Stay in Touch

Check out CL's Book

Trickle Truth Is Neither Trickle Nor Truth

Add to the list of Reconciliation Industrial Complex euphemisms I despise — “trickle truth.”

I’ve ranted about “wayward” before and the “fog,” but it only recently occurred to me that “trickle truth” is equally moronic… or Orwellian. (Moronically Orwellian? Deviously Orwellian? Anyway…)

“Trickle truth” is like “truthiness,” the term comedian Stephen Colbert coined for the rebranding of lies, omissions, and bullshit.

What is trickle truth? Well, if you’ve spent any time on reconciliation boards, you’ve read about it. The narrative usually goes like this:

“I found a receipt in Elmore’s pocket for a hotel stay. At first he denied he’d ever been to that hotel. When confronted, he said ‘Oh, I was there for a conference.’ Alone? Yes. But I’d also found a dinner for two receipt. Who spends $176 by themselves at Outback Steakhouse? Okay, he was with a ‘friend’. She later came to his room because hers didn’t have a Gideon Bible and his did. And she needed help with her Bible verses because she always says her prayers at night before bed.

I felt uneasy. But who was I to question a good man helping a woman out with Psalms? Then I checked the cell phone bill. I guess she needed help with Proverbs, Corinthians, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John too because there were thousands of text messages between them. He admitted they’d been talking, but it wasn’t what I thought! They were just friends!

I think he’s having an affair. Perhaps it’s only emotional at this point, but I don’t know. Clearly, he’s paralyzed with shame about it, so he’s trickle truth-ing me. Only admitting to the things I have evidence of. It’s driving me CRAZY. I know this is a very difficult time for him, and my questions trigger self-loathing in him, so he can’t spit it all out. But I want to know what happened! I’ve read here that trickle truth goes on for months and I should just be patient while he comes out of the fog. This is killing me!”

Let’s call trickle truth what it is — continued lies by omission.

Really at best trickle truth is leaving out the damning crap you haven’t discovered yet. It’s also minimization (she’s just a friend!) and  gaslighting (I wasn’t at the hotel!) — and chumps spackle the entire thing into a phenomena they call “trickle truth.”

No — trickle truth is just a continuation of cheater think and entitlement. They enjoy the power of their secrets. They feel entitled to keep the truth from you. They feel entitled to misrepresent their affairs and lead you to believe it’s harmless and you’ve misunderstood them. If you want to get ANYTHING off this cheater, you’re going to have to work for it! And then they’ll deny and soft pedal what you found.

They aren’t “trickling” the truth in dribs and drabs. They’re throwing you off their scent. It isn’t shame that makes them withhold information — it’s wanting you to get the fuck off their backs so they can have more cake.

There’s no truth in trickle truth at all, except for the truth YOU discovered.

Truth doesn’t trickle. It’s told. Anything else is just more mindfuckery.

***

This one seemed timely. Early morning today.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • One of my most memorable TT’s.
    You said you were staying at a Motel 6 (that alone is unlikely – why so stupid?).
    There are 3 Motel 6’s in the area you were staying..
    Which one were you at?

    Him: Tongue Tied…’The other one'”.

    OR

    Him: Why did you try to reach me at my hotel last night?
    Me: I couldn’t get an answer on your phone.
    And, funny that you weren’t in your room at 12:30 am.
    Him: Why would you check up on me? I was out late on business.

    I have so many of these and I don’t know if they are TT, or more gaslighting. It seems to cross lines back and forth. X did not admit to anything until I caught him red-handed and then, I didn’t want to know any of his ‘truths’ anymore.

    And, by then, he wanted to spill it all.
    Get rid of the guilt.
    I refused to listen to any of it.

    Trickle Truth is just more cheating with the truth.

    • Good evening everyone from Australia! About to go to bed really early for my bakers hours; however I just have to put this on paper. Limp Dick, or in the best tradition of trickle truth has rewritten or rather; sanitised his history! His affair with Pond Scum had nothing to do with our 30 year marriage. This affair was just the perfect storm?! What did he say? Perfect fuck up? Apparently I am so awful; he was always going to divorce me! Ten years ago, now; it was always going to happen! Spare me the lies, the trickle of untruths, the gaslighting., the omissions! I’m done – this is no way to live a life! Trickle truths are death by a thousand little knife wounds. On their own, they heal. Together they are fatal! Wise up folks, let’s put these felons out of our lives!

      • “Trickle truths are death by a thousand knife wounds.”

        Absolutely! For me, the lies by omission went on for a year as he trickle-truthed his way through couple’s therapy. He would only answer the specific questions I asked, so I was constantly having to think of every possible angle he might have so that I could ask all the right questions to get more thorough answers. Drove me nuts. The last straw was a missed 5 am call from her on his phone, which he had returned and tried to brush off as a butt dial. It took several days for bits of truth to trickle out, and at the end I left him. The most I’ve gotten from him since is that there is “a lot he never told me.” Ya think?

        • Oh yes. i remember that shit.. .. always trying to think of the “right” questions to ask because if something else came up later, he would tell me “Well, you did not ask THAT”.. .. ugh. it was soul draining.. .. .. i spent more time trying to figure out what the fuck he was doing then him just being a honest, responsible, loving adult. i am sure it was hard for him too (*poor widdle sad sausage) having to stay on his toes and come up with new lies on the spot like that… you know, instead of just telling THE TRUTH!!!!

          i remember one time, i had to tell specifically NOT to drive the other car around because we did not have it insured or tagged. it was a car he was working on for himself (he had a vehicle fetish but none of his vehicles every worked right). he had been driving it around town. the first time i ‘caught’ him, his excuse was he was just test driving it to make sure whatever he fixed made it run right. but then he kept driving it around. i told him he needed to get it licensed and insured because if he got pulled over the tickets would kill us. we were making very little money . .. .. if i remember right, i think i was the only one working. he was not working at the time (probably got fired).. . anyhow, when he kept driving it i blew up and yelled at him NOT TO DRIVE that car since it was insured and licensed.. .. . give a week, i come home early and he is pulling up in the other TRUCK we had. i just got out and looked at him as he got out of the truck. so he tells me “you never said i couldnt drive the truck. you just said not to drive the CAR”… .. . Seriously!!! the truck was not insured either at that time.. .. . fucking stupid ass

          so glad i dont have to deal with that trickle truth, gaslighting, stone walling, projecting, flat out lies and stealing and stupid anymore.. .. Life is super good on the other side.

        • This is very similar to mine….left a hotel receipt (6 months after the event!) in my house… denied ie gave me some trickle truth of it as he hotel but he didn’t stay there…just coffee…but couldn’t remember what he spoke about… She however, told me they’d caught up for coffee as she was in Brisbane for her sons 18th birthday… I quizzed my now ex to get what they spoke about and nothing… yet I still didn’t have 100% proof so he lies, the kids crying ie telling me what daddy has been saying (ie he was sorry, he loved me, mummy was cranky at him and he was sorry, he’d help out around the house more…the guilt of “I shouldn’t be alone for Father’s Day/my birthday” etc etc etc) made me stick around for another 16months until he finally admitted the truth he had sex with her… that was me done… it actually hurt more than I realised…but now I’m the bitch… he can’t “face speaking to me” because he is “so, SOOOOO” upset (yes that is sarcasm!)

          It just keeps on…

        • My ex tried the “I will answer questions you ask” but wouldn’t engage in open-ended conversation. I refused to play that game.

      • Yep. The affair had nothing to do with my marriage either. He had given up on me years ago… I was apparently so awful that he could never talk to me and had to go underground with an affair to soothe him from all the awfulness. Three years of leading a double life. And… he only started breaking up when she gave him an ultimatum: Me or her. He chose her.

        And then fully intended for me to never find out that the OW even existed.
        I am so glad I did not buy the BS then and snooped in all his social media accounts.

        • Add me too here. He apparently was “done” with me in the second year of our 12-yr mirage (somebody said it right yesterday!) because I went ahead with a visit of my family in my home country. My 9-day trip (which he had actively encouraged from the beginning and then started sulking) made him realize that “I didn’t care for him” and he then organized a beach randez-vous with a skunk during my absence and then revived his relationship with his married ex-gf from another country. They continued their on and off affair meeting here and there during “business trips” for the next 12 years. He was so talented at trickle truthing and keeping me in a constant emergency mode, and I trusted I married a man with integrity, so it took me 12 years to discover that marriage was a lie from the beginning.

          I was “the best wife he could wish for” and that’s why he did not initiate a divorce with me earlier. But he has “always been unhappy because I was not able to connect with him emotionally because we wanted different things from life”. Whatever. I learned here it’s called cake.

          Bye, cheater.

          • Nothing to do with trickle truth I guess but one time I was going home to England to see my 90-something year old mom who lived with my sister. I put my suitcase on the bed to pack and he had placed a packet of condoms under my pillow because I was “obviously going home to fuck around”. I guess he took his own behaviour for a generality!

            • Attie, about 2 months after D-Day while I was still high on hopium, I had a business trip to Paris. A few weeks later he attempted to take the focus off himself as I was finding more and more evidence about his previous long-lasting “business trips” to London where his half-soul shmoopie was apparently doing her phd and he was always busy to answer my calls during his business trips. So he started accusing me of purposefully making the work trip to Paris to reunite with my ex-boyfriend. I had never been to Paris before, and I had no ex-bf living in France, but now I get it: projection.

    • SheChump, I found he was getting off on telling the details once caught. There was a sadistic pleasure he took in his need to share.

      It wasn’t delivered with remorse. He got off on it. He gleefully said you’ll never believe how we met. I walked away. These are sick individuals.

      • Mine told me he met her at a wedding, then he told me he picked her out of a line up at the brothel because she had big tits (hate that word) like me – he actually thought that would make me feel better . To this day he taunts me with ‘you don’t even know where I met her’

      • Doingme – The GLEE – yes, that’s the word, when he started revealing some details of ‘his true love affair’. I only wanted to know when it started and he lied about that. I already knew she had moved into my home, bedroom and kitchen (and tried landscaping my yard) when I was out of town, since he told me voluntarily all about it, so what other details did I need?

        I found a really long hair in my pool that kept dashing around while I was doing laps and I couldn’t catch it. I got out, called him in, and told him to get the fucking thing out. He used a pole and had a hard time also, and then started smirking and even coughed out a little laugh when he finally caught it. Of course, it was hers. Just ugh. That fucking SMIRK!

        • The smirk drove me nuts. I used to look at him and think “you inadequate, thick, ugly Twat – what do you have to smirk about?” But I got the self-satisfied smirk too.

      • Glee is the right word. When he finally “confessed” (via email) during wreckonciliation, there were certain unnecessarily hurtful details that puzzled me at the time. For example, he admitted that the affair had started months before he’d originally stated, and that during the time we’d spent together over those holidays, he’d been “thinking of her.” I guess just to be sure that the idea of him pining for and fantasizing about someone else while Christmassing it up with me was firmly planted in my mind.

        Also, in that confession he admitted to going on vacation with her after DDay, when we were supposedly “working on things.” Okay fine, but then he had to add “It was actually nice to get away for a while.” (FYI, during that time I was on the floor, not sleeping or eating, but ya know it’s great to realize that he enjoyed a refreshing little tropical getaway with that crazy-eyed slag.)

    • Shechump,
      Exactly.
      Mine said very little.
      One thing he did tell me that always bugs my ass, is that he had a room in a house with a very elderly lady…told me not to call him at night as that would disturb her…said she was hard of hearing….OMG, sounds like stand up comedy.
      I am not allowed ( orders by my eldest daughter) to ever ever call myself stupid, BUT, I was so naive, I was so “s p a c l y” ( it is so hard not to say STUPID)!
      Of course we all know he was in the arms of ow whoever the fuck she was and wherever the fuck she lived.
      No, not once did I ever wake that fiction old lady up. There were many times when I could have used hearing his voice reassure me or have him share a thought about our child or a house or something happening problem, but no, peacekeeper kept the home fires burning. I took care of everything while he was “away”
      The thing is our child and I missed him, we welcomed him back home with hugs and kisses ( had he even kissed us good bye, I forget, don’t think so).
      AND, while he was away, I slept alone. He didn’t!

      To me even trickle truths =lies.

    • Odd, I was told by my cheating husband that Motel 6 lets you stay with CASH, which is why it’s a cheater’s favorite go-to.

      Fascinating.

  • “I needed to walk her home, she was so drunk.”

    So was he. Drunk enough to sleep with her apparently.

    “I just stayed because it was so far from home.”

    It was a mile away. Uber could’ve taken care of that.

    “We only made out, we work together. She was giving me SIGNS!”

    Oh, the ubiquitous signs. She touched his arm, she LOOKED at him.

    The rage channel switched on after this. He couldn’t understand why I was so calm. (I have a way of being really scary and calm in the face of adversity.)

    Trickle truth-this is probably in the dictionary for it…

    • You call that a hickey. I don’t see anything! Only you can see it and you will have to find the woman and prove that I was with her. Rage, rage, rage.
      Some liars/cheaters/abusers cannot even trickle-truth. I look back at my life and wonder how I could have been so stupid to put up with it for so long.
      On my way to recovery……a whole year and a half of freedom!

      • “I look back at my life and wonder how I could have been so stupid…” ME every day now. Sadly, this Christmas Eve will be 38 years since we got engaged. Even his method of giving me the ring was emotionally abusive, and I actually made payments on the ring (as he purchased it on account). OMG Why did I believe that I deserved so little?

        • Oh God…my first cheater (engaged not married) called to tell me he was in the water, a buoy snapped and hit him in the neck. He had a hematoma and could have died! Picked him up at the airport and I said that looks like a huge hickey…..he became so annoyed because you know he almost died and I was making fun. The “buoy” ended up pregnant and came to the states to stake her claim. Can’t believe I actually believed that lie…but I didn’t even suspect at the time.

          • KB22,
            OMG,
            That is right up there with another Chump’s previous archive post about her cheater getting hit in the head head with a skateboard while in a public washroom.
            Are there any stand up comics lurking?
            There is so much material here.

            Is this Friday, CL?

          • KB22, I’m not laughing at you I’m (hopefully) laughing with you. Do you think he meant he got hit by an inflatable?

          • My cheater had a Monday off when he knew I would be in school. He called me to tell me he was injured on a bike ride in a city where he never went. Turns out his kneecap was broken. A doctor once told me that kneecaps dont get broken even in bad car wrecks.

            I think a guy found my cheater fing his woman and hit his kneecap with a baseball bat.

            but I didnt figure that out until after he was dead. In the moment, I didnt suspect a thing

        • NotMyFault,
          I’m so glad to hear that I’m not the only one whose engagement was abusive. Mine thought he was cute, wrapped a carrot to put under the tree. Then saud, “You saud you wanted a carrot.” I had no idea WTF he was talking about. Then he brought out the ring. Never asked if I’d marry him, but idiotic me – I assumed. Then that night at work, stage manager announced over backstage intercom that the best Christmas gift this year went to Boss Hogg for his engagement ring. Hogg went ballistic, “I never asked you!” Me: wtf…? Later, I explained that since it wasn’t an engagement ring, that if we broke up I’d be under no obligation to return it since it was just a “gift.” Not long after came the lame proposal.
          Ugh.
          I settled for so little. The red flags were so big, and I squeezed my eyes tightly.

        • Same Christmas Eve engagement 25 yrs ago but thankfully out of my life for 3 yrs
          He made the very special announcement of his new #youngenoughtobeyourdaughter girlfriend on -you guessed it- Christmas Eve. He started his email “you may find this unpalatable but….” NO SHIT SHERLOCK!!!
          The fact that he had been cheating on me with her he denied on the lives of his children
          What a great guy
          Trickle truth ? More like great big fat in your face LIAR

    • “She was giving me SIGNS!”

      And well, we belong to the Clan of the Cave Bear, where if someone gives the mating signal, the other person has no choice but to comply. What’s a guy to do?

    • “I had to drive her home…she was so drunk”

      “I had to sleep with her bc you found us”

      “It was our first time, I’ve NEVER cheated on you”

      Ha! There is so much more too!

  • Boy does this sound familiar! He fed me trickle truths for 3 months till I hacked into his stuff and got concrete evidence. The whole time he had the nerve to say what a horrible wife I was for not trusting him, that he was above reproach in this matter, “I would never cheat” and our counselor backed him up on it. He said, “your husband wouldn’t risk his job to have an affair with a coworker.” Bullshit! After I found out the truth I rubbed it in the counselor’s face and never went back there.

    They will never fess up. You have to hunt for the truth.

        • I simply got “I’ve been seeing someone else” which turned out to be code for a full blown 3 year affair with fucking in our marriage bed, fucking in hotels, fucking in her work’s car park & fucking in the house they had secretly set up & furnished using my money.

          • Oh and the secret house was a contingency plan if they failed to force me out of the family home. That blew up in their faces as I kept the family home and the kids 🙂

            • Oh David – that is so awful to realize after you look back. I was also being forced out of my marital home because of his nastiness. I seriously thought, shit, I’d be happier in a an apartment than this place. And, by God, it almost worked. One day he came home and said he found some houses I could move into…crappy houses…and, I was dumbstruck. We never really talked about that option! I wasn’t serious in looking for a new place…I was threatening because of his horrible disrespect towards me. Looking back now, I see they were trying to get me to leave so she could move in to my home (we built from scratch). I know she absolutely wanted my life. Damn, those were ugly times.

      • Yep same with mine. Said he would go to his grave with all his secrets. Went to OW house when I found her resume on our computer. Oh he was just helping her find a job. Found them in bed and then I started to beat her up, not him!!! I am so stupid, stayed with him another 16 years. What the fuck. Finally got an std from him and it woke me up to what kind of asshole he really is. Finally free of his lies and charm, I am pretty sure he had affairs for the whole 25 years I was with him, but I will never know. Good riddance!!!

      • our ‘counselor’ said that the house was his too, so he had the right to bring her in while I was at work. This was followed by the verbal diarrhea of “the right to happiness it enshrined in the American constitution and if the affair makes him happy by trying to stop him you are practically abusing him”. When I asked her about my right not to be continuously lied to and financially abused in my own home she stared at me with a face like a dead cod.

  • Cheaters like having power over you, the ow/om believes their crap, so why don’t you. Its sad but I don’t think you will ever get the truth. That shows some lack of respect doesn’t it.

    • I’m fairly certain the Dickhead was cheating the whole marriage. Maybe not continuously but enough to make me suspect. Now that we are divorced, I don’t even want to know.He can take his horrible life to the grave.

      • I’m with MissBailey: “I’m fairly certain the Dickhead was cheating the whole marriage. Maybe not continuously but enough to make me suspect. Now that we are divorced, I don’t even want to know.”

        This is the beauty and peace of meh: he sucks, is incompatible with me, and no good comes from thinking about him or additional details.

  • “You look tan. It’s December. Have you gone to a tanning bed recently?”
    “No I haven’t been to the tanning bed ….. oh you found it in our checking account. I went last week but you asked if I’d been lately.”

    What 32 year old straight married man goes to a tanning bed?
    Answer: one who is keeping up with his PlentyofFish profile, trolling for some strange.

    • “I went last week but you asked if I’d been lately.”
      I’m sorry – but even though I don’t know this jackass I want to punch him in the face for that comment.

      • Same, these cheaters do need a punch to the face. Unless I already knew the answer I couldn’t ask mine a question specific enough to actually get the truth. He always said he didn’t lie, he just didn’t tell the truth?!?! I did call out what looked like hickies over the years, he always said that they weren’t hickies. When I brought it up after the latest DDays, he said “those were love bites, not hickies”. Gahhhh

      • Mine said I’m not talking to her atm . I later realized it meant just that . 5 mins later yeah he was talking to her .

    • Sounds like excuse lines from Firefucker, only I inquired about his sudden need for full male pubic waxing.

    • I asked the same question to Firefucker and was told it was cause his back acne was out of control. My follow up as to how his new full pubic wax was supposed to help with that situation, was too much for his delicate constitution.

      Cue rage and self pity cycle in 3…2…1…

      • Ha ha ha!!! Mine wants to go get his man bits waxed too!!! OMG! What is wrong with them?? He also looked into injections to get bigger, harder man junk. I don’t think that’s your problem it’s getting caught screwing hookers. No shot is going to cure that!!!

    • That’s funny. I asked the same question this week.(STBX won’t move out)…have you been tanning? Why do you ask that? Uh, because you’re dark and have white pressure marks on your shoulder blades and it’s the middle of December. Well I don’t know. I must have then.
      Just being cheeky asses. They honestly think they are so smart by giving half answers and evading the question. It only makes them look dumber then they already are.
      On the flip side. Not that I really care what the answer is I just want to know what gem he will come up with. Right now he’s creating chaos like yesterdays post. Quitting his job, selling a lot of his belongings, going to spas, massages, doctors, creating ailments etc. So exhausting. Can’t wait until after the holidays when I can lawyer up and get his ass out. Right now I’m just gathering info to do so. All this “therapy” hopefully will be useful to show mental instability and back my fear he needs to be away from my kids and I. Trick truth all you want. Trickle Dick is what he is!!

      • YourLoss,
        The second you lawyer up and serve him papers, that selling off of marital assets becomes illegal. At least, that’s my understanding. Godesspeed you to your attorney! The cancerous wart needs to be excised quickly. I wish you well.

      • “Well I don’t know. I must have then.” What is he, 12? That’s the lame kind of excuse a preteen would use.

  • What we consider trickle truth is a continuation of their power. For them it gets them off, like a cat playing with a scared mouse: the cat lets the mouse think it’s got away and then pounces and bites again and again. Marriage police is like being a forensic accountant.

    I did not get truth, or trickle truth. I got white hot rage and stonewalling. But what I uncovered was sufficient. I had waited, laid low for a year. Copied important documents. He didn’t think I deserved any respect. I filed. He figured it out on Mother’s Day. That marked the end of communication. I think I’m thankful that I never was on any RIC boards. I found CL very early and never strayed.

      • I found the Berchts (“My husband’s affair was the best thing that happened to my marriage”) , and her Stepford wife gaze was enough to convince me that their line o’ bullshit wasn’t going to fly.

        • They are the first people who come to my mind every time I think about trickle truths! It has always stuck with me, her saying his actual affair wasn’t the worst hurt for her, but the “drips of truth” he dropped as time went on, because that, “put salt in the wound.”

          You have to think how much different her life would be if she hadn’t normalized his selfish abuse and rationalized his affair as her being a good wife.

          • I found Chump Lady on D-Day. I set up my laptop, sobbing uncontrollably, and googled, “What do you do when your husband cheats on you?” and up popped CL and CN. My only regret is that I didn’t google this years ago. I was deceived and gaslighted on so many levels for so many years. Finding this website would have helped me get up the nerve to go get the evidence I needed to cut his ass loose and move on with a cheater-free life a long time ago. Despite that constant refrain of “That’s an invasion of my privacy!” and “That’s my business not yours!” and “What you need to know, I will tell you” and “What is wrong with you that you don’t trust me? I think you need professional help!”

  • After receiving a message from the OW letting me know she had been having an affair with my husband I asked my cheater and he denied it. I approached him again with my minister and he denied it again. Finally he admitted two weeks after that he had sex but only the once! The woman had “taken advantage of him” poor darling. I ended up finding out more he liked to keep letters and other little trophy reminders. We are in double figures of women who exploited his kindness. 30 years of marriage and it appears he was unfaithful off and on for most of it. He’s in the rear vision mirror now with his children not keen on seeing him again. The trickle truth was how he operated post DDay was like getting blood out of a stone. He would speak in crazy riddles it was maddening. I recorded a lot of it I’ve occasionally listened to it when I’ve felt my resolve weaken, it really crazy stuff. I ended up in a psychiatric ward, was suicidal I had breast cancer as well. Anyways I’m a lot stronger now thanks to God, good friends, Chump Lady and CN.

  • THIS is my ex exactly. Smdh.

    Nothing feels better when you let go and stop trying to find the truth. “Is this relationship acceptable TO YOU?” That mantra saved my life. Real truth? Partial truth? All of this just sucks. See ya later. Yeah, being alone can be hard but not as hard as this shit.

  • Anyone who is just starting out dealing with this I would say to trust your gut. Think of the worst possible thing…..and that is probably what they are doing. Get whatever info you can but only so that you can get a lawyer and use it against them. Don’t suffer through the information, instead focus on being strategic. The sooner you accept that you are married to a horrible person the easier it will be for you as you plod through the divorce process.

    • “Think of the worst possible thing…” and they probably did so much worse, things that you could NEVER think of. Like cruising Craigslist M4M and hooking up with random guys for unprotected sex. Like “marrying” the OW. Like bringing strangers into our house and bed for more unprotected sex (and not bothering to change the sheets). Like trying to have sex with your APs in your adult child’s home while they are out of town (really, really gross, which bed was he going to use? Our son’s? Our grandchildren’s? Truly depraved.). Like making sexual advances to your spouse’s siblings.
      No, a normal person could never think of the myriad of ways that cheaters cheat and betray everyone in their lives.

      • Ditto on the “think the worst” and know that it’s probably that and more.

        Even in light of so much that I have learned. Just when I think there isn’t more, some other detail reveals itself. So I’m away of an emotional affair that he tried to make physical (have spoken to this woman myself to get at the truth as he claimed they were only friends). The current OW he had a full-blown affair with for about the last 19 months of a marriage and he is still with (albeit still in double-life mode as he doesn’t breathe a word to his family or our kids) one year later. There is also one confirmed one-night stand just before last Christmas as we was wrapping things up with me and running off to be with the OW just in time to ring in the new year together. There was also a few years of regular porn watching.

        I’m going to assume (and I’m pretty sure I’m right on this) that there were other one night stands, a number of almost hook-ups at bars, definitely the use of ED medication.

        Well, he’s her problem now. Bahaha!

    • Haha it is also my fault because I am so awful too! Apparently women over fifty are fucked! Why put up with that when you can buy a younger better version for $125 an hour & they really, really like you! Yep mine told me his whore would do him for free she liked him that much, bank statement says otherwise , apparently I would drive any man to a brothel, you are only as good as the woman under you – so he says

      • These delusional asses! Yes, I’m sure the $800 an hour fetish prostitute my ex was seeing thought he was super special too. How can a man think that someone he has to pay (money in the hand before they do anything) really likes them? The mental gymnastics that takes is amazing. Also, all these prostitutes are really good girls who just want money for school. It’s amazing the ridiculous things they will believe about the women involved in sex work, but when I asked him if he had considered that some of these women might be: under-aged, trafficked, drug addicted, or diseased–he looked at me like I was insane. What color is the sky in their fucking world, I wonder.

        • Joni
          Same with my h
          Prostitution? Sex trafficking? Nah…
          He was helping them, u know – shoulder to cry on, money after taking them for dinner, long discussions… and good fuck ( as a sign of appreciation for being such a gentleman)
          🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
          And nope- sending money to help women’s shelter haven’t crossed his mind, probably because sex was not included

        • HAHAHAHA! Mine told me all the strippers he met were really just struggling law students. Every one of them. what an idiot. And more so me because at first i thought maybe they were poor struggling law students ala Demi moore. LOLOLOL

        • Not that I would wish this pain on anyone but I’m glad I’m not alone. Ya they like you and you’re different then all the other men……puhleeease! When I was livid that ex was using hookers from truck stops etc because according to him everyone knew who he was etc…what if they follow him home because he obviously had money and decided that their pimps etc would break in and steal from us and put my kids and I in danger? His response was, “they would NEVER do that!!!” Really? Why? Because they are so morally strong and considerate? Not desperate at all? They sell their bodies because that’s a career aspiration from childhood? I’m not sure what color the sky is in their demented world!!!
          Jojobee did it make any difference in your settlement that he was with prostitutes? The health risk etc?

          • Your loss

            Mine offered a job one of the “ struggling “ hookers… and of course, they were all clean ladies ( even drug addicts) …. he wouldn’t engage in sexual activities with a STD infected hooker….
            You know, he was so special, that every hooker he came across was a healthy struggling woman
            ( don’t let me start on the idea of using another human being for your own dick related pleasure 🤮🤮🤮🤮)

          • The difference it made was that I calmly told him I had saved every email, text, bit of evidence I found and that multiple copies were stored off-site. He was a high ranking military officer. It would have destroyed and disgraced him. He went quickly and quietly and offered no argument to the terms. I learned a lot from my first cheater. My second cheater was dealt with mercilessly.

      • ‘You are only as good as the woman under you.’ I’m really sorry, Amanda. That is some severely demented shit on his part that dehumanizes the woman he sees as ‘beneath him’ in more ways than one.

  • My STBX “wayward” cheating covert narcissist wife loved her some trickle-truthing. In fact, it was her default whenever she did something, let’s say *unbecoming* (ya know, like cheating). The trickle-bullshitting that she employed during the early days following the discovery was something for the histories.

    The day I caught her, I asked her, “How long has *this* been going on,” at that point knowing next to nothing about anything. “Just a week,” she squeezed out through a face I can only describe as “3 year old who got caught smearing shit on the walls”. A week later when I found out she secretly had snapchat and whatsapp and figured this had been going on for a while, the day she finally came over to put the bullet in my head after a week of pussyfooting and stalling while talking over options with her lawyer, I said “I knew” that this had been going on for a long time. All I got was, “It hasn’t been *that long*” in response. I still don’t know how long, but it was long enough for her to have introduced him to her cheating accomplice girlfriend (who had coffee with them the morning I caught them out together over the phone), long enough to develop feelings for him as she copped to, and long enough to ditch her whole fucking marriage for the guy.

    But she was good at not actually telling the truth even when caught, as evident by “hasn’t been that long,” which tells me jack shit. She also employed the just-say-something-evil tactic rather than trickle-bullshit. For instance, when I stumbled onto the fact that she had *also* been secretly interviewing at other companies for the past two months–something she didn’t even utter in passing to me–I confronted her and she said to me two things that are etched into my brain: “I get a lot of job offers, I’m coming up in the world” and “People can keep secrets from other people”. This was said the day after I caught her. The fucking balls. She threw a lot of this type of statement at me during the early days.

    So what did my STBXWCCNW do to have to avoid even the SCANT amount of trickle-bullshit afterward? She blocked me on everything as if I were the guilty party and not the guy she had been gaslighting and emotionally abusing and deceiving and cheating on for not “*that long*”. You don’t have to trickle-bullshit when you’ve stonewalled the person and there’s nobody around to ask the difficult questions anymore. I know for a fact that her enabling parents aren’t digging into her (people who she also kept in the dark about the details of our downfall, and they probably STILL in the dark).

  • What’s this hotel receipt for?
    Friend x drank too much and couldn’t drive home.
    I thought he was a big vip, why didn’t he pay for it?
    Jesus, he didn’t have his wallet, so I paid.
    You’re broke. Where’s the money he paid back?
    Fuck. You’re the reason I don’t have any friends. Becaùse of shit like this. I can’t really ever tell you anything because you flip out.
    You didn’t tell me. I found the receipt. (Cue the tears, which drove home the proof of my instability and hysteria)
    Friend x was of course the direct report he was banging, my heart just started to break into pieces and I didn’t know why.

    My heart was racing, I thought I was going to fall over. I wish I’d told him to call friend x on speaker right there and then. That’s when I started collecting chump points.

  • WTF … history of CL, pictures of w’s vaginas – name it, it was there
    – not me
    – I don’t know.
    – Someone hacked into my computer ( impossible)
    – Stop bothering me, it’s not a big deal
    – I was just curious
    – never contacted anyone
    – ok I sent an email out of curiosity
    – never met anyone
    – met for coffee
    – went but did nothing

    Reality?

    Posting, searching, dating, hooking up, having sex with any willing participant or any person that he was eager to pay

  • I got the trickel truth plus chaos making, which kept me off balance and in the dark for way too long. I still don’t know what all he did, but the bits I know are awful x infinity.

    One example…the OW masterbated with Bic pens, mailed them to his office, and those were the pens on his desk… In an office where people often collaborated together.

    Shudder. Gross. They both disgust me, and I don’t want to know any more.

  • My X, after setting me up for his DDay, admitted to what he used to set me up (gross porn on all the computers) while flailing and weeping on the floor, begging for help with his “addiction”.

    Instead of me killing him, he went off like a lamb to “sex addiction camp” 2600 miles away. By agreement, his therapist talked to me openly and it was he who opened the doors to The Truth, casually in a conversation.

    I was so shocked that I argued with him that it was not possible!! Not possible!!! It was… unbelievable that my 70 some year old husband had done these things all during our long marriage! And I had had no clue.

    Funny (so not), XH denied it all, and only ever admitted to 10% of it. And had the nerve, in our only conversation after I threw him out, to ask me “why do you WANT to believe all those terrible things about me?”!!!!

    Like, I had not been told by good authority, and had seen (and kept) all the papers from the facility (including a drawing of me dead on a slab).

    He really believed he could continue to chump me!! He really believed I was that stupid.

  • Just some random comments and conversations:
    – We barely ever slept together (No, you just spent two weeks in a hotel in her city subdivision on your last business trip)
    – We barely ever saw each other (you had at least four business trips together incl. company paid hotel rooms, did you make your company pay for one or two?)
    – We did not have sex in a car, a hotel, her house, or ours, and of course not in the office (really? You may not know how an affair works…., he later admitted to booking hotel rooms, I guess I would have freaked out about anything else, so he picked the one the easiest to digest for me)
    – I am only talking to her about business, I am not seeing her…
    – I am not talking to her
    – It is absolutely a coincidence that she filed for divorce the same week I decided that I do not want to do marriage counseling and a divorce, the affair has nothing to do with us…
    – We were over already
    – I went drinking by myself, I was miserable…
    – Stop accusing me of stuff (he clearly thinks questions are accusations)

    So much trickling. I am still waiting for the Big Bang of truth to be uncovered. Not actively searching, but we are going through he interrogatory process right now. For some reason I am waiting for a big thing to happen…

    • Yeah, my ex-wife was also planning matching divorces with her married COW right after the holidays a few years ago (making this time of year so special for me now……). Their relationship had nothing to do with the end of our marriage — it was all just a coincidence — and really it was all my fault, of course. Or so I was told.

      Anyway, I followed through on divorcing her (eventually), but the problem for my ex was, he went running back to his wife. Who couldn’t have seen that one coming? Just ridiculous.

      • This holiday season is the hardest for that reason. I know that last year around this time they were starting to plan their lives together and to confront us right after the holidays. My STBX is just a coward or he wanted cake much longer…. She confronted her husband in February. Mine confronted me right after Easter. Mid-April I had hard evidence and called up her husband.

        My STBX told me that she was already divorced in January. Nothing like that.They were still living together She filed in June.
        Up to this point I have no clue why my STBX lied about them being divorced, already. I can only conclude it was to throw me off. The timelines match perfectly. Essentially, my STBX danced around reconciliation until the week she filed.

        The week she filed we had a marriage counseling session scheduled. It was our first. His idea.
        He called already late, claiming that he could not find a parking spot (when I arrived, there were tons of them, four directly in front of the building), he arrived angry and frustrated, and opted out of marriage counseling right in the session. He claimed that the therapist asked him to make a choice right then and there: to either be with me forever and not at all. He could not make the choice to be with me forever, so he opted out. None of this is true. The counselor said, we need to commit to really be honest when working with him and really wanting to work not he marriage. There was no “forever commitment” on an empty sheet of paper without having done the work. He just made this up, but would not listen to me when I tried to clarify this… He just did not want to. To me, the only reasonable explanation is that he purposefully arrived late and that he and her had made a pact to leave us chumps.

        • My cheater XH also started his affair around Christmas according to the emails of his to her that I read. They were playing footsies for about a month until it turned into a full fledged affair when it all blew up on Valentine’s Day. Two and a half months and they were off to live happily ever after. Five months before I caught him he had insisted on renewing our wedding vows on our anniversary. Who does this shit?! Evil people, that’s who.

  • Trickle Truth is just them being too scared to face the consequences of their actions. Ultimately, they’re all cowards to their core.

  • If you are so inclined, a fun way to combat Trickle Truth is with Trickle Sleuth. Mindfuck ‘em right back. Drop little hints about what YOU know. They’re right….withholding knowledge can be deliciously fun. I found out about his frequent patronage at a hotel near our business from the Google location history on his phone. I asked him about it…of course, he had NEVER been there; Google just picked up on it because he drove by. I dropped the subject. Days later, after giving him plenty of time to wonder and freak out, I called them right in front of him and asked for the reservation history under our name. The desk clerk gave me all the days he had been there.

    I enjoyed seeing the expression and lack of color on that idiot’s face. The gulping. Watching with my own cold dead black steely shark eyes.

    Now I no longer care to look under rocks. I have better things to do than PI work on low lifes.

  • The Asshole actually pulled a Bill Clinton and claimed they only had sex twice. After brutal cross-examination he admitted to lots of sexual touching. Asshole; “That’s not sex! Anyway, it was outside the clothing!” Me (in Clinton’s voice); “Ah did not have sex with that woman.” More cross-examination and he admitted to finger-banging her in a public place. Just one of many examples. I had to do a lot of detective work to find out what had really gone on. The fool kept google maps running at all times so I was able to see every place he went, including her house, which he claimed he had only been to once. Sometimes he would even try to convince me google was wrong. His activity history revealed searches on divorce, threesomes, sex robots and all manner of juicy tidbits. He tried to insist he was searching about divorce for my mom. Super lame lie. My dad had been dead for over a year by that time and she’d never planned to divorce him anyway. That’s how I found out he’d been planning to spring a surprise divorce on me for years, after a period of stringing me along for cake.

    A tip for newly discovered chumps; check the cache on his phone and computer. It sometimes keeps stuff from when they’re browsing in incognito mode, whereas the history won’t. Expect to find porn at the very least. It only keeps it for 90 days so do it right away. Also, search history has only the recent stuff. Google’s my activity feature goes back years. If he uses a texting app, it will tell you when he was texting, and it will also tell you when he was using his camera. It will keep photos he’s deleted. Cheater jerk said there were no photos of them together. Busted by google, all snuggled up with drunken, cheat-happy grins. This is a guy who has worked in tech all his life, is obsessed with computer and smart phone technology, yet I know more about how these programs work than he does. I’ve only had a smart phone since 2017 and he’s had one for many years, but never figured that out? Not saying he’s stupid, but….okay, he’s stupid.

    • I wish I had been tech savvy. I have no idea how to check a cache. If I had, I might not have had to wait for miraculous intervention from the universe to lay evidence in my lap. I could have gotten on with my life that much sooner.

        • One day his computer, which I never opened or looked at before–and which he had password protected, whirred to life (seriously, it was sitting there black and then it wasn’t it was making noise and the screen popped up) and when I picked it up to go put it on his desk my hand must have touched the email icon. The email is also pass protected, but for some reason it opened right up to the email chain spelling his activity out in black and white. It really was miraculous. I would have never known. Unlike my first cheater I never even had a moment of doubt or discomfort. I trusted him completely. There were no red flags. There was no strange behavior. There was no maltreatment of e. He was straight as an arrow good guy. Except he wasn’t. It was all a lie.

    • I think these assholes want to get caught so chumps start the “Pick me !” acrobatics. What better way to feel alive (as an emotionally dead person) than to have people fighting over you ! “Look ! I’m the center of attention !”

      • You could be right about that. My idiot deliberately flaunted his AP in front of my brother. He wonders if he wanted to get caught. No shit, Sherlock. I doubt it was to get a pick-me in his case, though. In a long affair, they may get bored with the AP and want to break up with her, but are too cowardly. They’d rather shatter your heart and murder your soul by arranging for you to find out than risk offending some worthless bimbo by telling her it’s time for the affair to end.
        That’s some powerful suck right there.

  • Some other chumps might have found this couple? While smoking some hopium, I found a relationship counseling couple who said the husband’s affair, “was the best thing that ever happened to us.” They had books and lectures about how it made them stronger, met HIS needs more, HE had to be helped to see how selfish HE was, HE has to learn to communicate, oh, and it’s all her fault for not doing it in the first place.
    Something that stuck with me was her saying his actual affair wasn’t the worst hurt for her, but the “drips of truth” he dropped as time went on, because that, “put salt in the wound.”
    Yet, she still forgave him and they are so happy aka, they have this couples counseling business they both write books for and lecture 24/7 with each other.

    Sounds like girl figured out how to turn her marriage police duties into profits.

    • There are lots of these supposedly reconciled couples trying to sell their secret formula for marriage renewal. They are con artists. Pure and simple.
      “You can be happy just like us!” they promise, when they aren’t happy at all and he still cheats.

  • A month prior to the final DDay I was asked to co-sign a loan on a two family home. I said no. He then said he buy it with his daughter. He couldn’t get financed because he was self employed.

    Then he attempted to move me into a studio he was going to rent. His exact words, “You can sleep there”.

    I found the hotel receipt. Did some digging and there was a charge for a restaurant, and drinks at a casino bar prior. Then breakfast at the hotel.

    When I confronted him on the hotel he asked,”What if I was too drunk to drive?”

    That’s when I surprised him with the phone call the DAY before making the reservation.

    The total cost was over three hundred dollars.

  • I d like to thank CL and CN – everyone who writes posts on here. DD was one year ago 17th December 2017. You have all helped me through the first year. Divorce is in process. Caught him out cheating on me and he admitted to a 13 year afffair (I’d call that a double life). Together for 34 years married for 24.5 years.
    Soooooo much better off with out him. Everything I’ve read about covert narcs rings true. I was gaslighted and lied to daily for 13 years.
    I threw him out that day. Got a lawyer and a financial advisor and whole load of good friends to help me with every aspect of life.
    His children – 22 and 19, want nothing to do with him, ever again. He’s lost all my huge family and most of his extended family and many good friends. He’s living in a shitty mining town and driving a 14 year old car (it was his Dad’s). He’s had a mini stroke and is still drinking heavily. But he’s with the wonderful OW – obviously a person of great character.
    The advice on Chump nation has helped me so much. It’s my go to site every day. I am fighting back on all fronts. Life is better and will continue to get better. I’m free from him and his narc mother. I was used as a servant to them both for years.
    Now l hold my head high and smile – even though it’s been brutal at times.
    Merry Christmas from the U.K.

    • I never thought about but I was a servant to the Dickhead and his sinister sister. As soon as I read your words, the light bulb went off. Hell, he even expected me to cater to her because “she was so good to us”. No, she was good to you, and I still suspect something went on between me. They were too close if you ask me.

      • Ick. Many years ago I actually witnessed cheater’s brother and sister making out at a sporting event that we all went to. When I told him what I saw, he said “oh, they were just drunk”. WTF? And when that same brother tried to do the same thing to me, cheater brushed it off with the same “he was drunk” comment. His own father was very inappropriate with me in front of the whole family. He brushed that off as well. Sick family. I should have run screaming at that point, but I spackled instead. I guess I just thought that cheater was going to rise above the loathsome lack of morals or character that his family displayed and be the man that I (foolishly) thought he was. Nope, he was as bad as they were. Too bad it took me more than four decades to realize it.

    • Merry Christmas F Brown and to everyone from Canada.

      Congratulations for thriving in your first year. My one year is December 30th. I am in a much better place this year than last year, even the year before. As the loose ends tie up, hopefully the way I’d like them, I’m looking forward to the life to come and the growing peace.

      Many blessings to you and your own.

  • After I got the ILYBINILWY speech blurted out in a fucking Starbuck’s while we were dressed up for a cocktail attire event we were on our way to attend, I had my suspicions. I begged for and arranged the marriage counseling. He lied lied lied lied lied the entire time. Thank goodness it only went on for a matter of months before I filed. At some point, before he was served papers, he supposedly had his “come to Jesus” moment where he fessed up to the counselor in a private session. He then pledged to tell me everything. He claimed no more lies, full disclosure, he’d answer every question I had.

    By then, I knew enough. I also knew I didn’t want to know details. It didn’t matter. I got “the speech” and my H of nearly 25 years had moved out. He lived alone for a couple of months and then got a place with his MOWhore employee. I am glad I never took the bait to his full disclosure offer. It would have given him prolonged centrality, and I just know it wouldn’t have been the full truth anyway.

    I wasn’t too keen on the approach of the marriage counselor we’d seen, but I do appreciate one thing. On my last solo visit to her, I confided to her that there was no longer a marriage to counsel and that I had filed. I also told her she would not see me again, as I believed he needed the individual work and it would be better that he remain her client instead of me. The LAST thing she said to me as I left her office that day was “Calgal1, he hasn’t had your back in three years.”

    • Your MC’s final words must have been so validating. I wonder how often MCs see the writing on the wall and still humour a couple (or likely a chump) with reconciliation.

      My MC called out my STBXH the last few sessions by identifying that he’s a man that draws his own conclusions about others and then seeks to make it a reality.

      So, when he concludes that it’s not worth trying to talk to me about anything because I’ll just blow up, he creates the condition so that I am so worked up into a frenzy when I learn something and then feed right into his narrative. She called it and he hated it. Then, he considered MC a waste of time, and felt that all that talking just makes matters worse. Well, I since found out that he was still in contact with the OW during that time. I wonder if the MC knew it and her calling him out was her subtle way of sticking it to him.

      • Option,

        On dday cheater spewed & on about how unhappy he was being married to me. When I asked why he never talked to me about it he said it was because I’d “just blow up.” Never understood it.

  • OMG, CL speaks to me–just ended a 1.5 year serious relationship with a trickle truther.

    In 2014, I ditched a serial cheater, Hannibal Lecher, after 24 years together, and a few years later, ended up in a relationship with a man who touts his “authenticity,” only for him to regale me with one lie of omission after another. It was like the FTD Year of Flouting. Once I cottoned onto a big “omission,” he ran screaming, and broke up from afar–too cowardly to meet in person, or even have a phone conversation.

    Liars are not adults. Nor are they courageous.

    • So sorry Tempest. We work so hard to trust and be vulnerable. You didn’t deserve to be disrespected. I think what we can hold onto in knowing is our dignity.

      What might have previously kept us bound for years no longer remains. For that you are stronger and mighty.

        • The truth, no matter how painful, is always better and less painful than the lie. Good for you for sniffing this out early on and not standing for any of it! people who lie (by commission OR omission) about small things will lie about big things. In fact, the small lies for no reasons or omissions for no reason are huge red flags. The only people who lie when it serves no purpose are flat out psychos. I wish early in life someone had inculcated that truth into my mind. So often in the beginning people let the little lie or omission go because they don’t want to make a big deal out of “nothing.” But the person who will betray your trust over “nothing” is just plain a bad bet. Good for you for seeing it.

    • Tempest,
      I’m sorry that you went through another round with a disrespectful liar. (I thought that this last guy was good to you.) I hope that things improve significantly from here on.)

      • Thanks, RSW. Going to be a painful holiday because he was very tender and kind toward me (at least until the breakup). But what the divorce from Hannibal taught me is to learn to trust my own strength. Hope you are doing well.

        • Sorry about the breakup Tempest but good that you caught on to the lying before years went by.

          The Python didn’t use the word “authenticity” (not sure he’d even understand the concept) but boy could he go on about hating liars. Perfect cover for a pathological liar!

          • YEP! It’s like the way a lot of gay men on the down low are very vocal about how much they hate or are grossed out by homosexuals. It’s a smokescreen.

    • Tempest, I am always eager to hear what you have to say here. Hannibal reminds me of my entitled overt sociopath stbx narc and I always appreciate your insights and advice.

      So I thought if somebody can get it right the second time, it’s Tempest! Now, by “getting it right” I naively and chumpily (again) thought that you would be able to see through a bad person right away. But here we are reminded again that liars are everywhere and are often gifted actors.

      I am sorry to hear about this, but you’ve got it right! You saw through him, caught his lies my omission and have the strengths now to deal with it.

      Sending you lots of love and good energy from Canada. My 10yo son is leaving tomorrow with cheater’s mom to go visit him in his country for Christmas break – this is an arrangement I had chumpily agreed on from the beginning when I pushed with separation. Last year, as I was feeling alone and desperate and missing my son, I rushed myself into a New Year’s visit trip with an old male friend and ended up regretting it right on the first day. This year, I have a lists of things to do and invitations from 6 family friends for Christmas and New Year. I get frustrated with my situation but then – six invitations – I am not a bad person after all and people would like to have my company. Life cheater-free, liar-free and chaos-free is good!

      • LongTimeChump–thanks for your post. You most certainly are a wonderful person, which is why those invitations flowed in (though I’m sorry your son has to have a Fuckwit Christmas this year).

        I have been thinking about my (in)ability to see through a bad person for a second time, and only have these thoughts (still forming): XBF was not a bad person. He is a coward (broke up by email and has refused to see me or talk to me on the phone). I don’t believe he was, or would have been a cheater in our relationship, and perhaps his minimal lies of omission so paled in comparison to Hannibal Lecher’s that I permitted more than I should.

        XBF was also intensely kind and compassionate to me when we were together, and I think I was starved for kindness after 24 years with Hannibal. That hunger made me vulnerable.

        Lastly, I started that relationship with boundaries well in place; a number of times I discussed ending things with BF when he did not show what I deemed healthy communication or boundaries (but he always stepped up to the plate, in a spectacular way, until this last time). The problem is, as the relationship became more committed, it gets harder to keep those boundaries in place because of the enhanced attachment. TBH, I could have avoided the breakup by ignoring a relatively small lie of omission. But as they piled up, I felt I had to confront the issue (and it resulted in BF bailing rather than be honest or transparent).

        Perhaps that’s the lesson for us all–Chumps attach. Once we are attached, it is a battle of the intellect and the heart to maintain our relationship standards. Doing so requires a level of vigilance that we had hoped to never perform again after our cheater-marriages. But, as my therapist pointed out, once you start to feel the need for that vigilance, there’s a reason for it.

        Sometimes the best strategy we have in relationships is veto power; chumps want to give people endless chances to improve, especially if they show insight into a problem. But insight does not lead to accomplishment–XBF could be intensely insightful about his lies of omission, but they kept coming.

        • “Veto power” is a great way to put it. This is precisely why I personally will never cohabitate. I feel like it would be hard and stressful to move out after spotting the Lie of Omission red flag. Living independently preserves that ability to enact the veto power.

        • Tempest: “Lastly, I started that relationship with boundaries well in place; a number of times I discussed ending things with BF when he did not show what I deemed healthy communication or boundaries (but he always stepped up to the plate, in a spectacular way, until this last time). The problem is, as the relationship became more committed, it gets harder to keep those boundaries in place because of the enhanced attachment.”

          When my relationship with the cheater started he would also amp up his behaviour “in a spectacular way” when I expressed frustration with his unhealthy communication and constant secrets. Once I moved to his country where I had no friends or family, had to learn a new language, find a job, and was at my most vulnerable state, he gradually progressed to “my way or highway.” He started starving me with communication, sex and he built walls around his life, job, travel so I had the minimal information on his moving around. He pushed and pushed with small increments and I gave in those small increments because of that increased attachment, my commitment and my thinking that he will eventually understand what good communication skills and relationship entails. Every time I was about to burst out, he would come up with a grandiose sparkly behavior that would deflate me again and I would shame myself into thinking badly about him. And on and on.

          I am in a place now where I just don’t believe that somebody with a tender heart and kindness like your xbf is capable of pushing the healthy boundaries and abusing good communication practices, especially after having been reminded of this and asked by you a few times. They either don’t grow into an adult or it’s a subtle way of manipulation by stepping up big after every slip down. Also, being such a coward and breaking up by email after a serious 1.5-year long relationship? What kind of an adult behaviour is that?

          I can’t yet open myself up for a relationship, perhaps because of those fears of boundary breaking and potential frustrations. I know I will have to open up one day as I simply don’t want to be alone for the rest of my life. It takes lots of courage and strength and most of all the reliance on myself. I am glad your reliance on your own strength has worked for you, Tempest.

  • I was gaslighted.
    Every single issue or factoid or new information I was able to glean off of Facebook, conversations with OWs, and little bits TEO would let slip, I was told NOTHING.
    He still to this day (if I were to confront), 3.5 years later denies everything.
    TEO had actually “confessed”…. This is what I need to sort out—- he told the OWs, his family, friends, co-workers, my family, my friends everything he did— everything, *however* he put it all on ME — he told all that *I* was doing all the horrible things he was doing.
    That’s the rub— he “confessed” to all of his dirty deeds, but he lied at the same time. What the fuck is that about?
    Even when Mrs. Dumbass’s mother stalked my Facebook pages and found a mutual friend between us to verify all of TEO’s lies, she STILL continued to not only date him but married him within months (if they are to be believed) of meeting for the first time. She had the truth right up in her face and she shucked it and stayed with him.
    Over the last few months, circumstances have occurred to where I have to speak to Mrs dumbass about DD. Little bits and pieces she’s shared causes me to think he’s no different for her than he was with me.
    But, Mrs dumbass isn’t going to be a 30-year-old, twice-divorced, 2 kids’mom working from home. She’s not. She’d rather be with TEO than live life on her own. Hell, she was living with her parents after being CHUMPED herself— her first husband left her the day after their second daughter was born for a Hooters girl he met in the Philippines… SMH… Not my monkeys, not my circus.

    Back to today’s post- what if you never get admissions of truth? Like I have had to do, you come to a place to where you say to yourself that you will probably never get validation not verification of all that you know that you know happened. And that is OK, move on. Go live a mighty life like I try to every single cheater free day I’ve had the last three plus years now.
    ❤️🌷

    • I didn’t really ever get the truth from my STBXH either. It was either all things I discovered in varying ways or things he let slip out and I caught him on it. He hated that I was able to connect so many dots fairly accurately, or that my logic challenged claims that he was making. I guess that’s what made me so “emasculating,” the fact that although I was being chumped, when I sniffed the truth, he didn’t stand a chance.

      Yet, he still managed to get away from it for far too long. Silly me. Never again.

      • Same here. I *knew* the truth. I knew it, but he could never come clean. Never again indeed.
        I distinctly remember when we sat down to go over the divorce demands, I looked him in the eye and said, “Before we write this all down, I want you to know that I know everything.”
        Truthfully, I didn’t know jack shit, but I knew enough at that point to know he was a sorry ass cheater.
        He sat frozen, eyes wide with fear and face flushed and said .. nothing. Not a word except, “OK” and we proceeded to draw up a mighty-in-my-favor divorce decree.

  • My STBX flew to visit our mom in his hometown and then drove straight to his AP, where he spent several hours into the night. His sister called me worried because he was supposed to be at his mom’s house many hours previous. Calls and texts from the sister and myself went unanswered. When he finally decided to get back to me, he sounded quiet, sheepish and totally guilty.
    ‘Where were you?”
    “Driving around”
    “For 4 hours? Why didn’t you answer our texts or calls, we were about to start calling hospitals”
    “There was no internet service”
    “What? In (insert large American city) ? That’s not true. Were you with someone?”
    “No, I was by myself. I needed time to just think.”
    “For four hours?”
    The pathetic exchange went on, but without much info from him.
    Later, he admitted that when he’d “gone rogue,” which is what I’d called it, he had gone to her house but the “didn’t have sex” because, and he actually told me this, he “couldn’t get hard.” He says he never had “sex” with her or the previous AP (yes, there were 2 or more) because he could never get all the way there. Even if this isn’t total bullshit, which I’m sure it is, when I pointed out to him that there were other forms of “sex” such as oral, he realized that he actually yes, he’d had sex. Dumbass.
    Plus, he gave me these lines as well:
    “She hit on me.” (the first AP- his yoga instructor- so cliche, I could throw up)
    “She kissed me.” (second AP – funny how that happens when you invite her over to your mother’s house late at night when no one is around.) Apparently women throw themselves at this man.
    “I thought we could all be friends” (when he decided to introduce me to his AP one fateful day- the day I figured it all out)
    “She has feelings for me, I don’t have any for her.” (right before DDay, when I was really on to him. At that point I told him to drop her entirely or I was gone).
    So many more but really, what’s the point. I’m going to leave and get on with my life without this cheater as my partner.
    I only hope he can become a better dad, because he also dragged our kids into his fantasy by taking them camping with his AP (before I knew she was the AP) and her kid (my kids were on Spring break and I couldn’t get the time off) , which I asked him not to do several times, because I’d never met her and it felt uncomfortable and wrong, but he did anyways. Probably trying out a new prospective family situation. Well, it backfired because my kids hated her obnoxious younger kid and didn’t appreciate the whole set up.
    Not a very good dad move. I’m hoping he can do better by them but I know I’m just over his ridiculous gaslighting and abuse.

    • I feel sorry for your children. I wouldn’t hold your breath on jerk “being a better father”. Selfish narcs don’t show up emotionally on the parenting front.

    • Narcs are narcs everywhere: in their jobs with their colleagues, at home with spouses and children and other family and friends. They don’t have the capability to put somebody else’s interests and needs above their own. I don’t expect my stbx magically turn into a good father when he never was. I know I have 8 more years of a shit sandwich of parallel parenting and as soon as my son turns 18 I am going to deep-six cheater’s email and telephone number.

      I learned grey-rock here. I used to slip into unnecessary “but you cheated on me! how could you treat me like this!” for the first year after we split, but now our communication is strictly limited to separation agreement clauses and child related issues. When I have to email him, I re-read my text a few times and get rid of every single redundant word so I end up sounding just be plain and cold business-like with as short messages as possible. Which suits me just fine.

  • *Visit HIS Mom, not our mom. His mom let’s him do whatever she wants. Mine would have reamed his ass for not showing up when he said he would.

  • The nearest I ever got to the truth from my ex was this: ‘Contrary to what you think, I haven’t fucked everyone in Northern Europe.’

  • “They enjoy the power of their secrets.”

    You know Jennifer and Linda and Karen, and Donna
    Cheryl and Joanne, and Lori, and Dianna, and Sharon
    But do you recall
    The most famous Slunt of all?
    Nanthony the needy slunt
    Had a very slimy vagina
    And if you ever saw it
    You would even say it’s gross
    All of the other one nighters
    Used her for one night stands
    They never let poor Nanthony
    Join in holding hands
    Then one foggy Drunk filled bar
    The Limited came to say
    “Nanthiny with your vagina not so tight
    Won’t you guide my penile pump tonight?”
    Then how the slunt loved him
    As they shouted out with glee
    “The Limited the double lifer
    You’ll get to go down on me!

  • “Let’s call trickle truth what it is — continued lies by omission.”

    Absolutely!

    When I learned that he was having an affair and booted him out to have time to think, I decided to give my marriage a chance. I did some reconciliation reading and came across the term “trickle truth,” however, it wasn’t presented in a favourable light as found in the letter above. Thank God. What I read was how damaging trickle truth is and the importance of the betrayer to simply put all the cards on the table in order for real healing to be possible. I presented this to my husband. Showed him an article that stated that if there was any hope of reconciliation, he would need to just let me have the full truth of the extent of the affair. The article even explained how psychologically damaging it is to “trickle truth” because as the betrayed spouse finally comes to terms with what they believe is the whole truth, they are then damaged again by the discovery of more truth and the process of reconciliation has to reset.

    So, he led me to believe that he was handing it all to me. When I think back to that “moment of truth” conversation, knowing what I have discovered now, there wasn’t a single “fact” that he relaid to me that was even remotely close to the truth of the extent of this relationship. What he wanted me to believe at that time was that this was a woman he had only met a few months before, gone over to her place a handful of times to chat, watch a movie, have some wine, and they had just recently shared a kiss. He was scared of losing me and had already started marriage counselling in the hopes that it would make amends for what happened.

    The truth at that time as I have since learned was that she was in the picture already for about 10-11 months. They had several outings – including a day at the amusement park, an overnight in the big city to watch a baseball came, a couple of casino visits. The relationship had been sexual (not sure when that began). He had already met her children during a visit to her place.

    And, he never stopped seeing her for most of the year that followed in which I performed a most devastating pick me dance and got sucker-punched time-and-time again each time another trickle of truth came out – of course none of it given up freely by him.

    Trickle truth, lies by omission, minimizing, gaslighting, entitlement – whatever name it goes by – I am starting to understand was absolutely abusive and traumatizing. I don’t give a F–# what his mental state has been through all of this – midlife crisis, identity crisis, cognitive dissonance, or just plain confusion about what he wanted in his life – there is nothing, NOTHING, I did that deserved to be treated so callously by a man I had given my life to for almost 12 years of marriage, three years of dating prior, bearing two children, supporting him through two job lay-offs and three years of studying for a university degree full-time, caring for our child with autism, fostering better relationships with his own family members than he ever did. There is no degree of “control” that he accuses me of that warranted this. Whatever “emasculating” behaviours I am supposedly guilty of does not justify this. My children didn’t deserve this.

    Trickle truth is cowardly. Cowards!

    Sorry, this is a hard time as my one year post-separation comes to a close during these holidays. I’m venting through each of the days left in the countdown to the day he left for good last year, and I’m wondering what’s taking the lawyer so bloody long to put the final touches on the legal separation agreement that I’m hoping the idiot will just sign so that I can move on in my life without the anxiety that he’s still going to screw me and the kids over some more.

    • “Trickle truth, lies by omission, minimizing, gaslighting, entitlement – whatever name it goes by – I am starting to understand was absolutely abusive and traumatizing. I don’t give a F–# what his mental state has been through all of this – midlife crisis, identity crisis, cognitive dissonance, or just plain confusion about what he wanted in his life – there is nothing, NOTHING, I did that deserved to be treated so callously by a man I had given my life to”

      THIS.
      Every time I start thinking about my faults in the marriage, I come back to this. None of my faults made it okay for him to treat me the way he did. NONE. They are indeed cowards.

      • Here, here as well!! I kept saying to my mom and my cousin that I didn’t deserve to be treated like I was a piece of shit. I hadn’t done anything that warranted the blatant disrespect and ill-treatment that I got from him and his sinister sister. They can both go to hell.

    • Vent away, OptionNoMore, vent away! You are among friends and we are here to listen. I hope that you find some peace soon. When I moved out and the divorce was finalized, my life found some partial peace and resolution. There was not more what-ifs, or is he going to do next. I hope your Christmas is peaceful and filled with friends and family.

      Here’s to our coward-free lives!!

  • Now I understand why ex seemed so bothered by the fact that I didn’t ask more questions and dig deeper to find out more than I already knew, both with the emotional affair and with the physical one (which turned out to be the second one that I know of, maybe more but I didn’t ask enough questions). He missed out on his opportunity to evade. Maybe he was hoping it would be a way for us to be engaged, but I didn’t want to be engaged in that kind of game. I don’t have time for that.

    • When I inadvertently did find out about Schmoopie 1.0 and asked about the timing (which correlated almost exactly with his starting to act like a complete dick towards me and the kids), he said he was glad I was finally asking questions. At that point I just tried to cover it all with one question “so what else don’t I know about?” He claimed I knew it all and reiterated that nothing had happened with Schmoopie 0.0 who was the emotional affair. At the time that happened he had told me he kissed her. I don’t consider that “nothing”. This made me wonder what else he might consider “nothing”. How many other stolen kisses, blow jobs etc. with various a sundry might there have been that he didn’ t think counted? I know there were other women he was close to in one way or another that I spackled as “friends”. I chose not to pursue further as it didn’t really matter. I knew by then that my feelings didn’t count for squat and I didn’t matter to him at all.

  • “I know this is a very difficult time for him, and my questions trigger more self-loathing in him…”
    Oh my God…I just threw up in my mouth a little.
    Poor chump….smh…I hope she gets smart and finds her strength to leave.

  • The disordered NEVER admit to anything except:
    1. Truths you’ve already discovered, although they will probably twist or minimize them.
    2. Truths they fear you are about to discover, although again, likely twisted or minimized.

    If your cheater is truly disordered — and not all of them are, most are just jerks — you can be certain that whatever you know is only the tip of the iceberg. They never admit the entire truth, partly out of self-preservation, but to a large extent because they enjoy tricking you and making you look foolish, and they love knowing they have a secret that you think you know, but you really don’t. For the disordered, that all provides a huge rush of excitement and power, spiced up with a dash of cruelty. They get off on that.

    • In our last correspondence, the Dickhead said he cheated “but not with who you think” It’s all about winning and it’s all a game. In a way, I’m glad that he initiated the divorce. I finally got to see the man behind the mask. The man that I suspected he was but saw in very small glimpses. Now that I know, there is never a way to un-see.

      • On the day I moved out of marital home, nearly five months after Dday, I awoke to find a card from cheater waiting for me on the kitchen table. He’d written how sad it was that I was moving out, and added that I should “not concern myself with who he might, or might not, be seeing.” The front of the card said, “You are beautiful.” Fuckin’ freak.

        • Yeah, Glad, I have to agree with you, your freak is worse than mine. Yuck! And the thing is, he seems to think he is all that and a bag of chips doesn’t he!

    • When I presented mine with the six pages of his disordered behavior that I had discovered during the divorce. He stated that it was “my version of the truth”. Yes, the version that I found on bank statements, credit card statements, casino records, phone logs, travel reservations and hidden greeting cards. Just so glad that I am not him nor with him.

  • When I confronted my Ex about the affair the first words out of his mouth were “What do you think you know?”

    That basically says it all. He was only willing to admit to what he thought I knew. Since then, bits and pieces have been uncovered and I don’t even bother telling him what I know any more because I will never get the truth. He is incapable of being truthful.

    Even in parenting, his baseline operating procedure is to lie, omit or distract. This past weekend for example, he preemptively sent me a message saying that our daughter didn’t practice piano because she forgot her books but other than that she had a great weekend. After the exchange, she tells me she had a very strange weekend in which her dad asked her if she wanted to be a part of family photos. She responded that she was uncomfortable with that. OW then throws a fit and tells them to go to dinner by themselves. At dinner her dad tells her that they have to stay at Nana’s that weekend because OW is mad. Through another random series of events they end of staying at OW’s and daughter caves on the family photos because she feels it will make everyone stop being mad. So basically the furthest thing from being a great weekend.

    How do they continue to think that sh*t like this won’t come out? Why even bother telling me that she had a great weekend?

    • It’s a preemptive strike. Like putting forth the narrative that the chump is the problem spouse and caused the cheater to cheat.

      Such assholes

  • Me, after discovering a bizarre Amtrak booking on our credit card statement: Did you take a train across Florida to Tampa when you were supposed to fly out of Miami after your business trip?

    Him: I wanted to see someone. She’s a friend. I stayed in a hotel.

    Me: Which one? And where is the receipt?

    Him: Uh…

    Me: You stayed with her, didn’t you?

    Him: Okay, yes. But I slept in the guest bedroom.

    Me, with narrowed eyes:

    Him: Okay, I stayed in her bedroom but we didn’t do anything.

    Me: Be very careful. You’ve already lied at least once in this conversation.

    Him: Okay, we did do something. But it wasn’t sex.

    Me: Was it oral?

    Him: Yes.

    Me: That’s sex.

    Honestly, I always felt like the only grown-up in that marriage.

    • That’s because you were. Mine said the same thing. ” I didn’t have sex with her. But I had oral. Oh, yah, I guess you could call that sex.” It took 2 conversations to get that out of him, he tried so hard to hide it.
      They act like entitled babies who panic and tantrum when they are caught.

  • Found ‘massage’ pornography on his history and ask if he has ever been to massage parlours. His response; “I won’t discuss what I did as a young man”.

    Knew he was looking at pornography again and on confrontation he refused to tell me any information, only that he had committed ‘mental adultery’, and that he refused to tell me anymore because he knew it would “torture” me and himself if I knew.

    God revealed one of his 2 year plus adulteries to me. When confronted he refused to discuss any aspect of it. Said he was not telling me a thing about it, except that “adulterous ‘acts’ occured” but no “intercourse”.

    Oh, I could go on but my brain is tired….years and years of trickle truth. I think the worst part is their denying us the right to the truth so we can make informed decisions for our lives.

  • As I discovered his Wattsapp messages with OW going years back: “It’s not what you think. She used to be my gf (14 years ago) and I could never understand the emotional connection I had with her all through these years. I now know for sure we are part of a split-soul. I met a guy in the pub who is an expert on that and he explained. Yes, there is such a thing as a split soul. When we were born, one soul split into two bodies and we were meant to re-unite a few times throughout our lives. So I now know that it was just the emotional connection and I understand the reasons and I am now done with her. Trust me.”

    As I discovered that the affair was not “just emotional connection” but pre-planned meetings, visits across countries for 12 years starting from the beginning of our marriage: “Well, you need to understand that I absolutely HAD to go through this life experience and learn about myself, my mission in this life and this strong connection I felt towards her. I never planned to leave you and be with her. I am very thankful to you for being a wonderful wife and supportive partner and a great mother to our child, but this experience is something I could not stop because it was not me making decisions, but my soul. Or part of the soul. Who am I (or you) to go against the soul?!”

    As we were in the wreckonciliation and I was pick-me-dancing induced by hopium: “Just know that I am a changed man and fully committed to my family now. I had to live through this experience and I am done with it. But if her soul calls me from afar to go and save her (because she is apparently in a dangerous job and cruel people are after her) I will have to drop everything and go. Please understand this is a connection that is above my abilities to handle. I don’t treat her as another human being, or a woman I used to love, but she is part of my soul!”

    As I discovered Tinderapp and conversations with other skunks on his phone: “These all happened earlier, pre-wreckonciliation. I was unhappy with you. I was exploring other options. I am done now.”

    As I told him he should immediately stop all soul-skunk-former colleague-former gf-tinder, etc connections, he lost it and started screaming: “I told you I will not fuck anybody outside of the house (chumps, please decipher)! But I will also not fuck you!!! I decide who to fuck! You don’t control my penis!”

    As I discovered (during wreckonciliation and planning a renewal of vows and tattooed rings – grandiose cheater ideas as always) another whattsapp diarrhea with his former colleague: “Stop snooping on me! You know I engage in this kind of conversations just to spite you. Do you think you can control me?!”

    Then (during my final stages of marriage policing, 2 months after I discovered the CL and CN) I found a 6-year-old email in his old computer to the split-soul-skunk describing his love feelings and the plan for future where he spelled it out how he would leave me and son and live with her and her daughter in other countries, supporting her career growth, even flying to the moon with her. I was suddenly done.

    Thank you, ChumpLady, for my daily doze of reality, snark and tremendous growth and strength I derive from here.

    • Holy crap, this cheating XH of yours just broke the Internet with my mindfuckery. How on earth did you listen to that horse shit? I would have went Ninja Italian on his head.

      • Chumptopia, this is what I struggle with now – a fight with myself and how could I take this shit from him for such a long time. The answer is simple really. I trusted him more than I trusted myself.

        He was just enjoying his power play over me. Now that he knows that I see his X-ray picture, he looks at me with scary dead eyes. I sometimes have a feeling he would not hesitate to pull up crazy. The dead stare was always there but mostly employed with others and me being around so I “learn my lesson”, although he gave me a few of those chilling moments. He was never physically abusive but his disdain, mockery, condescending attitude sent my self-esteem to the lowest possible levels. And his chilling deadly stare and proclamations like “My way or highway!” kept me in my chumpy place for a long time. He is now quite surprised and complains that I have changed. Ha!

        • Please say you are no longer with him! You know the term “magical thinking” is used to describe how children can believe in Santa, the Easter bunny and the tooth fairly is usually over by age 8. I put your husbands emotional maturity at 5 or 6. Magical thinking about split souls! Sheesh, I laughed out loud.

          • Let go, I am no longer with him although he has been dragging the paperwork for about 2 years now.

            It’s interesting how easily a third person can spot an emotional immaturity while he has been hiding under a facade of a well-educated, smart, well-spoken, new age-y cosmopolitan who traveled the world, studied comparative religion, economics and law and speaks several languages and rates himself as the king of the world. I trusted every single word that came out of his mouth as an eternal truth. I think my emotional maturity was also around 5 or 6 years of age when I was with him. I just wanted to believe in his sparkles. Argh! I shudder now when I look back.

    • LongTimeChump,

      What a walking, ticking time bomb of explosive verbal diarrhea that ‘husband’ of yours!

      He said, ‘You need to understand that I absolutely HAD to go through this life experience and learn about myself…’ I heard something similar from my husband after he left (during wreckonciliation). I calmly asked him some months after D-Day #1 (during wreckonciliation) if he felt any remorse. He replied, ‘No. I needed this to discover myself.’ (Apparently, he needed to discover himself–and others–for well over a decade of our relationship.) Silly me–I used meditation, conversation with wise friends and professionals, reading of self-help books to ‘discover myself.’

      You’re not alone in wanting to believe the sparkles. (I would probably win an Olympic medal in lie and sparkle believing if those were Olympic events.) Although my educated, professionally very successful last boyfriend sometimes did things that made me think of a disordered, impulsive, tantrum-throwing four-year-old teller of stupid lies, I wanted him to stick around. Disturbingly, I still often do (want him to come back).

      • RSW, good to hear from you! A bit of downtime here at work so I have time to post (although I read every day).

        He was a ticking bomb now that I think of it. Living in constant anxiety over his moodiness, sulkiness, passive-agressiveness, constant secrets – I started questioning my own values and expectations of good healthy relationship. The funny thing is that I had witnessed a solid good marriage of my parents and healthy family communication/atmosphere but all of a sudden I started questioning if my parents had it right. For example, when I found out early on that he went to buy property for a potential store and was upset that he had not told me, he turned this into a huge tantrum and made me feel guilty. He said that since I could not give him business advice (in his country, obviously), nor help with finances, then there was no reason to keep me posted. He bought a very old landrover and told me about it when it was delivered under the building. I would ask him to call me when he traveled to let me know he landed safely and he never would because I was “trying to control him.” He would say that if the plane crushed I would find out one way or another. If, God forbid, I brought up my parents and how they constantly talked to each other and even involved us the kids in major decisions, he would say to stop comparing him with my dad because I obviously had “daddy issues” and did not grow up. And “I chose him because he reminded me of my dad” (not at all!) but he obviously was not my dad and I had an Oedipus complex. Argh!!!

        He gradually turned me into a submissive and silent lamb. If I dared to confront him it would turn into a screaming match and the subsequent passive agressive treatment so I learned to shut down. I knew by the turn of his keys if he was coming home in a good mood or not, if I was allowed to ask questions or not. If I asked him “how was your day at work” I was up for “it’s none of your business, stop nosing around my work!” If I did not ask him (which was most of the time because I was afraid) then he would accuse me of being cold and not interested – these types of accusations would usually come up when I initiated intimacy so he had a good excuse to turn me down.

        I always had a feeling that something was off in our relationship but then he would step up around other people, usually my friends or family. Always openly showing attention, praising me for my cooking or other skills, which confused me more. Others always commented how much they thought he loved me. I felt something must have been wrong with me if I did not feel that love but others would see it. And I chose to believe others over my own gut feeling.

        Writing about it still pains me, but it also is therapeutic. Having read and educated myself on this site for over 2 years now I get all the mindfuck and gaslighing he had to do to keep me off his scent. But I am done now and he gets it.

        I see him now twice a year when I have to face him to discuss the separation, but I have been perfecting my grey rock. I think it has started working with him, it looks like he’s lost interest in triggering even the negative kibbles from me. Hopefully the 2019 will be the year of my divorce from this grand narc.

  • At first, it was “He is a friend who happened to be at the exact same place I was when you showed up unexpectedly.” (It was on our anniversary, no less).
    Then, “it was just flirting I took too far.” (Isn’t flirting too far?)
    Then, when confronted with the fact that I was aware that a dinner with co-workers was not that, it was “we just went to talk.”
    When confronted that this sounded fishy, I got to see the rage channel. Apparently, all this was my fault…and the fact that I’d investigated her lies was “snooping” and “invading her privacy.”
    Good riddance.

  • Ohhhhhhhh. the lies …………… (oops Trickle Truth

    I could fill a book. example below

    “Im NOT swiping porn @2am in our living room” ( use your imagination what was going on in his robe)

    yes, you are I could see the images in your glasses.

    “Im looking up stuff for …….testoserone issues”

    Getting home really late after work usually was due to “helping some poor lady with her vehicle” His route home was very busy freeways.

    I discovered a Saved for Later porn movie on DVR already purchased.

    Amazingly I had plans to be out of town for a few days. Apparently the cable company MUST have done this by error. (insert LOL) He gets so fake outraged that he calls the cable company demanding to know why this was there! Can you imagine the cable company customer help person dying laughing. What a child!

    • Bwahahahaha. He calls the cable company raging about the porn movies he’s getting ALL by ‘mistake.’ Laughing their asses off indeed.
      There really is no end to their bat shit behavior.

  • You may as well try to nail jello to a wall as to try get the truth out of a cheater and liar. They will only admit to what you can prove. And even then it will be morphed to make them look innocent.

  • Amen! After reading LACGAL I called out my husband on his “narcissistic entitlement” for not giving me access to a Facebook account he was using. I was continually being told it “wouldn’t be helpful” for me by him and his “therapist”. His therapist told me “I know you’re in a lot of pain, but you have to understand that he’s coming from a place of pain as well (and thus can’t tell the truth)”. Thanks, CL, for giving me the language I needed to take back my power from my awful husband and the RIC co-conspiritors!

    • Clearly the therapist was not familiar that “the truth shall set you free” presumably from pain :-). Some of these therapists are awful.

  • If it was legal to use enhanced interrogation techniques like hmmm say a car battery and jumper cables on cheating spouses the truth would definitely not trickle it would be told immediately.

  • Remembering that time I found panties that were clearly not mine in his man cave and he claimed he’d bought them to jerk off with. Bangs head on table. At this point I feel the need to point out that my screen name comes from a good friend who said to mw, at a very dark point, Girl you are too smart for this shit. Clearly at one point I wasn’t. Sigh.

  • Trickle truth. Dribs and drabs. I’m imagining a half finished Jackson Pollack style or pointillist painting done by a psych patient.

    My favorite trickle truth since dating has been “I’m not married.” Oh really, then why does my Google search show me your wife’s Facebook page with “got married” (two years ago) on her timeline, with images from the wedding ? Bye Felipe. Next.

  • Hey CL and CN!!! Here at work still. At a car dealership. Just walked passed a female coworker enjoying some FACE time with a construction worker here. She is long time married with grown kids. Her husband works at our sister store 1/4 mile from us. Never been in this situation at work. Her husband seems like a good man. provides a very nice life for her. He does very well financially. Treats her very well from what I have seen. Seems very foolish for a woman her age to do this and risk everything. Granted, I know nothing of their marriage but she has never spoken poorly of her husband. Not that I am or would. But what is or are the thoughts of CL and CN. Is this something I should ignore? Should I tip off her husband ANON to spare him humiliation and future infidelity? I always believe the Chump should be given a choice. However, this is my place of work and don’t want to shit where I eat. LOL. This info is 20 mins old and here at work it is 304pm MDT. I’d love to hear from anyone who has a thought. I’ll check back in the A.M.

    • Almost midnight here but I would go the anonymous route and quickly. If I had to think it over too much I would keep going backwards and forwards.

    • Hmmm…I don’t know about saying anything. My boss abhors gossip and I know my job would be in jeopardy if it ever came out that I was responsible for something like what you’re contemplating. Besides, you saw her Facetiming, that’s a little bit different then if you caught them in the mop closet boinking. If that were the case, I’d tell you to go for it.

        • Bust her to hubby before she gives him an STD. Do you have his email? Use an anonymous one of your own to spill the tea. If not, you can send an anonymous letter to him at work by messenger or snail mail. It shouldn’t affect your work. She might suspect it was you, but what’s she gonna do about it? It’s not like she can complain to the boss that you told her husband you saw her messing around with some dude at work. That conversation would likely not go well for her.

  • As always, you nailed it with this commentary, Tracy.

    Trick truth is nothing more than paper I can wipe my ass with…it’s full of crap. (I shudder at my vulagrity!)

  • After D-Day #1, where I found out he was “enjoying” his best friend’s wife, and his reaction was, “this doesn’t affect YOU”, he started leaving receipts on the counter, in plain sight. Restaurant and bar receipts. We hadn’t been out to anywhere as a couple in months, yet he was spending an average of $100 a pop on meals and ‘dates’. When I mentioned it, he says, “well, you won’t find any motel receipts in there”.

    Sad. I guess fucking ex-besties wife was too hard, so he had to move onto a nearly 30-yrs younger than him gf a couple of months later. By then I had stopped looking at receipts, just the bank statements he was required to present to my attorney. Which revealed a good $2,000 in motel and AirBnB charges to his account. What a guy.

  • D’day for me was full of trickle truth.

    He had an affair but it only lasted 4 weeks and it was eight years ago (no big deal). I would later learn that the affiar had lasted so long and had included my children that the staff at the local shops were confused when they found that he was my husband because the were so pleased to live in a community that was so open to a gay couple with kids.
    He claimed he had ‘walked straight’ since the affair only falling (having sex with another) at the begining of that year, totally omited that he had hooked up three weeks before D’day or that there had been 20 attitional partners during the eight years since the affair that came later but becuase it was not witnessed the church refused to believe he had said it choosing to stick the the sanitised version he had told them and confessed to me in front of them making my reaction more than it needed to be in their opinion.

    My ex husband is gifted by at lies by omission and being ambigious in his speach in order to be able to confirm or deny content at a later date depending on the need, as a result I no longer trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

  • I would like to share an experience I had in a motel awhile ago.

    While dog-showing, I was in a strange town and accidently picked a seedy motel, but it was close to the fairgrounds.

    It was too hot inside the dump (and it was a dump but good enough for me and my dog). I sat in front of my door on the deck doing work on the computer and realized this beautiful young woman sure had a lot of friends coming and going. Duh me, but she was so cute and small and long dark hair and pretty and she had a big black tall man with her, which I thought odd. So, I started watching, pretending I was working.

    I guess this couple decided I was okay right next door but I know I made them uncomfortable, but they went ahead with their afternoon. Every single 15 minutes, I’d watch a middle age/old/even young men, park their car a distance from her room, tuck under a hoodie or a hat with his head down, and come up the flight of stairs to her room, never looking anyone in the eye. I have no idea where the tall black man was. In the closet? A pimp? Anyway, I watched a steady stream of guys come and go from there, every 15 mins for 2 hrs. Suddenly, this woman and black guy hurry out of the room, jump into a different car that somebody had pulled up in, and somebody else drove their car away. All happened so fast and I’m still amazed at what neive me was concluding.

    I can’t help but add, shortly after; one of the richest, most-respected, religious businessman in our big city was caught in a seedy motel just like this one. Busted along with 9 other Johns and his face was all over the local news and Financial Channels. Arrested and spent the night in jail. Let’s just say, he lost his status overnight.

    • You just never know with people.

      A nugget of trickle truth that came out of Judas Jack’s mouth was his confession of being caught in a prostitution sting operation, the one where he was about to pork a hooker and cheat on his first wife.According to him, she has borderline personality disorder. Riiigggght. Other nuggets fell out of his mouth and I ghosted him.

      He is a self-professed Christian and a college educated engineer with two adult children. I’m so glad he had erectile dysfunction (even with the little blue pill) and we only had sex a couple of times using a condom. Porn Slob can go run his scam on some other woman.

  • On Dday (12/26/09) cheater told me he bought the OWhore a pair of $30 earrings for Christmas from JC Penney – as if the cheapness made it ok (he never shopped at JC Penney). Months after he left I found a receipt from a fine jewelry store for an expensive bracelet that was paid for with cash.

    • If you have any financial matters to settle, this is disbursement of marital property without your knowledge and he should give you half. May not make you feel differently but better to be tough on these things if you can.

  • When we were in wreckonciliation, I asked the Troglodyte if OW had called him as I was told they broke it off and that he wanted to work on our marriage. I would later find out she didn’t have to call him – he was calling her!

    I also found the Tiger Text app on his phone but was told that he was just curious about it. What a fool I was to believe that.

  • “Well I don’t know. I must have then.” What is he, 12? That’s the lame kind of excuse a preteen would use.

  • And then they want credit for trickle truth!! Close to a year after all this is happening he had true confessions night with me over the phone after he had moved out to see if he ‘he could be good to me.’ He told me the affair timeline was different than I thought, gave me more details on how they met, more details, and that he had messaged a previous affair partner and told her about this affair partner. I spent days feeling awful that he literally went to the previous hoe to brag about this new hoe in his life. He kept getting irritated and said he didn’t understand the big deal. Like, so??

    The kicker is that when I said he was always withholding truth he would say, “I’m telling you the truth now.” Through therapy he lied. While living and ‘trying to make the marriage work’ he lied. But now he was telling the truth and he wanted credit. It’s mindfuckery at its finest.

  • >