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Dear Chump Lady, I’m the OW and I’m terrified he’ll cheat on me

Dear Chump Lady,

I am probably the biggest chump of all, but here goes…  I was married for 21 years and had an affair (the only one) with a married man I work with, who had been married for 17 years. 

He said I’m number 8 for him. He told me about all of them — even about sleeping with his wife’s best friend (who also happens to be his best friend’s wife and neighbor). My naiveté made me believe that it was a one time thing. He told me it went on for 15 years! I can’t even begin to wrap my head around that, but I am still with him. 

He also told me he went to a strip club when he was away for work for a month and picked up a stripper — also that she stayed with him the entire time he was there. We both divorced our spouses and are living together, but as you can probably guess it’s not good. I obviously don’t trust him and a lot of times can’t stop thinking about his past. It makes me want to vomit. I am terrified he will cheat on me — he said he won’t of course. AM I THE BIGGEST CHUMP OF ALL?


Dear DB,

No. You’re not a chump at all. You’re the victor in the fuckwit Thunderdome. You’ve beat out the competition and won the sparkly turd, DB. No tag backs. He’s all yours.

If Chump Nation wonders why I run these OW letters (which invariably devolve into troll fests) consider them a public service announcement — this is what winning the Pick Me Dance looks like.

The obvious but nauseating realization that you’re not special? Check.

Twitchy, mind-bending hypervigilance? Check.

Living together (presumably between strippers), clinging to the facade of your shitty relationship, to prove that annihilating two families was worth it? Check.

DB, I’m sorry. You competed for this Dreamboat with the full knowledge of who he is. Regretting your decision doesn’t make you a chump.

Perhaps you think being a chump means making stupid relationship decisions. Or having the kind of piss poor self-esteem that allows a person to tolerate fuckwits. Let’s be clear on the concept. Chumps are UNKNOWING. They are duped, lied to, humiliated, used, conspired against, conned. You are none of those things. You knew exactly what you were getting — a cheater. You’re a cheater. He’s a cheater. You aren’t us. Chumps are acted UPON, they are not the actors. Chumps do not consent to be chumps. You, on the other hand, signed up for this shit.

Ergo — you are not the victim here. You’re Number 8. One idiot in a long line of idiots.

So now you’re terrified that he’ll do to you what you were complicit in doing to another? And you want MY sympathy? Who the fuck do you think you are?

Look, I’m an actual chump, so part of me feels bad ripping you to shreds for reaching out to me. You has a sadz and maybe I can help. But then I bitchslap myself, because post-infidelity Tracy has zero tolerance for your kind of malignant entitlement.

Entitlement? Yeah, the kind of chutzpah that writes “I had an affair (the only one)…” You want a bitch cookie? Tell it to the guy who lost 21 years of his life to a cheater (YOU). You’re scared shitless that Mr. Wonderful MIGHT do to you what you actually DID to your ex-husband. Meditate on that.

Or how about the entitlement that led you to fuck a married co-worker? Did you consider his chump wife? Let me guess — she didn’t Sufficiently Appreciate Him. Compelled him to fuck those strippers and her best friend, huh? She must’ve deserved it. Unlike YOU there Sparkletwat. Best of luck with all your super specialness. Hope it serves as a magic barrier against STDs.

DB, it takes some gobsmacking gall to come on a support site for chumps when you’re the OW. I’m sorry that merely thinking of being betrayed makes you “want to vomit.” (Actually betraying chumps, however, must be just tickety boo.) How hard it is to be you.

I’d hate for your visit to Chump Nation to be for naught, as you wanted advice and all, so here’s some:

Regular pap smears.

Good luck.

This one ran previously, but I thought as we’ve been discussing winning the sparkly turd lately, CN could use a primer on what that looks like.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I hope EVERY cheater and the fuckers who cheated with them ALL get cheated on .

    I have no idea how they can live with themselves

    Absolute fucking scumbags

    That’s better !

    • It would be a big disappointment for me if neither ex nor Schmoopie ever cheat on each other. They are both cheaters and APs who tore two families apart. Neither one deserves the fidelity of the other but I fear they might both be getting too old and saggy for another go around. Maybe I can at least hope they fear being cheated on what with ex out of town so much for his job. Unfortunately, Schmoopie probably really does think she’s that special and ex is good at presenting himself as the type of guy who wouldn’t do that. I should know. Sigh.

      • I have this fear

        My STBX promised me every day he would never cheat ( I had it happen to me in my 20’s with my BF and my sister ! ) I never had a serious relationship for 6 years after that happened until i met him . It took me years to trust him but i fell in love and trusted him deeply .

        On D day his exact words were ” Look Karen i told you i’d never cheat and I’ve been cheating on your for months you were just to stupid to see it ”

        I said how can she trust you ? How can you trust her if she does it with you she will do it to you he just said no way will she do that i love her and she loves me .

        I hope she fucks him over big style 🙂

        • I’m so sorry about this. Hang in there. Keep active in CN. It can only get better from here.

        • What is wrong with these evil shits?
          I had one like this.
          Your ex clearly gets off on deception.
          Pathetic soit !
          I’m so angry about this. Because no matter what is said, they take decent people and give them a life time of trust issues and often relationship issues. And I think that is wicked. And it hurts cause there is no real way to pay them back (they need extermination).
          Just shit on top of shit!
          So angry reading your story!
          I want to beat him for you and I don’t even know you. How dare he!
          Hugs to you. Wish I could undo it all. Wish I could undo it all for all of us.

      • The best thing in the world is knowing the two disordered are still together. As my therapist said, “You have all the evidence you need.”

        Our fears a chumps have been conquered. We chose ourselves. After winning the pick me (humiliation) dance for years. the OW gets to keep the prize; no longer your circus.

        Nanthony has to monitor his phone, get anxious EVERY SINGLE TIME he leaves the house unattended, and is jealous of time spent with his own children.

        That gives the Limited the ultimate power, one he uses to keep HER off balance knowing she was his last and final pit stop that landed him the divorce HE never filed for despite wanting it. That’s a burden plus 1000 she has to live up to daily.

        Not only is she the holder of maintaining his pedestal, she knows his adult children also believe he’s worthy of much more despite his lack of character. After five years he’s still keeping her in place which entails proving she’s worthy. Number 19 lives in fear.

    • ” hope EVERY cheater and the fuckers who cheated with them ALL get cheated on .” They do.

      Dont worry – you can trust me. I know you’ve seen me do it. BUt you’re special. I wouldn’t do it to you….”

    • My cheater had teh Sadz because it turned out that Schmoopie was cheating on him at the same time he was cheating on me. She moved out 6 months after they got married (about 7 months after the divorce was final and 2 months after I moved out of the marital home).

      Interestingly enough, she was telling everyone that CheaterX was cheating on her by seeing me. I learned of this from a mutual acquaintance. I laughed and asked said acquaintance why would I ever want to be with CheaterX once I found out he was a liar–and also stupid enough to get involved with a loser like Schmoopie.

      By the way, I didn’t bother to respond to CheaterX. Not my circus, not my monkey.

    • Indeed they do. My ex married he OW 5 months after I moved out, it has been 4 years since my DDay and now I hear she is already fucking one of the married men in our neighborhood.

    • haha, well I know one who did-with me. Here’s the truthscoop-he was married and cheating on his wife and she was married and cheating on her hubby. He left his wife and moved in with the cheatergal in her joint tenancy home, as her hubby had moved out. Then hubby makes the house sold cuz he didn’t particularly like cheater wifey living in his house with cheater boyfriend and his two kiddos. She buys another identical house. Time passes, cheater wify never divorces sick old chump husband on advice of cheater boyfriend-“Stick it out he’s old and sick and he will die and you will inherit everything.” She did stick out waiting five years for hubby to die. Then, me, know none of this, only that cheater guy was single, “divorced” he said, “renter” he said, starts cheating with me. And there you have it. I have grieved over being used and lied to for the 4 years, since I ended it. Cheater guy died June 24, 2019. Cheater gal is still in huge house she bought to house cheater guy, his sons and all his tools. No more $3000.00 per month from cheater guy’s 1/2 of his ex-wife’s teacher pension. No more of his $2200. per month social security check. No more of any income from his stock broker biz. No more him. But she still has one thing-his 33 year old son-a failure to launch kiddo. And a house underwater by $150,000-cuz she bought it in 2007-in Illinois. That is a true dramakarma story. boohoo.

      • dannismith–Most of the time, the OW don’t get sympathy here, but there are major exceptions and yours is one.

        The majority of APs know that they’re APs. They know that their lover is married. They’re okay with that, or they don’t do due diligence when the Cheater gives them the sad story about how they’ve filed for divorce but it hasn’t gone through yet (Note to U.S. Chumps–most states have an online database for court cases. You can look up if someone’s filed for divorce).

        But some APs are clueless that they are APs. This happened with a man I know. He’d been dating a woman for over a year. She could never meet on weekends–sick parents, she said, who needed her care. He respected her for taking care of her parents. She had her own career, and she insisted she split the tab at restaurants. They (or rather he) started talking about moving in together. She initially thought this was great but as they started to look at different places, she started to become more distant. Then one day he happened to notice that her driver’s license had a different last name than her credit card. He’d never really seen/noticed her driver’s license because he never went into her wallet. He just happened to catch a glimpse of it when she pulled out her credit card. He googled her first name with the new last name and discovered she was married and the picture of her niece was really the picture of her daughter.

        He felt sick. Totally destroyed. He’s still in therapy about it, and it’s been over a year. Unknowing APs are just as much victims as the poor, faithful spouse.

      • This made my week! Thank you Chump Lady for the best advice ever given!

    • I love Chump Lady for sending this right to the OW. I was so angry ????!!!

    • Best reply ever! God I love you CL!! I so needed this today. I was chumped again by the 3rd sparkly turd….I guess 3x a charm. He decided that the 24 yr old co-worker/nanny was better (mind you, he’s 50). Thank goodness I didn’t marry this fucktwit.

    • So OW has a sadz. Doesn’t know what to do. Knows all her friends will laugh at her for being so stupid and comes to a chump support site for support. You have to wonder whether the lack of realisation for consequences came before or after. How did she really think this was going to play? That we would all welcome her into our midst with open arms?
      You blew up two families to get your rocks off. Whatever consequences happen, you both absolutely deserve. You will find nothing sympathy here. Go polish that turd you won.

      • Yep, such a sadz. And where was even one skerrick of, I wonder if his ex wife is okay after I took my number in the queue? Empathy overload, for sure!

  • This is a side note…I got validation yesterday.

    My X married Ms Piggy and the kids (who have formed an alliance ) were all hanging out this weekend.

    Anyway -Sinister Minister and his AF have never once admitted to anything in appropriate.

    In fact, their wedding website ( I shit you not ) talks about how their friendship blossomed over the years and led to this new beginning. Ick.

    My oldest and her oldest were in the car with my X. He got out to run an errand and left his phone behind.

    A message popped up from his Fiancé “ Happy 8 Year Anniversary “.

    AS my daughter pointed out – we haven’t been appart that long.

    Glad to finally get some validation. Cheaters Suck.

    This woman is delusional. Karma is a bitch. People don’t change. Next!!!

    • Awesome occurrence! It’s always great when the kids get that external reinforcement of what happened, because even though it is tough for them, it reinforces the truth of what really happened without you having to say a word. I feel for her, but I see the good in it overall too.

  • “… clinging to the facade of your shitty relationship, to prove that [fill in the blanks] was worth it?“
    Will repeat that to myself over and over in the years to come. The longer my ex-deartrustedfriend is with Mr Decade of Paid Sex With Allsorts (not an OW in the marriage, but she’s So Understanding of Quests for Exuberant Aliveness she jumped on board soon after the D day bomb), the more I will be sure it’s descended into utter utter shittiness. But neither of them will be able to admit it publicly. For her, too many lost friends to say I told you so. For him, she’s the proof he’s Magnificent.

  • The stupid, it burns.

    Hey, did anyone catch today’s Ask Amy column at WaPo? Someone brought up ChumpLady in the comments. Eventually the Esther Perels and Tim Tedders of the world will be brought low.

    • Seriously, I don’t understand why anyone would knowingly sign up for that. You really can’t fix stupid.

  • A perfect reminder as I recently perfomed (and lost) a magnificent pick me dance.

  • AHHHH I needed to read this today.

    Can add fretting about dickhead ex cheating on her to the list of things I know OW (should really be girl… she’s not old enough to be considered a woman) has the sadz about:

    – Spending her whole life (realistically their relationship is doomed so just whatever time they’re together) trying to live up to me. I was ex’s first love and she worshipped the ground I walked on until shiny teenage playthings became an attractive prospect.

    – Knowing that she wasn’t special enough for dickhead ex to leave me for, it took me kicking her arse out for that

    -Knowing dickhead ex has downgraded (she admitted I make her feel insecure about her life.)

    – The fact that she now has to deal with all the shiny sparkly turd nonsense, the mental health problems, the dependency and addictions. They were carefully hidden from her during the affair and now they’re all hers.


      • I’m doing alright- thank you so much! Would have been wedding date on Friday that has messed up my fragile little equilibrium but I know it’s all going to feel much better from the other side.


        • Yes, I hear you about the difficulty of weathering important dates. I’m in the summer season of many anniversaries – our own 21st wedding anniversary (though I think wasn’t legal yet in 1998, we stillhad a big ceremony), followed shortly thereafter by the day that Cheater began affair #2 last year, etc. I hope at least that you don’t have many financial & child custody entanglements with your Cheater – that’s part of what I’m facing right now, and it’s tough. Keep being mighty, sister!

    • Sending you both big long-distance Congratulations on Surviving What Would Have bBeen Your Anniversary hugs. ????????????

    • Sending you both big long-distance Congratulations on Surviving What Would Have Been Your Anniversary hugs. ????????????

  • “Dung beetle has concerns about partner’s hygiene”: alert the media. SMDH

  • I have no sympathy for her a all. She deserves to be cheated on. Can’t imagine she wants sympathy.

  • Omg YES!!! Right on target

    My ex of 20 years lives with his OW. I hope she freaking worries and wonders every damn day. She insinuated herself into my family while fucking my husband.
    May she contract HPV and chlamydia

  • “Dear Chump Lady, I am probably the biggest chump of all…”

    Ahahahaa… no. An idiot, sure – but not a chump.

  • I know this article is a repeat but I did enjoy the smack down once again!

    The entitlement is strong on this one!

    • Thank you so much, Chump Lady! I needed to read this. I was served a huuuuuuuge shit sandwich today: I attended a funeral this afternoon, where I had to sit (almost) next to my husbands ladylove.
      Since it was a funeral, I was allowed to cry. And I did – not only was I mouring the deceased father of our friend, but also my marriage and family life.

  • Ohhhhh, Tracy, when I saw the title of this I knew so was in store for a great read!!!! THANKS!

  • “I obviously don’t trust him and a lot of times can’t stop thinking about his past. It makes me want to vomit. I am terrified he will cheat on me — he said he won’t of course.”

    Pointing and laughing. I hope she got a scorching case of herpes from him and has regular flare-ups to this day.

  • Malignant entitlement. Great term. I want to brand it on his forehead.
    My fuckwad called it his “very human error”.
    Call it by its proper name.

    • “Very human error”. I love how they do this. Anoint themselves as “human” in a way that implies praise for themselves and casts shame on anyone holding them to account. After all, this claim suggests that they’re realistic and honest, even authentic and humble, not pompous and perfectionist like you. As though there are two categories: god-like divinity and normal humanity. And the evil of infidelity is just an “error” that proves they aren’t divine, while any standard better than evil simply proves that you think you are.

      No. The dividing line in question is between “human” and animal – it has nothing to do with the divine. It’s pompous to even imply it might.

      Other than highly social animals, an animal has little to no sense of meaning or beauty in connection, no sense of meaning in others. It has no concept of honor or of truth. It has no power of reason to guide its decisions. It is the capacity for such intangibles that defines and distinguishes “human” from other animals. But even animals have bonds of loyalty and laws of individual and group behaviour they will not break.

      So the question really isn’t whether the cheater rose to the level of “human” in their errors, but whether they even fully qualify as social animals.

      • I love how you ended that TKO

        I often find myself taking a step back and looking at my ex husbands way of working against or around all the social networks in his life.
        When we got divorced, despite him excluding me from family and friends for 20 years, many friends and family popped out of the woodwork with genuine support for me. I had unknowingly earned support and loyalty from people over the years I’d gone out of my way for when I could. I was almost as surprised as my abusive ex. He raged against the unfairness of it all. I smirked in astonishment. He had to force his shark-filled family to take him in through threats and manipulation. He has never been on anyone’s “team” or side. Not even mine.

        He thought he was leaving me high and dry and utterly alone with two kids and a severe chronic illness, no money. But as soon as I left him, my phone was lighting up with texts from family and friends I hadn’t been able to talk to for years.

        It really makes me think about what it means to BE a social animal, on a larger scale (looking at humanity as a whole). Anti social behavior for a social animal- it doesn’t work. It’s not just about how you treat your romantic partner. It’s also about how you treat your family, friends, co workers. How even though my ex thought he had a huge community around him, in fact none of them have his back because he believes in screwing over anyone to get what he wants (it’s actually a part of his religious beliefs- I didn’t know that until we’d been married almost 10 years, yes- he hid his true religion from me because he had a FULL double life).
        Anyway, so yes, I wonder if my ex can even qualify as a social animal? He seems to be an aberration, a sick individual within the human race. Does evil, on some level, equal antisocial? These are things I wonder about as I get more and more meh. 4 years out from divorce ????. Best decision I ever ever made.

        • I do believe in supernatural evil, but I think it settles it’s self into physical reality very largely in the form of antisocial disorders. I do think these represent evil. They certainly produce evil acts. After all, what evil act, large or small, isn’t essentially about self trumping other? And conversely what about good and love isn’t essentially about self being other? That is, you likely couldn’t have done what your ex did to you without it actually hurting you. And yet he could do all manner of harm unto you, your children, and so on, and always feel he was “net gaining” in the process.

  • Helpful advice she wouldn’t follow, because…she is who she is.

    Face the truth about yourself, and him, divorce him, then devote yourself to learning and practicing decent values.

    Why she won’t? Because the first thing she’d have to do is stop excusing what she did (“only one” affair), and admit what she did and what that indicates.

  • Hahaha I love these letters from clueless OWs. It is so validating to see beneath the curtain of “look how perfect our life is” social media posts to what really lies beneath the facade. I got a couple of phone calls from my ex’s live-in former stripper gf (now fiance) who is stripper gf #3 or 4 (that I know of) post DDay2. She told me all about how he was drunk all the time, beat her up on occasion, and was cheating on her with (SURPRISE!!) yet more strippers. Then she wanted to know if I ever missed him and wanted him back. Um….let me think about this for a minute. Drunk all the time. Violent. More strippers. Added to the emotional abuse, porn addiction, lying, stealing, and other general asshole narc behaviors I finally got out of my life? Nope. I’m good. You’re the dancer, honey, not me. You’ll have to find someone else to compete with, I’m sitting this one out permanently. 😀 😀 😀

    • Beth,
      I just have to say( again), I always love your winning smile.
      It looks so good on you!

    • Beth- The thought of the OW calling sounds creepy yet gratifying. To get confirmation that their life is not rainbows and lollipops after all. I sometimes wonder if I would be willing to listen/talk if I received a call. I would think pride would keep any AP from calling the ex spouse; especially to tell you how awful things are.

      • Is she an OW? Or simply Stripper #3 he has slept with since DDay/separation?

        If OW – then hahahaha. If Stripper #3 who thought she found an honest lonely man, I feel a little sorry for her because she is so dumb.

        • *Technically* she was an OW because she started banging him and moved in with him while we were separated but still married but she was not the one who was his OW on DDay#2. I don’t have any problem with/anger toward her as long as she leaves my kids alone. She is very concerned about her status since he is supporting her and they’re still not married so she occasionally takes it in her head to cause trouble with my (adult) kids in hopes, I think, that their dad will disinherit them. That’s all in her little pea brain since I’m sure by the time she’s done with him there won’t be anything left for them to inherit. She definitely knew he wasn’t an “honest, lonely man” since he had been banging her coworkers as well as her in the back of the family minivan for years.

          • What a train wreck. Glad you are mostly free of him and her. I really hate parents who use money to control their kids.

  • No you’re not a chump, just a delusional, entitled idiot loser who has it coming. Thank you for giving all of us chumps a front row seat. I love a good Karma story. Somebody please pass the popcorn.

  • I’m sort of sorry this is a repost, because I wish this idiot was currently choking on CL’s response, but here’s hoping there are a few OWs here looking for some validation.

    I get great satisfaction thinking about how this is most likely the OW (I’ll call her Carmella because REASONS) in my life story is currently spending her Happily Ever After with my ex (Dickturd).

    She was with him for 4 years of my marriage to him. She was also around for 3 other pigs he cheated on her while he was cheating on me. She actually had the audacity to GO AFTER the OOW (Other Other Women??) and tell them to get away from HER BOYFRIEND. Her MARRIED BOYFRIEND!!!

    Well, he moved in with her pretty much right after D-Day. And my poor kid has to go there to see Dickturd. But, things have changed. Dickturd’s computer (where lots of sexting was going on) is now in the living room where everyone can see what he is doing. His phone, once permanently attached to his pants pocket, is laying on the coffee table FACE UP. Instead of “working late”, he’s home by 6 every night.

    All this must be an effort to “prove” he’s on the up and up to her. Ha. He cheated on her WHILE they were cheating on me. He had 11 APs during our marriage. There is no way in hell he’s not at least looking for new supply behind her back.

    And it’s her birthday today. I hope she ends up with the herpes he’s sported on his upper lip for the past 10 years. And no, I didn’t get it.

    • What a craptacular collection of dysfunctional, entitled, delusional, a-holes. Even on the most simplistic of levels, how do you justify such disgusting behavior. Their stupidity and audacity is mind boggling. Phoenix, I’m so happy you escaped that cluster fuck.

  • I was recently thinking about how much work it takes to maintain the “limerance” phase of a relationship, the “feeling in love in a way that you have never felt before.” It is a vortex of time suckage in your life. At the time, you think it’s worth the sacrifice of your family and friends to be with the “most amazing person ever,” while sinking into this “love you have never felt in your life before.” You put all sorts of effort into being your “best self”. And, then you lose even more time thinking about the other person in the moments that you are not actually with them, concocting even more fantasies.

    Welcome to affair-la-la-land.

    Love this dosage of reality that CL has provided.

    Real love is the serenity you feel with someone when you can just sit together, make-up free, having forgotten to shave your legs that day, saying something or nothing at all, but all the while not feeling for a moment that any of it is going to make him leave. It just doesn’t cross your mind, and why should it? Real love is healthy. Real love is accepting. But, real love also carries expectations. Expectations that you are a decent and a respectful person who understands that it’s important to treat someone with integrity. You aren’t going to be perfect; you’ll sometimes blow up, jump to conclusions, get super moody PMS, feel disappointment and occasional resentment. But, you have honour. You honour your relationship despite the ups and downs.

    I cannot imagine how that level of comfort and intimacy can ever truly be achieved in an affair relationship, which means that you are never living with peace of mind. That’s a horrible existence.

    Now, more than ever, I value peace of mind. I will not sacrifice it for anything. If I cannot feel peace of mind with someone, it’s a sign that I need to move on. Never again will I allow myself to be positioned with someone who causes me constant doubt and anxiety. Never again will I allow myself to be with someone who doesn’t express emotions, doesn’t talk things out, doesn’t show initiative in the relationship.

    Envy the other relationship? Envy what? No thanks.

    • About a year and a half ago I had to fly to Colombia to sell the land I bought to build our dream house on. I ended up staying in my STBXW’s apartment for a couple of days while filing government paperwork in Bogota. Months later she told me that she felt “very calm and peaceful” while I was there.

      I can’t imagine how chaotic and out of control her life must be like now. I am sure your EX’s life is the same. Peace of mind and an intact moral compass is a treasure more precious than diamonds or gold.

      • I’ve often thought, while going through the divorce and carving up of the family, “This is really hard, but it would be so much harder if *I* was the person who’d had the affair and destroyed two families”. As hard as it was, if I’d been dealing with the guilt on top of the annihilation of self, financial insecurity, and kids’ mental issues, I’m not sure I would have survived.

        I don’t really think cheaters suffer from lack of “peace of mind” because they don’t realize their moral compass has become demagnetized, but for normal people it’s a great balm.

        • Do you think the cheaters feel guilt? Mine does not appear to. He laughs it up and brags to everyone how he is a better person now. He is defiant and openly proclaims he did nothing wrong. The delusion is strong in this one and I get it cause how would you live with yourself otherwise. He has convinced himself that what he did was a good thing – he only ever showed emotion when I said he hurt his kids (he pushed back hard on that notion:). I think guilt occurs in people that are kind and thoughtful – my cheater is neither of those.

          • I don’t think they feel guilt. Guilt would imply they did something wrong. If there is ever a molecule of guilt, they quickly squash it by reminding themselves of how awful their spouse is/was, how ANYBODY in their shoes would have done the same thing.

            Mind only felt sorry for himself, because I insisted he give up the OW (and the other OWs, and the hookers, and the Craigslist hookups) during my 2 year dance. What that probably means is that he had to be even more secretive than he already was. Such a headache! Poor guy. Allow me to rub your temples. Oh, never mind. Not my job anymore.

          • Before D-Day, the Dickhead sent me an email blathering on about how we shouldn’t haven’t to change for each other, and neither one of us is a bad person..blah, blah, blah. I can just picture him standing there all puffed-up and being all righteous. He felt totally justified in what he was doing. It wasn’t until after D-Day that his righteous act fell flat with me.

            There’s no guilt. What I though could have been guilt was an act to placate me so I wouldn’t get a separate lawyer and go all scorched earth. I didn’t get a lawyer but that fucking earth was burnt and left smoking.

          • No guilt or empathy. That’s how they got into the mess to begin with. They are masters at rationalization and justifications–a victim mentality. Sure some are con men trying to rack up the numbers of the OW/OM they can bang. I believe the serial adulterer in my life, Dr. Cheaterpants, truly thought he deserved to pursue his own happiness–poor, poor him. Of course chumps know they’ve done this at the expense of their marriage/partnership, the kids, the home life, pets, extended family and friends, etc….

            Affairs are about escapism and fantasy, not twu wuv with a soulmate schmoopie. When the excitement wears off and people are just being human, the boring and mundane creeps back in.

            I thought Dr. Cheaterpants would come to his senses but instead I came to mine. I have no doubt he’s blaming me for the loss of his home and the love and respect of his kids. He will never have the ability to hold the mirror up and see his own fault is where the blame should be.

    • Thank you for writing this. You have given me a clear encapsulation of all that was wrong with my marriage to STBXH — and a vision of the relationship I should try to achieve someday (if I decide I do want to be partnered again).

    • Exactly. It had been a long time since I had had that peace of mind in my marriage. The sad thing is that I don’t think ex did either but he didn’t need to feel that way as I didn’t spend all of my time judging his imperfections. He was judging himself and me and projecting his judginess on to me.

    • OptionNoMore, this is absolutely perfect! Copying to my ever-growing list of “Tips for Healthy Relationships.”

  • Dear Dumb Bunny DB,

    I am sure it will be OK. Don’t worry about anything.


    Chump Nation

    • ^^^THIS^^^

      Obvs he won’t cheat, the weekend stripper was just “someone to talk to”. AND, like, he told you about all of the others, so you KNOW you can trust him, because honesty!
      Just make him a really nice dinner, (I read having it “waiting for him” when he comes home is the trick! 🙂 and wear something sexy to bed.
      Oh, and don’t ask too many questions-they hate that. Trust! And smile a lot. He picked you!
      Ps: have you tried essential oils?

      • My EX pastor said I should put toothpaste on XH’s toothbrush to show my XH that I was thinking of him while I was brushing my teeth before bed. This is one of many reasons the pastor is a X too!

        • WTF? Like you can control someone’s capacity for sexual sin by helping them out with oral hygiene? My priest told me point blank that his sins were his own and had nothing to do with me. I can’t imagine how much cognitive dissonance your pastor produced by screwing with your brain like that. Yikes. I am so sorry that happened to you. It is bad enough when the ceater acts like you weren’y good enough–but your spiritual advisor really should know better. Sin, like frequent flyer miles, is NON-TRANSFERABLE.

          • Sin or no sin- suggesting that a woman put toothpaste on a grown man’s toothbrush for him, after he fucked strangers- as an “act of thoughtfulness”, is wildly perverse.
            Like RIC on meth.

            • That would have just given my ex more proof that I was mothering him so of course he had to cheat because who wants to have sex with his mother.

          • jojobee, thanks for everything you said. You are on point with my X pastor screwing with my brain. I never told anyone anything my X did to me for years and years. When I caught my X out on a date with a newly divorced whore, I went to my X pastor the next morning. I was devastated. The first question my X pastor said to me was, “How often do you have sex?” I said about once a week. He then said, “XYZ (his wife) never denies me sex whenever I want it.” Okay. What do I say to that? Yes, the “Christian” pastor screwed with my brain by lying to me three times and continually took the side of my XH, even though he denies he did. He courted the adulterer while telling me that I “needed to forgive”. You are very lucky/blessed to have a priest tell you that you are not responsible for your H’s sins. According to my X pastor, I was to blame because I didn’t do enough for him and that I didn’t “understand” his need to have close “female friends” due to him “only feeling comfortable around females” due to his upbringing. My brain was spinning for well over a year due to all this spiritual abuse. I can now see why people no longer go to church.

        • I would have put something on his toothbrush alright, something that came in a package with a skull and crossbones warning & the number for Poison Control.

  • If she wants to see her future, I suggest she look at X’s past. When OW replaced the wife, she left a vacancy, one that cheater has probably already filled. DB, you are just one more fool to be manipulated, in what is probably a long history of deception.

    On a more somber note, if anyone doubts what evil acts a cheater and his OW are capable of committing, I suggest looking no further than Connecticut. The news is everywhere about a cheater, who clearly killed his wife (and the mother of his 5 children), but who thinks he is too smart to get caught. Cheater has been arrested only for evidence tampering so far because law enforcement has not yet been able to locate the poor wife’s body. Arrested with him, of course, was OW, who was seen helping cheater dispose of garbage bags containing evidence of the murder.

    Sadly, the wife had been telling anyone who would listen about her psychopath husband. It appears she also did everything in her power to get away from cheater. She was a wealthy woman, with lots of support, and he still murdered her! Cheater’s actions post-separation were so concerning that wife’s friends/family were at the police station within hours of her disappearance. Apparently, they had discussed what to do if she suddenly went missing and their actions may be what allows the police to solve this crime.

    Of course, his absolute sleaze ball of a lawyer (the same lawyer who claims to be a “civil rights” lawyer because he represents Alex Jones) gleefully continues to slander the poor dead woman while his psychopathic client smirks for the camera. Lawyer has made outrageous and malicious false claims about the poor dead woman, including the claim that wife staged her own murder and abandoned the very children she loved more than life itself!

    Cheater has even claimed his due process rights have been violated because “missing” wife did not appear at a divorce hearing held after cheater slaughtered her in her own home. Bet it was all the wife’s lawyer could do to keep from screaming at the hearing,”She’s missing because you killed her, asshole!”

    A court order bars cheater AND his lawyer from communicating with OW “directly or indirectly”. This order has not stopped cheater’s slimy lawyer from announcing to the press that cheater still loves OW and, of course, OW can provide cheater an alibi. The catch? He wants the prosecutor to give OW immunity from prosecution so she can tell everyone “the truth.” Because every innocent person needs immunity from prosecution before telling the truth, right? Lawyer is essentially love bombing OW in a very public forum because, heaven forbid that she begin (or continue) to cooperate with the police.

    It must be hell for the poor woman’s family, the same family that had been financing cheater’s high flying parasitic lifestyle for years. Kill your wife and then smile for the cameras- that is who malignant narcissists are. They change for no one.

    DB, you aren’t anything special and the “prize” you have stolen will most certainly be stolen from you. If I were you, I would also be worried about what other devious/illegal activities this prize has dragged you into. If you think his cheating is confined to infidelity, you are in for a very rude awakening! You deserve every betrayal that is coming your way.

    • Thanks, Violet.

      Did I read about this case? Her blood was on the garbage bags that cheater and ow threw in the dumpster, all on video?

      Yah, confession from the ow is the ticket here in getting a conviction. Someone (another ow) needs to side up to her, whisper in her ear, that she also was an ow (surely several exist). I think this is all that needs be done, then ow will sing.

      Yah, the cheater is a true piece of shit. Evil manifested. Please keep us posted. Oh yeah, one more thing: I really hope the prosecuting attorney is a woman.

      • Prosecutors have gone forward without a body in the past….I think whether they find a body or not they’ll prosecute. Too much evidence points towards the ex.

    • Ahhh.. when I asked my therapist how they can sit right there with me and her ‘ ‘lover’s wife and not show a hint of guilt – meant by ‘ they’re just wired differently’!!
      Not surprised a bit!

    • I live in CT and this is the Jennifer Dulos case. He killed her or had her killed, we all know it. Unless they find her body, the only hope we have of a conviction is if the OW grows a conscience (doubtful) and spills the beans on him. Law enforcement needs to lean on the OW HARD. She’s already showing cracks. And that attorney who represents him is a POS.

    • While out on bail, Dulos failed to appear in court on January 28, 2020, for an emergency bond hearing. He was found in an unresponsive state by police at his home in Farmington, having poisoned himself with carbon monoxide by running a vacuum-cleaner hose from the exhaust pipe of his SUV into the interior of the car while it was parked in his garage.[29][30][31][32] Initially, it was reported by some news outlets that Fotis had been found dead, but responders had performed CPR and restored a faint pulse.[33] They transported him by ambulance to UConn Medical Center in Farmington, and from there he was airlifted to Jacobi Medical Center in The Bronx to undergo hyperbaric oxygen therapy.[33][34] Fotis’ five children visited him at the medical center before he was taken off life support. This marked the first time they had seen their father since he was accused of murdering their mother.[35]

      Fotis was pronounced dead at Jacobi Medical Center on January 30, 2020.[36][37] He was 52 years old. He had left a suicide note in his car that read, “I refuse to spend even an hour more in jail for something I had NOTHING to do with”.

      In the police report, it states that Fotis’ new girlfriend, Anna Curry, was at his home the morning of his suicide. They had planned to drive to the courthouse in Stamford together, but Fotis said that they should drive separately. On the way to the courthouse, Curry received a call from Pattis asking where his client was. She told him that they were driving separately, but the lawyer informed her that Fotis’ GPS tracker showed that he was still at home, at which point Curry realized that he must have done something to harm himself and asked Pattis to call 9-1-1.[38]

      In May 2021, a domestic violence bill – so-called “Jennifers’ Law” – received near unanimous support in the Connecticut State Senate.[41] The proposed law is named after two victims of domestic violence in Connecticut, both named Jennifer. In 2019, Jennifer Dulos disappeared from New Canaan, Connecticut; her estranged husband, Fotis Dulos, was charged, among others, with her murder. In January 2020, Fotis Dulos committed suicide. In 2007, Jennifer Magnano was murdered by her husband, Scott Magnano, in Terryville, Connecticut. Scott Magnano committed suicide immediately after murdering his wife, Jennifer, in front of their three children.[42] On June 28, 2021, Governor Ned Lamont signed the bill into law.[43]

  • This is why I refer to the hoeworker of my STBXH as the “Dumpster C***”. Cheaters themselves are the home wreckers and should be labeled accordingly.
    She texts me constantly when she knows Fuckwit and I are meeting for prenatal child support and divorce matters. It was only a matter of time for him and her to find out her new name.
    Gee, you dont know if he is actually meeting with me or someone else? That’s something I can relate to. But frankly, I dont care. They will do to each other exactly what they have done to others.

  • I recall this letter & I’m still amazed that these OW
    have the gall to post on this site. They are not chumps.
    They are selfish low class women/men who deserve
    to be cheated on. Did they care about the wife & children in the cheaters life? No they didn’t.
    Delusional entitled fuckwits who deserve everything
    that’s coming to them! Fuck off DB..

    • True that, Kathleen! It’s hard to not see cheaters for what they are, even close friends that I know cheated. Puts them in an entirely different light.

  • Dance bitch dance!!! We all know u don’t want to put ur dance shoes away! Keep eating ur kibbles.

    Chumps have the ability to leave the dance floor and watch while u twist ur ankle performing the disordered dance. It’s great! I give it a narc filled 10 out of 10! Fame! I am going to live forever!

  • I’m so glad to know she had the balls to come her and get her ass handed to her…

  • My exhole did have his AP cheat on him, so he left her/she left him. Not sure which. Now he is dating a woman whose exhusband cheater on HER. What in the hell would possess a woman to go right back into a situation where they will likely get cheated on again?? She didn’t learn the lesson the first time? She wants to show herself that she is sparkly enough to win a turd, even if it’s a different turd? I don’t get being desperate enough for company that you would knowingly date a cheater.

    Well, unless it’s the big house, acreage, and sparkly cars that she’s really interested in. I guess there’s that shit, if that’s what is important to you.

  • I have no sympathy for you. You went into the relationship knowing what a piece of crap he was. You aren’t any better either. Neither one of you considered your spouse. You got what you deserve and yes he’ll cheat on you and you’ll cheat on him. Just wait and see who cheats first.

  • (music by Whitney Houston, lyrics by DB)

    I suspect betrayal is my future
    He tells me that I am number eight
    Can’t believe he’d ever do the same to me
    But we have chemistry, which makes it … easier?
    Let his stripper’s laughter remind me what’s in store for me

    I was once a cheater in my own right
    Had no choice, we’d simply grown apart
    Felt no need to cultivate what I’d begun
    So at year twenty-one
    Fucked a married man and said “I’m done”

    Now I sit and contemplate
    Whether he’ll hook up with an old classmate
    If he lies and cheats on me
    I might contract an STD
    I know he likes to victimize
    I just never thought *I’D* be the prize

    Because the greatest chump of all just happens to be me
    I am the greatest chump of all — don’t you agree?
    The greatest chump of all will live in infamy
    Give me your sympathy, I’m the greatest chump of all

    • This is beautiful. As I read it, I could hear Whitney singing it. ????

    • You’re the wind beneath my wings, UXWorld…

  • Wow, she really had the balls to write about being chumped. It is nice to see that Karma has come to call. She must really think she is special. So special that a serial cheater would automatically stop cheating. Like I always say. It takes a special kind of person to knowingly cheat with a married person. Let her enjoy her karma sandwich.

  • Thanks for sharing this letter. This reminds me that the OW will continue to go through the stress and anxiety that i once did (while I did the pick me dance). I also know of another married couple (the guy cheated on his wife and married the OW) they are still together but she is not trusting of him and gets nervous when he’s gone for too long. Who wants to subject themselves to that type of mental anguish? This is how I know something is terribly wrong with anyone who is having an affair with a married person and turns around and married them. Your signing up for eternal life of misery.

    • Yes I know two couples that started out as AP’s and neither marriage lasted. One of the marriages, the Owife went through a lot of anguish as cheater checked out not too long after they married. She hung on for dear life, 13 years. In the end he dumped her after they made a big move to another state. Found another OW. He set her up, had her arrested for DV (he was retired law enforcement so knew the ropes) and she had to move back to the original state as she was not allowed to stay in the house. Everyone was laughing at her mug shots. Moved into her mother’s tiny house while he was living with new OW in the gorgeous new home. Did she reflect and say you know what I sorta had this coming? I broke up a family and made the 1st wife feel like shit, while I was so smug. Nope. She raged on facebook how he was a narc/sociopath. He is, but she wasn’t exactly above reproach.

      • Oh & her cheater ex & OW bought a house together. The word is that relationship is on the rocks, soon to end. He may have to move back to his mother’s house as I hear this new OW is a force to be reckoned with:)
        Karma happens, may take a bit but it happens.

  • OW,
    Repeat your last four words over and over:
    “he’ll cheat on me.”

    Then go bake a devil’s food cake for him for supper.
    He obviously loves cake!

  • It’s my birthday! And a great one so far 🙂
    So how about some birthday advice? My ex was a serial cheater. He met his current fiancee 7 months after we separated and after all the d-days. The marriage was over. The fiancee knows he cheated twice (i guess all the other dozen or so times didn’t “matter” because they were strangers). She’s still choosing to be with him. What do you think– think he will cheat on her? or is she no more special than DB in the post?

    • Happy Birthday, manna!

      “The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.” I hope that answers your question. 🙂

    • Manna, serial cheaters are in it for the thrill of the chase. These are predators, always looking. That does not change. By all appearances the Limited is a good guy who plays the victim. Many women fell for it and didn’t care that he was married. However, when a healthy target was in sight he learned to craft a different story. He said he was in the PROCESS of getting a divorce while dating multiple women.

      Get as far away from caring about his new target. They NEVER stop cheating. They live for the high.

      Happy Birtyday!

    • Nobody is special to a serial cheater. All partners are replaceble. They are seen as objects to be aquired, not people to connect with. Once they aquire the object, it starts to get old. So yes, he will. Have a great bday. ????

  • If you are looking for “Sympathy”

    It’s between “Shit” and “Syphilis” in the dictionary.

    • ????????????????
      Well, everybody can go home now. You just won this thread.

  • I would love to send this to my ex husbands OW that he married is now divorced from him. Cause guess what he did the exact same thing to her as he did to me! From what I heard he cheated on her the first year they were together and 5 years later left her like he did me.

  • This was exactly what I needed to read today. They really do end up getting what they deserve in the long run. I’ve been cheater free for 2 years now, and am in a healthy realtionship with a wonderful man. Thanks ChumpNation for helping me through my Dday.

  • Chump lady you are my hero. This is a perfect response to a home wrecking idiot.

  • Has any OW/OM responded back to your email replies after you put them in place?

    Show us what it looks like!

  • Thank you Chump Lady for sharing this post today, it was perfect and your responses were glorious. I love it, although I’m very sure your response fell on DB cheater’s deaf ears. I’m still guffawing over her opening sentence, “I’m probably the biggest chump of all”. Definitely raised my eyebrows and snark.

    • right, because she threw away her husband for a cheater and now he is cheating on her.. .. shocking!!!

      That is not being a Chump.. . this is what is called KARMA

  • Okay choir, from the diaphragms so she can hear you, like we rehearsed. (Raises conductor’s baton)

    CN Choir: “Iiiiiifff he’ll cheat with youuuuu…”

    Me: Now the altos-

    Choir: “He’ll cheat ON you!”

    Me: Let’s hear it from the tenor section-

    Choir: “IF he’ll cheat WITH you!”

    Me: And the Sopranos carry it home!

    Choir: “HE WILL CHEAT ON YOU!!!!!”

    Me: Beautiful. (drops baton, exits stage right.)

  • Excellent response! Love, love, love it! Thanks for telling it like it is!

  • You know, right after DDay, when the STBX sneeringly told me that nobody would find me attractive, I thought, “Oh, yeah??” and put an ad on Craiglist under “looking for a friend” or something like that.

    OMG. The number of married men hitting on me was appalling. I took it down after one hour, I was so grossed out. All I could think about were their wives, and how those women were me. In retrospect, I wonder if I shouldn’t have saved the assholes’ missives and somehow gotten them to their wives. I know I would have appreciated it.

    For the record, yes, I look good for my age (nearly 60).

  • Thank you chump lady, this response couldn’t be better. I love this site.

  • Dear Tracy
    I was having a bad day and feeling low… it’s my sons fourth birthday tmrw… and I opened up your site and had a hearty laugh!!
    Yeah whatever shit happens!!!
    But hey I’ve never been the one to throw it.
    Integrity is worth something at the end of the day!
    Thanks for running this for all of us on the insane days.

  • Repeat after me “How you meet ’em is how you’ll leave ’em”

  • If I didn’t know better, I would swear this was written by my ex’s new supply.

  • Boooohooooohoooo! I cheated with a serial cheater, took him away from his family, fucked over my own family, and now I fear he’s gonna cheat on ME. Like, it’s different now because it’s ME! I’m super special, not like those other 7 bitches and his wife. How could I possibly have predicted this? Somebody Call a wahmbulance! I may have a seizure after I vomit over spangleturd being the douchebag I knew he was!

  • I hope this happens to my soon to be ex wife. This is the first time I’ve posted, and it does feel a little better knowing that I’m not in this alone. As a fellow chump, I’d like to share my story with you. It is a bit long, but hopefully this will help convince you that none of what happened is your fault. It’s been a very difficult journey, and has significantly altered my reality in ways I couldn’t have imagined.

    Soon to be ex wife told me on the night of March 24, 2019 that she had been having an affair for a since February of with a guy she met at a bar (also was married but separated) after driving for Uber. We had both been driving for Uber and delivering for Uber Eats for extra money to go to San Francisco for our first wedding anniversary. I don’t struggle for money, but did not want to go into debt for a vacation, so the only option was to get a second job of sorts. She did not manage to be faithful to me even during the first year. Unbeknownst to me, I continued to spend my nights and weekends delivering food to people. We finally went on our vacation, and I thought it was fun. Looking back now with more clarity, things were really off after that trip.

    She had a couple of important people in her life pass away, including her Dad, and was struggling to grieve, so she asked to go on trips alone to help clear her head. I was very reluctant, but I cannot control another human being, and wanted to help her in any way that I could. I obliged. She started small, going to a small town in the Columbia River Gorge, then another one on the coast of Oregon, then to an expensive mountain resort town in the middle of the state. I was not a fan of these trips, as I was left home for a couple of weekends in a row or within a short time frame. I liked my time alone, but it was getting to be a little much. She also began “house sitting” for what she said was a couple she had met driving Uber for them on the way back to the airport. This was supposed to pay decently and was in the middle of the week, and she could take care of a dog again (ours had recently passed). She then asked me once if she could go to Hawaii. I told her in no way was I going to be supportive of that unless we were together. So she instead went to San Diego. We have mutual friends there, and she has went to conferences before, and it had rained for what seemed like forever here. I said that trip was fine, but we would need to have a long talk about these trips in the future. She said okay.

    It turns out that the guy she was house sitting for was the AP. He has much more money than I do, is about 11 years older, and is objectively less physically (and obviously morally) attractive than I am. She would take pictures of the places she was going and send them to me (obviously he wasn’t in them), sent Facebook memories of things we did on a previous day “x” years ago, etc. She would Facetime me from his house, showing me the dog she cared for, the bed, the hot tub, the refrigerator, the outdoor fireplace, all of it. She would send me emojis letting me know she was still okay while driving passengers. Some times she was, other times she was just with him. She brought leftovers home from their dates for me to eat. I love leftovers, so I ate all of them. She would fuck him and come home and lay in bed with me and cuddle until we went to sleep. One of our favorite shows we liked to watch was “The Affair”. We would watch this show over the last year, and make comments about how morally repugnant the main characters were. She did all of this with an immense amount of planning. Each text message to me letting me know she was okay, every meal, every beer she had with him, every time she spent the weekend with him. Every time she facetimed me. Every “I love you” she said to me. Every kiss she gave me. Every meal she cooked me. She did all of this with zero shame, zero remorse, zero feeling. I was completely unaware of what was actually happening. Her stories made sense to me (grieving her father, wanting to spend time with an old dog, places she chose to go, etc). She never let a single errant text or phone call come through. Even when I would walk behind her while she was on her phone, it was only games or social media, or looking up recipes. She was good. Very good. I consider myself an intelligent person, but I am completely outclassed when it comes to intentional deception. I trusted her with everything that I had. Literally and figuratively.

    We had been together for 9 years at D-Day. She moved out into his house the morning after disclosure, and has been there ever since. I had no idea where she even lived until I was served divorce papers at my office in front of my staff. Only people who have been through this can begin to imagine the agony, the pain, the self doubt, the worldview you had about people. The mutual friends who knew about this but said nothing to me. Two of the friends were in our wedding. Crickets from them. I had to go get tested for STDs in the most embarrassing doctor trip I’ve ever had.

    On top of all of this, it’s the way she’s treated me since disclosure. She initially still texted me funny memes, screenshots of Facebook posts, asked to be my best friend, told me how deeply she loved me but wasn’t “in love” with me. She began insulting my job and the lack of money I have (though she enjoyed the free living in the condo I purchased and health insurance and car I provided. I did the “pick me” dance only for two weeks. Her moving out completely severed my idea of reconciliation, though at first, the brain just tries to fix what is broken, and you want them to pick you. You think you will “win” her back. You won’t. That old version is dead. That old version never existed, which is the biggest mindfuck out of this deal. It’s like the scene in the beginning of Chernobyl on HBO where everyone is trying to figure out what is happening and how bad it is. You then lie to yourself, telling lies about how it’s fixable. It’s not. Some wounds will never heal I’m afraid. I am still deeply in love with the person I thought she was. To be in love with a person that isn’t real is one of the tragedies of the human condition. My emotional brain and heart have not yet caught up with my rational mind. She has also not been telling people what actually happened. She uses fluttery language such as “stepped out” of our marriage, and calling the AP a “Beautiful mistake”. She tries to convince me not to tell anyone, as “it’s our business”. No. It’s my life you ruined (or at least the version I thought existed”. I will tell anyone I feel, and will spare zero details. I’m not the one who fucked up. I was a great husband and partner, and wanted to be a great father with a child we always talked about having. None of this is to be now, and it is all due to her.

    When I last saw her about six weeks ago, something looked different in her eyes. The person I loved was not inside. Even though she did not pay for the condo to live there (I asked only that she pays off her own debt), she wanted 30% of all of the equity, which was around $35,000. I told her to eat shit and immediately hired a lawyer. She also got one, and is trying to take half the equity in the home I purchased prior to marriage, and she lived in for free for nearly five years. Even if the courts decline to award her that much, the character is very much on display for the whole world to see. Being in a no fault state, there is zero chance I won’t have to write her a check in some amount. To say this is unjust is a disservice to that word, or any English equivalent.

    I have joined a running team and training for a half marathon in October, have essentially taken all of our mutual friends, go to therapy (including EMDR treatments), and have been joining Meetup Groups. To say my life is miserable is an understatement, but I do have hope that it will get better. The pain is so intense that it motivates me to do everything within my power to get better. She took my past, present, and all of my future dreams I had with her. But the future I will build will be mine alone. To have the “Ride or Die” person betray me in such a way changed me in ways I probably cannot see. But I refuse to let one rotten person ruin the rest of my life. I am a good partner, and will love again one day, though not nearly as blindly as I did this time, and perhaps not as deeply, which pains me to say. Keep moving fellow Chumpers. Worrying about them isn’t going to help you heal. Fuck them. I know it’s hard to let them go, especially if you have kids with them. I’m lucky in that way. She will be out of my life permanently and forever, even though that is difficult to contemplate right now. I’m still in that process, but in time and effort, it will be done eventually. Go No Contact. It’s the most difficult thing I’ve ever done, but you cannot separate yourself until you do. Block them from your phone. Block them from email so that it goes into Spam. It will be the best gift you can give yourself.

    Keep fighting for yourself,


    • Wow. Scary, very scary how well your stbxw hid the affair. You read about these killer spouses and how well they hid their plan to kill their spouses. The bride that pushed her groom off the cliff. The wedding photos looked so authentic, she looked happy. The guy that murdered his wife scuba diving on their honeymoon after a big wedding…..totally planned. So many other stories. No one had a clue that these people were cold blooded murderers. I think when you look back you’ll recognize some uncomfortable moments that gave you pause but you more than likely pushed out of your head. Your spouse is not grieving her father or your deceased dog…..she’s acting. She used them as an opportunity to deceive you because how on earth could you question her “grieving process”? I think you were lucky to get out of the marriage alive. I’m so sorry you are going through this hell but you’ll survive this and kudos for having the strength to block her and going no contact.

    • Ryan, am so sorry for what you are going through. Mine did the same thing for seven years. The level of deception and manipulation is mind-boggling. The planning, the messaging me when he was out of town with the OW, the FB posts about how much he loved me, the cards that said all the flowery things meant to keep me believing that he was mine alone.

      In the meantime, he was leading a double (and triple) life, was very much involved emotionally and physically with other people, mostly one.

      I know it doesn’t seem like it now, but learning about her true character NOW is a truly good thing. Thankfully you didn’t have kids with her.

      It sounds like you are doing all the right things at this point. And you are MIGHTY for only dancing for two weeks. Bravo!

    • She brought home the leftovers; a literal shit sandwich. Ryan, I hope she gets nothing in the divorce. She can’t outclass anyone. She has no class. Sorry, for your pain.

      • Same here Ryan. Mine brought home leftovers from fancy dinner with AP, marked his and hers. No shame. He got off on the pain it caused me. Hugs to you!

    • You are in good company. It’s too bad we have to here at all but we get it and we understand.

      Your STBXW sounds alot like my ex. He tried to pull that let’s be friends crap before I found out all the cheating and hookers. It’s all act to get their way, skip the consequences and keep up the image.

      Keep your counseling and stay as Gray Rock as you can for now. I promise you – No Contact is the way to peace. I’ve been NC since last September after an 18-year marriage. It’s not easy, and it can completely mess with your head but you will start to see the light and the fog will lift.

      One day and one step at a time – you can do this!

    • Sending you big hugs… stay strong… we’re with you. ???????????? I promise it gets 1000% better.

    • Ryan, so sorry about what happened to you. Sociopaths are very good at deceiving people. Based on the details you provided, you must have been pretty young when you met her. Now that you know these people exist, you will know what to look for:

      Did she even work? She couldn’t even have been doing much Uber driving. And what about the money from her “house sitting”? Did she spend your money on these trips, and by that I mean “marital money”? If she does have a paycheck, that was marital funds, not her personal allowance. You can ask to be reimbursed for whatever she spent. So start digging–what cash withdrawals correspond to her trips? And so on.

      What reciprocity was there? What did SHE give? What did SHE provide? When did SHE encourage YOU? When did you get to go alone on a fabulous trip? You want to look for someone who is a giver, not a taker. You might have been too young and too in love to notice that she was not even faithful for a year.

      Let us know how the divorce goes. I think if you have the right attorney, you might do better than you think. Go after what SHE took.

      • Hi Jackass,

        Yes, we were both 26 when we met. I had just made a huge leap to move out west with nothing in my pocket, and barely a job lined up. It was the most exciting time of my life. I met her two weeks after moving out here.

        She does work, but she had a lot of debt, student loans, and credit cards. My goal was to pay for the condo and all repairs, and allow her to use all of her money to pay down her debt. Once it was paid down, we could combine our money and purchase a better home, vacations, etc. I intentionally kept our money separate for a variety of reasons (I didn’t trust her with money). I know how stupid that sounds in hindsight, but we had different values when it comes to money. I am a saver and don’t buy things unless I actually have the money, and she thinks a credit card is an emergency fund (literally she told me this).

        I simply trusted her to be paying off her debt, but she wasn’t apparently. Since she didn’t pay rent, that was a gift I suppose. Over the years, that equates to more than $35,000.00, now she’s coming after the equity in my house because “She put her heart and soul into that place”. That phrase is literally on the settlement offer letter from her lawyer. Again, I told my lawyer to instruct her to eat shit, and we’ll see what happens in court. The problem is, she convinced me she loved me. She honestly is the most amazing cook I’ve ever met, and gave me enough love to keep me coming back. She was a lot of fun to be around most of the time, and always planned things for us to do. I’ve read a lot about narcissism and BPD lately, and that appears to be a trait that’s pretty common among this type of person. I was completely bamboozled. Some of it was age (this was my third serious relationship), and I recognize some red flags that I will never ignore or brush aside again. She had a rough childhood, and I wanted to show her what real love is, and how to treat people, etc. I’ve learned a lesson I’m paying a huge price for: Loving someone will never be enough. She doesn’t see love the same way I do. She left me for a guy who she “felt lust and love with in a way she never did with me”. WTF is that? We were married for not even a year, but had been together and lived together for 7 years prior to that. To be discarded so thoroughly for a guy with money and who she has “insane sexual chemistry” with hits you right in the balls. It makes you question yourself on a deep level. However, the more distance I get from her, the more I realize that this isn’t about me. I was deeply in love, but she doesn’t know what that is. I kept telling her throughout our relationship that “Love is an action, you choose it everyday with everything you do”. She would look at me like I was doing advanced trig.

        I won’t hear anything else until our mandatory arbitration date of 9/17. No fault divorce is bullshit. My ex, her lawyer, my lawyer, and the courts all have their hands out pointed towards me. And for what, she decided she wanted to fuck around and leave. It makes me pretty upset when I think about it. Grieving someone who doesn’t exist, that makes me angry too. Having to go to therapy because of someone else, angry. Wasting my mid 20’s to 35 on someone who didn’t ever love me infuriates me, and makes me profoundly sad. The entire thing was a ruse, not real, though it felt real to me. It’s a profound loss, and something that will leave a scar on me forever.

        • Wow Ryan, I’m sorry. So much of what you wrote resonates. Met at 19, married at 26. Friday is my 22nd anniversary. Two older kids. I also had no clue. Behavior was affectionate, no weird comments or actions, nothing until a strange occurrence 14 months ago that landed their sext on my laptop in real time. Couldn’t process what I was seeing. Had been going on for over a year. 8 months of pick me dance and then kicking him out on Dday#4. All the while he wanted me and his family. Telling me there was no contact with his howorker. Marriage counseling. 4 months no contact has done wonders. No longer feel sucker punched in the gut every day. Can eat again. Starting to see him for who he really is. Keeping busy helps. Going to the gym, cross stitching, water color class. (Doing hand crafts is extremely therapeutic). All of our social circle has turned their backs on him. You are fortunate to not have children with her. Once the divorce is final, your new life begins. I know it hurts, but what I’m starting to realize is what I’m grieving is the relationship not the person. I liked being married and had been for a long time. I’m just beginning to enjoy being alone. Hugs to you.

        • I’m catching up on my CL and I wanted to add that I also have a very similar story to you but add 3 kids. I feel exactly the same as you but because of the kids and now having to work full time, (exH has basically abandoned us), I have very little time to reinvent my life…hopefully, you will find a loyal and honest partner to share the experience of children with.

          It absolutely SUCKS to find out that years of your life were a lie. I can hardly look at photos of my kids now because of all the deception I have since found out about. They remind me of all the dreams and plans we made together, while he lied, cheated, gambled and who knows what else, behind my back. AND like yourself, I trusted him on his ‘holidays’, working away and whatever because he always told me he would never leave his family or do anything to risk loosing it, even a couple months before he ran off with a skank he apparently met only 3 weeks earlier.

          I also saw my x a couple months later and didn’t recognise his eyes. I think it’s called ‘the dead eye stare’…it’s weird. I went no contact pretty quickly but it does take time for your heart and head to make sense of this all. I still find it bamboozling and it’s been 2 years. We’ll never really understand, we can’t, because we aren’t users.

    • You are MIGHTY, and seem to be doing everything right.

      My story is similar to yours. Dday was 10 months ago, ex moved out 9 months ago, and I’ve been no contact for 8 months.

      I’ve been working on myself and my childhood wounds and now understand why I put up with his abuse for so long. I’m still working on strengthening my boundaries, but no contact has really been great.

      I know what I’ve lost…an abuser. I no longer miss the future I thought I had as I’ve accepted that that was all fake.

      Keep going on with your bad self : ) I know I’m going to learn my lesson so I don’t repeat my mistake!

    • You’re with your people here Ryan. Thank you for sharing your story. What a frickin nightmare. But you’re being amazingly mighty!

    • Ryan, I’m so sorry for what had happened to you. You’ll find there are many young chumps on this site, who were married for so short a time, before an affair ripped our lives apart. I know exactly what you are going through. My ex and I were together 9 year’s total, married just under three. I also had a condo that was all my own, and he threatened to come after. It’s been three years now and all I can say is that you’re on the right path. I focused on friends, took up pole dancing, did the therapy, and threw myself into my research. It feels like you are faking it, and then one day… It doesn’t anymore. At first I was devistated thinking that he took my chance to have kids away. Now I’m glad we never had a baby together. If you need someone to talk to, I’m happy to connect via email. Keep moving forward.

      • “It feels like you are faking it… and then one day it doesn’t anymore.”

        Thanks for that. I really needed to hear it. My ex (27 years married, 5 kids, divorced since last August) just married the OW last week. I’m reeling. But so want to believe that one day I won’t be. That I’ll just be a happy normal person…

  • At the risk of receiving the the collective anger of Chump Nation via this thread, can I say that I don’t believe that this person is a real OW?

    I could be wrong but I suspect a troll….

    All the OWs I have had the misfortune to come across, are so busy posting the happy snaps on FB, telling everyone about their ‘special relationship’, how their love was ‘meant to be’, that marrying Cheaterpants ‘was the best thing they ever did’, that they don’t have time to write in to Chumplady.

    None of them have ever, in my experience, had one shred of remorse for what they did and absolutely know that he would never cheat on them because they are ‘so special’. (sarcasm) They are capable of loving him sooo much and he is soooo happy with them that he would never stray away from their gold plated fannies.

    That’s my opinion, so let the brickbats fly – I am bracing myself….

    • No bats flying here. I have no doubt that CL gets her share of trolls. I’ve seen more than one post here in which an OW is boo-hoo-ing because she got dumped. Or even better, wah, she didn’t know she was an OW.

      These OW/OM would have to complete dumb asses in denial to not suspect or think that they would be cheated on as well. These leopards don’t change their spots. I have no doubt that there are a few out there who never cheat again but they are few and far between.

    • OW are cheaters and trolls. Many fashion themselves as a victim after the fact as reality settles in. Certainly they are entitled and believe they are special, chumps even. Guessing they fit right into the spectrum of cheaters.

    • Oh, I’ve known a cheater who has a case of the sadz over her actions and could have written something like this…perma-victim mentality. Also, I think some people just pop off emails and don’t overly investigate the place where they’re sending them. But, even it it is made up, I’m sure it captures the actual feelings of many many OW’s once they realize the prize they’ve one is a relationship full of lies and insecurity

    • Ah, but you’re confusing outward and inward behavior. Outwardly, sure, it’s all flowery facebook posts and #blessed, but, like most people doing that, they’re hiding tons of insecurity under the facade. \

  • AND. HERE. WE. GO. Chump Lady can cut right to the bone, what a woman! Thank you from the bottom of my ripped up heart, you tell it like nobody else. I can’t imagine how many lives you have actually saved by having the guts and brains to call it like it is. WHAT AN EXPMPLE. YOU have changed my life.

  • Tracy, you should illustrate this lady who thinks she is a chump decorated with all the new assholes you’ve torn her- maybe on her face!
    I heard a really good one through the grapevine today about ExH. He was a stealth turd and ran off with schmoopie, and then oh my they broke up. He has a new (pre-chump) GF now. Apparently GF started asking him about schmoop and then me and did a few lines of math and… asked more questions (because yeah, some OVERLAP maybe?) and he told her about the affair. Of course, I have no idea what will happen, but LOLZ! Oh, did he really think he could just sweep that under the carpet and just saunter around like a single divorced man oh yeah what a catch!

  • My ex ran off with his bar-room whore in 2010 (she was only interested in his salary but could drink him under the table). She also liked using our camper and all the other “nice” stuff. Once the divorce went through and he no longer had access to MY salary it was a whole new deal, even though I only earned a couple hundred dollars a month more than him AND I had both our kids living with me. About 3 years later SHE cheated on him and he was HORRIFIED! How dare she!!! And he tried to come back to me crying!!! BUT she told everyone that she HAD to leave him because she was afraid he would kill her – and on that I would back her up. But do I care? Nah!

  • Once the ex was available after blowing up our family, incredibly, the talentless EAP just never got round to leaving her husband and kids. Go figure, right? In fact, it would have likely continued as such if it wasn’t for the blow up between them when I slapped her with an AVO (for stalking my house checking where he was ????). Bad as this sounds, I sometimes regret that they didn’t actually get together. I am confident it would have been a special kind of Hell they both so richly deserved, and I not-so secretly admit I would have enjoyed every moment of their misery. Don’t forget, neither has had a personality or character transplant. They deserve each other.

  • Ohhh I love Beaker. Notice how the only thing he says is “Me.” Beaker always has all the answers. See below.

    Every “other woman” has one thing in common. In her head she thinks of herself, everything is “An Ode to Me.”

    While the normal folks listen to “Ode to Joy,” she only hears “Ode to Me” as Beaker demonstrates in his video.

    • Meep meep meep meep with a dazed, confused and alarmed expression seems like a pretty good reaction to that letter.

      • Lol. That is SO TRUE “Meep meep meep meep with a dazed, confused and alarmed expression…”

        So happy CL took down this OW who was trying to pass herself off as a chump.

  • Can’t resist adding something here…

    Shockingly I heard from OW months after all was said and done. My life in shambles, kids knocked off guard etc., etc.,etc. the stuff one would expect after a 30+ year relationship with no clues as to what was brewing underneath the surface…

    Her words were, ‘It was a mere fact that I had an affair with a married man.’ Two words slammed me against the wall in that one line…’mere fact’. That was all she thought about the destruction she left in hear wake.

    Goops, I was forgetting and thinking she was someone with integrity and a conscience because that is what my X told me about her when he told me I would probably like her too. I know those lines aren’t original but I just never thought it would happen to me and I know that isn’t original either!

    Through the grape vine I learned that ours was the 3rd marriage she has broken up. Kinda like screwing other women’s husbands is a hobby with her then, once she has ’em, she dumps ’em. Sick.

    Thanks for the topic today and a peek into another OW’s crazy, crazy mind – not a place I would want to live in or even visit again!

    • Not sure why she would contact you. Or what she was intending to convey with a mere fact statement. It is a major fact – not a mere fact. But total lack of moral fiber in her – it sounds like. Not sure why she goes around breaking up marriages – what goes around will come around for her but I hope you are at meh.

    • Yeah, my ex told me that I would just love the OW if I’d give her a chance.

      He also said he wanted us all to have a Thanksgiving dinner together and … I’m not kidding here…he in all seriousness wanted us to do a threesome.

      Meanwhile, she told me (the one time I talked to her) that she wanted to be a “resource” for me. Presumably because she’d been divorced three times, she wanted to help me through the divorce of my husband. So that she could marry him.

      Wasn’t that sooooo thoughtful?

      • What is up with these men thinking we are going to be ok with it, so ok we will want to be friends and HAVE A THREESOME. I thought mine was the only one who could be so disgustingly insane

  • Wow…this lady’s intelligence coming to a support group site goes hand in hand with how she went about destroying relationships. There are many things that is obviously going on with this DB, but the two main ones are:
    1)she has no core values, like sympathy towards other people (her ex husband, husbands ex wife, children, this site)

    2) she is seriously missing the point in all this, which is clear to everyone else who is right in their head. So, she is missing intelligence on a higher level. How can she work with people if communication goes beyond words and actions?

    I have zero tolerance for cheaters, even if I don’t know them and their story. Just like I have zero tolerance for when Jesus name is used and abused. There are so many ways to get busy with life, destroying other people’s life is not one of them.

    Chump from

  • This: “Clinging to the facade of your shitty relationship, to prove that annihilating two families was worth it? Check.”

    My ex emailed me yesterday and told me he’d married OW #2 a few days ago and that it didn’t turn out like he “hoped or expected.” I asked him what he meant by that and he said, “feels like a big mistake.” He’s doing the sad sausage thing. (His favorite channel actually.)

    But what does he do but turn around and text our adult kids “Hey I got married. Sorry I didn’t tell you. I hope you all understand. We’re going to have a party soon and celebrate. I hope you can come!”

    Two of the kids said fuck off. The others were nicer but said, “nope, not interested in the party.”

    He will keep maintaining a happy happy life in front of them, his parents, his coworkers and whoever in a pathetic attempt to convince himself that he did the right thing – but there’s no question he’s a miserable fuckwit now married to another miserable fuckwit who whines all the time about how our kids don’t like her. Um, surprise!

    All that aside, getting the news still hurt like hell.

  • She shoudl schelp her @ss on over to the Other Women section of the Love Shack forum. There, she can be consoled by other twits, and guess what? She’ll even have moderators to protect her widdle feelings. After all, it’s all the big, bad married man’s fault. He led the poor little lamb away, and OMG! He lied to her! the heel! Never mid that he lied to his BS for years…

    Ah, the irony that the magic lady parts weren’t able to convert a known cheater into a faithful husband and now he’s sleeping around.

  • “He also told me he went to a strip club when he was away for work for a month and picked up a stripper — also that she stayed with him the entire time he was there. We both divorced our spouses and are living together, but as you can probably guess it’s not good”

    nobody here feels sorry for you, but thanks for sharing this story anyway.

  • This is nearly verbatim what the ex’s (of 4 weeks) new wife (of one week-yes, he married the OW 3 weeks after our divorce and didn’t even bother to tell our 4 kids) has been saying. She makes the ex go to church 3 times a week, and he wasn’t allowed to be in our marital home that we were trying to put on the market during the divorce, if I was there. I had to do nearly everything to update and fix up the house on my own. He’s also not allowed to spend time with his kids without her. 3 of the 4 kids refuse to have anything to do with either of them- of course that’s all my fault. She is terrified he will cheat on her with me. NOT A SNOWBALLS CHANCE IN HELL!! But she does have a lot of other walking vaginas she SHOULD be worried about- absolutely mind blowing!!!

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