least 4 over 25 years that I have proof of. On another page where it asked about things he’d lied about he wrote one word “drugs.” That’s it!

It was astonishing. I still can hardly believe it. But, that’s who he is: blank, void, souless, no remorse, no insight…… horrifying.

Evil, pure evil.

Remembering this helps remind me why I’m divorced, why I am completely no contact. Why I had to put down the hopeium pipe and turn away from my 25 years of dreams of a life with him and build a new life where he has no role whatsoever.

Fooliette
Fooliette
6 years ago
Reply to  Kimhopes

During a bad period in our marriage (he was angry that I was angry about always being invalidated and minimized) my husband also joined dating sites and sent thousands of dollars in cash and prizes to a girl in Ukraine, 30 years younger than him. I don’t know how long it took him to find this particular girl, but he’s been in contact with her for three years. Last Christmas he spent a lot of time planning nice gifts to send her. He got me a few used gifts from Good Will. Last year, rather than give her up, he cheerfully helped me move into the guest room. I found emails with them gushing to each other about being “best friends”, “destiny”, and planning to meet.
Ironically, a number of years ago, he had a coworker whose wife left him for a man she met online. At the time, this was absolutely scandalous. My husband has always professed to be a moral, upstanding man, and he was very vocally critical of what a “ho” this woman was. And then he basically did the same thing she did, but rationalized it as helping his Ukrainian girl with “English lessons” to better her life, and he actually said he would not give her up because she helps him see “how lucky he is to live in the US.” Seriously, you can’t make this shit up.
I’m still hanging around, saving money. Still in the guest room. My husband claims it’s all over between him and the hot Ukrainian 20-something, but is still secretive with his phone, email, and bank accounts. He is obviously expecting to sweep everything under the rug and act like it never happened. I don’t believe for a second he has stopped contacting her – she’s his bestest friend ever, after all. But I am planning and figuring out how to take care of myself without him.
If he had merely wanted to help someone pay for their “education”, he wouldn’t have needed a dating site to find someone. That’s not what dating sites are for.
In my case, even though he told me his version of “what it was”, I never believed him. After all, his dating site profile specifically stated he was looking for a woman in a much younger age range than I’m in, for marriage. I’m a chump, but I’m not stupid.

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
6 years ago
Reply to  Fooliette

Good luck with the exit plan. The sooner you can get out, the better.

I had one of these “good Samaritans” too. He wanted to help 25 year old waitresses working on a GED with their education. He wouldn’t help his kids with their homework, but a hot blonde, why that was an act of “charity” he could find time for!

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  Fooliette

Have you seen a lawyer?

FSTL
FSTL
6 years ago

Having suffered years of abuse, including unfounded allegations of cheating (!!) and non-stop criticisms and silent treatments, I thought she had a short fling due to me being a bad husband and it was all my fault. My suspicions of an affair were initially confirmed when I saw an email from a clinic that treats STDs which she attended after a weekend away from the family. She initially lied about the clinic (making clear to me she was seeing someone) and faced with the truth she confirmed it was a one night stand (which made sense with the knowledge of an STD test) and said it was over.

The next day I found a pregnancy kit (she had never mentioned it before then, which is odd not to mention to your husband) and the never ending feeling I wasn’t getting the whole truth came out.

I then obsessed over the detail of her behaviour, her emails, her phone bills – she eventually confessed it was over two years, but only ever confirmed things I caught her out on… never any voluntary disclosure. She also stated she was NC, despite still working together, and purported to offer me open access to her devices so I could check if I wanted to.

I later found sexting between them (on her work phone) and at that point told the OM’s wife who dug out his phone bills which made it clear it never ended, they just went underground and communicated via new means. It became clear she had actively made plans to lie and deceive me over a long period of time, all the while abusing me for all sorts of things. We were planning to buy a new home (with massive up front costs) when I caught her – hardly the signs of a marriage about to end, yet she was also planning to leave me if only her fuckbuddy (who has NPD) would take her.

My only mistake – not keeping it quiet until I had ducks lined up and lawyer engaged and a temporary flirtation with Wreckonciliation. Post D-Day and me telling her it is over, she has become utterly unhinged. Compulsive/pathological liar, cognitive distortions/gaslighting, extreme entitlement (everything from the divorce) and pathological need to be right and superior. A lot of that was present in the marriage, but no where near as bad as now. The mask is off, so no need to hide it, I guess.

SevenofCups
SevenofCups
6 years ago
Reply to  FSTL

“Compulsive/pathological liar, cognitive distortions/gaslighting, extreme entitlement (everything from the divorce) and pathological need to be right and superior. A lot of that was present in the marriage, but no where near as bad as now.”

OMG – that is my STBXH exactly. He admitted to two “friendships” with two different women, 3 years apart, that made him want to divorce his wife. When he finally announced he wanted a divorce at year 16 and owned up to the two OW, he said he was sorry for hurting me and our children. Then “friend #2” left him. He became “unhinged” as you call it. The entitlement and superiority complex had always been there – add pathological lying and gaslighting – and crank it all up to unbelievable levels. He has even told me, his lawyers, and everyone I know that I never loved him, was a serial cheater, was “sexually flirtatious” with multiple men, and disrespected him with other men to the point that I destroyed his love for me. Apparently delaying my career for years so I could birth, breastfeed, and raise four children (while he got to travel and advance in his career) left me with a lot of time for illicit activities. I didn’t realize that talking about diaper brands with a dad at playgroup was being sexually flirtatious…

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  FSTL

What I thought on DDay:

It was all my fault for failing to be attentive enough to my husbands “needs” in spite of years spent trying to figure out what those “needs” were and trying to be attentive to them. I must be a complete loser for failing so miserably after having tried so hard. When he gave the MC the long list of my transgression I actually contemplated the possibility that it was a valid list and I screwed up my marriage by not trying hard enough.

What I have figured out since then with the help of friends, family (including his) and a therapist:

He is a high maintenance, selfish, self centered, chronically depressed jerk who was projecting all of his worst faults onto me and throwing himself a pity party for having had such a hard life while blaming me because he refuses to take responsibility for his own misery.

StaryEye
StaryEye
6 years ago

Ditto that. Cheater suck!

taera
taera
6 years ago

This is exactly my stbx character: depressed, distant man who avoided social gatherings except those he was certain of people liking him.
What I thought and sister helped me to think like that: he was depressed, miserable man who suffered from child trauma( father committed suicide) and mother a cold serial cheater and who was suffering from guilt due to his cheating. While wreckconciliation, he used to cry like a baby with snot in his nose and for me( dumb ) i thought those tears were proof of his sincere regret and deep guilt.
What I found out ( through email exchange between the two): i was the thing/obstacle who stood on their way for being together to live their one and only love.
I am still new to this and I’m still in deep pain, but thanks to my mighty mother who helps me look at him as a dog turd, sad sausage who will never ever be happy.

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  taera

The tears are the worst. I saw snot too. I thought it meant he was feeling real emotions. He was just really sad that I found out.

feeling light( taera)
feeling light( taera)
6 years ago

oh my God, the sad sausage never stops behaving like the wretched, victimised soul. Today i met him( at the entrance of the building where i live) after three months to give him his bank card and other stuff! He looked like a wretched man who has been victimised by heartless woman( probably me). wow! he just came back from a two months vacation with her. This is the acting that i was trapped in and deluded my mind during the short wreck-conciliation(3 months Thanks God I found out the truth immediately).

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  taera

Same, girl. he only really liked going out with people he was sure they already liked him.

I remember we went to an interstate wedding of some friends of mine from high school. he actually had the gall to say to me “who are all these people?” and I was like “my friends!” Sure, we didn’t see them often as we lived on the opposite side of the country, but I had clearly talked about them. I had told him I grew up with them, we’d been friends for 20 years by that stage. Narc-y couldn’t believe I actually had friends outside of him. It wasn’t suprising given the context that I was supposed to organise our social life and when I failed he had no choice but to fuck around with the OW as our life was “so boring.”

Towanda
Towanda
6 years ago

“He is a high maintenance, selfish, self centered, chronically depressed jerk who was projecting all of his worst faults onto me and throwing himself a pity party for having had such a hard life while blaming me because he refuses to take responsibility for his own misery.”

Saving this to read over and over until it rolls from my tongue every time someone asks why we broke up.

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

Sadly me too. He actually told me that I “disempowered him”… um… you were the one manipulating my reality and financial security?

Drew
Drew
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

Chumpinrecovery, Me too! That quote just about says it all. ????????????

FreeWoman
FreeWoman
6 years ago
Reply to  FSTL

Yikes! It sounds like she was trying to get you to buy a fancy house- for them! If you’re not free yet, be careful.

Blindside
Blindside
6 years ago

What I thought is was: Joining gyms and working out to help her feel better about herself.

What it was: “Cardio” in hotel rooms or in parked cars with her personal trainer and/or her COW.

UXworld
UXworld
6 years ago

What I thought it was:

“You are my best friend, the man I’ve built my life with, and you and the girls mean more to me than anything in the world. So I want to be honest with you: I’ve met a man who I feel like I’ve come to have a real connection with, and I’d like to know if you’d be willing to consider having an open marriage.” I thought: Holy shit, here’s someone who thinks so much of our life together and the family we’ve created, that she doesn’t want to jeopardize it by having an affair. She’s actually confessing a strong attraction, respecting my feelings and my trust in her enough to bring it to me, and opening a honest dialog about a potentially difficult topic, like mature life partners do. I sure am fortunate, the least I can do is have a conversation about it.

What it really was:

A set-up. Pure and simple. She took the approach she did because she knew I’d have the reaction I described. She used all of my empathy, trust and decency against me and used it as a launching point for months of emotional manipulation and abuse.

AD
AD
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

Uxworld, that sounds super familiar, I had the same attitude throughout to my spouse: grateful

Sigh????

Shechump
Shechump
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

UX – “A set-up. Pure and simple.”

His manipulations is what blew my mind the most.
X had the time to actually figure out how to make me be gone for 2 wks at a time, encouraging the travel, and delicately planning his life with his fuck in my home while I was gone. It involved her becoming his new wife in ‘my home, my bathtub, my bed’. Bizarre how sick he was to actually think that would work. And, she did too. Playing house is exactly what they were doing.

I thought:
It was him becoming a home-body watching the dogs while I was away with the other dogs, showing.

What it turned out to be was making big plans to get me out of the home we built, stealing lots of money, and romancing his Stone. The disappointment in his character is one of the most devastating things about the entire 35 yr marriage.

Chumpinrecovery
Chumpinrecovery
6 years ago
Reply to  UXworld

That sounds just like the BS what’s her face was pushing the other day. Your ex is so “enlightened”. Just talk about it and is all ok.

Awake
Awake
6 years ago

What’s with them cheating with older ugly low life women? Mine did the same thing. I told him after I found out that he could have done much better. Sad…..

seenthelight
seenthelight
6 years ago
Reply to  Awake

My Ex H OW is a real low life trashy much older woman.

She has a face like a horse.

My Sister saw a picture of her and said that woman is very ugly and has a hideous mouth. I said she has a hideous mouth in more than one way. Total Trollope.

Chumptacular
Chumptacular
6 years ago
Reply to  seenthelight

The OW in my case has the skin tone of a boiled lobster – bright red. Her eyes look like two halves of a raisin stuck in a ball of red dough. Her nose looks like someone surgically implanted a football in the middle of her face. She is a blonde and has blonde fuzzballs covering her beet red arms. Her figure is a carpenter’s dream – flat as a board.

DunChumpin
DunChumpin
6 years ago
Reply to  Chumptacular

He’s about 20 yrs older than her, not a good twenty years and truly inferior in every way to me. Sex couldn’t be the attraction, because you’d still have to get to the point of having sex before you knew it was.
That’s when I realized this was a much bigger issue. In my mind, the person you are in a relationship with is like an exclusive club or should be and I don’t want to be in a club that wants grandpa as a member.

3timesachump
3timesachump
6 years ago
Reply to  seenthelight

Same here..I said to my BF that at least he could have cheated with someone better looking then me. She was so frumpy looking. He said to me looks aren’t everything. He said he was with her because she was horny. He met her on a dating website.

taera
taera
6 years ago
Reply to  3timesachump

same here, not because I consider myself beautiful, but at least i know I’m warm, loving, and attractive, but she is really ugly, cold and self-absorbed ( i know her, we had wine with her and lunches, she was introduced to me as a good friend). the few times i have met her, she only talked about herself. She once invited us to a pizza place that was supposed to be one of the great pizza places as she said. and to my surprise she ordered meat ball! I mean meat balls a a pizza place? I think she must be boring. whatever..

Chumpalicious
Chumpalicious
6 years ago
Reply to  3timesachump

Blech, doesn’t that just say it all?

Feelingit
Feelingit
6 years ago
Reply to  Chumpalicious

Oh yes, all about the sex. Stbx said it was “new and fresh”. The next breath he told me they would lay there and talk about how abused they both were in their marriages! Wtf!

I know , however, she is much more sexually adventurous than me because I would never consider having sex with someone I met drunk at a bar immediately upon leaving the bar. Never mind that both were married.

Her Blondeness
Her Blondeness
6 years ago
Reply to  Chumpalicious

I’ve said the same thing, slightly differently, for almost 17 years now, since finding out about cheater #1 —- throw me over for a super model, sure OK, I got it. But a horse-faced, drug addicted, convicted felon that looks like she was ridden hard and put away wet? Uuuhhhh, not so much.

ChumpStaronHollywoodBlvd
ChumpStaronHollywoodBlvd
6 years ago
Reply to  Her Blondeness

This is so true, mine had one six years younger; but she looked way older, fatter and literally so much makeup you wonder if she uses a putty knife to apply it. She had a arsonist husband, a murderer for one son, a drug dealer for the other son and 2 other kids. She had multiple bankruptcies,
unpaid tickets that went to warrants. This, for a man who got a vasectomy because he didn’t want kids. There really is no explanation or rhyme or reason.

Awake
Awake
6 years ago
Reply to  seenthelight

Lol. Yes they do. Because they always say they just had oral sex….ie not a real affair. Yeah….ok

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  Awake

hahahah that’s what mine said!

it was only oral!

and just once!

they were drunk!

ahahahahahah cheaters are all the same. so unoriginal.

Jojobee
Jojobee
6 years ago

What I thought it was: A “crush” on a 26 year old Capt. serving under him in Afghanistan, brought on by stressful conditions and being far from home.

What it was: Full blown affair (probably not the first.) Dating sites. Daily porn obsession. Prostitutes. Lots and lots of prostitutes. Specialist prostitutes costing $800 an hour, that he booked flights to see. It was a big barrel of lies.

Towanda
Towanda
6 years ago

I’m still not sure what it really was/is and I can’t put the shovel down. I can’t stand being in the dark and not knowing the full picture, regardless of how ugly it is I WANT TO KNOW!

I’m stuck on this presently.

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

I was the same. I was obsessed. I asked the most ridiclous questions. My brain couldn’t let it go.

NC helps. So does therapy. So does being mighty. So does getting a life.

Good luck. Take it one day at a time.

StaryEye
StaryEye
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

Me too! I just don’t know and I will probably never know. I am not the marriage detective. The fact my H needs a detective to monitor his failthfulness is good enough for me. What he admitted to is good enough for me. I know he lied about meeting OW and admitted to meeting up with her after work to “shop” with her twice behind my back after I was clear he needed to stay away from her. The second time (dd2) was on their day off which was also my day off. He could have spent the time with me but choose to meet her. Does matter if they were shopping or meeting to be alone? I want to know but have to except he broke my trust either way. People don’t hide relationships and meetings unless there is a reason. I would have been fine with him “shopping” with anyone but her. This was after finding flirtatious text messaging 5 years ago leading to a 6 month separation. (DD1) and him telling me how wonderful she was. Why can’t I understand she is so caring? Worst case senerio is that they went underground for the last 6 years so my H could stay living with his kid and get cake to show his friends and family. Or he stayed because I made money to make his life more comfortable. That makes him ugly on the inside to use me for money when I thought we were in a marriage. He has started telling me thank you all the time and it makes me want to throw something. That is how he treats people less close to him. Don’t think he ever said thank you until this last year. Makes me suspicious he has been involved with her over the last year because last time we had sex (a year ago) he awkwardly said “uh, thank you?” Weird! Every little memory makes me suspicious.

Now that we have been NC for 3 months I can see all the other big problems like laziness. I assumed he was taking care of the house in some way. Nope. Even the furnace filter was full of dirt, bushes over grown, all the sprinklers needed replacing. Guess he was just laying around waiting to nag me to do the dishes while he made plans with OW. He is such LOSER!

Towanda
Towanda
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

I know, you guys are all correct. I just can’t seem to get ‘there’ in my head. It’s not that I need the details to know he sucks, or because I think this is salvageable. Capricorn is on to what it is with me, I need the details to feel I have control.

I’ve been an investigator in my career for the last 11 years. Everyday when I go to work I am trying to uncover lies, patterns, and piece the truth together. I’m good at my job, but I can’t get to the bottom of what my own partner of 9 YEARS has been doing behind my back?!!!! It’s maddening. It triggers something in me.

Obviously this is a personal challenge/hurdle to overcome but I’m just in the struggling with it phase.

Sarah
Sarah
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

Towanda, perhaps this has something to do with retreating to our comfort zones? I’m a PhD candidate, and research is my way of life. When I found out, I did research day in day out. Not on reconsiliation, but on NPD, NPD relationships, cheating… In the process I found this site. I needed to have all the academic information behind it all. At the time, I think I was just finding solace in something I know, am good at, and am trained to do. Your reaction here might be similar.

Towanda
Towanda
6 years ago
Reply to  Sarah

This makes a lot of sense to me Sarah. I definitely think that knowledge is my comfort zone, on nearly everything in life. I too have researched the hell out of NPD, NPD relationships, empaths, cheating etc etc. I obsesses over the information gathering phase and this is where I am with this guy. Great observation, thanks for sharing it helps to detach and observe my own behaviour from a new perspective.

Eilonwy
Eilonwy
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

One reason you may find it impossible to figure it all out is that the cheater may not really even have the answers. Some cheaters keep their own charts and revel in the number of conquests they’ve had, but others are so pathological in their lies, that they don’t really know if they had 3 accounts on Match or 5, gave a couple hundred to their Schmoopie or a a couple thousand dollars, etc. They live in the moment creating a justifying narrative for each decision–and that means telling one lie to Schmoopie, one to you, one to a friend who knows about the affair, etc. Asked the truth, they are nearly paralyzed because they truly don’t know more than the broad outlines themselves–they cheat and they siphon money, but for how long, with whom, and how much is frankly beyond them to tally.

If you are digging for the dirt on one Schmoopie, maybe some kind of truth is possible to exhume, but for a lot of these people, the level of deception and dysfunction in their lives makes sorting the truth from the lies impossible. They cannot tell you themselves which lie is a cover for which other lie. They haven’t built a nested series of Russian dolls; they’ve built a latrine, and it is all just shit down there.

Towanda
Towanda
6 years ago
Reply to  Eilonwy

Really good information here Eilonwy. I would definitely agree that he is not as cunning and calculated as some narcs can be. I don’t suspect one schmoopie, I suspect several play friends and this may indeed be why it is so difficult to nail down specifics. Thanks for pointing this out and I love your latrine analogy!

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

Agreed. They are so twisted in their minds that THEY don’t even know the truth. There is no getting it out of them because it isn’t in there.

I strongly believe my guy believes 100% of his own lies. That’s what makes it so scary. They are capable of anything because they will change the narrative. Terrifying.

KathleenK
KathleenK
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

Of course you are stuck in this – he stole your reality from you and you want to know the truth! I hope you can find out as much as you can. There will come a time when you say this is enough; I know enough. If you can’t find out information, you can piece together a semblance of what might have happened from reading stories of other chumps, and by trusting your gut and gut feelings. Sometimes you will wake up in the morning with an Aha moment. Oh! this probably happened…
Also time will help a lot. I am at a point now where I know only the tip of the iceberg but that is enough for me because I went through a long process of trying to piece together my reality of the last 10 years. Do trust your gut; if you think something happened it probably did. Don’t discount that by telling yourself you don’t know for sure. Do not be hard on yourself for wanting to know – that is a natural human reaction. Give it time. The horribleness of not knowing will get better.

Doingme
Doingme
6 years ago
Reply to  KathleenK

Putting the shovel down was a simple, “You’ve got enough evidence” from my therapist.

Yup, I could trust that he sucks.

Capricorn
Capricorn
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

Towanda
I’m in the minority here but I wanted to know a lot. As CL writes somewhere I was looking for my personal tipping point to propel myself out of the relationship. This is just how I handle things. I need a lot of information as it makes me feel more in control. Did I really need it? Who cares. I wanted it. I had multiple spreadsheets all colour coded for each OW. 1, 2 and 3 for easy reference. I had their timelines all plotted out against mine. My now ex pretty much complied with the details. He’s a bit passive. I was not. After a while it all sunk in, the who, the where, the when, the how. I just stopped one day about 4 months in. I had enough. I still find things out now but by accident not design and I just shrug. I am divorced. It’s of no further consequence.
It’s a personal decision. Can you ever ‘know’, will they tell, why do you need it etc but I did and for me it helped. I needed to rethink that period of my life while he was cheating with all this information. It was my way of handling the trauma.

CeliA
CeliA
6 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

My personal tipping point was a combination of three things:

1. Uncovering Schmoopie #2.
2. Lost my respect when I realized I was dealing with a manchild.
3. Seeing a future where I play the role of mother until the day I change his bed pan.

Never looked back since.

ivyleaguechump
ivyleaguechump
6 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

I still want to know, am still trying to figure out the timeline, perhaps looking for the tipping point. In my hopium haze, I am also trying to believe it doesn’t help to dwell in the past, that the ONLY way we stand a chance at moving forward as a couple is for me to eat that sandwich….but refuse to take any more. I am already teetering, and he knows it. I am scared.

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  ivyleaguechump

” I am already teetering, and he knows it. I am scared.”

Me too, Ivy League. Me too.

3timesachump
3timesachump
6 years ago
Reply to  Capricorn

I totally understand about the tipping point! My tipping point would be that if he was cheating the 6 years between the first time and this time. Those 6 years we were supposedly rebuilding out relationship from the first time he cheated til now when we were planning on moving in together, getting married and retiring together. I’m still looking but don’t know if I will ever know for sure. The only person who knows for sure is him and his daughter. He brought the last one to his house to screw so she knows his was screwing around one me. She is 27 but still know she won’t tell on her dad.

BSOD_Chumped
BSOD_Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

@Towanda – Take it from another on the path, what do you really need to know? Why do you need to know? What is the benefit of knowing? Like EyesOpenNow, I am sorry as it sucks to have the damage we have. I know it is hard, but the energy is better spent on you, not your past. How does knowing further help? You and I were duped in many, many ways and I know I would always love to know how, but for me, I accept that I know what I know and it is enough. Heal yourself and stand strong, put down the shovel, it really isn’t needed.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
6 years ago
Reply to  BSOD_Chumped

Creative screen name BSOD! I think we all need to know up to a certain point, then we turn to looking within and healing.

Shechump
Shechump
6 years ago
Reply to  Datdamwuf

Not sure what BSOD means, but you always make a lot of sense to me. BSOD – you screwed my hopium head on tight and crushed my rose-colored glasses. But, it took me a very long time to figure out I didn’t really need to ‘know’ anything about why he did what he did.
It has taken me 3 years…

Indeed – ‘Heal yourself and stand strong.’

BSOD_Chumped
BSOD_Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

Shechump – Thanks. This is a part of what I have had to tell myself and at some point I found that I really don’t need more. What my wife did, she did. I am 12 going on 13 weeks in and am very much still learning but at some point I had to give up knowing more for myself. She cheated, she chose her affair partner over her husband of 17 years and has pissed everything else away for her own selfish “needs”. In the end, it is that simple.

Datdamwuf – You beat me to it – thanks!

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
6 years ago
Reply to  Shechump

BSOD = Blue Screen of Death. What MS Windows does when it goes totally fubar

Got-a-brain
Got-a-brain
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

Of course you want to know the reality of the life you were living! I remember that feeling well! It sucks to think you had the wool pulled over your eyes ????! Here are the things that helped me get over having to know. After having spent 5 years in false reconciliation, I spent plenty of time trying to piece that puzzle together.

1) The reasons, when all said and done, will never make sense to you! You’ve been labeled and branded the “problem” by the cheater. “You over-cooked my steak” will never be a valid reason for cheating – there is no VALID REASON.

2) Their narrative is not the truth. It is a self serving, selfish narrative that gives them license to be an asshole!

3) Their reasons, their timelines, their behavior does not change your reality… which of course is you were mistreated, misinformed and living a lie. Knowing what those lies were, still won’t change it.

4) Having all the information will not prevent it from happening in the future – cheaters cheat because they want to, not because of something you do or don’t do!

5) Infidelity steals so much of your life… hopes, dreams, innocence, and the belief in a fair and just world. Accepting that doing the right thing and being a good person doesn’t determine the outcome of your life is a hard pill to swallow. We think if we take precautions and understand the ins and outs, it will somehow shelter us from harm.
“If I walk on this sidewalk I won’t get hit by a car… until of course that person in their new sports car looses control and end up running you over”
“If I invest my money wisely, that’s better than gambling it away… until of course Bernie Madoff is found to be a fraud”

It takes time to put the shovel down, but the sooner that you do, the sooner you can start moving on. You’ll get there!

EyesOpenNow
EyesOpenNow
6 years ago
Reply to  Towanda

Towanda, I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this, but ask yourself if knowing would change anything about your path forward? If you know enough to know this relationship isn’t acceptable to you, it doesn’t matter how much more there is. Re-read CL’s post Untangling the Skein of Fuckedupedness, and do your best to put down the shovel and start the divorce process. You will never hear the whole truth from your cheater, and the time and energy you might spend trying to track it down is time and energy better spent on YOU! I was married almost 25 years, and my ex-hole only admitted the things I could prove. It was making me crazy trying to understand what he did and why he did it, but reading daily here made me finally realize it just wasn’t worth it. It was hurting me more than it was helping me, and I hope you can see that as well and put your time and energy into building your fabulous, cheater-free life!!

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
6 years ago
Reply to  EyesOpenNow

Towanda, I’d say you know the whole picture, or at least the big pieces of it. He cheats. He abuses alcohol and drugs. He’s no good for you or your kids.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
6 years ago
Reply to  LovedaJackass

And of course, if he’s an addict, he lies about everything. So the truth is elusive in any case.

Mandie101
Mandie101
6 years ago

I believed that like on TV (DAMN YOU TV! ) patience and love and understanding could help him overcome his FOO issues.

The reality : He was already too messed up by the time I appeared. There was no undoing that damage. Worst yet it was destined to rub off on my and the children!

I believed that he meant what he said.

The reality : He just said whatever he needed to to get what he wanted.

I thought he was depressed and stressed about work and our home.

The reality : he was depressed and stressed alright… Because he had not ‘control ‘.

I thought he was a decent man having a crisis

The reality : he is Satan’s minion. (the holy books don’t lie regarding discerning these frauds. Our society takes the precepts of forbearance and tolerance out of context )

StaryEye
StaryEye
6 years ago
Reply to  Mandie101

So tired of hearing how stressful ex found his job. It was always his excuse. One more blessing of NC. I was stressed at work too but came home and tired to make him feel better for 16 years.

DunChumpin
DunChumpin
6 years ago

What I thought it was: an affair that occurred because we had both failed at fulfilling each other in our marriage.

What it was: I was married to a borderline who had this planned since before the day we met.
Oh and the cheating and abuse-sooo much worse than I could have believed possible before.

chumpsrushin
chumpsrushin
6 years ago

So the tip of my iceberg emerged on D-Day with the revelation my pushing 70 H had a 6 year old . My response: it must have been a one night stand where alcohol was involved . When I looked below the surface there was a polar ice cap of an emotional affair of 10 plus years which explained why I had to use a credit card to pay the electric bill. Silly gramma , you were chumped and discovered CN one sleepless night and realized that you were in good company and maybe someday you will be able to swim far enough away from that ice burg and be mighty again.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
6 years ago
Reply to  chumpsrushin

Chumpsrushin, I had forgotten the terrible details of your story. That’s one hell of an iceberg.

trying for mighty
trying for mighty
6 years ago

What I thought it was:
depression due to a mid life crisis caused by failure to achieve in his career, problems with our college age son, erectile dysfunction. We were in a period of deciding whether we could stay married. He kept saying “things need to change” but would never say what needed to change, other than making it clear that what needed to change was unspecified behavior on my part.

What it was:
a years long, ongoing, inappropriate relationship with an ex student, with creepy sexual overtones (he was helping her with her “daddy issues”; she started a FaceBook page “fan club” for him, asked him to get an online minister’s certificate so he could marry her to her then boyfriend she later broke it off with–and he did this); two and a half years of fishing my discarded underclothes out of the trash and wearing them around when I wasn’t home, she-male porn, reading lesbian romance novels, and masturbating, all while discussing his “gender issues” with the ex-student and traveling to her town to go to presentations and performances with her. She convinced him he was transgender and pushed him to “transition.” And I was completely in the dark about all of it.

So while I was running around wondering what I needed to do to re-set our marriage, he was exploring his “alternative sexuality” with another woman. For two and a half years! And then he came to me to drop this trans bomb and said he was telling me because “I owed it to you.” What he OWED me was not to be acting behind my back, keeping me in the dark, while discussing matters that intimately affected my marriage with this ex-student.

Who knows what I still don’t know.

Mandie101
Mandie101
6 years ago

Oh lord… That is a big iceberg there.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
6 years ago

After using Find-my-iPhone to track him to a hotel, he told me, and I believed, that this was the first time he cheated on me. (I will admit, I was in shock the first few days so, it makes sense that I bought that.)

What I learned after a little hack here and a little keylogger there, is that this thing had been going on between them for at least a year. And that even though this fucker played dutiful, loving husband our entire marriage, she was at least the 5th or 6th whore involved with him, some overlapping with the next, like this last one he left me for.

I wonder how she’d feel knowing that? I imagine she’ll be as shocked as I was. ????

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Rumblekitty, would you mind posting in the forum about “a little hack here and a little keylogger there”? I looked up keyloggers the other night but need some more direction. How can I find anything if we do not have a computer, only phones and tablets? Both are locked with a code.
I could try to guess his email password but gmail always sends a warning email when someone accesses your account from a new device. So he would know.
I have no proof of his cheating. I probably don’t even technically belong on this site because of that. But I keep coming back because so many bells go off in my head.
So I guess I am looking for tech support and validation.

MJB
MJB
6 years ago

I have a different take ont his Differently Chumped. Do you HAVE to know you’re being cheated on? Take how you’re feeling right now. Can you live this way the rest of your life?

I had so many red flags that I ignored. I also knew my ex was high maintenance and chronically miserable. It took confirmation of a second schmoopie for me to cut my losses and divorce. I didn’t want it to affect my kids, but now I see our lives are really so much better without him in it.

And you do deserve to be here. You deserve a happy life without a cheater. Screwing around is just one aspect of someone with bad character. Have you though about a PI if you must know?

Differently Chumped
Differently Chumped
6 years ago
Reply to  MJB

Thank you for the replies, everyone. Sm thinking it may be best if I don’t try to poke the giant anthill with a stick.

Through discussion here and the forum, I realized I needed proof of cheating in order to feel justified in leaving.

But isn’t the abuse enough reason? My goodness, what is wtong with me?

99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
99problemsbutacheateraint1ofthem
6 years ago

Mine gave me his passwords – but only after I demanded them.

He then proceded to whine about how he felt he was “being persecuted” and treated “like a child.” Um… which wasn’t in line with him saying he couldnt live without me. If you can’t live without me, then give me your passwords so I know you’re no longer lying. Easy.

Perfectlife
Perfectlife
6 years ago

If you can get his phone and log on to a computer at the same time, then you can access his email and delete the message off his phone before he sees it. If you don’t know his password, then reset it and get the verification code from his phone. If you have his email and his password, then google “my activity”. Log in. You can see all of his google searches, including map quest. Once you do this, then forward everything you can to your own mailbox. Cover your tracks. If he cannot login – most likely he won’t realize why, but will reset his password on his own. Meanwhile – you get your evidence together and go get a lawyer.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
6 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

“[A] little hack here and a little keylogger there.” Believe what you will right out of the D-Day gate, but then verify. 🙂

JC
JC
6 years ago

What a great idea!

What I thought it was: An emotional affair between my wife and her single co-worker. They expressed physical attraction but never did anything. I left her anyway because she refused to stop. Afterwards, my wife stopped talking to her OM and he got back together with his girlfriend and mother of his child, and he proposed! They got married and lived happily ever after. My ex wife went to therapy to deal with her “sudden” selfishness and change in personality and learned from her mistakes. She cared about me, but she was confused and made mistakes.

What it actually was: A full-blown emotional and sexual affair between my wife and her engaged coworker. After I left her, she and him continued to see one another, right up and through his wedding and into his marriage. My wife didn’t have a “sudden” character change that she addressed. Instead, she used therapy and select e reasoning to justify all of her actions. She had no compunction about destroying two marriages in less than 1 year. She was always capable of this; I just ignored red flags. She didn’t care about me; her confusion was a ruse to avoid responsibility for her actions; a mistakes is an accident, but there’s nothing accidental about cheating and lying for several months…and then doing it again to someone else’s engagement/marriage for another several months.

unicornomore
unicornomore
6 years ago
Reply to  JC

“her confusion was a ruse to avoid responsibility for her actions”

This is where so many of us get tripped up….he so deeply hope for a good outcome that this seems a reasonable excuse when in reality we are being played …BIG.

I think nowdeadcheater was terrified that the whole “long term cheater” jig was up and he was about to be outed as a serious asshole and the stress of it contributed to his insanity. One day he laid on the floor and rolled around inconsolable…of course I was SO worried about him and tried to be helpful and solicitous of his “needs”.

Lucky for him I was the least suspicious human alive, I was so convinced he would “never” do such a thing, I didnt see the writing on the wall.

BeowulfSabrina
BeowulfSabrina
6 years ago