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The “Plan B” Offer


If things don’t work out with her, perhaps you and I could work things out.

This was in my “Universal Bullshit Translator” requests this morning. This statement is so cake-y and so common. Yeah, right, I want to be Plan B! Thanks for being so bold and out there with it, Cheaterpants.

How many of us have gotten this “offer”? Or its twin brother: “I have to keep an OW/OM because, hey, it might not work out with us!” Followed by the inevitable blameshifting: “Because I don’t know if you can forgive me.”

It’s a keen look into the rancid oatmeal that is Cheater Brain.

People are commodities. You hold on to them, trade, or sell them off like stock. Hmmm, this one is performing well today, but according to my kibble index, the stock may drop, so let’s pick up a couple shares of Stacey.

From the chump’s perspective, the Plan B offer is baffling. Uh, hey fuckwit, you committed to me. It was that marriage ceremony thingy. You know, in front of all our assembled family and friends? See those children over there with half your DNA? They’ve been operating under the assumption that they were the Only Plan.

Oh chumps, you just don’t understand CAKE do you? How delicious, sustaining, and full of kibbles it is. Cheating is a narcissistic act. Narcissists require multiple sources of ego kibbles. Cheating is simply maximizing kibble production by trading one low-performing source of kibbles (you there too focused on your job or children) for higher-performing source (an affair partner unencumbered by reality). Of course, kibbles being the precious commodity that they are, a cheater doesn’t want to shut the kibble mines — so they offer you the awesome opportunity to be auxiliary kibbles! And compete for the chance someday, if you can improve production, to be primary kibbles again.

“If things don’t work out with her, perhaps you and I could work things out” is also illustrative of the cheater’s self view. They really do think they are AWESOME. Don’t you want to get in on this? Of course you want them! Of course you’re pining! Of course you’ll wait!

Because you don’t have any needs, do you? You’re not really a thing are you, beyond kibble producer? I mean, God forbid, you might want the full attentions of a partner. Perish the thought. Partnership — such an ugly word, with its connotations of reciprocity and bonding. A 50-50 split on the kibbles? NEVER! And those sticky-fingered, grubby little children of yours? Kibble thieves!

Look, if you could address those issues (get rid of the kids and their needs, sublimate your ego), maybe it could work out again!

Let’s everyone pass on that offer, thanks.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • The mighty chump is supposed to be so mighty, that they must just suck it up and learn to live with it cause you know that’s how the cheaters are. They have needs and if you could just be forgiving enough, life would be so much better instead of you going and breaking up the family on top of all you have already done.

    I just found out that a friend filed for divorce cause she walked in on him and her sister!
    GOD her own sister! Yea keep it in the family man.

    • What an unbelievable betrayal. Imagine the sort of person who could do such a thing. I actually have a friend whose mother not only had an affair with her sister’s husband, he dumped the wife and married the sister. Total disorder.

    • You can’t really say that the sister’s fuckwittery was because of FOO either, because that’d be an insult to the chumped sister either. Jesus fuck those people are disgusting. Its just one of those things that you just DON’T DO. Just even the thought of screwing around with my sisters boyfriends? Hell to the fuck no!

    • It appears that, a year after my divorce, my sister has taken up with my Ex. They are a perfect match.

  • Walking in on your husband messing around with your sister has a yuck factor that makes me want to spew my breakfast! But, I am no plan B to some home wrecking, disloyal, nasty HO! If that’s what he thought was so great than he had better have more in common with her than getting naked and doing the nasty because he is now looking at the only woman who will tolerate his nasty presence! Good riddance!

    • True, since cheaters usually trade down, let them keep the lower-quality item. We chumps are outahere.

      • Amen Tempest. And boy did he EVER affair down! They certainly deserve each other. The old saying, water seeks it’s own level, comes to mind. Just didn’t know it was sewer water!

      • I love that you said traded dow most definitely! Everyone who I have show pictures of OW said what is he thinking. She took herself off FB. Because she didn’t want anyone seeing what she looked like.

    • It hurts so bad but Roberta has it right. Who wants to be sloppy seconds to a home wrecking Ho?

  • Word for word, those are almost exactly what my Cheating Ex said to me on D-Day itself. I had just found all these texts and phone calls on his cell phone records after wondering why he was so late coming home that night. After first lying and denying it, he 180’d to telling me all the usual crap from the cheater script, like “it just happened,” to telling me he couldn’t give her up because he’d “already run the Sharing Idea by her and she won’t go for that” and of course the subject of today’s post: “If it doesn’t work out with her, Muse, I can totally see us getting back together someday.”

    I’m proud that my inner voice spoke up immediately and told him NO Way, “if you are leaving me for another woman, you are Never getting back together with me.” For six months he attempted to get me to do the Pick Me Dance and at least a dozen separate times said, “No one knows what the future holds, Muse!” dangling that out there as a “prize” for me that would induce me to give him half of all our joint possessions that I paid for over 90% of I suppose.

    That very first night I realized that this man did not have any integrity. That was a big shock because I’d believed in his false image for so long but over the six months that he kept up with the “If you play your cards right, Muse, you might just get a second chance!” and “People DO get back together after many years!” the layers peeled away and now, 19 months later I see this shallow, narcissistic user, fool really, who never deserved to be with someone as honest and true as me.

    One of the nuggets of D-day night practically says it all, “I don’t know what happened! In five minutes I went from being 100% committed to you, to being 100% committed to her! I realized if I could end up in bed eith someone else SO easily, something must be really wrong with our relationship!” Yeah, it was wrong all right, the wrong part was him – Actions do speak louder than words, but sometimes their words betray their true character if you listen to what they are realling telling you. Thanks for another great post, CL, you have helped me find my strength again over the past year!

    • Oh my gosh – my ex said EXACTLY the same thing in an email to me right after he left – “no one knows what will happen in the future N…just don’t close the door on us yet.” Ughh. I held onto that email like a little scrap of hope until I realized he had just dangled it to A- make me more compliant during the separation agreement negotiation for child support/property division and B – keep me as a fall back option if he didn’t find his swinging bachelorhood to be as much fun as he anticipated. Once the OW started to put pressure on him to commit, and once the paperwork was signed – I got the “I will always care about you but not in the way a husband cares about a wife – I need to be free to find my happiness – blah, blah, blah…” Makes me want to puke now that I didn’t print and ceremonially burn that email!! These cheater really are not very imaginative are they?! They all seem to follow a set script.

      • I got “I love you, but I don’t want to live with you.” Huh? I wish I’d known CL back then, because that’s cheaterspeak for “I don’t love you and I’ve done very unloving things to you, but I hope you’ll still think I’m a nice person because I said I love you.” At the time it was so confusing because I was dying to hear that deep down he still loved me. Luckily going NC finally broke me of my Hopium addiction.

        • I got with crocodile tears “why didn’t you fight for me!?” very confusing at the time since he told me he planned to have a future with the schmoopie and since he did I asked him to move out pronto. Wish I’d known about cake at the time-just couldn’t figure out what he meant by that and hoped he did still have true feelings for me. If he had thought about it at all I guess he thought it was going to be a fight over wonderful him. He also tried to blame shift that it was my fault since I “found out” which is why he was forced into a decision.

          • Omg, mine said those exact words too. “Why didn’t you fight for me?” I just said to him, “I did.” He was so obviously trying to get more dancing out of me. I was so done and tired at that point that it just wasn’t gonna happen.

            • Add me to this list. Mine said, “Why didn’t you fight for us?”

              Um, maybe because you were off fucking someone else?

              I realized it was HIM who had no fight in him; at least not for anything but his needs.

              • I got, “I feel needed, but not wanted.” A few days later it was, “If it doesn’t work out with you, then I’m all alone.” Cake, cake and more cake.

              • i was the one asking him why he didnt fight for me. maybe i am the narc. but after all these years i stood by his side i wanted him to stand by my side. after i found out about MOW i gave up.

                he never did fight for me

      • Free to find my haappiness do they all say that? Mine said that also. How original they are. Pea size brains if you

    • Isn’t it scary how much they all think they’re some sort of prize that we should be grateful for? The exasshat actually told me and then later repeated to our youngest son “That I should have known he was in it for the long haul after he cheated because he “chose” me instead of the OW??!! When used that line on me I cut him off real fast and told him “That I was under the impression you chose me 27 years prior when we walked down the aisle so forgive me if I don’t give you kudos for choosing me after you had an affair.”

      The worst part was when he used that mindfuck on our son!

      • My ex said something very similar to our son recently! Told son that he “made a vow to be with Glad forever” but that I was the one who filed for divorce, so it was all my fault the marriage ended!

        The really scary thing is that I know perfectly well my ex really, truly believes that.

        • My EX is still telling our kids this. I don’t know if he believes it, but he sure believes that his kids should see him as a victim and martyr.

      • Oh, Cheaterssuck, I know your pain. My fucktard had an affair 8 years ago & considered leaving me for the whore-wench, but then recommitted to the marriage. Oh joy. When I found about the affair from 8 years ago this September 11th, both he AND friends of ours pointed out, “But I/he chose you!” One friend even viewed it as a positive, because he showed his love by “recommitting” to the marriage, as if the betrayal was part of some great love story. smh

        Well, aren’t I flattered. Except that he came back tainted, and I consider all sex since that point marital rape since I didn’t have informed consent about where his whatzit had been. They are vile.

        • I see some friends are moving to the “yes, I’ll talk with you at departmental gatherings but you’re not coming to my house anymore” category.

          People who say stuff like that just don’t get it. Would they be saying the same thing if you found out that you had cervical cancer caused by the HPV your husband picked up? Would you be expected to be “flattered” that he “chose” you?

          People don’t think.

          • Yes, and they have an empathy deficit themselves if they think being lied to and deceived and betrayed doesn’t matter if the cheater “chooses you.” And I don’t think anything about infidelity shows “love.” Tempest, I’m sorry you experienced that the “friends” were as clueless as your cheater.

        • Tempest, yes! My exH had an affair witha fellow grad student. I suspected, confronted, he lied and gaslighted, said it was nothing, etc, we went to MC, etc. I believed it was nothing, that I was overly paranoid. 13 yrs later, 2 kids later, yup, full fledged affair And for a while in false RC, I did think that as well… He chose me, chose to stay with me even though I did not realize there was a choice made. So, that gave me false hope. Reconnected once, can do it again.
          Except he never reconnected the first time, and he exposed me to who knows what given his unprotected sex (I got pregnant six months later, assuming it ended when he said it did).
          I was horrified when I realized I could have had an STD when I got pregnant (yes, they test you, but what if I had already had it, what damage?!)

          • I know; all these stories on CL about people who took back cheater after false reconciliation, and then get chumped again later, is what convinced me to not even bother. No f’ing way was someone going to hurt me twice like that.

            I think mine had a Mad Men-era sense of marriage–as long as he was providing financially, spending some time with me, attending a few school functions now & again, he was justified in a few extracurricular activities, just to keep marriage palatable to him (since it couldn’t provide ALL the kibbles he needed while I was raising children). I am positive that he would have kept up those extracurriculars had we reconciled, because extramarital sex was owed him for being so fabulous. It’s all about them.

              • Exactly. Mine believed that as long as he put some money in the bank, he could do as he pleased. And that it was none of my business. When he moved overseas for a job without discussing it – and I told him this was desertion – he was bewildered.

            • This is why I firmly believe all cheaters are narcissists. They lack empathy and consider themselves better than other people.

        • Dear Tempest,
          I had the same experience. My x-dogturd up and left his family behind a few days before our big vacation and moved in with OW. I then learned a few days later that this was not the first affait, he confessed he had had a multi year affair 8 years earler. He was completely indignant that I wasn’t applauding him that he had chosen me 8 years ago instead of that affair partner. What I realized at that moment was what had really happened, he decided he got better kibbles with me and kid but harbered a deep resentment towards myself and our daughter that we weren’t appreciating his sacrifice he made to stay with looser us. He also gave the line when he walked oiut on us for OW that is the CL topic – I was plan B. He was revealing I was plan B before and it worked out for me and the kid so there was certainly a possibility it could work out again. I just needed to be patient and wait while he tested out Plan A. But he just had to go off and find happiness and live with OW to see if this Plan A was right for him because he had a right to be happy. I went to see a lawyer a few days later. He was pissed. Then he tried again to get me to be his plan B by telling me that even if we did get divorced that if didn’t work out for him with OW that plenty of couples remarried after they divirced. I told him it was over and there was a snowballs chance in hell he would ever remarry me. I went NC at that point which was easy because he wanted to be left alone to move on to living new life with young OW and her young son. He got his wish, his old family is gone. We have moved to another state, his daughter changed her last name to my maiden name and we are thriving in spite of his claims I was unable to move and make a new life on my own. He looked very unhappy when I saw him in court in late December finalizing the divorce – but maybe that was because the court told him the offer I had made more than a year earlier (3 months after he left) was extremely reasonable and he would have to pay that amount in alimony – for the rest of his working life, 20 years (yeah NJ). He had been ranting for over a year that I was being greedy and he wanted his day in court to prove I was greedy. No asshat – I got what the law said I was entitled to have after 23 years of marriage.

          • My husband chose me 15 years ago then chose her last year after they had been having an affair for over a year. She pursued him for 13+ years. I’m sure she feels like she won. Well she can have him. He is definitely not.worth waiting for.

            • Seriously – what was the prize? A liar and a cheater – and she knows it. These OW delude themselves into thinking they’re special and they’re the ones who will “fix him”. Well, her day will come.

  • The cheater ex’s version of this was he could live in the basement and the kids and I would live upstairs so we both could date other people…and wouldn’t life be grand. Since he was already smearing me to anyone who would listen, that little scenario would have given him much more ammo…..In your dreams shithead.

    Instead I had the gall to take the kids and leave! How DARE I leave his fabulous self. And take the kids, my paycheck, and half the stuff from the house! Why, the very nerve! Well he was done with me! I was lowlife pond scum as far he was concerned! No more chances for me! And to top it off ……I seemed so happy. The kids were happy. Then Schmoopie dumped him because he wasn’t making enough money to suit her. (Yeah, true love!)…….Well that was all my fault too. Totally unacceptable. Finally, I refused to go to “exit” marriage counselling with him. (Hello….you told me you felt like killing me! What protection was an MC going to be?) Of course the little matter of a restraining order… matter…..he was wrongly accused!

    Well that was the last straw! I would not work with him…….I on the other hand was practically dancing in the streets…..I’m free….I’m freee………….

    • My cheater seemed genuinely hurt when I asked him to stay away from me as I packed up 36 years of memories to move out. Even on the day I left, he acted sad when I said I didn’t want to see his face. I thought it was so weird that he wanted to help me move after his actions had forced me to leave. The last thing he’d said before walking out was “When I look in my future, you’re not in it.” Why would I want to be around him after that? He wanted me out of his future, but later said we’d still have good times together with our kids. He could even see us laughing together in the future (that I wasn’t in???). Cheaterspeak is so convoluted!

      • I got the convoluted cheaterspeak, too, Lyn. The “will always care about you and love you” right next to “completely lost my emotional connection to you many years ago.. have apathy for you.” Said he was still very attracted to me in one breath and doesn’t love me “in that way” in the next. Said maintaining our friendship was a top priority and wanted to go get a beer someday (bahahaha!!!) at the same time he was lying to a roomful of attorneys about his finances…. cuz’ that’s what you do to friends. Try to fuck them over financially after you’ve done so emotionally. Cheers! The contradictions were staggering… until you understand the mind of a narcissist or Anti-Social Personality. Good for you for getting out!!!

        • I think quite Borderline (swinging between extremes without any apparent provocation), too.

        • BestPath, at least we know they all think alike. No wonder we felt so confused! We were talking to Jeckyll and Hyde. It seriously made me want to jump off the room to hear the crazy contradictions. My confusion didn’t clear up until I got away and went NC. Even though no one told me to go NC, it was my gut reaction to do so. I think that’s the first time I started trusting my gut over my head.

      • If I’ve learned anything from my cheater, it was that I was always Plan B. His actions and words lended themselves to that de-stabilizing feeling that drove me to try harder even in the face of no real reciprocation. I was doing a perpetual please pick me dance, even before I realized there was a competition. No real feeling of security but due to my own FOO issues, seemed normal. He always seemed to have his sights elsewhere, while I was trying to improve and build on what we had…well if that doesn’t spell CHUMP….

        • Oh, SeeTheLight, I understand. This was my situation too. The older and wiser I get, the more I see that my FOO issues set me up perfectly for the disaster that was my marriage, and that even in the early “honeymoon phase”, I was constantly doing the Pick Me Dance.

          You’re not alone.


            • Some of the betrayed men would do well to look up hypergamy and Briffault’s law to understand their wives’ philosophy.

              • Arnold, opportunism and lack of character are not sex-linked traits. Briffault’s Law is simply a misogynistic restatement of ‘Cheaters cheat, it’s what they do’, painted with a very broad brush to color all women as lacking character or only having an interest in monetizing relationships. With the whole Alpha Male/ Red Pill nonsense, younger women can expect a steep rise in male infidelity. If you want to know what a psychopath is planning,listen to what he accuses others of already doing.

          • Thanks Babushka. As LovedAJackass said, we know and will do better. I’ve been this way for almost 60 years, it’s gonna be a slog.

            • Agree. Not all women are like this and Briffault’s law would also seem to apply to a lot of males. Basically, what I am trying to point out is that men and women seem to be the same as regards prevalence of personality disorders, abuse and infidelity.
              But, for some reason, society seems to not have caught on as well to this, in general.
              I think a lot of guys are mystified by their wives’ cheating due to the fact that they still had the belief that women are the ” gentler” sex etc.
              I would advise any person, male or female, contemplating marriage these days to either avoid it, get a rock solid prenup and insist that there is no stay at home parent. Just too risky for either gender.

    • Come on Tessie! You don’t think that letting him living in the basement and date in plain site is a good deal? You must be one of those un-enlightened people whose name isn’t Gwyneth Paltrow! Silly girl!!

      Seriously, do these idiots ever stop and listen to the words that are coming out of their mouths? I guess they do since they are all such narcissists and they love hearing the sound of their own voice but sheesh. What utter bull!

  • I think I told XH “I’m NOT you’re Plan B” when in one of those interminable, going nowhere, non reconcilatory conversations. That’s before I understood about Plan B, and my identity as a kibble producer.

    XH obviously did understand, as I got the “I don’t think we’re finished yet” hook to make me think ‘It’s not over yet.’ But of course it was because when I suggested we try and work things out (!!) via counselling and letting time pass he was panic struck. “I can’t do that- she might not wait” as though she really was the once in a lifetime, NEVER to be repeated Special Offer that he could not ignore. (But we all know, the Sales are always on).

    Yeah, he must have thought, I would wait, because I already had. I had hung around after the EAs, porn and prostitutes, so hell, an OW, no problem.
    But as I’m here, you know I didn’t.

    I also recently had an epiphany about the role of XH in my life story. He was going to have a major part and feature to the end, and then he got demoted to a chapter or two, and now he’s a footnote (see Index: Incidental Characters). I really recommend editing your own stories, Chump Nation.

    • Love that! “Once in a lifetime NEVER to be repeated Special Offer that he could not ignor. (But we all know, the Sales are always on).” Ain’t it the truth! I believe, as well as others in my family, that the “hole” my husband decided to do has been meeting guys for a long time and I believe they are correct!

    • Mikky,

      I just LOVE this:
      “I also recently had an epiphany about the role of XH in my life story. He was going to have a major part and feature to the end, and then he got demoted to a chapter or two, and now he’s a footnote (see Index: Incidental Characters). I really recommend editing your own stories, Chump Nation.”

      Most of us have heard of ‘reframing’ and such concepts, but the way you worded it here….just superb!

      Your comment is going into my ‘keepers’ folder for daily review and putting into practice!
      Thanks so much for sharing!

      ForgeOn, Mikky….ForgeOn, Nation

    • Mikky, amazing – My Ex said this too: “It probably won’t even last with her, it will fizzle out and MY WHOLE ECONOMY will crash and I’ll end up homeless on the street!!” ha ha ha ha . But this is an OPPORTUNITY that if I don’t pursue it, I’ll never forgive MYSELF for the rest of my life!!!!!” said with tears and high narc drama of course.

      • Hi TheMuse-they’re so interchangeable-I can almost hear my XH saying those words. I think it’s the undercurrent of dependence on their new saviour for their well-being especially material. Mine said “I love her. I don’t want anything material from her” when she had already been giving him money and stuff when I had stopped. As I remarked caustically to him; ‘Sex and white goods. What’s not to like?’ when OW bought him a washing machine for his flat. Of course he also said: “She’ll suffer much more than you” which is an ominous dark red flag flying over her head. That’s probably the misogynistic NPD discard when he’s finally living in her house and/or married her.

      • Gotta love Cheaterspeak. Mine told me that even if we got divorced, there was no guarantee that he would end up with OW. Ha! 4 months later she was pregnant, snagged herself a baby-daddy.

        • OMG – hilarious thread. I was so compromised this morning, dealing with my cheating asshole.He sits right in front of me, with his fucking phone in his hands, probably (S)exting the heck out of that thing to OW, thinking I am stupid. I made a remark about it because I couldn’t stand it anymore and he tells me that I shouldn’t worry about, it is not my problem. Not my problem asshole, no it’s not my problem that you put your family on crash course? Talking about SOME entitlement here.

      • OMG, TheMuse, that sounds so much like the narc drama word salad my ex spews. After Dday, he told me, “I need someone to ride the roller coaster of my life with me, even if it crashes and burns.”

        Ha, it certainly did end up crashing and burning, and his OW got off the ride long ago.

        • I so wish that mine had (or still will) crash and burn and his “whole economy” (was me, now it’s her, why doesn’t he just wear a sign on his forehead that says moocher?) will crash.

    • Mikky, I so agree with the editing comment. Last summer I made a video to celebrate my dad’s 80th birthday and my parent’s anniversary. I put in photos of so many family and friends from decades and decades, but I completely omitted my STBX from the video. He did not deserve to be there for posterity. It felt good to snub him that way.

    • Great post, Mikky. Love the editing. I think mine was a typo. Strikeout. Delete. Bye!

    • Love this, Mikky! My editing would involve a new edition and would simply not have a chapter on the cheater. It was all a nightmare.

  • Muse, it’s amazing how “bonded” they become to some really scummy woman in no time flat! The piece of work my STBXH took up with was married to a man who traveled often. She sent my STBXH her husbands travel schedule so they could “plan” their deceit! As soon as her now X-husband was “wheels up”, she was in a hotel room waiting to be screwed by my husband! My husband came home after 3 days of screwing and announced he was “in love” with his Facebook fuck buddy and it just happened! Yeah! Right! Then later when he thought it might not be such a good idea to leave his almost 39 year marriage he claimed we wouldn’t make it if I couldn’t get over his infidelity! Mind you, no matter what he was saying during any and all false reconciliations,
    He was always still in touch with her! They are both so deceitful, disloyal and base! They truly deserve each other and I KNOW I deserve so much better! I’m better than that!

    • Roberta of course the “3 days” would have been a lie anyway, I suspect. Funny how mine said, “It was only those three days!” but he failed to mention he had known her for a year, they were phone buddies, he did 8 remodeling jobs at various properties she owned, “helped” her on the phone with her computer problems, brought her to MY house while I was at work; but since they only “talked and fucked all day long” for “those 3 days” the shit that preceded it didn’t count. And he expected me to believe that it all started in the 5 minutes that she handed him the check for the last remodeling job, and supposedly said, “I wish we had another project to work on… because I simply Adore You!!!” You see, my crime, after 16 years of loving, trusting and supporting him was I never said “I adore you” to him. Yours too, Roberta, obviously the EA started a lot sooner than the three days in the viper pit at the hotel. Indeed you are better than him! and they deserve each other. Both liars.

      • Muse, I know you are right. The “ground work” was layed long before the meet up for actual sex! This leech of a woman had stalked my family to a Disney vacation I spent a year planning, just to meet with my STBXH! She knew my grand kids were there and didn’t give a damn! And they had been Facebook buds for well over a year! Yep! She was always full of compliments and such for Mr. Sparkles! These skanks know exactly what they are doing!

        • They certainly do know what they’re doing. My husband’s ho-worker has inserted herself into our life too. Oh, and she’s full of compliments. “He’s sooo smart. He helps me with my monthly reports at work and I’d be lost without him”. From what I understand, these reports are similar to a simple word document where they enter their daily duties and jobs. What I find funny is that 1) Dipshit other woman needs help typing a word document 2) My husband is her proof-reader when he spelled both my first name and last name wrong well into our 2nd year of dating…and these are both well known, easy to spell, English words.

          In his mind I probably drove him to cheat for correcting him on how to spell my name. I’m sure it’s on the list of my offenses that he keeps neatly tallied in his head. It’s all my fault don’t you know. Poor, delicate sausage.

          • All the OP know what they’re doing. It’s like sharks smelling blood in the water. The ex loved the feeling of having a woman chase after him because don’t ya know-that means they really love you. The howorker would always talk about how wonderful he was at work gatherings to anyone who would listen; especially me. She wrote him a reference letter after I found out about the affair which of course he just had to contact her to get it-geez I was such a chump.Anyway the letter was sickeningly droning on about how he was one of the best she’s ever worked with (I know she wasn’t talking about his skills in bed).

            He also kept a running tab in his puny head about all the offenses I committed that made him have an affair. Seriously, we were all married to the same asshole!

            • Lol, yes we were. They really do seem to share a brain. Which is really too bad, because it seems to be a too tiny of a brain for even one person, let alone all of CheaterNation to share. Maybe that’s why they’re so bad at lying and keep getting caught?

            • Cheaterssuck,
              Mine kept a spreadsheet on my perceived offenses–with daily ratings and comments. Too bad he didn’t use the spreadsheet to logically plan our family’s financial future.

              • Jesus, Rockstar, that is some seriously messed up shit, a spreadsheet? Mine didn’t go that far, but on several occasions during bogus reconciliation, I woke up to an email he had sent at 3 AM listing all the ways I had disappointed him the day before.

              • Rockstarwife, mine was super cerebral too. Kept a detailed list of all the ways he was going to get OW to leave her husband and marry him so they could live their dream life together. When my counselor read it she said she thought he might be autistic.

              • : O

                That is the only cogent reply, rockstarwife. I think it would be hysterical if you created a spreadsheet for him, in retrospect. Just make all the ratings F.

              • rockstarwife, doesn’t that spreadsheet just show that your X was not in a marriage but in some sort of a business deal where he expected you to meet his expectations while he gave…nothing. And of course, Glad’s X continues to be at the far end of barely human.

      • Its comical in a sick kind of way that they equate all of their ‘love’ based on fucking, and fucking alone. Shows a pretty crap appreciation for anything else in life, and just goes to show just how vapid and shallow these twits are.
        And its also comical in a sick kind of way that they can ‘justify’ it being ‘only three days’. Fact is, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FUCKING ZERO DAYS, you arsewipe.

        • After smilingly telling me “it was only those three days,” he eventually got vewwy vewwy mad at me when I kept referring to their fuckfest. “Muse, It was NOT just about sex! It’s not like she stuck her big tits in my face you know!” (she doesn’t have them, is flatchested)… “It’s NOT like she just wagged her pussy at me!!!” I was so grossed out by this. I’m sure he didn’t speak like that to her face. But when he said, “it’s NOT about the sex!!” and I said, “then why did you have to have sex with her???” He blurted out, “yeah, that’s what she said too.” Then I guess she changed her skanky mind. Two slimeballs who deserve each other.

          • Muse, my STBXH said it was not about just sex too! So my question is, why did they spend 3 days screwing sand not to mention hours and hours of sexting??? All I know is I have wasted enough oft precious time trying to make ANY sense of this mess they created! I wish them luck though sustaining any kind of relationship once my divorce is final. I think the only thing they have in common to talk about is sex and getting rid of me!! Good luck! A real couple of idiots!

    • Yes, my husband fell in “love” with his married bar slut immediately. She swore he was her first affair. Come to find out, he was only one of many…

      • My husband went from my bed to Skank Woman’s within 24 hours. He never slept alone for ONE second. Who does that?
        One day he was madly in *love* with me, the next with her. That.Fast.
        But she’s So Special. If he marries her, it will be his seventh time the aisle. Now there’s a guy who takes his marriage vows SERIOUSLY.
        What a goofy fucker.

          • Yup. He lied when he married me. Told me I was his second wife. .I was his fifth. .made me renew our vows on our anniversary he loved me so much.

            • Really getting to Meh….it’s about damn time. Some one on here talked about fiver and I had them sketch me…made an avatar. .me syringa….this is what I kinda look like.

            • I have found that many serial cheaters lie about the number of times they have been married, because they had enough sense to realize this makes them look bad. I know I was lied to, and subsequent wives were lied to, and another forum I read has multiple examples of this. I really think that something should be done – like a national clearinghouse registry for all the states so that when you apply for a marriage license, the true numbers have to be reported. Mine even lied on the marriage license application. At that point in time, probably the chump reaction would be to ignore that red flag, but at least you would know.

              I watched a news program where a woman was trying to sue her soon to be ex for this deceit. She argued that she would never have made some of the financial decisions she made if she had known about his multiple marriages. That deceit was an intent to defraud her for financial gain. If bigamy is a crime and conning people out of money is a crime, why isn’t marrying for financial benefit and deceiving the marriage partner a crime? It seems there ought to be some type of limitation of liability, prenuptial type document that is signed, and legally compelling, as well. That way if they are marrying you for financial benefit, the marriage itself could not protect them from criminal proceedings. I believe that many of these entitled beings actually do search for a chump willing to work and pay their bills, just like a predator searches for food in nature. It is sad to think that a background search, both criminal and fact finding to check all the representations which have been made should be a normal part of the dating process — it Is expensive to have even a simple check done, and unfortunately chumps have a tendency to follow that unicorn without question.

              • My XH lied on our marriage license too about the number of times he was married before me. I found out about THREE other wives AFTER we were married in stupid and humiliating ways.

              • Agreed, Portia. I think that in many of these cases – and mine is one – the elements of fraud claims are present, such as fraud in the inducement. I am on the cusp of filing for divorce, and the remedies – of making sure that I can survive – are inadequate to address my lost investment in a 13 year relationship.

  • On my dday when I told the ex I wanted to try to work it out he first said “No” and then told me “Maybe in a while” we could try again. I told him if we were done, we were done but I left it up to him. Being the coward that he was because he didn’t want to be the one that actually ended the relationship he stayed for some of that awesome fake reconciliation; but he kept the OW on the hook for those extra kibbles. That way, just in case it didn’t work out between us he could go running back to her.

    Well that’s exactly what happened. Things didn’t work out between us and now they live together. I cut him off completely after we divorced so no kibbles and no contact from me but he did initially want to remain friends which I finally realized was just an excuse to keep using me. Of course this would also allow me to maintain his awesomeness in my life.

    Thanks but no thanks loser. Haven’t talked to him in almost a year! As for his new kibble machine I’m sure that as long as she keeps ‘chasing him’ (he likes that) and coughing up the money they will live happily ever after; LOL!

  • Ah, yes. You never forget the magical moment you realize that you are Plan B.

    While in a short-lived attempt at reconciliation, our marriage counselor turned to my wife and said, “LeeAnn (not her real name, but close enough), you need to turn to Nomar and tell him the relationship with Affair Partner No. 17 (?) is over and in the past and behind you so that Nomar has a safe place to stand while he works on your marriage.” My ex looked non-plussed and with utter deadpan told the counselor, as if explaining the electoral college to a 6-year-old, “I am committed to counseling and trying to make this marriage work, but it would not be honest of me to say that I am 100% sure that my relationship with No. 17 is over forever.”

    Wait, WHAT?

    NOW she’s super scrupulous about honesty?

    Our counselor looked dumbfounded, like this was not even in the universe of responses she’d ever encountered or thought possible. Me? I felt I’d just been bashed in the forehead with a large branch from the Crazy Tree.

    Counselor told ex she needed to get some individual counseling to sort out what she wanted before couples counseling could continue. Of course, “LeeAnn” dragged her heels getting an appointment, postponed, went once, and seemed to have nothing to say about that process. When I found out she was, even during our counseling, actively continuing her affair with No. 17, I finally wised up and and told her she had to leave.

    Plan B is no way to live. It’s putting your life on hold and giving another person (a HORRIBLE person) the power to determine whether you ever get any life at all.

    No thanks. You make me Plan B? Then I implement Plan D. As in divorce.

    • Nomar,
      Your vignette about marriage counseling made me laugh in sympathy and in horror. We should publish a book of outrageous things cheaters and certain therapists say. (My husband always gravitated to the ones (both cheaters and therapists) who couldn’t find their way out of a paper bag.) Hope you are experiencing better days.

      • I am so grateful for my councelor. I started seeing her first and after a few visits I asked cheater pants to join me.
        But beforehand I asked her what should I expect will happen!!
        She told me if he is not serious he will come 2-3 times and not come anymore! And she was spot on!! And that’s when I made up my mind to Divorce!!
        He used the counseling sessions for a platform to blameshift, to minimize the affair.He had the guts to tell the councelor that it was an incident. Not Adultery but an incident!!!

        They are all the same!!!

    • Oh, yikes, Nomar! I had the therapy two-step, too. Mr Fab tried that Plan B crap about a week after Dday. I laughed at him, and the switch was thrown-he hates my guts now. NPD, every time.

      The other day, found out the Downgrade’s kid is moving out, so they can finally shack up. Meh is all I have for that.


      PS-I haven’t been on so much lately-the ‘getting a life’ part is picking up speed, though!

      • Congratulations on picking up speed. That is great news.

        I think I am getting there, too. CL is doing what it’s supposed to do. Getting us through and onto MEH.

    • I love that Nomar-“You make me Plan B? Then I implement Plan D. As in divorce.” Awesome!

    • I think cheaters have a different definition for honesty than the rest of us.

      Just a few days ago, mine emailed, “I think I loved you more honestly than you loved me.” Huh? Like the “honesty” of violating your marriage vows with multiple people and then deceiving me for 8 years? that is loving “honestly?”

      • Tempest
        I beleive that they do beleive that they love you more….that they feel more and love more…so when those minor things like life ( job, sick parent) and children get in the way…. It takes away some of your love. They cant possibly understand that the love is not all theirs. Its a fucking sick scale of love. If its not tipping more to their side then ‘ you didnt love them as much’ very egocentric and toddler like thinking…
        And lets not forget the word’ fair’ They pull that word out like an angry kindergartener…’ Its not fair, your not being fair, fair fair fair’ stamping their little feet , clenching their fists and desparately in need of a spanking.
        I have come to realize that the world HAS TO tip in their favor….and when it doesnt …. Its your fault. Not sure where this thinking comes from… Nature/ Nuture situation… But its there and I really believe thats the root of the whole problem with most of these individuals.

        • Yep, they do believe it. Mine always said he loved me more than I loved him. Funny thing….I’m the one who showed my love, through actions, caring for him and the kids, homemaking, while he went to work and fked anything that walked. But yeah……he loved me more…..puh leeese.

        • Good point Clip. I noticed that too. My X was always using the word fair. I haven’t used that word since middle school. My kids use it all the time, they’re kids, but actual normal functioning adults, they don’t use it very often. It really shows their emotional immaturity by how much they use it. I made sure to tell him how juvenile he sounds whenever he used that word. Was pretty funny seeing how indignant he became when I told him that. Ha ha !!!

        • TheClip you are spot on! As I began to read CL this morning I hear from the other room “it’s your fault” directed at me. I have had a terrible flue for days. But he is way sicker then me, with fever and strep throat. So you see I am not sick at all, compared to him, and I must wait on him hand and foot. And of course he is sick because I must have given it to him. Smh

          Against better advise given to me on here, have fallen back into the reconciliation. While he isn’t cheating (yet) he has stepped up the emotional abuse. It’s my fault he hasn’t struck oil yet in Cali so he can leave me lol But I sm no plan B.

          Some of us are on here building inner strength, and like me, plotting escape to soon be free.

          • I understand Seeing Red. Tell me if you would…how is he amping up the emotional abuse. I believe that’s what mine is doing.

    • Wow Nomar…Similar situation here, lying in therapy is the worst…Chumps go in thinking…”OK…here it comes, some actual honesty!…People don’t lie to therapists!”…and i guess they don’t, because in a cheater’s mind lies of omission are not really lies. Right?

      • Yep, Cletus. Lying in joint counseling is the ultimate gas-lighting. Like a parent lying to a doctor about a child’s symptoms. Not only ties the Chump in emotional knots but sabotages any chance of healing. Sick, sick, sick.

        • My cheater lied in therapy. He was directly asked if there was anyone else. So of course the sessions were all about the many faults I had and when the therapist attempted to redirect back to him, he always had a handy justification.

          It was horrible to be in those sessions. I felt so beat down.

          I realize now how dreadful he was.

    • nomar, I sort of like what your counselor said: “[Y]ou need to turn to Nomar and tell him the relationship with Affair Partner No. 17 (?) is over and in the past and behind you so that Nomar has a safe place to stand while he works on your marriage.” The counselor got your X on the record, so to speak, and made it clear you needed a “safe place to stand”–seemingly an alien concept to your X and all these other narcissistic cheaters.

      • Exactly. My STBXH told me we “could have made it” if I’d been willing to run a risk – i.e., let him spend Xmas with OW while he “figured things out.” Oddly, that was a deal breaker for me. How selfish of me to expect the affair to be over as a condition of reconciling.

  • TheMuse, you express so well what so many of us have gone through! Thank you for that!

    My ex did a fantastic double-Plan-B that almost gave me whiplash. I think that when I kicked his ass out, he really thought that was temporary, he’d have his fling, then come back and we’d all be grateful he returned, or something ….

    About a year and a half post-DDay, he makes what I guess is attempt #3 to get me to ‘try again’. He asks me out for lunch, I say no, tell him I’m not his friend. He replies that he actually wants it to be a date. I say we need to talk, then. We meet for coffee, he again tells me how unhappy he is, that he’s now a much better person (he’s been attending a few therapy sessions for a few months, since the kids started refusing to see him), he deserves another chance. (No mention that DDay #2 was chance #3, and he blew all three.) So I ask him to clarify; his invitation was to a date? Yes. If that date went well and we ended up back at the house having sex, that’d be good? Enthusiastic yes. Is he still with Schmoopie? Much muttering and evasion. I persist; does Schmoopie still think he’s her boyfriend, and she’s his girlfriend? Well, yes. So, he’s trying to get me back, by cheating on her. He’s still lying and cheating to get what he wants, but I should take him back because he’s a much better person now.

    He goes into a tirade about how he couldn’t possibly break up with her before seeing whether I’d take him back, just like he couldn’t possibly have broken up with me before knowing if she’d have him, the previous year! That would require WAY more courage than he has, really, than anybody could expect him to have!

    When I try to make a gentle comment about how harmful lying is to relationships in general, he turns all cold; ‘I feel like I’m being lectured in a church’ (and he has absolute contempt for all religion, he’s above all that!).

    So first I was Plan A, then Schmoopie #1 was Plan B, but I was still Plan A, if I could up my game (chump that I am, I did!). Then Schmoopie #2 was Plan B, then I became Plan B, then he wanted me to be Plan A again, but kept Schmoopie #2 as Plan B …..

    What amazes me is not that he’d have these juvenile plans and expectations, but that he thinks any other functioning adult might go along with them ….

    • Karen,

      Regarding your comment on ‘being lecture in church,’ I can relate to being on the receiving end of the blameshifting. If post-D-Day #1, I said, ‘Will you be faithful from now on?’ or ‘I need to know what you really think,’ even in the calmest, most sympathetic way humanly possible, then I would get, ‘I feel as though I’m on trial. You make me feel like crap,’ (after taking him out for a birthday dinner and telling him that I had forgiven him).

      Regarding position in the Pick Me Dance Line, I went from Plan A (for a maximum of five minutes) to Plan B to Plan C to Plan ZZZ. When my cheater got mad at his latest affair partner, he cried to me, but hired a prostitute to ‘get over’ his affair partner. I now realize that I am Plan Nothing to him; I am just a conduit to our kids. I look forward to the day when he becomes Plan Nothing to me.

    • Holy alphabet, KarenE, he needs to get his ABC’s straightened out. LOL these narcs are all the same. Mr. Cheaterpants also said to me, when I asked, “were you even going to TELL me about this?????” he replied, “I needed to make sure it was a sure thing with her first.” Very telling. She really “won” a prize, didn’t she??? Chumplady’s explanation about narcissists explains why they absolutely DO expect the chump to be honored and pleased to be Plan B, Y or Z. Mr. Cheaterpants also said to me with crocodile tears in his eyes, “I DO still love you!! I wish I could split myself in two so one of me could be with you and the other one with her.” I would have liked to help him if I had a machete, but that wouldn’t be right… instead I helped him by kicking his ass out that night, which he never expected – so accustomed was he to me being a doormat for 16 years. He also wanted to live in the guest room and keep “dating” schmoopie. No, get the F out I said.

      • “I would have liked to help him if I had a machete, but that wouldn’t be right…” Hahahahahahahaha!!! I don’t mind cleaning the yogurt off my screen at ALL. That was great, Muse. Thank you, thank you! 🙂

      • Oh yes, the guest room plan! I told cheater pants I’d move out, after DDay #2, but he insisted the kids and I stay in the house, which made sense at least temporarily, as he was out of town for work 4 days a week at the time.

        I told him to get his own place within 2 weeks (which would have been super easy). But he stayed, sleeping in the guest room, hanging w/us, eating the food I cooked, for over 2 months, despite my actually going w/him to visit apartments. Cake, cake! I finally had to find a place for him and take him to sign the lease. Then he started sleeping there, but still spent his days at the house, ‘to be with the kids’. I had to step by step push him out and have the kids go to his place.

        Walking back from signing his lease, he said to me; ‘this is just temporary, right?’. It never crossed my mind that he was referring to the separation, I thought he meant his living in a cheap one-bedroom apartment until we decided to sell the house. I said, ‘of course it’s temporary!’.

        • LOL… mine had to show me all the suitable apartments… He wanted me to approve of the place he finally took… I wanted to as well because I knew he would be living there a mighty long time. He thought it would be for 9 months… 4 years later and no move in sight. He is in a decent penalty box and has turned it into a filthy place. We are divorced and my house, which used to look like the Clampets lived there looks great.. Life is good.

      • My STBXH tried that mess too. “I’m coming to see James and I am going to stay in the guest room on Tuesday night” the email said. When he called me, I told him he would NOT be staying in the guest room. This was done after I had spent the entire holiday weekend watching his car stay parked at OW’s house every night via the GPS tracker I had a PI put on his car. I mean, he would actually go to therapy and then to her house. Unreal. NO! I wasn’t going to be that Chump!

    • ” I think that when I kicked his ass out, he really thought that was temporary, he’d have his fling, then come back and we’d all be grateful he returned, or something ….”

      I am certain that’s what X thought with me! In fact, there was a time during post-divorce and after AP dumped him, when he kept claiming he was going to prove to me that I could trust him, he said almost that exact thing. That what had happened was he had wanted to be single temporarily (NO, he wanted to be with AP) and then got it out of his system and wanted what he had back. It was a surprise to him that this statement did not do anything to win back trust.

      During the month of limbo, when I discovered the EA and before he admitted to the PA (it probably was PA then too, honestly) and he was going back and forth in deciding what HE wanted, he said several times, “Maybe in six months or a year, we can get back together.” Every time he said that, I always asked what made him think that after putting me through this that I would take him back? That I’d still be waiting and wouldn’t have found someone else? He never would answer that.

    • Karen E, your description of all the different plans your ex had for you made me laugh! How ridiculous!!!

    • These people have the emotional maturity of toddlers. That is, they literally cannot live ‘on their own’ and ‘always have to have someone’ – most likely because they’re so stunted in every way that they cannot fend for themselves. Hence the constant need for a Plan B. Their world drops out from underneath them if their intended Plan B decides to take the toys and go home.

  • About a year before D’day when asked by friends how X and I meet. I responded “bible college” X responded, ” yeah she was plan B” I do not even want to think what plan A was because I had alway thought it was the Salvation Army chick he gave sunflowers to in music class. Now I highly doubt it.
    So if X now wanted to come back would that then make the kids and I plan”D”?

    • Yes Thankful, I didn’t consider it much at the time but XH had other contenders lined up for his wonderfulness, when we got together. Looking back I think he was being quite strategic about his choice- the most pliable, the wealthiest. I was probably the most gullible! I recall him being upset that I had reduced my working hours (income) before we even lived together. He obviously foresaw a shortage for him! He was also very upset when he found out I had come into some money after I left him which might explain the pathetic periodic attempts at contact since the Divorce- which of course I ignore.

  • After catching him the first time texting and making plans to meet some girl, i foiled his plans by calling the strumpet to inform her he had lied about being single….However I was incredulous to find out he still had the audacity to call and text her back to maintain her as plan b since “it looked like I was leaving him”. It looked like cake eating was going to bite him in the ass. But!!!!Instead of doing right by me he continued his bullshit!!! I was amazed at how crass and heartless it all seemed. Just the week before he compared our relationship to The Notebook but now he was hellbent on destroying it. I was stupid, I stayed because I thought “oh well he didn’t have a chance to cheat I stopped it”, but for a cheater plan b is a way of life!!!

  • Cl spoke for me today.

    Regarding her statement on competing ‘for the chance…to be primary kibble,’ my cheater told me that if I apologized to him and the kids (for him cheating on me and breaking up our family?) and got psychiatric treatment (because he said I was depressed (he knows virtually nothing about psychology but claims that he can write a book on it) and made his life miserable), he might consider our relationship tolerable–or at least allow me to talk to him, the Great. He also informed that he longed to be a bigamist–I could be low-grade secondary kibble. Guess I could get some attention from the Great when OW (primary kibble) was getting her nails done.

    Regarding the ‘one low-performing source of kibbles (you there too focused on your job or children),’ my cheater vacillated between ‘You focus too much on your academic work/the children/etc. That’s just wrong! (I should be front and center in your life at all times, even though I focus on you only when I want something and prostitutes and affair partners are not readily available)’ and ‘You are a lazy, incompetent mother, wife, student, employee. (Talking to others), Look, people, how do I even put up with her (chump)?’ There is no pleasing borderline narcissistic cheaters.

    Now cheater is saying that he’s not sure that he wants to come back–he enjoys being free and feels better than ever. All about him. Never mind the family, his family, that is suffering. I’m almost glad that he has ‘progressed’ in his self-knowledge and enlightenment. Hopium is exhausting; I’d rather know that I am dealing with someone who, in chronological years, is nearly old enough to get senior benefits, but in emotional years, is still playing in the sand box, grabbing toys from others and pouting. I’m looking forward to ‘meh’ and cheater-free days.

    • I also got the “you’re depressed so I had to cheat” line. I wasn’t depressed, I was pissed at how self-absorbed he was. And if I really was depressed, wouldn’t a loving spouse support me and get me help?

      • I get so tired of cheaters throwing around the “depressed” word. I’m depressed, so I can cheat. The kids are depressed, so I can cheat. The dog is depressed, so I can cheat. Or better yet, let’s blame shift – you’re depressed, so I can cheat. These people are masters at insisting there’s a profound link between infidelity and a mood disorder. That kind of news makes chumps feel bad. A very bad psychological disorder beyond the cheater’s control has been the cause of all misery. Climbing into some skank’s bed is just the treatment they need. They feel better now – see, there is a link.

        • When I got suspicious and told him (mistake) he said he was “depressed”. Um no he wasn’t. But I believed him for about 2 days. I bought him a book on Amazon about treating depression naturally…because I didn’t want him to lose any, ehem, functions. How chumpy was that. The telling sign was how he reacted to the book. He was pissed. “I’m not reading that damn book!”

        • My ex Said he was depressed and had to.find himself. Hr was invited ti a family BBQ with OW family. He was still.with me at the time. What kind of family encourages an affair with a married man while OW is still married. I guess they didn’t like son in law and was hoping for a new one.

    • “he might consider our relationship tolerable–or at least allow me to talk to him, the Great.”

      That’s so hilarious, made me laugh out loud! RockStarWife, your comments about your ex saying he enjoys being free reminded me of when my ex told me he felt so happy when he was traveling with his married coworker AP, but when he came home to me he just felt anxiety. Well duh, you feel anxiety because what you’re doing is wrong. So I guess if I’d have been happy to see him after he got back from trip with schmoopie, I would have won the pick me dance.

      Another lovely thing — the weekend after he left there was a post on his AP’s sister’s FB page that they all had a wonderful time with my ex at her child’s birthday party. In fact they thanked him so much for buying all the alcohol! So my ex decimates our family, then feels sorry that he’s alone the weekend, after so joins in AP’s big family birthday party. That went over like a lead balloon with our kids.

  • The closest I got to this was he wanted the divorce to be “amicable”. This so he would have no guilt. After months of emotional cruelty and abuse there was no way i was going to be amicable. Also, I no longer trusted him. He hated me so much he didn’t even want me as plan B or even Z.

    • Oh sweetie, thank goodness you were not Plan B or Z or quadruple Z! It wouldn’t of felt any better.

      My daughters and I were wait listed…felt nauseating. It’s one thing for a spouse to be PlanB, but when you have kids…you hurt for them too. To the N’th degree and beyond 🙁

      The sooner you rid yourself of the mess, the better. Although I’m sure it was still hurtful, I assure you it would have been even more hurtful to be on a wait list.

      Amicable?!? I hope you waved buh-bye with you middle finger up in the air!

      Hugs to you Lina.

      • Seeing the kids wait-listed is heart-breaking, isn’t it? My ex didn’t even ask for 50-50 shared time w/the kids (which is default custody here), was fine w/having them about 15% of the time. Then work got quiet and he couldn’t see OW as much (he wasn’t working in her city 4 days a week any more), and he wanted them to come over more. Then suddenly he was supposed to go out of town for work again, he would seem them only 2x a month, for a day and a half each time, for a YEAR. And he went, with NO thought, discussion or concern about what this would mean for his parenting.

        The kids accepted all this (and had never wanted to be w/him half the time, negative unpleasant person that he is). They accepted that he’d be a ‘provider’, and a fun visitor, but NOT their ‘real’ parent any longer. Their words.

        But when his project ended earlier than expected, he came back and wanted everything back to as it was before. Wanted the kids over at his place that 15% of the time, wanted to discipline them and make decisions about their day-to-day life.

        They refused to be Plan B! Initially refused to see him at all. With time, and my making him get a family therapist for the 3 of them, as he kept insisting I fix this, they ceded a bit.

        They now see him once a month, for dinner and a movie, usually. And it doesn’t look like that’s going to change, ever.

        Very sad for my kids, but very healthy, on their part, I think. Every child deserves to be their parent’s Plan A, always!

        • Mine too thought it was my problem as well as his to fix with our child. I did try with a couple different therapists to no avail. Daughter tried too but in the end wouldn’t see him anymore. Finally in preparation to taking me to court (since this had to be my problem and my influencing her) we had mediation where the mediator was flabbergasted at the timetable of what he had put our daughter through and took him down. Wish the therapists had been as helpful instead of dilly dallying around him. Very sad for my daughter that she doesn’t have her dad and at the same time she is very healthy to not want to fit in with his continued pernicious plan of the OW and her four kids.

        • It is heart-breaking, KarenE… my youngest daughter was close to her dad and she suffers so much because he has had virtually no contact with her for months. Yes, she is mad at him and he knows it but he just can’t seem to make himself do the hard work that needs to be done to make things right with her; he is too weak to handle her anger so he avoids her completely. She sees his “selfies” on FB with his new clothes and cars, all of his new female FB “friends” and cries herself to sleep at night. This hurts more than anything that he did to me, I would give anything to take the pain away from her.

          • Lizzy, I’m so sorry. That IS heartbreaking. Something similar happened to one of my nieces. Her dad dropped her like a hot potato when he remarried and had another daughter. Years later he divorced his second wife, then came back to my niece (who was in her 20’s by then) and blamed his lack of contact on the “stepmonster.” My niece said it was too late for him to try and have a relationship with her. She said he’s just a jerk who blames his poor choices on everyone else.

        • I don’t know – but if your kids insist that they don’t want to see him of their own admission – it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that you’d force them to do so. Getting therapists involved just makes things 100x worse and makes the child think ‘My father is a bad person, but my father thinks I’ve got something wrong with me because I don’t want to see him’ – just sets the poor child up for future spackling, really.
          Thats one thing I never understood – but to be fair I’m the kind of person who believes that sure, its fine to have a relationship with both parents (provided that the split is amicable) – but if its being actively harmful (and yes, infidelity IS harmful), it actually works to the child’s detriment to be having a relationship with the harmful parent. I know the courts don’t agree with me on that point – but aren’t they all about making sure things are best for the child(ren) concerned?

          • Well, the cheating spouse can drag the chump back to court screaming “parental alienation,” asking for a reduced support order and a move to 50/50 or better. Courts, in general expect that all parties live up to the custody agreement. Many people have no control over the amount of contact with the cheater and the AP once a custody agreement is put in place by the court. And while it may be painful for kids to relate to the cheating parents, it may not harm them psychologically, so long as the other parent is “good enough,” as psychologists would say. What might harm them is being in a tug-of-war over custody for years on end or, in adulthood, regretting cutting off the cheater parent.

            A good counselor can help kids learn to put up healthy boundaries and develop the resilience to manage visitation and would make it clear to kids that there was and is nothing wrong with them.

            • I never quite thought of it being used against the chumped partner as leverage for more custody via parental alienation, but it makes perfect sense.
              And you are correct with your last statement. Guess it mainly does depend on the individual situation, really. I guess I’m just looking at it from a protective point of view from someone who’s clearly harmful.
              (Look who’s learned something today? Thanks LaJ)

              • It’s very individual. I wanted help for my daughter to cope with what was, not for it to seem like she was the one with a problem for not going along nicely. A second therapist was better, trying to help her deal with x’s emotional abuse when she was with him. The mediator (which backfired on x) was so validating and I’m thankful we don’t have to follow the court order throughout her high school years.

          • Actually, Lania, the therapy worked out great! Because it was family therapy, not therapy for the kids themselves, it was clearly intended to help the relationship, not ‘fix’ the kids. The therapist made it a very safe place for the kids to express their experience and feelings to their dad. They got to clearly see him be himself; self-centered and demanding, with the therapist as witness. And it did protect me against any claim of alienation. The therapist validated their reactions, and helped my ex cope with his frustration without lashing out at us. The monthly visits seemed fair to me; this guy is not a monster, just a pathetic excuse for a father. And the kids keep the contact to a minimum (which might not be the case if he took me to court about not seeing them), while getting some positive attention from him.

          • I completely agree. My daughter also became Plan B – the OW he left us for and moved in with had a young son and asshat initially tried to convince our daughter OW was “just like your mother only younger and thinner” and daughter told him to fuck off – OW was nothing like her mother because for starteres her mother would have an affaire with a married man. Then asshat started avoiding angry teenage daughter. But of course it was all my fault I turned her against him. At first he saw his daughter 1x a week for dinner, ~ 1 hour. A fewe months later it was once every other week. Then it quickly dropped to once a month because daughter would give kibbles and refused to ever meet OW and her kid. It has now been 6 months since jackass has seen his kid. In the divorce he didn’t want any parental custody, I have 100%. The only custody right he wanted was 50/50 legal and I had it spelled out that legal was limited to major medical and college admission process. I know he won;t be there for the college process either. However, I think my daighter is better off that he disappeared. She didn’t miss him when he left because he had been an absentee parent anyway. By him disappearing there was no pick me dance for her and he can’t send confusing signals. It makes it very clear – he is a jerk who abandoned his family. I think when things are straight forward like that it is easier to emotionally process than the confusing I’m occasionally in your life when it is convenient for me.

        • I had this notion I wanted to share with you chumps. We feel hurt that when the husbands leave and they turn into douchy dads we are: 1) surprised and 2) hurt for our kids because they are missing their dad or their fake dad because it is unimaginable for us that we would ever intentionally do something that would hurt our children let alone the damage caused by abandonment. Remember mindfucking needs a receptacle and kids are very good little receptacles

          We are failing in our trust they suck mantra. We are not trusting that they suck through and through… we somehow think they genetically got a pass on the sucking part of being a dad. They did not… they suck through and through like a stick of rock (British candy) Their toxicity hurts your kids too. They are toxic disordered beings… not just with you, every where, at every time. They are a stick of rock of toxicity and disorder and no matter where you lick or who licks, it is still there. They suck from the core from every hair on their head to their nasty toe nails and every thought and word they utter.

          I know that my XH hurt my eldst daughter by triangulating her and me and I was too stupid to see it. (I now wish I had tossed him sooner.) And for those of us, who have been left with the daily, hard, physical, and mental work of raising a child in our exhaustion, we lose sight of the fact that our kids are SO, SO much better with us, even as an exhausted parent, than they would be with douche dad. For those of you who have the misfortune of having XH still doing the fake’ I am a good dad’ thing, with the douchy new woman, there is a whole lot of angst involved with that on so many levels for you and your kids.

          I got lucky my XDouche was never very involved with my youngest or my middle. He just went through the motions. My youngest was and still is living at home with me. She hardly noticed he was gone. Yup, I was shocked initially but life became so much easier… Now I think I am going in to plant a kiss on her lazy, sleeping teenage body and whisper how much I love her. You are MIGHTY MOMs too Chump Nation.

          • A stick of rock has a word that runs through it’s length, so every bite has the same word emblazoned on it. Just like cheaters are toxic with every bite, a very good analogy.

    • Unfortunately, the way these narcissists define “amicable” is clearly a job for the Universal Bullshit Translator:

      “I’ll take anything I want. I’ll return to take more as often as I want. I will scream and cry foul if you expect to keep even a penny of the money you earned. My money and assets are, of course, to remain mine–as they always have been. Furthermore, you will speak of me as wonderful and charming to all who ask, while I will tell everyone that you are a horrible shrew and a psychotic mess who has ruined my life. I will treat the children poorly, and you will take the blame for any anger, guilt, or problems they have. You will care for all their needs, and make sure that they are available for me whenever I want. Some months I will want them all the time. Other months, I will, without notice, have not a moment to spare for them. I can, of course, change any agreements made during our divorce on a whim. You will thank me frequently and publicly for all that I’ve done and continue to do for you.”

      • Eilonwy,
        Spot on. Thanks for sharing Cheater’s Contract for Chump Employment. I suspect that almost all of these cheaters use this template. Mine added in the footnote, ‘I, Cheater, will take my bed when I suddenly move out, leaving Chump ‘bedless’ because I bought it before we married and am thus entitled to it, and I will take the wedding present of the unopened box of luxury bedsheets we got from her family after we married because she no longer has a bed and I want the sheets and am thus entitled to them.’ Cheater logic and ethics.

        • It is all the same playbook, My wife and her boyfriend took the bed while I was at work but had the audacity to complain that my buying a cheap cot to sleep on made her look bad. Fast forward 6 months and I have saved enough to afford a bed then find out that the frame and sheets I had from college were missing, when questioned I was told ” You didn’t have any way to use them so I took them too” Entitlement is amazing

  • My STBX sat in our MC office trying to explain to the MC that he needed to hang onto the OW just in case I kicked him out. I sat there shaking my head at this idiot I married. I still tried to reconcile because I was not willing to give up on our 20 year marriage. 3 years later, the selfish jerk is fighting me for everything he can get in our divorce, including wanting to take my down comforter off my bed. He was not worth the time and effort I put in on him or trying to save our marriage, now he is just proving it.

    • Wow. I’m sure he can’t imagine you with anyone but him, so why not chastely marry Jesus instead?

    • Mind told I’d be okay because I’d make friends. He had it all planned out for me. When my father dies I can rent out his apartment…. Oh yeah, I’m really looking forward to the day he dies so I can rent his apartment. The callousness blows me away.

      • Yeah, my cheater said I’d just end up taking care of my mom for the rest of my life, so my need for money is less than his. My dad’s still alive, and my mom doesn’t need looking after, but that’s where he wanted to put me, because I am less of a human being than he is. Classic narcissist.

        • ML, amazing how they also want to dictate and control where the chump ends up after THEY have blown your world apart. My cheater said I should move to another state so I could be near my kids, or I should move into a “little apartment with no yard to mow,” so he and OW could move into the house I paid 90% of the expenses for over 12 years. Guess what? I still live in the house. OW bought a bigger better house and his opportunity of a lifetime for an even chumpier chump than me came true for him, oh joy.

        • My Dad was 90 years old at the time, in frail health after battling prostate cancer, and early stage Alzheimer’s. He cries now and asks where he is and if he’s coming back to help us. It breaks my heart.

          My Dad’s a WW II vet and has worked hard all his life. He was so good to my EH. Better than his own father that also walked out on his wife and family. EH will never ever be the man my Dad is.

          • Lina, my ex lost both his parents young, his mother as a child and his dad when he was a teenager. Of course, in the early days, I felt bad for him and was thrilled to share my parents with him and they both adored him. It took me a long time to understand that he used his misfortune for sympathy from Everyone. Even when it became obvious that his “victim act” was truly just that, an act (and probably contributed to his growing up to be needy, angry and entitled) I still felt badly for him and cut him lots of slack because, hey, he lost his parents and that must have been horrible for him. But after comparing his behavior to things I read about NPD and BPD, I realized that he was not trying to move on in his life or get help for his abandonment issues or even the pain and anger which naturally comes when a person experiences such losses. Instead, he stayed stuck and used his childhood misfortune to gain attention and minimize the losses of others. It was always, “well, you can’t possibly understand.” I tried to understand, even when the drinking was out of control and the drug usage became rampant. My dad, an alcoholic himself and in recovery and immersed in AA, also attempted to help but he didn’t want help. He wore his “victim” status like a crown which all of us around him should bow to. His affairs were his due, you see, for his life being ruined. Everyone owed him. God owed him. My mother died and he expected to be pitied and consoled more than me…dammit! Even after so long, I feel bad for saying this because it sounds so insensitive but it is incredibly hard to live with someone demands their feelings be put above yours or those of your kids because, “Goddammit, my life has been terrible and you will never understand!” I tried to. I suggested counseling and he refused. I suggested church and he scoffed. I begged him to get into recovery and he went ballistic. When my dad died a few years after my mom, he didn’t even attend the funeral. His gf didn’t want him to. My dad had loved him as a son for 20+ years but his gf was more important. I don’t get that, especially if he needed love so much but I have learned being here that is part of the skein of fuckuppedness that I will never unravel…and shouldn’t try. My prayers for your father. <3

            • Thank you. X

              My EH never said much about his father but maybe inside his feelings were the same as your ex’s. Maybe that’s where his sense of entitlement comes from. His whole family is selfish and self absorbed.

            • Beendoneengone, I am replying here to your apology below. You have nothing to apologize for! Every word you wrote resonated with your loving heart that you gave to someone with a black dark hole in the place where a human soul was supposed to be. If you think you sounded “bitchy” you didn’t – I and many others here completely understand. This is the very essence of the cheater/narc entitlement… you give give give, your whole heart and soul and all your earthly resources, not because you expect a reward.. but then not only they NOT reciprocate, they don’t even recognize your sacrifice because Narcissists truly believe they are better than you, and they deserve everything you gave them.

          • Precious Lina,

            Hugs and love to you and your precious Dad. My Dad is 89 and he, too, loved my STBX as his own son. (My Dad has 4 biological sons who have remained close all their lives, so it was not out of ‘need to fill a void’ that he loved STBX like a son.)

            In the early days of our marriage, my STBX always called MY Dad for suggestions, advice and counsel. NEVER called his own Father—Why? His own Father is a filthy, lying, cheating piece of scum, just like my STBX became.

            It really is so sad that these cheaters do not value ones like your Dad and mine that love with all their hearts and embrace those that marry into the family, loving them as their own flesh. It is such a gift to have a Dad like yours and like mine.

            ForgeOn, Lina and Lina’s Dad….ForgeOn with LOVE……Love to all…..

            • My dad passed away six years before d-day#1 with Cheater #1, whom he treated as a son. I wish dear old dad had been around when all hell broke loose, so he could’ve (and would’ve!) kicked C#1’s hairy ass. My dad did not tolerate bad treatment of his friends or family. He was a loyal, straight arrow kinda guy. Man, I sure miss my dad.

              • I’m really sorry that I came off as so bitchy everyone. Its truly not the way I am. I think that this part hits a nerve. I really tried so hard to be sensitive to his needs. Even though I had small kids I tried to make the Holidays less stressful bc they were a trigger for him. I thought that, gradually, if I loved him enough & was supportive enough, he’d be more at ease in family life. For a time, he was…or acted like he was. But it never stopped & it became exhausting. We broke up a few times over these issues but I loved him & we got back together. For a while, it worked. But some things are too ingrained & some obstacles to difficult to overcome. I became, I think, a mother-figure, a room mate, a soft place to land. But there was only concrete for me. We were still married when my dad died, although I had threw him out. I just never thought he’d disrespect my dad that way. I think that, no matter how crappy they treat us, we never believe they will hurt the kids, grandkids, the other people who love them so much & who think are loved in return. Its not in us & its so foreign to us that we are shocked & numbed by their cruel dismissal of these loving people. As angry & hurt as I still get when something triggers those memories I do not have a right to blast off like that. It makes me look like what he has become & I never want to be so…soulless. Through my experience & bc I possess what he does not, I feel empathy with all here & deeply apologize for my brash words. And I am so sorry for every loved one of every one of you whose family got caught in the crossfire of these empty people. Bless you all.

              • I will always miss my Dad and if he’d been around when ex went off the deep end my Dad would have disappeared his sorry ass. Nevertheless, it was my Dad’s voice that helped me get out. Those we love and who loved us, they live on in our memories, I can still hear Dad when I need to.

            • My Father (83 years old) also loved XH like a son and his own flesh and blood. I sometimes joked that I thought he loved XH more than me. My father was to XH what his biological father never was…accepting, loving, and wise. My father was gutted by my XH’s deception and feels like he lost his son.Telling my father about the behavior of my XH was one of the hardest things I have ever done, and his reaction to the news will always be a difficult memory. My Father’s memory is slowly leaving him, but he is beyond sad that the man he thought would always love and take care of me could do such a horrible thing. Makes me hate the XH even more!

          • Lina, my dad was a WWII veteran as well. He passed away in 2005 after I spent about 10 months taking care of him. He was the best man in world in my opinion, humble, thoughtful, and caring. Before cheater and I married, he told cheater that he was the son he never had and he loved him like a son. He never said that to my sisters husband. When I count the number of years cheater says he was cheating back, if he’s told the truth, it started while I was taking care of my dad. That really pisses me off. I took care of my mom for the next 5 years – she was in poor health and legally blind. My distraction was his advantage, I guess. Anyway I wish more than anything that my dad was here to hug and love me through this. And to kick cheaters ass verbally or physically cause that’s exactly what he would have done.

          • So sad all! The XPOS told people around him (lives in another state than me) that our split was amicable, that we are still friends and talk and the reason for our split was because I had to stay in my state to care for my elderly father. ALL LIES!!! He ‘forgot’ to say that our split was exclusively because he is a liar and a cheater and did so while being with me for at least 2 1/2 years that I know of. I truly believe he cheated the whole time now that the fog has cleared!

            • Oh yes, and Lina……I forgot to mention that my XPOS will NEVER be the man my dad is either!! He has no idea about commitment, dedication, loyalty, etc. He is only well versed in lying, cheating, gaslighting, etc.
              Anyway, back to my point. My mom has been passed for almost 24 years and my committed, dedicated, loyal father has not missed one day of going to the cemetery. That’s his solace. Yes, it’s very true. Not. One. Day.!!!

              • My heart goes out to all of you.

                I think it’s no coincidence that my EH chose to leave when my Dad was ill and vulnerable.

    • I was told that if I didn’t take him back, that it was all over for me and I would have to resign myself to never getting any sex again (with anyone)! Because you know, at 47 I was over the hill and no other man could possibly be interested in me…

    • A nun??? Oh, that’s rich. I’m sure the Catholic Church is glad to have your ex out there recruiting for their holy orders.

  • My Cheater EX actually said this to my 12 yr old daughter- days before he moved out. “Maybe I’ll come back and fight for mom” – and I just stood there and said nothing – talk about me being a major CHUMP!

    Seriously?? fight for me now jackass, not after you leave and find out that your 20 something Skank will leave you once she sees you for what you are!!! uhrrr I was so stupid!!

  • When I finally wised up to the fact of my xW’s cheating ways, I wrote her a letter giving her a choice. Either A) End the adulterous relationship and convinced me that door is firmly shut to all other men or B) Loose my friendship as I am unwilling to be just another one of her male “admirers.”

    The letter ticked her off predictably. And I was essentially told to take my friendship and shove it. Ha!

    Well, it is better to walk away than to be treated like a commodity. I had no interest in being “collected” like another one of Prof. Slughorn’s prized pupils that he so loved to collect in the Harry Potter series.


  • This is just an example that the cheater is insecure. Monogamy would mean that they have no insurance or back up plan. Then they would have to be who they really are and that’s scarry to them.

    • Tennis, this is very true. From what I’ve been able to sleuth out and deduce, I am the ultimate Plan B, and there is a very predictable process to the madness:
      (1) My cheater uses me to practice his charm before he moves on a new target. These are the days that he phones or texts to ‘touch base’. As ‘friends’. He tries out his new quips and lines to gauge their impact. He’s actually quite a funny guy, when he wants to be.
      (2) My cheater makes initial overtures to the new target, assessing her kibble quotient. If they are low, he is still my ‘friend’. If they are high, however, Cheater goes to
      (3) Trying to hook me again. Why? Because sick fuck that he is, he can’t fully enjoy the company of other women unless he feels like he is screwing me over. (He ‘loves sneaking around and breaking rules’ he told me last year when I met him against court orders to give him his bank card – I realized in that moment that this applies to all aspects of his life.) Once he has convinced himself I am dreaming of reconciliation
      (4) He will not call for a few days, all the while lavishing attention on his new conquest, becoming everything she wants in a man. (She likes beards? He’ll grow one. Doesn’t like beards? He shaves it off. Has a thing for motorcycles? Let him hit the old internet and ask for price quotes – which didn’t work out so well when he found out my credit score wasn’t there to finance a bike any longer. Can’t buy a bike due to crappy credit? Quick, sign up for one of the shyster credit repair sites.) When it looks like this one may be The One, don’t forget to
      (5) Call me and manufacture a reason to throw a loud cursing blaming fit because I am such a bitch that it’s no wonder he couldn’t wait to get away from me and he will never call me again EVER and he can’t wait to sign those divorce papers.
      Finally, usually in a week to 10 days, when New Conquest has run from his inconsistent stories and obvious malfunctions or, as is more typical of the type of woman he attracts, asks for money to pay her electric bill or needs a little gas money or insists that they go and buy that bike TODAY –
      (6) Drop her like she’s as hot as he told himself she was, and immediately call and tell me how he is such an ass, he hates that we just can’t get along, but he’s trying so hard to make himself into the man that I deserve, he’s really trying but he’s just not there yet but please don’t give up can we still be friends?

      Awhile back, some of you fellow Chumps probably questioned my sanity when I said I still monitor his internet and phone activity from a post-unicorn continent away. But by doing so I’ve been able to determine that the process I’ve described happens over and over again, usually taking about a month to work through all the steps. It has helped me to understand why he had all those mood swings when we were still married – he was cheating in some way or another for much longer than I knew. I just watch the Kabuki theatre unfold, safe in my home thousands of miles away. And I laugh, because the Truth will set you free. And if there are times when I am able to sow seeds of doubt about his awesomeness or bring him up short at strategic times with an expression or an idea that he asks himself why it sounds so familiar, well, I think I paid for that privilege in advance.

  • I never got the plan B treatment. There was the ” I had no clue” stage, then Dday #1, then “We’re working on it ” and then Dday #2 When I found out he was still seeing her. I told him “If you can’t choose between the woman you already chose and someone else, then you’ve already made your choice.”

    I DID get the “let’s be friends so I can cry on your shoulder” when his marriage to OWife went belly up. I had a long chat with the person who gave him my number and then had my number changed.

  • When we were dating in grad school, H told me he had a ‘portfolio theory’ of dating: The more he dated the more likely he was to find the right one. I thought I was the ‘winner’ when we got married. I didn’t realize for years that he had expanded his portfolio. I was the primary earner and mom. I gave him respectability. She was the sex and travel partner. Diversification is fine for stocks, but killer for a marriage. I filed last Oct, he is still in the house. He wants to keep living together and coparent. My lawyer says she can’t force him to leave. This is plan hell.

    • Yeah, it’s hard to wrap your mind around the fact that somebody you married and committed to with the whole “till death do you part” thing might always be looking for a Plan B and even Plan C, etc.

      My ex did that. And then offered the “pitty me ” line about it being her “insecurity”. Whatever, right?

      You can’t fix that. When the going gets tough, real or imagined, there is going to be a Plan B, and she was letting me know that. That’s what I figure, anyway.

      In reality, it was more about opportunity, though. If a Plan B presented itself, then looking for an excuse to be “insecure” started. lol

      I can laugh about it now.

    • Ouch, breathe, you have to put up w/his still living there? Will that at least end when the divorce is final? Would your moving out be the only solution? This sounds soul-sucking!

    • Oh breathe, I feel your pain. I’m finally getting all my ducks in a row to file for divorce and the atty told me that I can’t force him to leave the house & for me not to leave/move out of the house with my son. I can file for exclusive use of residence in the divorce but it does not mean that the judge will grant it because there is no record of domestic violence during our 17 year marriage. The courts do not care about emotional abuse. I have been trying to get the asshat out for months & he won’t leave!! Ugh!! He just tells me to leave & leave my son with him. Riiiiiiight…… that would ever happen. Some days, I don’t know how much more I can take of having to look at his remorseless, cheating face. And it does feel like plan hell. But I know meh is coming-I am requesting in the divorce to sell the house and a car (or two) and then Me & little man can be on our way. I don’t think stbx ever considered me plan B-he just used me & the baby as the home base.

    • NOOOO, breathe–get the hell out of there if you can’t make him leave. You are being forced to live with your (emotional) rapist. That is not okay, nor the key to a long life. Sell off all his shit on Craig’s List to afford an apartment deposit, and buy gift cards with the grocery money for a few weeks.

      Nothing is worth staying in your living situation.

    • This is the suckiest thing of all – at least with most cheater types they’ll move out ‘to be with their OM/OW’.
      The only way you’re gonna be probably able to force him out is by playing hardball and selling the house.
      You’re in a horrid place to be – because if you leave it can be spun as abandonment and thus relinquishing your right over the house (thats probably why hes still there, he sees whats in it for him). You have to weigh up your options – whether the 1/2 share of the house is worth being with your emotional abuser for a bit longer (And sometimes, unfortunately, its the only way to be).
      The only advice I can give is for you, if you decide to stay, is to ignore, ignore, ignore his crap! (And make sure your treasured possessions such as heirlooms, and divorce evidence are not in the house, so if he decides to narc-rage, he can’t destroy any of these things). Either that, or spin something that sounds like a sweet deal for him leaving – but he’d probably be clued in enough to know it for what it is.

      • And also – no more paying for his shit! Hes a room-mate at best, and if he can’t pay his half-share, he is to leave. He can bloody sleep on the lounge, too.

        • And, do not EVER make and share a meal with him under that roof! I can’t imagine how horrid it would be to look at shark-eyes every day like that.

  • I never got cheater fave “ILYBINILWY”, but I did get this. When I asked if he was going to end it with his skank after DDay 2 and he said no because “if we can’t fix this I want to pursue a relationship with her”, I was done. I told him to pursue on, because I was finished and suggested that he write down what he says to me so that he can go back and read it and see how ridiculous it sounds.

    Of all the dumb, and out right cruel things he said to me after I found out he was cheating, this tops my list. And it was the straw that broke the camels back.

    And realizing that he plagiarized this line from page 2 of the cheater’s handbook is one more thing to help me TRUST THAT HE SUCKS!!!

    • Expat, that is the EXACT thing STBXH said to me. He had to stay in touch with OW so “if things didn’t work out with [me,] he could “fix it” with OW.” I Was stunned. Absolutely no awareness that I couldn’t live in an obstacle course, where if – in his mind – I missed a hurdle, he’d be right back on the Internet or a trip with her. Because he picked a needy OW who would never go away.

  • “Because I don’t know if you can forgive me.” He says this to me SO MUCH. omg. And he tells me NOT TO BE IN A HURRY to move on to another relationship ( even though he has a girlfriend 10 years younger). But the clinger for me was when he said: JUST DON’T MARRY AN ASSHOLE.

    OMG. Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt.

    • Two months after our separation, STBX found out I was going on a date, and warned me to be safe.
      WTF?! this from the person who endangered my health and life (and maybe our daughter) since he had unprotected sex with AP#1 just a few months before I got pregnant. I simply responded that after what he had done it would be a long time before I trusted anyone.

      As an aside, I knew it was too soon to date, but I wanted to practice and maybe have a few nice dinners.

    • Whenever he says “I don’t know if you can forgive me,” you should say “I don’t know if you can be sorry for what you’ve done.”

  • “You’re not capable of forgiveness HM!!!!!!”

    Yep, that’s the problem. Not your lying, cheating, abusive ways.

    • How dare you, HM, not be capable of forgiveness?!? Hum, hu…why not?!?

      I got this line from xH on DDAY #2 as well, followed by “Well, she (OW) forgave me for lying to her when I told her I was single! And we’re still friends.”

      More like f*buddies. Kicked him out that instant. Do they not hear what spews out of their mouths and how ludicrous it sounds?

      I will never understand…

      • Thats because his OW has fuck-for-morals and doesn’t give a crap, because shes doing the exact same thing! But hes too stupid to realise this. 🙂

  • It is tough to accept that you are Plan B. Not sure if the kids and I were plan B during false reconciliation. Ex is so passive, I think he simply did not have the balls to end things cleanly.
    Ok by me now. He got his assertive OWife, and I am free of his passivity/indecisiveness.

  • I always associate ‘ Plan B’ as the morning after pill…for myself I was Plan A… Until someone discovered… Hey there is Plan B… And i can use Plan B whenever I want cause its gonna get me outa this long term commitment… Phew. Yup i can stock pile Plan B and use it whenever I need to get some on the side and has no reprocussions… Cause TA DA …. I popped Plan B.
    I was Plan A… The original plan…. Then some one found a way to use a Plan B … C … D…. And well fuck…. Lets go thru the alphabet.
    And yup… Good ole Plan A was the stand by…. ‘ in case Plan XYZ doesnt pan out… i got my solid Plan A back at the house holding the fort down…
    got my own fucking plans now.

    • Excellent, TheClip!! Yes–“got my solid Plan A back at the house holding the fort down…” Exactly their thinking.

    • Yes, Clip exactly what I was going to say! When I hear “Plan B”, I think Misoprostole, and preventing those cells from implanting. (Trigger warning! Not trying to stir up an abortion discussion, so keep going if that bugs you, apologies in advance.)

      I say Go Plan B, let that scrofulous clump sluice on out, and head for a better life! (not that all clumps are scrofulous, just cheater ones, of course!)

      In this context, Plan B’s not such a bad metaphor.

  • My ex was a plan “b” junkie. I realized that these folks are rarely happy, it’s sad. Like a mad dog chasing it’s tail and not going anywhere, They’re kibble addicts, looking for the next high. It’s an empty and shallow lifestyle. As these kibble junkies get older they become more pathetic and wreck havoc to those in their life.

    I cannot understand how someone lives to get a compliment from a random strangers. It’s as though they are empty shells and are constantly hungry for what seems like junk food.

    In a way, cheaters are to themselves a kind of “b” persona. Unless they are cheating they feel like a “b”.
    Cheaters are “b” personality types who are wanna be legends in their own minds.

    • I feel the same way PF! And the older they get, the dumber they get out of desperation for that “approval” and more kibbles! I would feel bad, but the callousness of their actions have numbed me! I feel zip for them, exactly what he gave me!!

    • “I cannot understand how someone lives to get a compliment from a random strangers. It’s as though they are empty shells and are constantly hungry for what seems like junk food.”

      I told ex that he would rather be “liked” by lots of strangers on Facebook than have steady real love from his wife. Disordered don’t care about real love — for narcs, it’s all about quantity, not quality.

    • “They’re kibble addicts, looking for the next high” – – so true PF! I have a hard time identifying my cheater’s plan “A” and “B” cuz I’m pretty sure he was involved with the whole damn alphabet!

      • LOL! Your comment made me laugh. I’m sure I was somewhere in the alphabet. 🙂

  • My STBXH never offered to me that I be Plan B. He and OW were “just friends” anyway. My imagination was making it worse than it was. Seriously??? He also yelled to me (in custody mediation no lessjust last week) that, “I left YOU, not Jxxx (our son)!!!!” That is the lie he tells himself so he feels less guilt about what he did. I think he also hopes we can be friends. I have never had a “friend’ treat me this way. Nor an enemy.

    • My ex said “I don’t love you, but I love our kids more than anything in the world.” Where did he think those kids came from?

      • My ex keeps saying he loves the kids. But his behaviour sure didn’t show that. (And isn’t there an old saying that the most important thing a man can do for his kids is treat their mother well?).

        The kids decided that his love is actually half-love. He loves what he gets from them. But never even thinks about what he could give, not on his radar.

        • The day cheater left he told son that he didn’t love me anymore. Son said, “if you don’t love my mom, you don’t love me.” I cried when son told me that. Cheater was just trying to justify his reasons for the affair and son saw right through it. He has given me some of the best advice. He encouraged me to go no contact and did so himself before I really knew how important for my sanity it was.

        • Spot on! Our children are now without their (college) savings, their home, their community, and their family. All because dear old Dad cared more for his dick than his family. No wonder we can’t figure it out! Who the fuck does this!?!?

      • “I left YOU, not Jxxx (our son)!!!!” same here conniered, heard that over and over, but he did leave her (daughter) too in the way he tossed the family unit away. Thought he could just bring her along on his big escapade– since narcs think of their children as extensions of themselves.

      • People who love their kids don’t blow up those kids’ world for a bit of strange p*ssy or d*ck.

        • ^^^^THIS!!!^^^^ Exactly, Tempest!!

          WE know what love is, what it looks like and acts like…..

          Cheaters never will! Beyond their ability to comprehend.

        • “People who love their kids don’t blow up those kids’ world for a bit of strange p*ssy or d*ck.”

          This is the truth, Tempest!

    • Yes, I got that too! I didn’t leave the kids, I left YOU. Yet, somehow there were months and months with no child support…

      • DramaFreeMe, same here. Hasn’t offered a dime since August. Left me (not his son haha) with all our bills. I am just now getting around to filing for child support.

  • OMG conniered! I had told myself many times, when the ex wanted ‘to stay friends’, that my friends don’t lie, betray and hurt me, or my kids. I had never realized that even my ENEMIES have never treated me that badly! Love that insight!

    • If that’s the way they treat friends, I’d hate to see how they treat their enemies.

      • They don’t have friends; they have sources of kibbles and cake. They don’t have enemies; they have people who see behind their mask.That’s what an enemy is to them.

        • LAJ……..Exactly! On my final ‘hate’ letter to XPOS I said: 99.9% of anyone in your life is who you ‘pay’ or ‘pay for’; in other words, you have no true friends. Think about that! (haven’t sent yet; I know most don’t think I should but I’m saying what I should have said over 2 years ago but didn’t because I was doing the be kind, pick me dance).
          Anyway, I know it won’t have any kind of impact on him because he is void of compassion but it will make me feel good to ‘say’ it.

    • mine wanted us to be friends too. I see it as more kibbles for him, the availability to suck more out of me, and the image that I’m friends with him so what he did must not have been so bad. I don’t have friends that treat me the way he has and I never will. I’m in the process of cutting the financial ties with him now per our legal agreement and then the only thing we will have together is our daughter. Since she will graduate from HS this spring, I’m hoping there will be very little interaction with him going forward.

  • I got blamed for not being available to be plan D…Just after AP’s A,B, and C

    Her: “Cletus you never gave me a chance to change”
    Me: “um…you left me for your third affair partner while we were supposed to be in reconciliation?…Was I supposed to wait around until you got dating out of your system?”
    Her: “Click…Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz”

    See it was not only my fault she cheated, but I am also a horrible person for not waiting around for her to get it out of your system, as plan D

    • Cletus, they’re like Gorgons – hold a mirror up for them to get a glimpse of their true selves and they tend to disappear!

  • Mikky, at the top of the thread, makes references to “the hook.” I can’t even write that without thinking about Blues Traveler and Emma Stone’s awesome lip-synch of that song. But the lyrics go: “The hook brings you back…”. And that’s what this brand of cheaterspeak is all about. Set the hook. Keep you on the hook because– kibbles and cake. I can see now that I was Plan B for Jackass for a long time. As friends, we’d go for years with no contact because our lives were so different and one or the other of us was married and therefore busy and unavailable. So I thought. But now I can see how, when his life was in a down phase, he would come around and test to see if I was still on the hook. I was always a great kibble dispenser as I thought he was smart and talented and told him so. Over and over. And the relationship, if I can call it that now with a straight face, was doomed from the start because life for normal people is about more than dispensing kibbles. Before I caught him on DDay, he was in discard mode but throwing up all sorts of “responsibilities” to create the illusion that any separation was temporary. In the weeks before DDay, he told me in any number of ways that his goal was to “get his old life back” but he had no idea how long that would take.

    Now, he had suffered a loss in the death of his father, but how many people have to blow up their whole life in the wake of losing a parent? I told him at the time that I would be glad to help out with his invalid mother, etc.,but he of course brushed that away. It wasn’t for him the responsibility–he was in a very rich and deep ocean of kibbles, cake and narcissistic competition. He was the “go-to” guy for his mother and “patriarch of the X family,” and no doubt lording it over his brothers. Up the street, MOW adored him and they were in the throes of a romance on FB, while living a 5 minute walk from each other. He didn’t have to pay rent and could live alone in the family home for utilities. He got to walk around and play the bereaved son and the great guy who dropped everything to take care of the family home. He didn’t have time to talk to me (so he said) but could drive around to personally thank the vendors who provided flowers and food for the funeral. He didn’t need kibbles or cake from me. He was neck deep in that stuff. But even when I asked him directly pre-dray, if we were done, as I could clearly see was the case, he blame shifted and told me I was “in a hurry.” I said, “No, I’m 62 and I am not waiting around for someone who doesn’t have the time or interest to text me, let alone have an actual relationship.” And of course, 4 days later, I find out about the neighbor MOW he’s known since she was in grade school. So even when they seem done with us, it’s hard for them to let go of someone who has provided so many kibbles, so much cake. And for those, like Jackass, who thrive on triangles and unfair competition, keeping us on the hook makes it easy to rev up an old kibble source and hypotenuse. Just another reason why No Contact is so powerful for chumps. Once we get off the hook for good, we can see the pattern for what it is.

    • “keeping us on the hook makes it easy to rev up an old kibble source and hypotenuse. Just another reason why No Contact is so powerful for chumps.”

      So true, well put! Looking back, I was put on the hook from the very beginning to compete with the OW which he ended up connecting with sixteen years later! Early in our seeing each other he criticized my reaction to something, saying she would have behaved differently and would have just laughed it off. He would tell me when he still dreamed about high school and her. I thought it weird but knew how weird it was to be caught up with a person so called unattainable from my own past experience (would maybe call it pick me dancing now?, had done work with my own FOO issues already but after this marriage and divorce realized I still had a lot to learn at the point when I married him) and just figured it was something he would have to work out and it didn’t really have much to do with me. I even kind of thought it was good that he was being open and honest about his recurring interest in this so called first love. Don’t people always say things like “you never forget your first love”? Anyway I spent way too much time rationalizing away what should have been red flags and hypotenuses.

    • LAJ….you said, but how many people have to blow up their whole life in the wake of losing a parent? Well mine lost his 23 y/o son. Incredibly devastating and I can’t and wouldn’t even want to imagine BUT he blameshifted his lack of affection and alienation of me (pre DDay) on the loss of his son…….MANY times! I got yelled at like this, ‘you have a dead son and then tell me how you feel’! (Mind you, I do have a son that is his age and everytime it devastated me that he could be so cruel to say that).
      NO…..XPOS, you are a lying, cheater who has NO character! It sickens me to think that he blames the poor boy (may he rest in peace) rather than admit truth. I realize that a great loss like this can do a lot of things, but I truly believe it doesn’t change your character. If you’re evil, you’re evil.

      • Yes, their character is what it is.
        Pointing at a death in the family to explain why you started chasing tail? Seriously? That right there shows how twisted your thought processes are! And how your sense of loyalty is all screwed up!
        My X lost four family members, in the space of six years, and then he was the only one of his birth family left. He kept saying he started obsessively spending time with the neighbor woman, because of that. He blames their affair on ‘fucked up times’. I always told him that a normal husband would have clung on tight to his wife! He knew I adored him, and he admitted that he knew that, too.
        So, blaming cheating on deaths in the family? Just a ghoulish smoke-screen for being a self-centered Asshole!
        I NEVER bought that excuse, after all, I knew and loved his Mom, Dad and brother too.

  • Is “maybe in a couple of years we can be friends” in the same category? You know, maybe he can be open to a “friendship” with me after I stop being “such a bitter annoying bitch” to him for walking out on pregnant me and kids to marry the other woman…all I could respond to him was “Do you really think I want you as my friend?” Shock silence from him…but we are still both doing the “co parent” dance…

    • Co parenting definitely deserves the quotation marks. I wish I could go completely NC but we have a son that’s 7 so that’s not happening anytime soon. Sigh.

      At my initial child support appointment the other day, the woman wanted to know how many overnight visits my son had had with his father since we separated. Luckily I keep meticulous records and was able to tell her exact dates and lengths of time. You know what? Twice a month for one-night sleep overs since October. There were NO overnight stays for the first month and a half because he lived in a dang hotel!! I’m sorry but that is NOT co-parenting. That’s Uncle Dad taking you to the movies every other weekend because it doesn’t interfere with his “fresh start”. I have our son 90% of the time. I am the parent…having to check with a silent partner about raising children.

  • I experienced what I guess would be a corollary to Plan B.

    Months into MC that was going nowhere because my wife was still secretly banging her AP…
    …after a session that I pleaded for her to “come back to reality” (I was more chumpy then)…
    my ex-wife said, “That’s the first time I’ve heard you say that you want to work this out.”

    Her implication was obvious: she was saying that I’ve never wanted it to “work out.” Therefore she was justified in continuing to mount her coworker.

    It’s called solipsism, my not-so-dear ex-wife. Look it up, skank.

    • JC……lol, I’m not a skank but I had to look that one up! haha
      Wow, for sure, that’s my ex too!

  • Like Groundhog Day with these cheaters. The sos over and over again with all of them. My w’s apres D-Day line was ” I realize we have a great life and that you a really good person. I love you to death. But I think I need more freedom to explore new relationships than is available in the context of a traditional marriage.”

    She had read that French guy’s (can’t remember his name and it’s not worth remembering, sorry) book “How To Think About Sex” where he discusses how monogamy is not natural and a few affairs over the course of an otherwise successful relationship are no big deal, yada, yada. Another recent book was something like “How To Land A Bad Boy” by another very forgettable writer who is apparently a self proclaimed “bad boy”.

      • Thanks, Tempest! Made me sit and think quietly for several minutes. Working my way through the process.

  • Big Chief Dumb Fuck was stupid enough to try Plan B and Plan C simultaneously.

    You see, he’d been fucking the neighbor around the corner (OW#1) for 16+ years when he took up with the Twatwaffle (OW#2) and was boinking both of them.

    When DDay came, and i found out about both whores, I kicked him out.

    He then:

    1. Could not believe that I would honestly change the locks on the doors after he left, because he thought he was coming back after his one-year lease was up (kind of like time out in the penalty box);

    2. Was not-to-subtly strutting and acting macho when OW#1 got into an email slanging match with OW#2. Kibbles squared to have two mistresses arguing over him, you know; and

    3. Was baffled as to why OW#1 was incensed that he’d asked if he could stay with her, instead of having to pay for his own apartment, while he would continue humping OW#2.

    Idiots, all three of them.

    • lol MN, mine was all remorseful at first when I kicked him out and changed the locks but then his tune changed when he realized that I wasn’t falling for his lies anymore.

      I had snooped for about 4 months to get the evidence I needed to confirm his cheating before I kicked him out. He actually said to me that I had 4 months to think about what I was going to do and he was caught off guard by me kicking him out. Really? He’d been cheating on me for at least 8 years with a variety of ho’s and he was ‘caught off guard’ by the consequences of me finding out??

      Also, he signed a 6 month lease saying that he planned to fix things between us before that lease ran out. Later he said that I had imposed a ridiculously short time frame on him to fix things between us. Huh? He chose to sign the 6 month lease (I didn’t even go with him) and imposed that time frame on himself.

      Liars and blame shifters – that’s all they are. And cheaters, of course.

    • Can’t make this insanity up! What a comedy of sorts MN Moved On! They are idiots for sure!

    • No wonder you call him Big Chief Dumb Fuck. (And that is still hilarious…)

  • Unlike many others here, I never got the tears, the “but I love you” texts, the claims of wanting to work things out after Dday. He was just gone, and started in with hate-filled emails and confrontations. Until out of the blue, six months later, he sent me a couple of text messages saying he was “thinking about me” and we should get together to talk. I was so desperate, so stupid, I ran to meet with him and agreed to the bogus reconciliation, even though he didn’t say he loved me, he just said he didn’t want to be like the guy in that Christian movie “Fireproof.”

    As it turned out, his desire for “reconciliation” was nothing but a scheme to get me to work full time and support him, bail out our house that was in danger of foreclosure, and let him pursue his “dream” of becoming an actor with no responsibilities at all. He later actually told people that I had agreed to this scheme and that I had “reneged” on our deal. Believe me, there was never any such agreement.

    After eight months of increasingly abusive “reconciliation,” I told him I was going ahead with the divorce. His reply was, “Well, you gotta do what you gotta do.” And that was the end of that — back to the hate-filled texts now and again, and the occasional really bizarre stuff, like when he sent me a text message totally out of the blue saying that he should have “added LOL to the end of his marriage vows.”

    • Dude sounds totally manipulative and calculating in is use of bullying to soften you up and get what he wants. The law of intermittent rewards was on his side, unfortunately. It’s so hard to achieve perspective when you’ve been beaten down for so long and then have a carrot dangled out in front of you. Very tempting, even if it’s a bent and gnarly carrot forgotten so long in the bottom drawer of the fridge that you can practically tie it in a knot.

      Fuck old carrots. Life’s too short to settle.

      • Nomar, you would think with their innate understanding of intermittent rewards, they’d be better with pets, wouldn’t you? I don’t know about everyone else, but my Cheater treated animals like he treats everyone else – lovebombs or devaluation, depending on the day.

  • Dear Chump Nation,
    I didn’t even think about this until today, but yes… X from Hell did give me one last chance “to change”… 🙂 . .. He would permit my presence if I changed my hair color and texture – to straight ( He even bought hair dye at Walmart)… along with some other equally wacko alterations.
    I declined. (from my wounded… No shit? Foresight of this ain’t gonna work)
    Never did he offer to give up the OW. Never did he own his character disorder.
    And, without me spackling… Which btw, he actually needed a foundation redo… He is starting the decay process.
    This little plan B is now shining her light on a Jesuit University.

    • Mine said he might take me back in a year if it didn’t work out. But there was a disclaimer-I don’t want to be married to you again. Still he never filed and gets my health benefits which means he can’t marry his downgrade. No ring in her future. He’s already cheating with other women. So I wonder what his pickup line is now that he’s living with a pig who won’t let him out of her sight.

    • “He would permit my presence if I changed my hair color and texture – to straight ( He even bought hair dye at Walmart)… along with some other equally wacko alterations.’

      WTF? I should stop being surprised. I guess it was some sort of test to see how chumpy you really were.

    • Friend, mine did that too. We were together 11 years, my color was always the same, I was a brown/blonde highlighted color. Now he wanted jet black hair and red lipstick. Um…… no thanks. Bought boxes of dye too. This after finding out OW#38? had black hair. Evil a-hole.

  • I think one of my proudest days was telling XH that I wanted to be someone’s first choice, not their last resort. This was during the “reconciliation” phase.

    It took me a month after that to finally realize that I meant it when I could tell he was just back for a roof over his head and kick him out for good.

  • My STBXH told our son “Mom can win me back by losing weight.” I said no to the PIck Me Dance and consulted a lawyer. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, asshat!

    • The whole friend concept is beyond comprehension. My friends don’t lie, steal money, and cheat. Serial cheating narcissists can’t love or have friends. When I think about it now I realize he never had one single friend, interest, or ability to improve himself in any way. He was stunted his whole life. I encouraged him but he never accomplished anything in his life. I will never forget the smirk on his face when he finally admitted after 36 years that it was always about the thrill and he wanted to be free to see as many women as he could con. He bragged about getting them to buy him gifts and pay for his food and meals.
      False love is so blind.

      • My hairdresser said that one of her clients admitted that he was cheating on his wife, saying that she was his best friend, that it was only sex, yadda yadda yadda. Hairdresser let him have it on the nose. “Friends don’t lie to each other. They don’t cheat. They don’t steal.”

        The client was agast.

        Of course she lost him as a client, but she has more.

      • Oh, Jackass’s big lament was over losing our 30+ year friendship. That wasn’t a worry when he took up with the adoring MOW. But in his mind the friendship isn’t over because he lied, cheated, gaslighted, smirked and took my money. It’s over because I accused him of cheating…the nerve of me…

  • Ugh, I am ashamed to think about this because it reminds me how weak I was.

    I basically agreed to be plan b and let her stay working in the same job, same company, same cheating-partner boss, because she HAD to keep her job ‘in case I changed my mind.’

    It all exploded spectacularly (and I lit the fuse) many months later, after my slow and painful disintegration (for some reason I was very stressed all the time…) – but my level of spinelessness and pick me! pick me! was so pathetic I still cringe.

    Man, amnesia is underrated!

    • “Man, amnesia is underrated!”

      When it comes to the period between D-day and Meh, absolutely.

      As the saying goes, “The secret to life is a large breakfast and a short memory.”

    • At least when we realize their character disorder we can feel remorse for our willingness to forgive. Their inability to appreciate, love, and understand will inevitably be their downfall. We can learn and grow. They are like dogs chasing their tails.

    • One dose of amnesia for me please.
      I would apply it to the day I learned that my best friend could see herself with my then husband… And I was too pitiful to say, “Fuck you. Get the hell out of my house. ”
      Is there a nice way to say that?
      Later I learned (no surprise) how she hooked up with many married men. 🙁
      Just sick.

      • Wow Friend, that’s crazy nuts. I’m sorry, double betrayal must be extremely heart breaking.

        Please give me a shot of amnesia too. I want amnesia to the very day I first kissed her, cause that was the beginning of what became the worse betrayal. I figure that if I never kissed her, I would have never fallen for her, never! :/

  • I called my freeloading cheater to meet me in a parking lot so he could retrieve his paltry bag of possessions. He showed up with his poor sausage face on. I basically tossed the bag over to him and said, enjoy your lousy life with your fat, greasy, broke skank AP.

    His reply? That I “should have let him have more freedom, like being able to smoke in the house and have his own apartment (presumably purchased by me since he had no money), so he could come and go as he wished. If it hadn’t been broad daylight, I might have believed he was stoned to be able to actually say that with a straight face.

    That was the moment I saw the true face of a disordered person. I just laughed a good belly laugh and said “hey you have complete freedom now! Enjoy your life in a one room apartment over a betting shop! “. I think I detected a look of nausea come over him. He saw his future coming…and what he’d just given up. Awesome.

  • I must shamely admit that I gave her kibbles to last a lifetime. When I first found out, in my in denial and desperate attempt to keep her, I offered to share her with the AP. She said, really? Let ask him. she texted him and he said that he is not the type to share cause he is jelly person. So then she turned to me and said: oh, he said he is not type to share.

    Notice that when I proposed sharing her, she didn’t say: this is what I think, she said: let me ask HIM. So a person who doesn’t even have an opinion about their own lives is not worth my time and unconditional love, sorry.

    But didn’t I mentioned I gave her kibbles to last a lifetime? When she moved out I wrote her a letter telling her how NOBODY would love like she did, and how she could ALWAYS call my heart her home, how she taught me how to LOVE and the list goes on…

    Gosh, was I buried in a deep shit cake or what?!

    • Don’t beat yourself up. I never knew the kids and I were plan B until I discovered his body of impressive work. Jeez.

      • ANC, you’re right. I shouldn’t beat myself up. And I’m sorry to hear about your situation. I’m sure it’s harder when also your kids become plan B.

    • Let that letter you wrote be testament to how loving and caring of others, that you are. Its a very, very good trait to have – never feel otherwise. In this case it was wasted on an ingrate who was wearing a mask (who is so pathetic she has to gain adoration through kibbles from strange men) – and because you are not a mind reader or don’t have the ability of hindsight, you would have never known this.
      Its not your fault, mate. Don’t let ANYONE ever make you think that it is.

      • Thank you Lania. You just made me cry with your lovely comment to my post. I needed to hear those kind words just about now. I’m grateful I found chumps like me how are emphatic, loving, understanding and caring. Thank you. I was just having a relapse moment here, thinking of how fool I was. But you’re right, I am no mind reader.

        • You’re welcome.
          No matter what you would have done, she would have stacked the deck against you – theres no winning with these sorts of twits, and even if you do win, its pointless and futile.

    • Bea, don’t be too hard on yourself. Celebrate that you can now clearly see that your response then was unhealthy. Heading to meh, Bea, heading to meh.

      • Uniquelyme,

        Thank you. I’m promise to be more mindful when I’m being harsh on myself. I will keep heading to meh! 🙂

    • Bea……yea, no beatin’ yourself up. I did the same bullshit too! First off, we’re in shock and denial and that’s what a lot of us do to keep our life in tact! We’re the norm; not the cheaters!

  • My own personal situation – I’ve always had a moral rule that I will NEVER be the silver medal to someones affections – if I find out there is someone else, its over and there is NO going back, no matter how contrite and remorseful they seem – with no exceptions. I also have no inkling to want to be friends with ex-boyfriends, either. The way I see it: Why would you want to be friends with someone who has ‘lost the love’ they had for you? No thanks. I have better things to do with my time than to be friendly to someone who discarded me – because if they lost that love for you, what else is holding that friendship together, really?

    The people who have cheated on me in the past have witnessed this first hand, and I have made it VERY clear to all of my past (and present) partners that there is no going back once cheating is known. Its probably why there has been very little drama in that regard – once I’ve found out (and I’ve always found out fairly quickly, tbh) – I’ve kicked them to the kerb, free for them to pursue their skanks. I have of course dealt with drama in the form of narc-abuse of said cheaters trying to dictate the narrative – but I’ve retorted with ‘I don’t think someone who cheats is worthy, yeah?’

    That being said though – with the one situation where it was abuse, rather than infidelity – I did actually give him a second chance, tried to figure out if there was a legitimate reason as to why he was acting the way he was. Sort of did a ‘pick me’ dance in the form of trying to improve myself – but when I realised that it was futile and he was acting the same way irrespective of changes – I then went NC. But hey – those changes to improve myself still exist even to this day – so it was a beneficial thing in the end.

    • Lania, I admire your strong adherent to your moral values. It is clear that you know what you believe in and you stick to it no matter what.

      You posed some great questions about being friends with our exes. If we were to consider that, there would be nothing holding that friendship.

      • Thank you – its mainly because I’ve always had a mentality of ‘don’t take crap from anyone’ internally, even when I was younger.
        Being bullied as a child for quite a number of years tends to forge a personality of steel, after all. Either that, or it breaks people entirely – just glad I didn’t fall down this path.

        If you look at the whole dynamic of breaking up (or divorcing, just using the term ‘break up’ here to mean all relationship splits in general, btw) with someone – its kind of backwards to want to remain friends with that person. I can sort of understand if it were a truly mutual decision – but generally, as a rule of thumb, it would be skewed against one party in some way – otherwise why would you break up in the first instance? And in this case, its obvious that its a power dynamic skewed against us, so as a matter of self respect its foolhardy at best to want to be friendly to the cheater. It really just allows another avenue for someone whos keen on kibbles to further screw us over.

        • Wow Lania, I’m sorry to hear you were bullied when you were little. That’s extremely cruel and damaging to kids. I can see how you adopted this philosophy of “don’t take crap from anyone.” I truly wish you find true love and never again experience cheating or any other type of abuse in your life.

          As per the friends part, I agree with you. I promised my ex I would remain friends with her, but now, I’m not sure that’s what I want anymore. Mainly, I see friendship as one of the most pure and long-lasting type of relationships. So I’m not sure I can start a friendship with someone who disrespected and betrayed me in the worse possible way.

          • Hey, no feeling sorry for me. I’m of the opinion that its made me who I am today, and while it was terrible at the time – I’m here now, and those demons from then mean nada now – I guess you could say I’m at ‘meh’. Navigated that shit storm years ago, purely with my own cajones, haha!
            As for the true love part – got that covered too. I have someone who accepts me for who I am, flaws and all, and is caring and kind. Its really quite a beautiful thing, in fact – when you have someone who has your back even when the shit hits the fan.
            In regards to you and your ex – if you truly don’t want that, anymore – you need to think of yourself as a means of self-protection. You can see what sort of evil shit she pulls, to the person she’s supposed to be with, to the exclusion of all others – and that, frankly, is not friendship material. A true friendship is mutual and sharing – her mentality is ‘take take take’.

            • Lania,

              Im Happy you’re not re-victimizing yourself and you have truly reached “meh.” 🙂

              And wow, you found that person huh? The type of person we all chumps are searching for. My heart jumps in joy for you, truly. You’re a great example of how to survive crap and then Thrive.

              Thank you for all your advice. I truly appreciate it. I’m going to keep investing in what truly matters in life. As for my ex, she is just somebody I used to know. The day will come in which it won’t affect me anymore, thinking about her, I mean.

  • I guess I had a weird cheater ex. The guy always begged for forgiveness after his affairs came out. He never had Plan A or B. Just simultaneous plans.

    • Mine was the opposite. He came right out and said he’d been doing the cheater-cha-cha to try and hurt me so badly I would leave. So I obliged him, with a good deal of the money, and so forth. I earned it! It was cruel, he was such a coward. I’m so much better than I was, but I don’t think I’ll ever really get over the idea that someone could be as cruel as he was, not just to me, but our kid. He actually said in a recent email (just discussing student loans), that he “felt bad” that he opted out of been a father around the time my lovely daughter hit HS. Geeze what a loser! She’s there best thing there will ever be, in either of our lives, and he just turned his back, because–selfish. Nincompoop.

  • I got the unspoken offer of being Plan B. He told out daughter that had I not moved out he would have “taken me back”. WTF. He has a gf and I’m supposed to wait around for the day that she goes back to her husband. Sure mf’er and pigs are starting to fly. That’s not to say that he didn’t get around to telling me how much our split was affecting him. Poor sausage…..

  • The best I got was “Can’t we just go back to the way things were?” ~ what he said to me after I found out about the first of many OW, and was devastated and distraught. He wanted it to go back to what he had. He was fking around, while I stayed at home raising the kids, clueless of it all. Yeah that’ll happen……

    • Fast forward to 6 months of fake R, I kicked him out, he promptly moved in with another OW. Then said to me, “In the end, I hope it works out between us” WTF? I asked him how his GF felt about that? Crickets.

    • That was my ex’s approach as well. The Time Machine wish. He kept trying to revert back to HIS plan A, which was my ignorance. I spent half a year trying to figure out what the **** was going on with him, and all he was doing was trying to figure out how to magically rewind time back to before I found out about his affair. I can’t even call that false reconciliation.

  • My cheater took his MOW on vacation then told me during MC I would need to change to stay married to him. Later he asked me to apply for a mortgage with him on a house I’d never seen….located near the OW’s house. Even if I hadn’t already filed for divorce, my answer would have been NO!!! Now he has moved into this new house to be with the OW. Good riddance! I see a long a happy future there…especially since each has checked out their options on over the holidays. I’ve been back up plan b long enough. Time for him to find a new one!

  • My STBXH even admitted I was his plan B if it didn’t work out with his aged tart. He said he didn’t know if he was doing the right thing and that if it did t work out he would ask me to take him back. I pointed out that we would be divorced and he said he would want for us to then remarry. Mad as a hatter!

    It’s working out in my favour though as he is allowing me to keep the house in the settlement and half his pension plus spousal support. He isn’t taking any money out of the house and is accepting a deferred payment of 15% if I ever decide to move. He thinks this way he will not have to put any money into new home he and his tart will buy and our home is sitting there still if he wants to return. I let him think that and will continue to let him think that until the ink is dried on the financial settlement and then I will tell him to take a hike. Or maybe I will just sit and wait until he asks if he can come back and then tell him to take a hike. Yea maybe that will be more fun.

    • Day after day, I read these incredible stories of true lunacy, and realize how truly screwed up these people are. One can almost have some compassion for them when (and if) the Karma bus rolls in to the station and some consequences settle in. Almost. Well… maybe as much compassion as they had for us.

      • I sometimes feel pity for my STBXH because he is so screwed up and if I am honest I know I cannot hate him and will have love in my heart for him until the day I die. He is giving up that for a skanky old tart who doesn’t know what love is. That’s why I pity him.

      • Pity for him during my marriage caused me to spakle. No, NO PITY. They make every decision themselves. It took me awhile to see this. I am moving towards viewing him as sick but then feel people may feel he deserves pity, like its not his fault there could be something wrong with his brain. No, no pity, and I can and do hate him for being the person he is choosing to be and is continuing to choose to be.

        • Actually I do feel pity for mine. He has lot absolutely everything: his wife, his children, his home, his career, his dogs, his future, his reputation. The only thing is that he is so blinded by his narcissism that he is unable to place value on all the things he once had. Now he is just another unemployed loser.

        • Scorpio……yeeeehaaaa!!! See my name? I Have Hate too. Don’t like it but can’t shake it right now. Ok……don’t want to shake it right now!

  • I was most certainly intended to be moved from Plan A to Plan B. My assholean x used the house I searched for over a year to find and renovated for 12 years to attract my replacement pod. His idea was for me to hand my home over to the lovebirds and he would set me up in a shitbox condo almost in the shadow of the home I built, and we’d be FRIENDS. Fuck no after 16 years. Four years later, when the divorce was final, he’d married his skank student, and she didn’t fetch and carry properly, he divorced her and sent me a heartfelt letter. It went on for an eternity, but the bottom line was that I was always the only one for him, but I was crazy to think he was a bad guy. He wanted to give me another chance. Really? Not worth a response.

    • Survivor,
      On the subject of parading wife’s assets to attract OW, my Ex mooched off me by putting up no money whatever toward the house, because I could afford to buy it myself. He didn’t bother to check that I’d left his name off the deed, and I purposely never married him. I instead must have seen it as a limited time arrangement, since the £400 amonth he paid into the joint grocery account, I considered rent. I sold him the line that he needed to sign a tenancy agreement in case the tax dept questioned the monthly payment.

      Nnnedless to say, the dumbass thought the house was half his anyway, and brought OW there to have sex, wear my clothes, eat my food, and steal numerous itemseach time I was away on business. One day when he said “I was good and washed the bedsheets while you were gone!” i knew that was out of character so I tightened up the finances and stopped buying him things, scouted around, and started finding evidence of the OW…hairs the wrong colour in the drain…etc.

      I was really good at proscrastinating and spackling, but when his colleague outed their affair, I was more than ready to simply lock him out and kick his sorry arse to the curb. The funniest part of all were the angry emails from OW, saying how it was only a matter of time before the “courts” would give him the house! She must have bought his BS hook line and sinker.

      • On the subject of using the wifes assets to attract an OW, I have an even better one. I noticed some hotel bills after xH left at a hotel 5 blocks from my fathers house. Why so close I thought? Then I realized he wanted to show my fathers house and neighborhood to the OW. I was very chumpy and had even bought xH a car (twice), and when he left he arm twisted me to buy a third car by threatening never to come his the children again. (I did it. Yes, I know, stupid me.). After our divorce his OW protested why didn’t he get more? LOL. More of what? I had purchased everything xH owned because he spent all his income wining and dining OWs during our marriage.

      • Yup. I escaped and he “Wanted to give me another chance.” No chance of that. You will hear crickets. Endlessly.

  • I will never get over how delusional some of these cheaters are. True narcs a lot of them. Still it must have felt good to get his grovelling letter once his skank proved not to be Mrs Wonderful after all. Glad you kept your house, I’m keeping my house too and that’s what matters to me. I can do whatever I like now he has gone off to live with his old granny whore. I never thought I would like living on my own but I am really enjoying it.

    • Didn’t keep my house. I tried, but it was too expensive. After the fuckwad deposed my employers and asked such nice things as “How many of the partners did my STBXW sleep with?” I was reeling, because the answer was none. But my employers thought it best if I lost my job. I ran away and the STBX searched for me and found me and brought his trollop to help him assault me. The OW is now another XW . Nice girl!

      • And I should mention, the assholian ex died a slow, painful and miserable death a few years back. Good for him. His family made a fortune on my original house. Good for them, they are nice people.

        • Wow you have really had a lot of shit to put up with. I am sorry you were assaulted by the two psychos. I’m also glad that the Karma Bus came along for him.

          • Betrayedchump, that was a long time ago. I moved to another city, far enough away that it would be hard to explain tripping and falling onto my property with a crowbar. I bought another house. Stayed NC with the psycho and anyone associated with him for many peaceful years. I read the XH’s obit a month before marrying the sweetest former chump ever, and I have to admit it felt like good news.

          • I must admit the karma bus has come along on my cheater as well. 1- Destroyed his career? check 2-Unemployed? check 3- Destroyed his reputation? 4- Affair down OW? check
            Karma is amazing.

            • freeatlast, I think those free range roaming asshats get their due eventually. Some sooner than others.

  • As has been discussed many times, most of these people probably do have some sort of objective mental disorder. W is bi-polar and everything she has done has been what often happens with bi-polar people. These cluster diseases are real.

    But as the guy who I see for therapy pointed out, it is not an excuse. They have choices. They choose to do the contorted, freakish things they do, and they leave wreckage in their wake.

    • Absolutely, Chumpguy. My ex was diagnosed with narcissist personality disorder, and I personally believe he has other issues as well. Hell, this is a guy who actually flunked a psych test given by a potential employer and was refused a job.

      I sometimes momentarily feel kind of sorry for my ex, because I think he is a pathetic nut. But as your therapist said, that really isn’t an excuse for the intentionally awful things my ex has done and continues to do. He treated me horribly, did hurtful things to our son and I know he has hurt many other people as well, all without even a shred of remorse or guilt. Because of that, my pity for him ends quickly. I consider him to be wicked, a sort of demon here on earth.

      • Glad………yes, in my soon to send final letter, I refer to the XPOS as having a close bond with Lucifer among other ‘nice’ names that are simply the truth.

      • For me, it’s not a matter of her deliberately trying to hurt me or my son or anyone else. More a matter of “I want what I want when I want it, and what I want, I gotta have.” And no potential consequences to her; or God forbid, how what she does might impact anyone else, are relevant. Someone getting trampled in the wake of her BS isn’t even on her radar screen

      • Same here Glad, I am at a point where I feel a sort of benevolent pity at times, then remember that he is pitiful because he is shallow, deceitful and without empathy…..we can only oray they stay out of our lives and the lives of our children.

      • I feel KIND of sorry for my X, because he has had addiction problems since the age of 16. However, when it suited his purposes, he could behave, and was quite the genius!
        About being a Demon on this earth- he told me once, when his lifetime of cheating and lying and deviant sex with others started coming out- I’m probably going to Hell when I die.

  • Living in a “no fault” State here. House has no mortgage, we have zero bills (did credit check to make sure) and all children are grown and long gone. HOW do I get rid of a man who REFUSES to move out (he knows his rights) and flaunts his “love life” in my face? Even if he moves in with a wealthy OW, he knows that if things went belly up with her, he can waltz right back into our home if that pleases him.

    He is not violent, so there will never be an occassion for me to use “fear” to get a Court Order for him to stay away. What has happened to our laws?? WHY does emotional torment not get any consideration for who has to go/stay while selling a house? He says not to count on the sale of our house, since he can turn down any offer or trash it and/or not let Realtors show it.

    I can see why cheaters get murdered.

    • Sell the house anyway. If he actively refuses it, you need to talk to a lawyer and know your rights. Then drag his arse through broken glass.
      Hes doing this shit precisely because he knows he can get away with it. Arrogant piece of shit.

      And the reason why emotional abuse isn’t given any thought in court stuff is because there are way, way WAY too many cheater apologists out there, and way too many people who fucking pussyfoot around when it comes to this sort of thing. Same reason why people blame rape victims for ‘bringing it on themselves’ and crap like that. If the tide turned and more people in authority were chumps, you’d see the laws change – but the fact is, a fair amount of these cheaters are actually in the authority positions (read: flaunting power is their dynamic as a nutcase and hence their entire being) and while that’s the case, nothing will happen.

      • Thanks Lania…I am going to start looking for a pit bull lawyer soon to find out my options. I imagine that I will have to convince him that we can get a better price for the house if it is kept nice, which is to HI$ benefit. His EA just inherited a LARGE amount of money from her dad…and has every thing that fits his physical “profile” that he craves…I am hoping he will eventually hook up with her (and buy a house together)… and perhaps over time I can save enough to buy him out…but it would amount to at least $175K. He ruined our credit so no loans are possible.

        • Once you have filed, you start the clock running on cohabitation. You can press for a separation agreement. But you need an attorney who is smart and who knows what you want. Be careful–sometimes attorneys fight on all front. Know what you want and what you are legally entitled to and find the one who will get it for you.

          Meanwhile, tell him if he’s going to live in the house, he has to spend his free time helping you get it ready to sell. Make his lazy entitled ass work. That might move him out the door. Time to channel your inner badass.

    • Rowena…..I really had to LOL and agree with your ‘I can see why cheaters get murdered’! Love this!

  • FYI, I have not tipped my hand regarding my intentions to file. I am getting my ducks in a row, stashing away cash, getting all financial documents in order and waiting one more year until the ten year marriage mark (Social Security and possibly Spousal Support) benefits (we are early 60’s). In the meantime, we get along VERY well since I keep my mouth SHUT…and smile, smile, smile.

    • I’ve changed your user name. If you’re not wanting to tip your hand, please don’t post under your name. Same goes for everyone, thanks.

  • Hmm…or I can turn down any offers, trash it or refuse to show it too…which would buy ME time if he moves in with an OW to come up with a way to buy him out…works both ways. Something to think about.

    • You get him out by filing for divorce. It makes sense to wait for the 10 year mark to maximize your SSN payments. Get thee to a lawyer to find out your options, if you haven’t done that. And, if you live in a state that requires a separation period you can probably file soon and still hit your 10 year mark for SSN. Once you file, if he doesn’t sign a settlement, you go to court and let the judge decide. My ex knew his rights and wouldn’t leave either, unfortunately he did escalate to physical violence, threatening suicide and the asshole nearly shot me. I did get a protective order after that. Anyway, watch out for emotional abuse to escalate once you break cover on the divorce.

  • No separation period required in our state. Divorce does take 6 months total from filing to dissolution (required). “Marriage” will hit 10 year mark in May of next year. He would not do anything violent because I am armed…(carry a .38 as is necessary for the work I do). He knows that he does not have to leave until the sale of the house which could take years if he feels like screwing that up. Divorce does not get him out of the house…only buying him out or the sale of the house will do that…or perhaps if he moves out with his EA. But there are no laws preventing him from moving right back in if he wanted to. Shit, there are not even any laws that prevent him from moving HER into our house while I am still there for that matter.

    I am at peace with my decision…porn discoveries over the entire marriage have left me emotionally prepared for this newest EA discovery…and it turns out he cheated numerous times on his Ex wife too. Pfffft.

    • So I’m taking back my earlier comments about kicking him out. Maximize that social security! But make life as pleasant for yourself as possible and start building your new life. New friends, new interests. Exerices, eat right, take a course in something. Tell your cheater it’s time to repaint the house! Say you’re thinking you might want to downsize in a few years since the kids are grown up. Make sure you have a security alarm so if he does move out, you can set it to a code he does’t know. It’s tough to live with someone under those conditions, but if you use the time well, your new life will be well underway once he is gone.

      • In my divorce decree, it stated that the marital home would be sold. I think it will be impossible for you to buy him out, unless he agrees to that. I did wish my lawyer had put a timeframe on the sale, because it just said-as soon as reasonably practicable, and Cheaterpants dragged that out for a year and a half!

  • Since my separation years ago, I have not dated. The first few years, I was damaged and healing, and focused on raising the two preschoolers cheater left behind with me. Then, I was just used to being alone, happy that way, and still had very little time to put in the work of finding somebody new. It’ll happen by coincidence, or it won’t. Meh either way. I was also lazy about getting the divorce underway, and ex was certainly not interested in doing it. It’s finally almost done though.

    But I do sometimes wonder, do these factors lead my ex to believe that I’m pining for him and waiting for him to finish with schmoopie? I almost hope it does, because I would just RELISH laughing in his face if schmoopie dumps him and he comes calling on me.

    • Isn’t there an old country song. goes something like ‘I want you to beg me to take you back … so I can tell you NO!’. Gotta be some satisfaction in that!

  • I got this when the ex dumped me the day before Valentine’s Day. He tried to dump me off on a “friend” of his after he spent most of that whole mess treating me like shit, disrespecting me right and left, disappearing on me, and accusing me of cheating almost nonstop after the 2nd month. He told me to call the guy, and I didn’t. Ha! I’ll find someone on my own time.

  • Having been Chumped twice and still reeling as I am being offered the plan B! Wow ………..things won’t work out, i am just doing this because my Mommy said I must and my poor 19 yo boy needs me to enable his disgusting behaviour and my poor ex wife is so sad without me and keeps threatning suicide and is a bit manipulative but I just want to give it one more chance but it won’t work, but please wait for me, I love you, you are my one and only, I will make it up to you you’ll see blah, blah, blah………….WTF!

    My favourite saying right now is ” When you are dead you don’t know you are dead. Only others know and it only affects others…………..It’s the same when you are stupid” 🙂

    • deedee… your statement on his ex threatening suicide brought up a memory for me. The XPOS told me that his 25 year younger stripper was threatening suicide via a pill overdose if he left her and he couldn’t deal with that guilt after losing his son to drugs (but son’s autopsy did not show drugs in his system and his death is still unknown). Hmmmm, cheater?

  • As I read these posts, I’m truly amazed at the cruelty displayed by all of these cheaters and the inflated sense of entitlement to do the wrong thing. I just read an article about how cheaters look at us with contempt because they are “getting away with something” and think we’re stupid, so they feel okay saying such ridiculous comments. This article gave some awesome tips to spot liars in all their glory. They deserve the eventual karma, even if we may not be around to see it. Hugs…

  • Rowena – x tried this for over 3 mos with me. It was miserable living under the same roof while he was carrying on with hyena. He thought I didn’t know and we could hardly stand to be in the same room, let alone share a dinner together. Can we say miserable way to live! I finally convinced him to move out just for 30 days. Hotel, home-trailer, whatever, and he agreed. Made sure his life was miserable under my roof in very subtle ways as I got my papers together. He agreed on the 30 days. At that time, yes – I was afraid of him because he was weird – had always been a gentle person, but I must watch too much Forensic Files on t.v. I figured I was in danger. He used guns, I didn’t. That was enough and attorney advised me to immediately change the locks and deal with it later – legal or not. He didn’t have the guts to challenge me on it. He’s been locked out ever since and I no longer have the fear. Get that asshole out from under your roof! Or lose your mind!!

    • Changing locks wont work because he can easily break into his own house without lawful consequences. Making him miserable wont work because he can “dish it out” as well as I can (we are a match there…both type “A” personalities). We do get along very well because he does not know how much I know… I mean, he thinks he is being very clever about what he is doing so that he does not even need to go “underground”…I do not ask him questions or challenge him anymore. BUT, once I file next year and have him served, it will change the present dynamics between us…at that point, I will NEED for him to be gone and anticipate he will refuse to leave…UNLESS he has a schmoopie already waiting…or repents from the heart.

      Right now we are reading the Bible together every night after dinner and discussing each chapter as we go along….(I have a 62yr old Jesus Cheater…like the parable of the Fig Tree…all leaves each year, but no fruit). We have just started a month ago, and it will take an entire year to finish…about the time I will be ready to file. I asked the Lord to help me to be able to live peacefully with him for another year…and so far it has been VERY good…a Miracle in fact considering everything…I am at peace as long as I keep looking to the Lord for His direction and strength. After this year is up, I will then ask the Lord to create an EXODUS for him from this house somehow…maybe part the Red Sea for him so he can reach his promise land…a land flowing with milk and honey.

      At this point, and after everything I have ALREADY recovered from, I wish him no ill at all…I just do not want to live out my remaining years looking over my shoulder any longer or living with HIS shame. I have read nearly every post on this site, and have friends support and now have direction on how to handle the practical/financial things. Keeping my mouth shut, my eyes on Jesus, and my plans well hidden until I am ready to act is the key.

  • The entitlement is breathtaking. The problem I have is I don’t know if OW is still in the picture and I don’t know if I am plan B or not. I know he’s not treating me very nice and that should be enough really. I know he’s conflicted, but not sure it’s OW.. he refuses to admit wrongdoing. Refuses to admit relationship was beyond friends and I have no proof. So when you don’t know for sure, what do you do? Hang on a while for your kids and see if he snaps out of it? Seems like torture.

  • Mine wanted to separate and “find the old flame” for me again, maybe.. maybe not. All the while spending the money that’s half mine.. and comparing me to MOW. Uh, no thanks.