Chump Lady’s Conspiracy Theory on Divorce Shame
I have a theory about the origins of divorce shame. And I’ve concluded that most of this divorce shame comes from cheaters and their apologists.
Insofar as cheaters feel shame (I have my doubts about how robustly they feel shame), they feel divorce shame. People will wonder about them exactly what we fear they wonder about us — what did you do to wind up divorced? But unlike chumps, cheaters actually have a skeleton to bury.
They’ve got a damn good reason why they’re divorced — they cheated.
So, let’s avoid all the ugliness and consequences and not divorce. Narcissists care very much what other people think of them.
Which is why the majority of cheaters do not file for divorce — they eat cake, neglect, gaslight, and drive their poor chump to do it. The ones that run off for the affair partner — the clean exit affair types (IMO a minority of cheaters) — they can avoid divorce shame because they’re heading straight toward the greater glory of The Love That Was Meant to Be. It was bigger than the two of them, it could not be denied. There’s no shame when the heart wants what it wants. These are the cheaters that want to stay friends. Hey, we just weren’t working out, I fell in love with someone else. You’re over it, right?
I can’t think of a single cheater who has ever initiated a divorce simply for the pleasure of fucking around unhindered. No, these people cannot be alone. They need several suckers lined up at once.
But oddly, wanting freedom from responsibility is what the divorce shamers accuse chumps of.
Chumps neglected their station. They couldn’t forgive. They valued their independence over the welfare of their children. (Yeah, because single parenting is a big party… You can buy a lot of booze and cheese doodles on child support…)
Cheaters project their divorce shame on us — so many of them are just FURIOUS, even years later that we divorced them.
My cheater was married three times, (who knows, maybe more) — cheated on everyone. He was INCENSED that I divorced him. Dragged it out as long as he could. He was incensed his exes divorced him. Don’t you think by the third wife he would’ve connected the dots? The guy had advanced engineering degrees, but this basic logic eluded him — if you cheat, you will be found out and left. The cake disappears. Ergo — Learn to live without cake. Or stay single.
The more divorces you rack up, the harder it is to find a good sucker to take you on. You have to explain this crap away. His excuse was those women cheated on him. So let’s shame those women for being Bad Wives Who Left Him.
Cake must be awfully precious.
Imagine you have no conscience for a moment. You get all the kibbles of home, and all the kibbles of fucking around on the side. You can tell yourself each day, that despite your secret kibble sources, you’re a good person. Heck, you’d never LEAVE your spouse. You might siphon off resources. Or endanger that person with STDs. You might emotionally abuse them (kibble production cannot be threatened!) But you have the status of Family. Of normalcy. You are secure.
Some uppity chump rocks your place on the hierarchy? They presume to make demands of accountability? Shame! Shame! Back in your box!
As Dr. Simon points out in his book, shame is a very good manipulation tool for those who feel it — chumps.
I would add — shame is effective on cheaters too. They fear judgment. They care what people think of them, which is why they try to control the narrative. So put the divorce shame back where it belongs — on cheaters. Who cares who initiated the divorce — who CAUSED the divorce? Who wasn’t the full partner? And who didn’t do the hard work to repair what they broke?
Cheaters. Shame on them.
Thank you for yet another great post CL. I have been embarrassed and ashamed for years for being ‘divorced’. I do not have one friend who is divorced…just lonely old me. I had no one that I could ask advice of; I go to group parties/dinners where I’m the only one that single. To me this adds to my shame. But I have to keep remembering who CAUSED this…not me. Instead of feeling ashamed, I should feel proud of myself…for throwing his ass out to the curb. Thanks for the reminder.
The only shame I feel now, is that the affair was going on for several years and I never found out. I did suspect something in the last year or two, and found myself snooping, but somehow thought I was just being insecure, because I just couldn’t believe he was capable of that. Also, to have lived a lifetime( total of 27yrs together) and totally revealed myself to someone for so long and so intimately, and then to be tossed aside for a AP who is definitely Histrionic PD and alcoholic! He says the usual ” we grew apart” ” I did not support his work( bullshit)” and that he was “unhappy” and “that I didn’t make him feel good” as excuses for our marriage failure, when really he was being hit on hugely and went for it. I think one of the things that bothers me the most, was that I wasn’t given a choice in any of it. I didn’t know about it, he left me and I found out all of it after the fact. Now, he did ask me to “wait” and give him “time and space” and was angry when I didn’t, and filed. He also tries to control the narrative and hide the affair as well!
Mine comes to church and talks about forgiveness as a Mantra to all who will listen. He tried that on me after D day..2 years of.STIs and lies kept me sober and on task to end our 30 years together. He left a trail of deceit behind him. Now he can fool the church, his wife, our friends and whomever he wishes. The one he can’t fool is me. Do I have shame for calling the game was up? Never! I do have guilt for being fooled and trusting..I’m Working on that!
This: “…and totally revealed myself to someone for so long and so intimately, and then to be tossed aside for a AP…”
This is the part that kills me. The one person I fully revealed myself to and trusted completely left me without warning for another woman he hardly knew. And I had no choice in it… My only choice is how to live now in this new reality he forced me into…and I hope to build a d#%n good life without him.
My XW was in the minority and took the exit affair’s way out, saying I was a “youthful mistake”. For a few months I had the “where could I have done more?” guilt and also shame from being blindsided by the affair. I felt like I was this huge burden to her, and never knew at all what she wanted. She would give vague statements like I “needed to fight for her”, and not telling me exactly what she truly needed (apparently mind-reading is a part of marriage?)
I’ve gotten past that guilt for the most part, but it sometimes still comes up when I feel particularly lonely or my thoughts wander on a possible future relationship that is far from happening. It’s a day-to-day thing, and that’s how it needs to be.
My x said similar things to me, not supporting him, making him unhappy, making his life a living hell for 18 years (all unbeknownst to me) and I have really dwelled and dwelled on that, trying to evaluate how much damage I caused him. I have a guilat complex anyway, so it has been easy for me to believe everything he said right at the end. I am getting to a point however, where I can have a giggle and hope and pray that I really was all the things he said I was. He deserved it after all! 😀
I agree with you that narcissists are all about “image management.” My X after cheating and leaving a 33 year marriage for ‘true love at last’ tried once to get me to file for the divorce so that I could let him “look like the bad guy”. (A manipulative move if there ever was one.) I told him flat out, “Unlike you, I don’t live by appearances and image management, therefore this maneuver on your part won’t work. If you want a divorce, YOU will have to get it.” He eventually did. And people wondered why. If they asked I told them the truth.
That having been said, I don’t believe that many people who have serious reservations about the ease with which no fault divorce can be unilaterally obtained are “shamers.” Some of them (myself included) have deep concerns about the long term detrimental effects of divorce on children. I had the option of filing on grounds of adultery. Several things kept me from doing so or in fact filing at all. In prioritized order: The effects that it would have had on the children of the other family, the fact that it would not have made one whit of difference in the property settlement in our stated, and the fact that I was NOT going to make his cowardly exit any easier for him. (The OW in my case is still with her H after 6 years, and I don’t think she will ever do to her children what she helped do to mine. But I believe that she will eventually pay some kind of price for her callousness. Shit always eventually deteriorates and floats in some fashion or another.)
When a marriage produces children, it is no longer just a marriage; it is now a FAMILY. There are other equally important and innocent souls to be considered when contemplating the long term consequences of divorce. Having been a child psychologist for years, I have dealt professionally with the effects of divorce (especially acrimonious ones) on children. It is not pretty. Any way you slice it breaking up a family is serious business.
Should a partner be able to terminate an abusive relationship or one with a serial cheater or other personality disordered individual whose presence in the home would be worse for the children over the long term? Absolutely. But there is a “weighing” or balancing of detrimental effects that needs to be part of the decision. And the decisions needs to be made very carefully, rationally, and with due consideration to all parties involved.
Nothing about this is easy and there are no perfect solutions. Too frequently we are left with only the lesser of two evils from which to choose.
Divorce isn’t the worst thing that can happen to a child. My parents were married for sixty years, but they absolutely hated each other. Hearing (and being dragged into) their fights was not an easy thing to live with. They were both abusive — each in their own special way, but in those days my sister and I would have lived with our mother. She was just physically abusive. My father was emotionally abusive, financially abusive and a cheater. If I’d been living with my mother and my father had flaked (which he would have, because he was lazy to the bone), I would not have had to deal with him controlling me by pulling out a gun when it didn’t look as though I was going to do what he wanted (lie for him). My parents divorcing would have been a blessing to me.
I agree nothing is easy about it at all. I think it is adding insult to injury, however, when chumps face attitudes that they didn’t try hard enough — not just from judgmental people on the outside — but from cheaters themselves! As if they are entitled to an infinite amount of cake.
It’s good you could persuade yours to initiate divorce. I think many others suffer in limbo — my feeling is just pull the plug already and don’t buy the divorce shame.
CL,
I didn’t “persuade” him to do anything. I left him no option. If he wanted any “on the side cake” then dammit he could “buy it at full retail price.” And he did.
My advice to those divorced through no fault of their own and for no reason other than the simple mistake of having married an immature or dysfunctional assclown? Lose the shame! Go forth honorably, and bide your time. People will eventually recognize you for who you are. It is pretty hard to hide grace under pressure. Like I said, ” Shit always eventually deteriorates and floats in some fashion or another.”
I asked my cheater to divorce me if he wanted out. He agreed but did not seem to be in any rush. I initiated divorce soon after because a divorce attorney explained that it was legally advantageous to do so. (In at least one state, I believe, you get to stay in the house – maybe just during the length of the pending divorce, not sure – if you are the petitioner.) Just putting that out there for any chumps who may be undecided about whether or not to file first.
My cheater filed first because he thought he would be able to dictate all the terms of the divorce and force me to settle for whatever he wanted me to have – which was nothing. Of course, this was while he kept telling me he wanted to make sure I got everything I was supposed to have – but apparently he wanted to decide what it was. He had also promised, since I was not going to deny him a divorce, that we should discuss it and maybe work out some of the terms before hand. Instead, he sought to file and have me served by stealth. I found out he had filed before he could have me served, had my attorney request acceptance of served and promptly filed a counter-claim.
Of course, I had to counter-sue on the grounds of adultery which assisted me in filing a dissipation of marital assets claim (which I knew I would have to do – because that’s how well I know his behavior), which I then had to use as leverage to get him to meet financial responsbility with respect to the still dependent children. Even if you live in a no-fault state, if you are dealing with the disordered (and I am), there are still options that may be available to you in order to protect yourself as much as possible financially even if you don’t file first.
As I knew we would have to sell the house, I didn’t mind leaving because I knew no matter what, he would never pay the mortgage or even give me any money towards it. Now he’s complaining because he says he doesn’t have any money to keep paying an attorney and keeps trying to get me to come to terms with him without the benefit of legal counsel. Yeah, like that’s gonna happen. That would be a big Hell to the No, Oh Great Insane One.
That should read, “acceptance of service.”
I would like a proofreader and an editor for Valentine’s Day, thank you.
TAIUTBMT (The asshole I used to be married to) actually said, on more than one occasion, “I tried to be so mean to you that you would leave me and divorce me. That way I wouldn’t have to do it.” Pretty much says it all, to your point, CL.
And he was. And I did. I have yet to inquire of him if it was worth it, since I will now get nearly 1/2 of his income pretty much for the rest of my natural life. MIGHTY! (and ruthless…no ruth what-so-ever.) Cheaters do not deserve ruth, or Ruth either (whoever she might be.)
Well, I guess my X made a clean break. That was his M.O. though. He had been married five times before me (he told me I was his second wife when I married him) and he left us all the same way. He was madly in love with us one day until OW came along and stroked his insatiable ego and then he was madly in love with the new OW. He screwed around openly until we caught him red handed and then he was out the door. I don’t see anything noble about this ‘out the door exit affair’ or view it as a ‘clean exit affair.’ It was horribly painful. I honestly never saw it coming. I felt like someone in one of those ‘knock out’ violent stories. He had just insisted we renew our wedding vows three months before that. Of course I filed for divorce. He couldn’t be bothered. I find it so hard to believe that he can find SO many women who fall for his bullshit. I did NOT know how many times he had been married. I told OW the truth about all his marriages and how he had JUST remarried me. She’s still with him. He’s cheated on her and she knows it. She stays.
My cheater moved out, and then filed for divorce 5 months later without telling me. The first I heard about it was when I was served divorce papers on a Saturday when the kids were home. His first response?
“Why did you tell the kids?!”
Apparently, it was a BIG secret and no one was supposed to know about it, including me, the kids, his parents, etc., because he didn’t want to come across as, “the bad guy.”
Cheating on your wife, walking out on your kids, ending a decades’-long marriage without discussing it – sorry, there’s just no way you can NOT be the bad guy. Moron!
Sure he can not be the bad guy… to whoever is listening to his stories now.
Which is really why it’s just good to stay no-contact: the last thing you want to hear is sob story fabrications, and worse… real, actual stories of woe that happen later and might make you fall into the “feeling sorry for them” hole you have to force yourself to climb out of again and again.
What my ex did, and I think this is a very common ploy, is pushed the envelope hard enough so that eventually I was the one who had to file for divorce, although he was the one saying how he never should have married me, was in love with someone else, blah blah blah. He did this deliberately so that he could later claim that I was the one who ended our marriage, that I was the one who “blindsided” him with divorce papers, that I was the one who gave up.
Cheaters try to cover their stink by blaming the betrayed spouse for their shittiness. Manipulating the betrayed spouse into being the one who files is just another typical move from their playbook.
I had the same thing happen to me. He used my filing against me. It was “their” plan all along. Seems the bimbo learned a little bit about manipulating during her divorce, too. Perfect couple.
Hear Hear GIO! – and let’s not forget the injustice of actually having to finance the termination of this ‘contract’ they broke! Seems ludicrous to me that employment law / property law / every f**king else law is so robust with regard to contracts, yet divorcing someone who deliberately breaks the contract conditions in marriage is a ruddy nightmare with(at best) a ‘no fault’ option for people who simply can’t afford to pursue justice!
Let’s not forget that ‘Interference with Contract’ is a legitimate thing to throw at a 3rd party interloper, but we don’t even have ‘Alienation of Affection’ for divorce anymore.
Which is why I’ll never have a contract marriage again, ever. The state and it’s courts and their functionaries appear to like divorce because it’s such a money maker for them. “The business of the country is business!” Everybody got a slice.
I don’t know how it works elsewhere, but here in the UK, if you stay with your cheater for 12 months after discovery of the affair, you can’t file for divorce on grounds of adultery as it is deemed acceptable to you (by you staying with them) a ‘minor’ detail the false reconciliation complex mindf**kers keep quiet about. You are then left only with the nebulous ‘no fault’ divorce – that frankly pisses me off – I don’t want posterity to think I ‘gave up’ on my solemn vows because of ‘irreconcilable differences’ – when I truthfully was keeping my promises; ‘better or worse, sickness and in health, forsaking all others’ etc. Sadly, without any guarantee my ex would pay my ‘costs’ I can’t afford to ‘clear my name’ for posterity. At this moment, I’m trying to hardly care, but it’s just ANOTHER shit sandwich and I want to smear that ‘snack’ all over his face!!!! 😀
Here you can’t file for adultery if you have “forgiven” the affair. I am not sure what the legal definition of that would be though….but any definition of forgiven did not apply to me/us, so it didn’t matter in our case.
Wow did this post hit home. He cheated, he asked for a divorce. We live in a no fault state so I said go for it see a lawyer. I did got my ducks lined up and waited as he said he wanted to wait for an annutity to mature. That was 7 ms ago. There has been no discussion of divorce in months and I think the OW dumped him (if I were her I would have he kept saying he wanted to marry her but never even went to see her in over a yr) and now when the subject comes up he says ” This was always YOUR plan!” WTF it is now.
If my STBX wife feels any shame I wouldn’t know it. If anything, she is still manipulative and tries to shame me by blame shifting. She is so image oriented it’s sad. But, she had to make her false justifications long before I knew about the dopey boyfriend.
I like to imagine that on occasion she does feel some shame and realizes the depth of her betrayal towards our family. Then, I snap out of it. I don’t think she is as hollow as an NPD. But, she does have many of the symptoms of an NPD, and not just as a passing phase sort of thing. It’s entrenched. I am sure at the core of her is toxic shame; which ultimately has nothing to do with me. I just got run-over by it.
And, so did my sweet daughter. I dreaded telling her we were separating. When we did, she just put her head on the kitchen table and cried a little. She was five. It broke my heart. She still asks when am I going to ask mommy out on a date again. Which makes me feel white hot rage towards STBX.
Over the holidays I saw my brother. I had not talked with him about it yet. All he could say was “You must have known something was going on, right?” I walked away from him. It’s his insecurity not mine. Everyone was shocked when I told people I wanted a divorce. We had date night, family game night, marriage night, and so on. We are award winning professionals in our community etc..,. So, I think people say, “well, if it could to happen to them…. ” And, so many friends/family encouraged me to try and work it out. It was never an option for me. I tried everything in the marriage to make it work. All the usual tools people use.
We had a lot of problems. Cheating is not something I can reconcile. It’s her shame not mine. She went an fucked someone else. And then she had to live a double life filled with lies. To me and him. For years (maybe, I just assume). How exhausting is that? I do not feel shame. Did I suck in the marriage? Yes I had my faults. At least I can admit them and try to work on them which I did.
And, if someone tries to put shame on me, I am quick with a “fuck off.” I told a friend of mine what happened. He said without hesitation “Well, what did you expect?” I replied without pause “That my wife won’t fuck someone else.” Duh. He’s not my friend anymore.
How people react says more about them than it does my character. I don’t accept other peoples shame today. And, they don’t like it. Too bad. Time to move on to healing.
thirstyfish ‘ WOW what a real mess .. MY SBXH pulled same thing . now going through divorce after 28yrs I loved him unconditional never was it returned kinda really pissed of with him trying shift blame I soon woke up my NEW YEARS resolution is I’m NOT SORRY after all I didn’t step outside this marriage . 2 I place blame back on him your right it’s there honor to wear badge of shame ‘ SO ROCK ON TO MEE LOL sorry your friends FCKEN asshole..
best of luck to you n your daughter have a blessed mighty life
Nicely put, thirtyfish. I went through pretty much the same thing, married to a bottomless pit of disordered need.
I have zero tolerance for taking shit now, whereas before all this I was very tolerant of assholes.
I have seen zero remorse and only justifying and blames hiring from both my cheating XWs.
“Married to a bottomless pit of disordered need”–this was my experience as well. I think of the ex-FW as having a bucket of needs that had a hole in the bottom..
My ex’s main concern was what others would think of him if he left me. I discovered this when I read his journal. He also wanted me to file for divorce and tried to convince me it was my idea, but I refused. I’m still glad I forced him to take responsibility for his actions. At the time it felt like he was asking me to shoot something I loved to help him save face but I refused to do it.
After he left he didn’t tell anyone, not even his siblings. I had to tell people in his family months later. What a coward.
Actually now that you mention it he told me he didn’t want every one to think he was an arsehole. This was while we were talking about mc and fixing it all, before i knew about her. Now that everyone does know what he is and what he did, he moved interstate. I guess everyone there will work it out too.
I was more than happy to file for divorce because I knew OW was pregnant but didn’t know when she was due and I couldn’t stand the thought of what people would think of me when they knew my husband was already having kids with someone else. Goodbye, good riddance!
Oh, we made it by a week btw
I can relate my soon to be ex husband had a baby with the OW and hid it for almost 3 yrs. The OW and I have children that are under a year apart. Bastard!! I have seen a divorce lawyer and am saving up for the retainer fee. Now my soon to be ex husband refuses to move out of the house until I file and he is served. Initially he said he would move out…that was 1 month ago…..smh
Damn Nat1, That’s awful. What a jackass.
Lyn,
It’s weird I know. My ex’s concern at one point was that I would file first so that it looked I was divorcing her. Um…yeah. This goes in line with her sending all of our friends and colleagues a “Here’s my new address” announcement. I have yet to see one of those beauties. Wtf, right?
Maybe work on the marriage instead the your shiny thin veneer. Oh wait, too late.
What did you expect? Man, I’m sorry your “friend” sucks so bad. I can only take that comment one of two ways — either he thought it was obvious to everyone she was a cheater, and expected you to know that — or he thinks everyone should accept infidelity in their relationships.
Either way, he’s not the friend for you. (Or anyone, except morally retarded people.)
Hard to know if your ex feels shame. If she’s blame shifting, she feels something icky and uncomfortable that she wants to give to you — and you aren’t accepting it. Good for you.
I’m sorry people are being such idiots about this. Where’s their compassion for you?
CL,
I particularly relish that term, “morally retarded.” So simple, yet so all-encompassing. You are plainly a genius.
Hey thanks CL. My former friend believes everyone should accept infidelity. He is an idiot as far as emotional health goes.
I don’t know much about the affair. I know that she was pushing me away hard with all those familiar moves out of the cheater playbook a few years ago. And, then things got better. Ironically, my marriage was the best it had been in years just before I ended it. So, she may have ended it with loser boyfriend some time ago. My sister thinks she felt guilty; that’s why she wanted to have another baby less than a year ago. WHAT! Crazy, I know. I don’t know everything and mostly don’t care now.
It is hard though. I read “Standing on Lies” yesterday. I do claim my story and I’ll tell it as I see fit.
And, I will say that I do have a really good support network, which includes a little old lady. She’s 76 and crabby; but she is wise about chumpiness. She’s a “get a life” advocate. And, I have you guys here. There is no other place that understands what I’m thinking and feeling about this shitty time. Very few in my support network here “get it” like we do here. And, I hope they never do. lol But they still help me. Thanks again.
I want a “get a life advocate”!
Nat1,
She’s a badass from Chicago. She clamps the responsibility down on whoever it belongs to. Sometimes in the shame game I lose perspective and take on shit that’s not mine. We call it passing the hot potato of shame around. I’m learning to drop that tater.
So my friend keeps the focus on solutions for my daughter and me. She was chumped. By her best friend with ExH. She has perspective; and she knows it’s hard as hell.
I think the reason some people don’t get it is because if they can think it’s something unique to you, it can’t or won’t happen to them. It’s like a defense mechanism.
Years ago, I was training as a Rape Victim Advocate and some of the most outlandish, blame the victim comments came from other women. I was surprised until I realized that they believed if they could find the flaw in the victim, if on some level, they were “different” from her, they wouldn’t be raped. I thought it was delusional, but people who thought like that could not be shaken from their belief.
I don’t think these beliefs necessarily end with infidelity and rape either.
I don’t think anyone gets it unless they’ve experienced it. How do you explain to someone what it feels like to discover that your spouse has been cheating for years,including with – but not limited to – your friends. People think they get it but they really don’t. It’s a pain I cannot even describe now, as it’s passed mostly and although I recall it I can’t quite dredge up the searing, debilitating pain that nearly laid me out for good. I simply cannot explain it to someone who hasn’t been through it.
soul ripping death. literally feels like your soul is ripped from your body. your body goes numb. your body could take a stab to the heart and it wouldn’t even register. Your soul, however, is completely consumed by pain so raw, you wish you had died, because at least that way, you don’t have to feel anything anymore.
That searing pain.. where you could scream yourself hoarse and it doesn’t help. Curled up on the floor, sobbing so hard it feels like your eyes are trying to pop out of your head. And you don’t die right there on the floor, though you thought you would for all the agony you’re in.
But even spelled out like this, someone who never went through it will never understand.
Nord,
I agree- that pain is excruciating and I can’t imagine someone who hasn’t been through it can fathom it.
So glad that’s over!
I’ve considered this a whole lot – we heard a few posts back (in the comment section) about how “70% of divorces are initiated by women,” and that is true. However, what the research fails to show is why the divorce was initiated by the initiator, and I’m always curious if my storie(s) are common or not.
My CHPWD (Cheats-on-His-Pregnant-Wife-Dickhead, pronounced Chipwad) is my second marriage. The first marriage also ended due to infidelity on my XH part (yes, I need to FIX MY PICKER, I’m working on it).
Anyway, the XH had an affair with a coworker, fell madly into Twu Wuv, and we suddenly had a “sham of a marriage,” “haven’t been happy in years” situation on our hands – according to him, anyway. He told me to my face on multiple occasions the marriage was over and had no hope of being saved. He made no move to initiate a divorce. We continued to live together in the same house as “separated.” He continued to openly see/call/text/e-mail the OW during this time. What a special Hell THAT was.
It didn’t take long for me to move out after that – DUH. I did the whole “You want a divorce, YOU go get one” thing, and I stuck to my guns about it, too. For three years. Did you read that right?
FOR. THREE. YEARS.
My XH, while a cheating asshole for sure, is not a completely irredeemable human being. So, he paid the bills on the marital home responsibly, didn’t take out a bunch of debt in my name, voluntarily paid some of my own bills (he made a LOT more money than me) because he didn’t want me to struggle financially, etc. The cheating screwed me over, sure…but I could have been screwed over way worse, and I didn’t pay attention to that fact until hindsight let me in on it. I’m perversely a little bit grateful he turned out to only be a three-star Fuckhead and not a five-star Fuckhead.
But three years? Seriously? He had long broken up with the OW by then. He was not in another relationship. He didn’t want to reconcile with me. He just DIDN’T WANT TO FILE, because “Eww, hassle. Eww, might have to read some papers. Eww, filing fees.”
So, I finally did. I became one of the 70%, and it was not by choice. The stats are easy to read as “women are the ones who give up,” but I just don’t think it’s true. Women might just be the ones who can act like grownups.
So, anyway….on to Chipwad. Same story, different decade, except now there are two lovely children in the mix. He cheats with a coworker, gaslights, minimizes, deflects, and swears he “loves” me and our family on the daily, all the while carrying on with The Whorecunt (yeah, I have strong feelings about women who date married men). I catch them together red-handed, and suddenly he hasn’t been happy IN YEARS, our marriage is a sham, we’re inherently incompatible, blah-blah-blahdity-blah. I flat out ask him on a number of occasions if he wants to be married or he wants a divorce. It takes a dozen times, but he finally says “Divorce,” then has spent every day since then (sometimes every HOUR) cycling between divorce and I-love-you-so-much-I’ll-do-anything-to-make-this-work.
I go Super-Chump on him and live within limbo for months, dancing the ever-loving SHIT outta the Pick Me Dance. I should win frickin’ trophies for nailing it.
Every time he’s feeling “divorce-y” He FLAT-OUT tells me that he can’t stopped feeling ashamed about being “that” guy, so he wants ME to file so he can “comfort himself down the road with the knowledge that I wasn’t the one who did it.”
That is a direct quote, by the way. He also TELLS ME TO MY FACE he is mentally torturing me with limbo to get me to pull the plug, because he can’t live with the shame of filing for divorce. Read that again…he is purposely limbo’ing because he knows it’s killing me and he ADMITS IT.
So, Chumpy Me (I just became Mighty two weeks ago) is all “Oooo, I’ll show HIM. I won’t file! I’ll just wait his sorry ass out! I’m not giving him the satisfaction! I won’t let him HAVE THIS from me, nosirree-Bob, no-way-no-how!” But I do kick him out. So now we’re separated.
And a month has gone by. I have about another four months worth of savings before I’m wiped out, and with two minor children to support, I need a court-ordered child support setup ASAP. I can’t support the three of us forever without money from him. He knows this. In our state, he is under no obligation to pay anything unless a divorce is underway (no legal separation in our state). He could stop supporting his children anytime he wanted without repercussion.
Guess who won’t file?
So, I’m filing, and I’ll be in the 70% again…but the shame belongs on him.
LML, did he move out? My state doesn’t recognize separation either, so for a time my ex was not paying child support either. But my attorney managed to get him to pay “what he thought was fair.” The a*hole (also an attorney) produced trumped-up math “proving” that he owed me about a third of the child support he actually owed when the calculations were made by the court. Now he owes me back support, which is paid at a rate of about 200 extra bucks a month. Be sure to keep records of when he left (if he did). If you both are still living under the same roof, I am not sure he will owe any child support for the separation period–check with an attorney.
My ex also had the attitude that it was “his house” and he wouldn’t leave, no way, no how. So I was the one who had to develop the exit strategy and save for it. It took me two years and getting a full time job. I won’t say it is easy, but I do not regret leaving. I bet you won’t either. Get out before he milks your money dry!
He can’t live with the “shame of filing for divorce”? But he lives with the shame of being a cheater just fine.
You absolutely need to file. And prove your date of separation and get that fucking support paid retroactively. No way he abandons two children and doesn’t pay a cent.
Oh, hey, apparently he’s not ashamed about THAT enough either!!!!
Once again, wonderful post
I feel no shame now. I am content in the knowledge that I did everything I could to stay in my marriage. It was not my fault that I was fighting a losing battle with a man who did whatever (and whoever!) he could to sabotage my efforts. I feel absolutely no shame in being divorced from him. If anything, I am proud that I am divorced. It is a testament to my strength and my awesomeness that I am not only surviving – but THRIVING now. Yay me!
The only time I felt shame was when I felt pressured to give him (yet) another chance – by our family doctor, by my brother, by our marriage counsellor and by my therapist. I wasn’t strong enough to stand on my own then, so I agreed. Not surprisingly, it took less than a month before XH’s old habits resurfaced and then I felt the shame. I was so ashamed of myself for being weak and for not pulling the plug on a that train wreck of a marriage years ago. I was so ashamed of myself for valuing everyone else’s opinions and expectations above my own.
I was ashamed of still being married to him…and the moment I realized that was my Turning Point.
That shame propelled me forward. I kicked his ass out and filed for divorce. I got it all…kids, house, alimony….and a bright, shiny future to boot.
There is no shame in divorce…but there is shame in willingly letting someone shit all over you time and time and time again.
The clincher for me to file was because otherwise I had no rights to my children. According to law, my husband could physically take the children from me at any time. At least now, I have a court order saying when and where he can take them.
Understood – this was an important consideration for me too.
I struggle to this day (3 years later) with the divorce shame. Mine is less about what other people think and more about my own FOO issues.
My parents were divorced, bitterly so… from when I was just a toddler and with all the common trappings of cheating, fighting, money woes, etc.
I swore I’d never be them. The failure of that promise to myself is probably the biggest of all hurdles in finalizing my divorce.
Even worse, my husband was well aware of my feelings on that before we even married and still took it upon himself to cheat and abandon. It boggles the mind how someone you trust with all of your vulnerabilities can stab you in the back with them.
Ahhh – isn’t it amazing how in telling them our vulnerabilities it turns into a ‘bucket list’ of things they must do! I swear – the new, savvier me, will make sure I tell my next that I would be mortified if they – ooh lets say; took me on five star vacations at least twice a year, bought me a house, new car, found me the fountain of eternal youth 😀 Seriously – how does love convert into this shite they allow themselves to dole out????
This makes so much sense, my husband was having an affair with cw, usual I had no idea everything took place during working hours, he confessed and asked us to try again, I did for one year but it was to painful and we split. Ten months later we were back together, year later downsized, within two weeks he is cold again. He says he feels empty,unworthy I thought it was guilt, he moved out to a colleagues no address given to me or our boys, kept coming back to visit for two weeks, next I know he says he has been put on depression tablets, visits me on our 32 wedding anniversary and says I no longer love you, I could stay as your handyman or companion? I ask him to leave.
Next morning I get a email at work advising me he is away to the algarve to start his medication, I get a letter from ow husband two weeks later to say they were on holiday together and are now living together, I phone him and ask why. He replies I don’t know why but I am happy!!! NC since that day and I have filed for divorce. I am devasted and so hurt but no going back. Thanks for this site if I have ever been tempted to contact him this keeps me sane. Why can’t they see the pain they cause? Why?
It’s nice to have found a community that understands. Great points in this post, Chump Lady! Thank you.
I will never forget the time my cheating, ex-wife messaged me angry that I actually shared the fact that she had cheated with mutual “friends.” The fact she cheated and lied to me over months (minimally) didn’t matter as much as my sharing of that fact. How dare I mess with her narrative/image control?! I let her know I would keep on telling the truth as I saw fit, and that was that.
So glad to be off the crazy, shame train! I have finally met someone who is respectful of me and owns her behavior/choices. There really is a bright future and hope afterwards for chumps!
My ex was furious when I told people. He got even more furious when more came to light…and I told people. He actually said he didn’t want people to think he was screwing around all the time. My response – ‘But you were’ – was met with more anger. Fuck him. He’s a moron.
Nord,
Seriously, I think your X and my STBX were separated at birth – two morons with a colossal eternal entitlement complex.
It looks bad, and they don’t want to look bad. Sad thing is that they didn’t think of that before cheating. In arrogance, they thought they were too clever to get caught. Now, they are facing the truth. Yep, it makes them look bad…because what they did WAS BAD!
Welcome Chaplain David! Way to go on the new friend. 🙂
Thanks! She is my fiance now. An amazing woman!
I filed today. I am of the exact opposite belief. I am not ashamed, I am proud as hell! Hello backbone, hello self respect, oh how I have missed you both!! This was my choice, his fault, plain and simple. I don’t have children so that made the decision & process easier. Talk about feeling mighty. I AM A WARRIOR!!!!
You are awesome!!!
You are MIGHTY!
“They don’t want to be alone”
I’m in the camp where the ex lined up the new relationship – the perfect were meant fir each other “forever yours my darling”. “You are my everything. Oh I love you my darling”
Now entering the third year they just have each other. The boys want nothing to do with mum if chainsaw man is around. My oldest son is yet to meet him and refuses him to be at a footy game. My youngest hasn’t met him but was I the house at the same time when chainsaw man stayed the night. How fucked up is that they don’t seek permission for chainsaw man to stay but instead just say he’s staying and too bad if you don’t like it.
The damage that does to a young boy is immeasurable. To date no one has stayed here if the boys are here. It’s simple respect.
I’m not ashamed any more. There has been so much love and support from friends of the boys and my friends both old and new.
Groceries amd chainsaw man live in a cocoon just with her family visiting. What a boring insular life. However my councillor said that’s exactly how they designed and wanted it. Away from children and daily stresses.
As far as divorce is concerned I don’t care about it. Just like a don’t care about groceries. She’s the boys mother ( when its convient for her)
My ex and final OW are in a bubble with his family, her family and a handful of other people and that is it. Everyone else has bailed. One kid sees them, the other refuses to have anything to do with final OW so ex chose final OW over the kid. May he burn in hell for doing that.
Nord, they simply don’t care. They expect you and I to support OW/OM and encourage life to go on as if nothing happened.
My boys are old enough to work out what’s right and wrong.
We get blamed for everything. We just have to ignore them and their families and live a good life for ourselves and our kids
As others have said, my STBX kept escalating; it went form the beginning “Are you happy?” apparently hoping I would say “No” so it would be my fault. Then he went to he wasn’t happy and didn’t know what he wanted to do, so I initiated a trial separation with a lot of room for reconciliation. Well, that wasn’t what he wanted so he told me about his affair (the first after 28 yrs of marriage). When I said I wasn’t willing to throw away 28 yrs of marriage, and 33 years together for a few months of misbehavior, he got to the nasty emotional hurting shit. He “settled” when he married me. He wouldn’t care if I died (seriously, he said that). I was controlling (after he had said I gave him everything he ever wanted and let him go wherever he wanted, whenever he wanted). Blah, blah, blah.
Even after moving out, I find that no one knows we are separated. I am constantly hurt by those inquiring about how he is, what trips we have been on lately, did he come with me to an event? These are people he sees on a regular basis, but has not told. Oh no, I have to tell them so they are embarrassed about their comment, and I am hurt all over again. I mentioned this fact to him last weekend and he said it “wasn’t their business”. Oh, why isn’t it when he gives them info as if we are still together (such as telling people that I would be attending the party last Saturday). He has had many opportunities to just state simply that we aren’t together. It’s not like I expect him to tell them everything, just that we aren’t a couple anymore.
I will have to be the one to file for divorce because he just isn’t going to get around to it even though he has made it clear that it is over and he doesn’t want to be together.
Yep, I can relate to Chump Lady’s post, and all the comments on this subject!
Bogie, don’t even bother talking to him about anything other than practicals. Don’t discuss your marriage, your relationship, anything personal. He will simply fuck with your head.
As far as telling people, just simply say ‘We are divorcing due to his cheating’. And that’s it. Confide in those close to you should you feel comfortable. Don’t if you don’t.
And the death thing? Ex told my kids he hated me and hoped I ended up homeless….he’s done everything possible to make that happen. All because I discovered his serial cheating and refused to say we were divorcing for any other reason. Even if I do end up homeless I’ll still have my integrity.
Nord – you are right. This was the first time for a while that I had gotten into anything personal because that very day I had had to tell the people holding the party that we weren’t together and I was sick of having to be the one to break the news.
Your Ex actually said he hoped you ended up homeless? WTF?
I had a lot of the same situations – I had to tell our friends, I had to tell our acquaintances, I had to tell our neighbors, I even had to tell our dentist! It was mortifying for a while – but now it doesn’t bother me as much. It’s all about his image and him not having to feel bad about himself – at my expense! It so clearly highlights his selfishness and just reminds me why I NEVER want this person in my life anymore.
I too had to tell our dentist, our chiropractor (both a week after he was at those places). Both those places were dumbfounded because apparently he talked about me as if we were still together (we had been living apart by then), and had said only good stuff about me.
It is all about his image, but I finally decided it was no longer my job to protect his image. If it had been that important to him he would have initiated the unhappy talk BEFORE starting to F*ck his coworker!
He didn’t care if you died?????? H. I. T. M. A. N.!!!!! That’s all I have to say! Remember that old song “he had it coming”? Man these idiots just keep getting away and getting away with it.
Nat – I like it!
Not to interject at all, but just wikipedia’d something for us.
Knockout (violent game)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The “knockout game” is one of many names given to assaults in which, purportedly, one or more assailants attempt to knock out an unsuspecting victim, often with a single sucker punch, all for the amusement of the attackers and their accomplices.
Something of an urban myth, designed to demonise a certain segment of the population.
Tell that to the people it’s actually happened to. I saw it on the news one night captured on camera.
That’s what happened to me. We had just renewed our wedding vows.
Talk about coming out of fucking no where.
I ended up in the hospital with ‘takotsubo cardiomypathy’ …broken heart syndrome.
Break my jaw and knock my teeth out. That would have been kinder.
My divorce only took 4 months to get. I (of course) had to file even though it was him who didn’t want to work on our marriage, him who said he wanted to move out, him who refused to stop cheating. But I knew that if I waited for him to do it, it would never happen. In my state you have to be separated for a year before you can file – unless you file for a fault divorce. I filed at fault, cited his adultery, subpoenaed his girlfriend to court and got my divorce. This doesn’t make me feel shame, it makes me feel mighty! Anytime someone asks how my divorce happened so fast, I just smile and say “I had cause”. They usually understand what that means. It makes him look stupid.
The thing that amazes me about it, is that even at the very end (after all of his lies and gaslighting) he still thought that I would do what was in HIS best interest and honest with HIM about the divorce and my plans. He was pissed that I didn’t tell him I was going to subpoena his AP, that my mom was going to be there a witness. Like he deserved my candor?? He did exatly what my therapist said and let me handle things because that’s what he always did. He’s too self absorbed to even think that I, little chumpy me, would get one over on him. But I did, and I’m free!
No shame here; I’m proud of myself.
I WISH my state allowed to file with cause. I would be naming him and his skank all over the place.
I wish too, i dream of taking out a full page ad in the lical paper of his town. It’s very hard to shut up when he promotes his business and himself by the fact that he is a “parent” and if you want “simple and honest” (HONEST!!!!!!!!!!WTF????????) go to him. Really?????? His shit doesn’t stink!
I filed for domestic abuse, desertion and adultery. Unfortunately one has to put the details in the filing. The only time I felt shame was writing down the nasty things, he’d done to me over the years. That was difficult because I blamed myself for allowing it, for not leaving sooner. And of course, divorce papers are public record.
Ex emailed me after he was served and he said; “this will ruin me, it’s humiliating”. Of course he still dragged out the settlement until two weeks before the court date. He only signed then because he had failed to respond to the filing in any way and I lucked out, the judge cited him with contempt of court. Since he was on probation for two DUIs he signed the next day and his lawyer got the contempt charge dismissed. I am a lucky person, my ex is VERY afraid of going to jail.
Well,
in my story, i am the cheater.
(I am not from US, not even from an english speaking country, so forgive my terrible language. I learned it only from movies. it’s my first time I ever write in english on a blog)
I made this dumb mistake, a slept with an OW. During that time, i felt guilty, but not too much. My wife havent slept with me for one entire year, so it seemed wrong, but also ok to do that. The OW was married too, she lacked sex as well, and it seemed like a right thing to do at the moment.
Now, I know it was totally wrong, but it’s too late. I tried to put the guilt on her side, but now i understand I was so fkcing predictable. I was something between an ordinary monkey/man and a sociopath.
Well, I made other DH mistakes (where DH means Dumb Husband), the biggest one being to invest half of all family money in one single bad business. And, to lie about it, hoping i could cover this somehow. Which i dont. For her, this seemed to be the biggest fault.
Long story short, after the moment she found out all the lies, She divorced. Not instantly, but after 3 years, where we lived together, with our 2 children. For 3 years, we slept separately, and I provided for us. (only me working during our marriage) In my country you can divorce in court (if there are issues about money or children) or directly to a lawyer, if we agree on all terms. Clean and discreet.
Fcourse, knowing I was guilty, I accepted all her conditions. I gave her everything, (including all 4 houses we own) and children. The law here doesnt allow to give everything, if the other part doesnt pay at least 20 percent back. Well, I signed an official paper that i received from her 215k usd that i never received, only to finish the divorce.
I did this because I understood i was wrong, that I acted like a teenager instead of a grown up and because i want to have her back, and live like a family, even without a silly paper between us.
I thought she will forgive me.
Well, after the divorce, she let me literally on the streets. I have no money, no car and only the clothes left on me. She dont want to talk to me or let me home. Nor see the children. Not even to grab my things from our home.
I dont even have the key from one of our 3 other houses, so i had to rent.
I could go to police, I could claim my very few rights i kept for me, but i dont want to do such thing to my family. i really love her, and I presume she only want me to feel what i had and what i can lose. I hope i’m not too blind.
Or, she can simply move away or start over with somone else. She doesnt have to work a single day in her life from now on, (which makes me feel somehow good) but i dont understand exactly how she could think right now.
what would you do? Would you take back a man who cheated, lied and then lied again to cover lies? Even he accepted the guilt, spent 3 years without touching her as a punishment and left everything to her?
as a note, I never missed a single night home in 14 years of marriage. I lied about what I have eaten or who I met, and I never fall in love with someone else. I lied about any thing I thought it can make her angry. Which I understand now is no use @all.
(this is not a fiction or an exercise, so it’ll be helpful if someone of you might provide an answer. thanks in advance)
Oh CL,
Your right on ess doesn’t stop! Always so clear and to the point and above all well written!!!
Funny how they never get the simple problem of being unfaithful = problems, nor do they ever learn from the repeated pattern. It’s truly amazing and they keep on rolling on the same tracks.
As I said to myself and the ex cheater, my only contribution to the problem was staying longer than I should have. I own that. I have learned from that.
This evening I came across something that made me crack up laughing on my own facebook page while I was looking for a video I had posted that I had wanted to send to a friend who is not on facebook. It was a post I had made when I was with the cheater which said, “To Quote the WHO – I won’t get fooled again”. The first person to post on my post was the Cheater who wrote, “Is there something I should know about?????”.
This had me laughing as at the time I had posted I was commenting on the Presidential Re-election, but clearly the cheater thought I had found something out about him and panicked. Funny how things take on completely different meaning as time goes by.
Had to share that one with you all.
💯 Cheaters hate how divorce makes them look bad & harms their ability to find future prey. Divorce shame is also a 🚩for Switzerland “friends.” Example: a physician couple my cheater exH & I used to regularly have dinners with over 8 years in a small community far, far away carefully lied by omission, strategically neglecting to ever mention the husband had been divorced before, and remarried quickly. Cheater! Naturally, the couple ended up siding with my ex, while pretending to my face they didn’t (I blocked them). In hindsight, them hiding a simple biographical fact like that in the context of all of the intimate conversations we had over 8 years – including me supporting them through the husband’s brother’s suicide – was very creepy. Liars by omission, folks with weird divorce shame like that are too often cheaters themselves. 🚩🚩🚩
There are so many cheaters, cheater supporters who like that charmand sadly alot of chumps who learned zero from the loss and abuse. .and do a pick me dance even after the divorce. There is not alot left after that
The ex-FW was furious with me for filing (rage is his MO,so not surprising). He wanted mediation, and couldn’t understand why I didn’t trust him. It wasn’t just him I didn’t trust, I didn’t trust that I could stand up to his bullying and anger. He has a history of physical, verbal, and emotional abuse with our kids when they were younger. Therapy and medication helped him rein this in, however, he emotional and verbal abuse is still there, but dialed down. The damage has been done. My kids are teens/young adults and I have given them tools to identify and cope with his BS. I was truthful to my attorney about his affair and his past treatment of our kids. He never told his attorney any of this and she learned it from my attorney. It was horrible to learn that his attorney’s response was “Well, this is a ‘he-said-she-said’ situation”. He was, again, furious that I told my attorney the truth about his actions and behaviors. His image management is textbook narcissism. I don’t feel any shame for divorcing him. I do feel shame for not getting out when my kids where younger.
“The ex-FW was furious with me for filing (rage is his MO,so not surprising). He wanted mediation, and couldn’t understand why I didn’t trust him. It wasn’t just him I didn’t trust, I didn’t trust that I could stand up to his bullying and anger. ”
My FW didn’t want the divorce at all, yet also was not looking for reconciliation. He wanted to move his AP cross country to where we lived, have her…and ME. But not in an open relationship per se. More, like he wanted me to remain his friend, but move to a platonic friendship. And he didn’t want to divorce because we would “always be family”. It was CRAZY. What in the cake eating fuckwittery? Anyway, he was so against the divorce and I was so intimidated by him that it took forever for us to actually start the process. And even then, it was ALL me doing the legwork. (we did mediation so the mediator I found was repping us both) By the time we started the process he was no longer with AP– but had found a new gf (post-separation) that he could not shut up about how serious they were. He would tell me that they were making plans for the future and in the next breath be pissed that I wanted a divorce. What was he waiting for? Did he want her to be wearing an engagement ring while we were still married and hadn’t even STARTED the process? He still…9 months into his super serious new relationship is resentful that our divorce process is moving along. It is the weirdest thing, and I will never truly understand it. But I am in good company. So many chumps faced similar situations.
It’s funny there is a new trend online where a lot of men (sorry to our male chumps! Not all men!) are pointing out how 80% of divorces are initiated by women. These men are trying to say that women get married and then, through nofaultof the men, want to take half and be free. Like the women are doing this lightly. And then of course, these innocent men are stuck with child support and losing half etc. I am sure there are women that do this. Goldiggers, for example. But I don’t think the statistics of “more women initiate divorce than men” is proof of this. Because being here on CN, I see so many lady chumps that say “and*I* had to be the one to file”. These chumps have FWs already moved in with their APs. FWs that have hooker addictions. Serial affairs. Sure, they did the filing, but I would say the FW INITIATED the divorce by having the affair, right? In my case he didn’t even get caught, he TOLD me about her because he had CHOSEN her. But…was mad that I wanted to divorce?
I am sorry you had to go through all that BS, and I’m proud of you for pushing the divorce through! These FWs really operate out of the same playbook! Mine confessed, too. He told me he had to go elsewhere for attention because I was “emotionally unavailable”. Never mind that we have 3 children, one of whom is disabled and requires a lot of need, and I was working full time, and being the primary/sane parent, and managing depression and anxiety. After he confessed to his 5 year affair, he told me I needed to “fix” myself and be a better wife in order for our marriage to survive. So, I did the pick me dance as I ate my shit sandwiches. During this time, he also declared that we couldn’t afford to get divorced, so he was going to convert the garage into his own living space so we could live our lives separately, but still be a family. It was all so insane. I am so glad to be out and no contact/gray rock.
I hope you are in a better place and enjoying your life FW-free.
Wow–he was angry that you told YOUR LAWYER about what had happened to the marriage? As you say, it’s textbook narcissism (and textbook narcissistic bullying).
He’s a piece of work. I felt like I was the crazy one for so long. Reading what other Chumps have gone through has really helped me navigate this and I don’t feel so alone.
Yeah, mine would not file! He talked about wanting to kill me, how he couldn’t wait to be rid of me, he spoke to his adult baby on speaker phone in our home about their future life together, but he would not file! He wouldn’t even call a lawyer. He would just casually go about his day threatening my life and insulting me. So I had to do it. Then when it was final, he whined that he didn’t want to move out of our apartment because “can’t I just live here to save money?!” Eww.
But, on the bright side, his refusal to do anything forced me to go through everything getting things sorted and that’s how I found out he was a pedophile. Learning he was a monster made the whole thing easier for me in a way. All my feelings for him abruptly vanished at that discovery. So, I guess his laziness and irresponsibility was a blessing in a way.
It still blew my mind though. You hate me so much and want out so badly, so go! Why drag your feet? It was definitely a mind fuck.
“He would just casually go about his day threatening my life and insulting me. So I had to do it.“
Yes. At some point I said this marriage will kill me.
After years of severe emotional abuse, serial adultery and general chronic crappiness including an 18 month stint where he lived 3000 miles away and played house with Susan while lying about it, he said to me:
“Im really proud that I never left you”
He justified the 3000 mile solitary move to San Francisco (where he got an apartment, signed a lease and bought furniture…things you do when you LIVE somewhere) because there were “no jobs” in the metro Wash DC area. (eyeroll). He assured me he was just WORKING there. When he drove away, he said he would stay in executive hotels and not get an apartment, but he had the whole apartment before he was through his first tank of gas there. He justified the apartment because if he stayed in exe hotels, he couldn’t keep a jar of mayonnaise from one stay to another.
Well that explains everything…leave your wife and kids 3000 miles away and set up an entire home because mayonnaise.
He assured me that he had ended it with Susan of Seattle …but there was a pesky detail that she was caught fucking the government customer (proof was in work email) and lost her job. My Cheater got her a new job…guess where…oh just guess. San Francisco. “But Unicornomore, you need to believe me that Im not seeing her there”.
and at the time….I chose to believe him
So he gave OW an audition as wife appliance at there love nest in SF and I will never know exactly why they didnt make it permanent but Im nearly certain that avoiding DIVORCE SHAME was a part of it. His repeated method of preventing that was to be so horrible that I “threw him out”.
While he was alive I consciously believed the “Susan and I dont see each other in SF” although I have no idea what my subconscious thought. He moved home, I ate shit sandwiches of wreckonsillyation and then he died. A few months after he died, I found proof that much of his story was a lie – but he was not there to yell at.
On the day he said “Im really proud I never left you” I did respond with “Really? what about the 18 months in SF?”
Which is all a long way of saying that I agree with CL on this.
“ His repeated method of preventing that was to be so horrible that I “threw him out” “
Yes. Same here. FW became repeatedly violent and was thrown out by me. Good riddance! 😂
My whoremonger cheater actually said « I didn’t want people to think I sucked at marriage ». Great, what other people thought was more important than his own happiness – or mine. He was critical, demanding, rude, disrespectful and argumentative for 35 years. He was « nice » to everyone but me. I always felt like his horrible behavior wasn’t quite enough reason to divorce him. I thought he was « stressed with work ». However, discovery of his cheating was certainly « enough » and I finally filed. So happy without the daily discord. Of course Cheaterpants didn’t want to get divorced and dragged it out. It was worth the misery. Nothing worse than living with a cheater. Nothing better than no contact and peace. Thank you for all your sage advice CL.
That’s how stupid they are- they don’t want to be married to us anymore but also won’t go through the process- slaves don’t deserve a payout and how dare we expect one!
A few years ago, the fuckwit started harassing me to forgive him. It got so bad that I spilled the beans about EVERYTHING (the cheating, the ongoing harassment) to key people in my community who, with my permission, spread the word.
The result? Fuckwit became persona non grata. People already hated him, but my story really solidified to folks what a dipshit he is. He got kicked out of hobby groups and even got fired from his volunteer job. My friends confronted him and told him to stop harassing me or there would be hell to pay. I haven’t heard a peep out of the fuckwit ever since. In fact, he flees whenever he sees me coming.
The reversal couldn’t be more shocking. He used to invade my personal space and try to bully me into believing his lies. Now he’s visibly ashamed and terrified of me and can’t look me in the face. The last time I ran into him, he wilted as if I’d physically beat him.
Funny how he can’t hide from himself now that he can’t foist his shame on me and everyone knows the truth.
“The last time I ran into him, he wilted as if I’d physically beat him.“
I LOVE THIS!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Wonderful FW karma story!
Dickhead McCluggage has the ability to feel absolutely no shame as his super power.
Abandon wife and just stop speaking to her while she’s working overseas ? – check.
Behaves as horribly as he can when visiting wife ? – check.
Swaps wife out for town bike without telling her? – check.
Tell everyone outrageous lies about what happened? – check.
Abandon 3 family cats miles from home and deny it’s our cat when the vet finds one? – check.
File a false Domestic Violence Report with the police? – check.
All for kibbles.
All so he can cry about how he’s been left yet again by a wife – just because.
She was so horrible to meeeee- but I’m not divorcing her.
The above is just the top of a very nasty putrid iceberg.
What a worthless prick. I do think that subconsciously they know they are scum. Otherwise, why would they pretend to be normal and play the victim to such a maniacal degree. Why else would they care so much about the impression they make. It’s all to deny what they know deep down is true IMO.
You could be right there.
He’s having a life crisis- keeps making every wrong decision it’s possible to make and wonders why he’s where he is.
My ex initiated the final divorce conversation. He had been talking about it for over a decade, and we had been separated long-distance for over a year. As if I didn’t know it was coming? Thankfully, I had been working hard to become self-supporting and asking around about attorneys. I pretty much knew the basics. So he broke up our marriage of several decades by phone. Yes, really classy. He promised, “easy.” I laughed. He was offended.
To this day, I think he kicked it off because he was a control fiend. He knew the marriage was over and decided he’d control the final narrative. He even told me he’d write the agreement because he knew “best.” That went badly, so I had my attorney do it. My STBX was furious. Then he made it a mess because he felt out of control. He dragged out both the divorce and closeout way, way longer than necessary. Yes, the divorce he kicked off. But the shame, the shame.
Ironically, I didn’t struggle with the shame. The divorce had to be, after all. Why would I go back to such chaos, after all?
The whole thing is a rock and a hard place because, if FWs are bent on divorce, there’s the shock of sudden total abandonment. But if they’re determined to keep the respectable cover of marriage and the chump is forced to file, there’s the threat of raging post-separation abuse. And either way there’s the threat of financial skullduggery.
It’s partly why I played the wreckconciliation game for awhile after D-day– because I sensed the landmines in every direction and needed to buy time. I was also blindsided and confused but I found out way too much on D-day for the hopium to fully take effect. It was like having a split personality for awhile. On the one hand I’d be grasping at straws of genuine naugahyde and, on the other, my hands would be dialing the attorney on their own and secretly collecting and stashing important documents.
At least in my case there was an upside to the fact that FW hadn’t considered divorce nor researched anything about it. It meant he was completely ignorant about regional divorce laws and policies and also hadn’t prepared to conceal assets. It frankly made him easier to scare into compliance since he actually believed he could go to jail for hiding money or committing perjury (I didn’t threaten him with this but also did nothing to “disabuse” him of these assumptions, cough). Plus he couldn’t count on the AP to lie for him if subpoenaed since his resistance to divorce had created a built-in conflict in the affair that exploded into a good old shitstorm after D-day.
You could call the conflict “dueling shame triggers.” While FW was obviously deeply ashamed of the idea of being divorced, the AP– though she’d apparently pretended at the beginning that she was game for a no-strings fling– was ashamed that FW wouldn’t divorce for her sake. At least I imagine this had to be humiliating after I heard from two workplace whistleblowers that the AP had bragged to all her barfly friends that she had FW “in the bag” and giggled about scouting cheesy wedding venues.
Also when she got dumped and blocked on D-day, the AP reportedly went into such a serious mental health spiral that the “Deep Throats” and my attorney became concerned she might go full violent bunny boiler and advised me to take security measures. She reportedly started showing up stoned or drunk at work, went into an extreme yo-go weight loss and weight gain and started trashing FW to anyone who would listen. Once it was clear no one in the work arena was taking her attempts to evoke #MeToo seriously and there was no real threat of a settlement-wrecking lawsuit or of her burning the house down with me and the kids in it, I asked my informants not to give me any more updates. I discovered it’s actually possible to overdose on schadenfreude and even kind of nauseating to get the grisly blow-by-blow of someone nuking themselves in slow motion. I was in danger of actually feeling sorry for her. Only the facts that she’d wished me dead and had greedily gobbled through half the kids’ college funds prevented it.
In the so-called “full disclosure” part of the RIC fiasco, FW swore he’d always been clear to the AP that he wasn’t seeking divorce and that this was a big issue in the affair. Though at first he’d tried to pretend the affair was a “refuge” from our supposedly terrible marriage, he finally reluctantly admitted that the AP’s radical bait and switch started only a few months into it and the rest was a lot of drunken crying jags, screeching and punishing temporary breakups each time he refused to make any moves towards dumping his family.
Though I’m sure there are things I’ll never know it’s pretty clear the last bit was true for a few reasons. For one, it would be very odd if he’d selectively wiped his Google/Chrome histories of searches for divorce lawyers and regional divorce policies but then left all the really humiliating porn links. Secondly, admitting the affair was a combative shitshow and the AP was an unstable, controlling banshee put FW at a huge disadvantage by exposing his original groundless DARVO claims against me as nothing more than some kind of displacement/projection.
It really solved a mystery for me since the bizarre things I’d been accused before D-day made no sense and even led me to believe he might have a brain tumor. Furthermore, I’d become paralyzed with fear that, even if his weird accusations were total fabrications, other people might believe them and I might risk losing custody of the children. But he lost that power over me when he admitted trying to use me as a scapegoat by tarring me with all the AP’s character disorders and behavior issue.
I realized the DARVO attacks were partly a way to redirect and vent his resentment towards the AP (and his mother for that matter since the AP was a dead ringer for toxic mommy), partly an attempt to incite me into a pickme dance to prove my floppy passivity and partly because he couldn’t come up with anything terrible I’d actually done (other than– not kidding– refusing to watch Survivor). But once I knew the affair was a screechy, arm-twisting disaster, he lost his chief means of making me pull my punches since any time he accused me of instability or bitchery I would just laugh and point out that “stabby psycho” was clearly his kink and I could hardly compete with the AP on that score.
Just in case I was lulled into the delusion I’d won some kind of pickme dance, I discovered that FW had relied on a very clever strategy to both string the AP along on false hope while never making promises and simultaneously trying to “dog train” her out of using pressure tactics and keep her in her box: trashing the hell out of me. Because all the weird shit he’d criticized me for or accused me of doing before D-day were actually things the AP herself was guilty of, he could use me as a kind of “head on a pike” to indirectly threaten the AP with consequences.
Sure the AP’s hubris, internalized misogyny and hostility against someone who’d never done anything to her made her lap this up and she’s hardly an innocent dupe but at this point it’s actually a bit funny that he thought telling me this might somehow inspire confidence and trust, like “The terrible things I smeared and terrorized you with weren’t true and I was just saying them to manipulate someone else! There’s a kind of even handedness in my sociopathy so let’s stay married!” Yikes.
“Because all the weird shit he’d criticized me for or accused me of doing before D-day were actually things the AP herself was guilty of, he could use me as a kind of “head on a pike” to indirectly threaten the AP with consequences.“
????? Wow. That is some serious mindfuckery right there. Sounds like my FW. He accused me of some really evil stuff, things I would never even think, let alone do. I was shocked. Wow. The disordered truly walk among us.
Thank god you escaped that hellish nightmare!
It sounds like the same thing– that your ex was probably “displacing” the traits of whatever fellow freaks he was consorting with at the time which may be why the charges made no sense and weren’t recognizable. The really top notch, first grade narcs don’t only project their own worst traits and behaviors onto their victims but the also the worst traits/behaviors of anyone who happens to be of use at the moment as a way to avoid lashing out at the latter if doing so would come at a price or risk losing supply.
This is actually how I guessed some pretty specific things about the AP before I even confirmed there was one. For instance, I wasn’t surprised at all to learn from the “whistleblower” that the AP was trying to accidentally-on-purpose get pregnant to expedite divorce because FW– after three kids and years of asking him to get “snipped” because I can’t take the pill and made it clear I didn’t want to get pregnant again– accused me of exactly this out of the blue. Even though he didn’t consciously know the AP was trying to baby trap, he quite clearly knew in his gut she was capable of it. I also knew she was a raging alcoholic since I was once accused of being “drunk” even though I probably hadn’t consumed more than a glass of wine a year since before the first pregnancy. Then finding the secret credit card bill and detailed bar receipts pretty much confirmed the AP was a daily binge drinker.
It was one bizarre accusation after another until he eventually painted quite the detailed psychological portrait.
Yes I filed on #2 after extreme coercive abuse that had silenced me. You can’t even describe it unless you’ve lived it. I was so frightened due to subtle threats and a mask that came off only in private…that a restraining order helped me get distance. Now 2 years later, he is back in church going to Bible school classes where he & new wife speak up on Forgiveness…(per witnesses who feel i need to know.) I am in the 2nd building at a separate service. I was distressed for several hours over my X controlling such a narrative..but then wrote this in my heart.
1. He is no longer touching me against my will
2. No longer hurting my daughter
3. No longer in the same house stuffed to the brim with projects and promises he never kept.
4. He is no longer taking me to places to visit for only one reason and then berating me all the way home.
The list is long and many of you in CN can outdo me for sure. But one thing I know and I’m so proud of. I filed,I locked the door, I did not dance once I knew the truth of his lies, I did not ever go back, I did not forget or forgive his torturous behavior to me. My forgiving is letting him go his way along with the miracles of me the Chump saying enough, gathering up my shattered heart, almost destroyed precious self, my heart burnt to ashes..and saying don’t you EVER touch me or talk to me again. Go ahead and witness about your changed life, new wife, new life, but I am free and learning to love my precious self once again. My joy is back, and there is not one thing he can say or do that out shines the gift of being without him. Nothing.
You should be proud, 2×.
“My forgiving is letting him go his way along with the miracles of me the Chump saying enough, gathering up my shattered heart, almost destroyed precious self, my heart burnt to ashes..and saying don’t you EVER touch me or talk to me again.”
So beautifully put.
I’m proud to tell people I dumped the loser. No shame. I make a joke of it and people seem to enjoy that. For example, a few months ago an elderly woman in my neighborhood asked me if I’m married. I answered “I *was*.” and rolled my eyes. She got the hint right away and we both laughed. Then she told me about her late husband, who sounded like a lovely guy. Oddly, I don’t feel the twinge of envy for good husbands and good marriages that I expected I would when I dumped the FW. I think it’s because I don’t want a husband or a marriage of any sort anymore.
There should be no shame in our game, chumps. We didn’t fail. Our FWs failed and we took appropriate action which saved us from many more years of abuse. So feel free to sing it from the rooftops.
For the win. This is the truth. Even if it is a conscious re-framing, it is a serious victory for any chump to be divorced from a cheater.
As Giselle Pelicot declared “the shame must change sides”. They — who had no business being married to someone on our level — were never worthy of us in the first place. Freedom is our reward. But the shame belongs to the cheaters, now and forever.
Hell yes!
What’s the pay off being married to these walking disasters in our later years?
We can’t depend on clowns like them for anything, let alone the important stuff.
I think we’re all worth so much more.
Thank you..the support out there is limited and short term. It’s good to be here with like minds….
Humor does help things. My ex was a very big college football fan and had his favorite team. It caused a lot of issues because he always went to the games with his friend, which would have been fine except his ex wife and her family had season tickets and he had to tailgate with them every single game. And he had poor boundaries with her in general.
So sometimes when this team comes up, which it does a lot because it’s the biggest college in my state, I’ll tell people that I secretly like it when they lose because it makes my piece of shit ex unhappy.
I’ve found that women in particular laugh at that….many of them have a piece of shit ex so they get it. Lol.
My phony image obsessed ex was absolutely terrified that people would find out what a piece of shit he really was. He’d dated trash whore before he met me in between her many marriages……she married #5 while he was seeing me and has since moved on to #6 while she continues to carry on with my ex. He never told anyone about her…..she’s too dumb to realize that. Or she doesn’t care….whatever.
I really don’t understand what she finds appealing about his shitty toupee, nonworking dick, and shitty job but ex does love bomb and ego stroke and she’s obviously an attention whore.
He also didn’t want a divorce, he didn’t want the “shame” of a second divorce (didn’t seem worried about it when carrying on with the whore) and he also didn’t want to lose our lifestyle (I made a lot more money).
Whatever, I’ve told a number of people what he did and word got around. People know who he is. He buries his head in sand and paints a phony smile on his face but everyone knows what a piece of shit he is. Even his family knows he’s a piece of shit…..I have my sources.
Probably why he’s still single.
“My phony image obsessed ex was absolutely terrified that people would find out what a piece of shit he really was.”
Good for you for walking away!
I could never figure out why my ex, who left a 30 year marriage for what turned out to be a summer fling with the new woman was so angry when he is in my company. He was angry at my youngest sons wedding even though he was with a new girlfriend. Its been 10 years and he still flees like a scared rabbit whenever we are at family functions, cannot even bring himself to speak. I think he is so ashamed he cannot look me in the face. Men think you will never leave, that is their fatal flaw. Women think we can change men, that is our fatal flaw. I stayed for 5 years and tried everything to make it work, he did what he wanted when he wanted no consequences until the day I walked with the clothes on my back and a meditation cushion……
“Men think you will never leave, that is their fatal flaw”–good point (it fits my experience).
I struggle with saying the AP did me a favor because this who situation has been the hardest thing I’ve ever been through and it’s still not done. But she did in that he was an awfulhusband beyond the cheating (as is often the case) and I probably never woulkd have left if it weren’t for the cheating.
He is just an angry and disordered man that sucks the joy out of everything 80% of the time, while being great 20%. Just enough to really leave a chump reeling.
After he came clean about his ongoing affair, he did so many awful things. And eventually he moved out though he really didn’t want to. At some point atfter some distance and a lot of therapy, I went as no contact as possible.(we have kids so it’s not fully NC) And he was so bewildered at losing access to me. Just stunned. He actually said something like “you’ve forgiven me more easilyfor far worse things” and that is true. But he might as well have said “I shit on you for years and years, and just did worse and worse things…why are you NOW deciding to disengage?”
They truly think we will never leave.
“he was an awful husband beyond the cheating (as is often the case) and I probably never would have left if it weren’t for the cheating”–same here, or at least I would have (unwisely) stayed with him 12 more years, until our daughter left for college. Good for both of us for leaving, after D-Day!
I’m pleased and sometimes proud to say that I divorced him. I sometimes mention that he stole tens of thousands of dollars and gave it to a catfish scammer that he never met yet planned to marry. He looks like the fool that he is. Sometimes I tell them about the phony degrees and accomplishments he claims he’s earned, which usually comes as a surprise. And is often followed by their comparison to The Talented Mr. Ripley, although he’s more like The Great Impostor.
Last month, I encountered one of his former work colleagues while I was checking in for monthly low-income services. She was volunteering and was surprised I was there–he had a very high paying job. When she asked what happened to him. I said we were divorced, gave no details. When I saw her this month at the same place, she asked again, and said she and her husband, also his former colleague, didn’t understand. I told her I divorced him because we didn’t have same the same morals, which was why I was there. Since my financial status was verified and she could see I’m elderly and disabled, she knows Mr. Megabucks screwed over wife of decades. And I didn’t say a word about what he did.
Yes. The FW fears being seen for what they truly are: liars, users, manipulators, morally bankrupt, soul-less ghouls! Staying married makes them look “safe.” It is their mask of normalcy.
My FW was such a buddy to so many women. Helping them with their careers. Fawning all over their boob pictures on IG and FB. He even took our kids to pick up garbage at one woman’s house. Hilarious since he never lifted a finger to clean OUR house! But this man is so desperate for kibbles! Then he would come home and berate me for everything.
I felt abused. But I was stuck. At first, I was afraid to be “divorced.” I had never envisioned that as my future.
I felt shame. I went to therapy. Eventually, I said to myself, being divorced only means I’ve lived! I’ve lived through some rough times. And I survived! So what? Who hasn’t? I felt that it was a badge of honor! I gave myself a promotion! I have peace now! I am living FW free!
All marriages end. Sometimes through death and sometimes through divorce. Either way, you’re not special. You’re just human! Just say no thanks to shame!
When I think of FW, I say thank you for getting out of my life! Get behind me satan! 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂