10 Questions to Ask Your Unfaithful Spouse
Did you just discover an affair? Here are 10 questions to ask your unfaithful spouse after D-Day. Assume your cheater will not lead with unvarnished honesty. Ask these questions anyway and pay more attention to their actions than their answers. (Defensiveness is a bad sign.)
Did you use protection?
Get checked for a full panel of STD tests, regardless. Cheaters often live in a magical reality when it comes to unprotected sex. And you may not have all the details of how long they’ve been risking your health. Fun fact: congenital syphillis is on the rise. Don’t wear the shame, doctors are there to help and can help you put together a care plan (this link is to an article written by a physician and former chump).
The very least your cheater can do: STD testing. And let all concerned know if they test positive.
Did the affair happen in the workplace?
Beside from risking your health, the cheater may have risked their job and your financial security by having a workplace affair. They could have used company resources (email, phone) to conduct their double life. Your cheater might be the object of sexual harassment lawsuits (this can happen even with consensual affairs when they sour). Talk to a legal professional. You may want to explore divorce while your spouse still has a job.
The least your cheater can do: Look for another job. Quit working with their affair partner. Sign a post-nup.
Who knows about your affair(s)?
To be chumped is to be conspired against. Prepare yourself for the slow reveal of betrayals as you learn other people knew and didn’t tell you.
The least your cheater can do: Tell you first.
How many affairs have you had?
How great was the risk to your health? Did the double life go on months? Years? Decades? It’s not in a cheater’s best interest to tell you, but the ability to conduct a long double life (or “secret sexual basement“) may be a sign of a Dark Triad personality disorder. Meaning you’re living with an extremely deceptive person. “10 questions to ask your unfaithful spouse” may be a game of duper’s delight for them.
The least your cheater can do. Not breed.
Did anyone get pregnant?
If you think cheaters don’t hide secret children, you haven’t been reading this blog long. Or the Other Woman needs a pregnancy scare to ramp up the triangulation. Or a cheating wife cruelly pawns paternity off on a chump.
The least your cheater can do: Paternity testing. Child support
How much money did you spend on your double life?
Double lives cost money. Insist on a credit report. This will reveal hidden credit cards, P.O. boxes, debts you may not be aware of, and a history of them. Any money spent on an affair is money you can ask back for in a divorce as theft of marital assets.
The least your cheater can do: A post-nup settlement. Signing over an asset worth what they unilaterally spent. A fair divorce settlement.
How did you conduct your affair?
Burner phone? Gaming apps? WhatsApp? Transparency is a game of Whack-a-mole and generally useless, but it’s a good gauge of a cheater’s willingness to cede some power. Are they defensive? Any whiff of You’re Not the Boss of Me is a very bad sign.
The least your cheater can do: Show you their phone. One of them, anyway.
What recompense do you have besides saying sorry?
Sorry is as sorry does. Only the cheater controls whether or not they cheat again. Are they booking those therapy appointments for themselves? Signing a post-nup agreement with an infidelity clause? How deep is that sorry? Test it.
The least your cheater can do: Match behavior to “remorse.” Respectful co-parenting. Honoring legal agreements. Paying support. No character assassination.
What’s his/her name?
How are you going to tell the other chump, if you don’t know the affair partner’s name? Any secrecy around who they were sleeping with is a terrible sign. Knowledge is power.
The least your cheater can do: Tell you who “Bob” on their cellphone really is.
Do you buy sex?
In reconciliation circles there’s this misogynistic idea that using sex workers is somehow less damaging than a physical and emotional affair with someone the cheater purports to love. Uh, buying people is sociopathic. Not to mention costly and highly risky. See STD testing above.
The least your cheater can do: Get out of your life.
Another addition to the list of secret children (for heterosexual male Chumps): Did you have any secret abortions? How many?
So, these are reasonable and logical questions for reasonable and logical people. Cheaters and fuckwits are neither. If you use these as tests to convince yourself that you are doing the right thing by throwing them to the garbage curb, then great. But I can tell you that from my own personal experience and that of my friends, these character disordered fuckwits will appear to capitulate or cooperate and end up lying and failing in the end. Always. A lying liar lies. A cheating cheater cheats. There are NO character transplants occurring. The best thing you can do is get a good lawyer, a cadre of supportive friends, and running shoes so that you can RUN and not look back as much as possible. I tried all these things over an almost 20 year period. It was layers and layers of deceit and sociopathy. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the FIRST time.
Most people who have loved their spouse over a long time through ups and downs of marriage cannot upon discovery instantly transition into seeing them for the FW they really are. Yes, getting far away is ultimately the best choice for most, but there is ground to cover between Point A and Point B. Working through Tracy’s list is a good way to get headed down the road instead of kicking sand over the indignity as the RIC would lead you to do.
Yes, the shock of them seeming to have been replaced by a Changeling so suddenly takes a while to get over, then it takes a while for the cognitive dissonence to recede and for your heart to catch up with your head!
For me, I couldn’t abide the person I saw once the blinders came off my eyes, but for quite a while, even until very recently, I still had love for the person he was, or at least, had APPEARED to be for most of the 15 years we were together. This is how he nearly succeeded in hoovering me after a month, because I was still in that mode and because he mangled my head and made me feel worried for him, as well as guilt-tripping me! Luckily for me, although my heart was way behind, my head did manage to just about retain the ultimate control and I knew I could not allow him to come back. Also, part of me didn’t want him back. Thankfully, my heart and head are in sync now and I don’t want him back at all. The fact that he’s never even made a fake apology, and didn’t even openly admit it, only give himself away with his trickle truths which made sense of what I’d found on his phone, has helped that enormously!
I was reading one of CL archives yesterday and the story was of a man whose wife finally told him she had been unfaithful repeatedly – at least 5 guys – and his first reaction was to say he’d forgive her. Now this guy is in shock and he’s probably desperately trying to cling to his ideas and feelings about her and trying to keep the normalcy of the relationship for him (no kids….yet). Many people do desperately try to cling to and re-establish normalcy but that fades because…..now you know and you can’t unknow. You will always wonder what this person is really like, what they’re doing and what they’re capable of. This is what the recon people don’t get – even if you “forgive” them and don’t hate them….you probably will never feel the same way towards them again. For me, it’s about a lack of respect – respect for me, for our family, for our way of life and what they are capable of doing, lying, deceiving, having sex in places like behind dumpsters or in cars, etc. This is not the behavior of respectable people who are in charge of their lives. This is the behavior of people controlled by their genitals and their egos and that is NOT admirable or respectable or likable, and at some point that IS going to affect how you view your unfaithful partner going forward. That’s why the marriages fail ultimately no matter what intent people have for recon.
For me, it would be simple if it happened again. I couldn’t put my head on a pillow and sleep next to a cheater willing to gut me like a fish.
Exactly. If we’d have known they were so degenerate when we’d first met them, we wouldn’t have wanted to know them at all, never mind marry the buggers!
Once you realise they really are that degenrate, no matter how much shock and cognitive dissonence you’re in at first, it does alter the way you see them profoundly and forever. Those who want to save the marriage usually want the person who appeared to love them back, the fake person, the fantasy, rather than the person the cheat actually IS in reality. The mask has fallen off and shattered though, so there’s no going back to fantasyland- we have to trudge on into reality!
This is what I keep telling myself, At first I desperately wanted to keep the marriage. Deep down I know I can never trust her, and will never forget the betrayal.
That’s the thing – you and Bruno (below) are decent people, you want to love, you want to forgive, you want to do the best for your kids, you want to go back to normalcy….but most of us just can’t. It’s not about not forgiving or not wanting too (although those can obviously be true and are fine)….it’s about how you view the person now. You know this is part of who they are, you know now what they’re capable of, and could be capable of in the future, and you probably no longer respect or admire them because….most people DO NOT LIKE liars or cheats….it’s kind of built in to human nature. I think people sometimes overlook cheating because they are willing to put up with an “arrangement” just to keep the marriage & spouse, but to me that means you’re turning the spouse into an “appliance” just like they did to you. You’re keeping them for transactional purposes, whether it’s how the affect the kids, or money, or public status or some other reason. That’s not love, love is not just affection, it has other bases as well and I think respect and trust are at the core of spousal love. Maybe other kinds as well.
Mehitable, I do truly know that. The first couple of months after D-Day I would have absolutely taken her back no matter what. Then, I found CL/CN. The book, podcast, this group, the FB group, all of it has helped me realize that this is 100% on her. And deep down I know I’ll never be able to trust her, or forget the betrayal. I’m defiantly moving along, sometimes I wish I was wired like some of you and could have just tossed her shit in garbage bags on the front lawn after D-Day, Those of you wired that way have my respect. Thanks to everyone in this group, you are all mighty… and I’m getting there
This was my initial response too. Fortunately, a good therapist and continued scheming on her part turned my head around.
Amen. A small part of me is still hanging on. I’ve got my list, and logically I am done, but there is still a small emotional part that is being stubborn.
Let it go and your heart will catch up pretty quickly if you don’t feed the fantasy of what the cheater seemed to be.
It took a while for my heart to totally catch up with my head as well, but it got there. I think it’s quite common and I’d say it’s normal! Yours will too, just keep reading your list Bruno, and reminding yourself of what she did and all the lies she’s told and they’ll gradually start to sync with each other.
If you did have her back, your mind knows a different person to the one your heart still has love for. As the “loved” person is not the real her, and your mind does know the real her, you would not be happy at all and ultimately, the marriage wouldn’t work for you! Your mind would never be able to un-see the deceitful, devious , treacherous degenerate your cheating wife really is! Keep asking yourself, would you have even given her the time of day had you known she was capable of sinking so low this back when you first met? I bet you wouldn’t!
Your heart wants what it wants. It will betray you in these situations. Repeated infidelity is common. How’d you like to go through it again 2, 5, 10 years later?
I’m right there with you. On my 4th (that I know of) time being chumped. HUGE list for even considering recon; hard “toss him out on his ass” date coming up.
Kinda looking forward to him failing miserably. He’s not known for thinking about others or doing hard work, but I can leave the marriage knowing I did all the work, made all the attempts, to save the relationship without any “what ifs” in my rearview mirror.
Yes, I know I did all that I could
Totally understandable, but.you are probably projecting your moral world view onto them.
I agree the whole premise of asking a lying liar who lies questions is sketchy. But I wrote this article to match the sorts that show up RIC articles when a new chump Googles. And you’ll note not a single question asked about the cheater’s motivations or internal state. Just the particulars about the harm they were inflicting and how they can make tangible, IRL recompense for that harm.
Yes, good job. And it’s important for chumps to remember they’re dealing with a liar and to keep eyes open for actual truth, e.g., you get a bad result on an STD test or divorce discovery reveals a second AP.
They didn’t feel “loved” or “happy” (all soft ambiguous statements of emotion) or they weren’t getting their “needs” met. Or they just wanted more sex or different kinds of sex and didn’t want to “hurt” the Chump. They tell each other what to say….CheaterSpeak.
It is always something you did. You preferred yellow dishware to green. You like pepsi not coke, etc. etc. The real secret? It wasn’t you. It never was you.
Tracy, I get the premise of mirroring the RIC clickbait articles. Honestly if I saw THIS list first, I like to think I would’ve had a “holy shit, cheating is abuse” moment and saved myself the 6 month process of coming up with these questions on my own bit by bit. And IMO – any answer to they give to some of these hard questions is going to reveal dysfunction.
Or their defensiveness and/or unwillingness to give an answer.
Exactly!
In a way, I want to disagree a bit, Tracey. You’re always preaching “Leave a cheater,” and “don’t untangle the skein,” and “don’t stick your head in the mindfuck blender,” and most of these questions seem to be geared toward giving fuckwit centrality. Cheaters (at least the two I had to deal with) probably won’t tell you the truth to this stuff anyway. If they are capable of betraying you, they already don’t care enough to be honest. And “truthful” doesn’t mean “honest.” (Like in my first wife’s case, “I didn’t “sleep” with him,” was the truth… There was no sleeping involved. Yes, she actually did this.)
ASKING about all of these things is less productive than just assuming that the answers are whatever the worst case scenario is and acting accordingly, to wit:
Truthfully, some of these questions are only worth asking if you’re considering reconciling. Some are only important if you’re trying to gather information for divorce. If you’re lucky, fuckwit will tell you these things in the hope that you’re thinking about reconciling. Chances are they won’t be truthful with you anyway.
The answer to almost all of these questions you can assume if you follow Tracey’s most important advice (in my opinion) and “Trust that they suck.” If you follow that advice, you can just assume many of the answers…
I don’t disagree with your point about FWs and putting your head in the mindfuck blender.
However, lots of newbies here are still on the hopium pipe, tiptoeing around the FW’s stonewalling and lies and gaslighting. Asking these questions and really paying attention to not only the [probably lying[ answers would have some power of revelation. That is, for example, if FW is unwilling to name the AP or talk about how much money they spent on the affair, the Chump can see that the “I’m sorry” and the “It was a mistake” is just a front for “I don’t want any consequences.” For those of us who are already Chump Nation veterans, we’re already onto “no [or low BIFF] contact” and/or gray rock or medium-chill co-parenting.”
We know whatever we know is just the tip of the iceberg. But for newbies, the little they know is shocking and the urge to believe the fine lying words is strong.
👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻TRUTH
I agree with all you say, but I think these questions provide a starting point, at least in the Chump’s own mind, of how to process this nightmare they’ve been plunged into. When this starts up, your world breaks down….I had a literal breakdown and couldn’t function for days. It helps you to focus, at least internally, on making it “real” and what kind of things you would like to know. It makes the affair “real” and starts the process of dealing with it. Where you start out with and where you end up with are probably very different things. Once the trauma and the RIC propaganda and the fear of breaking up the family wear off…..I think most people realize they can’t stay married to someone who would do these things to them and the family. You can’t trust or respect someone like this.
Oh, I agree that “asking the questions” can provide a starting point for processing. The problem is that the answers are almost irrelevant, and we, naturally, will tend to get hung up on them because we are hurt and confused and want answers. Fuckwits capitalize on this… “Getting the answers” is much less helpful psychologically, and much less useful practically, than just assuming the worst possible answer.
Assuming the worst possible answer takes enormous courage and self-efficacy. I’m glad that’s where you find yourself. But in many cases, religious and economic pressures–and complications like a newborn or a child with medical problems–weigh heavily on the reconciliation side.
Spot on vetbod8472
I totally agree with you. In the comment above (and in my snark sprinkled throughout) I explained I’m writing this article for newbie chumps — for the Google gods — so they wash up here instead of the RIC.
Most chumps try reconciliation. And if you’re going to try it, ask these questions. For real. And you’ll see very quickly that you do not have a unicorn, because cheating is about power and entitlement. And to provide recompense, or show humility, or be fair would not be maintaining the power seat.
Think of it as a thought experience about Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse.
That’s true. Asking these questions is probably the surest way to figure out that reconciliation isn’t a viable option. But then again, I don’t think that reconciliation is viable anyway. I think “staying together” is possible, but only if you’re willing to accept that you’ll never make it past “comfortable.”
Of course “comfortable” means different things to different people… I’m a 25 year military veteran, so comfortable, to me, means “not in so much pain/stress I can’t function.” It DOESN’T mean “happy,” safe,” or “satisfied.”
We won’t disagree that reconciliation is not “viable,” or to put it more baldly, a bad and self-destructive, time-wasting idea. But if you are a 25-year military vet, you are probably not a SAH mother with a toddler and a newborn and no car or income. The calculations for some new chumps are brutal and it takes tremendous courage (and likely support from family) to just kick the cheater to the curb (metaphorically).
I understand that there are lots of complicated parts to dealing with a cheating spouse… I’m not trying to belittle anyone’s mightiness, OR HESITATIONS. I’m a chump too. My second wife cheated and I forgave, and stayed, and danced for four years… I’m sharing my thoughts because they are what got me through my FIRST wife’s betrayal. (And I should have listened to them during my second’s…) There was almost nothing of the truth in any answer EITHER ONE gave, and I eventually realized that I was better off just assuming the answers were whatever the worst possible answer was. (Yes, I DNA tested our children and yes, they turned out to be mine.) I have no idea what “SAH mother” means, but I fought for, and GOT, custody of my kids. Which up until somewhat recently was nearly impossible as a father, (and still is not terrifically easy,) and ended up having to raise two children alone WHILE being in the military. Believe me, it wasn’t an easy or quick decision to make to get rid of her, and I am sorry if I made it sound like it was. But, those realizations helped me make the decision, and I believe it was the right one, no matter how hard things were afterwards.
That’s what I believe too. I know I will never forget her betrayal. I tried for too long to do this. Fortunately or unfortunately for me she is still showing no interest in reconciling, so she is making the decision for us.
It’s as well she isn’t, because that’ll help you to detach from her sooner. The longer you have no contact with them, the better too. My FW hasn’t made any more overt attempts to hoover me back for 6 months now, although there were a few covert attempts for a while. They were easy to ignore though!
Just be on guard though; she might not be wanting to come back for now, but those with PDs can disappear out of your life for ages then pop back up trying to hoover you, sometimes after so long you’ve nearly forgotten all about them. Hopefully , if she does, it’ll be when you no longer want anything to do with her at all and have moved on to full Meh!
You will get to meh, OTL. You will. You will heal and grow and thrive once you are away from her.
“She is showing no interest in reconciling” Why consider reconciling? You will NEVER forget the betrayal. You have one life, don’t waste it on her. SHE DOES NOT DESERVE YOU!
I know this. I’ve thought about and worked on myself, and I know it it low self esteem and horrible co-dependency that is keeping me stuck. I’m MUCH further along than I was a few months ago, pre finding CL and CN
Imagine this: you walk away and see your self-esteem begin to rise. And you learn that co-dependent BEHAVIOR can be changed, like quitting eating a bag of M&Ms every day. You don’t HAVE “codependency”; you enable bad behavior by acting co-dependently. (This I know from life experience.)
Mine never really answered much of the few I asked. But it did reveal to me that I’d never get the answers I needed. He nearly immediately turned it around making it all about HOW I found out.
Also when I was aghast at what he did tell me, he said, and I quote: “You know I do stupid things when I’m drunk”. I found out that day that yes, he had been hiding a much much worse alcoholism problem than I had ever even suspected he had.
So it was eye opening, even if it wasn’t any sort of potential for reconciliation. It allowed me to realize that no amount of questions would get me the entire truth, but those few questions did give me the answers I needed (I would never be able to trust him ever again).
It helped me realize that yes, I was sane, and all the weird gaslighting and crazy stuff I thought was my issue was real and actually was him being an absolute monster to me for a long time. Oddly enough, I felt better. It let me let him go much more completely than if I hadn’t asked.
See, once you confronted him, the pivot to blaming you shows you had nothing to work with.Good that you see that.
My wife was very upset that I found out about the affair by seeing texts on her phone, after she handed it to me for something else. In her mind my crime was worse than hers.
Oh that is SO typical of cheats, and of those with Cluster B personality disorder traits in general!
Never mind her and her bollix, she’s trying to deflect and DARVO you! You’ve caught her bang to rights and it was a fair cop Guv! Don’t let her twist it onto you, the cheeky cow!
Well…..your “crime” was finding out. She F’d around and got Found Out.
Yes, this was the same for me. Apparently I had invaded his privacy and that was so shocking. I ended up just agreeing and saying “Yes I invaded your privacy, I apologize, now let’s get to the real discussion.” It really disarmed his argument. He was expecting me to start arguing about that. Since I didn’t and I apologized, he was kind of gobsmacked. Since he would never, ever admit any wrongdoing, it never occurred to him that I would.
Now he kept trying to indicate that it was worse than what he did, but that wasn’t my discussion. Comparing crimes was not on my agenda whether I was right or wrong to do what I did.
I like the list. At DDay we waste a lot of time on the “whyyyy??” and the “Do you loooove her/him?” and other things that are meaningless when dealing with a character disordered FW. We’re going to ask questions; might as well include some useful ones.
Most of these things came out while FE was still in shock that I found out, not necessarily but directly asking but also by pretending I knew (“oh, Kristen, that’s it’s name. Interesting.”).
Some answers are telling even if it’s not truthful or gives you no useful information. No, he didn’t use a condom, but just twice! (Well if two times is “just” two, this clearly isn’t a “mistake” as FW called it, it was a damn lifestyle choice). He had no idea if she could even get pregnant (oblivious and misogynistic – babies are her problem). My favorite response was to the “how long/how many affairs” question. He responded by typing a list of all the women he could have slept with during our marriage, but (allegedly) didn’t. This… Just so many levels of yuck and entitlement. All I can say is…bitch cookie!
Finally, getting answers to these difficult questions can reveal lies later – and not immaterial lies, but lies that affect your health and well-being. Things like this chip away at the mask whether you get the answers or not. Either way you’ll reveal more of exactly who you’re dealing with.
Bitch cookie!
A list? Wow.
This is a great window into how they think. “Hey I did something terrible, but look how much worse it could have been (I had hoped it could have been)?” How many of those women did he try to sleep with and just got rejected? Wow.
I got “But she and I went 30 years without having sex…” and I didn’t let him finish because why does that matter to me now? Seriously? Good for you!
Bitch cookie!
I get it…why these questions are posted. Most people at D-day (discovery day) will be searching for answers…and most of them will be trying to figure out how to keep their life from falling apart. Most will not come to the snap conclusion that they should leave a cheater. Most of us have to be gently guided there. But first they will be looking for answers to these questions & the hope is they will find Chump Nation instead of or in addition to the reconciliation industry. Got it. Smart thinking, Chump Lady!
If I had found this site before SI, I would be at least 8 years single now, instead of getting chumped again.
I swear my posting got posted before I was even done. Thank goodness for the edit button now. But I think this site should come with a warning that you can lose what you write because you might get bumped off for some reason….so copy your work at least once in case that happens.
Even though the evidence that our children found about her affair (and told me about) was utterly incontrovertible, Ex-Mrs LFTT denied it then and – nearly 9 years later – continues to deny it.
If I’d have asked those 10 questions then I’d have got at least 10 (and probably a whole load more) lies back. And there’s no way I’d bother asking her now; I wasted 26 years of my life with her and I see no need to waste even another second of my life on her …. particularly if I know that she’ll just fill it with more self-serving lies.
The “trust she sucks” is strong with me.
LFTT
Cognitive dissonance caused by cheating is not to be acknowledged by FW’s. Avoidance and denial are preferable. Just as well. Who wants to deal with their shit anyway?
Bruno,
For Ex-Mrs LFTT the truth is a foreign country and she chooses not to apply for the Visa in her Passport to get there.
LFTT
Really grateful for Tracy’s recent emphasis on confronting the RIC (including therapists) narrative directly. I hope Chump Nation will share these powerful posts when they see/hear nonsense in any setting including legal and health care.
11) Do you need the weekend to clear out your stuff, or would you prefer that I pile it on the curb for you?
Or 12) Are you willing to sign a post-nuptial agreement that I get the house, –% of all assets and full custody of the kids if you cheat again? [Fill in the blank.]
😂 👍
I asked her about half of these questions, along with a million other standard Chump questions. On some the answers stayed the same, on others they changed, usually in the wrong direction. Probably the most hurtful was about recompense besides saying she was sorry. The affair was just a lapse in judgement. She smugly calls me an abuser, for everything under the sun, but argues when I tell her that her betrayal was abuse that it wasn’t a big deal. Almost like, you left your socks on the floor, I fucked another man behind your back… same thing.
Bernie Madoff probably wasn’t too upset about screwing over all his clients either. Think of it – when we talk about abusing people frequently we USE SEXUAL LANGUAGE – like screwing over or fucking over….because we can feel the link between different types of abuse, like financial abuse – that often goes along with the sexual.
Great point.
It’s the grandiosity and entitlement of the narcissist – in their mind, it is abuse when a person fails to fully appreciate just how magnificent they are. They are the best, and they deserve happiness. As they are superior, so too is their suffering. No one suffers more than the narcissist (grandiosity), and if they are unhappy, it must be someone else’s fault (entitlement). Also, their wants and needs are constantly shifting, and never met. My ex cited a lack of emotional support, not enough compliments or words of appreciation, and not enough dates. To her, that was abuse, as evidenced by the fact that she thought her cheating was completely justified, and therefore of approximate moral equivalence. That’s why we all have ridiculous stories of what our exFWs thought was lacking: i.e., bagged salads. My father, who was an absolute creep to my mother and cheated constantly, complained that she didn’t “appreciate his gardening enough.”
CDC, this is very true. The ex was not entirely successful at work where he was a lawyer in a law firm. He was continually passed over for partnership, and often by his workplace friends. He had been told that he had to identify his niche and market his services, standard law firm requirements for partnership. You need to bring in the business. When he was having a petulant rant about this, I said what I’ve just said ‘standard law firm stuff’. I should add that I was a partner at a different law firm which annoyed him. His response: ‘ I should not have to sell my services, it should be obvious how good I am’. And he applied this attitude to every aspect of his life. In consequence, he ‘added value’ to nothing. I always knew this about him, but accepted it as part of the human being he was, not just with me but with everyone. ExgfOW recognised and strived for his magnificence. I understand that, outside the fantasy, it’s not living up to expectations. It never could because of the big nothing in the middle of the man.
“Big nothing in the middle of the man” really stikes a cord with me! I look back and see now that I always sensed a sort of “hollowness” in my STBXH, but I never allowed the thought to fully form because I felt bad about it. I often felt starved of deep, meaningful conversation with him and felt bad about those thoughts as well! I’d push it away and tell myself it was female friendship and conversation I was missing, the sort I have with my best mate in England, but lack here in Ireland.
Now I realise I was rationalising, to assuage my guilt at perceiving his lack of depth and poor communication skills, inability/refusal to set appropriate or reasonable boundaries with his FOO and even extended family, and his utter lack of assertiveness. We could have a laugh together alright, and he was very funny but we only ever had serious conversations about things that directly affected him, usually something or someone he was cribbing and moaning about. Like most FWs, nothing was ever HIS fault, of course!
No wonder I became drained and depleted, a shell of the person I used to be!
“in their mind, it is abuse when a person fails to fully appreciate just how magnificent they are.”
Ain’t that the truth, and their feeling that they are magnificent rests on very little. As an excuse for cheating, mine used the claim that I wasn’t sufficiently thrilled with him for having a job. Each time he tried that one I’d ask him if he wanted a parade/brass band/fireworks display to celebrate his unique ability to stay gainfully employed. I got the narc rage in response, but it was worth it for the laughs. How ridiculous they are.
OLT, it sounds like you’re still with her. If so, get the hell away from that gaslighting freak. *You’re* the abuser because you failed at the perfection she felt you owed her? Oh fuck that. Expect her to have been telling people you abused her, too. Prepare to defend yourself. You might want to record those conversations or install a camera to prove she’s lying.
Mine said “do you think that I owe you?” when I called her on “sorry isn’t good enough.” Mine gas-lit me with the “abuse” thing too-my having emotional needs and being paranoid about the (what turned out to be very real) affair was apparently abusive. So I know the feeling. Mine also changed the answers a few times-I can’t tell if it was part of the ongoing headgame/punishment for calling her out or if she can’t keep her betrayals straight. Either way, mine is gone and I hope yours is, too. Stay mighty!
Divorce is final in two weeks.
👍👍👍
I know this post is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but if you can manage to ask questions like this and maintain some emotional flatness, it is really disarming to the cheater and delightful to watch their discomfort. This is obviously very hard to do, because when you make your discoveries, you are an emotional mess – you are in traumatic shock, and a state of emotional crisis.
I was able to manage it because my last Dday was not my first rodeo. She had cheated years earlier and we did the reconciliation thing. By the time final Dday came around, I had known for months and already had an exit strategy. I think she expected lots of emotional fanfare, with “why did you do this? don’t you love me?!” followed by “well, you weren’t emotionally supportive enough!!” etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. I think she expected forgiveness and the emotional high of watching me jump through hoops like a circus poodle to win her back.
What she got was a bunch of pointed questions delivered by me with no visible emotion, and she looked like a flaccid, deflated balloon.
I’d like to have been a fly on the wall for that one ChumpDDump1 Fair feckin’ play to you!!
Great comment. Some of my proudest moments were getting an answer to a question and responding with detached distaste – “Really? Gross.” Especially when you consider the answer was probably a minimization or sugar-coated to start with. The light of day really kills the whole romanticization of their exciting edgy sexy “affair.”
Lol, that’s delightful. “Really? Gross.” So good.
Yes, because they live for the centralization. They love being begged for love, attention, etc. They do NOT like being grilled with the inference that they are the criminal.
The only time I actually saw what could be considered discomfort coming from my ex was when I asked these type of questions. And it really ticked him off when I finally cut him off and said I didn’t need to hear any more because I had heard enough and I was done. His inability to control me was painful for him.
But absolutely freeing for me. I realized that I couldn’t trust anything he said and that I was done with it. Also, that I WASN’T GOING CRAZY. Things were wrong and this crap was happening. Years of therapy to find out that yes, he was really actually trying to make me crazy.
People who don’t go through this really don’t understand the crazy-making. Maybe people think infidelity involves you walking into your marital bedroom to discover your ex in flagrante dilicto with another person, when in actuality it is years of lies, evasions, gaslighting, suspicious behavior, and generally messing with your sense of reality.
Email the TLC (traitorous lying cheater) with your questions so any answers you get are documented.
That has come in handy to my advantage too many times to count.
Yes to getting stuff in writing, if possible. My ex was stupid that way, which is odd because I always considered him smart. Guess not.
Here’s one example of what he wrote::
Him: Is your lawyer going to ask me about all the other women.
Me.: What? All the other women?
Him: Hubada hubada …ummm…I didn’t mean that….
I copied and pasted the relevant evidence and sent it off to my lawyer.
So true. I got reams of texts and emails of FW admissions, stuff he would not want others to know. So in case he causes me any problems in the future, there they are.
I have found tremendous value in getting the answers to some of these questions. I wish I had not hesitated to hire a PI at the beginning, which is a better way of getting the truth but I do also like getting Traitor Ex to commit things to writing. It has a way of eliciting the truth or giving me the ability to use what he has said against him/them. I have a PI now…retired Special Agent with the FBI for 26 years….in Forensics. We are now looking into money Traitor Ex hid during the marriage which he/they are now laundering through an illicit massage parlor and escort service and real estate purchases. The investigation and the lawsuit, if and when filed, includes the OW and we’ll be able to get into her finances as well. The divorce was final two years ago but the discovery continues. There is such a thing as “filing to recover an omitted asset” and the trouble they get into for doing that is big and real.
All the information you can get might come in very handy someday. It has for me. Infidelity hijacks your mind for a very long time. Some things don’t occur to you until much later, and some things I was just not able to deal with for a long time. Best to be prepared with any and all intel you can gather.
She who laughs last laughs loudest.
I am patient.
I remember at the time minimizing the buying sex for the reason you gave – probably some internalized misogynism, probably some denial/panic, ugh. But you are right — it is sociopathic. The more I thought about it, the more I knew I needed to end things, because if he could do something like that, what else could he do? I was not going to remain married to a sociopath. I told him he needed to get an STD test, and he obliged (bitch cookie), but it took me another couple of months to get one myself. So much hurt and shame knowing how he used me and our relationship as a front for his secret sexual basement, and I knew I could not take his word for his “safety” in using other people when communicable disease was in the mix. I’ll never try to rationalize this kind of thing again. There is something deeply wrong with someone who engages in buying and using people like this.
I asked these questions and all I got were lies lies and more lies…. Gaslighting. Then rage. DARVO, blameshifting. All tactics designed to control and manipulate me and prevent me from imposing consequences and saving myself from his further abuse. How DARE I ask anything of him when “I was the reason he was so miserable that he HAD to abuse me/the kids (false equivalencies)….” Sickening. I wish I’d saved my breath and the 18 weeks of extreme trauma suffered after Ddday during false wreconciliation. I wish I’d kicked his ass out on day 1, hired my excellent lawyer, gone no contact… put all that effort into saving myself and my kids. I knew everything I needed to know- he wasn’t who I thought and was a liar and a cheater. But, I didn’t know about narcissists, sociopaths. I know now. If a newly chumped is reading this— get away. Today! Do not wait. Don’t ask these questions. Save yourself. Lawyer up. Go no contact. It’s the only path to peace.
In the first shattering moments you are like a person in freezing water paddling around the Titanic. Maybe it won’t sink and you can continue on to the safe port.? Its a huge shock even if you guessed it.
Yes yes yes!! All those things. My two cheaters 34 years apart had the YOU’RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME AND YOU drove me to it by..(.a million reasons). One cheater told me on D day that he had seen a doctor so he was clean. All my STIs were my problem. My 2nd cheater had a work place affair, was called to HR and they were both reprimanded and told not to see each others again. His AP was.told she would be fired but my former husband would be Transferred.. Discrimination any? Also, my former husband threw his AP under the bus and blamed her for raping HIM.!!!!!ahhhh….blame is a huge signal that you have nothing to work.with. ZILCH.NADA. I filed before he lost his job which he did. So much help here on CN!! Bless you.Tracy!
It’s a great list for those prepared to be honest- which would be a rare beast among the disordered.
As for sorry- hahaha!!
He isn’t sorry and doesn’t feel any recompense is due at all- unfortunately for him, the law doesn’t work like that in Australia.
Several of the questions I asked I actually already knew the answer, so when he lied, it confirmed my suspicions. I would never get truth from him. So at least it kept me from asking any more of him. No sense in asking what I did wrong when he can’t even be honest about the basic truth. Might as well ask a rock what its motivations are. Useless.
Yes- confirmation was all I was after too- I knew.
When I stood in front of him asking him some questions, he wouldn’t even take my appropriated sunglasses he was wearing off and look me in the eyes.
We know it just as we know they’re lying liars who lie.
I think I asked my ex about half of these when my head was still clear(D-Day heartbreak in progress-like t+5 minutes from “the bomb”.) Some of them I did not see as applicable and am now wondering, but I will leave that Skein for a saner and stabler someone else.
I do not expect that she was completely honest with any of them-it took a few different iterations of some of these questions to get a partial answer(the story on how many times/when she cheated changed pretty much every time I asked was a big one.)
I’d advise newly minted chumps(if they have the mind/will for it) to press for that information if there is any sort of evasion(mine definitely attempted to side step-accountability is not something cheaters seem to gel with)-not that they can expect any kind of honesty. I think like a lot of the Chump Nation, mine doubled down. My single favorite reader comment here ever has been “tantrums of the dysregulated.”
The huge one she straight up flunked(ie, got completely belligerent about) was the “what recompense” one-I guess “sorry was supposed to be good enough”? “Sorry your heart got broken and all.”
I think a good eleventh question is “what else did you do to cover everything up?” Perhaps I simply construct this differently-I see it as a little difference from “how did you conduct the affair?” Part and parcel to the whole “how deep does the betrayal and disrespect go?” Mine got really good at the end at insisting we go to “new to us” restaurants where she was suspiciously familiar with the menu. I think it was guilt and the realization that the double life thing was far more trouble than it was worth at that point.
Nearly 5 months in, I like where these questions are going-particularly in the early phases. Sadly I think the honest answers to a lot of these is just going to regress my healing and make me more confident in No Contact.
Stay Mighty, all!
I’m so sorry. I got caught. 😢. I’ll hide it better next time.😇
And sometimes you’ll never get the answers and you’ll have to make peace with this.
I know I’ll not get the full truth out of my FW now, but I neither need nor want it because what I do know is more than enough to know I’m finished with him and could never have him back.
I think that in some cases , asking these sort of questions could be useful though, it depends on what variety of FW you’re confronting I suppose and each FW has their own twist on being a FW that each chump knows best, I’d imagine.
Even if of no genuine use, asking these questions could be amusing if only to make the FW squirm, hehehe! You’d just need to be in the right frame of mind i.e. cold, calm, collected and contemptuous, not in shock, agony or any way vulnerable.
Yes, you can drive yourself crazy for nothing.
1.Probably sometimes.
2.Probably sometimes.
3.Probably his best male work buddies.
4.At least several dozen “encounters”. Maybe hundreds?
5.No. (Don’t ask me how I know this.)
6.I’ll never know.
7.Via Adult friend finder and other “Escort” websites.
8.He did not admit, did not say sorry, did not recompense. Only DARVO.
9.I have compiled a list of dozens of sexy& cute “stage names”. And I have their numbers too.
10.Yes, he buys sex. He buys women…. He buys people’s bodies.
One thing about affairs in the workplace and lawsuits spawned from them, they could still lose their job even if the AP didn’t report them. Part of training includes if they cause discomfort among other people in the workplace. All it would take is someone else even KNOWING they are having an affair for this all to blow up in their face at the job level.
Workplace affairs are extremely risky, I’m sure it is part of the attraction for many cheaters in that way. Oh wow, so dangerous. Oh wow, so stupid.
Yep, a hostile workplace is not just about the cheater and partner, it is about the effect on other workers who have to work around it, or lose opportunities to the woman or man who is stumping the boss, etc.
I have seen workplace affairs SO MANY TIMES and some of them have been truly bizarre. One medical place I worked at the the lead administrator was a drunken strumpet. Her name was Dawn. One day we were missing one of our leading doctors, he kept getting paged over and over again till he finally emerged from her office trying to fit his clothes back on and zipping up his pants. We said he saw …..the Crack of Dawn. Sometimes these people get quite far in their careers – another dilly I know used a guy (whom she stole from his wife) to end up as a VP in the field. I hate to say it, but I have seen a lot of really bad women riding the coattails….or something else….of really crappy men, and the rest of us hated it and them. Dropping a dime is SO worthwhile.
I wish there had been repercussions at my FW’s work. I found out that almost everybody there knew, and many resented being forced to look at it every day, but nobody reported it to upper management, even though they were often taking extra long lunches they weren’t supposed to take. What have we come to as a society where a blatant workplace affair, often conducted on company time, is considered acceptable? It’s disgusting. That’s taking a live and let live attitude way too far.
Often, it’s the fear of losing a job. I would bet that if they felt secure in their job position, they would have said something.
My impression of some of them was that they were drunken losers who were hanging on to the job by the skin of their teeth, but others seemed like they were okay. I think it might have been because FW is a people pleaser (with everyone but his wife and kids) and helped a lot of them with their work. He would come home and whine that he spent most of his day solving other people’s problems, but that was his choice. He just had to be liked and would not say no. Naturally, they wanted to keep him around. So yeah, it was probably about self interest.
It’s not just about being good at your job – plenty of workplaces will trash perfectly good workers without a second thought. Although, you could be correct about the favors.
These are all essential questions and CL once again hits it out of the park. But you may have to ask these repeatedly because…..they all lie….and truth is usually found out over time. I think Chumps have to ask themselves how much info is enough. Some people need more info to make the behavior “real” in their minds, to be able to accept it, others want it for the settlement, for others it might be practical info about who to avoid (all those who knew) or some combination of these.
I think some critical questions to ask yourself are: Would I marry someone knowing this is what they will do? Is this person with this behavior the person I want to spend the rest of my life with? Now that I know this, is this the person I really want? If I think I’m in love with this person, why do I love them? What is lovable at this point? Many people stay for the children but….is this what you would like your children to model? Is your spouse someone you want to see influencing your kids all the time? Do you want to see your child become like the spouse or like…a Chump? For me the key element would be RESPECT…..Can I still respect this person? Can I be with someone I no longer respect and/or admire? Or trust? For me, the answer would be no. I have been in situations where someone did something, not necessarily sexual, but something that made me not respect them anymore and the relationship was never the same. I just can’t view them the same or feel the same about them. It’s not about forgiveness, it’s about how I feel about this person now, how I view them, and what kind of relationship I want with them going forward. Saying you love someone is usually about level of attraction and comfortableness you have with them….like old slippers. But you don’t wear those old slippers out in public, there comes the issue of do I respect this person? Do I admire them? Do I trust them? Love, to me, is the least important factor.
For all the questions, good questions, we can ask the unfaithful, I think the most important questions are the ones we have to ask ourselves.
The questions might suggest whether hiring a PI is a good idea, not to follow the cheater around but rather to dig into a past that may be helpful in court.
Trust us the decider.
Without that, there is nothing.
Because the unfaithful lie SO MUCH and routinely I would assume the answers to a lot of these questions. That they did NOT use protection (even if they did it may not be enough), that I should have the kids DNA tested, that there probably are other people and situations and info and I’m just seeing the tip of the iceberg. I think it’s safe to assume the worst and act on that. Don’t assume they’re gonna change either, no matter what they say, most of them don’t want to change and CHANGE IS HARD. Even losing weight or stop smoking is hard. Stop cheating is far harder for them because most don’t want to and they’ve turned it into a WAY OF LIFE. The only area I would investigate as thoroughly as possible is HOW MUCH MONEY DID THEY USE TOWARDS THIS because that may be substantial and you might be able to prove it and get some or all back.
Personally I always de-emphasize “love” because that’s so often a bunch of bullshit, and focus on RESPECT, ADMIRATION, AND TRUST. I like to use movies to illustrate points and I would use “High Noon” in this context. Many of you have seen it – a bunch of bandits are coming to town and only one man, the sheriff, stands against them and the entire town turns down his pleas for help, to back him up. Some of the scenes show things like a cowardly townsman getting his wife to make excuses for him to the sheriff. I don’t think I could ever respect that man again for his cowardice in even avoiding the sheriff, and I wondered how a person can continue to be happily married to someone like that. It’s not about sex, but you see something essentially ugly about a person that really changes how you view them and what kind of relationship you want to have with them. We don’t tend to think in these terms today because we focus on the soft uncertainty of “love”…..RESPECT as Aretha sings….I think it’s more important. Do you respect me, or respect yourself or your kids?
POS cheater hated it whenever I asked any questions. He was defensive and full of rage. In my early days I would go through which questions I wanted to ask him and spend so much wasted time thinking about how I could engage with him so that it wouldn’t turn into a raging argument. Poor poor me. I look back and feel so sorry for the person that I had become. Tip-toeing to see if I could just have a decent conversation. I mean if he loved me like he said, would he not see how hurt I was? Would he not realize that I needed some clarity to know wtf was going on? Nope, it was all about him and how I ruined his good mood by asking questions. MF fuckhead. Good riddance. I have peace now. No looking over my shoulder. Not constantly trying to look through his phone to get some answers. They can all fuck off for all I care.
He knew if he raged, you’d stop asking. It’s a common reaction. Mine did the same.
When he announced to me that he’d been having an affair and thought he’d be “happier with her,” I was (obvi) shocked. And in the state of shock, I fired off several questions:
*How long? [2 1/2 years]
*Who is she? [nurse/co-worker; much younger]
*Who knew? [no one. We were good at keeping it secret? Oh wait. X and y might have known. That prompted me to write emails to those other nurses. Ugh]
*Where and when did you have sex?–[Interestingly enough, my ex seemed more than happy to answer this question. It’s as if he was dying to share. He said they’d had sex on our bed and the sofa.They often met at the Hilton. [To newbies: I needed to know some things but wish I hadn’t asked that question. I didn’t need the visuals. And every time I drive back to the town where we lived, I get a bit triggered when I see the Hilton.]
*Did you ever take that hiking trip? [Answer: No. He flew to be with her. “That was my biggest lie,” said the lying liar who lies.]
*Did you use protection? [His response? No, but she’s clean. 🤦🏻♀️ 😡]
But then I stopped. I just stopped asking. There was a self-protective part of me that knew that more information wouldn’t help me. Oh, and I found CL’s book right away, so that guided me as well. Thanks again, CL!
On D-Day and after this little interrogation that left me shaking, I took off my wedding ring, and left the house. After a week away, I demanded that he leave the house so I could live there. “It’s the least you can do, “I said. And in those guilt-ridden early days, he complied.
Here, I want to make another note for newbies: Try to get them to agree to stuff (preferably in writing) in the early days when they might feel some guilt.
Anyway, I made many mistakes in the early days, including probably oversharing (scratch that: including definitely oversharing), but I’m happy that I asked some questions to regain a sense of reality after having been kept in the dark for years, but then I (mostly) stopped.
.
I’m definitely guilty of a couple of these. I “needed” answers, and got them. Were they all truthful, I’m sure they weren’t. Target and Comfort Inn’s will never be the same for me. And I definitely overshared, especially in the begining
“No, but she’s clean.”
Mine said that too. As if hygiene has anything to do with it. He knew she was fucking other guys without protection, too.
I think they just don’t care if they catch anything. The ego fuel from cheating makes them feel invincible. It’s a sick delusion. They do not care about risking the chump’s health either. In other discussions about recovery from cheating, I have asked wreckonciling chumps that if not using protection isn’t proof the cheater doesn’t love you, what could possibly qualify as proof to them. That’s the point when they usually block me. 😄
This is the part that always amazes me – they don’t use protection. Not only against STDs but…..against pregnancy! It’s not only that they’re hurting Chumps – maybe even by CAUSING MISCARRIAGES which people underestimate as a side effect – but they hurt themselves and others by spreading VENEREAL DISEASES. It seems like a lot of magickal thinking goes into affairs. No one will ever catch me and I’ll never catch anything…..
“Try to get them to agree to stuff (preferably in writing) in the early days when they might feel some guilt.”
This is high level divorce martial arts right here. Use your opponents energy against them.
I think the most basic question that everyone has is: HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME – WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO ME? I think it’s kind of the summary of everything else.
Four years ago, I wailed this question to myself continually. I never asked the ex the question because I knew I would not get an honest answer, if I got an answer at all. What I’ve found helpful in therapy is to learn how to do what CL says: ‘stop untangling the skein’. For me, this question would be my trying to do just that. I’m learning, slowly, to stop twisting myself into a pretzel by seeking to understand why people do what they do. I can still empathise with a difficult situation but I don’t have to use my energy analysing how it came about. It’s much less exhausting for me.
Mehitable, your basic question of “HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME – WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO ME?” is the very rabbit hole we have all been down, many of us for years. The answer is THEY DON’T CARE and they never thought we would find out. They think they are entitled to anything they want, and their needs and comfort come before any of our wants or desires. My husband always spoke about “loyalty to family” and constantly told me he loved me. Reconciling myself to the idea that people don’t lie, have affairs and keep secret double lives from people they love was the hardest concept to accept. Regardless of what he said, he clearly felt no loyalty for me and love only for himself.
We now know the answer to that. It’s just hellishly hard to accept at first. Many chumps solve the cognitive dissonance by retreating into a fantasy world where somehow, good people who love you do things they know will hurt you terribly, because FOO or whatever other lame excuse. I understand that impulse, because facing the truth (that they are essentially worthless people who don’t love you and actually enjoy hurting you) is painful beyond comprehension.
I think a lot of Chumps regress into compartmentalization just like the FWs do during these traumas. If I ignore or repress this one bad thing, the rest of it is fine. After all, Hitler loved animals….except when he killed his dog at the very end.
I love this list. It demands that the chump’s well-being and needs be considered. So many of us are givers by heart, and FWs tend to be far too good at making us minimize ourselves even further. I know many of us are aware reconciliation is worthless, but when I asked similar questions to ex/FW back in the day, he got noticeably agitated. Knowing I made him uncomfortable by demanding that I be respected… at least he knew, in the end, I did have a backbone.
Edit: also, to any chumps still in the thick of it, who happen upon my comment: they will lie as easily as they breathe, so don’t trust any of it. Ask them through email or text, as well, to get it documented. And they will be upset with you for asking questions. This your big clue that they are NOT SORRY, nor do they respect you.
Sorry if I’m posting a lot but these are all questions I would have liked to ask but never got the chance (he just ran for the hills). Two things I would recommend if you do this:
The answers may or may not help you in a pragmatic sense but they will help you to realize what you real situation is here and what you’re married to. When you listen back in the future, it will help to confirm the situation to you and you’ll pick up on stuff, even things like tone, that you missed the first time. It may or may not be used as actual evidence for anything depending on the laws in your state, but it will be helpful to YOU in getting to the “right” place in your own mind. Hopefully of ending the farce.
I don’t believe in confrontations. Cheaters lie a lot so….
It’s hilarious watching the save your marriage crowd in action. Selling hopium.
You must have them do a timeline. Cheater lie, hide and deceive so they are gonna be truthful on a timeline 😂🤣
Just file and move one. Repeated infidelity is common so….
Another question to ask is”how young”? My FW’s “no big deal” porn addiction landed him in jail. That was only after our 12 year old daughter found his dick pics.
I’m guessing the same suggestion applies: Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.
Excellent article, however I really think “POST NUP CONTRACT” or agreement should be highlighted. Consider recording the conversation as well if there is a lag in document preparation. Not something I would have thought of, but Chumps should be thinking of striking an agreement while the guilt is making them feel like they should feign remorse. We all know they really do not feel it, but catch them off-guard before they show their true callous selves and start hiding marital assets and cutting off support.
Tracy, this is a fantastic post. The most profound point you make is that these questions are to serve not just for fact-finding purposes (however that part fares, considering that cheaters are already liars) but also, more decisively, as TRIGGERS you are administering to your cheater. These triggers induce your cheater to display, through his reaction, if he is at least part-mammal or instead 100% reptile, in which case you have nothing to work with. This is so important to know, especially for chumps who are relatively young and untried.
I’m a professional counselor and I’m shocked at how many in my profession still don’t get it. In fact, to say that infidelity is abuse can draw criticism that one is overstepping, not being objective, etc. I often direct hurting and confused chumps to this site and I hope this list of questions will save many more from the lies being peddled by the RIC.