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UBT: Affair Proof Your Marriage

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“Affair Proof Your Marriage” articles are so ubiquitous, I hesitate to feed them to the Universal Bullshit Translator. It just rolled its circuits at me. Really? This crap again? Don’t you have some juicy psychobabble from a certified Yoga Imago Sex Therapist I can parse? Are you really going to make me read “keep the home fires stoked” again?  

Sorry UBT. The menace of Affair Proofing must be stopped. Or at least ridiculed a bit.

HuffPo once ran “9 Steps to Affair Proof Your Marriage” by Beth Cone Kramer. Ostensibly the article is to point out danger zones we weren’t aware of (second cocktails!), but in actuality, is thinly disguised chump blame. We drive them to it, folks!

1. Address problems with your partner. When we don’t talk about what’s bothering us, we tend to want to find someone’s shoulder to cry on. Be careful about discussing your grievances over and over again with someone who isn’t your partner.

Chumps, if you don’t offer your shoulder to a cheater, they will find Another Shoulder. Cheaters, if you don’t unburden your unhappiness on your chump, they can’t dance prettier for you. Actually, you might try both tactics — discuss your misery freely with your chump AND tell the new shoulder she’s the only one who Really Understands You. Problem solved!

2. Be involved in your partner’s life. If a wife (or husband) has frequent dinner or late night meetings with business associates, why not suggest “Let’s all have dinner together?” adds Dr. Saltz. “Keep your partner abreast of what’s going on and let her or him know you’re interested.”

“Let’s all have dinner together because I am highly suspicious of this Bob character in accounting. In fact, if I invite myself to your company happy hour, you’ll back off Bob, won’t you?”

Meals together are such an affair deterrent! Because cheaters NEVER make chumps dine with their affair partners. That just never, EVER happens.

3. Watch out for that second or third cocktail. If you’re on a business trip with the “work spouse,” avoid that extra glass or wine or martini. Drinking can lower inhibitions. If you’re disgruntled with your partner, have had a few drinks and it’s midnight, it’s easy to share you’re miserable when there’s someone there.

The first indication you might be on a slippery slope is having a “work spouse,” but no matter — avoid the Bellinis. Keep the shields up on your “misery”! (Only desperately miserable people cheat, so lock that unhappiness in! Don’t let it escape with one extra beverage!)

4. Be honest with yourself. Dr. Saltz notes, “If you want to look nice when you get together with so-and-so, touch the other person or say things you wouldn’t be saying if your spouse were there, that may be a hint you’re crossing the line.”

… into a sexual harassment lawsuit. Drinking together and touching people you work with probably isn’t a solid career move. If we’re being honest with ourselves!

5. Keep the home fires stoked. Feeling desired may increase a woman’s libido. Engage with your partner to make sure she feels wanted and knows that you’re still attracted to her. Since the brain loves novelty, it’s easy to get sidetracked by the new guy or girl, especially if she (or he) is not getting attention at home.

Since the brain loves novelty, be seven different people! That affair proofs everything! Make multiples of yourself! Okay, if you can’t do that, desire your spouse. That’s why people cheat, because they don’t feel desired. You’re probably sexless, aren’t you?

Cheaters NEVER cheat on people who desire them and have sex with them.

6. Don’t air the dirty laundry. Whether you’re sharing marital complaints with your office mate or with an online friend of the opposite sex, you may be setting the stage for an emotional affair. When you’re sharing more with a friend of the opposite sex than you do with your mate, you’ve crossed that line. Add in some physical attraction and you may even be heading towards a physical affair.

Cheaters, I’m sure you just lack insight that sharing marital complaints is “crossing a line.” I mean, you would never deliberately tell an online friend you were a sad sausage just to get in their pants.

This affair stuff just creeps up on you! It Just Happens! One day you’re chatting innocently about your spouse’s toenail fungus and failure to listen, and the next you’re booking hotel rooms. It could happen to anyone, so be on ALERT!

7. Step away from secrets. One sign of emotional infidelity is secrecy. If you (or your spouse) is keeping a “friendship” secret, the likelihood of an emotional affair increases exponentially. Being in a relationship doesn’t mean you need to clean house of all your friends of the opposite sex. But, be upfront about the friendship.

Cheaters, I’m sure you just forgot to tell your spouse about your “friendship.” Thanks to this handy HuffPo reminder, you’ll be full of transparency now.

8. Keep work relationships nine-to-five. If you’re meeting for drinks after work or grabbing dinner, perhaps you should invite your husband or wife along. Transparency is everything and may keep the relationship in the friend zone.

Boy we’re really hung up here on inviting chumps to dinner with the Special Friend, aren’t we? It merits two mentions.

Cheaters, arrange your covert fuck tests during office hours. Many hotels charge hourly. Cars work too! Consider a lunch hour blowjob in the parking lot.

9. Beware of crossing the line. Catching yourself if you’re heading into dangerous flirting territory. Consider if you’d be okay with your spouse sharing that slightly NSFW email or joke.

Cheaters, I’m sure you care deeply about those lines and respect them just like you respect your vows and your intact family and unsullied 401K. So you will careful when you get close to crossing a line. Sirens will go off and your hair will burst into flames if you so much as step a big toe into flirting territory. Keep your jokes to yourself. Unshared memes save marriages. (Ooh, the UBT should make a meme that says that.)

There may be no sure way to affair-proof a marriage like you would child-proof the cabinets, but you can lessen the chances with regular communication and trying to meet each other’s needs, both emotionally and sexually. It’s easy to fall into the pattern of being too exhausted or distracted after work or a day spent chasing after the kids. But, staying attentive to each other is essential to maintaining intimacy.

Bad marriages make people cheat, not bad character. Don’t chase those children! Don’t get exhausted or distracted, or your marriage is DOOMED. So put little safety locks on your cabinets and their genitals just to be safe. Maybe you can fit in a nap or something once you have them properly tethered. Best of luck! — UBT

This column ran previously, but these quacks still suck.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • They sure do! My quack cheated because I nagged him( not to stick his dick in strange and spend all of our money on himself and maybe try to get home before the kids went to bed once in a while). I was angry at the world( no, just him for blowing our retirement money and f#cking other people). And he lied because I made him lie to keep me happy. Yup, they suck

    • What? The lies didn’t keep you happy? You just must be one of those people who are NEVER happy. He went through EFFORT for you, and you just didn’t appreciate it. I totally understand because I was told the EXACT SAME THING by my x. Shocker!
      Yep, they suck.

      • “I just want to be perfect for you” by exposing you to hooker’s stds, draining your mental and financial reserves and generally making you nuts.
        I swear they issue these fuckwits a handbook….

      • I was also accused of “never being happy” which I thought was odd since I felt happy at the time.

        Since I’ve been enlightened here at CN, X accusations that I was always unhappy, gave him an excuse to cheat. As a bonus, he knew by saying “I was always unhappy” I wouldn’t hold hm accountable or question X’s behavior. Sulking, looking off into the distance, deep sighs.., If I were to ask if something was bothering X, I’d be accused of trying to start a fight.
        More evidence of my unhappiness which brought on the comment that “he could never make me happy.” In cheaters mind this justifies cheating, “we weren’t getting along.”

        • Oh boy, it must be an universal language. All I’ve heard for 17 years of marriage is how bitter I am not to mention grumpy. I always found it odd because I have always Consider myself to be a very upbeat happy person and most people think of me that way. And at the same time I was angry a lot it is was because he knew exactly what buttons to push and drove me to a whole different level. I was often at home waiting for him to come home thinking to myself what is this guy gonna do today to piss me off. But according to him it was because I was so bitter.

        • I was accused of being too energetic, worked to hard, liked to read too much, etc. Christ! I’m a criminal, eh?
          They are just after what you are, what your gifts are, your enjoyments, the low blow.
          The question is, who would question that but you? There you have it, the perfect alibi!
          What should happen is that as soon as they say they are unhappy, ILYBIANILWY, or that you are unhappy(and they are grabbing for problems), sit down with them and give them exactly 1 hour to give you all of the details of the affair, anything said after that time will not be heard.
          That way the “explanation”, “ justifications”, and crap doesn’t go on for 6 months like I did. What a waste of time. He couldn’t even tell me the truth for 6 months, what a mindfuck.
          After the affair blew open, He spent every evening dissociating on the back porch while I was trying to work and we had with a high school senior in the home.
          He did it twice to that sweet kid in his 17 year life.
          Beware that they were telling the family months before that “we were not getting along” so to be covered, assholes.
          He’s already on to the next woman. Ugh, so glad it’s not me!

        • The RIC ruins people’s lives and probably hurts the few marriages who might have benefitted from setting AND enforcing real boundaries.

          In my case, I forgave and went “from this day forward” requiring vast amounts of amnesia on my part, or I’d be “rehashing the past”. God forbid I point out a PATTERN he supposedly wanted to avoid repeating.

          And The DOCTOR only lied (by omission, which he never said was actually lying, but he only did THAT because he didn’t want to hurt me AND he knew I’d over react.

          SO – First off, he’s NOBLE to lie, (you know, to protect me!) And second, it’s MY fault for reacting “badly” about his lying, OR about his doing whatever the hell he lied about.

          So there’s that^^^ for some crazy making crap.

          Oh my, it’s unbelievable that I put up with that Abuse -yes, Abuse is exactly what it was and I put up with it for way too long.

          Shaking my head…and MOVING ON…

    • I know exactly mine was so secretive and texts coming through his phone at 1:00 to 3:00 am! BIG RED FLAG! Then I started to find out everything. Lies, lies and more lies!

  • I will give this one some credit because it’s actually putting the onus on the would-be cheater, and not the chump. I mean, it’s a bit patronizing in that it implies cheaters are just helpless goofballs who totally wouldn’t have cheated if someone had just told them not to have that 3rd drink with Linda From Accounting – but still, that’s better than most advice out there.

    • Good point. I don’t believe, though, that a person who would tend toward the listed behaviors would ever read the article. You can’t “affair-proof” (weird verb) a marriage all on your own.

      “How to avoid becoming a cheater” would be a more suitable headline. It still might not work, but it would further place the responsibility where it belongs.

  • Ah..the bad marriages make people cheat theory. My ex cheated because according to him “You were not doing your job as my wife so I had to look elsewhere”…

    • Ooh me too! Poor guy, he “had no choice” – he was just seeking “validation, a sense of adventure and a sense of feeling attractive”. What’s a man gonna do when he isn’t getting that at home?

      But wait, there’s more! It was 3 years after our daughter was killed in an accident, (which handily evokes the poignant grieving father thing, never mind that I was also almost killed and had two more babies in those three years, and a coronial inquest), and the poor sad sausage was looking simply for “connection with other human beings” – cos he didn’t have any with me. Oh, yeah, beingS. Hundreds of ‘em.

      I would have been fine with Linda from accounts, but it was hookers and gay saunas for TEN YEARS before D day. I had no clue.

      Thank you Esther Perel for introducing him to the concept of “affairs that live in the shadow of death”. And that poking your cock all over the place is “… an attempt to bring back vitality in the face of loss and tragedy”.

      • What an awful, awful person, MamaMeh. You must be a truly mighty person. I hope he is out of your life and the lives of your kids. And I truly hope the Karma bus hits Perel hard someday for all her bullshit “show me the money” proclamations about cheating.

      • Mahameh,
        I’m sorry that you experienced all this hardship. I know what its like to discover after years together that one’s partner did the hookers and gay relationships on the side.

      • MamaMeh, I’m so sorry for your loss. And it takes a special kind of evil to do such horrible things to a woman who’s mourning her precious baby. D-Day #1 for me came just a few weeks after my oldest son took his own life, so I understand the enormity of the pain. You are Mighty. Big hugs.

        • Awwww.
          I feel you there.

          In August of the year my oldest darling son passed, I got a text from stbxh “Hi Dot” after he was on his way to work. My name is not Dot. I don’t know a Dot.
          Years of cheating preceded this event.
          I called him. “Who’s Dot?”
          Without any further ado flustered cheater replied “I can’t talk to you about things. ”
          Ding ding ding. Cheater talk for my fukking Dot is your fault.

          Still tangled up legally but separated. Need to move on with legal.

          • Thank you everyone for your kindness. Chumprest and Langele, sisters in suffering. I’m sorry you lost your babies too.

            Coming up to one year since D-day and I’ve fallen in a bit of a hole, truly some times Chump Nation is the only place where I feel like I am not crazy. I’m yet another person who owes so so much to Tracy – her book arrived in the mail yesterday. My new Bible.

            Here’s another gem: as he explained in a letter to to our eldest son, putting his dick in strange “allowed me to ask less of my marriage”, because, bless, he was really just committed to keeping the family together after the trauma of our daughter’s death. He did it for me and the kids!! So selfless.

    • Oh yes, all my fault for the marriage problems. His responsibility: his presence, giving commands. My responsibility: everything else.

    • I was told the same pret. What he really meant was i was busy raising kids and being a wife to him but wasnt concerned enough about bring some toy he shows off to make other people want him. I didn’t know that was part of my wifely duties.

    • Yes, I go that in MC. “People in happy marriages don’t cheat”. My ex tried to run with that one and I fell for it until I was able to clear my head and think logically again. Not every one in an unhappy marriage cheats. I didn’t. And if the marriage is an unhappy one that is more likely the fault of the cheater than the faithful spouse anyway. Just because you treat your spouse like dirt, that doesn’t give you the right to cheat because you had a lousy marriage.

      • Exactly! I was in the same marriage as X, I was desperately unhappy at times (now I know those times when he was overtly abusive he was fucking some new whore) but I didn’t cheat! And I had tons of opportunities — who doesn’t?!

      • THIS: Not everyone in an unhappy marriage cheats. I didn’t.

        I was in the same sexless, manipulated love, and child-focused marriage as him… and I managed not to cheat and still try to make dates and anniversaries and birthdays and vacations fun (because he never did). He checked out because he could and because there are so many women (and trannies and couples and groups) with no character for him to fuck.

        There is no way to affair proof a marriage with someone who was never monogamous (even while dating apparently.)

        • Yes.
          Me too.
          I made the whole sorry mess way better and good for the kids too.
          He was a miserable bitch most of the time.

      • This! Unhappiness or not having needs met is not a licence to cheat. Chumps didn’t. Chesters had the option to have an honest conversation. Or the agency to leave. Instead they showed a lack of character and lied and withheld information that would have allowed chumps to make an informed decision. Unilaterally decided to cheat.meanwhile chumps are putting their all into the relationship this is why I Trust that they suck.

        • That was meant to read cheaters had the option to have an honest conversation,…but as we all know they don’t!

        • So true, Onwards – Honest conversation is not in a cheater’s vocabulary… They find all kinds of reasons to skirt the truth and place blame others. Most cheaters prefer to maintain the status quo of having a nice, dutiful wife-appliance at home while going to great lengths to keep their deviant activities in the shadows. It’s all a big tangled web of lies to cover what would otherwise be glaring assholiness if the naked truth was known…

      • Mine was very happy with our marriage. He was unhappy with himself so he sought out others to validate him.
        He’d tell them the tall tales of yesteryear when he was a high and mighty executive.

        I’m not taking the blame! No way. I was an excellent wife,love and friend to him. Unfortunately, I didn’t own a backhoe large enough to fill his void of neediness.

      • Mine just said to me. It happens all the time “cheating” justifying he is not an asshole. Like it’s no big deal.

        He also said I’ve done everything you asked…. meaning pay the bills and not introduce our boys to the millennial. So hurtful. Acts like he is a good guy.

  • My first gut feeling was at place that we sat a tables length away from the POS. I couldn’t believe it. She actually shook her tits in his direction. My mind couldn’t seem to process what the hell was going on. Trust yourself. They’re all liars.

    • My first gut feeling was when OW showed up to eat lunch with us. X and I ate lunch together every day for decades. One day, whore is invited and X gives her food off of his plate! I immediately said something about boundaries and how creeped out I was by her.

      What did X do? Took the affair completely underground for a year. Made up out of town work meetings (didn’t know she was with him), scheduled his “dates” when I was working out of town, and even encouraged me to take a trip with one of my kids so he could be with her on his birthday! And I was the one who felt guilty about not being there! There is no such thing as affair proofing one’s marriage. Cheaters will find a way, cause that’s just who they are.

      • I was in the lending business fir years with financial institutions, the first time I got hosed on a loan I made I was really upset. I talked to my boss I had done everything I was supposed to do to qualify this guy but still he defrauded and skipped out on the Liam. My Boss said “Silver you followed the rules, you just can’t win with a crook”! It’s what they do, Cheaters are crooks!

  • I laughed out loud reading this. Makes me realise that the audience for this nonsense is US. THE CHUMPS – people who think everyone is sensitive to commitments and trying to avoid hurting others. Seriously, cheaters can’t do anything with this affair-proofing advice since it’s not their objective. What a belly laugh, thank heavens for you Chump Lady!

    • Yeah how would the cheater ever even read this article?
      Google: How not to accidentally cheat when you’re trying to cheat?
      **Gets out notepad**
      Oh shit. Drinking until 4am with coworkers and telling you’re wife not to come because it would put miles on her car eventhough everyone else’s wife is there. Aggh! Omg keep 9 to 5! Don’t drink yourself into a liver ultrasound!? Invite wife!? Whoops!
      Oh shit. Telling whores you’re single when you’re married is danger danger!? ooh noo! emotional affair is likely! **changes whore’s name in phone back to her real name rather than “edward”** secrets. bad.
      what!? Don’t talk shit to whores about your wife?
      **logs into Tinder… hi umm I didn’t realize it was bad to tell you that i hate my wife and cancel the drinks I’m not supposed to be going on dates with women who aren’t my wife. Don’t meet me in the hot tub please.**
      Close call! I almost accidentally became a cheater!

      • @Whatringofhellisthis that just made me laugh more, very funny, thank you! Seriously I must be recovering well from my trauma this cheating stuff is getting funnier.

      • HAHAHA!! I was actually thinking this: “Would a cheater even read this article”?

        Hell, no. They are too busy looking for articles on HOW to cheat and get away with it. God knows there are plenty of them.

        I believe the only time an article on “affair-proofing” might be useful would be at the beginning of a relationship, when both involved might be inclined to read it and discuss. “Might” being the important word. I think my cheater told me what I wanted to hear in order to get me to commit. He didn’t want ME having other relationships, I suppose, but it was OK for him to unilaterally and covertly change his agreement with me. And now. since that cat is out of the bag, he has decided it isn’t “fair” for me to expect him to only love one person.

        Getting close to buh-bye….but not there yet. I am in awe of all you mighty people! Thank you for the inspiration.

        • Cheater is NOT interested in “affair proofing” the marriage. Period. So obviously this article is intended for the chumps.

          A better title for this is “How to start Pick Me Dancing before you reach the dance floor.”

      • The cheater in my life admitted to going on public forums reading about others cheating. He said he liked being a voyeur for fun, (aka learning what to do and not get caught). He even talked about me on there and just skipped right over the very first response that was sensible and helpful to both of us. He just wanted some other derk to agree with his uncaring, rude & selfish behavior.

        He is not someone who would ever read the column posted above. No way because he doesn’t think he did anything wrong to begin with as it’s all my fault. Poor cheater has to put up with me asking for him to communicate with me while giving himself lying excuses to go ahead with his AP. Apparently asking him to talk one time is nagging. There’s no way I could ever win staying with him.

    • Truth
      Cheaters primary self-reflection is “does it feel good”
      If yes – full speed ahead
      Essentially cheaters are under-developed self-centered children who do what they want without considering impact on others / logical consequences
      Upon discovery – like the kid under the dining room table caught red handed with the forbidden cookies – it’s “not my fault” (with foot stomp) because someone else “made me do it”

      • @TiredChump very true. They might hear a voice very faintly from a far far mountain, calling ‘Stop! This is Wrooooooooong!’ and then they ask themselves “does it feel good”. Then they have a quick check inside their underwear. Yep, looks like it does feel good. Then off they go without a care.

        • Yup. Their penis points them on the path to feeling good. Ultimately, they do use their brains – but only to justify / rationalize their “feel-good” behavior! Cuz if it “feels this good” – oh blissful kismet – then “it can’t be bad.”
          After this, they never hear even the faintest voice of “this is wroooooooong” or “aren’t you marriedddddd” or “shouldn’t i be spending this time with my kidddddds” or “wow, how the F#@! did i get here….”

          • Cheaters are all very aware of what they’re doing- they simply do not care. My cheater ex said that he told himself, “I’m not going to lose my family over this woman”… yet that is exactly what HE did. He is a person who had no problems walking away from his only child for a woman, for baseball games, beer festivals and vacations. If someone can walk away from their child, then who am I? Cheaters are emotionally immature assholes who only think of themselves… what’s in it for me is their only thought.

            • Pret, if he hadn’t walked you would not be any feeling better.

              Mine also said he was not going to lose his family over this woman or those women to be more precise. And when I showed him where the door was he has been still dragging his foot with the separation agreement even though we don’t leave together anymore. He told me the other day that he still does not want to divorce me. He just wants me to supply cake endlessly and he would instead grant me the honor to be called his “wife”.

              “ALL YOU NEED IS TO ACCEPT ME THE WAY I AM AND LOVE ME UNCONDITIONALLY!”

              So my point is, whether cheaters leave themselves or are being helped by chumps, the shitty character will never change. His so-called committment to keep the family intact really meant he’d continue doing what he was doing and I would just pretend I don’t see it. Because, you know, “everybody cheats”. Just accept the realities of life.

              Umm, no, Thanks. Life is much better without constant drama, walking on eggshells and policing. So much better!

      • TiredChump: I was just thinking the same thing this morning…mstbxh is the most selfish immature self centered creature I have ever met…his every decision is based on how will this benefit me and only me… I don’t think he believes in God.. I think he believes he is God…sad sick POS.

      • Tired Chump,
        SO TRUE!!! In fact, throughout our neighborhood, he was actually known as “the grown up kid!” Of course that was because he was “so much fun”!! Little did they know how impossibly similar to an actual child he was, and continues to be. Temper tantrums happened all the time, I just didn’t realize what they were, really. I just looked at it like: don’t rock the boat. Don’t do or say anything to make him mad or he’ll start yelling and be miserable to be around.

        And even now, he’s basically throwing a huge, giant temper tantrum because I apparently didn’t ask him (since this most recent D-Day in July) about “working on us.” Not once since then! (How dare I, right?!)

        Buddy, you made it adamantly clear you wanted no part in this marriage; and if you’d wanted to try “working on us,” you should have started before I found out you were with the whore a SECOND time, that goes back at least 2 years (though that’s being generous since I highly doubt they even broke it off after the first D-Day).

        But I’m the one who’s not being fair apparently. So I get to deal with a vindictive asshole who’s withholding money because he had “a few issues” come up.

        Oh, the one where your whore wrecked her car? The car you bought her instead of getting a loan to take your van out of my name?

        And it’s not fair that I bought homeowner’s insurance and “used his money.” That I didn’t even use! I used mine!! So he thinks he can steal the refund check they sent for the overage amount.

        Such an asshole. I can’t wait til this divorce is over and done with, and our mutual credit cards bills are paid off, and the house & my car are in my name, and the van’s in his.

      • When our MC asked me what I wanted, the very first thing out of my mouth was, “To be married to an adult.”

        He cannot see three paces in front of his dick, and “love” means “orgasm”.

        And he wants to be worshiped. He is unemployed, near 60, has severe entitlement issues. Any takers?

  • No surprise seeing this resurface once again. As I’m reading it I have to say it’s no longer my problem since I passed that torch.

    I can just imagine the slunt living in fear over the past few years putting her energies into keeping a manchild who led a double life. Her famous line, “He won’t cheat on ME.” Yeah, the leash isn’t working.

  • I had the privilege of going on a date with my STBX, our children, and his (then) OW and her kids to the National Zoo. Way to try to ruin the f’ing pandas.

    • My Stbxw would invite the OM to join us when I would met her for lunch at her lunchroom at her work. Doesn’t matter if you meet them for lunch/dinner.

  • KK uses the “bad marriage” line to anyone who’ll listen.

    In the mind of a cheater: “if for any reason I’m not feeling happy, or not having what I want to happen actually happen, it’s a bad marriage.”

    And … playing the role of marriage police is definitely analogous to trying to childproof a kitchen. The difference is that we can choose to stop being the marriage police once we realize that treating a supposedly grown adult like a child is a fool’s errand.

    • This is exactly right. How can anyone teach these “useless assholes” to value and love their spouse, to remember their vows, their children, their grandchildren, their parents, their in laws. The family that cherished them. Who hasn’t been taught these lessons of decency and honesty long before marriage? We were all taught them and we know the difference between right and wrong. We made a commitment to each other and more importantly the commitment to our children to keep them in a safe family. It’s not about being unhappy or being misunderstood or any other excuses they conjur up, it’s about wanting sex with someone strange. It’s that pathetic! Trying to recapture their youth so they don’t have to face their own mortality. And guess what, they get sick die just like everyone else ! They leave a legacy of broken hearts and betrayal all for a bit of strange.

    • Exactly! I will never play marriage police again – it destroyed my soul.

      If I’m ever in a relationship where I feel the need to do this it will be over.

      • Amen! “If I’m ever in a relationship where I feel the need to do this it will be over.” I can’t say enough about this…I will NEVER try to convince a friend or a lover to be with me ever again. Chose to be with me or don’t and be straight about it (my preferred method of breaking up vs exploding a 23 year marriage and a beautiful family).

          • Love this quote Langele! I second that! Dinner with adult daughter tonight to celebrate her first book illustrations published!! (yay!) — and my settlement agreement signing. We are so much happier without the dark cloud of him hovering around!

  • Um Dr.??? Saltz? Really, Doctor of what and from where? Writing style suggests high school. Yikes.

  • Multiple articles? Why? Only one needed…..

    One-step Affair Proofing Your Marriage; 100% guaranteed to Work, by Tired Chump

    If you are a man, keep it in your pants
    If you are a woman, keep others out

  • Do not air your dirty laundry. Yup, my husband decided it was okay to tell my cousin all about me. The problems that I had with early menopause. Told the ho that I spent all his money and never cleaned the house(lies). Told her that I never wanted to have sex with him and never wanted to spend time with him. Yup, it was all my fault that he cheated on me.

    People cheat because they choose to cheat. You can be the best wife in the world and they still will cheat. My estranged husband cheated because he got off on it. And by making me look like the bitch who abused his love in his mind his cheating was justified. To this day he continues to tell me if I would have only went away more with him. Gave him more attention he never would have cheated. Poor little neglected husband.

    • Stop giving that idiot chances to tell you anything at all. WTF-ever, cheater. Go spin your stories to the latest target.

      • Exactly! Right after I filed, X asked to speak with me outside before he came to get DD. He spent the whole time trying to spin all the bad behavior into a tidy little package…”although this was the biggest mistake of my life and I will regret it for the rest of my life, you were just TOO perfect a wife and mother that it made me feel badly about myself.”
        Talk about a back handed compliment;) I laughed in his face, said nothing and went inside and have never spoken to him again other than logistical drop off/pick up/school/medical as agreed upon in the settlement.
        Don’t let that POS speak to you. Hang up or better yet don’t answer. Get a parenting app if you need it. I just paid for it myself and told him this was how it was going to be. I don’t respond to texts, calls or emails.

        • Yes, same here: “you were so amazing, you made me feel inadequate and I was forced to do those bad things with that woman!”

          LOSERS

    • “People cheat because they choose to cheat. You can be the best wife in the world and they still will cheat. My estranged husband cheated because he got off on it. And by making me look like the bitch who abused his love in his mind his cheating was justified. To this day he continues to tell me if I would have only went away more with him. Gave him more attention he never would have cheated. Poor little neglected husband.”

      Exactly. It is a choice! Mine felt he had missed out on life because we married young. I asked him what he had missed out on, exactly, STDs? I was young when we married too, and never felt the need to look for something other. But he felt that he ‘deserved’ more than what he had in life, which was a loving wife and two kids, a home in the suburbs, and a great job.

      I think he is afraid of his mortality or something. Idiot.

      • Mine couldn’t stand the idea of other men having had more sexual relationships than he had had. He felt he must have missed out on something really important. This made him want to sleep with other women, but first he had to devalue me so that he could justify it in his little pea brain.

    • I still hear the excuses…I work on the cars too much…I spend too much time with the kids…I’m too controlling…I didn’t pay her enough attention…etc. This is where I’m starting to listen to CL’s advice: don’t try to untangle them or convince them. They have different values, and you will never convince them this was their fault.

    • Yes! I’m sure my ex told his work ho the same. He probably left out the part that he was a lousy lover. No affection. Miserable all day then expected me to want him. Yeah right. But still I stayed with the asshole and spackled for him and did not cheat. Trust that they suck 😡

  • The only way to “affair-proof” your marriage is to pick correctly before said marriage occurs. By the time these symptoms are appearing, you’ve already got a cheater on your hands & said marriage is dead. Get your ducks in a row, lawyer up, file & GO. You have nothing that can be salvaged, sorry. I sure learned this the hard way!

    • This is the key Sunny. I always knew Dr, Cheaterpants was a taker and I was the giver in life. I used to joke that he was a sprinter in life and I was a cross country runner. He is high maintenance and needy. He can turn on the charm, be the most engaging and friendly person in the world—when he wants to. And he can only maintain it for so long. I never thought of him as a narcissist but he definitely lives ALL areas of his life in the idealize, devalue, discard cycle.

      We had similar backgrounds and similar goals for life and family. I confused intelligence for character. I won’t say I missed the signs of his entitlement and self centeredness. I just never in a million years thought he’d throw away his wife, kids, home life, etc… for a damsel in distress, ho type. But he did it twice.

      There were way too many signs to list. My mother would bring over treats for us during the day and would later ask me and/or the kids if we enjoyed only to find out cheater ate EVERY bit of it before we got any. She started separating into individual servings and putting our names on them. Wow, just wow. He’d be too cheap to buy us all drinks at a football game and we would have to share, but then he’d guzzle it all because he was thirsty and it was hot. He never packed a diaper bag or thought of the kids and what they would need, I always just thought he was clueless. The last one for this posting, he had issues with his bosses (3 over the 18 years) and his work colleagues so he’d ask be to ‘do that thing you do where you tell me what they could be thinking’. Yep, he had no mechanism for putting himself in other people shoes and seeing things outside of himself.

      So yes, Sunny. The only way to affair proof your marriage is to not marry an entitled, self centered person to begin with. I missed the early signs although they were somewhat subtle then, he was love bombing me.

      • Twice, your ex sounds almost exactly like mine. Very entitled and self-centered, I actually used to tease him when he made a self-centered comment – I used to say, “OMG, it IS all about you, isn’t it?”

        He was also very inappropriate when he was grooming his next target. I do agree with Dr. Laura on this one – her key to a happy marriage is “choose wisely, treat kindly” and I did not choose wisely at all. The love bombing makes it hard to see the red flags, but I was an adult and will admit my mistake. I am working hard to not do it again.

        The “affair-proofing” info is total BS. If you need to read this type of article, it is already too late. People who don’t cheat, DON’T CHEAT! They wouldn’t even think of crossing the line, and people who do, well, they don’t even see a line. Major boundary problems.

        My therapist believes there are “serial cheaters” (most of ones Chumps deal with) and there are “one-time cheaters” – situations where people go outside the marriage once when they are not getting what they need. But then they express real remorse and change the marriage, (yes, this is the unicorn scenario). I’m not sure I agree, but if this article has a chance to help anyone, it is the “one-timers” only.

        • Boundary problems. This is exactly it. I think ex knew others saw a boundary there which is why he hesitated and then kept it secret, but he saw no boundary there himself and felt perfectly entitled to cross it because he wasn’t happy so that made it all ok.

          Schmoopie also saw no boundary there. Her husband cheated on her so clearly there were no boundaries and she was entitled to fuck somebody else’s husband as long as he was willing. Consenting adults after all, what do the spouses have to do with it.

        • My stbxw was a supposedly a “one-timer”. She did everything the article said not to do. I warned her she was going down a bad path, didn’t stop her. If a person choices to cheat there is nothing you can do to stop it.

          • Mine too. I actually saw my wife’s second affair coming even before I believe anything happened with guy #2. I told her I didn’t like a certain relationship/friendship she had. “We are just running buddies,” she would say. So what did she do? She got more secretive and lied more. And what happened???? Yup, DDay #2!

          • Yes sir chump a lot
            I believe that is true..your co worker doesn’t just fall in your lap…ok that’s my try at humor. But to your point, they are grown adults, and you cannot control what they will do. my husband worked with a whore that they had rapport probably based on the fact that his gross male friend introduced them, then she was hired, then she climbed on him, then it was history. They can bond at a job because they are ‘working’ together and they then become ‘friends’ or jump into bed right away….forget about getting to know each other …especially if the ho worker is an easy piece that ‘s looking for money and to be supported and …shes in the lonely hearts club…

      • Your ex sounds a lot like mine although in all fairness mine would remember the diaper bag and he did buy the kids their own drinks. Other than that, he was still selfish, entitled and living in the idealize, devalue, discard cycle. The fact that he would remember the diaper bag is what made him superior and deserving of better than Chumpinrecovery.

        • Oh my ex would bring the diaper bag, just never pack stuff in it like snacks or drinks or repack the damn thing. And he’s a control/neat freak to the extreme. One time he was ripping me in front of my family about how disorganized and cluttered the diaper bag was (in his joking way), he was so frustrated he never had what he needed in there. Then we all realized it was my brother & SIL’s diaper bag!

          He can never do any wrong, it’s always someone elses’ fault (usually mine), and he’s the victim in the dynamic. This is who he is and will always be. He truly believes in his victimhood. His perception is his reality. I will never fix that and he will never see that. And news flash for young schmoopie, since I went no contact and took myself out of the triangle, she now gets to be the bad guy in his miserable life!

          • Reminded me of a story. Cheater once flipped out at me because a fern in the living room was looking distressed to him. Clearly, I was failing to take care of it. Yet another instance of my neglect and disrespect.

            I let him go on for awhile.

            Then I reminded him that it was a silk fern that he bought for that room. (I’m not actually a fan of faux plants.)

            Apology? Nope. Of course not.

      • I think we were married to the same person. I also mistook ability & confidence for character. I am the opposite but I can too often put myself in another’s shoes to the point where I have ascribed my own feelings to others. Narcs simply do NOT think & react the way most feeling people do. I find it fascinating that they are all the same! How can professionals NOT be schooled on this type?

      • Same here. I knew wasband was damaged with a bad childhood. I saw he was self centered and selfish, but I never thought that he would throw away his loving wife and loving kids for the neighborhood party girl meth head..

        Ironically I read this while getting ready for child support court with wasband. I am such a chump that for years I actually thought that if someone wluld have just told him that talking to another female was bad, and not to air our dirty laundry. I always made excuses for him, and poor little sad sausage just did not understand.. .. .. it took me years to get it threw my head that yes, he DID understand.. .. he just did not care.

        Now I sit here waiting. He showed up early only to walk out before the case worker came. This court is to lower his payments because poor little manchild is not working. He couldn’t even sit for 15 minutes, now we wait to see if he shows up.. .. THAT is how much his kids mean to him. What a joke, and here I was feeling sorry for him again

        • May I ask how long he has been paying child support…X was always financially reckless in the marriage but for 14 months now after the divorce he has paid on time every week….I know I have no control over his stopping paying but I can’t help waiting for the other shoe to drop. He has been demoted and I fear he will pull this too.
          (He also is too important to ever wait for anything;)

          • He paid for 3 months after our divorce and then he ghosted. Has not made a single payment since then. That was 4 years ago. Our court today was actually to lower his payment. He had a damn good job (That I helped him get) when we divorced so his child support was 1,188 per month for 3 kids.. .. of course sad sausage is not working, refuses to work and so he filed for a reduction. He got it. He is now court ordered to pay 339 + 69 for arrears a month.. ..

            I have no doubt in my mind that he will not make a single payment.

            • Mrs. Vain,
              I am very sad to hear this! My ex-husband is a high earner, too, who tried to wriggle out of supporting our kids. He pays some now and complains about it, shoe taking exotic vacations with whoever he is dating and buying himself luxury goods.

      • Mine is a taker too. I never saw it as much of an issue before, but now I see it everywhere. And now I’m tired of it.

  • After 34 years & a unbelievably cruel abandonment , he said “if you didn’t nag ..I wouldn’t have fallen out of love with you”.

    I quess the now dead whore wouldn’t have ever nagged!

    Fuck him . 😈

    • Yup me too. See my post ( first one today—bad night). I got the nagging thing and it was 34 years too!! Wow,

    • Yup me too. See my post ( first one today—bad night). I got the nagging thing and it was 34 years too!! Wow.

      • Newlady15
        They will use any reason to justify their cheating. If they were so unhappy why did they stay married so long??

        Because they wanted best of both worlds. He had ED for years..I put up with that! Why didn’t I cheat? I had more of a reason than him.

        We chumps know that affair proffing is impossible when your living with a narc sociopath. Some men will never cheat because they are moral & truly love & respect their wives. Unfortunately most men will if no one is looking.

        ((HUGS)) ❤️

        • Hugs right back Kathleen. You’re right and I said that to my ex—if you were so unhappy why did you seem so happy when we were travelling playing on our boat in our trailer and then in our cottage and house in Florida…all image management and using me I now figure. And if you were so miserable why stick around for 34 years AND ask me to remarry you during reconciliation(yup even had a gag-worthy vow renewal visit to new York in Central Park). Thanks a lot a##hole!

          • Yes to all of this… 40 years of buying houses, cottages, raising kids, graduations, weddings, grand babies, 16 years of early retirement, 10 cruises around the globe, loads of dinner parties, freedom to do exactly what he pleased. Alas, not enough never enough! Always looking for more “happiness”. It’s insanity !

    • Their definition of “nag” is also on wheels, ever changing. Any marital friction is a vicious attack to these entitled and petulant children. You are not the boss of them.

      Mention something twice? NAG! Ask the status of something they promised to do? NAG! Ask them to stop for bread and milk on the way home? NAG! Ask them how their day was? NAG! (Especially when they were spending part of that day charming some ho at work; you have now forced them to think of a quick lie on how they spent their time or who they stopped for drinks with).

      Any interaction where they must perform as normal, decent, *reciprocal* partners is seen as nagging.

      • A variant of ‘being nagged’–told how your partner (Chump) feels about your interaction. Calmly tell them that you are hurt because they repeatedly lied to you (some unprovoked shaggy dog story, gaslighting, etc.), you get, ‘I didn’t come here to be lectured by you.’ Well, I didn’t get into this relationship to be deceived.

      • Lol, yup! That, right there. Doesn’t matter what was said, or how carefully it was said-if it came from your mouth…NAG…
        Yay, I’m not the nag any more….
        But when you finally stop nagging, it’s like they passive/aggressively provoke you to nag them again; and then what you nag about, they intentionally repeat the behavior and even kick it up a notch, in defiance. Mindfucks.
        Not taking bait anymore. Even if he’s feeding the kid too much sugar, video games and late nights. They claim to want the appearance of co-parenting, but are quick to excuses/ responsibility dodging/ telling you what they think you want to hear, when you try to have an adult conversation; then they get all butt-hurt when you cut them out of your life, instead of bullshitting with them, to keep up appearances.
        Gosh, what a bitter, unforgiving bitch, I be.

      • Duped

        Yup! He moved into the whores home when I bought him half out of the house. He was angry.,
        Don’t know why all the anger? This is what he wanted so he said . Lived with whore 2 years traveling the world ( while I’m barely getting by)

        She got hit by a car while walking in a parking lot.
        Karma… I prayed they would get it! I quess she did… 5 weeks after she was buried he found another woman. He’s afraid to be alone.. fucking
        coward. Told me he loved her.. tru wuv? I don’t think so. He didn’t even grieve for the dead whore.

        I feel nothing… they deserve whatever they get for the pain & devastation they caused. ( she knew he was married )

        2 years divorced now but it’s hard .. hoping to get to Meh.

        • Hi Kathleen. So sorry that you are struggling. I emphasize with you. I cannot believe how stupid I had been that all this effort that my husband put into living a double life all these years and I never knew…but I knew all the games he played…I just never knew I what I was dealing with. THEN it became clear when his whore walked into hospice. She was a bold whore. SHe wanted me to see her. Somebody summoned her there….she never said she hello to me because she was his whore. Cheaters husband ushered us all out of hospice after he was gone 10 mins. Now I know why it was so Howorker could sit with him and cry or climb on top..who knows with that crazy bitch that she obviously was.
          She knew he was married and she had a long relationship with him. Items are missing out of the house because I figure they are at her house. He must have been living at her ‘beachhouse brothel’ while pretending to be on a work trip or an extended work trip with whore hidden in hotel rooms….
          Funny you say they deserve it…I feel like Whore had it all wrapped up in the bag, she had it made, she was sure she had my husband and probably they had a exit plan to ‘dump me’ little did I know. I wonder what she thought when he died on her? Did she go crying back to the company and they were consoling her? that is the Only thing that stopped that slippery beach clam from climbing on my husband ! That is what stopped it. But I was being sarcastic about her crying…why would she cry? She was paid well for her ‘services’ she was getting jewels and trips and most of all our marital asssets…big whore made out well! she thought he wuved her and I guess with all her outpouring of ‘affection’ to him, he thought she ‘wuved him’ … she was no dumb whore….she knew what to do to get the ‘bank vault’ …his big whore was expensive…she thought highly of herself f ing a married man. AND best of all she gets to go back to her comfy life. although loverboy won’t be slipping in to bang her anymore ! I found pics of him driving his boat, closeup big grin, closer and closer and closer….who was taking that picture…the big smelly clam girl on the dock at her beachhouse? bingo !
          so I get it when you say they deserve it ! I fantasize everyday that that Whore gets Karma…but I know that she never will… and the whore is on the board council at the local church…what a whorey hypocrite !!!! I’ve had nightmares over their actions. I am devastated. I hope you get to meh ! I know I am nowhere close to that ..

        • Kathleen, my comment to you had a typo.. I said cheaters husband ushered us out…I type too fast….it was cheaters sister (my husbands sister) ushered her family and me out of hospice because I know now that they were hiding slut whore in a room and wanted her to be able to sit with cheater who died…that’s why his sister wanted us out of there. Cheater sister was running the game and was the one that was hell bent on image control of my cheater

          • Duped

            I’m so sorry you had to go thru all of that pain & humiliation. But now your free of the cheating narc & have nothing to do with the low class whore. Your ex sister in law is a real
            piece of crap. I would never bother with these toxic people anymore. Put yourself first!

            I’m still waiting for my ex to retire.. he won’t he says .. he’s waiting for ne to go first. My ex in laws dropped me after being in the family for 34 years.

            I take one day at a time & try not to think about the devastation they both did to me.
            Cheating is painful enough but to slander, laugh at me & put the whore in my face was
            cruel. When I caught them together I put him in the basement until the divorce was final.
            He tortured me talking on the phone with her
            so I could hear.. telling her I smelled, stole from him & how sex was so great with her.

            So many years wasted. I want to find peace &
            live normally. I think it will take a long time to
            feel secure & trust again. As terrible as it sounds, I wish he would’ve died instead of whore. Knowing he got what he wanted but
            lost what he needed…take care & I send you
            Hugs 💜

            • Kathleen, Sorry that you had to deal with that selfish POS, the nerve of him badmouthing you to that whore. As if she is something special.
              I woke up a little too late. I realize that men that make a decent living they look for a HO on the side because they need constant attention and ego stroking and or they feel entitled. There are even websites for these men that promote cheating. Guys like these also have a grandiose sense of self importance.
              I have info for you, you can collect social security benefits as a divorced spouse. His social security benefits that is. I don’t know what state you live in but google it. I know what you mean about so many years wasted. And years being taken from you because those years went to some HO that never bothered to look for her own man. And then she gets to live on like nothing happened, enjoying her life like she was some gorgeous Barbie doll (which she was not at all !!!! it wasn’t like he found some gorgeous babe) Anyway, I don’t really give an F about her besides the fact that I think she’s a skank and hopefully what comes around goes around. I know what you mean that you would rather see him dead than her, in my case I wish the pole vaulting queen had died instead, then at least I could have dealt with Mr. Cheating pants and then I would have seen what would happen.
              Take care as well. I wish you all the best.
              Hugs …

              • Duped

                I do get some of his soc security cause he asked to receive it years ago. Not much.
                Where you divorced when your ex died?

                If feel bad you went thru similar treatment like slot of us here. I live in New York. Where are you?

                Anyway God bless you & stay strong!
                We all here at CN need each other for support. 😊

            • Kathleen
              I tried to reply below, it did not work. No, I was not divorced but after finding out about his howorker after he died, then I found out that it was definitely her and all the other info I found out. He was not old enough to retire but I found retirement SS paperwork for two years out, he must have been planning on retiring early? Why would he do that? So that I would not be entitled to any of it? I am 7 years younger than him. I figure he was getting ducks in a row because with whore’s probably prodding, he may have been plotting divorce also beause there are assets missing, they don’t match his salary. Either he bought her a house or he spent it all on various people, or the whore has it…I don’t know,..He was writing himself checks , prob for cash to fund the whore.
              we all suffer at the hands of these deceitful acts. I don’t know how I will recover with the dupery..i have been heartbroken, emotionally sick, not able to concentrate all this and I am still not getting better. I know I am not the only one going through this but it still makes it sickening
              I’m surprised I’m still standing. Especially all the dumb moves I made not hiring the right lawyer etc. and the sister getting more over on me while I was still numb from the death and what I secretly learned. (it’s not like they came forward and told me!)

  • Why would cheaters go out of their way to protect their marriage when they can instead make it worse (even if just in their own mind) in order to justify their affairs? No, perceived misery is the currency of cheaters, and they hoard those cheater chips like a dragon with gold.

    • Vix, right??? X loved being victim more than anything. It was being a success that gave him so much anxiety. Destroying his marriage, family, and career was a tidy way of ensuring that no one can ever really have any expectations he must to live up to. Now he has a big bad wolf (me) to refer to anytime anyone wants him to be a real boy.

    • Yes, Vix, insightful. Cheaters are actually attracted to and incentivized by the slights that provide them with victimhood, so they aren’t going to resolve them away. They’re too busy inventing such slights to risk losing them. How many stories are there here of chumps, in all earnestness, trying to resolve some supposed matter once they learn of it? And the cheater always resents them all the more for their efforts. Why? Because cheaters WANT the complaint. They want victimhood and the power and justification it brings – not resolution (usually no resolution is actually needed…they really hate having gripes be revealed as unjustified even more so than having them resolved).

      Somewhere between the emotional-ego feed of cheating sex and the emotional-ego feed of self-pity is the emotional-ego feed of this self-justification. It’s like a license away from adult decency; a license to indulge their core pettiness. At last! They are like bratty children who need an excuse to go play in the mud like they want to. They hate the impulse control of keeping their party clothes clean. Those are for image management. They don’t experience any emotional-ego rewards from the thought processes and self-mastery known as character. It doesn’t feel good to them. It feels like pointless restraint. They don’t get any dopamine from the achievement or knowledge that they are doing something that affirms their principles and strengthens or deepens a human bond. Or, vice versa, they have never engaged in those processes and so now can’t experience such rewards. To them, all human bonds are superficial. So are the rewards. There is no gain in giving.

      • Well said, TKO. The main gain in giving they get (when they donate time or money) is admiration, ‘Isn’t he a great guy!’ Liar: ‘My nagging, ungrateful partner (chump) might be mad, but everyone else, who matter, thinks I’m a great guy! I AM great!’

      • TKO I am bookmarking this for your comment as a future reminder when I muse on why I couldn’t satisfy my X. He would not let go of his complaints no matter what I did or said and trying to resolve his issues only resulted in more anger. He even seemed to invent new complaints going back 13 years to the time we spent dating. He had been saving up these tiny grievances, keeping them by to justify himself when he was cheating, lying to me, abusing me. I suspect that the nice things he did for me throughout our marriage were his secret way of making himself feel like he wasn’t such a pile of crap for what he was doing behind the scenes. I was actually a great wife and mother and he had to dig deep and do a lot of work to make our divorce my fault and deflect from the obvious implications of the insertion of the home wrecker with 4 kids into my place in his family.

        • Nodancing-
          LOL on the ‘inventing new complaints!’ It was amazing what complaints came out of the woodwork… I had NO IDEA what a horrible person I was. Funny how he never mentioned it before. I can’t think of any examples right now, but it was astonishing the things I found out about myself dating YEARS back.

          • He was not unhappy, until you found out. Then the justifications, marital history rewrite, etc.
            As soon as I heard all of that I walked out of counseling. Liar.
            I was my husbands best friend, love, travel and hunting companion, until I wasn’t.
            As soon as I found out, the first thing he said was, “she’s my best friend”, and “ I wasn’t happy”
            With that I was done, didn’t matter what came after. He dropped her and begged me for a year to no avail
            I talked to his ex wife, guess what lines she heard when he had the affair on her?
            These people are chronically miserable, OR are con men that pull out that shit when they need it.
            Just Fuck off and leave me alone asshole. Go back to your bestie. You can’t unknow any of this.
            The most emotionally devastating 2 years of me life.
            Protect your emotional health and get away from them. He’s in my rear view mirror. Xx

      • Spot on, TKO. My cheater believes there is “no way to make me happy”. I wasn’t happy when he was employed (because he was cheating with Schmoopie all over Europe and I knew something was wrong HELLO), and now I’m not happy because he is unemployed (and not attempting to find a job while I am struggling attempting to make ends meet). The poor guy just can’t win.

    • “Why would cheaters go out of their way to protect their marriage when they can instead make it worse (even if just in their own mind) in order to justify their affairs? No, perceived misery is the currency of cheaters, and they hoard those cheater chips like a dragon with gold.”

      So true Free Vix. Every year was worse than the previous. He wore me down so far I think mirroring me became impossible. He insisted on taking control of my money so we could ‘get somewhere’. The hatred was what shocked me the most. He hated me.

      It was my way out. I said no.

  • Oh yes they do make you dine with affair partners! Hell they even include their children. They love doing this. The freaks.

    • Dine with, become friends with, babysit each others children, confide in….they LOVE it when the AP is one of the gang!

      • Cheater:
        “Why don’t you hang out with her? You two are very similar and she just moved to the city. She just broke up with her boyfriend and she’s lonely.”

        He comforted her alright!

    • Yep, absolutely. Mine got sociopath “high score” points by parading me plus all (or a lot of) his OWs at the same restaurants, different times, for all the male waitstaff to see. He thought this make him look enviable and successful to all those other guys.
      I think my X’s ultimate high (from ANYthing, not just sex) is to evoke the ENVY of others. It is the ultimate died-and-went-to-heaven kibble for him. I think he actually would (and does) do frankly dangerous shit just to feel successful and ENVIED. (Just one flavor of narc cheater, I guess).

      • He took me to a restaurant where he dined with whore. Why do I know this because the waitress knew him and was rubbing up to him. My whole family was there but he sat at the other side of the table, just in case Whore from work walked in and ‘caught’ him with his wife. Yeah, I have it all figured out…

        • Sardonic laugh.
          I was duped the entire freaking time even when he was caught or had to admit due to stds.
          Took me all this time to get to dead center.
          Need to get the legal done. Not sure how to proceed.

        • During wreck when silly me thought it was a long distance emotional affair he suggested we stay at a new fancy hotel in town. We didn’t have a lot of money, mainly because he pissed it away on himself so it would be a treat. Turns out it was the same hotel he took German ho to when she flew in. I suspect he would have booked us into the same room, just fucked up plain and simple. Oh and this place is about 2 kms from our house and we live in a small town so he clearly wasnt worried about who saw them together. Told me he was on a camp helping disabled people surf !

      • Its all about envy with these assholes. They are envious of others and so they have to try to stave it off somehow.

  • And why is there so much focus on the cheaters assumed “misery?” they are not really miserable. I repeat, they are not really miserable!!! Yes, they are miserable people. But no, they are just using that “misery” as a pick up line. Why would their “misery” be the one thing they weren’t lying about?

    • Every time I imagine that my STBX feels miserable, i smack myself on the side of the head …Cheaters are relieved to have their double lives out in the open…..and the spouse pick me dancing away.
      Don’t fool yourself – they are happy. They DO EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT ANYONE ELSE – KIDS/DOGS/IN LAWS/THEIR OWN PARENTS AND SIBLINGS.

      So – go as fast as you can to make yourself happy without them!

    • Leave,
      I think that a lot of the liars might not be miserable (to them, cake is good–life is good). However, I think that some are miserable. They ‘go wrong,’ though, by refusing to discuss with their partners, who even sometimes ask them if everything is good/ok, the problems/liars’ misery and lying about everything being fine–until they officially discard their chump partners or reveal their affairs.

      • Rockstarwife i agree with you that they *think* they are miserable within their otherwise idyllic lives because they feel trapped. They feel they deserve to be happy and their loving wives and families just arent doing it for them. But…they have no idea what it means to be really happy. Or really miserable for that matter.

    • This is one reason why a cheater cannot relate to a chump’s pain. Hell, cheater had a GREAT time cheating!

    • THey are NOT miserable. They never once think about us. They are thinking about that whore and how she operates in bed and it consumes them. They are caught out. and that smart whore is laughing cuz she’s got our husbands wrapped around her finger, well at least that is what I totally imagine happened in my case. Whore bag worked overtime to keep husband hooked because he was probably daydreaming about miss guzzler

  • I am pretty sure none of this so-called advice would have helped me at all. My cheater insisted that I “friend” his OW on Facebook along with all the other people who knew they were cheating. Must have been fun for them to watch me have conversations with the witch then message privately about how stupid I was! I felt like such a fool! As soon as the affair went physical I noticed that each and every one of these low lives had “unfriended or blocked me” from their Facebook page. Everyone knew but ME!

    • Ha, me too! I was told to introduce myself to the OM. “He’s a great guy and a good friend of mine.” Yeah, no thanks. I saw affair #2 coming but couldn’t stop it. I tried through pick-me-dancing and trying to “convince” her, but it didn’t work. You can’t control anyone but yourself. I think by that time, I understood that….I was just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

  • “Meals together are such an affair deterrent! Because cheaters NEVER make chumps dine with their affair partners. That just never, EVER happens.”

    My ex brought her boyfriend (and his wife) around me and the kids all the time. And she never showed one hint of discomfort (nor did he). It was all a good time. In fact, the fact that they could do that had me convinced that nothing was going on. The reason being, if I ever tried something like that and brought someone else I was sleeping with over to hang out with my family, I’d have a nervous breakdown on the spot – but those two? Piece of cake.

    I think some of these “experts” have the impression that everyone feels some level of shame or empathy. As we’ve all learned, that’s simply not true.

    • I totally agree with you. I would meet my stbxw for lunch at her work. She would invite the OM to our table. They acted so normal that when she finally got caught I thought it was a couple of other men (who knows, she could have been banging them also). I would have been so nervous I would have confessed on the spot if I had my AP with me. I was told they can do this because they compartmentize their cheating. It still blows my mind that she “rubbed” it in my face. That is one of the reasons I am divorcing her.

    • Yes, this. They are so reptilian-ly soul-less that they actually enjoy a power play of dangling their destruction of you, right in front of you, and never for a moment display the least bit of discomfort. Shame requires that there first be a human soul present. And as for the “experts”, it’s as though they imagine that in all cases they are talking about human beings just like themselves. As though, for them, it’s a given that the incredible complexity of the human mind simply develops properly in everyone who isn’t a serial killer. It’s really quite funny. It’s as though they have no awareness that creatures, human variants, do exist who have entirely different workings inside. They are developmentally broken. Why would you make a livelihood out of such a field of human breakdown and then remain so harmfully ignorant of the field’s most central truths? They are like a priest I once knew who’s entire reason for being seemed to be, ironically, to assert that evil doesn’t actually exist – only misunderstanding.

  • Misery loves company. Boy does it ever. And it also loves for that company to agree that it is just too completely fabulous for whoever it has decided to fuck over. Misery must move on. Misery deserves to be happy after all. Blah blah blah… Robotic cliche after robotic cliche.

  • “Meals together are such an affair deterrent! Because cheaters NEVER make chumps dine with their affair partners. That just never, EVER happens”

    It happens all the time from what I can tell from these boards. Ex “ran into” a “friend” while at the pool with the kids (now I know why he was so keen on getting a membership at that specific pool) and we all got invited to dinner with her family. Ex made a show of being best buds with her husband (who was also his flight student) and Schmoopie made a show of making friends with me (never mind that she still managed to keep the topic of conversation on herself the whole time). Meanwhile, their four kids who were there at the time ignored our three kids with the exception of the eldest who actually made an honest effort to interact (he is a sweetheart, I have no problem with him, just his mom). This was shortly after ex and Schmoopie started fucking each other behind all our backs.

    • Yeah, “meals together” never stopped him from cheating. In fact, he brought in Schmoopie (all the way from France!) to a board/planning meeting our non-profit put on as an “expert”. Yes, I was there. It was, according to him the first time they fucked, but it had been in the planning stages for a LONG time. All it took was my trusting, chumpy self, and a few hours away from me in a large hotel. When I look at photos from that meeting, it makes me sick to my stomach.

  • Great article! If they are going to cheat, they are going to cheat! You can’t stop them and cheating is never an option even if you are having some problems. My XH was having affair with neighbor directly behind us. I once went with my then husband to a birthday party in OW’s back yard for her little girl. Her whole family was there! Two weeks later I invited her to my house for a cookout i was having for my SIL. Now i can laugh about what a fool i must have looked like, but not the months after Dday. I was pissed! Glad she declined invitation. Cheaters do not care. They have no regards for anyone but themselves

  • Who would want to have an affair with some poor me type who complains all the time??? That just seems so not sexy.

    • I once had a coworker who would confide in me regarding his terrible awful wife who also happened to be dying from a brain tumor. She was just so unpleasant to be around. Listening to him go on about it certainly didn’t make me want to fuck him it made me think “what a pos”.

      • Exactly. Who listens to these monsters and thinks now that is someone i really want to get to know better.

        • Apparently, the hood rat thing wasband is still with is one of those types of women who think a man bitching about his wife is sexy.

          I still have no idea what he told her about me but she did call me on his phone to tell me off about how I was not treating HIM good and how I make him feel bad.. .. ..opps sorry, I guess pointing out that his staying out all night and fucking over his wife and kids made him feel bad.. .. And I still haven’t figured out how I was treating HIM bad when I was staying home, paying all the bills, taking care of his children, washing his clothes and cleaning the house was treating him badly..

          But whatever he told her, she felt like he was a great man with a bad wife and she took it upon herself to SAVE him.. .. she saw all that we had (5 br house, 4 wheelers, pool, cars, trucks, boats) and thought he bought all that… .. I guess she is finding out that he don’t. Of course that is somehow my fault too..

    • It’s a strategy they use to let APs know that they are ready and ‘available’ to cheat. It’s like fishing. They just keep casting until someone bites.

  • WOW… if only my STBX had read every one of those… since he ended up doing almost every single one of those with his younger “work spouse”…..she was also married too…both of them should have read it… what a bunch of BULL!!!
    A disgusting cheater because they WANT to and they can. My STBX had a year now of wrong choices that included spending all of our savings and his business profit…now he has lost his me, our marriage, our family, his job and his business….he knew the consequences while he was fucking Ratchet Kelly in hotels but if only he had read this article…..

    • Well… he got pretty much what he deserved. It’s called consequences… let’s hope the mistress has what it takes to “make up” for all his losses… somehow I think not. Karma is such a bitch.

  • Classic goal post moving. This article does nothing more than give the cheater a broader platform to sharpen and base a critique of chump from.

    Mine went so actually far as to get “marriage help” books, I am assuming as a less ditch “gift” from the affair partner, and promptly hid them in the garage. When I was cleaning out the house I found six or seven of such books in a case. Remarkably, these aforementioned books were not read or even opened.

    The extent cheaters go to prove that they are the victims is extensive and wide.

    • Man, it still really, really hurts when I read these comments. It’s bad enough you are cheated on, loose your financial security and home and family life.
      BUT to be cast as the villain and blamed is the cherry on top of the shit sundae chumps are served.

      • Not only was I blamed for his cheating but I was also told by him that we should remain friends because… “How else are you going to win me back if we don’t stay friends?” The really sad thing is that he really, really believed in his stone cold heart that it was my fault he cheated on me! Cheaters really are stupid and fucking delusional…

        • Pret,
          Thank you for reminding me of my ex-boyfriend’s arrogance. Mr. Nice Guy, who virtually everyone thought was very modest, told me when he discarded me the last time that he ‘Didn’t want me pining (for him) by the phone on a Friday night.’ These liars all seem to think that they are God’s gift to the world–or are God.

          • RockStarWife- you need to put that asshole boyfriend of yours in your rear view mirror. He sounds like a classic narc who thinks the world should fall at his feet. People like that are just shallow, insecure creatures. Don’t give him any real estate in your mind girl… kick memories of him and his disordered ass way out of your life. You are worth so much more than that piece of shit.

            • Pret,

              Thank you very much! I am going to keep repeating what you and others here have said until I can convince myself that behavior of ex-boyfriend is NOT OK’ Must stop subscribing to other people’s spackling of his behavior–these people weren’t there with us behind closed doors while he was lying to and degrading me! They just think that what they have seen in their friendship/professional relationship with him is what he is in an intimate relatonship–I also didn’t know the intimate physical/emotional facet of him for the decades of what I thought was our purely platonic friendship. I need to get out of the mindset that getting mistreated without provocation ‘just once every five-six weeks is OK. It was much less frequent than the abuse by my ex-husband but still way too much! Over the decades, he treated some previous people (partners) in shady ways. I need to comprehend and heed the patterns.

              Will try to stay busy to forget about him–cannot count on him to change into the Mr. Nice Guy I for decades (especially during love bombing stage) thought he was.

        • At least he gave you and us something to laugh about. More to file under stupid stuff cheaters say.

    • My boyfriend got the relationship self-help books, some of which I found in his nightstand, highlighted, next to the condoms, which were not used with me. I realize now he got the books to help him improve the relationship with my replacement. He never bothered to talk to me about ways to improve our relationship as he would not say anything was wrong if I asked. Instead, he would stonewall, get defensive, evade.

  • Cheaters and the ow/om have an advantage, over chumps, they will meet where you don’t normally go, do gooders will find any excuse for cheating, but its the character of the person cheating, but its not just about the cheating, its lies, spending money on the other person, they should be spending on you, unfortunately sti”s, even hiv. Chumps deserve better.

    • I told my cheater, oh lets take a nice vacation, we had not taken one in 5 years (*wonder why) and he said pick out the place, I came back with a good list, he said no to everyone of them, said he had been to ALL of those places already (he traveled for business) that should have been a red flag there, but obviously him and BJ queen brothel by the sea (hag) bitch, had already been there with him, obviously. RED FLAG…so he could not possibly take his wife away to the same getaway he got laid in with his howorker ! heavens no! and how would he explain to his whore that he would be away with his wife? Oh heavens me, he would never be able to ruin the whore relationship going on behind my back !

  • The only way to affair proof your marriage is to marry someone who SHOWS you that he/she shares your values and character. Look for the red flags – and if you see them, don’t settle and think your love will change them.

    Mr. Sparkles new GF just signed a mortgage with a man who has 3 failed marriages, 6 kids he walked out on, and debt up to his eyeballs… they’ve been dating for 15 months… anyone feeling like a bet that this new “LOVE” is affair proof?

  • Could the author of this How To article, also add, ‘Don’t sleep in your ‘nonspousal’ co-worker’s bunk on your company’s tour bus. You might be tempted to have sex with your co-worker. Although you work in the entertainment business (which is supposedly more liberal than most businesses), things could go south. If they do, no worries, just find ways to cope.’ When things blew up with the affair partner, my husband just hired a prostitute, after hanging up the phone to wish me a happy anniversary.

  • I cannot even stress how strange this entire concept of “affair proofing” a marriage is to me. My Cheater was NOT perfect. There were plenty of people that were more attractive then he was to me. There were plenty of people more cleaver, more interesting to talk to, had more money, heck – even made me laugh easier.

    With all the other men I have run across in the close to 15 years of my marriage – I NEVER once even thought about cheating. I made my vows to forsake all others. I knew I wasn’t getting a perfect person. I knew there would be ups and downs. I knew that life isn’t always what I wish for, but you make the best of what you have. It was never, ever hard to not cheat. I was never even close to being tempted to cheat.

    The only thing that was needed for me to have an ‘affair proof’ marriage on my end was to get married. And, believe me, if my limp dick cheater pants would have been honest about his inability to NOT cheat – we both could have just married other people. He obviously felt like there was a better fish in the sea, and I could have found a morally upright and sane person with the same outlook on life and same ability to actually be in a relationship and – not cheat.

  • It’s all about lack of character and taking the easy way out. Bottom line- if you’re fucking unhappy then leave. Put your big boys pants on, own your feelings and hit the road. My ex said to me one day that he believed that I was more pissed at him for lying to me than cheating on me… he was right. When I found out about the cheating, it was supposedly already going on for a year and a half- I didn’t know. I already lived that year and a half. It was done. There wasn’t anything I could do. Like a chump, I reflected, owned my part in the relationship and was ready to try to make it work. That was my mistake. It was the continued lying and cheating during the 3 months of supposed reconciliation that really showed me what a piece of shit my “husband” really was. What a sociopath he was by the lengths he went through to lie to me. I’ll never understand why he didn’t just walk away…it was inevitable. Especially after he went of vacation with his mistress. I know he was on cloud nine- so he should have walked away. But according to him, “ I planned on doing this for as long as I could because I never expected you to ever find out” well… jokes on you asshole. Have a nice life… without your child.

      • Yes… with the continued lying and cheating came the devaluing. He had no intention of making the marriage work. He just strung me along and humiliated me even more.

        • Oh, Pret,

          I feel awful for you! Hi deserve a million times better!

          I can relate, too. Although I am definitely not happy about being cheated on and discarded, the lying was more hurtful. I can ‘almost’ understand the desire to screw someone other than one’s partner (although I didn’t think that my ex-boyfriend’s work subordinate looked super special (don’t know her–maybe she has a great personality and is brilliant) and the AP work colleague of my husband was an ordinary looking basket case in the habit of screwing other women’s husbands) and I kept myself in great shape, have long, dark hair, tried to always dress beautifully for my boyfriend, cooked for, physically, enthusiastically spoiled, emotionally supported, worshiped my boyfriend) as some people are tempted by strange. However, I don’t find the adulterers/liars’ lying, insulting and physical and financial abuse necessary or justified at all–just plain cruelty. Horror movies no longer scare me–reality (masks of abusers and liars falling off after years) has been much more terrifying.

          Unfortunately, I cannot seem to escape the cinema that is showing the incredibly long horror movie of life. (I know that my life is not the worst, but I have been traumatized for years. The trauma is affecting my performance, thus making me worry about job security in my new, necessary full-time job. I wish that I could take a few days or weeks off from work that ‘get myself straight,’ but I can’t as I have zero weeks of vacation this year! Also, some of my vertebrae are starting to protrude from my back due to a degenerative condition, making me worry about my ability to take care of my family. When I go to sleep, I dream about exes–sometimes dreams about them reconciling with me (being affectionate), sometimes dreams about them shunning me. I wish that I could wake up to realize that this was all just a nightmare–or never wake up. I feel as though I am trying to cross a ten-million mile long desert without shade, water, food, survival skills, sign of life or rescue. When does the H–l end?

          • Oh rockstar wife, I can totally relate to this. After the whore walked into hospice and I found out her name and did investigations on her, I found out that my husband and her had in common the same type of schooling, although she is NOT anything special looking, I look better, long dark hair, kept in shape, did not drink, or party, etc etc and yet this troll that he worked with was able to convince him that she was so super special. I believe in my heart that he was introduced to her by a nasty fat male friend that wanted to get a lay for his friend (her) and that this male friend had taken a tumble with this slut and now wanted to pawn her off to my husband…, this ho that became the howorker to my husnband. I found out in my investigating that she moved to a rented house nearby, then she was hired by my cheater, then they kept this ‘romance’ going then all of a sudden she was able to afford a mansion. My cheater had an agenda. HE treated me unfairly but I know he treated her like gold….
            After he died this bitch appeared on youtube for her ‘entrepreneur ‘ ‘business’ with a big diamond band on her finger…bragging about ‘I have my own business’ this was 3 weeks after he died…she was this bubbly slut all happy because I believe she made off with trust fund money that he hid with her. The ring was exactly like my band, only bigger
            Naturally, she is over the moon…she has marital assets in her possession after screwing and manipulating my narcissist all these years. I know because money is missing/hidden. I found out she came into a lot of money then closed down her PO box after he died. Shadiness …
            I believe that she played the narcissist because she had definitely screwed married men before…that is why she was positioned in my cheater’s company…she wanted to be around top level execs cuz her Modus operandi is to screw married men for money, jewels, trips, and rub elbows with other married men for her ‘consulting business’ . Meanwhile I was being lied to, betrayed all for this whore that ruined my life. IN fact, it was all because of that beach clam that I am suffering even more, because she was such a SLUT that I had to suffer the aftermath of his and her actions. And hooker gets to make youtube videos with a big smile on her face, never looking one minute like she missed a meal or had stress (no, because the bj queen was getting well fed on romantic getaways and dinners and living a stress free life while my cheater was supporting her) I am pissed and devastated that that whore has our money…and I am killing myself trying to work a stressful job while the two of them were living the dream. Especially her, she lived the dream lifestyle while I worked my ass off and accepting the financial abuse all because I loved him and he always wanted to be in control.
            I don’t know what to do with that pig slut he was screwing. She wreaked havoc on my life and I am the one that suffered the aftermath all because of one big whore that was in it for herself and her children.

              • Rockstarwife, well I know it has nothing to do with looks why they cheat, they just want to ruin you and paint you as a bad person or wife and they tell all that the the homewrecker and she buys it or nor does she care because life is to be lived and be happy and have fun (I realized later it was not all about me working all the time that gave him his freedom) and she was going to have all the fun and did, with my husband and they lived the dream, romantic getaways, etc. It must have been long over with me, I just never knew …;he played the game SO good, I never knew !

    • Yeah, this. Fake reconciliation. Lies to the marriage counselor. Vacations w AP. Cloud 9. I went through all of this and it was absolutely horrendous. If you’re really unhappy, then for the love of god please leave. Don’t have a child with me eight years in, and THEN leave. Don’t string me along for months to make sure the new thing is going to work, and THEN leave. The mother of your son is not a placeholder for your love life FFS. Also, if you really truly believe fate brought the AP to you, then why not go right away? It all comes down to cowardice, fear, lack of character… and utter utter selfishness.

      • I had the same thing happen to me. husband walking on cloud 9 and checking blood pressure, distance and not talking, on edge, vacations with a whore/pretending to be on a work trip (I figured out all this AFTERwards) Probably waiting for whore to work out. But she hung in there. I don’t know when it started but I believe it went on the entire marriage. Yep whore hung in there. She had beachhouse to offer a guy that loves boating and he was a night in shining armour for this whore that had no husband but at the beginning of my marriage her kids were small (but no husband?) I did the math and did my investigations on her ! The timeline would indicate that she was able to rent a beachhouse near our house to fuck my husnband and then continue to see him at work, know all about him, take him for money etc etc. I believe he had a big plan and told her to follow his lead because he was the intellectual meticulous one that did not have a knee jerk reaction about anything so I believe he was really planning with his Whore. Yeah, my question so if she was so great, why oh why did you not leave me for the whore? Because they like wasting your life away why you have no idea, they play you, they live their life how they want, they don’t give a F who they hurt and utter selfishness.

      • I hate the being treated like a placeholder! I’ve been that way too many times for way too many partners.

    • omg a psychic once told me that he thought ‘you’d never find out ‘ about the coworker. So what, he was going to continuing screwing the whore until he was ready to leave? Whore was more than willing to wait cuz who better was that whore going to find?

  • Picked this up from another blog; a response to a wife asking how she can fix her husband’s controlling ways and angry outbursts. I’m fully in the cheating=abuse so I believe the answer is just as applicable to cheating:
    “You also mentioned that you just started couples therapy. I don’t recommend that approach for you right now. In a recent blog, I talked about three reasons why marriage counseling is not helpful. It’s important that you realize that his anger, his negativity and his controlling [substitute cheating, lying, obfuscating etc.] behaviors are not marriage problems.

    They are personal and character problems that are negatively affecting your marriage. In marriage counseling, your husband will attempt to make his anger [cheating] about you. Sadly many counselors who are not trained to recognize abusive and controlling behavior will try to help him by “helping you” try harder so he doesn’t get so mad [cheat].”
    It is still hard for me to grasp why people can understand that it’s not the victim’s fault when it comes to physical abuse, but somehow not true when it comes to sexual acting out/emotional abuse. Thanks to ChumpLady for kicking slush all over that narrative.

    • “It is still hard for me to grasp why people can understand that it’s not the victim’s fault when it comes to physical abuse, but somehow not true when it comes to sexual acting out/emotional abuse. Thanks to ChumpLady for kicking slush all over that narrative.”

      Amen! I bet CL and CN has saved so many people.

  • 11. Don’t go to hotel rooms. If your coworker flirts with you and then suggests a hotel room, don’t go. It means they want to have sex with you. I tell you this, Innocent and Naïve One, because I know you’d never intentionally go to a hotel room with the intention of cheating on your spouse.

    • oooh, I feel a great Friday challenge coming on……

      12. Don’t sit in dark cars for hours with co-workers. Someone’s dick might accidentally get sucked and someone’s tits could mistakenly get felt up. Don’t let that happen to you!

      • I saw an email from my husband asking the whore worker out to lunch, but whore worker was really slick to and in the spirit of keeping their company emails on a spiffy professional façade in case anyone were to see that ; she declined the invitation because and only because ; there was a male coworker joining my husband. Miss blowjob queen did NOT want to go out to lunch with my husband if another co worker would be present because lunch time blow would not be able to materialize. So nice little howorker, politely declined. But gave her scenario in the email of her next move and the times, etc. ….just in case he needed to know ! WHORE!

  • This article is for people who haven’t cheated. It’s pretty useless for the ones who have adopted cheating as a way of life.

  • You should turn this phrase into a meme:

    “So put little safety locks on your cabinets and their genitals just to be safe.”

    Too funny!!

    But seriously…the “invite your spouse to dinner or drinks with the work-spouse” is just too much!! They get off on that! Before I even suspected, and even after I began suspecting, we all ate dinner together on a few nights/week basis. My cheater pants was best friends with his whore’s husband. And I was best friends with the whore. And our kids were best friends, too! They ate that shit up!

    • Cheater met the OW at my job. While I worked a few feet away. I’ll never forget the crestfallen face of my boss when he said “I had no idea you didn’t know that your boyfriend flirts with everyone here.”

      Public vs. private means nothing to cheaters!

  • Even if my cheater would have taken this advice, the outcome would have been the same because, according to her, she and the affair partner are simply “meant to be.”

    Did it matter that we had welcomed a beautiful baby just a few months prior? Nope.

    Or that we had eight years of shared history and a pretty great life? Nope.

    So under the Meant to Be theory there was nothing I could have done to stop it. And also nothing the cheater (or AP) could have done to stop it either, because… The Universe.

    • I often think about this argument. Reading between the lines they are basically saying they aren’t in control of their faculties. Normal people can control their ‘urges’. The disordered think they are entitled to do what ever they want.

      So what about the AP? They think this is ‘meant to be’ but what happens when Mr or Mrs Sparkly pants 2.0 walks into our ex’s lives?

      Our ex’s become their ex’s that’s what. And the cycle starts all over again.

      • Totally. Blaming the universe or whatever is just a lame excuse that absolves them of their horrendous behavior – in their twisted up minds at least. If you refuse to take accountability for your actions you can’t change them, and so the cycle continues. My wife had moments of thinking she and I were meant to be, too. But I guess she thinks she and the AP are **REALLY** Meant to Be.

        • Yeah, Devastated New Mom,
          I was treated as special for a New York minute. too. Stupid me thought it was several months or even years!

          Aren’t these cheaters/liars a lot like dogs who have been let out after many hours cooped up in a crate–run here, pee on this, ‘squirrel!’ Chase this, mailman (maul his pants), ‘car,’ Chase that!

      • my husband needed to have two hernia repairs. The first one was done and he told me that they noticed something they missed’ and had to do the hernia repair over again. I realized the real reason was that he had the fist one, and could not stop plowing the whore, because she obviously required a lot of slamming at her brothel by the sea. And then he was using that sparkle dick sooooo much to please whore worker that he required a second surgery. But he had an elaborate lie about having to have it re-done. I also wondered why he was always at the urologist. I think he was under pressure to keep that sparkle dick working for whore worker.

        • He got a hernia from banging the ho? That is hysterical. Perhaps he needs an occupational therapist to tell him how to have sex without injury.

            • I would say she had a gap like the grand canyon and that is why he had to try extra hard and that’s what gave him the hernia…after that whore wrote him an email before xmas 2015 that she was vomiting…code for being pregnant. Could not say it on the company email…they were playing ‘charades’ on company emails with their little innuendos…bj queen tried hard to get pregnant to snag him better.
              he must have been trying hard to please her cuz she had a beachhouse and his whole fam would benefit by hookers beach brothel ‘playground’

          • Actually mine tore a rotator cuff during a trip with Chickypoo hooker! I can only imagine what it was he was trying to do!

            • My ex told me that he passed a kidney stone after he discarded me and while with my replacement. I bit my tongue–refrained from saying, ‘Serves you right. I hope it hurt like H–l and you go through this many more times!’

  • I would give some credit to the first one on the list. We do need to be communicative with our partners if something is bothering us. They can’t really fix or work on something if they don’t know it’s bothering you. You can’t fix what you don’t acknowledge. It’s better to discuss marital issues with your actual spouse than to discuss it with everyone BUT them.

    However, that said…

    That doesn’t necessarily mean that the cheater will actually listen to you, or put in any effort, or that it will “affair proof” your marriage. Sometimes you can communicate your issues and they don’t care, are resistant, disagree, etc. But even if they cheater still cheats, you can still be secure in the knowledge that at least you tried to communicate. You made a good faith effort. If they try to throw it in your face that the marriage was “unhappy,” you know at least YOU tried to fix that by taking the mature route by being a respectable adult and communicating it, and use that knowledge to armor yourself against such bullshit.

    You can’t control other people, but you can control what you do and if you have a marital issue you can voice it to your spouse.

    • My ex-boyfriend was so afraid to voice complaints directly to me that he told me that he told his friend about his complaint (I ‘cried, wtingvmy jsnds too much to about things (not things that he caused).) His friend supported me, saying RSW is going through a tough divorce. My ex-boyfriend couldn’t or wouldn’t just come out and say it directly to me. I would have understood and immediately apologized as I had about things before. (Although I tried hard to make him happy, I often felt apologetic for inadvertently dragging him down.) I was not happy about hum behaving so cowardly (morally, emotionally, etc.) in so many ways so many times. I wonder if my replacement will get the same guy–and eventually the same type of relationship, dealing with passive-aggression.

      • Sorry for typo–meant ‘cried/wringing my hands too much.’

        Although I don’t miss being lied to, insulted and invalidated at times, I really miss cooking for him, him kissing me when he came home, talking to him at least twice a day, us curling up together, meeting mutual friends and beloved relatives (his and mine) together. I miss spending time at his home, which felt like sanctuary from the hardships of life, which I am sure that I was locked out of soon after he discarded me. Cold turkey (realizing that suddenly I can never touch him, see him, nor even talk to him) feels unbearably brutal. If we ever run into each other, I am sure that he will either treat me coldly or literally run away from me as he has done with his first girlfriend/fiancée years after they split up (mutual consent) and by coincidence ran into each other at a large university event. Pathetically, part of me feels like crawling back to him! I miss his companionship; I miss the good part of him and the faxade. I don’t want anybody else and can’t imagine everything enjoying even a coffee date with somebody else, forget an intimate relationship with someone else.. l I probably would if he hadn’t thrown up multiple barriers.

        I hear all this ‘It gets easier.’ I haven’t felt as though life has gotten easier at all–just harder as denial wanes. I’m scared as I have grieved past partners, especially my first one, for decades after their departure. Obviously, I have not felt mighty in over half a year. Now I am afraid–I hope that I can start concentrating well enough to avoid losing my job!

        • I know hearing “it gets better” feels like a load of crap (believe me, I hated hearing that. I got so frustrated, even openly angry, with people who said that to me. Like “Oh really? WHEN then? WHEN? Can you please put a timeline on this shit? Thanks.”)

          But it does.

          One thing that helped me though, is my best friend saying “Well…you don’t have to want to be with someone else. At least not now. If you don’t want to be with someone else, then that’s how you feel. You can’t force yourself. Don’t think about having another relationship when you’re still mourning the loss of this one. It’s grief. You’re mourning the loss of someone who is still alive, and that hurts.”

          It felt so validating to hear that. A lot of people say “move on, move on, get over someone by getting under someone!” It’s nonsense. You cannot impose timelines on someone else’s grief. I had a very brief relationship this past summer and after that, didn’t let anyone touch me for 5 months. I just didn’t want it. If you don’t want it, that’s ok.

          It’s also normal to miss your partner, regardless of if the turned out to be cheaters. We were with them for a reason, after all. If we met someone and knew, upfront, “Hey, yeah, this dude is a cheater. He’s an abuser too. He’s a dickhole that’s going to make you hate yourself, wanna date him?” We’d be like “NO!!” We all chose our partners for a reason, or a number of reasons, and we loved them. CL has a blog about that too. Realizing your life was a “lie,” and wondering if they cared, and looking at photos of memories and realized “Oh, that was when we did this…they were cheating by then.” But even if they were disingenuous, your feelings weren’t. What you felt was real. And love IS like an addiction. It’s hard to kick those happy chemicals and your brain will do its damndest to keep pumping that supply long after the actual person is gone (damnitt brain…) and it will make you rationalize, and do mental gymnastics and give you every reason in the world why you shouldn’t, CAN’T, move forward. Because it’s dependent on that person for its supply. So it’s no wonder when the idea of someone else is presented, you’re like “NOPE.” (I was thoroughly convinced after my last abuser that I had lost the One and no one else was ever going to want me…so why bother?…We are harder on ourselves than anyone else.)

          However, if you’re losing focus at work, and it is becoming a risk for your job, I would recommend seeking an individual therapist, if you haven’t already. My therapist was invaluable to me in helping me get through the pain. Also, anger. Yes, righteous anger. A lot of advice tells you to “forgive for yourself” but I felt like that was bullshit. Forgiveness is reserved for people I want back in my life. At the time, had my cheater given me even the slightest of phone calls, I would have RUN back to him…but I got angry. I got so very righteously angry instead. And I used that to push me toward meh. That anger got me to the other side. I do not forgive him. And it’s not ruining my life or poisoning my spirit. No. If I wanted him back in my life, I’d forgive him. But I don’t. So there’s no point.

          So get angry! Smash those pedestals! He doesn’t belong on them. But also, if you have not already, please seek some counseling as well. It won’t help at all if you lose your job. Don’t lose your livelihood for someone who walked out cold turkey.

          • Thank you very much for sharing, Kara.

            In a way, I don’t want to date, but I cannot imagine loving someone else and I don’t want casual sex. Pat of me dies want to find another partner as a good partner can make life significantly easier and happier. As I am getting offers from only cons, substance addicts, and guys who are completely incompatible on the rare occasion someone shows interest, I guess that I’ll try to get comfortable being alone and try to stop thinking ‘why does he get all this great romantic/sexual attention in and out of work, when I get ‘blah’ or nothing?’ Will just try to observe the beauty of the world–as a single celibate person. Wish that I had no interest in sec and partnership.

            • Don’t do anything (or anyone) you don’t feel comfortable with. One thing I’ve really worked on is definitely not settling for someone I feel is less than what I want or deserve just so I can have something. Feel like he’s not “winning.” I did that for a while. Tried to make a relationship happen with someone who was thoroughly not interested, unless it meant he was going to get in my pants. Nope. Now I look at him and think “You are too emotionally immature for me.”

              Go with what your gut says. If you meet someone and they seem like they’re a con, they probably are.

              A really good book my therapist recommended is Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment. It’s about different adult attachment styles (secure, anxious, avoidant) and it helps you figure out what your style is, what your partner’s is, and how to spot, early on, people who are going to be wrong for you. Attachment styles were originally thought to be established by our relationships with our parents, but attachment styles can also be affected by your experiences as an adult.

              I like it because it doesn’t tell you that one thing is “bad” or “good.” It tells you this is the way you are, this is how you can understand yourself and through that, understand others, this is how you understand and communicate your needs, etc. etc. It’s really helpful.

  • From reading all these stories and comments, it is clear we weren’t meeting their emotional needs. So what choice did they have other than to cheat – it is imperative their emotional needs are met.

    And don’t forget our emotional needs are irrelevant and in fact, non-existent since our sole need is to provide for them (and the kids when we have time).

    • how do they have emotional needs if they are a narcissist, I thought narcissistic sociopath cannot make an emotional connection and lack empathy so how did he and the whore have a ‘relationship’. Did they talk? I mean his dumb whore must have done all the talking about her lonely hearts club life and the loser husband that she probably cheated on to be with my husband. And my cheater pants husband must have listened to her, mirrored her and became the man of her dreams! But yet he kept all the secrets and never told me anything. Never had even a conversation about anything it seems. He was so secretive because all the while he was living a double life

      • The rule of thumb is quite simple. If you’re a man drink a ‘shut the fuck up smoothie’. Then you’re ‘such a good listner’. If you’re a man she’s into you and you get to stick your dick in a married woman. To some the intimate prize.

        It really is that shallow.

        Sad fuckers.

        • Also, getting a newly married woman away from her new husband was quite a bit of kibble! Think about that!
          The disordered look for ways to take advantage and use people. Predators really.

          • yes let it snow
            I thought about that, what a notch on her used up crotch, to be able to get my gorgeous, exciting, fit, highly successful, fun, highly accomplished husband away from his newlywed wife. Quite a big ego boost, self esteem booster on her part. Considering that I don’t get how she had small children and need a 5 BR mansion and had no man in sight for 15 years ! I figured it had to be her cheating on her husband to be with my husband, OR that son is my husbands kid and he had no choice but to be with her if she had something to hang over his head (besides her tits)…the thoughts swirl round and round. It makes sense though,,,wow would she hand out that long waiting for my husband. That whore was content screwing my husband knowing he was married. She was getting lots of stuff,. She did not have to bother with online dating. I found out she started renting her first beachhouse down the road from our house just 6 short months after we were married. That smart whore really worked at getting him lured into her web. Who does that ? A determined bold whore , that’s who. I hope that whore never ever ever ever has a good day. I cannot get over it, the duping is off the charts !

      • Duped, those are great points.

        What really are their “emotional needs?” – just kibbles that feel good from some fellow narcissist. But real, honest love from a chump based on integrity, hard work and vulnerability? That must be too scary or dull.

        I think familiarity only breeds contempt for narcissists. For a while I fell more in love with my cheater the more life challenges we faced together. But for her, I was just a service provider that she found boring and dull an unattractive. I made every effort to meet her “emotional needs” but it was all rejected (except for the materialistic parts and the service provider parts).

        But yeah, I don’t really think their want a true emotional connection, else they wouldn’t be fucking someone else’s spouse.

        • buddy,
          for my husband I think the allure was she was in the pipeline because he worked with her, they had to work closely together, it’s always somebody they work with. For a narcissist though it could be a stranger on an elevator, the neighbor, the jehohvah’s witness that comes knocking…whatever flavor of the month that they groom to screw. In my case, this big professional whore i’m sure fell madly in love with him because she prob told him everything, he probably listened then mirrored the man she wanted and voila! the man of her dreams,,,then the devaluing of me, the lies and bashing me to her, who knows. I was smart, intelligent, classy, good looking. and he was screwing her with the big beachhouse. He could say they were ‘working together’ if asked, or going golfing together ‘oh this is my work friend’ whatever lies they conjured up, What makes me the most sick is not only the betrayal but that bitch ‘winning’ over my husband and LOVING that she was screwing me over…she must have reveled in the fact that he must have been lying and badmouthing me, that made her feel great !
          The whore must have told herself ‘wow I am this ugly bitch and I have this great guy telling me how great I am etc etc etc and she must have said ‘wow and his dumb bitch wife doesn’t want him, she doesn’t care what he does or where he goes’ little did she know that he lied about his work trips and was secretive..and they got a big thrill together out of that ! So what is the tramp going to do now? Screw another married man? Ruin some other womans life or some other family ? I want to ruin her rep. before she does this to someone else

  • One of my red flags should have been when he consistently rebuffed my attempts to join him for work events. I wanted to be involved in his life, and he wanted to keep his coworker affair a secret.

    • ezerkenegdo
      I cannot believe I fell for ‘my company did away with Christmas parties” yeah, a multi billion dollar company that ‘does not throw Christmas parties” I deserve CHUMP of the century award ! That’s because Slippery clam BJ queen, pole vaulter (sorry, I love to call her names) was there rubbing up to him at the parties…and I was not invited. I showed her pic to someone and they told me she’s ‘mad ugly” I hope my husband liked her big plate face. I get sick knowing that big face and more was even near him.

  • Hello Chump Lady,

    I hope you don’t mind that I am just chiming in again here. I love your blog and your point of view. What you write is generally what I think in the deep recesses of my mind. But, since I write for couples who are genuinely seeking reconciliation, I have to keep my sardonic attitude in. I have been accused of man-bashing many times, so I have had to really dial it back. So, I like to pop into your blog from time to time to have the vicarious experience of reading what I would actually like to say but do not. Thank you for giving me that outlet.

    I will be completely honest– I agree with you. I used to have hope and believe affair-proofing was possible. You know I wrote one of those affair-proofing articles several weeks ago and then a couple of days after it was uploaded, I told the readers I should probably retract it. I had learned something between posting it and making the comment about retracting it that made me realize you just can’t affair proof a marriage unless two people are willing to stick to a set of behaviors all of the time.

    Generally, one person in the couple just refuses to stick to those behaviors– usually the man– because that would mean he would have to give up ego feed. There is no way in the world one person in the couple can affair-proof a marriage. I have realized the concept of one person affair-proofing a marriage is a unicorn. A woman can be the best, most beautiful, most attentive wife, who can cook gourmet food and even have an outrageously gorgeous body, but if the man is not following the same rules of affair-proofing all the time, there is no such thing as affair proofing. One person doing affair-proofing will not prevent the other partner from having an affair.

    I have a real life story (from 20 years ago) about why it’s impossible to affair proof a marriage if the guy is not on board: Once upon a time when I lived in a Midwestern state, I made friends with a woman from Bulgaria. She had given up her job as a would-be doctor to follow her husband to the United States so he could get his PhD. And she worked in the yoghurt shop I would frequent and that’s how I got to know her. Yes, a would-be female doctor, whom I will call Sacha,* gave that up to follow her husband to the U.S. so he could get a PhD and she was stuck working behind the counter at a yoghurt shop that no one ever visited– except for me after I worked out at the gym. She and I became friends and she would invite me over for these homemade meals she would make from scratch. We are talking fresh-baked bread, chicken noodle soup from scratch where she even made the noodles, desserts, side-dishes. She was a very humble, accommodating, sweet and shy woman, but we became best buds while I lived in that state. Now let me tell you what she and her husband looked like. Her husband looked like Fred Flintstone if Fred were a real guy. Pot belly and similar attitude. On the other hand, she looked like a model. She did not have to do anything to look like a model because of those darn Eastern European genetics: tall, thin, legs up to her neck, impossibly thick, long hair, perfect bone structure and aqua eyes. She had a closet full of designer European clothes too and when I had a date with a new guy, she would lend me her digs and do my make up and send me out the door with her (real) sable coat. (No I don’t like fur or buy real fur, but she insisted.) What I am describing is a real sweetheart of a woman who was endlessly kind and generous and happened to look like she walked off the cover of a magazine. And she was completely devoted to her husband and willing to put aside her needs for his. (A chump in the making.) Why all that description of her? Well, there is a reason for the detailed description so that you can understand the outrageousness of the situation I am about to describe.

    One day, her husband came home when she had invited me to one of her homemade lunches. We were sitting at the table just talking about girl stuff and the recent guys (losers) I had been dating. (I had not yet met the man that made me an enormous chump and who temporarily broke my spirit.) So, her husband looked me right in the face and started to talk about his wife as if she was not at the table only 2 feet away from him. (How RUDE.) He said, “You know what, Sarah? Sacha* is very beautiful. She is a wonderful wife. She is wonderful cook. But, let me tell you about men. Even though Sacha* is beautiful, men like variety. I would have sex with a short, obese woman if the opportunity presented itself. It is not because she is more beautiful than Sacha, quite the contrary. It is simply because she is DIFFERENT and men like different above all else.” Sacha hid behind her napkin holding back tears and I tried to engage him in a feminist debate and he just rolled his eyes. He told me to accept this is the nature of men and that I should not expect more. I hate that man this day. The last time I checked, they were still married. I wonder if she has been made a Chump yet. The probability is high– that is if he found someone desperate enough to sleep with him. I cannot even begin to imagine what she saw in him. She could have gotten anyone she wanted because she was the perfect woman (according to most men.)

    Honestly, I believe more men have that kind of entitlement than they would ever admit. I believe some men are so shallow that they would risk everything for a meaningless fling with a person they picked up from the gutter– just because she is DIFFERENT. And it doesn’t matter if ‘different’ has an STD. It doesn’t matter if ‘different’ forgot to take her birth control. It doesn’t matter if ‘different’ is anything really. She just has to be different– and that according to the Fred Flintstone look alike is reason enough for a man to launch into an affair.

    And I can hear a man say (after being caught) to his wife: “Hey Chump, she’s different. Why would you expect me to deprive myself of the happiness of ‘different’? You are a such a selfish and controlling Chump and you should be lucky I stay with you and your controlling personality.” (Add in the gaslighting for extra effect so that the Chump will feel like she is actually losing her mind.)

    I just had to tell that story.

    Again, I love, love, love your blog and especially your sense of humor. You manage to make a heart-breaking topic funny in a sarcastic and gallows’s humor kind of way and I admire that. If we don’t laugh, we will certainly cry.

    Thank you for the laughs and endlessly witty observations,

    Sarah P.

    • Thank you for sharing your stories, and I agree wholeheartedly with you, but I do think you underestimate just how many women act the same as the men you discuss, even if they don’t verbally mansplain it so arrogantly.

  • Again adultery is portrayed as a relationship problem with relationship “fixes”. The amount of lying, deception, financial strategizing, cold bloodedness that goes into cheating shows that it’s a form of abuse. Would someone write a book or article about how to “Wife Beater Proof Your Marriage”. Didn’t think so.

    • It’s interesting that you say that. Our marriage counselor said after the first few minutes, “this is not a marriage problem it’s an individual problem“. They intentionally drag us into their very deep-seated problems, they have had for quite some time hoping that it will be resolved as a relationship issue, or that they can hide again for awhile. Found out after the MC that his last marriage ended the same way. Apparently he never resolved his issues, but instead involved another person’s life! The common denominator is them!
      Bunch of abusers, users and losers.

    • It is pure abuse. But the abuser insist its not and most people don’t want to hear it or simply can’t fathom it. I was accused of being the abusive one at first by him and his family!!! But then i started naming all the specific ways he had abused me for years. And i just kept talking about it. I don’t recommend this is something you do but i made it clear that i was not going to accept even more abuse by being named an abuser.

  • I’m probably old-fashioned in believing that a man who cheats on me is not worth my time or my love. I say GOODBYE sucker! I may love him, but he does NOT love me. Plenty of other (good!) men out there!

    If I need to affair proof my marriage it already shows that I don’t trust him. Why be with a man I don’t trust? I want a man where affair-proofing is not needed. Good men exist. Go find one.

    People who are afraid to leave a relationship usually have other issues. Like fear. Well I say: Be Strong! Anything is better than living with a cheater. Once you know you can handle things on your own (no one needs a man for that) you’ll be more confident and the next man will be so lucky with the new and improved and happy and confident you.

    You will never find that good man if you stay with a cheater! Don’t waste your life away.

    Remember: Don’t need a man who doesn’t need you. You’re so much better than that.

    • Patricia what happens when you have perused the online dating to see what ‘men’ are out there now that the cheater is gone, only to discover that they are all losers? and they have no college education? or they have never been married. I am sorry but maybe this is wrong but every time I see a divorced man on there I cannot help but thinking ‘yeah, you loser/dick, you probably cheated on your wife or got thrown out for being a wife beater so that’s why you are divorced” sorry, but I don’t trust any of them.

      • As a male chump this is the fear that I have of women. I got burned by a cheater wife and now other women will wrongfully judge me with assumptions.

        I hope for both of us that we are wrong and that they are some good people out there.

        • Zell,
          yes the cheaters leave us destroyed and damaged in every way. It’s hard to trust. The way I see it, cheaters have the best life because the whore takes all, the wife gets ruined. The other woman knows what she’s after could give a f about the wife. it’s all about them.
          I am sorry that people do judge. I am sure there are exceptions such as what happened to you. Sorry for what you went through ! I hope there are good people out there. It gets harder the older we get. I feel like I was asleep at the wheel little did I know I was being conned.

    • I have pondered about this catch-22:

      If you are cheated on and attempt reconciliation, then by definition you are less attractive since you are settling for a cheater, settling for staying with an abusive person, settling for less than you are worth.

      Thus if the cheater cheated on you before, then given you are now less attractive, that increases the odds that they will cheat on you again.

      So the only way to reconcile with a cheater is to be more attractive and the way to be more attractive is to value yourself and to divorce the cheater.

  • Oh where were you 15 years ago when Narcula let me see his long time EA. There more and PA’s as well. He just had an AP of choice he wanted me to focus on so I wouldn’t know about the local bimbos.

    Oh did I dance. Oh did I wiggle and swish and dip to try to get help for that cheating turd. I did all the wrong things. Had no idea there was any other way. I bought all the “save your marriage” books, online and in paperback. Even subscribed to and listened avidly to “Save the Marriage” podcasts. And yes, my chumpy self highlighted and handed the books to the cheater and made cd’s for him to listen to in the car. He threw the books out the window, I found out later, and dumped the cd’s in the trash.

    So now I’m trying to figure out how to bundle the books to sell on ebay. Thinking the description should read: “great for a good laugh” or “new and improved fitness program called the pick me dance, guaranteed to make you sweat, cry, loose sleep and eat less so wow will you lose weight”. Figure I can use the money to help pay for my divorce.

  • The NX told me he just wasn’t very interested in sex. He would push me away from him when I tried to obtain a kiss and a cuddle. Actually asked me if I was “soliciting affection from him.” Then he would complain that I never initiated sex with him. Then came the accusations that I was having affairs. I danced harder and harder trying to figure out the happy medium of trying to be a non-pushy wife that needed to figure out how to ask for affection without asking for affection.

    Then I found out about the OW.

    To this day (2 years out from leaving him and 1 year from divorce) he refuses to admit his affairs, lies and online porn. But he’s just not that into sex……

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